highaltitude.log.20140403

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[00:26] <DL7AD> forecast for SP3OSJ: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub/arlTraj.swf?client=gme-noaa&channel=OAR.ARL.HQ.HYSPLIT&dir=/hypubout/HYSPLITtraj_158506&data=/hysplit_metadata&ext=html
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[07:12] <mfa298> Not sure it's worth turning the radio on for tomorrows kent flight. Following the facebook links I found: The balloon should reach an altitude between 5-6,000ft before bursting
[07:12] <SIbot> In real units: 6,000 ft = 1829 m
[07:13] <fsphil> there are people who live higher than that
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[07:21] <LeoBodnar> this statement is probably true
[07:22] <fsphil> yes
[07:22] <eroomde> s/LeoBodnar/epistemolobot
[07:22] <LeoBodnar> it does not imply it will reach "an altitude between 5-6,000ft" before [continuing] and bursting [at higher altitude]
[07:22] <SIbot> In real units: 6,000 ft = 1829 m
[07:22] <LeoBodnar> *it does imply
[07:23] <LeoBodnar> it does not say bursting at altitude of 5-6kft
[07:23] <LeoBodnar> gm
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[08:04] <mfa298> there's a prediction linked to the text which has a very short flight path so I'd say it's a high probability that they're aiming for burst at that (low) height
[08:06] <mfa298> there's some interesting reading of what they've been trying if you follow the FB event link in his email, then click the link to the group that created it.
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[08:12] <cm13g09> morning mfa298
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[08:37] <Student> Hi does anyone here know about one wire ?
[08:43] <fsphil> what's the question?
[08:46] <daveake> was that it? :)
[08:46] <Student> I'm wondering if i have to switch my pin constanntly from input to output and other way around ?
[08:46] <Student> cause i'm trying to make it myself instead of using a libary
[08:47] <daveake> Well yes, the data goes both ways so you will have to be able to switch the pin between i/p and o/p
[08:48] <Student> aha oke was thinking about maybe a pin state or so that could do both
[08:49] <Student> But now I know i'm not wrong atleast thanks
[08:49] <daveake> The pin physically has to be driven to send an output level, and has to be not driven to sense a level
[08:50] <Student> Okaj thanks :)
[08:51] <daveake> p.s. If this is a learning exercise (and from your nick I have to assume that :-) ), then great. If you just wanted to get it working then use a library.
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[08:54] <fsphil> there are three states for 1-wire, input, output low and output high
[08:54] <eroomde> and plasma
[08:54] <eroomde> the forgotten 4th
[08:55] <fsphil> if the AVR turns to plasma, you're doing something wrong
[08:56] <daveake> Yeah, should have used a PICAxe. They never turn to plasma
[08:57] <eroomde> the ions have gone before it's finished interpreting the next instruction from eeprom
[08:57] <daveake> Apparently plasma TVs have a nice pic
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[09:05] <Student> What's plasma ? :D
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[09:06] <fsphil> I've heard it sometimes appears in the sky as a bright yellow disk
[09:06] <daveake> That reminds me ... https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/66852_787579577929722_250118203_n.jpg
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[09:09] <sp2ipt> Student: ionised gas
[09:09] <fsphil> hah
[09:10] <sp2ipt> or at least "something like gas" :)
[09:10] <fsphil> conductive gas
[09:11] <Chetic> has anybody tried using the transmitter/receiver version of the ntx2 in-flight?
[09:12] <Chetic> what's the reason for only talking one way?
[09:12] <Chetic> I drool at the thought of logging in to a linux terminal at 30km altitude :]
[09:12] <eroomde> i believe several have, I don't know to what extent the receiver/uplink side has been battle-proven
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[09:12] <Chetic> cool
[09:13] <eroomde> but yes, being able to telnet into your hab would be fun
[09:14] <Chetic> maximum in-flight debugging capabilities
[09:14] <eroomde> does sound a bit dangerous though
[09:14] <Chetic> how so?
[09:14] <eroomde> relying on in-flight debug
[09:14] <eroomde> vs testing more thoroughly on the ground :)
[09:15] <FuzzyLemon> has anyone entered a team for gsbc?
[09:15] <eroomde> but i do dream of flying some kind of scheme interpreter on a hab
[09:15] <Chetic> of course it would be added on top of thorough testing on the ground
[09:15] <Chetic> not replace it ffs
[09:15] <Chetic> scheme interpreter?
[09:15] <eroomde> scheme because it's nice and writing an interprer for it is small
[09:15] <eroomde> as in, microcontroller-friendly small
[09:16] <Chetic> ah never tried it
[09:16] <eroomde> FuzzyLemon: what is gsbc?
[09:16] <eroomde> Chetic: it's Lisp
[09:16] <eroomde> a dialect of
[09:16] <Chetic> oh :)
[09:18] <eroomde> i'd hearily recommend you have a go
[09:18] <eroomde> heartily*
[09:18] <eroomde> getting the uplink reliable (not to say the downlink) will be moderately tough
[09:19] <eroomde> you'll need a decent amount of signal processing at the hab end
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[09:20] <Lunar_LanderU> morning
[09:21] <daveake> mornign
[09:22] <FuzzyLemon> global space balloon challenge
[09:22] <daveake> space eh?
[09:22] <fsphil> that would be more fun if it was actual space
[09:23] <daveake> Is 47km actual space? :p
[09:23] <daveake> what is the challenge anyway?
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[09:23] <eroomde> FuzzyLemon: links etc
[09:24] <daveake> http://www.balloonchallenge.org/
[09:24] <daveake> Ah, "The challenge will include competitions for Best Photograph, Best Design, Highest Altitude, and Best Experiment."
[09:25] <fsphil> well I know which country is going to get the altitude one
[09:25] <daveake> no way jose
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[09:28] <FuzzyLemon> if you fire a rocket off your balloon when it reaches max altitude then you might get into space. Then you could win highest altitude and best experiment
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[09:29] <daveake> And if you can get permission for doing that, good luck :)
[09:29] <fsphil> for the rocket you'd need to get >100km you may as well skip the balloon
[09:30] <daveake> At least then you can fill in the box labelled "Please enter launch position of rocket"
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[09:32] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: For rockets >>>1kg
[09:32] <fsphil> could a smaller rocket get >100km from 30km?
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[09:33] <fsphil> I don't know the sums
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[09:34] <SpeedEvil> Oh yes.
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> The atmosphere is 10 tons/m^2 or so.
[09:35] <SpeedEvil> If your rocket weighs much less than this, it gets asymptotically harder.
[09:36] <SpeedEvil> At below perhaps 100kg liftoff weight, you need to go to liftoff, accellerate to mach 0.8, and then coast at that for 60+s
[09:37] <eroomde> who are the peepenpoopers organising?
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[09:55] <daveake> eroomde The "project manager" was here last week as saadzmirza
[09:56] <daveake> He's putting a 300g payload under a 4000g Kaymont iirc
[09:56] <daveake> £1000 of rubber
[09:57] <daveake> Ah, $900
[09:57] <daveake> cheap then :/
[09:57] <fsphil> the hwoyees don't seem to get any better above 1600g
[09:57] <fsphil> maybe kaymont will be different
[09:57] <daveake> I'm not sure we have enough data to say that for sure
[09:58] <daveake> Not been many 2000g flights let alone 3000g
[09:58] <fsphil> mmm
[09:59] <SpeedEvil> How does balloon rubbing work?
[09:59] <SpeedEvil> That is - attach 2 1200g to a 20m string with a payload underneath
[10:01] <daveake> Well, as the payloads now are <3% of the balloon mass, almost all of the gas is there to lift the balloon, plus a bit more for lift, and hardly any to hold the payload.
[10:02] <daveake> So all you're doing is sharing 50g of payload between 2 balloons
[10:02] <daveake> and risking that the rubbing will cause an early failure
[10:02] <daveake> So, can't see the point
[10:05] <fsphil> net the two balloons, both nets attached to eachother. stops the rubbing, but extra weight
[10:05] <daveake> but still no point
[10:05] <gonzo__> assuming you get the differentialn lift correct to keep one balloon above the other
[10:06] <eroomde> there have been a number of 3000g kaymont flights
[10:06] <daveake> You're still piutting in almost the same amount of gas in each one, assuming zero weight for the net, as you'd put in a single balloon
[10:06] <daveake> eroomde with small payloads?
[10:06] <eroomde> small by 2008/9 standards
[10:06] <daveake> :)
[10:06] <eroomde> 100/150g?
[10:06] <daveake> yes
[10:07] <eroomde> my recollection is that they were quite variable
[10:07] <eroomde> i'd really use them more for heavy lifting
[10:07] <eroomde> we never got above 40km with one
[10:07] <eroomde> though that was the goal
[10:08] <eroomde> i think the hoywee 1600 was the first ukhas flight above 40km infact
[10:08] <daveake> Might be worth a try, with 50g and h2, but mucho $$
[10:08] <eroomde> i'd not be convinced - the latex or whatever they uis is different
[10:08] <eroomde> just not the same league of stretchy as hwoyeyeoswee
[10:09] <daveake> Ah I was thinking 300g hwoyee but not sure they do one
[10:09] <daveake> 3000
[10:09] <daveake> Steve does £290
[10:09] <daveake> a bit ouch if you don't get a "good" one
[10:11] <eroomde> indeed
[10:11] <daveake> I think my Buzz 2 was the first to crack 40km
[10:11] <eroomde> i'd save 'em for when you need to haul >=10kg up into the high 20s/low30kms
[10:11] <daveake> ah no, was darkside
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[10:17] <fsphil> we need thinner balloons
[10:23] <gonzo__> just go higher, they will get thinner
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> we need no balloons
[10:23] <gonzo__> that would really cur down the weight
[10:23] <gonzo__> cut
[10:23] <daveake> Use light. bounce it off the moon.
[10:24] <daveake> no notam needed either
[10:24] <daveake> and you can "recover" at the "launch" site
[10:24] <LeoBodnar> uk mooning society ?
[10:24] <gonzo__> could get arrested
[10:25] <gonzo__> just point a big arsed tx at the moon and bounce the signals back. Though thik that may have been done already
[10:25] <gonzo__> (that's a big arsed tx, not just a big arse!)
[10:26] <daveake> damn
[10:26] <daveake> don't have that
[10:26] <gonzo__> what the big tx?
[10:26] <daveake> nope
[10:26] <daveake> just the big arse
[10:27] <gonzo__> on cue!
[10:27] <daveake> plus I'm about to order a shack (I call it a man shed, but we all know what it really is)
[10:28] <daveake> so now I need sandals, a beard and poor personal hygiene
[10:28] <gonzo__> the imagry of it all amuses me, sort of a perverted werewolves convention on some hilltop at full moon, in full moon
[10:29] <gonzo__> and one of those special brown cardigans with the leather buttons
[10:29] <daveake> and elbow pads?
[10:29] <gonzo__> those go wiothout saying
[10:29] <daveake> ofc
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[10:59] <srp84> g'morning. i'm looking to put together a radio system for a HAB. In the past I've used the NTX2 module and it's been good, but now I've moved to the USA and am unable to use it. Can anyone recommend a drop-in replacement for the NTX2 that can be bought in the USA? I have been looking at the TX2A, it seems fairly close...
[11:03] <eroomde> this doesn't answer your question (I don't know) but there are radiometrix modeules that will work for US APRS frequencies
[11:04] <gonzo___> I think it is only the ntx2 series that will allow the narrow deviation we use for rtty in the uk
[11:04] <gonzo___> tx2 have a ttl imput?
[11:06] <mfa298> if you're doing license free check that your in a band that's license free (from memory 434 requires a license in the USA)
[11:06] <mfa298> you might need to go up to 915 for license free space.
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[11:18] <Upu> its debatable whether you can use the NTX2B in the States
[11:18] <Upu> officially you need an amateur license
[11:18] <Upu> unofficially you can use them license exempt for telecommand usage
[11:19] <Upu> if you're transmitting continously you need a HAM license
[11:19] <Upu> for intermittant you don't I think but define intermittant
[11:20] <mattbrejza> <1% duty over a month? :P
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[11:27] <fsphil> annoyingly ofcom thought of that for the UK bands
[11:27] <fsphil> duty percentage is by the hour
[11:28] <fsphil> the FCC might not have :)
[11:28] <mattbrejza> sometimes they specify a max on time of about 1s if you read that other docuemnt hard enough
[11:29] <srp84> hmm, ok. i have a license - the main problem is actually purchasing the transmitter!
[11:29] <srp84> nowhere over here sells the NTX2, and i dont really want to have to do a lot of re-coding for a different transmitter
[11:30] <fsphil> hab supplies will post to the US
[11:30] <Upu> yeah don't get it from Lemos I'm cheaper
[11:30] <srp84> shipping is expensive, though, so i was hoping for a cheaper option :)
[11:31] <Upu> its cheaper with shipping that it is from Lemos without
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[11:31] <Upu> also
[11:31] <srp84> what i should have done is brought one of my old modules with me, but i didnt think that one through!
[11:31] <Upu> the ones I sell are frequency agile
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[11:31] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/HAB%20Supplies%20Datasheets/HAB-NTX2B-FA.pdf
[11:35] <fsphil> does the command get AM modulated into the carrier?
[11:35] <Upu> do what ?
[11:36] <daveake1> By my count, that's 3 flights on .650 on Saturday
[11:36] <daveake1> The hams will be please :/
[11:36] <daveake1> d
[11:36] <fsphil> if the command is being sent through the EN pin, does the radio get switched on and off while the command is being sent?
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[11:37] <mattbrejza> persumably the pin needs to be low for a period longer than a few bit periods
[11:38] <srp84> lemos seems cheaper, btw. 15.67 GBP compared to 21.07
[11:38] <srp84> (pre-shipping)
[11:39] <daveake1> mattbrejza Upu "grabbed" .650 for Satuday a while back, but we can fly a .075 instead
[11:39] <mattbrejza> originally we said we could tweek up a bit, and you could tweek down a bit
[11:39] <mattbrejza> but that works too
[11:39] <daveake1> ah yes
[11:40] <daveake1> I remember now :)
[11:40] Action: daveake1 is old
[11:40] Nick change: daveake1 -> daveake
[11:40] <Upu> see PM srp84
[11:40] <mattbrejza> i thought you were already using 075 + 650?
[11:40] <daveake> Upu grabbed both but we only need 1
[11:40] <mattbrejza> ok
[11:40] <mattbrejza> so no need to tweek then
[11:41] <daveake> No unless anyone else is using .650, no :)
[11:41] <mattbrejza> or would you rather use 648?
[11:41] <mattbrejza> well there is a 650 in france, but sdma ftw
[11:41] <daveake> Nah it's fine I have 2 otherwise identical boards I'll just use the 075 one
[11:41] <mattbrejza> ok thanks
[11:41] <daveake> ah yes France
[11:41] <daveake> Too far for me to worry about :)
[11:43] <Upu> yeah looks like Lemos put their prices down however 2 things srp84 : 1/ Mine are NTX2B's with TCXO 2/ Mine are frequency agile and if that does't cut it for you read your private message
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[11:49] <srp84> thanks for the help, all
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[11:50] <mattbrejza> what time are you launching? are we gonna have 10 in the air at one?
[11:50] <daveake> Our slot is noon - 4pm. I don't think it'll be at the start of the window :/
[11:50] <mattbrejza> oh ok, will be somewhat staggered then
[11:51] <daveake> Also we won't be launching our 2 together
[11:51] <mattbrejza> ok
[11:51] <mattbrejza> the intention is for ours to go up together, but we shall see
[11:52] <mattbrejza> also have to fill two balloons fairly from 9m3
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[11:58] <SpeedEvil> mattbrejza: some decent bathroom scales?
[11:58] <mattbrejza> biggest issue is the wind and getting an accurate fill reading
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[12:09] <SpeedEvil> I was meaning on the cylinder
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[12:10] <SpeedEvil> Make something to hold the cylinder vertical - put on scales. Clamp the hose to something, and adjust the height of the clamp until the weight is the same as the cylinder without hose
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[12:11] <SpeedEvil> Actually - never mind
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> I forgot it was helium
[12:11] <SpeedEvil> So you'd need some pretty good scales
[12:17] <fiftydollarsat> What the position on sending commands to a receiver in an airborne receiver, RC model or balloon, limited to 100mW on the 468Mhz RC control frequency ?
[12:18] <fiftydollarsat> I know a HAM cant transmit from an airborne device.
[12:19] <adamgreig> the general idea seems to be that if you're transmitting under a ham licence, it must be to other hams
[12:19] <adamgreig> i.e. you can't use the ham allocations to transmit to some licence-exempt device
[12:19] <adamgreig> but it's something of a poorly defined area
[12:19] <adamgreig> defined more by ofcom fiat once they get upset, it would seem
[12:20] <mfa298> someone asked ofcom about uplinking to a balloon using an AR callsign a year or so ago and the resposnse seemed to be you're probably ok doing it.
[12:20] <eroomde> yes - the person from ofcom said 'i am not a lawyer but' it should be alright to use your ham license to uplink, within the spirit, but just respect any inteference issues if they're brought up by other hams
[12:21] <fiftydollarsat> Very poorly defined, what I cant see a problem with is to transmit a message (balloon cutaway) on the basis of "hi other hams listening on the RX frequency, I am sending a cutaway message"
[12:22] <adamgreig> because your intent is obviously not to transmit to other hams, so far as that's the regulation
[12:22] <adamgreig> you're not transmitting to other hams at all, really.
[12:22] <adamgreig> but as ^ have said, it's probably ok anyway
[12:22] <g0pai_ian> I would have the receiver listen for a code sequence to screen out paraffin lamp signals and blitz it when needed. Call yourself as a test BZZZZ job done.
[12:22] <eroomde> i think she defined it as within the spirit of the remotely operated equipment rule
[12:23] <fiftydollarsat> Oh, I undestand the interferance issue, but transmissions are very short and the PA has a filter.
[12:23] <g0pai_ian> A touch of the " Do not answer, do not answer" third party stuff.
[12:23] <eroomde> i'd be fairly happy to use ham stuff for uplinks
[12:24] <eroomde> well, we did exactly that for several flights when were were uplinking in 2009
[12:24] <g0pai_ian> Paraffin lamp as in near Dave's shack . . :-)
[12:24] <fiftydollarsat> The other day I changed the $50SAT callsign; https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/50dollarsat/conversations/messages/339
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[12:26] <fiftydollarsat> 20W into a QF helix got me 2510km.
[12:26] <adamgreig> looks like a handful of mW into a dipole got you 2510km the other way, too
[12:27] <mfa298> this was the email I was thinking of https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/ukhas/nDoeUX7OqYs/6yP31IKMKO8J
[12:28] <mfa298> that might link to the end of the thread, the ofcom reply is in the first post.
[12:28] <eroomde> what's the data rate of fiddy-d-sat?
[12:28] <fiftydollarsat> Yes, but that was the Morse and RTTY. Limit for packets with an LNA in front of the RFM22 (with the same QF helix ) seems to be around 800km.
[12:28] <fiftydollarsat> eroomode: 1kbps
[12:29] <eroomde> sounds about right
[12:30] <eroomde> when you work it out, dipole to dipole with a 10mW tx over 100km, and a normal ham rig receiving, and some insertion losses, gives you a link budget of about 13kbps
[12:32] <fiftydollarsat> mfa298: Thanks for the link, seems a resonable approach. You would probaly use a yagi for commanding anyway, and then say 1W from a RFM23BP ought to get you around 300km.
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[12:39] <gonzo___> depends on the bandwidth of the rfm as a receiver, to the snr you will get
[12:47] <g0pai_ian> There is nothing in the regs to say that an intercept station (balloon) cannot copy a data call from your station to another pseudo terrestrial one. That the balloon may respond with an appropriate symbol in it's routine telemetry is likely to be seen as coincidental.
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[12:48] <fiftydollarsat> gonzo_: Two RFM22s with 1/4waves (not an ideal match) will work reliably hilltop to hilltop at 40km, 1kbps, 100mW.
[12:48] <g0pai_ian> You are not permitted to encrypt your messages, but that doesn't apply to your thoughts. "My tailor is rich" K
[12:48] <fiftydollarsat> So if you and an antenna with a gain of 10dB, and 10bB of extra power, thats 20dB or about 10 times distance.
[12:49] <g0pai_ian> Just poke it with 20W up a large yagi and be done with it.
[12:51] <fiftydollarsat> g0pai_ian: Could do, or more, the PA I have goes up to 60W, but a small handheld battery powered RFM23B based TX would be a lot more practical to carry around.
[12:53] <fiftydollarsat> Looked at using the RFM23BP for $50SAT, would have made a large differance to packet reception.
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[12:54] <fiftydollarsat> But you cant turn the power down much on the RFM23BP, and there was not the power budget to send out the Morse or RTTY when curent consumption was 500ma or so.
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[13:16] <g0pai_ian> fiftydollarsat: Whatever the ground transmitter or power level, it is an interesting experement to carry perhaps. A receiver that would cause inclusion of a response in the telemetry to guage reception quality from your ground station. Pre SixtyDollarSat of course . . .
[13:16] <amell> what freq is this 2pm UKC launch using?
[13:18] <eroomde> ALL OF THEM
[13:18] <eroomde> (it's a spark plug)
[13:18] <amell> MET BALLOON RELEASES WI 5NM RADIUS 511753N 0010351E (N OF
[13:18] <amell> CANTERBURY). ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT WILL SUBSEQUENTLY DESCEND BY
[13:18] <amell> PARACHUTE. CTC FOR LAUNCH INFORMATION, TEL 07411 933600.
[13:18] <amell> 14-04-0056/AS 5.
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[13:20] <amell> ooh. i see i have 5 payloads to track over cambridge this saturday. how exciting.
[13:21] <amell> and even an SSDV one. Even more exciting.
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[13:25] <eroomde> you've got the bug
[13:25] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
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[13:28] <amell> I wonder if I can get a free tracker this weekend,
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[13:30] <fiftdollarsat> g0pai_ian: Use $50SAT as a test. Send a test packet, it responds with the received RSSI in an ack packet, and the RSSI in FM Morse.
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[13:30] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[13:31] <fiftdollarsat> Or send a packet to request the FSK RTTY, thats easy to pick up on the ground, and the received RSSI is in the RTTY output.
[13:33] <amell> mattbrejza: why Churchill? Elsworth is closer for me :)
[13:34] <mattbrejza> theyre like next to each other :P
[13:34] <g0pai_ian> Further away is likely to keep you out of the pokey that little bit longer if you have free tracker aspirations amell :-) You are making the guys nervous . . .
[13:35] <amell> mattbrejza: yes, but elsworth means I dont actually need to drive anywhere.
[13:36] <amell> are you expecting them to float north or south of cambridge?
[13:36] <mattbrejza> south east
[13:44] <eroomde> amell: Churchill is where it's at
[13:44] <amell> Its not right
[13:44] <Upu> two for you to track tommorrow nigth there Amadiro
[13:44] <Upu> doh amell
[13:44] <eroomde> it was by far and away the busiest launch site from about 2006-2010
[13:44] <amell> HABs should be launched from muddy fields
[13:44] <eroomde> churchill has fields
[13:44] <eroomde> but it also has a bar
[13:44] <eroomde> and it also has brunch on a saturday morning
[13:44] <eroomde> which is what contributed to its use
[13:45] <amell> Elsworth has a pub.
[13:45] <eroomde> and it has le wifi
[13:45] <eroomde> actually we just bought 20MBit/s sat internet
[13:45] Action: daveake has fields and mud and wifi and bacon
[13:45] <eroomde> got 2 dishes to we can mount on one the roof of the landrover
[13:45] <eroomde> for field ops
[13:46] <amell> Does the porter not intervene?
[13:46] <eroomde> not if you're friends with all of them
[13:46] <eroomde> (I used to be at churchill, i used to run CUSF, the overlap of those two things is why churchill was tha main launch site)
[13:47] <eroomde> churchill was quite pro hab anyway
[13:47] <amell> Elsworth has a blue portaloo. Thats good enough for me.
[13:47] <eroomde> since teddies in space
[13:48] <eroomde> "normal-to-fast"
[13:49] <daveake> 1 normal 1 fast
[13:49] <daveake> 5 and 6.5
[13:49] <daveake> ish
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[13:51] <eroomde> also if the weather has been bad, getting out of elseworth field can be interesting
[13:52] <eroomde> you need to accelerate very gentle up to a good speed to have enough momentum to carry you up the mudbank onto the track
[13:52] <eroomde> cos you're sure as hell not going to get there with troque from your wheels
[13:52] <amell> No problems here with 4x4
[13:52] <daveake> I remember leaving to long tracks last time I tried to leave, before I remembered to engage 4x4 mode :p
[13:52] <daveake> two
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[13:53] <amell> malcolm and his trailer always seem to get out without help for some reason. surprising.
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[13:55] <eroomde> amell: are you a rocketeer?
[13:55] <eroomde> have i had this convo with you? apologies if so
[13:55] <eroomde> me and names
[13:55] <amell> eroomde: weve had this discussion before ;)
[13:55] <eroomde> yes i thought i might have
[13:55] <eroomde> i just have no memory for nicks
[13:55] <eroomde> or callsigns
[13:55] <eroomde> or anything
[13:55] <amell> yes, every rocket person knows who malcolm is.
[13:55] <eroomde> yes
[13:55] <eroomde> that's what made me ask
[13:55] <amell> the guy who walks round half naked in the summer.
[13:56] <eroomde> i remember seeing him on Have I Got News For You
[13:56] <amell> and some times in the winter too.
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[13:59] <eroomde> trying to find that pic of him on have i got news for you
[13:59] <eroomde> found soem chat logs from 2009
[13:59] <eroomde> i was so enthusiastic about all this then!
[13:59] <eroomde> what's happened
[14:00] <amell> why would he be on HIGNFY?
[14:00] <amell> that is surprising.
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[14:02] <eroomde> it was funny
[14:02] <eroomde> wish i could find it
[14:02] <eroomde> found it
[14:02] <eroomde> it was the end bit
[14:02] <amell> was he actually on the programme, or part of a joke
[14:02] <eroomde> 'and I leave you with news that as Trident looks to be renewed, Vince Cable takes matters into his own hands'
[14:03] <eroomde> http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1743/screenshot20100515at170.png
[14:03] <Laurenceb__> hahahaha
[14:03] <amell> lol. yes that is him
[14:03] <Laurenceb__> just this moment i was getting pissed with malcolm
[14:03] <Laurenceb__> go to irc and what do i see...
[14:03] <amell> whats up?
[14:03] <Laurenceb__> nothing in the post :-/
[14:04] <eroomde> that's malcolm
[14:04] <eroomde> stuff turns up
[14:04] <eroomde> just not on time
[14:04] <amell> oh i have that problem all the time. I just have a word with him at the next meeting.
[14:04] <amell> and somehow he magically produces a bag with my name on it.
[14:04] <eroomde> i was a bit in the middle of the shitstorn at bigrange 2012
[14:04] <eroomde> when we were the only people that had out Ns and Ms
[14:04] <eroomde> our*
[14:04] <eroomde> and the rebel guys stuff never turned up
[14:05] <Laurenceb__> so gnu octave doesnt allow more than 256plot windows...
[14:05] <Laurenceb__> yes i found this out :P
[14:06] <Laurenceb__> this is looking rather matlabby
[14:06] <Laurenceb__> https://www.gnu.org/software/octave/doc/interpreter/Interacting-with-Plots.html#XREFgtext
[14:07] <eroomde> switch to python like a normal human
[14:08] <Laurenceb__> heh
[14:08] <Laurenceb__> work stuff typically uses matlab
[14:08] <eroomde> be the change you want to make
[14:08] <Laurenceb__> so i usually get everything done fine in octave
[14:08] <adamgreig> why do you need more than 256 plot windows
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> more importantly, how do i close them?
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> a script went mad
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> theres now plots _everywhere_
[14:10] <adamgreig> kilall octave
[14:11] <eroomde> sudo apt-get remove octave
[14:11] <jonsowman> *purge
[14:11] <jonsowman> don't want any of that left :P
[14:11] <Laurenceb__> rofl
[14:12] <eroomde> i actually have no great beef with octave
[14:12] <adamgreig> I have a fun fish command
[14:12] <eroomde> although managing toolboxes was a horror
[14:12] <adamgreig> where I type "fuck off gedit"
[14:12] <adamgreig> and it
[14:12] <adamgreig> (o°¡° o5‡ pÝw
[14:12] <adamgreig> and then kill -9
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[14:34] <amell> just rm -rf / - that should take care of it.
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[14:36] <x-f> oopsie - http://gpsworld.com/glonass-gone-then-back/
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[14:36] <gonzo___> -Rf surely??
[14:36] <g0pai_ian> I once had reason to be very grateful for inodes when using rm -r once. I backed up too far and took out the final user on the Sparc box. He had an impromtu upgrade after advising not to log off as you won't be able to get back on if you do.
[14:40] <g0pai_ian> Glonass - Military exercising a concept?
[14:40] <amell> I once had an error in a program which basically wrote garbage to the swap partition. Took me a while to figure out why things kept crashing every time there was load on the box.
[14:44] <mfa298> maybe use dd if=/dev/random of=(/dev/sda /dev/hda /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s2) to be sure.
[14:45] <mfa298> although that last one might need to be /dev/rdsk not /dev/dsk
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[15:35] <amell> Did UKC go up today as planned?
[15:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its tomorrow
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[15:46] <mfa298> damn, you mean it's not friday already!
[15:47] <fsphil> nearly
[15:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> close
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[15:49] <x-f> almost
[15:52] <amell> Im pleased to announce that I have FINALLY ordered my Aircell 7 and N connectors.
[15:52] <amell> This means that the X-50 in a cardboard tube in my study, can actually be used.
[15:52] <g0pai_ian> Good on you amell.
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[16:05] <cm13g09> mfa298: wish it was :P
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[16:14] <ibanezmatt13> You know on AVRs when you do something like PORTD = (1 << PORTD0); and all that sort of stuff. Does anybody have any advice on what these things are? I see they're being used for controlling I/O on avr but I just don't see what these things are actually doing :P
[16:14] <ibanezmatt13> (I'm researching interrupts on AVR too btw) :)
[16:15] <adamgreig> PORTD is a variable whose address in memory is actually a byte that writes to/reads from the GPIO port D
[16:15] <adamgreig> you know how if you have a variable 'a' and you say 'a = 5' it stores '5' at the memory address of 'a'
[16:16] <adamgreig> and 5 is binary 0000 0101
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[16:16] <adamgreig> as it happens PORTD's address in memory is really connected up to the 8 pins PD0..PD7
[16:16] <adamgreig> so if you write PORTD=5 it stores 0000 0101 in that address in memory
[16:16] <adamgreig> which sets PD0 and PD2 to 1, and the others to 0
[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[16:16] <adamgreig> if you read PORTD, like a=PORTD; it stores the current values
[16:17] <adamgreig> if the pins are currently inputs it reads their voltage levels
[16:17] <adamgreig> if they're currently outputs it reads their current state
[16:17] <malgar> notam updates: they are now doing a flight route analysis in deep :( for my 500 g payload :( is it so risky? :\
[16:17] <adamgreig> malgar: country?
[16:17] <malgar> italy obviously
[16:17] <adamgreig> so if you do PORTD = PORTD | 1; it reads PORTD, ORs with 1 (sets the lowest bit), and writes that back
[16:17] <adamgreig> so only changes one thing
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> ah right. So if you said PORTD = 5, why does that store 0000 0101
[16:17] <adamgreig> malgar: it's not so risky but they may be very unused to it so want to be sure, that's their job
[16:18] <adamgreig> ibanezmatt13: because 0000 0101 is 5
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok, nevermind :)
[16:18] <adamgreig> (0 + 0 + ... + 0 + 4 + 0 + 1)
[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> yeah just realised, sorry
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13> adamgreig, I understand everything up to here: "PORTD = PORTD | 1; it reads PORTD, ORs with 1 (sets the lowest bit), and writes that back"
[16:19] <adamgreig> do you understand |?
[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> the OR, think so
[16:20] <adamgreig> so what's 5 | 2 ?
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[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> oh, I thought it meant "5 or 2" :/
[16:20] <adamgreig> guess you don't :P
[16:20] <adamgreig> you're thinking of ||
[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes
[16:20] <adamgreig> which is C for "logical OR", as in "is true if either a or b is true"
[16:20] <adamgreig> | is a bitwise OR
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13> ah, ok, I didn't know
[16:21] <adamgreig> as in, "is 1 if either bit is 1, 0 if both are 0, for every bit in the input"
[16:21] <adamgreig> so you really should probably learn about bitwise or/and/xor
[16:21] <adamgreig> and not
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, time for a google
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13> thanks :)
[16:21] <adamgreig> |, &, ^, ~
[16:21] <adamgreig> in C
[16:22] <mfa298> from memory the wikipedia page for bitwise operations is quite good at demonstrating them
[16:22] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll look that up now. So when they do 1 << PORTD0, the << has something to do with this bit stuff?
[16:22] <adamgreig> << and >> are bit shifts
[16:22] <aadamson> ibanezmatt13, just pull up windows calculator put it in programmer mode and convert some number to bin, then or it will different values, you'll see how it works
[16:22] <adamgreig> a << b returns a shifted left by b bits
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13> right, sorta makes sense. I'll do a bit more research with this info. Thanks! aadamson, I'll have a play with that too :)
[16:23] <mfa298> I've often used en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operations_in_C as a quick reference for remembing some of the bitwise operations (mostly shifts)
[16:24] <aadamson> they use that kinda of stuff to set and check bits. Lots of times *flags* or control features will be implemented as *bits in a byte* not a whole bit.
[16:24] <ibanezmatt13> I'll read that now mfa298
[16:24] <aadamson> Think about it if you wanted just on or off on a flag, you can save space by using a bit
[16:24] <aadamson> instead of a 0 or 1 integer
[16:25] <aadamson> so you can and and or things to set and check individual bits (or ranges of bits)
[16:25] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I can see how this works now. It reminds me of, shift registers or something like that, for LEDs
[16:25] <aadamson> well maybe multi segment LED's, but yet
[16:25] <aadamson> yeah
[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah I mean like if you have 8 LEDs each connected to the 8 pins of the shift register IC thing.
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[16:28] <aadamson> it's used in lots of things, not just to track flags and features, but also to control things. BCD is just another form of bit control/math/features/etc ;)
[16:30] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: same guy, same tutorial series, looks at the bit manupilation one
[16:31] <ibanezmatt13> haha, I'm already on it :)
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[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[18:37] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> how's life?
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[19:30] <sp2ipt> hi
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[19:37] <mattbrejza> anyone got any ideas why a gps owuld do this: http://imgur.com/0OJ78c9
[19:38] <eroomde> what the f am i looking at
[19:38] <eroomde> i can't read any of the text
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[19:39] <mattbrejza> thats ucentres output of sat strength vs time
[19:40] <mattbrejza> the point being that within a couple of strings its reckoned its seen 17 sats
[19:40] <mattbrejza> the text on the left is what satellite
[19:40] <mattbrejza> the right is a scale
[19:41] <eroomde> i think you can see in theory up to 16 max at any one time
[19:41] <eroomde> any more could be picking up other birds?
[19:41] <eroomde> glonass perhaps
[19:42] <mattbrejza> the antenna is potentially a bit damaged, but why would that result in it seeing more than it should :/
[19:43] <eroomde> shouldn't
[19:43] <eroomde> obv
[19:43] <Laurenceb> hehe glonass
[19:44] <Laurenceb> bet someone lost their job
[19:44] <sp2ipt> mattbrejza: do you see them at the same time? maybe it's just a log over time
[19:44] <mattbrejza> each square is 1sec
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[19:45] <eroomde> maybe it's a problem with your avr
[19:45] <mattbrejza> its a neo, and thats its usb interface
[19:46] <eroomde> i was joking
[19:46] <eroomde> at someone's expense
[19:47] <mattbrejza> oh derp, yea doing too much at once here
[19:57] <Laurenceb> what the heck just happened to wikipedia
[19:57] <Laurenceb> they changed all the fonts
[19:57] <Laurenceb> i dont like it :-/
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[19:58] <Laurenceb> apparently it called "vector skin" :(
[19:59] <eroomde> the heading font?
[19:59] <eroomde> that's gone all serify?
[20:00] <Laurenceb> "Did I ask for this?
[20:00] <Laurenceb> No, most likely not. But change is not bad; Wikipedia will have to evolve and there are bound to be some things you might not like"
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[20:04] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb: I like this font :P
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[20:15] <LeoBodnar> ffs changing font is not "evolve" and not even "progress"
[20:17] <Laurenceb> when t-rex changed his fonts he became a mammal
[20:17] <mfa298> it is if you're the marketing guru that makes lots of money from getting a company to spend money on a new font as their corporate identity.
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[20:30] <g0pai_ian> Getting others to accept stupid ideas is Marketing and keeps Marketing guys in a job. Getting others to subsequently buy from them is a problem for the Sales dept
[20:31] <Laurenceb> heh
[20:31] Action: Laurenceb has been running some tests on glues for pneumatic assemblies
[20:31] <Laurenceb> pvc/polycarbonate/nylon
[20:32] <Laurenceb> i tried epoxy and a range of hardware store superglues, and loctite 424
[20:32] <Laurenceb> only the loctite 424 is holding after 8months
[20:32] <aadamson> yeah, we have a radio and a DPLL, and it even works - amazingly!
[20:32] <g0pai_ian> I guess that most of the glues are great until the equipment halts for a short while and things go banannas. A bit like honey or wax processing where things can solidity overnight
[20:32] <aadamson> or should I say amazing that it does
[20:32] <Laurenceb> strength seems to be same as new
[20:32] <Laurenceb> very interesting
[20:33] <Laurenceb> literally everything else ive tried fails
[20:33] <Laurenceb> id like to know what they have done to this glue
[20:33] <aadamson> oh, and if anyone is curious... to come up with the right tone shift for THOR etc... you need a XO of 32,768mhz :)
[20:33] <aadamson> and the si part will tune that even if it is out of it's range
[20:33] <g0pai_ian> Given the number of assemblies that are glued together today it has to be something to keep out of the hands of the Marketing dept
[20:34] <Laurenceb> heh
[20:34] <Laurenceb> next up i need a way to glue flexible polyurethane to kapton flexipcb
[20:34] <Laurenceb> i suspect that will be about an order of magnitude harder
[20:35] <aadamson> the math above is just because it uses a 2^21 multiplier so once you take that down to the right shifts you end up with a 32,678khz xo :)
[20:35] <Laurenceb> also this stuff is a massive pita as ideally you have to leave it in a warm room for the entire warranty period of the kit you are designing
[20:35] <Laurenceb> to check for degradation with time
[20:36] <g0pai_ian> The customer will leave it out in a shed over winter laurenceb :-)
[20:36] <Laurenceb> hopefully...
[20:37] <Laurenceb> cold is good as there no plasticizer issues
[20:37] <Laurenceb> *+are
[20:38] <Laurenceb> epoxy was falling straight off my pneumatics consistently after 3months or so
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[20:43] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb: take a look on Sika products - probably you'll find another good one
[20:43] <Laurenceb> interesting, thanks
[20:45] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb: I've glued a few things with sikaflex - it looks like grey silicone. I couldn't do anything but cut it.
[20:45] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb: a friend told me later they are using it on ships to glue inox/alu stuff to the deck
[20:45] <Laurenceb> ok
[20:46] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb: after a eyar on the sea and in africa's climate it is possible to tear away the glued stuff :D
[20:47] <aadamson> if you look at what glues the RV (kit built airplane) guys use for their windscreen, you'll find a higly flexible, but extermely good bonding glue... it may well be the sika stuff, I can't remember
[20:47] <Laurenceb> is it silicone based?
[20:48] <aadamson> no
[20:48] <Laurenceb> ah PU
[20:48] <aadamson> its epoxy based I believe
[20:48] <Laurenceb> very nice
[20:48] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb: no
[20:48] <Laurenceb> it seems to be flexible PU
[20:48] <Laurenceb> this would be perfect
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[20:48] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb: it's elastic but not too much
[20:48] <Laurenceb> should bond kapton pcb and polyurethane nicely
[20:49] <Laurenceb> ill give it a go
[20:49] <Laurenceb> thanks for the suggestion
[20:49] <sp2ipt> hppy testing :)
[20:50] <aadamson> yeah the RV guys use sika too
[20:50] <sp2ipt> if u'd ever be looking for good paint - also check sika :)
[20:50] <aadamson> I just checked
[20:51] <Laurenceb> nice, i was searching loctite and places for a flexible PU glue for this, i should have checked elsewhere :P
[20:51] <sp2ipt> don't know how in G but in SP almost all power line towers are painted with sika paints
[20:51] <sp2ipt> and they do survive years and years after taht
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[20:54] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/Copernicus/Sentinel-1/Watch_Sentinel-1_launch
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[21:05] <LeoBodnar> what a beautiful boosters separation
[21:05] <amell> i missed the launch, successful? asking as there seems to be some debris.
[21:05] <LeoBodnar> boring as a London bus
[21:05] <malclocke> looked like one of my kerbal separations :)
[21:05] <LeoBodnar> no drama
[21:06] <mikestir> needs more T-1 second aborts
[21:06] <mikestir> and on-board video
[21:06] <amell> shuttle launches were always fun
[21:06] <amell> I saw challenger, made me jump.
[21:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> Amazing to see a rocket with a basic design that's 50 years old...
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> i can see a scope for job cuts in this mission control centre
[21:08] <amell> whoa veronica
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> they could have at least pretended they are doing something
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[21:17] <eroomde> most rockets have a basic design that's 50 years old
[21:17] <eroomde> for scary failures
[21:20] <Babs____> They aren't joking when they say it has the explosive power of a small nuclear device
[21:20] <chrisstubbs> Just read this in a list of changes im doing for someones site: "we need some photos of sea critters (is 3 too many ?? what do you think?)" send help
[21:21] <Babs____> Given it's just helium and oxygen going up, does it rain afterwards ?
[21:22] <mattbrejza> s/helium/hydrogen/
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: It's interesting how many people see something at a distance, and have the immediate rational thought about speed of sound, and maybe they might consider running even though there is no noise
[21:23] <mattbrejza> also first stages dont tend to be h2/o2
[21:23] <Babs____> Omg I meant hydrogen and oxygen - I was up at 5am yesterday and have only just stopped
[21:23] <Babs____> Please. Everyone. I am not an intellectual moron.
[21:24] <Reb-SM3ULC> zeusbot: oops, never seen that
[21:24] <Babs____> Its going to be on the logs for eternity
[21:24] <Babs____> They will revoke my physics a level
[21:25] <Babs____> God. Chemistry even.
[21:25] <Babs____> See you all when I have had some sleep.
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[21:27] <Reb-SM3ULC> a "favourite" , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeS8GvLh1Jo
[21:27] <eroomde> http://wathifi.tumblr.com/
[21:29] <amell> Reb: Thats an old chestnut, all because someone put a sensor in upside down.
[21:31] <Reb-SM3ULC> amell: i like the video because the sense of force and the obvious slowness of sound in air
[21:33] <Reb-SM3ULC> amell: then again, sensors the right way.. same units when building thing.. make stuff go more in the direction one hopes...
[21:36] <arko> "
[21:36] <arko> & helped the sound retain cohesion and musicality, although it became apparent that detail was sapped, while the overall performance became slightly thin and lacking in body.
[21:36] <arko>  A £20 USB cable
[21:36] <arko> "
[21:36] <arko> wtf
[21:37] <ulfr> audiophile?
[21:37] <ulfr> They're the worst.
[21:37] <Upu> wait till you get to the £500 cat 5 cable
[21:37] Action: arko closes tab
[21:37] <arko> i cant russle my jimmies any longer
[21:37] <mikestir> I've seen a $20k mains lead somewhere
[21:38] <arko> mended by god himself?
[21:38] <arko> in the fountain of angel tears
[21:38] <mikestir> made of purest conductive unicorn hair
[21:38] <arko> haha
[21:38] <ulfr> haha
[21:38] <arko> crazy kids
[21:39] <arko> i wonder if audiophiles started out as like one guy who really believed and thought this stuff, and everyone else joined in to troll
[21:39] <arko> he then left, and now this whole world is just everyone trolling each other
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[21:40] <mikestir> you can get these little porcelein pyramids for resting your oxygen free gold speaker cable on because resting it on the floor causes some of the electrons to leak out
[21:41] <amell> pathetic
[21:41] <Reb-SM3ULC> ulfr: tell me about it.. i work the swedish version of bbc...
[21:41] <amell> http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Digital-Audio-Ethernet-Connection/dp/B003CT2A6I/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
[21:41] <amell> 1 left in stock!
[21:42] <amell> read the reviews
[21:42] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: a store here sold shielded mains cable, 2 m long.. what about the rest of the 20000 km cable to the waterfall....
[21:42] <mikestir> arrows on speaker cable. wtf? did no one tell them it's AC?
[21:43] <amell> http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-NRG-WEL-Signature-Series/dp/B0055OM9WS/ref=pd_sim_sbs_e_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1AEA6B59K237YP9MYRR4
[21:43] <mikestir> Reb-SM3ULC: See also shielded ADSL cables
[21:43] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: haha, mmm, will sleep good on that one
[21:45] <amell> pmsl at the reviews
[21:48] <amell> question re frequency agile NTX - is there any reason why ppl might want to change frequency in flight?
[21:48] <SpeedEvil> amell: interference
[21:48] <amell> okay, but how would the payload know there was interference?
[21:49] <Upu> amell no but you can put it in your code so when it powers up it selects a certain frequency
[21:49] <mfa298> amell: not necessarily in flight. But if you're flying on the same day as someone else it's nice not to have them clashing as has been almost the case on a few occasions - sometimes only no clash due to launch times
[21:49] <SpeedEvil> Or that.
[21:49] <amell> i understand that, just wondering if theres any reason why you would want to do it in flight.
[21:50] <Upu> also if you use a tracker twice you may want another frequency the second time
[21:50] <Upu> previously the NTX2 was only availble in 075 and 650
[21:50] <Upu> and it still causing issues
[21:50] <Upu> ask mattbrejza
[21:51] <Upu> Does anyone know what the frequency of UKC_WTMS is tommorrow ?
[21:52] <Upu> when I asked they just said 434 :/
[21:52] <Upu> unless the mean 434.434 but I doubt it
[21:52] <mattbrejza> talking of which
[21:52] <mfa298> I suspect it's limited range anyway following a FB link suggested it's burst around 6000 ft
[21:52] <SIbot> In real units: 6000 ft = 1829 m
[21:52] <mattbrejza> one backup tracker has a dodgy gps antenna
[21:52] <mattbrejza> so its backup-backup tracker time
[21:53] <mattbrejza> however thts on 075 :S
[21:53] <ulfr> Reb-SM3ULC: Tell you about what?
[21:53] <amell> the predict looked like it could land in the thames estuary
[21:54] <mattbrejza> Upu: what trimmer is freq control on the ntx2?
[21:54] <Upu> good question
[21:54] <Upu> its on the wiki I think
[21:54] <mattbrejza> upper one
[21:54] <Upu> With the module oriented such that the holes are facing you & the pins facing downwards, the upper adjustment screw is frequency adjustment - perhaps adjusting loading on the crystal. Testing with a 434.650MHz NTX2 I was able to push the frequency about 15KHz either way before the oscillator became unstable.
[21:55] <mattbrejza> ill go up 3khz then
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[22:02] <Upu> 3khz up on the 650 ? ok
[22:02] <Upu> if we need it we'll go 3 down
[22:02] <Upu> but we have 2 cut down boards with 075 and 650 on them
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[22:04] <Upu> buy some -FA ones :)
[22:04] <mattbrejza> this would all be fine if my max7 boards worked
[22:05] <mattbrejza> or rather i could get lock inside the house to actually test them
[22:05] <Upu> chip antenna ?
[22:05] <mattbrejza> yea
[22:05] <Upu> tbh sometimes when I test them at home (window) I can hardly get any sats. come back an hour later and turn them on and get a lock almost instantly
[22:06] <Upu> sure its whatever's in the sky view at that time
[22:06] <mattbrejza> im gonna have to sit in the garden to make sure they actually work
[22:06] <mattbrejza> do you still stock max6? new boards might have max6 instead
[22:06] <Upu> I have some MAX6G's you're welcome too
[22:06] <Upu> but all the 6Q's have gone
[22:07] <Upu> but I don't think they lock any quicker (the 7Q's)
[22:07] <mikestir> with the max6 I found that if I put it out in the garden until it had lock, I could usually then bring it right indoors and still retain a fix
[22:07] <Upu> I can put identical 6Q and 7Q boards next to each other if you want
[22:07] <Upu> not tried that
[22:07] <mattbrejza> well it may be interseting to see, in my tests theres a massive difference
[22:08] <mattbrejza> 6g are 3.3V?
[22:08] <Upu> if you use 1.8V then the 6G's are fine
[22:08] <mattbrejza> oh lol
[22:08] <Upu> :)
[22:08] <mattbrejza> well it can run off 1.8v tbh
[22:08] <mattbrejza> its only at 3.3v in case i want some io to it
[22:09] <Upu> I'm going to try a 6G on my pava to see what the difference is between that and a 7C
[22:09] <mattbrejza> anyway should probably continue with this investigation after the weekeds launches :P
[22:09] <mattbrejza> so you have 075 as well?
[22:09] <Upu> yeah busy weekend coming up
[22:10] <Upu> yeah the NoNCE board we use for firing the rocket motor ignitor uses 075
[22:10] <Upu> we have a 650 one too
[22:10] <mattbrejza> yo uusing both?
[22:10] <Upu> no just one
[22:10] <mattbrejza> ok no need to screw with 075 then
[22:10] <Upu> k
[22:11] <mattbrejza> btw thats a lassen, still runs fine (i assume, havnt powered up yet :P)
[22:11] <Upu> Rob Harrison has piles of Lassens
[22:11] <Upu> so does daveake I think
[22:11] <mattbrejza> that they fly?
[22:12] <Upu> no
[22:12] <Upu> just in a box
[22:12] <daveake> yes several :/
[22:13] <daveake> Keep meaning to solder them up to cheapo arduino pros and some old ntx2s or rfm22bs and make some throwaway trackers
[22:13] <daveake> however Upu keeps throwing new trackers at me
[22:13] <daveake> and I keep failing to lose them
[22:13] <Upu> hah
[22:13] <ulfr> daveake: I got some tricks up in the sleeve to lose trackers
[22:14] <ulfr> Ship a balloon from Iceland and miscalculate the amount of gas is one...
[22:14] <mattbrejza> having the atenna casing touching the gnd plane is a good one for lassen pathc antennas
[22:15] <ulfr> hm?
[22:15] <Upu> you're in Iceland ulfr ?
[22:16] <Upu> with a name like that I'm rolling with yes as the answer
[22:16] <amell> leobodnars next target. fly a balloon to iceland.
[22:16] <Upu> James was discussing it a while back
[22:17] <Upu> if the Icelandics launched there were certain times of the year where we could land it in Scotland
[22:17] <eroomde> james and i were interested in launching from iceland
[22:18] <amell> not much margin for error
[22:18] <Upu> no
[22:18] <Upu> winds were more consistant
[22:19] <amell> uh oh, safety recall for nest protect.
[22:20] <mikestir> what's up with it?
[22:21] <ulfr> Upu: Yes.
[22:21] <amell> https://nest.com/uk/letter-from-the-ceo/
[22:21] <ulfr> amell: Good idea.
[22:21] <Upu> lovely country
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[22:21] <ulfr> eroomde: so, when can I expect you guys?
[22:22] <eroomde> winter
[22:22] <eroomde> northern light time
[22:22] <ulfr> eroomde: Good idea.
[22:23] <ulfr> winds are the most fun at that time
[22:23] <ulfr> You'll reach 500km+
[22:23] <ulfr> sea landing, alot of fun stuff
[22:23] <mikestir> amell: what a terrible idea. fire and CO alarms are no place for IoT gimmicks
[22:23] <amell> mikestr: thanks. I have one.
[22:23] <eroomde> would probably want to ascent quickly to try and punch through the jetstream
[22:24] <mikestir> amell: and you can wave at it to turn it off?
[22:24] <amell> yes
[22:24] <amell> but not any more :)
[22:25] <amell> i like it as when i get up in the night theres a glow that comes on so you can see where youre going without putting lights on
[22:25] <amell> it interacts with the thermostat, so it knows when people are in the house
[22:25] <mikestir> well you can solve that problem with a £5 plug in LED nightlight
[22:26] <mikestir> why does it need to know that? its remit is to detect fire and make a loud noise
[22:26] <amell> mikestr: you dont understand :)
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[22:44] <g0pai_ian> Does that mean that you wiggle the thermostat to register your presence. We just have the house up to a suitable living temperature when we expect to be there. Sometimes we wave at each other and know where the landing and other facilitiesis in the dark.
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[22:45] <g0pai_ian> s/facilitiesis/facilities are/
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[00:00] --- Fri Apr 4 2014