highaltitude.log.20140330

[00:00] <RocketBoy> just protoboard
[00:00] <amell_> What a bummer. Better luck next time.
[00:01] <amell_> Lmk when you launch and will pop over. Just in hilton
[00:01] <RocketBoy> not a total loss - the main thing I was testing was the programmable NTX2B - worked fine (thanks upu)
[00:02] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/2huKOPh.jpg
[00:02] <RocketBoy> oh right - someone local turned up today
[00:02] <amell_> Yeah that was me
[00:02] <RocketBoy> :-)
[00:02] <amell_> Lol
[00:04] <RocketBoy> just a bit miffed - Id be out there tomorrow if it wernt mothers day
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[00:04] <RocketBoy> Ill give the local rozzers a ring on monday - perhaps they will hand it in
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[02:11] <DL7AD_> 44000ft
[02:11] <SIbot> In real units: 44000 ft = 13 km
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[02:11] <DL7AD_> 40000ft
[02:11] <SIbot> In real units: 40000 ft = 12 km
[02:12] <jarod> :D
[02:13] <jarod> 2500feet
[02:13] <SIbot> In real units: 2500 ft = 762 m
[02:14] <DL7AD_> jarod: the si bot is pratical, is it? :P
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[05:06] <uu4jlm_Valeryi> Hi all, a pleasant spring morning!
[05:10] <g0pai_ian> uu4jlm_Valeryi: Good morning. it is Mothers' day in the UK today, The clocks have moved from UTC to UTC +1 hour ( Z to A ) and the morning sky is beginning to lighten on a wonderful spring morning in prospect.
[05:13] <uu4jlm_Valeryi> :-)
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[06:54] <sp2ipt> uu4jlm_Valeryi: morning :)
[06:55] <sp2ipt> just lost SP3OSJ :) 390 km on 6 m vertical antenna + YU1AW preamplifier
[06:55] <sp2ipt> baloon at 6 km altitude
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[08:31] <Upu_M0UPU> As Neil Tyson says What would aliens say if told that Earthlings shift clocks by an hour to fool themselves into thinking there's more sunlight
[08:31] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> Upu
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[08:32] <Upu> Answer is nothing The aliens already know we are idiots.
[08:33] <ulfr_> hah
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[08:39] <sp2ipt> Upu: of course they know we are idiots - intelligent creatures wouldn't fight for one ball for 90 minutes. Each one of them would take one for itself :D
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[08:44] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: I've uploaded some of the best shots to Flickr: https://t.co/HghpETAR2c More to come #ukhas Awesome images! :D
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[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> If you missed a delivery and you go online to reschedule it, but you then realise you've rescheduled it for a date no one's home, can you reschedule it again before they deliver it? (Royal Mail) Yep, I'm an idiot :P
[08:49] <mikestir> for us it just gets hurled over the back gate anyway
[08:50] <ibanezmatt13> Yea but it's one I have to sign for otherwise they can't deliver it :/
[08:51] <mikestir> you can stick a signed note on the door with an instruction to leave it with a neighbour - I've done that before
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> Oh really? I was wondering something like that but didn't know if it would count as official or not
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> Least I can do is try it :)
[08:52] <mikestir> yeah in my experience if they have your signature on something it's fine
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> I think it's time to write "NORB Board's first flight success" on my HUGE chunk of Hwoyee latex!
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> Is it only me here who keeps the balloon remnants until they disintegrate?
[08:53] <eroomde> yes
[08:53] <eroomde> i get rid of them as quickly as possible, because they stink
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> it's the smell of recovery
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[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> contained in a guitar case that is only ever opened in extreme circumstances :)
[08:55] <jcoxon> honestly bin it - the smell gets really bad
[08:55] <jcoxon> left it in my car once - not nice
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> haha, I might do eventually. I've still got NORB 1's 1200g in here, can't sm
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> ell anything :)
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> Here's Steve comparing his height to a Hwoyee 1200g btw https://flic.kr/p/myHWXz :)
[08:58] <eroomde> croissant and black coffee is the bestest thing
[08:58] <eroomde> every day should be that
[08:59] <number10> are you going out for a meal today eroomde
[08:59] <ulfr_> Hmm.. I got coffee but no croissant. :(
[09:01] <eroomde> number10: infact yes!
[09:01] <eroomde> some place with mum and dad and sister near Beaune
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[09:03] <number10> something to look forward to. there is a french restaraunt maison blue in bury st edmunds I must try
[09:08] <number10> there is a sister restuarant in lavenham - the great house - have you been there jcoxon ?
[09:12] <jcoxon> indeed i hacve
[09:12] <jcoxon> have*
[09:12] <jcoxon> its good, pricey
[09:13] <number10> I thought it may be. I'll leave it for a special occasion
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[10:45] <cuddykid> just read about the theft of yesterdays flight RocketBoy
[10:46] <cuddykid> was there any web address written on the tracker/payload? Definitely worth checking logs if so!
[10:46] <RocketBoy> yep - taken
[10:46] <RocketBoy> nope
[10:46] <cuddykid> :(
[10:46] <RocketBoy> nothing on it
[10:46] <RocketBoy> yeah - i know i should kno better
[10:47] <RocketBoy> but it was a rush
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[10:47] <RocketBoy> i normally always have one on
[10:48] <RocketBoy> i think it probably landed in the road
[10:48] <RocketBoy> and was picked up cos it was in the way
[10:48] <RocketBoy> and they just left the latex
[10:49] <RocketBoy> there was no camera
[10:49] <cuddykid> maybe yeah, might be handed into police perhaps
[10:49] <RocketBoy> i hope so ill give them a call early next week
[10:50] <RocketBoy> the sequence no reset - so im pretty sure they turned it off and on again
[10:50] <cuddykid> interesting, doubt they'd turn it back on if they had the intention of stealing it
[10:51] <cuddykid> the person who stolen mine disabled both trackers right away, ripping power lines out when he could have just unclipped the battery clip
[10:53] <RocketBoy> so you never got it back - did the police follow it up?
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[10:53] <cuddykid> i got it back after police went to address behind IP
[10:54] <cuddykid> web address was on tracker
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[10:54] <cuddykid> they were curious, went to site, i passed IP to police, 3 months later they recovered it
[10:54] <RocketBoy> wow
[10:55] <RocketBoy> busted
[10:55] <RocketBoy> im impressed
[10:55] <cuddykid> i was surprised the police actually bothered pursuing it
[10:56] <RocketBoy> me too
[10:56] <RocketBoy> anyone charged
[10:56] <RocketBoy> ?
[10:57] <cuddykid> they asked me if I wanted to press charges, but there wasn't really anything I'd have got out of it, so the guy was cautioned
[10:57] <cuddykid> he handed over the equipment when the police turned up too, he could have denied it
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[11:18] <RocketBoy> yeah - probably the right call
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[11:26] <gonzo_> cuddykid, you recon the guy was watching snus and went out intentionally, or just found it?
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[11:52] <amell_> Any launches today?
[11:53] <WillTablet> What would the charges have been anyway?
[11:54] <amell_> Twocing?
[11:54] <ibanezmatt13> amell_, https://www.flickr.com/photos/97969402@N03/13508584965/
[11:54] <mikestir> WillTablet: "theft by finding" I believe
[11:54] <amell_> If you leave your car parked and someone takes it. Same thing.
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> Legally, if you find stuff you think may have been abandoned - you're supposed to take it to a police station.
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> Then after X months, you can claim it - if nobody else has
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> This is the case for cash in the street, high altitude balloons, ...
[11:57] <SpeedEvil> Though not children.
[11:57] <gonzo_> a while ago a friend had the tinkers take away (steal) a car chassis as a bit of scrap off his drive
[11:57] <amell_> ibanezmatt13: Good vid :) I see bron got dragged :)
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13> haha yea, poor thing
[11:58] <gonzo_> the police werereluctant to even start the paperwork. So he then re-reported it as a car theift, as the chassis carries the identity of the vehicle
[11:58] <ibanezmatt13> amell_, spot the BRON https://www.flickr.com/photos/97969402@N03/13497344065/in/photostream/ :)
[12:00] <amell_> ibanezmatt13: Blimey. Talk about wide angle. Looks like a celestial object.
[12:00] <ibanezmatt13> haha yeah, I love GoPros :)
[12:01] <amell_> Did you find the wonky aerial connection?
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> well
[12:01] <ibanezmatt13> tbh it looked absolutely fine
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> But the signal was significantly weaker
[12:02] <WillTablet> What's bron, inverse norb?
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> correct
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> Anthony's gonna fly the same one next weekend with a different antenna to see if it makes a difference
[12:02] <bertrik> it's what you get if a balloon takes a selfie
[12:02] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[12:03] <amell_> I did get positions from it at Elsworth but it certainly wasn't as loud as norb. And HL1 was a lot louder than norb.
[12:03] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, strange. Though to be fair, I did make the antenna my self :P
[12:04] <ibanezmatt13> Steve's did look better, but it did the trick
[12:04] <amell_> HL1 was really loud, had to turn gain way down looked a lot narrower on the waterfall
[12:04] <ibanezmatt13> wow, impressive. Any news on recovery yet?
[12:05] <amell_> Just sitting in some scrotes house apparently
[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> oh dear
[12:06] <ibanezmatt13> He should knock on the door and point the Yagi directly at the person's face "I believe you have my tracker, stand aside"
[12:07] <amell_> My guess is that it will get discussed etc and someone tells the finder to call police. Might get lucky.
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> hopefully yeah, no contact details on it?
[12:07] <amell_> Nope
[12:07] <ibanezmatt13> :/
[12:07] <amell_> Rush
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[12:08] <ibanezmatt13> I've found my HAB mojo again. I want to send something up now
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[12:09] <ibanezmatt13> I've got a spare foam ball here, I'm sure that'll come in handy in a few weeks... ;)
[12:12] <LeoBodnar> next time don't forget to help others to retrieve their trackers ibanezmatt13
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[12:14] <ibanezmatt13> Don't you worry! I still feel terrible, I asked my Dad if we could turn around but by that point we'd been travelling an hour and we had to get back to take my sister somewhere apparently. But I wish we could have backtracked and gone to the pub or something. A real shame
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[12:21] <ibanezmatt13> This is why I wish we lived down south, then we wouldn't have to worry about the long trip home. Won't happen again I promise :/
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[12:26] <cuddykid> gonzo_: just found it, wasn't watching snus
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[12:28] <LeoBodnar> so that's two taken payloads in 3 month?
[12:28] <cuddykid> indeed
[12:29] <LeoBodnar> and it's not even high season yet
[12:29] <SpeedEvil> If you do the stats, it could just be random.
[12:30] <SpeedEvil> Remember, some of the ones not found after landing could easily be taken
[12:31] <craag> To be honest I think if I, when I knew nothing about HAB, found a payload like Steve's was, with no contact info on it and no indication of how long (or short) it had been there, I'd have taken it.
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> yes
[12:31] <SpeedEvil> Casting this as 'theft' is a bit strong.
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> Unless there are very, very clear notices on the package
[12:32] <craag> I'd probably have spent the weekend dissecting it, then when I googled the monetary value of the GPS and TX in it, handed it in on Monday.
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> I mean - the met office do not expect to get their sondes back
[12:32] <SpeedEvil> I wonder what the value of a met office sonde is to the met office.
[12:32] Action: SpeedEvil ponders a FOIA request.
[12:33] <craag> They're a just a few quid or something in bulk I'd guess?
[12:33] <craag> the MAX-7 and NTX2 are about 40 quid together, that's a little high to just hold on to imo.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> People have launched these things intentionally into the sea.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Leo has to be up to the worth of a small car now.
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> Clear labeling indicating that it's not abandoned and that you want it back removes all doubt.
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[13:05] <amell_> Has anyone actually found a met office sonde with a yagi?
[13:05] <amell_> Wondering what's inside :)
[13:05] <craag> Yes lots of people chase them for fun
[13:07] <craag> It's a bunch of sensors, a 9600? baud transmitter, and a GPS raw data arrangement (gps fix is calcuated on the ground)
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[13:13] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[13:16] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> hello
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[13:27] <DL7AD> hi Geoff-G8DHE-M & Lunar_Lander
[13:28] <DL7AD> Lunar_Lander: messed up by time change? :D
[13:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah a bit only xD
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[13:32] <fsphil> all my clocks are automatic. my brain however, failed
[13:32] <fsphil> got up at 10am wondering why I was so tired
[13:37] <Lunar_Lander> DL7AD, you might laugh
[13:37] <Lunar_Lander> timing messed up my balloon board
[13:38] <DL7AD> DL7AD: i? no i have currently no pcb available.
[13:38] <DL7AD> Lunar_Lander: : i? no i have currently no pcb available.
[13:38] <Lunar_Lander> no mine
[13:38] <Lunar_Lander> I installed a 7.3728 MHz xtal without thinking that the arduino software deep inside would have to be changed to that
[13:39] <Lunar_Lander> thus the UART and RTTY are messed up
[13:40] <daveake> so change the software
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> or use Eclipse or a 8 MHz xtal
[13:41] <Lunar_Lander> will have a look at it
[13:41] <craag> RTTY you can just change the delay or interrupt trigger.
[13:42] <adamgreig> yea just swap the crystal for an 8MHz one...
[13:42] <craag> ^^ easiest :)
[13:42] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[13:42] <craag> Or you could do software serial and change the delays..
[13:42] <eroomde> i'm going to mumble something to no-one in particular about the arduino preventing people from understanding microcontrollers properly
[13:42] Action: craag ducks...
[13:42] <Upu> haha
[13:43] <eroomde> i'll make a £50 bet
[13:43] Action: Geoff-G8DHE-M Lets loose both barrales at the Ducks ... and misses
[13:43] <Lunar_Lander> eroomde, that is the point, which is why I opt to use the avr-gcc toolchain or something like that
[13:43] <eroomde> we get two identical twins interested in hab
[13:43] <eroomde> no micro experience
[13:43] <eroomde> we start one wuth the arduino, and one with assembler
[13:44] <eroomde> and compare them as engineers one year later
[13:44] <Lunar_Lander> number 2 gonna be better
[13:44] <Upu> no number two will still be sat there scratching his or her head after a year but eventually over time will become better
[13:44] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[13:44] <eroomde> a couple of weeks i think
[13:45] <Lunar_Lander> well my professor said that instead of doing assembler, doing just C is fine
[13:45] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think about that?
[13:45] <eroomde> it doesnt take more than 2 weeks of tuition to grok assembler
[13:45] <eroomde> that's the point - the model is so simple, it hides nothing
[13:45] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[13:45] <eroomde> it's like vim vs notepad. it's a 2-week problem, but no-contest after that
[13:46] <eroomde> C can make some things *slightly* more compkicated in terms of mapping the model of the micro to your code
[13:46] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[13:46] <eroomde> eg pointers are in principle trivial but in C some people seem to suffer enormously
[13:47] <eroomde> and tewlling gcc not to f*ck with certain registers is a bit ad-hoc
[13:47] <Lunar_Lander> I heard that memory allocation is a big problem in C
[13:47] <eroomde> with volatiles and so on
[13:47] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[13:47] <eroomde> but i think the assembler programmer would have discovered C fairly quickly and learnt it quickly
[13:48] <Lunar_Lander> I think so too
[13:48] <eroomde> because they have the mental model of how the micro actually works
[13:48] <eroomde> whereas arduino people are still scratching their heads after a year
[13:48] <Lunar_Lander> true
[13:48] <eroomde> when they get an error they don't understand to do with timers or something
[13:49] <Lunar_Lander> when I recall my errors, like spending a whole day trying to get the arduino talk to the ublox, and the one error was missing out 0x00, 0x00, that was not good also
[13:49] <Lunar_Lander> yes
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[13:50] <eroomde> C also has some annouyances that trap new players because they're not obvious, like arrays and pojnters being seemingly the same but not, and initialising strings using one more byte of memory than you might think from what you know of arrays, and so on
[13:50] <LeoBodnar> if twins are identical than there is no way to distinguish #1 and #2
[13:51] <LeoBodnar> *by definition QED
[13:51] <eroomde> tattoo
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> but government should ban arduino nevertheless
[13:52] <eroomde> yes
[13:52] <eroomde> for the good of education
[13:52] <Upu> lol
[13:52] <LeoBodnar> just ban it and get over it
[13:53] <eroomde> go back to learning microcontrollers the way everyone was just fine for decades before
[13:53] <LeoBodnar> some US state should ban using arduino when not deemed insane
[13:53] <Lunar_Lander> can we distinguish them if one of the twins goes into a high-speed spaceship?
[13:54] <eroomde> kansas
[13:54] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: that's more expensive than just getting a tattoo
[13:54] <Lunar_Lander> true
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[14:09] <marts> hi everyone, has anyone here ever made a custom camera pcb for ballooning? I have been searching around a bit but haven't been able to find any resources.
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[14:17] <Lunar_Lander> that's actually another dream of mine
[14:17] <Lunar_Lander> making something like the AVR Cam
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> @marts
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> I think no one did that so far
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> in this channel
[14:18] <Lunar_Lander> I might be mistaken though
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[14:20] <mikestir> I've got some CMOS camera modules with built in JPEG encoder which I was going to do something with. No time though
[14:20] <mikestir> they'd need a microcontroller with DMA support, or a small FPGA
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[14:21] <adamgreig> 'need'
[14:21] <mikestir> ?
[14:22] <adamgreig> certainly makes life easier :P
[14:23] <Lunar_Lander> I recall someone making five parallel accounts on the arduino forums asking how to integrate a CCTV camera with an arduino
[14:23] <Lunar_Lander> not being satisfied by the explaination that this is impossible
[14:23] <marts> hmm ok, I would like to start with a bare camera ic and not use a prebuild camera module, as the payload I am designing is rather small
[14:23] <marts> but that makes finding some usefull infomation even harder ;)
[14:23] <marts> might be out of my reach
[14:24] <adamgreig> it just makes everything else harder
[14:24] <adamgreig> you'll need at least reasonably serious memory or processing bandwidth to use a bare camera ic yourself
[14:24] <LeoBodnar> how small is small?
[14:24] <adamgreig> would be surprised if you did anything useful with it on an avr
[14:24] <adamgreig> (surprised and delighted, I'm sure such things are possible)
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[14:24] <marts> 28x54mm
[14:24] <adamgreig> (but it'l be a whole world of bother)
[14:25] <adamgreig> that's not very small ;)
[14:25] <adamgreig> what's the current standard for 'small'? are we only sub-femto qualifiers now, in this ridiculous race to the bottom?
[14:25] <marts> well gps, imu and telemetry on two stacked boards... at least thats small to me
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> "prebuilt camera modules" are probably 20x20mm
[14:27] <marts> strange how one can get acceleromters and the like with easy I2C interfaces, but there seems to be no cameras with that ease of integration available
[14:27] <LeoBodnar> so if you lose imu...
[14:27] <marts> *accelerometers
[14:28] <LeoBodnar> because video bandwidth is five order of magnitude higher than acceleration data
[14:28] <LeoBodnar> +s
[14:29] <LeoBodnar> it's like comparing i8080 with Xenon
[14:29] <marts> well single images would already be fine to me
[14:29] <mikestir> marts: these modules are just bare ICs - MT9D111
[14:29] <LeoBodnar> you said "video"
[14:29] <mikestir> it has the image pipeline and jpeg encoder on the same die
[14:29] <mikestir> (and sensor)
[14:29] <mikestir> it's just a module in that it includes the lens mount
[14:30] <mikestir> it's feasible that you could use a low-end ARM microcontroller with DMA to stream the jpeg data into an external SPI SRAM and then get it in slow time to send ssdv
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> most if not all simple imaging chips are targeted towards video
[14:31] <marts> @mikestir that looks good, thanks
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> i.e. on-chip image storage doubles the imaging area
[14:31] <marts> have to see if I can source this without the breakout board
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[14:33] <mikestir> most other cmos sensors will be raw bayer data over BT.656 or MIPI CSI, requiring a SoC with a dedicated camera interface as well as enough RAM for a framestore
[14:34] <Laurenceb> interfacing with stm32 is pretty easy
[14:34] <mikestir> and enough grunt to run the image pipeline
[14:34] <Laurenceb> the higher end stm32
[14:34] <mikestir> yeah the F407 has a camera interface but not enough ram
[14:34] <mikestir> but again, external SPI SRAM might work
[14:34] <Laurenceb> depends what the resolution is
[14:35] <adamgreig> can you use the fsmc and the camera interface at the same time on the 407?
[14:35] <adamgreig> because then you could just use proper sram
[14:35] <adamgreig> or a dram chip or something
[14:36] <Laurenceb> adamgreig: one some of them you can
[14:36] <Laurenceb> but it can cause bus contention issues
[14:36] <mikestir> not sure. probably on the big BGA one, otherwise there wouldn't be much point in having the camera interface
[14:36] <Laurenceb> im not sure if the F429/439 solves this
[14:37] <Laurenceb> need to look at datasheet
[14:37] <Laurenceb> if the framebuffer is in the external sram there will be issues
[14:39] <Laurenceb> i forget now...
[14:39] <Laurenceb> i think someone was trying to do video encoding or something mental, and had issues with bus contention
[14:39] <Laurenceb> FSMC is rather slow :-/
[14:40] <eroomde> how slow?
[14:41] <Laurenceb> like F_cpu/2 or something
[14:42] <Laurenceb> ah F427/9 has dedicated AHB for camera/usb
[14:42] <Laurenceb> not bad
[14:42] <Laurenceb> so you could send it straight into FSMC
[14:42] <eroomde> f_cpu/2 is still gonna be fast enough for me
[14:43] <eroomde> i forget how wide it is - 16 bit data words?
[14:43] <Lunar_Lander> sparkfun once made a atmega328 board which should be used with the LinkSprite TTL camera, and the idea was that the atmega could be used to trigger the camera and then save the image to the microSD on the board
[14:43] <Lunar_Lander> that only works because the camera has the memory it needs inside I think
[14:44] <Laurenceb> eroomde: 14 for the camera
[14:44] <eroomde> ok
[14:44] <eroomde> well that's still of order 1GBit/s
[14:44] <Laurenceb> "8- to 14-bit parallel camera interface up to
[14:44] <Laurenceb> 54 Mbytes/s"
[14:44] <eroomde> in theory
[14:44] <eroomde> oh
[14:45] <eroomde> that must be quite a lot less than cpu/2 then
[14:45] <Laurenceb> the camera interface is even slower
[14:45] <eroomde> ah right
[14:45] <Laurenceb> but still
[14:45] <Laurenceb> its ~70% of Rpi
[14:45] <eroomde> i vaguely recall seeing that dma from external mem to sdio peripheral was harder than i thought it should be
[14:45] <eroomde> maybe impossible
[14:45] <eroomde> i can't remember
[14:45] <Laurenceb> erm yeah
[14:45] <Laurenceb> me too
[14:45] <Laurenceb> i forget...
[14:46] <eroomde> it seemed like an obvious thing to want to do
[14:46] <Laurenceb> there were some F407 series issues that i think might have been solved
[14:46] <Laurenceb> but i havent tried any FSMC stuff
[14:46] <eroomde> but i recall thinking 'this doesn't seem as easy as it should be as an obvious thing you'd want to do'
[14:46] <eroomde> i shall look it all up later
[14:46] <marts> ok, you guys have totally lost me, so its probably beyond my current electronics reach :)
[14:47] <eroomde> oh don't worry too much about that
[14:47] <eroomde> this channel is great for going off into flights of fancy
[14:47] <eroomde> talk to fsphil for getting jpegs through a simple atmega to ssdv
[14:47] <eroomde> he's the original gangsta in such matters
[14:47] <mikestir> isn't the camera he used obsolete though?
[14:48] <LeoBodnar> data does not have to pass through mcu when going into SRAM
[14:48] <LeoBodnar> a bit of glue logic and hw counter all that is needed
[14:48] <marts> ok I will try to remember that name
[14:48] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: yeah thats one way to do it
[14:49] <mikestir> you do still need to do the bayer->yuv->jpeg conversion though
[14:49] <mikestir> which could take a while on an avr
[14:49] <marts> I orderd a sdr dongle from cosy cave by the way (after talking to you guys last week), waiting for it to arrive
[14:49] <LeoBodnar> but you have all the time in the world for that
[14:49] <eroomde> i think i had a go at doing jpeg encoding on a micro before
[14:49] <eroomde> i certainly wrote a jpeg encoder for matlab
[14:50] <LeoBodnar> oh, are we still on avrs?
[14:50] <eroomde> i think so
[14:50] <LeoBodnar> well still not impossible
[14:50] <eroomde> put an x86 emulator on the avr
[14:50] <eroomde> and rin libjpeg
[14:50] <eroomde> simplicity itself
[14:50] <mikestir> there's plenty of fairly accessible cortex M4 devices now
[14:51] <mikestir> libjpeg cross compiles ok I think
[14:51] <Laurenceb> yeah ive seen it done
[14:51] <mikestir> a lot of these libs run fine on embedded arm. I have libmad running on STM32 ok, for example
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[14:55] <Laurenceb> sounds like a mad idea
[14:57] <adamgreig> mikestir: was it you talking about those new nucleo stm32f4 boards?
[15:00] <Laurenceb> someone needs to do a nucleo jtag case
[15:00] <Upu> ibanezmatt13 here ?
[15:00] <ibanezmatt13> yup
[15:00] <Laurenceb> then it would be the perfect low cost debugger
[15:00] <Upu> can you take screen shots and stuff from spacenear.us before I remove the tracks
[15:00] <ibanezmatt13> sure, one sec
[15:00] <Upu> no rush
[15:01] <ibanezmatt13> done, My uncle took about 90 throughout the flight yesterday :)
[15:02] <Upu> cool thx
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> Postage tomorrow afternoon Upu, I'd have thought it'd be with you before Friday
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> Do you need the ball?
[15:02] <GadgetDroid> Afternoon all
[15:02] <Upu> no but needs to be here for Wed
[15:02] <Upu> as I'm not at work after that
[15:02] <Upu> first class it should be fine
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> ah right, what do you think the best thing to do it?
[15:02] <ibanezmatt13> ok
[15:03] <Upu> just bin the antenna
[15:03] <Upu> obviously doesn't work
[15:04] <ibanezmatt13> I think I'll keep hold of it, but not for flying :)
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[15:10] <daveake> Upu /ibanezmatt13 Or send it here
[15:10] <Upu> ah yeah actually ibanezmatt13 send it direct to daveake
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> that makes sense yeah
[15:11] <Upu> we are going to put his code on it
[15:11] <Upu> I'll mail you his address
[15:11] <ibanezmatt13> right, no problem, cheers
[15:12] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, what else would you do with an aerial than flying?
[15:12] <Willdude123> Well, I can think of some inventive uses for whip aerials
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> occasionally, attempt to lean out of my window to see what happens if there's something going on. But usually it just sits here
[15:12] <ibanezmatt13> I know nothing about radio
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> Though, with each flight I get more an more excited to hear a tracker so high up. So eventually, it's something I'll look more into
[15:14] <Upu> you have mail
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> got it
[15:14] <ibanezmatt13> thanks
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> I'll send it 1st class tomorrow afternoon
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> mikestir, I might go up the famous hill near my house this weekend to see the difference in tracking ability of HABs down south
[15:19] <craag> Possible GDP launch attempt #2 tomorrow btw
[15:19] <Upu> GDP ?
[15:20] <craag> It's a masters porject at southampton uni, SMS-triggered automatic hab launcher.
[15:20] <craag> Box with 100g balloon, helium canister and cut-away hotwire.
[15:21] <adamgreig> how many masters students does it take to.. etc
[15:21] <adamgreig> does the G stand for group?
[15:21] <craag> Yeah, group design project
[15:21] <craag> Attempt #1 failed in so many ways
[15:21] <adamgreig> does it measure lift or gas or just empty the canister?
[15:21] <craag> jsut empty the canister
[15:21] <adamgreig> how does it seal the balloon? or just a valve?
[15:21] <craag> 1-way valve
[15:22] <craag> Last time they didn't have enough helium....
[15:22] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:23] <craag> Wish I had video of them chasing this dragging-balloon along, and then attempting to throw it up in the air!
[15:23] <craag> (But I was laughing too hard)
[15:25] <craag> Anyway I will probably be at launch, so will post info on here.
[15:25] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[15:27] <craag> Arduino GSM receives text, servo opens the box lid and opens the valve, 5 mintues later the cutaway relay is triggered. As the balloon inflates it lifts the payload away from a magnet and closes a switch, switing the payload on.
[15:27] <ibanezmatt13> craag, what type of engineering is this?
[15:27] <Lunar_Lander> so a bit like the Vaisala Container system
[15:27] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Aerospace
[15:28] <ibanezmatt13> awesome! Thanks :)
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[15:28] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Can be described as fancy mechanical really.
[15:28] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, the course appeals to me a lot
[15:28] <ibanezmatt13> gotta run, back in a bit
[15:28] <craag> They have no electronics/programming knowledge, hence my unofficial involvement.
[15:29] <craag> Lunar_Lander: Haven't seen that, but yeah it's quite simple and should be reliable (LOL)
[15:29] <craag> servo couldn't open the lid because they'd put a heavy seal on it since testing
[15:29] <craag> servo couldn't open the gas valve in the cold
[15:30] <craag> hotwire timer didn't fire
[15:30] <craag> magnet wasn't strong enough to switch payload off
[15:30] <eroomde> this all sunds like a disaster
[15:30] <eroomde> sounds*
[15:30] <craag> and not enough helium in the tank
[15:30] <DL7AD> Upu: ping
[15:31] <craag> eroomde: It was... seems to be a habit for our aerospace dept...
[15:31] <DL7AD> Upu: could you set up the aprs feed for sp3osj?
[15:31] <Lunar_Lander> craag, Darkside filmed one of these once
[15:31] <craag> (remember BLAST?)
[15:31] <craag> oh and SHARP
[15:31] <Lunar_Lander> it is a container in which RS-92's and balloons are stored, inflation is automatic and then the lid opens and the balloon launches
[15:31] <Lunar_Lander> *RS-92s
[15:32] <adamgreig> craag: SLARP? :P
[15:32] <craag> adamgreig: That's the one :D
[15:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:32] <adamgreig> still love the video with the Countdown theme on it
[15:32] <eroomde> certainly remember sharp
[15:32] <adamgreig> amazing
[15:32] <eroomde> yes that video is a classic
[15:32] <eroomde> sums up the whole endevour
[15:33] <Lunar_Lander> didn't they did a tethered cutdown test, trying to catch the payload in some sort of bed sheet?
[15:33] <craag> At least their tracker works this time (that was my involvement), although they refuse to use decent batteries so will probably run out beofre landing.
[15:33] <craag> Lunar_Lander: WIth the countdown music ;)
[15:34] <Upu> yes DL7AD
[15:34] <DL7AD> thx anthony ;)
[15:34] <Upu> whats the APRS ?
[15:34] <Upu> sp3osj-11 ?
[15:34] <DL7AD> no 12
[15:34] <craag> It sounds a cool idea, predeploying on a roof of a uni building and doing a launch when predictions look good from your armchair.
[15:35] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[15:35] <craag> But currently it needs 6 engineers to stand over it and poke at it for any chance of it working...
[15:35] <craag> And they might get a bit bored..
[15:36] <Upu> well its on
[15:37] <WillTablet> I had a really cool idea the other day
[15:37] <WillTablet> Flash mob drones
[15:37] <WillTablet> So you get like 100 in a square
[15:37] <WillTablet> Then they like do a synchronised dance
[15:37] <Lunar_Lander> bring back robot wars on BBC!
[15:40] <WillTablet> If I am to attend the conference this year, I'll have to go with an adult right?
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[15:44] <mikestir> adamgreig: sorry been weeding - no it was probably aadamson
[15:45] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: I think you'll find it works quite well
[15:45] <aadamson> what trouble am I getting in now? :
[15:45] <aadamson> :)
[15:46] <mikestir> was it you that was talking about f4 nucleo boards?
[15:46] <aadamson> I think I've menioned them yes
[15:47] <adamgreig> any tips? mine arrived a day or two back and thinking of getting some code on them this evening to check it all out
[15:47] <adamgreig> have programmed f4s before, but using jtag via a black magic probe only
[15:47] <aadamson> well (it's a deep subject :) )...
[15:47] <aadamson> the nucleos have st-link built into them
[15:47] <adamgreig> just looking for tips on getting a compiled binary onto the chip
[15:47] <adamgreig> yea
[15:47] <aadamson> that front boards that looks like it can snap off is a full stlink programmer
[15:48] <aadamson> just use the stlink programmer
[15:48] <adamgreig> on linux*
[15:48] <mikestir> st-flash
[15:48] <adamgreig> cool
[15:48] <aadamson> look at the docks for the nucleo, it will tell you how.
[15:48] <aadamson> no not st-flash
[15:48] <aadamson> the stlink tools
[15:48] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:48] <aadamson> hang on I'll find the link
[15:48] <adamgreig> stlink stuff works ok from linux then?
[15:48] <Laurenceb> texane on github
[15:48] <adamgreig> that's easy if so
[15:49] <aadamson> or texane support the stlink protocol and it works too
[15:49] <aadamson> on linux thats what I'd do - texane
[15:49] <aadamson> Laurenceb, you got a link handy
[15:49] <Laurenceb> i use it all the time
[15:49] <adamgreig> I can find texane, cheers
[15:49] <adamgreig> anything else to be aware of? any easy ways to do debugging?
[15:49] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/texane/stlink
[15:49] <aadamson> or openocd support it too (the latest dev build)
[15:49] <aadamson> swd jtag is best way to debug
[15:49] <aadamson> I think texane is a gdb too
[15:50] <aadamson> I do everything on windows
[15:50] <adamgreig> ok. the header on the breakoff board is for the main chip then?
[15:50] <adamgreig> shame it's a 1x6 or whatever instead of the 2x5 mini connector thing
[15:50] <aadamson> that 6 pin one yes
[15:50] <adamgreig> have to make up a cable or some deal
[15:50] <aadamson> that's the *new* SWD header its standard on all the discovery and nucleo boards
[15:50] <mikestir> I've been using openocd for debug - latest git works fine
[15:51] <aadamson> http://www.micromouseonline.com/2011/11/05/stlink-swd-for-stm32/#axzz2RZCslFET
[15:51] <mikestir> also supports cmsis dap, which you can use with the debugger built in to the kinetis freedom boards
[15:51] <aadamson> translation for the 6 pin pinout
[15:51] <Laurenceb> im not sure what the situation is with SWO
[15:51] <Laurenceb> aiui texane can spit it out but it needs a parser
[15:51] <aadamson> yeah openocd now support swo, etc, it its pretty much all I use
[15:52] <Laurenceb> ah ok
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[15:52] <adamgreig> oh is it, great
[15:52] <aadamson> I just picked up a j-link edu and am going to try that
[15:52] <adamgreig> guess I had better make up a cable then
[15:52] <aadamson> it's got a full swo interface and is much faster than stlink's are
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[15:52] <aadamson> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/cortex-conn.png
[15:53] <aadamson> I did that design, and you can actually order those (minus the 6 pin) from olmex
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> Woo! My high-altitude antics today?
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> I put one half of the roof of my greenhouse on.
[15:53] <aadamson> https://github.com/akadamson/CortexM-20-Pin-Adapter
[15:53] <aadamson> in diptrace
[15:53] <Laurenceb> i just use 0.1" headers and ribbon cable ;P
[15:54] <aadamson> yeah mee too, but on the real stlink, there isn't a 6 pin so I did an adapter
[15:54] <aadamson> and most jtag interfaces only have the .1 spaced 2x10 20 pin on them
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[15:55] <aadamson> only one half SpeedEvil ?
[15:55] <aadamson> what happens to the other half? ran out of day?
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> Energy.
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> I decided I was fed-up with replacing glass.
[15:56] <mikestir> my excuse for stopping gardening was that I ran out of beer
[15:56] <SpeedEvil> I put one entire sheet of 10mm twinwall polycarbonate on it, with no breaks or holes in the upper surface fized entirely with nuts from the bottom
[15:57] <aadamson> ok, I totally get that!!! More beer or no more work :)... oh, and the energy issue too... (sheesh and I don't even drink beer)...
[15:58] <aadamson> my good news on the last night... I got my controller up and functional, now basically in check out, but blinky works great... oh... and had a duh moment
[15:58] <aadamson> LED's with a forward voltage of 2.1v don't work very well on a 1.8/2.0 board :)...
[15:58] <aadamson> actually they did, but were very dim (with 330 ohm current limiting resistors)
[15:58] <eroomde> been there too
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> http://www.cabp.co.uk/Roofing-Materials/Polycarbonate-Multiwall/10mm-Polycarbonate-Multiwall/10mm-Multiwall-Polycarbonate-CLEAR_10MMMULTICLEAR.htm - it's surprisingly stiff
[15:58] <eroomde> one of those 'why isn't this working.... d'oh! obvious' moments
[15:58] <aadamson> I think I'll just pull the resistors or just put in little small ones
[15:59] <aadamson> eroomde, mine wasn't quite that bad, but yeah it was why are these so dang dim
[15:59] <eroomde> switched to a different colour with a smaller Vf and carried on
[15:59] <aadamson> actually there are 1.7v red and green LED's, but not very bright in cancela
[16:00] <eroomde> this was a blue
[16:00] <eroomde> with a largish vf
[16:02] <aadamson> yeah blues are the worst. I mad a little test and just jumper over my current limiters and they lit up rather nicely at 2.0v VDD - they are really only there for debug anyway so I'm not too worried.
[16:03] <aadamson> but it was nice to see them blink once I loaded code over a new jtag interface.... yeah, board was up and frequency looked right
[16:03] <eroomde> the best kinda debug
[16:03] <aadamson> I used some really little 8Y crystals that I wasn't completely sure of the
[16:03] <eroomde> a blinking led
[16:03] <aadamson> external capacitance needs for... but the board came right up...
[16:03] <aadamson> now to get my other debug tool on it... a VCP over USB :)
[16:03] <aadamson> that's next
[16:04] <mikestir> do you not have a datasheet for the crystals?
[16:04] <aadamson> I did, but there isn't a whole lot of science around picking the capacitors, there is a makeshift formula that usually works, but most will tell you it's not perfect
[16:05] <mikestir> ?
[16:05] <eroomde> were the external capacitance needs 12pF per leg?
[16:05] <mikestir> err there is
[16:05] <Laurenceb> i have a set of RTC boards that are off by 58ppm due to capacitance screwups
[16:06] <aadamson> http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2012/01/24/choosing-the-right-crystal-and-caps-for-your-design/
[16:06] <aadamson> that's documented in lots of place, but as noted, it's really a best guess
[16:06] <mikestir> it isn't
[16:06] <mikestir> that's how you do it
[16:06] <mikestir> the problem can be in knowing the C of the oscillator, and other stray
[16:07] <aadamson> yeah, it's the stray that isn't the perfect part... sorry , should have been more clear
[16:07] <mikestir> but the datasheet for the mcu will often tell you the oscillator parts, and the stray is often negligible, or just roung the answer up to the nearest standard value
[16:07] <eroomde> indeed, the hard bit generally comes from oscillator C and layout parasitics
[16:07] <mikestir> round*
[16:07] <aadamson> http://www.txccrystal.com/images/pdf/8y.pdf - is what I used the 16mhz version
[16:08] <aadamson> at 8pf on the crystal
[16:08] <aadamson> yeah, and then 10pf caps
[16:09] <mikestir> that's probably a bit high
[16:09] <aadamson> I think I did use the formula and the basic assumptions around the stray
[16:09] <LeoBodnar> need to be about 12pF
[16:09] <LeoBodnar> most people don't realise xtal caps are actually wired in series
[16:10] <LeoBodnar> so the result is x2 lower
[16:10] <LeoBodnar> + 2-3pF stray capacitance
[16:11] <mikestir> +oscillator capacitance
[16:11] <aadamson> I'll change that in the final design to 12pf... thats what I normally use, but decided to try the above... Wish I could have found it in 8mhz, but DK only had 16's
[16:11] <mikestir> which according to the stm32f105 datasheet is 10pF in total
[16:11] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: wait wut
[16:11] <Laurenceb> so if a xtal says 10pF, i need 2 x 20pF ?
[16:11] <LeoBodnar> yep
[16:11] <Laurenceb> dohhhhh
[16:12] <mikestir> no. minus the stray first
[16:12] <LeoBodnar> less parasitic capacitance
[16:12] <Laurenceb> thats why my RTC is off
[16:12] <mikestir> which is not negligible
[16:12] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:12] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[16:12] <Laurenceb> DOH
[16:12] <Laurenceb> hot air time then
[16:12] <eroomde> a win for science
[16:13] <LeoBodnar> it depends on the xtal package
[16:13] <aadamson> hehe... there ya go!
[16:14] <Laurenceb> i knew something must be wrong
[16:14] <aadamson> Laurenceb, this on an stm? so you hung the 31.x khz clock on it?
[16:15] <aadamson> or 32.x
[16:15] <aadamson> I never remember
[16:15] <Laurenceb> 32.x yeah
[16:15] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, might you be able to recover b-42?
[16:16] <Laurenceb> http://uk.farnell.com/epson/fc-12m-32-768khz-20ppm-9pf/crystal-32-768khz-fc-12m-12pf/dp/1907467
[16:16] <adamgreig> aadamson: so you're saying I shouldn't use the mbed interface of dragging and dropping a .bin file? ;)
[16:16] <aadamson> I dunno, never messed with it, i've done very little with my nucleo
[16:16] <aadamson> just got it and then my new boards showed up.
[16:16] <aadamson> but if that is available, go for it, I want to know how it works?
[16:17] <aadamson> that would be cool
[16:17] <Laurenceb> aadamson: FC-12M with 12pF caps :P
[16:17] <aadamson> 12pf being the *new* corrected value?
[16:17] <aadamson> I need to play with that sometime, I've done nothing around RTC except to prove that I can make it work
[16:17] <Laurenceb> thats what i fitted, 2 x 12pF
[16:18] <adamgreig> aadamson: the board appears as USB mass storage when plugged in
[16:18] <adamgreig> if you drag a .bin to that storage and reset, it programs with it
[16:18] <Laurenceb> explaining why its 58ppm off
[16:18] <aadamson> adamgreig, yeah I knew theat
[16:18] <aadamson> Laurenceb, so what do the 12's need to be?
[16:18] <adamgreig> seems kinda inelegant
[16:18] <adamgreig> also if you open the mbed.htm file it redirects you to mbed.org, logs you in, registers that platform on your account
[16:18] <Laurenceb> aadamson: maybe 24 or so ?
[16:18] <aadamson> ah
[16:18] <adamgreig> and then says "please update the firmware"
[16:18] <adamgreig> update firmware eh
[16:18] <aadamson> adamgreig, yes
[16:18] <aadamson> do that
[16:18] <aadamson> it's the stlink firmware
[16:19] <adamgreig> it wants me to be using windows by the looks of it
[16:19] <adamgreig> to update the firmware
[16:19] <aadamson> that part I don't know
[16:19] <mikestir> Laurenceb: from the stm32 datasheet (again): "where
[16:19] <mikestir> Cstray is the pin capacitance and board or trace PCB-related capacitance. Typically, it is
[16:19] <mikestir> between 2 pF and 7 pF."
[16:19] <aadamson> ya might have to vm to do that
[16:19] <mikestir> so if you assume it's 5pF, and CL is 12pF, you need an extra 7
[16:19] <Laurenceb> interesting
[16:19] <mikestir> so actually 12pF shouldn't be far off
[16:20] <Laurenceb> hmm
[16:20] <LeoBodnar> 5pF seems a bit too much
[16:20] <Laurenceb> its very small
[16:20] <Laurenceb> and right next to the stm32
[16:20] <mikestir> it does seem a bit much
[16:20] <Laurenceb> id guess less than 0.8pF stray
[16:20] <LeoBodnar> HC=49 has about 4pF capaciatnce
[16:20] <mikestir> it's not just stray though
[16:20] <mikestir> it's the oscillator as well
[16:20] <Laurenceb> then whatever is internal to the chip
[16:20] <mikestir> which is why you consult the datasheet for the mcu
[16:20] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:21] <Laurenceb> id say if they say "typically 2 to 7" its going to be 2
[16:21] <Laurenceb> as its right up close and very small
[16:21] <mikestir> so you need an extra 10pF, so a pair of 18 or 22s
[16:21] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:21] <mikestir> or one of each
[16:21] <Laurenceb> interesting idea
[16:21] <LeoBodnar> oscillator package capacitance is already taken out of recommended external capacitance values
[16:22] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:22] <Laurenceb> just IC and stray capacitance
[16:22] <aadamson> been lively :)... I've got to get some things done today - including playing with new controller, but alas, that will have to wait. Thanks for the constructive discussion... see what you started adamgreig :)
[16:23] <aadamson> hehe - me thinks Laurenceb will have an adjusted RTC before the day is over
[16:23] <Laurenceb> ive already adjusted it
[16:23] <Laurenceb> using the trim registers :P
[16:24] <Laurenceb> but thats cheating :D
[16:24] <aadamson> oh.... lol... I thought that's what they were for :)... later all and thanks agian!
[16:24] <aadamson> again
[16:25] <Laurenceb> cya
[16:30] <adamgreig> ugh, my windows xp vm won't run the st stuff to update the stlink firmware either
[16:30] <adamgreig> boo
[16:31] <Laurenceb> someone was trying to reverse engineer it with a python script
[16:31] <Laurenceb> not sure how far they got
[16:33] <Laurenceb> http://www.taylorkillian.com/2013/01/retrieving-st-linkv2-firmware-from.html
[16:35] <mikestir> I don't know why silicon vendors insist on everything being windows only. I don't think I know a single engineer who wouldn't rather work in linux or os x
[16:35] <mikestir> I had a conversation with an atmel FAE about this once, when they brought out that new AVR studio. He was going on about how great it was that it was based on visual studio. I didn't share his enthusiasm
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[16:38] <LeoBodnar> lol "When used with the proper software, it works quite well. However Linux support was initially lacking"
[16:39] <eroomde> apparently solidworks is etting a port atm
[16:39] <eroomde> which is nice
[16:39] <eroomde> then windows can die forever
[16:40] <eroomde> we had the LabView Rep come and visit us last week
[16:40] <eroomde> poor poor man
[16:40] <eroomde> he got about 55 minutes of james and I talking about why free software is better
[16:40] <eroomde> and about 5 minutes of talking about our coffee making equipment (he liked coffee)
[16:40] <eroomde> and that was about it
[16:40] <fsphil> some kind of intervention
[16:41] <Miek> mikestir: it's funny reading the Nordic support site, you often get comments from the developers there saying they'd rather be using linux too
[16:41] <eroomde> well actually we did sit on stools in the lab, us too opposing him
[16:41] <eroomde> more of an interview set-up
[16:42] <zyp> 18:19:49 < mikestir> so if you assume it's 5pF, and CL is 12pF, you need an extra 7
[16:42] <zyp> I'm not sure if I got the context right, but I believe you're wrong
[16:43] <Laurenceb> zyp: so what do you need?
[16:43] <zyp> the C_L rating on a capacitor is not the value you should use for the loading caps as is
[16:44] <zyp> the load on each pin should be around twice the value of C_L
[16:44] <mikestir> no, hence the reduction by the 5pF stray+pin cap
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[16:44] <mikestir> which is what LeoBodnar said - the caps appear in series
[16:45] <zyp> no
[16:45] <zyp> if you have 5pF of stray and C_L is 12pF, you want the capacitors to be 19pF
[16:45] <mikestir> they do - but go on...
[16:46] <Laurenceb> depends how you define stray
[16:46] <mikestir> in this case everything other than the caps you add
[16:46] <Laurenceb> to ground or between pins?
[16:46] <mikestir> so board, pin, oscillator and any extra internal to the chip
[16:47] <Laurenceb> ah datasheet says 5pF
[16:48] <mikestir> capacitance to ground appears as a series combination - ground is essentially just a node
[16:48] <zyp> mikestir, oh, right, I didn't read far enough up, so I didn't get the entire context
[16:48] <zyp> you're right, what I'm saying is what LeoBodnar said
[16:48] <sp2ipt> did anyone use ICS511 chip wich Meiden CO-T67 TCXO? Or at least does anyone have datasheet for those TCXOs?
[16:48] <mikestir> yes - the 7pF I mentioned is the total additional required, so it needs 14pF caps on each pin
[16:49] <zyp> ok, sorry for assuming
[16:50] <Laurenceb> so i have virtually no additional capacitance
[16:50] <Laurenceb> as the xtal is right up to the micro
[16:50] <Laurenceb> so xtal says 12.5, meaning i need 2 x 20pF ?
[16:50] <zyp> one on each pin, yes
[16:51] <zyp> I fucked up that once on a 2.4GHz transceiver
[16:52] <zyp> which resulted in my carrier being 400kHz off where it should be, which is kind of a problem when you're dealing with a 1MHz channel width
[16:52] <zyp> made for some fun interopability problems
[16:54] <zyp> this was a Nordic transceiver, and it didn't have any problems with other Nordic transceivers, but TI transceivers couldn't lock onto it and thus couldn't receive
[16:54] <zyp> but I could still receive from TI transceivers just fine
[16:55] <mikestir> hehe that doesn't say much for the receive filter in the nordic :)
[16:58] <Lunar_Lander> is it bad if the capacitors for the quartz are too big in value? what would happen?
[16:58] <mikestir> off frequency
[16:58] <mikestir> or if they're too big the oscillator won't start
[16:59] <Lunar_Lander> ah, thanks
[17:00] <Lunar_Lander> because the "arduino on a breadboard" tutorial said that 22 pF capacitors should be used, and on farnell I often see 18 pF noted for certain crystals
[17:01] <Lunar_Lander> and this is C_L to which that stray value needs to be added?
[17:01] <mikestir> yes CL is the total capacitance that should appear across the crystal, so 22pF capacitors gives you 11pF (because they appear in series), and 7pF of stray is not unreasonable for a circuit with a DIL IC on breadboard
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[17:04] <zyp> when you're breadboarding you don't really need the frequency to be accurate down to 30ppm or whatever the crystal is rated for, so as long as oscillation starts it's fine
[17:06] <mikestir> indeed. you'll almost certainly have no problems with no caps at all
[17:06] <mikestir> unless you're prototyping a clock :)
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[17:09] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
[17:10] <Lunar_Lander> mikestir, that is funny, there is a thread on the german mikrocontroller.net forums "Need help building a clock"
[17:10] <Lunar_Lander> this thread has by now more than 5000 posts I think
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[17:13] Action: mikestir must finish off that nixie clock
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[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[17:33] <S_Mark> hi Lunar_Lander
[17:33] <Lunar_Lander> how is life?
[17:36] <S_Mark> yeah good thank you
[17:36] <S_Mark> you?
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> same here
[17:40] <Lunar_Lander> but I know I have to make a V2.1 of my board
[17:40] <S_Mark> how come?
[17:41] <Lunar_Lander> forgot extra GND connection points for peripheral devices
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[17:46] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> http://www.fmylife.com/intimacy/21099986 - genius (worksafe)
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[17:55] <DL7AD> Upu: btw the tabs on snus reached almost my display edge :P
[18:01] Willdude123 (~Willdude1@unaffiliated/willdude123) joined #highaltitude.
[18:07] <Upu> you need a larger screen
[18:08] <DL7AD> Upu: for my notebook?
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[18:08] <Upu> ah :)
[18:08] <Upu> I'll start deleting them soon but you can use the filter
[18:09] <DL7AD> Upu: well im using 1x1920x1280px on my desktop. but im unable to carry them with a USV and with my notebook
[18:09] <Upu> yup
[18:10] <Laurenceb> ooh i didnt know this: stm32 can do hardware 1pps output
[18:11] <Laurenceb> no excuse not to make a GPS based automatic RTC calibrator
[18:12] <eroomde> how does the output help?
[18:13] <Laurenceb> it can be aligned to GPS 1PPS
[18:13] <Laurenceb> then the phase offset measured over a few tens of seconds should be enough to get accurate offset measurements
[18:14] <Laurenceb> if i was going to be really silly, I'd take a panel of datalogger boards and heat/cool then to a few different temperatures
[18:15] <Laurenceb> then set the RTC alarm feature to wake up the micro a few times per hour, read the onboard temperature sensor and recalibrate based on a lookup
[18:15] <Laurenceb> probably massive overkill but it would be fun
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: you mean using the pwm thingy?
[18:16] <Laurenceb> pwm thing?
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> PWM functional unit
[18:16] <Laurenceb> no
[18:16] <Laurenceb> theres a proper RTC on stm32
[18:17] <Laurenceb> timer hacks is for AVR :D
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[18:18] <Laurenceb> you can do improvised RTC on most avrs - they have a time that can run off external xtal
[18:18] <Laurenceb> *timer
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> Oh - you don't mean to log the GPS PPS output on the stm32 and internally compare the clock
[18:19] <Laurenceb> no, use a decent storage scope
[18:19] <Laurenceb> oh i get what you mean tnow
[18:19] <Laurenceb> nvm
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming there was a 'read back cycle count at which external PPS occurred'
[18:20] <Laurenceb> sadly not possible with stm32
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> Rather than your typical inaccurate 'set counter after interrupt'
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> Which typically has poor latency
[18:20] <SpeedEvil> ^jitter
[18:20] <Laurenceb> raw RTC counter has latency
[18:20] <Laurenceb> so thats not feasible
[18:20] <Laurenceb> bbl
[18:24] <Reb-SM3ULC> good evening
[18:26] <Reb-SM3ULC> a lot of flights thsi weekend
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> Saturday nights a night for flighting?
[18:29] <SpeedEvil> alright, even.
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[18:32] <flyer__> Hi there can some one please approve my flight doc??
[18:32] <eroomde> they use magic to read, from your mind, what the doc number is
[18:33] <eroomde> so give them a bit of the magic levels to recharge
[18:33] <eroomde> a bit of time for the magic levels*
[18:33] <amell> gee. its loon madness out there on snus.
[18:34] <eroomde> flyer__: you need to paste your doc number
[18:34] <amell> Upu apparently has 4 balloons on the go.
[18:34] <amell> every one has a slightly different horizon, nice concentric pattern
[18:35] <flyer__> I don't know the doc number
[18:43] <daveake> what flight name did you use?
[18:43] <Reb-SM3ULC> sp5nvx on world tour??
[18:43] <flyer__> that would be GDP 15 please. The one that was modified today
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[18:48] <daveake> 538a446a7008bd0709b95bb1dbd7cd28
[18:48] <daveake> Ask in #habhub for that to be approved
[18:48] <flyer__> thanks
[18:51] <amell> who/what is uggy? I see it in dl-fldigi but not in snus.
[18:52] <amell> rtty 150, that will be interesting.
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[18:53] <eroomde> probably the first time anyone has ever said that
[19:02] <adamgreig> welp. got code writnig to my stm32f4 just fine
[19:02] <adamgreig> but nothing is actually happening, of course
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[19:07] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: actually you might be onto something there
[19:07] <Laurenceb> its possible to run the core off the RTC xtal
[19:07] <Laurenceb> so PWM off a GPS with code based calibration might work ok
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[19:08] <mattbrejza> silly ublox, giving gpsfix=0x00 when it clearly has the time
[19:10] <Laurenceb> rtc time?
[19:12] <mattbrejza> potentially, it also reckons its a few 1000km altitude :/
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[19:14] <Laurenceb> what the heck is Aura 2 doing?
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[19:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its been and done I thought ?
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[19:50] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: I've added all the videos and pics from the ground, some of which make for some entertaining viewing :) enjoy #ukhas
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> it is interesting that the antenna straw concept has been used again: http://www.norb.co.uk/data/uploads/G0029912.JPG
[19:52] <fsphil> it certainly won't be the last (straw)
[19:53] <fsphil> (I do apologise)
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[19:54] <fsphil> the sound of the signal suggested it tumbled a bit and quickly smoothed out. the pictures make the burst seem worse
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:55] <eroomde> Lunar_Lander: it's been used hundreds of times
[19:55] <eroomde> how does an additional time make it interesting
[19:55] <Lunar_Lander> well every time I show a photo from my flight, people ask "is that a straw?"
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> It might be interesting here if you used actual straw
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> Just normal straws have gotten a bit boring
[19:56] <eroomde> it's been done for years
[19:57] <ibanezmatt13> I think the straw makes a satisfying addition, makes it look more real imo :)
[19:57] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[19:57] <fsphil> with a payload box made of wood
[19:58] <eroomde> you have to put something conductive in the straw, of course
[19:58] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: I've always liked photos from spacecraft that show part of it, like the Rosetta image of mars showing the solar panel
[19:58] <eroomde> some of my fav hab pics are like that
[19:58] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, that's what makes an image I think.
[19:58] <eroomde> i think on nova 3 or 4 9i forget) which was a batty payload, we had all sorts of ISS-like experiments and limbs and appendages
[19:59] <eroomde> and the camera was a webcam that seriously overheated
[19:59] <ibanezmatt13> Yes eroomde, I wouldn't have got far with just straws for the ground plane
[19:59] <eroomde> lemme try and find the pics
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[19:59] <eroomde> crap by today's standards but i like them
[19:59] <eroomde> they remind me of frontier days ;)
[20:00] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621752771172/
[20:01] <eroomde> that was a boom from which there was an estes D rocket launch
[20:01] <fsphil> nice
[20:01] <eroomde> and also a backup flight computer on the far box
[20:01] <eroomde> and some pv cells
[20:01] <eroomde> and something measuring ions
[20:01] <eroomde> and and and
[20:01] <ibanezmatt13> I like, they're awesome :)
[20:02] <craag> those pics make it look extra terrestrial :)
[20:02] <craag> (the pink streaks)
[20:02] <fsphil> the flare and fading almost makes it seem apollo-like
[20:02] <craag> yeah that's what I meant
[20:02] <eroomde> yeah
[20:02] <fsphil> that webcam really wasn't happy
[20:02] <eroomde> it really wasn't
[20:03] <eroomde> the pictures got purpler and noisier as it ascended
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:04] <eroomde> that payload also featured three mortar-deployed parachutes
[20:05] <eroomde> rigged by someone who shall remain nameless such that the chance of failure was not 3-times lower but 3-times higher
[20:05] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[20:05] <eroomde> but it also had a big passive airbreak to bring it down at 5m/s in the event of a chute failure
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[20:06] <SpeedEvil> Did the mortars shoot the airbrake to bits?
[20:07] <eroomde> nope
[20:07] <eroomde> just someone made a last-minute addition to the mortars to make one chute try and deploy the other 2
[20:07] <eroomde> in each case
[20:07] <eroomde> i.e. he tied all the chutes to each other
[20:07] <eroomde> resulting in none of them opening properly
[20:09] <eroomde> it was a high-point
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:14] <eroomde> adamgreig: this guy has some pleasingly nerdy memes
[20:14] <eroomde> http://axisofeval.blogspot.ca/
[20:14] <eroomde> you'll see the gifs if you just scroll down
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[20:15] <adamgreig> aah excellent
[20:17] <adamgreig> oh these are great
[20:21] <Laurenceb> today my head is exploding...
[20:21] <Laurenceb> i think i fixed my linear actuator controller
[20:21] <Laurenceb> but the code has gotten way too mental
[20:22] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/Chibi-Spectro/blob/master/threads/EKF_Pressure.c
[20:22] <adamgreig> 8 levels of indentation
[20:22] <adamgreig> for shame
[20:22] <adamgreig> using tabs instead of spaces too, to compound your guilt
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[20:23] <Laurenceb> hehe
[20:23] <eroomde> adam is right
[20:23] <eroomde> my co-worker is new to python
[20:24] <eroomde> he blasts away doing plumbing loss programs in ipython notebook
[20:24] <LeoBodnar> hahaha When somebody says "it's written in C, so it must be fast" http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xP-p-nGtozA/UJvqlRf0g3I/AAAAAAAABJ4/NP51t22n5hM/s320/c.gif
[20:24] <eroomde> asks for some help with a bug
[20:24] <eroomde> i walk voer to his screen
[20:24] <eroomde> my only reaction is something like
[20:24] <eroomde> OHMYGODPEP8FORFUCKSSAKE
[20:24] <eroomde> his text boxes actually have scrollbars, on a 24" monitor
[20:24] <eroomde> horizontal scrollbars
[20:25] <adamgreig> I really wish ipynb's text editor could display or wrap at 80c
[20:25] <eroomde> i like this one
[20:25] <eroomde> http://axisofeval.blogspot.ca/2012/07/when-language-designer-talks-about.html
[20:25] <eroomde> not seen that gif before
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> i remember when did a few lines in awk that did job in a bout 5 seconds after a guy failed to do it in SQL on Oracle in a bout 24 hours
[20:26] <eroomde> Oracle
[20:26] <LeoBodnar> language vanity is funny
[20:26] <Laurenceb> someone at work suggested "to move actuator in positive direction, turn motor on via H bridge, if the actuator has overshot, do the opposite"
[20:26] <LeoBodnar> haha
[20:27] <eroomde> my colleague is fond of saying that awk can reduce the time of the average experimental biology PhD by 6 months
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> caveman PID loop
[20:27] <Laurenceb> its not _quite_ so easy
[20:27] <Laurenceb> my current controller is _theoretically_ optimal
[20:27] <Laurenceb> when it works its epic... but thats not all the time
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[20:31] <eroomde> i have designed a umber of controllers that are theoretically optimal
[20:31] <eroomde> ...
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[20:44] <fsphil> why all the hate against tabs? :)
[20:45] <mikestir> yeah +1 for tabs (except in python, where it isn't worth the hassle)
[20:46] <amell> theoretically optimal? good grief. no such thing.
[20:47] <eroomde> no, theoretically optimal is fairly easy
[20:47] <eroomde> where i'm defining that the normal way - assuming your model is correct
[20:47] <amell> as opposed to practically optimal?
[20:47] <eroomde> but of course that's the hard bit
[20:48] <eroomde> exactly
[20:48] <eroomde> there's that old saying: all models are wrong, but some are useful
[20:51] <amell> Is MTK3339 ok for HAB? the data sheet claims high altitude functionality
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[20:52] <Upu> which variant ?
[20:52] <Upu> answer is no
[20:52] <amell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultimate-GPS-Breakout-channel-updates/dp/B008FZIZUE/ref=pd_sim_k_h_b_cs_7?ie=UTF8&refRID=19B5ZW78YJPHX6PQJK2D
[20:52] <Upu> yeah no
[20:52] <amell> Two things that really stand out about the new MTK3339-based module is the high-altitude functionality and the the built in data-logging capability. Most modules permit NMEA output only when the module is traveling under 515 m/s AND when its at an altitude of under 60,000 ft (18,000 m).
[20:52] <SIbot> In real units: 60,000 ft = 18 km
[20:53] <amell> Sibot: shush
[20:53] <Upu> Adafruit advise it works above25km
[20:53] <Upu> which it does
[20:53] <Upu> all the way to 27km where it stops
[20:53] <Upu> This is my shop so I'm biased but : http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60
[20:54] <craag> Also the position variation on it is rubbish compared to ublox
[20:54] <craag> For proof, watch GDP tomorrow at 9am
[20:54] <amell> yeah, just that i am adding stuff to amazon wishlist...
[20:54] <amell> now if you had your shop in amazon :)
[20:54] <Upu> you can do a wish list with me just get someone to pay for it and I'll make your wishes come true
[20:55] Action: Lunar_Lander is amazed
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> :P
[20:55] <Willdude123> I think I might actually solder my boards at some point #procrastination
[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> AVR is cool!
[20:58] <mattbrejza> your little mind will be blown when you see what other micros can do
[20:58] <fiftydollarsat> What sort of position variation, in metres, do you see with the Ublox GPS ?
[20:58] <amell> little? a mind is like a latex balloon.
[20:58] <Upu> 2 meters but depends on what mode its in
[20:59] <amell> it forever expands until it explodes.
[21:00] <LeoBodnar> this is mind-blowing
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[21:01] Action: amell is still trying to find a fluke 115 inside £100
[21:01] <Upu> I flew one side by side with a ublox once https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/Adafruit-Test-Module/IMG_1272.JPG
[21:01] <mattbrejza> <3 lassen iq
[21:01] <Upu> that was a special one Adafruit sent with the altitude limit unlocked
[21:01] <amell> you and your big polystyrene balls.
[21:02] <Upu> but even that was limited to 40k
[21:02] <Upu> Check what colour I painted it https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/Adafruit-Test-Module/IMG_1284.JPG
[21:03] <craag> Get-fix-faster pink!
[21:03] <amell> where do you get your balls from?
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> ROFL!
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> Y chromosome I think
[21:03] <mattbrejza> hobbycraft do them
[21:03] <mattbrejza> otherwise internets
[21:03] <Upu> E-Bay
[21:04] <amell> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/350631767654?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=108&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=108&ff19=0
[21:04] <amell> 250mm solid ball available.
[21:04] <Upu> cheap and easy
[21:05] <amell> what do people use them for, apart from habs...
[21:05] <amell> Next tracker could be an UpuEgg? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Polystyrene-Eggs-White-Modelling-Styrofoam-Craft-Choose-Size-Quantity-/160730977141?var=460050850327&_trksid=p2054897.l5668
[21:05] <Upu> just found this Darksides balloon from Dave's balloon https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/WJwLO.jpg
[21:05] <fsphil> good shot that
[21:05] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/OT2VE.jpg
[21:06] <Upu> we've flown eggs before
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[21:06] <amell> I like that shot of the balloon.
[21:07] <amell> bit closer and it would be even more awesome
[21:07] <Upu> Oh if anyone is interested replacement for Sarantel : http://i.imgur.com/C4DkEgp.jpg
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> oh cool
[21:09] <eroomde> yes cool
[21:09] <eroomde> combien de pounds?
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[21:10] <Upu> good question
[21:10] <Upu> not worked it out yet
[21:11] <Upu> should be close to the price of the Sarantel
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[21:13] <Laurenceb> looks heavy
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[21:17] <craag> gonzo_: Launching GDP from Stoney Cross at 9am tomorrow
[21:17] <craag> not a weekend I know
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[21:18] <gonzo_> Ah, ta for that. Won't be able to visit, but will have the radios on by remote.
[21:19] <fsphil> monday morning launch
[21:19] <fsphil> that's new
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[21:25] <Laurenceb> can someone explain load versus shunt capacitance here?
[21:25] <Laurenceb> http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1780809.pdf
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[21:26] <Upu> has there been a launch annoucement craag ?
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[21:31] <craag> Upu: It's a university team - what do you think? ;)
[21:31] <fsphil> is there a flight doc? :)
[21:31] <craag> Yes there is!
[21:31] <Upu> is there a payload ? :)
[21:31] <craag> I made sure...
[21:31] <fsphil> that's been tested and working :)
[21:31] <fsphil> hah
[21:31] <adamgreig> craag: hey now :P
[21:32] <craag> They've got me on as payload software and tracking consultant
[21:32] <craag> I'll send them the invoice tomorrow afternoon ;)
[21:32] <kc2pit> Waitwaitwait... you can get paid to do this?
[21:33] <craag> haha I wish..
[21:33] <kc2pit> Damn. Got my hopes up for a second there.
[21:33] <fsphil> I get paid in helium
[21:34] <mikestir> Laurenceb: the shunt capacitance is the crystal's own internal capacitance - it's part of the equivalent circuit and should have already been deducted from the specified load capacitance
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[21:34] <Laurenceb> mikestir: ok
[21:34] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: http://www.maximintegrated.com/app-notes/index.mvp/id/726
[21:35] <Laurenceb> i found a few forum posts where people were claiming that is shunt capacitance is given its to be taken off the load..
[21:35] <Laurenceb> dunno if thats nonsense or not :P
[21:35] <Laurenceb> thanks for the link
[21:35] <LeoBodnar> you usually measure shunt capacitance if you are building a crystal model, e.g. for designing ladder filters, etc
[21:36] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:36] <Laurenceb> do you need it to calculate the drive level?
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> I don't think so
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> it's parasitic
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> crystal does not need it to work
[21:38] <LeoBodnar> it's just an extra on top of "stray"
[21:38] <Laurenceb> i see
[21:39] <Laurenceb> so 12pF - 2.5pF(datasheet micro pins/2) - 1pf/2 (stray to ground)
[21:39] <Laurenceb> gives 9pF, times 2 gives 18pF needed?
[21:40] <g0pai_ian> craag: good luck. Working with with groups, Uni or not, needs a strong leader and a lot of passive spectators on the team. Otherwise the smarts are swamped by the nay sayers who othewise contribute zilch.
[21:40] <LeoBodnar> sounds about right
[21:40] <g0pai_ian> You may not be able to submit an invoice, but a note with a "suggested donation" will slow up the fools and give any latent brains a chance to work unimpeded.
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[21:42] <LeoBodnar> i think you are oversweating it Laurenceb, time for an experiment
[21:42] <Laurenceb> ok
[21:43] <mikestir> does it even need to be that accurate if it's for mcu timing?
[21:43] <Laurenceb> well RTC mistakes cost me perhaps 25ppm
[21:43] <Laurenceb> mikestir: no
[21:43] <Laurenceb> im just trying to get it spot on
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> does your crystal specify pullability?
[21:44] <Laurenceb> no
[21:44] <Willdude123> O how confusing is algorithm computation time (pun intended)
[21:45] <g0pai_ian> A class answer for a B class question?
[21:45] <g0pai_ian> Watching rivitted from the stalls :-) K Leo, your extended audience awaits
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> you can zero in within two minutes and a few caps
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> have i been questioned ?
[21:46] <Laurenceb> heh
[21:47] <g0pai_ian> No, it sounded like you were about to conduct a mini tutorial and I'm genuinely intested (in a small way)
[21:47] <g0pai_ian> Would I dare . . . ?
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> oh, it was an unintended promise
[21:48] <mikestir> does it even need to be that accurate if it's for mcu timing?
[21:48] <mikestir> oops
[21:48] <mikestir> that "up, enter" was meant to be aimed at a shell
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[23:05] <qbit> haio!
[23:05] <qbit> anyone know what would cause a hx1 144.390-10 to transmit on 144.380?
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[23:08] <craag> qbit: Is this with TXD at 2.5V?
[23:11] <qbit> lml
[23:12] <qbit> 5v
[23:14] <qbit> well 4.88 of usb
[23:14] <craag> Ok, what frequency is it at if you connect TXD to 0V?
[23:15] <qbit> hm.. not sure i can test that from the trackuino
[23:15] <craag> Ah you've got it in a trackuino
[23:15] <qbit> yep
[23:16] <craag> Are you powering it all off usb?
[23:16] <qbit> tried both usb and 5v via barrel (9v battery)
[23:17] <craag> Hmm you'd think the trackuino would set the correct voltage input
[23:17] <craag> So I can't help you, sorry. Have you tried emailing their mailing list/forum?
[23:18] <qbit> not yet - i did a pretty sloppy soldering job on the ic's that are connected to it
[23:18] <qbit> was going to get a buddy to help clean them up
[23:18] <craag> Ok, try that first then.
[23:18] <craag> I'm not sure TXD should be held up at Vcc
[23:18] <craag> So it might be that you've got a solder bridge somewhere..
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[23:19] <qbit> mk
[23:19] <qbit> craag: thanks :D
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[00:00] --- Mon Mar 31 2014