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[02:21] Nick change: The_Doctor -> Adran
[02:21] Nick change: mrtux -> GNU\Linux
[02:26] Nick change: GNU\Linux -> mrtux
[02:29] Nick change: mrtux -> installgentoo
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[02:54] Nick change: installgentoo -> mrtucx
[02:54] Nick change: mrtucx -> mrtux
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[03:28] <yo3iir> hi all!
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[04:50] <DL7AD_> hiyo
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[05:31] <Upu> do you sleep Sven?
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[07:13] <sp2ipt> geeks don't sleep :)
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[07:17] <eroomde> they just defrag
[07:17] <eroomde> or is it TRIM now
[07:17] <eroomde> i guess it's all built into the controller
[07:17] <eroomde> the metaphor gets hard to keep up
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[07:24] <sp2ipt> on the other hand more and more true - TRIM has limited lifetime :)
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[07:27] <fsphil> is TRIM allowed in north korea?
[07:29] <fsphil> the first SSDs I got don't support TRIM or low level erasing. there doesn't seem to be any proper way of telling it an area of the disk is unused
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[07:35] <eroomde> i think we're now at a level where we can forget about having to worry about ssd care and feeding
[07:36] <eroomde> modern good ones seem quite robust
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[07:50] <fsphil> it's painful going back to mechanical drives now
[07:50] <fsphil> at least as the disk storing the OS
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[08:04] <wd8mnv> no tracker on this one ... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/runaway-beer-blimp-loose-over-new-brunswick-1.2624506
[08:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> :)
[08:09] <staylo_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcIkHoBVQRM
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[08:13] <SP3OSJ> #habhub
[08:14] <fsphil> that way -->
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[08:22] <daveake> <-- nah that way
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[08:24] <malgar> Hi, we are using tinygps UBX but we think that conversion is wrong. Is this possible?
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[08:34] <eroomde> malgar: yes
[08:34] <eroomde> anything is possible with someone else's library
[08:34] <eroomde> best to not use it
[08:41] <sp2ipt> fsphil: yep it's painful but then again we need to spend more RAM on temporary files. I have the-not-so-good dell with only 4 gigs of RAM at work - using 1gig for temp files and when launching 3 virtual machines is real pain in the arse
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[08:41] <sp2ipt> SP3OSJ: czesc Artur, dawaj zawze troche wczesniej znac
[08:42] <BalYOLO> Looking to launch today, flight doc: 6429923691fc128160685f597bcd9d24
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[08:43] <Lunar_LanderU> morning
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[08:46] <x-f> malgar, as i modified parts of it, i'd say "no, it's totally fine and tested", but which conversion are you talking about?
[08:46] <malgar> cionki: cionki cionki ^^^^
[08:47] <malgar> x-f: wait
[08:48] <Lunar_LanderU> I just read an old episode thread of the EEVBlog and someone says "I'm not sure if the pulse gives correct rise time figures to calculate the bandwidth. I (and Leo Bodnar) did some experiments in the past, with my 300 MHz and 6 GHz scopes."
[08:48] <Lunar_LanderU> don't know if it is our LeoBodnar though, but I thought that was a funny coincidence
[08:49] <Lunar_LanderU> because it was unexpected, just clicked the episode because it said "Jim Williams Pulse Generator"
[08:50] <LeoBodnar> yeah it was me
[08:50] <fsphil> there can be only one
[08:50] Action: daveake sings "There's only one Leo Bodnar, One Leo Bodnar ..."
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[08:51] <daveake> *lie. I never sing. It's for the best)
[08:52] <SP3OSJ> sp2ipt: jak bede mogl. Ty wiesz ze ja Wam serce na talerzu bym dal
[08:52] <eroomde> maybe it's a clan
[08:55] <sp2ipt> SP3OSJ: dzieki, nie lubie podrobow ;)
[08:56] <sp2ipt> SP3OSJ: na szczescie nie wypialem z lenistwa anten i LNA od pionowej anteny
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[09:25] <Reb-SM3ULC> b47 arriving at ukraine border
[09:28] <BalYOLO> should be launching at 11, 434.5
[09:31] <Vostok> will the gps work
[09:34] <mfa298> BalYOLO: as a hint for next time, if you want other trackers it's worth posting to the list in advance.
[09:34] <mfa298> I could potentially have tried tracking, but the power switch I need to turn on to do that is now ~25 miles away.
[09:34] <simium> morning... antenna question: what to fly? Whip? a hanging ground plane?
[09:37] <daveake> for 434MHz? latter
[09:38] <simium> yup, 434
[09:39] <simium> you just leave it there, hanging? what happens when it lands?
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[09:41] <daveake> gets squashed
[09:44] <gonzo_> and it's safest to make it from flexy wire, rather than anything solid
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[09:45] <daveake> I usually use thin single-core, which bends easily. Guitar wire works well too and will spring back.
[09:46] <daveake> or the core of some rg174
[09:46] <gonzo_> put something on the end of spring wire, save spearing someone
[09:47] <daveake> I tie a loop in mine
[09:47] <gonzo_> I use a strand from cat5 solid
[09:47] <daveake> I just know that Zeusbot will use that last quote of mine
[09:48] <gonzo_> bending spring wire at the end could be difficult
[09:48] <gonzo_> hehe
[09:48] <daveake> The guitar wire does bend and twist just fine
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[09:53] <gonzo_> out of interest, how well does it solder??
[09:53] <SpeedEvil> steel wire has comedically shit resistance at 433MHz
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[09:55] <daveake> Interesting. I've not flown one yet but Leo has many times
[09:56] <daveake> Oh, soldered fine
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[10:05] <simium> thanks for the tips
[10:05] <SQ5KVS> Hi all
[10:05] <simium> (I'm at work and got called, sorry to not reply sooner)
[10:13] <SQ5KVS> Sorry guys that i'm boring, is there any problems with spacenarus server today? I have troubles with dlfldigi in hab mode and this server (can't see my receiver on map, for example)
[10:16] <LeoBodnar> what does it say in the status line at the bottom when you start it up ?
[10:18] <SQ5KVS> online, and in the logfile of dlfldigi is "upload listener telemetry succesfully" . And, few days ago everything was fine
[10:22] <eroomde> how long have you been waiting?
[10:23] <BalYOLO> guys were up, 434.5
[10:23] <SQ5KVS> hm, more than 1 hour ;)
[10:27] <daveake> BalYOLO What does that mean?
[10:27] <daveake> Latest position update for your flight was over 1 hour ago
[10:27] <BalYOLO> we have launched and our frequency is 434.5
[10:27] <daveake> OK
[10:27] <BalYOLO> that was testing
[10:27] <daveake> How come no local updates?
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[10:29] <daveake> No locally updated telemetry; no flight doc; you guys are really helping yourselves you know
[10:29] <daveake> s/are/aren't/
[10:30] <BalYOLO> 6429923691fc128160685f597bcd9d24
[10:30] <daveake> Not showing in dl-fldigi
[10:30] <UpuWork> approved...
[10:31] <BalYOLO> Thanks#
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[10:35] <BalYOLO> Any trackers?
[10:36] <mfa298> I've got no chance. only knowing about the flight after leaving for work means the vital power switch is in the off position and 25 miles away
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[10:37] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: have you considered telekinesis?
[10:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Likewise here, if I get chance to VNC in I will but probably too late by then
[10:41] <BalYOLO> Thanks MORPHI
[10:41] <eroomde> get chasing BalYOLO if you're not already
[10:43] <gonzo_> I'm seeing what may be weak tty centred at 434.5027
[10:43] <gonzo_> could anyone confirm that is the sig?
[10:43] <BalYOLO> 434.5 yep thats the one
[10:43] <daveake> sounds about right
[10:43] <daveake> I only get it if I hold the yagi out of the window
[10:44] <daveake> which I'm not going to do on a continuous basis :/
[10:44] <simium> oh cmon, like you had something better to do :p
[10:45] <daveake> Well, I could look at the ascent rate and sigh
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[10:45] <daveake> though that has gone up now
[10:45] <daveake> and down
[10:47] <mauhen> Morning all, anyone know the frequency and modulation for Balyolo?
[10:49] <UpuWork> 434.500 RTTY 50 baud 7N2
[10:49] <UpuWork> USB
[10:50] <mauhen> Ta
[10:50] <BalYOLO> Thanks guys
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[11:08] <fsphil> 2.7 m/s... going for a float again?
[11:09] <fsphil> oh 4.4m/2 now
[11:09] <fsphil> weird
[11:09] <daveake> 2.8
[11:09] <fsphil> oh dear
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[11:22] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: B-47 awoke during the night?
[11:22] <Laurenceb__> looks like lipo rose 5C and it work up
[11:22] <daveake> Balyolo Your average ascent rate the last 3 minutes is 2.9m/s
[11:23] <daveake> What size balloon is this?
[11:23] <daveake> Because you're possibly heading for a float
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[11:32] <simium> somebody call the RAF and shoot that bird down :p
[11:34] <fsphil> no signal here. how far away from 434.5 is it?
[11:35] <daveake> +2kHz according to my SDR
[11:35] <daveake> Did they apply to LeoBodnar for a NoV? :p
[11:36] <fsphil> was thinking that
[11:38] <simium> is it usual for the HABs to end up floating?
[11:38] <fsphil> still below my horizon
[11:38] <simium> do you always mount an "abort" system?
[11:38] <daveake> There aren't many unintended ones
[11:38] <fsphil> simium: not usually no
[11:39] <fsphil> floating flights are rarely recovered
[11:39] <daveake> Some deliberate ones
[11:39] <daveake> A deliberate floater is one you don't expect to get back
[11:39] <fsphil> indeed. built to a budget :)
[11:39] <simium> "there goes my money"
[11:39] <daveake> The idea is usually to get it to float as long as possible, or as far away as possible
[11:40] <simium> good to know
[11:40] <daveake> Well, a launch you get back is probably £200 anyway, so the loss of a £50 payload isn't a big increase
[11:41] <Laurenceb__> http://pics.nase-bohren.de/great-idea.jpg/1398858073
[11:41] <simium> you mean ¬200 in balloon, helium and such? (sorry, I don't have a pound key)
[11:42] <simium> those are like fixed costs, right?
[11:43] <simium> Laurenceb__ you want derailed trains? cause that's how you get derailed trains
[11:44] <fsphil> wish they where fixed. the price of helium has been increasing fairly steadly
[11:45] <fsphil> I think that's the point of the image
[11:47] <simium> any of you using or planning to use hydrogen?
[11:48] <fsphil> no payload doc?
[11:48] <fsphil> I'm hoping to use H2 in future flights
[11:48] <fsphil> a few already do
[11:49] <daveake> simium For an average latex flight you've got £60 for the balloon and £90 for the helium. The other £50 should cover petrol and consumables
[11:50] <daveake> Of course, if the flight is lost, costs go up somewhat ...
[11:50] <fsphil> got a 480hz signal. guessing 7-bit no parity
[11:50] <fsphil> good quess. getting partials
[11:50] <daveake> So that's the per-flight cost, on top of the tracker, cameras, receiver, aerials etc
[11:51] <daveake> fsphil yeah mine is set to 480Hz, USB, 7, N, 2
[11:51] <simium> as long as you get back the payload it's an "affordable" hobby :)
[11:51] <fsphil> tell that to LeoBodnar :)
[11:52] <fsphil> the only person with a worse recovery rate than me I suspect
[11:52] <simium> haha
[11:52] <simium> what's your recovery rate?
[11:53] <fsphil> 4/9
[11:53] <gonzo_> I find that pico (tracker only) flights, the cost of derv well outweighs the vale of the payload
[11:53] <gonzo_> value
[11:54] <fsphil> sorry, 3/9
[11:54] <simium> oops
[11:54] <fsphil> however only one of those non-recoveries was intentional
[11:55] <fsphil> rephrase
[11:55] <fsphil> only one of those non-recoveries was un-intentional
[11:55] <fsphil> it was underfilled and landed in the yorkshire dales
[11:55] <fsphil> well, it was sort of intentional
[11:56] <fsphil> I took a risk that someone might find it
[11:58] <simium> aha
[11:58] <simium> you mean you intended not to search but to wait for someone call you "hey, I found your whatever this is"
[11:58] <fsphil> yea
[11:58] <fsphil> but the dales is a horrible place to land
[11:59] <fsphil> it's vast. lots of hills and few people nearby
[12:00] <simium> it's awesome how much space is actually empty... although one of the things that scare me most is the safety of the landing (I don't want it to crash on someone's head or someone's car)
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[12:00] <fsphil> that's why we cover them in polystyrene and use a good sized parachute
[12:01] <fsphil> and make sure there are no "spikes of death"
[12:01] <fsphil> nice soft flexable antennas
[12:01] <daveake> I only know of one on-car landing
[12:01] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/P1050268-e1346709067625-682x1024.jpg
[12:01] <fsphil> yes, an alternative to polystyrene is a teddybear
[12:02] <simium> hehehe
[12:02] <daveake> 3.75m/s average now
[12:02] <mattbrejza> is the teddy a nasa collaborator?
[12:02] <fsphil> it'll be close
[12:02] <fsphil> hah
[12:03] <simium> I was told to get an insurance, just in case something goes south
[12:03] <daveake> Depends on the balloon but that could still float
[12:04] <mfa298> at a guess it could be a similar balloon and payload to the last one they floated by accident
[12:04] <mattbrejza> is the intention to retrieve?
[12:04] <mattbrejza> they have a lot of country to aim for if it drifts for a while
[12:06] <fsphil> Max. Altitude: 21640405 m
[12:06] <fsphil> that's a new one
[12:07] <mattbrejza> 735m/s ascent
[12:07] <fsphil> I've deleted that point on spacenear
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[12:08] <daveake> Balymexicana
[12:09] <fsphil> sounds like a village not far from here
[12:09] <daveake> haah
[12:11] <SilverIV7> Got my HAB tracking circuit complete yesterday, gps & radio both working! What do you think? https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/10268599_10152302350031195_6823659887001895975_n.jpg
[12:11] <fsphil> deleted the point but it seems to be persisting on spacenear
[12:11] <fsphil> ah gone now
[12:13] <fsphil> signal gone here
[12:15] <fsphil> coming back now
[12:15] <fsphil> weird
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[12:17] <Lunar_LanderU> new world record :P
[12:18] <craag> Won't stand for long, the mexicans will beat it within a month ;)
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[12:21] <fsphil> 17% the average distance to the moon
[12:21] <fsphil> lol, random google search result: "If the MOON is 384,000km away, why do I see it during the daytime in our blue sky, in our atmosphere?"
[12:22] <mattbrejza> if you look hard enough theres a black disk around it due to it actually not being in our atmosphere...
[12:22] <fsphil> the internet, a network containing a vast collection of information that people use to ask stupid questions
[12:23] <daveake> Imagine if aliens were looking for intelligent life on other planets, and found our internet first
[12:26] <LazyLeopard> What's the betting their equivalent would be just as full?
[12:33] <gonzo_> the first thing they would get is radio/TV broadcasts. If they saw UK daytime TV, they would just move on to the next system
[12:34] <UpuWork> bearded people if I wanted to talk on 2m would I pick 145.200-145.5935 ?
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[12:34] <craag> UpuWork: Yeah, with 145.5 as the calling channel
[12:34] <UpuWork> cheers
[12:34] <craag> I tend to use 145.3 - 145.5
[12:35] <UpuWork> thanks
[12:36] <UpuWork> on 70cms
[12:36] <UpuWork> 438+ ?
[12:36] <mfa298> does this mean you're planning on connecting a mic to your 817
[12:36] <UpuWork> heck no
[12:36] <UpuWork> I have a new Wouxon
[12:37] <UpuWork> which is probably going to end up being a APRS igate if it works
[12:37] <UpuWork> amusingly when I plug it into the PC it just keys up
[12:37] <UpuWork> must have held my local repeater open for about 3 mins before I noticed
[12:37] <UpuWork> :/
[12:38] <craag> Well you've used up its traffic quota for today then!
[12:38] <UpuWork> as a good demonstration of how few people use it at this time of day I then called up and apologised with my call sign and recieved no response
[12:38] <craag> Yeah 438.0 - 438.4 I think is fine
[12:38] <UpuWork> other than the repeater morse ident
[12:39] <craag> Not used simplex on 70cm... ever
[12:39] <UpuWork> well just in case we are doing balloon recovery with 2 teams
[12:39] <UpuWork> you get 25khz to play with think of the quality
[12:39] <craag> heh
[12:39] <mfa298> 70cm fm is aroound 433.500 (that's the calling channel)
[12:40] <craag> You'll have to be hab-amped to the hilt to not deafen the RXs
[12:40] <UpuWork> suspect will be 2 meters
[12:40] <mfa298> although the chances of finding anyone around there are slim
[12:40] <craag> Even on 2 I think, if you're using magmount antennas.
[12:40] <gonzo_> the rx on those hhelds are bretty nice actually
[12:40] <gonzo_> very sensitive
[12:40] <craag> mfa298 and I tried it once didn't we?
[12:41] <craag> 2m comms while rxing hab?
[12:41] <mfa298> quite possibly. I can remember testing with M0NSA and one or two others with my radio on the parcel shelf of my car outside the flat
[12:41] <gonzo_> put it through a decent diplexer and you may be able to do it
[12:41] <gonzo_> on the same ant
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[12:42] <craag> I was looking diplexers recently for another project, they're about 60dB of isolation.
[12:43] <mfa298> I think balloon recovery we've just used 2m fm, between vehicles. and I've used a kenwood handy with its rubber duck when the 817 has been tracking
[12:43] <craag> That plus a decent frontend should be ok
[12:43] <craag> mfa298: Ah cool, maybe have been in my car with slightly more than 5W on 2m
[12:44] <craag> Plus the 5/8 on the roof - next to the 70cm magmount
[12:44] <daveake> balyolo 4.1m/s over last 4 mins
[12:44] <daveake> could go either way
[12:44] <mfa298> we had problems a few years ago when we all went up to didcot in several cars with andrew trying to track something.
[12:44] <daveake> I suspect it'll burst rather than float
[12:45] <fsphil> I've used 2m when chasing with another amateur radio dude
[12:45] <mfa298> I think all our 2m radios knocked out his 70cm reception
[12:45] <craag> mfa298: Yeah that's the one I'm thinking of
[12:45] <fsphil> ft817 doing the tracking- wasn't phased at all
[12:45] <gonzo_> I have on on my colinear, as there are PA/LNAs in the shed for each band. Also I have one on my 70cm yagi, as a filter. As the LNA was getting flattened by 2mtrs (not the harmonic, just the high rf field)
[12:45] <craag> fsphil: fair does :)
[12:45] <fsphil> 6m is a nice empty band
[12:45] <fsphil> we should use that more
[12:45] <craag> mm
[12:46] <gonzo_> and 4mtrs
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[12:46] <craag> Although my car looks ridiculous enough with the 2m 5/8 on it!
[12:46] <fsphil> yea 70mhz is an option now
[12:46] <craag> Would be dwarfed by a 6m 1/4 wave.
[12:46] <mfa298> if we went for 6m I might have to dig out the old 6/2/70 icom handy.
[12:46] <gonzo_> a 5/8 for 2mtrs is pretty much a 1/4 loaded whip on 6mtrs
[12:46] <mfa298> I don't think I've ever done anything with 6m on that handy
[12:47] <craag> gonzo_: Yep, 1.2:1 , better match than on 2m!
[12:47] <fsphil> I've made a few calls on 6m. no response :)
[12:47] <gonzo_> I have 70mhz in the car
[12:47] <fsphil> I really have that entire band to myself
[12:47] <craag> mfa298: You lent it to me to test, and I knocked out my housemate's telly reception
[12:47] <gonzo_> anything better than 10db return loss is good enough
[12:48] <daveake> bursty
[12:49] <UpuWork> yup
[12:49] <fsphil> awww, Bob Hoskins RIP
[12:49] <daveake> yup :(
[12:49] <eroomde> fsphil: aaaaages ago
[12:49] <eroomde> oh no
[12:49] <eroomde> not ages agio
[12:49] <fsphil> yesterday
[12:50] <eroomde> who died ages ago who i'm confusing with bob hoskins?
[12:50] <fsphil> who've you mixed him up with?
[12:50] <fsphil> bob monkhouse?
[12:51] <eroomde> david frost or mel smith
[12:51] <eroomde> or maybe richard griffiths
[12:52] <daveake> pie in the belly
[12:53] <simium> not HAB related but UAV related... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq6A17_rpQY
[12:53] <fsphil> http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/2014/0429-uranus-spied-by-cassini.html
[12:53] <simium> I'm dying
[12:55] <fsphil> signal gone
[12:55] Action: fsphil goes back to 434.500, turns RSID on and waits ....
[12:57] <PE2G> fsphil: You're hoping for a B flight?
[12:58] <fsphil> it is inevitable
[12:58] <PE2G> Which one?
[12:58] <daveake> Leo has a hive of them
[13:00] <UpuWork> err
[13:00] <UpuWork> did it just die ?
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[13:02] <junderwood> Did someone pull the plug on Bayolo or is it frequency hopping?
[13:03] <LeoBodnar> Frequency hoping?
[13:03] <mattbrejza> http://i.imgur.com/nNZGBLz.png UpuWork
[13:03] <mattbrejza> yes
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[13:04] <G4MYA-Andy> BALOLO off air mid stream?
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[13:04] <mattbrejza> it died 1min before you joined :P
[13:04] <mfa298> looking at the battery graph on habmap it looks like it may have run out of juice
[13:05] <gonzo_> died mid packet here
[13:05] <G4MYA-Andy> both my trackers lost it mid stream of 805 cant belive two aerials 10M vertically apart lose it same time
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[13:05] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[13:05] <gonzo_> what is on the payload? Did they want it back?
[13:05] <G4MYA-Andy> shame !
[13:06] <junderwood> habmap?
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[13:06] <UpuWork> how long was it turned on ?
[13:06] <daveake> and were they new batteries?
[13:06] <mattbrejza> http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/56b34c55f2e0a07a2bb21e892787680e#g/batterymv
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[13:06] <daveake> It was on the map 1 hours or so before launch
[13:06] <G4MYS-Andy> better sihn in under my own call not G4MYA !!
[13:07] <daveake> So it started at 2.7V? Sounds like old batteries
[13:07] <G4MYS-Andy> this is known as "Doing a Radio Caroline " - going off air without warning!
[13:08] <gonzo_> or high drain on them
[13:08] <junderwood> mattbrejza, nice. Someone should put a link to it from habhub.org
[13:08] <mattbrejza> it was reporting ~180 on the ground before launch, then ~2700 in the air
[13:09] <mattbrejza> http://habmap.philcrump.co.uk/ is habmap
[13:09] <mattbrejza> none of these are mine btw
[13:09] <G4MYS-Andy> from log of G4MYS nd same of G4MYS-2 last heard : $$$$$BALYOLO,805,13:00:10,51.658903x^y
[13:13] <junderwood> $$$$$BALYOLO,805,13:00:10,51.658903U 8r 3%#@7L(#_n[((@ 2<it\(L|.d
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[13:14] <fsphil> 2<it indeed
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[13:15] <mattbrejza> that radio dies in a very sudden way
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[13:16] <G4MYS-Andy> sorry technical prob here too! back again!!!
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[13:17] <mattbrejza> G4MYS-Andy: you were asking about tablets for the app?
[13:17] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[13:18] <chrisg7ogx> wondered why i lost the sigs so quickly
[13:19] <craag> I was hoping there was something wrong with that battery readout
[13:19] <daveake> yeah
[13:19] <G4MYS-Andy> Mattbrajza yes yestreday I was and am very much still interested
[13:19] <mauhen> This was my second successful tracking :)
[13:19] <mattbrejza> i use a motorola xoom (the original one)
[13:20] <UpuWork> cool mauhen signal was nice on this one
[13:20] <mattbrejza> and i think craag says it works on a nexus 7
[13:20] <UpuWork> until the battery died
[13:20] <craag> G4MYS-Andy: Works great on a nexus 7
[13:20] <craag> or did
[13:20] <craag> until I left said nexus 7 on the car roof during the last chase
[13:20] <mattbrejza> hehe
[13:20] <daveake> oops
[13:20] <G4MYS-Andy> Mattbrejza and Craag manythanks Ill investigate the Nexus 7 I have heard of that one!
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[13:21] <mattbrejza> probably the best option, tablets can be weird with their audio in
[13:21] <mattbrejza> and i cba to program bluetooth soundcards
[13:26] <G4MYS-Andy> Well yes the audio in I guess bit alkward, but work in electrinics industry one of the things we make is cable assebblies so think I can manage to make a cable to link tablet to radio
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[13:26] <craag> G4MYS-Andy: Diagram here: http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:hab_modem
[13:26] <craag> Very easy!
[13:27] <mattbrejza> my phone uses the headphone in for a bit, then does a weird thing and switches to the internal mic
[13:27] <craag> mattbrejza: Is the wiring on that diagram correct?
[13:27] <mattbrejza> it also can crash on the phone with a low level audio driver issue
[13:28] <craag> GND appears to be connected to signal
[13:28] <mattbrejza> no idea where to start on that one
[13:28] <craag> and vice versa
[13:28] <G4MYS-Andy> Craag many thanks Ive saved that for reference once Ive tracked down the tablet!
[13:28] <mattbrejza> yea gnd isnt the 'outer' conductor
[13:28] <craag> mattbrejza: Ah I see (wat...)
[13:28] <G4MYS-Andy> Ground not the other conductor?!
[13:29] <craag> G4MYS-Andy: Yeah... look at the diagram - weird
[13:29] <mattbrejza> well on stereo connectors the mating location for gnd is where the gnd is on the 3 pole one
[13:29] <mattbrejza> so its backwards compatible
[13:29] <mattbrejza> (if that made any sense)
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[13:31] <chrisg7ogx> what software would you be using on the nexus 7 tablet?
[13:31] <G4MYS-Andy_> sorry got chucked out!?
[13:31] <G4MYS-Andy_> Chris software yet to sort out any thoughts
[13:31] <craag> chrisg7ogx: HAB Modem and Tracker
[13:31] <mfa298> chrisg7ogx: there's the android hab modem and tracker
[13:32] <craag> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.brejza.matt.habmodem
[13:32] <craag> Has built-in decoder from audio, offline plotting and mapping, as well as sync with habhub
[13:33] <chrisg7ogx> ok i was wondering about SDR Touch?
[13:33] <chrisg7ogx> i see hab modem all in much easier to use
[13:34] <craag> SDR touch would get you RF in (from a dongle) and audio out
[13:34] <chrisg7ogx> ...and I have it installed!!
[13:34] <mfa298> you might need both if you wanted to be purely tablet based tracking
[13:34] <craag> HAB Modem is Audio in, data and mapping out
[13:34] <mfa298> although getting hab modem to talk to sdr touch might not be so easy
[13:34] <DL7AD> hi
[13:35] <chrisg7ogx> weather warning for tomorrow
[13:35] <G4MYS-Andy_> Chris G7OGX yes this looks like the sort of thing I am after the question being with the dongle as to if its fast enough, was under the impression from sales bloke they are slow what you say?
[13:36] <chrisg7ogx> nexus slow?
[13:36] <chrisg7ogx> probably trying to get you to buy Ipad!!
[13:37] <G4MYS-Andy_> no not the nexus the usb dongel to 3G adaptor!
[13:37] <G4MYS-Andy_> nop dont want Ipad!
[13:38] <chrisg7ogx> oh talking about the vagaries of the internet
[13:39] <G4MYS-Andy_> was after Android tablet ... but listning to opions from you boys as to waht will do the trick rather then some sales guy who wants to mazimize his sale!
[13:39] <daveake> I have a Nexus 7 (not current model) and it's great
[13:40] <chrisg7ogx> SDR TOUCH V 1.7 has good help file link to sdr.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/rtl-sdr
[13:40] <chrisg7ogx> ditto..and ditto
[13:41] <chrisg7ogx> power from usb provided by nexus 7 some 'phones don't
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[13:43] <G4MYS-Andy_> OK Many thanks noted lads Ill go look and have a think Andy G4MYS
[13:43] <chrisg7ogx> cutting grass byeeee
[13:43] <G4MYS-Andy_> l dah de dah!
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[13:47] <aadamson> whats that new RTL based SDR that I've heard some talk about
[13:47] <BalYOLO> Back up GPS kicked in at 1000m so recovery team are on their way to the landing site
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[13:48] <UpuWork> good BalYOLO
[13:48] <UpuWork> someone didn't change the batteries ?
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[14:06] <Reb-SM3ULC> aadamson: new?
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[14:15] <BalYOLO> Will verify what happened to the main GPS; possibly we lost the antenna during the descent as it was coming down at quite a pace; but we'll check the state of the batteries etc. Payload has been successfully recivered about 0.8 km from the last predicted landing area.
[14:16] <eroomde> any signal or was it dead?
[14:16] <eroomde> on arrival
[14:16] <UpuWork> BalYOLO reported battery was discharged on the last line
[14:16] <craag> Looking at the battery graph - there's no question
[14:16] <daveake> yup
[14:16] <UpuWork> and it was a very clear cut off
[14:17] <UpuWork> transmission just stopped mid sentence
[14:17] <UpuWork> should be 10-12 hours from a set of Energizer Lithiums
[14:17] <gonzo_> the last dregs of batt were enough to re-tx once they warmed?
[14:17] <daveake> Either used cells or not Lithium Energizers
[14:17] <UpuWork> possibly but I doubt they will last for very long
[14:18] <BalYOLO> I agree; will check the log to see if the batteries were changed prior to launch; didn't re-boot - we have a second unit on board which works via SMS - once we're below ~1000m it sends texts every 30s of the payload co-ordinates
[14:19] <eroomde> you should always fly on fresh batteries...
[14:20] <gonzo_> that's probably number three on the list of must-do's
[14:21] <eroomde> thank god you had the backup
[14:21] <craag> (and had fresh batteries in the backup I hope)
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[14:22] <eroomde> well i think the various yolos have quite fully explored the hab failure-space now
[14:23] <eroomde> so hopefully there can be some working end-to-end flights soon
[14:23] <UpuWork> haha will quote on you on that
[14:24] <eroomde> well short of alien abduction
[14:25] <eroomde> i'm trying to use the sort of language that would be at home in an ESA report
[14:25] <eroomde> we have successfully characterized the failure space
[14:25] <daveake> Balloon escaping without tracker? Don't think they've done that one yet
[14:25] <Laurenceb__> Can hyperscale computing eclipse enterprise storage?
[14:26] <eroomde> that is the question
[14:26] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb__: It really needs 'cloudified' in there.
[14:26] <craag> My favourite: "Should we move it to the cloud?"
[14:26] <gonzo_> there was the email thread about how habs fail. But there should be a list of absolute muststo have a chance of success. Prob on the beginners guide, in big friendly letters
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[14:27] <UpuWork> getting the correct date on the flight doc is always a winner too
[14:28] <eroomde> i think really the way to succeed is to forget that there's a whole tracking network and wiki guides to everything
[14:28] <eroomde> just act like you're the only person receiving it
[14:28] <eroomde> and that it's not going to work unless you understand it
[14:28] <eroomde> that ensures you are receiving, that you chase, that you understand how your flight computer works, and so on
[14:28] <eroomde> that you actually calculate how much gas to put in
[14:29] <daveake> I remember on my first flight being surprised that anyone else was tracking
[14:29] <eroomde> all the basics that seem weren't a problem back when that was the case
[14:29] <eroomde> but now that hab is easy, people seem to find harder
[14:29] <daveake> especially from foreign countries such as NI and Yorkshire
[14:30] <eroomde> http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/04/30/us-astronauts-should-use-trampolines-to-get-into-space-russian-official-says/
[14:31] <aadamson> Reb-SM3ULC, yeah, someone had taking an rtl chip and redid the dongle - the not the funcube, and I can't remember what it's called... just recently.
[14:33] <craag> aadamson: airspy?
[14:33] <gonzo_> I still think the fcd mk2 will take some beating for the price/size
[14:33] <aadamson> craag, - that's it
[14:34] <gonzo_> better adc that the bare rtl chips and onboard lna/filters for the AR bands
[14:35] <craag> All I'm missing is a desktop/battery-powered RX with the RF performance of the fcdpp
[14:36] <craag> ie FCD usable without a laptop
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[14:39] <gonzo_> the wide bandwiidth and spectrum display is the main advantage for sdr for me. So without some display device, you may as well have an ssb analigue IF strip
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[14:39] <craag> Oh yeah you have a little colour screen on the front with spectrum display :)
[14:40] <craag> Have you seen M0NKA's HF rig?
[14:41] <aadamson> so take an STM32F429Disco and use it for the display/control, and port some modems too it :)
[14:41] <aadamson> it's just a matter of time til someone does that
[14:41] <craag> aadamson: Take a look at http://www.m0nka.co.uk/ .....
[14:41] <mfa298> some of the faster arm boards could work nicely with an sdr dongle - like the Banana Pi (no relation to the raspberry apart from blatantly trying to capitalise on it)
[14:42] <craag> specifically http://www.m0nka.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/mchf_block1.pdf
[14:42] <aadamson> hehe... there ya go STM32F4
[14:43] <craag> All completely open source, schematics, gerbers and firmware!
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[14:43] <UpuWork> I'd be interested to see if they can get away with using the name Banana Pi for long
[14:44] <craag> Demo Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbgtce2u85A
[14:44] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbgtce2u85A
[14:44] <craag> snap ;)
[14:44] <eroomde> 3d printing shouldn't be socially acceptable until it gets much better
[14:44] <eroomde> that case is *horrible*
[14:44] <craag> yeah... that makes it look rubbish
[14:44] <craag> display though...
[14:45] <gonzo_> I can't see what all the hype about 3d printing is all about
[14:46] <F5NIQ> hello
[14:46] <UpuWork> hi F5NIQ
[14:46] <UpuWork> which radio is that craag ?
[14:46] <UpuWork> case is nasty
[14:47] <craag> UpuWork: mcHF I think it's called. An open-source HF transceiver based on stm32f4
[14:47] <gonzo_> someone at work was all enthused about it recently. I mentioned that a new technique was about to overshadow it. Where you take a block of plastoc/metal/etc, and cut away the bits you don't need. Stringer and neater
[14:47] <UpuWork> ok
[14:47] <mfa298> gonzo_: from what I've seen so far it's good for quick prototyping of things (cases etc) which you can then go onto getting made properly once you've got a design that works
[14:47] <craag> Cool thing is you could swap out the HF RF board for a UHF RF board ;)
[14:47] <craag> Or stack them and select between...
[14:48] <gonzo_> 3d printing is just poor man'd milling, without the swarf
[14:49] <gonzo_> and the machnies are lighter duty as they don't have the cutting forces. But the results ate light duty too
[14:51] <BalYOLO> Payload recovered, thanks guys
[14:51] <mfa298> I think the choice of cnc vs 3d probably comes down to what your trying to acheive. I think they probably both have their advantages depending on what shape your making
[14:51] <UpuWork> good news BalYOLO
[14:52] <gonzo_> and the amount of space/mess you can put up with in your livingroom/office
[14:53] <mfa298> and probably how much you want to spend there's plenty of 3D printers out there at <£1000 and a few at <£500
[14:54] <F5NIQ> where can I find the frequencie of BALYOLO baloon ?
[14:54] <craag> F5NIQ: It ran out of battery, has landed and been recovered.
[14:54] <F5NIQ> tnx
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[15:26] <Laurenceb__> what happened to the altitude tab in spacenear?
[15:27] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
[15:27] <DL7AD> Laurenceb__: you have to click it.... then it will be back
[15:27] <DL7AD> got the same error sometimes
[15:28] <DL7AD> from time to time
[15:29] <Laurenceb__> what do i click?
[15:30] <DL7AD> Laurenceb__: the tabs which appears white
[15:31] <Laurenceb__> i have no tabs
[15:31] <Laurenceb__> oh
[15:31] <Laurenceb__> i have to drag down
[15:31] <Laurenceb__> very odd
[15:32] <DL7AD> ah this error
[15:32] <DL7AD> :P
[15:32] <mfa298> or use one of the other tracking maps
[15:32] <mfa298> snus has been buggy since google removed the api it's using
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[15:51] <malgar> I'm testing the payload in the freezer.. should be aware of condensation when I take it out?
[15:52] <eroomde> sure
[15:52] <eroomde> it probably won't kill it
[15:53] <eroomde> but condensation is a bad thing generally in analog (especially high impedance stuff) or high speed digital
[15:53] <eroomde> it's not a bad idea to put a protective coating on flight computer PCBs
[15:53] <eroomde> acrylic
[15:53] <eroomde> provided that you first *very* thoroughly clean the pcb and then put it in an oven at, say, 50C, for a couple of hours, to get rid of any moisture
[15:54] <eroomde> trapping moisture in is a bad thing
[15:56] <malgar> and during flight? air speed could be anough to avoid it?
[15:57] <malgar> enough
[15:59] <eroomde> it's more complicated than that
[15:59] <eroomde> but if it's covered in a protective laquer, it doesn't matter if condensation forms
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[16:02] <gonzo_> not conformal coating?
[16:03] <jonathan-b> afternoon/evening friends. curious if anyone has any docs on attaching parachutes to payload/balloon?
[16:03] <eroomde> that's what i'm refering to gonzo_
[16:04] <eroomde> just trying to keep jargon low
[16:04] <eroomde> jonathan-b: knots
[16:04] <gonzo_> ok, wan;t syure if it was different stuff
[16:05] <gonzo_> useful stuff. I use it on antenna feedpoints, inside the natching mox. Great foir keeping water out of coax
[16:05] <jonathan-b> is best practice to basically knot it to the line between the payload and the balloon?
[16:05] <gonzo_> matching box
[16:05] <jonathan-b> and let it dangle until burst point?
[16:05] <eroomde> no
[16:05] <eroomde> usually it's in-line
[16:05] <eroomde> but there is no such thing as best practice as that sounds like government-contractor-speak
[16:06] <eroomde> which i like to avoid
[16:06] <jonathan-b> i saw something like that...seems weird to have the balloon attached to the top of hte chute
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[16:06] <eroomde> so it often is implements as
[16:06] <eroomde> payload---------parachute--------balloon
[16:06] <eroomde> the payload is attached to the bottom of the parachute lines - the so-called confluence point
[16:06] <jonathan-b> when the balloon bursts, does it not hang down on top of the chute canopy?
[16:06] <eroomde> the parachute often has a loop stitched into its apex
[16:06] <eroomde> to which to tir a line to the balloon
[16:06] <eroomde> the balloon often has a lower ballistic coefficient than the parachute/payload
[16:07] <eroomde> so it automatically flies behind
[16:07] <eroomde> in rare cases it's possible that a very badly burst balloon might tangle
[16:07] <eroomde> but it's not normally a problem
[16:07] <eroomde> and if paranoid, implement some kind of explosive detcachment scheme to get rid of the balloon remains after burst
[16:09] <jonathan-b> interesting. the difference in ballistic coefficient is what i wanted to hear. i feel less worried about it now.
[16:09] <eroomde> it's fine 99% of the time
[16:09] <eroomde> don't trust your first-born to it, though
[16:09] <jonathan-b> no kids
[16:10] <jonathan-b> so, should be fine.
[16:10] <eroomde> yep
[16:12] <eroomde> it's worth knowing a couple of good knots btw
[16:12] <eroomde> eg how to tie a figure-8 with just one free end
[16:13] Nick change: Guest31449 -> nigelvh
[16:14] <eroomde> and then a back-up knot with the loose end
[16:14] <eroomde> https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/backup-knot/
[16:14] <eroomde> that combination works well
[16:15] <eroomde> it's what i use to secure to the balloon
[16:15] <eroomde> i pre-make a loop of about 10cm diameter, then loop the balloon neck through it and back up and tie that down
[16:16] <jonathan-b> will the chute always have a loopable spot at its apex?
[16:16] <eroomde> no
[16:16] <eroomde> it depends on the design of the chute
[16:16] <eroomde> (chutes are a whole can of works but for hab it's better to not open than can unless you need sopmething specific)
[16:17] <eroomde> the spherachutes are popular among habbers
[16:17] <eroomde> there exists a hab-varient specifically with that apex loop
[16:17] <eroomde> steve (rocketboy) sells them
[16:17] <eroomde> among others
[16:17] <eroomde> spherachutes are a brand, rather than a type, btw
[16:18] <jonathan-b> yeah i've seen rocketboy's stuff. i noticed they have the loop...but there's rocketchutes as well but they do not specify anything about ht eloops
[16:18] <jonathan-b> cool
[16:18] <eroomde> i believe that's the distinction
[16:18] <jonathan-b> i'll make sure to reach out to the maker an confirm the presence of the loop before purchasing
[16:19] <jonathan-b> thanks eroomde
[16:19] <eroomde> steve will certainly be able to tell you
[16:19] <eroomde> he does rockets and habs as a hobby
[16:19] <eroomde> and has flown a lot of both
[16:21] <LeoBodnar> hey what happened to SP3OSJ?
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[16:41] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: *puff* :/
[16:41] <LeoBodnar> oh?
[16:42] <LeoBodnar> did it burst?
[16:42] <sp2ipt> Iit was weird flight - I couldn't get even a single trace (and /methinks noone except SP3OSJ did) and then burst
[16:56] <DL7AD> thats conspicuous. many of SP3OSJ's balloon just died after they reached the float....
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[18:21] <malgar> is good to produce LSB? or should it be USB?
[18:21] <sp2ipt> they should be treated more like reflex testers :)
[18:23] <daveake> Almost every payload is USB, so best to stick with that else listeners might get confused :)
[18:23] <malgar> uh ok
[18:23] <malgar> so how could we reverse our signal? now it is LSB
[18:24] <daveake> You're sure it's LSB? If so, just invert the signal that you send. Assumiong an NTX2B you should send 0 when you're sending 1 now, and vice versa.
[18:25] <daveake> All the same code around is USB
[18:25] <daveake> s/same/sample/
[18:26] <malgar> daveake: I'm using gqrx with rtl-sdr dongle and if I select LSB I get it right on dl-fldigi
[18:26] <Willdude> We should have an s// bot in here
[18:26] <daveake> Well, in your code, is your start bit a 1 or 0 when you send to the NTX2?
[18:27] <malgar> dighe ti cionki
[18:27] <cionki> we are reversing the bit now :)
[18:27] <malgar> ma me par 0
[18:27] <malgar> it is 0
[18:27] <malgar> the first
[18:27] <mikestir> have you got the dropdown in the top-left of fldigi set to USB and not RTTY?
[18:28] <daveake> 0 is USB
[18:28] <cionki> it was reversed... true/1logic was sent as high signal
[18:28] <daveake> So somewhere in your receiving side it's reversed
[18:28] <malgar> daveake: cionki is our main developer and rtty expert
[18:28] <daveake> Which is why I asked if you were sure about LSB :)
[18:29] <daveake> If your start bit is a 0, i.e. pulling the NTX2 line low, then don't change that
[18:29] <malgar> cionki: dighe ti
[18:30] <Willdude> In a C program I wrote I have a file that I import a few functions from. Can I use GDB to look at what happens inside those?
[18:31] <mikestir> as long as the object file you link with is not stripped
[18:33] <Willdude> So, I just run the program as normal and it should show me then?
[18:33] <Willdude> Well
[18:33] <Willdude> debug as normal
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[18:35] <mikestir> try it
[18:36] <mikestir> if it can't find any debugging symbols you'll just get addresses for functions in the external library
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[18:41] <Willdude> mikestir, think it does it
[18:41] <mfa298> Willdude: how are you "importing" the functions ?
[18:41] <Willdude> #include
[18:41] <mfa298> in that case start of reading the file.
[18:41] <mfa298> #includes are just header files writen in the same way as C
[18:42] <mikestir> yeah that's something completely different then
[18:42] <mikestir> the compiler will just see it as one big blob anyway
[18:42] <mfa298> however if you need to add file.o to the gcc command line then the actual implimentation is likely to be in that
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[18:47] <mfa298> if you're interested in this it might be worth reading up on how C compilers work and the difference between compiling (the -c flag for GCC) and linking. If you're doing something simple chances are you're doing the whole lot in a single command (gcc hello.c -o hello)
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[18:50] <Willdude> mfa298, will do
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[18:51] <Willdude> My code is for binary search
[18:51] <Willdude> And it works - some of the time
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[18:53] <fsphil> binary search is lovely
[18:53] <mfa298> if it's binary surely it should work or shouldn't work. There's no third (sometimes) state
[18:53] Action: mfa298 gets coat
[18:53] <Willdude> mfa298, you'd have though so
[18:54] <Willdude> fsphil, I agree
[18:54] <Willdude> A lot
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[19:00] <Willdude> http://i.imgur.com/ua3kEr0.png nothing obviously wrong
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> evening GW8RAK
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[19:06] <GW8RAK> Hi Lunar_Lander.
[19:06] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
[19:07] <GW8RAK> Fine, You? Getting back to doing some electronics after a long break and this is a good resource.
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[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> cool! :)
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> I am fine as well, thansks
[19:07] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[19:17] <Willdude> I may have found something.
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[19:17] <Willdude> If the number is 4-digit, it won't be found in a load of 7 or more
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[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> I also got something
[19:20] <Lunar_Lander> if my number is 4, it is not 7
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[20:01] <Willdude> Lunar_Lander, I mean the number in the array
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> yea and I just wanted to parody it
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[20:27] <sp2ipt> SP3OSJ has just launched another payload today
[20:28] Nick change: mrtux -> installgentoo
[20:28] Nick change: installgentoo -> mrtux
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[21:00] <ulistermclane> can someone please approve a flight document?
[21:00] <ulistermclane> id is 103791697a88953c0bd7b6eb8846bb98
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[21:03] <Upu> approved Mclaine
[21:04] <ulistermclane> thanks Anthony - hoping for good weather on Saturday and no further breakdowns (I have just killed one raspberry + one ublox through static discharge...)
[21:06] <Upu> indeed
[21:06] <eroomde> maybe cover yourself in water
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[21:09] <ve6ts> i was wondering if anyone here has used FEC on rtty or simular modes? my last balloon launch, i was getting a signal, but after about 40km there were alot of errors in the decode
[21:09] <fsphil> funny you should ask
[21:09] <ve6ts> my field-hell was for the most part readable, but it was dying as well
[21:10] <fsphil> ulistermclane just announced a flight with some FEC'ed telemetry
[21:10] <ve6ts> oh cool
[21:10] <fsphil> don't know the details
[21:11] <ve6ts> even when my balloon was much closer, like 10km it would error out.
[21:11] <fsphil> what data rate?
[21:11] <fsphil> 40km should be trivial at the slower rates
[21:11] <ve6ts> 50 baud
[21:12] <fsphil> must have been a fault somewhere, or the radio was very low power
[21:12] <ve6ts> it is low, like 10mW
[21:12] <fsphil> 10mw is fairly typical
[21:13] <fsphil> was it FSK?
[21:13] <ve6ts> Amplitude modulation
[21:13] <ve6ts> with fsk
[21:14] <ve6ts> i've done FSK with simular transmitter, simular problems
[21:14] <fsphil> AM would reduce the effective power quite a bit
[21:14] <ve6ts> for sure, didn't think it would be that bad though
[21:15] <fsphil> as an example, I normally use 300 baud @ 10mw from an ntx2 module, into a simple 1/4 wave antenna
[21:15] <fsphil> the receiver in the car is just a tiny 2m/70cm whip about 45/50cm long
[21:15] <fsphil> into an ft817
[21:15] <fsphil> that works reliably for the entire flight
[21:16] <craag> I've had no problem decoding 50 baud 10mW at 200km with an rtlsdr and 1/4 wave on the ground.
[21:16] <ve6ts> ya, simular setup, but i have a 25foot triband antenna going into a ft817 50 baud also transmitted from a 1/4 wave
[21:16] <ve6ts> i guess the big difference is the AM
[21:17] <craag> ve6ts: Was the balloon above? The high gain on 70cm that you get from triband colinears give them a fairly deep null above.
[21:17] <fsphil> that's an idea
[21:17] <craag> Can mean a simpler antenna can work a lot better.
[21:17] <ve6ts> no it was 40km away and alt was 6500ft
[21:17] <SIbot> In real units: 6500 ft = 1981 m
[21:17] <fsphil> it's also possible the ft817 is a bit deaf on AM
[21:18] <ve6ts> oops, hehe thanks SIbot, it was actually 6500m
[21:18] <fsphil> if your rtty shift is quite small you could still receive that in SSB mode
[21:18] <fsphil> just picking one of the side bands
[21:18] <ve6ts> ya i've tried SSB, it seems worse
[21:19] <ve6ts> it was a fun flight for me, my first micro with GPS that i built / programmed, before that i launched only beacons
[21:19] <ve6ts> it transmitted both rtty and field-hell
[21:20] <fsphil> you went for the modern modes then? :)
[21:20] <ve6ts> hehe :)
[21:20] <fsphil> your transmitter might not be all that good
[21:21] <ve6ts> in fact the decode was so bad i had to edit manually each line combining data from both rtty transmittions and the field-hell
[21:21] <ve6ts> probably
[21:21] <ve6ts> i tried another FM module i ordered, it turned out to be WFM - that didn't work so well
[21:21] <fsphil> it would be worth flying an ntx2
[21:21] <ve6ts> how much do you generally pay for the ntx2?
[21:22] <craag> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=92
[21:22] <fsphil> too slow
[21:22] <craag> ;)
[21:22] <ve6ts> i also flew a 6m oscilator can (CW and field hell modes) and it worked ok, output around 10mW i believe
[21:22] <fsphil> it is an FM module but you don't drive it that way
[21:23] <craag> DC level-shift the input to force the output to be FSK RTTY
[21:23] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[21:23] <craag> Use SSB receiver
[21:23] <ve6ts> owch, those are alot more then what i've been flying
[21:23] <craag> Win!
[21:23] <fsphil> there may be a discount code
[21:24] <ve6ts> my tx module costs me (converted to UK pounds) approx 6
[21:24] <craag> You can build a TX cheaply with the si4063
[21:24] <fsphil> that's possibly why it wasn't so good
[21:25] <craag> Requires a bit more programming though
[21:25] <craag> *lot more
[21:25] <craag> NTX2B is *very* simple to drive.
[21:25] <ve6ts> i currently use pwm to generate my rtty tones
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[21:26] <fsphil> then you'll find this trivial
[21:26] <ve6ts> i assume with the si4063 you have to interface to tune it?
[21:26] <craag> ve6ts: It's SPI config
[21:26] <fsphil> yea the si is all done over spi
[21:26] <ve6ts> i may also look into amplification of my AM module
[21:26] <craag> And you'll need to do your own pcb for it of course
[21:26] <ve6ts> i haven't got that far year
[21:27] <craag> Try an NTX2 first, see how easy it is!
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[21:27] <ve6ts> ya i'll have to order a couple for sure
[21:27] <fsphil> I've used them for most of my flights, the others being some form of Si chip
[21:27] <fsphil> and technically the new ntx2b's are si chips at their heart too
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[21:28] <fsphil> it's Si all the way down
[21:28] <ve6ts> hehe, cool
[21:28] <ve6ts> i'm eventually going to make the switch from aprs to rtty for my big balloons
[21:28] <fsphil> you can get more power out of the Si chip than you could with an unmodified ntx2
[21:29] <fsphil> if your local regs allow for it
[21:29] <ve6ts> but i'm running basically two types of launches now: large ones with aprs and the micro's
[21:29] <fsphil> if you're sneaky you can do both
[21:29] <ve6ts> yup, i can tx on ham bands here airbourne
[21:30] <ve6ts> fsphil yes i want to run rtty output off the same GPS as aprs on one of these launches, it would be easy to do, just my range of my transmitter is the problem.
[21:30] <fsphil> I mean you can do aprs and rtty from the same radio module
[21:31] <ve6ts> i assume the use of the Si chip would be as follows: 1) use spi to enable radio at a specific freq, then pwm to transmit audio?
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[21:31] <ve6ts> fsphil that would be really cool
[21:31] <fsphil> you normally can't put audio into an si chip
[21:31] <fsphil> but I believe there is a way of wiring it so the audio varies the crystal speed driving it
[21:32] <fsphil> si chips only job them is to generate the carrier
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[21:33] <ve6ts> oh i see
[21:33] <fsphil> above my level of skill atm
[21:37] <ve6ts> i did record the transmissions if anyone wants to listen
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[21:39] <ve6ts> i'm too scared of a pyro cutdown
[21:39] <ve6ts> the testing of it, that is
[21:40] <ve6ts> currently i use a 10ohm resister with around 0.5A of 7voltDC it melts my line within a few seconds
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[22:37] <aadamson> fsphil, I think that's what LEO does, but working out all those details is pretty tough... what I do is take a VCXO and drive it with PWM, it's output drives the si osc. At 50% duty on the PWM is the center frequency of the Si osc input.
[22:38] <aadamson> this way I can adjust the deviation by just adjusting the *level* of PWM (how big or small the sine wave is)
[22:38] <aadamson> in theory, you should also be able to use it to generate SSB tones by just moving the mid point of the PWM to something other than mid as you need to vary the frequency (think tone steps in the MFSK modems)
[22:39] <aadamson> On my STM board, and I haven't played with it yet, I also brought out the DAC, it should be even easier to deal with some of this stuff via
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[23:18] <Laurenceb_> did B-47 freeze?
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[23:41] <adamgreig> what barometers are good for habs?
[23:41] <adamgreig> or rather is anything better than 30kPa
[00:00] --- Thu May 1 2014