highaltitude.log.20140406

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[00:15] <DL7AD_mobile> Morning
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[07:27] <redondounion> yo
[07:27] <redondounion> anyone here?
[07:28] <eroomde> always
[07:28] <eroomde> night watch yo
[07:28] <redondounion> cool
[07:28] <x-f> sup yo
[07:28] <redondounion> how's the weather doing my brothers
[07:28] <eroomde> rubbish here
[07:29] <redondounion> im in the states right now
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[07:29] <redondounion> lets play a game
[07:30] <redondounion> called NUMBERWANG
[07:30] <eroomde> isn't this how Saw starts?
[07:30] <redondounion> say a number, and ill let you know if you win
[07:31] <eroomde> that's a silly game
[07:31] <x-f> what's the prize?
[07:31] <redondounion> sorry, thats not a number
[07:31] <redondounion> the prize is i will call you a winner
[07:31] <Upu> lets play another game its called stay on topic please
[07:31] <Upu> mornig all
[07:32] <x-f> morning
[07:32] <redondounion> its night where i am
[07:33] <redondounion> anyway, i came here for advice. my clubs launching a balloon in May and i was just wondering if you can help a rookie group out
[07:33] <redondounion> please
[07:34] <Upu> sure we can
[07:34] <Upu> in the States you say ?
[07:34] <redondounion> yeah
[07:34] <Upu> anyone with a radio amateur license ?
[07:34] <redondounion> nope
[07:35] <eroomde> i don't actually know that the deal is in the US for unlicensed operation
[07:35] <eroomde> apart form like 900MHz
[07:35] <redondounion> i bought these though https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9411
[07:36] <eroomde> i don't recall exactly but i think Nate from SF had some trouble keeping a decent lock on them for the whole flight when he used them
[07:36] <eroomde> stilldavid, who is in here, is an sparkfunner who got Nate involved and has done several habs himself, and might still be awake, so he could be the guy to ask
[07:37] <redondounion> ok
[07:37] <redondounion> STILLDAVID ARE YOU AWAKE
[07:37] <redondounion> sorry for shouting, just wanted him to hear me
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[07:37] <redondounion> that you stilldavid?
[07:38] <eroomde> it being a staurday night in the US, he might be aout being social
[07:39] <redondounion> its one o clock AM where he is, so he might be asleep i guess
[07:40] <eroomde> well, i think the concensus was that they weren't as solid a telemetry link as a more typical ham radio setup
[07:40] <redondounion> yeah i regret my decision buying those
[07:40] <redondounion> i shouldve broke the law
[07:41] <eroomde> or just got a technician class license - I believe it's pretty easy
[07:41] <redondounion> i already bought the radios
[07:42] <steve_2e0vet> morning
[07:42] <redondounion> hi
[07:42] <eroomde> well, give them a whirl
[07:42] <eroomde> what's the worst that can happen
[07:42] <eroomde> i'd go for a fast ascending flight with a fairly low burst altitude
[07:43] <redondounion> i suppose so
[07:43] <redondounion> thanks
[07:43] <eroomde> just to hopefully stop them getting too far away from you
[07:43] <redondounion> is that a problem in the UK because of the water?
[07:44] <redondounion> lots of land here in america
[07:44] <eroomde> yes, though in your case i was suggesting it more for the radio range
[07:45] <redondounion> oh
[07:45] <redondounion> i was going to follow it with my car
[07:45] <eroomde> sure, but you still might be of the order of 50 miles away at times
[07:46] <eroomde> to put the ham solution into perspective, we use 10mW of Transmitter power on 434MHz, and can routinely get ranges of 400km quite clearly, and the record is up at 700ishkm
[07:46] <redondounion> damn
[07:46] <redondounion> i need the ham
[07:47] <eroomde> it makes a lot of sense
[07:47] <eroomde> try the zigbees for the first flight - you've got them now - but i'd keep everything conservative
[07:47] <eroomde> then it'd be worth getting the tech license
[07:47] <redondounion> alright
[07:48] <redondounion> any suggestions for balloons?
[07:50] <eroomde> what's the payload mass?
[07:51] <eroomde> though for the first flight, i might keep it low, like a 100g balloon
[07:51] <eroomde> and just go up a few miles
[07:51] <redondounion> 7 pounds
[07:51] <eroomde> that's quite heavy
[07:51] <eroomde> you'll probably need something bigger
[07:51] <redondounion> we plan on putting ice cream on it and eat it afterwards
[07:51] <eroomde> what are you flying on the payload?
[07:51] <eroomde> ah cool
[07:51] <eroomde> ok
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[07:51] <eroomde> that explans it
[07:51] <redondounion> lol
[07:52] <eroomde> well, maybe a balloon like 800g or something?
[07:52] <eroomde> and shoot for a fairly fast ascent rate, maybe 5m/s (15fps)
[07:53] <redondounion> http://www.amazon.com/30ft-Professional-Weather-Balloon-1200g/dp/B00513FWQI/ref=pd_sim_hi_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0NXWF7MN99QW84ZYWPE0
[07:53] <SIbot> In real units: 30 ft = 9.14 m
[07:53] <redondounion> this is about the 7 lbs
[07:53] <SIbot> In real units: 7 lbs = 3.2 kg
[07:53] <eroomde> that's fairly big
[07:53] <eroomde> i am worried about your radios
[07:53] <eroomde> i'd go for something like a 600g balloon
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[07:54] <eroomde> with 5m/s ascent rate, that should get you to an altitude of about 20km
[07:54] <redondounion> thats like 10 miles
[07:54] <eroomde> 12
[07:54] <eroomde> you can use this
[07:54] <eroomde> http://habhub.org/calc/
[07:54] <eroomde> that thing you linked to is a kaymont 1200g
[07:54] <redondounion> what about this? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004RK2RAU/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2C0B4PGAFXTRE
[07:54] <eroomde> yeah that'd be the one
[07:55] <redondounion> it will still go as high
[07:55] <eroomde> you can plug the numbers in to that calculator to see either your burst altitude given a certain ascent rate
[07:55] <eroomde> or your ascent rate given a certain burst altitude
[07:55] <eroomde> it will go as high?
[07:55] <eroomde> oh those are PAWAN balloons, not kaymont
[07:56] <redondounion> yup
[07:56] <eroomde> well the numbers should be closeish with the calculator
[07:57] <eroomde> i don't understand what you mean by it'll go as high - which balloon will go as high as which other balloon?
[07:57] <redondounion> i see what you mean
[07:57] <redondounion> i screw up
[07:57] <redondounion> with the calc
[08:01] <redondounion> hey sibot, what how many kilograms is 1000 lbs
[08:01] <SIbot> In real units: 1000 lbs = 453.6 kg
[08:01] <redondounion> thanks
[08:02] <redondounion> how about 20 mi to kilometers, sibot?
[08:02] <redondounion> oh you dont do miles?
[08:02] <redondounion> ok, fine
[08:02] <eroomde> 20 miles
[08:02] <eroomde> hmm nope
[08:02] <eroomde> i think she just understands feet and lbs
[08:03] <redondounion> its a she
[08:03] <eroomde> yep
[08:03] <x-f> craag said, she ignores miles, because you still use those in the UK
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[08:03] <redondounion> i thought all program's genders were in an undefined state
[08:03] <eroomde> that's true
[08:04] <eroomde> redondounion: depends on how you initialise them
[08:04] <redondounion> oh snap your name is red now
[08:04] <redondounion> red is my favorite color
[08:04] <eroomde> because i mentioend you, probably
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[08:04] <Upu> wtf is that person doing filling that balloon with a leaf blower
[08:05] <redondounion> can you do it again?
[08:05] <redondounion> the red stuff
[08:05] <eroomde> presumably just a size demo
[08:06] <redondounion> no, you must do it
[08:06] <redondounion> for my sake
[08:06] <redondounion> pretty please
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[08:09] <redondounion> you're killing me here
[08:09] <redondounion> i need that red
[08:09] <eroomde> i can put a pretty little '"' symbol infront of my name too
[08:09] #highaltitude: mode change '+o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[08:09] <eroomde> @ symbol, even
[08:09] <eroomde> can't be dealing with these mac keyboards
[08:09] <redondounion> wtf just happened
[08:10] <eroomde> all the keys are in the wrong place
[08:10] <redondounion> i still want that red
[08:10] Upu (~Upu@2a00:14f0:e028:0:49d2:64af:688d:8889) left irc:
[08:10] <redondounion> red red red
[08:10] <eroomde> no
[08:10] <eroomde> any more hab queries?
[08:11] <redondounion> hold on maybe this will work
[08:11] <redondounion> redondounion: hi
[08:11] <redondounion> nope
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[08:11] <redondounion> welcome back
[08:11] <redondounion> can you say my name please?
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[08:13] <redondounion> yo herman
[08:13] <Herman-PB0AHX> good morning
[08:13] <redondounion> can you say my username please
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[08:14] <Herman-PB0AHX> redondounion: ?
[08:14] <redondounion> YES
[08:14] <redondounion> OH GOD
[08:14] <redondounion> again
[08:14] <fsphil> that's kind of annoying
[08:14] <eroomde> it is
[08:14] <redondounion> one more time and i promise ill leave
[08:15] <Upu> suggest you stop it or you'll have no choice in the matter
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[08:15] <redondounion> not if i leave before you ban me!
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[08:16] <eroomde> alas
[08:17] <fsphil> anyway, morning all
[08:17] #highaltitude: mode change '-o eroomde' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[08:17] <ibanezmatt13> morning :)
[08:17] <eroomde> morning
[08:17] <daveake> morning
[08:17] Action: DanielRichman notes that one needn't be present in the channel to be banned :P
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[08:17] <eroomde> yes i thought that :)
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[08:20] <Herman-PB0AHX> fsphil: morning from netherlands
[08:20] <eroomde> weather as miserable there as it is here Herman-PB0AHX ?
[08:21] <cm13g09> morning - just read the scrollback
[08:21] <craag> eroomde: This is why POP/ASTRA came down so fast yesterday: http://i.imgur.com/OacZ7fV.jpg
[08:21] <eroomde> yeah i saw
[08:21] <Herman-PB0AHX> eroomde: weather here also bad it is raining now
[08:21] <eroomde> ouch!
[08:22] <cm13g09> eroomde: Clearly somebody hasn't yet learned the IRC attitude
[08:22] <craag> Completely smashed the payload boxes as well!
[08:22] <eroomde> not surprised!
[08:22] <cm13g09> craag: OUCH
[08:22] <eroomde> it really was coming in hot
[08:22] <eroomde> maybe steve can seel a few of his bangboxes
[08:22] <number10> thats a bit of a mess
[08:22] <craag> We'll look at cutdowns for next time
[08:22] <eroomde> and make pyros regain their rightful place the the right way of separating cables
[08:23] <daveake> I got some pyro stuff yesterday for that
[08:23] Action: cm13g09 has contacts at pyrotechnics companies... sometimes I wish I didn't :P
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> the other week, we targeted 3.9m/s final descent rate and got 6.5, a lot of latex was also recovered
[08:25] <eroomde> there is a gap for a good metron-based pyro release mechanism
[08:26] <eroomde> as that would alleviate the fears of those who get a bit jumpy about diy pyros
[08:26] <craag> metron?
[08:26] <LeoBodnar> morning *
[08:26] <cm13g09> morning LeoBodna
[08:26] <Herman-PB0AHX> morning Leo
[08:26] <cm13g09> *morning LeoBodnar
[08:26] <craag> Morning cm13g09 !
[08:27] <cm13g09> morning craag
[08:27] <cm13g09> you're up promptly this morning
[08:27] <LeoBodnar> highlights from Upu and daveake Friday launch
[08:27] <LeoBodnar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uArr8e4gTes
[08:27] <daveake> literally high lights?
[08:27] <craag> cm13g09: I've been up all night with work again :/ But now the sun is up I can't sleep!
[08:28] <cm13g09> :(
[08:28] <cm13g09> this isn't good :(
[08:28] <LeoBodnar> you overpunned me Dave
[08:29] <cm13g09> LeoBodnar: I'm not sure anything is quite as bad as a local radio station ( mfa298, craag, mattbrejza may be able to guess which one)
[08:29] <fsphil> a rising star in the HAB world
[08:29] <LeoBodnar> thanks for hospitality!
[08:30] <daveake> it led to great heights
[08:30] <fsphil> flash of inspiration there
[08:30] <daveake> not as great as we hoped, though
[08:31] <fsphil> that payload was really getting shaken about by having the beacon below it
[08:31] <fsphil> may have been mechanical failure
[08:36] <malgar> zou could trz to transmit data through led :P
[08:36] <malgar> you
[08:36] <malgar> try
[08:36] <malgar> :P
[08:36] <fsphil> already on the todo list :)
[08:36] <craag> ASK rtty :)
[08:36] <LeoBodnar> fsphil: payload and beacon were the same package
[08:37] <craag> or OOK strictly I guess
[08:37] <LeoBodnar> beacon is 5g in weight including battery
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[08:37] <fsphil> what was above the payload? the chute?
[08:38] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[08:38] <craag> Or you could do two different colours for true FSK rtty. Just up in the THz range!
[08:38] <LeoBodnar> my guess is that the line was unwinding releasing tension
[08:40] <fsphil> I did the ask rtty with a tiny led
[08:40] <fsphil> just pwm'ed it with two different frequencies
[08:40] <fsphil> receiver was a solar panel plugged into the mic input socket
[08:40] <LeoBodnar> it will melt down perhaps
[08:41] <fsphil> worked well but the range was about 15cm :)
[08:41] <gonzo___> the capacitance of the pv is the limiting factor
[08:41] <craag> fsphil: You'd manage a lot more with a fresnel lens and a simple photodiode I think
[08:41] <fsphil> indeed
[08:41] <fsphil> I got a couple of fresnel lens here now
[08:41] <fsphil> but I need a better sensor
[08:42] <craag> 15cm is really quite impressive for a PV panel receiver!
[08:42] <fsphil> they're really that bad?
[08:42] <gonzo___> tyou would loose a lot in the low pass action of the panel/mic input
[08:42] <craag> The capacitance on them is quite high I thought
[08:42] <fsphil> I'll get a photodiode then.. I guess that's not as simple to wire up?
[08:42] <craag> and LEDs don't produce very much light (I don't know how strong your LED was)
[08:42] <gonzo___> a popular sys
[08:43] <fsphil> it really wasn't bright at all
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[08:43] <gonzo___> tem is a 4" lens from one of those desk mangifiers
[08:43] <fsphil> just the first led I had handy
[08:44] <gonzo___> the lenses fit in some of that light brown plastic soil pipe
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[08:45] <craag> Reverse bias the photodiode and the current will be proportional to the light intensity iirc
[08:45] <fsphil> just reading that yea
[08:45] <LeoBodnar> phototransistor works very well
[08:46] <craag> So give it a series resistor and hook it up to an opamp for sensitivity.
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[08:46] <fsphil> I'll try that later, I'm sure I have a photodiode in by parts bin. finding it will be the trick
[08:46] <LeoBodnar> it might be easier to use logarithmic opamp
[08:47] <fsphil> the signal would be taken from either side of the shunt resistor yea?
[08:47] <gonzo___> http://modulatedlight.org/optical_comms/optical_index.html
[08:47] <fsphil> oooh I used an electronics term
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[08:47] <craag> LeoBodnar: Never heard of those... cool little circuit!
[08:48] <craag> I've done 2 modules on opamps and they weren't mentioned - gonna have to change my Student Survey answers..
[08:48] <fsphil> hah that is cute
[08:49] <eroomde> log amps are the best
[08:49] <eroomde> a great RSSI A2D
[08:49] <eroomde> er, adc
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[08:49] <eroomde> i find it really really exciting that you can make an opamp equiavlent of most mathematical operations
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[08:54] <steve_2e0vet> how long does it take a ublox 6 to get sat lock
[08:55] <craag> steve_2e0vet: Should get it within a couple of minutes with a clear view of the sky
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[08:56] <steve_2e0vet> you say clear view, is that of the sky or of sats, i find differening results depending if i am north facing or south facing....
[08:57] <craag> Hmm interesting - I thought the constellation was consistent.
[08:57] <craag> Does south-facing work better?
[08:58] <steve_2e0vet> yes a lot better
[08:58] <craag> But to answer your question - the sky in general. The lower it can see to the horizon on all sides, the faster it'll get a lock.
[08:59] <craag> How long does it take north vs south?
[09:00] <steve_2e0vet> sometimes north doesnt even get a lock. i cannot remember the last time it did. that said my car is north facing and the sat nav always gets a lock
[09:00] <eroomde> craag: yep, constellation is much better south
[09:00] <eroomde> infact in the poles, using gps can be harder, as often noething gets above some number of degrees of elevation
[09:00] <eroomde> i forget exactly
[09:00] <eroomde> but the coverage is much lower
[09:01] <craag> Ah ok
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[09:01] <eroomde> but it shouldn't make a huge diff at 50ish latitude here
[09:02] <craag> The sat nav probably has a gps backup batt/supercap in that'll help a lot.
[09:03] <steve_2e0vet> argh yes never thought of that
[09:03] <steve_2e0vet> its just a bit annoying having to go into the back garden to do testing
[09:03] <LeoBodnar> wth is happening with modern CS? launching Firefox with a single empty tab: 140MB RAM
[09:03] <eroomde> close enough
[09:04] <eroomde> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=97
[09:04] <eroomde> i was gonna get one of these to put on the roof of the lab
[09:04] <eroomde> to get gps into the lab easily
[09:04] <craag> mattbrejza: Should we campaign labs to get one of these? ^^
[09:04] <eroomde> might be worth considering
[09:04] <craag> grrr shielded windows and metal building
[09:04] <steve_2e0vet> thats the sort of thing i eed
[09:05] <eroomde> yeah
[09:05] <eroomde> especially as our lab windows after safety glass
[09:05] <eroomde> for added attenuation
[09:05] <eroomde> are safety glass*
[09:06] <LeoBodnar> just do your own QC eroomde http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/IMG_1803.jpg
[09:06] <eroomde> lol
[09:06] <eroomde> at that right i might aswell do my own antenna
[09:06] <eroomde> rate*
[09:06] <craag> Is that one of anthonys?
[09:07] <LeoBodnar> to be fair it was faulty from the beginning and he screened it out
[09:07] <LeoBodnar> GND point success rate 33%
[09:07] <craag> :/
[09:08] <LeoBodnar> why the heck they wouln'd just use bigger PCB?! :/
[09:08] <LeoBodnar> it's cheaper to use tin can lid with a hole to make up GP
[09:11] <eroomde> dried apricots really do work as advertised. scary
[09:12] <eroomde> also the problem with trying to isolate test cases in mircos that involve blinking LEDs for debug is that they emphasise how life is ticking away
[09:13] <steve_2e0vet> gps been south facing for 30 mins still no sats
[09:13] <eroomde> something is wrong with something somewhere
[09:13] <eroomde> what's the antenna?
[09:13] <steve_2e0vet> ublox6 with sarentel
[09:14] <eroomde> is there any reverse polarity SMA annoyance?
[09:14] <eroomde> oh
[09:14] <eroomde> hmm
[09:14] <eroomde> remove power the the gps
[09:14] <eroomde> get a multimeter
[09:14] <steve_2e0vet> just got it on a breadboard with a simple script
[09:14] <eroomde> see if there's continuity between the inner sarantel contact and the outer pair
[09:14] <steve_2e0vet> ok
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[09:14] <eroomde> there should be
[09:14] <eroomde> if there isn't, your sarantel is dead
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[09:15] <steve_2e0vet> yes there is
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[09:16] <eroomde> ok, snot that then
[09:18] <eroomde> there are commands you can use to ask it about sattelite signal strengths and so on
[09:18] <eroomde> but i beleive in windows there's that ublox software that automatically does all that
[09:18] <steve_2e0vet> is there a simple arduino sketch that will print out the $GPxx codes
[09:18] <eroomde> might be worth installing that and seeing if it says anyhting
[09:20] <craag> ucenter
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[09:21] <craag> number10: Well done on getting a couple of POPEYE packets on the ground yesterday!
[09:22] <number10> its a shame that I didnt have the ssdv setup earlier as I think I would have got a complete picture craag
[09:23] <craag> Oh well, we got some great pics down from altitude, and I've got all the 1080p images now.
[09:24] <number10> I think thats probably the 4th payload that has landed near enough to my house be able to receive after landed
[09:24] <number10> some of the pictures looked good
[09:24] <craag> You're well placed :)
[09:25] <steve_2e0vet> just installed this http://ava.upuaut.net/store/wiki/doku.php?id=frontpage:levelconvertor but it keeps failing on trying to set NAV mode
[09:26] <craag> steve_2e0vet: Have you got an FTDI cable handy?
[09:26] <steve_2e0vet> yes
[09:27] <steve_2e0vet> i am using the hardware serial version
[09:27] <craag> You can plug the GPS straight into the PC and use ublox ucenter
[09:27] <steve_2e0vet> ive got ucenter on the lappy
[09:27] <craag> Cool, that'll give you a bit more diagnostics
[09:28] <steve_2e0vet> back in bit, crying baby to sort
[09:29] <craag> Sure, not sure I know of any software to help with that :P
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[09:42] <steve_2e0vet> will a ublox send serial data without having a lock
[09:42] <craag> Yes
[09:42] <craag> ucenter will show info on the number of sats, and strengths even without lock.
[09:44] <steve_2e0vet> cannot take laptop outside yet - raining
[09:45] <steve_2e0vet> ive managed to set the nav mode and turn sentences off, wasnt sure if $GPxx sentenances were sent to the serial port even inside (my garage)
[09:50] <eroomde> those big 64L Really Useful Boxes are good for leaving laptop + electronics outside
[09:50] <eroomde> in bad weather
[09:51] <eroomde> say you want to leave the payload outside to log its current or whatever
[09:51] <steve_2e0vet> oh yeah, ive loads of them
[09:51] <eroomde> they're great
[09:51] <eroomde> i have a bit of an obsession with them
[09:52] <steve_2e0vet> ok. if i can at least get the time while its at the window i'll be happy but its not looking hopefull
[09:52] <steve_2e0vet> i do prefer the smaller ones for components
[09:52] <steve_2e0vet> i dont think i could go as far as "obsession"
[09:53] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nwq2vubb4nml3g/2013-05-21%2020.19.33.jpg
[09:53] <eroomde> see the racking on the left
[09:53] <steve_2e0vet> lol
[09:53] <craag> That's a tidy lab!
[09:54] <eroomde> i took the photo just after tidying it
[09:54] <eroomde> it doesn't look like that atm
[09:54] <eroomde> i am in it right now :)
[09:54] <steve_2e0vet> i was just going to say that.... luckily i cannot find a phone to take a picture of mine. I can just about find the keyboard
[09:54] <steve_2e0vet> i carnt see you
[09:56] <eroomde> i canni take a pic of what's in it currently as it's work stuff, but it's usually in the throes working on something or other
[09:56] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2mdzhyx5j9s5yv/2013-05-18%2016.47.09.jpg
[09:57] <eroomde> debugging circuits reminds me slightly of surgery on a patient
[09:58] <craag> what patient was this??!
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> wut? R&S bought Hameg?
[09:58] <craag> :P
[09:59] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: yep
[09:59] <eroomde> a couple of years ago
[10:00] <eroomde> they are doing a lot of the design now
[10:00] <eroomde> that scope was a loaner
[10:00] <eroomde> but we got the 400MHz version
[10:00] <eroomde> it's really very good
[10:00] <eroomde> hameg is R&S's value range now
[10:01] <eroomde> that's why i've been pushing the new hameg lab PSUs - they're really well designed and the specs are actually testably correct
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> i can imagine Keyshite is ogling Rigol
[10:03] <eroomde> i thought they owned them anyway
[10:03] <eroomde> the low end agilents were made by rigol under contract at least
[10:04] <eroomde> but srsly, worth having a look at the hameg stuff next time you're in the market for something - it's well made now, and you get all the advantages from the R&S rep you normally do
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> cool! thanks, i did not know
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> last time i looked at them was when they were still independendt
[10:04] <eroomde> yeah
[10:05] <eroomde> we have their HM7042-5 bench PSU
[10:05] <eroomde> use it almost every day
[10:05] <eroomde> performance is nice
[10:06] <eroomde> it has a slightly bigger brother PSU that can do sinking an high power AWB, which is interesting
[10:06] <LeoBodnar> Sunday morning cermon... "The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." - Prof. Al Bartlett http://www.albartlett.org/
[10:06] <craag> Is that the one that phil picked up off ebay?
[10:06] <eroomde> aswell as AWB it has an external modulating input with decent bandwidth
[10:06] <eroomde> i don't think phil got it from ebay
[10:06] <eroomde> but yes
[10:07] <craag> Ah ok
[10:08] <LeoBodnar> does HM7042-5 have encoders or multiturn pots?
[10:09] <eroomde> encoders
[10:09] <eroomde> course and fine
[10:09] <eroomde> no i talk BS
[10:09] <eroomde> pots
[10:09] <eroomde> course and fine
[10:09] <eroomde> coarse*
[10:09] <eroomde> i thought i'd prefer a 10-turn but actually i really don't mind then coarse and fine - it's very quick
[10:10] <eroomde> one annoying thing is that the opuput terminals are spaced wider than 0.75"
[10:11] <eroomde> so they don't work with those banana-to-bnc adaptors
[10:12] <LeoBodnar> ok good info thanks
[10:13] <eroomde> but i'm basically v happy with it. it's the one i go to for 90% of stuff
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[10:19] Action: cm13g09 forgot how long it takes to apt-get update/apt-get upgrade a RasPi
[10:22] <eroomde> at least it's not building from source
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[10:24] Action: mikestir has horrible flashbacks of "emerge world"
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[10:42] <fsphil> gentoo is still around. don't hear about that as often anymore
[10:47] <eroomde> i kinda want a pizza to help with my hacking
[10:47] <fsphil> it's a bit early for pizza
[10:48] <eroomde> deominos don't like deliverying to spots in the bowels of old government sites
[10:48] <fsphil> that's an after 5pm food
[10:48] <eroomde> yeah but
[10:48] <eroomde> i'm just hungry
[10:48] <eroomde> it feels like the afternoon
[10:48] <eroomde> note even lunch
[10:48] <eroomde> is that progress?
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[10:57] <Willdude123> Is it weird I had a dream about surface mount soldering?
[10:57] <eroomde> no
[10:57] <Willdude123> It's scary
[10:58] <Willdude123> Why can't we all just have reflow ovens?
[10:59] <LeoBodnar> we do
[10:59] <fsphil> I do :p
[10:59] <eroomde> i do
[10:59] <fsphil> it also makes toast
[10:59] <Upu> you don't have a reflow oven ?
[10:59] <fsphil> and goes ding
[10:59] <Upu> kids today
[11:01] <Willdude123> Upu: I hear they are uber expensibe
[11:01] <eroomde> £25
[11:02] <Willdude123> Oh, toastere
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[11:07] <Willdude123> Will I have to fit relays or expensive devices?
[11:08] <eroomde> you don't have to
[11:08] <eroomde> you can do it by eye
[11:09] <eroomde> but if you are using it with any regularity it'd be worthing buying a controller
[11:11] <Willdude123> It'd be worth a try
[11:11] <LeoBodnar> you can't make it up... "Apple is the technology company leading the way in terms of creating a greener, more sustainable internet, while Amazon has far to go, says Greenpeace"
[11:11] <Willdude123> Upu: so I take it you don't solder the ublox boards by hand?
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[11:12] <Upu> some
[11:12] <Upu> mostly oven now
[11:14] <Willdude123> Is it OK to reflow solder on an already mostly populated board?
[11:15] <eroomde> not really
[11:15] <eroomde> the flux boils off, so soldering is kind a once-only thing
[11:15] <eroomde> i mean you can ofcourse rework stuff
[11:15] <eroomde> but i wouldn;t do it by design
[11:15] <eroomde> just for fixes
[11:16] <Willdude123> I see, so I'd have to desolder the NTX2. Oh crap, I'd have to desolder the NTX2
[11:17] <eroomde> if it's a pinch, just add some flex with a flux pen
[11:18] <eroomde> but by convention i normally reflow all the smd stuff first
[11:18] <eroomde> and do the pth stuff last
[11:20] <Willdude123> eroomde: I see. Time to get a toaster
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[11:37] Action: Willdude123 tries to find a video on how to do it
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[11:37] <eroomde> pre-heat to 150C for 3 minutes
[11:37] <eroomde> then turn it up to 250C until you see it reflow
[11:37] <eroomde> keep it there for maybe 20s or so
[11:38] <eroomde> then back down to 150 for a minute
[11:38] <eroomde> then turn off and leave to cool in the oven
[11:38] <jeffewil> Hi, Can anyone help me with configuration sequences for a Ublox GPS module
[11:38] <eroomde> better to ask the question than ask someone in advance to enter a contract into helping
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[11:38] <craag> eroomde: Is that air temp, or board temp?
[11:38] <eroomde> if someone can/wants to answer the question, they will
[11:39] <eroomde> craag: that's oven setting
[11:39] <eroomde> of course a thermocouple would be better
[11:39] <eroomde> on a bit of pcb
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[11:39] <craag> Ok cheers
[11:40] <eroomde> if you're hoping for a different set of people today who will give advice other than read the receiver description protocol datasheet, you might be in for a bad time
[11:40] <eroomde> but maybe have a look at the habduino code
[11:40] <eroomde> zeusbot is hopeless atm
[11:41] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:ublox6
[11:41] <jeffewil> No contract required! I understand how to issue the commands to the chip and the commands I would like to make but am unsure of the syntax. For example what byte would I send as part of the CFG-NAV5 to activate "Airborne with less than 2g" Jcoxon's code seems to imply sending 0xFF which makes no sense to me
[11:41] <eroomde> https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino/blob/master/Software/habduino/habduino.ino
[11:41] <daveake> and http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:falcom_fsa03
[11:42] <eroomde> i can't remember if that's ublox 6/7
[11:42] <jeffewil> thanks - I'll have a look....
[11:42] <daveake> and google for the ublox manual
[11:42] <daveake> fsa03 was 5 and the fsa03 was 6
[11:42] <daveake> er
[11:42] <daveake> fsa03lp was 6
[11:42] <eroomde> iirc jeffewil is using a 7
[11:43] <daveake> I'm stil using the same commands
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[11:43] <DL7AD> hi
[11:43] <eroomde> i'm not saying jcoxon's code is right or wrong, just remember that this is a community of largely amateurs, and giving equal weight to what some code you found somewhere says vs what the datahsheet says is, 99.9% of the time, the wrong thing to do
[11:44] <eroomde> tho it might be a hint that you're misinterpretting the datahseet
[11:44] <eroomde> but basically just rely on the datasheet
[11:44] <daveake> indeed
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[11:44] <Upu> if you want to understand I strongly suggest you download the u-Center
[11:44] <Upu> as it tells you exactly what commands its sending
[11:44] <jeffewil> Have read the data sheet, and agree I'm probably missing something - particularly the bit that references the code for various configuations - the syntax it sits in is fine
[11:45] <eroomde> that's not a bad idea
[11:45] <Upu> but the code is the same for the 5, 6 or 7
[11:45] <eroomde> i have never actually used ucenter before
[11:45] <Upu> and it is correct
[11:45] <jeffewil> I'lll have a look at that too..
[11:45] <amell> FFS, i had my L1 rocket ready for EARS today. all ready to go, and malc left my motors at home.
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[11:46] <Upu> people seem to misinterpret the documentation
[11:46] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/u-blox7-V14_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_Public_%28GPS.G7-SW-12001%29.pdf
[11:46] <amell> complete fking waste of time.
[11:46] <eroomde> i do wonder if malc is losing it a bit
[11:46] <amell> never again am i paying him in advance
[11:46] <eroomde> get a licensed store
[11:46] <eroomde> perhaps
[11:46] <Upu> you need to be in Airborne <1g mode
[11:47] <eroomde> and make quarterly drives to crawley
[11:47] <amell> crawley?
[11:47] <eroomde> where malc lives
[11:47] <eroomde> i used to go there to pick up stuff from him
[11:47] <eroomde> to remove him remembering to pack stuff from the critical path
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[11:50] <jeffewil> ok so I understand that code - but how does the 7th byte refer to Airborne 1g mode?
[11:50] <jeffewil> 7th byte being 0xFF
[11:53] <daveake> you need the manual for that stuff
[11:54] <jeffewil> got it but apparently not clever enough!
[11:54] <jeffewil> Think I must be missing something pretty fundamental
[11:54] <LeoBodnar> craag: in IR oven air temperature is irrelevant
[11:55] <LeoBodnar> just like you can get sunburnt at -10C
[11:57] <daveake> P107 and on of https://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/u-blox7-V14_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_Public_%28GPS.G7-SW-12001%29.pdf
[11:57] <daveake> that describes the command in intimate detail
[11:57] <daveake> byte offset 2 is the flight mode
[12:00] <jeffewil> Thanks daveake , ok so in the initialisation byte 2 is 0xFF, how does that relate to Airborne 1g, how could I specify Airborne 2g if I felt like it?
[12:02] <daveake> The manual tells you all the values. If 0xFF isn't one of them., then either you're counting wrong or the code you have is wrong.
[12:06] <jeffewil> ok - it turns out I can't count. 0xFF is the mask - I think this is an example of not being able to see the wood for the trees - I have checked that 1000 times already! - oh well!! Thanks for your help
[12:07] <daveake> Yeah, I guessed it was that :)
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[12:12] <craag> LeoBodnar: Yeah I was wondering about using a convection toaster oven - looks like there's a few IR ones around though, so one of those and a couple of thermocouples clipped to the pcb sounds the way to go.
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[12:15] <eroomde> jeffewil: you got caught be the 2 bytes for message length?
[12:16] <eroomde> not the first
[12:16] <eroomde> won't be the last
[12:16] <jeffewil> eroomde - that and forgetting about the mask bytes
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[12:17] <craag> Balloon fragments http://i.imgur.com/mcW2na5.png
[12:17] <eroomde> datahseets for all these things require really careful reading
[12:18] <craag> And the rest of the descent pics are blurred and upside down - no surprise there
[12:18] <eroomde> nice
[12:18] <eroomde> didn't look like a very clean burst
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[12:56] <mikestir> Ah always a good laugh when the picaxe forum comes up as a hit for a google search. It's just so brimming with wrong
[12:59] <mikestir> did you know that the correct way to trim a crystal onto frequency is not to adjust the load capacitance, but to take the can off and squeeze the quartz with "something"
[13:00] <ulfr> Heh.
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[13:08] <eroomde> mikestir: i've considered using it as a source of entropy for a random number generator
[13:09] <eroomde> so little information is conveyed
[13:10] <mikestir> some of the electronics advice on there is just so bad it's a wonder anyone starting on picaxe makes it any further
[13:11] <daveake> The only part I've read is the thread complaining about bias here
[13:15] <daveake> Perhaps the mention in http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:selecting_microcontrollers wound them up :)
[13:16] <Upu> Parallax Propeller
[13:16] <Upu> eww. Just use a raspberry pi
[13:16] <Upu> lol
[13:16] <eroomde> mikestir: given all the 'i've been using picaxe for years!' posts, i suspect it does trap those who are not progressors anyway
[13:17] <eroomde> i had not seen the picaxe entry to that wiki page before
[13:17] <eroomde> nice
[13:17] <daveake> nor me
[13:17] <eroomde> i think the propellor advice is a bit confused though
[13:17] <eroomde> the propellor architecture is quite interesting and quite specific
[13:18] <eroomde> i wouldn't use it probably because it hasn't got much market/mind share, but it's not something for which a pi would be a straight swap
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[13:21] <daveake> Here's the thread I mentioned http://www.picaxeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?25322-Suitability-for-High-Altitude-Ballooning
[13:22] <eroomde> yes i read that
[13:22] <eroomde> a lot of confusion
[13:22] <eroomde> people thinking that the objection to picaxe was based on it's ability to handle environmental conditions
[13:23] <eroomde> rather than the fact that it takes a normal microcontroller and makes it 100x slower by running an interpretted language from eeprom
[13:23] <eroomde> and not a nice interpreted language either
[13:23] <daveake> yup
[13:24] <daveake> And apparently the rfm22b is limited to 400km
[13:24] <daveake> Yes well it will be more than that if the earth isn't in the way
[13:24] <eroomde> but the earth is flat daveake, what are you talking about
[13:24] <eroomde> and basic is a fine language
[13:24] Action: daveake checks eroomde's temperature
[13:24] <eroomde> and those people who use ARM don't know what they're talking about
[13:24] <eroomde> i can have 28! variable in my code, twenty eight! beat that
[13:25] <eroomde> and you don't need floating point anyway
[13:25] <daveake> lol
[13:25] <daveake> I interpret sarcasm :)
[13:25] <eroomde> the only interrupts i get are from my social worker
[13:26] <daveake> I'm sure "someone" here was recommending picaxe to HAB beginners. Presumably said someone would be happy to be here 24/7 to answer support questions
[13:26] <Willdude123> eroomde: did I mention that I just started learning about big O notation in my CS course?
[13:26] <eroomde> you didn't, but that's cool
[13:26] <eroomde> all itneresting stuff
[13:27] <Willdude123> I remember you teaching it to me when I was eulering
[13:27] <eroomde> yeah
[13:27] <Willdude123> And to be honest, I didn't really understand it
[13:27] <eroomde> well, i think the key to a good life asa programmer is clever algorithms, simple code
[13:27] <eroomde> and not the other way round
[13:27] <eroomde> so all this stuff you're learning now should help a lot
[13:27] <Willdude123> And beer
[13:27] <eroomde> that helps too
[13:27] <daveake> haha
[13:28] <daveake> I think zeusbot probably had that in its cache
[13:31] <Willdude123> I was thinking, 2D doesn't exist
[13:31] <Willdude123> It can't
[13:31] <eroomde> the dimension?
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[13:36] <Willdude123> eroomde: no, 2d shapes
[13:36] <Willdude123> When you draw something on paper
[13:36] <Willdude123> It's 3D
[13:39] <eroomde> so i can't draw a triangle
[13:39] <eroomde> i can describe one to you
[13:39] <eroomde> i can it's a 3 sided shape whose internal angles sum to 180 degrees, and whos sides are straight lines
[13:39] <eroomde> but if i draw one on a sheet of paper, my lines won't be perfectly straight
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[13:39] <eroomde> the angles wont add up precisely
[13:39] <eroomde> the ink is 3d like you say
[13:40] <eroomde> but you still know what i mean by a triangle
[13:40] <LeoBodnar> can anybody spot Arduino here? http://www.earlyaviators.com/bazzangruppo.jpg
[13:40] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[13:40] <eroomde> and the platonic school of thought on the matter is that there exists an ideal of a triangle
[13:40] <eroomde> abstracted from any 'real' triangle
[13:41] <eroomde> it sort of boils down to what we understand as knowledge, which as a topic is sometimes called epistemology
[13:42] <eroomde> Willdude123: you might enjoy reading Plato's dialogue with Meno
[13:42] <Willdude123> I see
[13:43] <eroomde> especially the dialogue with Meno's slave which is an important thing in the formation of proof
[13:43] <eroomde> but also about whether knoweledge/truth is a universal thing that exists, or if it depends on your upbringing/society/whatever
[13:44] <eroomde> there's a lot of interesting early natural philosophy in it anyway, and if you're starting to grapple with these questions you'll probably get something from it
[13:44] <LeoBodnar> the only worthwhile Arduino http://www.earlyaviators.com/ebazzan3.htm
[13:45] <eroomde> (i thought i'd expanf my slightly flippant google link for your benefit)
[13:45] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: I did wonder from where the name come from
[13:46] <LeoBodnar> it probably has no relation
[13:46] <LeoBodnar> "Chief Engineer Ettore Arduino, with remarkable presence of mind, started throwing anything he could lay his hands on down to the men on the ice as he drifted slowly away with the envelope. These supplies, and the packs intended for the descent to the ice were to help keep the survivors alive for their long ordeal on the ice. Arduino himself perished with the drifting airship envelope."
[13:47] <eroomde> here's a funny thing i'd not noticed
[13:47] <eroomde> gershwin's swanee, in the opening chords he's completely ripping the opening of the grieg piano concerto
[13:47] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muG6jQDfB24
[13:48] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKfGDqXEFkE
[13:48] <Willdude123> Afk, sowwy
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[16:04] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[16:04] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[16:10] <daveake> net
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[16:21] <Babs____> Afternoon chaps. Just want another pair of eyes on this if that's ok
[16:21] <Babs____> http://imgur.com/iMt4Iez
[16:21] <Babs____> I have the circuit at the top working fine
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[16:21] <Babs____> But I need to make sure that both motors run out of juice at the same time
[16:21] <eroomde> looks fine
[16:22] <Babs____> So I was going to run the circuit at the bottom instead
[16:22] <Babs____> Hey eroomde
[16:22] <Babs____> Just trying to stop it spinning into oblivion
[16:22] <eroomde> yup
[16:22] <eroomde> that oughta do it
[16:22] <Babs____> Cool - thanks
[16:22] <Babs____> Should be booking our tickets to the US soon ;-)
[16:23] <eroomde> still 3 years to go isn't there?
[16:24] <Babs____> Yes, but http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0095009/photos/91049302@N00/7329580894/
[16:25] <eroomde> golly
[16:26] <kc2pit> Failure is not an option. It's a factory standard feature.
[16:28] <eroomde> i'm having failure here atm
[16:28] <eroomde> it's all annoying
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[16:31] <Babs____> What are you failing at eroomde ?
[16:32] <eroomde> avrdude and ubuntu
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[16:33] <Babs____> I'd like to say I could help
[16:33] <Babs____> But.....
[16:33] <eroomde> it works fine in OSX
[16:33] <eroomde> meh
[16:33] <eroomde> might just switch back to osx
[16:33] <Babs____> I've designed some beautiful reaction wheels
[16:33] <Babs____> All carbon fibre and steel balls
[16:34] <eroomde> aint we all
[16:34] <Babs____> arf
[16:34] <eroomde> i suspect balancing them will be the fun part
[16:36] <Laurenceb> why not use some rate gyros and raw video with software deblurring?
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[16:36] <eroomde> software deconvolution is quite hard
[16:36] <Laurenceb> im joking
[16:36] <eroomde> especially if all you have for feedback is mems
[16:37] <Laurenceb> but it might be worth adding some rate gyros to the camera itself
[16:37] <Laurenceb> oh wait they will be there already
[16:37] <Babs____> They will totally autobalamce
[16:37] <Laurenceb> so it might be possible to do extra cleanup later
[16:37] <Babs____> Auto balance even
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[16:38] <Laurenceb> so you have 3 axis control?
[16:38] <eroomde> how do they autobalance?
[16:39] <Babs____> Yes, operating off a stable-ish platform
[16:39] <Babs____> Eroomde - through the power of will
[16:39] <Babs____> In all seriousness , the rate of rotation is not high enough to cause many issues I think
[16:39] <Babs____> There is no way that it will perform like a cubli
[16:40] <eroomde> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51X6E0WMNWL.jpg
[16:40] <Babs____> But if I pop a bearing in between the top of the capsule and the balloon then it won't be rotating much anyway so shouldn't need much adjustment
[16:41] <Laurenceb> Babs____: do you have any diagrams of this thing or is it secret?
[16:41] <Babs____> Top secret -
[16:42] <Babs____> Hold on, let me get some
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[16:45] <eroomde> good joke
[16:45] <Laurenceb> lolz
[16:47] <Babs_> here you go https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/13671046375/
[16:48] <Babs_> and i think you can see where this is going https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/13671046735/
[16:49] <eroomde> flickr has such rubbish urls
[16:50] <Laurenceb> is that a custom brushless motor?
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[16:51] <Babs_> nope, one of these http://www.quadcopters.co.uk/iflight-ipower-gbm5206-150t-brushless-gimbal-motor-936-p.asp
[16:51] <Babs_> not that exact one
[16:51] <Babs_> so relatively low rotation rate but torquey
[16:52] <Laurenceb> interesting
[16:52] <Laurenceb> no info on the torque :-/
[16:52] <Babs_> in https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/13671046375/ the big holes have ball bearings in them
[16:52] <Laurenceb> about 1Kg/cm ?
[16:52] <Babs_> i don't think quite that much
[16:52] <Laurenceb> ok
[16:53] <Laurenceb> so you have a payload box with three of these on it?
[16:54] <Babs_> no, do you remember that we were trying to figure out how to minimise the autorotation on this https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/12916023814/
[16:55] <Babs_> so i have two wheels both in the horizontal plane now sitting in the box above the main camera gimbal one above the other
[16:55] <Babs_> and by varying the rotation rates of each i should be able to provide so contra torque to stop it auto rotating
[16:55] <Babs_> *some
[16:56] <Laurenceb> bottom part is a standard three axis camera rig?
[16:56] <Babs_> yep
[16:57] <Babs_> well, standard as it operates the same as any other one, only i designed this one myself
[16:57] <Laurenceb> nice
[16:57] <Laurenceb> so why do you have two of these wheels?
[16:57] <Babs_> i've got one of these boards to drive that http://desirerc.co.uk/controllers/v3-board.html
[16:58] <Babs_> so if you have one wheel you have to run it forward and reverse, which means delving relatively hard into the firmware and making the brushless motor rotate at low speeds, which is hard
[16:59] <Babs_> whereas if i have two wheels sitting above each other, they can rotate at more typical esc driven speeds, but its only the relative speed of the two that is imporant
[16:59] <Babs_> *important
[16:59] <Laurenceb> i guess
[16:59] <Laurenceb> it seems more than a bit nasty
[16:59] <Babs_> its more weight granted
[17:00] <Laurenceb> cant you run the system around an operating point where a single wheel is spinning at medium speed?
[17:00] <kc2pit> I imagine you can get higher instantaneous torque from braking than from trying to increase speed, too.
[17:00] <Laurenceb> thats a point
[17:00] <Babs_> if i write in terms of microseconds to them, i get 700 integer increments
[17:01] <Laurenceb> but i doubt you will be seeing sudden torques around the vertical axis
[17:01] <Babs_> kc2pit, you can, thats how the cublii works
[17:01] <Babs_> laurenceb, correct
[17:01] <Laurenceb> this is tricky
[17:01] <Laurenceb> i guess you need a control loop that tries to untwist the nylon line
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[17:01] <Babs_> nope, just use a bearing like this one
[17:01] <Laurenceb> ah
[17:02] <Willdude> Wait whut just happened
[17:02] <Laurenceb> you will still pick up some torque
[17:02] <Willdude> Prolly my client derping
[17:02] <Babs_> https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8589745881/in/set-72157632733154985
[17:02] <Laurenceb> why not use multiple lines up to the envelope?
[17:03] <Laurenceb> nice
[17:03] <kc2pit> Are these going to be enclosed?
[17:04] <Laurenceb> http://ukseds.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/platform-640x450.jpg
[17:04] <Laurenceb> and im not convinced by the need for the swivel connector there
[17:04] <Babs_> it was really stable even when under a lot of pressure https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8852335762/in/set-72157632733154985
[17:04] <Laurenceb> if there is only a short length of time at the top
[17:04] <Babs_> swivel as in bearing ?
[17:04] <kc2pit> "Launch tube?" Oh gods, somebody is/was working on a rockoon, weren't they?
[17:05] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:05] <Laurenceb> yeah, bearing
[17:05] <Babs_> i'm just going to put one on. 20g weight is no great shakes.
[17:06] <Laurenceb> its certainly interesting
[17:06] <Laurenceb> control looks like a bit of a headache
[17:07] <kc2pit> Anyway, I was thinking that leaving the wheels exposed to the exterior might help with saturation. If one is persistently spinning faster than the other, air drag would provide some external torque. Not that you'll get a lot of that at working altitudes...
[17:07] <Laurenceb> kc2pit: i think you could have a despin proceedure
[17:07] <Laurenceb> but i havent quite got my head around it
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[17:08] <kc2pit> But you could design the wheels to enhance that if it's worth the extra wasted power.
[17:08] <Laurenceb> i guess you would rely on the residual torque from the vertical axis bearing to bleed or angular momentum
[17:08] <Laurenceb> but then you will pick it back up again just as easily...
[17:08] <kc2pit> Right, but then you give up on having control during despin.
[17:08] <Babs_> i think the key thing is, use simple stuff first, and more complex stuff second
[17:08] <Laurenceb> i guess you would have a limiting duty cycle of stable control
[17:09] <Laurenceb> of less than 50% of the time
[17:09] <Babs_> so disconnect the spin from the payload in the first place
[17:09] <Laurenceb> yeah
[17:09] <Laurenceb> cant you use a spin ring around the vertical axis of the camera stabiliser?
[17:09] <Laurenceb> that would solve this issue
[17:09] <Babs_> and the bearing has been flight tested https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8845053028/in/set-72157632733154985
[17:09] <Babs_> spin ring?
[17:10] <Laurenceb> slip ring
[17:10] <Laurenceb> sorry
[17:10] <Babs_> its got one
[17:10] <Babs_> https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/12916023814/
[17:11] <Laurenceb> oh
[17:11] <Laurenceb> then you should be fine then
[17:11] <Babs_> there is a third motor under the bottom carbon fibre panel
[17:11] <Laurenceb> just with standard three axis control
[17:11] <Babs_> yes, the reaction wheel probably isn't necessary, its just a bit of added fun
[17:11] <Laurenceb> lol ok
[17:11] <Babs_> it would get there eventually, albeit by contra rotating the payload
[17:12] <Babs_> ie if the bit below the payload box (camera etc.) was 600g, the bit above the payload 700g, the difference would mean that they wouldn't exactly auto rotate
[17:13] <Laurenceb> yes
[17:13] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[19:29] <jededu> Going to buy an atennna tomorrow looking at a Watson W-300 ?
[19:31] <Laurenceb> i prefer the Holmes
[19:31] <eroomde> excellent
[19:31] <eroomde> jededu
[19:31] <eroomde> you'll be pleased with it i'm sure
[19:31] <Laurenceb> the Watson is too elementary for me
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[19:32] <jededu> Its a start I havent meddled with this since the 80s
[19:33] <eroomde> i think laurence is making sherlock jokes
[19:33] <eroomde> rather than offering an honest critique of your antenna
[19:33] <jededu> I guessed that lol
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[19:33] <ulfr> lol
[19:33] <eroomde> i wouldn't be surprised if the watsons are the most popular omnis in hab
[19:34] <eroomde> i have one (the 50) and like it
[19:35] <daveake> I was going to get the w-50, but picked up a used w-300 at a good price on ebay
[19:36] <eroomde> like it?
[19:36] <daveake> yes, works well
[19:36] <eroomde> job's a good'n jededu
[19:37] <jededu> Is this a good price the also stock the W-300 so could get a discount
[19:37] <jededu> http://www.radioworld.co.uk/catalog/yaesu_ft-817nd_transceiver-p-348.html?osCsid=8o3d65h91slnjtqhecul8doa60
[19:39] <daveake> That's slightly less than I paid for mine, from the same place
[19:39] <eroomde> 500ish seems to be par for the course
[19:39] <eroomde> ebay you might get for 480, but warranty peace of mind from a known shop is probably worth it
[19:40] <eroomde> + you might be able to haggle as you say
[19:40] <daveake> absolutely
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[19:40] <Babs_> i always get the impression that me using my yaesu is like owning a rolls royce and only using it for the cigarette lighter
[19:40] <jededu> Time to go shopping :)
[19:41] <Babs_> or worse still, not realising that the rolls royce does anything other than light cigarettes
[19:41] <eroomde> you can grow into it :)
[19:41] <jededu> And the PI
[19:42] <eroomde> what's the Pi for?
[19:42] <jededu> is behaving very well in the freezer at -22
[19:42] <jededu> transmitting for 3 hours
[19:42] <eroomde> suspect it's single-handedly stopping the whole freezer from being -30 :)
[19:42] <jededu> lol
[19:42] <Babs_> snigger
[19:43] <Babs_> frozen pie is rubbish anyway. i used to be a director of a pie company and chilled is always the way to go
[19:43] <eroomde> prefer them hot really
[19:44] <eroomde> pieminster should do deliveries
[19:44] <jededu> the pi is at -2
[19:44] <Babs_> i sat next to the guy who owns pieminister at a food dinner
[19:45] <eroomde> what did he eat?
[19:45] <Babs_> there was much pie one up manship going on
[19:45] <Babs_> quiche
[19:45] <Babs_> i laughed in the face of his weekly production volumes
[19:46] <Babs_> he laughed in the face of our retail price
[19:46] <Babs_> 475 tpw vs. 70 tpw
[19:46] <eroomde> tpw?
[19:46] <Babs_> 99p vs. 249p
[19:47] <Babs_> tonnes per week
[19:47] <Babs_> the KPI at which all pie companies are measured by
[19:47] <eroomde> kpi?
[19:47] <Babs_> ~fully laden jumbo jet full of pie
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[19:47] <Babs_> key performance indicator
[19:48] <eroomde> at last about twenty minutes in retail
[19:48] <eroomde> i'd last*
[19:48] <Babs_> retail logistics is the single most impressive thing you will see
[19:49] <Babs_> 4th December - 40 million mince pies in cold stores across 40 different retail brands and price bands
[19:49] <yesiamquitesmall> today I have learnt more about the pie industry than any thing else
[19:49] <jededu> On highaltitude reading about tonnes of pies lol
[19:49] <Babs_> 6th December - all mince pies in 10,000 supermarkets around the country
[19:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:49] <Babs_> otif delivery at 99.8%
[19:49] <eroomde> otif?
[19:49] <Babs_> on time in full
[19:49] <Babs_> astounding
[19:49] <eroomde> that is quite impressive
[19:50] <eroomde> i wish swagelok could match that
[19:50] <eroomde> it's about 50% otif atm
[19:50] <Babs_> each pie traceable back to the time at which it was produced, and what farms each of the ingredients came from
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[19:50] <Babs_> and which person was on shift at the time
[19:51] <Babs_> for now, i am being called to dinner
[19:51] <Laurenceb> so in other words, who loses their job is theres crap in the pie :P
[19:51] <Babs_> seasonal calendar distribution makes mince pie distribution look like its childs play
[19:52] <mfa298> with those sorts of facts we'll expect a full run down of which farms your dinner came from and what routes the ingredients took to get to your plate :p
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[19:55] <daveake> anyone know if an 817 is safe to run direct from a car 12V, without anything to protect it from the usual spikes?
[19:55] <chrisstubbs> daveake, I run mine like that
[19:55] <chrisstubbs> you sometimes get some noise from the alternator though
[19:55] <daveake> cheers
[19:55] <chrisstubbs> drifting accross the waterfall with the revs :P
[19:56] <daveake> I have an adapter, sold for the task, that (I think) includes a regulator
[19:56] <daveake> however it's currently giving out 2.5V ...
[19:56] <daveake> ... so needs fixing/replacing
[19:57] <eroomde> id want to lob some kinda lc filter inline, if it were me
[19:57] <eroomde> there is such amazing crap on car 12V lines
[19:57] <eroomde> like -40V spikes
[19:57] <mfa298> that's how I run mine as well - although ideally it should have some fuses in the line as well (although I've not bothered)
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[19:58] <daveake> eroomde yes I just don't know if the 817 has that stuff included inside
[19:59] <daveake> I've seen some poorly designed stuff just die when connected to a car "12V" line
[19:59] <daveake> as you say, amazing amoount of shit on those things
[19:59] <chrisstubbs> for the sake of a £300 radio its probably a good idea to have a filter/fuse/reg
[19:59] <daveake> yep
[19:59] <daveake> which I did
[19:59] <daveake> till it died :/
[20:00] <daveake> still, at least the 817 didn't die :)
[20:00] <chrisstubbs> opened it up?
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[20:00] <daveake> no it's behind the dash and haven't had time to open it up yet
[20:01] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:01] <daveake> The 817 ran out of juice during the chase on Friday evening, and I checked the adapter Vout yesterday
[20:01] <daveake> only 4 screws to get to
[20:02] <mfa298> the saving grace for me is that I tend to plug the 817 in after starting the engine so hopefully miss half the really nasty stuff as the engine starts up
[20:03] <chrisstubbs> thinking about it think I might put something together for mine next time
[20:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> OT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np3rbK79F68&feature=youtu.be
[20:04] <jededu> this has got to be worth £20 after reading your comments i am going to order one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Visua-Stabiliser-Regulator-electronic-equipment/dp/B0044C1WHA
[20:06] <eroomde> Geoff-G8DHE: that's amazing isn't it
[20:07] <eroomde> i showed it to my boss and he started rocking in his chair an got the shakes
[20:07] <eroomde> (he's an engineer)
[20:07] <Laurenceb> lol
[20:07] <Laurenceb> that video
[20:09] <chrisstubbs> jededu, the feedback looks like that thing is pretty unreliable
[20:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> It brings back to many memories of being called in as a Network specialist, to comment on a salesmans job ...
[20:10] <jededu> diddnt read feedback maybe just build somthing
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[20:17] <jededu> sorted my 240 invertor has a regulated 12v out
[20:18] <amell> just read back through the chat log. Absolutely fascinating
[20:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
[20:20] <amell> pies, gimbals and overpriced radios.
[20:21] <amell> went to a radio rally today. jesus.
[20:21] <amell> boxes and boxes of stuff thats only fit for the tip, and grey hair as far as the eye could see. I wish I hadnt bothered.
[20:22] <amell> left after 10 minutes.
[20:22] <LazyLeopard> Which rally?
[20:22] <Laurenceb> i went to a fabric fair once
[20:22] <amell> cambridge repeater group
[20:22] <Laurenceb> it was like radio rally only females
[20:22] <daveake> amell That's standard
[20:22] <mikestir> everything good will have been at narsa today
[20:22] <mikestir> (blackpool)
[20:23] <daveake> I've been to 3 rallies and have spent a total of £10
[20:23] <amell> struggling to understand the point of these rallys.
[20:23] <chrisstubbs> daveake, i hope that was mostly on bacon butties
[20:23] <daveake> Actually 2 7Ah SLAs :/
[20:23] <daveake> Forgot about the bacon butties :)
[20:23] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:24] <mikestir> the likes of ml+s and w+s have big stands at the larger rallies and usually have some good prices
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> you can never have too many SLA's
[20:24] Action: LazyLeopard sometimes spends very little, and sometimes finds something useful.
[20:24] <daveake> true
[20:24] <daveake> yes if you're after a new aerial for example there's usually a few quid off
[20:24] <chrisstubbs> http://bit.ly/1mTdkDr
[20:25] <LazyLeopard> Kempton next Sunday.
[20:25] <daveake> I go for the amusement value of looking at kit that's older than I am
[20:25] Action: LazyLeopard may go...
[20:25] <amell> in other news discovered my aerial bracket doesnt have enough offset in it. and my pole is too flexi. Back to the shop for me.
[20:25] <amell> X-50 is surprisingly large lol
[20:25] <jededu> I have one of these in my van excellent 3/4g signal and wifi should be good for tracking http://www.3grouterstore.co.uk/3G/H720_Dual_SIM_HSPA_3G_Router.html
[20:26] <mfa298> amell: if those are your first impressions of a radio rally it can't have been a proper radio rally - lots of them are held outdoors for a reason!
[20:26] <amell> TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY FIVE POUNDS for a 3G router? Youve been had.
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> amell: With load balancing and dual sim?
[20:27] <jededu> exactly lol
[20:27] <daveake> Looks an ok price to me
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> That doesn't seem an unreasonable price to me at all
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> yes, you can DIY for a quarter of that price
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> With quite a lot of work
[20:28] <daveake> My mifi was about £50 but single sim only
[20:28] <SpeedEvil> Openwrt with something with two minipcie slots, ...
[20:28] <amell> Speedevil exactly.
[20:28] <mfa298> I think my 3G router was around £50 but you then also need the dongle to plug into it.
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> amell: And it's gonna be quite a long process to get it up and actually working properly.
[20:29] Action: mfa298 has given up on openwrt and has gone back to the slower Cisco AP - It's nice to have something that stays up more than 24 hours!
[20:29] <jededu> anyway it works very well
[20:30] <amell> I found openwrt on a Linksys WRT54G was rock solid
[20:30] <craag> mfa298: :(
[20:30] <craag> Tried openwrt trunk?
[20:30] <mfa298> this is trunk
[20:30] <craag> :/
[20:30] <mfa298> it seems to go between unstable and very unstable
[20:30] <craag> I'm inclined to blame the hw!
[20:31] <craag> All stuff I've set up has been super solid
[20:31] <amell> tbh I would use 2 50 quid single sim and a small load balancer.
[20:32] <craag> Oh for 3G router - E353 + '3' SIM + MR3420
[20:32] <craag> with openwrt
[20:32] <mfa298> from reading the openwrt forums it looks like the aetheros chip used in various devices (including some of the later TP link stuff) had some issues.
[20:32] <craag> That's what I used yesterday running the stream from cambridge through it :)
[20:33] <craag> Router was in the car about 50m away
[20:33] <mfa298> but seeing as I've got a Cisco with A+G Radios that seems a better idea than finding an older tplink g tplink to put openwrt on (my current one is n)
[20:33] <mikestir> mfa298: I've got openwrt running on some tplink gigabit cable router and it's rock solid
[20:34] <mikestir> 1043ND rings a bell. it's atheros ar9132
[20:34] <mfa298> the switching side was rock solid but the wifi kept failing
[20:35] <jededu> I could use two single sim units and a managed switch but that will not fit between the roof and lining ot my T4 :)
[20:35] <mfa298> 1043ND is what I've got.
[20:35] <mikestir> well this is running 10.03.1-RC5, r27608
[20:35] <mikestir> and I haven't noticed any issues with the wifi
[20:35] <mfa298> it may not help that I ask my network hardware to do more interesting stuff - I had three wifi networks on seperate vlans as well as multicast.
[20:36] <mikestir> yeah I'm not doing anything special with the wifi, but it does run multiple openvpn endpoints
[20:36] <amell> craag: your 3420 is stock firmware? I was looking at the 3040
[20:36] <mfa298> I should possibly try the older 10 software - the wiki page wasn't very clear as to what revisions are safe to run it on.
[20:37] <craag> amell: I tried the stock, it wasn't bad actually, but I wanted to play with IPv6 on it, so stuck openwrt AA on it.
[20:38] <craag> Unfortunately doesn't have enough Flash space for that and the 3G stuff
[20:38] <craag> But does run an irc server :)
[20:38] <amell> 4 meg flash
[20:39] <mfa298> running trunk might give you a bit more flash space as it doesn't seem to have the web interface installed (at least for the 1043)
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[20:39] <craag> Ah I like the web interface
[20:39] <craag> When you're in a muddy field and want to change something quickly...
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[20:39] <craag> Last thing I want to be doing is reading man pages!
[20:40] <amell> trying to work out what the 3420 gives me over the 3040
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[20:40] <amell> I dont want ethernet ports. just 3G and wifi
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[20:42] <craag> amell: If you're after something compact then the 3040 looks good
[20:42] <amell> yeah its for the caravan
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[20:43] <craag> I got the 3420 for the MIMO antennas (and put 5dB ones on), so I can have the laptop a way away from the car (ie in the middle of a field) and still get decent signal.
[20:43] <craag> Sounds like that's not a requirement for you
[20:43] <amell> I only need to be able to reach the car, when its in the caravan. for browsing while driving.
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[20:43] <amell> I mean when someone else is driving& :)
[20:43] <craag> of course....
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[20:44] <craag> also hooking the phone up to it so google navigation doesn't drain your data is useful
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[20:44] <craag> Oh battery powered as well
[20:44] <craag> Sounds ideal
[20:45] <amell> 3020 or 3040 that is the question. 3040 has 2000mAh battery in it. thats all i can see.
[20:46] <mfa298> looks like the 1043 openwrt page has been updated and links to one of the threads about the bug I see and implies the bug is AA and higher only - and also that my 1043 might just manage to run backfire (any revision higher and backfire=Brick)
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[20:47] <mfa298> I knew there was a reason I liked paying the premium for Cisco kit - it just works and does the clever stuff without breaking.
[20:48] <craag> amell: Yeah other than that looks very similar
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[20:48] <craag> mfa298: But that's no fun :P
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[20:48] <amell> uh oh
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[20:48] <edusupport> I used true bonded 3g to stream video last year but it is done at network level and is very expensive
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[20:49] <craag> The cambridge stream yesterday was 50kbps
[20:49] <craag> Not amazing resolution, but enough for people to get an idea I think
[20:49] <mfa298> craag: but means I can have fun getting the adsl router to terminate the IPv6 tunnel rather than having fun getting basic connectivity working.
[20:50] <craag> mfa298: Yeah I was joking - it's not fun unless it works at the end!
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[20:51] <edusupport> what resolution did you get at 50kbps
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[20:51] <craag> twas rather tiny
[20:51] <mikestir> mfa298: what do you use for IPv6? I had the 1043 tunnelling via hurricane electric but I found going via the US made everything noticeably slower
[20:51] <craag> 320x240
[20:52] <edusupport> mmmm
[20:52] <mfa298> craag: I think it looked to be similar quality to daveakes streams - although that could be down to batc
[20:52] <edusupport> transmitted how ?
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[20:52] <craag> The batc viewer will show true resolution if you fullscreen it (I've done 1080p)
[20:53] <mfa298> mikestir: I'm using HE terminated on a cisco adsl router (877) but from a london pop (I used to use a sixxs tunnel from ireland terminated on solaris)
[20:53] Nick change: Guest97593 -> nigelvh
[20:53] <craag> I was watching the stream on the page for a while as well, so I reckon it would have been fine with 100 kbps, maybe more, just had other things to worry about :)
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[20:54] <amell> actually im just gonna go for the 3420, its the same price as the 3020
[20:54] <craag> edusupport: laptop => 3g router in car 50m away => '3' 3G dongle with magmount antenna
[20:54] <mikestir> mfa298: is the london pop fairly new?
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[20:55] <edusupport> Cool :)
[20:55] <mfa298> not sure - I only moved from sixxs about a year ago - I was getting annoyed with always getting redirected to google.ie
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[20:55] <amell> im not sure, will openwrt run a nat web proxy, so I can share a wifi hotspot that only accepts one IP/mac.
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[20:56] <edusupport> If you ever need a stream I have 6mb up on sat no contention
[20:57] <mfa298> amell: I'm not sure what you actually mean - but there's a fair chance openwrt will do it.
[20:58] <craag> Heh nice. This was at Churchill in cambridge, so 3G was fine. Other launch sites that would be very useful though!
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[20:59] <edusupport> and cloud encoders send it where you like
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[20:59] <amell> edusupport: thats not cheap, what do you normally use it for?
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[21:00] <edusupport> Cycle races corporate events ect
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[21:03] <amell> Anyone from Germany here?
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[21:05] <mikestir> mfa298: I just turned it back on because it does seem to be via london now, but speedtest is 56Mbps for IPv4 vs 12Mbps for IPv6, so it's going off again :(
[21:06] <edusupport> I did the british downhill series last year but British Cycling pulled the plug we couldnt pay the insurance levy that was suddenly bought up at a meeting when they realised that we had 30,000 viewers
[21:07] <craag> Oh cool
[21:08] Nick change: Mission-Critical -> MissionCritical
[21:08] <craag> What service did you stream through?
[21:08] <craag> Or your own custom one?
[21:08] <mfa298> mikestir: my adsl is only 8mbps so probably won't notice that difference.
[21:09] <mattbrejza> craag: radiation failed yday due to the HV generator failing
[21:10] <craag> mattbrejza: Aww :(
[21:10] <mattbrejza> what happens when you build a step up from a 741 opamp :P
[21:10] <edusupport> Its europasat custom 6mb up 2mb down
[21:10] <mikestir> mfa298: it's a pity because I'd like to experiment with it, but the line is meant to be going up to 100meg real-soon-now and I'm definitely not losing 90% of my bandwidth!
[21:10] <craag> edusupport: I mean the 30,000 viewer distribution
[21:10] <craag> haha mattbrejza
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[21:12] <craag> I rebuilt my maplin psu regulator last week with an LM324
[21:12] <mattbrejza> interestingly the low sensitivy increased in its counts much more than the other ones
[21:13] <mattbrejza> so i wonder if there were some really juicy particles going through it that the higher sensitivy ones wouldnt pick up
[21:13] <craag> hmm interesting
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[21:14] <edusupport> ahh that was with freecaster
[21:14] <craag> Oh nice, thanks
[21:15] <mattbrejza> also it didnt hit the ground as fast as it could have done, the descent rate slowed a couple km just before the ground
[21:16] <amell> Need a payg data sim for germany. I cant live without the internet on a 3 week holiday.
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[21:18] <edusupport> aka extreme.com
[21:18] <mattbrejza> people with callsigns beinging with D are german, also lunar when hes around
[21:20] <edusupport> we broadcast to the akamai servers using wirecast
[21:21] <amell> craag: do you connect your 3420 power input direct to car battery?
[21:21] <amell> edusupport: Akamai streaming is nice.
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[21:21] <amell> edusupport: but expensive.
[21:22] <craag> edusupport: I see, thanks. I'm slightly involved with the batc.tv streamer, and we're looking into revamping it, so just interested in what 'competition' is out there :)
[21:22] <amell> 45p/GB is a bit excessive for overage
[21:22] <amell> craag: I would use Amazon cloudfront streaming.
[21:22] <craag> amell: Yes, iirc the input reg is rated for 18V.
[21:23] <craag> Amazon cloudfront streaming - thanks, I'll check it out
[21:23] <amell> perfect, so just cut the psu off and stick a fag lighter connector on the end. come to momma baby.
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[21:24] <craag> Amazon looks a bit pricey :/
[21:24] <amell> thats CHEAP for a CDN - believe me
[21:25] <amell> I used to pay Akamai 120K a year.
[21:25] <craag> We're planning to host the streaming software on a high-end linode box.
[21:25] <craag> We currently use adobe FMS on a hw box
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[21:26] <amell> why not on AWS instead of linode?
[21:27] <aadamson> $$W7QO19, Hello World!!!*53FF
[21:27] <aadamson> $$W7QO20, Hello World!!!*C47F
[21:27] <aadamson> $$W7QO21, Hello World!!!*D49D
[21:27] <aadamson> whooo hooo... THOR16 is working on my STM32L1!
[21:27] <aadamson> :)
[21:28] <craag> amell: bandwidth is pricey!
[21:28] <aadamson> AFSK, and now MFSK16 functional with the cdcel913 DPLL in place of a TXCO (however the cdcel913 *needs* a TXCO instead of a crystal :)... but one thing at a time
[21:28] <edusupport> I broadcast 5.5 hours of cycling on a welsh mountain at 720p 5 cams all on fiber dropped 3 frames and no timeouts the akami servers were faultless as is the support thats why they are expensive
[21:29] <amell> craag: you wont get cheaper than AWS CDN. its like an order of magnitude or two cheaper than Akamai.
[21:29] <amell> if you cant afford that, you dont want to do CDN.
[21:30] <craag> But I'm saying that bandwidth on linode is cheaper..
[21:31] <amell> okay, fine, so you dont want CDN streaming? Sorry, misunderstood the requirement.
[21:31] <craag> No, we use our own streaming software instance.
[21:32] <amell> CDN = content distribution. streaming one to many.
[21:32] <craag> Yes...
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[21:34] <edusupport> I have never tried any other provider we needed the connection to extreme tv --- freecaster have a deal with akaami---freecaster own extreme.com---we stream to extreme.com --- extreme.com provide content to extreme tv
[21:35] <edusupport> we are on sky :)
[21:36] <amell> liking the freecaster.tv website
[21:37] <edusupport> as long as we provide freecaster with titbits we use the encoders for free
[21:37] <craag> We're a very cheap service for batc members, not a high-end streaming service, so we see a lot of constant traffic with small peaks for stuff like AMSAT confs and daveake's Pi flights.
[21:37] <craag> So a CDN isn't needed.
[21:38] <amell> ok, why not just use HoA? Google Hangouts on Air?
[21:39] <craag> It existed before Hangouts - and has a reasonable-sized user base now.
[21:39] <Willdude123> Hangouts are fun.
[21:39] <Willdude123> People are generally like ew Google plus
[21:41] <craag> I tried to use google hangouts for a business meeting a few hours ago... kept crashing :(
[21:41] <craag> Dropped back to skype
[21:42] <ibanezmatt13> Could I just ask a little C question. Is this code I've written here likely to print each bit of a character so I can see its binary value? http://pastebin.com/uJrsDYBC
[21:43] <ibanezmatt13> So I'm getting "10000000" which definitely isn't binary 'E' :)
[21:43] <bertrik> you're shifting the wrong way I think
[21:43] <mfa298> you may be shifting the wrong way
[21:43] <ibanezmatt13> ah I see
[21:44] <ibanezmatt13> I'll try the other way :P
[21:44] <bertrik> or testing the wrong bit, depending how you look at it
[21:45] <bertrik> keep the shift direction the same, but using (currentbyte & 128) instead of (currentbyte & 1)
[21:46] <ibanezmatt13> hmm, I thought (currentbyte & 1) checked if the first bit of the current byte was a 1?
[21:46] <mfa298> if you shift the other way I think you'll see the bits but they'll be reversed fromwhat you expect
[21:46] <ibanezmatt13> yes they are :)
[21:47] <edusupport> My new board testing now http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/nb1.JPG
[21:47] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, how come it's reading backwards? And (currentbyte & 1) definitely is checking the first bit is a 1, right?
[21:47] <mfa298> &1 will be comparing to the least significant bit (LSB) so as you shift (>>) you'll get 2^0, 2^1, 2^2 ... 2^7
[21:48] <amell> edusupport: 2 antenna? one for gps one for 2m?
[21:48] <ibanezmatt13> ah, so I guess the LSB is not always the first bit :/
[21:48] <edusupport> GPS 434
[21:48] <edusupport> &)cm
[21:49] <amell> edusupport: a work of art
[21:49] <edusupport> 70cm
[21:49] <mfa298> if you do & 0x80 (or & 128) with shift as you are currently (<<) you'll get the MSB (most significant bit) and work down the byte so 2^7, 2^6 ...
[21:49] <amell> what are the 4 sets of 4 pins headers for?
[21:49] <ibanezmatt13> hmm
[21:50] <edusupport> i2c sensors 1 has a LLC
[21:50] <mfa298> when it's written down it's generally MSB first, in computers and comminications in particular somethings work MSB first some LSB first.
[21:50] <edusupport> for 5v sensor
[21:52] <edusupport> its been sitting at -22 for 4 hours
[21:52] <amell> temp sensor on board?
[21:53] <edusupport> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[21:53] <amell> cant see one offhand
[21:53] <edusupport> yes
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[21:53] <amell> Your raspi board temp seems a little hot.
[21:54] <amell> 253.0? :)
[21:54] <cm13g09> mfa298: PM?
[21:54] <edusupport> Have to fix code it went from 0 to 255 so its -2 at the mo
[21:55] <edusupport> diddnt expect it to go -
[21:57] <edusupport> Its a tmp102 on the board
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[22:05] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[22:07] <cm13g09> mfa298: -> PM
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[22:29] <alexgator> hey, does anyone know if trackuino compiles under Arduino 1.0?
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[22:43] <aadamson> alexgator, if you don't need the full version (I removed the sensor stuff and the mx148 radio
[22:43] <aadamson> I've got a version of the latest that does.
[22:44] <aadamson> alexgator, https://github.com/akadamson/APRS-Mini-Tracker/tree/experimental
[22:44] <aadamson> just check the config.h file and fix the things needed or use it as an example for how to fix all the code to compile on 1.x
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[22:57] <alexgator> thanks so much! looks great.
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[23:59] <Laurenceb> http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-1662.png
[00:00] --- Mon Apr 7 2014