highaltitude.log.20140411

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[00:29] <amell> morning, anyone awake?
[00:30] <amell> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1569698176/2000-student-projects-to-the-edge-of-space how strange and commercial
[00:56] <g0pai_ian> amell: Hows about ejecting a few ping pong balls at altitude . . . With a parachute picture to keep them legal of course! :)
[00:56] <amell> all very strange
[00:58] <g0pai_ian> I think the money is better spent on our own HAB experiments . . . more fun and first hand learning.
[00:58] <g0pai_ian> Time to be AFK Zzzz Gnite Amell
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[04:48] <Reb-SM3ULC> morrn!
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[08:14] <ibanezmatt13> morning
[08:17] <number10> morning
[08:17] <daveake> morning
[08:18] <ibanezmatt13> daveake, did BUZZ perform well yesterday? My tracking attempt seemed more unsuccesful than ever yesterday; only got one or two greens of JUDY :P
[08:19] <ibanezmatt13> even with the biscuit tin
[08:20] <gonzo_> wrong type of bicsuits?
[08:21] <ibanezmatt13> haha, there were no biscuits - had to eat 'em all so I could get the magmout in, a good exuse... :)
[08:22] <gonzo_> you should try a variety of types, just to be sure
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[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, as I was getting it down the gaffer tape managed to pull some paint off the wall; didn't go down well :P
[08:24] <daveake> Buzz worked fine
[08:24] <daveake> Dunno what the range was like
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> Last time we couldn't hear it after 1 or 2km up
[08:25] <ibanezmatt13> Must have been a dodgy antenna then as Upu said :)
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[10:30] <ibanezmatt13> got a bit of an issue here: http://pbrd.co/1nbyhXo
[10:30] <ibanezmatt13> should be fixable shouldn't it?
[10:31] <ibanezmatt13> slipped through the net, only just seen it :/
[10:31] <craag> ibanezmatt13: The really thin lines?
[10:31] <craag> I think that might be a glitch in gerbv
[10:31] <ibanezmatt13> no the inductor pad is not connected to the track
[10:32] <craag> oh
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> as if a problem with the naming of nets in Eagle, it has kept it disconnected
[10:32] <craag> Which track is it meant to be connected to?
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> the one directly below it
[10:32] <ibanezmatt13> separated by that dark line
[10:33] <craag> Not the one that it's currently connected to on the left?
[10:33] <ibanezmatt13> oh wait
[10:33] <ibanezmatt13> I might have got this wrong :P
[10:34] Action: ibanezmatt13 checks pinout on datasheet
[10:34] <ibanezmatt13> all fine
[10:34] <ibanezmatt13> just a panic :)
[10:34] <craag> :)
[10:36] <ibanezmatt13> I'm hoping they're somewhere in the country. HK post tracker says they left Hong Kong on Wednesday, officially started their journey on the 2nd
[10:36] <craag> :D
[10:37] <ibanezmatt13> craag, if they've been en route for 10 days, how much longer can they be? I mean, if they left hong kong on Wednesday, they must have arrived here yesterday :)
[10:37] <ibanezmatt13> my eagerness is slowly translating into impatience, haha
[10:38] <craag> About 2-3 weeks is normal for HK post I think
[10:39] <eroomde> THEY MIGHT NEVER TURN UP
[10:39] <eroomde> whoops
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[10:39] <ibanezmatt13> don't do that to me :)
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[10:40] <ibanezmatt13> The last lot arrived in 7 days, just wondered why these are taking longer. I wish you could track it here as well as on the HK tracker which is updated once every wekk
[10:40] <ibanezmatt13> wekk
[10:40] <ibanezmatt13> week :P
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[11:40] <chrisstubbsw> afternoon ibanezmatt13
[11:41] <ibanezmatt13> hey Chris :)
[11:41] <chrisstubbsw> whats new?
[11:41] <ibanezmatt13> Not much, wishing to know when my boards will arrive :/
[11:42] <ibanezmatt13> can't do much til then
[11:42] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: Hackvana?
[11:42] <ibanezmatt13> yup
[11:42] <chrisstubbsw> aha
[11:42] <Willdude123> You probably ought to be asking yourself if they'll arrive first
[11:42] <chrisstubbsw> so are these the funny shaped ones or do you have them?
[11:42] <ibanezmatt13> yep, these are the ones
[11:43] <ibanezmatt13> Been writing code for it the past few days. Think my Domino ISR isn't far off ready
[11:43] <ibanezmatt13> had a good deal of assistance inspiration though :)
[11:44] Action: ibanezmatt13 reverts to revision
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[12:06] <DL7AD> does anybody know whether b44 passes mount everest at night or day?
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[12:44] <DL7AD> hm.... nobody awake
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[13:11] <fsphil> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FAETHR2-1&timerange=86400&tail=86400
[13:12] <fsphil> not solar powered sadly
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[13:20] <x-f> it's a ZP instead
[13:21] <x-f> from those emails looks like it was just a test and there will be more to come
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[14:26] <SilverIV7> Afternoon
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[14:31] <SilverIV7> Which Arduino board do you guys use / recommend? does the Uno suffice?
[14:31] <eroomde> yes
[14:33] <SilverIV7> thanks, also in the tutorials I see people use breadboard, is that just for testing or do they send it up like that?
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[14:36] <craag> Just for testing
[14:37] <craag> Some of us also avoid breadboard for testing, as inconsistent connections can be frustrating.
[14:37] <mattbrejza> a breadboard payload sounds like a challange
[14:38] <mattbrejza> if you used a new breadboard and layed stuff out nicely id say itll be just as reliable
[14:38] <mattbrejza> might need some error handling and watchdog :P
[14:38] <SilverIV7> Okay, any pics of a finalised soldered flight ready one? My mind works better with pics :p
[14:39] <mattbrejza> its not advised oc
[14:39] <mattbrejza> one that sits on top a uno?
[14:39] <mattbrejza> http://www.habduino.org/
[14:39] <SilverIV7> Yeh you wouldn't want your circuits failing 18 miles up
[14:41] <SilverIV7> I was thinking of following this tutorial and connecting the Radiometrix NTX2B to the arduino, or is it not that simple.. http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=617
[14:41] <mattbrejza> it is indeed that simple
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[14:44] <SilverIV7> Would that option give as reliable tracking as the habduino? it must have benefits for £80 more?
[14:44] <mattbrejza> the habdunio is ment for schools who dont do electronics but can do some programming
[14:44] <mattbrejza> or along those lines
[14:45] <mattbrejza> doing it yourself is no less reliable (if you test it well enough)
[14:45] <UpuWork> I make the Habduino and I suggest you do it yourself using the NTX2B and a GPS
[14:45] <UpuWork> you'll understand it more
[14:45] <UpuWork> which is key to this really
[14:45] <mattbrejza> habuino has a more expensive radio
[14:45] <UpuWork> yeah but realistically not much difference anymore
[14:45] <mattbrejza> although the ntx2 can now do the same :P
[14:45] <UpuWork> as the NTX2B's I sell have the custom frequency agile firmware on them
[14:45] <mattbrejza> you gonna change it out when you run out of lmwhatevers?
[14:46] <UpuWork> possibly
[14:46] <UpuWork> may stop making them
[14:46] <UpuWork> not decided yet
[14:46] <mattbrejza> are people using them as you intended?
[14:46] <SilverIV7> that makes sense, I'm not the best soldered in the world but it's not too many joins so should be doable
[14:46] <UpuWork> not really
[14:47] <UpuWork> hardly any interest from schools
[14:47] <mattbrejza> one of the kids at cedars school did modify the code
[14:47] <UpuWork> they are want Pi stuff
[14:47] <mattbrejza> unfortinaetly he didnt test it properly so we had to roll back
[14:47] <UpuWork> AVA was a Habduino
[14:47] <UpuWork> some oddness going on with the GPS
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[14:47] <UpuWork> we think one of Lesters cheap chinese cameras was locking stuff out
[14:48] <UpuWork> as the pAVA board exhibited the same issues
[14:48] <mattbrejza> even the contour roams interfere with gps
[14:48] <mattbrejza> which is why i tend to use seperate boxes now
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[14:48] <UpuWork> probably a good idea
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[14:49] <craag> mattbrejza: Did you fly a troublesome max7 board at the weekend?
[14:49] <UpuWork> btw please don't take the habduino code as a reference point its just a collection of other peoples code put together
[14:49] <mattbrejza> nope
[14:49] <mattbrejza> was that aimed at me? we just put it on as known working code
[14:50] <mattbrejza> craag: i think i need to go to the cetnre of the common before they get lock...
[14:50] <craag> Yeah, git clone, change callsign and PWM pin, flashed it and launched..
[14:50] <mattbrejza> now that i have a mobile avr based serial monitor maybe i should
[14:50] <mattbrejza> or rather compare away from the house
[14:51] <mattbrejza> btw whens the rpi tracker going to be ready? there is a another school we know who might be interested in one?
[14:52] <mfa298> Pi tracker using the model A/B is old school now the Compute module is out
[14:52] <mattbrejza> sigh
[14:53] <mattbrejza> also what is it with people wantingto make 'supercomputer' clusters with them
[14:53] <craag> I don't like the compute module much
[14:53] <craag> It seems aimed at clusters
[14:53] <craag> No ethernet, limited flash space.
[14:53] <mattbrejza> why would you not use a gumstix board?
[14:53] <mfa298> although doing anything with the Compute module is going to be harder than just adding a board onto the GPIO
[14:53] <mattbrejza> persumably a better product range
[14:53] <mattbrejza> and more for the money
[14:54] <mattbrejza> ok they are a but more expensive
[14:55] <mfa298> I think the idea of the compute module is more for the commercial people where they can invest time in making a board for it to sit on with the bits they need (ethernet / hdmi etc)
[14:56] <mattbrejza> yea but why would you actually want to use a pi for something
[14:56] <craag> I'd like to play with the ethernet-capable STM32F2s
[14:56] <SilverIV7> Are there any tutorials out there on how to connect the Radiometrix NTX2B and the Arduino without breadboard?
[14:56] <craag> I think they could replace a lot of stuff I currently use PIs for
[14:56] <eroomde> SilverIV7: it's the same as with a breadboard
[14:56] <eroomde> but just with wire
[14:56] <eroomde> you need cutters and wire strippers and wire
[14:57] <eroomde> not solid-core wire
[14:57] <eroomde> as that breaks after a while
[14:57] <SilverIV7> oh okay, a lot of the other projects seem to make their owns pcbs, that's just for more advanced features?
[14:57] <eroomde> no
[14:57] <eroomde> basic features too
[14:57] <eroomde> making pcbs is just quite cheap and easy now
[14:57] <eroomde> it's a nicer solution really
[14:57] <mattbrejza> the stm32f2s even have a camera interface
[14:58] <eroomde> but if you're a beginner (sounds like it) you might not want to tackle loads of new stuff all at once
[14:58] <eroomde> i wouldn't get too fixated on tutorials for specific things
[14:59] <eroomde> it's all quite basic electronics, better to learn the principles of the electronics and then you'll know how to apply it in these specific cases
[14:59] <eroomde> eg generating the two different voltages required by the ntx2 with a potential divider
[14:59] <SilverIV7> yes, the first launch is just about getting up there, taking some nice pics and recovering the balloon and payload safely really
[14:59] <eroomde> indeed
[14:59] <eroomde> that's a very laudable way to go about it
[14:59] <eroomde> getting a good success under your belt
[15:01] <eroomde> and then iterating up (it's quite addictive)
[15:01] <SilverIV7> if it doesn't end up in the channel!
[15:02] <eroomde> always a risk!
[15:02] <eroomde> you're in the uk then?
[15:02] <SilverIV7> yes just south of london
[15:02] <SilverIV7> kent
[15:02] <eroomde> cool
[15:03] <eroomde> you might poss want to drive a bit west or up to cam for launching
[15:03] <mattbrejza> youll be waiting a while for the right winds
[15:03] <eroomde> people are usually quite willing to help you out if they have a launch site
[15:03] <mattbrejza> there was a week or so last month thoigh when you could have laucnhed
[15:03] <eroomde> which is one of the nice things about the hobby
[15:03] <eroomde> also, i really recommend, if you can, going to see a launch of someone else
[15:03] <eroomde> it's a really great way to answer lots of questions about the whole process
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[15:07] <SilverIV7> yeh that seems like a good idea, everyone seems friendly so far
[15:07] <eroomde> usually happy to have a helping hand at the launch!
[15:07] <eroomde> yes everyone is very friendly
[15:08] <eroomde> there's a conference in london (for the last 3 years) where we all meet up and talk shop
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[15:08] <SilverIV7> I do have a facebook group that i'll be updating with the project so if any of you want to stay updated https://www.facebook.com/groups/776439285700768/ very early stages atm
[15:08] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[15:08] <eroomde> cool
[15:08] <eroomde> stay around the channel too
[15:09] <eroomde> also i don't know if you tweet, but the bot here will report into this channel any tweets with the tag #ukhas and some other tags, though i forget which
[15:09] <SilverIV7> I will do, it's favourited in my bookmarks folder
[15:09] <craag> Just #ukhas atm.
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[15:10] <eroomde> works for me as i'm interested in the twitter posts but not very good at following twitter itself
[15:10] <eroomde> irc is about the extent of my social medianess
[15:17] <mattbrejza> any idea on where to get super thin nickel wire?
[15:18] <g0pai_ian> nickel or nichrome? Nichrome used for heating elements/hot wires.
[15:18] <mattbrejza> nickel
[15:18] <mattbrejza> want it for a temperature sensor
[15:19] <g0pai_ian> OK mat, just checking. Didn't notice your nick or I would have known better. *thermocouple?*
[15:20] <g0pai_ian> Doncha just hate the people that modify your question to make the answer a lot easier? :)
[15:20] <mattbrejza> although if nichrome could be used that would make things easier
[15:20] <mattbrejza> usually got to be a pure metal thougj
[15:24] <mattbrejza> well nichrome's temperature cooefficent is an order of magnitude lower so that wont work so well
[15:24] <g0pai_ian> Here are a couple of places to try. Where are you located Mat? http://www.alloywire.com/small_quantities.html http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/ni_bare.html
[15:24] <mattbrejza> uk
[15:25] <g0pai_ian> That makes it relatiely simple then!
[15:26] <g0pai_ian> Nothing quite like looking for a source and then finding that the enquirer lives up around the source of the Amazon swatting mosquitoes all day.
[15:28] <mattbrejza> i wonder what the thinnest wire thats reasonable to work with is
[15:28] <eroomde> i have just been sent an encrypted file from a customer
[15:29] <eroomde> then in the next email, the key to decrypt it
[15:29] <eroomde> in plain text
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[15:29] <g0pai_ian> That's security awareness for you Ed. Not rocket science, apparently - but related!
[15:30] <mattbrejza> alloywire.com dont actually sell pure nickel wire
[15:30] <nats`> eroomde it makes sense when you just want some crappy .exe passing through antispam/virus
[15:30] <mattbrejza> can you solder to nickel is the next thing
[15:31] <g0pai_ian> I thought that you wanted pure metal . . . if you are making thermocouples then is it welding of the junction and not sure about the connections to terminals.
[15:31] <number10> mattbrejza: I know some guitar strings are nickel some say pure
[15:31] <g0pai_ian> I suspect that the guitar strings are nickel plated.
[15:31] <mattbrejza> yea its just soldering it at each end
[15:32] <g0pai_ian> Personally I go for violin strings with gold E
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[15:34] <g0pai_ian> eroomde: key management has always been one of the great weaknesses of cryptography.
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[15:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> Heads up LeoBodnar has asked for a Flight Doc for 17:00 today B-45
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[15:51] <SilverIV7> is there any way to set this irc up with a desktop client like mirc?
[15:52] <eroomde> yes
[15:52] <eroomde> i think you jusrt said it!
[15:52] <eroomde> the server is irc.freenode.net
[15:52] <eroomde> the room is #highaltitude
[15:52] <SilverIV7> port?
[15:53] <nats`> default
[15:53] <nats`> 6667
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> or 8001
[15:54] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: do you know anyone at UK Space Agency?
[15:55] <Laurenceb_> i was trying to get in touch with them
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[15:59] <Silver_IV7> mirc is working #test
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[15:59] <nats`> it doesn't works I can't read you
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[16:00] <nats`> oO
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[16:08] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: um sure yes...
[16:08] <eroomde> who?
[16:08] <Laurenceb_> pm
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[16:13] <SilverIV7> what was the pre built arduino and Radiometrix NTX2B called again? h...
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[16:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> habduino
[16:16] <SilverIV7> that's the one, thanks
[16:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.habduino.org/
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[16:31] <DL7AD> evening
[16:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hi Sven
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[17:04] <Andy-G4MYS> knowledge on how to decode the B45 flight is welcome! Andy
[17:06] <Andy-G4MYS> think Ive just sussed it!
[17:07] <SilverIV7> any advice on a gps module for the arduino uno?
[17:08] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[17:08] <Upu> that one
[17:08] <Upu> Adafruit doesn't work above 27km
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[17:11] <SilverIV7> okay thanks, if you use gps can you track it through a gps reader from the ground as well as by radio? or is gps just for the stats?
[17:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The GPS co-ordinates are sent back to ground and plotted on SNUS (as well as stuffed in the Habitat database)
[17:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You can receive these directly on your own Rx and plot them (say out of Internet range) or send them into SNUS for plotting as well.
[17:20] <SA6BSS> B45 on 10 minute spectrum grabs http://www.qsl.net/sa6bss/
[17:25] <Laurenceb_> i wonder what info could be extracted from that doppler
[17:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> SilverIV7, See here screen grab whilst tracking a flight, top left is the main radio console, showing two payload transmitters below are two copies of Dl-Fldigi decoding the data one shows a Green bar
[17:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> which is success decode the other a Red decode an error in the string somewhere,
[17:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> these are automatically sent to SpaceNear.Us which is displayed lower right
[17:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2013_Flights/ANU_NANU-20130608/screen_201306081421.jpg
[17:26] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> you can extracxt quite easily fro Dl-fldigi the data to work on yourself if you wish
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[17:57] <edusupport> ping upu
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[18:02] <DL7AD> does somebody already have a prediction for b-45?
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[18:05] <cm13g09> DL7AD: he's got ANOTHER one up?
[18:05] <cm13g09> LEO!
[18:05] <DL7AD> cm13g09: yes he has
[18:05] <DL7AD> and he never tells someone about
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[18:06] <DL7AD> but i got an bot which informs me ;)
[18:06] <cm13g09> lol
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[18:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Predict for B-45 but it hasn't yet reached float http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub/arlTraj.swf?client=gme-noaa&channel=OAR.ARL.HQ.HYSPLIT&dir=/hypubout/HYSPLITtraj_120224&data=/hysplit_metadata&ext=html
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[18:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:36] <cm13g09> craag: ping
[18:37] <Andy-G4MYS> how strange the dipole at 4m receives fine swhile the colinear in the clear 6M higher gets a miss read!
[18:40] <eroomde> EM fields are weird things
[18:40] <eroomde> and electrons are gits
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[18:42] <Andy-G4MYS> so this computer G4MYS-2 got a perfect read so wheres my report?!
[18:42] <Andy-G4MYS> its a differnt rx and different aerial!
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[18:45] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE-M -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[18:59] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
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[19:01] <G6SUQ_Graham> evening all, I see Leo is flying again, is it the usual freq?
[19:01] <SA6BSS> yes
[19:01] <Upu> it is
[19:01] <Upu> slightly different mode though
[19:02] <G6SUQ_Graham> what mode do I set in fldigi
[19:02] <Upu> Contestia 8/250
[19:03] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[19:04] <aadamson> Help!!! ... glug, glug, glug... upu is this the same gps antenna you are using? http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1575AT43A0040E/712-1003-1-ND/1560832
[19:04] <aadamson> from the model is says it is, but I'll be danged if I can make it work
[19:04] <Upu> hi aadamson
[19:04] <Upu> sorry missed you last night I'd gone to bed
[19:04] <aadamson> no worries, yea I knew you had.
[19:04] <Upu> yes
[19:05] <Upu> pics of the layout ps
[19:05] <aadamson> well, dang then what is the secret sauce?
[19:05] <aadamson> hang on
[19:05] <Upu> not putting shit near it :)
[19:05] <aadamson> that's no problem, no shit near it
[19:05] <Upu> in that case lets see a pic
[19:06] <Upu> do you get time ?
[19:06] <aadamson> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/DSCN2443.JPG
[19:06] <aadamson> not the greatest straight on, hang I've got a better or can gen a 3d version
[19:06] <aadamson> I let it run for so last night, I let it run over night - didn't even have time this morning
[19:07] <aadamson> this afternoon, it's ran for 2hrs and I just got time
[19:07] <Upu> got the eagle files ?
[19:07] <Upu> pm me a link
[19:09] <aadamson> its in diptrace
[19:09] <aadamson> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/topend.png
[19:09] <aadamson> that's easier to see
[19:09] <aadamson> it's exactly what you did
[19:09] <aadamson> I think
[19:10] <aadamson> this last time too 15 mins to get the time
[19:10] <aadamson> and I still don't have a postion lock
[19:10] <aadamson> *all of this is box stock*, nmea, nothing changed from standard
[19:10] <aadamson> 9600 baud, all ascii at the moment
[19:10] <aadamson> and no the serial isn't dropping characters
[19:10] <aadamson> I've watched the raw output
[19:12] <Upu> Can I look at the Eagle files ?
[19:12] <aadamson> it doesn't matter if radio is on or off
[19:12] <aadamson> they aren't eagle as I said they are diptrace do you have it loaded?
[19:12] <Upu> oh sorry
[19:12] <Upu> missed that
[19:12] <aadamson> no problem
[19:12] <Upu> show me 3D of the rear
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[19:13] <eroomde> said the actress to the bishop
[19:14] <Willdude123_> IBYSTTATB
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[19:14] <Willdude123_> Weird - Curry's have no toaster ovens. Or do we call them something else here?
[19:15] <aadamson> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/bottomtop.png
[19:15] <eroomde> Willdude123_: argos have them iirc
[19:15] <aadamson> I didn't think the ground was supposed to extend under the antenna so I didn't
[19:15] <Upu> so you don't even get time ?
[19:15] <aadamson> not very consistenly
[19:15] <Willdude123_> So should I just use a multimeter and thermocouple to measure the temp?
[19:16] <Willdude123_> Getting a chromecast from currys tomorrow so I could do to get one from there
[19:16] <Upu> ok remove the antenna
[19:16] <aadamson> ok?
[19:16] <aadamson> then what?
[19:16] <Upu> and solder a 45mm wire to the pads
[19:16] <aadamson> try another :)
[19:16] <aadamson> ok... 45mm long?
[19:17] <Upu> 1/4 wave
[19:17] <aadamson> any diameter?
[19:17] <aadamson> ok
[19:17] <Willdude123_> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4235390.htm
[19:17] <Willdude123_> That do?
[19:17] <Upu> I doubt diameter will matter :)
[19:17] <eroomde> have you metered the power line?
[19:18] <aadamson> 45mm 1/2wave at 1.575ghz?
[19:18] <aadamson> that seems kinda long
[19:18] <Upu> hang on let me check
[19:18] <aadamson> didn't do the math, but I wouldn't think that is the right length
[19:18] <aadamson> and it is half or quarter that we are after
[19:18] <Upu> ping LeoBodnar wire GPS antenna 45mm ?
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[19:19] <Upu> 45mm
[19:19] <Willdude123_> eroomde, me?
[19:19] <Upu> 1/4 wave
[19:19] <aadamson> k...
[19:19] <cherisg7ogx> set to contestia 8/250 but no decode!
[19:19] <LeoBodnar> yes
[19:20] <LeoBodnar> 47mm ish
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/Cryh9U0.jpg
[19:20] <aadamson> http://www.csgnetwork.com/antennagenericfreqlencalc.html - yup indeed, just expected it would be *shorter* :)... 1.78xxx inches
[19:20] <Upu> inches ?
[19:20] <aadamson> hehe... ya
[19:20] <Upu> thats why your GPS doesn't work because you're using inches
[19:21] <eroomde> Willdude123_: no aadamson
[19:21] <aadamson> it's that *other* measurement system
[19:21] <eroomde> was wondering if he'd scoped his power line
[19:21] <Willdude123_> I didn't get where I am today by using inches
[19:21] <eroomde> to see if it was stable and low-noise
[19:21] <aadamson> already done that
[19:21] <Willdude123_> I see
[19:21] <aadamson> no problem with power eroomde
[19:21] <Willdude123_> Don't mind me - just browsing toaster ovens
[19:21] <Upu> http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/map_of_countries_that_dont_use_metric_system.jpg
[19:21] <aadamson> hey, I try, but it's hard to train a 50+ year old brain
[19:21] <Willdude123_> upu, We do, sorta
[19:21] <Upu> ssssh Willdude123 :)
[19:22] <Upu> True story I switched my car to kilometers for the sat nav yesterday
[19:22] <Upu> mainly because I was bored sat in traffic
[19:22] <Willdude123_> Upu, really? I thought you were lying
[19:22] <Willdude123_> :P
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> 47mm ftw http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/1a48508ab17e8c84abd01523e09e1ec2#g/satellites
[19:23] <Willdude123_> False story, I met a unicorn yesterday and well, we are still good friends
[19:24] <Willdude123_> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4235390.htm so what about this oven?
[19:25] <edusupport> upu pm
[19:25] <eroomde> Willdude123_: that'll do nicely
[19:25] <Upu> just to say I can't see any reason why that design doens't work
[19:25] <Willdude123_> Nice. And I'm guesing I'll need to get some form of temperature probe?
[19:26] <eroomde> ideally
[19:26] <Willdude123_> A probe will be useful both for this and if I meet any aliens
[19:26] <eroomde> aadamson: have you tried a different gps module?
[19:26] <Upu> attached to some sort of PID controller
[19:27] <Willdude123_> eroomde, will google
[19:27] <Willdude123_> Shame I can't get one from currys cause then I could kill two birds with one stone. Right other stuff I need, solder paste?
[19:27] <aadamson> eroomde, another 7C?
[19:28] <eroomde> yeah
[19:28] <aadamson> I know I can put an mt3329 right next to it and have lock in 2mins
[19:28] <aadamson> no, not yet
[19:28] <aadamson> are there bad ones?
[19:28] <eroomde> you can make them bad
[19:29] <eroomde> rf_in is quite static-sensitive
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> Viva les French trackers!
[19:29] <eroomde> i'm now in birmingham
[19:29] <eroomde> the north
[19:31] <Willdude123_> eroomde, you moved?
[19:32] <eroomde> in a car
[19:32] <Willdude123_> So what other stuff shall I need? Solder paste, probes and erm
[19:32] <Willdude123_> IDK
[19:32] <Willdude123_> A load of youtube videos showing how to do it
[19:32] <aadamson> it only needs to be attached to the RF side, right, it can be a vertical?
[19:33] <Upu> solder it on both pads
[19:33] <aadamson> 47mm of wire attached...
[19:33] <mattbrejza> aadamson: ill be interested if you get it working, ive had max7 issues too
[19:33] <aadamson> let's start with the acid test... on my test bench :)
[19:34] <Upu> occasionally on the chip antenna I've seen slow locks
[19:34] <Upu> in the window
[19:34] <G6SUQ_Graham> I tried that once, melted my bench
[19:34] <Upu> but then I'll test it an hour or so later and its fine
[19:35] <aadamson> well, it seems I'm not the only one, also heard from another US guy who hasn't made them work either :(... But I know you guys so, so there must be magic somewhere
[19:36] <Upu> well if you mean the chap using KT5TK's board that was due to the proximity of the SMA
[19:36] <aadamson> yeah his too, no another
[19:36] <Upu> they do work and I can't see why yours doesn't
[19:36] <aadamson> that board just has issues everywhere
[19:36] <Upu> tey the wire
[19:36] <Upu> try
[19:36] <aadamson> yeah me either... wire in processo
[19:36] <aadamson> process
[19:36] <Upu> if that doesn't work replace the chip and take it away from your current location
[19:36] <Upu> and test
[19:37] <aadamson> and finally change the module... hope I have hot air tip that might work :)
[19:37] <Upu> I've never seen a cooked MAX chip
[19:37] <eroomde> i read that as prosecco
[19:37] <Upu> and I've soldered over 500 now
[19:37] <eroomde> which increases my gain, certainly
[19:38] <Upu> heck it even worked when I over heated it and lifted the can off
[19:38] <Upu> some of the components fell off the inside so I soldered them back and it still worked
[19:39] <eroomde> i had a DoA max chip
[19:40] <eroomde> this one time
[19:40] <Upu> interesting never seen one
[19:40] <eroomde> a leprechaun gave it to me
[19:40] <Upu> this is the only ublox module I've see someone knacker : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_0448.JPG
[19:40] <DL7AD> evening ;)
[19:40] <Upu> *wasn't me
[19:41] <eroomde> did they try and chew it off the pcb?
[19:41] <Upu> Ask cuddykid next time you see him :)
[19:44] <aadamson> eroomde, on the power topic I tried 3 different smps, then I tried a good old hp bench DC supply, all provided the same results... Either this the worlds deafest gps, I've somehow damaged it, or I just don't have the secret sauce that you all do :)
[19:44] <eroomde> alpha-numeric road signs here have the nagging non-sequitor quality of a primary school teacher
[19:44] <eroomde> "Bin your rubbish. other people do"
[19:44] <Upu> send me the gerbers aadamson I'll overlay mine and see if there is any subtle difference but unless you have ground plane under the chip I suspect something is broken
[19:45] <Upu> yes eroomde those are near Birmingham
[19:45] <Upu> I saw them yesterday
[19:45] <aadamson> ok, bench test - fail... hang on upu, I'll give you a link
[19:45] <Upu> was like really we need signs like that
[19:45] <Upu> "be a human being"
[19:46] <eroomde> yeah
[19:46] <eroomde> they should just turn them off if they don't really have anything to say
[19:46] <eroomde> rather than nag
[19:47] <Upu> reminds me http://imgur.com/gallery/eW79w
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> Just "be" would be enough
[19:47] <aadamson> pm incoming Upu
[19:47] <aadamson> ok, going to test outside... back in a few
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[19:48] <LeoBodnar> by the time you contemplate what beingness involves you would have binned the rubbish almost willingly
[19:52] <aadamson> Upu, get the file?
[19:52] <Upu> yes 2 mins
[19:52] <aadamson> no worries...
[19:53] <aadamson> eroomde, you have an experience with a metcal soldering iron? they use RF to heat the tip, it's pretty much instant on.
[19:53] <aadamson> wonder if that could have damaged the chip somehow
[19:53] <eroomde> if you made some software to check source code for stylistic problems like poorly named variables, you could call it: foo fighters
[19:53] <aadamson> *but* it worked after the initial soldering
[19:58] <eroomde> yeah, i'm sure metcal would have gone out of business if their probes had dangerous potentials
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[20:14] <Upu> aadamson I use Metcal all the time
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[20:19] <aadamson> Upu, thanks good to know, I love mine.. and use it for everything
[20:19] <aadamson> ok, antenna replaced as an easy first step.
[20:20] <Upu> if it bricked ublox chips i'd be out of business
[20:20] <nats`> Upu ublox chip are not bricked by default ? :D
[20:20] <Upu> no :)
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[20:26] <aadamson> ok, going to go try outside, at least now I'm getting some GSV sentences
[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> I still don't know if I fried my ublox maybe
[20:31] <LeoBodnar> make sure the product is piping hot
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[20:36] <aadamson> well... shoot, looks like a chip replacement is in my future... still no time...
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[20:40] <aadamson> oh, and Upu I did scrap that top copper solder point off before I put down this new antenna as you recommended, didn't seem to make a difference
[20:41] <aadamson> at ths point, figuring I must have some how *zapped* the rf side of the gps. I probably has some simple lna in there that must have got damaged
[20:42] <aadamson> and upu if you want to play with the Temp sensor in the si chips... here is my code for the 446x... http://bcas.tv/paste/results/8LKMHQ82.html
[20:43] <aadamson> the last 2 values I had to play with to make it right and there were 2 different formulas listed one in the data sheet and one in the programming reference so I had to figure out which one it was
[20:44] <aadamson> both the voltage and the temp on the 4463 came out perfect (voltage I used and the temp was reasonable in C)
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> which revision is your chip?
[20:45] <aadamson> -b
[20:45] <aadamson> what was strange... I"m at 2.0v vcc, so I thought I needed to select a different scale, but the values turned out whacky
[20:46] <DL7AD> http://dl7ad.de/hab_contacts/balloon2.php
[20:46] <LeoBodnar> temp calculation has changed in 1B
[20:46] <aadamson> so I left it at *stock* on those last 2 parameters and it works
[20:46] <aadamson> I used the formula from the datasheet, which I figured was the correct one
[20:46] <aadamson> and it seems to work out the best
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> you read slope and intersect from the chip
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> they are unique to each sample
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> Temp in Celsius = ((512 + TEMP_SLOPE) / 4096) x TEMP_ADC  (INTERCEPT / 2 + 256)
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> TEMP_SLOPE and INTERCEPT are read from the chip
[20:48] <aadamson> where does that come from, it's certainly not in the datasheet?
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[20:48] <aadamson> what commands?
[20:48] <aadamson> http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/Si4464-63-61-60.pdf - page 44
[20:48] <aadamson> is what I did
[20:49] <aadamson> to the best of my knowledge there isn't a newer reference.
[20:49] <aadamson> and the HTML programming had a very wrong formula
[20:49] <Upu> heh
[20:49] <LeoBodnar> heh indeed
[20:49] <Upu> your knowledge is wrong
[20:50] <aadamson> ok, so share?
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> did you save it Upu ?
[20:50] <aadamson> as I told LeoBodnar I'm not in the *secret handshake club*
[20:50] <Upu> yeah sec
[20:50] <aadamson> :)
[20:50] <Upu> https://www.dropbox.com/s/of26rudqyzgfxjo/EZRadioPRO_API_V1_0_3.zip
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> you are now
[20:50] <nats`> for information there is now a 1C version
[20:50] <nats`> and many things changed again
[20:50] <aadamson> OMG :)
[20:51] <nats`> just an anonymous hint dude
[20:51] <nats`> take the last version of WDS software
[20:51] <nats`> they dropped matlab software
[20:51] <nats`> all the calculator is in python
[20:51] <aadamson> is there a newer datasheet too
[20:51] <nats`> a simple bytecode reversable by any decompiler
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> indeed WDS is goodness
[20:51] <nats`> you have all the formula in there :)
[20:51] <nats`> aadamson silabs is not the as good as making doc than transceiver sadly
[20:52] <aadamson> you know I looked there and didn't find it, but it was an afterthought so I probably didn't look well enough
[20:52] <aadamson> hehe ya nats` I've noticed :)
[20:53] <nats`> and important information if you are designing a transmitter with 4463 don't mess the TX matching !
[20:53] <aadamson> yeah for sure
[20:53] <nats`> at 20dBm it's a special version
[20:54] <nats`> but if you make the one for 20dBm it'll be bad with power lower than 16dBm
[20:54] <aadamson> ah... too funny, I saw those 2 other bytes associated with the ADC stuff, they were marked as reserved... not any more :)
[20:55] <aadamson> ok, off to retrieve my very broken gps is seem... THANKS for all the information (set me back 2 days now having to unwind what I already did :))
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[21:03] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[21:13] SP3OSJ (563f462a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.63.70.42) joined #highaltitude.
[21:13] <SP3OSJ> #habhub
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[21:16] <DL7AD> wow evening SP3OSJ ;)
[21:17] <SP3OSJ> DL7AD: "Good fly" Sven :)
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:18] <DL7AD> a fly should be something only asians eat
[21:19] <daveake> You've never tried flyed lice?
[21:22] <SP3OSJ> please write fly: Doc ID:bc39cee866558f0ca040a18facc0a596
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[21:23] <SP3OSJ> Fly by lot my Antonov
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[21:41] <SP3OSJ> Your Majesty please write my flight Doc ID:bc39cee866558f0ca040a18facc0a596 , thanbks
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[21:52] <cherisg7ogx> nice to see our friends in the west country getting a play
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[22:10] <g6uim> Will stay up and track B45 for as long as I can, good signal on 70cm not turned the beam for awhile, the APRS is a colinear into a PMR radio so not the most sensitive thing
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[22:13] <g6uim> Will keep tracking B45 as long as I can, 70cm is coming in well, not turned the small beam in awhile, miight need to do that now. APRS here is a colinear into a PMR radio so not the most sensitive thing still seem to be getting it better than a lot
[22:13] <craag> g6uim: :)
[22:14] <craag> If you use pstrotator for your rotator controller, there's a program that'll track it automatically.
[22:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Works very nicely as well - says this contented user :-)
[22:17] <Upu> +1
[22:18] <g6uim> Only if you insert electrodes into me, moving house so most of my kit is packed. But my new setup when I get that far will hopefully include auto tracking AZ/EL of Balloons via habhub and also APRS
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[22:18] <craag> heh ok, excuse accepted ;)
[22:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> No No I've always fancied having ago at a bit of brain surgery, where would you like the electrodes ?
[22:20] <g6uim> My backside would probably be the best place for neural responce
[22:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
[22:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right leave this tracking see you lot in the morning AFK
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[22:26] <g6uim> Am surprised how badly the APRS is being picked up, seems mostly me and harly a great system, not intended for Balloon tracking
[22:26] <g6uim> Hardly
[22:26] <Andy-G4MYS> yep ill do the same too but seem to be on limit of range 73 de G4MYS
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[22:32] <amell> oh gosh, i missed B45
[22:32] <amell> Does he have hundreds of them lined up for automatic launch?
[22:33] <fsphil> I like to think that they're all locked up and just occasionally one escapes
[22:33] <craag> Yeah.. then when he spots one through the window floating away, he gets a cuppa before getting the flight doc/announcement sorted :)
[22:34] <fsphil> lol
[22:34] <amell> sounds about right
[22:35] <amell> He doesnt appear to have announced it
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[22:37] <g6uim> B45 had a Flight doc? I only caught it because it appeared on aprs. hit auto configure wondered why I was not decoding even though all looked good, to find eventually autoconfigure set Fl-Digi to the wrong mode
[22:38] <mattbrejza> i think aprs is off as its over france atm
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> today is the day
[22:39] <amell> of reckoning?
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> 53 years of Vostok 1 and 33 years of STS-1
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> first man in orbit and first space shuttle in orbit
[22:40] <amell> oh gosh, I remember clearly watching STS-1
[22:40] <amell> all that palava about missing tiles
[22:40] <amell> and stuff leaking into space
[22:40] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:41] <amell> then when they landed& Young and Crippen walked down the steps.
[22:42] <Willdude123> I just realised something I really don't get. How can you get a BA in CS? Its not an art
[22:44] <g6uim> Not sure APRS is on for B$% still getting it
[22:44] <g6uim> B45 I mean
[22:46] <craag> I think it's quite tightly set to the coastline
[22:46] <craag> So while it's over the bay, it'll be on.
[22:46] <amell> interesting, qualatex sell a 7kg lift cloudbuster balloon.
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[22:47] <Lunar_Lander> I read that Young had considered to eject with Crippen had they known that the launch had damaged the orbiter
[22:48] <amell> Lunar_Lander: Somehow I doubt that...
[22:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> that is one class higher than the smashed satellite in the test shop
[22:52] <Lunar_Lander> the NOAA N-Prime incident
[22:53] <amell> present me with proof of this alleged incident
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[22:59] <amell> Googled for it for a few mins. nothing. If it aint on google it didnt happen :)
[22:59] <mattbrejza> try noaa18
[22:59] <mattbrejza> oh noaa19
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2004/oct/HQ_n04158_noaa_n_mishap.html
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/65776main_noaa_np_mishap.pdf
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[23:04] <aadamson> so... you guys know that the si html document that you linked to me is *way *OLDER** than the current version?
[23:04] <aadamson> upu, LeoBodnar ?
[23:05] <aadamson> http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/EZRadioPRO-API-v1.1.2.zip this is 1.1.2, and you gave me what you said was the latest today, which is 1.0.3
[23:05] <aadamson> almost a year older than what I already had
[23:05] <aadamson> so maybe said "secret handshake club" isn't so secret after all :)
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[23:28] <Andy-G4MYS> G4MYS going QRT but monitoring - if thats not a contradiction!
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[00:00] --- Sat Apr 12 2014