highaltitude.log.20140321

[00:01] <amell> 11dB loss at 400Mhz for W103
[00:02] <fsphil> we need mast head radios. forget loss
[00:02] <amell> an ultra long USB cable is a possible option
[00:02] <fsphil> ethernet would be better
[00:02] <amell> put the SDR dongle in the loft.
[00:03] <mfa298> from memory rg213 is about 2x the loss of w103, and rg58 is 2x loss of rg213
[00:03] <mikestir> amell: if you are only going to be receiving then put a habamp up the mast in an adaptable box and power it over the coax
[00:03] <amell> will definitely only be receiving
[00:03] <mikestir> then you can use rubbish coax
[00:03] <fsphil> a mast head amp would be perfect
[00:03] <g0pai_ian> Stick in a decent coax and a HabAmp.
[00:04] <fsphil> I'd have to stick a warning on the radio end not to TX through it
[00:04] <amell> how decent is decent?
[00:04] <mikestir> what's the gain of the habamp?
[00:04] <amell> 21dB
[00:05] <g0pai_ian> Aircell 7 decent. 2.7dB up on RG213 at 500MHz (over 100m)
[00:05] <amell> but mikestr says I can use rubbish coax if i use a habamp - who is right?
[00:05] <amell> mikestr in one corner and everyone else in the other corner.
[00:05] <mikestir> the LNA dictates the system noise figure
[00:06] <mikestir> so if your LNA gain is greater than the coax loss you're still ok
[00:06] <mfa298> if you have a pre-amp at the mast then you can get away with higher loss coax (within reason)
[00:06] <amell> more expense.
[00:07] <fsphil> I've 5m of RG213 coming down from my X-50
[00:07] <g0pai_ian> Once it's spent, the pain goes away. No£hing left to worry about!
[00:07] <fsphil> then the habamp
[00:07] <fsphil> then 5m of RG56
[00:07] <fsphil> it works well
[00:07] <fsphil> having the habamp in the attic does mean I can remove it if neccessary
[00:08] <fsphil> without having to climb the roof
[00:08] <amell> my antenna will be 25m from my IT room
[00:08] <mfa298> although consider if you want to use the antenna for anything else - if you get the habamp that pretty much limits you to 434MHz
[00:08] <amell> I did want to listen to aprs etc.
[00:08] <amell> oh, and ADS-B
[00:08] <fsphil> so use good cable from the antenna into the attic
[00:08] <fsphil> or whatever roof space you have
[00:09] <mfa298> you could get a more general lna
[00:09] <fsphil> I sometimes put the FCD right there in the attic
[00:09] <fsphil> and a usb cable to the room
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[00:09] <g0pai_ian> Sounds a reasonable compromise fsphil.
[00:09] <fsphil> I've my FT817 in the attic at the moment
[00:10] <fsphil> controlled by the PC through a USB extension
[00:10] <fsphil> right, 10 past midnight. needs some sleep
[00:10] <fsphil> g'nite all
[00:10] <amell> me too
[00:11] <g0pai_ian> Gnite. sleep tight.
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[00:11] <g0pai_ian> Dreaming about coax is not good for you!
[00:12] <mfa298> much better to dream about ladder line instead :p
[00:13] <gonzo_> unless it's the big arsed ft diam heliax
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[00:16] <g0pai_ian> Need a much bigger house for that!
[00:16] <g0pai_ian> Could build your tracker inside the cable!
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[00:19] <gonzo_> much bigger and you could live in it
[00:22] <gonzo_> saw a good little talk by kent britain, on a 6mtr beacon that they piggybacked on a band 1 tv tx. Many 100's of kw main tx, they put a snif of drive in along with the TX tx drive to get about 1w at the 6mtr band
[00:23] <gonzo_> but before the tx tx was comissioned they got to play with the antenna array. He had a pic of this 1ft heliax going down via a string of ever smaller adaptors, to an N type
[00:23] <SIbot> In real units: 1 ft = 0.30 m
[00:23] <gonzo_> the string must have been 18" long
[00:23] <gonzo_> ah, that folled sibot!
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[00:32] <g0pai_ian> I suppose that the alternative to a chain of adaptors would be a conical coaxial section - I would hate to think of the price of that . . . !
[00:33] <g0pai_ian> amell will get his Foundation licence, forget about his HabAmp and blow it up!
[00:35] <amell> I heard that
[00:36] <DL7AD> does anybody know how to transmit binary files on a debian system by uart?
[00:38] <g0pai_ian> :) Had a mate that returned two auto antenna tuners to MFJ. burned contacts . . . I think that he missed a trick and was changing bands etc. at power giving them a hard time . . . unwittingly of course.
[00:39] <gonzo_> we've all fried lna's
[00:40] <LeoBodnar> X-modem
[00:40] <g0pai_ian> DLUAD: UUencode?
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[00:46] <DL7AD> okay.... will try xmodem first ^^
[00:49] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: ehm.... well... he asks me for somewhat i dont understand
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[01:30] <g0pai_ian> Binary file XXX, decode filename YYY, key phrase RABBIT
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[01:39] <g0pai_ian> uuencode XXX YYY > myoutfile
[01:39] <g0pai_ian> uudecode XXX myoutfile
[01:39] <g0pai_ian> resulting decode is in file XXX
[01:40] <g0pai_ian> DL7AD: did you copy that (Linux of course)
[01:41] <g0pai_ian> http://linux.101hacks.com/unix/uuencode/
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[01:45] <DL7AD> g0pai_ian: not yet.
[01:45] <DL7AD> g0pai_ian: but thx. i will try it "tomorrow". going to bed now ;) gn
[01:46] <DL7AD> x-f: *thumbs up* receives B-41
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[01:49] <g0pai_ian> Gnite
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[02:43] <g0pai_ian> I notice that the spacenear.us seems to have no updates from just over half way across the Latvian landmass before the Gulf of Riga. I guess this is because APRS is being used? and APRS updates to Spacenear.us are managed manually?
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[05:22] <x-f> g0pai_ian, it stopped transmitting, i can't find the signal anymore
[05:24] <x-f> well, that's an answer to a different question actually
[05:31] <Reb-SM3ULC> morrn
[05:31] <Reb-SM3ULC> aprs + russia?
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[05:51] <x-f> morning
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[06:29] <DL7AD> good morning
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[06:32] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[06:34] <LeoBodnar_> Morning *
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[07:07] <DL7AD> got new message from B-41 :)
[07:08] <DL7AD> morn LeoBodnar
[07:13] <LeoBodnar_> Morn Sven
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[07:41] <amell> nice sunny day in russia according to b-41
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[08:00] <DL7AD> g0pai_ian: morning. uuencode did work. but i did not get a suitable solution for my whole problem yet.
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[08:12] <dg9bfc_sigi> hello to all
[08:12] <UpuWork> morning
[08:12] <x-f> morning
[08:14] <dg9bfc_sigi> just had my 2nd cup :-) ... need more ...seems as b41 is travelling towards moscow (and further maybe)
[08:15] <daveake> Another Crimean invasion maybe
[08:16] <dg9bfc_sigi> heading towards 3rd ww??? ... i hope not!!
[08:16] <eroomde> yeah it looks on for a crimea dash
[08:16] <dg9bfc_sigi> remembers me to the song of "nena" ... 99 red balloons ... :-)
[08:17] <eroomde> could you call the strait of kerch: crimea river?
[08:17] <LeoBodnar> can we book her for UKHAS 2014 conf?
[08:18] <dg9bfc_sigi> to leobodnar: ... sure you can book nena for a concert (if you have the $$$$)
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[08:22] <tjanos_hg5apz> good morning
[08:22] <dg9bfc_sigi> morning
[08:22] <gonzo_> would 99 red balloons, require a notam?
[08:23] <Darkside> on and on and on and on
[08:23] <daveake> I'd like to see DM's face when that application lands
[08:23] <tjanos_hg5apz> I found this blog: 3 Balloons in Malawi http://malawiballoons.tumblr.com/ Nice place for ballooning...
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[08:24] <dg9bfc_sigi> hmmmm ... you "should" ....cause you could get in trouble with aviation safety agency if not
[08:24] <tjanos_hg5apz> and this map, based on iridium data: http://activate.eurotalk.com/malawiBalloon/
[08:25] <dg9bfc_sigi> up up and away ... my beautiful ...my beautiful .....baloooooooonn ....
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[08:30] <DL7AD> dg9bfc_sigi: do you have one cup for me? ^^
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[08:34] <dg9bfc_sigi> here the coffee ... c(_)
[08:35] <fsphil> nasty stuff
[08:35] <fsphil> I suspect people who drink it have no sense of smell :)
[08:35] <dg9bfc_sigi> anone else?? (as i am planning to go to the kitchen anyway)
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[08:35] <gonzo_> As a pessimist, I'd say that cup was empty
[08:36] <dg9bfc_sigi> coffee ... that beautiful nixe elixir that make us live before noon :-)
[08:36] <gonzo_> (Just listened to the song. The 99 balloons were let go, one by one. And as they were brought by a little boy, they would probably be within the 2mtrs limit.)
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[08:37] <gonzo_> Coffee is for nations who can't make a propper cup of tea
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[08:38] <dg9bfc_sigi> i also drink tea ... but not at the morning
[08:39] <dg9bfc_sigi> ever heard of "ost-friesen-tea" ... with "kluntje" and "wulkje"???
[08:39] <gonzo_> I was looking on ebay for a tea cosy and found a nice knotted one. The first thing my daughter did when it arrived was put it on her head. So either madness is indeed heredatory, or my many years of training have paid off
[08:39] <gonzo_> knitted
[08:40] <daveake> difficult to tell :)
[08:41] <gonzo_> (I did get first wear, before she came down)
[08:43] <gonzo_> I'm sure that was a tip of the day message on my linux box, 'never trust anyone who, if left in a room with a tea cosy, does not at some point try it on their head'
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[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> It's looking good LeoBodnar :)
[08:48] <LeoBodnar> i know, it always does. until the last second
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[08:50] <fsphil> good optimism there :)
[08:51] <fsphil> APJHAB appears to be a live flight
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[08:54] <daveake> One that had a gps altitude issue
[08:54] <ibanezmatt13> yup
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> better go do some physics, bbl
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[08:59] <fsphil> are we not all doing physics all the time anyway
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[09:01] <mfa298> well we're all in motion
[09:01] Action: mfa298 queues up the monty python track
[09:02] <fsphil> perfect
[09:02] <mfa298> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY
[09:03] <gonzo_> I can think of a few that would fit, with varying pervertednes!
[09:03] <gonzo_> (but unfortunatly, 99 red balloons looks like it's not stuck in my head for the duration)
[09:03] <gonzo_> got
[09:04] <LeoBodnar> she does not age!
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[09:07] <daveake> mfa298 updated version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NCYTDulAyM
[09:09] <cm13g09> gonzo_: lol
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[09:24] <nats`> oky I hate you all !
[09:25] <nats`> I have 99 luft balloon in my head
[09:25] <nats`> you deserve to die ! :D
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[09:25] <fsphil> it's not a bad song
[09:25] <nats`> not bad but it stick like superglue
[09:26] <nats`> + I think my colleagues will hate you too :D
[09:26] <fsphil> hah
[09:27] <nats`> anyway how ar eyou fsphil ? :)
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[09:28] <gonzo_> earworms by IRC. A very geeky happenin
[09:28] <cm13g09> nats`: it's OK, you're not the only one :P
[09:29] <nats`> maybe we are the Zero patient of a worldwide contamination :D
[09:29] <nats`> symptom ? singing all the time and launching balloon everywhere
[09:35] <dg9bfc_sigi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwNCxjxSqrE
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[09:39] <amell_> surprisingly warm 2.8C at 8Km near moscow.
[09:40] <amell_> Im really surprised its that warm.
[09:40] <amell_> I think it is much more likely that it is radiant heating from the sun.
[09:41] <eroomde> remember that a lot of habs are measuring the temperature of their temperature sensor
[09:41] <eroomde> not necessarily the temperature of the air
[09:41] <amell_> polystyrene box heating up inside
[09:41] <amell_> yes
[09:41] <LeoBodnar> this is PCB temperature, not outside air
[09:42] <LeoBodnar> it's much more useful for battery performance analysis
[09:42] <LeoBodnar> OAT is probably -40C
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[09:51] <Laurenceb> the B-41 battery works so well its insane
[09:51] <Laurenceb> ~3.9v overnight at -43C
[09:53] <Laurenceb> make that -45C intermittently
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> heh
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[09:57] <Laurenceb> and it recharges in only 6 hours
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[10:09] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: that the lipo has 4.2v does not mean its fully charged. if the lipo is at -40C is internal resistance is that high, the voltage will rise to 4.2v automatically. and even its 4.2v there could be still current, charging the lipo.
[10:10] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:11] <Laurenceb> only its ~0C atm
[10:12] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: yep so almost charged
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[10:20] <fiftydollarsat> I thought that you had to be really carefull about charging to 'full' voltage at such low temperatures.
[10:20] <fiftydollarsat> When the Lipo warms up, wont its terminal voltage rise ?
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[10:22] <WillDWork> what lipo is B-41 using?
[10:22] <Laurenceb> who cares
[10:22] <Laurenceb> its not like hundreds of cycles are needed here
[10:23] <eroomde> indeed, it's not a cubesat, but equally lipos can get quite upset quite quickly
[10:23] <eroomde> we definitely got through them every few flights of our robotic blimp
[10:24] <Laurenceb> https://i.4cdn.org/b/src/1395387453580.gif
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[10:25] <LeoBodnar> need
[10:25] <LeoBodnar> s/need/want/
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> or they are planes duh, bad taste
[10:27] <Laurenceb> prediction heading into iran, interesting
[10:28] <fiftydollarsat> If overcharged is there not a fire risk when the cells warm up ?
[10:29] <Laurenceb> well ~0C is the max temperature
[10:29] <eroomde> if mega concerned you could dump some power overboard into a resistor
[10:30] <eroomde> to warm the payload up
[10:31] <nats`> eroomde my idea was to heat a track in the internal layers of the pcb
[10:31] <nats`> on layer 3 if rf part are on layer 1
[10:31] <eroomde> sure, that'd spread the heat around nicely
[10:32] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/118833_trj001.gif
[10:32] <Laurenceb> looks like it gets caught up over northern iran/caspian sea
[10:34] <Laurenceb> hehe the is APRS at Baghlan air base
[10:35] <Reb-SM3ULC> cool dance
[10:35] <eroomde> so cirumnavigation habs will be quite sensitive to altitude
[10:35] <eroomde> maybe they need ballonets for an element of alt control
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[10:35] <Laurenceb> if you launch at the right time you can circumnavitage in 6 days or so
[10:36] <Laurenceb> across a range of altitudes.. according to hysplit
[10:36] <Laurenceb> but im not sure how reliable that would be
[10:36] <Reb-SM3ULC> some long range alternative for positioning would be nice
[10:36] <Laurenceb> yeah
[10:37] <Laurenceb> i looked at ARGOS but its a pita to get an account
[10:37] <Laurenceb> it does seem very well suited
[10:37] <Reb-SM3ULC> url?
[10:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-41_20140318/B-41_201403211038.jpg
[10:38] <Reb-SM3ULC> neat
[10:38] <Laurenceb> http://www.argos-system.org/
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[10:40] <Reb-SM3ULC> aa, cool
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[10:40] <Reb-SM3ULC> jsut thought running something on some hf fq like SP9UOB have done
[10:40] <Laurenceb> it might pick up some APRS from Azerbaijan over the caspian if it follows that loop
[10:41] <Reb-SM3ULC> WSPR has the network.. but not so fun to transmit for such a long time... 2m...
[10:41] <Reb-SM3ULC> but maybe once every 1-2 hour... ?
[10:44] <Laurenceb> lots of APRS over china
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[10:47] <Reb-SM3ULC> over.. ;) APRS by the sea
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[10:51] <LeoBodnar> 434MHz is military use only in China
[10:53] <Laurenceb> oh
[10:53] <Laurenceb> but it can still use 2m?
[10:53] <LeoBodnar> yes but on different APRS freq
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[10:54] <LeoBodnar> it is supposed to shut down Contestia and switch to another 2m frequency over China
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> </slightly tested>
[10:55] <Laurenceb> i see
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> but it's a long way
[10:55] <fsphil> a good chunk of china is empty
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> if it gets out of that vortex
[10:55] <Laurenceb> maybe we will get something from Baghram/Azerbaijan
[10:57] <LeoBodnar> CCW vortexes don't usually end up well for foil floaters
[10:57] <Laurenceb> interesting
[10:57] <Laurenceb> bbl
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[11:40] <Hade_> Wow cannot believe the distance.
[11:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Wait and see where it goes next ! http://ready.arl.noaa.gov//hypub/arlTraj.swf?client=gme-noaa&channel=OAR.ARL.HQ.HYSPLIT&dir=/hypubout/HYSPLITtraj_118816&data=/hysplit_metadata&ext=html
[11:43] <ibanezmatt13> wow
[11:45] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
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[11:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-41_20140318/index.php?ind=1
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[11:52] <tweetBot> @G8DHE: HAB Update:
[11:52] <tweetBot> B-41 currently passing Moscow, after that where next ? http://t.co/FGlvncR9BU
[11:52] <tweetBot> #ukhas #hab #hamr
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[11:59] <fsphil> more russia
[11:59] <fsphil> it's a somewhat big country
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[12:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> It is indeed of mainly nothing interesting :)
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[12:10] <daveake> By the time B-41 gets to the edge of the country, Russia will probably have grown a bit
[12:11] <craag> Does that mean Leo will have to hotpatch his geofencing?
[12:11] <daveake> good thinking :)
[12:12] <fsphil> if the balloon disappears for a bit over moscow we can assume the friendly locals have done it for us
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[12:20] <cm13g09> craag: ping
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[12:25] <amell_> wondering if these picos appear on radar? assuming b41 is a pico
[12:26] <daveake> Not as much as, say, a 777
[12:26] <daveake> oh.........
[12:26] <amell_> d'oh
[12:27] <fsphil> it is weird that some balloons have had better tracking that something carrying over 200 people
[12:27] <cm13g09> fsphil: local radio station down here.....
[12:27] <cm13g09> well they have something to say about that
[12:28] <daveake> Perhaps someone on board was using an 808 camera
[12:28] <fsphil> ah
[12:28] <amell_> need a leobodnar aircraft locator balloon. automatically inflates and releases in the event of a crash
[12:28] <cm13g09> "In this day and age when we can track iPhones precisely, how the hell do you lose an aircraft?"
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[12:29] <LeoBodnar> i often can't find my iPhone in my flat leave alone in the middle of the ocean
[12:29] <fsphil> a couple of independent satellite gps trackers should do it
[12:29] <fsphil> that doubles as a waterproof floating buoy
[12:30] <amell_> the plane does have a epirb. I don't know why it wasn't released.
[12:30] <fsphil> ah it already has something like this
[12:30] Nick change: UpuWork -> Upuski
[12:30] Nick change: Upuski -> UpuWork
[12:31] <amell_> every liferaft in the plane has an epirb. I believe theres also one at the top rear in front of the tail fin.
[12:32] <fsphil> do they transmit all the time?
[12:32] <LeoBodnar> no
[12:32] <amell_> they are triggered by water.
[12:32] <fsphil> if they have to be activated then there might not have been anyone to do it
[12:32] <fsphil> ah
[12:32] <amell_> ship epirbs are triggered by water contact. no idea about planes.
[12:32] <LeoBodnar> they might not have survived massive impact forces
[12:33] <amell_> or an intense fire...
[12:33] <gonzo_> the installed ones on light a/c are sometimes triggered on impact
[12:33] <amell_> its all very strange.
[12:34] <amell_> they broadcast on 406Mhz.
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> ELTs are usually triggered by impact
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> not sure about water
[12:34] <amell_> http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtEpirb for additional reading.
[12:35] <Laurenceb__> i was just travelling on a bus with the SAS
[12:35] <Laurenceb__> pretty funny
[12:35] <amell_> i have a personal epirb, in case i fall off a boat.
[12:35] <Laurenceb__> their close protection range rover had broken down
[12:36] <gonzo_> so was the bus ordered to tail the VIP car then?
[12:37] <Laurenceb__> nope
[12:37] <LeoBodnar> did you feel safe?
[12:37] <Laurenceb__> heh
[12:37] <Laurenceb__> i didnt ask what was in their rucksacks
[12:37] <Laurenceb__> ive seen them carrying small anti aircraft missiles in them before
[12:37] <Laurenceb__> they did seem to have long hexagonal thingies...
[12:39] <Laurenceb__> they didnt seem to know how to catch a bus
[12:39] <Laurenceb__> one of them gave some sort of co-ordinate as their "RV point"
[12:40] <Laurenceb__> and the other corrected him before realising he didnt actually know where they were going
[12:40] <amell_> how do you know they were SAS and not russian terrorists?
[12:41] <Laurenceb__> they said...
[12:41] <Laurenceb__> and other explanations seemed unlikely
[12:41] <gonzo_> welsh sepratists?
[12:41] <fsphil> hah
[12:41] <Laurenceb__> turned out the bus driver was ex SAS, and had the tattoos to prove it
[12:41] <Laurenceb__> lol
[12:42] <amell_> Are you sure you should have been on this bus...
[12:42] <Laurenceb__> lol
[12:42] <gonzo_> some secret mission
[12:42] <fsphil> it is starting to sound like the plot to a bad movie
[12:42] <gonzo_> sounds more like something from 'the avengers'
[12:42] <Laurenceb__> yeah it was pretty funny
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> watch out Laurenceb__ , you probably know too much now
[12:42] <Laurenceb__> they werent exactly scary
[12:42] <Laurenceb__> more senile than scary
[12:42] <gonzo_> (the 60's tv servies, not the film)
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> cuddly SAS?
[12:43] <Laurenceb__> "we cant request the bus drives to our RV point?!"
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[12:44] <Laurenceb__> i think they had been in the army way too long
[12:45] <gonzo_> my job is related to the bus industry. Some services have probelms where pensioners get on a circular route and sit there all day with flashs/sandwiches etc. using it like at day in ctr
[12:46] <gonzo_> wonder if that's the same thing
[12:46] <LeoBodnar> did they communicate with funny hand gestures?
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[12:47] <fsphil> aww, proto-pic order didn't come in a funky plastic box
[12:47] <gonzo_> if they were that old, it would be all muttered refeences under the breath (les daweson style)
[12:48] <fsphil> just a standard jiffy bag
[12:58] <g0pai_ian> I got the box and two LiPower boards . . . :)
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[13:05] <Laurenceb__> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=12&call=a%2FSP5RZP-11&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[13:06] <Laurenceb__> very higfh
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[13:08] <SgtBurned> Hey guys
[13:09] <Laurenceb__> 35km burst
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> what's up with the track?
[13:10] <Laurenceb__> it seems to have gone mad
[13:11] <Laurenceb__> what do all the different APRS symbols mean? is there a key somewhere?
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> they are arbitrary mostly (i.e. you define what you want to show)
[13:12] <Laurenceb__> oh
[13:14] <LeoBodnar> intended use: http://wa8lmf.net/miscinfo/APRS_Symbol_Chart_Rev-H.pdf
[13:14] <Laurenceb__> ah
[13:15] <Laurenceb__> lol snowmobiles and wheelchairs
[13:16] <Laurenceb__> Girl Scout
[13:16] <Laurenceb__> what the heck
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[13:56] <amell_> looks like b41 will miss ukraine. more like a pass through iran and then up into kazakstan
[13:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> OT anybody bought a SIM card recently many are advertised with ITU at the end trying to find meaning ?
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[14:07] <eroomde> amell_: where you the ukra member i was talking to the other week?
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> http://s2.b3ta.com/host/creative/90662/1395408190/samadndavemetal.jpg
[14:09] <Laurenceb__> lolz
[14:14] <amell_> eroomde: Indeed I am
[14:15] <amell_> New UKRA challenge - shoot down one of leos balloons
[14:16] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/122224_trj001.gif
[14:17] <Laurenceb__> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/122235_trj001.gif
[14:17] <Laurenceb__> no rain
[14:17] <amell_> Laurenceb_: I like the look of the red track.
[14:18] <Laurenceb__> blue seems more likely
[14:18] <Laurenceb__> 8200m
[14:18] <amell_> the blue track we are likely to lose contact.
[14:18] <eroomde> amell_: cool
[14:18] <amell_> wonder if these foil balloons leach helium through the skin.
[14:18] <eroomde> was it about tracking signals at bigrange?
[14:19] <amell_> eroomde: yes it was.
[14:19] <amell_> big thread on ukra forum
[14:20] <amell_> best idea so far is SPOT3 satellite GPS
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> what is UKRA, i want to see it
[14:20] <amell_> www.ukra.org.uk
[14:20] <amell_> members only thread though.
[14:20] <amell_> let me see if i can print it to a pdf.
[14:20] <eroomde> it just came back to us
[14:21] <Laurenceb__> if there is aprs over Georgia, we might see B-41 for the next 2 days
[14:21] <eroomde> rick newlands contacted someone who makes aerial surveillance platforms, they contacted us
[14:21] <LeoBodnar> oh, the ones we have seen don't use *any* trackers
[14:21] <amell_> eroomde: aha. rick was on the thread
[14:21] <eroomde> but yes i am interested, given we lost a stage to the big range
[14:22] <eroomde> and it's so mountainous up there that it could be anywhere within about 5km radius, and without being ontop of it you've no chance for anything that needs LoS
[14:23] <amell_> eroomde: you have a big plan?
[14:24] <eroomde> amell_: a couple of ideas
[14:24] <eroomde> my solution is black rock instead
[14:24] <amell_> dear do getting there!
[14:24] <Laurenceb__> lots of mountains for antenna mounting
[14:24] <eroomde> and my other solution involves wearing my non-hobby hat and using powers/freqs for which you need a permit
[14:24] <eroomde> but for amateur stuff, i've a couple of ideas
[14:24] <amell_> experimental permit?
[14:25] <eroomde> yeah
[14:25] <amell_> My suggestion was a aprs node on a balloon or kite.
[14:25] <amell_> with permit to do airborne aprs.
[14:25] <eroomde> 2m was still getting twatted up there by the mountains
[14:25] <eroomde> even 5W 2m was gone within about 1.5-2km range unless it was summit-to-summit
[14:26] <eroomde> it's seriously rugged up there
[14:26] <amell_> bad place for rockets basically.
[14:26] <eroomde> yeah
[14:26] <eroomde> well, beautiful
[14:26] <eroomde> stunning
[14:26] <eroomde> wonderful
[14:26] <eroomde> delicious food from the hunting lodges
[14:26] <eroomde> etc etc etc
[14:26] <eroomde> but, not easy recovery
[14:26] <amell_> another option is a few hydrogen bombs to flatten it all out first.
[14:26] <eroomde> and you had to be very self sufficient
[14:27] <gonzo_> He availability will be no prob though. Containing it could be a challenge
[14:27] <eroomde> but it wasn't so bad after a hasrd days out in the ranges coming home to vennison haunch and a few whiskeys by the fire
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[14:29] <eroomde> amell_: i'd be interesting to read that thread
[14:29] <eroomde> my ukra membership is long lapsed
[14:30] <eroomde> interested*
[14:30] <amell_> got an email addy you can pm?
[14:30] <amell_> i can't share a private forum to everyone
[14:30] <eroomde> done
[14:30] <eroomde> i gave up a bit with it when there were lots of people who knew quite a lot less than daniel jubb about rocket engines accusing daniel jubb of knowing nothing about rocket engines
[14:32] <amell_> sent
[14:32] <eroomde> ta
[14:32] <amell_> 12 page discussion :)(
[14:33] <eroomde> nice
[14:34] <amell_> helikite aerostats are wacky looking
[14:35] <eroomde> those are the things, yep
[14:35] <eroomde> they're very good
[14:35] <eroomde> stable as a rock
[14:35] <amell_> tbh, you might as well get a 3G base station up there, and everyone benefits.
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[14:36] <amell_> with microwave backhaul to nearest phone line
[14:36] <eroomde> which is about 20 miles away
[14:36] <eroomde> that's not an easy thing to do
[14:36] <eroomde> oh nigel woodcock!
[14:37] <eroomde> yes, he was helpful
[14:37] <Laurenceb__> http://routerboard.com/RBSXT
[14:39] <eroomde> i think really the problem you need to solve is getting a position once it's landed
[14:39] <eroomde> as it'll take you an hour or two to trek close enough to it
[14:39] <eroomde> good god
[14:39] <Laurenceb__> wtf video
[14:39] <eroomde> john bonsor is still the same
[14:39] <Laurenceb__> thats going to let a ton of rain in
[14:40] <amell_> lol. wordy
[14:41] <eroomde> i remember in the lead up
[14:41] <eroomde> 'hi john, i was wondering if the organizers would be providing a launch tower and if so, what are the specs? thanks, ed'
[14:43] <eroomde> 'Dear Ed, thank you very much (indeed!) for (as i note below, and again here) the communication (which I, indeed, noted previously and will do so, again, below) which is so very import to the successful running of a rocketry event, or indeed any event, or specifically the big range event, which reminds me of a time in 1907 when i first joined the paisely rocket society...'
[14:43] <eroomde> [i pass out at this point]
[14:43] <Laurenceb__> what
[14:43] <Laurenceb__> is that guy trolling
[14:44] <amell_> no. thats how he is
[14:44] <eroomde> very nice guy, i must stress
[14:44] <amell_> concise is not a word he knows
[14:45] <gonzo_> and a fobia of full stops
[14:45] <eroomde> that wasn't a quote, i was making it up
[14:46] <eroomde> but it really is like that
[14:46] <eroomde> and i still don't know if anyone actually turned up to big range 2013
[14:51] <eroomde> i see chris eilbeck pointed out that the helikites people know flan
[14:51] <eroomde> (i work with him)
[14:52] <amell_> who is flan?
[14:56] <Laurenceb__> http://www.meh.ro/original/2010_01/meh.ro1364.jpg
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[15:06] <Laurenceb__> i need an accurate load cell/ load cell type device with >10hz output
[15:06] <Laurenceb__> any ideas?
[15:07] <eroomde> amell: James Macfarlane
[15:07] <eroomde> ->macflan
[15:07] <eroomde> ->flan
[15:07] <Laurenceb__> i was thinking of usb digital balance
[15:07] <Laurenceb__> but they are mostly poor update rate
[15:08] <eroomde> Laurenceb__: where in the stack are you operating
[15:08] <eroomde> so to speak
[15:08] <eroomde> do you want the sensor or do you want a fully integrated windows app that gives you a csv file?
[15:08] <eroomde> because really any load cell ever will have kHz of bandwidth
[15:09] <LeoBodnar> should have asked me Laurenceb__
[15:10] <LeoBodnar> do you need strain gauge or load cell?
[15:10] <Laurenceb__> im not sure
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[15:10] <Laurenceb__> its a stupid management failure
[15:11] <LeoBodnar> http://www.omega.co.uk/shop/psc.html
[15:11] <Laurenceb__> basically they want to measure force under a blood pressure cuff
[15:11] <Laurenceb__> i have tried to explain why this is stupid
[15:11] <Laurenceb__> but im left to pick up the pieces
[15:11] <LeoBodnar> force = P * S
[15:11] <Laurenceb__> exactly
[15:12] <LeoBodnar> but seriously, Omega has it all
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> i was planning on G clamp + electronic scales
[15:12] <Laurenceb__> but they want graphs of dynamic performance
[15:13] <Laurenceb__> ok ill check out omega
[15:13] <Laurenceb__> "We're sorry...
[15:13] <Laurenceb__> ... but your computer or network may be sending automated queries. To protect our users, we can't process your request right now."
[15:13] <Laurenceb__> wtf google
[15:13] <Laurenceb__> im banned from google
[15:16] <eroomde> i do agree with Leo - measureing the pressure in the cuff is a bit nice than g-clamping scales to your arm
[15:16] <eroomde> nicer*
[15:16] <Laurenceb__> welcome to my world
[15:16] <Laurenceb__> im already measuring pressure nicely
[15:17] <Laurenceb__> maybe i wont do anything and let management senility take care of things
[15:22] <Laurenceb__> ill grab this
[15:22] <Laurenceb__> http://www.omega.com/Green/pdf/wsb-8000.pdf
[15:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh I fancy being out with APJHAB all of a sudden they aren't walking on water! http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/13672754.jpg
[15:27] <mfa298> 30 minute float at 12km, that looks suspiciously like a well known bug
[15:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Supply of better GPS units is probably a bit of a problem !
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[15:31] <DL7AD> good afternoon
[15:32] <DL7AD> fsphil: got ssdv to work :) thx wrote everything in python
[15:35] <SgtBurned> ssdv?
[15:36] <SgtBurned> If you need python work, I am availible for work next week ( if all goes to plan and I get a flat... )
[15:38] <DL7AD> SgtBurned: hehe actually no
[15:38] <DL7AD> im preparing a raspberry to do ssdv
[15:39] Action: cm13g09 has a server at work that we don't use any more.... it's called Basil.... and more entertainingly, it's Fawlty..... (BA-DUM-TISH!)
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[15:41] <SgtBurned> Nice ;D Where are you located?
[15:42] Action: SgtBurned Slowly claps cm13g09
[15:42] <DL7AD> SgtBurned: in wildau :P
[15:42] <SgtBurned> Is your company one of the few that calls their server nodes depending on spices?
[15:42] <SgtBurned> DL7AD: ;) Okay. Already done it here in the East Midlands ( UK ). Got a nice setup too
[15:43] <SgtBurned> Don't suppose you know how to transfer an Email with python? ( backup incase it falls in a City and we cant get a lock... )
[15:44] <DL7AD> well.... it doesnt have an internet connection..
[15:44] <mfa298> if you think there's a chance your payload is going to fall in a city then that might be a time to re-consider launching
[15:45] <SgtBurned> Well it's not going to land in a city. Just thinking of crap I can put on it
[15:45] <daveake> +1zillion
[15:45] <SgtBurned> Plus the email thing is going to be used for something else too. Just out of chance you have done python work with emails.
[15:46] <DL7AD> not yet. wasnt necessary at all my launches
[15:46] <SgtBurned> Okay ;)
[15:46] <SgtBurned> What sort of data you sending back?
[15:47] <DL7AD> ssdv ;) digital images
[15:47] <DL7AD> http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[15:47] <SgtBurned> xD Nice.
[15:48] <DL7AD> and the position of course
[15:48] <mfa298> email can be an interesting thing to do from a programming language. Getting something that isn't detected as spam is half the challenge
[15:48] <SgtBurned> reading in binary base64 encoding and then sending back?
[15:48] <SgtBurned> mfa298: Not too bothered about spam detection. It will be whitelisted email.
[15:49] <SgtBurned> From will be my Work Email and To will be my personal email
[15:50] <mfa298> do you manage the servers for your personal email yourself or is it the likes of gmail/yahoo/hotmail/<ISP>
[15:50] <fsphil> DL7AD: looking good!
[15:50] <fsphil> nice scope
[15:50] <SgtBurned> Well outitgoes.com handles the emails.
[15:50] <mfa298> as a lot of providers will just bin anything that looks spam like before even looking at whitelists.
[15:51] <DL7AD> fsphil: it was exactly that error you told me ;)
[15:51] <mfa298> also if you send from a work email but not via the work servers that can give a big spam score if they're using anything like spf/dkim etc.
[15:51] <SgtBurned> DL7AD: Speed isn't too bad! What speed is on your end?
[15:51] <mfa298> and if they don't have spf records then they're not doign a good job.
[15:51] <DL7AD> SgtBurned: 600 baud currently
[15:52] <SgtBurned> Not too shabby. We're transmitting at 50 baud. No idea why, just the spec we were given. Put that with the 9 sensor values being sent with time, position etc.
[15:54] <mfa298> for basic telemetry 50baud rtty is good (and standard for HABs )ssdv needs a higher baud due to the amount of data to send
[15:54] <SgtBurned> True.
[15:54] <fsphil> you *could* do images over 50 baud
[15:54] <fsphil> well, maybe image
[15:54] <SgtBurned> But for the data string it takes a few seconds ( 5 / 10 seconds ) for it all to reach here.
[15:55] <SgtBurned> fsphil: at 50 baud I might as well just draw the thing myself pixel by pixel
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[15:55] <DL7AD> rofl :D
[15:55] <fsphil> it would take 51 seconds to transmit a single packet at 50 baud
[15:55] <SgtBurned> Ouch
[15:55] <SgtBurned> So like 16x16 sprite is good for a few seconds xD
[15:56] <mfa298> for 50 baud images it might be better to do ascii art.
[15:56] <DL7AD> fsphil: do you use the picam too?
[15:56] <fsphil> mfa298: totally
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[15:56] <fsphil> DL7AD: yea. on my previous avr flights I used a serial camera
[15:56] <SgtBurned> mfa298: Good idea, Have the Pi manage jpg to ascii conversion, send ascii packets... Done
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[15:57] <SgtBurned> How much do you think a Plug and Play card for the Pi to be ready to transmit GPS and other data through serial?
[15:58] <DL7AD> fsphil: the camera takes the photo for a loooooooong time (over seconds). they are very blurred when not using a holder
[15:58] <mfa298> cost of the suitable bits from hab supplies + humble pi board + hour (or two) with the soldering iron.
[15:59] <fsphil> DL7AD: what parameters are you using for raspistill?
[15:59] <fsphil> also if your room is dark it'll be taking longer exposures
[15:59] <DL7AD> fsphil: yes raspistill
[15:59] <SgtBurned> mfa298: GPS + Tx + Numerous sensors?
[15:59] <SgtBurned> DL7AD: use the ss parameter?
[15:59] <mfa298> although sending data through the serial port, how old school :p (although I wouldn't recommend the other options unless you seriously know what you're doing)
[15:59] <DL7AD> fsphil: raspistill -w 480 -h 272 -q 50 -vs -o /root/ssdv/bin/image.jpg
[16:00] <jededu> Are you using the DHT22
[16:00] <Maxell> raspist ill?
[16:01] <SgtBurned> mfa298: it's sending the data over /dev/ttyAMA0 at 50 baud. Could most likely get it sent at like 200 to get it over and done with ( although most likely higher chance of the data being corrupted / missing a comma )
[16:01] <DL7AD> fsphil: i cant find the ss parameter in the manual
[16:01] <SgtBurned> DL7AD: ss = shutter speed in ns / ms something small
[16:01] <SgtBurned> try 5000 for ss
[16:01] <fsphil> DL7AD: nor me
[16:02] <DL7AD> one moment
[16:02] <SgtBurned> raspistill --help ( it's right at the bottom. -ss, --shutter : set shutter speed in microseconds )
[16:02] <mfa298> SgtBurned: that was more a reference that I've been playing at alternative ways of doing a payload with a Pi, none of which have a radio module connected to the uart.
[16:02] <mfa298> but they're all a bit experimental and not flight tested.
[16:02] <SgtBurned> Could always try a laser with a 7DoF arm to point it at a receiver with gps locations
[16:03] <SgtBurned> but you know... Practicability and all
[16:04] <SgtBurned> I wonder if you can make a small nuclear reactor to power the pi and surround it all in protective casing and instead of using the normal latex helium balloon you use an array of like 3 x 3 Balloon with paracord rope.
[16:04] Action: SgtBurned is slowly becoming an evil ( not so ) genius
[16:07] <SgtBurned> Small gas fuel tank + turbine -> Generator = Power for a while. If it comes to it have a self destruct too if the pi-cam facial recognition recognises someone else... *cough* not murderous at all *cough*
[16:08] <DL7AD> fsphil: it does not take the -ss parameter
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[16:08] <SgtBurned> 0_o What version are you running?
[16:09] <DL7AD> no idae
[16:09] <DL7AD> i thik the newest
[16:09] <SgtBurned> raspistill -v
[16:09] <DL7AD> i was installed recently
[16:09] <SgtBurned> should be raspistill Camera App v-----
[16:09] <SgtBurned> I just made this image today built from Raspbian.org and updated.
[16:10] <DL7AD> 1.3.6
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[16:10] <SgtBurned> Same as mine 0_o
[16:10] <SgtBurned> try just raspistill -ss 5000
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[16:13] <SgtBurned> Just looking on the tracker. B-41 is doing some nice aerobatics
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[16:14] <DL7AD> SgtBurned: still takes a long time until its finised
[16:15] <SgtBurned> Hmm
[16:15] <DL7AD> i'll try another time....
[16:15] <SgtBurned> I think it's -t for the timeout / time to take photo.
[16:15] <mfa298> the raspistill command takes a while to run although the actual capture time is fairly short
[16:15] <SgtBurned> Sorry, Brain fart ( Shutter speed if it's blurry, Lower the SS ), for the time it's -t
[16:16] <SgtBurned> mfa298: Once it loads up the preview? If so you can just disable the preview and it speeds up a tad
[16:16] <DL7AD> -t in ms?
[16:16] <mfa298> if you're doing it from a python script you could look at the picamera python module - it's very easy to use
[16:16] <SgtBurned> DL7AD: Yes.
[16:16] <mfa298> I'm not a python programmer and I've written a decent bit of code using picamera.
[16:17] <SgtBurned> -t, --timeout : Time (in ms) before takes picture and shuts down (if not specified, set to 5s)
[16:17] <mfa298> from the measurements I've done even with that it can take a while for a capture to complete part of which is the gpu processing and writing out the resulting file.
[16:18] <DL7AD> SgtBurned: got it ;) its doing faster
[16:18] <SgtBurned> ;) No problem
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[16:18] <SgtBurned> mfa298: Thats strange. usually I can take a picture and output it in under .5 seconds ( although it is very bright due to the sensor picking up all the light )
[16:19] <mfa298> depends on which processing port and image size you're using
[16:19] <SgtBurned> Full size picture ( although making an overlay takes longer... )
[16:19] <mfa298> I'm doing some images at .3s, some I've been optimizing the settings for best quality large image and that's nearer 1s
[16:19] <SgtBurned> not sure which processing port.
[16:19] <SgtBurned> 2.5k x 2k pixels or something silly
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[16:24] <jededu> SgtBurned : What sensors do you have on board we have 9 I think but 4 are temp
[16:24] <SgtBurned> jededu: 9 was just an over exaggeration ;D. It's only 1 Pressure and 1 Temp
[16:24] <SgtBurned> but there are other values like max altitude reached, time since launch etc
[16:25] <jededu> We have to many went a bit mad
[16:25] <SgtBurned> which are sent over different signals like $GPDATA etc for the data and then another sentence for the GPS data.
[16:25] <SgtBurned> jededu: nothing wrong with mad, normally turns out to be pure genius :D
[16:26] <SgtBurned> How many physical sensors do you have?
[16:26] <SgtBurned> I'm guessing atleast 4 if you have 4 temps
[16:26] <mfa298> with all this pi talk i should probably add the standard disclaimer - if it's just gps, radio and sensors (no camera) then there are *much* better platforms than the pi for a hab payload.
[16:26] <SgtBurned> like the Arduino. But I like the Pi for it's functionality and ease.
[16:27] <mfa298> for hab use you wont like the Pi so much for it's power consumption, potential overheating, or the SD card falling out.
[16:27] <jededu> tmp102 i2c address 48
[16:27] <jededu> bmp085 i2c address 77
[16:27] <jededu> ds18b20 gpio 4
[16:27] <jededu> dht22 gpio 17
[16:27] <SgtBurned> Nice
[16:28] <SgtBurned> SD Card falling out isn't much of a problem. Bit of electrical tape or even duct tape. Sorted.
[16:29] <jededu> And PiCam but no sstv
[16:29] <daveake> Use micro sd card adapter. Even more sorted
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[16:35] <jededu> I use one of these but its not pink http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Micro-SD-Card-Adapter-for-Macbook-reduced-length-/231179032351?_trksid=p2054897.l4276
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[16:35] <SgtBurned> and that kids, is why you shouldn't use other peoples networks... That and they could be capturing your data... boring boring data.
[16:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> B-41 4822Kms todate http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-41_20140318/index.php?ind=15
[16:40] <SgtBurned> Been watching that. Nice aerobatics :D
[16:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not many APRS or other tracking stations from now on ..
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rBmnQN78aZU#t=405 - Is this high altitude enough to be on topic? (not really)
[16:41] <SgtBurned> How much would a simple tracking station cost? ( Just receiving and possible transmitting )
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> A hundred quid will easily cover a habamp and a cheap USB dongle
[16:42] <SpeedEvil> And some sort of antenna
[16:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> and Net connection
[16:42] <x-f> what do you want to transmit?
[16:43] <SgtBurned> Possibly data back to a High alt balloon with a receiver?
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[16:46] <Laurenceb__> B-41 should be in range of APRs at Rostov soon
[16:46] <SgtBurned> Well guys, It's been fun discussing world domination... I mean. ' Balloons '
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[16:47] <LeoBodnar> looks like all these APRSes are just "internet-of-things" things
[16:48] <LeoBodnar> or echo-link nonsense
[16:48] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: yep
[16:48] <LeoBodnar> there are some real ones closer towards Caucasus / Sochi
[16:49] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: UA6LBJ-1 is a real aprs digi
[16:50] <amell_> B-41 impressive progress.
[16:51] <amell_> is it actually visible on radar? Wondering if russian air defence can see it.
[16:52] <Hes> What's the B-41 callsign?
[16:52] <amell_> m0xer-11
[16:53] <Hes> Quite a flight!
[16:54] <amell_> should get picked up by volgograd or rostov on don
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[17:00] <DL7AD> amell_: volgograd has no repeater or iage....
[17:01] <DL7AD> but B-41 was recently picked up by an igate LeoBodnar amell_
[17:01] <amell_> UA4AMM is a igate?
[17:01] <amell_> in volgograd
[17:01] <amell_> I see its back however
[17:02] <DL7AD> could be.... but most time its not
[17:02] <DL7AD> no it is not
[17:02] <DL7AD> well im unsure ^^
[17:03] <amell_> rostov on don has it anyway
[17:05] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, when you use a supervisor chip for critical cutoff on the buck controller, did you need to use a pullup/down on the reset to enable line? Most I've found are push pull so while it needs to be an active low part, I don't think it needs a pull up or down?
[17:05] <SpeedEvil> You need to read the datasheet for the switching controller.
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> And find out what its reset/enable line requires
[17:06] <amell_> first british balloon in iran and afghanistan?
[17:06] <aadamson> I did that, all it says is the EN (tps62290) it's that it's an input and is on when above 1v and off when at ground
[17:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> 5189Kms now http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-41_20140318/index.php?ind=15
[17:06] <aadamson> doesn't say if it has internal pullup etc,
[17:07] <LeoBodnar> there are both types so it's better to plan for a pullup and then N/P it if you use push-pull
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> aadamson: So you go and look at the input current specs
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[17:07] <aadamson> input current on the EN is .01uA
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> aadamson: If it says +-0.4uA@125C max, then it has no pullup
[17:07] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: thumbs up
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> Or that
[17:07] <amell_> that hysplit is old, fresh one?
[17:07] <LeoBodnar> sometimes it's hard to source the right voltage/logic/package
[17:08] <LeoBodnar> most are not push-pull
[17:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> which hysplit ?
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> aadamson: That means that you probably need to ensure that there is a pulldown, just to make sure it goes off. A 1M resistor would be plenty
[17:08] <DL7AD> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub/arlTraj.swf?client=gme-noaa&channel=OAR.ARL.HQ.HYSPLIT&dir=/hypubout/HYSPLITtraj_126396&data=/hysplit_metadata&ext=html
[17:08] <LeoBodnar> similar to OC
[17:08] <SpeedEvil> aadamson: Unless the input driver actively pulls it low. Or unless it actually says that it doesn't require it in some manner.
[17:09] <LeoBodnar> as it might be shared with say reset button
[17:09] <SpeedEvil> You don't want the enable input to float high
[17:09] <amell_> DL7AD looks like it might come back into russia. hope not.
[17:09] <aadamson> so what you two are saying is that I need *both* pull up and pull down and populate what is needed?
[17:10] <DL7AD> amell_: i have no preferences for the trajectory because there are no aprs iages in iran as well ^^
[17:10] <aadamson> SpeedEvil, it says it *can't float* :) needs to be connected
[17:10] <LeoBodnar> no just pullup
[17:10] <aadamson> yeah that's what I figured...
[17:10] <SpeedEvil> If it says can't float - then you need to define the voltage level
[17:10] <LeoBodnar> well start from finding out what your DCDC chip needs
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> This means that if your reset chip (or whatever) pulls only high - you need to pull the signal low.
[17:11] <LeoBodnar> as it can be EN or -EN
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> If your reset chip pulls high and low - you don't need anything
[17:11] <aadamson> it's a tps62290 it's enabled when above 1v, not enabled when below 1v
[17:11] <aadamson> reset using the mcp809 (active low) is a PP
[17:11] <SpeedEvil> Inputs that pull high or low will say this - or at least will have an input current defined as significantly more than leakage
[17:12] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[17:12] <aadamson> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps62290.pdf - doesn't say either from what I can tell
[17:13] <LeoBodnar> "This pin must be terminated."
[17:13] <aadamson> exactly
[17:13] <aadamson> I knew that part
[17:13] <aadamson> it can't float
[17:13] <SpeedEvil> Best way to terminate a pin is with wiresnips. Or a gun.
[17:13] <LeoBodnar> so you need a pulldown
[17:14] <LeoBodnar> wait i am lost lol
[17:14] <aadamson> yeah.... I think we all got confused
[17:14] <aadamson> I think with a PP only reset (active low) I don't need any up or down
[17:14] <aadamson> but with a OC part i"d need a pull up
[17:15] <LeoBodnar> you still might want a pull-down for when the reset chip itself goes into coma
[17:15] <aadamson> yeah, there is that one extreme if the voltage dropped below 1v
[17:15] <LeoBodnar> at that voltage level LiPo is probably dead anyway
[17:16] <LeoBodnar> so yeah PP and no resistors
[17:16] <aadamson> for now I'll just put an up and down in there and figure it out... thanks for the hhelp
[17:16] <LeoBodnar> actually that what i have design the board for
[17:16] <aadamson> no resistors?
[17:16] <LeoBodnar> but could not source right chips at a short notice so bodged a pullup and OC supervisor
[17:17] <aadamson> I've found that most of the newer supervisors are all PP, tmc809, mcp809, etc both ti, and microchip make them
[17:17] <Laurenceb__> coming up to 70 hours on B-41
[17:17] <aadamson> all sot23 packaged
[17:17] <Laurenceb__> breaking B-6 record
[17:17] <aadamson> is it back in coverage?
[17:18] <aadamson> ah, indeed it is... very nice!
[17:20] <LeoBodnar> -47C ouch
[17:20] <LeoBodnar> oh dear not MC
[17:20] <LeoBodnar> i have bought a few and they are dead on arrival
[17:20] <amell_> is there a temp at which B41 can't function?
[17:20] <SpeedEvil> amell_: yes
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[17:21] <SpeedEvil> amell_: What that temp is is a more interesting question :)
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[17:21] <LeoBodnar> all samples were dear - i just threw all MC supervisors i had
[17:21] <LeoBodnar> aadamson: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/kitteh-scope.jpg
[17:22] <LeoBodnar> this is *not* microchip
[17:22] <aadamson> hehe.. that is cute :)
[17:23] <LeoBodnar> testing supervisor chip
[17:23] <arko> LeoBodnar: aww
[17:23] <arko> how did you create that?
[17:24] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, http://www.ti.com/product/lm809 has a few in the series, 2 of the 3 shown at the bottom are PP
[17:24] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/kitteh-chip.jpg + pullup
[17:24] <LeoBodnar> and feed it with positive going sinewave
[17:25] <LeoBodnar> using internal Agilent scope siggen
[17:25] <LeoBodnar> came useful for once
[17:25] <arko> what in the world
[17:26] <Laurenceb__> its going to Armenia http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2573/83008557.jpg
[17:27] <arko> mother armenia!
[17:27] <LeoBodnar> I think this kitteh would make Bob Pease proud
[17:28] <arko> very nice scope Leo
[17:28] <aadamson> Dang, it's *cold up there* :)
[17:28] <aadamson> and it's come down a little I guess when the night time approaching
[17:29] <arko> i got friends in georgia
[17:29] <arko> i'll ping them
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[17:32] <arko> LeoBodnar: whats the freq info?
[17:32] <arko> on B-41
[17:32] <arko> oh wait, email nvm
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[17:34] <arko> LeoBodnar: ok, sent an email out to 6 hams in Georgia
[17:34] <LeoBodnar> cool! ta
[17:34] <arko> np, hopefully one of them sets up :P
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[17:48] <Laurenceb__> x-f.lv doesnt show aprs for some reason
[17:48] <Laurenceb__> its not on habitat?
[17:49] <mattbrejza> fairly sure aprs is imported just to snus with a script
[17:49] <Laurenceb__> ah
[17:49] <mattbrejza> (so not via habitat)
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[18:38] <DL7AD> rofl.... figured out, that a flight is logged on radiometrix webpage :) http://www.radiometrix.com/babbage-bear-breaks-baumgartners-skydiving-record-with-raspberry-pi-new-radiometrix-ntx2b-transmitte
[18:39] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[19:43] <nosebleedkt> hi
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[20:26] <jededu> On spacenear.us when I click show uk notams there is no notam data ?
[20:31] <daveake> Try http://notaminfo.com/nationalmap
[20:34] <fsphil> oooh there's one OVER MY HOUSE
[20:34] <arko> H0577/14: Free balloon ascent will take place
[20:34] <arko> neato
[20:34] <arko> hhahaha
[20:35] <arko> daveake: is there one for the US?
[20:36] <daveake> no idea sorry
[20:36] <arko> that map is awesome
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[20:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> arko: what is ICAO destignator for whole US (for Poland EPWW)
[20:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> arko: https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWeb/
[20:38] <jededu> daveake: thanks
[20:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> arko: fill in "location" ie whole Poland: EPWW and You have notams displayed
[20:39] <arko> but not a map
[20:39] <arko> right?
[20:39] <aadamson> http://tfr.faa.gov/tfr_map_ims/html/index.html
[20:40] <arko> there we go!
[20:40] <arko> nice aadamson
[20:40] <jededu> daveake: is it supposed to work on the tracker ?
[20:40] <daveake> Well I guess it did once ;/
[20:41] <arko> these are TFR's
[20:41] <aadamson> both tfrs and notams are displayed on that map look at florida around epcot for example
[20:42] <arko> oh
[20:42] <arko> there are wayyy more notams than that in los angeles county
[20:42] <arko> hmm
[20:42] <arko> i'll figure it out later, back to work for me
[20:42] <aadamson> yeah, all the *ground based ones are not shownn*
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[20:46] <jcoxon> wow - go B41
[20:48] <aadamson> yeah maybe it's going to return to home before it's all done :)
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> I'd like to present something
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/i/0/0/5yv46b-k59f7g-rp95/IMG1047.jpeg this
[20:49] <aadamson> looks like a bunch of plastic and fiber board :)
[20:49] <aadamson> oh, with a bunch of pretty punched holes in them
[20:49] <aadamson> shinny too :)
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
[20:56] <jededu> So there is a launch from ross-on wye tomorrow?
[20:57] <daveake> yup
[20:57] <daveake> not mine
[20:57] <jededu> daveake: Is that yours
[20:58] <jededu> ok :)
[20:59] <jededu> daveake: when is the Pi going up
[21:00] <daveake> what pi is that? :). I have no plans atm
[21:00] <jcoxon> wow aprs is quite good in the south of russia
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[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> arko, solidworks L1 + L2 rocket build: http://pbrd.co/1f0moOF
[21:07] <ibanezmatt13> well, attempt
[21:08] <arko> ibanezmatt13: :D nice work man
[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[21:08] <arko> i love solidworks
[21:08] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, it's awesome
[21:10] <arko> now mill it!
[21:11] Action: ibanezmatt13 thinks he should know what arko means
[21:12] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> I've got some parts on the way. Gonna have a mess around with them first to get an idea before I build it :)
[21:12] <arko> build it
[21:12] <arko> is what i meant
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> thought so, I pictured a milling machine
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> you know, those router things to cut shapes
[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> I think that's what they do anyway :P
[21:15] <ibanezmatt13> cup of tea required. bbl
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[21:21] <Laurenceb> it should soon be in range of...
[21:21] <Laurenceb> http://www.trac.org.tr/uploads/galeri/4792266-ym9kar-1.jpg
[21:21] <Laurenceb> hopefully he can aim it for us
[21:22] <Laurenceb> tons of APRS in the caucuses
[21:22] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[21:23] <LeoBodnar> yeah, i guess mountains make it easier
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[21:28] <aadamson> let's count nose hairs :( - http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[21:30] <SpeedEvil> http://ssdv.habhub.org/images/2014-03-21--16-40-57-D-3-8EF.jpeg?u=45 - wha's the red dot in the middle?
[21:32] <daveake> probably a reflection from the red led on a pi cam :)
[21:32] <Laurenceb> http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/M0XER-11
[21:32] <Laurenceb> weird vsolar voltage pulses
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[21:34] <db_g6gzh> there are spikes at the same time on Vbatt and Temp
[21:36] <nosebleedkt> hi again !!! :p
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> hi nosebleedkt
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> I got something new today
[21:39] <nosebleedkt> space pics ? :D
[21:41] <nosebleedkt> well Im happy because I joined this channel again after long time. I think my D/Cs have gone now :)
[21:42] <SA6BSS> Looks like B41 going to have some nice weather along with it for the next few days http://www.weather-forecast.com/maps/Ukraine
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedkt, cool
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedkt, here http://s.gullipics.com/image/i/0/0/5yv46b-k59f7g-rp95/IMG1047.jpeg
[21:43] <nosebleedkt> homemade stuff :D
[21:43] <nosebleedkt> what it does ?
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> balloon computer
[21:43] <jededu> ibanezmatt13: this is the one I used when i worked at Cosworth http://www.mdavisgrp.com/media/items/Bridgeport_Milling_Machine_SN_J2847080.JPG real mlling machine
[21:44] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[21:47] <aadamson> Lunar_Lander, I'm still trying to figure out why that package isn't broken open, pasted layed down and parts soldered already!... I means it's been an hour since you first posted! :)
[21:47] <aadamson> as they say... "times a wastin"
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> because I have all the stuff at uni and I am in evening mode now :)
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> but I think I will spend tomorrow at uni :)
[21:48] <aadamson> well that's no fun... toaster oven, timer, thermocouple and a voltmeter and poof done ...
[21:48] <aadamson> I just use one of these and a toaster oven :)
[21:48] <aadamson> http://www.rocketscream.com/shop/reflow-oven-controller-shield-arduino-compatible
[21:49] <nosebleedkt> Lunar_Lander have you launched 2nd mission?
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[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I thought about having a toaster in the lab for that
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedkt, no, that is for the second one
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[21:52] <aadamson> Lunar_Lander, or hot air reflow, but I actually like the toaster approach, it works every time and you just put it in until the little arduino tells you its done :)
[21:52] <Lunar_Lander> yea :)
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[21:56] <nosebleedkt> do we have any new launches the past 2yrs ?
[21:56] <nosebleedkt> Iwas missing long time here :D
[21:56] <Lunar_Lander> yeah LeoBodnar did a lot with Pico balloons
[21:57] <aadamson> nosebleedkt, about every weekend, more tomorrow
[21:57] <aadamson> b-41 is still up actually
[21:57] <nosebleedkt> any photos ?
[21:58] <Reb-SM3ULC> http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/
[21:58] <jededu> What of b-41
[21:58] <aadamson> http://spacenear.us/tracker/ - b-41 (pico foil balloon)
[21:58] <aadamson> launched 2 almost 3 days ago
[21:58] <LeoBodnar> They are just repeated delayed data <Laurenceb> weird vsolar voltage pulses
[21:59] <Reb-SM3ULC> aadamson: too bad tracking possibilities seem to end where it is..
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> aprs.fi does not detect repeats outside of 10-20 minutes interval and these were few hours late.
[21:59] <aadamson> Reb-SM3ULC, not sure what you mean, it's on aprs and doing just fine
[22:00] <aadamson> well within range for a few more hours
[22:00] <aadamson> and predictions suggest it will head back west as long as it keeps going.
[22:00] <aadamson> nice job LeoBodnar btw!
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[22:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> aadamson: meant after that
[22:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> aadamson: aah, missed out on the latest preds
[22:01] <LeoBodnar> ta aadamson
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> nosebleedkt, I followed the test of your third computer on Facebook
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> awesome work :)
[22:02] <nosebleedkt> still trying
[22:02] <nosebleedkt> not finished 100%
[22:04] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: what's on the roadmap to test on future flights?
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:05] <LeoBodnar> i want to fly some butane stabilised system
[22:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: "same" or new heights?
[22:07] <LeoBodnar> well it will be lower and weirder
[22:08] <db_g6gzh> LeoBodnar: APRS log at http://paste.debian.net/88963/ if you're interested
[22:09] <Laurenceb> how does APRS deal with multiple receivers picking up a payload?
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> cheers David, as always! :D
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> the first that reaches aprs.fi wins, the rest are dropped
[22:09] <Laurenceb> ah
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> it's carp system and a compromise: http://blog.aprs.fi/2008/03/on-duplicate-and-delayed-packets.html
[22:10] <db_g6gzh> The french stations got there quicker than the ones at the start of my log
[22:10] <Laurenceb> interesting
[22:10] <LeoBodnar> so back-filled logs won't work :/
[22:11] <Laurenceb> there is no sequence number?
[22:13] <Laurenceb> ah there is a time
[22:13] <Laurenceb> i wonder if theres a way to trick it
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[22:14] <LeoBodnar> there is a sequence number in telemetry
[22:14] <LeoBodnar> and it gets ignored :/
[22:15] <Laurenceb> durrrrr
[22:15] <Laurenceb> ok i have an idea
[22:15] <Laurenceb> go back along the historical path at ~300mph
[22:15] <Laurenceb> then reverse direction
[22:15] <Laurenceb> interleave the waypoints so you dont have to repeat
[22:15] <LeoBodnar> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M0XER-11&limit=50&view=decoded
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> troll aprs.fi
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[22:16] <Laurenceb> lol
[22:16] <Laurenceb> how is the scale and offset set for the payload?
[22:16] <Laurenceb> - for the telemetry
[22:16] <LeoBodnar> there is a report with a timestamp designed specifically for "historical data" but aprs.fi ignores timestamps and uses packet arrival time instead
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> http://www.aprs.net/vm/DOS/TELEMTRY.HTM
[22:17] <Laurenceb> hmm
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> EQNS,A1,B1,C1,A2,B2,C2,A3,B3,C3,etc Where the An,Bn,Cn are the coeficients for each of the five analog channels,
[22:18] <Laurenceb> so is there another APRS parser that will run correctly?
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?call=M0XER-11
[22:18] <LeoBodnar> not that i know of
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> well we can always retrieve raw packets from aprs.fi and do our own parser
[22:19] <Laurenceb> aha BULLETINS
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> it's rather trivial
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> they are broadcasts
[22:19] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: inform aprs.fi - he's always in for a good new feature. Recently also implemented http://blog.aprs.fi/2014/02/mic-e-mangled-packet-parsing.html
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> he used to drop in here
[22:20] <db_g6gzh> He's Hes in here IIRC
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> Mic-E is so screwed up it should be made illegal to use it
[22:21] <Maxell> Mic-E is making me sick
[22:21] <Maxell> however, it is quite quick >:)
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> yeah but...
[22:21] <LeoBodnar> Binary UKHAS format ftw
[22:21] <Maxell> lol
[22:22] <db_g6gzh> I think that the APRS-IS servers will also discard duplicates so they won't all even reach aprs.fi
[22:23] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: was thinking about that.. receiving the raw packet and then handle the rest apart from aprs.fi
[22:23] <db_g6gzh> It's hard to work out what the actual coverage is due to that
[22:24] <LeoBodnar> RZ6HSP igates too (150km SE of B-41)
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[22:24] <LeoBodnar> i agree db_g6gzh
[22:25] <LeoBodnar> i'd so much want to run analysis on packets reception!
[22:26] <db_g6gzh> I (or you) could set the filters on APRS-IS to receive M0XER-* but still wouldn't get everything
[22:26] <Reb-SM3ULC> db_g6gzh: possible to retreive full feed from aprs-is? then do the rest self?
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[22:28] <Upu> wow
[22:28] <Upu> B-41 :)
[22:28] <db_g6gzh> Reb-SM3ULC: I've not actually tried it but I think duplicates would still be deleted upstream so covergae analysis wouldn't be practical. It might be possible to handle long delayed packets better.
[22:28] <Lunar_Lander> hi Anthony
[22:29] <Upu> evening Lunar
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> hope you are well
[22:29] <Upu> thats not far from where I got too but you've gone a way round
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> I am
[22:29] <Upu> Always Lunar
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> look at this http://s.gullipics.com/image/i/0/0/5yv46b-k59f7g-rp95/IMG1047.jpeg
[22:29] <Upu> super
[22:29] <Upu> get soldering
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[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> db_g6gzh: MacBook:~ lbodnar$ telnet aprs.radom.pl 10152 | grep M0XER
[22:31] <Maxell> so basicly it just showns up at aprs.fi by the callsign that has the fastes intenet connection?
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> wait a few mins
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> basically yes
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> DOS the competition lol
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> aprs wars
[22:32] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: and uh, "why" aprs.radom.pl?
[22:32] <amell_> leobodnar: what the dickens is butane stabilisation?
[22:32] <Maxell> Why whouly I i send my RX'd packets to aprs.radom.pl?
[22:32] <Maxell> and why whould I feed of aprs.radom.pl?
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> it rebroadcasts aprs network traffic
[22:32] <db_g6gzh> you can filter in the network to save having everything come down (see budlist) http://www.aprs-is.net/javAPRSFilter.aspx
[22:32] <Maxell> For the same reason one would use freenode vs efnet?
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[22:33] <amell_> Lunar_Lander: you've posted that image of your duvet cover 3 times now. Do post it a few more times to get it out of your system.
[22:33] <Maxell> ah
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> you can pull data directly from aprs.net network
[22:34] <Maxell> but they encourage you to not overload it?
[22:34] <Maxell> by using someone elses server
[22:34] <Maxell> M0XER-11>APRS,WIDE2-1,qAR,UA6LBJ-1:!/7S/3Xn=:O 2m/A=027076|NtKD!!9{!)!'!!|
[22:34] <Maxell> M0XER-11>APRS,WIDE2-1,qAR,UA6LBJ-1:!/7T67Xn4+O 2m/A=027056|NuKI!!:$!*!&!!|
[22:34] <Maxell> hmm
[22:35] <Maxell> So some kind of duplicate filter or just UA6LB RXing?
[22:35] <LeoBodnar> these are two different packets
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> he was the first to send them to aprs network
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> amell_: it was some crazy idea we cooked up with Laurenceb
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> but it turns out NASA already tried it in 1970's
[22:38] <amell_> leobodnar: when i googled it i only came up with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p60p4fi75g
[22:38] <db_g6gzh> Maxell: there are a number of servers which are interconnected so clients/igates can connect to any one of them to spread the load and can select what they want to receive using the filters I linked above
[22:39] <amell_> this appears to be an islamic terrorist microwave stuff site.
[22:41] <Maxell> amell_: thanks for getting me on another blacklist
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> oh dear. nobody flown butane stabilised system yet. NASA used some freon refrigerant fro that
[22:44] <malgar> are the 2 launches of tomorrow from uk?
[22:44] <malgar> are they foil or latex?
[22:44] <malgar> LeoBodnar: B-41.. no words :O
[22:44] <fsphil> both latex I believe
[22:45] <malgar> is there a new noaa for b41?
[22:45] <malgar> wonderful flight
[22:46] <amell_> apparently if you bake a new iPhone 5 inside a cake, it is fine. I really needed to know this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU-dGfeLOsQ
[22:47] <LeoBodnar> malgar: http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/133733_trj001.gif
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> amell_: cakes may only go to 70C inside
[22:48] <db_g6gzh> so I added a filter and I'm now getting APRS-IS feeding my log too 2014-03-21 22:47:04.266 APRSIS R M0XER-11>APRS,WIDE2*,qAR,RZ6HSP:!/7Z^nXmSuO 2m/A=027076|O!KF!!:&!(!%!!|
[22:48] <db_g6gzh> but I don't expect any more than is on aprs.fi already
[22:50] <Maxell> db_g6gzh: yeah, so it's just old skool load balancing :P
[22:50] <Maxell> Looks like RZ6HSP is taking over now.
[22:51] <Laurenceb> yeah aiui butane hasnt been flown
[22:51] <Laurenceb> but the nasa paper suggests it as a freon alternative
[22:51] <db_g6gzh> there are round-robin DNS entries - I connect to rotate.aprs2.net which is a different server each time
[22:51] <amell_> link to paper please?
[22:52] <Maxell> db_g6gzh: yeah that would work
[22:52] <Maxell> but won't you end up on isolated servers
[22:52] <db_g6gzh> in theory they are all interconnected with a full feed
[22:52] <Maxell> ah, sounds fine
[22:52] <Laurenceb> ah its picking up some new receivers
[22:53] <Laurenceb> this APRS is working almost to the horizon
[22:53] <heathkid> Upu, how do you like opencart?
[22:53] <Upu> hot and ocld
[22:53] <Upu> is ok
[22:53] <db_g6gzh> for all its crapness APRS is remarkably useful
[22:53] <Upu> upgrade is rude worked rhymes with mucked
[22:53] <heathkid> is it pretty easy to use? integrate?
[22:54] <heathkid> starting from scratch for a new site
[22:54] <Upu> yeah its ok
[22:54] <Upu> but I struggle to upgrade it
[22:54] <heathkid> any security issues?
[22:54] <Upu> none
[22:54] <amell_> looks like b41 might just miss sochi
[22:54] <heathkid> great
[22:54] <cm13g09> BAH.....
[22:54] <cm13g09> I seem to have misplaced all of my USB A-B cables in the move
[22:54] <Upu> I'm working out how to ingrate it with some accounts s/w
[22:54] <cm13g09> this makes ATMega programming very hard!
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[22:55] <heathkid> which do you prefer, the uBlox 7C, 7Q or still the 6?
[22:55] <heathkid> that 6T I got from you is awesome!
[22:56] <Upu> its very good
[22:56] <Upu> 7C/7Q are both good
[22:56] <heathkid> is the supply voltage the main difference?
[22:57] <Upu> yeah and the lack of TCXO on the 7C
[22:57] <heathkid> nice (7Q)
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[22:57] <Upu> yes
[22:57] <heathkid> might have to give it a try
[22:57] <Upu> but made lots of "timing" boards for the Pi using the &Q
[22:57] <Upu> 7Q
[22:57] <Laurenceb> looks like B-41 should be in range until tomorrow evening
[22:58] <Upu> and everyone is raving about them
[22:58] <Upu> Laurenceb http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/135070_trj001.gif
[22:58] <Upu> off to China
[22:58] <malgar> thenalaska
[22:58] <malgar> :P
[22:58] <amell_> if it makes japan, that would be uber radical
[22:59] <Laurenceb> if it can last until 26th it might be back in range
[22:59] <Upu> well no reason why not unless it leaks
[22:59] <Laurenceb> about as long a flight as B-11
[22:59] <Upu> I often wonder if there are still some up there
[22:59] <amell_> is there any helium permeability in the balloon envelope?
[23:00] <Upu> the envelope does degrade
[23:00] <Upu> LeoBodnar got one back that was degraded
[23:00] <amell_> UV degradation presumably
[23:00] <amell_> and thermal cycling
[23:00] <Upu> its on his balloons page somewhere
[23:01] <Maxell> the small hospital-foil balloon type here is still capable of lifitng itself
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> after two days a lot of aluminium has fell off
[23:01] <amell_> I am wondering if balloon manufacturers quote helium permeability figures
[23:01] <LeoBodnar> it's on the outside
[23:01] <Maxell> however, up there is a bit more rough
[23:02] <Maxell> hmm, another UA6LBJ packet
[23:02] <Maxell> afk
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[23:31] <Laurenceb> it might just be the stress
[23:31] <Laurenceb> causing delamination
[23:31] <Laurenceb> i tried to do some calculations on diffusion loss rate
[23:31] <Laurenceb> its a bit hard to calculate to say the least
[23:32] <Laurenceb> but it looked like something in the range of 2 to 4 weeks flight time
[23:32] <amell_> termal stress?
[23:32] <amell_> thermal stress?
[23:32] <Laurenceb> mechanical
[23:32] <amell_> buffeting etc. ok
[23:32] <Laurenceb> the envelope stretches a lot
[23:33] <Laurenceb> its also a case of how much free lift can be lost before it becomes unstable
[23:33] <SpeedEvil> And rain and stuff comes into it too at the altitudes in question
[23:33] <Laurenceb> B-6 was a really interesting flight to watch - there seemed to be a thermal instability
[23:33] <amell_> the diffusion could also cause delimitation if the permeability between layers are different.
[23:33] <amell_> delamination
[23:34] <Laurenceb> yeah, but it seems its intrinsically unstable once it gets to ~ <1gram of free lift
[23:34] <Laurenceb> maybe Leo can give more info
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> yeah - that too
[23:34] <Laurenceb> i forget the free lift on B-6
[23:34] <Laurenceb> going for more altitude helps massively
[23:35] <amell_> party balloons are clearly not designed for duration and stress.
[23:35] <amell_> what about a foil balloon designed to last?
[23:35] <LeoBodnar> i think B-11 or B-12 oscillated massively as well
[23:35] <Laurenceb> as the air pressure drops, so you need less excess pressure
[23:35] <Laurenceb> ah yeah, during ascent
[23:35] <LeoBodnar> B-11 http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/2.png
[23:35] <Laurenceb> maybe a cloud layer?
[23:35] <LeoBodnar> yeah weird yoyoing
[23:36] <Laurenceb> it always hits more or less the same max altitude
[23:36] <amell_> could be wind...
[23:36] <LeoBodnar> 3g free lift
[23:37] <LeoBodnar> i think it is underdamped system so give it a too much of a whack and it will keep oscillating for hours
[23:37] <Laurenceb> hmm
[23:37] <Laurenceb> which has 3g?
[23:37] <LeoBodnar> B-11
[23:37] <LeoBodnar> B-6 was 1.3g
[23:37] <Laurenceb> ah, low
[23:37] <Laurenceb> i was thinking 4
[23:37] <Laurenceb> very interesting
[23:38] <amell_> i think its call ageostrophic wind.
[23:38] <Laurenceb> so id hazard a guess it only lost ~2 grams of helium during the flight, over almost 8 days
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[23:40] <Laurenceb> seemed to be stable up to the end
[23:40] <Laurenceb> whats the free lift on B-41?
[23:41] <LeoBodnar> about 2.8g
[23:41] <Laurenceb> ok
[23:41] <Laurenceb> were you finding there was an increased risk of burst on the 4 gram ones?
[23:41] <LeoBodnar> i did not want to overstress it. it's the one kicking around the office
[23:41] <Laurenceb> oh lol
[23:42] <Laurenceb> when i saw that i hoped you werent launching it lol
[23:42] <LeoBodnar> yeah one of the Arctic challengers blew up
[23:42] <Laurenceb> it could have picked up some micro damage
[23:42] <Laurenceb> what was the Arctic free lift?
[23:43] <LeoBodnar> 4.5g blew up and 4g made it
[23:43] <Laurenceb> very interesting
[23:43] <LeoBodnar> of course it is statistical but...
[23:43] <Laurenceb> i guess the heat at lower latitudes will weaken it
[23:43] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:44] <Laurenceb> working out an accurate diffusion rate is pretty tricky
[23:44] <Laurenceb> but it looked to me like you could expect 2 weeks
[23:44] <LeoBodnar> it is also important whether you achieve ultimate stress straight on or in stages
[23:44] <Laurenceb> ah yeah, there are hardening processes
[23:44] <LeoBodnar> so launching into the night is easier on them
[23:44] Nick change: mrtux -> GNU\Linux
[23:45] <LeoBodnar> day launch is more stressful
[23:45] <Laurenceb> yeah
[23:45] <Laurenceb> GNU\Linux eh?
[23:45] <Laurenceb> RMS in da house?
[23:45] <GNU\Linux> yes
[23:46] <GNU\Linux> >mfw this is the first time i said something here
[23:46] <Upu> probably best we all use Windows in here
[23:46] <amell_> OSX die hard here.
[23:47] Nick change: GNU\Linux -> mrtux
[23:47] <mrtux> i use linux generally except i do dualboot windows
[23:47] <amell_> btw, UKC_WTM5 tomorrow, will it pass within close range of Cambridge?
[23:48] <daveake> nope
[23:48] <amell_> thought he was launching from ross
[23:49] <Upu> you should be able to rx it amell_
[23:49] <Laurenceb> i love using windows
[23:49] <Upu> just get the damn antenna outside
[23:49] <Laurenceb> its a superior os
[23:49] <amell_> hee. will try. family stuff to do unfortunately.
[23:49] <Laurenceb> /troll
[23:50] <daveake> launching from ross and I think landing bicester-ish (but I don't have the ascent/burst/etc)
[23:50] <daveake> certainly receivable from cambridge
[23:51] <Upu> I don't think they are expecting it to go very high ?
[23:52] <mfa298> isn't that one of the heavy payloads - so probably fast descent :p
[23:53] <daveake> oh yeah ... 1.2kg and iirc 800g balloon
[23:53] <daveake> was going to be a 200g balloon
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[00:00] --- Sat Mar 22 2014