highaltitude.log.20140407

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[07:29] <SA6BSS> :)
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[07:46] <fsphil> analogue versions of the saleae coming out soon, https://www.saleae.com/
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[07:52] <eroomde> that becomes just a low bandwidth scope at that point?
[07:55] <LeoBodnar> $1k funded out of $100k lol
[07:56] <LeoBodnar> why does the world need another USB scope?
[07:56] <daveake> I don't see the logic in this
[07:57] <LeoBodnar> maybe they are probing the market?
[07:57] <daveake> 1 assumes so
[07:57] <LeoBodnar> 10% funded.
[07:58] <fsphil> they're sending mixed signals
[07:58] <LeoBodnar> why would already established company look into ghetto funding?
[07:58] <fsphil> I do like my saleae logic
[07:58] <fsphil> the crowd funding thing is really odd
[07:58] <daveake> Hope they don't disappear without trace
[07:59] <daveake> Yes love mine too
[07:59] <LeoBodnar> it's a perfect storm brewing
[07:59] <daveake> Does 1 thing really well
[07:59] <fsphil> it's like it's being done on an impulse
[07:59] <daveake> Wonder what triggered it
[07:59] <fsphil> the boss went high
[08:00] <LeoBodnar> there is no connection
[08:01] <daveake> they think there's scope for improvement
[08:01] <fsphil> I'm sure someone needs 16 channels of analogue data but that's gotta be pretty niche
[08:02] <gonzo___> their plans are probably well grounded
[08:02] <gonzo___> they may do well this time-based onn their previous product
[08:04] <cm13g09> daveake: that was awful!
[08:04] <daveake> why single me out? :)
[08:04] <cm13g09> and gonzo___
[08:04] <gonzo___> sorry, did you spot that?
[08:04] <fsphil> yea daveake :)
[08:04] <gonzo___> hh
[08:04] <gonzo___> I'll holdoff for a sec
[08:05] <gonzo___> as i have nothing to gain
[08:05] <cm13g09> stop it :P
[08:06] <gonzo___> have not had a pun session all weekend. Needed to get that out of the system
[08:06] <cm13g09> mfa298: are you around yet?
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[08:27] Nick change: gonzo___ -> gonzo_
[08:36] <LeoBodnar> woo! SA arrived
[08:36] <Darkside> you received a south australia?
[08:36] <LeoBodnar> pushbuttons and twiddleknobs day
[08:36] <Darkside> must have been a big parcel
[08:37] <LeoBodnar> it's probably lethal
[08:39] <daveake> http://funnymemes.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/australia-map-meme.jpg
[08:39] <Darkside> that is surprisingly accurate
[08:40] <BrainDamage> it's not in the mid of EU, can't be australia :J
[08:40] <Darkside> >_>
[08:45] <tweetBot> @thecraag: High resolution pics from the @Raspberry_Pi 'POPEYE' HAB Payload flown by @SUSpaceflight on Saturday http://t.co/heJP4myiu2 #ukhas
[08:50] <gonzo_> craag, were they the same frames sent on ssdv, but from sd card?
[08:50] <craag> Not exactly
[08:51] <craag> It took a lot, it decided which subset to send by ssdv. THis is just a subset that I like.
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[08:59] <cm13g09> morning cuddykid
[08:59] <cm13g09> no...
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[08:59] <cm13g09> morning craag
[08:59] <cm13g09> even :P
[08:59] <cm13g09> (damned IRSSI tab complete!)
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[09:01] <daveake> craag How did it choose the best pix?
[09:02] <craag> Come for your algorithm licensing fees? ;)
[09:02] <daveake> Yes I should charge royalties for that :p
[09:02] <cm13g09> lol
[09:02] <daveake> works surprisingly well
[09:02] <mfa298> morning cm13g09
[09:02] <craag> indeed it does!
[09:03] <fsphil> file size?
[09:03] <craag> ye
[09:03] <craag> yes
[09:03] <craag> morning cm13g09
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[09:18] <cuddykid> hi cm13g09
[09:20] <cm13g09> cuddykid: wasn't intentionally saying morning to you - irssi autocompleted :P
[09:22] <craag> Not that he doesn't want to of course!
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[09:58] <shadi> Just popping in to say that your js-logtail
[09:58] <shadi> on github is awesome
[09:58] <shadi> simple is beautiful
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[10:00] <x-f> :)
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[10:36] <amell> leobodnar: people are increasingly using kickstarter purely for marketing purposes, even if they already have the capital.
[10:37] <Laurenceb> kickstarter started off retarded and now it needs to be sectioned
[10:38] <Laurenceb> maybe its a nice idea but its been wrecked by idiots
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> like modern stock exchange
[10:43] <gonzo_> isn't kickstarte just "please give me some money for nothing" ?
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[11:07] <fsphil> "fund my company so I can sell it to facebook"
[11:07] <fsphil> -starter
[11:12] <craag> hehe
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[12:36] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping ping ping
[12:37] <mfa298> cm13g09: 3pong
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[14:54] <g0pai_ian> .
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[15:30] <Willdude123> You guys seen this new saleae ?
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[15:33] <LeoBodnar> ?! "Note that achieving the highest sample rates requires low USB latency"
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[15:47] <daveake> what a tease
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[16:17] <Laurenceb__> http://s1.b3ta.com/host/creative/83539/1339638571/bladecopter.gif
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[16:27] <g0pai_ian> Nice image, but did anyone read the secret Morse message that flashes up in the bottom left?
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[16:29] <g0pai_ian> That would be the bottom other left of course . . . bottom right!
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[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[19:09] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:09] <mclane> evening
[19:10] <mclane> I just read about the new raspi compute module coming in june
[19:10] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[19:10] <mclane> looks small
[19:11] <mclane> and low power
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> 'looks low power' - do you have magical vision?
[19:11] <mclane> there is a video 5V 130 mA or so
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> That's close on the draw of the model A.
[19:11] <SpeedEvil> Or the model B with USB suspended
[19:12] <mclane> http://vimeo.com/91292623
[19:12] <craag> Yeah it's really due to the lack of the ethernet/usb IC
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[19:14] <SpeedEvil> http://www.briandorey.com/post/Raspberry-Pi-model-A-vs-Model-B.aspx
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> Model A - 111mA login prompt
[19:15] <SpeedEvil> Sorry - I just find it astounding how underwhelming a 'new product' they've managed to bring out.
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> Have I missed a price announcement?
[19:16] <craag> THe only use I can see really is for these pi clusters that people build
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[19:16] <mikestir> something cortex A based would have been more interesting
[19:16] <mikestir> (in general - not for hab specifically)
[19:16] <craag> ~$30 in batches of 100
[19:16] <craag> SpeedEvil: ^^
[19:17] <SpeedEvil> Or actual CPU availability from broadcom with a commitment to long term supply.
[19:17] <mfa298> that looks like its the industrial pi that was mentioned here a couple of months back
[19:18] <mfa298> there's a blog post about it http://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-compute-module-new-product/
[19:18] <mfa298> which might be more informative - I've not watched the video yet
[19:19] <mfa298> has 4G of flash on the board as well which will make make commercial users happy - I think that's where half of my recent annoyances with the pi's has come form
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[19:20] <SpeedEvil> I wish the warpboard was scheduled to be cheaper
[19:24] <Lunar_Lander> is that a Raspberry Pi C then ?
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> craag, I saw one of these
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> 64 Raspberry Pi and LEGO as structural elements
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[19:39] <LeoBodnar> Raspberry Pi gravy train will end up in the same depot as Arduino gravy train with their seemingly random and pointless detours into Cortex and Intel artchitetures
[19:40] <Laurenceb> heh
[19:40] <LeoBodnar> take a bad product and attempt to milk it beyond dry
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[19:42] <Laurenceb> it only exists as broadcom had a ton of excess inventory
[19:45] <mfa298> looking at this compute Pi it will really suit some commercial users but I don't think it's really going to be a home user thing.
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[19:48] <nats`> [21:42:46] <Laurenceb> it only exists as broadcom had a ton of excess inventory <= which exists (excess inventory) only because BCM didn't manage to sell it because that's a crappy cpu
[19:49] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, I asked this one before (sorry), but can't remember the answer... are you using any Voltage divider on the ADC pin you are sampling the solar volage with or are you just adc to solar vcc... because these are .5v cells I suspect you are direct with no VD?
[19:50] <aadamson> obviously, you'll need on on the lipo side if Vda is less than 3.7 volts and or the pin isn't at least 5v tolerant
[19:51] <aadamson> wow, there's a first (in my short time anyway), went to spacenear.us and nothing on it for post or pre launches :)... must be monday...
[19:52] <LeoBodnar> direct ADC sampling
[19:53] <aadamson> Thank you!
[19:53] <craag> mfa298: I'm not sure I like the idea of having to implement and layout my own NIC :/
[19:53] <aadamson> pins are 3v3 tolerant anyway, but just wanted to make sure
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> UK weather is crap atm
[19:53] <aadamson> ah, yea same here in ATL, got 4 inches of rain overnight... sheesh, but temps are nice. been in the 70's now in the 50-low 60's
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[19:54] <aadamson> Hey so I'm curious... without a VCXO, how are you doing AFSK on your pico board?
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[19:56] <LeoBodnar> modulating the PLL
[19:57] <aadamson> the 446x?
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> it's a bit hairy but it works
[19:57] <aadamson> interesting... I got mine working on thor16 and afsk with the cdcel913
[19:57] <aadamson> using it as a vxco
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> it's the code i don't want to revisit
[19:58] <aadamson> yes, I"m sure,
[19:58] <aadamson> that's the ugly way to do it.. I use PWM at 125khz and a DDS at around 26.667khz and phase shift for tone generation
[19:58] <aadamson> allows me to go anywhere frequency wise and the DDS clock can also be used for baud
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> 913 is not spectacular in phase noise depatment but who cares
[19:59] <aadamson> feed that to the vcxo input on the cdcel and the clock to the si chip and instant fm
[19:59] <aadamson> yes, I found that, it's worse when it's a vcxo then when its not
[20:00] <aadamson> being clocked with a 27mhz crystal
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[20:00] <aadamson> higher the frequency on the cdc on the vcxo side and the less phase issues I found
[20:00] <LeoBodnar> are you using 913 in VCXO mode?
[20:00] <aadamson> both actually
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[20:00] <aadamson> I am using it in vcxo when doing afsk
[20:00] <aadamson> when doing mfsk, I just turn off the vcxo and use it as just a crystal based clock
[20:01] <aadamson> but as you know the si channel steps are XO dependant so being able to move the XO around was worth it... I do need a TCXO on the CDCEL, but I'll fix that in another rev
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> i see. i had a receiver designed around 913 as a LO with VCXO tuning
[20:01] <aadamson> I just used a little y8 27mhz crystal for now
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> analogue way with proper knob
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> but it wasn't very impressive
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> *the tuning
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> it's non-liner for a start
[20:03] <aadamson> http://hackaday.com/2014/04/07/the-raspberry-pi-compute-module/ - for all you rPi hackers!!!
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[20:03] <aadamson> oh and the new sound card for the pi came out recently too
[20:03] Action: nats` takes the flame thrower and burn aadamson
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[20:04] <Laurenceb> hehe nats`
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[20:04] <aadamson> now you have to splain that, why did I get burned :)
[20:04] <aadamson> or flamed
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[20:12] <aadamson> darn it note to self... order some bloody 0ohm resistors next time...
[20:16] <nats`> aadamson you got burn and burried alive because you make apology of Rpi :p
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[20:17] <aadamson> oh, ok...but I use it for a commercial application so that that redeem me... I'm just not a fan of it.. the BBB is a much better platform with much better specifications (IMHO)
[20:18] <aadamson> that that = does that
[20:19] <nats`> I agree what I find really crappy on pi is the CPU and this bloody USB IP
[20:19] <aadamson> well, that and the performance... the TCP/IP performance of the BBB is at least 2x that of the rPi
[20:19] <aadamson> and my application is on the IP side
[20:20] <aadamson> I have about 30 maybe 40 NXDN repeaters all linked up with a small application that runs on the BBB or the rPi
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[20:21] <mfa298> as with all projects the key is using the right tool for the job. For some projects the Pi is the right tool and the compute board will be an even better board. But as with all new shiny things there are a lot of people trying to make the Pi fit when it's not the best tool for what they need
[20:21] <Laurenceb> does BBB have a decent camera?
[20:23] <aadamson> I have no idea...
[20:23] <aadamson> but would you really consider the picam to be *descent*?
[20:23] <craag> It certainly descends! I can attest to that..
[20:23] <aadamson> seems you'd be better off running a *good* camera of usb or something like that
[20:24] Nick change: qbit_ -> qbit
[20:24] <aadamson> ah, but then again, that's another weakness of the rPi, it's usb implementation.
[20:24] <mfa298> compared to other cheap camera modules (webcams) the PiCam is decent although it's not as good as as point and shoot or DSLR
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[20:25] <aadamson> well there is the *easy* factor :)
[20:25] <mikestir> presumably there's no reason why you couldn't take another, larger sensor and put it behind a bigger lens. I'm surprised no one has started selling that yet
[20:25] <Willdude123_> eroomde, it seems upon some reading that The Fall may well have just been an attack on Sartre.
[20:26] <mfa298> I think you're ilmited on sensors as you need a suitable firmware blob for each sensor
[20:26] <mikestir> do they not even let you at the sensor interface?
[20:26] <aadamson> just illustratively... I'm not a big video nut - http://derekmolloy.ie/beaglebone/beaglebone-video-capture-and-image-processing-on-embedded-linux-using-opencv/
[20:26] <mfa298> but theres a fair bit out there about changing the optics on the PiCam to make it more useful
[20:26] <mikestir> there's some kind of V4L2 support now
[20:27] <aadamson> and it seems there are HD camera modules for the BBB
[20:27] <aadamson> bunch of capes as they call them
[20:27] <mfa298> the PiCam goes over the CSI bus and I think all the debayer stuff happens on the GPU in the closed firmware blob
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[20:35] <SpeedEvil> Which implies that you can't swap the camera.
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> (as indeed you can't.)
[20:35] <SpeedEvil> Nor can you use the DSI bus - the display inteface.
[20:36] <LeoBodnar> what a beautiful open system
[20:37] <mfa298> maybe if broadcom open stuff up even more it will be possible - although I did see some stuff that they want to keep parts a bit more closed so that you dont get cheap chinese clones (as I think there are some cheap camera clones)
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[20:37] <nats`> mfa298 BCM can't open all the data
[20:37] <nats`> they don't own all the IP in this chip
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> JHowever, there is no good reasonthey can't make a flexible camera driver
[20:39] <mfa298> SpeedEvil: from some of the reading I've done (mostly about using the raw bayer data) I think it's very hard to do a flexible gpu blob due to the number of things it has to do.
[20:40] <mfa298> debayer, correcting the colour balance, adjusting for the lense/sensor - all of which is camera specific
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[20:42] <mikestir> it's not that hard - we had one for a chip I once wrote a linux stack for
[20:42] <mikestir> you're right it's all sensor specific though
[20:43] <mikestir> there are plenty of sensors with integrated debayer though
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> It's basically more like an ethernet driver, rather than a simple tcp/ip thing to connect to one port
[20:43] <mfa298> and for the Pi that's all done in the GPU which has advantages (fast) and disadvantages (closed blob)
[20:44] <nats`> other way is to do a wrapper and publishing an atomic API
[20:44] <nats`> I mean with basic action
[20:44] <mikestir> on the chip I did it on we did it the same way - proprietary blob on the DSP
[20:44] <mikestir> but the knobs to turn were exported via the API
[20:44] <bertrik_> v4l is awful IMHO, "everything is an ioctl"
[20:44] <mikestir> you DMAed it the bayer, it DMAed you back the YUV
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[20:48] <Laurenceb> i guess usb2 has a pretty high theoretical throughput
[20:48] <Laurenceb> if the drivers are there it might be good enough on BB for a decent webcam
[20:48] <Laurenceb> *BBB
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[21:05] <SpeedEvil> http://www.minnowboard.org/faq-minnowboard-max/ USB3
[21:05] <SpeedEvil> (but not for several months)
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[22:31] <amell> https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/nest-protect-teardown/all
[22:31] <amell> Interesting bunch of sensors
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[22:50] <cm13g09> Patchety patch patch patch....
[22:50] <cm13g09> (yay for software having bugs :P
[22:51] <adamgreig> cri cri cri
[22:51] <adamgreig> patching is the least of it
[22:51] <adamgreig> hope you have a fast ca
[22:52] <cm13g09> adamgreig: that's gonna have to be tomorrow's job
[22:52] <cm13g09> and no is the short answer
[22:52] <cm13g09> 24-48 hours MINIMUM turnaround on a new cert
[22:52] <adamgreig> when they're not currently doing the same for every other customer
[22:53] <cm13g09> (and you have to pay full whack as well!)
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[22:53] <adamgreig> so terrible it's hilarious
[22:53] <cm13g09> adamgreig: the bit that annoys me is that I only renewed the cert 2 months ago
[22:53] <cm13g09> for 2 years....
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[22:53] <cm13g09> and now I have to pay AGAIN
[22:53] <cm13g09> for a new one
[22:54] <cm13g09> apparently
[22:55] <cm13g09> right - time to sleep methinks
[22:55] <cm13g09> got 30+ boxes to deal with in the office tomorrow
[22:55] <cm13g09> unless my boss has been at them tonight
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[23:01] <adamgreig> I'd turn off all the ssl services first
[23:01] <adamgreig> sigh
[23:02] <adamgreig> restarting weechat because it's using old openssl to talk to irc, lol
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[00:00] --- Tue Apr 8 2014