highaltitude.log.20140414

[00:09] <DL7AD> hi arko
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[09:42] <nats`> hi
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[10:02] <DL7AD_> hi nats`
[10:06] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
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[10:35] <Laurenceb_> any bash script experts here?
[10:37] <Laurenceb_> im having issues with
[10:37] <Laurenceb_> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Chibi-Spectro/blob/master/tests/scripts/grab.sh
[10:37] <Laurenceb_> ignore lines 2 to 4
[10:37] <Laurenceb_> the grab_data() function is adding junk to the start of some lines
[10:38] <Laurenceb_> any idea whats wrong?
[10:41] <mfa298> you may be getting control codes through it's hard to tell without having a similar setup and/or seeing the data you're getting back
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> just a sec
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> http://pastie.org/9079282
[10:41] <mfa298> might be worth looking to see if the read function would suit your purpose
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> right
[10:42] <mfa298> I'm guessing the extra data your seeing is the 11 at the start of line 8
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> yes
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> sometimes there is missing data
[10:43] <mfa298> it could also be something else using the serial port (I think ttyACM0 is a serial port)
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> yes
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> maybe i ran the script twice and it didnt kill everything
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[10:48] <DL7AD> B-45 will reach Israel in 2 days.... on the way to israel there will be no receiver in north africa.
[10:53] <DL7AD> www.dl7ad.de/hab_contacts/balloon2.php?filter=B-45
[10:53] <Laurenceb_> mfa298: do you think that could explain what I am seeing?
[10:56] <mfa298> something else trying to talk to the serial port could give you some issues like that
[10:56] <Laurenceb_> right
[10:56] <Laurenceb_> thankd
[10:56] <mfa298> I've not used the serial port from bash only in C code
[10:56] <Laurenceb_> right
[10:57] <mfa298> and not seen that issue but I did go through and stop things using the serial port first (that was on a pi)
[10:59] <LeoBodnar> DL7AD how did you insert extra points?
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[11:05] <andy_vk3yt> ping Darkside
[11:05] <malclocke> Laurenceb_, maybe you need to stty raw on the serial port or similar?
[11:06] <Laurenceb_> what would that do?
[11:06] <Laurenceb_> what would i set?
[11:07] <Darkside> andy_vk3yt: pong
[11:07] <Darkside> just got home
[11:08] <andy_vk3yt> Hi Darkside, I have a PICO heading your way
[11:08] <Darkside> oh what
[11:08] <andy_vk3yt> from Robe :)
[11:09] <andy_vk3yt> no APRS coverage here
[11:09] <Darkside> what are you doing in rob?
[11:09] <Darkside> robe*
[11:09] <andy_vk3yt> just a road trip
[11:10] <Darkside> heh ok
[11:10] <Darkside> any predictions?
[11:10] <malclocke> sorry, can't give you exact instructions, but googling bash stty serial might give you some leads
[11:11] <malclocke> and it might also not be your problem .. <shrug>
[11:11] <Darkside> andy_vk3yt: how long do you expect it to last?
[11:11] <andy_vk3yt> 72H?
[11:11] <andy_vk3yt> javascript:wndw('/hypubout/160548_trj001.gif');
[11:11] <Darkside> :P
[11:11] <Darkside> that workd
[11:11] <Darkside> lol
[11:11] <andy_vk3yt> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/160548_trj001.gif
[11:11] <andy_vk3yt> :)
[11:11] <Darkside> neat
[11:11] <Darkside> it should have APRS coverage for a fair while
[11:12] <WillTablet> Is it possible to use gdb on an arduino?
[11:12] <andy_vk3yt> is probably 4000m now, should be in range of digipeaters when it gets to 7000m
[11:12] <Darkside> andy_vk3yt: yeah, theres a few up here that'll work fine
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[11:12] <Darkside> hrm
[11:12] <Darkside> what path is it beaconing
[11:13] <andy_vk3yt> WIDE2-1
[11:13] <Darkside> hrm, WIDE2-1 should work..
[11:13] <Darkside> mayb
[11:13] <andy_vk3yt> it will attempt to track ISS
[11:13] <Darkside> lol
[11:13] <Darkside> ok
[11:13] <Darkside> but the antenna wouldn't be ideal for that
[11:13] <andy_vk3yt> and send beacon when close by!
[11:14] <andy_vk3yt> yeah, I have dipole, see how it goes
[11:14] <Darkside> mmk
[11:14] <Darkside> is that what the EL=-44 valu is?
[11:14] <Darkside> elevation of the ISS
[11:14] <andy_vk3yt> yes, elevation
[11:14] <Darkside> cool
[11:15] <Darkside> well, if it bursts anywhre near here i'll go for a hunt
[11:15] <andy_vk3yt> cool!
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[11:21] <mfa298> WillTablet: not sure you can use gdb directly on an arduino although for most issues you're likely to see with arduino code print statments would probably work and are much easier than using gdb
[11:22] <fsphil> debug the proper way. blink an LED
[11:22] <mfa298> gdb is more useful when you have lots of things happening (multiple threads etc) and want to break on specific conditions, or when you're doing crazy stuff in memmory pointers to arrays of structs etc.
[11:23] <gonzo__> that is stratimng to sound like it's nolonger micro controler teratory!
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[11:28] <LeoBodnar> how do you guys calculate ISS visibility and doppler on a micro?
[11:29] <Darkside> well doppler wouldnt matter
[11:29] <Darkside> not on 2m anyway
[11:29] <Darkside> theres a really lightweight algorithm for sat calculations
[11:29] <Darkside> i forget what its called, but it can be implemented on a microcontroller
[11:30] <andy_vk3yt> Plan13
[11:30] <Darkside> thats it
[11:30] <andy_vk3yt> what's what I am using
[11:30] <andy_vk3yt> that's
[11:33] <gonzo__> I've not heard that for a while!
[11:36] <Laurenceb_> Plan9 is where its at
[11:36] <WillTablet> mfa298: or you could have radio debug?
[11:36] <WillTablet> Useful for freeing up the serial port for the ubx
[11:37] <WillTablet> *ublox
[11:37] <LeoBodnar> what's doppler in 2m?
[11:37] <LeoBodnar> *on
[11:38] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: it wouldnt be much
[11:38] <Darkside> maybe 5KHz
[11:38] <LeoBodnar> wow!
[11:38] <LeoBodnar> that's massive
[11:38] <Darkside> well
[11:38] <LeoBodnar> deviation is 3kHz
[11:38] <Darkside> not when a FM radios capture bandwidth is lik 16KHz
[11:38] <mfa298> WillTablet: depends on what you're trying to debug
[11:38] <Darkside> it'll still work
[11:38] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: i'v nevr had any problems working the ISS
[11:38] <Darkside> and i've nevr corrected for doppler
[11:38] <Darkside> i may be off on that figure btw
[11:38] <Darkside> could be less
[11:38] <LeoBodnar> you really want to squeeze the last bit of spec in this marginal situation
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> ok, i'll try to do ISS then
[11:39] <Darkside> mmm
[11:39] <WillTablet> Darkside: not even the problem of them rarely ever operating their ham equipment?
[11:39] <Darkside> WillTablet: i'm talking about the APRS digipeater
[11:39] <WillTablet> Ah
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[11:41] <Laurenceb_> what tx power do you need to work iss?
[11:42] <andy_vk3yt> the doppler is not that bad for 2m. Can't remember the exact number but I decided not to worry about it after seeing the calculation
[11:42] <Darkside> with a 3 element yagi, i've reliably workd it with 5W
[11:42] <andy_vk3yt> Stretching it with 50mW on PICO :)
[11:42] <Darkside> yeah
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[11:42] <andy_vk3yt> VK5 is picking up the PICO
[11:43] <Darkside> haha
[11:43] <Darkside> ducting to VK5RHO
[11:43] <Darkside> nice
[11:43] <aadamson> do any of you guys want plan13 already on a micro?
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[11:43] <aadamson> it's some cpp code, but I have the module already running on my stm32
[11:43] <Reb-SM3ULC> I really need to do doppler-correct when doing NOAA-apt at 137 MHz.
[11:43] <Darkside> andy_vk3yt: VK5RHO is about 5km to the north-east of me
[11:44] <andy_vk3yt> cool, you should be able to get a direct packet
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[11:44] <Darkside> not where i am i won't
[11:44] <Darkside> VK5RHO is on top of the ranges
[11:44] <Darkside> i'd have to go up to the ranges with a yagi
[11:45] <cm13g09> B45 still floating around somewhere?
[11:45] <LeoBodnar> plan-13 is BASIC hah
[11:46] <aadamson> it was originally created by james g3ruh in basic
[11:46] <gonzo__> proper line numbered basic I expect
[11:46] <Miek> ba
[11:46] <aadamson> the version that I have was ported to cpp and updated
[11:46] <Miek> oops
[11:46] <LeoBodnar> 100 of course
[11:46] <aadamson> it will calculate dopler as well
[11:47] <aadamson> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/plan13.zip
[11:47] <fsphil> 10 goto 10
[11:47] <gonzo__> I did all the programming projects at uni in old basic. Then when working, ported them to C. As PC's were in short supply
[11:48] <aadamson> it's pretty easy to use, I'll throw together a basic main for it
[11:48] <gonzo__> got the algorythms tested and working in a language I knew, buit written to be easy to port
[11:49] <andy_vk3yt> https://code.google.com/p/qrptracker/source/browse/trunk/Arduino/libraries/Plan13/Plan13.h?r=37
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[11:50] <Darkside> thats a lot of doubles
[11:51] <aadamson> http://bcas.tv/paste/results/wdYS7014.html
[11:51] <aadamson> basically how you call it
[11:52] <gonzo__> at bletchley park (well the computer museum part) they have lots of BBC-b 's. We were teacking the kids old basic and they loved it
[11:52] <aadamson> note, you have to set the values each time through the loop as they are changed... I need to modify that, but haven't take the teim
[11:52] <aadamson> time
[11:52] <aadamson> yes, where andy posted the link is where I got this from
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[11:55] <aadamson> if memory serves me, there is also a routine to predict if the iss is within your footprint (and it's obviously)
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[11:55] <aadamson> you can also go get the code from an open source project called *predict* - started onlinux
[11:55] <aadamson> linux
[11:57] <_cOdaC_> Hi guys, in my case I'd like to release a HAB. The calculations on http://habhub.org/calc/ say that I would need 3574L of Helium. Having a gas bottle and the balloon, how do I measure the amout of inflated gas or how do I ensure that I dont infalte too much or little?
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[11:58] <cm13g09> _cOdaC_: that sounds like a LOT of helium....
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[11:58] <_cOdaC_> The payload mass is 1200 grams, the balloon is Pawan 1200, ascent rate 5m/s
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[11:59] <aadamson> btw, here is howards version on a pic - http://www.g6lvb.com/Articles/LVBTracker2/2620test.c
[12:00] <daveake> No that amount of gas is correct
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[12:00] <daveake> botty where are you?
[12:01] <fsphil> it's busy planning to enslave all mankind
[12:01] <daveake> _cOdaC_ Take the neck lift, weigh the business end of your filler assembly and dedust that from the neck lift
[12:02] <daveake> Then find something that weighs the difference
[12:02] <daveake> e.g. a water bottle
[12:02] <fsphil> hmm.. we don't seem to have that on the wiki
[12:03] <daveake> So in your example, neck lift is 2.468kg. Suppose your filler weighs 200g, that leaves 2.268kg. Get (say) a 2.5L bottle and fill with water till it weighs 2.268kg
[12:03] <daveake> Attach that to the filler and fill till the balloon can just lift the whole lot in no wind*
[12:03] <daveake> *you may need to wait for that to happen
[12:03] <WillMobile> I just realised I had neodymium magnets in the same pocket as my debit card
[12:03] <daveake> you have a debit card?
[12:04] <fsphil> well it used to be a debit card
[12:04] <daveake> Thought you had to be 17 or something for those
[12:04] <aadamson> it's now a solder paste applying card :)
[12:04] <_cOdaC_> brilliant thanks dave!
[12:04] <fsphil> my bank wouldn't give me a debit card when I was 16, but I was able to get a credit card
[12:04] <daveake> !!
[12:05] <fsphil> yea
[12:05] <daveake> evil things I'm rid of mine
[12:05] <fsphil> they definitly are
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[12:05] <fsphil> I still use it but only for small stuff
[12:06] <mfa298> the only benefit of credit cards is the protection you get - although I think at least some banks will offer something similar on debit cards now.
[12:06] <fsphil> I'd also take it if I went travelling, good to have a backup
[12:06] <mfa298> but they're only good if you pay off the whole balance each month (which never seems to be the default option)
[12:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> andy_vk3yt: you have timed ascent with iss?
[12:07] <daveake> My company "credit" cards are ones that you have to pay off at the end of the month, which gets done by DD, so that works fine
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[12:08] <fsphil> same here
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[12:08] <andy_vk3yt> Red-SM3ULC: no, would like to but didn't have a chance
[12:08] <daveake> WillMobile failed to top up his mobile internet with his now dead card, I assume
[12:08] <fsphil> lol
[12:09] <fsphil> he set the magnet near the phone
[12:09] <daveake> I remember when chasing Babbage that my 3G mobile broadband card suddenly decided it needed a top-up, when Babbage was down to about 6km
[12:09] <daveake> Cue frantic grabbing of card to top it up
[12:12] <Reb-SM3ULC> andy_vk3yt: ah, but some "nice" elevetion on the passes right now?
[12:12] Nick change: MichaelC3 -> MichaelC
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[12:16] <Reb-SM3ULC> andy_vk3yt: +1.5 laps from now should be ok?
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[12:17] <mattbrejza> daveake: no offline mapping?
[12:17] <daveake> Don't think we did then, no
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[12:19] <daveake> But we also have video streaming to maintain
[12:19] <daveake> So we definitely wanted 3G to stay up
[12:21] <mattbrejza> us lot would have become restless
[12:21] <mattbrejza> would have missed you reversing up someones drive
[12:21] <daveake> ooer
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[12:26] <andy_vk3yt> Reb-SM3ULC: It won't bother unless the elevation is +20 or more
[12:26] <andy_vk3yt> too much distance otherwise
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[12:59] <Reb-SM3ULC> andy_vk3yt: ah, receiver on the balloon?
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[14:01] <Laurenceb_> did jcoxon get uplink for hab to iss working?
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[14:02] <nats`> duhhhhhhh
[14:03] <nats`> impossible to create a file named prn.h on windows 8
[14:03] <nats`> oO
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[14:04] <nats`> few comes from msddos legacy
[14:04] <DL7AD_mobile> Rofl nats`
[14:04] <nats`> CON, PRN, AUX, CLOCK$, NUL
[14:04] <nats`> COM1, COM2, COM3, COM4, COM5, COM6, COM7, COM8, COM9
[14:04] <nats`> LPT1, LPT2, LPT3, LPT4, LPT5, LPT6, LPT7, LPT8, and LPT9.
[14:04] <nats`> duhhhh I don't know what to think about that
[14:04] <DL7AD_mobile> Why do you use windows 8
[14:05] <nats`> because it works pretty well
[14:05] <fsphil> we found one!
[14:05] <fsphil> a happy win8 user
[14:06] <nats`> I was reluctant at the beginning but it saves my ass something like AO times :p
[14:06] <nats`> 10
[14:06] <DL7AD_mobile> This has been the first thing which have been banned on my new laptop :P
[14:06] <mattbrejza> if you create prn.h on a linux terminal into a network drive, it shows up as PITWVK~3.H in windows
[14:06] <nats`> they finally implemented a decent document incremential backup
[14:06] <nats`> DL7AD_mobile I prefer 8 to 7 now
[14:06] <mattbrejza> all win8 has over win7 is a full screen startmenu, that behaves the same way to keyboard inputs
[14:06] <nats`> I just wait that they allow to totally trash this ... interface at start
[14:06] <mattbrejza> not sure why all the hate
[14:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not sure its anything to do with Win8 its a standard nono in any version of DOS surely ?
[14:07] <fsphil> took me 10 minutes to figure out how to log out using that new interface
[14:07] <nats`> Geoff-G8DHE yep
[14:07] <nats`> DOS legacy
[14:07] <DL7AD_mobile> I had problems running win8...
[14:07] <nats`> DL7AD_mobile did you try the update in 8.1 ?
[14:07] <nats`> it changed manything
[14:07] <DL7AD_mobile> I did....
[14:08] <fsphil> the logout option is hidden under the username, which is just text with no indication that you can click on it
[14:08] <nats`> fsphil agree ont hat
[14:08] <fsphil> whoever designed the UI is a twat
[14:08] <nats`> but quicker way CTRL ALT DEL
[14:08] <nats`> it's right here :)
[14:08] <fsphil> this was a remote desktop, I couldn't :)
[14:08] <mfa298> I've been a happy windows 8 user for the last year. although the win8.1 upgrade takes a very long time.
[14:08] <daveake> fsphil ctrl-alt-end ?
[14:08] <fsphil> ...
[14:08] <DL7AD_mobile> For me it wasnt an improvement because my software didnt work anyway.
[14:08] <mfa298> I started the 4GB download last night and it was still installing when I left this morning!
[14:09] <cm13g09> mfa298: I briefly had 8.1 at my old work....
[14:09] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi-OSCAR_50
[14:09] <DL7AD_mobile> And controlling it is awful
[14:09] <cm13g09> Hated it
[14:09] <nats`> mfa298 I'm surprised took less than 1 hours here
[14:09] <fsphil> daveake: er, yes. that works. *goes quiet*
[14:09] <nats`> maybe because I did the upgrade directly on fresh install
[14:09] <daveake> fsphil ha :)
[14:10] <cm13g09> nats`: I can believe that it might take a while for mfa298 to download it...
[14:10] <cm13g09> He's on an archaic exchange which doesn't do faster than 8Mbps if you ask for it
[14:10] <nats`> :D
[14:10] <daveake> I dream of 8Mbps
[14:10] <nats`> :D
[14:11] <mfa298> should have only been around 1 hour to download
[14:11] <nats`> at works..... it's local local network :D
[14:11] <DL7AD_mobile> 500k :P
[14:11] <nats`> the advantage to work for an ISP
[14:11] <fsphil> I'll fly a wifi access point for you daveake
[14:11] <nats`> directly in fiber to the backbone
[14:11] <cm13g09> nats`: I work for an ISP
[14:11] <fsphil> two big 2.4ghz antennas either side, should get about 6mbit/s :)
[14:11] <nats`> cm13g09 in what country ? :)
[14:11] <cm13g09> UK
[14:12] <nats`> hehe :)
[14:12] <mfa298> I think the actual installing part is probably fairly quick just lots of it thinking about things first
[14:12] <daveake> About 5.5Mbps down and 0.31Mbps up here. 3G is slightly faster on down and much faster on up
[14:12] <daveake> But no really unlimited 3G available
[14:12] <nats`> I love the french internet :)
[14:12] <fsphil> other than latency, I think satellite would be faster
[14:12] <nats`> maybe the only thing with cellphone we have for us :p
[14:14] <nats`> so in conclusion win8.1 can't run any DOS things but filename are still reserved :D
[14:14] <mfa298> woohoo the rumors I heard a while back were true. The 2-3 monthly update on samknows has finally ended: FTTC status:
[14:14] <mfa298> Available in some areas
[14:14] <mattbrejza> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2003/10/22/55388.aspx nats`
[14:14] <mattbrejza> 'But why do we carry these magic filenames forward even today?
[14:14] <mattbrejza> Because everybody still relies on them. Just look at all the batch files that do things like redirect to >NUL or test if a directory exists by asking "if exist directoryname\nul", or all the documentation that says to create a file with "copy CON ...".'
[14:15] <nats`> yep true
[14:15] <fsphil> "FTTP status: Not available" :(
[14:15] Action: mfa298 wonders how long until the ISP starts providing a >8mbps service
[14:15] <nats`> I'm an extremist of "drop everything no more usefull" philosophy
[14:15] <mfa298> I've got fttp not available as well.
[14:16] <mfa298> but until recently FTTC was always due in -1 -> 2 months time where the date got updated every 3 months about 2 weeks after the last date had passed
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[14:18] <cm13g09> mfa298: my flat is slated for FTTP
[14:19] <mattbrejza> most fibre is still fttc in soton mfa298 ?
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[14:21] <mfa298> mattbrejza: fttc is (at some point) an improvment for me - up until recently it's just been Fibre to the Exchange (so no different to the last 10+ years of adsl)
[14:22] <mattbrejza> i thought exchanges have had fibre for ages :/
[14:23] <daveake> FTTC date here has been pushed back from 1st June to 30th
[14:23] <cm13g09> mfa298: I had TalkTalk ring me up offering me fibre.....
[14:23] <mattbrejza> persumably jsut waiting for them to lay fibre to the box round the corner?
[14:23] <mfa298> most of soton has also had FTTC for ages but not the Bassett Exchange.
[14:23] <mattbrejza> '
[14:23] <mattbrejza> Exchange Name: BASSETT
[14:23] <mattbrejza> Status: Accepting Orders'
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[14:24] <cm13g09> I had to quickly point out that although it wouldn't cost much extra, they couldn't provide this service :)
[14:24] <mattbrejza> do they dig up the road to each cabinet or can they feed it through ducting?
[14:24] <cm13g09> mattbrejza: It says that for STHMPTN
[14:24] <cm13g09> mattbrejza: through the ducting
[14:24] <cm13g09> usually
[14:24] <cm13g09> although they do tend to dig up the pavement next to the cab
[14:24] <daveake> Anyone know how you can find out where your cabinet actually is?
[14:24] <daveake> Aside from walking :/
[14:24] <cm13g09> and put in another new cab
[14:25] <cm13g09> daveake: I can probably look it up
[14:25] <mattbrejza> and then virgin and bt each lay their own fibre to their own cabinets?
[14:25] <daveake> I'm hoping it's somewhere closer than the exchange is :/
[14:25] <cm13g09> daveake: it will be
[14:25] <daveake> You have PM :)
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[14:27] <Laurenceb_> b-45 back
[14:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh Gibralter heard it!
[14:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Well allright Spain
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[14:59] <DL7AD_mobile2> Ping LeoBodnar
[14:59] <LeoBodnar> hey
[15:00] <DL7AD_mobile2> PM
[15:00] <LeoBodnar> B-45 had 475km APRS hit using 15mW
[15:01] <UpuWork> yup
[15:01] <UpuWork> the repeater is 1.5km up a mountain in Spain :)
[15:02] <LeoBodnar> thus the limiting factor is LOS and *not* the tx power as has been proven many times before
[15:03] <LeoBodnar> and this is using FM
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[15:07] <SilverIV7> Does anyone know of any software like this for creating circuits? We used this one back in school 10 years or so ago (crocodile clips) would be nice to have a more advanced version if it exists http://www.generation5.org/content/2002/images/ct05.gif
[15:07] <chrisstubbs> crocodile clips is still about
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[15:08] <chrisstubbs> there are probably better tools though
[15:08] <chrisstubbs> NI multisim is a simalar kind of thing
[15:08] <adamgreig> haha oh boy, crocodile clips
[15:08] <adamgreig> not seen that for quite a while
[15:09] <nats`> SilverIV7 it should have the same sort of iconic style ?
[15:09] <nats`> (if no I would say ltspice or labview)
[15:10] <mattbrejza> did you want to just draw (eagle), or simulate (ltspice)?
[15:10] <SilverIV7> I just want something for testing circuits on really, not done any for a very long time so need something to blow some fake components up first :p
[15:10] <nats`> check ltspice
[15:10] <nats`> easy to use free and powerfull
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[15:11] <SilverIV7> thanks i'll take a look
[15:11] <mattbrejza> ltspice is more for analgoue similation, rather than croc clips where stuff has a little blowing up animation if you do something wrong
[15:12] <nats`> ohh in that case ltspice is not realy usable
[15:12] <nats`> it doesn't indicate anything on limit problem
[15:12] <nats`> (it should in the future)
[15:13] <cm13g09> the new version of Croc Clips is called "Yenka"
[15:13] <cm13g09> and is mediocre.....
[15:14] <mattbrejza> dont suppose anyones created an online flash version of croc clips?
[15:14] <mattbrejza> in particular the chemistry one
[15:14] <SilverIV7> okay, i'll probably take a look at both, it's only for a very simple circuit
[15:14] <adamgreig> SilverIV7: check out https://www.circuitlab.com/
[15:14] <adamgreig> it's not unlike an online version of croc clips
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[15:15] <SilverIV7> i 'switched' from electronics to programming in 2005 because it was more accesible as a teen so well out of practise
[15:16] <mfa298> autodesk also have their 123d circuits application (possibly web based) although that may be more drawing circuits rather than simulation
[15:32] <LeoBodnar> B-45: 550km APRS packet from Algeria to Benidorm
[15:33] <mattbrejza> still los?
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[15:33] <mattbrejza> or is the water helping propagation?
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[15:35] <Laurenceb_> wow nice
[15:35] <Laurenceb_> is there a prediction?
[15:36] <LeoBodnar> It is probably still LOS as digi is quite high
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[15:42] <Laurenceb_> hysplit seems ot be broken
[15:42] <UpuWork> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/167891_trj001.gif
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[15:43] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/169266_trj001.gif
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> oops
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> lol]
[15:43] <Laurenceb_> not much aprs :-/
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[15:53] <SilverIV7> What's an ideal / cheapish (< £100) roof antenna for the NTX2B?
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[15:54] <UpuWork> roof antenna ?
[15:54] <SilverIV7> for the receiver to be able to best see it?
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[15:54] <UpuWork> for an actual launch or just testing ?
[15:56] <SilverIV7> actual launch, it would be used as well as others ideally
[15:56] <UpuWork> well the colinears are good
[15:56] <UpuWork> Watson W-50 Diamond X-50 etc
[15:56] <UpuWork> right afk
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[16:09] <LeoBodnar> hey SP9UOB-Tom
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[17:05] <Laurenceb_> B-45 beats B-6 :P
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[17:12] <bertrik> very nice, I wonder if it's going to come back up north to europe again
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ - in several hours.
[17:14] <SpeedEvil> This is the one with the sea-landing with actual legs.
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> (without alas any hope of it floating)
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[17:18] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/170753_trj001.gif
[17:18] <Laurenceb_> heading further north now
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[17:29] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, working on testing my spv1040 circuit. got 2 cells in parallel, connect them to the PV side... I guess it actually requires the lipo to be connected as well as all I get out the output is approx the same as I put in the input (under house light approx .4v)? Reading the datasheet, it seems it needs battery connected on the output side? Just wanting to confirm this
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[17:37] <mikestir> aadamson: I've decided I'm not going to use either of the TI switchers! I'm going to try the ADP1607, which doesn't have the LDO mode, but I only intend to use it on a single cell anyway
[17:37] <mikestir> it's incredibly efficient
[17:39] <aadamson> you know it's funny you mention that.
[17:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> hey LeoBodnar
[17:39] <aadamson> Another friend swears by those
[17:40] <eroomde> i have used that part before i think
[17:41] <aadamson> it's 2 trades offs are it's a 2mhz pwm part, and it only goes down (to the datasheet) to .8v
[17:41] <aadamson> That and it's damn 2x2mm part... sheesh
[17:41] <Laurenceb_> its step up only too
[17:42] <aadamson> Laurenceb_, yea, we are talking boost only
[17:42] <Laurenceb_> ok if you just want a 3.3v off AA or AAA i guess
[17:42] <eroomde> aint we all
[17:42] <aadamson> 1-2 cell stuff
[17:42] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: or 1.8V stuff
[17:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> mikestir: Try microchip's MCP1640
[17:43] <mikestir> SP9UOB-Tom: I looked at that as well, but it looked a bit weedy
[17:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> mikestir: in my designs its working well.
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[17:44] <mikestir> I'll have another look, because that one would be easier to solder. I thought it was a bit marginal on output current under some conditions (maybe low Vin and low Vout?)
[17:44] <Laurenceb_> looks like B-45 is planning to meet up with B-44
[17:45] <aadamson> mikestir, all of these get pretty funky when over their prime spot on the current curve
[17:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> mikestir: look at the central part of the PCB http://sp9uob.verox.pl/balon/seba7-inside.jpg
[17:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> mikestir: it has little problems working below 1.8V
[17:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> output
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[17:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> mikestir: err. below 2.0V output
[17:47] <aadamson> btw, I think you'll find the other TI part, 61200 and or the Linear part have a lower *startup* voltage
[17:47] <aadamson> if that interests you any
[17:47] <aadamson> the AD is pretty high
[17:48] <aadamson> btw, the little DFN's are that hard if you get stencil and use a toaster oven
[17:48] <aadamson> are = aren't... sorry
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[17:52] <DL7AD_mobile> But you need themal disposal at dfn
[17:52] <DL7AD_mobile> And sot isnt that much larger
[17:53] <DL7AD_mobile> In using the same one and chose sot23-6 case
[17:53] <LeoBodnar> hometime, I will catch up with questions later tonight
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[18:12] <mikestir> aadamson: I know the startup isn't so great, but I'm not planning on starting with a flat battery :)
[18:13] <aadamson> ya, its just that if you have any form of *glitch* and you are below that range, the boost controller won't restart
[18:13] <aadamson> whereas some other one will... you saw my 61200 chart, went down to .55v
[18:13] <aadamson> and I can't remember what it's startup voltage is
[18:13] <aadamson> .6 or .7 I think
[18:13] <mikestir> no 61200 goes down to .3
[18:14] <mikestir> but it's really inefficient compared with some of the others
[18:14] <aadamson> had to look what I used.
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[18:14] <aadamson> prmary is the linear part
[18:14] <aadamson> too many use it with good results not too
[18:14] <mikestir> I would hazard a guess that one of the 90% ones running down to 0.8/0.9V would actually last longer than running at 60% down to 0.6
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[18:15] <mikestir> since the cell is essentially fully depleted at 0.9V anyway
[18:15] <aadamson> startup on the 61200 is .5v
[18:16] <aadamson> startup on ltc3526L is .7v
[18:16] <aadamson> both are min .5, but I didn't see that on the ltc, it went to .7 and then started resetting
[18:16] <mikestir> yeah the linear one ticks all the boxes, but I'm trying to keep the BOM down
[18:16] <aadamson> yeah understood
[18:16] <jcoxon> hehe B-45 is heading back to Europe
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[18:17] <aadamson> check either 3526 or 3526L (the later is newer and may cost more).
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[18:26] <jcoxon> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/2014/april/j43vhf_callign_for_greek_balloon.htm#.U0woSeZdXFE
[18:26] <aadamson> mikestir, you are right (never looked before) that ltc is pretty pricey
[18:30] <DL7AD_mobile2> aadamson how much?
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[18:45] <Reb-SM3ULC> Impressive range for ea5hnu, b-45
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[19:12] <aadamson> DL7AD_mobile2, $4 and change US for qty 1
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[19:26] <DL7AD> jysdjksydjksydjkysdkduxxxasaASOSD
[19:26] <aadamson> and (drum rolll please)... I works :)
[19:26] <aadamson> DL7AD's keyboard that is
[19:26] <DL7AD> Upu: ping
[19:26] <DL7AD> :D
[19:27] <DL7AD> is an origional qwertz keyboard not qwerty
[19:27] <DL7AD> ;)
[19:28] <sp2ipt> DL7AD: where did u get such an oldie :)
[19:28] <DL7AD> sp2ipt: do you use qwerty too in poland?
[19:29] <sp2ipt> DL7AD: yes - old writing machine keyboards used to have that layout, first computer ones also
[19:29] <DL7AD> oO
[19:31] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: leo? do you still chew your dinner?
[19:31] <LeoBodnar> just spat it out, what?
[19:32] <DL7AD> how did you proof that your tracker switches frequency in china`?
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> Actually didn't - but i am having nice fresh buffallo mozzarella
[19:33] <DL7AD> bon appetit
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> because i have tested it with successively feeding it with GPS data for each square degree of lat/lon for the whole world
[19:34] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: do you have a gps-simulator?
[19:34] <LeoBodnar> and tuning receiver to appropriate freqeuncies
[19:34] <LeoBodnar> and plotting them on the map off-line
[19:35] <LeoBodnar> no, but for lat = -90 to +90 : for lon = -180 to +180 do ...
[19:35] <DL7AD> ah okay
[19:36] <DL7AD> i have to ask my professor if i could use the gps simulator in the university. recently heared about they have one.... :P
[19:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> aadamson: drums as requested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqCOZGqf3TU
[19:37] <sp2ipt> oh, another young thing :)
[19:37] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: how much did the filming cost?
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: do you write log to EEPROM or FLASH?
[19:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: eeprom
[19:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: less risk to overwrite firmware if something goes wrong :-)
[19:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: dont know, bit it was best polish videoclib of '84
[19:39] <LeoBodnar> i see
[19:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> *Videoclip
[19:39] <sp2ipt> DL7AD: probably a lot - it's the 80's technology in SP :)
[19:40] <bertrik> out of curiosity, has G-03 been recovered?
[19:41] <aadamson> btw, somewhere I have seen an open source gps simulator... hmmm
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[19:41] <DL7AD> aadamson: shoot
[19:42] <aadamson> well for starters google open source gps simulator, there are a couple,
[19:42] <aadamson> not the ones I had seen however, still looking
[19:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: log is usefull when someone find the payload (in few years :-))
[19:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: do You like this clip? Marek Bilinski makes awesome music
[19:43] <aadamson> ah, never mind, what I had seen was an iridium simulator.
[19:43] <aadamson> but I know there are also open source gps simulators
[19:43] <myself> wot?
[19:44] <sp2ipt> DL7AD: there's a GPS toolbox for matlab - you could probably get a trial for it for your univ. It will work for a month
[19:44] <myself> there are open source NMEA sentence generators / players..
[19:44] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: hm.... bearable. well not my actualy style
[19:44] <myself> I haven't seen any F/OSS GPS constellation simulators.
[19:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: ok :)
[19:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: what kond of music do You like ?
[19:45] <DL7AD> sp2ipt: matlab is installed on the university's computers but they dont give away license for students
[19:45] <aadamson> DL7AD, if you look through that google list, you'll see the ones that will work in octave
[19:45] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: such like this. https://www.youtube.com/user/Liquicity its probably the same but modern
[19:47] <DL7AD> aadamson: work in octave?
[19:47] <aadamson> http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/gps-toolbox/MPsimul.htm for example
[19:48] <sp2ipt> DL7AD: I haven't actually tried as a student but I'd at least try to fill in the form giving the univ e-mail :) I've been using trial for a few months now (waiting for the delivery of a normal version) and for the first time they didn't ask a thing
[19:48] <aadamson> http://gpsfeed.sourceforge.net/ - but that is probably more what you are looking for
[19:49] <sp2ipt> DL7AD: unless of course you find another easier solution :)
[19:49] <DL7AD> aadamson: ehm yes but therefore you need an sdr additionally, isn't it?
[19:49] <aadamson> gpsfeed+ is a utility that feeds the PC with continuous GPS data as if a GPS were moving in a car or airplane. NMEA 0183 GPS sentences are sent to the application through a socket (TCP/IP) connection or a UDP multicast message. It also outputs the same NMEA data to a serial port of the PC. Polling applications can query the embedded lightweight http server to obtain gps data either in text form or as an XML data snippet.
[19:49] <aadamson> I don't think so... however
[19:50] <aadamson> you'd need a socket interface in the code you were testing :)
[19:50] <aadamson> that might be a little harder
[19:50] <DL7AD> sp2ipt: hm....
[19:50] <LeoBodnar> it's just a NMEA sentences playback thingy
[19:50] <DL7AD> i thought of a transmitting gps simulator...
[19:50] <aadamson> but DL7AD what are you trying to do?
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> i thought you are talking about properly modulated RF signal
[19:51] <myself> Over-the-air is much, much harder. There are a zillion variables.
[19:51] <DL7AD> and i know my university has one
[19:51] <aadamson> if you are trying to simulate how your code is going to react you are going to need to pipe the data into the serial port on the target as if it were a gps attached
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> it's actually trivial
[19:51] <sp2ipt> DL7AD: and one more thing - I don't use gps toolbox - have enough problems with ex xpc target
[19:51] <LeoBodnar> if used with C/A code only
[19:52] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, my question may have slipped through the cracks *or I missed your answer*. Does the spv1040 need the battery connected in order to start up and function... I believe yes, but wanted to ask the master?
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> yes!
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> or BFC
[19:53] <aadamson> thank you master... bfc?
[19:53] <sp2ipt> gotta go, bbl
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> well C stands for capacitor you can guess the rest
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[19:53] <DL7AD> BFC......l beat feedback current :D
[19:53] <aadamson> ah got it
[19:54] <aadamson> big fing capacitor :)
[19:54] <aadamson> or supercap :)
[19:54] <LeoBodnar> yep
[19:54] <LeoBodnar> it's pretty much equivalent to LiPo
[19:54] <aadamson> wow, and *new* learing with solar panels.
[19:55] <aadamson> soldering to them you have to be wicked fast
[19:55] <aadamson> or they don't take solder
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> ah indeed
[19:55] <aadamson> not sure what happens, but first time I didn't do that and then I wondered why I couldn't get solder to stick even with flux
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> i have managed to find one solder type that does not mop up the conductive stuff they are covered with
[19:56] <LeoBodnar> you end up with clean silicon slate :D
[19:56] <DL7AD> got another dot from B-45
[19:56] <aadamson> well good old kester 44 does!
[19:56] <cm13g09> that was... er... fun :P
[19:56] <cm13g09> Just rekeyed all the SSL certs
[19:56] <LeoBodnar> and use minimum soldering temp you can still solder at
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> or maybe use conductive epoxy if really stuck
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[19:59] <Laurenceb> tried acid flux?
[20:00] <Laurenceb> B-45 updated
[20:02] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/174195_trj001.gif
[20:02] <Laurenceb> it seems to be swinging to the north
[20:03] <Laurenceb> might get aprs from turkey
[20:03] <DL7AD> i know receivers in greece which can receive on 70cm
[20:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> malta has some nice antennas also
[20:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> for arps at elast
[20:03] <DL7AD> Reb-SM3ULC: malta is not that efficient than spain :/
[20:04] <Reb-SM3ULC> DL7AD: that was some impressive range
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[20:04] <DL7AD> spain? yes definitley
[20:05] <Reb-SM3ULC> DL7AD: trying to play a little with aprs to calc range from current receivers
[20:05] <DL7AD> cool
[20:08] <Reb-SM3ULC> very novice with aprs... would have been so nice if there were some timestamps at some time.. keep seeing very old packets stumbling in...
[20:08] <aadamson> ah, interesting... so I took the panel that I thought I'd messed up yesterday... I found some information online, I scraped off the gray coating on the back down to a silver colored material, (I was unable to solder to back), put meter to that spot and the front slot/tab and poof, voltage
[20:08] <jcoxon> all picos seem to go through the middle east corridor
[20:09] <jcoxon> we need to get some 70cm rx'ers there
[20:09] <jcoxon> understandably not the easiest place for people to setup listening stations
[20:09] <aadamson> spacex was scrubbed btw, helium leak
[20:09] <LeoBodnar> aadamson try conductive epoxy, it will work but it's expensive
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[20:10] <aadamson> thank LeoBodnar, I'll have to find some...
[20:10] <mattbrejza> we could always drop solar powered iridium + 70cm recievers into the middle east desert
[20:11] <fsphil> be covered in dust pretty quickly
[20:11] <LeoBodnar> i am using this http://www.newark.com/itw-chemtronics/cw2400/adhesive-epoxy-2-part-syringe/dp/00Z1602?ost=CW2400
[20:11] <mattbrejza> are there any rocky parts?
[20:11] <daveake> Well, I'm off to Saudi on Sunday so if anyone fancies sending a pico that way ...
[20:12] <fsphil> higher up the better I guess, for both radio range and less dust
[20:12] <fsphil> any mountains down that way?
[20:12] <LeoBodnar> are you taking the receiver Dave?
[20:12] <daveake> erm, sand
[20:12] <daveake> can do no problem :)
[20:12] <mattbrejza> able to setup a websdr while youre out? :P
[20:12] <daveake> ha :)
[20:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: to fancy for me, im relatively old ;-)
[20:13] <Reb-SM3ULC> Any tips on aprs-tutorial?
[20:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: dont trust the protocol specs :-)
[20:14] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: :(
[20:14] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: i meant.. :) i've seen a lot of comments
[20:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: it needs to be rewritten. From scratch.
[20:17] <LeoBodnar> http://www.ea5hnu.com/equipos_antenas/ says he uses Diamond X-50 with Icom 3200 and his elevation is ~100m asl from the Google map. How the heck is he getting 500+km APRS traffic?
[20:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: there is QAPRS library (afaik for arduino) http://forum.aprs.pl/index.php?topic=2163.0
[20:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: how muc power do You using for APRS ?
[20:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> much
[20:18] <LeoBodnar> 15mW
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[20:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> and what is Your antenna? Do you have separate antennas/matching for 2m/70 cm or some kind of trap antenna ?
[20:20] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: thanks
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> just 2m vertical dipole for both
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> it's a bit of nonsense that it works so well
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[20:23] <LeoBodnar> output/matching stage has been designed for 1/4 wave 434MHz GP
[20:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> and no switching between class-e oscillator tanks ?
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> with 90 degrees radials
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> no
[20:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> im thinking about pin-diode switch
[20:24] <LeoBodnar> i did not want to improve it since it works
[20:24] <LeoBodnar> but 434MHz performance is sub-optimal
[20:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> i see
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> i finally got a SA so now can play :D
[20:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> SA?
[20:25] <nats`> SP9UOB-Tom for those frequency a RF switch would be better
[20:25] <nats`> pin diode under GHz are not so good
[20:26] <mattbrejza> ive seen uhf radios that heavily use diode switches
[20:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> nats`: they are working even above 20 GHz
[20:26] <nats`> yep but under GHz ?
[20:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> nats`: no problem at all "off" capacity is about 0.5 pf
[20:27] <SP9UOB-Tom> i have hundreds of these in my HF radio :-)
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[20:27] <mattbrejza> the icom7000 uses them in its 144/434 recieve path all over the place
[20:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> mattbrejza: also in HF part
[20:28] <SP9UOB-Tom> path
[20:28] <mattbrejza> i have the vhf/uhf page open :P
[20:28] <nats`> I'm surprised but ok I was advised to prefer RF switch for sub ghz band
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[20:28] <LeoBodnar> spectrum analyser
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[20:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: well congratulations :-)
[20:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> i have no place in my shack for more equipment, but my house is allmost ready :-)
[20:30] <mattbrejza> do you have a power meter too?
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> for these power levels SA would do
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> as it's narrowband stuf
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> f
[20:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> you can also feen SA trough attenuator
[20:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> feed
[20:32] <mattbrejza> depends how crap the SA is, for example network analysers allow you to connect them to power meters to calibrate them
[20:33] <mattbrejza> ive heard SA's are good for a couple of dB
[20:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> Reb-SM3ULC: there is newer version: https://bitbucket.org/Qyon/arduinoqaprs/downloads
[20:33] <mattbrejza> (im sure you can connect a SA to a power meter, just never done it)
[20:33] <sp2ipt> SP9UOB-Tom: PIN diode switch at 20GHz+? that's not that easy ;)
[20:34] <sp2ipt> SP9UOB-Tom: maybe solid state rf switch rather than PIN? they consume less power - diode needs a bit of current to have low resistance
[20:35] <nats`> I agree with that sp2ipt
[20:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> sp2ipt: http://www.gtmicrowave.com/pin_diode_switches_sp6t.php there are 18 GHz
[20:35] <nats`> basically it should be easier to switch tens GHz with pin diode than MHz
[20:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://www.gtmicrowave.com/pin_diode_switches.php and product matrix
[20:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> > 18 GHz - K
[20:35] <nats`> you'll need more current for low frequency
[20:36] <nats`> for 18GHz it's more the PCB the problem :D
[20:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> just first hit from google search
[20:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> nats`: i saw 78 GHz design :-)
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> i have CDMA power measurement suite in the device with high accuracy upgrade, i can use that for channel power measueremnts
[20:37] <nats`> SP9UOB-Tom inside of an agilent or R&S equipment ?
[20:37] <sp2ipt> SP9UOB-Tom: loot at insertion losses :)
[20:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> PTFE gold plated pcb if i recall
[20:37] <nats`> I saw the front end of high end rohdes and schwarz
[20:37] <nats`> :)
[20:37] <nats`> 70GHz it's beautful
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[20:40] <sp2ipt> SP9UOB-Tom: http://www.tvsat.com.pl/pdf/A/as158-59_ai.pdf first hit from the well-known seller :)
[20:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> Supply Voltage +12 V
[20:42] <sp2ipt> SP9UOB-Tom: http://www.tvsat.com.pl/pdf/A/asc02r212_ai.pdf :P
[20:42] <sp2ipt> lower compression point but much better isolation
[20:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> worth considering
[20:44] <Laurenceb> i see ea5dom on the map
[20:45] <sp2ipt> SP9UOB-Tom: http://www.tvsat.com.pl/pdf/H/hmc190_hitt.pdf ahother interesting
[20:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: nice path, You have hit Azores
[20:47] <nats`> sp2ipt why not taking the RF switch in the ref design of the SI446X ?
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> isolation ~20dB hmmm
[20:48] <sp2ipt> nats`: taht's another possibility - probably the best one :)
[20:48] <nats`> there should be contact card for balloon like in HAM :)
[20:48] <nats`> sp2ipt I tested it at work
[20:48] <nats`> pretty good one
[20:48] <nats`> at least sor the power involved
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> i guess i need to print some QSL cards
[20:49] <Upu> hehe
[20:49] <Upu> it will get expensive for you :)
[20:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: Do you like my QSL card ;-) ?
[20:50] Action: sp2ipt thinks that may be funny - once a while magic frame with a code - whoever decodes the code gets a QSL ;)
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> yes, it's great! thanks so much :D
[20:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: in Poland about 30 GBP/1000cards
[20:50] <Upu> I was on about the postage Tom :)
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> we need to talk on air
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> that's my challenge
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> to actually talk to somebody on air
[20:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: 14 MHz now :)
[20:51] <Upu> lol
[20:51] <Upu> I was going to talk to daveake
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> lol i don't have equipment
[20:51] <sp2ipt> 30 GBP /1k full color, if u get one color, one side price drops to somewhere abt. 10 GBP :)
[20:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> or... skype via WiFi ;-)
[20:51] <Upu> but then dx decided to loose my UV-5R's
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> hey we can haz a net!
[20:52] <gonzo__> hf?! wash your mouth out!
[20:52] <sp2ipt> Tom's just lost one 4 at the end :)
[20:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> i have QSOs with UK on allmost all HF bands
[20:53] <Upu> I did some QSL cards for an ava launch once
[20:54] <aadamson> upu, ping pm
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[20:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> sp2ipt: ;-)
[20:55] <gonzo__> realised, I've had my class A licence for almost a 1/4 century, and had 2 HF qso's
[20:55] <gonzo__> (one was with fsphil, on data)
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[20:56] <mfa298> gonzo__: I think that's 2 more HF QSO's I've had on my callsign (although that's only a B so not had as long to use HF)
[20:56] <mfa298> although I've had a few QSO's on other (club/special event) callsigns.
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[20:57] <LazyLeopard> gonzo__: Passed the Morse test and then never used it?
[20:58] <gonzo__> Our club (FRARS) do VHF NFD every year. I occasioally get dragged ointo the radio when they are all off to the pub for food. Buit otherwise, for me, radio is about the eqiopment
[20:58] <gonzo__> LazyLeopard, yep, that's about it
[20:58] <sp2ipt> gonzo__: which bands are you qrv?
[20:58] <gonzo__> it was just a challenge to get it
[20:58] <sp2ipt> I'm thinking of finally getting into MS tests on 70cm :)
[20:59] <gonzo__> I have HF 4/2/70 on tap. And I'm down to just 23cm on the microwave side, but all in bits awayiing inspiriation
[21:00] <gonzo__> sp2ipt, where are you located?
[21:01] <gonzo__> if you are UK/west eu, have you listened to the graves french radar just below 2mtrs?
[21:01] <gonzo__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graves_%28system%29
[21:02] <sp2ipt> gonzo__: jo94gi
[21:02] <sp2ipt> gonzo__: I've done UK on SSB/MS on 2m
[21:03] <fsphil> gonzo__: I think I've only had 4 more qso's than you
[21:03] <gonzo__> the graves radar is quite high power but close enough to 2mtrs that the antennas are useable
[21:03] <sp2ipt> gonzo__: now I'm preparing 23,13,9cm setup for the rooftop but don't have time to make the dish feed
[21:03] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, Ping, might you have a few to look at my solar schematic, I don't think it's working right....
[21:04] <gonzo__> I had kit in build for all bands 23-3cm, but really could not be bothered finishing them. Have kept 23cm. Just need to get some apmlifires going
[21:04] Action: arko looks away
[21:05] <gonzo__> and finish the control/feedback for the eme dish
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> sure aadamson
[21:06] <aadamson> on you on a real irc client, can I PM you there?
[21:08] <aadamson> I hate to drag this conversation out on the main channel...
[21:08] <aadamson> but can if you'd like
[21:08] <sp2ipt> gonzo__: I keep my fingers crossed for you. I can't have EME setup now because the antennas are on top of a huge block of flats and have to survive every wind
[21:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> time to bed. Night all
[21:10] <sp2ipt> SP9UOB-Tom: bye
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[21:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> two more packets from B45 about 10 min ago..
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[21:22] <sp2ipt> night all
[21:23] <Upu> night
[21:24] Nick change: MichaelC3 -> MichaelC
[21:25] <Reb-SM3ULC> night
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[21:27] <Laurenceb> i wonder if there is some ducting
[21:27] <Laurenceb> or maybe ionospheric on 2m ?
[21:28] <Laurenceb> i guess thats feasible
[21:31] <DL7AD> http://www.dxinfocentre.com/tropo_eur.html
[21:34] <Laurenceb> i dunno how to read that lol
[21:34] <DL7AD> red => strong duction
[21:34] <DL7AD> redder => stronger duction
[21:34] <Laurenceb> ok
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[21:34] <DL7AD> the reddest => the strongest duction
[21:34] <DL7AD> redderthereddest => very strong :D
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[21:35] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander
[21:36] <fsphil> looks like good conditions overnight here
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi
[21:37] <DL7AD> hi lunar
[21:37] <DL7AD> doppelt hält besser :D
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[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> ja
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[21:51] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/175247_trj001.gif
[21:51] <Laurenceb> following B-43 now
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[21:55] <DL7AD> B-43?
[21:56] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: B-43 has been crashed
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[21:57] <Laurenceb> erm B-44
[22:01] <Maxell> B-45 \o/
[22:05] <mattbrejza> just refer to them relative to the latest launch
[22:07] <Laurenceb> going to have to move to 16bit numbering at this rate
[22:07] <Laurenceb> it should pick up APRS from Malta in the morning
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[22:08] <cm13g09> Laurenceb: All these balloons
[22:08] <cm13g09> it creates chaos
[22:08] <cm13g09> and throws everything up in the air!
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[22:17] <malclocke> is 45 really the 45th one?!? how much do they cost?
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[22:19] <malclocke> still dreaming of #1. sitting my ham license on thursday :/
[22:19] <Laurenceb> ask Leo :P
[22:19] <Laurenceb> probably ~£30
[22:19] <malclocke> wow
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[22:21] <malclocke> would folks advise a minimal launch for a first attempt? e.g. just telemetry, no cameras etc.
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[22:28] <eroomde> malclocke: worth doing a camera
[22:29] <eroomde> unless minimal is minimal weight
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[22:29] <eroomde> but a camera is hardly any extra complexity and getting pics back from your flight is very exciting
[22:29] <eroomde> (... the first twenty times)
[22:29] <zyp> what about minimal cost/risk?
[22:29] <malclocke> yeh, that's my main worry
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[22:30] <malclocke> I'd like the telemetry to be proven before I attach too many $$ to it.
[22:30] <malclocke> dunno ...
[22:31] <eroomde> $$30 for a 2nd hand canon powershot from ebay
[22:33] <malclocke> eroomde, yeh, I guess that's probably the best plan
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[22:33] <malclocke> I'm still trying to ascertain what some of the legalities here in NZ
[22:34] <eroomde> nz seems quite permissive
[22:34] <malclocke> yeh, afaict we can do APRS, and there doesn't seem to be an official class for < 4kg
[22:35] <malclocke> all the rules seem to apply to > 4kg, unless I'm reading it wrong
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[22:36] <myself> That might be the case.
[22:36] <mattbrejza> wasnt that mailing list discussion from someone in NZ?
[22:36] <mattbrejza> the one about the predictor
[22:37] <myself> Call your local weather bureau, they launch sondes all the time and probably know or could point you to someone who does.
[22:38] <mattbrejza> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/GeHVv2trHfs
[22:40] <malclocke> mattbrejza, thanks
[22:40] Action: malclocke signs up to the mailing list
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> malclocke: yes about £20-30 if you include balloon, gas, electronics
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[22:47] <MatB> LeoBodnar: I noticed (well lack of noticed so might have just missed it) you having a NOTAM around these parts for your launch the other night, whereas there were a couple of bigguns obvious around Cambridge on Saturday. Is your balloon small enough not to need one?
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[22:49] <LeoBodnar> it's a 90 cm balloon MatB
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> and it does not expand
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> in fact it shrinks to ~60cm diameter when pressurised
[22:50] <LeoBodnar> so it is exempt from requireing a NOTAM
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> 2m diameter is actually quite large - for low altitude at least
[22:50] <SpeedEvil> That's nearly 4 kilos of lift.
[22:50] <MatB> Cool. I thought I'd read there was an exemption below a certain size. I might yet have a go at launching something then.
[22:50] Action: MatB wonders how much helium he's got left in the garage...
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> That is 2m at any time during flight
[22:51] <LeoBodnar> MatB basically all your stuff has to fit inside 2m sphere during any stage of the flight
[22:52] <MatB> aha
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[22:52] <MatB> short tail hanging from it then too
[22:52] <LeoBodnar> all of it
[22:53] <MatB> Where do you get your gas from at a sensible price? Or do you just send enough up that it makes sense to buy in bulk!?
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[23:01] <mattbrejza> a sensible price for 9m3 is about £150 atm if youre lucky
[23:01] <mattbrejza> which is still lots
[23:02] <mattbrejza> so dunno what you mean by sensible
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[23:03] <MatB> well it seemed like the gas was going to cost more than £30 for a launch when i looked before, but I've not figured out how much is used for a smaller balloon size
[23:03] <MatB> seemed like small canisters were expensive per m3 but larger cylinders had a rental attached
[23:04] <Laurenceb> thats more than enough for all Leos balloons i think?
[23:05] <MatB> am now wondering how much i wasted puncturing a balloon while rigging a point to point link up a couple of years ago. that must have been 1m diameter. twice, because we emptied the second one out once we'd done :(
[23:09] <LeoBodnar> my balloons need 0.055m3 :D
[23:09] <LeoBodnar> each
[23:09] <LeoBodnar> so x45 = 2.5m3
[23:14] <MatB> So five from a party balloon disposable container. Not bad, and better from something cheaper/bulkier than that.
[23:20] <SpeedEvil> Well.
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> I note again that you (likely) have a readily available source of 50p/m^3 density 0,6kg/m^3 lift gas.
[23:21] <SpeedEvil> Natural gas.
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[23:50] <mariaz> hello, anyone knows how can I contract the service of send balloon to the near speace:
[23:52] <natrium42> wat
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[00:00] --- Tue Apr 15 2014