highaltitude.log.20140511

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[01:11] <esculca> hi everyone
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[01:12] <esculca> is anybody in here using the new UBLOX MAX-7, running at 3.3V?
[01:14] <esculca> it seems to take forever to get a lock
[01:15] <esculca> and it's hot like hell
[01:15] <esculca> I guess it's ruined
[01:15] <esculca> but it replies over the serial port
[01:15] <esculca> has anybody got the same problem in here?
[01:21] <craag> It shouldn't be hot
[01:21] <craag> Does take longer to get a lock than the -6 generation
[01:21] <craag> But a lot more power efficient
[01:22] <esculca> but why is it so hot?
[01:22] <esculca> actually I had it connected to a 3.4 volt supply
[01:22] <esculca> now I changed it, and it is now connected to a 3.3.V rail
[01:23] <esculca> but it does reply, but with this: $PUBX,00,000202.00,0000.00000,N,00000.00000,E,0.000,NF,5303302,timeout
[01:23] <esculca> nothing else
[01:23] <esculca> no real values
[01:23] <esculca> with -6 as soon as I get it close to the window it got lock
[01:25] <craag> It shouldn't be hot
[01:25] <craag> that tells me there's something wrong
[01:25] <craag> even in acquisition it should only pull ~60mA
[01:26] <esculca> I agree
[01:26] <esculca> damm
[01:26] <esculca> I might have to get another one
[01:27] <craag> Have you checked the current it's drawing?
[01:28] <esculca> will do that
[01:29] <esculca> well, too late in here
[01:29] <esculca> will measure that current tomorrow
[01:29] <esculca> I am tired
[01:29] <esculca> but thanks a lot for the help
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[03:34] <aadamson> btw, the 7C's are extremely static sensative so be careful with them
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[04:52] <vk3bq> #picospace
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[08:10] <Earthshine> Morning all
[08:13] <mclane_> Good Morning!
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[08:46] Nick change: Guest13167 -> Maxell
[08:47] Nick change: Maxell -> Guest10099
[08:52] Nick change: Guest10099 -> Maxell
[08:57] <Maxell> PS seems to go nice.
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[09:38] <sv1jj> hello everyone!!
[09:39] <sv1jj> in an hour or so, there will be a HAB launch from southern Greece
[09:40] <sv1jj> it will be active on APRS as J43VHF-11
[09:41] <sv1jj> also there will be a qrp CW transmitter on 144.041Mhz and 28.055Mhz
[09:44] <vk3jed> Enjoy, we have been tracking a balloon down this end of the world all day. :)
[09:45] Nick change: vk3jed -> vk3irl
[09:46] Nick change: vk3irl -> vk3jed-vk3irl
[09:47] <chris_4x1rf> Good luck there to the entire J43VHF team! Ready to listen for it case it will come this way...
[09:47] <jcoxon> sv1jj, good luck
[09:47] <jcoxon> keep us updated
[09:48] <vk3jed-vk3irl> It's out of my range now, look up PS on space near.us
[09:49] <SA6BSS> will listen in on 28.055, Whats the predicted flight time and what´s power out on 28Mhz?
[09:53] Nick change: vk3jed-vk3irl -> vk3jed-Tony
[09:54] <Maxell> southern Greece!? nice!
[09:55] <Maxell> sv1jj: will it be tracked on spacenear.us?
[09:56] <sv1jj> power on 28Mhz almost 900mW and 700mW on 2m
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[09:56] <jcoxon> Maxell, i'm sure we can put it on
[09:56] <jcoxon> lets ping Upu
[09:56] <fsphil> qrp? :)
[09:56] <Maxell> sv1jj: get in contact with SV2KGA
[09:56] <fsphil> that's not bad for 28mhz
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[09:57] <sv1jj> Maxell: if someone can gate aprs to spacenear!!!
[09:57] <fsphil> if conditions behave
[09:57] <Upu> sup ?
[09:57] <Upu> whats the APRS call sign ?
[09:57] <Maxell> sv1jj: SV2KGA was QRV 4 hours ago from Katerini he might also want to track :)
[09:57] <Maxell> Upu: katerini
[09:57] <Maxell> J43VHF-11
[09:57] <sv1jj> J43HF-11
[09:57] <Maxell> :P
[09:58] <Upu> k 1 min
[09:58] <Maxell> hah
[09:58] <Upu> J43HF-11 was not found in the location database.
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[09:59] <Maxell> sv1jj: but no telemtry on 70 cm?
[09:59] <Maxell> just 10 meter and 2 meter?
[09:59] <sv1jj> UPU: sorry it is J43VHF-11
[09:59] <Maxell> 10 meter yagi is hard
[09:59] <Upu> ah more like it
[09:59] <Upu> 1 min
[10:01] <Maxell> sv1jj: ground control phone at 7120 khz lsb?
[10:01] <Maxell> Might be able to hear it here in .nl
[10:01] <Upu> ok spacenear
[10:01] <Maxell> http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=J43VHF-11 :)
[10:02] <sv1jj> Maxell 7160+- QRM
[10:02] <Upu> yeah I'll speak to Leo when he wakes up and see if I can remove some of the B's
[10:03] <daveake> I'm surprised he has sent up another one yet :)
[10:03] <Maxell> sv1jj: ok
[10:03] <daveake> hasn't
[10:04] <Maxell> I knew something was up with B-50
[10:04] <sv1jj> thanks Upu!!!
[10:04] <Maxell> Did #highaltitude already claim a 40 meter freqency? :)
[10:05] <Maxell> just for the sake of dual irc and phone
[10:05] <Upu> welcome good luck sv1jj
[10:06] <sv1jj> http://j43vhf.wordpress.com/
[10:07] <Maxell> SV3PJL-3 special ballon repeater? Nice!
[10:08] <Maxell> hehe someone calling cq cq 40 meter on 7160 lsb :P
[10:10] <sv1jj> Maxell the digi will help for the big mountain around the launch site!!!
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[10:19] <Maxell> sv1jj: do you guys have a digi/igate on the chase-car?
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[10:49] <Maxell> sv1jj: all still going ok? Looks like they are almost 3 hours late on the scedule.
[10:53] <SA6BSS> its mowing :)
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[10:57] <SA6BSS> snus not updating, but aprs.fi is
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[11:18] <Maxell> J43VHF-11 on the move
[11:18] <Maxell> Well, at least new altitude data.
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[11:26] <SA6BSS> its up
[11:27] <SA6BSS> conditions on 10m just died.
[11:27] <fsphil> typical
[11:27] <fsphil> what is your target altitude? or are going to try floating?
[11:28] <SA6BSS> no signals on NCDXF/IARU Beacon Network, and none on 27.555 witch is normaly crouded with south europe.
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[11:43] <Willdude123> Is it me or do Americans overuse the term incidentally?
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[12:02] <Maxell> SA6BSS: 27.555 hehe the famous tripple 5
[12:04] <SA6BSS> yeap, good condition warning to see how the band up on 10 :)
[12:05] <SA6BSS> made a lot of contacts on 555 20 years ago bwfore I become a ham
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[12:17] <Maxell> SA6BSS: 27.555 is even for hams still accessable
[12:17] <Maxell> :P
[12:18] <SA6BSS> not in swe
[12:18] <SA6BSS> but we know alot of ham do use 555
[12:19] <Maxell> SA6BSS: well, you can set your rig to 4 watts right?
[12:19] <Maxell> on 27.555 mhz?
[12:19] <Maxell> And your callsign is useless on that band :P
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[12:25] <SA6BSS> yes, but still not alowed, and just 6month ago the lokal (swedish) PTS, they administrate the freq plan, made a kind of a raid and sent out letters to ham that had freebanded on 555 and asked them to respond why they had done that and also have a plan and explain it would not happend agin.
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[12:28] <Maxell> SA6BSS: intresting. As far as I know in the Netherlands it's all fine as long as you don't output more then 4 watts EIRP on FM/SSB/AM.
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[12:36] <SA6BSS> ok. we can if we like, do as moutch dx we like as long we do it in the 26,965 to 27.405 same power, but hey, I got all the ham bands so I pass this, but I find it fun to listen on those frequncies, and we have national calling on 27.235 in the evening and weekends so we usuly call upp and qsy up to 28, 2m or 6m
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[12:47] <SA6BSS> and burst
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[14:06] Nick change: ghoti_ -> ghoti
[14:07] <Maxell> Anything from the J43VHF team yet?
[14:07] <amell> holy crapola - new tyres for my car are 180 quid each :(
[14:08] <amell> sad not to have heard from B-47 yet :(
[14:10] <DL7AD> amell: definetly. and there is not way to miss it in america
[14:11] <amell> Im hoping it just got caught in a circulatory system, and will break free soon
[14:11] <mikestir> well there is also that issue with it not transmitting if it's too high
[14:14] <Laurenceb_> hes depressed
[14:14] <nats`> ?
[14:14] <Laurenceb_> as B-50 popped
[14:14] <nats`> ohh :D
[14:14] <Laurenceb_> probably sulking :P
[14:15] <DL7AD> sad.... it had no helium masks as decompression accoured
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[14:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[14:38] <Adam012> Hi Lunar_lander
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[14:39] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[14:39] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[14:52] <Adam012> Busy, too much marking for my liking!
[14:53] <Adam012> I need some time to sit down with the team and start work on the next probe (we also need to raise £400 to complete the project)
[14:53] <Lunar_Lander> nice
[14:54] <Adam012> What are you working on?
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[15:01] <Adam012> What does Leo make his trackers out of? They are tiny!
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[15:03] <ulfr> blackmagic I've heard.
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[15:05] <Adam012> Woooo! :-p
[15:06] <Adam012> His homemade envelopes are doing a grand job, is her tracking via repeaters?
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[15:07] <Adam012> her==>he
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[15:25] <Maxell> Adam012: he also transmits APRS on the 144 MHz amateur band.
[15:25] <Maxell> World-wide coverage.
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[15:37] <Adam012> Why don't we use that band in the UK? It's under AMSAT/Amateur on the OFCOM tables.
[15:41] <Maxell> But it can't be used airborne.
[15:41] <Maxell> So the M0XER balloon waits until it is above a county where ham radio is allowed airborne.
[15:41] <Maxell> And it then transmits.
[15:42] <Adam012> He must be using geofences in his programmes then. Wow.
[15:42] <Maxell> Yes. He is.
[15:43] <Maxell> He also uses geofences to select the APRS freqency.
[15:45] <Maxell> http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=Frequencies#Primary_VHF_Networks
[15:46] <Adam012> His payloads don't look much longer than 2-3 inches and maybe 2cm in diameter. They're sophisticated little devices. Most seem to float at 8-12km which is a very cold spot in the atmosphere. Why aren't they suffering?
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[15:47] <Adam012> By the way thank you for taking the time to explain this. I'm still finding my way with amateur radio.
[15:48] <fsphil> mystery ssdv test images are mysterious
[15:48] <fsphil> (ssdv.habhub.org)
[15:57] <daveake> HAB being buzzed by a UFO
[15:57] <daveake> obviously :p
[16:00] <nats`> illuminati !
[16:01] <craag> Adam012: Have you got an AR license?
[16:02] <Adam012> No, I started the research for foundation and then got buried at work and haven't had a chance to pick it up again. I've been working 7 day weeks since Christmas.
[16:03] <fsphil> that's no fun
[16:03] <Adam012> Nope
[16:03] <fsphil> unless your job is testing games
[16:03] <fsphil> sampling pizza
[16:03] <craag> Fair does, reason I ask is to mention there'll be the practical and written exams at the ukhas conf
[16:04] <Adam012> Sorry got to go. I'm going to make an attempt to learn over the summer when I've got a little down time but I really need a new job!
[16:04] <craag> np, cya!
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[16:12] <Lunar_Lander> hi craag
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[16:21] <Willdude> How are the geofences done, is there a database of international borders published somewhere
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[16:29] <ibanezmatt13> what rfm69 eagle footprint are you using?
[16:29] <ibanezmatt13> craag
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> ah sparkfun have added a new rfm69 part since I last got the libraries, nvm
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[16:50] <amell> !status
[16:51] <craag> No bot yet, mfa is working on it
[16:51] <amell> thought zeusbot was a full bot
[16:52] <craag> ah crud wrong channel
[16:52] <craag> ibanezmatt13: YOu confused me!
[16:52] <craag> Yeah zeusbot is capable, but doesn't have much interactivity
[16:52] <craag> zeusbot slap craag
[16:52] <craag> nah that doesn't work either
[16:54] <ibanezmatt13> haha :)
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[16:56] <aadamson> ok, little more on the solar discussion... I got full sun today to make a better test, and maybe I'm going to warm up to these powerfilm cells yet
[16:57] <aadamson> 3.6v lipo (mostly discharged) on an spv1040 controller. VD set for 4.2 volts (430k/180k resistors).
[16:58] <aadamson> 2 - 1x3 inch crystal cells in parallel, voc supposed to be .5v
[16:58] <aadamson> outside temps around 75F
[16:58] <aadamson> with a meter inline the positive leave of the battery measuring current going *into* the battery
[16:58] <aadamson> the crystals generate about 19ma (it will be higher in colder temperatures, usually I see 20-22ma)
[16:58] <Lunar_Lander> Willdude, ah sorry not to have come back to your question
[16:59] <Lunar_Lander> geofences are interesting, a little challenge involved there
[16:59] <Lunar_Lander> the first people to make geofences actually had to take the pain of doing survey travels using theodolites and so on to determine the coordinates needed for the geofences
[16:59] <aadamson> The same setup, with 2 mp3-25 powerfilm modules, these are supposed to be voc 4.2 (I have no idea how they get that), the voltage at the controller is 1.5v
[16:59] <Lunar_Lander> this is how the great Upu did it for example
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[17:00] <aadamson> the 2 powerfilms in parallel - 29-30ma and temperature doesn't seem to make any difference, I'm going to go put them in my freezer
[17:00] <aadamson> and see what a cold set will do, but at the moment, the only down side to the powerfilms are they are a little heavier
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[17:01] <aadamson> a lot more flexible.
[17:02] <Willdude> Lunar_Lander, don't most countries publish their border details?
[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> ah well there is the problem
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[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> I think so
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[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> but you see, we cannot forget the great endeavour of those men who went out to determine those borders
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[17:03] <Lunar_Lander> there was no GPS back then!
[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> just see the pictures dave posted of the one balloon recovery where it was all rainy and stuff
[17:04] <aadamson> I'm thinking that the sp3-37's would be the ticket, they are pretty similar to the mp3-25's, a smidge lighter and they wouldn't have as much flex as they aren't long or narrows
[17:04] <Lunar_Lander> it was just like that back then
[17:05] <Lunar_Lander> standing knee deep in the mud just to take that coordinate reading
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[17:05] <aadamson> One thing to note. on the crystal cells and maybe this is voltage related to the controller, they seem to drop in current output much ealier than the powerfilms do as the voltage rises on the lipo
[17:06] <Lunar_Lander> Willdude, we can be lucky that someone then invented the rocket and satellites and that Einstein calculated that GPS could work
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[17:09] <jededu> Is there an eagle footprint available for the spv1040
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[17:10] <LeoBodnar_> I can't see how Einstein is related to GPS. Apart from correcting slight LO offset
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[17:12] <LeoBodnar_> aadamson: so what is your total power budget and PV converetr efficiency?
[17:12] <LeoBodnar_> I don't understand what you are doing
[17:13] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar_, ah I was once told that general relativity is the foundation of the idea how GPS works
[17:13] <LeoBodnar_> did you ask why Lunar_Lander ?
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[17:14] <Lunar_Lander> no, but I always meant to look it up
[17:14] <aadamson> LeoBodnar_, I simply wanted to see what the A/B difference was between a standard crystal cell setup and these powerfilm cells
[17:14] <LeoBodnar_> GPS local oscillators are corrected for gravitational effects but i can't see how this can be "the foundation"
[17:14] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[17:15] <aadamson> for the same setup, the powerfilms are about about 10-15% better in output than the same setup of crystal cells
[17:15] <Lunar_Lander> ah here http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html
[17:15] <LeoBodnar_> if this wasn't know engineers would have corrected frequeuncy anyway and attributed it to say temperature effects, etc
[17:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[17:15] <Lunar_Lander> you are right, special and general relativity generate effects that must be corrected
[17:15] <aadamson> they don't seem to as temperature influences as crystal cells
[17:15] <aadamson> At -C temps who knows
[17:15] <amell> GPS has everything to do with relativity...
[17:16] <LeoBodnar_> everything like what?
[17:16] <LeoBodnar_> relative distance?
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[17:17] <amell> time runs 45us slower in geosynchronous orbit.
[17:17] <mattbrejza> i think the main issue is that the clock on the satellites drifts very slightly over time rather than any thing that needs to be taken into account if one were to make their own reciever
[17:17] <amell> per day
[17:17] <LeoBodnar_> so what?
[17:17] <LeoBodnar_> this would be easily corrected by earh segment on daily basis
[17:17] <amell> all the gps sats correct for this on board.
[17:17] <LeoBodnar_> even if nobody knew about Einstein
[17:18] <mattbrejza> the gps seems to be a nice example to tell people to prove we wernt bullshtting about gravity somehow affecting time
[17:18] <LeoBodnar_> I'd go as far as say general relativity allows for *slightly improved* accuracy of GPS
[17:18] <LeoBodnar_> no more
[17:19] <amell> if we didnt correct accurately for relativisitic effects, GPS would be about 10km per day inaccurate.
[17:19] <LeoBodnar_> but apart from that it is good old Newtonian / Maxwell system
[17:19] <aadamson> LeoBodnar_, I think I saw someone mention this, but do you beacon at a different rate at night vs. day?
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[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> paper about GPS and GRT http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/
[17:20] <Lunar_Lander> (not GRT, ahhhrg) general relativity
[17:21] <LeoBodnar_> after the first correction cycle Einstein shift would have been taken out by ground segment and corrected for
[17:21] Action: amell fell asleep at minkowskian space-time
[17:21] <LeoBodnar_> just like any other LO drift that are being correcetd
[17:22] <amell> 20 years since I had to derive relativity from first principles at Uni maths class. Not found an application since.
[17:22] <LeoBodnar_> so what is your total power requirement in mW averaged over the 24h?
[17:23] <LeoBodnar_> i don't understand how are you sizing the batteries?
[17:23] <LeoBodnar_> it does not matter than one seems to be 10% better than the other
[17:23] <LeoBodnar_> you may be x10 times off either side
[17:24] <LeoBodnar_> s/batteries/solar panels/
[17:24] <LeoBodnar_> and batteries too
[17:27] <LeoBodnar_> i wonder if satellite clock drift parameters can actually fit in Einsteinian offset
[17:27] <aadamson> my bad on a typo, they were 50% better.
[17:27] <aadamson> 20ma of current to a 3.6v lipo vs. 30ma
[17:27] <aadamson> on the powerfilms
[17:27] <LeoBodnar_> not having enough bits for satellite data correction half-screwed up EGNOS
[17:28] <aadamson> all the above is with *NO* load on the buck controller, I'm just looking at charge current to the lipo with no load
[17:28] <LeoBodnar_> so it can't be used for direct ranging now
[17:28] <LeoBodnar_> so how did you size the LiPo capacity?
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[17:29] <aadamson> it's a 200/250 mah lipo, I have 2 one 200 and one 250
[17:29] <aadamson> same output from the panels
[17:29] <aadamson> they are standard *earth temp* lipos at the moment
[17:29] <aadamson> I've not been successful at tracking down a *cold lipo*.
[17:30] <aadamson> jury is still out there, waiting to hear back from your contacts
[17:30] <aadamson> they were doing some checking
[17:30] <aadamson> I'm just going by the manufacture spec. crystal cells are voc of .5, power film claims voc of 4.1v and operating at 3.0v/25ma
[17:30] <aadamson> on their mp3-25 cell
[17:31] <aadamson> but at the input to the spv1040, there is only 1.5v when 2 are in parallel
[17:31] <aadamson> same with a single too btw
[17:32] <aadamson> at the moment in the same outside conditions, the mp3-25's provide 10ma more than the crystal cells
[17:32] <aadamson> to a discharged battery
[17:34] <aadamson> LeoBodnar_, I'm after a 1C discharge @ -40C and most likely a .5-1C charge at that same temp
[17:34] <aadamson> I'm pretty sure that's what lipo you are using
[17:34] <LeoBodnar_> Looks like current navigation message does not have enough bits to accomodate gravitational offset of satellite local clock
[17:35] <aadamson> I *don't* need 1C, but that seems to be the smallest discharge that people discuss in specifications
[17:35] <LeoBodnar_> nevertheless I think thanking Einstein for GPS is a bit too dar
[17:35] <LeoBodnar_> *far
[17:36] <LeoBodnar_> Gravitational LO freq shift is about 5*10^-10
[17:37] <LeoBodnar_> NAV message first order correction is 16 bit value with a scale of
[17:37] <LeoBodnar_> wait
[17:37] <LeoBodnar_> base system fail
[17:38] <LeoBodnar_> i'll finish just for curious: [18:37] <LeoBodnar_> NAV message first order correction is 16 bit value with a scale of 2^-43sec/sec
[17:39] <LeoBodnar_> which makes maximum correction poosible 3.7*10^-9
[17:39] <LeoBodnar_> boom
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[17:40] <LeoBodnar_> happily correct for Einstein with no modification to current system
[17:41] <LeoBodnar_> so existing infrastructure allows for x10 shift than that predicted by Einstein
[17:41] <LeoBodnar_> I think NASA did not fully trust Albert
[17:43] <LeoBodnar_> I am only using this battery because it is what i have figured is required for my system
[17:43] <aadamson> yep, understood, it's more than adequate for mine as well actually
[17:43] <LeoBodnar_> if your system is 5 times more efficient than mune why use oversized battery and panels?
[17:44] <aadamson> who said anything about 5 times better? I have no idea if it's better or worse actually, it's all just learnings
[17:44] <LeoBodnar_> battery is the biggest weight, so why not use what is better suited?
[17:44] <aadamson> that's really what led me down this path... I'm at the point of trying to figure out power budgets, etc
[17:44] <Laurenceb_> I looked at insulating the battery
[17:44] <Laurenceb_> it was borderline feasible
[17:44] <LeoBodnar_> if your idle current is 0uA you can make it 5 times more efficient with one #define
[17:44] <aadamson> but I like to work from a *baseline* and luck you. you are the baseline :)
[17:45] <Laurenceb_> using aerogel insulation
[17:45] <LeoBodnar_> i have not designed for minimum current consumption so baseline is not 0
[17:45] <LeoBodnar_> it is more like 1-5mA
[17:45] <aadamson> yes, mine is 2.5 - 3ma
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[17:45] <aadamson> so I'm right in the ball park
[17:46] <Laurenceb_> certainly if you only want +20C battery heating its doable
[17:46] <aadamson> I can't get the dpll down below 2ma and that is all that is on during idle
[17:46] <Lunar_Lander> thanks LeoBodnar_ for the info :)
[17:47] <aadamson> it's in standby, but even when the pll is off, it still draws current
[17:47] <aadamson> and the outputs are off as well
[17:47] <aadamson> processor is off, gps is off, radio is off
[17:49] <aadamson> and when I say baseline... I just mean *stuff being used performs as* - hard to discount the success you/you've had... so you are the baseline (in a general sense)
[17:49] <Laurenceb_> you might do better taking a few tens of mA to heat the battery
[17:49] <LeoBodnar_> if you can get away with a few updates per night use few grams supercap
[17:49] <LeoBodnar_> there is no *baseline*
[17:49] <aadamson> hehe...
[17:49] <aadamson> Ok, I give :)
[17:49] <aadamson> how much do you slow beacons at night?
[17:49] <LeoBodnar_> if i coul make GPS wake up cleanly it would all be completely different
[17:50] <aadamson> I've done some more testing there
[17:50] <aadamson> I all depends on 2 things from my experience.
[17:50] <aadamson> a) how long you wait before you shut it off the first time
[17:50] <aadamson> b) how long you pause between
[17:50] <LeoBodnar_> i.e. *you* have to define how many updates are OK for you
[17:51] <aadamson> if I wait for 5 sats and a 3G lock and hold that for 5 seconds before I shut off the first time
[17:51] <aadamson> I can turn on anytime in the next 2 minutes and have lock and 3G in less that 3 seconds
[17:51] <LeoBodnar_> if this is national flight with recovery then you want to keep updating permanently, if it flies over Atlantic, 2-3 per night is just fine
[17:51] <aadamson> I ran an hour of outside testing day before yesterday doing that
[17:51] <LeoBodnar_> and during the day it will work even without any battery
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[17:53] <aadamson> btw, is your flat low voltage at the 3v mark that I saw on one of your recent B's the reset hardware kicking it?
[17:53] <aadamson> in?
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[17:55] <aadamson> Laurenceb_, have you had goodluck with a 0603 32.768khz crystal for rtc? I'm thinking of adding it on my design, but wondering which people are using?
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[17:56] <aadamson> I can and am running of the 37khz LSI with a calibration even on a timer each time before sleep, but I could use alarms to wake with a more stable RTC
[17:56] <Laurenceb_> yeah i have a ton of work projects using them
[17:56] <Laurenceb_> ive got a load of +-30ppm 0603 xtals
[17:56] <aadamson> btw, anyone heard if kicksat reentered yet?
[17:56] <Laurenceb_> they are all +-5ppm, which is nice
[17:56] <Laurenceb_> dunno
[17:56] <aadamson> if you think about it drop me a PN when you have a few mins
[17:57] <aadamson> I guess it had a *radiation* event, or at least that what they are blaming the issue on, it reset the RTC and so the pyro event to release the microsats most likely isn't going to happen
[17:57] <DL7AD> hi
[17:57] <aadamson> because the RTC reset, the even will happen *after* reentry it now appears
[17:57] <DL7AD> evening
[17:57] <aadamson> Hey Sven... btw all it's Alan on this end :)
[17:59] <aadamson> if they make it in orbit until the 16th, there is a *slim* chance of getting the release of microsats
[17:59] <aadamson> apparently the RTC event was one issue, they also have a battery issue
[17:59] <aadamson> voltage is too low to turn on the RX's
[18:00] <aadamson> so they can't *command release*
[18:00] <Laurenceb_> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/crystal-units/7293246/
[18:00] <Laurenceb_> those
[18:00] <LeoBodnar_> radiation? what radiation?
[18:00] <LeoBodnar_> kicksat said it won't be a problem
[18:01] <aadamson> yeah... I now
[18:01] <aadamson> not sure what they were *smoking*
[18:01] <LeoBodnar_> "The lack of radiation hardening on the Sprites wont be a problem, either. This shouldnt be a surprise, as theyre orbiting well within our wonderful, protective magnetosphere, and there are digital cameras, tablets, and other much more radiation sensitive electronics that have been working perfectly on the ISS for years now."
[18:01] <aadamson> thanks Laurenceb_ !
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> wonderful Leo
[18:02] <LeoBodnar_> The woman just rang saying there is radiation up there. Well, if you are listening, don't worry!
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> lol
[18:03] <aadamson> Laurenceb_, what if any caps with that?
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> 10pF
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[18:06] <jcoxon> surely they can ping the kicksat of a network of disused russian satellites
[18:06] <jcoxon> like in the films
[18:07] <aadamson> doesn't matter if you phone it if NO_ONE's LISTENING (the RX's are shutdown)
[18:07] <daveake> Or get Bruce Willis to land on it
[18:07] <LeoBodnar_> just send some disused russian to fix it
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[18:12] <aadamson> "But the daughter satellites, dubbed sprites, never deployed from KickSat. Cornell graduate student Zac Manchester, who leads the project, wrote in a blog posting that KickSat's microcontroller reset on 30 April, likely due to a high dose of radiation."
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[18:12] <aadamson> too bad, too cuz it was kinda an interesting mission - https://directory.eoportal.org/web/eoportal/satellite-missions/k/kicksat
[18:16] <aadamson> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zacinaction/kicksat-your-personal-spacecraft-in-space/posts - last pledge amount - some*one* can't be very happy :)
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[18:24] <LeoBodnar_> Even Newton lost a fortune to crowds madness
[18:25] <nats`> should we talk about the code stealing again
[18:25] <nats`> this project is making me angry
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[18:27] <LeoBodnar_> would you like to talk about this nats` ?
[18:28] <nats`> no I already did that yesterday
[18:28] <nats`> and it made me pretty angry :p
[18:28] <nats`> not good for my dizzyness :p
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[18:38] <Earthshine> Wow..... http://www.ustream.tv/channel/iss-hdev-payload
[18:46] <nats`> I need to put that in background of my desktop !
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[18:53] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
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[18:53] <SpeedEvil> I wish it was actually usable forthat
[18:53] <Lunar_Lander> hi DL1SGP
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[18:54] <SpeedEvil> - 1/4 of the cameras is a bit off - and you've then got 1/2 of the time when it's dark, 1/4 of the time when it's switching between cameras, and 1/3 of the time when it's in LOS
[18:58] <amell> just reading about kicksat. wtf. that is a screw up
[18:59] <LeoBodnar_> i am most interested in why it has been launched with flat batteries
[18:59] <Laurenceb_> safety?
[19:00] <LeoBodnar_> then why need batteries altogether if it has PV panels
[19:00] <LeoBodnar_> it's all very puzzling
[19:00] <LeoBodnar_> if the concept is puzzling it will fail
[19:02] <amell> reading mailing list. apparently they had to wait a number of days before triggering because of chance of collison with ISS>
[19:03] <LeoBodnar_> it's 100% vanity project
[19:03] <Lunar_Lander> hmmm
[19:03] <aadamson> it was suppose to send them out 16 days after launch. but on like the 15th day or some such, they had the *radiation* event, and yes it was sent up with flat batteries due to safety requirements, and they never got above 6.5v and yet the RX needed 8v
[19:03] <amell> that wasnt my understanding
[19:04] <aadamson> http://www.arrl.org/news/tiny-kicksat-sprite-satellites-may-not-deploy
[19:04] <amell> they were apparently not allowed to have remote activation, and it had to be timer release.
[19:04] <Lunar_Lander> hm
[19:04] <amell> so more foad.
[19:04] <amell> fud i mean :)
[19:05] <aadamson> the *drama* of the moment makes for a better story :)
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[19:09] <amell> 8V is the threshold "turn on" voltage for the main flight computer (smart phone) which interfaces with the S-band transceiver. All of this stuff was turned on when the spacecraft first launched, but most of the subsystems get turned off when the batteries get below 7V to save power. They don't turn back on again until the batteries get back up to 8V.
[19:10] <aadamson> and yet they haven't been above 6.5 for some time (perhaps since launch), the telemetry is out there somewhere if curious
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[19:13] <mimi> hello
[19:14] Nick change: mimi -> Guest33537
[19:14] <amell> aadamson: it was 7.83 V on April 20th.
[19:14] <mikestir> they used a smartphone to run the show?
[19:14] <amell> Nexus S
[19:15] <aadamson> *low budg* so they could keep all the kickstarter funds :)
[19:15] <mikestir> they would have been better with an arduino!
[19:15] <aadamson> hehe ^
[19:15] <amell> actually, the launch was delayed a number of times if i recall right
[19:15] <amell> that may be the reason for low v
[19:16] <mikestir> well I say that with an element of seriousness. larger silicon process, fewer transistors. less likely to suffer a "radiation event"
[19:16] <amell> am sure you can buy radiation hardened arduino
[19:16] <mikestir> I'm sure you can't buy a rad hard nexus S
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[19:18] <SpeedEvil> I'll sell you one.
[19:18] <SpeedEvil> BRB - melting lead.
[19:19] <mikestir> cheat! density is money!
[19:20] <aadamson> SpeedEvil, mikestir is that like the great piece of land off the coast of Kansas that I have for sale? ... lol
[19:21] <LeoBodnar_> make some Pb from H in orbit
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> No - simply a nexus s covered in enough lead - and it'll be rad-hard.
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> (technically, you don't want to use only lead)
[19:22] <nats`> or don't send a phone running a complex OS like android in space ?
[19:22] <nats`> reduce code quantity to have dedicated procedure
[19:22] <nats`> :p
[19:22] <LeoBodnar_> maybe it has received a text?
[19:22] <nats`> let launch the next soyouz with a galaxy S4
[19:22] <LeoBodnar_> "you are still due for compensation...."
[19:23] <amell> code stealing?
[19:23] <LeoBodnar_> all this radhard stuff. I sit not easier to run 3 arduinos with majoritary voting cell based on hard logic?
[19:24] <mikestir> well yeah all this stuff tends to come back to doing some _actual engineering_ instead of just throwing something together and hoping it works, which seems to be what hobby electronics is all about now
[19:24] <amell> seems arduino is not available radhard, but is 100x less susceptible compared to uc using 35nm
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar_: I had a basic design based on desktop processors like that
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar_: Though they were K6/233's
[19:25] <mikestir> see also "watchdog timer"
[19:25] <LeoBodnar_> yeah, it justs costs pennies and fun
[19:25] <LeoBodnar_> why not do that?
[19:25] <mikestir> which they seem to have forgotten about as well
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> Put two of them in bus-snoop mode, add enough wait-states, and hard-reset when the 'error' flag goes up
[19:25] <amell> fractal antenna? is this an april fool? http://www.rtlsdr.com/2013/07/fractal-antenna-for-use-with-rtl-sdr-or-your-hdtv/
[19:25] <mikestir> no fractal antennas are an actual thing
[19:26] <LeoBodnar_> they are very broadband so *shrug*
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[19:39] <Maxell> covers 50-1100MHz
[19:39] <Maxell> damn
[19:39] <Maxell> That must be quite a compromise
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[19:50] <LeoBodnar_> Some people have strange problems: "The problem with air is that it liquefies too easily."
[19:51] <mattbrejza> http://www.reddit.com/r/fifthworldproblems
[19:51] <LeoBodnar_> Mach 50 wind tunnel http://history.nasa.gov/SP-440/ch6-15.htm
[19:52] <mattbrejza> oh right
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[20:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> good evening
[20:04] <Motolization> good evening
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[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar_, the people at Uni were impressed by B-47 just wanted to say
[20:13] Action: amell wants to try a voitenko compressor
[20:14] <amell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_anvil_cell - test equipment needed for B-51?
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[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> hmm
[20:19] <craag> Lunar_Lander: You need to sell the idea to some prof, get them to fund a german replacement!
[20:19] <craag> *competitor
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> ah DL7AD is at it :)
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> but yes, it is resembling the superpressure balloons of Project GHOST
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> and if you have a constant-altitude balloon, it is behaving like a particle in the wind at this altitude
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> that's a Lagrangian marker then
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> (which is like a camera on a F1 car, a camera watching the car from the outside would be on an Eulerian frame of reference)
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[21:05] <ibanezmatt13_> you know if you have a miniusb jack with 5v flowing through it, if you had it right next to an inductor, is that a bad thing?
[21:05] <myself> voltage doesn't flow
[21:06] <myself> current flows
[21:06] <myself> and it's a question of how well the inductor's field is contained or whether it's gonna interact with other nearby conductors or ferrous metal (which the jack shell surely is)
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[21:06] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah, so it's probably a bad idea :P
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[21:07] <myself> which depends on the inductor core shape -- toroids have a tighter field than bobbins, for instance
[21:07] <myself> and on whether the inductor is there for filtering or for energy storage
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13_> it's on a solar lipo charging ic for step up
[21:08] <DL7AD> Lunar_Lander: ? do i miss something?
[21:08] <DL7AD> *did
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> ah craag said we'd need a german equivalent to the B-Series balloons from Leo
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> and D-1 and D-2 were just that :)
[21:08] <craag> erm 2 << 50
[21:09] <craag> get a move on!
[21:09] <DL7AD> Lunar_Lander: i will write an PM to you
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> please don't hit me
[21:09] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:09] <myself> ibanezmatt13_: then you'll probably get some coupling to the USB signals, including power. Check the inductor's datasheet for keep-out area.
[21:10] <ibanezmatt13_> thanks myself will do :)
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13_> power circuit lookin' good now http://pbrd.co/1l8KoSa
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[22:29] <DL7AD> okay good night at all!
[22:29] <Reb-SM3ULC> night
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[23:00] <Laurenceb_> hi Prometheas
[23:00] <Prometheas> hi Laurenceb_
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FfkgwPNm3uA/S92QR_mVvvI/AAAAAAAAGiE/amkq0ItGw2c/s1600/a.jpg
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> is that your work?
[23:01] <Prometheas> nope :)
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> oh lol
[23:01] <Laurenceb_> wait are you Monroe?
[23:02] <Prometheas> no...
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> oh sorry
[23:02] <Laurenceb_> i got you confused with someone else
[23:05] <Prometheas> no problem, I'm new here
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[23:31] <aadamson> probably everyone is off to bed... upu, might you be around?
[23:32] <aadamson> Laurenceb_, you still among the living? looking for some one to check a data sheet and see if I'm reading it correctly
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[23:53] Action: amell burps
[00:00] --- Mon May 12 2014