highaltitude.log.20140416

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[06:17] <sv5dkl> anyone knows when was last valid reception of B-45 telemetry ??
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[06:20] <LeoBodnar> 13 seconds ago
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[06:21] <sv5dkl> tnx
[06:21] <LeoBodnar> via APRS
[06:21] <LeoBodnar> by SV1JRF-10 via J41VAI
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[06:23] <sv5dkl> ok tnx a lot
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[06:34] <x-f> B-45: The tour of islands
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[06:34] <x-f> now just Cyprus left to visit
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[06:50] <malgar> LeoBodnar: ping
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[07:07] <DL7AD> Upu: the tracker doesnt work!
[07:08] <DL7AD> it doesnt show up the current data!
[07:08] <DL7AD> there's a station receiving B-45 and there's still old data shown
[07:08] <UpuWork> rgr
[07:08] <DL7AD> snus does not update
[07:09] <UpuWork> try now
[07:11] <UpuWork> partial
[07:11] <UpuWork> '$$B-45,4627,070847,140416,35.2792,26.4374,8719,8,9,4.12,Q.6+AB124\n
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[07:11] <DL7AD> UpuWork: ah okay
[07:12] <craag> Yeah no successful decodes yet
[07:12] <UpuWork> I've turned the APRS importer off
[07:13] <DL7AD> okay
[07:13] <UpuWork> I'll put it back on until they get a decode
[07:13] <UpuWork> ping me if anyone notices one
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[07:13] <craag> Ah ha!
[07:14] <UpuWork> he got one
[07:14] <DL7AD> UpuWork: watch that for me because im off for a short time
[07:14] <UpuWork> he's got it
[07:14] <craag> It's heading straight for him, so I think we're good for now
[07:14] <UpuWork> quite amazing
[07:15] <fsphil> sheesh, still at it
[07:16] <sv5dkl> anyone want a screenshot of my fldigi RX screen? write me your email addresses
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[07:20] <craag> sv5dkl: LeoBodnar is the one who might be interested!
[07:20] <sv5dkl> B-45's batt looks ok
[07:21] <UpuWork> all looks ok thanks for tracking sv5dkl :)
[07:22] <fsphil> any idea why some of these float for so long?
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[07:22] <sv5dkl> ur welcome. big thanks goes to my daughter's nanny back home, who powered up my 857 and made all required connections via tel. instructions
[07:22] <UpuWork> Leo magic
[07:22] <eroomde> by which you mean, science
[07:23] <sv5dkl> for sure!
[07:24] <eroomde> there's never magic, just appliance of science
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[07:24] <eroomde> although your ability to receive hab signals 100+km before anyone else near you is sometimes a bit woowoo
[07:25] <UpuWork> lol
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[07:25] <eroomde> this i concede as possibly supernatural
[07:26] <eroomde> the best lesson i've ever had in engineering was actually in this job, learning from a v good engineer, who did something that no one had done before with an engine, in terms of pushing the performance, in a way that i thought probably couldn;t work because no one had done it before
[07:27] <eroomde> but he quite properly told me off for not being analytical enough and saying 'look, we went though the calculations just now to show it should work, why then are you objecting on the basis of something as arbitrary as not seeing it be done before?'
[07:27] <eroomde> and it did work
[07:27] <eroomde> and it was a good lesson
[07:27] <eroomde> appliance of science
[07:28] <LeoBodnar> well i had similar thing
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[07:28] <LeoBodnar> we had a 20 tonne 6 station printing press that never worked properly in autoamtic mode
[07:29] <LeoBodnar> so it had been manually controlled for 27 years
[07:29] <LeoBodnar> i have run some calcs and figured out people who wrote the control software did not understand how printing pocess actually works
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[07:30] <LeoBodnar> so I said "we have to increase Kp by a factor of x20
[07:30] <LeoBodnar> i am amazed they made me try it out
[07:31] <LeoBodnar> i was a business analyst / IT, had nothing to do with production
[07:31] <LeoBodnar> but they had nothing to lose
[07:31] <eroomde> surprised everyone didn't do a sharp intake of breath and say 'x20... sounds like a lot Leo? We think we should try x10 as a compromise'
[07:31] <LeoBodnar> yes, they said "it's going to f* destroy the plant but we have nothing to lose"
[07:31] <LeoBodnar> plant manager was a cool guy
[07:32] <eroomde> did it work?
[07:32] <LeoBodnar> anyway it worked since then
[07:32] <eroomde> nice :)
[07:32] <eroomde> so much value in starting from scratch every so often
[07:32] <fsphil> plant manager didn't figure this out though :)
[07:32] <LeoBodnar> yeah, has become best performing plant in the company worldwide
[07:32] <eroomde> rather than starting from what someone else has done, assuming that that's got some magic status
[07:33] <eroomde> anyway, time to go to work i think
[07:33] <eroomde> bbl
[07:33] <LeoBodnar> Americans had exactly the same problem, as they had the same engineers
[07:33] <LeoBodnar> they thought equipment was faulty and have been buying a new control kit every 5 years
[07:33] <LeoBodnar> instrumentation package was like start treck movie
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[07:34] <LeoBodnar> operator control screen had like 50 gauges and dials
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[07:34] <fsphil> did it explode at random like they do on star trek?
[07:34] <LeoBodnar> so i took the piss, removed all the controls and left just one button "Auto"
[07:34] <LeoBodnar> it was truly epic
[07:35] <daveake> I'd have probably left one control for them to play with, but not actually connect it to anything
[07:35] <LeoBodnar> yes it did fsphil but it was pretty pointless becasue there was no operator at the console
[07:36] <LeoBodnar> it was manned by 6 manual operators at each printing station
[07:36] <fsphil> ah
[07:36] <LeoBodnar> before
[07:36] <daveake> wow
[07:36] <LeoBodnar> it was a hell of a job
[07:36] <LeoBodnar> trying to rehister your printing station to everybody upstream
[07:40] <craag> So what's the price on your head now they're all out of a job?
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> the plant has been closed in 2010 sadly
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> or competition bought it or something like that
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> it was scheduled to be closed in 2004 but i have ruined the plans
[07:46] <LeoBodnar> manufacturing is all politics - nothing to do with science
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[07:53] <Laurenceb> coming up to 115hours flight time on B-45
[07:53] <Laurenceb> i wonder if it could beat B-11/12
[07:56] <Laurenceb> it would need 3 more days of reception
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[08:49] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: did you get to some conclusions with the antenna yesterday? Do I need to launch nec? :)\
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[08:53] <sv5dkl> B-45 currently touching south corner of Rhodes island, Dodecanese! Telemetry signal is quite strong here. Hope it stays up like this!
[08:53] <UpuWork> so do we :)
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[08:57] <gonzo__> nice to tave some non aprs tracking on the eastern side of the continent
[08:59] <sv5dkl> http://sv5dkl.blogspot.gr/2014/04/b-45-high-altitude-balloon-is-alive.html
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[09:05] <DL7AD> you actually set up the incorrect program for tracking the balloon
[09:07] <gonzo__> used the standard FlDigi, rather than Dl-FlDigi ?
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[09:08] <sv5dkl> used Dl-FlDigi rather than Dl-FlDigi-HAB, according to DL7AD
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[09:10] <DL7AD> thats a common mistake! we should remove the standard fldigi version from the dl-fldigi hab mode installation to prevent opening the incorrect version
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[09:20] <Laurenceb_> sp2ipt: yeah i got it to work in the end
[09:20] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/w6rgOCk.png
[09:22] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: ok :) got late home and had to draw some mechanical stuff for the dish asap and couldn't get to nec
[09:22] <Laurenceb_> it probably needs some tuning
[09:23] <Laurenceb_> but that shows that the idea works
[09:24] <sp2ipt> tuning will be very picky, but it's doable if you're lucky enough
[09:25] <Laurenceb_> yeah its very resonant
[09:27] <sp2ipt> there will be problems with manufacturing it correctly and I'd expect severe detuning due to icing and water
[09:28] <Laurenceb_> it could be tuned later
[09:29] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/146650_trj001.gif
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[09:31] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: the 'only' problem with thuning is accurately measuring on the object
[09:32] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: either way I'd try to make field strength measurements while tuning - it may produce interesting results
[09:32] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[09:32] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/web/en/seminar/Ultra_low_power_Microcontroller_workshop?sp_rid=NjkwODIyOTEwOTgS1&sp_mid=8656827
[09:32] <Laurenceb_> manchester and coventry
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[09:54] <WillDWork_> nice little write up on the punch and judy show on the register
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[10:17] <LeoBodnar> APRS keeps amusing - last position point is from Rhodes to Israel, 740km
[10:17] <Laurenceb_> http://sv5dkl.blogspot.co.uk/
[10:18] <jarod> 132.085 MHz AM > Maastricht Delta High Sector EBUR EDVV EHAA > http://78.129.167.24:9930/listen.pls
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[10:19] <jarod> Aircraft visible here: http://www.flightradar24.com/52.4,4.99/8
[10:19] <Laurenceb_> thats approaching twice the horizon
[10:19] <Laurenceb_> madness
[10:28] <adamgreig> sporadic e
[10:29] <fsphil> woowoo
[10:29] <fsphil> if you want the technical term
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[10:35] <sp2ipt> 740 km sporadic? isn't it too short distance?
[10:40] <SV1NJX> tropo
[10:41] <SV1NJX> B-45 aprs is 5mW power as said ?
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> 15mW
[10:41] <SV1NJX> great
[10:42] <SV1NJX> tried to igate B-45 from northern Athens but not heard
[10:46] <sv5dkl> my igate is on, but currently pk88 is facing a technical issue, otherwise I would have gated APRS packets, too!
[10:47] <SV1NJX> º±»·ÃÀ­Á±.
[10:47] <LeoBodnar> can you hear APRS from B-45?
[10:48] <LeoBodnar> it should be just before UHF telemetry and at twice the rate of UHF reports
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[10:50] <Laurenceb_> but on 144 mhz
[10:51] <sv5dkl> º±»·ÃÀµÁ±
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[10:52] <SV1NJX> •Çµ Ä¿ ½¿Å ÿŠÃĹ 11 œ±¹¿Å ÃÄ¿ ¼À±»¿½¹ ¼±Â J43VHF
[10:53] <SV1NJX> i think Ismir Turkey has digi and igates, its close
[10:53] <Laurenceb_> 2014-04-16 10:06 G4JTO 28.126069 -12 0 IO91dq 0.01 DL5RBD JN69kb 1073 100
[10:53] <sv5dkl> All of today's work on B-45 UHF telemetry reception and upload was done from my office, remotely connected to my server. Most possibly B-45 VHF APRS packets would have been received here, too, but my TNC is out of service.
[10:54] <Laurenceb_> WSPR running 1000km on 10mw during the day :P
[10:54] <sv5dkl> •¯½±¹ ®´· pinpointed ÃÄ¿ ·¼µÁ¿»Ì³¹¿...
[10:55] <SV1NJX> µÇ¿Å¼µ 300mW aprs, wide2-1...
[10:57] <LeoBodnar> ah thanks sv5dkl i forgot nanny is an op :D
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[10:58] <sv5dkl> got that right!
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[11:02] <SV1NJX> turkey digi passed pkt for B-45
[11:08] <Laurenceb_> B-45 battery is working amazingly well
[11:08] <Laurenceb_> never falls below 3.8v
[11:08] <sv5dkl> indeed
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[11:13] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/153441_trj001.gif
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/DM00108219.pdf
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> this is looking nice
[11:54] <Willdude123> Laurenceb_: what setup have you got for wspr?
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[12:06] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rCChLocCp_g
[12:06] <Laurenceb_> geniusd
[12:08] <eroomde> is that a unix daemon that comes up with clever things
[12:08] <fsphil> I could use that
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[12:14] <mfa298> surely geniusd is what you'de replace the apple instore technical guys with
[12:14] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[12:15] <fsphil> iknow
[12:15] <mfa298> although that could probablt be relaced with: while true; do read; echo "Have you tried turning it off and on"; done
[12:15] <fsphil> they do that in apple land too?
[12:16] <jonsowman> it works for _all_ technology fsphil :P
[12:16] <fsphil> damn, this is where I've been going wrong with linux
[12:23] <sp2ipt> fsphil: they don't. Throw the app to trash, empty, install and try again :)
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> asking permission to repair
[12:25] <eroomde> we need to replace an led
[12:26] <eroomde> this will destory all of the information in your hdd
[12:28] <fsphil> USB Mouse detected, reinstall OS? (Y/Y)
[12:32] <cm13g09> lol
[12:34] Nick change: RaptorJesus_ -> RaptorJesus
[12:35] <mfa298> fsphil: set this as a background for someone http://www.tothepc.com/pic/fake-funny-message-boxes-windows.png
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[13:07] <LeoBodnar> i did similar thing on W2000 server. my boss wasn't amused
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> even though it was 01/04
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[13:09] <mattbrejza> anyone familar with i2c? does this look like the slave device is being sad? http://i.imgur.com/HA3b6l1.png http://i.imgur.com/R15xP3a.png
[13:10] <nats`> mattbrejza is it the slave device tieing the SDA low ?
[13:10] <nats`> or do you send only 0 ?
[13:10] <mattbrejza> na im supposed to be sending something that isnt zero
[13:11] <nats`> either you don't prob in the right trace, or your slave tie the line to zero
[13:11] <mattbrejza> the host appears to pull sda low first, but then it stays low
[13:11] <mattbrejza> this was working the other day, and ive changed nothing
[13:11] <nats`> you can first try to slow down the i2c
[13:11] <nats`> what's the value of the pull up ?
[13:11] <mattbrejza> 4k7
[13:12] <nats`> if it was working maybe a software problem ?
[13:12] <nats`> because if you really didn't touch the pcb I don't see any reason
[13:12] <mattbrejza> well ive changed nothing, although i should check the previous working version again
[13:13] <mattbrejza> well my little probe wire came off so i had to resolder it, but thats all
[13:13] <eroomde> the electronics version of my little pony
[13:13] <nats`> eroomde my little proby ? :D
[13:14] <eroomde> you might get locked up for that
[13:15] <nats`> if it's with my microscope I don't have any problem :D
[13:16] <mattbrejza> hmm interseting, while there is clearly a resistor on the board i cant measure anything between mlp and vcc
[13:17] <nats`> by can't measure you mean high impedance ?
[13:17] <nats`> or 0 ?
[13:17] <eroomde> implies there's neigh current through your resistor
[13:18] <mattbrejza> hiz
[13:18] <nats`> is it SMD resistor ?
[13:18] <mattbrejza> implies i should use larger resistors that dont need a microscope to see if theyre correctly soldered
[13:25] <myself> Yeah, 0603 is about where I stop. I had to do some 0402 at work a few weeks ago and wanted to punch someone. They mixed 4 package sizes on the board but of course all the stuff in need of manual rework was the tiny size.
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[13:28] <DL7AD> sv5dkl receives packets again :D
[13:30] <UpuWork> disabled APRS
[13:30] <eroomde> raf Tornado just came over
[13:31] <eroomde> going low, fast, and west
[13:31] <eroomde> wonder what that's about
[13:31] <eroomde> myself: tea, radio 3, and a well lit desk
[13:31] <eroomde> and then i'm ok with manual 0402
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[13:33] <myself> eroomde: for me it takes a bit of alcohol to soften the jitters, then I'm better. :) Or maybe I should just cut down on caffeine.
[13:33] <eroomde> no that's actually quite true
[13:33] <eroomde> i do soemtimes save manual rework to the evening
[13:33] <eroomde> with a beer
[13:34] <eroomde> i seem to be better at analogue after a drink
[13:35] <mattbrejza> looks like a have a dead resistor :/
[13:35] <mattbrejza> or the end contact has come off
[13:40] <myself> pretty sure that makes it dead
[13:41] <mattbrejza> well it looks fine, solder is sticking to it
[13:41] <eroomde> it's just changed its value
[13:42] <mattbrejza> to one that isnt within i2c specs :(
[13:42] <mattbrejza> and oc the rest of the packet of the resistors is not where i currently am
[13:44] <aadamson> a little old, but interesting - http://orianbreaux.com/2012/02/unprecedented-view-of-earth-space/
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[13:53] <nats`> mattbrejza it's corrected ?
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[13:53] <mattbrejza> na but im fairly sure its a pullup issue
[13:53] <mattbrejza> but the rest of them are in my office
[13:53] <mattbrejza> which is closed today
[13:54] <g0pai_ian> craag: congrats on your brief mention in Radcom page 12
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[13:56] <nats`> mattbrejza you could maybe activate internal pull up of your uC
[13:56] <nats`> what chip is it ?
[13:57] <mattbrejza> well i guess it would work even if ideally a bit too high valued
[13:57] <mattbrejza> msp430
[13:57] <mattbrejza> so yea it can
[14:04] <mattbrejza> hurrah, internal pullups fixes it for now, thanks nats`
[14:04] <nats`> ;)
[14:04] <Reb-SM3ULC> wow, B45 still on the run.
[14:04] <nats`> I think you burn the pull up
[14:05] <nats`> maybe by repairing the wire and hitting hit with the iron
[14:05] <mattbrejza> dont think ive ever blown a resistor like that before
[14:05] <mattbrejza> yea that was probably what it was
[14:05] <nats`> you have a microscope or a magnifying glass ?
[14:05] <nats`> because if it's over powering which killed it you should see a dark circle
[14:05] <mattbrejza> i have a reasonably shitty usb microscope here
[14:06] <mattbrejza> the resistor is already black :P
[14:06] <nats`> usually when burnt you have a dark circle on top of the resistor
[14:06] <nats`> yepbut burned black :)
[14:06] <nats`> let me try to find a picture
[14:08] <nats`> http://imgur.com/7JBgHo3
[14:08] <nats`> check that :)
[14:08] <mattbrejza> oh right
[14:08] <mattbrejza> these are 0402 which doesnt help
[14:09] <mattbrejza> it looks fine though
[14:09] <nats`> I love 0402 :
[14:09] <nats`> :)
[14:09] <nats`> 0102 is the size I can't handle myself
[14:09] <nats`> but a colleague is able to sodler them by hand
[14:09] <mattbrejza> with the right iron i reckon i could
[14:10] <mattbrejza> but id rather not try
[14:12] <fsphil> a job for machines
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[14:16] <myself> Jeez. Yeah. I've desoldered 0201 but never put it back on :P
[14:19] <gonzo__> would it be an 0102 if you put it on side ways?
[14:20] <myself> yeah, they make sideways 0612's, I'm not sure about other sizes.
[14:20] <gonzo__> I find the best iron tip is my 5mm chissel on the weller. Even for small smd, you can use the edge and it has plenty of thermal mass to make a nice job
[14:20] <gonzo__> (small smd meaning 0806 in my case)
[14:21] <myself> "Special attention should be paid to the 1206 and 0612 case. Although they have the same footprint, the 1206 has connections on the ends while the 0612 has connections on the
[14:21] <myself> longer edges. This simple change in orientation allows the inner package connections to be much smaller. Delightfully, the ESL is reduced by 95%."
[14:21] <myself> http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an13/an1325.pdf
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[14:25] <gonzo__> I was actually joking about the 0102! I have learned something
[14:25] <nats`> gonzo__ if you enjoy learned those stuff read the IPC spec :D
[14:28] <nats`> IPC 7351 gonzo :
[14:28] <nats`> :)
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[14:29] <nats`> http://pcbget.ru/Files/Standarts/IPC_7351.pdf
[14:31] <tjanos> Oh, the B45 is in Konya...If you are there, dont forget to visit this club: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj1Fc2-rAls
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[16:20] <uu4jlm_Valeryi> B-45 434.500 Contestia 8/250 this mode and frequency??
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[16:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes thats right
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[16:41] <uu4jlm_Valeryi> I do not understand why the program is not fl-digi shows the correct position of my place??
[16:44] <chrisstubbs> uu4jlm_Valeryi, did you enter the coordinates as decimal degrees into the dl-fldigi settings page?
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[16:49] <LeoBodnar> and altitude
[16:50] <LeoBodnar> uu4jlm_Valeryi: http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/guides:location2.jpeg
[16:50] <LeoBodnar> Maidenhead locator does not work in dl-fldigi
[16:50] <LeoBodnar> *is not used
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[17:36] Nick change: sp2ipt_ -> sp2ipt
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[17:41] <bertrik> nice to see that both B-44 and B-45 are still alive
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[17:43] <mattbrejza> i dont think b44 has been heard for a while, despite what snus says
[17:44] <bertrik> oh ..
[17:45] <mattbrejza> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FM0XER-4&timerange=3600&tail=3600
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[18:03] Nick change: mclane -> Guest78933
[18:03] Nick change: Guest78933 -> mclane_
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[18:11] <DL7AD> gooe evening!
[18:15] <mclane_> Hello DL7AD
[18:17] <LeoBodnar> hi
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[18:26] <DL7AD> did you get my mail LeoBodnar?
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[18:27] <aadamson> Is there a site where I can look at B-44's telemtry graphically?
[18:28] <sp2ipt> DL7AD: hi
[18:28] <Carry_> Anyone have a good design for a 3D printed box? Or box in general?
[18:28] <DL7AD> aadamson: in which way? table or map?
[18:28] <DL7AD> hi sp2ipt
[18:29] <aadamson> I"m just wanting to see the solar and lipo voltages graphically
[18:29] <DL7AD> hi mclane_
[18:29] <chrisstubbs> aadamson, http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/
[18:31] <chrisstubbs> hmm only b-45 on there, you should be able to get the UUID for b-44 and paste it in?
[18:32] <aadamson> hmm where would I find that?
[18:32] <x-f> B-44 - http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/1a48508ab17e8c84abd01523e09e1ec2
[18:33] <x-f> not many points for it though
[18:33] <mfa298> Carry_: this probably isn't the best place to ask about models for 3D printing - There are sites out there with various designs on them. Although assuming this is a box for housing stuff on a Hab I'm not sure 3D printing a box is the best way to go.
[18:33] <aadamson> huh... LeoBodnar which is a flight with good telemetry in the database over a 24hr period?
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[18:37] <Carry_> Hmm, so what's the typical material used? I've seen styrofoam boxes and simple frames, apart from that, I haven't seen much other than that.
[18:39] <mfa298> usually something like styrofoam, insulating foam, polystyrene or even jiffy bags if the payload is small. Generally things which will reduce the damage done if they land on something damagable (greenhouse, car, persons head)
[18:39] <mfa298> also things which will absorb the shcok of landing and protect the payload.
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[18:41] <mfa298> also depending on the payload most of those materials will also provide some thermal insulation when the payload is at altitude.
[18:41] <Carry_> Alright, thanks, as for radar reflectors, does tinfoil work?
[18:41] <Carry_> I was thinking hot pockets to keep the electronics warm
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[18:42] <mfa298> 3D printing certainly could be use for making discrete parts for the payload (camera mounts etc) but I'm not sure it's the best idea for the complete payload box for the reasons above.
[18:42] <mfa298> I can't comment on radar reflectors it's not something we need in the UK.
[18:42] <LeoBodnar> aadamson: http://aprs.fi/telemetry/?call=M0XER-4&date_start=2014-04-08+22%3A00%3A00&date_end=2014-04-10+12%3A00%3A00
[18:44] <mfa298> if you're looking at things to keep the electronics warm take into account there's very little air up there - and most of the hand warmer type things need air to generate heat. If you've got a suitably insulated box the electronics will probably generate more than enough heat anyway
[18:44] <Carry_> Yeah, I'm in Canada so..
[18:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hot pockets are not usually the problem, lack of air pressure preventing convection cooling is sometimes more severe than cooling!
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[18:44] <Carry_> Huh, that all very good to know, I could see that being a serious problem
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[18:48] <mfa298> one of the local hobby shops here (hobbycraft) do a good range of polystyrene shapes (including boxes, spheres and penguins) which do a good job of housing a payload
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[19:01] <aadamson> thanks LeoBodnar, I"M still sorting out lipo/solar... seems to work with AAA batt, but I'm not getting much results on solar with lipo. stuff everything off except the transmitter on 1 minute intervals and I'm just not seeing any rise in voltage... hmm
[19:01] <LeoBodnar> you need good sunshine for that
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[19:02] <aadamson> I'm in 100% bright sunshine at the moment
[19:02] <LeoBodnar> oh
[19:02] <aadamson> maybe I'm just too impatient :)
[19:02] <aadamson> we'll see...
[19:02] <aadamson> got .54v on the cells
[19:02] <aadamson> and a 3.69 battery
[19:03] <aadamson> but it sure aint moving
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[19:22] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, ok, I need an education (simple one hopefully) on solar controllers.
[19:22] <aadamson> I'll verify that my ADC sample circuit isn't robbing power
[19:22] <aadamson> but with NO load on the buck controller
[19:22] <aadamson> and lipo and solar connected, the battery is charging
[19:23] <aadamson> so.... how much current can the solar/battery provide to the target and it not be a net negative to what the solar is trying to put into the battery?
[19:23] <aadamson> that's the magic question
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[19:27] <LeoBodnar> you need to check PV panel specification
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> You can fairly accurately model a solar cell as an ordinary diode, in parallel with a current source that is proportional to brightness.
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> Not forgetting the -2mV/C temperature coerfficient
[19:28] <aadamson> http://www.ebay.com/itm/45-1-x-3-solar-cells-5-V-x-5-A-9-watt-panel-using-36-GREAT-MINI-PANEL/180803698979?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D6251035346311755373%26pid%3D100085%26prg%3D20140211132617%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D180803698979%26clkid%3D6251036404806377688&_qi=RTM1562569 - this is what I bought
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[19:29] <aadamson> supposed to be .5v and .5amp
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[19:29] <LeoBodnar> http://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/modules/modules-structure
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> Imagine a 1N4001 in parallel with a .5A current source, and you're basically right
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> At 0 current external, all the solar current flows into the diode - this is peak voltage.
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[19:30] <SpeedEvil> At 0 voltage - 0 current fows through the diode junction - this is peak current.
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> http://www.slideshare.net/josephylee/introduction-to-photovoltaic-device-physics slide 15
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> At about 60mV or so below peak voltage the amount of current flowing through the diode drops enough that you reach a maximum power
[19:31] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[19:35] <SpeedEvil> Evening.
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[19:54] <aadamson> I'm also wondering if internal resistance in the lipo is at play here... I need to check that with my charger/conditioner
[19:55] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/177477_trj001.gif
[19:55] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, just out of curiousity, would you know how much current you are using when you are not transmitting
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[20:07] Nick change: SpeedEvil -> Guest92292
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[20:09] Nick change: BitEvil_ -> SpeedEjfefje
[20:10] Nick change: SpeedEjfefje -> SpeedEvil
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[20:14] <LeoBodnar> few mA
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[20:24] <mclane_> is there a ppa for dl-fldigi for the upcoming ubuntu 14.04?
[20:25] <mfa298> )
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> hey mclane_
[20:25] <Lunar_Lander> nice to see that you are also looking forward to tomorrow :)
[20:25] <mclane_> I have it running in a vm already
[20:26] <mfa298> mclane_: you could try the existing one as it may well work, I think the same file has been used on various versions of debian/ubuntu - not that I'm a huge user of ubuntu/debian
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[20:27] <mclane_> gqrx works, but I did not succeed to run dl-fldigi - latest version is for raring (which wotks for 13.10)
[20:27] <mclane_> unresolvable dependency in 14.04
[20:27] <adamgreig> oh joy
[20:27] <adamgreig> hi priyesh ^^
[20:27] <adamgreig> mclane_: what dep fails?
[20:28] <mclane_> so I may need to compile it from the sources :-(
[20:28] <adamgreig> compiling from source is a bit of a pig. it should be ok to get it working on 14.04 in the ppa
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[20:28] <adamgreig> just pester priyesh a bit
[20:28] <mfa298> if you go from sources you may want to use the same commit as the current stable release rather than the latest commit (assuming you pull from git)
[20:29] <mclane_> "libxmlrpc-c++4 is not installable" (whatever that means)
[20:29] <adamgreig> could you run "apt-cache search libxmlrpc-c++" please?
[20:31] <mclane_> done
[20:31] <adamgreig> ..what were the results?
[20:31] <mclane_> just a second,
[20:32] <aadamson> Thanks LeoBodnar and if I can ask, where do you get your 1x3 solar cells?
[20:33] <sp2ipt> BTW do people buy some special solars for HABs or just grab what they can get?
[20:33] <mclane_> see here: pastebin.com/JcjHXdnY
[20:34] <sp2ipt> we've some shite "solar chargers" for mobile phones as gifts that noone dares to give to anyone :)
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.com/itm/45-1-x-3-solar-cells-5-V-x-5-A-9-watt-panel-using-36-GREAT-MINI-PANEL/180803698979?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3D6251035346311755373%26pid%3D100085%26prg%3D20140211132617%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D180803698979%26clkid%3D6251036404806377688&_qi=RTM1562569
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> are useful
[20:34] <SpeedEvil> as an example
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> Monocrystalline solar cells are really quite light
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> eBay aadamson
[20:36] <aadamson> SpeedEvil, thats where I got my cells
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> That's because I copied your link
[20:36] Action: SpeedEvil is lazy.
[20:37] <aadamson> :)
[20:37] <aadamson> I'm loosing max sun for the day, but running another test... only thing on is the radio at 1 minute intervals
[20:40] <aadamson> but I'm doing no power conservation in the processor, so it's probably about 12-15ma when the radio isn't on
[20:41] <aadamson> and yet I can't make the battery charge.... hmmm this is very strange indeed
[20:41] <Upu> SpeedEvil those solar cells are awful
[20:41] <aadamson> Upu, your suggestion?
[20:41] <Upu> they break if you breath near them
[20:41] <aadamson> oh, yeah I know that
[20:41] <aadamson> maybe that's some of my problem... poor cells
[20:42] <aadamson> where are you guys getting cells? link?
[20:42] <mclane_> adamgreig: did you see my pastebin pastebin.com/JcjHXdnY ?
[20:42] <Upu> powerfilm
[20:42] <Upu> http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/products/?mp325&show=product&productID=271534&productCategoryIDs=6573
[20:43] <aadamson> to use with your solar/lipo controller?
[20:43] <Upu> yep
[20:44] <adamgreig> thanks mclane_
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> Upu: yes - that is an issue
[20:44] <adamgreig> hopefully have a working ppa version soonish, probably an easy fix
[20:44] <Upu> I threw a battery into my random crap bin today and smashed six
[20:45] <Upu> and they were in a business card box
[20:45] <aadamson> and those are 4.1v cells instead of .5v and interesting only give 30ma at 3v
[20:45] <Upu> x 2
[20:45] <Upu> more than enough
[20:45] <aadamson> in parallel? so volts stay the same, current doubles...
[20:46] <aadamson> and .8g each?
[20:46] <Upu> I wired two of the larger ones up
[20:46] <Upu> and they could power the tracker without the battery
[20:46] <aadamson> the 37's
[20:46] <Upu> they are quite expensive relatively
[20:47] <aadamson> http://www.amazon.com/PowerFilm-Solar-OEM-Module-SP4-2-37/dp/B00D98P3SY/ref=sr_1_8?m=A1VOUFSIGRIGBC&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1397681214&sr=1-8 - uh yeah
[20:47] <aadamson> oh wait, thats different
[20:47] <aadamson> http://www.amazon.com/PowerFilm-Solar-OEM-Module-MP3-25/dp/B00D95KQZW/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1397681266&sr=1-1&keywords=mp3-25 - here they are
[20:48] <Upu> for 10 sounds reasonable
[20:57] <aadamson> http://www.everbrightsolar.net/1quot-x-3quot-multicrystatlline-solar-ce13.html - the other option
[21:01] <aadamson> well, I suspect part of my problem is patience, second part is current management (which I knew I needed to do anyway). it appears that over 30 mins, but I'm up about .05 volts :) so for sure something is happening, but I'm probably at the ragged edge
[21:02] <aadamson> of consumed vs. charged with this current configuration
[21:02] <aadamson> how flexible are those cells Upu ?
[21:03] <Upu> very
[21:03] <aadamson> how do you plan to support them on a pico?
[21:03] <aadamson> if that flexible
[21:03] <Upu> antenna radials
[21:03] <aadamson> oh, so you are saying that if attached in the middle as Leo does, they won't flop down? they aren't that flexible?
[21:04] <Upu> the smaller ones probably won't
[21:04] <Upu> but the larger ones wil;
[21:04] <Upu> will
[21:04] <aadamson> droop I guess would be the word
[21:05] <Upu> yep
[21:05] <Upu> I'm giving you this advice
[21:05] <Upu> but I've never flown a solar
[21:05] <aadamson> hehe me either :)
[21:05] <Upu> so take it all with a pinch of salt
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[21:07] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-5/Images/9.jpg [22:02] <aadamson> how flexible are those cells Upu ?
[21:07] <Upu> heh
[21:07] <Upu> indeed :)
[21:07] <aadamson> a little reflective action there huh? :)
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> so long ago! :D
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> heh
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[21:08] <Upu> *last month
[21:08] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:08] <sp2ipt> Upu: just got an idea - did someone try to use solar connectors as antennas for tracker?
[21:09] <Upu> I suspect you can use the panels as radials
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[21:09] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: ping
[21:10] <LeoBodnar> sp2ipt: like this? http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-15/Images/1.jpg
[21:10] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: did you get my mail?
[21:10] <sp2ipt> LeoBodnar: I was thinking rather as using the wires as the antenna itself not as the support or couterweight
[21:11] <sp2ipt> just make the HF current flow through the wires
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[21:12] <LeoBodnar> oh, i have missed it Sven! thanks a lot!
[21:12] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[21:12] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: np ;)
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> i am falling behind a little bit http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/myinbox.png
[21:15] <g0pai_ian> Fell - situation irrecoverable I suspect.
[21:15] <daveake> right-click --> mark all read
[21:16] <aadamson> and am I to assume that you get a double benefit from a solar panel being in the air... a) thinner atmosphere so more suns rays; b) cooler temps so high voltage on the cells?
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[21:16] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: haha, maybe you should read some
[21:16] <adamgreig> I haven't read my uni webmail since the day I matriculated
[21:16] <adamgreig> they're all sitting there unread
[21:16] <adamgreig> not quite that many though!
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> 'As outlined in the small print of your student agreement, once you graduate, email storage is one pound per kilobyte per week. We're sending the bailiffs.
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> 1 lbs?
[21:18] <SpeedEvil> Pound sterling. About $1.6
[21:19] <aadamson> go figure, it seems that these *cheap* cells aren't very cystal aligned. As the sun is getting lower in the horizon, the voltage is going up and the charge rate seems to be increasing a bit as well...
[21:20] <aadamson> wow, more voodoo than science with these things it seems :)... LeoBodnar the voodoo master :)
[21:21] <adamgreig> SpeedEvil: I got around that by immediately starting a postgrad ;)
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[21:30] <sp2ipt> night all
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[21:40] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, great work with B-45
[21:40] <LeoBodnar> you should see me working! :D
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[21:41] <LeoBodnar> hehe it's all up to weather
[21:41] <LeoBodnar> what are you up to? ukhasnet?
[21:43] <jcoxon> yeah
[21:43] <jcoxon> currently got 4 nodes working in my house
[21:44] <jcoxon> 2 on mains, 1 on solar+supercap and now 1 solar+nimh
[21:44] <jcoxon> next step is a launch
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> oh, mesh?
[21:44] <jcoxon> as the nodes have been running over 1 month
[21:44] <jcoxon> yeah they all repeat (well depends if they 've got sufficent power)
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> nice
[21:45] <jcoxon> so next weekend (after easter)
[21:45] <jcoxon> we'll give a launch ago
[21:45] <jcoxon> see if this will actually work
[21:46] <jcoxon> what i'm excited about is the ability for something like a seabuoy to work remotely
[21:46] <jcoxon> as in we launch it then fly a balloon to find where it is
[21:46] <jcoxon> (or a chain of balloons...
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[21:50] <LeoBodnar> heh cool
[21:51] <LeoBodnar> what's the communication distance ?
[21:51] <LeoBodnar> range
[21:52] <jcoxon> need to test that...
[21:52] <jcoxon> so currently running 50mW at 869.500Mhz
[21:52] <jcoxon> FSK
[21:52] <jcoxon> so LoS?
[21:53] <Laurenceb> whats this?
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> i guess it all depends on receiver part
[21:53] <Laurenceb> pico mesh network O_o ?
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> http://www.ukhas.net/
[21:53] <Laurenceb> interesting
[21:54] <Laurenceb> a lot of work
[21:54] <nats`> 50mW ?!
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[21:59] <Laurenceb> there is a mesh networking library for arduino
[21:59] <Laurenceb> i ported it to stm32
[22:02] <Laurenceb> but yeah probably not best for this
[22:03] <Laurenceb> custom is exciting
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[22:22] <Laurenceb> so whats the idea?
[22:22] <Laurenceb> train of balloons relaying back to the base?
[22:32] <Laurenceb> hah i see google have updated their map
[22:32] <Laurenceb> dispute border around Crimea
[22:33] <Laurenceb> *disputed
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[22:46] <priyesh> adamgreig: ?
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[22:54] <adamgreig> priyesh: need a 14.04 for dl-fldigi
[22:54] <adamgreig> as libxmlrpc-c++ is now packaged as libxmlrpc-c++8 or something
[22:55] <priyesh> who maintains the dl-fldigi builds?
[22:55] <adamgreig> oh yea
[22:56] <adamgreig> lol
[22:56] <adamgreig> I thought it was you. but actually, no?
[22:56] <adamgreig> ok you are off the hook :P
[22:56] <priyesh> Nope. Not me.
[22:56] <adamgreig> sorry :P
[22:57] <priyesh> https://launchpad.net/~simrunbasuita/+archive/dl-fldigi
[22:57] <adamgreig> ooh yup >_>
[22:57] <adamgreig> your names are like, right next to each other?
[22:57] <priyesh> errrr
[22:57] <adamgreig> just shift by one in my keyboard layout or whatever
[22:58] <adamgreig> ok i have no excuse :P
[22:58] <priyesh> dvorak. right?
[22:58] <adamgreig> whatever layout I can claim has p next to s, b next to r, etc
[22:58] <adamgreig> (qwerty on my macbook atm tho)
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[22:58] <priyesh> i may be wrong but DanielRichman may have access to the ppa?
[22:59] <adamgreig> I was too weak to keep up dvorak for more than a few weeks
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[23:00] <DanielRichman> simrun: ^^
[23:00] <DanielRichman> actually I think last time I built the packages and ssb pushed them, which I can't do right now
[23:00] <DanielRichman> (both short term: I'm going to bed, and long term: I can't remember how I did it)
[23:00] <DanielRichman> I think there's a script...
[23:01] <DanielRichman> https://github.com/danielrichman/dl-fldigi-packaging/blob/master/debian.py puts together a .orig .debian.tar.gz .dsc
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[23:01] <DanielRichman> you then debuild it or push it to a ppa and let launchpad build it or whatever
[23:01] <DanielRichman> something like that
[23:01] <DanielRichman> it almost certainly will have broken in the upgrade
[23:01] <DanielRichman> enjoy!
[23:01] <adamgreig> 5/5 would ubuntu again
[23:02] <DanielRichman> debian packaging > others
[23:02] <DanielRichman> based on my scientific and comprehensive study
[23:02] <DanielRichman> with two datapoints
[23:02] <adamgreig> brew seems nice
[23:02] <adamgreig> don't think it really solves all the right problems though
[23:02] <DanielRichman> make that five.
[23:02] <adamgreig> or all the _hard_ problems anyway
[23:02] <DanielRichman> "nice"
[23:03] <DanielRichman> so basically if you solve a reaaally easy problem you can do it nicely :P?
[23:03] <DanielRichman> .debs are pretty nice
[23:03] <adamgreig> well like I wouldn't trust it to solve any dependency issue more complicated than a single directed tree with names but no version numbers
[23:03] <adamgreig> but it's fast and it does little beer emojis on my terminal
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 17 2014