highaltitude.log.20140402

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[02:09] <saadzmirza> Hello
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[03:10] <malclocke> Hello all. I assume spacenear.us is driven with APRS data?
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[04:34] <K5KXF> anyone home interested in NBTV?
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[07:52] Nick change: danielsaul_alt -> danielsaul
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[08:32] <amell_> did sp3osj really double back on itself or is it just bad data?
[08:34] <Hade> Almost certainly bad data
[08:38] <UpuWork> it will be the aprs imported
[08:38] <UpuWork> its not day aware
[08:38] <UpuWork> so will be over writing
[08:38] <eroomde> i can relate to it
[08:38] <eroomde> not being day-aware
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[09:59] <eroomde> is ntrs.nasa.gov down for anyone else?
[10:02] <sp2ipt> eroomde: it works
[10:03] <eroomde> not for me
[10:03] <eroomde> that's annoying
[10:04] <sp2ipt> traceroute?
[10:05] <eroomde> bad request, from their server
[10:06] <sp2ipt> bad request doesn't mean the server's down
[10:06] <sp2ipt> what did u enter in search field?
[10:08] <g0pai_ian> I have four brief questions to ask regarding GPS derived Telemetry:
[10:08] <g0pai_ian> GPS messages read GPGGA and GPVTG only?
[10:09] <g0pai_ian> Longitude converted to decimal degrees 0 through 359.999999 ? Latitude converted to decimal degrees -89.999999 through 89.999999 ?
[10:09] <g0pai_ian> Speed over ground reported at kph ?
[10:10] <g0pai_ian> Those are my assumptions, which seem reasonable. Can anyone confirm whether I'm in error or otherwise please?
[10:10] <eroomde> g0pai_ian: it depends a bit on model, and for example with ublox receivers you can specifically tell it wehich nmea messages you want
[10:12] <g0pai_ian> Hi Ed, that's what I'm looking to ascertain. That I only need GPGGA and GPVTG to provide all GPS derived data required.
[10:12] <eroomde> in nmea, it's usually not decimal degrees being output, although there is a deciomal point in it just to confuse things
[10:12] <eroomde> but the format is degrees followed by decimal minutes
[10:12] <eroomde> so for example
[10:12] <eroomde> ddmm.mmmmm
[10:12] <eroomde> for latitude
[10:13] <eroomde> and dddmm.mmmmm for longitude
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[10:13] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm
[10:13] <eroomde> iirv, the vtg field gives speed in both knots and kph
[10:13] <eroomde> but yes, those two are probably enough
[10:14] <eroomde> gga is probably enought really
[10:14] <g0pai_ian> I am aware of that, but its the range 0 to 359.999999 degrees that I am concerned about. Degrees + (minutes / 60)
[10:14] <eroomde> to get the habhub standard messages
[10:14] <eroomde> time, position, number of sats etc
[10:14] <g0pai_ian> Thanks Ed.
[10:15] <eroomde> what's concerning about the range?
[10:16] <g0pai_ian> I believe that the Ublox puts out NS and EW info, I guess it's up to me to rationalise EW into 0 to 360 degrees
[10:17] <eroomde> +/- 180 usually
[10:18] <eroomde> - = W, + = E
[10:18] <g0pai_ian> Hmmmm. +/- 180 rather than 0 to 360 in the telemetry sentence?
[10:18] <eroomde> yes
[10:19] <g0pai_ian> Fine. Does that make two decisions around the world rather than one :-)
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[10:19] <g0pai_ian> I should get that far with an up and downer . . .
[10:20] <eroomde> :)
[10:20] <eroomde> just check the meridian-handling code
[10:20] <g0pai_ian> Many thanks, back to the blue touch paper before lunch :-)
[10:20] <eroomde> a number of people's string manipulation skills in C are testing by handling minus-signs
[10:21] <g0pai_ian> I boggle through. Love AWK though
[10:21] <eroomde> oh note that for nmea, rather than sending telem, the n/e/s/w indicators are explicity given
[10:21] <eroomde> so it's be:
[10:22] <eroomde> ddmm.mmmmm, N, dddmm.mmmmm, W ...
[10:22] <eroomde> so that'll always be positively signed
[10:23] <g0pai_ian> Rgr I would scale the degrees minutes to decimal degrees and apply the EW as plus and minus.
[10:24] <eroomde> yep, that seems to be The Right Way To Do It
[10:24] <eroomde> as much as there can be a right way to do things like this :)
[10:25] <g0pai_ian> I can see that you are used to explaining things and the answers regularly bounce as seen by the state of the recipient's eyes :-)
[10:25] <g0pai_ian> Sigh . . .
[10:28] <eroomde> well, i've been on this channel since there were about 4 of us, about 8 years ago, and the conversations have gone a bit from discussing parsers in C generally to a more just-want-a-quite-life-style "Oh just use an arduino and do it like this"
[10:29] <g0pai_ian> Just hopped from Picaxe to Arduino I'm afraid for strings and reals, so I'm closer to the latter than the former.
[10:30] <eroomde> i do find picaxe a bit upsetting
[10:30] <eroomde> i have nothign against it as a way of learning, but i'd have thought you'd quickly run into its limitations and move on
[10:30] <g0pai_ian> I do like to do my digging before crying for assistance though. The Picaxe is good for sensors, but quickly gets rather difficult to scale
[10:30] <eroomde> but there seem to be some die-hard defenders who make arguements i just don't understand
[10:32] <g0pai_ian> The stridently defensive often have an agenda or a hidden weakness to defend. There are many ways to skin a cat, I'm smart enough to know to listen to smarter people, but not slavishly so.
[10:33] <eroomde> indeed, it's always a balance of taking advice vs getting on quietly by yourself
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[10:36] Action: Laurenceb__ checks university good inwards webpage
[10:36] <Laurenceb__> Mr Mohamed 27/03/14 Fisher Scientific. Hydrogen peroxide solution 100 volumes 70+% EA Etc.
[10:36] <Laurenceb__> uh oh
[10:37] <eroomde> 70% is not enough to be too scary
[10:37] <g0pai_ian> Not HTP then?
[10:37] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[10:38] <SpeedEvil> I had an awesome supplier that was willing to ship 96% HTP to my house. Admittedly full pallets for 600e only
[10:38] <SpeedEvil> But they died
[10:38] <SpeedEvil> (commercially)
[10:39] <g0pai_ian> The only time I came across HTP was when they used it for Blue Steel and had to Jack up the aircraft to put that underneath.
[10:40] <eroomde> did you work on blue steel g0pai_ian ?
[10:41] <Laurenceb__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D519hT7-ytY
[10:41] <g0pai_ian> No I was a telegraphist. The BS was over the airfield a bit. I suddenly realise that I accidentally piqued your interest Ed, unintentional, I'm just a standard moron, not rocket powered . . .
[10:43] <g0pai_ian> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwMnEoC0gVg
[10:45] <eroomde> i'm a rocket powered moron
[10:45] <eroomde> in that i do rocket propulsion research
[10:45] <eroomde> and i'm going up to RAF cosford next weekend to see some of the older guys for the oral history conferences
[10:45] <eroomde> including a lot of the blue steel engine designers
[10:46] <eroomde> (the stentor engine)
[10:47] <g0pai_ian> I don't consider you a moron at all, and I realise your rocket affinity. I have been reading the channel for the last two weeks or more now.
[10:47] <eroomde> well seeing those guys can make you feel like a moron
[10:48] <eroomde> what they created with 60's tech
[10:48] <eroomde> every time i have a meeting with alan bond i come out feeling a bit mentally bruised
[10:48] <eroomde> in a good way
[10:49] <g0pai_ian> Stentor - make cheap student violins, I hope there is no relationship there . . . rocket powered violin, awesome.
[10:50] <g0pai_ian> Alan Bond - HOTOL I believe I had to check with Mr Google as somehow I had thoughts about Land Speed records and Olympus Engines . . .
[10:51] <eroomde> hotol yep
[10:51] <eroomde> and now skylon
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[10:53] <g0pai_ian> Neat. I think that I would feel safer with the electronics rather than the combustible end . . . I'm not lucky with fuel systems. Poured petrol down a drain to get rid of mosquito larvae, caught the can and poured too much but still lit it . . .
[10:54] <g0pai_ian> Bang . . . not a cockroach came out of that (outside) drain over 1/4 inch long for a month and more. Shook the wife when the bathroom lit up orange followed by a big bang.and the neighbours
[10:55] <eroomde> sounds like quite a good qualification for engine design actually :)
[10:58] <g0pai_ian> Same location - Singapore - lighter gas container. Extruded nozzle and concave bottom on the tube. Sat in a circularly triangular Carlsberg ashtray, sat inside a 20swg aluminium washing bowl (obsolete). more . . .
[10:59] <g0pai_ian> The rubber bung in the canister was leaky so filled up the lighter and went into the garden. Duraglit and a drop of white spitit in the ashtray, lit and took cover. Sort of expecting an explosion . . .
[11:00] <g0pai_ian> Big bang, white cloud of smoke that didn't want to disperse, but dob me in to all and sundry. Ashtray 6ft (gmorning Sibot) begind ali bowl . . .
[11:00] <SIbot> In real units: 6 ft = 1.83 m
[11:01] <g0pai_ian> Hole in bowl where the canister had puched through it . . . joining the dots to the Kampong (village) just beyond the garden fence where there was a bit of agitation.
[11:02] <g0pai_ian> Ashtray neatly die stamped by the bottom concave bottom plate of the canister as it departed and eventually spotted the cannister 12f t beyond the bowl . . . whew.
[11:03] <g0pai_ian> Fancied the newer plastic nozzled refil, scaffold tube and spiral of jetex fuse . . . never did do it. Sanity took over. That's as close as I got to rocketry other than a book that I carried around for three years.
[11:03] <g0pai_ian> End of story
[11:04] <g0pai_ian> I learned a thing or two from that incident!
[11:08] <eroomde> nice!
[11:08] <eroomde> what was the book?
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[11:13] <g0pai_ian> It was an American thick magazine format with a title Rockets and Missiles, must have been published around 1962. I sucked that publication up and was quite excited by it all.
[11:14] <g0pai_ian> Not a Book per se
[11:20] <g0pai_ian> Correction, "Missiles and Rocketry". Introduced the early history of NASA among other things.
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[11:31] <Laurenceb__> http://www.spaceuk.org/ba/ba.htm
[11:40] <eroomde> black arrow was gud
[11:42] <gonzo__> in 1962 rocketry and space was a seriously big thing
[11:43] <fsphil> the cancelling after the first successful launch was just awful
[11:43] <fsphil> actually before the first succesful launch
[11:44] <fsphil> I wonder how much it would cost to make a new one today
[11:44] <gonzo__> space is still seriously big, but the general population are not quite so captivated
[11:45] <eroomde> anything clean-sheet would be expensive
[11:45] <fsphil> as a clone of the R4 in the science museum
[11:45] <eroomde> i suspect black arrow, once you factor in its icbm heritage, would, today, be a billion dollar project
[11:45] <gonzo__> (you may think it's a long way to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts compared to space....)
[11:45] <fsphil> urg
[11:45] <fsphil> that's quite expensive
[11:45] <eroomde> yeah
[11:45] <eroomde> it depends on scale really
[11:45] <eroomde> it's all about amortizing the dev costs
[11:45] <fsphil> what's different about the modern launches that makes them cheaper?
[11:46] <eroomde> making a brand new engine is a really expensive business
[11:46] <eroomde> they're not cheaper
[11:46] <eroomde> modern launch costs are of that order
[11:46] <eroomde> the billion was refering to the dev program
[11:46] <eroomde> if you can amortize the dev program voer lots of launches, that's good
[11:47] <gonzo__> and the dresults of the dev filters down into the rest of the tech base
[11:49] <eroomde> sure
[11:49] <eroomde> but nebulous future benefits to society are very hard to sell to people setting budgets for a current project
[11:50] <eroomde> even the government now
[11:50] <fsphil> does the work on the likes of blackarrow help reduce costs on future development? or is it just too different
[11:50] <eroomde> if there are some patterns around still
[11:50] <eroomde> maybe
[11:50] <eroomde> but really unless it's the same people, costs are expensive
[11:50] <eroomde> as it's really all about people (now dieing off sadly)
[11:50] <eroomde> i'd want to start with a basically working enginer
[11:50] <eroomde> and design around that
[11:51] <eroomde> and praps look at some reusability
[11:51] <eroomde> engines from scratch are just expensive
[11:51] <eroomde> spaceX got all the fastrac work as a starting point
[11:51] <eroomde> the first merlins were very much born of that
[11:51] <eroomde> makes a lot of sense
[11:52] <eroomde> and then you can iterate
[11:52] <eroomde> just the upfront costs of a clean-sheet launcher are eyewatering
[11:53] <eroomde> years and years of burning capital before any prospect of income
[11:53] <eroomde> (i should know!)
[11:56] <eroomde> this is for a low-cost small-sat launcher
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[11:56] <eroomde> i'd be v interested in such a thing though
[11:57] <Lunar_LanderU> hello everyone
[11:58] <fsphil> goo evenin
[11:58] <Lunar_LanderU> just a short remark, RTTY works now with the new quartz, but to our astonishment there are some new errors
[11:58] <adamgreig> shocking
[11:59] <adamgreig> what are the new errors?
[11:59] <fsphil> oh really
[11:59] <Lunar_LanderU> for instance, the ID value at the beginning of the string which should start from 0 and increment by 1 per string starts at 25406 or something
[11:59] <adamgreig> how mysterious
[11:59] <eroomde> wait wait wait
[11:59] <eroomde> i need 30 minutes to recover
[11:59] <adamgreig> probably the crystal again
[11:59] <adamgreig> you should try 16MHz
[11:59] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[12:00] <daveake> I've found much better floating point accuracy when using a fast clock
[12:00] <eroomde> double precision per Mhz
[12:00] <adamgreig> you wouldn't think it could make so much difference
[12:00] <Lunar_LanderU> 16 MHz is just cutting it at 3.3V I think?
[12:00] <adamgreig> might need to go up to 5V to keep it stable at 16MHz
[12:00] <eroomde> don't Lunar_LanderU
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[12:01] <eroomde> stay with 8Mhz
[12:01] <eroomde> fix the bugs
[12:01] <adamgreig> perhaps for now just try setting the ID value to 0 at the start of your code
[12:01] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[12:01] <Lunar_LanderU> ah that is in
[12:01] <Lunar_LanderU> wait
[12:01] <Lunar_LanderU> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7193947/ line 27
[12:01] <eroomde> we always do
[12:02] <Lunar_LanderU> then it gets used in the string in line 177
[12:02] <Lunar_LanderU> and incremented in line 198
[12:02] <Lunar_LanderU> maybe something interferes, I will try to find out
[12:03] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks for the moment
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[12:04] <fsphil> might I suggest snprintf rather than sprintf
[12:05] <mattbrejza> anyone got the farnell part number for a sma plug that can be made up reasonably happily without the crimp tool?
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[12:10] <g0pai_ian> Lunar_LanderU: Always good to explicitly initialise variables. Some compilers play nice and initialise for you at 0, but others guarantee a large random number that will cause you infinite grief if you are not explicit.
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[12:11] <adamgreig> he is initialising it, to be fair
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[12:12] <sp2ipt> the number isn't random - it's what was in the memory at that address before
[12:12] <fsphil> that's being overwritten
[12:12] <g0pai_ian> Ah, thought that he had indicated that he wasn't originally . . . explained the strange behaviour . . . Oh, reuse of the variable . . .?
[12:12] <mattbrejza> try setting id to statoc
[12:12] <mattbrejza> *static
[12:12] <fsphil> ah
[12:13] <fsphil> nah. if id existed in one of the includes it should error
[12:13] <mattbrejza> it doesnt, ask jonsowman
[12:13] <fsphil> that's a worry
[12:14] <adamgreig> well it does in general
[12:15] <adamgreig> jonsowman was doing something minorly weird iirc
[12:15] <adamgreig> it could be reuse of the variable :P that seems most likely
[12:15] <adamgreig> especially with a name like 'id' on a global variable
[12:16] <mattbrejza> well what is probably happening is that 'id' is also global non static in another c file somewhere thats being linked into the same binary?
[12:16] <adamgreig> yea quite possibly
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[12:16] <mattbrejza> and that doesnt seem to through errors
[12:16] <adamgreig> probably id should be inside that function scope
[12:16] <mattbrejza> even if the varaiables are different types
[12:16] <mattbrejza> i would still be interested to see what happens if id is renamed or set to static
[12:18] <mattbrejza> also how can a datasheet for a sma connector not specify what type of coax is takes :/
[12:19] <adamgreig> it hopefully specifies dimensions?
[12:19] <mattbrejza> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1523052.pdf yea
[12:19] <mattbrejza> at a guess its rg174
[12:21] <Lunar_LanderU> g0pai_ian: thanks for the advice
[12:22] <Lunar_LanderU> we saw that we have int intrad in line 66
[12:22] <Lunar_LanderU> we changed it to "int intrad = 0" and the strange behaviour wa sgone
[12:22] <Lunar_LanderU> *was gone
[12:23] <mattbrejza> Lunar_LanderU: intrad isnt the id though :/
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[12:34] <Lunar_LanderU> that is true
[12:35] <Lunar_LanderU> but initializing that as well suddenly cleared the issue with the strange ID number
[12:35] <mattbrejza> so the code version you pasted didnt have the id not starting at 0 error?
[12:36] <eroomde> yo
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[12:36] <eroomde> i am talking to you on sattelite internet
[12:36] <adamgreig> cool
[12:36] <eroomde> the latency with typing is actually not as bad as i was thinking
[12:36] <eroomde> traceroute output is amusing
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[12:39] <Laurenceb__> what hardware?
[12:42] <fsphil> satellite internet isn't nearly as bad as I expected it
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[12:42] <eroomde> at a sat bb company in bicester
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[12:42] <eroomde> considering upgrading to them
[12:42] <eroomde> as our wireless link ot a roadside mast current is shit
[12:42] <eroomde> perilds of testing on an old airfield
[12:42] <eroomde> i'm getting about 20 Mb down, 2Mb up
[12:42] <eroomde> not too bad
[12:43] <Laurenceb__> nice
[12:43] <gonzo__> the useage is normally capped with those systems
[12:43] <eroomde> unlimited, we're promised
[12:45] <gonzo__> unlimited, the same as 3g unlimited?
[12:45] <gonzo__> ie with a crippling fir useage policy
[12:45] <gonzo__> fair
[12:46] <eroomde> gonna ask
[12:46] <fsphil> be nice if you could get a slower version, needing a lower gain antenna
[12:46] <fsphil> 1mbit/s from a payload anywhere in the uk :)
[12:49] <gonzo__> inmarsat have a low data rate system. Though it may just be a broadcast out, rather than uplink.
[12:49] <gonzo__> it's not 1Mbit. More like 10bd
[12:49] <g0pai_ian> Lol
[12:50] <eroomde> 10bd is respectable
[12:50] <eroomde> some solar missions only do that
[12:50] <eroomde> one of the coolest things i've ever seen was in JPL mission control
[12:51] <eroomde> they had a screen in the corner with a bunch of terminal windows with raw data from sats
[12:51] <g0pai_ian> The Lol was with regard to ISP and 10bd
[12:51] <eroomde> bottom-left one was voyager 1
[12:51] <eroomde> and i saw some telem strings come through
[12:53] <fsphil> nice
[12:54] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: sorry for long delays, I am moving around here
[12:54] <Lunar_LanderU> the code I posted had the error
[12:54] <Lunar_LanderU> and then we just modified line 66 to "int intrad = 0;"
[12:54] <eroomde> good team effort
[12:57] <eroomde> http://www.speedtest.net/result/3412660767.png
[12:57] <eroomde> not too bad
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[12:57] <fsphil> considering the distance it's going, yea
[12:57] <eroomde> (given it has to go to geosynchronous orbit)
[12:57] <fsphil> what power is the uplink?
[12:58] <eroomde> dunno
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[13:02] <eroomde> the amp at the focus had decent cooling fins
[13:03] <fsphil> neat that it's even possible. the radio on the satellite must be an impressive thing
[13:03] <eroomde> yep!
[13:04] <mfa298> if the network settings are tweaked suitably you should be able to get decent rates over a high latency link (but I think the defaults generally assume links are fairly short range)
[13:04] <fsphil> mosh would be ideal for it
[13:05] <eroomde> yes
[13:06] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping -> PM
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[13:18] <g0pai_ian> Question: "Ublox GPS messages", what checksum algorithm is used. Not telemetry sentences, Ublox GPS NMEA, is it XOR?
[13:20] <g0pai_ian> People normally check it?
[13:20] <eroomde> good idea to check it
[13:20] <adamgreig> think it's xor
[13:20] <fsphil> it is xor
[13:21] <fsphil> of all the bytes between the $ and *
[13:21] <aadamson> you know life sucks when you spend a whole evening scratching your head about why your I2C routines aren't working
[13:21] <aadamson> these are routines that you've used a million times and know work
[13:21] <aadamson> then you have a *duh* moment and realize, new target and you forgot to enable the I2C clock on this chip!!!
[13:21] <aadamson> shessh
[13:22] <fsphil> yay stm32
[13:22] <adamgreig> lol stm32
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[13:22] <aadamson> that gets me more times that I want to think about... /:)
[13:22] <eroomde> been there
[13:22] <mattbrejza> hmm just noticed its cheaper to buy a premade sma->sma cable then make one up yourself for an antenna :/
[13:22] <eroomde> arm-gcc should really have a compiler option
[13:22] <adamgreig> lol not surprised
[13:22] <eroomde> to warn if you haven't enabled the clock
[13:23] <g0pai_ian> Thanks Guys. A bit like keeping current backups . . .
[13:23] <eroomde> mattbrejza: some cables are terminated by monkies
[13:23] <eroomde> often a false economy
[13:23] <mattbrejza> well i was going to terminate it using a pair of pliers
[13:23] <mattbrejza> not sure which is worse
[13:23] <mattbrejza> i often use side cutters to crimp the central pin
[13:24] <eroomde> g0pai_ian: this doc is great if you've yet to find it: https://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/u-blox7-V14_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_Public_%28GPS.G7-SW-12001%29.pdf
[13:24] <mattbrejza> then when i cut the pin in half just solder the remaining part of the pin to the coax
[13:24] <fsphil> I hate crimping the center pin, I always just solder it
[13:24] <fsphil> they seem to crush very easily
[13:24] <mattbrejza> problem with soldering is that it melts the dielectric part
[13:24] <mattbrejza> then doesnt fit any more
[13:26] <eroomde> crimp
[13:26] <eroomde> don't solder
[13:26] <eroomde> crimping is basically the right answer for connectors
[13:26] <fsphil> is there a proper tool for crimping those pins?
[13:27] <adamgreig> like you even need to ask ;)
[13:27] <eroomde> :)
[13:27] <eroomde> there's always the right crimp tool
[13:27] <eroomde> we have a huber+schuener one
[13:28] <eroomde> their rf connectors are the best]
[13:28] <eroomde> but pricier
[13:28] <eroomde> dmc make a crimp tool for everything
[13:28] <fsphil> I thought I had a proper one but it just seemed to break them
[13:28] <aadamson> sounds like the intro for an old tool time (tim allen) show or something (probably US humor, but ya never know)
[13:29] <eroomde> http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/product/1624534/?grossPrice=Y&cm_mmc=UK|Shopping-_-Google+PLA-_-Amphenol|Cable+Crimpers-_-1624534&kpid=&istCompanyId=f7e7b05b-2daf-4c0e-8825-3633baf8113b&istItemId=xwipmxmiw&istBid=tzit&gclid=CPKcz6v0wb0CFZDKtAodglYAmA
[13:29] <g0pai_ian> Thanks Ed, that's the document that I am currently reading.
[13:30] <eroomde> ubx is interesting too
[13:30] <eroomde> (for later maybe)
[13:30] <jonsowman> perhaps mattbrejza doesn't want to spend £175 to crimp one sma connector ;)
[13:30] <mattbrejza> i could just slip it on a uni order...
[13:31] <eroomde> almost always worth getting eh right crimp tool
[13:31] <eroomde> SMAs are common enough
[13:31] <eroomde> likewise the proper sma torque wrech
[13:32] <mattbrejza> well in the end just bought the made up cable
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[13:32] <eroomde> (maybe that's being a bit anal)
[13:32] <jonsowman> eroomde: if you're doing more than like, 1 per year, I'd agree
[13:32] <mattbrejza> make sure your torque wrench is regulary calibrated too ;)
[13:32] <mattbrejza> wouldnt want to launch an under torqued antenna on a hab now
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[13:33] <eroomde> also amphenol's crimp tool will be upper end
[13:33] <eroomde> there are chinese clones for all of these
[13:33] <jonsowman> yeah
[13:33] <jonsowman> which are fine for the once/year user I guess
[13:34] <eroomde> yeah
[13:34] <eroomde> i'm just super convinced of the importance of good quality cables and connectors
[13:34] <eroomde> because bad ones almost walys cause problems, unless they're potted
[13:34] <jonsowman> oh agreed, it's just a shame the tools are so expensive
[13:35] <jonsowman> if they weren't I suspect more people would do it properly
[13:35] <eroomde> true
[13:38] <mattbrejza> you know youre buying a quality cable when you have to go by the picture to work out exactly what connector is on each end
[13:38] <mattbrejza> there are at last two ends, which doubles the chances of one of them being the right connector
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[13:40] <jonsowman> lol
[13:43] <mfa298> with the crimp tool and rg174 sma plugs I've got I found the pin crimps fine as long as you've folded the inner copper back on itself. if you just strip and crimp there isn't enough copper for it to grip.
[13:44] <mfa298> the mcx plugs are a pain though they're too small and fiddly
[13:45] <LeoBodnar> crimping and assembling a top quality connector is a Zen-like experience
[13:46] <LeoBodnar> you feel that you have achieved something worth-while with your life
[13:46] <eroomde> you do then spend a while admiring the cable you've made
[13:46] <LeoBodnar> and since crimping is a one-way road it makes you enjoy the view
[13:47] <eroomde> http://www.electroncom.ru/pdf/hs/RF_SMA_Catalogue_EN.pdf
[13:47] <eroomde> treat yourself mattbrejza
[13:47] <eroomde> farnell have 'em
[13:47] <mattbrejza> i have crimped those connectors properly before
[13:47] <mattbrejza> it was indeed very satisifying having previously obly used pliers
[13:48] <eroomde> another thing with rf connectors is that it's quite amazing how they attract little metalic hairs to go from the central conductor to the housing
[13:48] <mattbrejza> im also aware of the dangers of a dodgy cable. One i was using had a 1dB of variation in its attentuation over the frequency i was using it for
[13:49] <eroomde> someone i know who works with rf instrumentation always has a pack of cotton buds and ipa to hand
[13:49] <eroomde> so it can quickly clean the mating faces of rf connectors
[13:54] <zyp> «it»?
[13:54] <eroomde> i'm being gender-neutral
[13:55] <LeoBodnar> i have somewhere an IBM branded IPA dispenser bottle from 80's - it is still full.
[13:56] <Laurenceb__> they?
[13:56] <LeoBodnar> I think it was for cleaning 370 tape drives heads
[13:56] <eroomde> i get through a lot of ipa
[13:56] <LeoBodnar> did you get that flux removal stuff?
[13:57] <eroomde> not yet
[13:57] <eroomde> not made a pcb for a bit
[13:57] <eroomde> seems like 2014 has so far been just about mass-flow valves
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> it's ace for going through life in general
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> it's like long lost IPA twin brother
[13:58] <Laurenceb__> lemonene is epic stuff
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> Upu will probably concur
[13:59] <eroomde> limonene is epic for some applications, yep
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[13:59] <eroomde> i'm probably thinking of a different one tho
[13:59] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: ok will get some
[13:59] <Laurenceb__> ive found it good for cleaning stainless prior to blazing
[14:00] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: ok link me up on farnell
[14:00] <eroomde> will buy it right now
[14:01] <LeoBodnar> http://uk.farnell.com/electrolube/flu01l/fluxclene-tin-1l/dp/298189?Ntt=298189
[14:02] <LeoBodnar> actual container is not that sinister looking, just a 1L bottle
[14:02] <eroomde> thanks
[14:02] <eroomde> how do you use it?
[14:02] <eroomde> pcb in a bath of it?
[14:02] <LeoBodnar> actual - http://au.element14.com/productimages/farnell/standard/1256945-40.jpg
[14:03] <eroomde> or toothbrush smaller qtys?
[14:03] <eroomde> ultrasonic bath with DI water?
[14:03] <LeoBodnar> toothbrush or cotton bud or shallow tray
[14:04] <Laurenceb__> i fond some of these things dissolve IC lables
[14:04] <eroomde> there should be an electronics badgerbrush
[14:04] <eroomde> clean, bake, conformal coat
[14:04] <eroomde> all on one big conveyor belt
[14:04] <eroomde> that'd be useful
[14:05] <LeoBodnar> test wrap sell
[14:05] <LeoBodnar> vending machine format
[14:06] <eroomde> we have a continuous bag-tube+ heat-sealer thing
[14:06] <eroomde> that's quite useful
[14:06] <Laurenceb__> some atmega168 use silkscreened labels iirc
[14:06] <Laurenceb__> they dissolve in Lemonene
[14:06] <LeoBodnar> saves you from grinding them with a dremel
[14:07] <eroomde> limonene with an I, Laurenceb__
[14:07] <Laurenceb__> lemons :P
[14:07] <Laurenceb__> how do i spelling
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[14:13] <Lunar_LanderU> I think there is something intrinsically wrong
[14:14] <Lunar_LanderU> as soon as the programmer is unplugged from the ICSP connector, the thing goes nuts as described
[14:17] <LeoBodnar> this is des-criptic
[14:18] <Laurenceb__> http://www.linear.com/product/LT8301
[14:18] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: can you unplug the programmer, then reset the circuit, then observe what's happening?
[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> I did that, yes
[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> it basically continues to generate the wrong numbers
[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> even after completely cutting the power to the board
[14:21] <eroomde> you're running onf ree energy?
[14:22] <mattbrejza> 'wrong numbers' isnt that useful
[14:22] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: paste the output
[14:22] <eroomde> with the iscp connected
[14:22] <eroomde> and with it disconnected
[14:22] <eroomde> adamgreig: i think you could do with a good tutorial on how to see which IP addresses are currently looking at google
[14:22] <eroomde> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmv8quf_xM
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[14:23] <Lunar_LanderU> there is one problem at this
[14:24] <Lunar_LanderU> wait
[14:24] <Lunar_LanderU> does dl-fldigi somehow record decodes internally?
[14:24] <Lunar_LanderU> nevermind, be right back
[14:30] <mattbrejza> nope
[14:31] <mattbrejza> if you want to record fldigi output it has a tcp port that it dumps its output too, so you can connect to it with putty and get putty to save everythnig
[14:32] <adamgreig> eroomde: haha
[14:32] <adamgreig> NextGenHacker101
[14:33] <adamgreig> good narrator though
[14:33] <adamgreig> will probably go far
[14:33] <adamgreig> eroomde: just modded my ipython profile so my notebook code cells are 80chars wide, with my preferred mono font, and my text cells are in a nice serif font and a bit less wide too
[14:34] <eroomde> screencap
[14:34] <adamgreig> eroomde: given the amount of egging this up he's doing I think he's probably aware
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[14:35] <Lunar_LanderU> ok
[14:35] <Lunar_LanderU> $$OERNEN-II,1,14:28:55,0.0000000,0.0000000,-17,6,0,0,0,0.0,0,0.00,0,0.0,0.0,0*903B
[14:35] <Lunar_LanderU> $$OERNEN-II,2,14:29:14,0.0000000,0.0000000,-17,6,0,0,0,0.0,0,0.00,0,0.0,0.0,0*A2A1
[14:35] <adamgreig> eroomde: https://agg.io/u/ipynb_font.png
[14:35] <Lunar_LanderU> these two lines came with the ICSP attached
[14:36] <Lunar_LanderU> $$OERNEN-II,-1,14:29:14,0.0000000,0.0000000,-17,6,77,0,0,0.0,0,-1000.00,0,0.0,0.0,0*FD36
[14:36] <Lunar_LanderU> $$OERNEN-II,0,14:29:54,0.0000000,0.0000000,-17,0,87,0,0,0.0,0,-1000.00,0,0.0,0.0,0*37ED
[14:36] <Lunar_LanderU> ERNEN-II,1,14:29:54,0.0000000,0.0000000,-17,6,3,0,0,0.0,0,-1000.00,0,0.0,0.0,0*E118
[14:36] <adamgreig> eroomde: it also wraps output font
[14:36] <Lunar_LanderU> $$OERNEN-II,-1,14:29:54,0.0000000,0.0000000,-17,6,120,0,0,0.0,0,-1000.00,0,0.0,0.0,0*6618
[14:36] <Lunar_LanderU> and these after unplugging
[14:36] <adamgreig> no scrollbars, just hard wrap
[14:36] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: pastebin
[14:36] <eroomde> for the love of god
[14:37] <Lunar_LanderU> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194559/
[14:37] <adamgreig> though the "80 char width" is annoyingly slightly try-and-see: I'm setting it to width:80ch in CSS which should be 80 chars, but in reality this font is apparently a bit narrower or something stupid, so width:72ch gets me exactly 80
[14:38] <mattbrejza> Lunar_LanderU: try changing id to 'static int id;'
[14:38] <mattbrejza> (=0)
[14:39] <mattbrejza> and then try changing the name of 'id' to something much longer
[14:39] <Lunar_LanderU> o
[14:39] <Lunar_LanderU> *ok
[14:40] <mattbrejza> good to see that its still broken tbh, because changing radint=0 shouldnt have fixed it earlier
[14:40] <mattbrejza> means stuff is still making sense
[14:40] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[14:44] <eroomde> this should have ahppened by now...
[14:45] <adamgreig> ( eroomde: not sure if it got lost above, https://agg.io/u/ipynb_font.png )
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[14:49] <eroomde> adamgreig: nice font
[14:49] <eroomde> send me teh diff
[14:50] <eroomde> plz sir
[14:50] <adamgreig> http://pastie.org/8988860
[14:51] <Laurenceb__> nice
[14:51] <adamgreig> that 72ch you'll probably need to adapt for your choice of monospaced font
[14:51] <adamgreig> and both fonts are not standard or free so you might need to acquire or substitute
[14:51] <Laurenceb__> i though it was latex lol
[14:51] <adamgreig> haha
[14:51] <adamgreig> the highest possible praise
[14:52] <Lunar_LanderU> got this now http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194617/
[14:53] <Laurenceb__> string overflow?
[14:53] <Laurenceb__> something is corrupting your memory
[14:53] <mattbrejza> how long was it off for?
[14:53] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[14:53] <Lunar_LanderU> 20 seconds about
[14:53] <mattbrejza> oh dw
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[15:00] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: can you post the source code again?
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[15:06] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[15:08] <Lunar_LanderU> please excuse the german comments, richard did those earlier
[15:08] <Lunar_LanderU> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194668/ main file
[15:08] <Lunar_LanderU> GPS http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194675/
[15:09] <Lunar_LanderU> geiger, basically commented out http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194677/
[15:09] <Lunar_LanderU> RTTY http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194679/
[15:10] <Lunar_LanderU> and sensor functions http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194681/
[15:11] <mattbrejza> this being before the change to static int?
[15:13] <arko> Didnt know ubuntu had a paste bin
[15:14] <Lunar_LanderU> yes, this is the code from before that mattbrejza
[15:22] <eroomde> vimFX and the new ipython notebook were seriously not getting along adamgreig
[15:22] <adamgreig> lol
[15:22] <adamgreig> not surprised
[15:23] <arko> Isnt there a new ipython out today?
[15:23] <arko> Err out of beta?
[15:23] <eroomde> yes
[15:23] <eroomde> tis what we're talking about
[15:23] <eroomde> the new modal editing
[15:24] Action: arko loads backscroll
[15:24] <adamgreig> I've nuked my git checkout of the -dev work and just installed stable 2.0.0 now
[15:24] <adamgreig> ipython. so great.
[15:24] <arko> Indeed
[15:24] <adamgreig> very happy with new 80 column business
[15:24] <adamgreig> wish I'd done this some time ago
[15:24] <eroomde> do you know how to install that font? shouldn't ff manage it (i thought)
[15:24] <adamgreig> which font?
[15:24] <adamgreig> and no
[15:24] <adamgreig> firefox doesn't do fonts
[15:24] <adamgreig> it's just system fonts
[15:25] <eroomde> garamond premier pro
[15:25] <adamgreig> you put the font file in ~/.fonts
[15:25] <eroomde> am happy to keep the monospace as it is
[15:25] <adamgreig> or you use any other nice serif you have handy
[15:25] <Lunar_LanderU> by the way
[15:25] <adamgreig> might need to restart firefox after adding a file to ~/.fonts
[15:25] <eroomde> is the file non-free in an absolute way?
[15:25] <adamgreig> well like
[15:26] <adamgreig> it's a font you pay for, in general
[15:26] <Lunar_LanderU> when Laurenceb__ mentioned the memory issue earlier, I increased the datastring char size to 500, but that did not work either, i.e. after depowering and repowering, the same issue with the numbers occurred
[15:26] <adamgreig> https://www.adobe.com/type/browser/landing/garamond/garamond.html
[15:26] <Lunar_LanderU> I wonder about a thing, if that can be hardware related
[15:26] <Lunar_LanderU> i.e. if the GPS is fried or something
[15:27] <adamgreig> I imagine that like most fonts it's obtainable from someplace on the internet but I'd rather not be the one making it obtainable :P
[15:27] <adamgreig> Lunar_LanderU: have you renamed 'id' to sentence_id yet?
[15:27] <Lunar_LanderU> I renamed it to "identification"
[15:27] <adamgreig> that'd do it
[15:27] <adamgreig> same problem?
[15:28] <Lunar_LanderU> yea I posted a paste of that data earlier
[15:28] <Lunar_LanderU> one moment
[15:28] <Lunar_LanderU> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7194617/
[15:28] <adamgreig> lol
[15:29] <adamgreig> what on earth
[15:29] <mattbrejza> it seemed to work better when you renamed it, although seems weird it boots to something that isnt 0 and continues norally
[15:29] <adamgreig> something is derped somewhere
[15:29] <adamgreig> possibly linker script
[15:29] <adamgreig> how are you compiling and uploading your code?
[15:29] <adamgreig> suspect it's missing the little thing that initialises bss stuff to 0
[15:30] <Lunar_LanderU> using the arduino IDE, it compiles it and directly sends it over to the chip using the avrispmkII
[15:30] <Lunar_LanderU> the IDE has the sanguino package added
[15:30] <Lunar_LanderU> for supporting the atmega644P
[15:30] <Lunar_LanderU> (which never failed in the past
[15:31] <adamgreig> hmm well maybe it's not that. but it looks like it might be. try...
[15:31] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[15:31] <adamgreig> put identification=0; in setup()
[15:32] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, first define it globally and initialize it in the setup function?
[15:33] <adamgreig> yes
[15:33] <Lunar_LanderU> ok let me try that
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[15:40] <Lunar_LanderU> exactly the same behaviour
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[15:44] <Lunar_LanderU> I think I'll wrap it up for today
[15:44] <Lunar_LanderU> thank you all very much :)
[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> there is one thing however, earlier on I took Upu's RTTY test sketch and replaced the hardcoded sentence with just the callsign and the code to increment the id number
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[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> that worked without a hitch
[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> still makes me wonder if the GPS was fried maybe
[15:46] <mattbrejza> what is your logic that links gps failure to a number being a bit weird?
[15:47] <LeoBodnar> CMOS
[15:48] <Lunar_LanderU> I had some problems soldering the GPS, a solder blob even caused a short (saw that when i applied power and the green LED stayed off) and removing the excess solder could have exerted thermal stress on the module
[15:48] <Lunar_LanderU> so I think that if the module was damaged, it could mess up the atmega in some way
[15:48] <Lunar_LanderU> just an idae
[15:48] <Lunar_LanderU> *idea
[15:49] <LeoBodnar> make it into a theory and run controlled experiment to prove/disprove it
[15:50] <LeoBodnar> that's how conscious progress is made
[15:50] <myself> unlikely but try to isolate it to the minimum code required to reproduce the behavior, and try again.
[15:50] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[15:51] <Lunar_LanderU> that is what I wanted to do anyway when I watched Richard working on the code which was basically based on the flight code from last year
[15:51] <Lunar_LanderU> I thought it might be better to start to integrate it once more
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[15:52] <mattbrejza> have you left it for a while to check that id is incrementing by 1 each time, and that now the only issue is the startup value?
[15:53] <mattbrejza> is the startup value the same each time, or does it vary?
[15:53] <eroomde> the guy who does metal plating for us is from essex, and his business partner/wife is from wales
[15:53] <eroomde> thsu we christen them:
[15:53] <eroomde> Galvin and Stacey
[15:53] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: you mean the messed up value?
[15:54] <mattbrejza> yea
[15:54] <Lunar_LanderU> I have seen it to be 13000 something, and also 25000 something
[15:54] <Lunar_LanderU> so not always the same number
[15:54] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: sounds funny :)
[15:55] <LeoBodnar> haha eroomde
[15:58] <Lunar_LanderU> mattbrejza: and these odd values made me think of the possibility of physical damage
[15:59] <Lunar_LanderU> will be best to rebuild the program
[15:59] <mattbrejza> i reckon itll be fixed if you move id within the while(1) loop, but that doesnt explain why initialising it to 0 isnt working
[15:59] <Lunar_LanderU> that is indeed strange
[16:03] <Lunar_LanderU> well
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[16:03] <Lunar_LanderU> going home now
[16:03] <Lunar_LanderU> see you later!
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[16:16] <ibanezmatt13> Does anyone know how a zip file can have like 750mb in it, then when you extract it the file that was in it has 0 bytes at all?
[16:17] <adamgreig> lol, an anti zipbomb
[16:17] <adamgreig> sounds like it just failed to extract, probably. or the zip file has secret extra data. or is corrupt.
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> I've downloaded a Pi image file, the zip was a fair few mb, I extract and the image file has nothing in it, what the heck :)
[16:17] <ibanezmatt13> yea, I tried to do a standard windows extract, which has always worked. Might have to try downloading a unzip program
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[16:18] <ibanezmatt13> In fact, I've just dragged the image file from the zipped file to my desktop and it seems to be working. All fine. You gotta love windows, especially 8
[16:19] <eroomde> hurray up and switch to linux
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[16:20] <ibanezmatt13> I've been brought up a Windows person, so switching would be hard :P
[16:21] <adamgreig> lots of things are hard
[16:21] <adamgreig> you should switch :P
[16:21] <ibanezmatt13> true, and switching is something I probably should do
[16:22] <cm13g09> ibanezmatt13: Switching is less painful than you think
[16:22] <mfa298> you dont have to do a complete switch, you can always go dualboot then you can choose the OS for what you want to do.
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[16:22] <ibanezmatt13> probably, I've used linux a lot before
[16:22] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: i was windows until university
[16:22] <eroomde> then discovered unix
[16:22] <cm13g09> Xubuntu, in my opinion, is a nice place to go for Windows users
[16:22] <eroomde> never looked back
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13> yea I know, I'm sure I will very soon, but perhaps not until I find it really necessary. One more frustrating windows problem and I'm off :)
[16:23] <craag> I use xubuntu - was brought up on XP, so it's just comfy.
[16:23] <eroomde> i remember cos i did x forwarding for matlab running on the engineering department gateway servers
[16:23] <eroomde> and it blew my mind
[16:23] <eroomde> i could do matlab from my room
[16:23] <jonsowman> :)
[16:24] <mattbrejza> video drivers for my device were a bit dodgy last time i tried :(
[16:24] <eroomde> i also discovered LaTeX about the same time
[16:24] <eroomde> can't remember who introduced me
[16:24] <jonsowman> windows irritates me immensely every time i have to use it these days
[16:24] <eroomde> windows is immensely irritating generally
[16:25] <jonsowman> eroomde: did you do TeX as part of the IA course?
[16:25] <eroomde> don't believe so
[16:25] <jonsowman> we had a session on it in first term
[16:25] <eroomde> that might have been new
[16:25] <jonsowman> and were forced to do at least one report using it
[16:25] <jonsowman> after which most people went back to Word
[16:25] <jonsowman> but at least they tried
[16:25] <jonsowman> and some stuck
[16:25] <adamgreig> it's not New
[16:25] <adamgreig> it's that we had a reasonably decent person for the exposition session
[16:26] <adamgreig> most students don't do LaTeX for exposition
[16:26] <adamgreig> sigh
[16:26] <jonsowman> ah
[16:26] <jonsowman> I see
[16:26] <adamgreig> unfortunately
[16:26] <eroomde> i gave a talk on pid control for exposition
[16:26] <jonsowman> i talked about toast
[16:27] <jonsowman> istr adamgreig talked about string?
[16:27] <adamgreig> knots
[16:27] <jonsowman> oh yes
[16:27] <adamgreig> why strings/cables always knot themselves up
[16:27] <adamgreig> if left alone
[16:27] <eroomde> why do they?
[16:28] <adamgreig> maths
[16:28] <jonsowman> lol
[16:28] <adamgreig> disappointingly I can't find the presentation in my dropbox. weird.
[16:29] <adamgreig> the paper, though: http://www.pnas.org/content/104/42/16432.abstract
[16:29] <adamgreig> It is well known that a jostled string tends to become knotted; yet the factors governing the spontaneous formation of various knots are unclear. We performed experiments in which a string was tumbled inside a box and found that complex knots often form within seconds.
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[16:36] <eroomde> exposition was a good opportunity to see people tat you will never, ever see again
[16:36] <eroomde> our's was lead by this guy
[16:36] <eroomde> http://www.csap.cam.ac.uk/network/oliver-hadeler/
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[16:49] <WillTablet> adamgreig: people care enough about string to do presentations and papers?
[16:49] <adamgreig> people care enough about a lot of things
[16:50] <adamgreig> but in this case the specific interest is actually part of knot theory which is in reality an interesting and not insubstantial part of maths
[16:50] <eroomde> WillTablet: a paper about knots in string is not about string
[16:50] <adamgreig> but at the same time - of course there are people who care enough about string to do presentations and papers!
[16:51] <adamgreig> strings are super essential to tons of things
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[16:51] <adamgreig> what makes a better string? a stronger string? a lighter string? where does the strength come from? what materials are good? under what environmental conditions?
[16:51] <adamgreig> what if it gets wet? what if it doesn't?
[16:51] <adamgreig> a lot of this might be understood for common strings these days but only because people cared enough to ask those questions
[16:52] <SpeedEvil> I recommend you use cosmic string.
[16:52] <adamgreig> I prefer tiny and very high dimensional strings :P
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[17:22] <WillTablet> Decided to contact Rayner again
[17:22] <WillTablet> They didn't reply to my last membership enquirty
[17:22] <WillTablet> Might be better off trying to find the local club
[17:22] <WillTablet> Well, group
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[17:40] <Babs_> ping arko
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[17:43] <amell> hmm, ukc are launching again on fri from kent. thought it had to be released in a notam area?
[17:44] <eroomde> it would have to be, legally
[17:45] <arko> Babs_: yo yo
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[17:48] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[17:49] <ibanezmatt13> evening
[17:50] <Babs_> arko, i know sometimes one can get disillusioned with the JPL, but i saw this today and thought that it was disappointing you aren't shooting for the stars anymore https://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/13586038014/
[17:51] <Babs_> eroomde - a bit of precession talk?
[17:52] <eroomde> sure
[17:52] <Babs_> so i've been working on a reaction wheel for stabilotron II
[17:52] <eroomde> nice
[17:53] <Babs_> a) cos i was a bit bored and b) because if i can make the platform ultra stable before then linking in the stabilisation gimbal, it should in theory be nicely stable
[17:53] <Babs_> anyway, i had a look at this thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6p-1J551Y
[17:53] <arko> Babs_: hahaha
[17:54] <eroomde> yup
[17:54] <Babs_> its fun, but it will generally precess because the wheels are off centre right?
[17:54] <arko> i also started a grocery market https://www.google.com/maps/preview?ie=UTF-8&q=Arko+Foods+International&fb=1&gl=us&hq=arko+foods&cid=13079050086127805741&ei=sk48U_HXLcf4yAG6iIDICQ&ved=0CJ8BEPwSMAo
[17:54] <Babs_> i've got it being built for one axis (the horizontal one) currently
[17:55] <Babs_> using two reaction wheels, one clockwise, one anticlockwise sat above one another
[17:55] <eroomde> i dont think that's using precession to do its moving
[17:55] <Babs_> no, its not
[17:55] <ibanezmatt13> that thing's awesome :-)
[17:56] <Babs_> but it will have to correct for its precession i think
[17:56] <eroomde> sure yes
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[17:56] <Babs_> so one of the issues with the gimbal is that while the camera rotates it needs something to rotate against
[17:56] <eroomde> yes i know where this is going
[17:57] <Babs_> so i'm getting the two wheels to move at different speeds according to how off a certain angle an accelerometer measures the chassis containing the reaction wheels is
[17:57] <Babs_> we will see how it goes
[17:58] <Babs_> the only thing i will need to worry about is if it gets in a spin and the speed at which it measures an angle and responds to it puts it into a feedback loop until it rotates itself apart
[17:58] <eroomde> yes, momemtum wheel de-saturation is definitely a thing
[17:58] <eroomde> in the past people have attached to the rigging with a dc motor
[17:59] <Babs_> which i think i will solve by saying that if the delta between two angles is too high, then it just shuts itself down for a while
[17:59] <eroomde> and slowly put some voltage through that motor to put a torque against the rigging line
[17:59] <Babs_> yes, i can see how that would work
[17:59] <Babs_> whoops, gotta go. didn't look at the time. i will post photos once it gets built up
[18:00] Nick change: Guest95998 -> nigelvh
[18:00] <Babs_> anyways, any thoughts you have on things to think about appreciated
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[18:01] <eroomde> sure
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[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> If anybody tries to download a Raspi raspbian distro, I'd be interested to hear if it works. I've tried it on two PC's now and both have said the image file is corrupted
[18:10] <ibanezmatt13> Might see how a torrent differs from the zip
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[18:12] <ibanezmatt13> Awesome, 0.1kb/s, ETA: infinity. I think I'll just give up :P
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[18:19] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: it worked for me a couple of months ago for the same image
[18:20] <mfa298> looks like the raspberry pi site has chnaged drastically
[18:20] <ibanezmatt13> yea, strange. They updated it in Jan but no one seems to have the same issue
[18:20] <ibanezmatt13> yea I suspected that, I'll try another unzipping program
[18:20] <mfa298> you should have something like a 780MB zip file to start with
[18:20] <mfa298> then the image inside is around 3G
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> Yea the zip file is 780
[18:21] <mfa298> looks like it downloaded ok for me although that's on ubuntu+chromium
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> So i'm now unzipping. Looks like it's working at the mo, but then it gets to the end of unzipping and says something, one sec
[18:22] <ibanezmatt13> Wow, it worked :)
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> Not sure what was wrong
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[20:00] <Willdude123> ping Upu
[20:00] <Willdude123> My VPS is surprisingly still one the same node :)
[20:00] <Upu> is this unusual ?
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[20:03] <Willdude123> Upu just needed help setting up that SOCKS proxy thing. For now I've been managing using a chrome extension for proxies but after downloading a certain application which I need it for I have to make the settings global.
[20:03] <Willdude123> I went in to internet options, set the proxy to 8080 but nothing seems to have happened
[20:04] <Upu> zeus is lagging
[20:04] <amell> poor show
[20:05] Nick change: MichaelC3 -> MichaelC
[20:06] <Willdude123> Upu, does that mean I need to do it for every application? I am relatively sure when you showed me there was some global setting, which may have been in internet options
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[20:06] <Upu> Willdude123 just kill norton
[20:06] <Upu> its much easier
[20:06] <Willdude123> Upu, it's dead
[20:06] <Upu> and Norton is an enormous pile of donkey doo doo
[20:07] <Upu> so why do you need the proxy ?
[20:07] <Willdude123> Well, the parental filter at the ISP level, also a torrent client maybe possibly for downloading totally legal OS images
[20:08] <mfa298> just get a real ISP
[20:08] <Willdude123> Wait I think I got it
[20:09] <Willdude123> mfa298, or get real parents maybe :)
[20:12] <Willdude123> I wonder what the status is of an SSH connection connected by the very proxy that it is providing is.
[20:12] <Willdude123> It goes round in circles
[20:14] <Willdude123> Chrome now saying no data received
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[20:15] <Willdude123> Meh
[20:18] <Willdude123> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/reflowster/reflowster-soldering-controller-for-surface-mount
[20:20] <Willdude123> But yeah norton is horrible
[20:24] <amell> sorry, your parents have you on a parental filter?
[20:24] <Willdude123> Yep
[20:27] <craag> I remember when my parents put one of those in
[20:27] <craag> It basically password protected the dialup modem
[20:29] <Willdude123> This filter is actually very bad, for them though, not for me because it doesn't matter
[20:31] <Willdude123> craag, norton was a total pain in the errr, neck. It actually seemed to analyse and filter all traffic. It also thought that Upu's store was gambling, and hackvana's, although in the latter case that's sort of fair
[20:32] <g0pai_ian> Willdude123: Tell your folks that the parental filter will cause you to circumvent it and things might get broken. Ask for a bit of trust and look them in the eyes as you tell them that they are crimping your technical progress.
[20:33] <g0pai_ian> Upu's store Gambling? Most will say win win I would say.
[20:33] <Willdude123> g0pai_ian, this one isn't. I "forgot" to install the old one when I built this one.
[20:34] <g0pai_ian> How very convenient . . . ha ha. You can't use a parental filter against the sysadmin that's stoking the box :-)
[20:35] <Willdude123> I've come across some that block LGBT websites as pr0nz
[20:37] <g0pai_ian> I had to look up both of those terms - sheltered adulthood (thankfully) :-)
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[20:40] <Willdude123> It is odd. I think we will need to start distributing information on how to evade governmental blocks. In the above case, it's preventing children from accessing something that is blocked because it might go against their parents' views. The benefits of children having access to information that potentially goes against their parents' views are huge.
[20:41] Action: Upu points at the topic
[20:42] <g0pai_ian> Agreed, HAB
[20:44] Action: Willdude123 looks at topic
[20:44] <Willdude123> So balloons
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[20:57] <fsphil> so balloons/rockets/other devices that can reach high altitudes, ain't they great
[20:57] <fsphil> what else is there?
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[20:58] <daveake> bacon
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[20:58] <fsphil> some say that's what the B in HAB stands for
[20:58] <mfa298> I thought it was: ham and bacon
[20:59] <ulfr> It's not?
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[21:00] <fsphil> you mean, I've been doing it wrong all these years?
[21:00] <fsphil> I was using balloons!
[21:00] <daveake> tsk
[21:00] <fsphil> whoops
[21:00] <ulfr> Balloons are for kids.
[21:01] <daveake> HAB is an upgrade from HAM
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[21:12] Nick change: amell_ -> amell
[21:13] <Laurenceb> in my inbox: "I can't find c: or "my documents" on any of our new raspberry pi computers, what is wrong?"
[21:14] <daveake> the date
[21:14] <sp2ipt> Laurenceb: get a life :D
[21:15] <eroomde> i sent a zip to an (aging) engineer
[21:15] <eroomde> he clicked on ".." in the unzip window
[21:15] <eroomde> which took him back to mydocuments
[21:15] <eroomde> i got an email saying "You've sent me YOUR WHOLE COMPUTER!!?"
[21:17] <sp2ipt> :)
[21:17] <SpeedEvil> hah
[21:18] <arko> Haha
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:21] <nats`> oO
[21:22] <g0pai_ian> Lunar_Lander: Line 34/35 // Sensor and Datastring Variables/Datatypes. int id = 0; Make that unsigned int id; Within void setup() { id = 0;
[21:23] <g0pai_ian> I guess that you have no reason for the id to be negative.
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[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> true
[21:25] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for the remark
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[21:29] <WillTablet> Laurenceb: oh dear, that a school or something?
[21:29] <g0pai_ian> Yes, if you define it in 34/35 where you do, but don't initialise it there (at the moment at least) then when you assign id = 0 in the Setup, you could always pop in a diagnostic print to find out if id has any random value just before you start.
[21:30] <cuddykid> ping Upu
[21:30] <Upu> hey cuddykid
[21:30] <g0pai_ian> Memory isn't guaranteed to be zeroed before being used. Regular feature of many flavours of standard language implementations, and usually grossly big.
[21:31] <cuddykid> Upu: hiya pm
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> thanks g0pai_ian
[21:35] <Laurenceb> more gems: "how can you correlate two things?! I thought you needed three variables to do a correlation"
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> yeah we were puzzled because of that
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> why it would give strange values at all
[21:36] <Laurenceb> must be wendunceday
[21:40] <g0pai_ian> Correlate - Have a mutual relationship or connection, in which one thing affects or depends on another: that's a minimum of two in my book!
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[21:51] <eroomde> correlate - when a soap opera starts after you were expecting it to
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[22:04] <cm13g09> eroomde: Are you listening to ISIHAC by any chance?
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[22:05] <SpeedEvil> :)
[22:05] Action: SpeedEvil JAMs.
[22:06] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: you know what ISIHAC is right?
[22:06] Action: SpeedEvil sighs.
[22:07] <cm13g09> why SpeedEvil ?
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> ISIHAC is one of a small number of very long running radio 4 / home service comedy programs.
[22:08] <SpeedEvil> JAM is another one
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[22:10] <cm13g09> oh yeah
[22:10] Action: cm13g09 mutters something about not seeing the sticky situation he just caused.....
[22:11] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: Monday nights will NEVER be the same without Lyttleton
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> :/
[22:12] <SpeedEvil> It's pretty retarded that there is no way of purchasing old programs for a nominal fee
[22:14] <mikestir> SpeedEvil: this applies to great swathes of the BBC's output. e.g. the mary whitehouse experience
[22:14] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[22:18] Action: WillTablet points at the topic
[22:19] <SpeedEvil> Many of the members of the above mentioned panel shows are at high altitude
[22:20] <mikestir> radio 4 may be listened to at high altitude
[22:20] <mikestir> it may be possible to use TDA on radio 4's 3 longwave transmitters to determine a position
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[22:26] <WillTablet> Tda?
[22:26] <mikestir> time difference of arrival
[22:27] <mikestir> radio 4's longwave transmission is both a frequency and time standard
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[22:27] <WillTablet> What freq?
[22:27] <mikestir> 198 kHz
[22:27] <mikestir> I have a frequency standard that locks to it
[22:27] <mikestir> but it also has a phase modulated data carrier that includes time
[22:28] <WillTablet> Assuming it would get to the receiver by direct los then I guess it would be
[22:28] <mikestir> yeah. I was joking, but it might not be that far fetched
[22:31] <mikestir> they are pretty much in a straight line though, which isn't very good for positioning
[22:31] <WillTablet> Why long wave for the time signal though?
[22:32] <mikestir> well the time signal on there isn't really widely used - the main use for that data carrier is afaik for switching economy 7 electricity meters between day and night mode
[22:32] <mikestir> but long wave is useful because it goes a long way. e.g. most radio controlled clocks work off the time signal formerly known as the Rugby clock, now broadcast from Cumbria on 60 kHz
[22:33] <WillTablet> Radio Controlled Clocks
[22:33] <WillTablet> ?
[22:35] <amell> I didnt know rugby clock got relocated :)
[22:35] <mikestir> yeah years ago
[22:35] <cm13g09> mikestir: well I never
[22:35] <amell> damn, Ill have to stop telling people its in rugby!
[22:35] <cm13g09> I didn't realise E7 was done off the Rugby clock....
[22:35] <mikestir> it isn't
[22:35] <mikestir> it's done off radio 4
[22:35] <cm13g09> WHAT!?
[22:36] <mikestir> see wikipedia
[22:36] <cm13g09> nice
[22:36] <mikestir> there's hardly any masts left at rugby
[22:36] <cm13g09> but [citation needed]
[22:37] <amell> Some regions use radio teleswitching to control consumers' systems and vary the timing. This uses data superimposed on the 198 kHz BBC Radio 4 long-wave signal.
[22:37] <amell> implies that it might not be universal
[22:37] <amell> just in some regions
[22:37] <mikestir> I once wrote an sdr to decode the data - it's mainly empty
[22:37] <mikestir> time, mainly filler, occasional other stuff
[22:38] <amell> Look at Economy 10
[22:38] <amell> this implies that radio 4 is only used for moving the switch times
[22:39] <cm13g09> and when Droitwich break....
[22:39] <mikestir> yes I just read that - they don't have any of the valves left
[22:39] <cm13g09> quite :P
[22:39] <mikestir> and they're a meter high
[22:40] <mikestir> a mate of mine once got a look around the VHF site a holme moss, in the pennines north of manchester
[22:40] <mikestir> covers the whole of the north of england in one go
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[22:40] <mikestir> they use air spaced feeder made out of copper pipe
[22:41] <amell> radio 4 lw for all of the UK is apparently 500Kw.
[22:41] <WillTablet> " It receives shortwave radio waves" since when was 5km short?
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[22:41] <amell> Whenever the valves fail a dangerous "arc of power" surges through the 700ft Droitwich transmission masts
[22:41] <SIbot> In real units: 700 ft = 213 m
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[22:42] <mikestir> while on the subject of rugby clock - there was a thing on hackaday a couple of weeks ago about spoofing longwave clocks with a microcontroller
[22:43] <mikestir> even that's overkill
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[22:43] <mikestir> you can do it with a loop of wire plugged into the soundcard
[22:44] <amell> https://www.flickr.com/photos/russell_w_b/152501639/in/set-72157603792453070
[22:44] <amell> damn, that looks like a serious piece of kit.
[22:44] <mikestir> doesn't look as serious as I was imagining it
[22:44] <mikestir> I was imagining a big glass envelope with the heater visible
[22:44] <mikestir> #disappointed
[22:45] <cm13g09> lol
[22:45] <cm13g09> I'm off to bed
[22:45] <mikestir> me too
[22:45] <cm13g09> having had enough scares this evening from work
[22:45] <amell> hang on
[22:45] <mikestir> ?
[22:46] <cm13g09> (keep getting mail from monitoring about stuff going wrong)
[22:46] <amell> apparently that valve pic is from 1985. they dont use those any more
[22:46] <amell> lots of journalistic license here&
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[22:46] <mikestir> anyway isn't radio 4 longwave the UK's dead-hand system, and therefore isn't going anywhere?
[22:46] <amell> http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/139/c/CAT27.pdf
[22:47] <amell> datasheet if youre a sad freak
[22:47] <mikestir> I love that the forward current goes up to 290A
[22:47] <amell> lol
[22:49] <mikestir> right gn
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[23:01] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2014/04/02/bunnie-launches-the-novena-open-laptop/
[23:01] <Laurenceb> this looks a little unfinished
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[00:00] --- Thu Apr 3 2014