highaltitude.log.20140415

[00:04] Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@ip41-37-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[00:16] asd (5615307a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.21.48.122) joined #highaltitude.
[00:16] asd (5615307a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.21.48.122) left irc: Client Quit
[00:17] DL7AD (~quassel@p5B0963AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[00:27] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-1-175.web.vodafone.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[00:39] vk2kaw (7ca98924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.169.137.36) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[00:44] beingaware (~beingawar@2001:44b8:219e:8000:e917:f3c9:d47a:6695) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[00:58] <g0pai_ian_> Hab balloon will travel!
[00:59] g0pai_ian_ (5ceaf942@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.234.249.66) left #highaltitude.
[01:00] g0pai_ian (5ceaf942@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.234.249.66) joined #highaltitude.
[01:05] <myself> heh
[01:10] sulky (sulky@gateway/shell/cadoth.net/x-nqzxxvtgikqfsney) left irc: Max SendQ exceeded
[01:11] Hoogvlieger (~Hoogvlieg@ip41-37-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[01:11] sulky (sulky@gateway/shell/cadoth.net/x-ehqszsmukwrxqwjk) joined #highaltitude.
[01:12] sulky (sulky@gateway/shell/cadoth.net/x-ehqszsmukwrxqwjk) left irc: Max SendQ exceeded
[01:16] sulky (sulky@gateway/shell/cadoth.net/x-jqcosoeaccihcsnb) joined #highaltitude.
[01:18] MissionCritical (~MissionCr@unaffiliated/missioncritical) left irc: Max SendQ exceeded
[01:18] ghoti (~paul@scratch.it.ca) left irc: Max SendQ exceeded
[01:21] ghoti (~paul@scratch.it.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[01:21] ghoti (~paul@scratch.it.ca) left irc: Max SendQ exceeded
[01:26] ghoti (~paul@205.233.216.25) joined #highaltitude.
[01:26] ghoti (~paul@205.233.216.25) left irc: Max SendQ exceeded
[01:31] ghoti (~paul@scratch.it.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[01:31] ghoti (~paul@scratch.it.ca) left irc: Max SendQ exceeded
[01:33] RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@109.201.152.251) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[01:36] ghoti (~paul@scratch.it.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[01:42] MissionCritical (~MissionCr@unaffiliated/missioncritical) joined #highaltitude.
[01:45] <heathkid> mariaz: $$$ helps...
[01:45] <heathkid> what type of payload?
[01:45] <heathkid> and *why*?
[01:47] <heathkid> btw, what size tank do I need of H for two 600g balloon launches?
[01:47] Daviey (~Daviey@ubuntu/member/daviey) left irc: Excess Flood
[01:47] <heathkid> I'd like two per tank
[01:47] Action: heathkid won't use He
[01:47] <heathkid> non-renewable
[01:47] <heathkid> :)
[01:48] <heathkid> and costs too much
[01:48] MatB (uid21040@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-chauwxrmrberkyhm) left irc: Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
[01:48] <heathkid> ...and takes a cow too long to fill a 600g or 1200g balloon
[01:55] Daviey (~Daviey@ubuntu/member/daviey) joined #highaltitude.
[01:56] mariaz (bad5cd83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.213.205.131) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[01:59] Guest15555 (~simrun@2a02:2658:1011:1::2:2178) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[01:59] simrun (~simrun@2a02:2658:1011:1::2:2178) joined #highaltitude.
[02:00] M0NSA (~HeliosFA@requiem.soton.gia-lan.co.uk) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[02:00] M0NSA (~HeliosFA@requiem.soton.gia-lan.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[02:01] Daviey (~Daviey@ubuntu/member/daviey) left irc: Excess Flood
[02:05] Daviey (~Daviey@ubuntu/member/daviey) joined #highaltitude.
[02:13] RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@109.201.154.232) joined #highaltitude.
[02:22] GargantuaSauce_ (~sauce@blk-222-248-226.eastlink.ca) joined #highaltitude.
[02:25] GargantuaSauce (~sauce@blk-222-248-226.eastlink.ca) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[02:25] Nick change: GargantuaSauce_ -> GargantuaSauce
[02:32] RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@109.201.154.232) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[02:36] RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@109.201.154.172) joined #highaltitude.
[02:42] RaptorJesus_ (~RaptorJes@109.201.154.222) joined #highaltitude.
[02:45] RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@109.201.154.172) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[02:59] J0rd4n (~J0rd4n@unaffiliated/j0rd4n) joined #highaltitude.
[03:09] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-127.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[03:12] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-127.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:17] Geoff-G8DHE (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[03:17] Geoff-G8DHE-M (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[03:19] Geoff-G8DHE-M (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:19] Geoff-G8DHE (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[03:37] es5nhc (~tarmo@178-21-244-214.wmx.levira.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[03:59] M0NSA (~HeliosFA@requiem.soton.gia-lan.co.uk) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[03:59] HeliosFA_Ayl (~HeliosFA@2001:470:6a6f::1deb) joined #highaltitude.
[03:59] Jake_ (~Jake@137.155.209.49) joined #highaltitude.
[04:01] Smrtz (~Jake@unaffiliated/smrtz) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[04:01] Adran (adran@botters/staff/adran) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[04:01] aetaric (~aetaric@2606:db00:0:7::92cb:247d) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[04:01] Adran (adran@botters/staff/adran) joined #highaltitude.
[04:01] aetaric (aetaric@2606:db00:0:7::92cb:247d) joined #highaltitude.
[04:03] M0NSA_A (~HeliosFA@2001:470:6a6f::1deb) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[04:13] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-127.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[05:01] malclocke (~malc@2406:e000:4103:1:c5d:de69:651e:f79e) left irc: Quit: Ex-Chat
[05:23] VK3AS (89932fd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.147.47.212) joined #highaltitude.
[05:25] VK3AS (89932fd4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.137.147.47.212) left irc: Client Quit
[05:33] <Reb-SM3ULC> Good morning!
[05:42] <sp2ipt> hi
[05:44] MoALTz (~no@user-31-175-31-0.play-internet.pl) left irc: Quit: bbl
[05:48] <x-f> good morning, west
[06:03] Nick change: RaptorJesus_ -> RaptorJesus
[06:21] DL7AD_mobile (~androirc@ip-109-45-0-108.web.vodafone.de) joined #highaltitude.
[06:35] number10 (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) joined #highaltitude.
[06:38] Piet0r (~Piet0r@unaffiliated/piet0r) joined #highaltitude.
[06:43] bertrik (~quassel@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[06:43] bertrik (~quassel@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) left irc: Changing host
[06:43] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[06:55] <Reb-SM3ULC> cool, B45 still alive
[06:56] <SA6BSS> jap, aprs via sicilia, nice flight!
[06:57] mikestir (~quassel@cpc10-brmb8-2-0-cust107.1-3.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[06:57] malgar (~malgar@ca-18-198-217.service.infuturo.it) joined #highaltitude.
[06:59] madmax34 (d561509b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.97.80.155) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[07:04] jedas (~gedas@88.118.46.200) joined #highaltitude.
[07:08] <DL7AD_mobile> Morning
[07:08] kuldeepdhaka (~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka) joined #highaltitude.
[07:13] LeoBodnar (4e9672c1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.150.114.193) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[07:14] <x-f> http://new.livestream.com/GriffithObservatoryTV/LunarEclipse
[07:16] <fsphil> wonder if the chinese rover is getting any shots
[07:16] <fsphil> I don't believe it's ever been photographed from the lunar surface
[07:17] <fsphil> oh yea it's solar powered
[07:17] <fsphil> d'oh
[07:22] LeoBodnar (56a4a6a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.164.166.164) joined #highaltitude.
[07:22] <DL7AD_mobile> Hi LeoBodnar
[07:22] <LeoBodnar> Hi Sven
[07:23] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[07:25] <x-f> Stellarium simulates it as a just black object (viewing from the Moon), but i guess Earth's atmosphere would scatter some light to show up as a faint ring in the sky
[07:29] <fsphil> bright enough to illuminate the ground
[07:29] <fsphil> would be quite impressive
[07:32] <fsphil> https://d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Moon-eclipse-Surveyor-3-panel.jpg
[07:32] <fsphil> ah so it has been photographed :)
[07:32] <daveake> Blimey, you'd think they'd use something better than an 808 camera
[07:35] <gonzo__> a ik cmos sram with the top cut off
[07:35] <gonzo__> 1k
[07:35] gartt (~gart@ip68-0-205-248.ri.ri.cox.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[07:36] gartt (~gart@ip68-0-205-248.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #highaltitude.
[07:36] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq0ptByQrcg
[07:36] <fsphil> lunar orbit
[07:37] <fsphil> but close enough
[07:37] <fsphil> not completely eclipsed either
[07:37] Laurenceb (~Laurence@host86-171-4-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[07:40] <fsphil> this is a really dark eclipse
[07:41] <fsphil> oh it's cloud at the observatory :)
[07:43] napos (~na@151.150.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[08:02] Laurenceb (~Laurence@host86-171-4-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[08:04] beingaware (~beingawar@2001:44b8:219e:8000:a1a5:fa01:5ec7:b348) joined #highaltitude.
[08:06] malgar (~malgar@ca-18-198-217.service.infuturo.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[08:08] malgar (~malgar@ca-18-198-217.service.infuturo.it) joined #highaltitude.
[08:10] Alchamist (~jeames@s17328082.onlinehome-server.info) joined #highaltitude.
[08:14] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[08:15] Alchamist (jeames@s17328082.onlinehome-server.info) left #highaltitude.
[08:19] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[08:31] Elwell (~elwell@freenode/staff/elwell) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[08:35] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@host109-152-43-34.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[08:38] Hade (bc275f22@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.39.95.34) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[08:46] <Chetic_> where can I find an example recording for fldigi?
[08:46] <Chetic_> need to see what a proper transmission should look like...
[08:46] Nick change: Chetic_ -> Chetic
[08:49] <gonzo__> if you open the standard vbersion (not the hab version) you can transmit the required modes
[08:49] <gonzo__> you shoudl eb abkle to reciord them and play them back
[08:50] <gonzo__> christ, my typing is bad today
[08:50] <fsphil> how it will look will depend on the mode used. 50 baud rtty looks quite different to 300 baud
[08:50] <Chetic> I don't even think my carrier wave is ok
[08:50] <Chetic> and I want to rule out the receiver being bad
[08:51] <Chetic> I guess I'd want a 50 or 100 baud rtty
[08:51] <Chetic> since those are the modes I'm trying
[08:51] <gonzo__> an unmodulated carrier should just look like a single line
[08:51] <Chetic> mine keeps drifting
[08:51] <Chetic> and twitching
[08:52] <fsphil> some drift is normal
[08:52] <gonzo__> if you are too close and the rx af level is up too high, then it could look messy
[08:52] <gonzo__> what tx?
[08:52] <fsphil> twitching could be a power supply issue
[08:52] <Chetic> ntx2?
[08:52] <Chetic> I just added a capacitor to battle the crappy rpi power supply
[08:52] <Chetic> and it helped
[08:52] <Chetic> but only to smoothen the carrier wave
[08:52] <fsphil> definitly a power supply issue :)
[08:52] <mfa298> there's a 50bd example on the wiki. I think on the guide to trcking (search for icarus)
[08:52] <Chetic> transmissions are still all over the place
[08:53] <gonzo__> the ntx2 has an internal reg, so hopefully not a psu prob, unless it it tweaking below 3v
[08:53] <daveake> I'd fix this with just the carrier - don't complicate things with rtty
[08:53] <mfa298> which power line on the Pi are you using to power the ntx2 (3.3v or 5v)?
[08:53] <gonzo__> don't forget there will be other transmissions in the band, from other users
[08:53] <fsphil> power supply to the ntx2 will affect the voltage coming out of the uart
[08:54] <fsphil> to the pi*
[08:54] <daveake> The Pi 3.3V line is possibly a larger factor
[08:54] <Chetic> mfa298: 5v, used to be 3v3
[08:54] <gonzo__> and isolate the TXD/keying line fto the ntx2, whilst testing. So that you are only looking at one oproblem at a time
[08:55] <daveake> The NTX2 supply is (assuming it doesn't drop too low) then regulated inside the NTX2, so should be a lesser factor
[08:55] <mfa298> 5v is the best place to power the ntx2 from the Pi (as the ntx2 has it's own reg) but you'll need to think about the resistor network when you come to do that.
[08:56] <Chetic> I'm pretty sure I have, mfa298
[08:56] <Chetic> to the extent of my very limited knowledge, at least
[08:56] <fsphil> it doesn't take much variation to change the output frequency
[08:57] <Chetic> I did notice the resistor towards 3v3 is .3ohm more than to gnd
[08:57] <Chetic> 4.3 vs 4.6
[08:57] <fsphil> that won't matter
[08:57] <fsphil> just change the offset very slightly
[08:57] <Chetic> ok good
[08:57] <daveake> You've got several effects:
[08:57] <daveake> 1 - Supply voltage to the NTX2
[08:57] <daveake> 2 - Supply voltage to the high side of the potential divider
[08:57] <daveake> 3 - Logic supply to the BCM2835 (3.3V)
[08:57] <daveake> 4 - Grounds
[08:58] <gonzo__> just out of interest, why does the wiki show a complicated arrangement of pd/pull ups resistors for the ntx2 interface?? I use a simple PD from the ttl output of my PIC, which works just fine
[08:58] <mfa298> at this point don't worry about that. If the carrier is giving issues just have the vcc and en on the ntx2 connected to 5v and don't connect any thing to the tx pin
[08:58] <Chetic> how do I know if the carrier is giving issues?
[08:58] <Chetic> some drift is normal apparently, and that's what I have
[08:59] <Chetic> oh god, I have to desolder the tx pin?
[08:59] <fsphil> you mentioned twitching
[08:59] <daveake> gonzo__ Yeah, dunno. I think the idea is to bias the NTX2 to the linear part of the v-f curve. Not sure there's an actual point to that :)
[08:59] <Chetic> yeah but I don't think it's a problem
[09:00] <fsphil> then don't worry about it :)
[09:00] <Chetic> it gets really messy when I transmit though
[09:00] <fsphil> take a screenshot
[09:00] <Chetic> ok sec
[09:00] <mfa298> gonzo__: i think Upu has a PWM arduino example he was going to put on the wiki. although for the Pi I think you still need the resistor arrangment as most people (everyone except me) use the uart so that's only logic high and low.
[09:00] <gonzo__> daveake, I did wonder if it was to key between two voltages.
[09:00] <Chetic> http://i.imgur.com/CvFcqJB.png
[09:01] <daveake> It used to be worse, with the 2-output thing
[09:01] <Chetic> that's 110 baud, because 50 baud almost works...
[09:01] <fsphil> you're zoomed in and the volume is too low
[09:01] <fsphil> and kernel messages enabled :)
[09:01] <gonzo__> if it's a simple ttl output for 2fsk, then a simple pd design may take some of the complication out for newcomers.
[09:02] <daveake> mfa298 Pi PWM example https://github.com/daveake/pi-in-the-sky
[09:02] <Chetic> what's that about kernel messages, fsphil?
[09:02] <fsphil> or are you just sending ifconfig output to the uart?
[09:03] <Chetic> ah yes I am
[09:04] <Chetic> http://i.imgur.com/uRIyZ9q.png
[09:04] <Chetic> what about that?
[09:04] <Chetic> is it supposed to distort that much?
[09:05] <Chetic> I feel like it's some sort of capacitance issue
[09:05] <mfa298> daveake: I refer you to https://github.com/m1ari/Sandals and in particular the DominoEX class (also pwm on the Pi - although possibly a bit crashy)
[09:06] <daveake> Cheers, though not sure about "crashy" being a good thing :)
[09:08] <mfa298> what's been pushed might be ok. I started trying to tidy up the pwm code and have it so you can change the Domino baud rate at which point I think I'm pushing the right registers but not necessarily in the right order.
[09:09] <mfa298> you generating a wav and sending might be an easier/safer approach - I went to talking to the pwm hardware directly.
[09:11] <daveake> Yeah I went for "easy" :)
[09:11] <Chetic> guys, do you think my transmission looks ok on that last link?
[09:12] <daveake> Only "direct" bit I do is to remap the pwm to the gpio pin
[09:13] DL7AD_mobile (~androirc@ip-109-45-0-108.web.vodafone.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[09:13] <mfa298> I'm not sure I've actually tried PWM rtty on the Pi. I went from rtty using a gpio pin and resistor network to pwm and Domino
[09:14] <daveake> Works fine locally. Not tried in flight yet :/
[09:17] <mfa298> I ought to try and fix my code and get it onto a flight to see if it actually works.
[09:17] <mfa298> I can't think of any obvious reasons why it wouldn't work (at least hardware wise)
[09:17] <daveake> nope
[09:18] <daveake> Upu and I flew our new Pi tracker board last week, but with my older UART/i2c code
[09:18] <daveake> The github PWM code I linked to isn't finished yet - no flight mode and no SSDV
[09:20] <mfa298> that's a similar position to my github code although the rtty class (and I think the domino class) have methods to add the ssdv packets.
[09:20] <Chetic> http://i.imgur.com/uRIyZ9q.png <-is that amount of spread normal during transmission?
[09:20] <fsphil> your volume is still far too low
[09:21] <fsphil> the background should be blue
[09:22] <mfa298> although the diamond at the bottom suggests the audio level is ok
[09:28] <Chetic> you mean my AF gain or the "signal range" value in fldigi?
[09:28] <fsphil> AF
[09:28] <Chetic> if I raise that the diamond goes red
[09:28] <Chetic> but I guess I'll just lower the other thing
[09:29] <fsphil> I've never bothered about the diamond
[09:30] <malgar> important news for us: FLIGHTS NOT ALLOWED, NOTAM not emitted :(
[09:30] <fsphil> :/
[09:30] <fsphil> for what reason?
[09:30] <malgar> ATS routes above us
[09:31] <malgar> even if our balloon is under 500g
[09:31] <malgar> we tried 2 different locations 50 km far each other and 4 different dates
[09:31] <malgar> always not allowed
[09:32] <fsphil> easier to go to a neighbouring country?
[09:32] <malgar> fsphil: it's a school project, we can't go far
[09:33] <malgar> they said that if there are ATS routes they can't allow even a party balloon of few grams
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> did you check high altitude airspace m?ap
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> map?
[09:34] <malgar> LeoBodnar: where could I find it?
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> what country?
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> Hungary?
[09:34] <malgar> italy
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> oh
[09:35] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/188804_trj001.gif
[09:36] <LeoBodnar> you can buy the paper version from local pilots supplies shop
[09:36] <LeoBodnar> let me check online
[09:36] <malgar> LeoBodnar: why your ballons always go to Iran?
[09:36] <malgar> :P
[09:37] <LeoBodnar> haha, it's always in the way wherever you go
[09:37] <malgar> :D
[09:41] Geoff-G8DHE-M (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[09:41] <Laurenceb_> we need a satellite uplink
[09:42] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: might be a recordflight before going "out of range" over iran :)
[09:44] <craag> Hmm I'm flying over Iran at about 6pm tomorrow...
[09:44] <Laurenceb_> craag is Israeli bomber pilot?
[09:44] <craag> Hehe, no. Flying out to abu dhabi.
[09:45] <craag> But flight path goes that way normally
[09:45] <craag> So shall pack my fcd and take a listen if I get a window seat.
[09:48] <Laurenceb_> heh
[09:48] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: I guess you could try WSPR
[09:48] <Reb-SM3ULC> craag: just open the window and put antenna outside.. :)
[09:48] <LeoBodnar> malgar: these are simulation charts but they are built from real ones: http://www.vatita.net/download/planning/italy_h.pdf http://www.vatita.net/download/planning/italy_l.pdf
[09:49] DL7AD (~quassel@193.175.213.20) joined #highaltitude.
[09:49] <DL7AD> hi
[09:49] <Laurenceb_> arg firefox pdf viewer is aweful
[09:49] <Laurenceb_> 100% cpu and no rendering
[09:51] Action: Laurenceb_ takes a look at WSPRnet
[09:51] <Laurenceb_> 2014-04-15 09:48 G7EVW 14.097088 -19 0 IO94fv 0.005 SWL-NOVARA JN45hk 1274 141
[09:51] <Laurenceb_> 1270km with 5mW
[09:52] <Laurenceb_> ooh no way
[09:52] <Laurenceb_> 2014-04-15 09:48 VK2YW 144.490432 -19 2 QF34qu 5 VK1JA QF44no 161 100
[09:52] <craag> Reb-SM3ULC: Lol.. might be easier to casually walk up to the flight deck and ask to use one of their receivers!
[09:52] <Laurenceb_> people using WSPR on 2m
[09:53] <craag> Let me just plug my laptop into the plane like this...
[09:53] <mfa298> Laurenceb_: I think WSPR only gives very coarse location, although for Leo's Balloons that's better than nothing.
[09:53] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[09:53] <Laurenceb_> iirc i worked out a way to send the altitude too
[09:54] <Laurenceb_> Messages with a compound callsign and/or 6-digit locator use a two-transmission sequence. The first transmission carries compound callsign and power level, or standard callsign, 4-digit locator, and power level; the second transmission carries a hashed callsign, 6-digit locator, and power level. Add-on prefixes can be up to three alphanumeric characters; add-on suffixes can be a single letter or one or two digits.
[09:55] <Laurenceb_> it would take a bit of energy for each broadcast
[09:55] <mfa298> although once you're outside of aprs coverage you're probably also outside of the countries covered by TR61/01 (Europe, USA, Australia, New Zeland and a couple of others) so technically probably shouldn't be using AR unless you've arranged a reciprocal license with the countries your over. Your fine for international waters though.
[09:55] <Laurenceb_> ill see if i can find a map of 2m WSPR receivers
[09:55] <Laurenceb_> ah yeah
[09:56] Action: mfa298 wonders what the WSPR users would make of a /mm callsign appearing
[09:58] <Reb-SM3ULC> Laurenceb_: energywise one could just send a message once every hour during daylight or something
[09:58] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[09:59] <Laurenceb_> theres a guy running 5W WSPR on 2m south of Frankfurt
[09:59] <Laurenceb_> getting 800km +
[10:00] <Laurenceb_> grr i need a map
[10:00] <mfa298> although technically I don't think you can use the UK license airborne in international waters (but you could have a USA call on the same flight that could so we're ignoring that technicality)
[10:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> Laurenceb_: map?
[10:01] <Laurenceb_> of 2m WSPR receivers
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> thatnks for your help mfa298
[10:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/map ??
[10:01] <Laurenceb_> not searchable by frequency?
[10:02] <Reb-SM3ULC> select band at lower left
[10:02] <Laurenceb_> oh it is
[10:02] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: I've had qsos with UK on 2m using 5W because I forgot to turn on the Aamplifier :)
[10:03] <Laurenceb_> heh
[10:03] Action: Reb-SM3ULC 's r71e receives wspr from neighbour 50m away. slight overload.
[10:03] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: full scale signals :)
[10:03] <Laurenceb_> looks like nothing in eastern med
[10:05] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: well... not - it definitely IS dsomething - such good conditions were somewhere abt 2010 :)
[10:06] <Laurenceb_> i guess it depends on the extra performance you would get from balloon borne tx
[10:06] <Laurenceb_> if we could get 1000km with 15mw it would be worth trying
[10:06] <Laurenceb_> and as aprs is already to the horizon or over
[10:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> Laurenceb_: maybe use a hf-fq even though probably antenna built for 2m?
[10:07] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: I think it's doable
[10:09] <mfa298> I'm not sure you'de gain that much from WSPR on 2m although using WSPR might allow you to go down to 10m (or possibly 6m) where you might get some extra propogation effects although that makes the ideal antennas larger so might be over the pico limit (at least for UK)
[10:10] <Reb-SM3ULC> mfa298: some less ideal antenna that could work?
[10:10] <mfa298> Reb-SM3ULC: could be interesting to see what 10m does with a shorter antenna
[10:11] <sp2ipt> IMHO using so much power the antennas should have considerable gain (or at least as low losses as possible)
[10:11] <mfa298> I'm assuming there's some WSPR activity on 10m (I'd expect it to at least be similar to 2m activity)
[10:12] <sp2ipt> s/much/little
[10:12] iamdanw (uid459@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxrvxrpdsxyevfyd) joined #highaltitude.
[10:12] <Reb-SM3ULC> mfa298: check http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/activity
[10:13] <Laurenceb_> http://wsprnet.org/drupal/wsprnet/stats
[10:13] <mfa298> based on that 10m could be a decent choice
[10:15] <Laurenceb_> 10m short dipole with impedance matching might be doable
[10:15] <Laurenceb_> quite a lot of RF work
[10:15] <sp2ipt> anyone experiences tightvnc hangs? (I'm connecting to OSX 10.9 from Win 7 and the connection just stops working randomly)
[10:16] <Laurenceb_> 2014-04-14 12:30 NH5LXH 7.040012 -24 -2 DD00 0.001 LA9JO JP99gb 17773 44
[10:16] <Laurenceb_> lolz
[10:16] <Laurenceb_> halfway round the world on 1mw
[10:16] <Laurenceb_> 2014-04-14 18:22 EA4TA 14.097143 -27 -1 IN80ck 0.001 VK3HAD QF22pc 17348 94
[10:18] <Laurenceb_> some long range on 10m
[10:18] <Laurenceb_> 2014-04-14 18:04 W3PM 28.126111 -23 0 EM64or 0.001 N6SKM CM97bq 3146 286
[10:18] <mfa298> I think 10m has been getting some good openings at certain times of the day.
[10:19] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[10:19] <Laurenceb_> if i go back a few days
[10:19] <Laurenceb_> 2014-04-09 07:36 VK3ZAZ 28.126090 -17 0 QF12ag 0.001 GM4SFW IO77sn 16733 323
[10:19] <malgar> LeoBodnar: very very interesting! many thanks
[10:29] Elwell (~elwell@freenode/staff/elwell) joined #highaltitude.
[10:29] <Reb-SM3ULC> Laurenceb_: try wspr on your next balloon? :)
[10:30] <Laurenceb_> i dont have any balloons :-/
[10:35] LeoBodnar (56a4a6a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.164.166.164) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> 1m long short dipole for 10m band isnt completely impossible
[10:50] DL7AD (~quassel@193.175.213.20) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[10:52] LeoBodnar (56a4a6a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.164.166.164) joined #highaltitude.
[10:57] beingaware (~beingawar@2001:44b8:219e:8000:a1a5:fa01:5ec7:b348) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[10:57] beingaware (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) joined #highaltitude.
[10:59] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if nats` can help?
[11:00] <Laurenceb_> i bet its possible to make a 70cm/2m/10m antenni
[11:00] <Laurenceb_> probably some combination of centre and end loading with some end caps
[11:01] <nats`> Laurenceb_ help for what ?
[11:01] <Laurenceb_> antenni simulation
[11:01] <nats`> yep
[11:01] <nats`> there is a way to do long wire antenna for many freq
[11:01] <nats`> it's using some block circuit at good length
[11:01] <Laurenceb_> ah but this needs to be short :-/
[11:02] <nats`> short like ?
[11:02] <nats`> 1m
[11:02] <nats`> ?
[11:02] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[11:02] <nats`> and light ?
[11:02] <Laurenceb_> yes
[11:02] <Laurenceb_> ooh
[11:02] <Laurenceb_> http://dk7zb.darc.de/Duoband/current_70cm_open.gif
[11:03] <nats`> basicaly for 2m and 70cm...
[11:03] <nats`> you don't need really much work
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[11:03] <Laurenceb_> but 10 is hard
[11:03] <nats`> my idea would be to have a wire for 2 and 70cm
[11:04] <nats`> and on the end of the wire a circuit blocking at those freq but passing at 10m
[11:04] <nats`> let me try to find documentation on that
[11:04] <mfa298> antenna with trap is probably the best way. i think trying to get something that's resonant for all three would be a challenge
[11:05] <Laurenceb_> maybe end loaded dipole with filtering?
[11:05] <mfa298> 6/2/70 is doable as they're harmonically related
[11:05] <nats`> 10 is harder
[11:06] <mfa298> something that was resonant on 10 could possibly be treated as a longwire on 70cm but that will probably need different matching
[11:06] <nats`> http://www.mds975.co.uk/Content/amateur_radio_antennas_04.html Laurenceb_ here is a good explaination of trap
[11:06] <nats`> mfa298 I think it's for tx
[11:07] <nats`> so matching will not help if the Resonnance is at 70cm
[11:07] <mfa298> nats`: it is, the idea was for a balloon that could wspr and 70cms telem and aprs
[11:08] <nats`> matching is not magical the antenna will be bad as hell
[11:09] <nats`> if the antenna is for 70cm on 10M the radiated pattern and power will be low
[11:09] <mfa298> if it was a 10m 1/4 wave that's ~2.5m which you could treat as a long wire for 70cm (>3 wavelengths) but you're likely to need different matching (I think longwire is more likely to be high imedance)
[11:09] <nats`> oky
[11:09] <nats`> I never used longwire
[11:10] <mfa298> but then 2.5m antenna is really too large for a pico balloon.
[11:10] <gonzo__> it would go high and low as it goes thriough multiples of wavelemgth
[11:10] <gonzo__> though after a while the losses coudl damp out the effects at 70cm
[11:10] <Laurenceb_> i wonder about some sort of resonant loading network
[11:11] <craag> What you really need is 2 parallel antennas, one is his current 2/70cm and the other a heavily inductively loaded whip for 10m.
[11:11] <mfa298> I'm not sure what the radiation pattern of a long wire is but I suspect the idea is that as it's much longer than a wavelength it will get some resonance somewhere along it's length.
[11:11] <gonzo__> far simpler to use a separate 70cm ant, given the small size
[11:11] <craag> For either, the other will be high-Z, and so will not affect matching
[11:12] <nats`> why not a trap
[11:12] <nats`> it works well
[11:12] <craag> nats`: Or a trap on the loaded whip
[11:12] <craag> The main problem is that you can't get the length
[11:12] <gonzo__> extra complexity and weight of themn combining the two tx's
[11:12] <nats`> so 2m/70cm ont eh same antenna
[11:12] <nats`> and helicaoidal 10M ?
[11:13] <nats`> or big inductance + smaller whip
[11:13] <mfa298> I'd probably go for two antennas as that would be much easier to design than calculating suitable traps
[11:13] <gonzo__> 2/70 is easy to do, as a 1/4 at 144MHZ is roughly a 3/4 at 432MHz.
[11:13] beingaware (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[11:13] <craag> it's going to need to be a very small whip
[11:13] <craag> like ~1m
[11:13] <craag> max
[11:13] <nats`> what is the power expecte on the WSPR ?
[11:13] <nats`> expected
[11:14] <Laurenceb_> a few mw
[11:14] <craag> gonzo__: I believe he already uses a 1/4 at 2m for 2m/70cm
[11:14] <craag> And I use a 2m 1/4 for chasing
[11:14] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[11:14] <gonzo__> licence exempt for the uk is 10mw eirp for pretty much everythng
[11:14] <craag> WSPR needs to be on the wspr freqs, so would be AR
[11:14] <nats`> Laurenceb_ I wonder if a little trick with ferrite could help
[11:15] <gonzo__> ok, missed the early part of the chat
[11:15] <nats`> it's just an idea
[11:15] <Laurenceb_> nats`: yeah
[11:15] <Laurenceb_> https://sites.google.com/site/vkonehw/home/antennas/80-40m-Dipole
[11:15] <nats`> but maybe a little piece of ferrite could help to reach the virtual length
[11:15] <mfa298> surely the 2.5m piece of thin wire that happens to be connected to the 10m ant pad was just a launching aid that failed to disconnect properly on launch :p
[11:16] <Laurenceb_> or a deployable antenni
[11:16] <gonzo__> what you are trying to do is to adapt an antenna to match some nominal tx output impeadence. What you should be doing is making the tx match to whatever the antenna is
[11:16] <nats`> mfa298 I was thinking about a ferrite solder on the PCB with wire around and a whip after
[11:16] <Laurenceb_> kind of hard when the short dipole impedance is ~2ohm
[11:16] <craag> nats`: So a very heavy inductive load :)
[11:17] <mfa298> we need that ukhas chase boat then we could launch in international waters away from that pesky 2m limitaton
[11:17] <nats`> gonzo__ it's a switched output don't forget that
[11:17] <nats`> yep craag I'm for that
[11:17] <gonzo__> small transformer, or do it with lumped components
[11:17] <nats`> check sooner I was on your side for the 10M antenna :)
[11:17] <nats`> if it need to radiated only some mW
[11:17] <nats`> it's good
[11:17] SM5OCI (c2ed8e0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.10) joined #highaltitude.
[11:17] <Laurenceb_> 10M WSPR is getting halfway round the world on a few mw most nights
[11:18] <craag> Yeah, the 10m whip going up and secured to the top of the balloon would keep it out of the way of the 2/70cm antenna
[11:18] <nats`> don't forget it's with good aerial
[11:19] <nats`> hey crazy idea you modulated 144MHz in AM 10MHz :D
[11:19] <nats`> let just fuck up all the band
[11:19] <nats`> if possible with a sawtooth
[11:19] <nats`> :D
[11:19] <SM5OCI> I have not been active for some time. Congrats to B-45. Impressive trajectory!
[11:19] <craag> let's jsut use a spark-gap tx :D
[11:20] <nats`> yay craag let's kickstart that a pico spark gap for pico balloon :D
[11:20] DL7AD (~quassel@p5B0975C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[11:20] <nats`> uhhh a friend tells me it's a bug zapper :p
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> gonzo__: exactly. I don't understand why everybody is trying to match PA output to 50R and than bend backwards trying to shoehorn antenna to 50R again. While there is not even a transmission line in site.
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> sight
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> I just make antenna resosnant, take its impedance and match PA to that
[11:21] <craag> What Z is the PA?
[11:22] <Laurenceb_> http://www.k7mem.com/Electronic_Notebook/antennas/shortant.html
[11:22] <gonzo__> is the hab point prize still up for the first valve based hab tx?
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> it's in the 4060 DS somewhere
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> and fully analogue tracker
[11:23] <daveake> And 80's micro tracker
[11:23] <craag> ntx2b with Vin rigged to an analogue pressure sensor would be fun.
[11:23] <craag> altitude = audio freq :)
[11:23] <daveake> hmm not bad :)
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> isn't ntx2b digital inside?
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> ooh this is interesting
[11:24] <adamgreig> you need position too anyway
[11:24] <craag> darn you LeoBodnar
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> that calculator says 10m is possible
[11:24] <adamgreig> and yea, you'd need the classic ntx2 :P
[11:24] <adamgreig> which is a lovely piece of rf engineering i think
[11:24] <craag> adamgreig: Triangulation
[11:24] <adamgreig> craag: pfft
[11:24] <Laurenceb_> with only a 1.5m long antenni
[11:24] <adamgreig> you can do better than that
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> DF
[11:24] <adamgreig> you can do better than that too
[11:24] WillTablet (~willdude1@unaffiliated/willdude123) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[11:24] <malgar> do you have to specify radius around the launch point in your notam request?
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> reverse GPS with analogue computer tracking stations
[11:24] <daveake> no
[11:25] <mfa298> or use an analogue accelerometer - would make detecting burst easy.
[11:25] <adamgreig> quite enjoyed the story of the old met balloons that transmitted a value from an LDR in a tube
[11:25] <adamgreig> so you could detect local noon
[11:25] <adamgreig> which tells you longitude
[11:25] <craag> that's neat
[11:25] <adamgreig> and perhaps sunrise and sunset, which could get you latitude
[11:25] <daveake> bird trackers use that trick
[11:25] <adamgreig> indeed
[11:25] <adamgreig> doesn't work quite so well near the poles
[11:26] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: that calculator site i linked seems to suggest 10M antenni is feasible in <1.5m length
[11:26] <adamgreig> magnetometer and suitable analogue processing might yield latitude too
[11:26] <adamgreig> but most MEMS magnetometers will have digital circuitry :P
[11:26] <mfa298> need to add in something like a 555 timer with the timing based on a 2nd input then you could encode two things - pitch for variable 1 and duty cycle for variable 2
[11:27] <adamgreig> and voltage for variable 3, or a change in voltage, anyway
[11:27] <adamgreig> plenty of ways to stick data in
[11:28] <adamgreig> where voltage -> ntx2 -> AF
[11:28] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: i think if you add 14µH air cored inductors to either end of your existing antenni
[11:28] <craag> or voltage-controlled variable audio freq -> ntx2
[11:28] <Laurenceb_> then 22cm of extra wire
[11:29] <craag> So drift isn't an issue
[11:29] <Laurenceb_> it will do all 3 frequencies :D
[11:29] Willdude123 (~willdude1@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[11:29] <Laurenceb_> the inductors should more or less block the higher frequencies
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> and they impedance match it at 10m
[11:30] <Laurenceb_> 21 turns on 26mm former
[11:32] <gonzo__> the other issue with loading antennas, is the pattern may change. Poss puttng the lobes where they are no iuse
[11:32] <gonzo__> use
[11:35] <Laurenceb_> yeah it needs simulating
[11:37] <mfa298> sounds like someone's volunteered to learn eznec :p
[11:37] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[11:37] <Laurenceb_> downloading...
[11:38] <mfa298> It didn't look to be too hard when I looked at it a while ago - although I'm not sure how (or if) you can add traps
[11:39] <Laurenceb_> what the heck
[11:39] <Laurenceb_> it wants to reinstall a system dll
[11:39] <Laurenceb_> seems to have installed anyway
[11:39] SM5OCI (c2ed8e0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.10) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[11:40] <Laurenceb_> this looks complicated...
[11:42] <LeoBodnar> it can haz traps
[11:42] <mfa298> I just googled and saw you can do traps
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> its being a bit glitchy in wine
[11:43] <Laurenceb_> but seems to run
[11:45] <Laurenceb_> has anyone here actually used it?
[11:46] <Laurenceb_> i cant work out how im supposed to name and connect nodes - whatever you call the points on the ends of wires
[11:46] <mfa298> I followed the tutorial last year sometime but never made it much further
[11:46] <Laurenceb_> ok
[11:47] <Laurenceb_> im guessing i need some L networks
[11:47] <Laurenceb_> or maybe loads...
[11:47] <mfa298> I don't think you connect things as such, you place the wires and tell it where the source is and then it doe clever stuff
[11:47] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[11:47] <Laurenceb_> how do i tell it where the source is?
[11:49] <mfa298> I think you just tell it how far along a wire it is.
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> oh
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> then i only need a single wire
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> any idea how to do free spoace?
[11:50] <LeoBodnar> you insert source inside existing wire
[11:50] <Laurenceb_> ah
[11:50] <mfa298> single wire with a number of segments should do it (I think the number of segments controls where you can place things and how it does the calcs)
[11:50] <LeoBodnar> and specify which end and % of the length
[11:51] <mfa298> I think freespace is an option you can set when you do the modelling - there's a setting somewhere for the type of ground it's above
[11:52] sv5dkl (4f6b6cf6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.107.108.246) joined #highaltitude.
[11:53] <sv5dkl> ?
[11:53] BrainDamage_ (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-222-202.clienti.tiscali.it) joined #highaltitude.
[11:54] <Laurenceb_> its running
[11:54] <Laurenceb_> very slow
[11:55] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-222-202.clienti.tiscali.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[11:55] Nick change: BrainDamage_ -> BrainDamage
[11:56] <Laurenceb_> run time error 6, overflow
[11:56] <Laurenceb_> nice
[11:57] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-222-202.clienti.tiscali.it) left irc: Client Quit
[11:57] BrainDamage (~BrainDama@dynamic-adsl-94-36-222-202.clienti.tiscali.it) joined #highaltitude.
[12:01] <malgar> I'm studying an aero map. There are different routes. Do you know what's the difference between ATSHDUP and ATS simple ?
[12:01] <malgar> sorry ATSH simple
[12:03] <DL7AD> hi sv5dkl !
[12:03] Hiena (~boreger@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[12:04] beingaware (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) joined #highaltitude.
[12:04] <sp2ipt> la`wouldn't it be easier to use native nec implementation?
[12:09] x-f (~x-f@zuze.laacz.lv) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[12:09] x-f (~x-f@zuze.laacz.lv) joined #highaltitude.
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> something is wrong with the maths
[12:10] <Laurenceb_> its getting overflows
[12:13] <sv5dkl> hi sven
[12:13] Hiena (~boreger@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: Quit: Konversation terminated!
[12:13] <Laurenceb_> SWR is 3E+100
[12:13] <sv5dkl> last contact with B-45 west of France ??
[12:14] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: SWR doean't actually mean that much :)
[12:16] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: contrary to what most people think low SWR doesn't mean the antenna works at optimum performance
[12:17] <Laurenceb_> i think its unstable due to long segment length
[12:17] <Laurenceb_> the demo is limited to the number of segments that can be used
[12:18] Hiena (~boreger@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) joined #highaltitude.
[12:18] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: AFAIR NEC engine is free
[12:19] <Laurenceb_> its possing up warnings now that the segments are too long for stability
[12:19] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[12:20] <sp2ipt> you are modeling rather simple antenna - shouldn't hit the max element number limit - just divide them :)
[12:20] <Laurenceb_> you mean i can have multiple elements with a few segments each?
[12:21] <sp2ipt> yes
[12:21] <Laurenceb_> im too lazy sorry
[12:21] <Laurenceb_> Leo is welcome to try :P
[12:21] <sp2ipt> send me the nec file, ok? :)\
[12:22] <Laurenceb_> its just a 1m total length dipole with 14µH inductors added to either end then 24cm long extensions
[12:22] <sp2ipt> rr, what simulation conds?
[12:23] <Laurenceb_> free space, 50ohm feed, 10m,2m, and 70cm frequency
[12:24] sv5dkl (4f6b6cf6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.107.108.246) left #highaltitude.
[12:24] <sp2ipt> ok
[12:26] <mfa298> at a guess the 50R feed could be part of why it reported a high SWR which as this is connected directly to the output of an SI chip probably isn't an issue - especially as you may well be choosing a suitable matching network for the chip anyway
[12:28] <Laurenceb_> yeah i was just seeing if this is at all feasible
[12:29] <Laurenceb_> simple short dipole isnt really doable for 10m
[12:31] <gonzo__> or just ignore the missmatch and adjust the power accordinkgly
[12:31] <gonzo__> if the chip will stand the match
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> radiation impedance is only 1.6ohm
[12:32] <Laurenceb_> thats tricky
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> looks like B-45 is fully charged again
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> very impressive battery
[12:33] <gonzo__> small ferrite transformer?
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> nah
[12:33] <Laurenceb_> air cored inductive end loading seems to fix the problems nicely
[12:36] Jededu (~EduSuppor@cpc4-perr14-2-0-cust20.19-1.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[12:38] brust (~ol@h-140-163.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[12:40] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: ok, got first results ;) 28MHz 15-j2200 144MHz 264-j518, 437MHz 685-j905
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[12:43] <Laurenceb_> not horrifyingly bad
[12:44] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: provided I remember how to do it correctly - I'll play a bit with it today in free time
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> yeah thanks
[12:44] <sp2ipt> np
[12:44] <Laurenceb_> this looks doable, very surprising
[12:45] <Laurenceb_> 15ohms real impedance is a good starting point
[12:46] <sp2ipt> yes, what worries me is the impedance at higher freq - maching these will cause poor efficiency
[12:48] <sp2ipt> how thick can the wire be to use it in payload? or: how much can the antenna weight
[12:48] DL7AD (~quassel@p5B0975C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[12:48] <gonzo__> you will have to do a lot of tweaking, as a real antenna may not perform quite the same. and if you start making narrow band designs, it could end up worse than just a randiom bit fo wite
[12:48] <gonzo__> wire
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> yeah i suspect it needs tweaking
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> it should work ok at the higher frequencies
[12:49] <Laurenceb_> 28mhz is the really hard one to get right
[12:50] <sp2ipt> gonzo__: I was thinking of tweaking it into helix, it should be able to get some reasonable values but I'm not quite sure about mechanical stability
[12:52] brust (~ol@h-140-163.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) joined #highaltitude.
[12:53] iamdanw (uid459@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxrvxrpdsxyevfyd) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[12:57] <Laurenceb_> sp2ipt: so what is the total length?
[12:58] <mattbrejza> whats wrong with a 4m long dipole? are we going for <2m pico?
[12:58] <Laurenceb_> could you try 1.06m total length center part with 13µH inductors then two 22cm outer "cap" lengths?
[12:58] <Laurenceb_> mattbrejza: yes
[12:59] <mattbrejza> ah ok
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> http://www.k7mem.com/Electronic_Notebook/antennas/shortant.html
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> ^that site says it works
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> at 29.7mhz
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> center
[12:59] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: for now I didn't space out the wires in place of inductance so it was 1,48m fed at the center
[12:59] <Laurenceb_> oh
[13:00] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: the design is moreless like this: choose the highest frequency and make a dipole, add traps to cut off everything else
[13:00] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[13:00] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: then similarily move to the lower freq, and to the next one
[13:01] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: basically u'd like to use only inductance, capacitance is less welcomed as it is less table
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> yes
[13:01] <Laurenceb_> bbl
[13:01] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: I'd try to use coax cable for traps (using teflon u'll get quite good capacitance stability but the mechanics is more of a problem
[13:02] <sp2ipt> me too, this goddamn vnc is driving me crazy. Apple screwed something once again :/
[13:04] iamdanw (uid459@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jtsmkorulbntjold) joined #highaltitude.
[13:05] <Reb-SM3ULC> sp2ipt: you always get screwed by apple.. more or less... :( tried my bt-338 gps with ipad.. standard device and ipad... no way..
[13:13] <x-f> sp2ipt, i don't use the built-in VNC server, but Vine Server (OSXvnc) instead, it's much more stable for me. i'm still on 10.6 and its latest version is from 2007 so no idea if it would work on your 10.9
[13:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: what viewver are you using _on_ osx for vnc?
[13:15] <x-f> Chicken of the VNC
[13:16] <x-f> i'm kinda old skool :/
[13:17] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: well, any good school is fine for me :)
[13:19] lz1ny (550e2662@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.14.38.98) joined #highaltitude.
[13:29] Adran (adran@botters/staff/adran) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[13:29] Adran (adran@botters/staff/adran) joined #highaltitude.
[13:29] WillDuckworth (~will@host86-178-185-140.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[13:31] DL7AD_mobile (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) joined #highaltitude.
[13:33] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@host109-152-43-34.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: TV
[13:42] WillDuckworth (~will@host86-178-185-140.range86-178.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:05] Muzer (~muzer@cpc4-sotn9-2-0-cust230.15-1.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Excess Flood
[14:09] Muzer (~muzer@cpc4-sotn9-2-0-cust230.15-1.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:32] DL7AD (~quassel@brln-4db9cc31.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:39] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[14:42] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-127.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:43] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[14:49] number10 (d42c14ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.44.20.206) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[14:51] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@host109-152-43-34.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:09] beingaware (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[15:14] Willdude123 (~willdude1@unaffiliated/willdude123) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[15:15] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@host109-152-43-34.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: TV
[15:23] Willdude123 (~willdude1@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[15:26] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[15:30] Piet0r (~Piet0r@unaffiliated/piet0r) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[15:31] DL7AD_mobile (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[15:32] Willdude123 (~willdude1@unaffiliated/willdude123) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[15:33] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) joined #highaltitude.
[15:33] Geoff-G8DHE-M (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:35] DL7AD (~quassel@brln-4db9cc31.pool.mediaWays.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[15:48] marshall_law_ (~marshall_@97-93-250-127.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[15:48] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-127.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[15:59] number10 (519a08f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.154.8.244) joined #highaltitude.
[16:00] Willdude123 (~willdude1@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[16:19] madmax34 (5815c926@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.21.201.38) joined #highaltitude.
[16:23] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@host109-152-43-34.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:32] simrun (~simrun@2a02:2658:1011:1::2:2178) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[16:33] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[16:33] simrun (~simrun@2a02:2658:1011:1::2:2178) joined #highaltitude.
[16:43] RocketBoy (~steverand@0541e410.skybroadband.com) joined #highaltitude.
[16:47] <Laurenceb_> hi RocketBoy
[16:47] <RocketBoy> yo
[16:48] <RocketBoy> sorry I havnt got back to your msil
[16:48] <RocketBoy> msil
[16:48] <RocketBoy> mail
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> np
[16:48] <RocketBoy> up to my neck in work ATM
[16:48] <Laurenceb_> same here :D
[16:49] <Maxell> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzK6ajWRoB0 Ukraine
[16:49] <Maxell> </offtopic>
[16:51] LeoBodnar (56a4a6a4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.164.166.164) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[16:57] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-171-136-88.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:00] Geoff-G8DHE_ (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:03] Geoff-G8DHE-M (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 265 seconds
[17:03] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[17:06] MoALTz (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[17:10] LeoBodnar (4e9672c1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.150.114.193) joined #highaltitude.
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: I got a simulated antenni to work in the 10m band
[17:10] <Laurenceb_> 67% efficiency, 1.4m long
[17:11] <Laurenceb_> existing antenni with 7µH inductors and 20cm long top hat bits on the ends
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> That seems optimistic.
[17:11] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-171-136-88.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> But I've never really looked into it
[17:13] <LeoBodnar> interesting
[17:13] <LeoBodnar> what sort of match is it?
[17:13] <LeoBodnar> what's the impedance at 10m?
[17:15] Nick change: Jake_ -> Smrtz
[17:15] Smrtz (~Jake@137.155.209.49) left irc: Changing host
[17:15] Smrtz (~Jake@unaffiliated/smrtz) joined #highaltitude.
[17:16] Geoff-G8DHE_ (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:16] [1]Geoff-G8DHE (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:16] bertrik (~quassel@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) joined #highaltitude.
[17:16] bertrik (~quassel@ip117-49-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) left irc: Changing host
[17:16] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) joined #highaltitude.
[17:17] DL7AD (~quassel@brln-4db9cc31.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #highaltitude.
[17:17] <Laurenceb_> close to 50ohm
[17:18] <mattbrejza> gain?
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> im not very good with this...
[17:19] Geoff-G8DHE (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[17:19] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE
[17:19] <mattbrejza> it cant be too far off 0dBi if you got 67% efficieny? (im not too sure either)
[17:19] Geoff-G8DHE-M (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[17:19] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[17:20] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-171-136-88.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:20] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/w6rgOCk.png
[17:23] <mattbrejza> the plot has a swr of 5 or so, and the text underneith says 4730000 :/
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> i know
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> it seems to be 4.73
[17:23] <mattbrejza> also it seems if you dont get the lengths just right, the SWR is much worse
[17:23] <mattbrejza> (the BW of the antenna is not great)
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> it randomly multiplies by 10^6
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> on mousover...
[17:23] <Laurenceb_> yeah its very narrowband
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> i suspect it can be optimised further, i havent tried
[17:24] <Laurenceb_> this is just the stock K7MEM design
[17:24] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[17:25] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) joined #highaltitude.
[17:26] <Laurenceb_> i suspect the air core inductors would need some attention to block 434mhz
[17:26] <Laurenceb_> maybe multiple coils in series or something
[17:26] <Laurenceb_> but then it should be a triple band antenni
[17:28] <mattbrejza> or jsut make it 4m long and launch from cambridge :P
[17:29] MoALTz (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[17:29] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[17:30] <Laurenceb_> its pretty cool that you can make such a short 10m antenni imo
[17:30] MoALTz (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[17:30] MoALTz_ (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[17:30] MoALTz_ (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) left irc: Client Quit
[17:30] <Laurenceb_> it could easily tx 10mw rf power too :D
[17:31] <mattbrejza> is 27.12MHz a amateur band elsewhere?
[17:31] <mattbrejza> although perhaps you wouldnt need more than 10mW
[17:31] <Laurenceb_> 28.12 is
[17:31] <Laurenceb_> thats the WSPR frequency
[17:31] <mattbrejza> or whatever silly units ir2030 uses
[17:31] <mattbrejza> oh i see
[17:32] <Laurenceb_> it goes half way round the world pretty much every night on <10mw
[17:32] <mattbrejza> 42 dBuA/m @ 10m (aka 10mW)
[17:33] MoALTz_ (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[17:36] MoALTz (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[17:36] <LeoBodnar> well SWR is computed assuming 50R PA
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> 2014-04-15 11:58 DL1FX 28.126138 -29 1 JN49gr 0.05 PY2RN GG66lw 9770 229
[17:36] <Laurenceb_> from this morning
[17:37] <Laurenceb_> i bet airborne 10mw tx is about as good as that
[17:37] <Laurenceb_> almost 10000km
[17:37] <LeoBodnar> Z=10^13+ j * 10^8 lol
[17:38] <LeoBodnar> good luck putting any energy into that :D
[17:39] <LeoBodnar> maybe couple of TV would work
[17:40] malgar (~malgar@ca-18-198-217.service.infuturo.it) left irc: Ping timeout: 276 seconds
[17:40] <mattbrejza> the arc to the ground would produce some nice rf you would pick up
[17:41] <LeoBodnar> well not really, a kV would work too
[17:41] <LeoBodnar> but the more the merrier!
[17:41] <mattbrejza> what voltage do you need to arc from 8km to the sea?
[17:41] <mattbrejza> or land
[17:41] <Laurenceb_> thats just nonsense
[17:41] <Laurenceb_> the display is broken for some reason
[17:42] <LeoBodnar> you can spray something from the balloon to induce lightning strike
[17:42] <fsphil> mattbrejza: possibly not much if it happens to be between a thunderstorm and the ground
[17:42] <LeoBodnar> and have sort of very slow CW
[17:43] <mattbrejza> so do we think we can modulate lightning? :P
[17:43] <fsphil> it's been discussed :)
[17:43] <LeoBodnar> somebody has done it but from ground up
[17:43] <fsphil> could use a trail of ionised air as an antenna?
[17:43] <LeoBodnar> i think rocket with a trailing wire
[17:43] <mattbrejza> how do you do the modulation bit then?
[17:43] <LeoBodnar> timing the lighting strikes
[17:44] <mattbrejza> FET rated to 1GV, 300kA?
[17:44] <myself> fsphil: I could swear I've heard of using lasers to ionize a path...
[17:44] <myself> I love everything about this idea.
[17:44] crash_18974 (~crash_@2605:8900:1000:1001:8:0:e:2) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[17:44] <myself> it's like HAARP with frickin' lasers.
[17:44] <myself> I think my conspiracy-theorist uncle just fell out of bed.
[17:45] crash_18974 (~crash_@2605:8900:1000:1001:8:0:e:2) joined #highaltitude.
[17:45] <mfa298> mattbrejza: I'm sure you need a special sort of capacitor to go with that FET
[17:46] es5nhc (~tarmo@178-21-244-214.wmx.levira.ee) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[17:46] <myself> mfa298: oh lord, next you're gonna try to sell me on some sort of "cloud services" aren't you?
[17:47] <fsphil> best thing since the water jet antenna
[17:48] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tIZUhu21sQ
[17:49] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp079166090188.access.hol.gr) joined #highaltitude.
[17:51] MoALTz_ (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[17:55] MoALTz (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[17:56] MoALTz (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) left irc: Max SendQ exceeded
[17:58] MoALTz (~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[17:59] Geoff-G8DHE_ (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[17:59] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[17:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[18:00] DL7AD (~quassel@brln-4db9cc31.pool.mediaWays.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[18:02] Geoff-G8DHE-M (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[18:02] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[18:04] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Now QRT
[18:04] iamdanw (uid459@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jtsmkorulbntjold) left irc: Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
[18:05] sp2ipt_ (~sp2ipt@89-69-164-149.dynamic.chello.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[18:06] madmax34 (5815c926@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.21.201.38) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[18:08] sp2ipt (~sp2ipt@89-69-164-149.dynamic.chello.pl) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[18:13] <sp2ipt_> hi all
[18:13] Nick change: sp2ipt_ -> sp2ipt
[18:13] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb_: di u get into something with the antenna or should I launch nec? ;)
[18:29] <gonzo__> anyone been flying anything in black Leamington Spa today?
[18:38] napos (~na@151.150.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) left irc: Ping timeout: 245 seconds
[18:39] napos (~na@151.150.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee) joined #highaltitude.
[18:41] <LeoBodnar> i was in the area and my phone was ringing
[18:42] MatB (uid21040@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hniockhujighhxvu) joined #highaltitude.
[18:44] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488A830.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[18:44] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:44] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@host109-152-43-34.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: TV
[18:50] <mikestir> aadamson: arko: <$other US people>: Someone emailed me wanting an engineer for a 4 week contract for a u-Blox + unspecified wireless project in C. I don't have time to take it on, and I think they really wanted someone in the US. Company is in WI. pm if interested and I'll pass on his details.
[18:50] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-163-166-166.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[18:50] DL7AD (~quassel@brln-4db9cc31.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #highaltitude.
[18:56] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:00] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[19:12] andyinuk (~andyinuk@cpc1-nrte23-2-0-cust28.8-4.cable.virginm.net) joined #highaltitude.
[19:15] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@host109-152-43-34.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:18] Willdude (~Willdude1@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[19:25] andyinuk (~andyinuk@cpc1-nrte23-2-0-cust28.8-4.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi
[19:40] Laurenceb (~Laurence@host86-171-4-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[19:48] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:48] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:51] <DL7AD> hi jcoxon
[19:51] <jcoxon> hey DL7AD
[19:52] <jcoxon> B-45 looking good, assume it'll get picked up again once it gets close to the middle east
[19:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> hi jcoxon
[19:53] <Laurenceb> typed henry into farnell expecting inductors
[19:53] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/numatic/hvr-200-240v/vac-henry-hvr200-240v/dp/1558505
[19:54] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[19:55] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[19:55] ibanezmatt13 (~ibanezmat@host109-152-43-34.range109-152.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: TV
[19:58] <jcoxon> hooray for henry hoovers
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> They are pretty awesome.
[20:02] <jcoxon> they have other types
[20:02] <jcoxon> there is a james hover
[20:03] <jcoxon> http://www.henryhoovers.co.uk/james-vacuum-cleaner-jvp180a.html?utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=XMLbase_feed&utm_term=James+Vacuum+Cleaner+JVP180A&utm_campaign=James_Hoover&gclid=CPuF0cyk470CFWUOwwodd4MAMQ
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I like the actually reasonably quietness
[20:06] Hiena (~boreger@81.93.195.181.datatrans.hu) left irc: Quit: Konversation terminated!
[20:19] Jededu (~EduSuppor@cpc4-perr14-2-0-cust20.19-1.cable.virginm.net) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[20:21] <LeoBodnar> what, it does not have 100 times patented over digital motor that spins faster than the Formula One engine?
[20:22] <Upu> heh
[20:22] <nats`> LeoBodnar you forget it can dry your hand too !
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> i don't know how humankind have been drying their hands and paws before that
[20:24] <Upu> slowly
[20:26] <nats`> with gas and fire !
[20:27] <chrisstubbs> I still prefer paper towels
[20:30] <cm13g09> lol
[20:30] <cm13g09> this conversation sucks a bit... why can't we float some other idea?
[20:31] jedas (~gedas@88.118.46.200) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[20:32] <chrisstubbs> #highaltitude - the only IRC channel with no loss of punnage
[20:32] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: must run over TCP then ;)
[20:32] <nats`> cm13g09 we could talk about a cheap new gas source for balloon !
[20:33] <cm13g09> nats`: true :P
[20:34] <mfa298> I'm not sure you can fly a hab on lots of hot air
[20:34] <cm13g09> mfa298: there's not a lot of that around here that's for sure
[20:35] <nats`> cm13g09 true it's more inside than around :D
[20:36] <nats`> or at least you don't love it when around :p
[20:36] <cm13g09> nice one nats` :P
[20:36] <cm13g09> anyway
[20:36] <cm13g09> back later - going to get some shopping :)
[20:43] LeoBodnar (4e9672c1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.150.114.193) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[20:45] marshall_law_ (~marshall_@97-93-250-127.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[20:51] DL7AD (~quassel@brln-4db9cc31.pool.mediaWays.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[20:57] sp2ipt (~sp2ipt@89-69-164-149.dynamic.chello.pl) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[20:57] malgar (~malgar@151.18.230.229) joined #highaltitude.
[20:58] sp2ipt (~sp2ipt@89-69-164-149.dynamic.chello.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[21:08] malclocke (~malc@203.86.205.237) joined #highaltitude.
[21:09] marshall_law (~marshall_@97-93-250-127.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com) joined #highaltitude.
[21:15] number10 (519a08f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.154.8.244) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[21:21] RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@109.201.154.222) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[21:22] RaptorJesus (~RaptorJes@109.201.154.132) joined #highaltitude.
[21:26] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[21:26] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) joined #highaltitude.
[21:26] malclocke (~malc@203.86.205.237) left irc: Ping timeout: 258 seconds
[21:27] malclocke (~malc@203.86.205.237) joined #highaltitude.
[21:37] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[21:46] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) left irc: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.
[21:46] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) joined #highaltitude.
[21:46] SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) joined #highaltitude.
[21:51] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) left irc: Quit: night all
[21:53] bertrik (~quassel@rockbox/developer/bertrik) left irc: Remote host closed the connection
[21:55] wikrok (~quassel@2605:6400:1:fed5:22:c311:57c0:511f) joined #highaltitude.
[21:59] LeoBodnar (0264cf5c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.100.207.92) joined #highaltitude.
[22:01] <wikrok> hi
[22:01] <wikrok> I don't suppose anyone here can give me some information about using the Elsworth launch site?
[22:05] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: you should do a WSPR pico :P
[22:06] <Laurenceb> it looks like the air cored inductors would weight a few grams
[22:06] malgar (~malgar@151.18.230.229) left irc: Ping timeout: 240 seconds
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> they can be wound on a very light core
[22:08] <Laurenceb> haha
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> so < 1g each
[22:08] <Laurenceb> well theres the mass of copper
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> i don't have a chip that can do 27 144 and 434 Mhz at the same time
[22:08] <Laurenceb> yeah
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> but i can do 27 and 434
[22:08] <Laurenceb> interesting
[22:08] <LeoBodnar> sorry 27 and 144
[22:09] <Laurenceb> using the pll chip?
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[22:09] <Laurenceb> neat
[22:09] <Laurenceb> the problem with this small resonant stuff is that the radiation impedance is small
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> 4060 VCO simply won't lock below 120-ish MHz
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> large?
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> oh resonant
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> still would be fun to test
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> i think i have tried 27MHz in the past
[22:11] <Laurenceb> so the inductors series resistance needs to be lower than the radiation
[22:11] <LeoBodnar> 26MHz ISM
[22:11] <Laurenceb> so you only have a few ohms to play with
[22:11] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[22:11] DL7AD_mobile2 (~androirc@ip-109-45-2-13.web.vodafone.de) joined #highaltitude.
[22:11] <Laurenceb> but 2 x 7µH looks doable in a couple of grams
[22:11] <Laurenceb> i was looking at 20m too :P
[22:12] <Laurenceb> less feasible unfortunately :-/
[22:12] <Laurenceb> brb
[22:12] <gonzo__> your loading coils will be bigger/heavier than one of leo's whole payloads
[22:14] kuldeepdhaka (~kuldeepdh@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka) left irc: Quit: sleep()
[22:14] <Laurenceb> haha almost
[22:14] <Laurenceb> coil calculator said 8 grams for 20m
[22:15] <Laurenceb> maybe there is some sort of capacitive loading design
[22:15] <Laurenceb> i dont know much about antenni
[22:17] <Laurenceb> its all very weird
[22:20] <mattbrejza> is wspr fsk? ive made 27MHz transmitters with a few discrete components, although extra board space over somehow using the same IC for all three bands
[22:22] <Laurenceb> Modulation: continuous phase 4-FSK, tone separation 1.4648 Hz
[22:23] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-171-136-88.range86-171.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[22:23] <mattbrejza> so you could just a crystal pulled thing
[22:24] <Laurenceb> your parents FSK you up they do
[22:24] <Laurenceb> i doubt that would work
[22:25] <Laurenceb> its using an optimal coherent FSK demodulator
[22:25] <Laurenceb> so it will need PLL
[22:25] <mattbrejza> its continuous phase
[22:25] <mattbrejza> you just need to make sure the spacing and baud is correct
[22:25] <Laurenceb> not quite the same thing
[22:26] <Laurenceb> inter symbol is continuous
[22:26] <Laurenceb> but the deviation might drift
[22:26] <Laurenceb> causing phase drifts through the packet that are data dependant
[22:26] <Laurenceb> then it wont decode
[22:26] <mattbrejza> yea thats what i was thinking, depends how much drift it can deal with
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> what's 10m freq?
[22:32] <mattbrejza> ism?
[22:32] <mattbrejza> 27.12
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> wspr 10m?
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> 28.1246 ?
[22:33] <mattbrejza> not sure
[22:34] RocketBoy (steverand@0541e410.skybroadband.com) left #highaltitude.
[22:41] beingaware (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) joined #highaltitude.
[22:44] nosebleedkt (~nosebleed@ppp079166090188.access.hol.gr) left irc:
[22:44] LazyLeopard (~irc-clien@chocky.demon.co.uk) left irc: Quit: Now QRT
[22:48] <Laurenceb> yeah
[22:48] <Laurenceb> or something
[22:49] <Laurenceb> its on the wsprnet site
[22:51] jcoxon (~jcoxon@host86-163-166-166.range86-163.btcentralplus.com) left irc: Quit: Leaving
[22:52] Willdude (~Willdude1@unaffiliated/willdude123) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[22:58] <Laurenceb> http://gerolfziegenhain.wordpress.com/2013/04/13/raspi-as-wspr-transmitter/
[22:58] <Laurenceb> "Immediately my 10mW have been received in 743km distance by G6HUI "
[22:58] <Laurenceb> hah
[22:58] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488A830.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) left irc: Quit: Verlassend
[22:59] <BrainDamage> omg FTL
[23:00] <Laurenceb> rofl
[23:11] <qyx_> 7869km with 10mW
[23:11] <qyx_> ?
[23:12] <Laurenceb> yup
[23:13] <Laurenceb> people do halfway round the world on 1mw most nights
[23:14] <qyx_> hm, wikiing it
[23:15] <qyx_> -28dB reception
[23:15] <qyx_> Keying rate: 12000/8192 = 1.4648 baud
[23:15] <qyx_> does it use dsss?
[23:23] beingaware (~beingawar@pi.icanhaz.org) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[00:00] --- Wed Apr 16 2014