highaltitude.log.20140508

[00:00] <amell> I suppose the error in the logic is the result of opportunistic cut-and-paste, but even the comment mentions that the taps are for an entirely different chip & lol
[00:00] <mikestir> that block was just pulled from fpga arcade verbatim
[00:01] <mikestir> it's not very synchronous - it would be fine on CPLD but it's marginal on an FPGA
[00:02] <amell> remind me what does *fx9,0 do?
[00:03] <mikestir> no idea
[00:03] <mikestir> I do still have the printed manuals somewhere though
[00:03] <mikestir> anyway nn
[00:04] <amell> oh its to change the text colour
[00:04] <amell> *fx9 and *fx10
[00:04] <amell> flash rate
[00:04] <amell> in mode 2
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[00:07] <nats`> I do RF I do occasionnal verilog design and I'm stuck on a I2C bug -_-
[00:07] <nats`> time to grab the hammer and hit until it works
[00:07] <amell> #fail
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[00:15] <nats`> ok cool it's software not hardware
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[00:19] <amell> now why did B-49 go back on itself
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[01:46] <jiffe98> amell: maybe it forgot something?
[01:50] <jiffe98> why does b-47 show as having transmitted today on snus
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[05:10] <Reb-SM3ULC> jiffe98: stray aprs-packets?
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[05:28] <x-f> it's an APRS importer bug
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[08:09] <fsphil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27322166
[08:09] <fsphil> aww
[08:10] <amell> yeah :( i met him once
[08:10] <daveake> :(
[08:10] <amell> he had a good go with beagle
[08:11] <fsphil> well, a go anyway :)
[08:11] <amell> someone has already edited wikipedia
[08:19] <malgar> oooh! Pillinger!! the one of Beagle on mars
[08:19] <malgar> great man
[08:22] <malgar> We need a Pillinger Memorial Station on Mars
[08:23] <amell> We need a Pillinger balloon, with a lander that works
[08:25] <malgar> :D
[08:26] <amell> this lander should land the right way up, unfold correctly to expose solar panels, and start transmitting
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[08:27] <fsphil> wrong planet sadly
[08:27] <amell> we can but pay homage from our home planet
[08:28] <fsphil> though if we did it in australia, it would look the same
[08:28] <malgar> transmitting the Blur's song
[08:29] <amell> yes, this seems a reasonable challenge
[08:29] <eroomde> oh bugger!
[08:29] <eroomde> about colin
[08:29] <eroomde> i met him a few times
[08:29] <eroomde> i work with a guy who did beagle 2's parachute system at martin baker
[08:29] <eroomde> who knew him fairly well
[08:30] <fsphil> on telly he seemed an odd fella
[08:30] <malgar> :O
[08:30] <malgar> wow
[08:30] <fsphil> but all round nice
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[08:30] <amell> he was a typical slightly eccentric british scientist.
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[08:31] <eroomde> he certainly had to deal with some crap
[08:31] <eroomde> a herculean effort to manage something like beagle2 with so little funding
[08:31] <eroomde> and such uncertain, changing funding
[08:31] <amell> Im impressed he even made it to mars with all that crap
[08:31] <eroomde> i'm pleased the government has now slightly more got its shit togther on funding space projects
[08:32] <eroomde> just by my office is the rocket my colleague used to 'launch' his book
[08:32] <eroomde> he decided to do a literal book launch
[08:32] <amell> that rocket was launched at elsworth if i recall right
[08:34] <eroomde> yep
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[08:44] <Seejjay> Good morning. I have a question regarding B-47 and APRS -
[08:44] <Seejjay> Could the ISS be used to relay packets during these long silences?
[08:44] <Seejjay> -- I can't stand the agony of waiting!!
[08:44] <Seejjay> (Well too late for B-47!)
[08:45] <amell> Seejjay: its likely flotsam on the pacific. If it makes it to the west coast, then that would be fab
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[08:46] <Seejjay> Let's hope it reaches the US, quite an achievement
[08:46] <eroomde> it 'could'
[08:47] <eroomde> (use the ISS)
[08:47] <eroomde> you just need an iss in the right place
[08:47] <Seejjay> :lol
[08:47] <eroomde> and an iss with an aprs gate
[08:48] <fsphil> ideally with a high gain antenna pointing directly at the payload
[08:48] <LeoBodnar> then nobody else will hear digipeats
[08:48] <Darkside> mm, th problm with using the ISS on this kind of low power payload is if its in range of a satgat, it's also in range of a bunch of other ground stations all doing way more power than you
[08:49] <Darkside> like, over europe you'll just get stomped on by italians
[08:49] <LeoBodnar> ISS comms require two conflicting conditions
[08:49] <LeoBodnar> no stataions to allow to go through
[08:49] <LeoBodnar> lots of stations to allow for digipeats to be heard
[08:49] <Darkside> :P
[08:49] <Darkside> yeah
[08:50] <Darkside> might work here in australia
[08:50] <Darkside> as we have far less stations that work the ISS regularly
[08:50] <Darkside> but we do have a few dedicated sat-gates
[08:50] <amell> hmm, how small can an iridium chipset get&. just get it to send you an sms every hour.
[08:50] <Darkside> amell: not that small
[08:50] <Darkside> go look up the rockblock
[08:51] <fsphil> they're also still very expensive
[08:51] <fsphil> not ideal for throwaway floats
[08:51] <LeoBodnar> we need to get some Bond tech
[08:51] <Darkside> totally
[08:53] <Seejjay> Ahh, I was just looking around and saw in Wikipedia (so it must be true)
[08:53] <Seejjay> 'A number of low-earth orbiting satellites, including the International Space Station, are capable of relaying APRS data.'
[08:53] <Seejjay> Did further searches and saw it is 'possible' and wondered about practicality for HAB say - over the pacific (or wherever)
[08:54] <Darkside> the issue is there are no ground receivers over the pacific
[08:54] <fsphil> the ISS just repeats packets it hears
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[08:54] <Darkside> there was 'supposed' to be a messageboard system, but i dont know if its operational or working
[08:54] <fsphil> getting it to hear the packet is the first trick
[08:55] <fsphil> making sure someone else hears the repeat is the second
[08:55] <fsphil> they have internet on the ISS, they could run it as an igate
[08:55] <fsphil> not exactly going to be high bandwidth
[08:56] <Seejjay> No, and probably very popular for novelty value
[08:56] <eroomde> i assume it'd need to be an igate
[08:56] <eroomde> rather than just a repeater
[08:57] <eroomde> they have an internet connection
[08:57] <eroomde> (gotta pass the time up there somehow)
[08:58] <amell> 434 or 868mhz, which has better range in a cornfield?
[08:59] <amell> i ordered 868, but worrying that i should have bought 434
[08:59] <eroomde> yeah
[08:59] <eroomde> lower generall is better
[08:59] <eroomde> generally*
[08:59] <eroomde> for a LoS pov
[08:59] <amell> i think ill email them and change it
[08:59] <eroomde> though if one is 500mW and the other is 10Mw, that'd probably make a bigger difference!
[09:00] <amell> they are both 100mw
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[09:00] <Darkside> 100mW on 434MHz?
[09:00] <amell> actually. let me check
[09:00] <Darkside> im sure the module is capable of it
[09:00] <Darkside> but you cant legally do that
[09:00] <Darkside> unless its under a ham licence
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[09:01] <amell> i meant 433Mhz
[09:01] <Darkside> same thing
[09:01] <Darkside> same ISM band anyway
[09:02] <amell> what is the limit?
[09:02] <Darkside> 25mW
[09:02] <Darkside> well
[09:02] <Darkside> in australia its 25mW, in the UK its 10mW
[09:02] <amell> and 868Mhz 100mW is ok?
[09:02] <Darkside> it also depends on your mode of transmission
[09:02] <daveake> At 10% duty cycle IIRC
[09:02] <Darkside> yeah
[09:03] <amell> so for my application, 868Mhz is actually likely to have best range, because of the 100mW
[09:03] <daveake> And that's "per minute" not "1 day in 10" :(
[09:03] <eroomde> amell: yes
[09:05] <amell> order stays as is then :)
[09:11] <fsphil> you can do 500mw on certain parts of the 869mhz ism band
[09:11] <fsphil> 10% duty
[09:12] <amell> I am quite sure 10% duty wont be a problem. It will be likely 1 packet every 5-10 seconds.
[09:12] <amell> turn on and off in between
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[09:13] <mfa298> amell: you probably need to spend some time going through IR2030 as that is what will answer all the questions as to what's legal on the various ISM bands in the UK. asking the question here you'll only get the bits people can remember for sure (so 10mW on 434 for airborne)
[09:14] <amell> i will do that at some point. plenty of time
[09:14] <mfa298> Also you might want to look up path loss calculations as that will show you how frequency and power limit the range.
[09:15] <eroomde> calculating paths through rape fields is probably non-triv
[09:16] <mfa298> for the same link budget I think it works out you need 6dB more power on 868Mhz compared to 434MHz
[09:16] <gonzo_> the field for a given eirp is frequency independant
[09:17] <gonzo_> the whole path loss concept is just a bodge
[09:18] <eroomde> it's not a massive bidge, i don't think, but the trick to it making any kind of sense is to reliase how it uses antenna 'area'
[09:18] <gonzo_> it includes the capture area of the antennas as freq chjanges. Which I think should be considered separatly
[09:18] <mfa298> biggest factors for path loss in this case is most likely to be the bank of mud you've landed behind rather than the tx power.
[09:18] <gonzo_> snap
[09:19] <gonzo_> It masks the important concepts that should be understood (or at least appreciated)
[09:19] <gonzo_> 'free space path loss' just gives the wrong ide
[09:20] <gonzo_> aa
[09:21] <eroomde> yeah, i definitely agree that it seems a bit unintuitive until you realise it factors that
[09:21] <mfa298> my main thought with suggesting looking at the freespace loss was it helps understand part of the answer "not always" for the question "more power on 868 is better than less power on 434"
[09:21] <fsphil> is this for a rocket? the best choice might be whatever antenna fits in the body best
[09:21] <eroomde> yeah exactly
[09:21] <eroomde> many more engineering considerations
[09:22] <amell> any relevant antenna will fit just fine
[09:22] <mfa298> other benefit 868 could have is there's less junk on the band.
[09:24] <eroomde> 'relevent' antenna?
[09:24] <eroomde> i find fitting antennas in rockets to be a Hard Problem
[09:24] <amell> nosecone
[09:24] <mfa298> I think there's probably quite a few things to consider for the antenna
[09:25] <amell> its ok. design allows it.
[09:25] <mfa298> how big is this nosecone ?
[09:25] <amell> 16 inches long
[09:25] <gonzo_> lenn man made junk. I thing the cosmic/thermal noise is probably baout the same as 434 (near enough) and these days low noise LNA's mean that system noise will be similar on both bands. (probabloy be dominated by thermal antenna noise anyway.)
[09:26] <mfa298> how wide
[09:26] <amell> 4 inches
[09:26] <mfa298> that could be quite limiting for antennas then
[09:26] <gonzo_> though higher freq, means more gain for the given antenna capture area, so maybee less thermal antenna noise, if pointed up from horison)
[09:27] <amell> mfa298: eh? why?
[09:27] <mfa298> you're not going to fit a hab standard ground plane in that space (not that a hab standard ground plane antenna is likely to be suitable unless the rocket stays vertical the same time)
[09:28] <amell> i was going to use a rubber duck
[09:28] <amell> its not necessary to use hab standard surely
[09:28] <gonzo_> for 434, a patch antenna is probably beginning to be an attractive design for rockets
[09:28] <amell> http://lowpowerlab.com/forum/index.php/topic,112.0.html was another option
[09:29] <gonzo_> 868 even more so
[09:29] <mfa298> no but you want an efficient antenna and rubber duck antennas potentially need a fair bit of design to work well (they're often only part of the antenna system)
[09:29] <eroomde> i'd use a dipole on 868
[09:29] <amell> this small dipole gets 1 mile range
[09:29] <eroomde> inside a tube, depending on what the tube is made from
[09:29] <gonzo_> but I assume rockets will be so close to the RX that anything will do
[09:30] <amell> tube is not CF!
[09:30] <eroomde> cool
[09:30] <eroomde> well then, i'd probably just glue a tipole to the inside or outside of a tube
[09:30] <eroomde> just needs to be two bits of wire
[09:31] <eroomde> dipole*
[09:31] <amell> yeah, im not fussed about the antenna. if it dont work then just revisit.
[09:31] <eroomde> iterate to victory
[09:32] <mfa298> I'd probably start off with a dipole as well as that would hopefully fit in the space. Potentially doing it the same way as some of the hab boards where the uC and radio sit at the feed point (assuming it will fit in the nosecone)
[09:33] <amell> everything will fit easily in the payload space below the nosecone, i will just leave the sarantel for the gps in the tube and feed the dipole through into the nosecone
[09:33] <eroomde> just to complicate things, if possible you'll have a much better time if the sarantel can be up in the nosecone
[09:34] <amell> thats a bit of a pain.
[09:34] <eroomde> ok
[09:34] <amell> didnt want to cut the nosecone open
[09:34] <eroomde> fair enough
[09:35] <mfa298> I'm wondering how much having the feed for the dipole right next to one of the elements would affect it.
[09:35] <gonzo_> small rockets, we used 10mW cctv cams with a crappy 1/4 wave and colour analogue video. Worked fine even with that bandwidth
[09:35] <eroomde> i'm looking to (this is the segment of the show where i entertain the idea of spending engineering effort on hobbies as opposed to job) put quite a nice nosecone together
[09:35] <eroomde> full of avionics
[09:35] <gonzo_> (small rockets, bit very high)
[09:35] <mfa298> although you could try a sleve dipole although i think they're harder to tune (my attempts don't perform that well)
[09:35] <eroomde> including the custom gps
[09:36] <eroomde> gonzo_: microwave nerding
[09:36] <eroomde> you know about it, I believe
[09:37] <eroomde> are there any good rsgb and arrl books or groups that are worth subscribing to/jopining?
[09:37] <mfa298> during flight some compromises in the design probably wont be too much of an issue, but they could impact the marginal cases when the rocket is near the ground or landed.
[09:38] <mfa298> eroomde: I think some of the microwave nerding people are similar to the batc crowd
[09:38] <amell> wtf. bastards at hmrc sent me a debt collection letter for tax owed
[09:38] <amell> i paid it all back in jan.
[09:38] <eroomde> i really don't want to get into doing my own tax
[09:39] <daveake> They lost track of it
[09:39] <eroomde> but i'm gonna be renting a room out in my house which io'll have to delcare anyway
[09:39] <amell> phone calls to make to hmrc. later
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[09:45] <RB> still nothing from the Bs
[09:45] <RB> ?
[09:45] <eroomde> nope
[09:46] <RB> are we still hopeful?
[09:48] <eroomde> well it's not 'late' according to the forecasts
[09:48] <eroomde> i think the nominal case was landfall later today
[09:48] <eroomde> it could easily be a couple of days late
[09:49] <eroomde> and it could have just ditched into the sea, hard to tell
[09:49] <eroomde> or it's fine but the payload has died
[09:49] <eroomde> or or
[09:49] <eroomde> who knows
[09:49] <eroomde> hope isn't really a thing i recognise as an engineer
[09:52] <RB> lol
[09:52] <RB> painful
[09:52] <RB> does floating over the sea rather than land affect them in any different way?
[09:53] <LeoBodnar> well other scenario is it is cruising at 12200m without anybody knowing
[09:53] <LeoBodnar> because i did not put it into airborne mode
[09:53] <eroomde> that would be amusing
[09:53] <LeoBodnar> it was not expected to go above 9km
[09:53] <daveake> Welcome to the "H" in "HAB", Leo :)
[09:53] <eroomde> that bug takes no prisoners
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> it only transmits positions at it dips below 12100m
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> lol
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> it wasn't strictly speacing a bug
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> but envelope performance was massively above projected
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> stil n00b! XD
[09:55] <RB> did you modify the envelope
[09:55] <LeoBodnar> yeah i have made it
[09:55] <daveake> Yes he modified it from being a sheet to being an envelope
[09:55] <Laurenceb__> it should go below 12100 at night
[09:55] <LeoBodnar> it still beeps at 434.500MHz though as it tries to restart and get a lock
[09:55] <Laurenceb__> unless something seriously weird has happened
[09:56] <LeoBodnar> so we might still hear it and triangulate
[09:56] <LeoBodnar> here you i have checked it for you
[09:56] <eroomde> it's not a bug if you're thinking like a software engineer
[09:57] <eroomde> but i think like a systems engineer
[09:57] <LeoBodnar> maximum altitude achieved with Pedestrian mode is 12100m
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[09:57] <amell> NB: is anyone actually listening for it?
[09:57] <LeoBodnar> not 12000 as DS says
[09:57] <eroomde> as problems occur when separate systems interact unexpectedly
[09:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: you have launched another one? :)
[09:57] <eroomde> (i find)
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[09:58] <DL7AD> morning!
[09:58] <amell> W7KKE was apparently listening for it.
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> well i had this failsafe where modes would change dynamically but it has been removed "for simplicity"
[09:58] <eroomde> cool example of separately working subsystems interacting to cause badness:
[09:58] <amell> maybe he will turn his kit back on soon.
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> sure, i am not perfect
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> i am not even moderately good
[09:59] <eroomde> on apollo 15, they were using the steering thrusters until quite late in reentry, just because of the reentry profile
[09:59] <amell> Leobodnar: god is flawed.
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[09:59] <eroomde> as a matter of course they vent the remainign fuel out through the chambers once on the way down in the atmosphere so it's not hanging around when the divers get the astronauts out
[09:59] <eroomde> as it's hypergolic and nasty
[10:00] <eroomde> so they did this as usual, ghowever the thrusters were still residually hot wenough to ignite this fuel in the atmosphere
[10:00] <eroomde> and it lobbed a burnging slug of fuel up into the revoery chutes
[10:00] <eroomde> which killed on of them
[10:00] <eroomde> this was a parachute system that had never had a problem on a mission
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[10:02] <amell> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-Vd75Ptg9I
[10:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: well, sometimes redundancy is worse than simplicity.. :)
[10:05] <daveake> amell I started reading the comments but they're mostly made by retards
[10:05] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: just testing a "redundant" system for sending sms-alarms...
[10:05] <amell> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A82Ol8J1g_I is fun. see patrick moore :)
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[10:17] <eroomde> anyway the defense of the parachute system offered was; "It didn't fail, it was murdered"
[10:31] <fsphil> it's depressing watching nasa-related videos on youtube. both for the user comments, and the 'related' videos
[10:34] <fsphil> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/05/08/apollo_15_joystick/
[10:37] <Laurenceb__> nice connectors
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[10:48] <Seejjay> I have a question on SDR and dl-fldigi in the way they operate
[10:50] <Seejjay> I have a funcube and tune using SDRConsole. once tuned, I can shut down SDRConsole and still see the signal in dl0flidgi.
[10:50] <Seejjay> Are we just using the SDR application as a tuner?
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[10:51] <Darkside> Seejjay: it sounds like you're pointing fldigi at the funcube dongls audio output
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[10:51] <Darkside> while it 'kind of' works, its not reccommnded
[10:51] Nick change: pb1dft_ -> pb1dft
[10:52] <Darkside> the funcube dongls audio output is actually a stream of 'complex' samples, and whn you point that at fldigi, you're effectiely using the funcube dongle as a double sideband (DSB) receiver
[10:52] <Darkside> what you should be doing is piping the audio output of sdr console into somethign like virtual audio cable, which acts as a 'loopback' devic
[10:53] <Darkside> then you point fldigi at that
[10:53] <Seejjay> Ahh, that may explain why I don't seem to get anything in dl-flidgi when signal is below tuning freq.
[10:53] <Seejjay> I had a play with VAC, I will have another go
[10:53] <Seejjay> TA!
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[11:48] <Reb-SM3ULC> i think vb-cable work ok, and fine that you cacn have 3 of them
[11:49] <fsphil> together we can find the cure to VB
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[11:51] <mikestir-work> fsphil: just find the cure to windows - kill two (+) birds with one stone
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[12:13] <mfa298> freenode seems a little unappy today
[12:13] <nats`> that's pretty fine
[12:13] <nats`> remember the netsplit party for 2 month last year
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[12:15] <mfa298> maybe we've just been spoilt with stability for a couple of months and normal service is now resuming
[12:16] <nats`> yay :D
[12:17] <nats`> everything is back to normal :D
[12:17] <g0pai_ian> Just noticed the item on the BBC news regarding the death of Professor Colin Pilger (Beagle) they listed his life as 1914 - 2104. I'm sure that he would see the irony of that.
[12:18] <amell> question: is there a rf technology that would allow me to locate something underwater. range does not need to be great, 50-100m max.
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[12:18] <Darkside> amell: look up what they use for cave diving
[12:19] <amell> probably ultrasound
[12:19] <Darkside> http://www.cavedivers.com.au/simple-underwater-radiolocation-system
[12:21] <amell> yeah. magnetic induction detection.
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[12:22] <jiffe98> amell: lose your keys?
[12:22] <amell> lol
[12:23] <aadamson> upu, noted in your code that you watched for the time, etc to not change and if so over a number of times you took action...
[12:23] <amell> someone i know died underwater, they didnt find him for several days. looking at what options there might be.
[12:23] <aadamson> I couldn't figure out why you'd need that
[12:23] <aadamson> then last night while testing, my gps module just stopped responding to commands
[12:23] <aadamson> it was like it went deaf, it wouldn't send or respond until a reboot
[12:23] <aadamson> does this happen often?
[12:24] <jiffe98> amell: wow, sorry man
[12:25] <amell> im thinking ultrasonic transducer, and encoding an ID into it.
[12:25] <UpuWork> aadamson in power saving some times if it looses lock
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[12:25] <UpuWork> normally if sats < 4 get it back in max performance mode and you'll be fine
[12:25] <UpuWork> are you making a tracker you intend to sell btw ?
[12:26] <aadamson> UpuWork, this could have been power saving, I wasn't watching it. But whatever happened, it stopped responding with information (I was polling it on a one second interval).
[12:26] <UpuWork> it's power saving
[12:26] <aadamson> my software continued to work, but the gps was just unresponsive
[12:26] <eroomde> amell: low frequencym, generallyu
[12:27] <aadamson> ah, that may make sense as I did have the feature enabled, but didn't look to see if it had be invoked
[12:27] <aadamson> no to answer your question
[12:27] <aadamson> not going to sell it
[12:27] <UpuWork> ok
[12:27] <aadamson> it's just a fun toy to mess with at the moment
[12:28] <UpuWork> stick it in power saving
[12:28] <UpuWork> then jam it out some how
[12:28] <UpuWork> (chinese cameras are always good)
[12:28] <eroomde> strawberry works best
[12:28] <UpuWork> it will likely freeze the time
[12:28] <eroomde> if you have a siggen just use that
[12:28] <eroomde> it's worth having a decent siggen in your life
[12:28] <UpuWork> and if its in PSM it will cease to response
[12:28] <UpuWork> respond
[12:29] <eroomde> it's very crap, that, i think
[12:29] <eroomde> a buggy feature
[12:29] <aadamson> hmm... interesting... I think I need to go look at the ref manual, I remember seeing something there about this... and yeah that's probably really an internal bug....
[12:29] <UpuWork> whats interesting
[12:29] <UpuWork> if you do it in uCenter
[12:29] <UpuWork> it never crashes
[12:30] <Seejjay> UpuWork: Thanks - received delivery. Now playing
[12:30] <eroomde> maybe ucenter pols the state and resets it
[12:30] <UpuWork> if I could replicate it in ucenter I'd be able to log a support issue
[12:30] <aadamson> yeah, that's whats interesting, I seem to remember it being discussed in the big manual
[12:30] <UpuWork> possibly
[12:30] <eroomde> you'd probably have to snoop the serial comms to be sure
[12:30] <UpuWork> I'll have to check that
[12:30] <UpuWork> nps Seejjay
[12:30] <aadamson> but I figured it would never effect me
[12:30] <eroomde> lol
[12:30] <eroomde> there's an epitaph if ever i've seen one
[12:30] <UpuWork> aadamson thats how the fail starts
[12:31] <aadamson> it seemed it was related to not being talked to for some time, in PSM mode and the serial driver internal to the module shuts down
[12:31] <UpuWork> if something can go wrong it will bite you in the ass usually around 30km up
[12:31] <UpuWork> feel free to work out what it is
[12:31] <aadamson> ideally they wanted you to enable an external trigger pin to *wake it*
[12:31] <UpuWork> it should wake on serial
[12:31] <aadamson> yes it should
[12:32] <aadamson> but (and I recalling from memory) it seemed it wanted a special... Oh yeah - 0xff - sent to it to wake it... hmm
[12:33] <GJ7DNI> picked up (m0xer) when i was in france on 3/5/14 at 100km away
[12:36] <amell> which one?
[12:36] <amell> theres a number of m0xers
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[12:41] <eroomde> more test equipment should have round CRTs
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> i think round CRTs instill calmness
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[12:43] <LeoBodnar> Time-to-market concept does not apply to them
[12:43] <eroomde> yes
[12:43] <DL7AD> does anybody know which ports dlfldigi uses?
[12:43] <eroomde> they do install calmness
[12:43] <eroomde> i think a lack of computers installs calmness
[12:43] <eroomde> i think i'm pretty close to giving up with the internet
[12:44] <mattbrejza> DL7AD: as in tcp port to output data?
[12:44] <mattbrejza> 7322 ircc
[12:44] <eroomde> i just want analog test equipment and pen and paper
[12:44] <eroomde> maybe my casio calculator
[12:44] <DL7AD> mattbrejza: every port it needs
[12:44] <GJ7DNI> which one i will look at info agn qrx
[12:44] <mattbrejza> needs?
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[12:46] <mfa298> I think the only thing it does internet wise is connect to some habhub servers over https
[12:46] <mfa298> DL7AD: ^^
[12:46] <GJ7DNI> it was no:A=035245 WITH-9
[12:46] <mfa298> and there's the local port it listens on if you want to interface with it (as mattbrejza already pointed out)
[12:47] <GJ7DNI> AT 17:52
[12:47] <DL7AD> mattbrejza mfa298 the problem is the ports are blocked at my university so they want to know which are used
[12:47] <mattbrejza> you cant access the internet at your uni?
[12:47] <GJ7DNI> 49.37N 0.07E
[12:47] <mattbrejza> (websites)
[12:47] <DL7AD> mattbrejza: yes i can. but dl-fldigi cant
[12:48] <mfa298> I'm pretty sure for uploading strings it's just https so should work if you can browse the web (unless it's also using some odd high port to talk to habhub)
[12:49] <mfa298> possibly look at the habhub-cpp-connector module (or whatever it's called) as I think that's what does the communications
[12:50] <DL7AD> dont care.... my university have to look theirselves, what shit they installed on their prox.... -.-
[12:50] <DL7AD> *proxy...
[12:50] <KT5TK> DL7AD: Use wireshark to check the ports: http://sourceforge.net/projects/wireshark/
[12:51] <DL7AD> hi thomas...
[12:51] <KT5TK> Hi Sven. It monitors all network traffic
[12:52] <DL7AD> yes i know this software.
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[12:53] <DL7AD> but i dont wanna investigate something, which my university can do as well :P
[12:53] <GJ7DNI> THIS IS OVER LE HAVRE BK
[12:53] <DL7AD> if they would not run this shit, it would work :P so they must find out theirselves...
[12:54] <mfa298> DL7AD: if you have to set a proxy for web browsing then you might have to persaude dl-fldigi to use it as well. or get the uni to put an excepton in for habhub.org
[12:54] <DL7AD> mfa298: i will tell them now ;)
[12:55] <DL7AD> okay cu
[12:55] <mattbrejza> if you open a browser, does it have a load of proxy settings put into it?
[12:59] <aadamson> KT5TK, was great to see US balloons again... what tracker did you fly on your pico - were they both pico's?
[13:00] <LeoBodnar> GJ7DNI: i think it was m0xer-9 / B-49
[13:02] <GJ7DNI> YES I THINK SO SUPPER MY FRIST ONE THANKS
[13:05] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, thanks for the contact info the gang at miniaviation are looking the what might be possible. As an aside I also got 3-4 quote/with questions
[13:05] <aadamson> back from an alibaba inquiry
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[13:05] <KT5TK> aadamson: The first one was a Pecan Pico 3 on a Qualaex foil balloon. The second was a Pecan Pico 5 on a small latex balloon. We've had a 100g latex and a 350g latex inside each other.
[13:05] <aadamson> even tho most over there say 500 mins, my experience is they will do 50 or 100 just because they are hungry for business
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[13:06] <aadamson> KT5TK, ah, cool... now I forget, is 5 your latest or was there a 6 in the works?
[13:08] <KT5TK> Pecan 5 was what DL7AD and I designed together. Pecan 6 is the one with the uBlox chip GPS, but it doesn't work yet.
[13:08] <aadamson> ah very good, I knew you had a couple in the works. I'm just working on software for mine at the moment
[13:09] <aadamson> KT5TK, I got tired of retyping so I just made a post about it - http://hab-ham.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=338
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[13:10] <KT5TK> The key error I had is that the small VCXO I used didn't work. I had to go back to my standard 5x7 VCXO to get a lock in the PLL of the Si4464
[13:11] <KT5TK> However Pecan 6 doesn't have a large pad for he VCXO
[13:11] <aadamson> oh, I used one from digikey on my first board.
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[13:12] <aadamson> KT5TK, this one works fine - http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/FVXO-HC53BR-27/631-1301-1-ND/2153958
[13:12] <aadamson> I used it with the 446x,
[13:12] <aadamson> I did use a capacitor divider on it's output to feed the si and I used Xin, not Xout
[13:12] <aadamson> it worked great
[13:14] <aadamson> hmm. I thought I had a pdf of the schematics...
[13:14] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK are you still feeding Si4464 through its ass?
[13:15] <KT5TK> Yes I do
[13:15] <KT5TK> That's he only way I could get it to work
[13:16] <aadamson> it works fine the right way
[13:16] <aadamson> Leo helped me get it right on both of my designs
[13:16] <aadamson> hang on I'll gen a schematic
[13:16] <aadamson> you have to get the level right or you can't use Xin
[13:17] <aadamson> KT5TK, here - basically your design with a couple of tweaks - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/STM-SIradio.pdf
[13:17] <aadamson> specifically using that small VCXO and Xin on the Radio
[13:17] <KT5TK> I think it very much depends on the VCXO that you use
[13:18] <aadamson> and there are 2 *secret handshake* software commands you need to use
[13:18] <aadamson> BTW, my new board doesn't use a VXCO, it uses the TI Digital PLL and that worked exactly the same
[13:18] <aadamson> using Xin
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[13:18] <aadamson> I'll find the reference to the secret commands
[13:18] <aadamson> Si finally documented it
[13:19] <aadamson> BTW, not sure that it really makes a diff as it worked with and without and my case
[13:20] <aadamson> http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/AN785.pdf
[13:20] <aadamson> see page... hmmm
[13:20] <aadamson> page 6
[13:20] <amell> if secret commands are documented, then they are not secret.
[13:20] <aadamson> hmm, they revised that document again recently
[13:21] <aadamson> amell, they were secret until I asked :), then they gave me in email, and a week later updated their documents ... lol
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[13:22] <aadamson> BTW, at least in my testing, the VCXO isn't as critical as the output level of it - note the second paragraph, that is the critical requirement
[13:22] <aadamson> on page 6
[13:23] <aadamson> I couldn't make Xin work until I met those requirements
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[13:23] <LeoBodnar> aadamson: you have prompted SiLabs to reduce spurii level to make compliance easier?
[13:23] <RB> is it possible to intercept data from satellites using the same method as receiving a HAB transmission
[13:23] <RB> as long as you can decrypt it
[13:23] <aadamson> oh, if I could figure out how to do that, I'd bottle and sell it and make lots o money
[13:24] <aadamson> lol
[13:24] <mattbrejza> you can get weather sats RB
[13:24] <mattbrejza> probably the most interesting
[13:24] <mattbrejza> its WFM though
[13:24] <mfa298> RB there's a range of sateite that send down data you can receive and decode
[13:24] <aadamson> RB, sure just use a SDR and tune away
[13:24] <Darkside> L-band stuff is fun
[13:24] <Darkside> make a small helical antenna and go look at L-band sat downlinks
[13:24] <RB> what do you get on L-band
[13:24] <Darkside> sooo much stuff up there
[13:24] <Darkside> all sorts of stuff
[13:24] <Darkside> Thuraya is an interesting system
[13:24] <Darkside> GSM in space
[13:25] <Darkside> well, GSM on geostationary sats
[13:25] <mfa298> RB Possibly worth looking up stuff about amsat (Amateur sateliites) and noaa (weather sats - or at least used to be)
[13:25] <Darkside> and you can sniff the downlinks
[13:25] <Darkside> http://gmr.osmocom.org/trac/
[13:26] <aadamson> most of the newer still functioning commercial systems are encrypted, but some are still not so while you might find lots o things to listen too, most you'll not be able to decypher
[13:26] <Darkside> yah
[13:26] <Darkside> a lot of it is not decodabl
[13:26] <Darkside> but its fun to see it all nonetheless
[13:26] <Darkside> and with thuraya you can decode the GMR control channel and see when people are making calls :-)
[13:26] <Darkside> and where they are located when making calls
[13:27] <Darkside> and who they are making calls to/from, as its all in teh clear
[13:27] <Darkside> >_>
[13:28] <RB> interesting
[13:28] <Darkside> tis good fun
[13:29] <Darkside> but yah, sniffing geostationary sat downlinks is a fun hobby :P
[13:32] <KT5TK> Darkside: Can you send something on the uplink to the thuraya uplink that triggers a response on the GMR control channel? (Even if it's just an error message)
[13:32] <Darkside> KT5TK: no idea
[13:32] <Darkside> i wouldnt have a suitable transmitter
[13:32] <eroomde> we can make one
[13:33] <Darkside> what would b way more fun is to find a geostationary transponder
[13:33] <KT5TK> That might be a kind of racking with just some ping
[13:33] <Darkside> and put signals in on the edges of the transponder filters
[13:33] <eroomde> wasn't there a recent amsat announcement about such a thing?
[13:33] <eroomde> that's not to say anyone should hold their breath
[13:33] <Darkside> yeah theres going to be a transponder going into geostationary orbit apparently
[13:33] <KT5TK> *tracking
[13:33] <Darkside> but im talking about commrcial sats
[13:34] <eroomde> there might some old military stuff
[13:34] <eroomde> they used to just be bent pipes
[13:34] <Darkside> where its basically a bent-pipe transponder, so you can upgrade the modulation scheme as you need
[13:34] <eroomde> my old prof developed spread spectrum stuff back in the 70s to hide uk armed forces signals in US transponder sats
[13:34] <Darkside> so you just squze in a SSB signal on the edge of it
[13:34] <eroomde> as a backup to uk sats, and because the US had more
[13:35] <Darkside> haha nice
[13:36] <Darkside> anyway, an amateur sat in molinya orbit would be nice
[13:37] <Darkside> molniya*
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[13:37] <mikestir-work> there was some article knocking about the other day about brazilian pirate sstv on mil sats
[13:37] <gonzo_> there are lots of brazilian and portugese pirates using the mil sats
[13:37] <gonzo_> snap
[13:38] <gonzo_> some of them are so brazen, or stupid, that they leave their AR callsigns in the frames
[13:38] <Darkside> i think AO-7 was in a molniya orbit..
[13:39] <Darkside> wait, no
[13:39] <gonzo_> AO40 was close to one
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[13:40] <Darkside> yeah reading the article on it now
[13:40] <gonzo_> could sit and listen to au amateurs chattin in ssb for hours, on 2.4GHz. Doppler was fun though
[13:41] <gonzo_> the mil sat pirates are mopstly using varactor doublers from 2mtr rigs. A few have built transverters
[13:42] <gonzo_> you can also nhear some inadvertant retransmissions of mil ATC and cordless phones on the transponders
[13:42] <gonzo_> very occasionally some clear fm channel chacks. Whioch arte bprobably cadets/kids using old handed down kit
[13:43] <gonzo_> (only my guess)
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[13:49] <aadamson> so this will get Laurenceb__ out of the woodwork... I think we need a small fleet of multirotors
[13:49] <aadamson> each with an aprs digi on them.
[13:50] <Laurenceb__> lol
[13:50] <aadamson> software that would allow each to talk to one another
[13:50] <aadamson> so you send them all up when you are looking for a recovery
[13:50] <aadamson> and they will *doppler* into where it is and beacon for you to find it
[13:50] <aadamson> :)
[13:50] <aadamson> probably patentable concept there actually :)
[13:51] <RB> using SDR and a bog standard antenna used for picking up tv signals, am i likely to find anything of interest? ie plug the dongle into the wall socket in my house
[13:51] <aadamson> doppler - loose definition, they will tell one another how well they are hearing and triangulate to the target
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[13:53] <aadamson> this idea came about with a recent recovery that has aprs on board and the recovery was such that it couldn't talk to any distant digi's it needed a helper digi on a multiroter
[13:53] <aadamson> rotor
[13:54] <aadamson> maybe that's just called AWACS :)...
[13:54] <Laurenceb__> how can i grep for any array indexed with a variable in c ?
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[13:56] <nats`> grep ?
[13:56] <nats`> you loop over it
[13:56] <nats`> or if sorted you do some search algo
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[13:58] <mikestir-work> Laurenceb__: you mean in any file?
[13:58] <Laurenceb__> yes
[13:58] <eroomde> grep 'array[[a-z]*]' yourmum.c
[13:58] <eroomde> ?
[13:58] <eroomde> assuming the variable name is all lowercase
[13:58] <Laurenceb__> thanks eroomde
[13:58] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[13:59] <mikestir-work> or grep -HR "[var]"
[14:00] <mikestir-work> that will tell recurse subdirectories and tell you the filename if it gets a hit
[14:00] <mikestir-work> -tell
[14:00] <Laurenceb__> hmm thats not quite working
[14:01] <Laurenceb__> grep -r '[[a-z]*]' *.c
[14:01] <Laurenceb__> is sometimes finding trailing ] with a numerical index
[14:02] <eroomde> can you paste an example of a false positive
[14:02] <Laurenceb__> print_string[0]=0x00;
[14:03] <mikestir-work> [a-z]+ maybe instead of [a-z]*
[14:03] <mikestir-work> to force at least 1 letter
[14:03] <mfa298> RB thats probably not going to work too well for satellites (and potentially not that good for HAB's either) TV antennas are directional towards the tv transmitter and usually have pretty low quality cable on them.
[14:04] <Laurenceb__> with + it finds nothing
[14:04] <adamgreig> you probably need \[ \]
[14:04] <adamgreig> around the outer []s
[14:05] <mikestir-work> try it with the -E switch
[14:05] <eroomde> hmmm, my version here doesn't pick up on your flase positive
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[14:06] <Laurenceb__> maybe i need egrep or something
[14:06] <eroomde> i suspect you don't
[14:07] <eroomde> this is not a Hard Problem
[14:07] <Laurenceb__> version 2.5.4 of GNU Grep
[14:08] <eroomde> grep '\[[a-z]*\]' yourmum.c
[14:08] <eroomde> use the \ if you don't know the name of the array
[14:08] <Laurenceb__> aha
[14:08] <Laurenceb__> thats working nicely, thanks
[14:09] Action: Laurenceb__ is searching for causes of hard faults
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> i have a bug that occurs once every ten hours or so
[14:09] <eroomde> embedded?
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> yes
[14:09] <eroomde> that's annoying
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> cortex m4
[14:09] <eroomde> no coredumps
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> yes
[14:10] <Laurenceb__> i accidentally deleted it...
[14:10] <mikestir-work> Laurenceb__: have you got a hard fault handler?
[14:10] <Laurenceb__> yes
[14:10] <eroomde> staic analysis in general is an awesome thing for attacking C codebases
[14:10] <Laurenceb__> it does a coredump
[14:10] <Laurenceb__> it did....
[14:10] <eroomde> people should do more of it
[14:10] <Laurenceb__> i eyeballed it and there was a hardfault due to something accessing ram past the top of stack
[14:11] <Laurenceb__> then i overwrote the file by accident :-S
[14:11] <Laurenceb__> now i have to wait up to a day.. or find it in the code
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[14:23] <malgar> will be there launches this weekend?
[14:24] <UpuWork> http://www.ask8ball.net/
[14:33] <amell> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/2014/march/two_geostationary_ham_radio_transponders.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+AmateurRadioNews+(Southgate+Amateur+Radio+News)#.U2uVuV6cAXw
[14:34] <amell> btw, i would not be surprised if B-47 came to the attention of NORAD.
[14:35] <DL1SGP_> "Hi Guyz its B-47, can I haz airpace passage" ?
[14:35] <amell> Denied
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[14:35] <eroomde> in as much as it's metalic and they have radar?
[14:36] <amell> its a threat to the United States, like everything else.
[14:36] <amell> has a signature equivalent to some secret russian stealth bomber
[14:36] <eroomde> i suspect you underestimate the number of mylar party balloons trapped in high altitude winds
[14:37] <amell> hmm, you think theres a few? :)
[14:37] <eroomde> yes many
[14:37] Action: DL1SGP_ would think there is plenty
[14:37] <amell> most are let off fully inflated. surely theyll pop before float
[14:38] <fsphil> could leak through the valve
[14:38] <fsphil> which could seal itself again once the pressure difference drops off
[14:39] <fsphil> wonder if there could be a way of detecting them
[14:39] Action: DL1SGP_ lately found a bunch of wedding party foils scattered on an area of 2km² unfortunately no cards so no clue on origin
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[14:42] <gonzo_> when I was chasing my first foil balloon, I found another in a bush, very near mine
[14:43] <gonzo_> was confused to know where the payload was, till I saw the 'brithday girl' on the printed side
[14:43] <gonzo_> (must have been a dyslexsic child)
[14:43] <eroomde> heh, i just got an email about a talk on batc that fergus and i gave at amsat 2008
[14:43] <eroomde> i had no idea it was on there
[14:43] <eroomde> i seem so enthusiastic
[14:44] <gonzo_> that was probably where I first heard of HAB
[14:44] <mattbrejza> seems hysplit can use archived data too
[14:44] <eroomde> gonzo_: orly?
[14:44] <eroomde> sorry about that, then
[14:45] <gonzo_> hehe, a trouble shared etc....
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[14:47] <mattbrejza> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/197445_trj001.gif
[14:50] <aadamson> oh, don't you so hate the bugs you create when you are trying to outsmart the smarts.... duh...
[14:50] <eroomde> there's a quote about that
[14:51] <eroomde> "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
[14:51] <aadamson> there needs to be... so I decided I can be smart and turn off the gps before I turn on the transmitter... because I go to sleep right after and wakeup will turn everything back on..
[14:51] <eroomde> - Kernighan
[14:52] <aadamson> duh, but what happens when an edge condition occurs and you didn't go to sleep.... duh
[14:52] <mattbrejza> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/197577_trj001.gif
[14:52] <eroomde> aadamson: basically, avoid state
[14:52] <eroomde> just have everything be asynchronous and independant of the state of other stuff
[14:52] <eroomde> state kills
[14:52] <aadamson> yep, me thinks I'm going to create one more timer and do exactly that
[14:52] <eroomde> also something something haskell
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[14:54] <jiffe98> b47 should be well past the alaskan leg by now
[14:54] <eroomde> should
[14:54] <fsphil> maybe
[14:54] <mattbrejza> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/197445_trj001.gif http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/197577_trj001.gif
[14:55] <mattbrejza> so might hit mainland us on saturday
[14:55] <mattbrejza> assuming i worked hysplit correctly
[14:56] <fsphil> LeoBodnar may have to use a different frequency for the next one. just in case
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[14:58] <jiffe98> I still show it hitting mainland tomorrow afternoon http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/197790_trj001.gif
[14:58] <aadamson> ok, that was actually easier to fix than I first thought...
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[14:59] <jiffe98> gfsg vs gdas?
[14:59] <g0pai_ian> Hello Sean
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[15:01] <g0pai_ian> Hello Sean
[15:01] <SeanHAB> hello
[15:01] <mattbrejza> dunno, i clicked on the archive link at the first screen and it gave gdas
[15:01] <mattbrejza> either way, heading torwards the mainland if still alive
[15:01] <mattbrejza> will find out by the weekend
[15:01] <aadamson> whats this *if* stuff? ... lol
[15:01] <mattbrejza> (sun
[15:01] <mattbrejza> (sunday)
[15:03] <W7KKE> Will keep listening for B47 through the weekend from Oregon
[15:05] <eroomde> i wonder if it's habster enough for Portland
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[15:13] <amell> W7KKE: cool. do you have any contacts in washington/oregon that can also listen out?
[15:16] <W7KKE> I'll put the word out on the regional VHF/UHF mailing list
[15:16] <amell> there might be someone out on a ship or oil rig. never know
[15:17] <amell> hopefully the CNSP people are on the mailing list too :) :)
[15:21] <g0pai_ian> Sorry about the noise back at 15:48/16:00 just getting #1 grandson (13) enthused about HAB generally. He lives near Madrid.
[15:22] <g0pai_ian> LeoBodnar had become instant inspiration with B-47
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[15:32] <amell> Hmm! Hobby DNA replicator available - http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/openpcr-kit-1173.html
[15:34] <W7KKE> OK. I've posted an email to the Pacfic NW weak signals group regarding B47, freq, and trajectory. Hopefully it will generate some interest.
[15:36] <eroomde> PCR has been possible at home for ages
[15:36] <eroomde> but i suppose you stick 'open' infront of it and maybe use an arduino
[15:36] <eroomde> voila, hackaday
[15:36] <mattbrejza> +laser cut wooden box
[15:37] <mattbrejza> fairly sure its a common gcse level biology thing too
[15:37] <eroomde> or something that has been made on a mill since the 50s quite normally but this time made super badly with a 3d printer
[15:37] <eroomde> get an official twitter account
[15:37] <eroomde> sychophantically retweet those giving you coverage
[15:37] <eroomde> live the dream
[15:38] <mfa298> "It is about as complicated to build as IKEA furniture and full and detailed instructions are available" - does that mean at least one vital part is missing from the box as well ?
[15:39] <RB> more likely a level biology but theres no reason why gcse students couldnt do it - theres more of them though so it costs more
[15:41] <jiffe98> need to get satellite tracking on these things
[15:42] <eroomde> PCR kits?
[15:42] <jiffe98> long distance balloons :)
[15:42] <eroomde> sattelite tracking is quite doable for a normal hab now
[15:42] <eroomde> they hard thing is that picos are built to a very low mass
[15:43] <jiffe98> maybe strip out one of those SPOT traces
[15:43] <eroomde> yes
[15:43] <mfa298> there's been a few flights with rockblock modems on them although mostly those with El Reg's wallet behind them to pay the bills.
[15:43] <eroomde> you'll then go from being 12x too heavy to 6x too heavy
[15:44] <mfa298> jiffe98: if you can get a satellite modem down to <20g go for it.
[15:45] <eroomde> i think the whole payload wants to be <20g
[15:45] <eroomde> batteries, gps, conventional radio and your sattelite tracker
[15:46] <eroomde> not that one of the two AA batteries required by the spot pays more than the entire payload on B47, iirc
[15:46] <eroomde> note that*
[15:46] <eroomde> weighs more*
[15:46] <mfa298> I was working on the principle that you'de replace the payload with the modem although yes that should include batteries, gps etc in the 20g
[15:47] <Laurenceb__> drop GM bacteria and track the spread of the infection?
[15:48] <mfa298> WHO or war crimes might have something to say about that.
[15:50] <superkuh> Reminds me of http://www.n55.dk/manuals/n55rocketsystem/n55rocketsystem.html
[15:51] <chrisstubbs> Does G4UVJ ring any bells?
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[15:56] <eroomde> superkuh: i recognise you
[15:57] <superkuh> Okay. I get around.
[15:58] <amell> superkuh: what are you smoking
[16:00] <eroomde> i think from some time ago
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[16:03] <Laurenceb__> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27311292
[16:03] <Laurenceb__> rofl
[16:04] <Laurenceb__> <mfa298> your trollometer is failing today
[16:05] <nats`> Laurenceb__ better vaporising silicon in your nose :D
[16:05] Action: mfa298 checks date
[16:05] <mfa298> looks like they're a bit late for april fools
[16:06] <eroomde> i checked the date too
[16:06] <eroomde> what guff
[16:08] <mfa298> although sounds about right for a professor or marketing bod. See what interesting key phrases we can get in there without really thinking through the implications..
[16:13] <eroomde> i can just imagine a quadcopter flying into a fallout environment
[16:14] <eroomde> then extruding goo over one pebble at a time
[16:14] <eroomde> with that kind of efficiency you could move all the radioactive stuff from one radioactive place to another soon-to-be-radioactive place in, what, 25,000 years?
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[16:15] <mfa298> and drop a few on route creating a few other radio active places
[16:16] <Laurenceb__> https://github.com/robrix/Postmodern-Programming/blob/master/Postmodern%20Programming.md
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[16:47] <Guest38961> How to calculate the length of the rope between payload to balloon?
[16:49] <arko> um
[16:49] <eroomde> better get that coffee arko
[16:49] <arko> you can make it as short or as long as you like, there's no real 'calculation involved', however you can be clever about it
[16:49] <arko> eroomde: haha
[16:50] <eroomde> Guest38961: forget anything you might be thinking about with physics and so on
[16:50] <eroomde> just humour me
[16:50] <eroomde> how long would you like the distance to be, in your heart of hearts?
[16:53] <eroomde> don't look too deep into your heart though
[16:53] <eroomde> i don't have all day
[16:54] <LazyLeopard> ;)
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[17:01] <eroomde> poor guy
[17:01] <eroomde> i wish people would stop panicing with balloons
[17:01] <eroomde> like thers a Right Answer to trivial problems and you must do it the Right Way else everything will explode
[17:08] <W7KKE> Am I correct in assuming B47 only transmits while in sunlight?
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[17:08] <mattbrejza> i think it just transmits more offen in sunlight
[17:09] <mattbrejza> it does have a battery on it
[17:09] <mattbrejza> rechargable
[17:09] <W7KKE> Thanks
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[17:16] <amell> how does B-47 know its daytime? is it actually linking transmission frequency to Vsolar?
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[17:25] <aadamson> amell, probably, it has a voltage sensor on the PV cell so it knows when sun light hits the cell
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[17:37] <W7KKE> Does B-47 have 144.8 FM APRS in addition to 434.5 Contestia?
[17:39] <mattbrejza> it changes aprs frequency, but yea
[17:39] <W7KKE> OK. Will listen both 144.8 & 434.5 for the next couple of days.
[17:40] <mattbrejza> isnt US APRS something different?
[17:40] <mattbrejza> 144.39?
[17:40] <kc2pit> 144.39, yeah.
[17:41] <W7KKE> It's 144.39 in North America, but I suspect the balloon doesn't know that.
[17:41] <eroomde> yes
[17:41] <mattbrejza> it does know, it changed for china and japan
[17:41] <eroomde> Leo put some intelligence into it
[17:41] <W7KKE> Neat!
[17:41] <eroomde> geographically
[17:41] <eroomde> geofencing is all the rage
[17:42] <Willdude123> Is the code on github?
[17:43] <eroomde> i don't believe so
[17:43] <mattbrejza> its assembler so it probably wont help anyone if it is
[17:43] <eroomde> i'm not sure leo has much time for that kind of thing
[17:43] <eroomde> also i think it's written in assembly
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[17:44] <Willdude123> eroomde, why is it? Is it a custom chip?
[17:44] <eroomde> no
[17:44] <eroomde> it's just a normal pic
[17:44] <eroomde> i think he just prefers assembler
[17:44] <eroomde> it has a number of advantages
[17:44] <mattbrejza> i think leo is part of the group of people who started using PICs when the c compiler was super shit
[17:44] <mfa298> some people prefer writing assembly. in the same way some people prefer ruby/perl instead of python
[17:44] <eroomde> and experienced assembler programmer can dop all sorts of kung-phu that you might find harder to do in C
[17:45] <Willdude123> Someone said to me the other day: "I don't like C, it's too low"
[17:45] <eroomde> well, if you're into assembly, it's too high
[17:45] <mattbrejza> what sort of thing would they be using it to program
[17:46] <mattbrejza> ?
[17:46] <eroomde> i do think learning a microcontroller in assembly is a very useful and educational thing
[17:46] <eroomde> even if you only treat it as a stepping stone to C
[17:46] <eroomde> you'll learn all the stuff that C assumes but can seem arbitrary if you jump straight to C
[17:46] <mfa298> compared to things like python C is a low level language. The key thing to remember is that different languages give you different benefits but no single language gives you all the benefits
[17:46] <eroomde> like stacks and pushing and popping
[17:46] <eroomde> and pointers make much more sense
[17:46] <Willdude123> mattbrejza, no idea
[17:47] <eroomde> and interrupt service routines seem a bit like bodgy magic in C
[17:47] <eroomde> the way they're done
[17:47] <Willdude123> And if you're into PHP, you're too high
[17:48] <mikestir> eroomde: cortex solves the C ISR problem nicely though - the hardware stacks the caller-saved registers for you, so you can use a normal C function.
[17:48] <eroomde> yes indeed
[17:48] <aadamson> mikestir, any progress on your hardware/software?
[17:48] <aadamson> progress = update?
[17:49] <eroomde> but that makes sense if you understand that it does that automatically
[17:49] <eroomde> and you know what a stack is
[17:49] <eroomde> if you're literally starting out, all of this is opaque to you
[17:49] <aadamson> usually it's blonde, with curves - stacks that is right?
[17:49] <aadamson> oh wait, that would be stacked!
[17:49] <aadamson> lol
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[17:49] <mikestir> aadamson: most of the parts arrived today so I might get some hardware on the go later
[17:49] <mikestir> mouser order coming tomorrow with the RF bits
[17:49] <aadamson> mikestir, AWESOME!
[17:50] <aadamson> I've got a handful of small things coming from mouser as well, the new nucleo F3 board was out and at 9.13 (US) why not
[17:50] <aadamson> sides I *like* the F3
[17:51] <aadamson> bit of a test... 1 AA and all binary aprs - http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FW7QO-6&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[17:51] <aadamson> including altitude
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[17:51] <aadamson> hanging in my backyard from a wire antenna :)
[17:51] <eroomde> mikestir: i do like that it does that though
[17:51] <eroomde> it's a lovely architecture
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[17:51] <eroomde> i think coretex m0 would be a great target for an assembly tutorial
[17:52] <aadamson> m0+ :)
[17:52] <eroomde> it's the msallest amount of thumb instructions, and then you can move up into bigger corex's and weep with joy at having divide instructions and stuff
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[17:52] <eroomde> having written your own division macros on the m0
[17:52] <aadamson> did you all see that Silabs finally pulled together their ARM line
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[17:52] <eroomde> there's a tutorial to be written here, methinks
[17:52] <aadamson> nice offerings and supposedly the price will be *right*
[17:53] <eroomde> well the price is right!
[17:53] <eroomde> james gave me an lpc810 the other weekend
[17:53] <eroomde> 69p in single units
[17:53] <eroomde> dip8
[17:53] <eroomde> there's your baby
[17:53] <eroomde> 69p = about $1 on the nose
[17:54] <aadamson> eroomde, yea that's getting down right respectable
[17:54] <aadamson> with so many doing the ARM's, the price competition has got to start taking it's effect
[17:54] <eroomde> 2 uarts!
[17:54] <aadamson> good for consumers
[17:54] <eroomde> what a happy thing
[17:54] <eroomde> hmm
[17:55] <aadamson> more uarts the better, and ADC's, and DMA, etc, etc, etc. :)
[17:55] <LeoBodnar> BGA world suddenlywoke up to *real* needs?
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[17:55] <eroomde> and then the course would gradually introduce c
[17:55] <eroomde> eg through string parsing a gps which could be tedious in assembly
[17:55] <eroomde> and you can explain things like the eabi that way
[17:55] <aadamson> unless you are LeoBodnar :)
[17:56] <eroomde> and linker scripts
[17:56] <eroomde> and makefiles
[17:56] <eroomde> yes
[17:56] <eroomde> this could be a nice thing
[17:56] <aadamson> you know that's the biggest issue I see... linker scripts...
[17:56] <eroomde> writing a simple linker script is easy
[17:56] <aadamson> but the guys that pulled together the plugin for eclipse have done a really nice job of doing that *IMHO*
[17:56] <eroomde> they're often really complicated things fully of risidual copy-pastes
[17:57] <aadamson> and they removed the need for the .S file all together it's all there in C for the platforms they support
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[17:57] <eroomde> but really, for von neuman architecture, you just need 'flash starts here, ram starts here, stack starts here'
[17:57] <aadamson> woah, new record for me with a board hanging in the air... MAX 7C at 10 sats
[17:58] <aadamson> and this is using a shut off the GPS when in STOP mode :)
[17:58] <aadamson> we'll see if it hangs together
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[17:58] <aadamson> scratch that 11 sats! :)
[18:00] <aadamson> one little thing that is nice to know on the ARMS... where the IRQ vectors are, and where the chip parameters are (both somewhere in the address space)
[18:00] <aadamson> course that might be micros 303 instead of micros 101
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[18:04] <eroomde> it's a difficult one to balance
[18:04] <eroomde> how much of the architecture of the core you look at
[18:04] <eroomde> in a tutorial you'd probably want a magic wrapper over an assembler to insert the initial booilerplate
[18:04] <eroomde> so you could start just with blinking an LED
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[18:05] <eroomde> but knowing how to use interrupts properly as a general principle would be mandatory-necessary in a microcontroller 101 course
[18:05] <eroomde> one of the big failings of arduino-land, for me, is that they hide a lot of that from you and so you never actually get as far as usuing a microcontroller properly
[18:05] <eroomde> or understanding that it's all about setting registers
[18:06] <eroomde> and the thing is, none of that is conceptyually that difficult and if you start with it you get the right mental model to solve any sebsequent problem
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[18:06] <aadamson> that's another reason I like the eclipse plug in, you say you want a new project and it uses this chip, and you want a template and poof you get a buildable *blinker*
[18:06] <eroomde> whereas with arduino users you often get them coming on here saying 'this library doesn't work with this other library, i foudn them both on the internet'
[18:06] <eroomde> and you say something like 'that's because they both use TIMER2'
[18:06] <aadamson> unfortunately, it doesn't support all the ARM manufactures however
[18:06] <eroomde> and they say 'what's a TIMER?'
[18:06] <eroomde> and they are basically totally stuck
[18:07] <aadamson> - http://gnuarmeclipse.livius.net/blog/ for reference
[18:07] <eroomde> literally no idea how a microcontroller actually works
[18:07] <aadamson> yeah, I'll give it arduino for that... it was *brain dead* easy
[18:07] <eroomde> whereas if you start with registers from the get-go, you completely and totally understand exactly what the problem is and how to fix it
[18:07] <aadamson> you know I'm torn there.
[18:08] <eroomde> because the actual mental model of these things, as moving stuff around registers, is really simple
[18:08] <eroomde> not necessarily easy, but simple
[18:08] <eroomde> as opposed to complex
[18:08] <aadamson> I live in the standard peripheral library mostly and that *abstracts* all those registers so I don't have to deal with them
[18:08] <eroomde> like, it might be harder to whip up something quick in assembly
[18:08] <eroomde> but the model of the controller, and therefore the design of the software to do it, is much simpler
[18:08] <eroomde> and to me, that's where you want to start
[18:09] <aadamson> yea I understand the *need to know* part.
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[18:10] <LeoBodnar> unless you study basic elctronics and at least half a dozen logic gates it's difficult to understand why MCUs came to be altogether
[18:11] <eroomde> well yes, there are always turtles below
[18:11] <LeoBodnar> so blinking an LED a solution for non-existent problem
[18:11] <eroomde> but in terms of getting a mental model of the thing you're using such that it doesn't cause you programming mysteries and surprises, i'm happy to start with assembly and not go lower :)
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[18:11] <kc2pit> Okay, so silicon's got these four valence electrons, right?
[18:12] <eroomde> exactly
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[18:13] <LeoBodnar> much better than "how do i make doge's overcoat buttons flash?"
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[18:13] <LeoBodnar> do i need Due for that?
[18:15] <eroomde> so, I have spoken over 1000000 words on this channel now, according to zeusbot, which i think is enough irc for this lifetime, at least for now, so i'm off
[18:15] <eroomde> thanks for all the fish
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[18:20] <x-f> :/
[18:22] <aadamson> ah blinky has one purpose... new hardware platform once electrically checked out... *will it blink and LED* :)
[18:22] <aadamson> I seem to do that all the time first
[18:23] <aadamson> hmm "will it blink *and* LED"... but be some new kind of dance or something... duh
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[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:40] <mikestir> aadamson: a proper led blinky also serves another purpose - that you can get a hardware timer to work and that it runs at the frequency you were expecting!
[18:41] <aadamson> yes, exactly... I do that all the time!
[18:41] <mikestir> so spinning 3 million times doesn't count :)
[18:41] <myself> Yeah, it's really easy to notice if a blinky is running at 2x or 8x the expected speed ...
[18:43] <aadamson> note to self, don't name a #define and an enum element the same thing... sheesh... duh
[18:43] <nats`> aadamson you should use the foo bar notation all along your code
[18:43] <nats`> it makes your life spicy :)
[18:44] <aadamson> yeah I do that mostly, but unfortunately, not with Defines and enum elements... time to change that I suppose
[18:44] <nats`> https://www.thc.org/root/phun/unmaintain.html
[18:44] <nats`> just for you :)
[18:44] <nats`> typedef is better than define when you can
[18:46] <aadamson> yeah I try to sue those as well... problem with a new platform an v.01 code... it's got more *defines for testing* in it than code I think :)
[18:46] <aadamson> I can built it anyway I want to test elements... :)
[18:46] <aadamson> or not
[18:46] <aadamson> that and astyle is my friend :)...
[18:47] <nats`> Reuse Names
[18:47] <nats`> Wherever the rules of the language permit, give classes, constructors, methods, member variables, parameters and local variables the same names. For extra points, reuse local variable names inside {} blocks. The goal is to force the maintenance programmer to carefully examine the scope of every instance. In particular, in Java, make ordinary methods masquerade as constructors.
[18:47] <nats`> that one is genius
[18:47] <nats`> to be honnest that's the best one
[18:48] <nats`> it can even lead a dynamic tool to error
[18:48] <nats`> :D
[18:48] <aadamson> OMG, you'd make my head hurt
[18:49] <myself> oh, wow
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[18:49] <aadamson> ok, who ever said that these MAX gps's don't work... I'm not up to 12 sats in and outside condition beacon every 2 minutes
[18:50] <aadamson> wooo hooo
[18:50] <aadamson> and my backyard is NOT CLEAR OF TREES and big ones at that
[18:50] <aadamson> not = now
[18:52] <mikestir> nats`: the one about having header files do something different depending on how many times they've been included is genius
[18:53] <myself> aadamson: The first Max-6q I fired up, I hadn't even unpacked the antenna yet, so I soldered a piece of wire onto the trace and trimmed it to about twice the length of a wifi quarterwave I remembered making in 1999. Figuring that'd be close enough to GPS wavelength...
[18:53] <mikestir> http://www.osnews.com/images/comics/wtfm.jpg
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[18:53] <myself> Damn thing got 6 satellites and a 3d position in under a minute, sitting on a workbench indoors with essentially a paperclip for an antenna.
[18:53] <aadamson> myself, yeah the Q's are easy, it seems the C's are a bit harder to get right
[18:53] <nats`> mikestir too complicated check this one :) Extended ASCII
[18:53] <nats`> Extended ASCII characters are perfectly valid as variable names, including ß, Ð, and ñ characters. They are almost impossible to type without copying/pasting in a simple text editor.
[18:53] <aadamson> at least that is what most say
[18:54] <nats`> easy to implement with a simple parser
[18:54] <nats`> and makes life of other pinafull :D
[18:54] <mikestir> I'm planning on using a quarter wave bit of wire for my gps antenna
[18:54] <myself> I wonder what's different about the c's RF stage. I doubt.
[18:54] <myself> Aloft, a bit of wire is probably plenty of antenna. :) You're away from noise and obstructions..
[18:54] <mikestir> I figured it probably works better than those little ceramic ones because it's got a larger aperture, and the ceramic ones are linearly polarised as well
[18:55] <myself> The nice thing you get from the ceramic is that it's narrowband, and acts as a pre-filter.
[18:55] Nick change: DL1SGP_ -> swl_felid
[18:55] <mikestir> hmmm true. will see how it works
[18:56] <nats`> myself the bad things is it detunes violently following the layout and the distance from solid mass
[18:56] <nats`> ....
[18:56] Nick change: swl_felid -> DL1SGP
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[18:56] <nats`> you can easily drift a ceramic chip antenna by 10MHz just by changing the pcb layout
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[18:58] <myself> whereas if you mis-trim a quarterwave, it's still not that effective so you've neither gained nor lost much
[18:59] <nats`> yep but you desolder it
[18:59] <nats`> remake on and play again
[18:59] <nats`> you'll rarely respin a pcb as quick as a 1/4 wire
[19:03] <LeoBodnar> mikestir: B-s have been on 1/4 waves for quite awhile now. 1st arctic trip had 14 sats over Norway.
[19:04] <mikestir> yeah I thought I remembered you saying that
[19:05] <mikestir> there was a discussion about it around the time I was laying my board out, and I was toying with the idea anyway so I just took the ceramic one off
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[19:42] <aadamson> aren't some of the ceramics little wound helicals? I can't remember where I saw that... hmmm
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[20:05] <snelly> hi
[20:05] <snelly> have any of you ever used one of these Li-SO2 cells to power a payload?
[20:05] <snelly> http://www.microbattery.com/NATO-stock-6135-01-090-5363
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[20:07] <snelly> They seem perfect but I can't find a holder for them anywhere. I think I would have to construct a holder that would let me put a few series-pairs of them in parallel
[20:08] <mfa298> I can't see much in terms of useful specs on that page
[20:09] <myself> yeah, I can't assess perfection with no specs :P
[20:09] <myself> but, there's always the universal connector..
[20:09] <myself> 60/40 and a hot iron ;)
[20:09] <mfa298> few more specs on http://www.tnrbattery.com/ba-5567-u-battery-saft-lithium-nato-6135-01-090-5363/
[20:10] <mfa298> I think the weight/charge ratio is better with the Entergizer Lithium Ultimates most people use.
[20:13] <mfa298> Energizer AA (L91) 1.5V, 3Ah 14.5g. Those ones 3V, 1Ah, 20g.
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[20:16] <mfa298> so I think the Energizer wins out plus it's in a standard shape so easy to find things to mount it and it looks to be cheaper
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> And it works well at low temp
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> The Li-SO2 cells are great
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> But
[20:20] <snelly> so these military battereies are available cheaply and in quantity on eBay
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> At very low draw at room temps only
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> At very low temperature, they are extremely limited in the current you can draw
[20:20] <snelly> hmmm
[20:20] <snelly> I need to power a BeagleBone Black
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> - to the point that for 'short' flights - 100h say - you can't discharge them that fast
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> More relevantly.
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> Unless it's a floater, it's hard to get flights over 6h or so
[20:21] <snelly> ~300-400mA
[20:21] <snelly> not a floater. just a weather balloon
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> Energiser lithium is probably a reasonable plan
[20:21] <snelly> Need something that can get me 500mA for ~5-6 h
[20:21] <snelly> do those do okay in the cold?
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[20:22] <snelly> oh, sorry:
[20:22] <snelly> 20:10 < mfa298> I think the weight/charge ratio is better with the Entergizer Lithium Ultimates most people use.
[20:22] <snelly> these are the generic Energizer Lithium Ultimates that I can buy at the local big box store?
[20:23] <snelly> dang, that's awesome. and easy
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> yes
[20:23] <snelly> are you guys putting them in battery holders or soldering them together?
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> you want an efficient SMPS, and a stack of energiser lithiums.
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[20:25] <SpeedEvil> If they are say 3Ah (I forget the voltage) - they will be about 4-5Wh each. You need 2.5W for 6h. Call it 4 cells or so. 5 is probably easier electrically
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> Then a SMPS buck converter to go from that to 5V
[20:25] <snelly> I have a I have a little buck converter that does 5V
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure as to connections - soldering is generally something to be extremely wary of
[20:25] <SpeedEvil> One thing to check - what's the input voltage minimum
[20:27] <snelly> I'm trying to find one of my little converters...can't remember the company that made them
[20:28] <snelly> this one: http://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/de-swadj
[20:29] <snelly> 3-30V input
[20:29] <snelly> 1.25 - 13V output
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> Right. Now what's the minimum input voltage at 5V output.
[20:29] <snelly> also have a few of thse: http://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/de-sw050
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> It will be somewhat over 5V
[20:30] <snelly> Vin + 1.3V
[20:30] <snelly> err
[20:30] <snelly> Vout + 1.3V
[20:30] <snelly> so I will do maybe 5 AA in series?
[20:30] <snelly> or 6..
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Work out what the minimum discharge voltage of the batteries is
[20:31] <mfa298> I think a lot of people have soldered them but you need to be careful. Battery holders may be ok it it's a good one. but you don't want the batteries breaking contact if the payload gets knocked
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> Also - Vout+1.3 may assume maximum output current - it might go down to 1.0 at quarter load say
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> I have had good experiences soldering batteries.
[20:32] <snelly> mfa298: I figured I would get something from Mouser (no crappy RadioShack) and tape everything down
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> Cleanliness is next to godliness.
[20:32] <mfa298> snelly: these are the ones we mean http://www.energizer.com/batteries/performance-lithium/ultimate-lithium/Pages/aa.aspx you may find not every where sells them.
[20:32] <SpeedEvil> First wash your hands.
[20:32] <mfa298> there's also a datasheet at http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[20:33] <snelly> I'm a decent solderer....I just didn't want them to esssplode
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> Now, taking a clean bit of very fine sandpaper, abrade the end of the cell. Smear the lightest coat of flux on the end of the cell. With a hoof-tip bit on a soldering iron - and the iron tip held horizontal, build up a large blob of solder rapidly on the tip, and then touch the cell to the iron - holding it vertically with the iron stationary
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[20:34] <mfa298> in general I think the advice is make sure their clean and ready to solder. Then be quick doing the soldering (probably tin first let it cool then add pre-tinned wire)
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> The cell should be touching for well under half a second, and you should be able to touch the cell immediately afterwards with your bare hands on the actual solder joint
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[20:34] <SpeedEvil> Then repeat the process after it's cooled fully with a tinned wire held to the battery
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> A hot iron works best for this.
[20:35] <snelly> tinned wire? not a piece of that flat connector stuff that's used in the battery holders?
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> That's made for spot welding
[20:35] <snelly> ahh
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> it's not very solderable
[20:35] <snelly> i looked at a spot welder. only $3300
[20:35] <snelly> "only"
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> naah - cheapr than that
[20:36] <snelly> I have a nice iron. I'll just use some marine-grade ancor wire
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Micro-computer-Battery-Spot-Welder-Welding-Machine-Recharge-Charging-Foot-Pedal-/321213899928?pt=BI_Welders&hash=item4ac9d72498
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> you do not want thick wire - this will lead to too mcuh heat going into the cell
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> I used wire-wrap wire - and it worked really well
[20:37] <snelly> that welder is hilarious. So China. Many welding.
[20:37] <snelly> but that's a great deal if it works
[20:37] <snelly> SpeedEvil: sounds good. Are you bundling the batteries and shrink-wrapping?
[20:38] <snelly> figured I would use some hot glue to put the batterys in a bundle, then solder, then shrinkwrap
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> I've not done this for some time - I actually just duct taped them together
[20:38] <snelly> makes sense. one-time-use only
[20:39] <snelly> now to find me a good deal on Energizers
[20:40] <snelly> have you guys ever used a looped Molex connector as an on-off switch for a balloon?
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[20:44] <daveake> not Molex, but otherwise yes
[20:46] <daveake> I used a 3-pin connector to allow powering from outside
[20:46] <snelly> interesting
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[21:39] <amell> which bot code is zeusbot? It doesnt respond to the usual PM commands
[21:40] <arko> its a human that types really fast
[21:45] <jonsowman> lol
[21:45] <jonsowman> it's eggdrop
[21:46] <jonsowman> arko: we used to have a bot on here called griffonbot
[21:46] <jonsowman> which repeated #ukhas hashed tweets and stuff
[21:46] <jonsowman> and when running you could connect to the screen session and just type commands it would say them in the channel
[21:47] <jonsowman> I convinced quite a lot of people that it was a really sophisticated bot
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[21:52] <arko> jonsowman: hahaha
[21:52] <arko> i remember griffonbot :)
[21:53] <arko> and all the spanish tweets
[21:53] <arko> or some other languages
[21:53] <jonsowman> lol yep
[21:53] <jonsowman> got a tad tedious
[21:54] <arko> hehe
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[22:04] <amell> my dremel burst into flames :( looking for a new one now.
[22:05] <malclocke> so what's the verdict on B-47? should we have seen it by now?
[22:05] <amell> i think there was an expectation that the latest predictions point towards landfall tomorrow.
[22:05] <DL7AD> malclocke: from where? us?
[22:06] <malclocke> ahh, ok
[22:06] <DL7AD> the current prediction is, it will reach the us saturday evening
[22:07] <malclocke> cool, thought it was due by now. sorry, as you were :)
[22:07] <jiffe98> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/12383_trj001.gif
[22:08] <DL7AD> jiffe98: you took vertical velocity. thats incorrect
[22:08] <DL7AD> jiffe98: vertical motion must be isobaric
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[22:09] <DL7AD> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub/arlTraj.swf?client=gme-noaa&channel=OAR.ARL.HQ.HYSPLIT&dir=/hypubout/HYSPLITtraj_12391&data=/hysplit_metadata&ext=html
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[22:10] <jiffe98> that slows it down a bit
[22:11] <DL7AD> the wind speed prediction changed dramaticly from yesterday to today
[22:11] <arko> so 110 hours after last transmission?
[22:12] <arko> 9:53:01 pm PDT | Friday, May 9, 2014
[22:12] <arko> thats when it gets to oregon
[22:12] <arko> so tonight at 10pm for me
[22:12] <amell> california! hmm arko where are you?
[22:12] <arko> thats soonest
[22:12] <arko> los angeles
[22:12] <fsphil> amell: my dremel did the same
[22:12] <jiffe98> tomorrow you mean?
[22:12] <amell> fsphil: what did you buy to replace it?
[22:13] <fsphil> nothing
[22:13] <fsphil> didn't really use it for much
[22:13] <arko> jiffe98: yes tomorrow i mean
[22:13] <mikestir> I have a 20 quid "rotary tool" from b+q that I've had for years. It's never caught fire
[22:14] <fsphil> amell: proper fire? mine had smoke and what looked like a flame inside it
[22:14] <amell> smoke and a bit of sparky shite.
[22:14] <mikestir> I once cleaned the comm on a sander with too much IPA. that was a good laugh
[22:14] <fsphil> yikes
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[22:14] <fsphil> guess they're just a bit crap
[22:15] <amell> you should have seen the angle grinder i used to cut paving slabs. it was only 4
[22:15] <amell> flames were literallly spurting out the motor
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[22:16] <fsphil> angle grinders scare me a bit
[22:16] <arko> DL7AD: which predictor did you use to get the past data?
[22:16] <DL7AD> GFS05
[22:16] <fsphil> anything with a spinning disk is a bit scary
[22:16] <amell> fsphil: my 9 concrete grinder will scare you then. it cuts concrete like butter
[22:16] <mattbrejza> hysplit can do archieved data too
[22:16] <arko> trying to find wind data from 2010
[22:16] <arko> mattbrejza: linky?
[22:16] <arko> been looking for it but nothing goes far back
[22:17] <mattbrejza> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/HYSPLIT_traj.php second link
[22:17] <arko> wow
[22:17] <arko> im freakin blind
[22:17] <mattbrejza> then you need to make sur eyou select all the right options on following pages
[22:18] <arko> yeah
[22:18] <mattbrejza> so arriving at the US either friday or saturday, at that state above yours
[22:19] <amell> oregon :)
[22:19] <arko> yep
[22:21] <fsphil> nice!
[22:21] <daveake> take a radio
[22:21] <daveake> just in time for B-47 :)
[22:22] <craag> arko: I hope you realise that if it touches down anywhere over there, recovery is required for proof!
[22:22] <craag> :P
[22:23] <arko> i will drive up
[22:23] <amell> it would be VERY interesting to see the condition of the envelope.
[22:23] <cnelson> road trip!
[22:23] <craag> I was joking... but ok, awesome!
[22:24] <arko> cnelson: you down?
[22:24] <arko> lol
[22:25] <cnelson> dude, I'd go find this the thing if it makes it all the way to the states
[22:25] <arko> haha
[22:25] <arko> sweet
[22:25] <arko> lets go
[22:26] <arko> i really hope it does
[22:26] <arko> man
[22:26] <arko> i dont think it will burst if it does
[22:26] <arko> i think its gonna loop the world :P
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[22:26] <amell> there have been many Bs that have just disappeared...
[22:27] <craag> If it does reach the states then at least it has 1000km of aprs coverage for the next leg :)
[22:28] <arko> yeah
[22:28] <arko> its set once in the us
[22:29] <cnelson> 1000km?
[22:30] <amell> sibot is quiet...
[22:30] <amell> 1000 km
[22:30] <arko> 1000km across?
[22:30] <arko> i think it will have more than that
[22:30] <craag> amell: km is SI
[22:30] <amell> 3000 miles
[22:30] <arko> almost 5000km across the us
[22:30] <craag> arko: Yeah, if it goes straight across
[22:30] <arko> miles?
[22:30] <arko> whats that?
[22:31] <fsphil> hah
[22:31] <amell> 3000 ft
[22:31] <SIbot> In real units: 3000 ft = 914 m
[22:31] <amell> christ
[22:31] <arko> 3000 mi
[22:31] <craag> I was going by the scale on google maps... so a little inaccurate ;)
[22:31] <arko> 3000 miles
[22:31] <arko> aww SIbot doest know miles
[22:31] <arko> craag: haha
[22:31] <craag> arko: We use miles over here, so it would be hypocritical to put that in :P
[22:31] <arko> yeah US is 5000km across
[22:31] <arko> ish
[22:31] <arko> doesnt matter, SI rules supreme
[22:32] <fsphil> that's too big
[22:32] <arko> jpl is all SI
[22:32] <fsphil> some of it will have to go
[22:32] <arko> fsphil: you guys tried once
[22:32] <arko> 17751783
[22:32] <amell> we went SI in 1970
[22:32] <arko> :)
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[22:33] <arko> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_Conversion_Act
[22:33] <arko> yeah that went great
[22:34] <fsphil> I like that in the US (and probably here too) feet, miles etc are defined using metric
[22:35] <arko> haha
[22:35] <arko> <3 metric
[22:35] <fsphil> so the US is kinda metric
[22:36] <fsphil> the least possible it could be
[22:37] <daveake> Apparently the US gallon is defined in cubic inches (231). There's no hope ...
[22:38] <arko> hahaha
[22:38] <arko> daveake: best not look
[22:39] <arko> https://twitter.com/arkorobotics/status/357595677783633921/photo/1
[22:40] <arko> ^my favorite sign at jpl
[22:40] <cnelson> arko: haha
[22:40] <arko> cnelson: you guys gotta make some time yo
[22:40] <arko> come visit jpl
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[22:40] <daveake> haha
[22:40] <daveake> though m/s would be better :)
[22:41] <cnelson> arko: I do!, looks I'm in LA for june / july
[22:41] <arko> :) cool
[22:41] <arko> lets go
[22:42] <arko> daveake: stickler :)
[22:42] <cnelson> the new exploratorium has a sign when you are walking down the pier that's like, "You are half way there (but according to zeno you'll never make it" or something, I'm paraphrasing
[22:42] <arko> hahaha
[22:43] <arko> oh thats brilliant
[22:43] <kc2pit> Only worth it if the sign density approaches infinity near the end of the pier.
[22:44] <arko> daveake: 6.66 m/s
[22:46] <daveake> :)
[22:51] <daveake> http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/auto-road-sign-geek-math-197337.jpeg
[22:57] <Silver_IV7> arko i'm really jealous of your portfolio on your site!
[22:58] <Silver_IV7> really makes me regret taking the programming option instead of electronics through university
[22:58] <DL7AD> gn
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[23:16] <arko> Silver_IV7: thanks dude
[23:16] <arko> daveake: love it
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[00:00] --- Fri May 9 2014