highaltitude.log.20140507

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[01:35] <BG5TOX_> hello....
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[01:40] <BG5TOX_> any body here?^__^
[01:42] <craag> BG5TOX_: Not many - most are asleep!
[01:42] <craag> And some are here but should be asleep..
[01:46] <BG5TOX_> oh.....i see....haha...
[01:46] <g0pai_ian> Some are on the way there now too :)
[01:47] <BG5TOX_> China is now the morning....
[01:50] <g0pai_ian> Alas, the UK is at 02:45, Continental Europe at 03:45 and the US in the late evening. But hello BGSTOX_ are you in China or winding up sleepy Brits?
[01:51] <g0pai_ian> AFK Zzzzz!
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[01:57] <craag> BG5TOX_: There'll be more people around in about 4 hours once those working normal hours in europe get up.
[01:58] Action: craag zzz
[01:59] <BG5TOX_> G0PAI ...yeah...I'm in China.....OL96pb
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[05:47] <Reb-SM3ULC> BG5TOX_: good morning
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[06:19] <Ska_> Hello
[06:19] <eroomde> hi Ska_
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[06:23] <Ska_> My Hobby for years is model rocketry and i like to have a RF Tracker with GPS to find it. Will a 433 MHz Transmitter work if the rocket is on the ground or in a hole?
[06:23] <eroomde> a hole could be tricky
[06:23] <eroomde> radio can be a funny thing
[06:23] <eroomde> (i have made rocket trackers too with 434mhz systems)
[06:24] <eroomde> you can hear it 3 miles away when it's on the round sometimes
[06:24] <eroomde> and sometimes you have to be right ontop of it to hear it in a ditch
[06:24] <eroomde> but i think in general, a little 433mz tracker would be a good addition to a rocket
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[06:26] <Ska_> What is a good GPS to start with?
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[06:27] <Ska_> (Sorry IPAD and Webchat sucks)
[06:27] <eroomde> ublox max7
[06:28] <Ska_> Thx for the Info!
[06:29] <eroomde> no probs
[06:29] <eroomde> basically you can just make a hab-style tracker
[06:29] <eroomde> however i would recommend using afsk rather than fsk
[06:30] <eroomde> if that's meaningless to you at the moment, don't worry about it for now
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[06:35] <Ska_> Is there a good example for a hab tracker with a RFM22 or RFM23?
[06:35] <Ska_> Because i have them hear.
[06:40] <eroomde> there will be code out there
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[06:40] <mfa298> quite a few people have used rfm22's for hab although not using their standard modes
[06:41] <eroomde> you might be able to use them as intended for rocketry
[06:42] <mfa298> that could be worth a try especially as I dont think you could get them to do afsk
[06:42] <eroomde> yeah
[06:42] <eroomde> too devious
[06:44] <mfa298> and I'd imagine for a rocket you want pretty fast updates during flight. A new sentence every 20 seconds might be a bit low.
[06:46] <eroomde> exactl
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[06:57] <amell> heh. repeat conversation
[06:57] <amell> Ska_: Im looking at exactly the same thing
[06:57] <amell> oh he went.
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[06:59] <amell> by the way, i was converging on these modules& not found a reason to say no yet. http://www.anarduino.com/miniwireless/
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[07:16] <DL1SGP> good morning all!
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[07:32] <Maxell> Morning DL1SGP DL1SGP-1
[07:33] <DL1SGP> hi Maxell after Russias performance on the ESC stuff yesterday I decided to appear twice with minor differences myself lol
[07:33] <DL1SGP> nah it is just another box that connected :)
[07:35] Action: Maxell waits for DL1SGP-9 for mobile IRC operations :P
[07:35] <Maxell> afk
[07:35] <DL1SGP> do not tell aUN... -9 is in my pocket!
[07:36] <DL1SGP> they would get me sued forhman right violaios for keeping -9 in the pocket isntead of giving fedom o move around happily :)
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[08:13] <DL7AD> hi felix DL1SGP
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[08:25] <DL1SGP> moin Sven DL7AD
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[09:11] <eroomde> amell: I don't work in arms
[09:13] <nats`> eroomde you brother ?
[09:13] <nats`> *tadadadada tudududu !*
[09:15] <eroomde> no.
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[09:18] Action: nats` pack his joke and get out
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[09:41] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
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[09:45] <amell> eroomde: oh dont think i said you did.
[09:45] <amell> someone said it was top secret. I simply commented MDBA at stevenage are hiring a lot of people,
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[09:47] <Motolization> hey everyone
[09:47] <amell> I think MDBA subcontract to Roxel for propulsion
[09:47] <Hix> Ello
[09:48] <mfa298> Hix: long time no see
[09:48] <Hix> proxy issues and dead motherboards :/
[09:49] <Hix> how is the world of HAB doing?
[09:49] <eroomde> amell: they have some people there who do propulsion
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[09:50] <amell> They seem to be doing a lot of work on the next gen aster and the anti ship one.
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[09:56] <amell> Upu: max7 on hab supplies says: This module is NOT suitable for direct connection to Arduino Uno, Duemilanove or Leonardo use this instead. - assume it is just Vcc 5 instead of 3.3v? nothing else.
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[09:59] <mfa298> and the logic levels (which I think are based on vcc for the arduinos)
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[10:00] <eroomde> amell: not even a secret really!
[10:00] <amell> hmm, trying to work out if this will interface to anarduino miniwireless.
[10:00] <eroomde> it's generally rocket propulsion r&d
[10:00] <eroomde> and specifically for the sabre engine
[10:00] <amell> eroomde: european cooperative stuff is never a secret :)
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[10:01] <amell> oh. sabre. very nice!
[10:01] <amell> I really hope that pans out, it will embarass the americans
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[10:24] <RB1203> still over the pacific then...
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[10:29] <fsphil> nobody knows
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[11:11] <malclocke> Anyone know if the Ublox NEO-6M is suitable for hab?
[11:11] <Darkside> sure is
[11:11] <Darkside> as long as you put it into the right mode
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[11:16] <malclocke> Darkside, cool, thanks
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[11:29] <amell> i really hope B-47 makes it to the west coast :)
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[12:06] <RB> no sign of the B?
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[12:10] <amell> I think the last B-47 prediction we saw had it going towards oregon/washington rather than alaska, that might mean landfall thurs, if it made it.
[12:12] <amell> LeoBodnar: Will you be popping out B-50 on friday?
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[12:35] <mfa298> knowing what Leo launches are like it will be some other point so you can't predict it
[12:35] <eroomde> a source of entropy
[12:37] <mfa298> I have visions of a row of balloons ready and waiting in Leo's lab and occasionally the next one in the line makes a run for the door and escapes.
[12:39] <eroomde> trying to get back to north korea
[12:52] <craag> Unfortunately B-47 missed the rendezvous so has to circle the planet and try again
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[14:09] <jiffe98> any idea where b-47 should be right now?
[14:11] <eroomde> somewhere over the pacific
[14:14] <jiffe98> heh
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[14:52] <fsphil> or somewhere on the pacific
[14:54] <eroomde> an excellent point
[14:54] <jiffe98> belly of a white tip?
[14:55] <eroomde> probably not the tastiest
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[15:11] <arko> B-47 was headed into some pretty slow winds, so it maybe another day or two if i recall correctly
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[15:20] <UpuWork> Not expecting to see it until late Thursday UTC
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[16:32] <S_Mark> At what altitude would a phone playing a video stop working?
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[16:33] <adamgreig> stop playing the video, or stop transmitting the video, or...?
[16:34] <S_Mark> simply playing the video - no transmission, signal etc as we know that wont work
[16:35] <S_Mark> I guess I am talking about operating temperatures and if altitude affects it
[16:35] <mfa298> that's probaby down to how cold the phone gets and how it handles the cold
[16:35] <mfa298> or when the battery runs out
[16:35] <S_Mark> yeah - has anyone done any tests?
[16:35] <mattbrejza> id say its more likely to overheat
[16:36] <S_Mark> an exposed phone
[16:36] <adamgreig> suspect battery
[16:36] <mattbrejza> and its probably hard to compare between models of phones
[16:36] <mattbrejza> i would say battery is limiting factor too
[16:36] <adamgreig> overheat is reasonably likely too I guess
[16:36] <adamgreig> but they can run pretty hot
[16:36] <mattbrejza> and hitting the ground too hard
[16:36] <adamgreig> suspect the battery will be what does it
[16:36] <mattbrejza> but thats nothing you cant solve
[16:37] <S_Mark> yeah I was thinking you would need a backup cable connection to some lithiums
[16:37] <mfa298> I'd suspect battery/ overheating as well although that's probably dependant on the phone and possibly what format the video is (how much processing is needed to display it)
[16:38] <S_Mark> why overheat - no air to dissipate it?
[16:38] <mattbrejza> yea
[16:38] <S_Mark> cool ok
[16:39] <mfa298> cold is more likely to only be an issue if it spent a long time at a lower altitude where there's still some convection
[16:39] <S_Mark> ah course, only really cold for a short time
[16:39] <mfa298> although that's only my gut instinct with nothing much to back it up
[16:39] <S_Mark> thats fine
[16:39] <S_Mark> lol
[16:40] <DL1SGP> I guess you would need to film it playing the movie, potentially with the sky and earth being visible as background or would it be concealed in a box?
[16:40] <mfa298> it's probably in limited atmosphere for longer when overheating would be an issue
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[16:41] <S_Mark> yeah, just an idea at the mo - film playing the movie so the phone would be exposed not in a box. I'm thinking that the suns reflection could be an issue too
[16:41] <adamgreig> green screen it tbh
[16:42] <S_Mark> lol
[16:43] <DL1SGP> maybe you can get in touch with some of the toughpads manufactures like panasonic and they give you a "test-subject" would make some advertisement for them :D
[16:43] <DL1SGP> anyhow, dinner is ready be back in a bit
[16:43] <mfa298> damn that english weather. I read suns as snus. I'd forgotton we occasionally see a glowing orb in the sky
[16:44] <S_Mark> yeah and it is always above the cloud anyway!
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[17:15] <W7KKE> Is B47 estimated to still be airborne?
[17:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Hopefully!
[17:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Prediction I believe is visible in north america on Thursday
[17:16] <W7KKE> OK! Listening from Oregon, USA
[17:19] <myself> That's bonkers. I just looked at the aprs map again
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[17:30] <DL1SGP> thanks for listening for B-47 W7KKE
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[17:31] <DL1SGP> nice equipment as well over there :)
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[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[17:52] <DL1SGP> Guten Abend Lunar_Lander
[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> hallo
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[18:06] <Rb1203> Nothing on B47? Bet that's an original question...
[18:06] <arko> not yet
[18:07] <arko> time window of expecting word from B47 is in about 24hours
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[18:13] <jiffe98> based on projections I don't think its going to hit any stations in alaska
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[18:16] <arko> yeah, but the predictions aren't exact really
[18:16] <arko> especially as it was projects a few days ahead
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[18:19] <arko> based on the current conditions, if it did end up in alaska it wouldn't go south, rather it would head north toward the polls
[18:19] <arko> poles*
[18:19] <arko> pole*
[18:19] <arko> :)
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[18:22] <jiffe98> where do you see that? it looks like the noaa forward models still point toward WA/OR
[18:24] <arko> http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/250hPa/orthographic=-154.61,42.74,445
[18:24] <arko> the tool isn't exactly helpful for picking a point and doing predictions
[18:24] <arko> but its nice to see the field lines for a given area
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[18:29] <Herman-PB0AHX> very GE all
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[18:30] <arko> its all speculation anyway
[18:30] <arko> fingers crossed
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[18:32] <dennis__> Hi guys on which frequency does the balloon icarus send?
[18:36] <daveake> averaged over the last 3 years, DC
[18:38] <dennis__> ?
[18:38] <daveake> it's not sending anything
[18:38] <daveake> it's an ex hab
[18:38] <daveake> it is no more
[18:38] <daveake> someone's decoding a recording
[18:38] <dennis__> other question than
[18:39] <dennis__> which frequency is the blue signal that covers the netherlands?
[18:39] <dennis__> How can I now which frequency I have to look for?
[18:40] <daveake> Same answer
[18:40] <daveake> There is no flight; it's someone testing
[18:41] <dennis__> Ahhh now I get it
[18:41] <DL1SGP> laugh daveake ... the icarus data seen on snus is just a test upload resulting from some fldigi setup dennis__ it is not flying at present .oO( if I remember correctly )
[18:41] <mfa298> and by the looks of the time & date someone testing yesterday
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[18:41] <SilverIV7> Evening all
[18:41] <daveake> Yes Icarus was Rob Harrison's payload and there's a sample wav file around which I suspect someone is playig back and decoding
[18:42] <mfa298> I didn't see icarus at first, it doesn't appear on habmap (I assume craag has some code in there to not display it)
[18:42] <SilverIV7> I'm a bit confused ... I have SDR working fine with my usb dongle and can see radio waves, but if I open up dl-fldigi then there's nothing, just a black box?
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[18:43] <mfa298> SilverIV7: you'll need to get the audio from sdr application into dl-fldigi. The simplest option on windows is probably to get dl-fldigi listening on stereo mix
[18:43] <daveake> You need to set dl-dldigi to listen to an audio device that SDR is playing to
[18:43] <mfa298> a better solution is to use something like virtual audio cable
[18:43] <DL1SGP> mfa298: you are right it was yesterday, and more the less an accident. but through it we got another listener station that knows how to use dl-fldigi for upload now... laughs
[18:45] <mfa298> hmmm, that list of listeners on icarus is shorter than I remembered it being. someone must have found a less common sentence in that recording to decide.
[18:45] <mfa298> s/decide/decode/
[18:48] <SilverIV7> are there any good blogs on getting sdr and lfdigi working together?
[18:49] <SilverIV7> thanks! i have no idea about radio language so never sure what to google
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[19:16] <amell> arko: that nullschool globe, what altitude is it showing the winds for?
[19:17] <arko> i selected 250hPa
[19:18] <amell> What is that in ft?
[19:18] <arko> what are ft?
[19:18] <amell> feet
[19:18] <arko> its close to 12000m
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[19:20] <arko> so you're looking at around 10,000m
[19:20] <arko> 250hPa
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[19:22] <amell> i guess it will all depend on whether b-47 entered that high pressure swirl or not.
[19:22] <amell> it could conceivably have gotten pushed south and then across pass the high
[19:22] <arko> its not exactly the best tool in the world, so i wouldnt depend on it for accurate answers
[19:23] <amell> i have zygrib. I will see what that says
[19:24] <arko> hysplit doesnt allow for running past wind data does it?
[19:24] <arko> at least not by a few days
[19:24] <arko> it would have been nice to run sims with actual data
[19:25] <amell> yes, but it would be quite unusual for someone to want to do this.
[19:25] <amell> habs and lost planes etc notwithstanding
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[19:50] <SilverIV7> Okay so I managed to get sdr and flg communicating but it doesn't seem able to decode the data? http://thehablab.com/images/Capture123.JPG
[19:52] <mfa298> you may not need swap I&Q in sdr#
[19:53] <mfa298> also it might be worth trying a slower baudrate first
[19:53] <eroomde> before you try all that, can you try it on lsb?
[19:54] <mfa298> lsb (or rv on dl-fldigi) might be a good shot first.
[19:55] <mfa298> looking at that data it looks repetative which would suggest lsb/usb (or rv) is wrong or it's a timing issue
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[19:58] <Maxell> SilverIV7: why swapping i&q?
[19:58] <Maxell> that doesn't seem right
[19:59] <eroomde> i don't really see that it makes any difference
[20:00] <mfa298> I think having swap IQ wrong will cause issues with tuning but I'm not sure if it affects the actual signal
[20:00] <eroomde> i can't see how swapping I and Q would affect the tuning of anything
[20:00] <eroomde> there seems to be no architectural decision that could be affected by that
[20:01] <eroomde> logical architectural decision*
[20:01] <eroomde> by the makers of sdr#
[20:01] <SilverIV7> okai i&q is off, it's on 50 baud and lsb http://thehablab.com/images/Cap3.JPG
[20:02] <eroomde> so it's still not decoding
[20:02] <eroomde> what's the source of this signal?
[20:03] <SilverIV7> NTX2B
[20:03] <Maxell> Why lower side band?
[20:03] <mfa298> I can't speak for how it should work, but I did find that having the wrong value caused the tuning to work backards so within the waterfall what was shown as a lower frequency was actually above the LO (and vice versa)
[20:03] <eroomde> just incase sdr# doesn't work as i thought (i've not used it) can you try hitting 'Rv' in the bottom right of fldigi
[20:03] <bertrik> I'd set the bandwidth to 3000 in sdr# center the signal on 1500 Hz in dl-fldigi
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[20:04] <SilverIV7> Success! http://thehablab.com/images/Cap4.JPG
[20:05] <eroomde> Rv?
[20:07] <mfa298> one thing to remember for next time is that it's often worth making one change at a time and testing that way you know what fixed it and dont make two changes that cancel each other out (in this case changing to LSB and toggling the RV button would cancel themselves out)
[20:08] <SilverIV7> ah okay, it's a nice feeling to see it working for the first time, now to get some gps coordinates on the go
[20:08] <eroomde> assuming it works 'properly'
[20:08] <eroomde> SilverIV7: what did you change?
[20:08] Nick change: Vostok_ -> Vostok
[20:09] <SilverIV7> I changed back to USB and widened the filter bandwidth to center it in fld
[20:09] <eroomde> no Rv?
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[20:17] <mfa298> eroomde: this is what happens on sdr# as you change the swap IQ button. https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ij4xf5rtrmtirx/changeover.jpg
[20:19] <eroomde> bug?
[20:19] <mfa298> when swap IQ was ticked (bottom of the waterfall) the station shown at 105MHz is really 106MHz, the one at 105.8 is really 105.2. With Swap IQ off they're in the correct place (swapped over between the two)
[20:19] <eroomde> i can only see that it makes one correlator 90 degrees ahead of the other instead of behind it
[20:19] <eroomde> that it *should* do that
[20:20] <mfa298> I've certainly seen the same with the FCD Pro+ which does need swap IQ on.
[20:20] <mfa298> I can't remember if I've seen the same on sdr-console
[20:20] <mfa298> although I think that hides the swap IQ function away somewhere
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[20:21] <eroomde> this makes my head hurt
[20:21] <eroomde> maybe i'm missing something fundamental about software defined radios
[20:21] <eroomde> you don't even need iq for fsk
[20:22] <mfa298> I don't know what it does to the signals in terms of lsb/usb but it could have a similar affect (looks usb but is lsb in terms where the tones are)
[20:23] <mfa298> my understanding of IQ is pretty limited so can't comment on what it should do.
[20:26] <eroomde> iq just lets you find the phase of an incoming signal relative to your local oscillator
[20:26] <eroomde> that's it
[20:27] <eroomde> it correlates the signal against your lo and your lo shifted 90 degrees
[20:27] <eroomde> so you can then use those as an orhogonal basis for a vector
[20:27] <eroomde> whose angle from the origin is your phase
[20:27] <eroomde> and whose magnitude is your signal strength
[20:28] <eroomde> so if you swap the basis vectors, the frequency should still be the same
[20:28] <eroomde> unless, as you say, it also does some kind of implicit lsb/usb thing
[20:28] <eroomde> though that would be fugly as hell from a software architectural point of view
[20:28] <eroomde> (in my opinion)
[20:29] <mfa298> sdr-console seems to do the same thing with swapping IQ inverting the spectrum
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[20:31] <mfa298> I think it works that the local oscilator is correct, so if I stuck the LO on a frequency I'm interested in it would report correctly. It's just when you move off the LO it goes the opposite way to you'de expect.
[20:32] <mfa298> which sort of makes sense to my brain as the vector's direction component would have changed.
[20:32] <mfa298> If we always took I as being 0 degrees, Q would effectivly swap between +90 and -90 degrees.
[20:32] <eroomde> sure, but my understaning of that graph was that it was saying that the actual frequency of the two tones ahd changed?
[20:33] <eroomde> the spectrogram you linked to
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[20:34] <LeoBodnar> their relative position vs 105.500MHz simply changed sign
[20:34] <mfa298> In that one I think the LO was around 105.5, so the station that should be at 105.2 (LO- 0.3) moved to 105.8 (LO+ 0.3)
[20:36] <mfa298> similarly the station that should be at 106 (LO+ 0.5) moved to 105 (LO- 0.5)
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[20:40] <eroomde> i guess i see
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[20:50] <mfa298> gaaah if only debuggers could point out the bleedin obvious. Just spent ages trying to work out the code was segfaulting when I tried to stop a thread. I finally realised I'm trying to stop a thread I havn't started.
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> good night
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[20:56] Action: Willdude123 knows what a segfault is
[20:56] Action: Willdude123 understood most of that, yay
[20:57] <mfa298> this was a good demonstration of why good printed debug info in the program can be more useful than a debugger.
[20:58] <mfa298> debugger just told me which function call was failing. the print statements actually helped show what the underlying problem was.
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[21:12] <SilverIV7> Is there an existing script for sending ublox max-7 gps data via the nxt2b or should I just write my own?
[21:14] <eroomde> latter option much better
[21:14] <eroomde> you'll learn a lot of interesting stuff if you're new to it
[21:15] <eroomde> and it'll be easy but an excuse to diject the ublox datasheet if you're familiar with microcontrollers already
[21:15] <eroomde> digest*
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[21:23] <tweetBot> @thecraag: High Altitude test chamber demo this evening at @SUSpaceflight #ukhas http://t.co/31zGo39F3R
[21:23] <kc2pit> I've noticed several people around here designing and building their own trackers, usually including a ublox GPS. Where does one buy those bare modules?
[21:24] <SilverIV7> here: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=68
[21:24] <kc2pit> Any sources for just the receiver module, without the regulator, antenna, etc.?
[21:25] <eroomde> most people diy
[21:25] <eroomde> i think
[21:25] <eroomde> the notion of being able to buy a working hab tracker as a product is actually batty to those of us who've been doing this a few years - shows how far the hobby has come
[21:25] <mfa298> kc2pit: you can get the bare modules from the same place as well as a range of breakout boards and other useful HAB stuff
[21:25] <eroomde> upu sells the raw modules
[21:26] <eroomde> or you can find your local disributor
[21:26] <Upu> hey kc2pit yeah I sell the modules on their own
[21:26] <kc2pit> Oh hey, there's the link.
[21:26] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_64
[21:26] <Upu> use coupon code UKHAS and you get 10% off
[21:28] <craag> mfa298: Yeah habmap filters icarus and doesn't do anything with it
[21:28] <craag> I will remember to remove that filter if they fly again!
[21:28] <mfa298> I suspected it might be
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[21:29] <mfa298> other option (although a bit more effort) would be to only display if there's been some data within the last x minutes (30?) then it will appear briefly if someone is testing but disappear quickly afterwards
[21:30] <craag> Meh effort
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[21:30] <mfa298> I thought that could be the response.
[21:30] <craag> :)
[21:30] <mfa298> plus you'de need to read in all the data before deciding whether to display it or not
[21:31] <craag> yep
[21:36] <amell> silly question, if i may, ublox 6 is like half the price of 7. can i just use 6 and save myself 10 quid?
[21:37] <craag> You can, the 7 is a lot more power efficient
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[21:45] <SpeedEvil> It generally doesn't matter at all if your payload is not a floater
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[21:46] <amell> gah, thanks for that.
[21:48] <amell> shame upu doesnt seem to sell 6 breakout boards. One stop shop
[21:48] <Upu> I do
[21:48] <Upu> they have 7's on them
[21:48] <amell> hence they are not 6? :)
[21:49] <Upu> 6 and 7 is exactly the same layout
[21:53] <SilverIV7> hmm writing code to send the max-7 gps data via ntx2b isn't going well, any samples out there?
[21:55] <eroomde> it'll take more than an hour!
[21:56] <aadamson> SilverIV7, youre trying to read ASCII from the GPS or what? And send it via the ntx2b? obviously a special application and how are you trying to send it, as some form of binary or am I just not getting what you are trying to do?
[21:57] <aadamson> man did I have a nasty one today... ADC running in continuous/Scan mode pushing samples direct to memory via DMA, none stop in circular mode.
[21:58] <aadamson> when all of a sudden I get an overrun and the byte order starts to shift in the memory locations...
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[21:58] <aadamson> took me a good while to figure out what the heck was happening (and how to fix it)
[21:58] <SilverIV7> i think i'm over complicating things, i'm at the step where i can transmit data over the radio and then recieve it but it's meaningless data, I need to work on somehow sending the coordinates, that's the point of the gps right?
[21:59] <aadamson> the above would only happen when I was going from Stop mode to run mode too
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[21:59] <aadamson> SilverIV7, take 2 steps backwards... what are you trying to accomplish ultimately?
[21:59] <aadamson> because there are 27 ways to do what you want, but only one of them will do it *how* you want it
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[22:02] <SilverIV7> i just want to be able to track the balloon reliably
[22:03] <aadamson> SilverIV7, ah, ok... then you need to think this way.
[22:03] <aadamson> you have a set of numbers that you got from the GPS (means you need to decode either the NMEA, PUBX or UBX-binary) protocol to get those number into variables in your code.
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[22:04] <aadamson> then you need a way to *modulate* tones/symbols/something, that you will use to send those variables
[22:05] <aadamson> These tones/symbols/something need to be decodable by others - hence the use or RTTY, MFSK, AFSK etc as a way to modulate the radio to send the values to be decoded
[22:05] <SilverIV7> okay thanks that makes sense, i'm deffinately on the right track, it's just working out the C code to do all that now
[22:05] <aadamson> and the values need to be structured into a protocol that is meaningful for others to decode and use. - that is documented on the UKHAB site
[22:06] <SilverIV7> they make sense individually and the demos run fine but combining them is tricky
[22:07] <aadamson> yup, making the cake is only part of the fun, having it be a cake when you are finished is what you are trying to do
[22:07] <aadamson> /220556h3405.08N/08356.86WO087/000/A=001172/Te=23.07/Sat=09/bit=29:02/Vb=1.27 STM32-TRAK
[22:08] <aadamson> e.g ^ you want it to look something like the above (AFSK - APRS ASCII protocol) coming of the a FunCube Pro dongle being decoded with AFSK1200
[22:08] <SilverIV7> and somewhat ironically it's on the same complexity level as the cake i had for my birthday! https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/t1.0-9/1625678_10152281636116195_1955482956672017649_n.jpg
[22:08] <amell> Thats a very nice cake
[22:08] <aadamson> yep - indeed
[22:09] <SilverIV7> haha thanks, my gf treated me
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[22:09] <amell> did she make it?
[22:09] <amell> looks like a lot of work
[22:09] <SilverIV7> no she paid someone to do it
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[22:23] <DL7AD> does anybody know if the raspberry pi has internal pull ups at the I2C port?
[22:26] <mfa298> I think all the gpio pins can have internal (configurable) pullups. But the i2C may also have some fixed resistors as pullups on the board
[22:27] <mfa298> SilverIV7: my experience of writing code is don't expect it all to work at once. Start off with something simple and then add to it a bit at a time.
[22:28] <mfa298> so with the gps code maybe just get to the point you can read in a string from the gps and print it out to the console.
[22:28] <mfa298> then look at only printing out the strings you're interested in
[22:28] <mfa298> then look at getting the bits of data out that you want and discarding the rest
[22:29] <mfa298> then convert that data into the format you want
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[22:29] <mfa298> i.e. lots of small steps that hopefully are fairly easy on their own and you can see progress happening.
[22:30] <mfa298> it's also worth getting into using a source code managment system (SCM) to help manage your code. Git & girhub is one of the more popular ones out there.
[22:31] <mfa298> if you can get into the habit of commiting things as you make changes you get a good log of how things have changed over time. It also gives the ability to undo some changes if you find later on something broke.
[22:32] <mfa298> girhub should be github
[22:34] <amell> has anyone seen a wiki page covering how to interface RFM69 with arduino and GPS? Im a bit unclear how the SPI works for two devices.
[22:36] <nats`> you talk about ublox 7 ?
[22:36] <nats`> if yes it's in i2c
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[22:36] <amell> 6
[22:37] <nats`> oky so spi is pretty simple you need to have two CS
[22:37] <nats`> chip select
[22:37] <nats`> you put at low state the chip select of the chip you want to address
[22:37] <nats`> MISO MOSI and CLK are shared
[22:37] <amell> I see on the board I want SS, MOSI,MISO and SCK
[22:37] <Motolization> hey
[22:37] <amell> so where is the other SS?
[22:37] <nats`> SS is chip select
[22:38] <amell> yes, but i need two.
[22:38] <nats`> forget about the bultin SS
[22:38] <nats`> use GPIO
[22:38] <nats`> you manually activate them
[22:38] <amell> ok. so just use like D4,D5
[22:38] <nats`> yep what mcu do you use ?
[22:38] <amell> 328
[22:38] <nats`> 328 ?
[22:39] <Motolization> arduino
[22:39] <amell> Atmega329
[22:39] <amell> 328
[22:39] <nats`> ahh I'm not familiar with AVR but I guess you can disable auto SS
[22:39] <amell> http://www.anarduino.com/miniwireless/
[22:39] <craag> (AVR to give it it's true name_
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[22:39] <nats`> and in that case your SPI IP will just take care of MISO MOSI and SCK
[22:39] <amell> this is what I plan to use with ublox6 breakout board.
[22:39] <Motolization> yup
[22:40] <nats`> so when you want to talk to GPS you make a GPIO_SS_GPS = 0
[22:40] <amell> simple two boards.
[22:40] <nats`> SPI
[22:40] <nats`> GPIO_SS_GPS = 1
[22:40] <nats`> remember usually SS is active LOW
[22:40] <nats`> take care of the polarity of data line and clock too
[22:40] <nats`> I hope for you they are the same on the two SPI device
[22:41] <amell> can i get the ublox breakout board to raise irq when there is new data?
[22:41] <nats`> I guess yes
[22:41] <nats`> in that cse it's an other gpio
[22:41] <nats`> at least the version 7 yes
[22:41] <SilverIV7> yes mfa298, I do do a lot of coding but C isn't a langauge I use that reguarly so it complicates it that little bit more
[22:42] <amell> ok. as far as i can tell now theres nothing stopping me making this work, everything is 3.3v
[22:42] <amell> trying to find gotchas before ordering
[22:42] <nats`> don't forget to order wiring :p
[22:42] <nats`> (usually problem :p)
[22:42] <amell> got plenty of that
[22:43] <amell> this board seems quite nice, $15 for 128 meg flash, ATmega328, RTC, radio transceiver.
[22:44] <nats`> 128 meg ?
[22:44] <amell> add a ublox breakout. and everything isthere.
[22:44] <amell> yes.
[22:44] <nats`> spi flash ?
[22:44] <amell> yep
[22:44] <nats`> 128 Mb not MB ?
[22:44] <amell> uses D5 for select
[22:44] <amell> sorry Mb yes
[22:45] <mfa298> slight difference there
[22:45] <Motolization> about the same price of a moteino
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[22:47] <amell> moteino is $18.95
[22:48] <amell> doesnt seem to have quite as much flexibility as the miniwireless
[22:48] <Motolization> i am surprised that i have not seen this one before, looks awesome,
[22:48] <amell> are you in the UK?
[22:49] <Motolization> i will have problems shipping moteinos too
[22:49] <nats`> and you want to use arduino "framework" ?
[22:49] <Motolization> no , i am from Jordan
[22:49] <amell> im planning to put an order in for these miniwireless boards. just wondering if anyone wants to share shipping
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[22:50] <nats`> amell you want a long distance time balloon ?
[22:51] <amell> its not for balloon. its for rocket tracking
[22:51] <nats`> oh oky
[22:51] <nats`> I suggest you to make your first test with arduino but before your first firing try to learn some AVR "native" and makes C
[22:52] <nats`> you'll quickly discover that arduino is limited when you need specific things and to play with interrupt etc
[22:52] <amell> i think its sufficient for what i need, just transmit GPS coords and display on a two line LCD at the other end.
[22:52] <Motolization> nats, do you mean like access to registers?
[22:53] <amell> assumed you were talking to me
[22:53] <nats`> amell yes Motolization yes
[22:53] <Motolization> i need to figure out SPI first
[22:54] <amell> I got it now.
[22:54] <amell> what the hell is a SMD header
[22:55] <Motolization> amell, will you be using it to send rtty?
[22:55] <amell> no, i wont, just point to point data transmission.
[22:55] <Motolization> planning to use two transceivers?
[22:55] <amell> I assume SMD header is just pads on teh board..
[22:56] <amell> yes, two transceivers.
[22:56] <nats`> SMD header is just a header but in SMD
[22:56] <mikestir> amell: you want to see a cad drawing. smd header could be a multitude of things
[22:56] <Motolization> i will be happy if i manage to send gps coords using rtty and decode it with my RTL
[22:56] <nats`> without more detaisl hard to answer
[22:57] <amell> http://www.anarduino.com/details.jsp?pid=149
[22:57] <amell> i think i can just solder an interface cable onto that
[22:58] <mikestir> well looking at the thumbnail picture, which appears to be as good as it gets, it's just 6 solder pads
[22:58] <mikestir> which is not a "header" by any definition
[22:58] <amell> SMD header :)
[23:00] <mikestir> why not just buy the ftdi->ttl header cable?
[23:00] <nats`> amell a SMD header is a header soldered as SMD
[23:00] <amell> i didnt see that
[23:00] <nats`> I agree with mikestir it's in noway a header
[23:00] <nats`> maybe a group of pad :D
[23:01] <mikestir> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/81225.pdf <-- this thing
[23:01] <mikestir> you get a pass thru from the USB power (so +5V), but the IO is 3v3
[23:01] <mikestir> you need to provide your own 3v3 regulation if you want to use it as a power source
[23:02] <amell> Hmm
[23:02] <amell> I have an atmel avrisp board. pretty sure that I cant use that
[23:02] <mikestir> what are you trying to do?
[23:03] <amell> well i need to program the board, and ideally, have the option to power it from usb too.
[23:03] <nats`> just for information when it comes to programmer just buy the official one !
[23:03] <nats`> for avr it's 40$
[23:04] <mikestir> I agree
[23:04] <nats`> but it avoid many hours of debugging the debugger
[23:04] <nats`> same for microchip pic
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[23:04] <mikestir> the avrisp is so cheap the hobbyist knockoffs are just a waste of time
[23:04] <nats`> I can maybe understand for fpga where probe cost 300$
[23:04] <amell> the one i have works fine, I have used it numerous times to flash various things
[23:04] <amell> im pretty sure its 5v only though
[23:04] <mfa298> and ideally get a scope or logic analyser as well. That makes debugging signalling issues much easier
[23:04] <mikestir> for the low end microcontrollers all this arduino buspirate nonsense just ends up costing you time and effort way beyond what just buying the vendor tools would cost
[23:05] <craag> Also the official AVR ISP gives nice error messages I found :) tells you exactly which pins are low-impedance (shorted or being driven elsewhere)
[23:05] <mikestir> amell: see the real avrisp has a level shifter in it
[23:05] <mikestir> so you wouldn't have this problem
[23:05] <nats`> I saw so many people trying to debug a mystic bug coming from a cheap clone
[23:06] <nats`> like why the mplab debugger stop when resetting the chip etc...
[23:06] <amell> bloody small writing on pcbs. wheres my glasses
[23:06] <nats`> it's really a waste of time
[23:07] <mattbrejza> http://i.imgur.com/rG279dA.jpg my 5V -> 3.3V avr programmer adapter :P
[23:07] <amell> aha,. my progreammer does indeed have a switch for 5/3.3 select
[23:08] <mikestir> amell: try potting down the +5V outputs and connecting the 3v3 inputs directly. 3v3 is over the threshold for 5v logic anyway
[23:08] <amell> i had to go get a magnifying glass to see it
[23:08] <amell> mattbrejza: i like it.
[23:08] <mikestir> I see mattbrejza had the same idea :)
[23:08] <nats`> mattbrejza not error prone at all :p
[23:08] <mattbrejza> i wouldnt suggest it, but i had a 5V programmer for reasons and now i have a 3.3V one :P
[23:09] <mattbrejza> the main issue is it doesnt release rst
[23:09] <mattbrejza> so you have to remove it after programming
[23:09] <mikestir> diode
[23:09] <mattbrejza> there is probably a reason it doesnt have one
[23:10] <mikestir> it's certainly dirty
[23:10] <nats`> why do you say that :p
[23:10] <mikestir> I once reflashed a PC motherboard using a breadboard and an STK500 though - that was dirty
[23:11] <mattbrejza> spent a while making a 3.3V -> 1.8V msp430 adapter. issue with that is that the data is bi-directional
[23:11] <amell> programmer has a 6 pin and a 10 pin header.
[23:11] <mikestir> the 10 pin header is ancient
[23:11] <nats`> mattbrejza why don't take a buffer ?
[23:11] <amell> pins are miso, sck, rst, gnd, mosi, vcc
[23:11] <mattbrejza> for the avr or msp?
[23:12] <nats`> the msp
[23:12] <nats`> 1.8V becomes touchy
[23:12] <mattbrejza> it used a FET in the end i think, actually pretty simple
[23:12] <nats`> yep :)
[23:13] <nats`> level shifter with a common gate ?
[23:13] <amell> im a bit worried. where is the ftdi interface on this board?
[23:13] <amell> im more used to seeing a six pin header 3x2 on a board, and just plug into that
[23:13] <mikestir> ?
[23:14] <mikestir> are you confusing the debug serial port and the isp port?
[23:14] <mikestir> the ftdi serial debug lead plugs into a 6 pin single row header
[23:14] <mikestir> the 6 pin 3x2 header is AVRISP
[23:14] <amell> and this is ftdi
[23:14] <mikestir> and the 10 pin header is another AVRISP pinout that went away about 8 years ago
[23:15] <mattbrejza> hmm the proper msp430 FET is pretty expensive, ill stick with a $4.30 launchpad board i think
[23:15] <mikestir> mattbrejza: I even use a launchpad board to program CC1110s :)
[23:16] <nats`> mattbrejza you have bidirectionnal buffer too
[23:16] <amell> ok. never used ftdi before, researching
[23:16] <mikestir> you would use an ftdi cable if you are programming a device with a pre-loaded arduino bootloader
[23:16] <mattbrejza> most bidirectional buffers have a direction pin?
[23:17] <mattbrejza> idk, a mosfet works fine
[23:17] <mattbrejza> shame a lost that 1.8V tracker...
[23:17] <mattbrejza> eww 8051 core :P
[23:17] <mattbrejza> (so i hear)
[23:17] <mikestir> yeah it is
[23:17] <nats`> mattbrejza no I talk about stuff like i2c buffer but nevermind if it works :)
[23:17] <mikestir> there's an MSP430 version though as well now
[23:18] <mattbrejza> yea it was a case of needing to get the programer to work now rather than when the buffer turned up
[23:18] <mattbrejza> cc430
[23:18] <mattbrejza> much approval
[23:18] <amell> ah. so the bit on the end is the ftdi port. needs headers.
[23:18] <nats`> what the hell 4 i2c device same family only one ack transaction oO
[23:19] <mikestir> i2c is the devil's bus
[23:19] <nats`> yep
[23:19] <nats`> I hate their protocol
[23:19] <nats`> is silly
[23:19] <amell> christ, ive just realised ive already got an ftdi cable. just didnt know what it was
[23:20] <mikestir> lol
[23:20] <nats`> amell take care there are many different ftdi
[23:20] <nats`> it's just for RS232 ?
[23:20] <nats`> RS232 => ttl serial
[23:20] <nats`> ?
[23:20] <amell> yep
[23:20] <amell> and for flashing firmware
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[23:20] <nats`> (care of the voltage they have 5 and 3.3)
[23:20] <amell> i am pretty sure the one i have is 5v only
[23:21] <mikestir> it says on the plug
[23:21] <mikestir> if it's a real one
[23:23] <nats`> avr support flashing from serial port ?
[23:24] <mikestir> mattbrejza: I'm not condoning their use, but most modern 8051s make extensive use of the XRAM bus and are therefore fairly normal looking from a programmer's point of view
[23:25] <amell> didnt say on plug. cracked the plug open and its 5v. i could modify to 3v3 but its microscopic and my hand is not steady enough to solder.
[23:25] <mattbrejza> why would you use one over a m3/m4 these days?
[23:25] <mikestir> silabs does a nice range where pretty much all the peripherals are brought out by a fully non-blocking crossbar, so you basically lay your board out as simply as possible and just set the pins to map to wherever they need to go
[23:25] <mattbrejza> the cc430 (msp430 + cc1101) has that
[23:25] <nats`> mattbrejza many reason
[23:25] <nats`> license free core
[23:25] <nats`> easy to implement
[23:25] <nats`> low size on silicium
[23:25] <mikestir> lower power, lower cost
[23:25] <nats`> easy to tune and tweak for specific use
[23:25] <mikestir> m0+ is catching up rapidly though
[23:26] <nats`> etc...
[23:26] <mattbrejza> from a user buying a IC you would go m0/3/4 though?
[23:26] <nats`> mikestir I don't think m0 make sense in RF frontend for example
[23:26] <nats`> you just need the code to be simple and reliable
[23:26] <nats`> and the simple side is a little complicated as soon as you use ARM
[23:27] <nats`> mattbrejza depends on your needs but be prepared to fight
[23:27] <mikestir> nats`: I agree with that, although M0 is not really any more complicated than 8 bit
[23:27] <nats`> cortex m chip are nice
[23:27] <nats`> toolchain and framework are not
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[23:27] <mikestir> only because they don't tend to do the C startup for you
[23:27] <mikestir> if the vendor is any good there's no reason why they can't be similar
[23:27] <amell> damn ftdi cables are expensive on ebay
[23:28] <mattbrejza> mm ill stay on the arm side :P
[23:28] <nats`> mikestir for the moment the only "correct" hal+ CMSIS usable I saw was STM32
[23:28] <nats`> and seriously it give me headhache
[23:28] <nats`> I used EFM32 their chip are awesome but the HAL+CMSIS is totally fucked (starting by the install path -_-)
[23:29] <mikestir> this is true. I'm playing with kinetis at the moment for learning and building a tracker around it. I found a CMSIS compliant header for that, but it's only really the low level
[23:29] <mikestir> however the STM standard peripheral library is a bit bulky and I actually prefer hitting the registers directly
[23:29] <nats`> I tried to find the sdk of stm STA8088FG if you see it around someday :)
[23:29] <nats`> same mikestir now I only use the old version
[23:30] <nats`> before they made this crappy cube
[23:30] <nats`> (before the unified HAL in fact)
[23:30] <mikestir> I generally don't bother with vendor libs for arm now. I have my own nice generic framework that I use
[23:30] <nats`> that's pretty cool
[23:31] <mikestir> the fact that cortex includes the NVIC and Systick timer makes that easy
[23:31] <nats`> and I understand why
[23:31] <nats`> I should do the same
[23:31] <amell> you dont like the arm libraries?
[23:31] <nats`> amell they are bloated as hell
[23:31] <nats`> often even the function name are not coherent
[23:32] <mikestir> amell: the core peripheral stuff that is part of the ARM IP is OK - basically that involves setting up interrupts and your OS timer
[23:32] <mikestir> but CMSIS includes a framework for vendors to expose their peripherals
[23:32] <amell> hmm. I keep looking at jobs at arm, they are just down the road from me
[23:32] <mikestir> and that seems to usually end up being an incompatible mess, which kind of defeats the object
[23:33] <nats`> mikestir they should have fixed more than the CMSIS
[23:33] <amell> $6 shipping. awesome
[23:34] <mikestir> nats`: the problem is if ARM started specifying the peripherals as well then they might as well just send the result to TSMC and sell the chip themselves
[23:35] <nats`> nop not the peripheral
[23:35] <nats`> but ore a way of naming function etc
[23:35] <nats`> maybe some Apple style guideline
[23:35] <nats`> or standardize header
[23:35] <nats`> because even headers are often totally fucked
[23:35] <mikestir> I think it kind of does do that, but the vendors aren't very good at it
[23:35] <mikestir> the stm is about the only one that actually meets the spec
[23:36] <nats`> you need to parse through header to make a correct register map
[23:36] <amell> cant wait for my boards to arrive
[23:36] <nats`> yep I agree stm32 is the best of all that mess
[23:36] <amell> I just need to find an ftdi cable at a sensible price.
[23:36] <nats`> I think that's why NXP made MBed
[23:36] <nats`> to cover the mess to user
[23:36] <mikestir> I have parts coming for my boards. might get chance to assemble one at the weekend
[23:36] <nats`> they didn't want that people see how it can be to play with arm
[23:36] <mikestir> still need to get some GPS modules off upu though
[23:36] <amell> funny thing about arm - i used to program arm assembly.
[23:37] <mattbrejza> has anyone bothred with biglittle yet? i remember arm were proud of themselves for that but havnt heard much since
[23:37] <amell> I have the arm instruction book here.
[23:37] <nats`> amell what arm version ? :)
[23:37] <amell> arm1
[23:37] <mikestir> arm1 was never released
[23:37] <amell> hang on. let me find the book
[23:37] <nats`> armV1 maybe he means
[23:37] <amell> it was a very long time ago
[23:38] <mikestir> I think the ARM2 was the first one that was in the archimedes
[23:38] <amell> found it
[23:39] <amell> it was vl86c020 chip
[23:39] <amell> book is printed 1989
[23:40] <nats`> wow I was 3 :p
[23:40] <amell> i think it was just called ARM then
[23:40] <amell> no version
[23:41] <amell> i used to help out at acorn every now and again. 1989/1990
[23:41] <amell> before they set up ARM
[23:41] <mikestir> that's arm3 apparently
[23:42] <nats`> ok I'm a little kid here :D
[23:42] <mikestir> I still do arm assembly occasionally
[23:42] <mikestir> nats`: I was only 9
[23:42] <amell> mikestir: this was when the memc was separate
[23:42] <amell> vl86c110
[23:42] <mikestir> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
[23:42] <nats`> I love my new scope but god I hate i2c
[23:43] <amell> yeah i had an A305
[23:44] <mikestir> I nearly had an archimedes but I ended up in the amiga camp
[23:44] <amell> i upgraded it to the A540
[23:44] <amell> A540 cost a frigging fortune
[23:45] <amell> oh god, the podules are coming back
[23:45] <amell> did some wirewrap on podules
[23:45] <amell> you guys are clearly too young lol
[23:46] <nats`> oO
[23:46] <nats`> welcome to ##RetirementHouse
[23:46] <nats`> do you want a Tea or some beverage ?
[23:46] <nats`> :D
[23:46] <amell> f.o.
[23:46] <mikestir> amell: you remember econet?
[23:47] <gonzo_> my first proper circuit used valves
[23:47] <amell> yes, I had an Econet X-25 gateway
[23:47] <mikestir> the os was horrendously insecure
[23:47] <amell> rare as hens teeth, sold it on ebay and got a fortune for it.
[23:47] <mikestir> there were RPC syscalls that allowed you to access arbitrary memory on a remote machine
[23:48] <amell> econet wasnt a wide area protocol and you didnt need to worry about network security in those days
[23:48] <mikestir> when I was at secondary school I reimplemented the relevant utilities (which had been sensibly removed) in a combination of basic and assembly language and stole the supervisor password
[23:49] <gonzo_> that would be real basic, with line numbers?
[23:49] <mikestir> the ROM calls were all in the BBC master advanced programming guide iirc
[23:49] <mikestir> yes, and inline assembly
[23:49] <mikestir> real british BBC basic
[23:50] <amell> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Brochures/Acorn_APP90_EconetX25Gateway.pdf
[23:50] <amell> I had one of these
[23:50] <amell> bidding war on ebay for this
[23:50] <gonzo_> we used to have the 'oi!' net on the bbc's
[23:51] <amell> I have a BBC in the attic
[23:51] <gonzo_> it was rs422, but the access management was by gentlemnas agreement
[23:51] <amell> it is serial number 38 :)
[23:51] <gonzo_> if someone else used it evertyhing died and the shoiuld was 'oi!'
[23:51] <mikestir> all the access control was by gentleman's agreement I think!
[23:51] <gonzo_> shout
[23:51] <amell> i turned it on about 10 years ago. white smoke started pouring out of it.
[23:51] <mikestir> even on proper econet
[23:51] <amell> i need to replace the PSU caps, they dried out
[23:52] <gonzo_> still have my zx81]must try it
[23:52] <gonzo_> if i can fins a TV
[23:52] <mikestir> I have a fully functional spectrum
[23:52] <amell> if it has electrolytic caps, youll likely need to replace them
[23:52] <mikestir> the ROM failed though so it has an EPROM in it
[23:52] <amell> the blue caps dont seem to last very long
[23:52] <mikestir> amell: I implemented the bbc B on an FPGA
[23:53] <mikestir> http://www.mike-stirling.com/retro-fpga/bbc-micro-on-an-fpga/
[23:53] <gonzo_> if you want a good bit of pre-pc nostalgia, go to the national computer muesum at bletchley park
[23:53] <mikestir> been a few times, before they started in-fighting
[23:54] <mikestir> I used to live down that way
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[23:54] <amell> fpga page - interesting
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[23:54] <gonzo_> must sleep. gn
[23:55] <amell> lol. I see in your comments, you have john Kortink commenting.
[23:55] <mikestir> oh yeah, about the prng being wrong?
[23:55] <amell> yes. do you know who he is?
[23:56] <mikestir> who?
[23:56] <amell> John Kortink. he was quite famous back then
[23:57] <mikestir> I see he has an accurate SN76489 emulator to his name
[23:57] <amell> he did a LOT of stuff
[23:58] <mikestir> there were a lot of hits from ARM cambridge subnets when I first posted that
[23:58] <mikestir> check out the design detail page as well
[23:58] <mikestir> anyway must sleep
[23:58] <amell> kortink was based in holland. he wrote some very big commercial software packages. bit of a guru
[23:59] <amell> if he says its wrong, it probably is :
[23:59] <mikestir> oh I'm sure it is wrong
[23:59] <mikestir> that particular block needs rewriting
[23:59] <mikestir> it barely synthesises
[00:00] --- Thu May 8 2014