[00:01] <amell> need more stations? surprised F5MVO hasn't picked up yet
[00:02] <G8APZ> amell insufficient notice.. it's 1am in France
[00:02] <LeoBodnar> it's more a debrief than notice :D
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[00:06] <LeoBodnar> F5MVO is trying: [2014-03-18 23:51:54,740] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$B-41,122,23J423A>_X"1R5X9.7X&6(!3:(,Y-\n' (...) from F5MVO
[00:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> Herstmonceux Sonde has given up the chase its gone too high ;-)
[00:09] <Maxell> grmbl, ipv6 at remote borken, can't RX at RevSpace.
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[00:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-41_20140318/Predicts_and_Herstmonceux_sonde_and_B-41.jpg
[00:11] <Laurenceb> whats all that other stuff?
[00:11] <Maxell> I wonder why PB0AHX didn't pick up anything. He useally picks them up frist.
[00:12] <Laurenceb> the green one?
[00:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Prediction from NOAA
[00:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Red 7Km, Blue7.5Km, Green 8Km
[00:12] <Laurenceb> the green one seems to be taking off from the south coast of uk ?
[00:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Herstmonceux Soonde I'm tracking as well as Cambourne
[00:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Larkhill is not flying tonight
[00:15] <Laurenceb> ah
[00:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah ha Nottingham is coming in however he' a late chaser won't catch B-41
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[00:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-41_20140318/Busy_in_the_air_tonight.jpg
[00:21] <LeoBodnar> Metoffice could have saved a balloon by using B-41 data
[00:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> I wonder about suggesting plotting Sondes on SNUS !
[00:22] <fsphil> I've done that occasionally
[00:22] <fsphil> though I had many issues getting data out of sondemonitor
[00:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> It would keep the map busy, could use the NMEA stream it gives out ?
[00:23] <fsphil> I ended up tailing the log file, but it gives each sonde its own file so I kept having to find the new one
[00:23] <amell> I see ON6LS is tuned in
[00:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Did it have the GPS output when you tried, it now outputs a GPS lookalike
[00:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> on a serial port
[00:24] <fsphil> It had that option but it wouldn't work under Wine
[00:25] <amell> a chat window in spacenear.us would be cool
[00:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah right, I normally use the GE KML output and the GE server and watch them pop up. He's going to allow different ports on the next release then it can run multipile copies and plot them all
[00:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Must be getting to my limits now its 293.1 Km 300Km has been my best
[00:27] <LeoBodnar> i am off to bed guys. Thanks for tracking B-41!
[00:27] <amell> me too gn
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[00:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup get this one then I'm away as well yea 301.8Km
[00:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Might be coming back round by breakfast ;-)
[00:28] <amell> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2583807/Did-Malaysian-tuna-fisherman-missing-flight-MH370-flying-low-Gulf-Thailand-tried-stay-radar.html
[00:28] <amell> just in. hmmm
[00:29] <gonzo_> pft, blink and you miss another leo launch!
[00:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> Daily Fail again "surrounding terrain as a sonar barrier."
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[00:32] <Laurenceb> if its subsea "terrain"
[00:32] <aadamson> so LeoBodnar is it like .3v or there about from shutdown until it gets above some value?
[00:33] <aadamson> and am I to assume this is a soft shutdown in that the processor is still monitoring vbatt?
[00:34] <amell> http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/654342
[00:34] <amell> its a real pic, hmmmmm
[00:35] <craag> aadamson: I think it was soft shutdown, and then a hard shutdown (EN on vreg) at 2.9V
[00:35] <aadamson> you gonna have to tell us what it is, the image won't loat
[00:35] <aadamson> craag, yeah I heard something similar and I think he said 3.5v
[00:36] <amell> its a pic of a plane in the andaman islands in the middle of the jungle.
[00:36] <aadamson> ah interesting
[00:36] <aadamson> lets see if it will load, I finally got the website to laod
[00:36] <craag> aadamson: A lot of capacity between 3.9 and 3.5 in lipos though.
[00:36] <aadamson> load
[00:36] <amell> I'm dubious as there appear to be settlements not too far away.
[00:36] <aadamson> yeah true enough...
[00:36] <amell> but nevertheless it needs explaining.
[00:36] <aadamson> it's barely getting started
[00:36] <aadamson> :)
[00:37] <aadamson> now that is bizarre, and are we sure that isn't an airplane in flight?
[00:38] <aadamson> There is no desctruction path
[00:38] <aadamson> and it looks like it's above tree line
[00:38] <amell> i agree. the nose is too clearly defined.
[00:38] <g0pai_ian> And the age of the image . . . a bit like looking for AC in flight on Google Earth, three years old.
[00:39] <aadamson> yeah and it's *NOT* a 777
[00:39] <aadamson> unless it lost its engines
[00:39] <amell> ok. daily fail debunked yet again
[00:39] <g0pai_ian> I got the straws, your cars have the clutches.
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[00:40] <aadamson> plane in mid flight
[00:41] <aadamson> hehe just google the image number and tomnod and you'll get a bunch of hits
[00:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-41_20140318/Over_the_Alps_for_Breakfast_B-41_201403190042.jpg
[00:43] <amell> tomcod is a great idea, but filtering the noise out must be a challenge
[00:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> gn all gear on Auto me AFK
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[01:00] <aadamson> Geoff-G8DHE, that the predicted at altitude flight path?
[01:06] <wotzup> Does anyone here have information on HAM radio APRS in Croatia? I have 4 3kg balloons to release in Croatia in 4 weeks time.
[01:09] <fsphil> most europeans are asleep
[01:09] <fsphil> you'll probaly not get much response
[01:09] <fsphil> you might actually have better luck emailing the ukhas list
[01:10] <wotzup> Yes, they are of course. I will come back later. Hey good idea on the list - where can I join that?
[01:10] <fsphil> http://groups.google.com/group/ukhas
[01:10] <wotzup> You read my mind
[01:10] <fsphil> somewhat UK-centric but there are many members from other countries
[01:12] <wotzup> Flying payloads in Croatia will be hard. I have to keep them in a very small country, and they have mine fields. I might actually finally lose a payload. Not because I can't track them, but because I don't want artifical legs for the rest of my life....
[01:13] <fsphil> bigger than Slovenia
[01:13] <wotzup> I am hopeful of flying a world record distance balloon from California in 6 weeks annd to try and get it across much of Europe. Let's see what happens
[01:13] <Lunar_Lander> good night
[01:13] <fsphil> night Lunar_Lander
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[01:14] <wotzup> Night
[01:14] <fsphil> I'd need to head myself. 01:14 here
[01:14] <wotzup> Yep - I'll take your advice. Thanks.
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[01:20] <DL7AD> nats`: morning
[01:22] <Darkside> wotzup: not a hug amount of APRS infrastructure in croatia
[01:23] <Darkside> hug*
[01:23] <Darkside> i'd be sure to have all the required gear you need with you
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[01:27] <wotzup> I will have two portable iGates and other kenwood handhelds, etc. interesting challenges. I am spending time watching the way the jet stream varies too - against the predictions
[01:28] <Darkside> tbh i dont think tlemetry is going to be the biggest problem
[01:28] <Darkside> probably more terrain
[01:28] <wotzup> We will so fly with mobile GPS reorting and spot2 with gimbals in protect boxes.
[01:28] <Darkside> i'd be flying a cutdown, and targeting the landing
[01:28] <Darkside> thats what we do anyway
[01:29] <Darkside> launch, then cut away the payloads when they're going to land in a suidable spot
[01:29] <Darkside> suitable*
[01:29] <wotzup> We have mountaineers for recovery and also I have instructions to keep the payloads out of the minefields!
[01:29] <Darkside> based on our live predictions
[01:29] <Darkside> wotzup: i tak it you're robert brand? it's Mark Jessop here
[01:29] <Darkside> from adelaide
[01:29] <wotzup> Yes, we will have both timer and radio cutdowns
[01:29] <Darkside> i wouldnt use the timer cutdown
[01:30] <Darkside> radio only
[01:30] <wotzup> Yes, that is me and I recognise you name too
[01:30] <Darkside> timer cutdown could cause a landing in a crap place
[01:30] <wotzup> We will use it as backup in case the radio system fails
[01:30] <Darkside> yes, but if you cant disable it from the ground, then it could cause problems
[01:31] <wotzup> We will be flying 3kg balloons.
[01:31] <Darkside> back latr, meeting
[01:31] <wotzup> If it does not burst, then the cutdown will be the backup. We can't let it go too far either.
[01:32] <wotzup> Did you watch Andy's balloon get to NZ yesterday?
[01:34] <wotzup> I'll be back too.
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[02:35] <wotzup> Darkside, are you back yet?
[02:40] <Darkside> yep
[02:40] <Darkside> just got back
[02:41] <Darkside> wotzup: yeah,i saw andys balloon, that was prtty cool
[02:41] <Darkside> hoping to do somthign similar from here soon
[02:41] <Darkside> but i just dont have the time right now
[02:42] <wotzup> Yeh - Andy and I will be going for a long distance record from Pasadena in about 6 weeks. Trying for well into Europe. Should be awesome. I will be speaking at spacefest and hope to show it tracking realtime
[02:43] <Darkside> jeez, how the hell do you get the funds for this stuff..
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[02:44] <wotzup> I'm doing a $30,000 balloon TV commercial in a couple of weeks. Fully commercial
[02:44] <Darkside> mm, you're certainly lucky to be able to do that kind of thing..
[02:44] <wotzup> Possibly a second online TV advert in a different sector. I'm being funded to fly to croatia with my son and do 5 flights
[02:44] <Darkside> we've got a few launches possibly coming up
[02:45] <Darkside> some STEM outreach program, and a few others
[02:45] <wotzup> Yes - 10 for launchbox. I don't like their method and have been working with them to fly in a different way. They are not being commercial about it and that fails.
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[02:46] <Darkside> well we're not particularly commercial about it ither
[02:46] <Darkside> but our problem right now is manpower and tim
[02:46] <Darkside> time*
[02:47] <Darkside> all our group works fulltime, i'm trying to finish my PhD, and terry is overseas a lot now
[02:47] <Darkside> i mean, we've got the experience and the infrastructure to do a launch anytime
[02:48] <Darkside> its just finding the people to do it
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[03:02] <wotzup> Sorry chatting with Andy about our world record attempt
[03:03] <wotzup> Yes, time is hard to find. I'm setting up for zero pressure balloons and starting to buy Raven ZPB for $10K a pop - except that they don't pop of course
[03:07] <wotzup> The nice thing about commercial balloon flights is that we just pay the right people to help. 2 days $1,000 +plus petrol accommodation and expenses.
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[03:27] <Darkside> wotzup: wll, i'm around :P
[03:27] <Darkside> though in the wrong stat
[03:29] <wotzup> I'm here too.
[03:30] <wotzup> I lost your phone number. Would like to have contact at some time.
[03:30] <wotzup> Changed phones. Not compatible to upload contacts
[03:31] <wotzup> Mine is 0448881101 - maybe you can SMS me yours
[03:31] <Darkside> just did
[03:31] <Darkside> i already had your number
[03:32] <Darkside> wotzup: yes, i do :P
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[07:49] <Joel_re> UpuWork: ping
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[08:16] <fsphil> was VK3YT-11 solar powered? and if it was, what are the odds it'll show up in western australia in a few weeks? :)
[08:16] <fsphil> or that Chile or Argentina use the same aprs frequency as australia
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[08:35] <Maxell> fsphil: also notice how it turns off and on based on geofence
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[08:40] <mikestir> what about B41? just out of range?
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[09:13] <Joel_re> can someone share the geofencing code
[09:13] <Joel_re> Im curious
[09:13] <UpuWork> https://github.com/Upuaut/APRS_Projects/tree/master/Pico92
[09:13] <UpuWork> afk
[09:15] <Joel_re> UpuWork: I've place an order for the HabAmp, I was hoping to add the male to male SMA connector, but it wouldnt let me modify the cart contents
[09:16] <Joel_re> will I be charged extra vat for the connector?
[09:16] <Joel_re> s/extra//
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[09:36] <amell> what happened to B-41 - just no coverage?
[09:36] <LeoBodnar> no idea MIA?
[09:38] <amell> fingers crossed. should hear sometime today if not MIA
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[09:39] <Lunar_LanderU> ello
[09:39] <Lunar_LanderU> *hello
[09:40] <fsphil> thought you'd gone all cockney there for a second Lunar_LanderU
[09:40] <fsphil> ello govna!
[09:40] <LeoBodnar> 'allo 'allo
[09:40] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[09:43] <Lunar_LanderU> update time
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[09:43] <eroomde> that was a good update
[09:43] <fsphil> lol
[09:43] <fsphil> in other news
[09:47] <LeoBodnar> so was it a plane or a bird?
[09:48] <amell> MH370 of course
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[09:49] <Lunar_LanderU> back
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[09:56] <UpuWork> Joel_re no problems I'll sort it
[09:57] <Joel_re> UpuWork: let me know, how I pay for the SMA male to male
[10:04] <UpuWork> don't worry about it
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[10:08] <gonzo_> I had a listen for B41 at about 00:40 and heard nowt. Would have expected to get something as that is a reasonable-ish direction for me
[10:08] <gonzo_> though it's possibly not got enough alt for a clear path
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[10:17] <G8APZ> gonzo_ I listened too, whilst it was still inside the blue ring, but heard nothing
[10:18] <G8APZ> As one of Leo's APRS/ISM flights, it probably suffers from the shared 2m antenna...I never get good sigs when APRS is in the mix
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[10:19] <WillSea> Bonjour
[10:19] <gonzo_> have heard micro flights(?)... Small latex ones anyway, at that range no prob. But they were higher.
[10:19] <gonzo_> On holidays will?
[10:19] <WillSea> Je suis dans la bateau pour France
[10:19] <WillSea> Oui. Le exchange
[10:20] <gonzo_> what did they swap you for?
[10:20] <WillSea> :)
[10:20] <G8APZ> moules frites...
[10:21] <gonzo_> good job I have a permanent bablefish window open. Working on french software with french comenting and french var names. And I don't speak a word of it
[10:21] <G8APZ> how many lines of source?
[10:22] <G8APZ> approx...don't actually count
[10:22] <gonzo_> not a clue, I've been working on it for about a yr and hardly scratched the surface
[10:23] <G8APZ> nightmare
[10:24] <gonzo_> this module has approx 2000 actual source lines (not counting comments/spacing) and there are about 30 muules in this layer
[10:25] <gonzo_> three layers then drivers
[10:25] <gonzo_> my brian hurts!
[10:25] <G8APZ> I bet...
[10:25] <gonzo_> and so does hid brain
[10:25] <amell> hope your brian gets better soon
[10:25] <gonzo_> hh
[10:26] <eroomde> poor brian
[10:26] <eroomde> what did you do to him?
[10:26] <G8APZ> when you say working on... do you mean using it, or adapting, converting, or enhancing it?
[10:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> LeoBodnar, Is B-41 doing Log transmissions ? I notice there is a single record back to the French Coast crossing on Habitat ?
[10:27] <LeoBodnar> no it is not
[10:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh right must just be a stray then
[10:27] <G8APZ> Geoff-G8DHE It showed corretly aroun 05:30 ... it flipped back some time between then an 09:00
[10:27] <G8APZ> correctly
[10:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'll check the times
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> I am not sure what happened to B-41, whether stopped transmitting or out of range. First that plane and now this
[10:30] <G8APZ> No APRS?
[10:30] <gonzo_> if there is no news, shall we wildly speculate
[10:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> The last record is <b>Vehicle:</b> B-41<br /><b>Time:</b> 2014-03-18 22:49:03<br /><b>Position:</b> 50.47586,1.52051<br /><b>Altitude:</b> 7211.8728 m<br /><b>Speed:</b> km/h<br /><b>Heading:</b> &deg;<br />
[10:31] <LeoBodnar> No APRS over France
[10:31] <G8APZ> last record maybe but where are the previous ones....?
[10:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> showing 22:49:03 as the time and the location the same as the one really at 22:49:02
[10:31] <G8APZ> Yes of course Leo
[10:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> its like its got misplaved by SNUS
[10:32] <LeoBodnar> conspiracy?
[10:32] <UpuWork> Geoff-G8DHE that was me this morning
[10:33] <UpuWork> I enabled the APRS importer before realising it wasn't on APRS
[10:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> aH RIGHT!
[10:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> MAKES SENSE NOW
[10:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> thats better
[10:36] <gonzo_> I still think that your are covering something up. I will threaten to not eat a bacon roll!
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[10:38] <Laurenceb> is B-41 alive?
[10:39] <Laurenceb> oh over monaco, i see
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[10:45] <eroomde> a sunny place for shady people
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[10:51] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[11:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Prediction changed a lot since 0600 this morning http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/139652_trj001.gif
[11:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah too many options on that last form try again http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/139735_trj001.gif
[11:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thats more like it
[11:07] <eroomde> attn old people:
[11:07] <eroomde> is 5.37-5.38mm an actual hole size in imperial?
[11:07] <eroomde> eg 17/129ths or something
[11:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nothing obvious at /64 level
[11:08] <eroomde> oh well
[11:08] <eroomde> thanks
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[11:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-41_20140318/Actual-Prediction-201403190600.jpg
[11:12] <cuddykid> daveake: It cost a fortune, said Heston lol
[11:14] <daveake> Yerrsss...
[11:14] <daveake> Strangely, I was told that the budget was tight :/
[11:14] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=74f9cafb240d097c468c3942e697dc44da735beb
[11:14] <fsphil> this ain't coming back
[11:14] <daveake> Which I think means "the production co are tight"
[11:15] <cuddykid> haha, or daveake needs a porsche
[11:15] <daveake> only if it has space for the cylinder and chase kit
[11:16] <cuddykid> of course :)
[11:16] <LazyLeopard> Heh! You'd probably need one specially adapted... ;)
[11:16] <fsphil> with an extra fuel tank
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[11:20] <gonzo_> a low sports car with a roof rack for the gas
[11:21] <gonzo_> Actually I did start measuring up my little car to see if it was poss to put a roof frame over the soft top. As the next I've just brought is a bit big
[11:22] <gonzo_> will go in the car if you have no passenger and it sticks out of the back window
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[11:24] <gonzo_> next=tent
[11:24] <gonzo_> only just saw that. Dyslexic typing
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[11:27] <WillSea> gonzo_ yeah dysexlic tpying is bda
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[11:37] <mattbrejza_> UpuWork: around?
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[11:48] <StudentDeNayer> Hi i got a question about a transmitting module the : SI4464, does anyone know where you can buy / sample it ?
[11:48] <UpuWork> hi mattbrejza
[11:49] <eroomde> StudentDeNayer: octopart.com is good for finding who has it in stock
[11:52] <mattbrejza_> UpuWork: attempting to compile habduino code, getting "OneWire does not name a type"
[11:52] <UpuWork> yeah missing libraries
[11:52] <StudentDeNayer> Okaj thanks whats the diffrence between a FMR and a FM SI4464
[11:53] <UpuWork> https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino < see libraries.zip
[11:57] <mattbrejza_> ah thnaks
[11:57] <fiftydollarsat> StudentDeNayer: Do you mean the chip iiself or a module that uses the Si4464 ?
[11:57] <mattbrejza_> also is the radio tx driven by pwm?
[11:58] <UpuWork> yes mattbrejza
[11:59] <mattbrejza_> ok, someones done musical pins with this one
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[11:59] <UpuWork> hmm ?
[11:59] <UpuWork> should just work
[12:00] <mattbrejza_> radio tx is now attached to pin 9
[12:00] <StudentDeNayer> fiftydollarsat : i think the chip itself, this it what i says : SI4464-B1B-FM SI4464-B1B-FMR there's also SI4464-B0B-FM
[12:00] <UpuWork> think it always was ?
[12:01] <UpuWork> I'll check it when I get back need to afk
[12:01] <mattbrejza_> na was 11
[12:05] <fiftydollarsat> StudentDeNayer: Lookup the SiLabs datasheet, the part numbering is explained at the end,
[12:06] <fiftydollarsat> And whilst the Si4463\4 can use Si4463 (RFM22) compatible data packets, programming the device is really a lot different.
[12:07] <fiftydollarsat> opps I meant: And whilst the Si4463\4 can use Si4432 (RFM22) compatible data packets.
[12:08] <StudentDeNayer> fiftydollarsat : is there any example performing a rtty on the Si4464
[12:08] <StudentDeNayer> We'll be using a atmega328p as avr
[12:09] <fiftydollarsat> And on the subject of Si4432\RFM22 data packets, has anyone used the telemetry for HAB uplink\downlink.
[12:09] <craag> fiftydollarsat: On the downlink 10mW doesn't really give you enough power for the high datarates.
[12:10] <craag> Darkside however has used RFM22 packet uplink, with a power boost and a yagi
[12:11] <fiftydollarsat> Craag: Sure but even 10mW ought to get you around 200km MAX LOS, with an omni and LNA, and its a heap more power efficient that the equivalent FSK RTTY.
[12:12] <craag> fiftydollarsat: It's also the case that we didn't have a software demodulator for the RFM22 FSK, whereas a RTTY demodulator was available in fldigi
[12:13] <fiftydollarsat> Uplink is not an issue, 20W into an omni goes around 1700km.
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[12:14] <fiftydollarsat> cragg: Yep, you do need another RFM22 as receiver, though there was talk of someone trying to do it with an upmarket SDR, for Eagle1, but it stopped working at the end of January. .
[12:15] <craag> RFM22 <=> RFM22 at 10mW doesn't give you much range
[12:15] <craag> An FSK demodulator shouldn't be difficult in gnuradio or the like
[12:17] <Darkside> fiftydollarsat: running at 500 baud, i needed a lot mroe than 100mW to get a reliable uplonk to the balloon
[12:17] <Darkside> way way more
[12:17] <Darkside> more like 5W
[12:17] <Darkside> RFM22B to RFM22B would only work occasionally, and this was with a 7 element yagi pointed at the payload
[12:18] <fiftydollarsat> Depends on the distance I guess, on 1/4waves the RFM22 to RFM22 LOS is around 40km at 100mW.
[12:19] <mfa298> with any luck we might get a test of rfm69 - rfm69 soon and see how it works
[12:19] <navrac_work> i did an rfm to rfm uplink - but the range wasnt good - from memory it was 28km with 100mW and a 7 ele yagi
[12:19] <Darkside> fiftydollarsat: this was at about 40km
[12:19] <Darkside> and 1/4 wav to 1/4 wav, we were having problems
[12:19] <Darkside> i would *not* rely on it
[12:19] <Darkside> wll, not for downlink anyway
[12:20] <Darkside> for uplink you could get away wiht it, just feed the RFM22B into an amp
[12:20] <Darkside> which is what i've tried
[12:20] <Darkside> worked pretty well too
[12:20] <mattbrejza_> UpuWork: no reason why changing to pin9 for the rtty out shouldnt work?
[12:20] <mattbrejza_> i dont appear to be getting any frequency when changing to that pin
[12:21] <Laurenceb__> Darkside: do you think a SAW on the payload would help?
[12:21] <Darkside> not really
[12:21] <Laurenceb__> im wondering if it was deafened by interference
[12:21] <Darkside> it wasnt
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[12:21] <mattbrejza_> UpuWork: is timer1 used for anything else?
[12:22] <Darkside> Laurenceb__: i was transmitting the background noise level from it
[12:22] <Darkside> and it was pretty low
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> how odd
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> so the RFM22B is just poor at rx?
[12:22] <Darkside> at low SNR anyway
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> what was the background?
[12:22] <Laurenceb__> dBm
[12:22] <Darkside> cant remember
[12:22] <Darkside> somthing like -105dBm iirc
[12:22] <Darkside> maybe
[12:23] <fiftydollarsat> Darkside: Re 1/4 wave, yes without a proper match the RFM22 can reset itself.
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> right
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> over the rx bandwidth of ~1kHz?
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> and this was over the outback?
[12:23] <Darkside> i dunno what its measuring
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> ok
[12:23] <Darkside> as in, waht bandwidth
[12:23] <Darkside> also it was more lik 2KHz
[12:23] <Darkside> but if so, then yes
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> if its anything like Chipcon its after the dsp filtering
[12:23] <Laurenceb__> right
[12:23] <Darkside> and yes, it was pretty much away from civilisation
[12:24] <Darkside> we were operating in an unused portion of the 70cm band
[12:24] <Darkside> 431.5 or something lik that
[12:24] <Darkside> so no ISM band interference
[12:24] <Laurenceb__> well it looks like it was of order 30dB over thermal
[12:24] <Laurenceb__> so thats pretty significant
[12:24] <Darkside> probably from the boost converter
[12:25] <Darkside> hrm
[12:25] <Laurenceb__> what was your setup in the end?
[12:25] <Darkside> actually even with a LDO we were seeing that
[12:25] <Laurenceb__> RFM22B?
[12:25] <Darkside> yes
[12:25] <Darkside> ok we were getting a report of -107dBm
[12:26] <Darkside> note, that wasnt properly calibrated
[12:26] <Darkside> and again, no idea what bandwidth its measuring over
[12:26] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[12:26] <Darkside> you can look at the datasheet and try and work that out
[12:26] <mattbrejza_> UpuWork: i guess timer 1 is in use so ive decided to use o/p3 instead as theres no aprs (fyi), should be fine now
[12:27] <fiftydollarsat> Yes the RFM22 really is quite deaf, but with a good LNA in from of it I get packets back from around 600km LOS at 100mW using a QF helix.
[12:27] <Darkside> mm a LNA would definitely help
[12:28] <Laurenceb__> fiftydollarsat> wait wut
[12:28] <Laurenceb__> you use RFM22B as Rx ?
[12:28] <fsphil> what data rate?
[12:28] <Darkside> fiftydollarsat: yes, somethign we havnt heard yet - what are the transmit settings on it?
[12:29] <Darkside> baud rate, shift, etc
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[12:29] <fiftydollarsat> Yes, RFM22 is RX, 1kbs. Using lower data rates made little differance, and not a lot of rannge reduction at 2kbs either.
[12:29] <Darkside> mmk
[12:29] <Laurenceb__> wow
[12:29] <Darkside> that sounds reasonable
[12:29] <fsphil> interesting
[12:29] <Laurenceb__> do you do crystal compensation?
[12:29] <Laurenceb__> using the modems calibration thingy?
[12:29] <Darkside> Laurenceb__: it does pull-in
[12:30] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[12:30] <Darkside> up the pre-amble and it pulls in pretty well
[12:30] <Darkside> i could be up to 5KHz off and it would hear me
[12:30] <Laurenceb__> Si4432 datasheet is unclear about RSSI bandwidth
[12:31] <Laurenceb__> i suspect its after the DSP bandpass filtering
[12:31] <fiftydollarsat> Laurenceb: No compensation, just let the RFC do its work, it copes quite well with up to 10khz offset.
[12:31] <Laurenceb__> so dipole on the sat?
[12:31] <Laurenceb__> QFH on the ground?
[12:31] <fiftydollarsat> Yep, dipole made from steel tape rule.
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> oh
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> do you work for SSTL by any chance?
[12:32] <Laurenceb__> they were playing with those things
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[12:34] <Laurenceb__> interestingly this is somewhat different from Darksides project
[12:34] <Laurenceb__> as the receiver is on the ground
[12:35] <Laurenceb__> Darkside: did you try measuring the noise floor with the RFM22B on the ground?
[12:36] <Darkside> probably, i cant remeber the figures
[12:36] <Darkside> it was similar i think
[12:36] <Darkside> but there isnt much 434mhz activity around here
[12:36] <Laurenceb__> odd
[12:36] <Laurenceb__> the NF of the si4432 lna isnt that bad
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[12:38] <Laurenceb__> <fiftydollarsat> have you looked at RSSI on your receiver?
[12:38] <fiftydollarsat> Darkside: Deviation was 8 or 10khz, cant quirte remember which. Apart from that its fairly standard RFM22 modem settings. I did try a lot of tweaking, but not a lot made a differance.
[12:38] <Laurenceb__> wow thats a lot of deviation
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[12:40] <fiftydollarsat> Its the LNA that makes the big differance, they dont often make much of a differance to a decent comms receiver, but to the RFM22 they do.
[12:40] <Laurenceb__> how odd
[12:40] <Laurenceb__> i wonder if RFM22 isnt stock si4432 or soemthing
[12:41] <fiftydollarsat> When you using a LNA for the RX, then the RSSI is all messed up, far too high.
[12:41] Nick change: daveake1 -> daveake
[12:41] <Laurenceb__> thats to be expected
[12:41] <Laurenceb__> as theres gain in the say
[12:42] <Laurenceb__> *way
[12:42] <Laurenceb__> hmm
[12:42] <Laurenceb__> si4432 LNA NF cant be much more than 10dB from the datasheet
[12:42] <Laurenceb__> and if it can rx at -118dBm or lower then it cant have -105 noise floor
[12:43] <Laurenceb__> something doesnt fit
[12:43] <Darkside> Laurenceb__: i was using conversions from the datasheet
[12:43] <Darkside> which could be crap
[12:43] <fiftydollarsat> Although we do get back the RSSI from the last packet received as part of the RTTY (and its sent in slow Morse too)
[12:43] <Laurenceb__> Darkside: its still too far out
[12:43] <Darkside> Laurenceb__: well i dunno
[12:43] <fiftydollarsat> So we have some idea of the lowest RSSI value for reception.
[12:43] <Laurenceb__> wait you are uploading to the sat too/
[12:44] <Laurenceb__> RFM22 on ground to RFM22 on sat?
[12:45] <fiftydollarsat> Laurenceb: Yes, of course, we have to be able to turn TX off if requested. Not that 100mW will cause much interferance to anything.
[12:45] <Laurenceb__> so tell me about the uplink
[12:45] <Laurenceb__> its RFM22 to RFM22 again?
[12:46] <Laurenceb__> what power, antenna?
[12:47] <fiftydollarsat> Uplink is RFM22 with PA. 20W is plenty into the QF helix. Although I can go as high as 60W, that ought to get all the way out to the radio horizon, 3000km.
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> wow
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> any idea of RSSI on the sat?
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[12:48] <Laurenceb__> whats the gain of the QFH?
[12:48] <Laurenceb__> - it mean noise floor on the sat
[12:49] <fiftydollarsat> I think the lowest RSSI I have seen is 52 or 53, although I think we might have an offset set, I would need to check.
[12:49] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[12:49] <Laurenceb__> so there is no LNA on the sat?
[12:50] <fiftydollarsat> The QF helix has a little gain overhead I think, but very little to none at low elevation.
[12:50] <fiftydollarsat> No LNA on SAT, we worked out in advance that one was not needed.
[12:50] <Laurenceb__> ok
[12:51] <Laurenceb__> so ~ -100dBm at the sat
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[12:52] <Laurenceb__> very interesting, thanks
[12:56] <Laurenceb__> interestingly QFH to dipole at 3000km is ~-100dBm
[12:56] <Laurenceb__> with 60W Tx
[12:56] <Laurenceb__> so i guess that roughly matches the noise floor measurements
[12:57] <Laurenceb__> results from Darkside are odd
[12:57] <Laurenceb__> like there is extra noise from somewhere
[12:57] <Laurenceb__> fiftydollarsat: have you tried measuring your RSSI on the ground?
[12:57] <Laurenceb__> with your Rx
[12:58] <Darkside> Laurenceb__: probably the uC close to the RFM22B
[12:58] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[12:58] <Laurenceb__> you seem to see an extra 15dB or so
[12:59] <fiftydollarsat> Just checked, we ended up with a setting of 2 for the RSSI offset (no ides how that happened)
[12:59] <Laurenceb__> Darkside: so you use yagi for uplink?
[13:00] <fiftydollarsat> So the RSSI reported is 8dB or a count of 16 higher than it should be,
[13:00] <Laurenceb__> due to an 8dB LNA on the front?
[13:01] <fiftydollarsat> No, the RSSI coming back from the SAT is a count of 16 higher than it should be.
[13:01] <Laurenceb__> oh
[13:01] <Laurenceb__> hmm
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[13:03] <Darkside> Laurenceb__: usually not
[13:03] <Darkside> 1/4 wave groind plane
[13:03] <Laurenceb__> oh
[13:03] <Laurenceb__> low gain
[13:03] <Darkside> and between 5W and 50W, depending on how i'm feeling at the time
[13:03] <Laurenceb__> right
[13:03] <Laurenceb__> lets look at link budget
[13:03] <Darkside> i usually start at lower power though
[13:04] <Darkside> then work up if it dosnt work
[13:04] <Darkside> i 'ping' th epayload throughout the flight to check its ok
[13:04] <Laurenceb__> yeah you seem to be at least 10dB worse than fiftydollarsat for some reason
[13:04] <Laurenceb__> theres got to be excess noise from somewhere
[13:05] <Darkside> Laurenceb__: probably bad layout or something
[13:05] <Darkside> all sorts of things
[13:05] <Darkside> it hasnt been a problm yet though
[13:05] <Laurenceb__> well RFM22 is a bit poor
[13:05] <Laurenceb__> better to do si4432/whatever on pcb
[13:05] <Darkside> in the eternal words of clarkson:
[13:05] <Laurenceb__> yeah its still a doable power
[13:05] <Darkside> POWERRRRRRRR
[13:05] <Laurenceb__> heh
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[13:16] <Fuzzylemon> hi. I'm looking at buying a radio tracker. can anyone recommend some good ones?
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[13:18] <daveake> Fuzzylemon For tracking UK HAB flights?
[13:19] <Darkside> daveake: i think he means a payload..
[13:19] <daveake> yeah you're probably right :)
[13:19] <daveake> Fuzzylemon UK or elsewhere?
[13:23] <daveake> Well, as I cba waiting, if it's UK and you want ready-made then HABDuino
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[13:24] <Laurenceb__> is B-41 just out of range?
[13:25] <Fuzzylemon> yes
[13:25] <Fuzzylemon> payloads
[13:26] <Fuzzylemon> i mean the radio receiver on the ground
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[13:27] <Fuzzylemon> i've been using a little ezcap dongle for testing but I'm looking for something more powerful
[13:28] <daveake> Funcube Dongle
[13:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Is it for portable use in actually chasing a payload or merely the tracking from a home location ?
[13:29] <Fuzzylemon> it is for portable use
[13:30] <Fuzzylemon> i love chasing payloads but so far just relied on other people to track it during flight
[13:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> There can be some benfits to using an amteur radio rig in that case as it simplifies the number of cables etc.
[13:31] <daveake> In that case, for circa £100 s/h, Icom IC-10, AOR AR-8000 or Yupiteru MVT-7200
[13:32] <daveake> or an FT790 if you can find one
[13:32] <daveake> or FT817 if you can afford one
[13:32] <Darkside> daveake: IC-R10 represent
[13:32] <daveake> ta
[13:32] <daveake> That's the one I use these days
[13:33] <daveake> and an 817 mounted in the car
[13:33] <fiftydollarsat> You might think it a little odd, but for a 'tracker' I built, it transmits in slow FM Morse the current distance and direction from home (start point).
[13:33] <fiftydollarsat> So all you need to track is a cheap HT and a map.
[13:34] <Darkside> and know morse
[13:34] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[13:34] <daveake> That's not going to be that accurate at long distances from base
[13:35] <fiftydollarsat> Yes, but slow Morse numbers dont take long to learn.
[13:36] <Darkside> also who needs the payload to transmit position at all?
[13:36] <Darkside> DF the sucker :-)
[13:36] <daveake> :)
[13:36] <Darkside> DFing balloons is good fun
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[13:37] <Darkside> did it as a foxhunting comp last year
[13:37] <Darkside> poor sods chasing didnt know it was a balloon
[13:37] <daveake> haha
[13:37] <daveake> evil
[13:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> :)
[13:37] <fiftydollarsat> Daveake: Depends what you use to calculate it, it can be accurate as handheld GPS would tell you how far from home you are.
[13:38] <LazyLeopard> Darkside: You are an Evil B*****d(tm) ;
[13:38] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[13:38] <fiftydollarsat> Try DFing a satellite, that real fun, you need a stopwatch too .................
[13:38] <gonzo_> did they know it was a moving fox?
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[13:38] <gonzo_> traditionally sats were DFed using doppler
[13:39] <fiftydollarsat> And the slow Morse disatance and direction is good to DF on, although the RTTY is better,
[13:39] <Darkside> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJnpUvikUac
[13:39] <Darkside> gonzo_: nope
[13:39] <Darkside> theres the video from it
[13:39] <Darkside> well, of them chasing
[13:39] <gonzo_> even more evil then!
[13:39] <Darkside> they ralised pretty wquickly it was moving
[13:40] <Darkside> as soon as it landed i fired up on the same frequency with 50W
[13:40] <Darkside> to make sure they found me, not the payload, which was 200m into a field
[13:41] <fiftydollarsat> Yep, but when you want a simple way to check if a SAT is where it should be in the sky, DF with a yagi and accurate recording of the time, is as good a method as any.
[13:42] <fiftydollarsat> Oh, and a compass too.
[13:43] <Darkside> heh, my compass is about 20 dgrees out :(
[13:43] <Darkside> very annoying
[13:43] <gonzo_> I assume your blip on that video was the one that was driving ahead of the track, as you knew what it was. And I like the run back and converger on the club/pub at the end!
[13:43] <Darkside> gonzo_: i wasnt in the chase
[13:43] <Darkside> i was at the landing site, waiting for it
[13:44] <Darkside> terry launched it, and then i cut it down when required
[13:44] <Darkside> had to cut it down at about 6km or so, as the ascent rate was too slow
[13:44] <gonzo_> I've seen df'ing of uhf sats to find the orbital slot of a sat. But not seen it done for leo's
[13:44] <gonzo_> a useful method is timing the AOS on the horison
[13:45] <gonzo_> and los
[13:45] <gonzo_> how close to the targeted landing point did it actually land?
[13:46] <Darkside> within about 2km or so
[13:46] <Darkside> i think
[13:46] <Darkside> it wasnt too critical
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[13:46] <gonzo_> you have an abundance of not a lot over there!
[13:46] <Darkside> lol
[13:46] <Darkside> well this area wasnt the best for that
[13:47] <Darkside> powerlines, fields, houses
[13:47] <Darkside> th fun part about the launch was they weren't dfing the telemetry
[13:47] <Darkside> i had a morse beacon brlow the main telemetry
[13:47] <Darkside> and the main telemetry was offset
[13:48] <Darkside> as in, the lat/long were offset by a function of altitude
[13:48] <aadamson> so what happened to B-41? Just getting caught back up on it's progress.
[13:48] <fiftydollarsat> gonzo: Early on the TLE for the SAT was quite a way out, we were not sure which Norad object it was, or even if it was large enough to track.
[13:48] <fiftydollarsat> So I got out he yagi to get a compass\time fix on it.
[13:49] <Laurenceb__> you could try fitting to the doppler
[13:49] <fiftydollarsat> I do that as well.
[13:50] <gonzo_> there used to be an amsat challenge, where someone uplinks an accurate freq signal, and you have to DF them from their downlink, using doppler
[13:50] <gonzo_> as close as it ever gets to contests on sats
[13:52] <craag> ha gonzo_ that's a good one
[13:52] <gonzo_> never done one, but think I'd stand a good chance now
[13:52] <fiftydollarsat> Got to go to a mountain to check how long a GPS takes to lock.
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Hopefully F4UGF was looking for B-41 it would have been circling around him, but nithing appears to have been heard :-(
[13:53] <gonzo_> the other one was they would uplink a gradually weakening signal, and you had to try and rx it down as low as poss
[13:53] <gonzo_> why a mountain?
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[14:11] <UpuWork> ping Joel_re
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[14:55] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: do you think B-41 is still alive?
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[15:00] <LeoBodnar> no idea! :D
[15:01] <Laurenceb__> we need APRS over france ;D
[15:02] <gonzo_> is aprs not legal there?
[15:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The battery was charging and the temp was rising then just nothing, it was still in plenty of range at the last transmission so ...
[15:05] <Laurenceb__> isnt it an aprs optimised antenni?
[15:06] <nats`> gonzo_ not over france
[15:06] <nats`> you can only have ground APRS
[15:06] <nats`> not airborn
[15:08] <eroomde> http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kxldz31eZQ1qaukck.png
[15:10] <fsphil> I knew that
[15:12] <mfa298> the challenge is always making the blue slice larger and the red slice smaller
[15:13] <mfa298> or trying to get people to reckognise that the red slice even exists.
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[15:16] <daveake> So there's a slice fornot knowing that the red slice exists?
[15:17] <mfa298> I think some people mistakenly switch the red and green sections over
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[15:19] <mfa298> probably linked to various instances of https://xkcd.com/386/
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[15:29] <nats`> http://f4haj.net/2013/03/16/evolution-reglementaire/ <= new french regs for airborn radio [french link]
[15:29] <fsphil> good or bad?
[15:30] <nats`> it simplify the understanding of the law
[15:30] <nats`> cocnerning the deletion of the class 1 and 3
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[15:30] <nats`> + they clarify the airborn radio
[15:31] <nats`> by saying to check the other law
[15:31] <nats`> those law talking only about airborn radio -_-
[15:31] <nats`> so seems a little complex at the moment
[15:31] <fsphil> not really clarifying it
[15:32] <nats`> yes and no it clarifies it for airborn frequencies
[15:32] <nats`> but not for HAM frequencies
[15:32] <fsphil> ah
[15:33] <nats`> I think they will correct that in an other tens of years :D
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[15:33] <nats`> I'll try to read the complete text and make a summary
[15:33] <nats`> as far as I can understand law text -_-
[15:39] <nats`> seems that for balloon you can transmit on HAM band only if they are allowed to HAM as primary user
[15:39] <nats`> (don't know if my sentence is clear)
[15:39] <fsphil> tis
[15:39] <nats`> but that's only for the balloon not for other aero[whatever]
[15:39] <fsphil> I suspect if they allow it here, it will be the same
[15:40] <fsphil> which means we probably won't have access to 70cm, beyond the ISM exceptions
[15:40] <mfa298> still primary bands is better than no bands
[15:40] <nats`> but you need to declare it to the DGAC and ARCEP/ANFR
[15:40] <fsphil> which is somewhat ironic
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[15:40] <fsphil> if they make the 2m band a bit bigger then that'll help
[15:41] <nats`> http://www.chasseurs-ballons.org/?p=848 ..... seems people use APRS on balloon
[15:43] <cm13g09> afternoon mfa298
[15:43] <nats`> http://www.radioamateurs-france.fr/le-lacher-de-ballon-radioamateur-f6kbg-11-aura-bien-lieu-le-samedi-11-janvier-2014-a-10h-12203/
[15:43] <mfa298> afternoon cm13g09
[15:43] <nats`> oky many people are using APRS on balloon in france
[15:43] <cm13g09> mfa298: see my PM ;)
[15:43] <nats`> LeoBodnar maybe it'll be ok (since you're already outlaw) :D
[15:43] <UpuWork> offically nats` I think its not allowed
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[15:45] <nats`> UpuWork I think so but many blog post are some project made with national laboratories
[15:45] <nats`> .....
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[15:45] <nats`> and basically crossing the border of a country with a balloon is not allowed too
[15:45] <nats`> at least in france :)
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[15:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tell that to the French Sondes :-))
[15:46] <nats`> yep :D
[15:46] <nats`> but french law clearly state you need to have the autorisation of all the country in the balloon path :D
[15:48] <daveake1> I bet they don't care about France being invaded by balloons from other countries :p
[15:49] <nats`> yep
[15:49] <nats`> maybe making APRS LB would be cool
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[15:49] <nats`> just be sure to not drift under
[15:49] <nats`> you're near the AM airplane BAND :D
[15:50] <tweetBot> @AnthonyStirk: Write up of my new tracker by @regspb http://t.co/PfeVznf1wL #ukhas
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[16:02] <Lunar_LanderU> Anthony: nice!
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[16:45] <x-f> uu4jlm_Valeryi, hiya, how's the situation down there?
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[17:02] <DL7AD> x-f: good afternoon
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[17:04] <x-f> good afternoon/evening, DL7AD
[17:04] <DL7AD> :D indeed
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[17:28] <fiftydollarsat> Just got back from the mountain. When the MTK3329 GPS has good sight of the horizion, hot start fix aquistion from power down, is a reliable 1-2 seconds.
[17:28] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[17:28] <Laurenceb__> where are you ?
[17:29] <fiftydollarsat> Me ? In my workshop (Cardiff)
[17:30] <Laurenceb__> ah cardiff ok
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[17:30] <Laurenceb__> so you have a sat in orbit?
[17:30] <fiftydollarsat> The hills and valleys around here are very useful for LOS radio testing.
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[17:31] <fiftydollarsat> Yes, been there almost 4 months now, still working or at least it was this morning.
[17:31] <aadamson> so MT's are ok, but the problem is their current usage, it's very high for a small device.
[17:31] <aadamson> http://inmotion.pt/documentation/diydrones/MediaTek_MT3329/mediatek_3329.pdf
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[17:32] <aadamson> I have a bunch of them and have used the in other projects, that don't have a current/power requirement
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[17:32] <aadamson> YOu can also use a small (really small) coin cell to provide a backup for them if you want
[17:33] <aadamson> also note, by default they have *pinning* turned on and you'll probably want to disable that depending on the application
[17:33] <aadamson> somewhere I have the code to do that it's not obvious how you do it
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[17:34] <aadamson> There is a v2.0 firmware that exists as well, not sure if all hardware is compatible with it, and I don't know/haven't looked to see if I can find it or how to flash it
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[17:34] <fiftydollarsat> Yes, agreed, the MTKs have a high current requirement, for normal full time on use, but if you take a fix every 30 seconds or so, average current consumption is only around 3mA
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[17:36] <aadamson> That's about 2x the continous current of the MAX-7C, and applying the same logic, that would be down in the uA range on it. And from a spec standpoint, it's a much more capable listener
[17:36] <fiftydollarsat> Laurenceb: Its called $50SAT, easy to find just Google it
[17:36] <aadamson> the hotstart is pretty similar
[17:36] <aadamson> http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/MAX-7_ProductSummary_(GPS.G7-HW-11014).pdf
[17:37] <craag> except it's buggy
[17:37] <craag> :(
[17:37] <aadamson> craag, which? the ublox?
[17:37] <craag> aadamson: Yeah ublox 7 hotstart
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[17:37] <craag> aadamson: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/2.png
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[17:37] <craag> ^^ That was ublox 7 hotstart positions
[17:38] <aadamson> that is *hotstart* meaning that the backup was still powered, and I'm assuming pausing some delay for the hotstart to take effect
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[17:38] <craag> It reports that it's got a fix back, when it actually hasn't.
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[17:39] <fiftydollarsat> Although the real turn off for the MTK for PICO stuff is the weight, 5.78g
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[17:40] <craag> Tom SP9UOB uses it and waits 30s after each hotstart to get a good fix, but actually drains more energy than jsut leaving it in 1hz psm
[17:40] <aadamson> ah... well, that indeed is a problem, any new firmware for it?
[17:41] <aadamson> http://www.u-blox.com/en/download/documents-a-resources/u-blox-7-gps-modules-resources.html - nope
[17:42] <craag> Not that I've heard of. I think leo has had some communication with ublox, and they mentioned that cutting the main power abruptly might interrupt its housekeeping tasks or something
[17:42] <craag> I'm only a spectator, haven't played with it myself
[17:42] <aadamson> the two other huge nails in the coffin on the MT's are only 3v3 voltage and only up to 18km altitude
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> aadamson: The latter is easy enough to fix.
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> 15km bit of coax, switchable. :)
[17:43] <aadamson> hehe... :)
[17:43] <aadamson> any theories on B-41?
[17:44] <aadamson> guess it and an airplane are making friends or something
[17:47] Nick change: K3YLE -> KyleYankan
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[17:49] <fiftydollarsat> So in the Hot Fix for the various Ublox GPSs does not work ?
[17:50] <fiftydollarsat> Hot Fix in the sense that the backup battery pin has power, but the main power is shut off.
[17:51] <aadamson> then main power restored, wait for notice of fix, but don't have a valid one it appears
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[18:50] <UKC_WTM5> Quick question, if I have a 1.2kg payload and use a 36 inch Spherachute it will slow it down to ~ 5m/s according to http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Parachutes.html . Can anyone here confirm this?
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[19:02] <Lunar_Lander> hello everyone
[19:02] <amell> crying shame on B-41, waiting for B-42
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[19:08] <g0pai_ian> UKC_WTMT: according to the calculator the velocity at sea level should be 5.44m/s
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[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> I'd like to share something I saw earlier with you
[19:13] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/g/l/b/5yv61y-k56lhr-niqo/20140319185609.jpeg
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[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> hi DL7AD
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[19:23] <UKC_WTM5_> <g0pai_ian> : Cheers, is that an acceptable speed?
[19:24] <g0pai_ian> Couldn't see anything for the sunset.
[19:25] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander
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[19:25] <g0pai_ian> I'm not the one to ask, but seem to think that 4.5 to 6.5 is an acceptable window. 5.5m/s is pretty good. 6.5m/s is 14mph
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[19:26] Nick change: UKC_WTM5 -> UKC_WTM5__
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[19:31] <mfa298> UKC_WTM5__: again I'm not really the person to ask either but for a heavy payload I'd probably want to aim for slower rather than faster descent. Especially as it's possibly the balloon won't burst cleanly so you might have 1.2kg + balloon coming down (so that 5.5m/s could turn into something faster) do you want that weight landing on your car/greenhouse/head at >5m/s?
[19:34] <UKC_WTM5__> Yeah, I was advised by others to keep it between 5-6
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[19:34] <UKC_WTM5__> But I've emailed Dave just now - let's see what he says
[19:35] <amell> Q: how is a cutdown normally done? what device is used?
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[19:36] <aadamson> usually a small resistor or something similar (nichrome wire) etc that you put a large voltage/current across and *melt it*
[19:36] <aadamson> there are various ways to do it... google it I'm sure there are pictures
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[19:39] <mikestir> anyone done multiple downlinks with a single transmitter?
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[19:39] <mikestir> I'm thinking something along the lines of doing the modulation in software and upconverting it as a block
[19:40] <mfa298> amell: I think most of the sucessful cutdowns (when people have used them) have been some form of heating (nicrome wire/ resistor) to melt a piece of cord.
[19:40] <amell> ok ta
[19:41] <amell> wondered if explosive cutdown is ever used
[19:41] <mfa298> I think a few people have although I'm not sure they've been as successful and there's a bit of extra danger with them.
[19:42] <mfa298> mikestir: I think the dual aprs/exotic mode that Leo's done is with a single tx but not simultaneous
[19:43] Action: mfa298 has now achieved method #3 of doing rtty from a pi without using the uart.
[19:43] <mikestir> the biggest drawback I think is likely to be getting good IQ balance to suppress the image, and the need for a linear PA
[19:43] <mikestir> although admittedly it's not exactly high power
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[20:23] <cn8dn> slt please frequenct b-41
[20:23] <aadamson> 434.500
[20:23] <cn8dn> merci
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[20:24] <aadamson> it hasn't been heard since this morning, but it was at or about that frequency yesterday contestia 8/1000 is it's mode beacon every 4 mins
[20:24] <aadamson> duh... left
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[20:40] <chrisstubbs> So ovivo has closed down already, so much for my free HAB data :(
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[20:40] <amell> who is CEDARS?
[20:41] <mfa298> ovivo going, that seems to have been sudden
[20:42] <mfa298> not sure I've actually got my £20 out of them :(
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[20:42] <mfa298> it was only a couple of weeks ago they were saying the deal had gotten even better
[20:42] <amell> mfa298: it must have been a ridiculous business model
[20:43] <chrisstubbs> yeah, I only used it a couple of times to test it
[20:43] <LeoBodnar> "...mobile internet for life"
[20:44] <LeoBodnar> it was a short but happy one
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[20:46] <mfa298> it was a slightly annoying service if you were using it to download files and browse at the same time, last time I did that I kept getting advert redirects and never got to the page I wanted to see
[20:46] <mfa298> looks like I'll go back to giving money to three/giffgaff
[20:47] Nick change: Maxell_ -> Maxell
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[21:17] <Laurenceb> B-41 is dead?
[21:20] <amell> appears so :(
[21:21] <DL7AD> Laurenceb: i dont think b-41 is dead
[21:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> Well I suspect so, but if the prediction runs correct then its back up tomorrow around midday on the Northern French Coast http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-41_20140318/Actual-Prediction-201403190600.jpg
[21:21] <DL7AD> theres just no proper station which can receive it
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[21:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh b***r see what you mean chrisstubbs :-(
[21:27] <DL7AD> www.isleoflying.com the page tells the balloon is still flying ;)
[21:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> It probably is!
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[21:30] <DL7AD> im confused about why there are so many receivers in the range of B-41 but not receiving. i made the same obversation at every B balloon making contestia. i'm convinced much stations dont know they have to switch to contestia manually.
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[21:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> If they turn on the RSID you don't even have to do that RSID will do it for you.
[21:31] <DL7AD> and if they dont?
[21:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> then it can't do anything :-(
[21:32] <DL7AD> exactly. i dont think they even know RsID when they dont know to switch over the mode.
[21:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> The simplest would be to tell them to hit the "RxID" switch top right, the default settings I think then come into play and will switch you
[21:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> plus RSID allows the AFC to work to correct tuning errors
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[21:34] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: i wanna ask some persons from which i could expect they would have received it, why they did not get any packet.
[21:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup it would be nice to find out, we maybe missing something obvious.
[21:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> that of course assumes they know why they didn't receive it ....
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[21:43] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: mails sent
[21:44] <cm13g09> top tip for people using GSM backup trackers... don't rely on EE ;)
[21:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> What have they done then ?
[21:46] <db_g6gzh> installed gremlins in their network apparently
[21:47] <db_g6gzh> https://twitter.com/EE/status/446369338388254720/photo/1
[21:47] <Lunar_Lander> hi nosebleedkt
[21:48] <Lunar_Lander> how are you today?
[21:52] <DL7AD> cm13g09: what does EE mean?
[21:53] <cm13g09> DL7AD: EE are a mobile telecoms provider in the UK
[21:53] <DL7AD> cm13g09: ah well... :D i dont know them
[21:53] <cm13g09> DL7AD: Used to be Orange and T-Mobile
[21:55] <mfa298> So perigreen falcons on vodaphone, gremlins in EE, ovivo shutdown, I'm glad my main mobile plan is on three.
[21:55] <mfa298> they've just got a dancing shetland pony and that doesn't cause outages.
[21:55] <ibanezmatt13> Tesco mobile ftw :P
[21:56] <edusupport> EE supposed to mean everything everywhere not today
[21:58] <LazyLeopard> There's an invisible "B" for "broken" between the two "E"s...
[21:58] <DL7AD> cm13g09: and whats the best provider in the uk measured on quality?
[22:00] <amell> EE = NN = Nothing Nowhere
[22:00] <cm13g09> DL7AD: they're pretty awful :P
[22:00] <cm13g09> amell: that's a wonderful truism that doesn't mean what you think it does ;)
[22:00] <DL7AD> cm13g09: all providers?
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[22:01] <cm13g09> DL7AD: Vodafone can't seem to keep their network 100% working (it's always broken somewhere), and they can't keep pricing sane
[22:02] <cm13g09> EE rarely have issues, but when they do they're inexcusable cross-network failures.
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[22:02] <cm13g09> O2 fails to have the coverage one would expect.....
[22:02] <DL7AD> cm13g09: rofl.... in germany vodafone is probably one of the best networks next to t-mobile
[22:03] <cm13g09> DL7AD: that sounds like what happens when you apply German efficiency to *anything*
[22:03] <cm13g09> it works, and remarkably well!
[22:03] <amell> I find Three surprisingly good
[22:03] <mfa298> I've had very few issues with Three
[22:04] <cm13g09> Three are fine, until they break things :P
[22:04] <amell> made me jump when a 4G symbol came up on my iPhone 5.
[22:04] <amell> I didn't think they had the spectrum for iPhone 5 compatibility
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[22:04] <mfa298> I've seen three break very little in the ~10 years I've used them and I've been getting good speeds from them all through that time
[22:05] <amell> likewise
[22:05] <cm13g09> my fundamental issue with Three, was their inability to keep a call going across masts.... repeatedly.
[22:05] <amell> Just stay still...
[22:05] <cm13g09> amell: that's hard when you're on a bus/in a car
[22:05] <amell> not really. just park up or get off ;)
[22:05] <DL7AD> never got a disc at my provider vodafone here in germany ^^
[22:06] <cm13g09> amell: again, not always possible
[22:07] <amell> what is APJHAB, is it a real balloon? seems to have been floating for a very long time.
[22:10] <mfa298> 479m (which looks to be what APJHAB is at) could well be ground level there
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[22:12] <mfa298> although I'm not sure I totally trust that apjhab, it looks to be over water being tracked by someone over water
[22:14] <mfa298> although the receiver callsign does match tha area
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[22:19] Action: mfa298 wonders if Labours cost saving plans included replacing Milliband with a broken record player.
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[22:29] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: got the first answer from F6HTJ which i think is the best station down there. he wasnt at home
[22:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Understandable!
[22:30] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: from F5VKV i know he has mountains in the south direction. and he got online too late.
[22:30] <fsphil> what's up this evening
[22:30] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: and i dont know if F5VNF know how to receive contestia balloons
[22:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Maybe we need a wiki page/change to cover using RSID/RxID and the other modes.
[22:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its a shame that RSID/RxID can't be easily added to the designs as it allows AFC working as well :(
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[22:38] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: theres one solution. activate it by default when starting up dlfldigi
[22:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not sure if that option is available at present, and I gather that there are problems with the current code release ..
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[23:24] <mikestir> I could tell you a UDP joke but you might not get it
[23:26] Action: craag is trying to think of a good ipv4 joke, but they're all gone.
[23:26] <SpeedEvil> I could tell you an ARP joke, but it borders on unfunny.
[23:27] <mikestir> lol craag
[23:27] <mfa298> I could tell you a multicast joke but you'll have to join the right group to get it.
[23:27] <mikestir> I'm going to tell you a TCP joke and I'm going to keep telling you it until you get it
[23:27] <fsphil> packet up you lot
[23:28] <gonzo_> I get a sync-ing feeling
[23:28] <mfa298> it's a syn to let good jokes/puns go to waste
[23:28] <cm13g09> groan.....
[23:28] <cm13g09> stop it, the lot of it
[23:29] <cm13g09> Instead read this: https://www.sparkfun.com/news/1428
[23:29] <gonzo_> wee need to keep these puns in check, sum times
[23:29] <mikestir> a udp packet walked into a bar without a checksum. no one cared
[23:30] <cm13g09> fsphil: had it right
[23:30] <gonzo_> how many of us are still lookingat datagrams for jokes?
[23:31] <craag> cm13g09: ouch
[23:31] <craag> what a trademark
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[23:31] <mikestir> lol. fluke trademarked yellow DVMs?
[23:31] <mikestir> haha
[23:31] <amell> lol good one
[23:32] <cm13g09> yep....
[23:32] DL7AD_ (~quassel@p5B0973F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[23:32] <cm13g09> it's a bit of an "OUCH"
[23:34] <mikestir> that's possibly worse than apple's rounded corners
[23:34] <mikestir> no one buys a cheap chinese DVM expecting it to be as accurate as a fluke
[23:34] <cm13g09> mm
[23:35] <amell> think i need a new mm (searches ebay)
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[23:35] <amell> also looking for cheap rg213
[23:35] <mfa298> and apples "slide to unlock" which we'de never seen before http://www.netbooknews.com/wp-content/2011/10/slide-to-unlock-550x402.jpg
[23:36] <mikestir> amell: nevada radio are reasonbly priced for the proper RG213U
[23:36] <mikestir> reasonably*
[23:36] <amell> nevada came up in my searches.
[23:36] <mfa298> I'd be wary of buying coax on evay unless you're sure you can really trust the seller
[23:36] <amell> how big a drill bit is RG213?
[23:36] <mikestir> there is a lot of RG213 "TM"
[23:37] <mikestir> which may or may not be anything like actual RG213
[23:37] <mikestir> 10mm
[23:37] <amell> got an 8mm long bit. I guess if i wiggle it a bit I should get 10mm
[23:37] <mikestir> in the mortar course yes it will be fine
[23:38] <mikestir> I think my long bit is 9mm and it was ok
[23:38] <mfa298> I think the TM is similar in terms of loss and a little bit cheaper but the dimensions might be slightly different.
[23:38] <mikestir> they say
[23:38] <mfa298> I think my reel of rg213 was T rather than U
[23:39] <amell> 116 quid for 100m? holy crapola
[23:39] <mfa298> that's about right
[23:39] <mikestir> it's like a hosepipe. what did you expect?
[23:39] <amell> only need 25m
[23:39] <mikestir> there's a reason gypos rob this stuff you know
[23:40] <mikestir> nevada sells it in smaller lengths
[23:40] <mfa298> some places will sell lengths of it (maplin probably will) but you might find it's not much cheaper buying a length like that
[23:40] <amell> yeah gypos cleared a duct at my work. shame it was all fibre. idiots.
[23:41] <mfa298> back in the days of 10Base-2 networking I think there wasn't much in it between 30m of rg58 and a 100m drum of rg58.
[23:41] <amell> what did thick wire ethernet use?
[23:41] <amell> is that 10b2?
[23:41] <amell> vampire taps etc.
[23:42] <mikestir> http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/cables-leads-plugs/antenna-cable/nevada-rg213u---per-length
[23:42] <mikestir> 25m is £32
[23:42] <amell> can i use RG58?
[23:43] <mikestir> not over 25m if you want to have any signal left
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[23:44] <mfa298> If you got a habamp and put it right at the antenna rg58 might be ok. But getting the habamp that close to the antenna may not be so easy (you need to get suitable power to it)
[23:44] <gonzo_> unless you put an lna / habamp at the antenna end
[23:44] <gonzo_> then you could use lore lossy coax (I use sat TV coax for rx)
[23:44] <amell> antenna will be outside, so prefer not to have any electricals there
[23:44] <mikestir> amell: you can power a preamp over the coax
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> I am going off vague recollections - but isn't the habamps output capacitively coupled?
[23:45] <mfa298> amell: I think the thicknet was something like rg8 - similar size to rg213
[23:45] <gonzo_> box it carefully and an LNA should be fune outside
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> So, you'd just need to add a suitable inductor at both ends of the cable, and you're done for phantom power
[23:45] <amell> 10base5 it was
[23:45] <mikestir> the habamp has a jumper option for powering it with a bias tee
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> mikestir: or that
[23:45] <gonzo_> they used rg8 for the ling runs/backbone, but rg58 for the local net
[23:46] <mikestir> but yes, RG58 with a masthead amplifier and bias tee would be fine, but probably more expensive than 25m of RG213
[23:46] <amell> I did enjoy localtalk cabling.
[23:47] <amell> you could buy a 16 port localtalk packet switch
[23:47] <mikestir> and if you do run RG213 out then you are all set if you get your ham license
[23:47] <gonzo_> 25mtrs will have a loss pf about 4db ish even for good RG213
[23:48] <amell> the aerial will be about 50cm from next doors tv aerial. problem?
[23:48] <gonzo_> so an lna at the ant is still worth doung
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> 50cm will somewhat detune the radiation pattern
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> but should still be usable
[23:49] <gonzo_> if you want to TX as well, then a straight cable run to the ant is easier to do. But I prefer to put a twin feeder arrangement in with a changeover relay and LNA at the antanna still
[23:49] <amell> it won't damage their TV or signal if i did TX?
[23:49] <gonzo_> proably will
[23:50] <mfa298> or if you don't want the lna/habamp at the antenna and want to reduce the loss in the coax look at soem westflex 103 but that will cost more than the rg213
[23:50] <amell> how far away does it need to be to be safe
[23:50] <gonzo_> if you can get your ant will up above their rx ant it would be better
[23:50] <mikestir> LDF4/50
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Depends what you mean by safe.
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> It will depend on the frequency rejection they have at 470MHz
[23:50] <gonzo_> if their antenna is a pre-amped/active one, then it's all bad news
[23:50] <amell> safe i.e. does not impact their reception
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> For a poor rejection active antenna - >50m likely
[23:51] <gonzo_> (inject it with salt water and let it rot. Then you can 'help' them buy putting a startightr passive one on for them)
[23:52] <amell> 50m? yikes. I am not going to get 50m away from all other antennas
[23:52] <gonzo_> lfd4-50 you would not need a mast!
[23:52] <mikestir> when I was on the CB back in the 90s I had to fit a filter at the house across the road
[23:52] <mikestir> for 4W (cough) at 27 MHz
[23:52] <mikestir> they had a rubbish preamp
[23:53] <gonzo_> though now tv has gone digital, TVI is less obvious. It just stops working, rather than the giove away herringbone patters
[23:53] <mikestir> yeah. and half the time these wide open preamps are unnecessary
[23:53] <mikestir> just installed by aerial installers that don't know what they're doing
[23:54] <mikestir> pick the highest gain amp assuming it must be the best
[23:54] <gonzo_> but if you put an antenna up, leave it for 6mths before txing, otherwise you will get complaints about all sorts of things
[23:54] <amell> good idea.
[23:54] <amell> infertility complaints etc.
[23:55] <amell> just realised i have a kalpana EPS-1500 in the attic. Wonder what its worth now :)
[23:55] <mikestir> I'm being summoned to feed the baby. gn all
[23:55] <gonzo_> I had to take my cb ant down (parental pressure) after the neigbours came around shouting about tvi. It was a VT problem on a bbc prog. After a few mins they put up the appologie caption, but I was still req to take the blame to paccify the neigbours
[23:57] <amell> in antenna instructions it says coil the cable. Is it actually possible to coil rg213u like that
[23:58] <gonzo_> amell, an rgsb interference guy (gave advice to members) was telling me an investigation a station had a knock non the door from an old lady complaining about interference and she went mad and called the police,council anyone.
[23:58] <mfa298> The best methid I saw once was to stick the mast and antenna up but no coax. When the neighbours complain about interference get them to agree that the cable is important, then ask them if they see any coax on your antenna.
[23:59] <amell> people really kick off about this stuff? beginning to wonder if i should have got an X30 instead of an X50
[23:59] <gonzo_> turned out she lived miles away and they tried to explain that it was not possible with amateur power levels
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[23:59] <fsphil> hehe, launch planned for saturday. so natrually they're forecasting a chance of snow
[00:00] --- Thu Mar 20 2014