highaltitude.log.20140328

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[07:38] <WillTablet> craag: as a cyber member (and an inactive member), I take it I can't go to the BATC BiAGM
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[09:17] <craag> WillTablet: I wouldn't go along to the BiAGM itself (a 1 hour meeting) anyway, it'll be a bit boring. There'll be a programme of talks over the weekend though (like UKHAS) and a bunch of people with stands set up showing off stuff.
[09:31] <gonzo_> if you are a paid up member, you can go the the meeting. But yep, that bit is boring.
[09:32] <gonzo_> The program of talks are usually well worth seeing (anyone can go to those, members get a cheaper rate if booking in advance, £5 rather than £7.50 per day ?)
[09:33] <gonzo_> though it looks like the ukhas conf may clash with one of the days
[09:40] <UpuWork> well may be changing
[09:40] <UpuWork> as I need the batc.tv boys there :)
[09:41] <daveake> hah
[09:43] <GW8RAK> Morning. Long time since I've been on here. Does anyone have any comparative signal performance data of FSK vs AFSK please?
[09:44] <GW8RAK> With regards HAB'ing.
[09:48] <jcoxon> not particular data
[09:49] <craag> Maybe 10dB or so penalty with FM AFSK?
[09:49] <jcoxon> i've always thought that FSK was a better approach for HABs
[09:49] <craag> You've got the wider demod bandwidth that's probably about 6dB
[09:50] <craag> And then you've got the FM discriminator threshold
[09:51] <craag> Googling suggests that's probably about 5dB?
[09:52] <GW8RAK> Yes, agree. I was trying to get some figures to respond to a forum discussion as to why HAB is "based" on FSK RTTY rather than AFSK.
[09:55] <craag> It's very easy to build transmitters for is probably one of the main reasons.
[09:55] <mfa298> FSK rtty is very easy to do with sometihng like the NTX2B which makes it good for beginners
[09:56] <craag> And with RF SoCs such as the si4x6x series.
[09:57] <craag> You just change the frequency :)
[09:57] <GW8RAK> SoC's?
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[09:58] <fsphil> system on chip
[09:58] <GW8RAK> Oh, not heard that term before. Will Google for some.
[09:58] <fsphil> not sure it applies to the si chips?
[09:59] <mikestir> no, the Si406x isn't a soc
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[09:59] <mikestir> it's a SoC if it has a built in microcontroller
[10:02] <GW8RAK> Just found the Si4060. Been playing with a Si570 as a signal source and it is quite liberating.
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[11:02] <craag> Fair enough, I guess the correct term for the si type is a 'Mixed Signal IC'?
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[11:56] <craag> I just got an email about the Quectel L70 GPS, claims 1.4ma consumption in Power Save Tracking.
[11:56] <UpuWork> MTK
[11:57] <UpuWork> also altitude locked
[11:57] <UpuWork> and doesn't work at 1.8V
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[11:57] <craag> Ah was looking for that
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[11:58] <craag> What's bad about MTK?
[11:58] <Joel_re> 18k meters limit
[11:58] <craag> Apart from the limit
[11:58] <Joel_re> eroomde: the 5x5 ground plane below the patch antenna does wonders
[11:58] <Joel_re> thanks for that suggestion
[11:58] <Joel_re> I get a fix indoors
[11:59] <UpuWork> nothing particularly just generally altitude locked and deviation is noticably more than the ublox
[11:59] <UpuWork> afk
[12:00] <craag> Ok, wondering about use as a pico chipset
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[12:03] <mikestir> I have got to get one of these: http://dangerousprototypes.com/2014/03/25/tektronix-mdo4104b-6-mixed-domain-oscilloscope-mdo4000b-review-and-experiments/
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[12:10] <RocketBoy> anyone know andrew cox of Andrew Cox Ltd - pf QinetiQ 1 fame http://www.andrewcoxltd.com/project11.html ?
[12:11] <sp2ipt> mikestir: 65dB dynamic range isn't something special but overall device looks quite interesting
[12:12] <mikestir> sp2ipt: I can see the triggering features being particularly useful
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[12:19] <sp2ipt> mikestir: yes, it's a whole new level of possibilities. Capturing 1G bandwidth at a time is also nice
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[12:24] <fsphil> RocketBoy: I remember that, called off due to weather wasn't it?
[12:24] <fsphil> I never heard about it again after that
[12:26] <fsphil> or did they lose the balloon. I can't remember
[12:27] <fsphil> ah both
[12:27] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QinetiQ_1
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[12:33] <RocketBoy> yeah - I dont think it actually few - evidently there is some breaking news about him and the gardian rang
[12:33] <RocketBoy> no idea what though
[12:34] <UpuWork> interesting
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[12:44] <fsphil> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/28/facebook-hires-drone-making-team-spread-internet-a/
[12:47] <daveake> yes found that :)
[12:52] <fsphil> I do believe FB boss Mark Whatshisname has gone a bit mad
[12:54] <mfa298> it almost looks like they published that story 4 days too early.
[12:54] <fsphil> I thought that about the Oculus buyout too
[12:54] <SpeedEvil> start to worry when they begin purchasing railgun companies.
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[12:57] <gonzo_> if he buy's a pacific island ans starts stroking a white cat, then we will know
[12:59] <gonzo_> though putting a drone team together couldjust be for fun. Branson brought a balloon company, just so he could play
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[13:07] <SpeedEvil> Branson had the most awesome 'properly rich' photo I've seen.
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> http://pictzz.blogspot.co.uk/2009/05/richard-branson-and-naked-denni.html
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> (sort-of-work-safe)
[13:08] <SpeedEvil> Actually - not the latter ones
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[14:23] <SpeedEvil> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-highest-flying-wind-turbine
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[14:30] <ibanezmatt13> you know if my payload doc expects $$NORB2 etc and I actually transmit $$$$NORB2 etc, would it work ok?
[14:31] <fsphil> yes
[14:31] <Laurenceb__> SpeedEvil: i prefer makani power
[14:31] <SpeedEvil> I choose to read that as mankini power.
[14:32] <ibanezmatt13> thanks fsphil :)
[14:32] <Laurenceb__> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSYMHzgLLn8&feature=player_embedded
[14:33] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, Just wondering also why this tracker isn't appearing on the map BRON, seems ok in the log tail http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> ooh
[14:34] <ibanezmatt13> it has no lock yet :P nvm
[14:35] <fsphil> :)
[14:35] <ibanezmatt13> taking a while. Chip antennas can lie flat can't they?
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> The radiation pattern depends on the design.
[14:36] <SpeedEvil> Sometimes, yes.
[14:36] <ibanezmatt13> So mounting them upright is generally better?
[14:36] <craag> They work fine flat, but upright is ideal.
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[14:37] <ibanezmatt13> I'd better leave it flat since otherwise I'll have my antenna poking out of the ball side ways. I'll leave it for a few mins, should lock soon
[14:38] <ibanezmatt13> ok that's worrying. I've gone from the correct time and no position data, to midnight and no position data. Come on BRON, don't leave NORB on it's own...
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[14:42] <UpuWork> it resets after a while throw it outside
[14:45] <ibanezmatt13> Ok will do.
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[14:47] <ibanezmatt13> Damn rain
[14:47] <UpuWork> stick it in a bag
[14:47] <UpuWork> its not going to lock in doors
[14:48] <ibanezmatt13> ok, will do :)
[14:48] <ibanezmatt13> Also UpuWork, I'm ready to start the Yagi. I have the coax with pre crimped bnc
[14:48] <UpuWork> good
[14:49] <ibanezmatt13> Can't quite remember the proceedure :/
[14:49] <UpuWork> haha
[14:50] <UpuWork> I drew a picture with it
[14:50] <ibanezmatt13> yea, erm. Well, I'll go get it :P
[14:51] <ibanezmatt13> got it
[14:52] <ibanezmatt13> braid gets soldered to one side, feed gets soldered to the other bit, of that bit that's slightly falling off. Is the feed the conductive bit "inside" the greyish insulating bit?
[14:53] <UpuWork> well I think you'll struggle to solder it
[14:53] <UpuWork> just jam it in the elements and push that white spacer thing in
[14:53] <ibanezmatt13> right, sounds simple enough. Is there a way to test if I've done it right?
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[14:54] <ibanezmatt13> Like, if it doesn't pickup my tracker on the window ledge I've failed, kinda thing
[14:54] <UpuWork> check continuity from the relevant element to the other end of the coax
[14:54] <sp2ipt> is the dipole folded?
[14:54] <UpuWork> its a yagi
[14:54] <UpuWork> that I got a sample
[14:54] <UpuWork> and the wire fell out
[14:55] <UpuWork> so I didn't buy any :)
[14:55] <ibanezmatt13> Ok, and it doesn't matter which part of the element I attach to which part of the coax so long as they're separate?
[14:55] <UpuWork> center was left gnd was right
[14:56] <sp2ipt> that was not the point :) if the dipole is folded it's better to check the resistance on coax connector
[14:56] <UpuWork> oh
[14:56] <mfa298> if it's just a simple dipole as the driven section then it shouldn't matter which is the center and which is the braid
[14:56] <UpuWork> its not
[14:56] <sp2ipt> ibanezmatt13: if u use only one antenna it doesn't matter
[14:56] <UpuWork> its not a folder one
[14:56] <UpuWork> folded
[14:56] <ibanezmatt13> lemme take a pic, for my own sake too :)
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[14:57] <UpuWork> BRON has no GPS signal at all btwe
[14:57] <ibanezmatt13> I hope you're joking ;P
[14:57] <UpuWork> no
[14:57] <UpuWork> its not got any signal
[14:57] <UpuWork> power cycle it
[14:58] <UpuWork> make sure antenna is up
[14:58] <ibanezmatt13> I'm not sure what you mean, and it's in the ball as if it was flat so the antenna comes out the bottom
[14:58] <ibanezmatt13> you mean, turn it off and on again?
[15:00] <ibanezmatt13> BRON and Yagi here: http://1drv.ms/1dAJ4KP So in that orientation UpuWork, feed on the "right" braid on the "left"
[15:04] <sp2ipt> looks like dk7zb yagi
[15:04] <sp2ipt> but looking at the quality hurts my teeth :D
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[15:06] <ibanezmatt13> Rain stopped, power cycling now :)
[15:15] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, adding $$ infront of the $$ that is already there, before calculating the checksum, will result in a checkum error yeah?
[15:16] <mfa298> that's likely to depend on how your checksum code works.
[15:16] <craag> ibanezmatt13: You need to change the '2' in the checksum for loop, to '4'
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> aah that makes sense!
[15:16] <ibanezmatt13> of course, how stupid of me :P
[15:17] <ibanezmatt13> wait, I don't have a for loop :)
[15:17] <mfa298> a better method would be to look for a non '$' before doing the calc but that's not a change to make the say before launch
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> http://pastebin.com/ts6wjiSj There's no for loop here
[15:18] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, don't wanna be making too many changes mfa298. I'm just seeing if I can change from sending $$NORB2 to $$$$NORB2
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[15:18] <daveake> Add 2 to the poimter semd tp gps_CRC16_checksum
[15:18] <daveake> sent to
[15:19] <daveake> </dodgy_code_r_us>
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> ah so I should make that 9
[15:19] <daveake> what now?
[15:19] <ibanezmatt13> maybe not
[15:20] <mfa298> or look at the gps_CRC16_checksum function as that'll be where the for loop is.
[15:20] <daveake> Don't think you quite understood that
[15:20] <daveake> So that routine needs to be told where to start
[15:20] <ibanezmatt13> ah of course, ignore me
[15:20] <ibanezmatt13> It's been one of those days
[15:20] <daveake> And the quick but possibly ugly fix is to add 2 to the pointer that you're passing to it
[15:21] <daveake> But look in that function so you understand what it's doing
[15:21] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I remember now, I've sorted it I think. I'll fire it up
[15:21] <daveake> A better solution (but don't do this now!) would be what mfa298 suggested - have the checksum code look for the first non-$ character
[15:22] <daveake> Another way would be to hand it an index
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[15:22] <daveake> and another way would be to add the $$$$s after the call
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13> I see there are many ways to do this :)
[15:22] <daveake> C = see how many ways you can think of doing the same thing
[15:22] <ibanezmatt13> I'll stick with the slightly modified for loop for now, it should be fine. :)
[15:23] <daveake> It will be
[15:23] <daveake> till you make it $$$$ or $$ again
[15:23] <mfa298> that's true of most code there are usually several good ways to do something, and usually even more ways you can do it that are bad (for various reasons)
[15:23] <ibanezmatt13> yea
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[15:50] <ibanezmatt13> Do you reckon leaving the GoPro bacpac battery connected to the GoPro, even though they're off, might drain the battery while connected?
[15:52] <craag> Shouldn't do I'd have thought.
[15:52] <craag> Although still worth charging them again the night before launch.
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> Both are fully charged now but the idea was to connect the bacpac and mount it in the box ready for turning on externally before launch
[15:53] <ibanezmatt13> Just wondered about it draining over night. Might be safer to leave both disconnected until we get there I suppose :)
[15:53] <craag> Given it doesn't run it's own battery down that fast when off - can't see why it would run the bacpac down.
[15:54] <craag> Yes good idea
[15:54] <craag> Play it safe :)
[15:54] <cm13g09> craag: ping
[15:54] <craag> cm13g09:
[15:56] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Launching tomorrow?
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> yup
[15:56] <ibanezmatt13> 11am
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[15:58] <craag> Awesome, I'll be at work so can't help track but will be watching the no-doubt-chaotic map! good luck!
[15:58] <englishman> My GoPro seems to always self discharge when I need it most.. I'd leave it plugged in...
[16:00] <myself> Yeah, plan to apply a topping charge just before use, regardless. you never know what parasitic loads the device has.
[16:00] Action: DL7AD germanman
[16:00] <ibanezmatt13> thanks craag :)
[16:00] <DL7AD> morning
[16:01] <DL7AD> :)
[16:01] <ibanezmatt13> craag, there seems to have been come confusion about launches. The many frequencies put out on the mailing list I think are for next weekend.
[16:01] <craag> myself: Or when you've forgotten to put that nth bi of kit on charge at all :/
[16:01] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Yes Dave+anthony are next weekend
[16:02] <myself> That's what checklists are for.
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[16:02] <craag> Looks like still you, AURA, and CHEAPO though.
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> yep think so
[16:02] <myself> I use a todo list app for my phone (wunderlist, syncs with my pc) to keep travel packing lists, launch checklists, all sorts of stuff.
[16:02] <ibanezmatt13> myself, I have a 4 page checklist which I'm slowly getting through tonight, and seem to be adding more stuff to :)
[16:02] <chrisstubbs> I *may* launch cheapo tonight, will have to wait and see
[16:02] <myself> Yup. That's a good thorough review!
[16:03] <chrisstubbs> I should probably start putting the payload together now then ;)
[16:03] <ibanezmatt13> haha
[16:03] <ibanezmatt13> Oh craag chrisstubbs, those boards are finally on the way :)
[16:03] <craag> nice :)
[16:04] <chrisstubbs> which ones exactly?
[16:04] <ibanezmatt13> NORB 4
[16:04] <chrisstubbs> the curvy ones?
[16:04] <ibanezmatt13> yea
[16:04] <ibanezmatt13> Should keep me busy
[16:04] <chrisstubbs> sweet
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[16:08] <sp2ipt> DL7AD: hi
[16:08] <mfa298> chrisstubbs: what's the panic, you've still got several hours before launch if you do go for tonight
[16:09] <DL7AD> sp2ipt: hi
[16:10] <chrisstubbs> Ah my grandads just got here, most likely will be tomorrow
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[16:36] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: better to fix the checksum function to skip however many $'s there are
[16:37] <fsphil> then there's no chance of a mistake
[16:38] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I've changed it from 2 to 4, works perfectly now :)
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[16:39] <daveake> After the flight, get it to skip the $'s itself,
[16:39] <daveake> oh
[16:39] <fsphil> TV is more interesting :p
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[16:40] <fsphil> when's he launching, tomorrow?
[16:40] <daveake> Tomorrow @ Elsworth
[16:40] <fsphil> oh yea, lots of launching tomorrow
[16:41] <daveake> I'm sure none of us would consider making software changes within 24 hours of launch ............
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[16:42] <fsphil> not 24 hours definitly not
[16:42] <fsphil> 4 maybe
[16:42] <daveake> haha
[16:43] <mfa298> 24 hours before is when you grab the coffee and start thinking about writing the code isn't it ?
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[16:44] <daveake> Not here I don't
[16:45] <daveake> s/coffee/tea
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[16:45] <craag> coffee is for 6 hours before the 9am launch :)
[16:45] <fsphil> one of these days I'll have a early night before a launch
[16:45] <fsphil> it hasn't happened yet
[16:45] <fsphil> but soon
[16:45] <daveake> and Pepsi Max when it gets serious
[16:46] <fsphil> lol
[16:46] <fsphil> pepsi max is nice until it warms up a bit
[16:46] <fsphil> has to be drunk quickly
[16:46] <daveake> double the caffeine of coke zero
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[16:46] <daveake> There used to be a stuff called Jolt Cola. Dunno if it's still sold
[16:46] <mfa298> so what we're agreeing on is H2O with disolved C8H10N4O2 in it.
[16:47] <daveake> common them yes :)
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[16:48] <sp2ipt> anyone knows a friendly filter design software? I need to design BPF for 110-170MHz preferably using standard values
[16:54] <sp2ipt> found http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~fisher/cgi-bin/lcfilter - looks good, proposed values are close to standard element values
[17:04] <eroomde> Joel_re: yep! ground plane makes a word of difference
[17:16] <mattbrejza> hmm looks like perfect conditions to launch a floater to the us?
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[17:19] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: -250K ? ;)
[17:21] <eroomde> this seems a bit me-too http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-26784438
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[17:37] <Habjoe> Hi jcoxon: are you able to approve my flight docs for tomorrow, 73620a4c3b4f78cb798b228c653184c7?
[17:38] <eroomde> Habjoe: you can aks anyone too, and especially there are more people on #habhub
[17:39] <eroomde> which is the place to nerd out about the servery infrastructure
[17:39] <eroomde> among other good quality nerdery
[17:39] <Upu> I'll get it Habjoe
[17:40] <Habjoe> Thanks Upu, cheers
[17:40] <Upu> you're approved Sir have a nice day thanks for flying Team Habhub
[17:40] <Habjoe> ... many thanks, here's to a good signal this time...!
[17:41] <Willdude123> Wow. My VPS changed node. And the ip is the same - weird
[17:41] <craag> #habhub watch the lights.. "flash flash flash... wait for it... flash flash"
[17:41] <eroomde> good service huh
[17:41] <eroomde> i like the idea of Team Habhub
[17:41] <eroomde> that would be at least business class
[17:42] <eroomde> spot would by ryanair
[17:42] <eroomde> general discussion about plane metaphors
[17:42] <eroomde> i do want my pilot's license
[17:42] <eroomde> i've just gone to our french house, i arrived an hour ago, i left oxford at 4.10am
[17:43] <eroomde> if the plane can get that trip down to <= 6 hrs, i'm sold
[17:43] <eroomde> as i do like it here, but i don't like loosing a whole day to getting here
[17:44] <Willdude123> eroomde, yeah, I had that when I went to France
[17:44] <Willdude123> Whereabouts in France?
[17:45] <Willdude123> Did you fly?
[17:45] <eroomde> Burgundy, where my family is from
[17:45] <eroomde> nope, oxford-london via coach, london-paris via eurostar, paris-dijon via TGV, dijon-beaune via local trains
[17:45] <eroomde> currently in savigney-les-beaune
[17:46] <Willdude123> That's a bitch
[17:46] <eroomde> well it's not a great strain
[17:46] <Upu> at least with Team Habhub we'd know where the plane was
[17:46] <Upu> too soon ?
[17:46] <eroomde> had a nice steak tartar in paris, read a book on the trains, which are all comfortable enough
[17:46] <eroomde> but it's still a long time
[17:46] <eroomde> Upu: yes too soon
[17:46] <Upu> kk
[17:46] <Willdude123> See the thing is for school trips they looked into doing the eurostar but it's just as fast to go by ferry
[17:47] <eroomde> especially if you turn the gps off
[17:47] <eroomde> also eurostar is too expensive
[17:47] <eroomde> i quite often drive
[17:47] <eroomde> £60 for a car on chunnel, and about 1 tank of petrol to get down
[17:47] <Willdude123> Drive? Didn't know you could drive through the tunnel
[17:47] <eroomde> yep
[17:47] <eroomde> there are car trains
[17:47] <Willdude123> Or do you drive onto a
[17:47] <eroomde> it's called Le Shuttle
[17:47] <eroomde> been doing it for years
[17:47] <Willdude123> Pssht
[17:47] <Willdude123> Le shuttle
[17:48] <eroomde> dad bought shares back in the 80's so get's £1 crossings
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[17:48] <eroomde> gets*
[17:48] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: NORB 2 launch at 11am tomorrow. All trackers welcome, can follow at http://t.co/lKuGp79vAH :) #ukhas #hamr @G0TDJ as promised ^
[17:48] <Willdude123> Is it weird in a right hand drive car?
[17:48] <eroomde> i'm used to it
[17:49] <eroomde> roundabouts were weird at first]but you switch over within a couple of miles
[17:49] <eroomde> but yes i do find it harder than driving rental cars that are left-hand
[17:49] <Willdude123> I went to alencon for the exchange
[17:49] <eroomde> as that's a perfect mirror image, which is a much easier switch
[17:49] <Willdude123> Which was cool
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[17:50] <eroomde> bbl Willdude123
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[17:55] <Willdude123> mfw eroomde said something I had to UD
[17:55] <Willdude123> So I got a free copy of this MegunoLink Pro software
[17:56] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, where do you launch norb from?
[17:56] <ibanezmatt13> It will be Elsworth tomorrow, near Cambridge
[17:57] <Willdude123> I see
[17:57] <Willdude123> Might try some tracking
[17:57] <Willdude123> Which way's it likely to head?
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> Your most welcome to :)
[17:57] <ibanezmatt13> It's predicted to head north east ish, one sec
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=cd2b02dc018d3aba755944aa3544dd05a9317008
[17:58] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, not likely to be able to, my aerial set up is somewhat
[17:58] <Willdude123> Primitive
[17:58] <Willdude123> To say the least
[17:58] <ibanezmatt13> haha, I'm sure it's better than my setup :P
[17:59] <daveake> ibanezmatt13 By "north east" you mean "west" :p
[17:59] <ibanezmatt13> that's the one
[17:59] <ibanezmatt13> Supposedly further maths student, doesn't know east from west, marvellous :P
[17:59] <amell> Elsworth - ha. I will definately pick that up
[18:00] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123, in order to track daveake's flights I set up my receiver then stand holding a magmount out of my window so it's about 2ft away from the window so I hear something :)
[18:00] <SIbot> In real units: 2 ft = 0.61 m
[18:01] <ibanezmatt13> Takes roughly a day to overcome the dead arm
[18:02] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13, I see
[18:02] <Willdude123> I got bored of repeater nattering, so not used my aerial
[18:02] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: visit B&Q and invest in one of 34mm ABS waste pipe, broomstick handle or possibly some sort of metal rod/box section
[18:02] <Willdude123> Not used my HF one either
[18:02] <mfa298> and use that to stick the antenna on - means less holding arms out the window :)
[18:02] <Willdude123> Not heard anything that isn't pointing something like a kilowatt erp at me
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298, you know, sometime this summer I might have a go at making one. It's mainly my location I'm afraid :/
[18:03] <amell> why are there 3 balloons next to the M58? are they all the same?
[18:03] Action: ibanezmatt13 claims responsibility
[18:03] <amell> you actually need to drive all the way down here to launch them?
[18:04] <ibanezmatt13> one was a cockup, one is to go up tomorrow, the other is a backup to go up tomorrow to.
[18:04] <mfa298> I've just got something similar to the payload antenna on the wiki on some wooden quadrant stuff I had lying around which does a good enough job for me.
[18:04] <amell> I might pop over and watch tomorrow, I am 20 mins walk away from elsworth
[18:04] <amell> depends what happens in the morning, and the wifely requirements.
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> haha, feel free :)
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[18:05] <fsphil> is this a proper latex flight, not these pansy foils?
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> 1200g
[18:05] <ibanezmatt13> H2 :)
[18:05] <amell> thats no pansy
[18:05] <amell> Im definately going to bring my lighter
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> now now, let's not get silly
[18:06] <amell> Do you need a live video feed?
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[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> Erm, I don't think we have one
[18:06] <fsphil> nice, I'll be able to track this one if I'm about
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> cheers fsphil
[18:07] <amell> are you planning to float? whats the objective?
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13> amell, we looked into streaming over a 3G tmobile stick that we'll be relying on for emergency IRC tomorrow
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> Is there a cheap solution for - say - 1.5m diameter 'rigid' ?
[18:07] <mikestir> ibanezmatt13: we're trying to identify somewhere near chester for the school to do another launch in july. Apparently Sheffield Uni got a NOTAM to launch from around there somewhere. There's an area that isn't on the approach for Liverpool, Manchester or Hawarden
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[18:07] <pnephos> Hello from Spain. :)
[18:07] <ibanezmatt13> oh wow mikestir, I'd be up for that :)
[18:08] <amell> ibanez: the mobile coverage at elsworth isnt brilliant.
[18:08] <mattbrejza> mikestir: get the airtraffic maps, and providing it isnt under an approach itll be fine
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> amell, it will hopefully go up to 30km ish, record nice go pro footage, test my first PCB tracker, basically
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> yea, it was a bit pathcy last time but all we have :/
[18:08] <amell> if i can get there, ill bring the ipad and stream it out.
[18:08] <ibanezmatt13> that'd be awesome, thanks! :)
[18:08] <mikestir> mattbrejza: that's what I've been looking at. liverpool and manchester are relatively close together though, so it takes out quite a big area
[18:09] <amell> seeing as its H2, staying well away in case it pops :)
[18:09] <mattbrejza> there was a kml with everything somewhere
[18:09] <ibanezmatt13> you won't be the only one :P
[18:09] <mikestir> and they have that huge airbus transport plane going in and out of hawarden
[18:09] <mattbrejza> not all airports have massive ATC zones
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/056/a/e/ae78050deca4b91cda4dee352785c6c0-d5w7tmm.jpg
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> (not very related)
[18:10] <pnephos> We are currently developing our very first HAB project, and we've found that the NTX2 radio module datasheet says that it is "usable over 500m". What does it mean? Can we use it for long distances (around 30km)? What about short distances (less than 500m)?
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[18:10] <SpeedEvil> pnephos: It means that it's generally usable for that at ground level.
[18:11] <fsphil> pnephos: that's the usable distance on the ground between the ntx2 and the radiometrix receiver (nrx2?)
[18:11] <mattbrejza> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:faq#how_come_on_the_radiometrix_ntx2_data_sheet_it_says_that_a_10mw_434075mhz_transmitter_only_goes_500m_but_you_still_use_it
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> pnephos: with a good receiver, in good conditions, it can be received at over 600km.
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> Or that
[18:11] <fsphil> for tracking these signals we use much better receivers and antennas
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: And much more importantly - line of sight
[18:11] <pnephos> That's great! Thank you ;)
[18:12] <amell> Does anyone know when the XABEN document will be loaded?
[18:12] <daveake> 10 mins before launch
[18:12] <fsphil> yes the line of sight is key
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[18:14] <amell> conundrum. need the document in advance to set the listener up, cant do that if at elsworth.
[18:14] <fsphil> vnc?
[18:14] <amell> I only have so many i devices.
[18:14] <amell> :)
[18:15] <aadamson> Upu, how low will the ltc boost controller go on single cell from your experience?
[18:15] <aadamson> and are you using the regular or the L version?
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[18:18] <mattbrejza> mikestir: just checked the charts, and yea, manchester/liverpool isnt the best area
[18:18] <aadamson> looks like the L version should go to approx .5 -.68v... guess we'll see... headed south of .95 at the moement
[18:18] <mattbrejza> better off launching near london :P
[18:19] <Upu> single AA or AAA aadamson ?
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[18:20] <aadamson> single AA
[18:20] <aadamson> alkaline for testing. didn't want to burn a li
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[18:26] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:17] <aadamson> hehe... just as I was typing... 2.03v on 100ma load were dead nutz until we hit .68v, then it fell off the cliff... but interestingly enough, it continued on... ran for 2 more minutes at 1.5v output all the way until it dropped to .53 volts, then the boost controller reset... very interesting indeed.... didn't use a brand new battery, but total time was on the order of 20hrs +/-... I'll do that test later...
[19:28] <Laurenceb__> http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/volvo-stack-e1314951030869.jpg
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[19:31] <gb73d> superb
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[19:54] <gb73d> has n e 1 used a skew planar wheel antenna for ballon receive ?
[19:55] <gb73d> thinkin of making one for UHF
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[19:59] <eroomde> nope, used a big wheel for send thogh
[19:59] <gb73d> i see
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[20:00] <gb73d> will research it
[20:00] <amell_> Live streaming from iPad/iphone over 3G - ustream or livestream? Can't find a hangouts live upload app
[20:00] <gb73d> ty
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[20:01] <eroomde> that was back before the DL, and hams would complain that all their antennas were horizontally polarised
[20:01] <eroomde> so i had a play
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[20:04] <gb73d> mixed polarisation is best for sats an bloons
[20:04] <gb73d> i think
[20:05] <eroomde> balloons are nearly always steady, LoS
[20:05] <gb73d> yeah but i get polarisation fading at max atlitute on my uhf ground plane
[20:06] <gb73d> think a mixed pol ant might help w the fading
[20:06] <gb73d> would also fit in the space in loft
[20:06] <eroomde> all fair enough
[20:07] <craag> We have a mixed polarisation antenna on the microwave websdr
[20:07] <gb73d> gonna use a N connector socket and enammelled copper wire
[20:07] <craag> It doesn't help as much as I'd thought.
[20:09] <eroomde> wouldnt mind making a helical yagi
[20:10] <craag> I think end-fire helixes look quite elegant
[20:10] <craag> Been wanting an excuse to build one for a while
[20:11] <eroomde> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Traqueur_acquisition.JPG/220px-Traqueur_acquisition.JPG
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[20:11] <eroomde> that'd make upu jelly
[20:11] <craag> heh yes
[20:11] <Upu> MY PRECIOUS
[20:13] <gb73d> now thats what i need in my loft !
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> You have the one Ring, no sorry, you have the one uBlox module
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> xD
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[21:23] <bertrik> what's the general prediction for tomorrow's launches?
[21:24] <bertrik> we have an open day at the hacker space tomorrow, would be a nice coincidence if we could do a live demo of our hab tracker setup
[21:25] <ibanezmatt13> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=61069ef6fd6bbe477f192fb5e6d91541daf8810a
[21:27] <bertrik> thanks
[21:28] <ibanezmatt13> np
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[21:35] <mikestir> sp2ipt: you were asking about filters? I have a book called RF Circuit Design, by Bowick. It has scalable tables for designing various filters. Maybe you can find a copy
[21:35] <mikestir> it's very accessible
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[21:37] Nick change: pnephos_ -> pnephos
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[21:39] <Upu> ping chrisstubbs
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[21:42] <zikos> live streaming now : http://www.leglu.com/
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[21:44] <Upu> bit off topic zikos
[21:44] <zikos> sorry
[21:45] <Upu> nps
[21:53] <aadamson> Upu, are you using the 3526L or just the regular?
[21:54] <Upu> hey aadamson
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[21:54] <Upu> 3526 on the step up board yes
[21:54] <aadamson> just the regular?
[21:54] <aadamson> they have an L version that is about 10-15% better on numbers
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[21:55] <Upu> oh hang on
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[21:55] <aadamson> my batt went to .65v at 2.04, then dropped to 1.5v until the batter reached .5v before the controller reset
[21:55] <aadamson> I'm using the L version
[21:55] <aadamson> they are pin/circuit compatible btw
[21:55] <aadamson> I believe
[21:56] <Upu> http://uk.farnell.com/linear-technology/ltc3526bedc-pbf/boost-0-85vmin-1-5-5-25v-0-5a-6dfn/dp/2115872?Ntt=2115872
[21:56] <Upu> ok interesting
[21:56] <Upu> I'll give that a try
[21:56] <Upu> more expensive
[21:58] <Upu> in answer to your question before
[21:58] <aadamson> yeah, but what are talking pennies... (I didn't even notice)
[21:58] <Upu> 28 hours from an AAA
[21:58] <Upu> at room temp
[21:58] <aadamson> on your controller?
[21:58] <Upu> I think it was about 26.5 in the air
[21:59] <aadamson> yeah I"m just about 20 hours on a fixed 100ma load
[21:59] <aadamson> so I"m right in the ballpark
[21:59] <Upu> so 70 hours on AA
[21:59] <Upu> 42mA
[21:59] <aadamson> and is that 28/70 on 100% duty cycle or not of all peripherals?
[21:59] <aadamson> radio one, etc
[21:59] <aadamson> on
[21:59] <Upu> constant TX
[21:59] <Upu> 1 sec cyclic
[22:00] <Upu> PIC ?
[22:00] <aadamson> ok... good, I should be right in the mix then... I think my current draw will be a little less than yours
[22:00] <aadamson> pic ? not sure what you are asking
[22:00] <Upu> you µC
[22:00] <Upu> your
[22:00] <Upu> microcontroller
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[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> AVR or Microchip PIC
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> the big question
[22:01] <Upu> who cares use whatever your happy with is the answer
[22:01] <mikestir> the answer to which is rapidly becoming ARM
[22:01] <aadamson> ah, it' s not built yet... missed ordering some parts from mouser, should be here tomorrow...https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/DSCN2438.JPG - usb/lipo/pv (bottom), ltc3526L middle, stm32l1, si4463, ti cdel913, max 7c - top board, unbuilt
[22:01] <Upu> ok
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> that is true Upu
[22:02] <Upu> I'm not finished with power saving yet
[22:02] <Upu> the GPS I can turn off entirely from the µC, its connected to the battery
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> but I noticed a nice thing: the current use of my new board with the ublox MAX-7 on it runs about 60 mA
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[22:02] <Upu> whats was the old one ?
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> the old board with the arduino mega and the ublox MAX-6 had around 150 mA
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> the sensors on it were about the same
[22:03] <aadamson> the advantage to the stm will be that I can individually turn off completely peripherals in the chip and it already sips power... but the micro really isn't the current challenge, it's everything else
[22:03] <Upu> the GPS is the biggest
[22:03] <aadamson> I added selects on both all the other other peripheral as well
[22:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:03] <aadamson> probably actually the radio, not the gps
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[22:03] <aadamson> at least against the 7c anyway
[22:04] <Upu> well once in power saving the radio yes
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> and I taught one of my team mates SMD soldering and she was able to solder on the passives quite well
[22:04] <Upu> My aim was to be able to cross the atlantic on one AA
[22:04] <Upu> which I think is easily doable now
[22:04] <Upu> just need the balloon to do it :)
[22:04] <aadamson> paste and hot air rework station and it will look like factory :)
[22:04] <craag> aadamson: Any big plans with the si transceiver?
[22:05] <aadamson> or in my case, just a toaster oven
[22:05] <Upu> I have one of those T962A's
[22:05] <aadamson> craag, I don't know yet, want to see how the cdcel913 works out
[22:05] <Upu> cheap and work well just let them cool down
[22:05] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:05] <aadamson> I did enable the RX circuit as well, but I think it has one issue
[22:06] <Reb-SM3ULC> Upu: no solar?
[22:06] <Lunar_Lander> hej Reb-SM3ULC
[22:06] <Upu> I have a solar board as well Reb-SM3ULC you can switch between step up and solar/lipo
[22:07] <aadamson> in theory with RX on the 4463, I guess there is no reason one couldn't *digi* in flight :)... I knew I should have added an spi ram :)
[22:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> Lunar_Lander: good evening!
[22:07] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
[22:07] <Upu> where are you located aadamson ?
[22:07] <Upu> I know states but where abouts ?
[22:08] <aadamson> I also plan to add a break out board for cutdown, I have extra pins run over to the headers so that I can remove the high current stuff from the rest of the board if wanted - upu - atlanta
[22:08] <Upu> ok cool not too far from Bill. Are you going to GPSL ?
[22:09] <aadamson> I couldn't get the 256k part, so this one will be built with the 128k part :)
[22:09] <aadamson> will run at 2.0v (1.8 internal) at 32mhz
[22:09] <aadamson> but can switch down to 1.5v and 4mhz if wanted
[22:11] <aadamson> I also for kicks built a sister setup up based on the tps61200, it's running it's test for low voltage/duration on alkaline at the moment... we'll see what that does by comparison
[22:11] <Reb-SM3ULC> Upu: any long range fqs for crossing the atlantic?
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[22:12] <qbit> hello!
[22:13] <qbit> anyone have experience with the trackuino?
[22:13] <qbit> i built one with the hx1 144.390-10 radio
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[22:13] <qbit> it's transmitting fine - but on the wrong frequency.. not sure hwo to fix it
[22:13] <qbit> 2 radios show it transmitting on 144.380
[22:14] <qbit> using this code: https://github.com/qbit/trackuino
[22:14] <amell> Rocketboy: What time are you planning to be at the elsworth field?
[22:19] <aadamson> qbit, the frequency is set by the hx1
[22:19] <aadamson> you can't change it that I know of
[22:19] <aadamson> I've built a couple and used that code, actually I modified, but removed all the sensors stuff etc and updated it to use the latest IDE
[22:20] <amell> rocketboy: never mind, just seen your latest email. hope to pop by just before 11.
[22:20] <aadamson> qbit, http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1488481 is my version from a prior life
[22:20] <qbit> aadamson: nice
[22:21] <aadamson> qbit, and my version of code (updated from the latest tracduino version)
[22:21] <aadamson> https://github.com/akadamson/APRS-Mini-Tracker/tree/experimental
[22:21] <qbit> weird that it's off by that much.. I have a second radio that i tested with the same results
[22:21] <aadamson> yea on that module, I can't see how it can be off unless it's off from the factory, there is no setting for that.
[22:21] <qbit> aadamson: that's awesome
[22:21] <aadamson> you running the right voltage for it, etc
[22:22] <qbit> 5v from usb
[22:22] <aadamson> hmm ok. shouldn't be a problem
[22:22] <qbit> barrel connector tests teh same
[22:22] <aadamson> I've got to run out but will be back on 30 mins or so...
[22:23] <qbit> k
[22:23] <qbit> have fun!
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[22:30] <Lunar_Lander> someone on here suggested I'd move to AVR Studio with the arduino plugin to be free of the restrictions posed by the IDE of arduino itself
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> as the lab PC has Linux, that won't work, but I read up on alternatives today. Arduino brought the toolchain with it, and if I got it right one could in theory program in a text editor
[22:31] <mikestir> arduino just uses avr-gcc
[22:31] <Lunar_Lander> yes
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> and then avrdude to push to the chip, right?
[22:32] <mikestir> you can ditch arduino entirely and write it all yourself
[22:32] <mikestir> yes
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[22:32] <mikestir> there is an avr plugin for eclipse, or you can just write a makefile
[22:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah, Eclipse is what I looked at today, that looks promising
[22:35] <mikestir> it is very good, if only it wasn't written in java
[22:35] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:36] <mikestir> but as long as you have half a terabyte of ram and you restart it once a day it's fine
[22:36] <chrisstubbs> pong upu an hour later :P
[22:37] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: I'm being mean - I use eclipse all the time, but it does get bogged down sometimes
[22:37] <mikestir> and never, ever let it try to index the linux kernel source
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> OK
[22:39] <Lunar_Lander> what happens then?
[22:39] <mikestir> "bad stuff"
[22:41] <mikestir> eventually the OOM killer will kick in if you're lucky, or the machine will just grind to a total halt
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[22:42] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[22:43] <Lunar_Lander> so how do I avoid that?
[22:43] <craag> Heh, I got told off for running a kernel build on the uni compute machine - in a samba share
[22:45] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: you won't do it by accident
[22:46] <Lunar_Lander> OK thanks
[22:49] <mikestir> craag: in a previous job I developed a full linux stack for a video SoC. I used to build it using distcc over 4 quad core xeon servers and it still took half an hour
[22:49] <mikestir> I used to get some stick if I did a full build during the day
[22:50] <craag> Ouch
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[22:53] <craag> I heard at one point this particular machine had a cron job that grepped the memory for the minecraft server jvm (and killed its process)
[22:53] <craag> After everyone suddenly realised that a 24-core xeon box with 48GB of RAM made a lag-free minecraft machine :D
[22:54] <mikestir> lol
[22:54] <sp2ipt> Puff the fractal dragon was written in C, he'd spawn himself across the net in mainframe memory... ;)
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:57] <mikestir> http://wiki.tcl.tk/18461
[22:59] <craag> that's great :D
[23:00] <sp2ipt> here's Puff - the true story ;) http://dandelion-patch.mit.edu/afs/sipb/user/marc/stuff.athena/humor/puff.fractal
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[23:01] <sp2ipt> hmmm... guess I knew the modified version
[23:01] <craag> sp2ipt: Googling around I found a few different versions
[23:02] <malgar> I see launches tomorrow. Latex or foil?
[23:02] <craag> malgar: All latex I believe
[23:03] <sp2ipt> craag: yes, me too - problably that's the original
[23:03] <craag> malgar: Ah, CHEAPO is a foil
[23:03] <craag> Float attempt too by the looks of it
[23:08] <Willdude123> craag, do you know whereabouts in Basingstoke the BATC conference/biagm might be?
[23:08] <Willdude123> Is it just because noel lives here? :)
[23:08] <craag> Willdude123: Yes, Everest Community College I think it's called?
[23:08] <craag> * " " Academy
[23:09] <craag> Willdude123: Pretty much, it's also quite central for the south, and apparently they get a good deal on the venue
[23:10] Action: Willdude123 goes hwaptup
[23:10] <Willdude123> Or whatever the sound you make where you pretend to spit on something
[23:10] <Willdude123> craag, I know it
[23:10] <Willdude123> Great premises
[23:10] <Willdude123> Crap school
[23:10] <craag> Hehe
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[23:11] <Willdude123> Unlike mine, which is crap school and crap premises
[23:12] <Willdude123> Anyway, should be worth a look
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[23:12] <Willdude123> I've not actually met Noel yet craag
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[23:13] <craag> Willdude123: He's a busy man!
[23:13] <sp2ipt> night all
[23:13] <craag> But yeah, you might as well come along for a day to the batc conf as you're so close.
[23:14] <craag> I warn you some of the talks will be a bit dry.
[23:14] <craag> And last time, I was the youngest there by a large number of years.
[23:14] <craag> But you can talk to some people, see some demos.
[23:14] <Willdude123> craag, Will perhaps go on my own
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[23:15] <Willdude123> Well, might have to carry a small blade if I do
[23:15] <craag> :|
[23:15] <Willdude123> My dad always locks the car when we go through the area. I think he's just trying to make a point
[23:15] <Willdude123> It's not a bad area.
[23:15] <Willdude123> It's just a bit
[23:15] <Willdude123> Crimey
[23:15] <Willdude123> Probably
[23:17] <craag> Could be an alternative venue for ukhas, chance of launching from outside!
[23:18] <craag> Doesn't come close to how nice greenwich was though.
[23:18] <Willdude123> craag, I would like to come to the UKHAS conference but I think it'd be unfair on my granddad
[23:19] <Willdude123> Tryna convince my parents to take me RSGB convention in sept
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[23:19] <craag> I wouldn't go to the rsgb conf
[23:19] <craag> I went last year
[23:19] <craag> it was very boring
[23:19] <Willdude123> Right
[23:19] <Willdude123> Any non-Gs there? :)
[23:19] <craag> Not that I found !
[23:19] <Willdude123> He falls asleep during a club lecture
[23:20] <Willdude123> *fell
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[23:20] <craag> I nearly did that at the RSGB conf
[23:20] <Willdude123> It sort of went into slightly superfluous detail of how defence communications were run in the 60s. Good talk in general
[23:20] <Willdude123> craag, I did want to take my US exam there too
[23:20] <Willdude123> But IDK
[23:21] <Willdude123> Can defo do batc
[23:21] <Willdude123> But UKHAS, I don't have an interested adult
[23:21] <craag> Yeah I'd say come along to the batc one jsut for an hour or two even, as it's so close.
[23:22] <craag> But the UKHAS one will have live streaming
[23:22] <craag> And the RSGB one isn't worth bothering with imo
[23:23] <craag> The talks ranged from disguised product marketing, to overly simplistic, to incorrect.
[23:24] <Willdude123> Incorrect?
[23:24] <Willdude123> Really?
[23:26] <g0pai_ian> Imagined grasp on technology . . .
[23:26] <craag> I think it was something about antennas, but I walked out.
[23:27] <fsphil> I nearly nodded off in a radio talk once. not because it was boring, but because I hadn't slept the night before. I felt kinda guilty :)
[23:27] <fsphil> I hope the speaker didn't notice
[23:27] <g0pai_ian> There is a lot to be learned on here, even for the old hands.
[23:27] <craag> The keynote talk by the JT65 guy I was looking forward to, but the most technical detail was 'the new modes uses more FEC'.
[23:28] <Willdude123> craag, did they notice?
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[23:28] <craag> Willdude123: A few other people did as well :)
[23:28] <g0pai_ian> A very satisfying talk by the sound of it . . .
[23:28] <Willdude123> craag, might give it a miss then
[23:29] <Willdude123> craag, were you a licensed ham before you went to soton?
[23:29] <craag> g0pai_ian: It was just all the facts on the (rather vague) website, on individual slides.
[23:30] <fsphil> the old death by powerpoint
[23:30] <craag> No actual radio details at all.
[23:30] <craag> Mostly screenshots of his program, and how to use it actually.
[23:30] <g0pai_ian> The previous version of that was death by viewfoil
[23:30] <Willdude123> I should go to one of these big ham radio conventions and go round asking old people for selfies
[23:30] <Willdude123> That would be fun
[23:30] <fsphil> ...
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[23:30] <g0pai_ian> That would make you cringd Willdude
[23:30] <Willdude123> Just to beat stereotypes
[23:31] <g0pai_ian> Could become valuable as some of them croak it in a few months time . . . :-)
[23:32] <craag> Willdude123: I got licensed when I was 15 at school. Did some HF operating from school and then moved out to the states. Took a VHF radio with me but had abuse thrown at me on the local repeater, so just lost interest until I happened to meet up with some other radio people in the pub (of course) in soton.
[23:32] <g0pai_ian> Amateur radio is wonderful and opens more doors than it closes. Some take it too seriously and see it as a political job.
[23:32] <Willdude123> craag, nice
[23:33] <Willdude123> craag, just seen the bit of CQ-TV
[23:33] <g0pai_ian> Often repeater users are a collection of cliques and anyone not in the group might be treated as sport
[23:34] <WillTablet> I find HF can be frustrating sometimes
[23:34] <craag> g0pai_ian: They'd never heard of an M0 callsign before, and so I got accused of being unlicensed.
[23:34] <craag> "We'll call the FCC and they'll deport you back to France"
[23:34] <WillTablet> craag: heh, but you prefixed it properly right?
[23:34] <craag> WillTablet: W7/M0DNY iirc
[23:35] <craag> W7/M0DNY/m most of the time
[23:35] <WillTablet> craag: how long were you out there?
[23:35] <craag> jsut a year and a half
[23:35] <WillTablet> Nice
[23:35] <g0pai_ian> A lot of G3/4 still mention BR68 in conversation about licencing, I teach M3/M6 to tell them to get up to date
[23:36] <WillTablet> HF can get a bit frustrating - probably something wrong with my aeria
[23:36] <WillTablet> Ooh VOA radiogram tomorrow
[23:36] <WillTablet> That's fun
[23:37] <craag> g0pai_ian: We've had people round here telling M3/M6s they're not allowed on VHF :P
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[23:38] <LazyLeopard> Heh! Quite a few folk who had their licences turned into a "licence for life" don't seem to have realised that the conditions within said licence require them to re-validate it at least every 5 years...
[23:39] <LazyLeopard> ...and are therefore operating un-licensed. ;)
[23:39] <g0pai_ian> I think that there is a lot of resistance to change and a few of us old ones that are really dinosaurs. I have known people that took an M3 Licence to get on HF before they scrapped the A/B licence and they used to call on VHF with their M3 call and get ignored. Used their G7 call and all was well
[23:39] <g0pai_ian> It certainly sorted out who the biggots were.
[23:40] <LazyLeopard> Yeah.
[23:40] <craag> Yes.. I mentioned this at the RSGB conf, saying they should have an ofcom booth with a laptop where people can put their callsign in and see how many years they've been operating unlicensed for :P
[23:41] <g0pai_ian> I do think that they should be noted and advised to get legal.
[23:41] <LazyLeopard> Yeah, Ofcom should have been doing that for a while.
[23:42] <g0pai_ian> Look at the technology PSK31 most progs decode at least 16 data streams. CW skimmer decodes about 32 Morse data streams on the fly. How do you monitor the whole HF band in Africa where there are few resources . . . ?
[23:43] <mfa298> In some ways making it 5 years was probably a bad move as people forget when they last updated the records.
[23:43] <g0pai_ian> Up convert the whole 30MHz to xxGHz and relay it to NSA/GCHQ
[23:43] <g0pai_ian> via satellite
[23:43] <SpeedEvil> g0pai_ian: 30MHz is only say 100 megabytes a second.
[23:43] <craag> Yeah look at the twente websdr
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> g0pai_ian: That's 10 hours on a 3T hard drive
[23:44] <g0pai_ian> It is a bit of a revelation after dabbling around on HF all ones life though. SDR is tops
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> g0pai_ian: So it's quite plausible to send a relatively small parcel every week
[23:45] <g0pai_ian> SpeedEvil: by balloon perhaps!
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> Add a nice GPS sync, and you can then even do radio location on HF sources
[23:45] <g0pai_ian> Lol
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> (assuming you have several global devices.
[23:45] <craag> Demodulating every single channel is a challenge
[23:45] <craag> BIG gpu farms :D
[23:46] <SpeedEvil> Well. It's 'only' 30000 1khz channels
[23:47] <g0pai_ian> I had a visit to a telemetry downstation on Ascension Island a long time ago (Devei's Ashpit) and someone on a visit the day before said not to ask about the strings that hung down from the ceiling.
[23:47] <WillTablet> g0pai_ian: with satellite internet, you're more likely to get the data across reliably to the NSA with Parcelforce
[23:48] <g0pai_ian> I went there and saw the strings and the answer was obvious. Light switches, saves a lot of wiring for centrised switches. I couldn't believe that he had asked, expecting a technical revelation.
[23:48] <g0pai_ian> WillTablet: I will tell DIRNSA if you say bad things like that :-) oops, he overheard me!
[23:48] <WillTablet> :-)
[23:49] <g0pai_ian> WillTablet: just remember as you wend your way through life, that people like trees die from the top down.
[23:49] <WillTablet> Heh
[23:50] <WillTablet> g0pai_ian: someone once said friends are like trees
[23:50] <WillTablet> They fall if you repeatedly hit them with an axe
[23:50] <g0pai_ian> I see the price and availability of so much high tech stuff today and wish that I was 25 again.
[23:51] <g0pai_ian> I guess that <pun> I fell for that one . . . </pun>
[23:51] <craag> g0pai_ian: I'm sure I'll be saying that also in time :)
[23:51] <g0pai_ian> craag: It'll take you just that little bit longer
[23:52] <craag> ?
[23:53] <WillTablet> craag: is it normal that at the moment I'm struggling to read almost all of cqtv and a large part of radcom?
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[23:53] <g0pai_ian> You are a lot nearer to 25 than I am
[23:54] <LazyLeopard> mfa298: Yeah, if they'd said "every year" maybe folk would have remembered. Then again, many of them were so used to getting reminders in the post...
[23:54] <craag> g0pai_ian: Yep, I think I can safely guess that's true ;)
[23:54] <craag> WillTablet: Yes, I still struggle with some bits of cqtv!
[23:55] <g0pai_ian> WillTablet: It is normal . . . I started reading Shortwave Magazine when I was 17 (a lot more technical than it ended up) and a lot of it sailed over my head. Slowly bits collected together and in my sleep I would realise that disparate facts had come together to aid my understanding.
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[23:56] <g0pai_ian> About 20 years later I became a little bit brighter :-)
[23:56] <WillTablet> I have a years worth of wireless world
[23:56] <WillTablet> From 1959
[23:56] <g0pai_ian> LazyLeopard: it doesn't matter that you forget your password of course, because within five years they have updated their system and lot them anyway
[23:57] <WillTablet> Don't understand any of the content
[23:57] <WillTablet> But the ads are fascinating
[23:57] <g0pai_ian> I used to skip all the difficult bits in WW
[23:57] <g0pai_ian> A bit like reading the pictures in a comic as a young kid
[23:58] <LazyLeopard> g0pai_ian: With a system you go to that infrequently, you're likely going through the password recovery process on every visit...
[23:58] <g0pai_ian> Gradually they began to make sense to me. Some of the more exotic bits are still a bit of a mystery, but I don't let that worry me too much.
[00:00] --- Sat Mar 29 2014