highaltitude.log.20140518

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[00:05] <aadamson> wb8elk's are up on spacenear.us now
[00:06] <aadamson> or at least they were recently
[00:12] <Lunar_Lander> time for good night :)
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[06:16] <malgar> is b52 still alive? :\
[06:16] <malgar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/145084_trj001.gif
[06:17] <malgar> f5vnf should receive it now
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[06:56] <malgar> B52 ALIVE!
[07:02] <f5vnf_> sorry chaps cant get to grips with sdr, not enough knobs to twiddle and not enough time to sit , one very frustrated tracker, at least F6HTJ has got it
[07:05] <malgar> f5vnf_: ok :)
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[07:07] <malgar> now it should turn east very quickly
[07:08] <malgar> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/145603_trj001.gif
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[07:11] <F5OPR> Just a test. Thank you
[07:12] <F5OPR> OK it's working. :-)
[07:12] <F5OPR> Please could you send the B52 transmiting frequency ? Thank you
[07:12] <IN3AQK> b52 turnig east now
[07:12] <IN3AQK> 434500
[07:13] <F5OPR> IN3AQK Thank you very much.
[07:14] <IN3AQK> 73
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[08:06] <f5opv> hi everybody, can U tell me freq and mode of B52 balloon Pse
[08:06] <f5opv> Thank you
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[08:12] <malgar> LeoBodnar: so.. B52 die hard :)
[08:13] <LeoBodnar> heh
[08:13] <malgar> f5opv: 434500
[08:13] <malgar> LeoBodnar: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/145603_trj001.gif
[08:14] <LeoBodnar> looks very 90's
[08:14] <LeoBodnar> erm 80's
[08:14] <LeoBodnar> fingerslip
[08:14] <DL7AD> morning!
[08:14] <malgar> what?
[08:14] <malgar> ciao DL7AD
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[08:15] <DL7AD> hi malgar
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[08:18] <henryplumb> Morning all :)
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[08:30] <DL7AD> hi henryplumb
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[08:48] <LeoBodnar> well done f5opv
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[09:06] <henryplumb> daveake: amazing balloon burst pictures from yesterdays flights by the way! :)
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[10:03] <f5opv> quit
[10:03] <f5opv> exit
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[10:18] <gonzo_nb> announce: BONZO8 pico latex flight today ~1pm local time
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[10:19] <mfa298> what frequency ?
[10:20] <gonzo___> 434.650 7bit rtty
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[11:28] Nick change: RaptorJesus_ -> RaptorJesus
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[11:40] <Neil_M0CJM> Hi all
[11:41] <henryplumb_> Hiya
[11:42] <Neil_M0CJM> The 1pm from Poole going up still?
[11:43] <craag> Last heard he was prepping for launch :)
[11:44] <gonzo___> just about to fill
[11:45] <gonzo___> shift looking more like 280hz btw
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[11:51] <Neil_M0CJM> ok
[11:53] <malgar> noaa hysplit seems totally wrong
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[11:57] <LeoBodnar> indeed
[11:57] <gonzo___> ]bonzo8 failure
[11:58] <gonzo___> bottle valve must have leaked
[11:58] <gonzo___> not enough gas to even lift the balloon weight
[11:58] <chrisstubbs> not enough gas?
[11:58] <gonzo___> bummer
[11:58] <chrisstubbs> darn :(
[11:58] <mfa298> shame :(
[11:59] <gonzo___> yep. so close
[11:59] <chrisstubbs> I guess at least you can reuse the balloon
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[11:59] <gonzo___> yep. though 100gm are 10 / penny
[11:59] <chrisstubbs> I tend to get 2 of those disposable canisters at a time just in case
[12:00] <chrisstubbs> I guess thats what you were using?
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[12:01] <gonzo___> was a leftover big bottle
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[12:16] <Steve_G0TDJ> 'Afternoon HABbers - Sorry to read that gonzo___
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[12:18] <G8APZ> chrisstubs are you here?
[12:20] <G8APZ> chrisstubbs I meant!
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[12:20] <chrisstubbs> Hello
[12:20] <gonzo___> bit of a pain. but will fly again
[12:20] <Steve_G0TDJ> Good oh
[12:21] <chrisstubbs> Afternoon Steve
[12:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hi Chris
[12:21] <G8APZ> Hi, Any chance you can switch cheapo on to see if I can hear it? I'm on the ridge at Brentwood with x-50 on 60ft mast (only 40foot wound up )
[12:21] <SIbot> In real units: 60 ft = 18 m
[12:21] <Steve_G0TDJ> Are you just testing CHEAPO?
[12:22] <chrisstubbs> Sure G8APZ, but I doubt you will hear anything with it on the ground. Will you be around to tune on on Tuesday?
[12:23] <Steve_G0TDJ> You launching on Tues then Chris?
[12:23] <chrisstubbs> Yes only testing today Steve. Recent predictions are all dry though, shocking! Launching for a local school yes
[12:23] <G8APZ> chrisstubbs yes, I hope to be there Tuesday. My 24GHz beacon with 150mW reaches Danbury when it is switched on!
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[12:24] <Steve_G0TDJ> Cool. I hope to be about
[12:24] <chrisstubbs> heh okay let me give it a go
[12:25] <Steve_G0TDJ> I'lll have a listen too, what freq.?
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[12:27] <chrisstubbs> 434.290
[12:27] <chrisstubbs> slowly drifting down
[12:27] <chrisstubbs> 50b 7n2 450Hz shift
[12:27] <G8APZ> BIG SIGNAL!!!
[12:27] <LeoBodnar> wow
[12:27] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hi Leo, nothing here Chris
[12:28] <LeoBodnar> Hi Steve
[12:28] <chrisstubbs> Are you decoding G8APZ?
[12:29] <G8APZ> just trying to get tone sep correct!!
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[12:30] <G8APZ> yes now
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[12:30] <G8APZ> it's about 50/450
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[12:31] <chrisstubbs> blimey thats impressive
[12:31] <chrisstubbs> sitting outside the first floor window
[12:31] <chrisstubbs> let me go chuck it on the gound and really test you :P
[12:31] <G8APZ> Signal strong, now gone weak!!
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[12:32] <G8APZ> yes got 27
[12:32] <G8APZ> now 31
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[12:33] <G8APZ> packet nbrs that is ...still hear and see but poor decode
[12:33] <Steve_G0TDJ> More proof that I'm in a bad place for radio :-)
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[12:34] <G8APZ> I have another 20ft of mast I can wind up!! I could add a preamp, or put up a yagi too... plenty of room to improve!
[12:34] <SIbot> In real units: 20 ft = 6.10 m
[12:34] <G8APZ> still receiving, but no decode on RTTY
[12:35] <G8APZ> drift has settled down a bit... still tending to go LF
[12:36] <chrisstubbs> yeah its sitting out in the sun
[12:36] <G8APZ> antenna is a GP ? on the ground?
[12:37] <G8APZ> I'd decode that on a beam for sure!
[12:37] <chrisstubbs> just a 1/4 wave with 4 radials
[12:37] <G8APZ> OK
[12:37] <craag> G8APZ: tall mast = easily spotted on google streetview !
[12:37] <G8APZ> well it is working!! raelly? LOL
[12:37] <chrisstubbs> on a bench about 3ft off the ground
[12:37] <SIbot> In real units: 3 ft = 0.91 m
[12:38] <craag> Looks like a 70cm horizontal beam up, in may 2012?
[12:38] <chrisstubbs> 0ft
[12:38] <SIbot> In real units: 0 ft = 0.00 m
[12:38] <G8APZ> craag OK - hadnt realised... it's a Versatower P60
[12:38] <chrisstubbs> heh thanks SIbot, just checking
[12:38] <craag> lol chrisstubbs
[12:38] <DL7AD> rofl
[12:38] <DL7AD> good job SIbot
[12:39] <G8APZ> craag.... I have a 21 ele 70cm disused on end gable , and on the mast 2m 11ele, probably a 21 ele for 70cm....
[12:39] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hey Felix :D
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[12:41] <G8APZ> Versatower P60 (in real units P17 LOL)
[12:41] <craag> Cool, certainly seems to have some range!
[12:41] <G8APZ> chrisstubbs I'll be happy to do reception test before launch on Tuesday...
[12:42] <chrisstubbs> cool cheers :)
[12:42] <chrisstubbs> I will be on here when we are setting up :)
[12:42] <G8APZ> craag I've worked over 1000km on 10GHz from that mast!!
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[12:42] <G8APZ> still hearing it, but no decode obviously!
[12:44] <G8APZ> almost decoding ....
[12:45] <G8APZ> not quite 100%
[12:45] <Steve_G0TDJ> Off to write a blog entry - BBL
[12:46] <G4MYS-Andy> BONZO8 are we likely toget a flight today if so do we know when? Andy
[12:47] <G8APZ> By Steve
[12:48] <chrisstubbs> G4MYS-Andy, gonzo___ ran out of helium :(
[12:48] <chrisstubbs> so thats a no
[12:48] <G4MYS-Andy> Chrissstubbs shame! but many thanks for the info
[12:48] <rob_m0dts_> shame, was on track for a fly-by !
[12:48] <G8APZ> chrisstubbs Thanks for the test. Very interesting that I receive when on ground despite no decode! I'm still seeing the sig though.
[12:49] <gonzo___> valve leak i recon, most annoying
[12:49] <G4MYS-Andy> and no other flights today?
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[12:50] <G8APZ> gonzo___ sorry to hear that.... weigh and empty bottle, and then a full one... then you can draw a graph to determine how full
[12:50] <G8APZ> and = an
[12:50] <G4MYS-Andy> Gonzo best to know now rather thwen later I guess sorry mate! Regards Andy
[12:51] <chrisstubbs> oh arse I replaced my wireless mouse driver instead of the sdr driver with zadig
[12:51] <gonzo___> that won't work with compressed gasses, only liquified gasses
[12:51] <G8APZ> chrisstubbs partials only at present
[12:51] <chrisstubbs> going to blame windows 8 for that
[12:52] <gonzo___> for compressed, o have to put a gauge on and look at the pressure
[12:52] <G8APZ> OK
[12:52] <gonzo___> no probs, the balloon and tracker are in stock for next time
[12:53] <craag> gonzo___: Why only liquified?
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[12:55] <G8APZ> craag Street view shows old defunct scaffold pole mast on end gable .. the P60 isn't visible in wound down position
[12:55] <gonzo___> I expext there wuld be some increase in mass for compressed gasses, but compared to the weight of metal in the bottle required to hold it, then I exppect it would be difficult to measure
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[12:55] <gonzo___> but the pressure is easy to measure
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[12:56] <henryplumb_> chrisstubbs: any idea what time you'll be launching on Tuesday as I'll be in Colchester :)
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[12:56] <craag> G8APZ: Yeah I guessed that
[12:56] <gonzo___> for liquified gasses (or solid, like CO2) then the pressure is relatesd to pressue, not quantity
[12:56] <chrisstubbs> about 1:30/2PM
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[12:56] <gonzo___> you can weigh the contents, but you have to know the bottle weight first
[12:56] <craag> gonzo___: You can definitely tell the weight between an empty and full disposable cylinder just by hand.
[12:57] <henryplumb_> chrisstubbs: great - I'll see what kind of signal I get in Colchester with the handheld :)
[12:57] <G8APZ> chrisstubbs will it be a float or an up/down?
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[12:57] <chrisstubbs> up/down on a 100g
[12:58] <gonzo___> would be interesting to doa controled test on that
[12:58] <G8APZ> OK thanks. I'll stop listening to CHEAPO now...!.
[12:58] <craag> gonzo___: Of course you wouldn't know without a reference, but I'm sure you could get accurate remaining capacity by weighing it (now you have an empty one to compare against!)
[12:58] <craag> Is it a .33 BOC disposable?
[12:58] <gonzo___> but the one time He bottles are only at about 15bar. The big bottles are at 250-300, whoch needs a lot of metal to hold it in
[12:58] <craag> Ah it's a big bottle
[12:59] <craag> sorry
[12:59] <craag> Yeah, that's going to be bit more difficult to weigh :P
[12:59] <gonzo___> years ago I brought some bathroom scaled to weigh 47kg propane bottles. Rolled the bottle on and it just bent it double. Dead
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[13:00] <craag> hehe, they're designed for use with weight-spreaders, ie feet
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[13:06] <chrisstubbs> anyone using dl-fldigi on windows 8?
[13:07] <f5opv> B52 balloon leaving France to Spain
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[13:07] <chrisstubbs> WARNING! Caught wuntime_error: habitat::UnmergeableError
[13:07] <chrisstubbs> *runtime
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[13:10] <chrisstubbs> dw "Run as administrator" fixed it
[13:10] <craag> if it doesn't work - run it as root = yay!
[13:11] <Upu> because software developers are lazy
[13:11] <Upu> its not like those security enhancements haven't been around for 10 years
[13:11] <chrisstubbs> That was the last thing I was going to try before getting the windows 7 install disk :P
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[13:17] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: dl-fldigi works fine for me on win8 with no extra permissions.
[13:17] <chrisstubbs> I seem to remember it working before too, strange OS
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[13:46] <henryplumb_> Anybody got any suggestions as to where to get a magnet BNC antenna base - got the antenna, just want the base with connector on :)
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[13:49] <henryplumb_> ???
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[13:51] <aadamson> henryplumb_, did you try amazon, ebay, ham radio stores, etc.... it should be pretty easy to find - mag mount bnc in any search engine should be your friend
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[13:51] <henryplumb_> Tried that and I get lots of US stores :/
[13:53] <henryplumb_> Like this but UK - http://www.walcottcb.com/magnet-antenna-mount-with-bnc-connector-p-2462.html
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[13:55] <rob_m0dts_> could use an SO-239 magnetic base with female BNC/PL259 adaptor but not ideal, otherwise i don't think they are common
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[13:58] <henryplumb_> rob_m0dts_: Like this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Magnetic-Antenna-Mount-7-Turbo-Mag-Mount-SO239-Fitting-BNC-Plug-Trucks-Taxi-/281266760924?_trksid=p2054897.l4275
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[14:02] <mfa298> henryplumb_: that sort of thing should work although I'm not sure how much I'd trust a bnc connector when chasing
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[14:03] <henryplumb_> mfa298: Yeah - my chase/car radio (MVT-7100) is BNC and just thought might as well use that as I already have the antennas etc.
[14:04] <craag> I'd just get an all in one 70cm 5/8
[14:04] <mfa298> was that planning to use the telescopic antenna that came with the mvt-7100 as well ?
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[14:04] <henryplumb_> mfa298 I've got a 433/434 bnc whip
[14:04] <thijsjek> hey
[14:04] <craag> I wouldn't trust a BNC connector to hold something on the roof on the motorway either.
[14:05] <mfa298> you're probably better off getting something like http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456?in_merch=Products%20From%20This%20Range
[14:06] <mfa298> that also means the whip is ready so you just have to disconnect the connector to the mvt and plug in the whip rather than having to take the whip off the car as well.
[14:06] <thijsjek> has someone here some experience with dvb-t tuner on a computer using it with dl-fldigi?
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[14:07] <mfa298> and if/when you upgrade to a different radio you've got a setup that can stay with the car and one that's easily transportable (and also gives a complete backup)
[14:08] <mfa298> thijsjek: lots of us have used the dvb-t tuners with dl-fldigi
[14:08] <mfa298> thijsjek: if you need basic guidance try http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker otherwise ask some questions.
[14:08] <henryplumb_> Yeah, I suppose. You had any experience with the very cheap chinese 433/434mhz mag mounts. Like: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3db-Antenna-433Mhz-SMA-Plug-with-Magnetic-base-Ham-radi-/300545483946?pt=UK_Computing_Boosters_Extenders_Antennas&hash=item45f9e824aa
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[14:09] <thijsjek> i've got a dongle and if i use sdrsharp, i can listen to radio and i receive my own project. but in dl-fldigi i can't see the dongle as a soundcard
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[14:10] <henryplumb_> mfa298 ^^^
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[14:13] <mfa298> henryplumb_: I'd probably stick with the watson, known company and bought from a reputable company in the UK. Although I'd probably also use it to transmit and also on 2m so I might care a bit more about quality.
[14:13] <thijsjek> i missed the virtual audio cable part, thanks mfa298
[14:14] <henryplumb_> mfa298: I don't transmit so that doesn't bother me as much
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[14:15] <henryplumb_> mfa298: Or something like this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VHF-UHF-138-470Mhz-High-Band-TAXI-PMR-Radio-Mag-Mount-Antenna-4m-Feeder-PL259-Tu-/281284952013?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones_Communication_Radio_Antennas&hash=item417de3bfcd
[14:15] <henryplumb_> Cut to appropriate length of course
[14:17] <mfa298> annoyingly I can't see quickly what coax the wsm-270 uses. if it's rg58 it's going to get more signal to the radio than the cheap chinese radio if it's rg174 it's about the same (although I think the wsm-270 has more gain which helps in some cases and hinders in others)
[14:18] <henryplumb_> What about that one ^^^
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[14:18] <mfa298> for the sake of £3 I'd get the wsm-270 over the taxi antenna
[14:18] <henryplumb_> What connector does the Watson use?
[14:19] <mfa298> ok it's more like £7 but still I'd probably get the wsm-270 (I forget cpc show exVAT normally)
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[14:19] <mfa298> from other sites I think it's bnc
[14:19] <mfa298> although you can get adapters from other for a couple of quid
[14:19] <henryplumb_> That would be good - cheers for your help. I think I'll order the Watson when I have some money :)
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[14:21] <mfa298> I think there's a few people here that use them (I've got something similar but from a different company)
[14:21] <henryplumb_> Would it need trimming or is it set to 433/43?
[14:21] <henryplumb_> * 434
[14:22] <mfa298> the wsm-270 is designed to work on the 2m and 70cm bands with nothing needing to be done.
[14:22] <mfa298> just put it on the car roof and go
[14:23] <malgar> I'm surprised about B52 forecasts completely wrong
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[14:24] <henryplumb_> mfa298 cheers for your help - much appreciated :)
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[14:27] <mfa298> no problem. you're welcome to try the cheaper options if you want but personally I'd only go that route if I'm willing to take a gamble that it might not work (and for the chinese option will take a while to arrive)
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[16:37] <neevnav> Today stumbled upon Daddy' s shoes only worn few days because of snowless winter decayed. The sole is hard and broken.
[16:37] <neevnav> This reminds me of looking for devices in boxes like my CRT TV set, hair dryer, hard disks ... I am afraid of capacitors which run dry, so plug it into the socket to extend their life.
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[17:32] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: Radio Amateurs Balloon Flight and Pocket Spacecraft on BBC TV http://t.co/5azxRrBwpf #amsat #hamradio #hamr #hab #ukhas
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[17:44] <N2NXZ> Any confirmation on the WB8ELK balloons?
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[18:36] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:37] <chrisstubbs> howdy Lunar_Lander
[18:37] <mclane_> hi
[18:38] <mclane_> plans for a flight, Lunar_Lander?
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> ah yea lots of plans, little time for preperation and malfunctioning tech
[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> and with you?
[18:39] <mclane_> next one is planned on May 29
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[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> PYSY-8?
[18:48] <mclane_> No, PYSY-9
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[18:50] <Lunar_Lander> what will be onboard?
[18:52] <mclane_> raspi with camera, sensor cluster (thermo-,baro-, accelero- and magnetometer)
[18:52] <mclane_> will transmit ssdv pictures
[18:52] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> I am just looking at the "getting started with STM32" page of mikrocontroller.net
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> just to see what it isd
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> -d
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[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> thinking if it is a good idea to upgrade to ARM one day
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[19:57] <aadamson> N2NXZ, jim anything on the radio?
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[20:05] <aadamson> anyone know of map site online where I can draw a polygon and it then give me the lat/lon coords for some more geofences that I'd like to create?
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[20:09] <mikestir> could you draw it in google earth and then export to kml and read it out of that?
[20:10] <cnelson_> just a few lines of JS to do that with the gmaps api
[20:12] <aadamson> oh you guys think I can do JS - not...
[20:12] <Upu> http://www.birdtheme.org/useful/v3tool.html
[20:12] <aadamson> mikestir, I'm gonna try that...
[20:12] <aadamson> Upu, to the rescue! (as always - and big thanks again!)
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> can anybody comment on the statement I gave above about ARM?
[20:13] <aadamson> nope :)
[20:13] <aadamson> to each their own is the comment I think :)
[20:14] <aadamson> on a more serious note, an ARM is much more capable, but also much more complex
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[20:14] <aadamson> and for some much harder to learn
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> I can imagine
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> I still have my TI Stellaris Launchpad I bought in 2012
[20:14] <Lunar_Lander> never took it from the package
[20:14] <aadamson> but it's not that hard once you mess with them for a while
[20:15] <aadamson> there are lots of starting point stuff online, depends on tools you use etc.
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:15] <aadamson> Hey mikestir did you see the new M0+ arduino
[20:15] <aadamson> mikestir, - http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardZero
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> WOW there is a USB cable
[20:16] <Lunar_Lander> I never saw that they packaged one with the launchpad
[20:17] <mikestir> aadamson: I saw mention of it..
[20:17] <aadamson> saw that and thought of you :)...
[20:17] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: the old (ex luminary micro) stellaris devices aren't that great
[20:17] <aadamson> was that the atmel part you mentioned the other day
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[20:18] <mikestir> no. the one I mentioned was a cortex A5 application processor
[20:19] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: the low end ARMs aren't really that complicated. The main issue is having to do the custom startup code and configure things like PLLs and clock trees, but a lot of the time the vendor will give you code for that
[20:19] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> this seems to be different to the 8-bit AVR
[20:20] <aadamson> yeah, STM gives you an excel spreadsheet that will generate a .c file with all of that all done for you
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[20:20] <mikestir> well the avr doesn't have a PLL to worry about, so the clock config is trivial
[20:20] <mikestir> and they did the C startup for you
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:21] <aadamson> nor does it have freaking clocks for *everything* :)
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> read about that earlier
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> that there seems to be a big number of onboard timer
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> +s
[20:21] <mikestir> two things I would suggest - find CMSIS compliant headers for whatever device you go for, and don't use the vendor's peripheral library
[20:22] <aadamson> hehe... and I would say just the opposite :)
[20:22] <aadamson> I like the stm std periph lib
[20:22] <mikestir> yeah it's not a bad example (the code quality of the freescale one is embarrassing), but my reasons for both of those recommendations are simply portability
[20:23] <aadamson> yeah, I'll give ya that
[20:23] <mikestir> and it gets you closer to the hardware, which can aid understanding
[20:23] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: all cortex micros have a systick timer which is part of the ARM core, so you use that as your system ticker and that code will run on any cortex from any vendor
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:24] <mikestir> the other timers are vendor specific
[20:24] <Lunar_Lander> so a TI ARM has some other things in the chip than an ST ARM for example?
[20:25] <mikestir> yes, including memory map, so even things like your linker script will be different
[20:25] <mikestir> but the instruction sets are the same, they will both have the systick timer, and they both have the same interrupt controller (although with different peripherals connected to it)
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[20:25] <aadamson> Upu, what's the trick with geofencing... how fine or course do you try to get the polygon? Say the US for example? I mean I could have hundreds of points, or 20, which is better?
[20:26] <mikestir> some (M3 and M4) have a memory protection unit which you can use to trap things like null pointer dereferenceing
[20:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:26] <LeoBodnar> hundreds are better
[20:26] <Upu> depends how much memory you have and how accurate it needs to be
[20:26] <Upu> more = more accurate at the expensve of memory
[20:26] <LeoBodnar> it will impress people
[20:27] <aadamson> somehow I doubt my approach to all of this will do that... lol
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> depend *what you want tod altogether*
[20:27] <Lunar_Lander> so that master timer runs from the quartz?
[20:27] <aadamson> what I really want to do is know when I'm over *nothing*
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> what's your big plan aadamson ?
[20:27] <aadamson> that's harder than you'd think :)
[20:27] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: no - it runs from the core clock, which usually comes from a vendor-specific clock mux of some sort
[20:28] <LeoBodnar> i.e. do you want to take snap of "nearspace", go around the world, or what?
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah OK
[20:28] <mikestir> that's why you can't have a totally generic startup even though the cores are the same
[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:28] <aadamson> big plan... I don't really have one.... But I would like to see if I can get a balloon from here to you :)
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[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> not like the AVR which just has the quartz on XTAL1 and 2
[20:28] <Upu> thats easy aadamson and doesn't need geofencing
[20:28] <Upu> if longitude > -52 && < -10 = nothing
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> you can get a balloon over heare with 555 and CR2032 on it
[20:29] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, what fun would that be :)
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> a lot
[20:30] <aadamson> I'm just learning as I go.. and I could never do a 555 with cr2032, that would take too much analog circuitry and I suck at anything analog
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[20:32] <mikestir> fully populated tracker board: http://www.mike-stirling.com/files/DSC_2396.JPG
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> thanks mikestir and aadamson for the details about the ARM
[20:33] <aadamson> 0402 stuff mikestir ?
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> maybe a thing to look at in the future
[20:33] <mikestir> aadamson: yes
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> looks cool!
[20:34] <aadamson> wow, you are a glutton for punishment... I thought about 0402, but 0603 is as small as my eyes can deal with... look nice however!
[20:34] <aadamson> good job
[20:34] <Upu> looks good mikestir do you need some smaller end launch SMA's ? :)
[20:34] <Lunar_Lander> what is the bluish device next to the SMA?
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> inductor?
[20:35] <Upu> inductor
[20:35] <aadamson> yeah
[20:35] <Upu> 220nH at a rough guess
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:35] <mikestir> Upu: it's designed for the small ones, but I won't be fitting them normally
[20:35] <aadamson> the low pass filter for the radio
[20:35] <mikestir> I only put that one on so I could measure the output properly
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> the radio is the black IC?
[20:35] <Upu> is the Cn3/4 header meant to snap off ?
[20:35] <cnelson_> got distracted, but if someone needs a poly drawing tool still with latlng: http://jsfiddle.net/zCe4S/1/
[20:35] <aadamson> hehe, which black ic :)
[20:36] <aadamson> anthony saved me...
[20:36] <mikestir> Upu: yes - I wasn't sure how best to do the snap off though so it might need to be nicked with a hacksaw
[20:36] <aadamson> simple formula for *nothing* which was all I was really after
[20:36] <Upu> just lots of drills would do it
[20:36] <Lunar_Lander> and what is the CPU?
[20:36] <aadamson> Lunar_Lander, the left back chip is the radio, the middle one is the ARM
[20:37] <mikestir> Upu: I'll probably do that for the next batch - I didn't want to do anything too fancy because it was going to iteadstudio
[20:37] <mikestir> but they made a decent job of it
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> oh cool
[20:37] <Upu> yeah looks good
[20:37] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: Freescale Kinetis KL05
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> so this is still another chip
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> so to speak
[20:37] <aadamson> mike you need to share with anthony how to do the mfsk without the clicks if you haven't
[20:37] <Lunar_Lander> they all have the ARM core and then other things as periphery
[20:38] <mclane_> mikestir: what is the radio chip?
[20:38] <aadamson> si4060
[20:38] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: yes this is Cortex M0+, 32KB flash, 4KB RAM. It's broadly similar to the ATMEGA328 in terms of peripherals
[20:38] <mikestir> mclane_: Si4060
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[20:39] <mikestir> I haven't used a tcxo - but it's a 10ppm xtal, so we'll see how that goes
[20:39] <mikestir> I'm going to experiment with calibrating against the GPS prior to transmitting
[20:39] <aadamson> ah, thats why the 1hz pin is used on the gps?
[20:39] <mikestir> yes
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> sorry for another strange question
[20:40] <aadamson> didn't think there were any of those
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> with using ARM, one can then do things that 8-bit AVRs cannot, i.e. things that need more computing power and so on?
[20:40] <aadamson> well...
[20:40] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. the famous question "Can I attach a camera to my arduino?" could be solved by using ARM
[20:40] <aadamson> this application really doesn't need any horsepower
[20:41] <aadamson> Upu, proved that running an AVR at 2mhz
[20:41] <aadamson> but the arm has nice things that can run in the background. DMA, IRQ, ADC, etc
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[20:41] <aadamson> all can be hooked up and run in the background
[20:41] Nick change: gurgalof_ -> gurgalof
[20:41] <aadamson> and in some cases up to 10 or more hi-res timers
[20:41] <Lunar_Lander> I recall my first attempt at making a complete balloon code
[20:42] <aadamson> oh, that background thing extends to uarts, i2c, spi, etc
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> ublox MAX-6Q, DS18B20, BMP085, RTTY, HIH-4030
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> I recall that the program just stalled after three strings sent out
[20:42] <Lunar_Lander> that was obviously an error I had made
[20:42] <mclane_> I have flown an ARM last year NXP LPC 1227
[20:42] <LeoBodnar> 2MHz? this is about 10 times faster than needed
[20:43] <mikestir> aadamson: I tested writing to that fine tune register at high rates last night
[20:43] <mclane_> on PYSY 6
[20:43] <mikestir> it's fast enough to do AFSK but only if you modulate it as a square wave
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:43] <mikestir> go any faster and the tx just shuts down
[20:43] <aadamson> yeah that probably makes sense
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> I mean what I would like to have is some improvement over "simple" arduino coding
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> stuff like JTAG with "seeing what the micro is doing at the moment" sounds really good
[20:44] <mikestir> it would probably be better to put it in 4FSK mode and do some sort of stepped sine using the fifos
[20:44] <aadamson> yeah, but that makes my head hurt :)
[20:44] <mclane_> you can run a "serious" IDE, and "real" debuggers with breakpoints, memory inspection and so on
[20:44] <mclane_> quite usefull!
[20:44] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[20:44] <aadamson> Hey speaking of which mikestir that jlink working out?
[20:45] <mikestir> yes it's great
[20:45] <mikestir> spotted a bug in my linker script that was causing BSS to remain uncleared
[20:45] <aadamson> Sats:6 AZ:213.07 EL: -23.86 RX: 145823687 TX: 145826313 Sat Lat: -14.10 Sat Lon: -111.20 RR: 2.70
[20:45] <aadamson> Sats:6 AZ:212.99 EL: -23.88 RX: 145823685 TX: 145826315 Sat Lat: -14.15 Sat Lon: -111.15 RR: 2.70
[20:45] <aadamson> I decided to see if I could generate *live* sat data
[20:46] <mclane_> why did you choose the FSL component, mikestir?
[20:46] <aadamson> along with doppler :)
[20:46] <mikestir> mclane_: just wanted to use it on something
[20:46] <aadamson> thats where the ISS is from me at the moment
[20:46] <mikestir> it had the right mix of peripherals and it's incredibly cheap
[20:47] <aadamson> mikestir, did you decide the output would work at 2v?
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> I think my experience is still quite limited
[20:47] <aadamson> ok for what you wanted to do
[20:47] <mikestir> I haven't tried reducing the voltage yet. I don't think it will do 10dBm below about 2.5V
[20:47] <aadamson> hmm... ok, I"m going to build a 4060 board this week... I guess we'll see
[20:48] <aadamson> 10db on the 446x is too much current for my liking
[20:48] <aadamson> 25mA in TX
[20:48] <aadamson> that's the 446x at 2.0v set for 10db output
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[20:48] <aadamson> to the e type match
[20:48] <mikestir> with wirewound inductors?
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> I just wanted to make the ultimate HAB somehow xD
[20:48] <aadamson> yes
[20:48] <mclane_> is there a breakout board for the SiLab chips for prototyping?
[20:48] <mikestir> sounds about right
[20:49] <aadamson> mikestir, - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/DSCN2443.JPG
[20:49] <aadamson> mclane_, there is but it's really expensive
[20:49] <aadamson> just as easy to do your own, they aren't that hard to deal with
[20:49] <mikestir> mclane_: this maybe? http://www.dorji.com/pro/wireless-module/si4463_Module.html
[20:50] <aadamson> ah, yeah I forget about those
[20:50] <mclane_> I am not sure if I would be able to solder the QFN packages
[20:50] <aadamson> hot air is your friend
[20:51] <aadamson> or just do like some of us and get a mylar stencil and a toaster oven
[20:51] <mikestir> mclane_: I hand soldered that. I left a 2 mm via under the chip and soldered the ground pad from the underside
[20:51] <aadamson> that link above that I just posted of my board was built that way
[20:52] <mikestir> it's not really any harder than hand soldering a 0.5mm pitch QFP
[20:53] <aadamson> btw, where you can, it's better (and I just noticed that I didn't do this on the main lead of my radio :))... to put vias to pads on the other side where you might solder a wire or other thing that could lift the pad
[20:53] <aadamson> qfp's are easy with *LOTS* of flux :)
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:54] <mikestir> aadamson: you shouldn't via your rf tracks, but it's a fair point for power, etc.
[20:55] <aadamson> yeah I only via'd my grounds, maybe that's what I was thinking
[20:55] <aadamson> but I did do my powers!
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[20:58] <aadamson> I have talked myself into spinning my board (well it needed it anyway as I missed to traces), but also adding a 32.678khz crystal for RTC... I wonder if I can find one in 0603
[20:58] <aadamson> nope, oh, well, have to make some room
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> so you are respinning without even launching it?
[20:59] <aadamson> heck now
[20:59] <aadamson> heck no
[20:59] <aadamson> I blue wired the trace problem
[20:59] <adamgreig> hot air eh aadamson
[20:59] <aadamson> and I'll most likely even launch one without tcxo just to see how bad it is
[21:00] <aadamson> adamgreig, yeah as in hot air rework, use solder paste and hot air
[21:00] <LeoBodnar> people have been launching XO based trackers for many years here
[21:00] <LeoBodnar> *successfully
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> as I just read, getting started with a 32-bit chip is not good anyway when one doesn't have enough experience with 8-bit devices
[21:00] <aadamson> I did 3 prototype board, LeoBodnar, with oshpark, one is built and has been my dev board, one I'm going to mod for a tcxo,
[21:01] <LeoBodnar> Lunar_Lander: why did you skip 160bits?
[21:01] <LeoBodnar> oh 16 bits
[21:01] <aadamson> yeah, I know, I suspect it will work ok
[21:02] <aadamson> in fact, I'm just waiting on balloons at the moment... seems 30 in foils are not stocked anywhere around these parts - rounds that is
[21:02] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, is B-52 another custom envelope?
[21:02] <mikestir> aadamson: I found I tiny 32.768kHz crystal the other day for something at work. Let me see if I can get the part number
[21:02] <mikestir> I think it was a seiko epson part
[21:03] <aadamson> mikestir, I can find 2-smd's that are pretty small, still need 2 caps too
[21:03] <mikestir> 0201
[21:03] <aadamson> but I'm now using the IWDG and the RTC both of which can use a more accurate clock base
[21:03] <aadamson> 0201... um a little larger please :)
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[21:05] <aadamson> I have no idea who M0NCZ is, but he contacted me a few weeks about about connecting my repeaters to his via allstar... - http://www.highrf.com/allmon/link.php?node=28656
[21:05] <mikestir> oh it's not that small - I was thinking of the other crystal. Abracon ABS07, 3.2x1.5mm
[21:06] <aadamson> not sure which of you are hams and where his repeater(s) are, but atlanta and he are connected live :) (course I seem to never get on the radio much anymore)
[21:06] <aadamson> mikestir, ah, yea, I've seen that one, I found a 2x1.6mm one as well somewhere
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, hmm
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> good question
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[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> earlier I came on to ask people what they think about advancing to ARM
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> so I didn't really think about 16-bit
[21:07] <mikestir> msp430 it is then :)
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[21:08] <aadamson> hehe... a tweener... 16bit between 8bit and 32bit :)
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[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> *scratches head*
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> seems to be not easy
[21:09] <aadamson> it's really about peripherals moreso that performance for this application - imho (and remember I've *never* launched anything - yet)
[21:10] <aadamson> and even with that said, this really isn't a peripheral demanding appication, they just make it easier
[21:10] <aadamson> depending on how they are implemented
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> I think Atmega will still be OK for me
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> our programs still fit into the flash memory xD
[21:12] <mikestir> build yourself something out of a 68000
[21:12] <aadamson> hehe
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:12] <aadamson> ah come on 56001 would be more fun
[21:12] <mikestir> the 64 pin dil one
[21:15] <mikestir> http://www.retro.co.za/68000/CPU.jpg
[21:16] <mikestir> it's not pico
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> wut? 68000 is "retro"?
[21:16] <aadamson> hehe ^
[21:17] <mikestir> what was that fairchild one with the separate ALU chip? that's retro
[21:17] <mikestir> f8
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> what F8?
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> ah
[21:18] <aadamson> well, yea or an altair, or pdp8 or pdp11, or better 6502 :)
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> yes F8
[21:18] <mikestir> 6502 is a nice processor
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> it has HW division, doesn't it?
[21:20] <aadamson> lets see my first programming class was on the Apple II+, then I graduated to the pdp11 running pascal, then the next level... no kidding cobol on punch cards... WTF... :)
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> it's OK
[21:20] <aadamson> I can't remeber if the 6502 did or not, but I think there was a variant that did
[21:21] <LeoBodnar> I have used COBOL as recent as 2007
[21:21] <aadamson> yeah that's right you need the 6510 to go along with the 6502
[21:21] <aadamson> one of the apples had that if I remember right
[21:21] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, but probably not on punch cards...
[21:22] <aadamson> I think it still powers the bulk of the financial software in the world actually
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[21:23] <mikestir> I heard recently that one of the major UK banks' mainframe software still works in pre-decimal currency, and has a little shim layer they added to make it do real numbers
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[21:23] <aadamson> it wouldn't surprise me at all... I have a friend who makes a *TON* of money a year being a cobol consultant
[21:23] <mikestir> so it may very well still be on punched cards
[21:24] <aadamson> yeah, that's true!
[21:24] <aadamson> I remember I got hooked on seeing my first punched paper tape loader :)
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> on VSE
[21:25] <aadamson> but then again, there was aways the... oh what was it called... programs on cassette tape.. commodore something?
[21:25] <aadamson> what an all in one with bw display
[21:25] <aadamson> not the 64
[21:25] <aadamson> before that
[21:25] <mikestir> pet
[21:25] <aadamson> was that the Radio shack thing too?
[21:25] <mikestir> wasn't that the trs80?
[21:26] <aadamson> no I'm thinking the first portable
[21:26] <mikestir> the all in one commodore was the pet
[21:26] <mikestir> or they did a horrible portable version of the c64
[21:26] <aadamson> yet that one was the pet
[21:26] <mikestir> well, luggable
[21:26] <aadamson> the RS think was a multi line LCD with keyboard
[21:26] <aadamson> about 12x10 (inches)
[21:26] <aadamson> or so
[21:27] <aadamson> trs100
[21:27] <aadamson> 80/100
[21:28] <aadamson> looks like 1976 *was* the start of the growth years :) - http://oldcomputers.net/
[21:29] <mikestir> that's the portable c64 there, bottom right
[21:31] <aadamson> I remember the *grid* was the thing to have when I was in college... but alas I didn't have one
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[21:32] <aadamson> I forget was it the shuttle or the ISS that still has them
[21:32] <aadamson> shuttle
[21:36] <amell> Oh gosh. I had a c pet 2001.
[21:37] <amell> http://oldcomputers.net/pet2001.html
[21:38] Action: amell recalls peek and poke fondly.
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[21:41] <LeoBodnar> i once had AS/400 in my living room
[21:42] <amell> AS/400 can be small& and it can be very large :)
[21:42] <aadamson> the *big* one or the *little* one :)
[21:42] <aadamson> yeah wasn't there one that was *tower* sized?
[21:42] <LeoBodnar> *the original one*
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[21:42] <aadamson> ah, not that would be the *big* one
[21:42] <LeoBodnar> before they changed CPUs
[21:43] <LeoBodnar> it needed two people to move
[21:43] <aadamson> hmm, what was the HP of the same era?
[21:43] <LeoBodnar> and took full day to load OS from tapes
[21:44] <mikestir> R tape loading error
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> QIC tapes, don't faint
[21:44] <amell> I had to shift a PDP-11 in my car boot once. Im just trying to work out what model it was.
[21:45] <LeoBodnar> it's sad that these things were not hackable
[21:46] <amell> oh PDP-11 was hackable - Thats why we have Unix, and hence Linux :)
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> the whole file system is actually a database
[21:46] <amell> Yes, RMS
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> transactional
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> with rollbacks etc
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> you can't just pull out the HDD and mess with sector contents
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> also sectors were not 2^N long
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> some custom IBM SCSI hard drives
[21:47] <amell> I was coding RMS FDL only 2 years ago.
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> so when they are gone they are gone
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[21:48] <amell> Albeit in OpenVMS 11.7
[21:48] <LeoBodnar> and then infamous HAL
[21:48] <LeoBodnar> so even BIOS level is actually a bytocode interpreter
[21:48] <amell> Are you thinking of the RL01/RL02?
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> even OS does not know which CPU it is running on
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> i think so
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> i got desperate to use it
[21:49] <LeoBodnar> but i lost the restore passwords
[21:50] <amell> http://fafner.dyndns.org/~heuberger/DE0RL/README33.pdf - this guy has too much time on his hands :(
[21:50] <LeoBodnar> and IBM wouldn't help restore the system
[21:51] <amell> I cant believe he spent 2 years on emulating RL drives in FPGA :(
[21:51] <amell> what a waste.
[21:52] <LeoBodnar> so me lovely AS/400 went to a tip
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[21:55] <mikestir> quite a write up. I like the big bold "Note : Grounding is very very importand"
[21:55] <mikestir> someone should post that on the picaxe forum
[21:58] <SpeedEvil> Grounding is especially problematic on balloons.
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> and nuclear submarines
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[22:23] <Will> Hello. Is anyone here?
[22:24] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p54889F03.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) got lost in the net-split.
[22:24] <craag> nope
[22:24] <craag> :)
[22:24] <amell> no
[22:25] <malgar> here where?
[22:26] <Will> oh, on the forum!
[22:28] <Will> I am planning on doing a launch on Friday and my last one was in September of last year (craag - you helped me, thanks) Dusted off my tracker but struggling to get a fix with SDR# and dl-flgigi. Was wondering f anyone knew of any turorials?
[22:28] <Will> I am planning on doing a launch on Friday and my last one was in September of last year (craag - you helped me, thanks) Dusted off my tracker but struggling to get a fix with SDR# and dl-flgigi. Was wondering if anyone knew of any tutorials?
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[22:29] <craag> Will: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker
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[22:31] <Will> <craag> Thanks. Will have another go tomorrow
[22:32] <malgar> I'm planning an hot wire cut down system. How can I get hot just the section of the wire around the cord and not the insulated sections going up to the cord?
[22:32] <malgar> is enugh to use different diameters?
[22:32] <malgar> enough
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[22:33] <malgar> tiny for the hot section and bigger for the others?
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[22:34] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[22:35] <craag> malgar: Use normal wire up to the cord, then nichrome for the hot piece.
[22:35] <craag> Or a low value resistor, depending on how you're attaching it.
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[22:38] <malgar> I didn't know nichrome
[22:39] <malgar> what changes if I use a tiny copper wire?
[22:39] <malgar> without insulation
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[22:39] <craag> You'll need a lot more current
[22:40] <craag> And so very thick wire up to it.
[22:40] <craag> And more batteries
[22:40] <craag> Not a good idea really.
[22:41] <Lunar_LanderA> good night!
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[22:44] <amell> Im never sure if the nichrome wire is going to be hot enough&
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[22:58] <fsphil> easy to test
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[22:59] <amell> not at x k feet
[23:00] <fsphil> won't make much difference
[23:00] <fsphil> the air is colder, but there is a lot less of it
[23:01] <amell> do you wrap the nichrome round the filament?
[23:02] <fsphil> around the cord?
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[23:14] <amell> i didnt think nichrome would be able to melt through the cord
[23:14] <amell> i was thinking fishing line filament
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[00:00] --- Mon May 19 2014