highaltitude.log.20140412

[00:03] <aadamson> upu, know you are sleeping, but follow up... it was the chip, somehow I damaged it it appears... different one seems to be working.. hope I don't need anymore, I'm out :)...
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[00:23] <heathkid> anyone know when the Dayton Hamvention balloon launch will be?
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[06:04] <disruptivetech> The Hamvention twitter account says "#Hamvention Balloon launch tentatively scheduled for 12:30 p.m. Saturday." And there is a Balloon Forum scheduled on Friday at 12:15 in Room 2
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[06:46] <Upu> B-45 updated via APRS
[06:46] <Upu> Close to being in range of the spanish stations
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[08:02] <ibanezmatt13> morning
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[08:33] <ibanezmatt13> How worthwhile would it be sending a float up from Iceland?
[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> I have plans :P
[08:38] <db_g6gzh> there was somebody from Iceland in here the other day
[08:38] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool
[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> My Dad might be heading over there with work. So if I could get over there too, might be worth a shot, slight change in route
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[08:40] <db_g6gzh> He posted a link to pictures of recovering a payload from out in the wilds, I'll see if I can find it from the logs
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13> It's a great place, plenty high up volcanoes to track from too :P
[08:42] <db_g6gzh> #highaltitude.2014-04-05.log:23:10 < ulfr> http://skywardsphere.weebly.com/main-flight-recovery-images.html
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> cheers
[08:42] <db_g6gzh> ibanezmatt13: ^^ scroll down a bit
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> that's what you call a chase
[08:45] <db_g6gzh> Iceland is awesome, I went aurora spotting there about 15 years ago
[08:45] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, we managed to see it once, but it was when it was at its weakest unfortunately
[08:46] <db_g6gzh> Oh, it was 2001 so not quite that long ago
[08:46] <db_g6gzh> http://anotherurl.com/travel/iceland/iceland4.htm
[08:46] <db_g6gzh> a friend's write-up ^^
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> There was a comedy series on BBC 4 set entirely in an Icelandic petrol station somewhere on the N1, called "The Night Shift," dunno if you've seen that
[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> yea pretty amazing
[08:48] <db_g6gzh> No, not seen that show
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> it was good
[08:50] <db_g6gzh> I was amazed that even back then there was a web site which could tell you how many vehicles had passed various places so you could assess road conditions
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> oh wow. We never though about that when we went exploring - til we got lost on a road near a big Volcano, middle of nowehere.
[08:51] <g0pai_ian> I think that taking your shirt off in conditions like that is best recommended for someone else :) Looks like a unique experience not to be missed.
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> It's a common Icelandic thing to do, to go in a nice warm geothermal natural pool, then submerge into a bath full of ice water. No thank you
[08:53] <db_g6gzh> http://www.vegagerdin.is/ferdaupplysingar/faerd-og-vedur/faerd-um-allt-land/island1.html
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> wow that is a nice site, graphs and everything. Will take note of that for next time thanks :)
[08:55] <LeoBodnar> lol white colour is "Krap"
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[08:55] <db_g6gzh> that page appears to be weather and incidents
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> I'd better go do something productive, catch you soon :)
[08:56] <db_g6gzh> ah clicking English at the top helps with navigation, I was struggling with Icelandic
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[08:58] <Upu> EA1EXV
[08:58] <Upu> is recieving B-45
[08:58] <db_g6gzh> LeoBodnar: http://paste.debian.net/93317/
[08:58] <db_g6gzh> that's all I heard this time and no digis near here heard anything
[09:01] <LeoBodnar> cheers, archived
[09:01] <g0pai_ian> Was the B45 ascent this morning due to the mountains or just daybreak temperatures?
[09:02] <LeoBodnar> daytime heating
[09:02] <db_g6gzh> was it likely to be weaker or just that it was further away this time ?
[09:02] <g0pai_ian> And are the camels out looking for the B-44 black box yet?
[09:02] <LeoBodnar> meerkats are on the lookout
[09:03] <LeoBodnar> how ofthen does this get updated? http://www.daniels270.eclipse.co.uk/
[09:03] <g0pai_ian> Shame about the lack of terminal coverage for these long distance flights. They just move off into the twighlight zone!
[09:05] <db_g6gzh> I'd guess it's a daily update as it says 'Yesterday'
[09:07] <db_g6gzh> Oh, but the date at the bottom is back in March, so not really yeeterday
[09:14] <g0pai_ian> http://www.leadsmexico.com/htm-mexico-17-1910864.htm with compass - way to go ;) Lol
[09:15] <g0pai_ian> Complete with speedy record recording button!
[09:18] <db_g6gzh> Mexican altitude is different isn't it ?
[09:20] <Upu> yes its about 1.8 times normally accepted units
[09:25] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
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[09:32] <fsphil> the mexican kilometre
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> who said "m" stood for metre?
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[09:37] <cm13g09> LeoBodnar: is your balloon attempting time travel?
[09:37] <cm13g09> last report is 30 mins in the future!
[09:38] <gonzo__> no one launching today then?
[09:38] <gonzo__> mexican minutes??
[09:38] <LeoBodnar> it's APRS gateway glitch cm13g09
[09:38] <cm13g09> LeoBodnar: thought it might be
[09:38] <cm13g09> looks quite impressive though :)
[09:38] <LeoBodnar> it does not have a concept of a "day"
[09:40] <cm13g09> question is, how far will LeoBodnar's B series travel
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[09:48] <Herman-PB0AHX> GM all
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[09:49] <Herman-PB0AHX> wat is frequentie of sp9uob??
[09:50] <LeoBodnar> Balloon: SEBA-7 QRG: 437,600 MHz RTTY: 7N1 300 will shift 600Hz POWER: 20 mW out
[09:52] <Herman-PB0AHX> mni tnx Leo
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> also SP3OSJ is on 437.700MHz
[09:56] <Herman-PB0AHX> Leo ur ballon on holliday in portugal ?
[09:56] <LeoBodnar> yeah siesta time
[09:56] <Herman-PB0AHX> no port is better
[10:00] <LeoBodnar> good suggestion Herman
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[10:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> afternoon All :\
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[10:07] <LeoBodnar> hello Tom
[10:07] <LeoBodnar> did you just launch a rocket?
[10:08] <LeoBodnar> pico rocket XD
[10:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: no, 100g hwoyee :-)
[10:09] <LeoBodnar> ah, cool
[10:09] <LeoBodnar> floater or updown?
[10:09] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: hope to float :-)
[10:10] <LeoBodnar> nice
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[10:11] <Herman-PB0AHX> Hi Tom i hope he is comming to me hihihi lol
[10:12] <LeoBodnar> Tom, do you know if timestamps work in APRS?
[10:12] <LeoBodnar> i think aprs.fi ignores them
[10:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: they should work, but it depends on implementation on the data presentation side
[10:13] <LeoBodnar> so sending log data via APRS would screw it all up
[10:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> it was working long time ago at db0anf
[10:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: talk to aprs.fi authors
[10:13] <LeoBodnar> aprs.fi said somewhere that he takes RX time as datapoint reference
[10:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> well, that is protocol violation
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[10:15] <LeoBodnar> i know
[10:16] <LeoBodnar> It's for your own good ®
[10:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> ;-)
[10:17] <LeoBodnar> http://blog.aprs.fi/2008/03/on-duplicate-and-delayed-packets.html
[10:17] <LeoBodnar> "It's a bit hard to tell whether a timestamp is usable or not, so aprs.fi is not currently using them for anything. It's simply using the time the APRS packet was received from the APRS-IS."
[10:18] <LeoBodnar> ...because it is a bit hard
[10:18] <LeoBodnar> == for technical reasons
[10:18] <SP9UOB-Tom> maybe its time to start developing own platform
[10:19] <LeoBodnar> such a shame
[10:19] <LeoBodnar> let's take a [crap] standard and make it better by ignoring half of it
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[10:21] <LeoBodnar> Portugal, yay
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[10:26] <craag> Hey you guys seen this? http://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/22svnh/anyone_in_oxfordshire_uk_physsoc_nottingham_need/
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[10:32] <craag> From the fb photos it looks like it was a ukhas-style tracker, with ntx2 and pico gps breakout, but they didn't announce it and had a tracker failure in flight.
[10:34] <Laurenceb> doh
[10:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> What a waste of effort :-( Is it just that people don't research or is it that they want to do it by themselves ?
[10:39] <craag> It looks like they did their research - judging by the homebrew yagis, use of the cusf predictor, and the ntx2+hab supplies gps(I think).
[10:40] <craag> So yes, most likely just wanting to do it by themselves - they're a university group, they don't need a group of amateurs to help them out!
[10:40] <craag> Or at least that *was* their thinking.
[10:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> agreed
[10:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its like that Thomas lad from the Kent Uni. no tracking, no lock, and lost possibly in a tree
[10:42] <adamgreig> has anyone used an rtl-sdr on os x before?
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> I think so given the discussions on th Yahoo forums
[10:42] <adamgreig> I meant more in here, I imagine it is doable
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[10:45] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE: life priorities will be different when you get young XD https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/10007463_654179147964294_2850690431239381282_n.jpg
[10:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> B-45 Colud be back in range of UK Monday Lunchtime http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub/arlTraj.swf?client=gme-noaa&channel=OAR.ARL.HQ.HYSPLIT&dir=/hypubout/HYSPLITtraj_133089&data=/hysplit_metadata&ext=html
[10:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> my new toy: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=870813422944421&set=pcb.870813716277725&type=1&theater
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> wind planning department had good Friday night out it seems
[10:51] <LeoBodnar> is this your new digi?
[10:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: no, RTL-SDR with fibre-optics conecction
[10:54] <Laurenceb> nice
[10:54] <Laurenceb> this could break the B-11/12 records
[10:55] <Upu> do you want APRS feed turning back on ?
[11:00] <LeoBodnar> http://i.imgur.com/oZOBijs.jpg
[11:01] <LeoBodnar> maybe let EA1EXV to have sum more fun?
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> ah, he lost it
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> yes please Upu
[11:02] <Upu> done
[11:03] <LeoBodnar> Upu: http://i.imgur.com/faHrFbG.jpg
[11:03] <Upu> lol
[11:03] <Laurenceb> Leo has discovered memes
[11:03] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/XVO46.gif
[11:03] <Laurenceb> post the first one on that facebook page
[11:06] <LeoBodnar> just booored
[11:08] <mfa298> cm13g09: delayed pong (I was getting the M25 experience in soton)
[11:09] <cm13g09> mfa298: ah lol
[11:09] <Willdude123> mfa298: what's the m25 experience?
[11:10] <Willdude123> Oh is that that orbital motorway?
[11:10] <mfa298> why would you put the royal mail delivery office half way along a road known for mostly being a traffic jam
[11:11] <Willdude123> Cost?
[11:11] <Willdude123> Oh and BTW guys, I finished one half of this problem set on my own
[11:11] <Willdude123> Gdb is my friend
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB-Tom: is it AA powered?
[11:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: yes
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> do you have any pictures?
[11:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> wel.. no :-)
[11:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> just tracker, styrofoam, and rope
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[11:30] <LeoBodnar> ok
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[11:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> floating point geofence is working :-)
[11:42] <LeoBodnar> next time make it complex
[11:43] <LeoBodnar> XD
[11:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> LOL 50.15-j18.35
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[11:49] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, did you see my comments about the Si api document that you guys gave me yesterday? It's a quite old compared to what the latest is on the si web site v1.03 to v1.12 and 12 months in age (meaning the latest doesn't use that forumla for the ADC)
[11:50] <aadamson> so which to use?
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> well it's up to you
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> i use a year old silicon
[11:51] <aadamson> hehe and you use 4060's, I'm using 446x's
[11:52] <aadamson> any idea what your 100% duty cycle power consumptions is? Upu said his was about 54ma
[11:53] <DL7AD_mobile> 54? Seems to be too much for a floater
[11:54] <LeoBodnar> not sure from memory ~30mA
[11:54] <LeoBodnar> i am confused between stepup, stepdown and direct current
[11:54] <LeoBodnar> *my memory is confused
[11:55] <aadamson> yeah about that's what I would have expected. and yes it does get confusing.
[11:55] <LeoBodnar> i use 4460 too when i am bored
[11:55] <LeoBodnar> but they are x4 the cost
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[11:55] <aadamson> the difference being the 40's vs the 44's 40's - tx only 44's tx/rx?
[11:55] <LeoBodnar> yes
[11:56] <LeoBodnar> and bugs
[11:56] <aadamson> k, thanks... :)
[11:56] <DL7AD_mobile> Bugs?
[11:56] <LeoBodnar> you can call them known unknowns
[11:57] <DL7AD_mobile> Ah okay. So errors happening out of the unknown sometimes
[11:59] <aadamson> and for no apparent reason :)
[11:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> well, even in 2 byte code is at least one bug ;-)
[12:00] <aadamson> it wouldn't be *binary* if there was not :) hmm... wonder if you can write that in code
[12:02] <cm13g09> craag: you around?
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[12:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyway, those are no bugs, those are "undocumented features"
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[12:11] <cm13g09> SP9UOB-Tom: We keep saying that about our PBX at work :P
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[12:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> cm13g09: im using Asterisk as a PBX
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[12:17] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, did you do much testing around using 3v3 as the main VCC from the buck/boost controllers vs. the 1.8 that you are using did the current requirements change that dramatically or the duration go down as a result? I've got to figure out an issue with my design.
[12:18] <aadamson> Maybe you have some ideas?
[12:18] <aadamson> The cdcel913 works, but when the pll is on, it's a power pig. 20ma just for that
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> yes i know
[12:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> aadamson: try si570 ;-)
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> still better than most AD PLLs
[12:19] <aadamson> if I stay at 1.8-2.0v for vcc, I can't find a vcxo that works at 1.8v only tcxo's
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> or Silabs indeed
[12:19] <aadamson> 570 is *much* worse if I remember right :)
[12:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> aadamson: 1bout 150mA
[12:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> about
[12:20] <aadamson> sheesh
[12:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> but is not so stupid for frequency setting
[12:20] <LeoBodnar> all the sweetest AD clocks are 1W+
[12:22] <aadamson> you can find clipped sins all day long, but nothing in the lv or hcmos area...
[12:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> setting more than 2 frequencies (with reasonable distance) for cdce913 is allmost impossible
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[12:23] <aadamson> I only use the cdcel to get the oscillator frequency right to produce the right step for the si chip
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[12:24] <craag> cm13g09: pong
[12:24] <aadamson> right now when I want to run 15.625 step tones, I can just use a 32.768mhz clock and then set the channel offset correct
[12:24] <DL7AD_mobile> aadamson there are no vcxos for 1v8 suitable for your frequency. Figured oyt before
[12:24] <aadamson> that's right on for a 15.625 step
[12:25] <aadamson> DL7AD_mobile, yep, that's the problem
[12:25] <LeoBodnar> clipped sins are there for the reason
[12:25] <aadamson> Also if you don't run a TCXO on the cdcel, it's worse than the hx2 for drift :)
[12:26] <DL7AD_mobile> have a look for txc 7L
[12:26] <LeoBodnar> clipped sinewave is the lowest self-heating output driver technology
[12:27] <aadamson> Now I think I can do MFSK (SSB) without using the si's frequency channels... I can use the DAC and generate different voltages to control a VCXO, but I also can't find a VC/TXCO with enough pull.... so this isn't a simple solution is appears :
[12:27] <LeoBodnar> this is crucial for maintaining the specification
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[12:28] <aadamson> I know there are *fan* chips that will take a clipped sine and fix it, but I've not looked much there yet
[12:29] <LeoBodnar> what's wrong with clipped sinewave?
[12:31] <aadamson> to drive the Si? nothing, the problem is I can't find a VC/TCXO with enough pull, clipped sine on the cdcel is a problem according to TI, and then there is the current requirements
[12:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> Hwoyee 100 just passed 25 km
[12:32] <aadamson> I'm down to 32ma of current need before any power management (other than putting the gps in power save mode)... so I know the 20's are reachable if I deep six the cdcel
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[12:32] <aadamson> SP9UOB-Tom, whats float predicted at?
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[12:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> was predicted to 23 km :-)
[12:33] <LeoBodnar> after seeing you placing 913 in the design i thought power consumption was not a design feature
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> it's impossible to optimise the design that has not been built around low power consumption from the beginning
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> *difficult
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> you can make 913 consume below 18mA
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> *can't
[12:36] <LeoBodnar> while it's outputting a clock on at least one output
[12:37] <LeoBodnar> didn't you say it was for shiggles? XD
[12:38] <aadamson> yeah, it was for learning... and I learned. it's fine when the pll is off (running just on the external clock), but turn that sucker on, even if only using one output and poof there goes the neighborhood
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> lol you get shiggles at least :D
[12:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> and 26 km :-)
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[12:39] <aadamson> and even to keep it and give up the power, it would require a 1.8v tcxo which means clipped sine and then I'd have to add a fan out chip.
[12:39] <LeoBodnar> also make sure you don't use 913 immediately after waking it up. it produces horrible chirp while PLL is locking on.
[12:39] <LeoBodnar> i think about 50ms is safe
[12:39] <aadamson> or some other form of buffer
[12:40] <aadamson> yeah I'm waiting now as it is
[12:40] <aadamson> I'm also running it a tiny bit out of spec
[12:40] <aadamson> it's says 1.7 - 1.8 - 1.9 and it's being fed 2.0 :)
[12:40] <aadamson> max is 2.5
[12:40] <LeoBodnar> for things like CW etc it's better to disable output buffers than turn PLL off
[12:41] <aadamson> for aprs I can do that too as I just need a 27mhz clock for the si
[12:41] <LeoBodnar> it's very robust
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[12:41] <aadamson> so pwm generated afsk via vcxo works by turning off the pll
[12:41] <LeoBodnar> it survived worse than 2.5v
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[12:42] <LeoBodnar> you can do APRS directly on 913 lol
[12:42] <aadamson> yeah if you wanted to deal with *slow* i2c :)
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> it's fast enough for APRS
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> i had a working prototype somewhere
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[12:42] <LeoBodnar> until i got distracted by something else
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[12:49] <aadamson> cool, latest predictions for B-45 look to keep is just over France/Spain for a while.
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[13:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> 100g Hwoyee did 29 km :-)
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[13:22] <SpeedEvil> What payload?
[13:26] <SP9UOB-Tom> SpeedEvil: 30 grams in total
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> :)
[13:27] <craag> Still going up :)
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[13:30] <craag> SP9UOB-Tom: Aiming for float?
[13:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> craag: yes, but i can allmost hear hera balloon crackles ;-)
[13:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> here
[13:32] <craag> You're getting close, moment of truth right now :)
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[13:44] <aadamson> ugg... almost bit me, this ublox protocol is little endian :)... how to really screw with my head and think byte swapped :)
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[13:53] <DJ3AK> sp9uob green decode 575km
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[13:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> DJ3AK: that is a record at 300bd ;-)
[13:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> DJ3AK: nope. 677km is a record :-)
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[13:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> burst
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> awww
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[14:18] <mikestir> aadamson: are you not just mapping the packets straight onto structs?
[14:19] <aadamson> mike, just getting started with the ublox protocol, most likely that's what I'll do
[14:19] <aadamson> was just looking through some of the sample code and realized I was struggling with mapping bits to values and bits and then realized it was byte swapped
[14:21] <mikestir> yeah the protocol's clearly been designed with little endian systems in mind
[14:22] <aadamson> yeah, it was fun looking at a 4 byte bit field in little endian :)
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[14:46] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[14:52] <Laurenceb> its turning
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[15:06] <Upu> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/136269_trj001.gif
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[15:45] <Maxell> Why is B-45 sending out bursts of two APRS packets?
[15:45] <Maxell> Is the time between the packets less, and a second one to increase chance it gets picked up?
[15:46] <Maxell> Or different freqency?
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[15:52] <DL7AD> the balloon is unpredictable. the actual trajectory is different from the forecast: www.dl7ad.de/hab_contacts/balloon2.php?filter=B-45
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[16:13] <DL7AD> ping LeoBodnar
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[16:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> SEBA-7 recovered by OK2BUH :-)
[16:54] <Lunar_Lander> YAY!
[16:54] <Lunar_Lander> well done
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[18:05] <Herman-PB0AHX> .
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[18:57] <DL7AD> evening
[18:57] <ibanezmatt13> abend
[19:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> guten abend :-)
[19:04] <DL7AD> nabend ibanezmatt13 cze[ SP9UOB-Tom
[19:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> Cze¶æ Sven :-)
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[19:40] <aadamson> Am I not doing something right? I have dl-fldigi running, pushing telemetry to the server, and yet the last update was over an hour ago?
[19:40] <aadamson> I get successful notes back from fldigi
[19:40] <aadamson> does it figure if you aren't moving it won't update?
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[19:45] <craag> aadamson: Anything useful here: http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/ ?
[19:46] <aadamson> well, it seems that fl-digi will crash and not push to the server even tho it's still running
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[19:46] <aadamson> you try to exit it and it says it trying to upload forever (screen won't close)
[19:46] <aadamson> this on windows 8.1
[19:46] <db_g6gzh> aadamson: if you're W7QO the logtail at http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/ last received you at 18:45Z
[19:46] <db_g6gzh> ah, until jist now
[19:47] <aadamson> I finally closed it, and made sure I was running the latest, and it's pushing again now
[19:47] <db_g6gzh> anyway, you can check the log at that URL
[19:47] <aadamson> yea I was watching that, it's when I decided to see why no updates
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[19:48] <db_g6gzh> OK, no idea why it stopped updating
[19:49] <Upu> hey aadamson working ?
[19:49] <aadamson> yeah me either, it's done this a few times in the last few days
[19:49] <aadamson> upu, yes, gps is working
[19:49] <aadamson> :)
[19:49] <Upu> excellent
[19:49] <Upu> replaced the module ?
[19:49] <aadamson> yeah and I don't have any more so hurry will ya :)
[19:49] <Upu> Monday :)
[19:50] <Upu> did you buy it from me in the first place ?
[19:50] <aadamson> had 9 sats last night on a test
[19:50] <aadamson> no
[19:50] <aadamson> a friend had one here locally
[19:50] <Upu> unlucky you I was going to replace it
[19:50] <Upu> :)
[19:50] <aadamson> a totally different project, I just got lucky
[19:50] <Upu> nps I'll let you know Monday morning
[19:50] <Upu> pm me your mail address
[19:50] <aadamson> k, no worry
[19:51] <aadamson> email in pm=
[19:51] <db_g6gzh> Upu: I should talk to you about getting an NTX2B-FA
[19:52] <Upu> you should
[19:52] <Upu> give me 1 min db_g6gzh
[19:52] <db_g6gzh> OK
[19:53] <Upu> PM
[19:55] <aadamson> yeah, looks like 4460's 4463's and 4060's are drop in replaceable one with the other
[19:56] <Upu> they are
[19:56] <aadamson> oh good
[19:56] <aadamson> and I can get 4060's too
[19:56] <aadamson> I'm running a 4463 at the moment at an 10db output the current is much higher than a 4060 or 4460 would be
[19:56] <aadamson> and I didn't even stuff the RX components
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[20:11] <mikestir> aadamson: did you use the class E or switched current match?
[20:12] <aadamson> class e
[20:13] <aadamson> I'm setup for an LFP of 195-200mhz at the moment however
[20:13] <aadamson> what would be very nice is to figure out the match such that you could use those LPF's from minicircuits
[20:14] <aadamson> I got 4 of the for free on samples the other day
[20:20] <mikestir> and you're getting the full expected power out at 1.8V? The datasheet/appnote are a bit non-commital about how low you can go while still getting 10dBm out
[20:21] <aadamson> Mike I don't believe I'll get 20db out of it at 2.0v... I've not tried.. .setting the power level to 16 has given my 10db (10mW) and I'm good with that for now.
[20:21] <mikestir> ah but you're using the 4463?
[20:21] <aadamson> at 2.0v I can't remember, but I think the max output is going to be around 13-15db is all
[20:21] <aadamson> yes
[20:22] <aadamson> I know I can reduce the power consumption by probably 50% by going to the 4460 or 4060 for example
[20:22] <aadamson> power consumption of the radio that is
[20:22] <mikestir> I'm just doing a design with the 4060. I was going to use the class E, but I'm going to design the board for a swap to the other method in case I can't get the power
[20:22] <mikestir> sounds like it will be ok though
[20:22] <aadamson> I thought the class e was the better of the 2?
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> class E is more efficient
[20:23] <mikestir> it's much more efficient, but the app note sort of implied you needed more voltage
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> current controled guarantees precise power
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> e.g. if you do comliance testing or have fancy pulse shaping
[20:23] <aadamson> http://www.minicircuits.com/MCLStore/ModelInfoDisplay?13973334626390.850727203577875 these would be awesome for 433mhz
[20:24] <Upu> link doesn't work
[20:24] <aadamson> http://www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/LFCN-490.pdf
[20:24] <aadamson> that will
[20:24] <aadamson> they just need a matching network worked out
[20:24] <Upu> I have an account with minicircuits
[20:25] <aadamson> so do I and you can get 4 of free on their samples program
[20:25] <aadamson> I did :)
[20:25] <aadamson> may be a US bennie
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[20:26] <aadamson> mike, I'll let you know, I've got a 4460 that I"m going to put on a second board just to test against
[20:26] <bertrik> wow, nice circuit in such a small package
[20:26] <Upu> will save soldering all those 0402's
[20:26] <aadamson> oh, and upu, yes, power save mode is awesome. Took what was 50mA and made it 15... :)
[20:27] <Upu> yes that sounds right
[20:27] <Upu> 20-22mA "native" for my board
[20:27] <aadamson> that's processor, adcs, etc and gps numbers
[20:27] <Upu> i.e driven directly from 1.8V
[20:27] <Upu> constant TX
[20:27] <aadamson> yeah, sounds about right
[20:27] <Willdude> Minor issue with the reflow oven. My dad said "I'm not getting an oven for £40 just to do melty stuff
[20:28] <mikestir> Upu: you don't have any trouble getting +10dBm in class E with a 4060 at 1.8V right?
[20:28] <Willdude> Well, you aren't getting an oven
[20:28] <Upu> I have no idea mikestir people report when I'm using a decent antenna the signal is great
[20:28] <aadamson> Willdude, go find a garage sale, selling them
[20:28] <Upu> so I assume its working
[20:28] <LeoBodnar> i have used SW to get 10dBm
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> on 1.8V
[20:30] <mikestir> well I'll keep the board generic just in case
[20:30] <mikestir> sounds ok though
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[20:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[20:44] <Willdude> Not quite sure what to do. He offered to put it in our grill but that's for food really
[20:45] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> it's 53 years of Vostok 1 and 33 years of STS-1 today
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[21:07] <SpeedEvil> Willdude: have you looked at local ebay? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toaster-Oven-/321376442825?pt=UK_HGKitchen_SmallApp_RL&hash=item4ad38759c9
[21:07] <SpeedEvil> I don't know where you are
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[21:42] <g0pai_ian> Willdude: I know the feeling, but you need to sit down and update your dad about why you want it and why solder fumes in the domestic grill along with the control issues etc. Ask him if he would spring £80 for a good soldering station and see what he says. Then figure what he spends £40 on and apply social engineering pressure (Blackmail).
[21:42] <Willdude> My iron is pretty awful
[21:43] <Willdude> It's going to be my money in the end, well, allowance money
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[21:44] <g0pai_ian> My dad many years ago poo pooed my getting a decent pair of pliers. He was actually right, but they lasted me many years until I lost them . . . probably nicked by my dad!
[21:45] <g0pai_ian> You need to start involving your dad in your hobby until his eyes glaze over then go for the kill and an advance!
[21:45] <Willdude> Heh
[21:45] <Willdude> I feel a bit bad dragging my granddad along to the ham radio club meetings
[21:45] <Willdude> Because he usually sleeps
[21:47] <g0pai_ian> You will be old enough to go on your own sooner or later. Use your grandad to sway your father on the oven, and if you can get a decent one for less, then it's a bonus; as long as it is suitable.
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[21:49] <g0pai_ian> Grand dads like to help promote learning of technical subjects in their grand children, because they have the time to know that it's important these days.
[21:50] <g0pai_ian> While you are making infernal machines to track balloons, you aren't hanging out on the corner with a bunch of dubious mates getting up to no good.
[21:51] <Willdude> No, I'm yelling "why does this not work?" into an irc channel full of dubious mates :)
[21:51] <Willdude> Granddad used to be in the electronics biz
[21:53] <g0pai_ian> Ah yes, but feel the calibre of these dubious mates . . . I think that your Grand dad is probably very pleased to nurture your interest. You can always have him speak with your dad, so if your dad isn't listening about the oven, make the case to Grand dad and have him bring the subject up on your behalf . . .
[21:54] <Willdude> My dad is usually OK with stuff like this - just might take a bit of convincing. anyway for now my main priority is the intermediate practical requirements
[21:54] <g0pai_ian> If you can't work with people, sometimes a circuitous route is in order if you are to get the job done. I guess that a lot of the chat here bounces off your nogging, but in a year's time you will be surprised by how much has stuck.
[21:54] <g0pai_ian> What project are you making for the Intermediate?
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[21:55] <gonzo_nb> I was recently driving locally in the eve and saw some kids loitering under a streetlamp at night. I thought that nothing changes. Then saw that they were not throwing stones ar bus shelters or tieing bangers to cats tails. they were wearing their thumbs out on their phones, faces liut up vlue
[21:55] <gonzo_nb> lit
[21:55] <gonzo_nb> lit up blue
[21:55] <gonzo_nb> so things do change.....
[21:55] <Willdude> I'm doing a err
[21:55] <g0pai_ian> I had a guy who thought a gas operated soldering iron was good. I've never seen a piece of Veroboard more scorched in my life.
[21:55] <Willdude> ZN414Z rx
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> ohhh
[21:56] <g0pai_ian> I see. I thought that they had stopped making them
[21:56] <g0pai_ian> ZN414 that is. Was it a Ferranti part originally, from the late 70 early 80s
[21:57] <g0pai_ian> Ary that was a question.
[21:57] <g0pai_ian> bleep, bleep finger failure . . . Sorry that was a question. So much for being a wizard at the green keys
[21:58] <g0pai_ian> Teleprinters had green keys . . . :)
[21:59] <Willdude123> Yes, it was
[21:59] <g0pai_ian> Last time I saw something with a blue face it was either in the Eagle comic and one of the Mekon's or Dan Dare's pals or else it was on Startreck
[21:59] <Willdude123> Its not actually with one, but with a chrome
[21:59] <Willdude123> *clone
[22:00] <Willdude123> I'm thinking about chrome because today I got a Chromecast
[22:00] <gonzo_nb> that was an am trf rx chip wasn't it?
[22:00] <Willdude123> Yep
[22:00] <gonzo_nb> xtal set on steriods
[22:00] <g0pai_ian> Ah I see. it Just doesn't want to lie down and die. First of it's type
[22:02] <g0pai_ian> Good luck with the oven campaign. I have to go AFK got some naked aviators to sort out in the morning, so have to buzz off for now. Hundreds of boxes of them!
[22:03] <Willdude123> I hope you aren't referring to pilots when you say aviators
[22:04] <g0pai_ian> worker bees are female, wear no clothes, ergo I play with naked girls in boxes . . . great ice breaker. double take is often the first reaction!
[22:06] <g0pai_ian> If I had a quid for everyone that asks if I ever get stung . . . I smile knowingly - a bit of a concept of good day, bad day! gnite.
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> good night g0pai_ian
[22:08] <g0pai_ian> Gutte nacht Lunar_Lander
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[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[22:15] <Willdude123> Goo night g0pai_ian
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[00:00] --- Sun Apr 13 2014