highaltitude.log.20140505

[00:00] <malgar> impressive isn't enough to describe the wonder
[00:01] <Willdude123> Now APRS is illegalz over nk right?
[00:01] <mattbrejza> i dont think its the longest yet, and not even the furthest
[00:02] <mattbrejza> well is the furthest foil i think
[00:02] <mattbrejza> not sure leo will be deported to n.korea for breaking their radio regs
[00:03] <Willdude123> Where were the initial predictions going?
[00:04] <Willdude123> Not taking photos, is it?
[00:04] <mattbrejza> you couldnt say where it would end up with any certainty
[00:04] <mattbrejza> n.korea isnt exactly a big target
[00:04] <mattbrejza> na, no photos
[00:04] <mattbrejza> we have satellites for that anywya
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[00:10] <amell> wow re B-47
[00:10] <amell> a new pinnacle for Leobodnar
[00:11] <amell> 121 deg of longitude achieved. thats S the way round the world
[00:14] <amell> surprised it didnt give us more than 1 position.
[00:14] <Maxell> amell: hang on, it's coming closer
[00:15] <amell> eh? it is gone now
[00:15] <Maxell> ah yes packet already 25 minutes ago
[00:15] <Maxell> Should ish be at stronget point yes.
[00:15] <Maxell> I also forget this: Vbat: 3.875 V, Vsolar: 0.639 V
[00:16] <Maxell> lol it's day there
[00:18] <amell> 8533km and 5302 miles great circle. A new arhab distance record. Leobodnar takes his own third place.
[00:18] <amell> He is less than 900 miles short of the california record.
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[00:26] <amell> Leo is god.
[00:26] <amell> There are no other words
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[00:30] <amell> 2014-04-29 10:57:19 BST: M0XER-7>IZ0JRJ: Ciao de M0XER uh?!?
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[00:37] <blakangel> moxer-7 bout to invade north korea
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[01:46] <g0pai_ian> The Glorious Leader is reportedly less than amused at news of the incursion into N Korean airspace by a stealthy foreign long range reconnaisance vehicle. :-)
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[06:14] Nick change: G8KNN_ -> G8KNN
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[06:18] <DL1SGP> good morning :)
[06:18] <sp2ipt> hi
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[06:43] <daveake-tab> http://i.imgur.com/eyJDYsg.jpg
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[06:45] <ERICC> where can I get the tutorial to connect and set the Arduino board with GPS module?
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[06:48] <arko> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6
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[07:00] <arko> oh wow
[07:00] <arko> B-47 just updated
[07:00] <G8KNN> B-47 now over the Sea of Japan
[07:00] <G8KNN> super wow
[07:01] <arko> sunset approahes...
[07:01] <arko> japan should have a fun time tracking it :)
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[07:07] <daveake> come again
[07:08] <x-f> heh :)
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[07:24] <Piet0r> Awesome :)
[07:26] <Piet0r> How do you know where it is right now?
[07:26] <Piet0r> Used some open radios?
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[08:12] <cm13g09> LeoBodnar: have you see where B47 has turned up!?
[08:12] <Upu> it has been noted cm13g09 :)
[08:12] <cm13g09> Upu: I've only just seen!
[08:12] <cm13g09> blinking 'eck!
[08:12] <Upu> it popped on SNUS over Bejing last night
[08:13] <Upu> its buzzed "best korea"
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[08:13] <cm13g09> next stop, USA?
[08:13] <Upu> fingers crossed
[08:14] <cm13g09> 8 days as well!
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[08:38] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/174331_trj001.gif
[08:38] <Laurenceb_> alaska
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[08:43] <Motolization_> hello
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[08:51] <eroomde> Motolization_: hi
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[08:53] <eroomde> Motolization_: you're interested in having a go at HAB?
[08:53] <Motolization_> I am planning to launch a balloon from Jordan, is it possible to track it using aprs?
[08:53] <Motolization_> yes
[08:53] <eroomde> it's possible technically, certainly
[08:54] <eroomde> the rules for what you can use when airborne vary from country to country, although it seems like most countries are fine with you using aprs when airborne if you have an amateur radio license
[08:54] <eroomde> but i'm afriad i don't know the exact rules for jordan
[08:54] <eroomde> or what the coverage of aprs gates is like on the ground
[08:54] <Motolization_> can you please give some explanation of the method? are there any better methods for tracking?
[08:55] <eroomde> what's very popular in the uk is to have a 434mhz fsk radio that sends a gps position (and other useful things like battery voltage, temperature, etc) every 10s or so
[08:55] <eroomde> we use amateur radio equipment on the ground to receive this, and then put it into our dl-fldigi software which then uploads it to the online map at spacenear.us/tracker
[08:55] <eroomde> there's a useful overview of a lot of this stuff here: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:beginners_guide_to_high_altitude_ballooning
[08:56] <eroomde> and there's also a lot more specific information on that wiki about configuring a radio with a microcontroller and a gps to send the information down
[08:58] <eroomde> you can also see on here: http://ukhas.org.uk/ tht the second link is a guide to tracking which gives more information about how we receive our balloons
[08:58] <Motolization_> I getting a ham license soon (still training), so what's the packet format?
[08:59] <eroomde> so the packet format for our stuff on 434MHz is often (you can make it what you want, really) something like:
[08:59] <eroomde> 50 baud RTTY
[08:59] <eroomde> about 350Hz shift
[08:59] <eroomde> ascii 7
[09:00] <eroomde> the contents of it are described here: http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[09:00] <eroomde> but note you can change that a bit as you want - we have a web page where you upload the format of the string you're sending, and then that information gets distributed to everyone listening automatically so that they know how to handle it
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[09:03] <Motolization_> so the packet of each balloon is different from the other and it's up to the people in the network to translate it into useful info?
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[09:04] <eroomde> Motolization_: yes, although it's all automatic really
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[09:05] <eroomde> so before flying you make a 'flight doc' with the server ( http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/ ) which tells it what to expect
[09:05] <eroomde> then it will make sure it displays that information correctly on the map
[09:05] <eroomde> usually the sentences are very similar
[09:06] <eroomde> they're almost always callsign, message_id,time,latitude,longitude,altitude etc
[09:06] <eroomde> after that they can vary because you might have different information you want to send
[09:06] <Motolization_> oh , that's where i was confused.
[09:06] <eroomde> eg you might have 6 different temperaure sensors to send down, or a pressure sensor, or whatever
[09:07] <eroomde> the listeners (us hobbyists who tune out radios) don't actually know exactly the entire format, but our decoding software handles all that for us and sends all the correct packets back to the webserver to display on the map
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[09:08] <Motolization_> I see
[09:08] <Motolization_> are there any rfm69 guides for arduino you know of?
[09:08] <eroomde> not that i know of, but the most popular radio by far for us is the ntx2b
[09:09] <eroomde> and there is a guide for that
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[09:09] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[09:09] <eroomde> the rfm69 that they mentioned on #ukhasnet is slightly more specialized for their applications
[09:11] <nats`> why B48 is not on the tracker map anymore ?
[09:11] <Upu> removed it
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[09:12] <Motolization_> do they operate using the same principle, FSK?
[09:12] <eroomde> Motolization_: yes exactly
[09:12] <nats`> Upu because no more in air ?
[09:12] <eroomde> they have a voltage controlled oscillator on their input
[09:12] <Motolization_> pwm
[09:12] <eroomde> so you put in a voltage, say between 0V and 2.5V
[09:12] <Upu> not sure Leo said I can remove it so did
[09:12] <nats`> oh oky
[09:12] <eroomde> yep, by pwm say
[09:13] <eroomde> and then that maps to a frequency of about 0-20,000Hz ontop of the carrier freuqency of 434.650Mhz (or whatever carrier frequency model you buy - there are several ones available)
[09:13] <eroomde> upu in the man to talk to about buying the ntx2b
[09:13] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[09:14] <Motolization_> i am confused between FSK and RTTY, can you please explain the difference
[09:14] <Motolization_> ?
[09:14] <eroomde> so typically to do our rtty fsk we'll set up the ntx2 input with a microcontroller pin to toggle between say 1V and 1.2V (i forget the exact voltages) which produces the right shift that we want
[09:14] <eroomde> Motolization_: ah right, sorry
[09:14] <eroomde> yes
[09:14] <eroomde> they're the same thing really
[09:14] <eroomde> FSK is the general idea - frequency shift keying
[09:14] <eroomde> so you encode data by jumping between frequencies
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[09:15] <eroomde> rtty is a specific kind of popular FSK, where you have 2 frequencies, one representing a '0' and one representing a '1' and you jump between them depending on the data you're trying to send
[09:15] <Motolization_> so it's just a string of 1 and 0 by hopping between two frequencies?
[09:15] <eroomde> there exist more complex fsk protocols that use many frequencies, for example
[09:15] <eroomde> Motolization_: yes exactly
[09:16] <eroomde> at 50 baud - i.e. 50 bits of data sent every second
[09:16] <eroomde> you can use other data rates but 50 works fine for us
[09:16] <eroomde> on the tracking guide there's a wav file with some rtty data recorded
[09:16] <eroomde> you can play it back through dl-fldigi to see it decode
[09:16] <mfa298> there is a difference in that for HAB's we generally generate te fsk ourselves witha lower baud and shift. The FSK generated on devices like the rfm69 tends to be a higher rate and much wider shift which can reduce it's usable range.
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[09:18] <Motolization_> ok, how to check for nearby stations ? or anyone that will receive my signal?
[09:18] <cm13g09> morning mfa298
[09:18] <mfa298> morning cm13g09
[09:18] <eroomde> Motolization_: if you know local amateur radio operators, tell them about your project
[09:19] <eroomde> most of the people here are amateur radio operators who were interested to receive a balloon (because, well, it's quite an interesting thing!)
[09:19] <eroomde> and maybe ask them to spread the word for you
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[09:19] <eroomde> if you go to here: http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/
[09:19] <eroomde> and look at the uk
[09:20] <eroomde> each of those green radio-antenna logos is someone running dl-fldigi currently
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[09:20] <Motolization_> Actually I am the youngest member of the royal jordanian amateur radio society and i suggested working with HAB, now it's my job to make it happen.
[09:20] <eroomde> they're almost all amateur radio enthusiasists who have joined for fun, and they find out about it by word-of-mouth
[09:20] <eroomde> Motolization_: excellent! well, we'll do everything we can to help you out
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[09:20] <eroomde> you've come to the right little corner of the internet
[09:20] <Motolization_> I am glad to hear that.
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[09:21] <eroomde> the reason we invented all this is because our license rules didn't let us use aprs airborne
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[09:22] <eroomde> there might be an arguement to use aprs if it's available to you, but we've got quite a strong community here now by doing it our way
[09:22] <Motolization_> no aprs allowed for HAB in the UK?
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[09:22] <eroomde> whereas with aprs, because people aren't actually looking at it usually, people often don't notice that there's a balloon flying at all
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[09:22] <Motolization_> i would like to be part of this community so no aprs for me too.
[09:22] <eroomde> Motolization_: correct, it's not allowed annoyingly - we can't use our license when airborne
[09:22] <eroomde> it's an annoying rule
[09:22] <ulfr> Kind of silly imho
[09:22] <eroomde> i think it might be because of the population density
[09:22] <Motolization_> oh
[09:22] <eroomde> but there are other dense european countries where you can use it
[09:22] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
[09:23] <eroomde> so it's a bit of an annoying rule
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[09:23] <eroomde> Motolization_: yeah, this lovely community has grown as a result
[09:23] <eroomde> and people do all sorts of impressive things now
[09:23] <eroomde> like sending images down over the fsk links
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[09:23] <eroomde> which i think is wonderful
[09:23] <eroomde> anyone: where are the ssdv photos from fsphil's recent flight?
[09:24] <eroomde> with sunrise
[09:24] <eroomde> they were spectacular, i thought
[09:24] <Motolization_> brb
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[09:27] <eroomde> jcoxon: do you know where fsphil's ssdv pictures from the other week would have been archived?
[09:28] <jcoxon> i'm not sure
[09:28] <jcoxon> B-49!
[09:28] <jcoxon> awesome
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[09:28] <eroomde> Motolization_ is the youngest member of the royal jordanian amateur radio society
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[09:28] <eroomde> and is keen to do a hab
[09:28] <eroomde> we were just talking about pictures coming down
[09:29] <jcoxon> oh nice
[09:29] <eroomde> jcoxon: looks like b-49 has burst
[09:29] <jcoxon> oh i mean b-47
[09:30] <jcoxon> about to reach Japan
[09:30] <eroomde> yeah
[09:30] <eroomde> amazing
[09:30] <jcoxon> congrats to LeoBodnar
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[09:33] <Upu> its the incursion into N.Korean airspace thats making me lol
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[09:34] <Upu> flight path looks like one of those DC-3 Dakota flight paths from Indiana Jones
[09:34] <fsphil> eroomde: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/sets/72157643394259575/
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> ta jcoxon
[09:35] <jcoxon> Upu yes i better nothing has flown that low over N korea for a long while
[09:35] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, distance from launch?
[09:35] <Martin_G4FUI> I'm surprised they didn't take it out ... (N.Koreans)
[09:35] <Upu> has it gone far enough to be offically on its way back again
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[09:36] <fsphil> not quite
[09:36] <fsphil> it needs to cross the date line
[09:36] <fsphil> since it launched pretty close to 0 degrees
[09:36] <Upu> ofc
[09:37] <jcoxon> distance record?
[09:37] <fsphil> definitly
[09:38] <jcoxon> after Japan the next APRS will be US West Coast
[09:38] <fsphil> it's a good bit further than the transatlantic flight
[09:38] <eroomde> is it line inegral distance?
[09:38] <jcoxon> but the trans-a did USA as wel
[09:38] <eroomde> or great circle?
[09:38] Action: fsphil notes the lone station on the west coast
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[09:39] <mfa298> if/when it goes over the date line does that mean it will time travel back into the past.
[09:39] <eroomde> because california to orocco is nearly 10,000km great circle
[09:39] <eroomde> whereas england to north korea is about 7000km great circle
[09:40] <jcoxon> i think it is great circle
[09:40] <eroomde> ok
[09:40] <eroomde> well, still a bit to go for b-47 then!
[09:40] <jcoxon> according to arhab
[09:41] <Laurenceb_> its closing on 9000km great circle atm
[09:41] <eroomde> oh no i got confused about north korea
[09:41] <eroomde> yeah it's nearly 9000km
[09:41] <fsphil> silly map projections
[09:41] <eroomde> fsphil: thanks
[09:42] <eroomde> yes, silly map projections
[09:42] <eroomde> greenland could fit in aurstrial about 3-4 times over
[09:42] <eroomde> but mercator suggests otherwise
[09:42] <Laurenceb_> sunset
[09:42] <fsphil> another 1000km to go - probably won't be in range for us to find out
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[09:43] <fsphil> hopefully the ocean will keep it in a stable flight
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[09:46] <DL7AD> B-49 burst :/
[09:46] <Motolization_> back, so what parts do you recommend getting for a basic HAB?
[09:47] <eroomde> ublox 7 gps, arduino, ntx2b. those 3 things would be my biginner trio of choice
[09:48] <ibanezmatt13> have a browse on here too http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[09:48] <eroomde> it's run by upu in this channel
[09:49] <Upu> o7
[09:49] <fsphil> DL7AD: I've seen them recover from drops like that
[09:50] <Motolization_> arduino uno or mini?
[09:51] <malgar> how much time could it take to reach america?
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[09:51] <eroomde> Motolization_: probably a mini to start
[09:51] <eroomde> easier to experiment with on the bencth
[09:51] <eroomde> bench*
[09:54] <Motolization_> I have an uno right now but it will need a logic converter for the GPS and the radio.
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[10:01] <Motolization_> ok, thanks for the help eroomde and everyone else, chat with you soon.
[10:03] <eroomde> no probs
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[10:38] <RB> Just checked the tracker - that is some impressive distance for B-47 - is that a record?
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[10:39] <Maxell> Piet0r: The last few B-balloons also carried an APRS transmitter: http://aprs.fi/info/?call=M0XER*
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[10:41] <Maxell> 02:18:23 < amell> 8533km and 5302 miles great circle. A new arhab distance record. Leobodnar takes his own third place.
[10:41] <Maxell> 02:18:45 < amell> He is less than 900 miles short of the california record.
[10:41] <Maxell> RB: ^
[10:42] <RB> amazing stuff
[10:42] <DL7AD> when it reached half of the globle the distance will decrease again! :P
[10:42] <RB> whats the secret or is it luck... :-D
[10:43] <DL7AD> both
[10:43] <Maxell> RB: ultra light tracker, and launching ~50 of these.
[10:44] <Maxell> ultra light, ultra cheap, APRS....
[10:44] <RB> is it cheap because the board is made from scratch rather than using arduino etc.
[10:45] <RB> what sort of price is it to make such a board?
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[10:45] <Maxell> Well, the initial cost of designing the board would be expencisive. By using the arduino there is virtually no initial desginging cost.
[10:46] <Maxell> But if you design your own board and make 100 of 'em you can get the price down.
[10:46] <RB> would he not have designed it himself negating such costs?
[10:46] <RB> I see
[10:46] <RB> does he make them himself or have them manufactured
[10:47] <Maxell> Own design, PCB outsourced.
[10:47] <Maxell> You can't beat the quality over cost ratio anymore.
[10:47] <RB> I see
[10:48] <RB> how far has an arduino reached?
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[10:48] <RB> Im new to this but see such distances as fairly inspirational - arduino seems a good place to start
[10:49] <Maxell> RB: Arduino is a great platform for starters.
[10:49] <Maxell> In fact - I still use it in a lot of "finished" products.
[10:50] <RB> am I right in thinking that you could send a payload consisting of arduino, uBlox GPS module, Solar cells with rechargable battery? That is all?
[10:50] <Maxell> RB: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records You could check if the team used Arduino or not.
[10:50] <RB> thank you
[10:51] <Maxell> Arduino, GPS and transmitter would be suffcient to track it
[10:51] <Maxell> And a power supply ofc. This could be battery or solar.
[10:51] <mfa298> A lot of people have started off with arduino, then made their own boards using the ATMega328 (or similar) which is the chip used on the arduino.
[10:52] <RB> programmable in the same way as arduino>
[10:52] <RB> ?
[10:52] <RB> same language?
[10:54] <mikestir> RB: you can get PCBs manufactured so cheaply now there's no point in making them yourself anymore
[10:54] <RB> in UK?
[10:54] <mikestir> china
[10:54] <RB> do people keep their designs to themselves?
[10:54] <Maxell> RB: Most Arduinos use the ATMega328 chip. Programming the ATMega328 would be the same as programming an Arduino.
[10:54] <RB> or are they in the PD
[10:55] <Maxell> RB: open source and open hardware is very common.
[10:55] <RB> nice
[10:55] <mfa298> RB you can stick the Arduino bootloader on a ATMeaga328 and it's exactly the same, or use a different programmer and you get a bit more storage space for your code
[10:56] <RB> I see
[11:00] <Maxell> mfa298: optiboot?
[11:00] <Maxell> I still have to deploy that here.
[11:01] <mikestir> I don't know why you'd bother with a bootloader on a custom board, given that you need a programmer to put it in there anyway
[11:02] <mikestir> it's not like it needs to be field upgradable
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[11:03] <Maxell> mikestir: yeah and same with arduino pro mini
[11:03] <eroomde> mikestir: sounds like famous last words
[11:03] <eroomde> 11:02 < mikestir> it's not like it needs to be field upgradable
[11:04] <mikestir> lol eroomde, yeah but I mean by someone else who doesn't have the programmer
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[11:04] <mikestir> using an avrisp out of the boot of a car is still a field upgrade :
[11:04] <mikestir> :)
[11:05] <eroomde> :)
[11:06] <Maxell> :)
[11:06] <mfa298> mikestir: personally I'd agree, if you've got the programmer not much need for the bootloader - although I can see it as being a useful shortterm step for those learning. Start off with real arduino, then do a board and treat it like an arduino, then ditch the arduino stuff completly
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[11:07] <eroomde> in-flight reprogramming might need a bootloader
[11:07] <eroomde> for the brave
[11:08] <Maxell> Over the air upgrade
[11:08] <mikestir> that would be a challenge
[11:08] <eroomde> like a planetary probe
[11:08] <eroomde> yes
[11:08] <eroomde> a joyous challenge
[11:08] <Maxell> Did Leo already figure out how to send data to the balloon over APRS-IS?
[11:09] <Maxell> You could just OTA upgrade over AFSK1200
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[11:12] <LeoBodnar> Japanese APRS stations seem to have good paket success rate. Must use some decent HAM radios I suppose?
[11:13] <nats`> yaesu homeland ?
[11:13] <eroomde> good population density too
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[11:16] <LeoBodnar> Nippon landfall. \o/
[11:16] <iain_g4sgx> Wow, a B has made it to Japan, congrats Leo.
[11:16] <LeoBodnar> cheers Iain
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[11:19] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: high terrain and yes I see a lot of 9dBi antennas
[11:19] <Maxell> Also I think the ham radio operator ratio is higher in Japan.
[11:21] <gonzo_m> they do like their gadgets
[11:21] <iain_g4sgx> There are LOADS of amateurs in Japan, all mad on data modes too.
[11:22] <eroomde> i can imagine all their kit is fairly rolls royce their
[11:23] <eroomde> more nobu beef radio than ham radio
[11:23] <eroomde> there*
[11:23] <Maxell> And quite wealthy also so good quality I would presume
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[11:24] <LeoBodnar> meticulosly adjusted levels
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> +u
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[11:26] <Willdude123> eroomde: apparently they have weird certification law that puts people off building their own radios
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[11:28] <LeoBodnar> sounds like bollox
[11:28] <LeoBodnar> japanese love tinkering with ham designs
[11:28] <LeoBodnar> they have beautifully drawn construction diagrams
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[11:28] <WillTablet> Guess you can't believe all you see on reddit
[11:28] <LeoBodnar> a mix between circuit diagram and assembly layout
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[11:30] <RB> would you say the arduino uno is the thing to start learning on?
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[11:31] <Maxell> RB: I like the Arduino Pro Mini.
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[11:31] <Maxell> You might like the Arduino Nano for beginners.
[11:32] <eroomde> disagree i'm afriad
[11:32] <Maxell> Arduino Pro Mini and the Nano are breadboard compatible, so you can whack up designs quickly.
[11:32] <Maxell> afk
[11:32] <eroomde> if you're a beginner i'd start with the uno
[11:33] <eroomde> it requires the least amount of extra stuff to start playing
[11:33] <nats`> LeoBodnar wonderfull design I agree check this one http://elm-chan.org/works/rsm/report_e.html
[11:33] <eroomde> the whole elmchan site is good
[11:33] <eroomde> used his fatfs on the early badger flight computers quite afew years ago
[11:34] <nats`> yay this guy rocks
[11:34] <nats`> my prefered page is the technical note
[11:36] <iain_g4sgx> Leo: Maybe you could put a link on your QRZ page to spacenear or your site in case some APRS trackers look up the call.
[11:36] <seventeen> Great circle distance is North South ?
[11:36] <eroomde> his prototyping technique with all the enamled wires on dead-bug ICs is beautifuk
[11:36] <eroomde> beautiful*
[11:36] <eroomde> seventeen: no
[11:36] <eroomde> it's the shortest distance between two point on a sphere
[11:37] <seventeen> To japan though ?
[11:37] <eroomde> what difference does that make to what i said?
[11:37] <seventeen> It means that B47 is coming home.
[11:37] <nats`> yep eroomde I stoled that way to prototype :D but it's not as beautiful
[11:38] <WillTablet> WHTS THE XMTR B-47? 73 Will
[11:38] <nats`> oO
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> i was looking for a good illustartion of Japanese style DIY drawing but can't find anything quickly. But something like this http://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Homebrew_RF_Circuit_Design_Ideas/14MHz_10W_TRX_JF1OZL.gif
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[11:39] <nats`> no YL here WillTablet you can talk normally :p
[11:39] <nats`> MANGATRONIC :)
[11:40] <eroomde> http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm//wp-content/uploads/2012/08/williams-thermometer-diagram.jpg
[11:40] <eroomde> 'murica
[11:42] <sp2ipt> eroomde: the sun't rather not japanese ;)
[11:42] <LeoBodnar> and this http://www.intio.or.jp/jf10zl/430ssb.htm
[11:42] <WillTablet> nats`: was joking. And what do you mean no yl here?
[11:43] <LeoBodnar> there is just enough details and it is all hand-drown
[11:43] <LeoBodnar> beautiful
[11:45] <eroomde> standby by for mind blown
[11:45] <eroomde> 3
[11:45] <eroomde> 2
[11:45] <eroomde> 1
[11:45] <eroomde> http://lea.hamradio.si/~s53mv/navsats/theory.html
[11:46] <LeoBodnar> oh this is a good chap
[11:46] <nats`> right angle in all possible projection success unlocked
[11:46] <LeoBodnar> there are aircraft pics somehwer with a homemade VOR receiver
[11:46] <LeoBodnar> in fact almost all instruments are DIY
[11:46] <eroomde> yeah
[11:47] <eroomde> his whole site is wonderful
[11:47] <LeoBodnar> indeed
[11:47] <sp2ipt> unfortunately he stopped ham work, at least that was the state last year when I've talked to one of his friends
[11:48] <LeoBodnar> i think he could say "my favourite CAD package is Stanley knife"
[11:48] <sp2ipt> :)
[11:49] <eroomde> sp2ipt: do you know what he's doing now?
[11:49] <eroomde> that gps site really impressed me when i first saw it
[11:49] <eroomde> i'm quite sure doing it in software is 100x easier which is why i did it that way :)
[11:49] <LeoBodnar> i think microwave is his love
[11:50] <sp2ipt> eroomde: not quite sure, in august he was still playing with avionics
[11:50] <sp2ipt> I think this article is one of the newer things - I can't remember reading it
[11:51] <eroomde> which one?
[11:51] <RB> Top work Leo - enjoying watching the progress of your B
[11:51] <sp2ipt> this navsats theory
[11:51] <sp2ipt> maybe I've just skipped it though
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> thanks RB
[11:52] <eroomde> i think i read it first a number of years ago
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[11:53] <sp2ipt> it's possible - I was interested more in zero if microwave transcievers
[11:55] <eroomde> interesting
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[11:56] <RB> How much does it cost to get custom boards made up in chaina to use with HAB
[11:56] <eroomde> more than for use in non-hab
[11:56] <eroomde> export law
[11:56] <eroomde> i don't know why i'm being flippant, sorry
[11:56] <craag> RB: http://www.hackvana.com/store/
[11:56] <eroomde> that's actually not true, ignore
[11:57] <eroomde> so maybe $20 for a few 5cm x 5cm 2-sided pcbs?
[11:57] <eroomde> i dunno
[11:57] <eroomde> peanuts basically
[11:57] <nats`> RB check seeedstudio oshpark or other
[11:57] <nats`> it depends on layer you want tolerance you want etc
[11:57] <nats`> hard to answer on the fly
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[11:58] <sp2ipt> dirtypcbs.com do 10 pieces of 5x5 cm for 12 bucks, 10x10cm 24 bucks with shipping. I'm still waiting for the first batch to check quality (abt. two weeks now)
[11:58] <nats`> sp2ipt isn't it the things announced on hackaday ?
[11:58] <nats`> IIRC picture was pretty horrible
[11:58] <nats`> (all in the name at least)
[11:58] <eroomde> clue's in the name
[11:59] <nats`> :)
[11:59] <sp2ipt> nats`: dunno - I've given them 5x5cm with 6 mils separation :)
[11:59] <nats`> maybe for non precise work it's good
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[11:59] <sp2ipt> can't wait to see them :)
[12:00] <nats`> sp2ipt you have a microscope ?
[12:00] <nats`> if yes make some measure :)
[12:00] <nats`> via lignement etc
[12:00] <nats`> alignment
[12:00] <sp2ipt> nats`: will try :)
[12:00] <nats`> seeedstudio is already pretty crappy on that
[12:01] <mikestir> iteadstudio has always been pretty good for me
[12:01] <mikestir> they just did my tracker board which would not quite pass an 8/8 drc
[12:01] <mikestir> 250um tracks
[12:01] <eroomde> apple power cable is beginning to break at the connector
[12:01] <DL1SGP-1> salut nats` es all!
[12:01] <sp2ipt> I had to wait about twice as much as they should make the boards at the factory so guess they had problems with etching them
[12:01] <mikestir> 10 days from gerbers to doorstep, £8.60 for 10 off
[12:01] <eroomde> i think this has happened with every power connector of their i've ever owned
[12:02] <sp2ipt> eroomde: that's where all cables fail :)
[12:02] <nats`> yopi yop DL1SGP-1 :)
[12:02] <eroomde> sp2ipt: yes but after only 2 years of being used as intended?
[12:02] <eroomde> i've made up cables that get much rougher use than that, daily, and are still fine
[12:02] <eroomde> this is just budget
[12:03] <sp2ipt> yes, 2 years is quite fast
[12:03] <nats`> eroomde after 2 years of being used as intended you're being abused as intended, but no pun intended
[12:03] <eroomde> i've got some 9/3 adhesive-lined heatshrink that might go over
[12:03] <eroomde> shall try that tomorrow
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[12:04] <nats`> sp2ipt you want to see a really fu**ked up pcb ?
[12:04] <nats`> oshpark made crap on my last 4 layer batch
[12:04] <sp2ipt> that's why I always buy additional power supply - one at home, one in the backpack ;)
[12:04] <LeoBodnar> offset holes?
[12:04] <sp2ipt> nats`: not really, I want to see my 'oh well, I can loose a few bucks' boards good ;)
[12:04] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: good idea re heatshrink
[12:05] <eroomde> drills not aligned with copper LeoBodnar
[12:05] <nats`> https://twitter.com/natsfr/status/424578743458226176/photo/1
[12:05] <LeoBodnar> yeah, common failure mode
[12:06] <LeoBodnar> haha nats`
[12:06] <nats`> sp2ipt to make your night crappy :p
[12:06] <LeoBodnar> did it pass flying probe test?
[12:06] <nats`> yay sure !
[12:06] <sp2ipt> nats`: now *that* is a f*d board :)
[12:06] <nats`> 100% etest :p
[12:06] <eroomde> brb
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[12:06] <LeoBodnar> i have been naughty on a large panel once
[12:07] <nats`> ?
[12:08] <LeoBodnar> 6mil trace around the whole 300x400mm panel in a massive coil-like way. I think 20 or 30 turns and two test pads
[12:08] <LeoBodnar> so it had to pass the test
[12:09] <LeoBodnar> not a single panel came back with a crossed out PCBs
[12:09] <nats`> :D
[12:10] <LeoBodnar> so it makes errrr.... 42 m long 6 mil track
[12:10] <aadamson> nats`, James (laen) is also on #oshpark if you need realtime with im - when he's there, but he's pretty good about making that kind of stuff right, only challenge is your wait
[12:10] <sp2ipt> BTW did anyone experience usb instabilities with win7 64bit? I have a dedicated machine with wsjt/dl-fldigi/some-other-windoze-stuff (dell optiplex fx-160) and from time to time dvb-t dongle just hangs
[12:10] <LeoBodnar> i think it was just pure evil
[12:10] <LeoBodnar> i had a bad day
[12:10] <nats`> aadamson no problem with laen :)
[12:10] <nats`> he always answer
[12:10] <nats`> :)
[12:10] <nats`> I still use oshpark
[12:10] <mattbrejza> 120ohms?
[12:10] <aadamson> yeah, he's really good, I do lots o boards with him it seems
[12:11] <nats`> LeoBodnar that's pretty evil
[12:11] <nats`> !
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> mattbrejza: good point, i'll measure
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> i though if i get bored I can do magnetic loop comms from panel tooling strip
[12:11] <nats`> you hope to have free pcb ? :=)
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[12:11] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, is possible to get the source for your lipo batteries? I think I saw something that you were going to check on that for someone else?
[12:11] <craag> You could spec the resistance too.. to make sure they aren't skimping on the copper thickness.
[12:12] <LeoBodnar> i got them via these guys http://miniaviation.com/
[12:13] <aadamson> standard product or special order?
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[12:13] <LeoBodnar> super-special
[12:13] <nats`> order by 10Mega unit :p
[12:13] <nats`> LeoBodnar live in a house made of lipo celle :p
[12:13] <nats`> cell
[12:13] <aadamson> ah ok... so I guess drop them an email and ask for the Leo super-special :)
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> haha ok
[12:15] <aadamson> any specific way to reference it when I contact them?
[12:15] <LeoBodnar> just say Leo's cold batteries
[12:15] <aadamson> perfect... thank you! and congrats again on the long B flight
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[12:18] <Laurenceb__> was there any backlog from B-47 yet?
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[12:22] <LeoBodnar> no it's resetting when it can't get a lock
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> oh
[12:22] <LeoBodnar> which it can't above 12100m
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> wtf
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> yes
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> special ublox mode?
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> who would have thought
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> sure
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> so when did it last reset?
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> pedestrian
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> ah
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> what else?! XD
[12:23] <LeoBodnar> it wasn't supposed to fly above 9km
[12:24] <LeoBodnar> fixed that now
[12:24] <craag> oops
[12:24] <Laurenceb__> so it resets every day?
[12:24] <craag> floating too high - fantastic problem to have ;)
[12:24] <LeoBodnar> lol
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> yes it reset last time after the North Korea
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[12:31] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/180679_trj001.gif
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> going to bit too far south for APRS
[12:36] <Laurenceb__> B-47 will set new duration record in another 20 minutes
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[12:41] <Laurenceb__> anyone here know how to connect to an rfcomm device in linux?
[12:42] <mikestir> something to do with hcitool rings a bell
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[12:52] <jiffe98> I see a couple texas based payloads in the air
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[12:56] <DL1SGP> Woot for B-47
[12:57] <aadamson> jiffe98, one was in the air, I think -5 descended due to probably an over pressure event, -3 hasn't been heard from since last night US time
[12:58] <Laurenceb__> new record from B-47
[12:59] <jcoxon> Laurenceb__, is that overall longest duration?
[12:59] <Laurenceb__> yes
[12:59] <Laurenceb__> as of a few minutes ago
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[13:07] <jiffe98> aadamson: gotcha
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[13:27] <amell> rockets + wind = major suckery
[13:29] <amell> damn, just seen leobodnar is headed towards kamchatsky peninsula
[13:29] <amell> congratulations leobodnar.
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[13:32] <amell> did leo smash the distance record that california set yet?
[13:33] <fsphil> not yet
[13:33] <fsphil> not far from it though
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[13:35] <fsphil> record is 9785km
[13:36] <fsphil> actually he has beat it
[13:36] <amell> aprs in alaska? hope so. thats next stop.
[13:36] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Just managed to log in and B4 7 brilliant!
[13:36] <fsphil> B-47 is 10054km from the launch site, great circle distance
[13:36] <fsphil> congrats LeoBodnar :)
[13:36] <adamgreig> haha amazing
[13:37] <amell> he beat CNSP?
[13:37] <amell> fook
[13:37] <fsphil> oh wait I may have miscalculated
[13:37] <adamgreig> fingers crossed for a circumnavigation ;)
[13:37] <fsphil> I did
[13:37] <amell> :(
[13:37] <fsphil> 8030km
[13:37] <fsphil> sorry LeoBodnar :(
[13:37] <amell> 1K to go then. so alaska next stop? fingers crossed.
[13:37] <fsphil> 1755km to go
[13:37] <amell> Im assuming theres APRS in alaska, would be surprised if not.
[13:38] <amell> potential circumnavigation here
[13:39] <seventeen> <Maxell> 02:18:23 < amell> 8533km
[13:39] <Maxell> Yes?
[13:39] <seventeen> its going down
[13:40] <cm13g09> seventeen: we're not talking altitude here
[13:40] <cm13g09> we're talking distances from launch site....
[13:40] <Maxell> Vbat: 3.458 V, Vsolar: 0 V, Temp: -53.500 C, Sat: 7
[13:40] <Maxell> :{
[13:40] <Maxell> nice comment
[13:41] <seventeen> Passed furthest point at korea
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[13:44] <G8KNN> it hit around 8700km somewhere in the N Sea of Japan
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[13:46] <Maxell> too bad APRS.fi doesn't allow zooming out so much and still show the few sations up there.
[13:46] <RB> what is teh relevance of the comment on the tracker eg now it is "JM"
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[13:46] <Maxell> Does anyone has an indication of how much APRS igate there are there?
[13:46] <RB> do we use APRS in the UK
[13:46] <Maxell> RB: that might be extra telemtry compression.
[13:46] <mfa298> RB we're not allowed airborne Amateur radio in the UK so no standard APRS
[13:47] <RB> is there a simple reason why we cant use it
[13:47] <mfa298> standard APRS requires Amateur Radio, Amateur radio not allowed airborne in the UK
[13:47] <craag> RB: The APRS infrastructure is on an Amateur Radio frequency, and we can't use those frequencies airborne in the UK
[13:48] <RB> thanks
[13:48] <mfa298> you could use APRS on the 433 ISM frequencies but there's no standard listeners, the range is likely shorter than we get with rtty, and you can't update as often.
[13:48] <mfa298> so not a huge benefit for aprs like that.
[13:51] <Laurenceb__> there is aprs in alaska
[13:51] <Laurenceb__> and northern canada
[13:51] <Laurenceb__> if it makes it across the pacific it will be picked up
[13:51] <LeoBodnar> RB it's compressed timestamp
[13:51] <Maxell> like mfa298 said, AFSK1200 is only useful on APRS frequencies.
[13:51] <Maxell> Because widespreak etc
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> because even though APRS standard defines position updates with timestamps aprs.fi decided not to follow the standard
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> so in practice "standard" timestamps don't work
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[13:53] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: APRS has timestamps and allows sending old packets?
[13:53] <LeoBodnar> yes
[13:53] <LeoBodnar> only in theory
[13:53] <LeoBodnar> aprs.fi will ignore them
[13:54] <LeoBodnar> http://blog.aprs.fi/2008/03/on-duplicate-and-delayed-packets.html
[13:54] <LeoBodnar> Since the timestamps are not very usable, it is hard to tell the original order they were transmitted in. If the packets would have good timestamps or sequence numbers, sorting them afterwards (in the database) might still have a significant performance impact. So, for now, I'm using them in the order they were received.
[13:55] <LeoBodnar> so much for APRS "standard"
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[13:57] <LeoBodnar> so i embed my own as comment
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[13:58] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: yeah but aprs.fi has this huge database.. I would require a lot of CPU cyles :P
[13:59] <Maxell> And APRS is pretty much "shoot and forget"
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[14:00] <LeoBodnar> page 23 for curious - http://www.aprs.org/doc/APRS101.PDF
[14:01] <Laurenceb__> i dont see why it would need a big database
[14:01] <Laurenceb__> each callsign is separate
[14:02] <LeoBodnar> well they have this things where they show all stations active durin last xx hours
[14:02] <LeoBodnar> but Y U no use INDEX?
[14:03] <LeoBodnar> well we are lucky to have what it is anyway, that's a big help
[14:03] <LeoBodnar> Heikki shows up here from time to time
[14:04] <Laurenceb__> that makes a definite new duration record
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[14:05] <Laurenceb__> 189hours
[14:05] <LeoBodnar> oh, indeed
[14:05] <LeoBodnar> at least something
[14:06] <Maxell> :P
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[14:07] <DL7AD> hi
[14:08] <LeoBodnar> We need Geoff-G8DHE-M with his visualisation magic
[14:09] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: 3d?
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[14:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Just logged back in again, but the camp site we are at hasn't any phone signal!
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[14:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If I can at the next site I'll do some images but maybe a day or two before I get back in again!
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[14:15] <LeoBodnar> lol no rush Geoff
[14:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Weathe also down hill for the next week, so plenty of time in the evenings by the look of it provided I can cache the data in GE for later use!
[14:23] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: thats the current visualisation i have: http://www.dl7ad.de/tracker/?filter=B-47
[14:24] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: any idea why the M0XER balloons do not have dead reckoning? http://blog.aprs.fi/2012/03/dead-reckoning-and-horizont-circles.html
[14:24] <LeoBodnar> i am not transmitting course/speed info
[14:25] <Maxell> Oh, aha.
[14:26] <Maxell> That might be a nice feature... APRS.fi calculating the speed and course for flying objects.
[14:28] Action: DL1SGP hopes that LeoBodnar did not have to get a fancy Kim haircut in order to fly over North-Korea
[14:33] <eroomde> obviously it's a bit redundant to calculate such a thing onboard, but regardless, we used to have our payloads give a distance and bearing from the 'hepworth' (a large sculpture by barbera hepworth in the middle of churchill college, our launch site) and it gave a really useful intuition for the state of the thing when tracking and chasing
[14:35] <Laurenceb__> nice aprs coverage
[14:35] <Laurenceb__> i guess the sea helps
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[14:36] <Laurenceb__> its coming up to 190 hours
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[14:37] <Maxell> Laurenceb__: best groundplace you can have :P
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[14:40] <RalphW0RPK> In case this has not already been mentioned, there is no position on the current HYSPLIT model that has a greater B-47 GCD than the CNSP record of 10,036km.
[14:42] <aadamson> mikestir, really thin scheduler, ripe for porting :) - http://www.meatandnetworking.com/code/introducing-arduino-simple-task-scheduler/
[14:42] <adamgreig> thought it was 9789 for cnsp
[14:42] <adamgreig> idk
[14:42] <eroomde> maybe one uses earth-centered inertial coordinates
[14:43] <adamgreig> hah
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[14:43] <adamgreig> if you did a circumnavigation your great circle distance would be zero
[14:43] <adamgreig> no records for you
[14:44] <LeoBodnar> you can't beat bad luck
[14:44] <eroomde> well indeed, that's why i think the path integral distance might be a better metrix
[14:44] <eroomde> metric*
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[14:44] <eroomde> or you just give it a sign
[14:44] <adamgreig> what about if you cross the date line, does that give you an extra day of float time? ;)
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[14:46] <Laurenceb__> number of circumnavigations
[14:47] <Laurenceb__> but in that case the world record is over a hundred
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[14:47] <eroomde> i think a circumnavigation rule would probably need some minimum distance requirement too
[14:48] <eroomde> so you don't just lob something into a polar vortex and circumnavigate every 12 hours
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[14:50] <adamgreig> lol
[14:51] <LeoBodnar> or reach 90.0N, 0W and make snus server coredump
[14:51] <LeoBodnar> as it tries to plot a dot of infinite length
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[14:51] <adamgreig> hehe
[14:52] <LeoBodnar> on Mercator proj
[14:52] <Maxell> Cya B-47! It was a fun ride!
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[14:52] <LeoBodnar> indeed
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[14:54] <RB> when will B47 go out of range before it gets to the US or will it not?
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[14:56] <eroomde> RB: oh yes
[14:56] <eroomde> it needs line-of-sight to the aprs receivers
[14:56] <WillTablet> eroomde: does the path see it heading that way?
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[14:57] <eroomde> not atm
[14:57] <eroomde> but if it's happy to stay up for a few more days, who knows?
[14:57] <Laurenceb__> 190hours
[14:57] <Maxell> JL8SSD his antennafarm http://goo.gl/hvzDs6
[14:57] <Maxell> (links to Google Streetview)
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[15:00] <RB> why are these so cheap?
[15:00] <RB> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arduino-Uno-R3-Official-Board-Rev-3-Sense-and-Control-LED-Robots-Electronics-/230891429496?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item35c2339e78
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[15:00] <Upu> because they are copies
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[15:02] <RB> but with a picture of an official one I assume
[15:02] <Willdude123> RB, arduinos have an open-source design
[15:02] <Willdude123> Well
[15:02] <Willdude123> A near open license
[15:02] <Maxell> RB: watch out for the "Official Board"
[15:02] <Maxell> stuff
[15:02] <Maxell> Well,
[15:03] <RB> is it better to but an afficial one do you think
[15:03] <Maxell> If you want to go cheap you might look for the "arduino compatible" boards. They are copies.
[15:03] <RB> apart from supporting the developers
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[15:04] <Maxell> Well, they don't get quality control and might have different color LEDs.
[15:04] <Willdude123> RB, they want you to get an official one, and I'd say it's fair to support the people who actually designed it
[15:04] <Maxell> But thats about it.
[15:04] <Maxell> Willdude123: and you get fast shipping :)
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[15:09] <Maxell> RB: here is some information about the difference between the "clones" and "fakes": http://blog.arduino.cc/2013/07/10/send-in-the-clones/
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[15:15] <amell> RalphW0RPK: what do you mean?
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[15:20] <amell> in sailing, a global circumnavigation requires passing every meridian, crossing the equator and a passage of 21600nm minimum.
[15:20] <amell> so technically a circumnavigation is not possible following these rules. We might say the balloon crossed all meridians.
[15:20] <craag> Hmm crossing the equator is a big ask
[15:20] <adamgreig> why is it not possible following those rules?
[15:21] <adamgreig> indeed
[15:21] <adamgreig> I mean, I'd be happy if a balloon stuck to one meridian and passed every line of latitude to do a circumnavigation too ;)
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[15:21] <amell> it would be very tricky to get a balloon across the equator.
[15:22] <amell> "In ballooning, which is totally at the mercy of the winds, the requirements are even more relaxed. The course must cross all meridians, and must include a set of checkpoints which are all outside of two circles, chosen by the pilot, having radii of 3,335.85 kilometres (2,072.80 mi) and enclosing the poles (though not necessarily centred on them)
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[15:23] <craag> I was going to say that as long as the balloon crossed all latituds and didn't stray into the arctic circle, I'd call that legit.
[15:23] <adamgreig> craag: much easier to do that at a degree below the arctic circle than on the equator though
[15:23] <craag> Oh yeah, but given the unpredictability - you wouldn't aim for it!
[15:23] <amell> The FIA has very specific rules for model balloons
[15:23] <craag> (for risk of getting blown across)
[15:24] <adamgreig> there are model balloon circumnavigations?
[15:24] <amell> yep
[15:24] <adamgreig> goodness
[15:24] <amell> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CEAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fai.org%2Fcomponent%2Fphocadownload%2Fcategory%2F1029-around-the-world-flights%3Fdownload%3D57%3Acia-around-the-world-flight-rules&ei=46xnU7WOHIeo0QWX4ICABw&usg=AFQjCNEikuE6bRpbe0mF6tUOlax6d_9-UQ&sig2=Kz7u3cQxXprFkH3j6FHpoQ&bvm=bv.65788261,d.d2k
[15:24] <amell> bollocks
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[15:25] <adamgreig> haha, their size categories
[15:25] <adamgreig> "The smallest is size is less than 250 cubic meters"
[15:26] <amell> so leobodnars flight will qualify as a circumnavigation if it makes it.
[15:27] <amell> it just needs to make it back to the greenwich meridian !
[15:28] <amell> i am surprised ralph claims it is not possible to beat the CNSP record on the current path prediction.
[15:29] <Upu> who cares beaten already as it went to best Korea
[15:29] <adamgreig> did it?
[15:29] <adamgreig> for distance?
[15:30] <Upu> B-47
[15:30] <Upu> I'm being silly ignore me
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[15:40] <amell> what time will B-47 reach alaska?
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[15:42] <fsphil> 1980
[15:42] <fsphil> is it definitly heading that way?
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[15:47] <Upu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/188960_trj001.gif
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[15:47] <Upu> right across the Bering Strait
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[15:48] <jiffe98> spacenear needs a way of predicting long term paths for floaters
[15:48] <Upu> towards Anchorage so possibly be picked up when it gets there
[15:49] <Upu> 3 days
[15:49] <Upu> well know by Thursday
[15:49] <Upu> we will
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[16:02] <Laurenceb__> http://kt5tk.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/full.jpg?w=700&h=
[16:02] <Laurenceb__> enron balloon
[16:10] <jiffe98> what callsign is b-47 using to transmit aprs?
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[16:11] <wd8mnv> m0xer-7
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[16:21] <jiffe98> wd8mnv: thanks
[16:22] <arko> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/189758_trj001.gif
[16:22] <arko> Slow winds where its going
[16:24] <Laurenceb__> and too far south for aprs
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[16:29] <arko> Might hit juno
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[16:37] <LeoBodnar> wut? why is it fully inflated? [17:02] <Laurenceb__> http://kt5tk.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/full.jpg?w=700&h=
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[16:44] <jiffe98> maybe they need the lifting power?
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[16:51] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[16:53] <KT5TK1> LeoBodnar: This was because it didn't start floating. Apparently there was not H2 in he gas cylinder, but something else...
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[16:57] <jiffe98> why aim for 10km altitude when doing floaters as opposed to something higher?
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[16:58] <LeoBodnar> ah it's that one KT5TK1 !
[16:58] <LeoBodnar> propane?
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[17:02] <Maxell> Propane in Hydrogren cylinder?
[17:02] <Maxell> Damn
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[17:55] <jiffe98> would be cool to use past weather data to predict where the balloon's gone since last contact
[17:55] <arko> KT5TK1: nice launch!
[17:56] <arko> KT5TK1: gonna make it to ukhas this year?
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[18:07] <amell> when is ukhas?
[18:07] <amell> is this when everyone falls at the feet of the great leobodnar?
[18:08] <Lunar_Lander> October I think
[18:08] <craag> 16th august
[18:08] <craag> see mailing list
[18:08] <amell> on holiday then. oh well.
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[18:29] <Lunar_Lander> so early this year?
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[18:30] <fsphil> summer might be that weekend too
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[18:33] <arko> haha
[18:33] <arko> that one weekend where you guys get "summer"
[18:33] <arko> >
[18:34] Nick change: RaptorJesus_ -> RaptorJesus
[18:34] <arko> i really hope not for me, but i'll be happy for you guys ;)
[18:34] <fsphil> there will be water shortages by sunday
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[18:37] <arko> haha
[18:40] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[18:40] <WillTablet> Probably can't go, might ask parents.
[18:40] <WillTablet> Do I have to come with an adult?
[18:43] <arko> humanoids if you can afford them
[18:43] <arko> man, those things gotta get cheaper
[18:43] <arko> i need one to do my laundry
[18:43] <DL1SGP> hehe arko
[18:43] <SpeedEvil> Greenhouse is excellent for that.
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> Even trivial amounts of sun get it hot enough to air dry stuff
[18:45] <adamgreig> tumble dryers are great too
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> Do use pretty massive amounts of energy, and beat up the clothes somewhat
[18:46] <adamgreig> but soo easy
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[18:46] <KT5TK1> arko: Thanks. I'm currently quite busy because we've started a new company and we've plans o move back o Germany. So I'm not sure if I can make it to London this year. However once we've settled in Germany it'll be much easier to visit London then.
[18:47] <arko> :) cool man
[18:47] <arko> congrats
[18:47] <arko> i'll be in germany for 2 days, then off to austria, after ukhas conf
[18:47] <arko> im excited, visiting countries where i dont speak the language
[18:48] <arko> other than danke
[18:48] <arko> ich liebe beer
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> :)=
[18:49] <Maxell> hah arko
[18:50] <arko> radirgumme?
[18:50] <arko> eraser
[18:50] <arko> high school german was so long ago
[18:50] <Willdude123> Upu: ^#
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[18:52] <DL1SGP> Where about in Germany will you be Arko?
[18:52] <arko> Stuttgart
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[18:52] <arko> then off to Vienna
[18:52] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) left irc: Client Quit
[18:53] <DL1SGP> They do not speak German in Stuttgart anyhow :D
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[18:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening
[18:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> all
[18:53] <DL1SGP> Greetings Tom
[18:53] <Rb1203> Are there any budget transceivers that would track a hab, under £100
[18:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: CONGRATULATIONS :-)
[18:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> Rb1203: funcube dongle :-)
[18:54] <wd8mnv> rtl sdr
[18:54] <DL1SGP> Rb1203: RTL-SDR stuff for just a few bucks
[18:54] <mattbrejza> icom r10 ebay
[18:54] <wd8mnv> $9 usd shipped from eBay
[18:57] <daveake> everyone's missing the key word "transceiver"
[18:57] <Rb1203> I thought the RTL SDR stuff would not track any real distance, only good for testing
[18:58] <daveake> Rb1203, Do you actually need a transceiver or just a receiver?
[18:58] <wd8mnv> it's OK if you put a good antenna on it
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, does B-47 have solar panels?
[18:58] <Rb1203> Receiver I suppose
[18:58] <daveake> Lunar_Lander, Yes
[18:58] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[18:58] <wd8mnv> don't need a tranceiver to track, only a receiver
[18:59] <Rb1203> Of course
[18:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> Lunar_Lander: no, just small fusion reactor ;-)
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[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> :P
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[19:01] <Maxell> RB1203: RTL-SDR is used here for tracking ballons from 350 kilometers away.
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> brb, dinner
[19:01] <RB1203> wow
[19:02] <RB1203> didnt think it would be that far
[19:02] <Maxell> With good filter and decent antenna you do not need an expensive radio.
[19:02] <Maxell> RB1203: it's a bit outdated I should update it https://revspace.nl/HAB_Tracker_Station and https://revspace.nl/RevRadio
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[19:03] <RB1203> are the filters expensive
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[19:06] <RB1203> Maxell: I assume you are a teacher
[19:07] <wd8mnv> antenna might be most expensive part
[19:08] <wd8mnv> maybe build a colinear out of coax
[19:08] <RB1203> would it be better to get a dongle and filter or a handheld scanner like the icom - what are the pros and cons
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[19:08] <wd8mnv> cheap dongle means more money for antenna and such
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[19:09] <wd8mnv> you can always replace it with something better later
[19:10] <RB1203> indeed
[19:10] <RB1203> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DAB-FM-DVB-T-RTL-SDR-RTL2832-R820T-SDR-E4000-Upgrade-TV-Radio-Tuner-Receiver-/291100506417?pt=UK_Computing_Video_Capture_TV_Tuner_Cards&hash=item43c6f13931 this?
[19:10] <RB1203> I read something about e4000 although I dont remember what
[19:11] <wd8mnv> yes. that. i just ordered a 2nd one to modify
[19:11] <RB1203> whats the e4000 all about?
[19:11] <RB1203> how do you modify it?
[19:11] <RB1203> to what end?
[19:11] <wd8mnv> the e4000 is out of production. the 820T does just fine
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[19:12] <wd8mnv> better power filtering, better shielding, all to get lower noise, eliminate intermodulation.
[19:12] <Upu> you can switch the crystal out for a TCXO as well so its actually lose to what it should be
[19:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> hi Upu.
[19:13] <Upu> hey Tom
[19:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> so August?
[19:13] <Upu> 16th
[19:13] <Upu> subject to venue
[19:13] <Upu> don't book anything but it will be tommorrow hopefully
[19:13] <RB1203> I see the 820t is the upgrade from the e4000
[19:13] <Upu> no RB1203
[19:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok
[19:13] <RB1203> oh
[19:13] <Upu> E4000 was made by Elonics who went bust
[19:14] <Upu> it was arguably the best tuner in the RTL's
[19:14] <Upu> there are some creeping back on the market as there were piles of them left when Elonics went tits up
[19:14] <RB1203> so why do they have e4000 on that link?
[19:14] <Upu> so people searching for them find it
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[19:15] <Upu> its a R820T in that
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[19:15] <RB1203> thought so
[19:15] <Upu> and that dongle is crap
[19:15] <Upu> though some have had sucess with it
[19:15] <Upu> I thought it was total garbage
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[19:15] <RB1203> are there better dongles on ebay for a similar price?
[19:16] <Upu> if you can find an original EZCAP with an E4000 in they are good
[19:16] <amell> just get one from cozycave
[19:16] <Upu> the EZCAP 668 with the FC00013 in it was more than ok
[19:16] <Upu> just stick a hamamp in front of it*
[19:16] <Maxell> RB1203: no, just intrested :)
[19:16] <Upu> *disclaimed I sell the habamp
[19:16] <Upu> disclaimer
[19:17] <Maxell> RB1203: the HABamp is quite cheap for the prefomance you get.
[19:18] <Maxell> If you have a nice clear view of the sky the Diamond X-30 antenne might be suffcient to start contributing too.
[19:18] <Upu> personally I would stump up the extra cash and get a fun cube dongle
[19:18] <amell> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/category.php?id_category=61
[19:18] <RB1203> does the funcube not need a filter or amp
[19:18] <amell> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=316 now thats cheap.
[19:19] <Maxell> Upu: funcube dongle pro plus would outpreform rtl-sdr with habamp?
[19:19] <amell> shame about the frequency
[19:19] <Upu> oh yes Maxell
[19:19] <Upu> but
[19:19] <Upu> in some circumstances I run the pro plus with a habamp
[19:19] <Upu> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=316
[19:19] <Upu> thats the same amp as I use in the habamp
[19:19] <craag> proplus with habamp is super sensitive
[19:20] <Upu> habamp has saw filter as well though plus power options
[19:20] <amell> Upu: hmm.
[19:20] <Maxell> But even, the funcube dongle pro plus is twice as expencive as the rtl-sdr with hamamp option.
[19:21] <Upu> sure
[19:21] <Upu> but it is a much better radio
[19:21] <Upu> sensitive
[19:21] <amell> i must say, i eventually got the hang of a basic rtl dongle.
[19:21] <amell> its all about the aerial&
[19:21] <Maxell> Upu: having less preformance is still beter then none at all.
[19:21] <Upu> yup
[19:22] <Maxell> So for this permanent HAB dedicated setup the rtl-sdr would be suffcient.
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[19:22] <Upu> and as wd8mnv says you can do all sorts of things to get better performance out of the rtl sticks
[19:22] <Upu> the crystal is a cheap piece of crap
[19:22] <amell> put it this way, you cant go wrong for 8 quid.
[19:22] <Upu> indeed
[19:23] <amell> if you dont like it, drop it in your wicker wastebasket.
[19:23] <Maxell> :p
[19:23] <wd8mnv> use it for FM radio
[19:23] <Upu> I just wish there was a decent handheld that did USB
[19:24] <amell> still looking for the ebay deal.
[19:24] <Upu> I just got a Wouxon UV6D which would be amazing if it did SSB
[19:24] <craag> Someone needs to get an FCDpp, take out the USB interface PIC, wire it up to a radio front panel for control and have baseband out.
[19:25] <mfa298> reading back a bit, I've got a couple of R820T dongles like that and not had any issue with them (no real difference to the original E4000 I've got)
[19:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> here is my opto-isolated SDR setup: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SDR/
[19:26] <Upu> fibre optic link ?
[19:26] <mfa298> but I'd agree with all the others that the Funcube Pro+ is the better option.
[19:26] <amell> hmm VX-8DE for £287
[19:26] <Upu> doesn't do SSB ?
[19:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: yes, 1 to protect from lighting (also power is isolated by dc/dc)
[19:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: 2 to link it to my new QTH 1.5 km away :-)
[19:27] <amell> Upu: indeed :( gah, a radio that does APRS all singing all dancing, doesnt do SSB. ffs.
[19:27] <Upu> nice
[19:27] <Upu> the APRS is nice
[19:28] <mfa298> there is a Yeasu like that that does have ssb rx - similar to the Kenwood TH-F7E. but the rx on that doesn't seem that sensitive for ssb close to the rtl than a proper transceiver
[19:29] <amell> it would be better all around if airborne aprs was allowed in the UK
[19:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: here is my new home: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SDR/IMG_0848.JPG the last one with black roof
[19:30] <Upu> lots of fields for launching :)
[19:30] <mfa298> amell: better how? through innovation due to the lack of APRS I'd suggest we have a much better community and arguably a better system.
[19:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: also highiest point in my city
[19:30] <Upu> perfect :)
[19:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> well, allmost (4 meters lower)
[19:31] <amell> mfa298: ok, reasonable, however it increases costs somewhat.
[19:31] <bertrik> is there a kind of APRS at higher frequencies too (higher than 144.8 or so) ?
[19:31] <amell> i think there is uhf aprs in some places.
[19:32] <craag> bertrik: There is a frequency in the 70cm band, but it's rarely used, if ever.
[19:32] <amell> theres aprs on 6m and 30m in the US.
[19:33] <mfa298> there's an igate frequency listed in the 70cm bandplan but I don't think there's anything listening there. And in UK you still couldn't really use it as I think you'de struggle to claim it's an ISM transmitter if it's on an igate freq, using a AR callsign etc.
[19:34] <mfa298> amell: pretty much all radios cost more than the rtl-sdr. And my experience of using handheld type radios for data modes is that it's not the nicest of experiences - although with APRS we could all be somewhere else and this channel couls be empty.
[19:34] <amell> we could be talking on aprs? :)
[19:35] <wd8mnv> UHF SSB radio is kind a needle in a haystack anyway
[19:35] <craag> please no
[19:35] <mfa298> I'm not sure anyone "talks" on APRS. most people just have it telling everyone where there house is all the time.
[19:35] <craag> G4DDD>G5FFF HOW IS WX TODAY? [WIDE7-7]
[19:35] <amell> round here, theres a lot of cars talking aprs.
[19:36] <Upu> 2014-05-05 16:12:12.579 M0UPU-1 R M6DFW-9>U3TSVQ,WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1:`wGKliT>/`"57}145.787MHz T082 -060_%
[19:36] <Upu> and some dude called Karl who transmits his email address
[19:36] <mfa298> also I think aprs manages about 10% utilisation before it all falls over. would be better using ssb to chat :D
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[19:37] <craag> I often use TCP/IP APRS when going on long trips so people can where I've got to.
[19:37] <craag> But that's really a misuse of it
[19:37] <craag> Just it has a nice app for beacons on my phone.
[19:38] <Upu> I'm waiting for Wuoxon to make a handheld with it in
[19:38] <Upu> The Yaesu doesn't have a built in GPS which is like duh
[19:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> Receiver shown above is currently streaming our local 70cm repeater - open in vlc mmsh://91.123.223.227:8085
[19:39] <RB1203> hmm the funcube dongle is too expensive for a first purchase
[19:39] <RB1203> for me anyway
[19:40] <mfa298> that VX-8DE seems like a silly radio as well, covers HF but only AM/FM
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[19:47] <Willdude123> ping Upu
[19:47] <Upu> sup will ?
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[19:57] <Willdude123> Upu, conference
[19:57] <Willdude123> Not sure I can come this time. Just wanted to check do I need a responsible adult there?
[19:57] <Willdude123> Or can I just come with an adult? :
[19:58] <Willdude123> I could come with my granddad but I'd feel bad.
[19:59] <Willdude123> he sleeps through the club meetings
[20:04] <Maxell> SP9UOB-Tom: very noce raspberry pi rtl-sdr solution. Any issues so far?
[20:05] <Maxell> SP9UOB-Tom: is lighting a problem there? I see a lof or lighting conducters etc
[20:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: none. it is grounded and fully isolated (power and data)
[20:06] <Maxell> bertrik: APRS also on 430.5125 MHz in europe
[20:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: antenna input is dc-shorted trough rf choke as you can see al left bottom corner: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SDR/IMG_0828.JPG]
[20:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: antenna input is dc-shorted trough rf choke as you can see al left bottom corner: http://sp9uob.verox.pl/SDR/IMG_0828.JPG
[20:07] <Maxell> craag: here I use the UHF aprs a lot. Antenna radiates better from portable setup when biking. Also less crowded
[20:08] <Laurenceb_> what is that second board?
[20:08] <craag> Maxell: Yeah I'm surprised more haven't picked it up here.
[20:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: ah, you are asking of lighting problem in that location
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[20:08] <Maxell> SP9UOB-Tom: yeah but in general? Or is it just in case of?
[20:09] <Maxell> Oh yeah iif my vertical is also DC grounded from factory
[20:09] <amell> why would you opto isolate an SDR?
[20:09] <Upu> you need an adult with you Will
[20:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: well, it is one of the highest buildings in the neighbour - 40m tall so it is prepared for strike :-)
[20:10] <Maxell> ah that would be a good reason :P
[20:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> amell: because ethernet is not well prepared for lighting induced current
[20:10] <Maxell> HI!
[20:10] <eroomde> HI
[20:10] <amell> oh lightning protection. okay but couldnt you do that in the aerial cable?
[20:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> amell: but it still doesnt protect for induction in ethernet cable
[20:11] <Maxell> craag: less people use it. So when I'm out being QRV on aprs 430.5125 MHz no one else is.
[20:11] <amell> ive just realised that the box you showed is mounted below your discone.
[20:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> amell: second reason is, im moving soon to new location, so i can link fiber directly to my new home (about 1.5 km)
[20:12] <Maxell> On 144.8 MHz I see a lot of other people also QRV from home or in the car. Thats more fun.
[20:12] <Maxell> SP9UOB-Tom: you are going to dig fiber?
[20:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> amell: then i'll have real remote station :-)
[20:13] <amell> i understand now, but how would you get fibre to new place?
[20:13] <Maxell> Schovel.
[20:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: i have about 800 km fibers already burried now :-)
[20:13] <Maxell> SP9UOB-Tom: you work for fiber digging company?
[20:13] <Maxell> :P
[20:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: im a founder of ISP :-)
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[20:14] <Maxell> Nice!
[20:14] <mfa298> amell: with most things (including ethernet) it's good practice to have some sort of isolation on long runs (then ethernet over twisted pair is only rated for 100m so anything longer should be optical as well)
[20:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> amell: we are using microducts, and blowing fibres into it
[20:15] <amell> ah ok.
[20:15] <amell> same as openreach do here..
[20:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> amell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQJtgoHjDLI
[20:15] <Maxell> Also earth loops over cat5 UTP can bit a bit harsh
[20:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> my team at work :-)
[20:16] <mfa298> blown fibre :D so much better than fixed fibre and patches everywhere.
[20:16] <amell> i went to a datacentre where they used blown fibre ducts between cabinets.
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[20:17] <mfa298> between racks in a DC seems a bit excessive. Unless you have huge quantities of it. I've normally only seen fibre patch leads for shorter distances like that.
[20:18] <amell> this was a large dc. they have diverters in the ducts.
[20:18] <Maxell> SP9UOB-Tom: nice. I like fiber.
[20:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: me too :-)
[20:18] <Maxell> Too bad the ISPs here in the Netherlands do not think the same way about that in the Hague :P
[20:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway, in my new home there is 3 kilometers of cat 5 cable in walls :-)
[20:19] <DL1SGP> if Tom starts installing fibre from his QTH to The Hague he might dig by here :D
[20:19] <amell> I use wifi for most stuff now
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[20:20] <Maxell> mfa298: fixed fiber is OK if you have suffcient of it
[20:20] <Maxell> See OHM:2013's fiber ducts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6NCptc6dt8
[20:20] <Maxell> fixed fiber goes in, ???, profit
[20:20] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: what fiber-card are you useing?
[20:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL1SGP: there is plenty of space for fibres in Poland , no need to dig trough Germany :-)
[20:20] <Maxell> fiber everywhere
[20:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: where? in my SDR?
[20:21] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: yes
[20:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: there is TP-Link MCS-112 CS
[20:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> fiber is the future :-)
[20:22] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: they dropped by and marked the road here for fiber digging today. :)
[20:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: cool
[20:23] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: when people disbelief in fiber capacity one can tell them its possible to build 160 gbit link of 40 km for less than 20000 euro with stuff on the shelves...
[20:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: but it is not my team (i think ;-)
[20:23] <Maxell> http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net/OHM2013-fiberparty/ first two pics is me unspooling the 10 gigabit uplink :)
[20:24] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: could be a bit off... :) they install single-fiber, not a pair, and then bcx welded direclty onto fiber
[20:25] <Reb-SM3ULC> Maxell: nice drum :)
[20:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: we are selling 100Mbit GPON internet for about 23 EUR monthly
[20:25] <mfa298> Maxell: fixed fibre in trenches (or in a DC) isn't necessarily blown fibre.
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[20:26] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: monthly fee here will b eabout that. about 2200 euro to install
[20:26] <mfa298> blown fibre you just stick empty tubes in the ground then blow the fibre through as a continuous piece end to end.
[20:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: we are using 10 and 40 Gbit in core (100 gbit is still too expensive)
[20:26] <mfa298> the more traditional way was a cable with lots of fibres in it and then you patch between bundles to get your circiut (with each patch having some loss)
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[20:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: install fee is about 100 EUR (mass market)
[20:27] <amell> what is min bend radius for blown fibre?
[20:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> but only in areas with fiber network coverage
[20:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> amell: it depends of fibre type
[20:28] <amell> assume OM4
[20:28] <eroomde> ham folks, is there any HF equivalent to aprs? by which i just mean automatic iunattended nodes listening for certain kinds of packet
[20:28] <Upu> wspr ?
[20:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> amell: old multimode type, assume 6-8 cm
[20:28] <craag> There is 300 baud APRS on HF bands
[20:28] <DL1SGP> there is 300bd APRS on HF
[20:29] <craag> WSPR is a lot better if you can fit the data in
[20:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> eroomde: HF aprs :-)
[20:29] <eroomde> silly question huh
[20:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> lol
[20:29] <amell> eroomde: hey, I went to Big EARS the last couple of days
[20:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> with WSPR You can send 6 digit locator
[20:30] <eroomde> amell: cool, how was it
[20:30] <eroomde> ?
[20:31] <Reb-SM3ULC> eroomde: http://robust-packet.net/ is one try
[20:31] <amell> yesterday was good. but the O6300 didnt launch, scrubbed at last min due to filler valve issue.
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[20:31] <eroomde> amell: the hybrid way
[20:31] <eroomde> Reb-SM3ULC: thanks
[20:31] <amell> lots of people came out to watch that
[20:32] <amell> monday was quiet, nothing AP went up apart from 1 or 2, as it was too windy and gusty.
[20:32] <Reb-SM3ULC> eroomde: but i would probably go for wspr and send once an hour or something since its expensive energywise
[20:32] <amell> annoying as I had all my rockets set up to fly monday.
[20:33] <LeoBodnar> thanks SP9UOB-Tom
[20:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: RESPECT !
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[20:34] <eroomde> amell: yeah, my limited experience with launch events is to be ready to launch on day 1
[20:34] <eroomde> and try asap
[20:34] <eroomde> as the weather always gets you if you plan to launch on day 4 of 5 (or whatever)
[20:34] <amell> yes, i failed in this respect, due to family conflicts.
[20:35] <Maxell> DL1SGP: 300 baud hf aprs is nasty
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> lol Tom
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> reading backlog
[20:39] <RB1203> https://www.cosycave.co.uk/product.php?id_product=316 when using this with a R820T dongle, what part does the usb play on the amp? - do you not just connect: antenna > cable > amp > cable > dongle > laptop
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> I'd guess just power
[20:40] <Maxell> Reb-SM3ULC: oh too bad it isn't on any frequencies I am allowed to transmit.
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> Almost certainly.
[20:40] <Maxell> 7047.30 kHz USB :(
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> RB1203: the preamp needs power.
[20:40] <Reb-SM3ULC> Maxell: aprs-hf?
[20:41] <RB1203> i see
[20:41] <Babs_> yo eroomde
[20:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> 10.151 LSB
[20:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> also 20m
[20:43] <Maxell> Reb-SM3ULC: yes oh wait I see 14103.30 kHz LSB, 14102.00 kHz USB and 28148.00 kHz USB
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[20:44] <eroomde> Babs_: yo
[20:45] <Babs_> eroomde - check it out https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/14112984342/in/set-72157636929911016
[20:45] <Reb-SM3ULC> Maxell: what's bad with the 7 mhz fq?
[20:45] <Babs_> quite pleased with that
[20:46] <Babs_> needs tuning still, but that should be possible
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[20:47] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: decided on fq for next hf flight?
[20:48] <eroomde> v impressive babs
[20:49] <Maxell> Reb-SM3ULC: I'm only allowed to transmit on 7050 - 7100 kHz :)
[20:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: 20m i think (i was flying at 6m, 10m, 15m) - so its time for 300mW @14 MHz :-)
[20:50] <eroomde> Babs_: do you have gyros on the moving bit?
[20:50] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: protocol(s)?
[20:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: RTTY, maybe APRS also under small balloon - testing :-)
[20:51] <Reb-SM3ULC> Maxell: ok, that's a bummer. wpsr is on 7038.6
[20:52] <Maxell> Yep. All the fun digital modes on 40 meters is a no go. BPSK-31 same story
[20:52] <Babs_> eroomde - I have an IMU taped to it and the thing is oscillating around north. Is that what you mean?
[20:52] <Maxell> So mostly qrv on 20 meters I can do 14000 - 14250 kHz there.
[20:53] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: great, left vlc running with the repeater-link on some volume... jumped quite a bit when it opened up..... :)
[20:53] <Maxell> 20 meters rtty I could track.
[20:53] <RB1203> has anyone else had experience of the R820t?
[20:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: lol :-) wanna hear my voice ?
[20:53] <Reb-SM3ULC> RB1203: i have some
[20:53] <Babs_> then I have a PID program driving the two motors, just haven't tuned the three constants yet
[20:53] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: oki... :)
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> uh oh
[20:53] <Babs_> hence why its a bit oscillatory
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> did someone say tuning PID loops
[20:54] <Babs_> hey laurenceb
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[20:54] <Laurenceb_> welcome to oscillation hell
[20:54] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: :D
[20:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: ;-)
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> Babs_: this works
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziegler%E2%80%93Nichols_method
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> only it tends to give piss poor performance
[20:55] <Babs_> to be fair, they are all set at 1 at the moment so i am just happy that it didn't spin into oblivion
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: do You have some novice license ?
[20:55] <RB1203> Reb - a cheap one? Have you had success? looking for a cheap way to get involved
[20:55] <Babs_> was going to use ziegler nichols
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> nice plan
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> to be fair its a fairly simple situation
[20:55] <Reb-SM3ULC> Reb-SM3ULC: they are supergreat for that price. i have seven of them now. also one 4k
[20:55] <Laurenceb_> so Zeigler-Nichols should work fairly well
[20:55] <Babs_> its only really helping with the torque side of things anyway. the direction stuff is done with an alexmos board
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[20:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: im planing to setup echolink on the repeater - but lack of time
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[20:56] <Babs_> it just gives the camera gimbal something to pull against
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> ive tried to chuck Zeigler-Nichols at random complex pneumatic system at work
[20:56] <Reb-SM3ULC> RB1203: also modded one for direc-sampling. works quite ok i think
[20:56] <Laurenceb_> and given horrifying performance
[20:56] <DL7AD> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmNolu_ZUpk
[20:56] <Babs_> there isn't anything particularly complex about this system, all the forces are pretty linear
[20:56] <Willdude123> Upu, OK then.
[20:57] <Willdude123> Do they have to be awake? :)
[20:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> RB1203: catched one of leos balloons 300 km away with 820t+dipol
[20:57] <Laurenceb_> Babs_ exactly
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[20:58] <RB1203> howbig was the dipole
[20:58] <Babs_> the surprising thing for me is that the greatest force comes from the torque of the changing rotation, rather than the equal and opposite reaction of the spinning wheel itself
[20:58] <Babs_> if it rotates constantly, there isn't much force applied
[20:58] <Reb-SM3ULC> RB1203: dipole for 70 cm
[20:58] <Babs_> but the big gimbal motors can change rotational speed almost instantly. you can hear it on the video
[20:59] <amell> inertial force.
[20:59] <Babs_> despite the flywheels having some mass to them
[20:59] <DL1SGP> lol Sven DL7AD
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[20:59] <RB1203> I get it (im new to this)
[20:59] <DL7AD> DL1SGP: hi felix :)
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> beeeeep
[21:00] <mfa298> RB1203: the websdr (http://websdr.suws.org.uk/) uses rtl-sdr's (although they've been modified) I assume they're R820T's although could be E4000's
[21:01] <craag> THey're R820Ts
[21:02] <Reb-SM3ULC> RB1203: just order a few and play. you won't be disapointed. not for that money...
[21:02] <mfa298> so technically lots of people have used R820Ts and have been happy with them (although not so happy with the Java)
[21:02] <Reb-SM3ULC> RB1203: i bought 4 for 23 euro inlc freight
[21:03] <amell> are we still discussing 8 quid usb sticks? jesus.
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[21:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> RB1203: i run wspr on my direct-modded on on random-wire and could receive from whole europe with no problem
[21:04] <Willdude123> QST WHTS THE CS B-47 ON APRS? 73s M6KIK :)
[21:04] <mikestir> I've got one I used to use with a habamp. With the amp in line it's only slightly less usable than a decent receiver, but it suffers terribly if the local 70cm repeater comes up
[21:05] <Maxell> SP9UOB-Tom: yep. Dutch Novice "n": 7050 - 7100 kHz, 14000 - 14250 kHz, 28 - 29,7 MHz, 144 - 146 MHZ, 430 - 440 MHz...
[21:05] <Maxell> Max 25 watts :)
[21:05] <craag> Maxell: Simple answer to that - upgrade!
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[21:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: 25 Watts is far enough for WSPR ;-)
[21:05] <Willdude123> How does APRS actually work? Do nodes send packets with instructions to stop once it gets to an IS mode?
[21:06] <Willdude123> *node
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[21:06] <Maxell> Willdude123: you jsut tell it to get repeated 2 times and it spreaks like oil on water.
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> Repeated submissions are dropped Willdude123
[21:06] <Maxell> And you hope it reaches an igate
[21:06] <Maxell> craag: yeah - but first getting the hang of it more.
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> And then elders start complaining
[21:07] Action: SP9UOB-Tom likes smell of the isopropanol at the evening ;-)
[21:08] <Willdude123> Someone's talking on GB3ET.
[21:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> PCB washing
[21:08] <Willdude123> It must be christmas
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[21:09] <json34> What about kt5tk balloon?
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[21:09] <DL7AD> json34: kt5tk-5 burst
[21:10] <json34> Burst or battery dead?
[21:10] <DL7AD> json34: kt5tk-3's battery is empty
[21:10] <json34> Is solar powered?
[21:10] <DL7AD> both. he had two balloons
[21:10] <DL7AD> no
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[21:11] <json34> Is it 1.8v atmega based?
[21:11] <DL7AD> json34: sp3osj's and leo's trackers are the onliest i know running on solar
[21:11] <DL7AD> yes i think its 1.8v
[21:11] <json34> Atmega?
[21:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: i have had few solar powered :-)
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> Solar has no point - unless you're aiming at a floater
[21:13] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: yes sure.... but read carefullly.... i didnt know something about :P
[21:13] <DL7AD> anyway then 3
[21:13] <json34> Kt5tk is using atmega?
[21:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> ;-)
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[21:14] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, can you ensure it reaches any given node?
[21:14] <LeoBodnar> no
[21:14] <LeoBodnar> you can't even ensure it reaches any node
[21:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> Willdude123: all You have is hope :-)
[21:14] <DL7AD> :D short and simple answer
[21:14] <Maxell> You could give it an exteme path like WIDE7-7, but it could cross all of europe with that
[21:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: in fact You can - but You have to have rx onboard :-)
[21:15] <Maxell> And people hate you
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> and still get dropped Maxell lol
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> if all igates go on strike
[21:15] <Maxell> And any sane configureation would drop the packet yes
[21:15] <DL7AD> and my digipeater would short it to wide3-3 here in germany
[21:15] <Willdude123> It sounds awful
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> And elders would complain again
[21:15] <Maxell> Well we have someone around here driving his car with WIDE7-7.
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[21:16] <LeoBodnar> it does not sound awful Willdude123 it *is* awful
[21:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> Maxell: ... and 1 kW output power ;-)
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> but it works better than anything else
[21:16] <Maxell> I could throw a brick trough his windscreen I know where he is driving
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> because there is nothing else
[21:16] <Maxell> (as of the rest of europe)
[21:16] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, there a better alternative?
[21:17] <LeoBodnar> Internet
[21:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> HF trackers ! :-)
[21:17] <Maxell> SP9UOB-Tom: well it's not uncommon to just do 30 watts vhf on the mobile rigs :P
[21:17] <DL7AD> satellite
[21:17] <LeoBodnar> MObile phone network
[21:17] <fsphil> trail of cookies
[21:17] <Maxell> pidgions
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[21:17] <LeoBodnar> smoke signals
[21:17] <DL7AD> fsphil: good one _D
[21:17] <fsphil> very long piece of string
[21:18] <fsphil> failing that
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> telekinesis
[21:18] <fsphil> satellite, GSM or HF
[21:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> trail of cookies fits best
[21:18] <json34> Iridium
[21:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> gravity waves !
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> Higgs
[21:18] <fsphil> neutrino rtty. travels through the earth, needs another planet to focus the signal
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> Italian neutrinos
[21:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: Higgs are hard to modulate, use neutrinos instead
[21:19] <Willdude123> Is there any space to develop a better alternative?
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> they are better than other brands
[21:19] <DL7AD> if the balloon would drop cookies it will be shot down in best koera.....
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> Well it would be a solution looking for a problem
[21:20] <Reb-SM3ULC> Willdude123: it's bit of early times of optimistic routing
[21:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> Leo was over North Korea untouched! :-)
[21:20] <Willdude123> Balloons are a good enough problem, no?
[21:21] <LeoBodnar> Well they are just tomfoolery
[21:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> tomfoolery?
[21:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> i see - just checked in dictionary
[21:22] <LeoBodnar> nothing personal Tom XD
[21:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> LOL
[21:22] <mattbrejza> because iridium/argos is just too boring...
[21:22] <mattbrejza> although if you could make your own argos transmitter that would be neat
[21:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> they should be ALL AMATEUR
[21:23] <Rb1203_> can you connect an antenna to a dongle wirelessly?
[21:23] <Reb-SM3ULC> any aprs-listening on ham sats?
[21:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: I was try to aprs via sat/ISS from balloon - no luck at all
[21:25] <jcoxon> SP9UOB-Tom, i've tried too
[21:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: RX on ISS is hearing whole contionent, my 300 miliwatts was to weak
[21:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> *continent
[21:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> jcoxon: any hits?
[21:26] <jcoxon> you need at least 5W i find
[21:26] <jcoxon> not from my paylaod
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[21:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> jcoxon: from my home station not problem at all, but huge antenna and 50 watts
[21:26] <mfa298> < Willdude123> Is there any space to develop a better alternative? <-- sounds like someone volunteering to develop a better alternative :)
[21:27] <Willdude123> mfa298, are you implying I'd be foolish to?
[21:27] <mfa298> Rb1203_: the dongle and antenna are joining with another radio and antenna wirelessly is that good enough.
[21:27] <Willdude123> Or foolish to try?
[21:28] <Willdude123> Still stuck for final project ideas - although the project isn't in until 31 december
[21:28] <Reb-SM3ULC> Willdude123: a better way could be to use similar stuff from the ais-system.
[21:28] <mfa298> Rb1203_: the antenna needs to be connected directly to the dongle for best results. But there are ways to stream the output of the dongle over a network (although possibly not wireless) to another system.
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> Willdude123 you should probably join #ukhasnet
[21:29] <mfa298> So antenna, dongle and raspberry pi, on a mast with rj45 and power down to somewhere more useful is doable.
[21:30] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, seems interesting
[21:30] <mfa298> Willdude123: the point was that within AR better alternatives are there id someone comes up with them - and that can be anyone (although some idea of what you're trying to acheive and what the limitations are will help)
[21:30] <Willdude123> One idea would be for balloons to know where the digipeaters are
[21:30] <Rb1203_> just thinking that I could have a lot greater height from the top of my building but the distance would make it expensive to wire
[21:30] <Willdude123> And figure out how best to reach an igate
[21:31] <LeoBodnar> it's pretty trivial
[21:31] <LeoBodnar> increase power and reduce repeat interval
[21:32] <LeoBodnar> it's not a system that is based on intelligence
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[21:32] <Willdude123> I want to do something hab/hammy for my final project
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[21:32] <LeoBodnar> #ukhasnet is just the ticket
[21:32] <Willdude123> Just a balloon wouldn't be sufficient
[21:33] <LeoBodnar> It could be AT&T of the next century
[21:33] <fsphil> yea making a 2-way network using the si chips would be a fun project
[21:34] <Reb-SM3ULC> Willdude123: for example more modern systems use their position to calc a timeslot for when transmitting
[21:34] <LeoBodnar> CDMA ftw
[21:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> and with GSM voice compression
[21:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> ;-)
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[21:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
[21:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> https://www.linux.com/news/hardware/laptops/771344-worlds-first-open-source-laptop-gets-wideband-software-defined-radio
[21:36] <fsphil> Opus codec -- better quality
[21:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> or ABME 2020 worse quality but 2400 bits/s :-)
[21:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[21:37] <LeoBodnar> holy cow
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> it's uglier than Raspberry Pi
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[21:38] <fsphil> codec2 works down to 1200 but I find it's quite difficult to hear what's being said
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[21:39] <LeoBodnar> why asymmetrical fascia?
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> randomly placed hex screws
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> this is quality!
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[21:43] Nick change: WillTablet -> Flerb
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[21:46] <Rb1203_> is there a way, apart from long cable, to connect a receiver to an antenna?
[21:47] <craag> Rb1203_: Waveguide if the frequency is high enough
[21:47] Nick change: GargantuaSauce_ -> GargantuaSauce
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[21:48] <mattbrejza> or put the radio at the antenna, then put hte output over ethernet or whatever
[21:51] <Rb1203_> ahh yes
[21:51] <mattbrejza> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/amaker3d/amaker-worlds-first-dual-arm-open-source-3d-printe sigh
[21:53] <arko> makers
[21:53] <arko> stahp
[21:53] <arko> plz
[21:53] <arko> no more poop printers
[21:53] <mattbrejza> but DUAL CORE ARM!!!
[21:54] <mattbrejza> all that says is to me is that their embedded programming isnt good enough to do it all on one
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> "In-house designed controller board (non-Arduino based design) developed for richer features."
[21:59] <arko> lol
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> Oooh! massive selling point
[21:59] <arko> richer features
[21:59] <arko> like a nice coffee blend
[21:59] <arko> brings out the rich flavours
[22:00] <arko> full body roast
[22:00] <arko> hint of silicon
[22:00] <craag> It makes coffee???!?
[22:00] <craag> bargain!
[22:00] <arko> it'd probably make a great coffee maker
[22:00] <arko> 3d print with nutella
[22:00] <arko> :D
[22:01] <arko> life would be complete
[22:02] <LeoBodnar> you can print food directly into your mouth
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[22:02] <arko> :)
[22:03] <fsphil> tea, earl grey, hot
[22:03] <fsphil> soon
[22:03] <arko> nutella, bread, toasted
[22:03] <arko> shaken, not stired
[22:04] <fsphil> toasted, none of this pansy warm bread stuff
[22:04] <LeoBodnar> if you print directly over the buds it can be very tasty and not too fattening
[22:05] <nats`> spray cheese :p
[22:05] <nats`> americans :p
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[22:05] <arko> ew
[22:05] <arko> that stuff is terrible
[22:06] <fsphil> I'm going to try that when I'm over
[22:06] <nats`> arko I'm from France.... I dare you to give me one :p
[22:06] <arko> i'll be taking the train through paris in a few months
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[22:06] <arko> that should be interesting
[22:06] <arko> i hope i get Paris Syndrome
[22:06] <fsphil> the train network could be on strike
[22:07] <arko> wait really?
[22:07] <nats`> isn't it the chinese tourist syndrom ?
[22:07] <fsphil> japanese
[22:07] <nats`> yep there are always on strike :D
[22:07] <nats`> we are french !
[22:07] <nats`> we do strike !
[22:07] <arko> ugggg
[22:07] <arko> striking seems like more work than actually working
[22:07] <fsphil> hehe
[22:07] <nats`> it's true :D
[22:09] <arko> how's the chunnel?
[22:09] <arko> im looking at doing that when going to germany from the uk
[22:10] <fsphil> I was tempted to take a day trip to france after the last conference
[22:10] <fsphil> through the tunnel
[22:10] <fsphil> the eurostar terminal isn't too difficult to get to
[22:10] <nats`> not often on strike this one
[22:11] <arko> oh good
[22:12] <fsphil> should try and cram in as much touristy french as possible, annoy the natives
[22:12] <fsphil> "Ou est la bank"
[22:13] <nats`> fsphil tell me when you come
[22:13] <LeoBodnar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5hrUGFhsXo
[22:13] <nats`> I can try to get a day to make you visit some cool place
[22:14] <nats`> I'm near paris
[22:14] <fsphil> ooh that'd be cool
[22:15] <nats`> oky time to bed :)
[22:15] <arko> fsphil: hahaha
[22:15] <nats`> night boyz !
[22:16] <arko> nightt
[22:16] <arko> LeoBodnar: love that show
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> lol me too
[22:17] <fsphil> lol
[22:17] <fsphil> yea that'd be me
[22:17] <fsphil> "uuuuh .... non"
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[22:17] <arko> i dont know french like at all
[22:17] <arko> bonjour
[22:17] <arko> thats about it
[22:17] <arko> rendevous
[22:17] <arko> or something
[22:17] <fsphil> I did well at school but I've forgot pretty much all of it
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[22:19] <fsphil> the one time I got a chance to talk to someone in french I sorta froze up and said nothing
[22:19] <fsphil> I find it difficult enough talking to people in english :)
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[22:21] <arko> hah
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> i second dat
[22:21] <arko> im pretty shy unless i've had a drink
[22:21] <arko> :P
[22:21] <fsphil> I need to start drinking? :)
[22:21] <arko> haha, its all good man
[22:22] <LeoBodnar> good night, gentlemen
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[22:22] <fsphil> nite mr.B
[22:22] <arko> nighttt
[22:23] <fsphil> going to be a long wait for 46 to reappear
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[22:23] <fsphil> 47 even
[22:23] <arko> yep
[22:24] <arko> really slow winds where its going
[22:24] <arko> 50-60mph or so i think
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[22:27] Nick change: Jake__ -> smrtz
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[22:29] <arko> fsphil: http://i.imgur.com/lxW0O6U.jpg
[22:29] <nats`> fsphil le francais est un peu compliqué mais la base n'est pas si horrible :)
[22:29] <arko> hope B-47 makes it here
[22:29] <arko> :)
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[22:32] <DL7AD> arko: is this freehand?
[22:32] <arko> :P
[22:32] <arko> yes
[22:34] <amell> B-47 envelope must be absolutely knackered.
[22:35] <amell> this foil that leo is using, any idea what it is? is it completely UV proof?
[22:37] <arko> fairy dust
[22:40] <amell> Looking for decals for my rocket.
[22:40] <amell> came across this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/I-Sniff-Used-Panties-decal-for-the-person-you-love-/390832023127
[22:40] <arko> well
[22:40] <amell> I think that would raise a few eyebrows at the range
[22:40] <arko> im pretty sure Leo's balloons are made of refabulated amulite, surmounted by a malleable logarithmic casing
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> Searching can be wierd. I've managed to find porn when searching for GPS stuff.
[22:42] <SpeedEvil> And yes - actual porn involving GPS clock manufacture
[22:42] <nats`> amell weird search about a yaesu module lead me to a proctology taining doll....
[22:42] <nats`> training
[22:43] <amell> nats`: did you ask for an evaluation sample?
[22:43] <nats`> uhhhmmmm nop :p
[22:43] <nats`> i love to see where I put my fingers :p
[22:45] <Babs_> yo arko
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[22:57] <Flerb> SpeedEvil: I had that with history homework, on slave punishments
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[00:00] --- Tue May 6 2014