highaltitude.log.20140317

[00:03] <amell> what freq are you looking at?
[00:04] <amell> battery 2.09V now. going fast
[00:05] <amell> i think this balloon might go off the air very soon
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[00:11] <Joekull> i am seeing resembling RTTY at 434.105
[00:11] <amell> 470hz shift?
[00:11] <Joekull> but I don't know the calibration of the RTL dongle
[00:11] <amell> I had that problem too.
[00:12] <Joekull> well... the signal is so close to the noise floor that it is difficult to assert
[00:13] <amell> this will be under 2V in the next 5 min.
[00:13] <amell> Not sure when it will cut out
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[00:19] <Joekull> Sorry, I'll 've tried...
[00:19] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
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[00:31] <amell> 1.92V
[00:32] <amell> <makes sign of the cross>
[00:33] <Joekull> RS010 will be the last to have seen it: perfect suspect :)
[00:35] <KT5WYX> Putting up with the lassen because I have a couple left... starting to wonder if it's worth it. Will it ever lock? ever?
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[00:36] <G8APZ> G-02 about to leave France into Switzerland. Shortage of listeners further south
[00:37] <amell> G8APZ: battery appears to be about to die anyway.
[00:38] <g0pai_ian> We will need to get in touch with the engine manufacturer so they can report for the next eight hours of flight after the battery dies . . .
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[00:40] <Joekull> Mind you, the Swiss have recently voted against "mass imigration".... I hope the border patrols won't shot it :)
[00:40] <amell> sensible people.
[00:40] <G8APZ> amell yes.. a very good flight IMHO
[00:41] <G8APZ> Joekull... are you receiving it?
[00:41] <Joekull> just made it in Swiss Jura
[00:41] <G8APZ> g0pai_ian something that smells like fish is usually fish!
[00:42] <G8APZ> I see that Venice is voting on separation from Italy!!
[00:42] <G8APZ> G-02 made it to HB land
[00:43] <G8APZ> I wonder if rather than using battery on continuous RTTY, a sleep period of 3 second blips like LeoBodnar uses would extend it significantly
[00:44] <amell> bedtime for me
[00:44] <amell> night
[00:44] <Joekull> no, sorry.... I would need to learn about all this with a strong clear signal first I think, e.g. with a tracker of myself
[00:44] <G8APZ> amell Goodnight... think about Diamond X-50 on the chimney!!
[00:44] <Joekull> good night amell
[00:45] <amell> all the stuff now ordered.
[00:45] <G8APZ> Joekull 70cm RX and a simple antenna suffices
[00:45] <amell> I will proudly jut above all my neighbours, with a fine upstanding mast.
[00:45] <g0pai_ian> 1.813V last heard I guess. Gnite all.
[00:45] <G8APZ> amell a decent view of horizon and a reasonable antenna is all that is reqd... no preamps really
[00:45] <G8APZ> GN Ian
[00:46] <amell> 1.771V last heard :)
[00:46] <G8APZ> amell you would be surprised how small an X-50 looks above ground
[00:46] <amell> the one i ordered is a clone, i think, but it is 1.7m
[00:47] <amell> I have 4.5m of pole and bracket. so I should reach 10m AGL.
[00:47] <G8APZ> OK I think I paid about £59 in Dec
[00:47] <amell> and complaints from the neighbours possibly.
[00:47] <g0pai_ian> It's like tree branches they look awful small until they land in the garden.
[00:47] <G8APZ> height is not so important as having a view to horizon
[00:47] <G8APZ> amell tell them to go and f%$^ themselves!!
[00:48] <g0pai_ian> For a bit of fun, you need to ask your neighbour if they are suffering any interference from your transmitter. Word will quickly spread and you will have all sorts knocking your door. Imagination is a wonderful quality.
[00:48] <G8APZ> they wouldnt see it as any different to a support pole for a TV antenna
[00:49] <G8APZ> Ian planning objections from 200miles away too!!
[00:49] <amell> 1.729
[00:49] <amell> I wonder if it will shut down when battery = PLL loop volts
[00:49] <Joekull> amell: are you on the spacenear.us map?
[00:49] <amell> yes
[00:50] <G8APZ> hard to know... not sure if G-02 uses buck to bump up volts
[00:50] <Joekull> may I ask where?
[00:50] <amell> near elsworth
[00:50] <g0pai_ian> This battery just won't like down it seems. This is presumably what's left of 2x 1.5 Lithium cells? I would think it would be using boost, not buck?
[00:50] <amell> cambridgeshire. go back on G-02 track, probably the 2nd station from launch
[00:51] <G8APZ> Ian ... I don't know TBH
[00:52] <G8APZ> amell as a word of encouragement, I have a loft window... first tracking was done with a folded dipole from an old Tonna 21 ele on a bit of wood stuck out of loft window... managed to track stuff as far as the Dutch islands
[00:54] <Joekull> amell: ha, yeah, found you station on the map, yep, you managed to track it for a decent while. Congrats!
[00:54] <G8APZ> 10mW goes a long way in the air... in my French QTH IN95ol I heard a HAB at 37km alt at a range of nearly 800km
[00:55] <G8APZ> Joekull have you a 70cm RX?
[00:57] <G8APZ> RS010 is doing a great job tracking... pity he's not here to get the kudos!
[00:58] <Joekull> G8APZ : I have just bought an RTL-SDR dongle, I am using the antenna it came with (similar to those on FM radios)
[00:58] <G8APZ> 1.606v and still ackling!!
[00:58] <amell> wow. battery is under the pll
[00:58] <g0pai_ian> PLL voltage well below battery voltage now. It's certainly squeezing out the most it can get. I guess RS010 station is automatically tracking
[00:59] <g0pai_ian> That would have been a lot more difficult to do a few years ago.
[00:59] <amell> 1.574
[00:59] <G8APZ> Joekull I have one... tiny 10cm antenna! Make a Ground plane... about 16cm of centre of coax with the braid divided into 4 lengths of approx 16cm
[01:00] <amell> something we don't understand about this battery, are you sure its 2 x 1.5v li?
[01:00] <G8APZ> Li would be best choice and must be at least 2
[01:01] <g0pai_ian> I think that's a question that needs asked of the builder, to satisfy our corporate curiosity. We should have a sweepstake on the final voltage. It must be using up a lot of smoke though.
[01:02] <G8APZ> joekull that is the antenna most habs use ... just a GP with 16.5cm of centre and 4 radials
[01:02] <G8APZ> 80mA on TX I think for the SI chip
[01:03] <Joekull> G8APZ: like the one described for TX on payload on the UKHAS website?
[01:03] <G8APZ> I think so
[01:04] <G8APZ> the main thing is to get a small antenna sited somewhere where it sees the horizon.... then you receive HABs easily
[01:05] <G8APZ> I was on G-02 from launch at 14:00 to 17:00 - a total of 1030 packets of telemetry!
[01:06] <amell> 1.487
[01:06] <amell> sheesh
[01:06] <amell> 1.471
[01:06] <G8APZ> joekull It would take you 15 minutes to strip coax end to 16.5cm for a quick antenna!
[01:06] <amell> I don't think we have 15 minutes!
[01:07] <G8APZ> amell no probably not!!
[01:07] <amell> my money is on it dying at 1.35V
[01:07] <G8APZ> a cheap solution though!!
[01:08] <Joekull> soory, I don't have a coax...
[01:08] <G8APZ> amell if you have an old TV antenna (yagi) it will almost certainly receive on 434
[01:08] <fsphil> yikes it's still going
[01:08] <G8APZ> Hi fsphil!
[01:08] <fsphil> morning :)
[01:09] <G8APZ> G/ON/F/HB
[01:09] <amell> I think G02 finally died
[01:09] <G8APZ> 23:51 last fix?
[01:10] <amell> 3 min since last packet
[01:10] <fsphil> spoke too soon
[01:10] <amell> heh
[01:10] <G8APZ> 01:09
[01:10] <amell> 1.4V
[01:10] <G8APZ> it will be struggling at less than 1.5v!
[01:11] <G8APZ> time for solar recharge!!
[01:11] <amell> dead now you reckon?
[01:11] <fsphil> lovely steady float
[01:11] <G8APZ> yes.. about 5km all the way... slow ascent and float
[01:11] <amell> good lord
[01:12] <amell> 1.345V
[01:12] <fsphil> hah, another update
[01:12] <G8APZ> LOL
[01:12] <amell> the loon that refused to die
[01:12] <G8APZ> HABs are addictive!
[01:12] <amell> 1.3V
[01:13] <amell> 1.284V
[01:13] <G8APZ> fast fading volts
[01:14] <amell> 1.261V
[01:14] <aadamson> it's thats a 1.8v verison it probably had a buck/boost and it could go down as low as .8 or lower
[01:14] <amell> really? Oh. i'll go to bed now then!
[01:14] <aadamson> the pll voltage is your key, it's a 1.65 so it's a 1.8v design most likely
[01:15] <aadamson> but then again, it may not be a boost, it may just be a buck and so it will die much sooner in the voltage range
[01:15] <amell> joekull: you might have time to build your new antenna
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[01:17] <Joekull> my wife gave me a weird look... wondering what keeps me up at 02:17...
[01:17] <G8APZ> Joekull We all get that!!
[01:18] <G8APZ> It's me or your hobby!!
[01:20] <Joekull> That balloon just doesn't want to let go! Courageous thing!
[01:20] <G8APZ> almost 11.5 hrs flying
[01:20] <G8APZ> Foil party balloon!!
[01:21] <aadamson> for that length of time, the winds must have been really light at altitude, cuz it should have gone much farther with more traditional winds at altitude
[01:21] <Joekull> He or H2?
[01:21] <aadamson> and I think it's gone.
[01:22] <G8APZ> I'd guess He
[01:23] Nick change: mrtux -> MRTUX
[01:24] <aadamson> last partial was at 01:19:08 at 1.035v
[01:24] <aadamson> it appears from the logs
[01:24] <G8APZ> well that was a good 2nd flight
[01:24] <aadamson> that was received, 01:18:53 was last transmission
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[01:25] <aadamson> I have no idea if it has solar or not... be a few hours till ya know that I suppose
[01:25] <G8APZ> aadamson I suspect not :-(
[01:26] <aadamson> yeah most likely not
[01:26] <G8APZ> needs another set of batts that can be switched in when volts fail!
[01:27] <G8APZ> but weight and lift a problem
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[01:27] <G8APZ> Very good for a pico though
[01:28] Nick change: MRTUX -> GLORIOUSMRTUX
[01:28] Nick change: GLORIOUSMRTUX -> MRTUX
[01:28] <Joekull> Thanks for the fun and the explanations!
[01:29] <G8APZ> I'm off to my bed.. hope to meet you all again soon 73
[01:30] <G8APZ> 88s to Mrs Joekull
[01:31] <Joekull> '88s' --- I'll google that
[01:31] <G8APZ> LOL
[01:31] <G8APZ> Gone now.......zzzz
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[01:33] <Joekull> Good night.
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[05:19] <F6AIU> G-02 heard 5:05 utc at 120 degrees from JN27VQ 434.125.30 weak signal no decoding
[05:20] Nick change: Jake__ -> Smrtz
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[06:07] <Joel_re> hey
[06:07] <Joel_re> the lat, long data from ublox modules are in the ddmm.mmmm dddmm.mmmm
[06:08] <Joel_re> format, does that mean we dont have seconds data ?
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[06:10] <x-f> it's there, you can convert the NMEA format to a conventional one
[06:10] <x-f> however habitat understands that format too, if you want to send the NMEA style coordinates
[06:12] <x-f> but then you must rely on access to spacenear.us tracker
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[06:16] <Joel_re> x-f: ok, Im not sure I can rely on access to the spacenear.us tracker
[06:16] <Joel_re> during the flight
[06:16] <Joel_re> flight/chase
[06:17] <Joel_re> x-f: 1922.49182 07247.44503 , in this case the last two digits are seconds?
[06:17] <Chetic> do I REALLY need to compile and install SWIG to run habitat?
[06:17] <Chetic> it's suddenly ridiculously complicated
[06:18] <Chetic> because of swig
[06:20] <x-f> Joel_re, not really, it is 19 degrees 22 minutes and 49.182 seconds
[06:20] <Joel_re> oh ok, thanks!
[06:22] <x-f> Joel_re, correction - 19 degrees 22.49182 minutes
[06:27] <Chetic> I'm finding a lot of information on parsing payload data with habitat and dl-fldigi but none on generating it
[06:27] <Joel_re> x-f: oh ok
[06:27] <Chetic> how do I do that?
[06:36] <x-f> Chetic, you just make a string with you data
[06:37] <x-f> $$callsign,sentence_id,lat,lon,alt,anything,else*checksum
[06:37] <Chetic> what should the crc be calculated on?
[06:37] <x-f> anything between $$ and * (not including those)
[06:38] <Chetic> alright then
[06:38] <Chetic> thanks
[06:39] <x-f> np
[06:43] <Darkside> Chetic: you dont ned to run habitat
[06:43] <Darkside> just dl-fldigi
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[07:12] <Joel_re> is there any realtime mapping code I could run on my laptop
[07:12] <Joel_re> just incase I dont have access to habitat
[07:12] <Joel_re> I plan to parse out dl-fldigi dumps
[07:12] <Joel_re> and feet it to some mapping app
[07:13] <Joel_re> s/feet/feed
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[08:16] <mfa298> Joel_re: if your payload converts the nmea ddmm.mmm format to dd.dddd then dl-fldigi will give you distance and bearing (but it can't do that with the ddmm.mmm format), the choice is whether you want a bit more complexity on the payload to make life easier on the ground or not.
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[08:26] <Joel_re> mfa298: yep, Ill be doing the conversion to dd.dddd within the payload
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[09:04] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Joel_re, Yes there is an independent tracker https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.brejza.matt.habmodem
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[09:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Morning all
[09:53] <Joel_re> Geoff-G8DHE-M: ok, thanks
[09:53] Action: Joel_re is worried mapforge wont cover his area very well
[09:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> nps, it does the entire job, and yes map quaility can vary, have a word with Matt, maybe you can just give it some images to use?
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[10:03] <x-f> Joel_re, check out Gmapcatcher for offline maps on your PC, in theory you could create some proxy program to feed the data from dl-fldigi to it
[10:05] <Joel_re> x-f: cool, giving that a try
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[10:23] <gonzo__> shame I can't use that phone tracker/decode app. My OS is too old
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[10:33] <jededu> ping upuwork
[10:33] <UpuWork> hi
[10:34] <jededu> if we are parsing ok in the logtail what would stop us appearing on the map ?
[10:35] <UpuWork> TWICK ?
[10:35] <jededu> Yes
[10:35] <UpuWork> you're not parsing correctly
[10:35] <UpuWork> unauthorized: {"error":"forbidden","reason":"Validation errors: u'52' is not of type u'number'"}
[10:36] <UpuWork> something in yuour document doesn't match the telemetry you're sending
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[10:36] <UpuWork> also I'm being anal but just return 1 or 0 rather than true/falce
[10:36] <UpuWork> false
[10:36] <jededu> Missed that bit screen is to small ok ill check
[10:39] Action: mfa298 hates raspberry pis
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[10:46] <fsphil> I think the predictor is making this up: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=00b2618efd09567ea8507cad06d28ef0fa4ae13b
[10:47] <fsphil> "And a little bit here, and over here ... and a little circle there..."
[10:47] Action: mfa298 checks it's not 1/4
[10:47] <fsphil> hah
[10:48] <fsphil> forgot about that
[10:48] <mfa298> If that works you might be in with a chance of most countries + seas crossed with a dry landing
[10:49] <mfa298> although I see it's set as a float so probably not a dry landing
[10:49] <fsphil> yea this is floaty
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[10:49] <fsphil> the entire float will be a slow journey around the british isles. so range won't be a problem :)
[10:49] <mfa298> still if you could get it to land as the prediction says that would be a pretty amazing flight
[10:50] <fsphil> north to south ... would have been appropriate today I guess
[10:53] Action: mfa298 really really hates Raspberry Pis
[10:53] <fsphil> which particular flaw today?
[10:54] <mfa298> turn on 86 of them, 10 fail to boot, reboot the ones that had booted after the networking for them was stable 9 fail to reboot
[10:55] <eroomde> why do you have 86 of them?
[10:55] <mfa298> now down to 6 not working having done a combination of power cycling or power cycling and re-inserting the SD cards
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[10:56] <mfa298> a mad idea someone wants to pay me money to work on.
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[10:56] <eroomde> if someone comes to you saying ' i have a plan and you'll need 80 raspberry pi's!'
[10:57] <eroomde> ... then surely you instantly recognise them as a lunatic and walk away?
[10:57] <eroomde> was he trying to recreate the power of one intal i3 or something?
[10:57] <eroomde> intel*
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[11:01] <mfa298> looks like it's time to reflash 6 SD cards.
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[11:03] <SgtBurned> eroomde: Lunatic with ideas better have money to back them up with ;D
[11:03] <jededu> Sorted can somone check the logtail for me just to make sure all is as is should be I have changed the flightmode to 1 and 0 as upu recommended callsign TWICK
[11:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Money up front please!
[11:03] <eroomde> SgtBurned: even then!
[11:04] <eroomde> I work with places that can give money but are still not worth workjing for
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[11:06] <mfa298> this is one of those thats borderline between a good idea or something that's not going to work (for a variety of reasons)
[11:07] <G8APZ> In my life in IT, I asked the user about the problem they wanted solved. What I did NOT want to know was their solution!!
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[11:07] <eroomde> yes that's definitely a think
[11:07] <eroomde> thing*
[11:08] <eroomde> they presuppose the solution they want you to use
[11:08] <G8APZ> I used to get other project members saying "the user wants another database file"...I'd prefer to see the user requirement, and THEN suggest a way of achieving it.
[11:09] <G8APZ> They didn't ever get a new database file!
[11:09] <G8APZ> data duplication and foreign keys is bad bad bad!!
[11:10] <mfa298> agreed for that - in this case I've designed most of the solution (and ignored crazy ideas about how to do it) but rpi was the recommended starting place mostly due to cost and ability to do this task. The other solutions are more costly and would be much harder to impliment.
[11:10] <G8APZ> not unless analysis showed that a new file was actually required!!
[11:10] <eroomde> needenough customers that you can afford to be strict with them
[11:10] <SgtBurned> Don't give the user what they want! They never know what they want :D
[11:10] <G8APZ> absolutely!!
[11:11] <G8APZ> that's the task of an analyst to extract their requirement, and to build it into a user requirement spec. Taking it beyond that with a design spec is something different
[11:12] <mikestir> http://www.businessballs.com/businessballs_treeswing_pictures.htm
[11:12] <G8APZ> Yes.. that's been around at least 40 years!!
[11:12] <mikestir> I know
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[11:12] <mikestir> that's some kind of new improved version
[11:13] <G8APZ> well the original with a car tyre on a rope was just 4 frames
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[11:14] <G8APZ> It says "If you know anything about the origins of the tree swing pictures - especially any memory or evidence that the cartoons existed during the 1960s or earlier"
[11:15] <G8APZ> I can remember seeing it in 1967, probably in Computer Weekly
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[11:18] <G8APZ> G-02 did well getting as far as Switzerland before conking out - batt volts 1.035v at 01:18:53
[11:23] <Upu2> thats 0.5v per cell
[11:23] <Upu2> which is impressive
[11:24] Nick change: Upu2 -> UpuWork
[11:26] <navrac_work> My mast has had to come down - someone complained to the planning department and my 'it's temporary' argument doesn't seem to work on a grade II listed building in an area of outstanding natural beauty.
[11:26] <G8APZ> It's a pity that cells don't recover some volts after a rest!!
[11:27] <navrac_work> So can anyone think of an aerial design that looks like the branches of a holly tree...
[11:27] <G8APZ> navrac_work how temporary? Is is on a trailer?
[11:27] <G8APZ> navrac_work what is it going to have to support and how high?
[11:27] <navrac_work> no on a stand - but I tried asking about the trailer route and apparently I'm not allowe that either
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[11:28] <G8APZ> really? are they saying you need planning permission for a trailer???
[11:28] <navrac_work> it was meant to support 2 18 ele crossed yaqgi's - but it only had a watson W50 on at the time - I pointed out it had only been up a week in that position and the week before was somewhere else
[11:29] <G8APZ> 2 x 18 on which band?
[11:29] <navrac_work> yep - can't park a caravan on the drive either apparently
[11:29] <navrac_work> 432mhzx
[11:29] <G8APZ> well that's not too big! Is it for terrestrial?
[11:30] <navrac_work> there is also an article 4 directive that doesn't allow aq shed or even a fence without planning permission
[11:30] <navrac_work> yes purely for balloon tracking
[11:30] <G8APZ> then move!!
[11:30] <navrac_work> just moved here....
[11:30] <G8APZ> to be honest, how much extra distance with a pair of 18s get you beyond the blue circle?
[11:31] <G8APZ> LoS is LoS
[11:31] <navrac_work> it is more to do with the fact that I'm only 1m ASL and there are slight hills around so the extra 12m height really helped
[11:31] <G8APZ> I tracked G-02 yesterday with an X-50 only from Peterborough to Mons in Belgium - 1030 telemetry blocks
[11:32] <G8APZ> a discreet colinear on a thin tube should conceal easily
[11:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> I think you need to ask for that in writing from the planners!
[11:32] <qyx_> lol 12m
[11:33] <G8APZ> It does sound rather restrictive Geoff!
[11:33] <mfa298> you could try the US approach, stick a flag on the mast and call it a flag pole
[11:33] <G8APZ> they fall fould too!!
[11:33] <navrac_work> I've done 590Km on my W50 from here - its all a question of height. Part of the problem is the 20m high tin roofed barn next door that blocks the signal everywhere from 240 to 320 degrees.
[11:34] <G8APZ> if you have a TV antenna, add a small plastic section to the support mast and hide an antenna inside that!
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is the building listed or something ?
[11:34] <navrac_work> yep listed.
[11:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> 1, 2 ?
[11:35] <mfa298> flag pole might still fall foul but would people complain about it to cause an issue ?
[11:35] <navrac_work> oh and i need permission for a tv aerial - however the said tin roofed barn means unless i put the tv aerial at 10-12m I cant get a signal anyway
[11:35] <G8APZ> keeping an area in a National Park free of antennas but allowing rusty tin sheds... Hmmmm
[11:36] <navrac_work> the tin roofed shed is listed - I tried to get permission for a small vertical on the roof of the barn - but thats a non no too
[11:36] <G8APZ> how far away is the barn?
[11:36] <navrac_work> 3m
[11:37] <gonzo__> attach it to a vehicle or a trailer mast and it's nolonger a planning issue
[11:37] <G8APZ> put a vertical on the barn and wait!
[11:37] <navrac_work> I wouldnt have to wait long.....
[11:37] <G8APZ> gonzo that's what I said, but apparently the planners say no
[11:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> Planner needs to put that in writing I think.
[11:38] <G8APZ> is there somewhere you can put it out of view locally ?
[11:38] <navrac_work> not that I can see.
[11:39] <G8APZ> hmm
[11:39] <navrac_work> I've been looking for somewhere i can run a fibreoptic link to , some solar on the ground and a small mast and a small local solar powered pc
[11:39] <navrac_work> then remote control the pc
[11:40] <G8APZ> yes.. sounds feasible...
[11:40] <G8APZ> solar PC though???
[11:40] <navrac_work> yeah, i would need a lot of solar panels
[11:41] <navrac_work> time to go and be nice to the local farmer.
[11:41] <G8APZ> can you settle for a thin wire groundplane... nobody would see that on your roof
[11:41] <navrac_work> I've got a thin wire groundplane on the roof for HF - so far I've got away with that
[11:41] <G8APZ> build a groundplane, and put it on barn... really nobody will see it!!!
[11:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> What about lighting protection, which happens to include your aerial ?
[11:42] <navrac_work> well I must admit looking at the roof as one big reflector is appealing.
[11:42] <mikestir> does a mast on a trailer not still come under "temporary" even if on a listed property?
[11:42] <G8APZ> yes.. the tin barn is enough of a ground!!!
[11:42] <G8APZ> just a small vertical using roof as radials
[11:43] <navrac_work> I'm in a 1 storey barn 4m to the apex and on 70cm the only thing that can be heard with the aerial there is the local repeater 4miles away - and thats pushing it
[11:43] <G8APZ> a 70cm 1/4 wave or 5/8 with a magnetic base should do it!!
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[11:44] <navrac_work> the roof of my barn is internally clad with boards with a foil coating - its like living in a faraday cage
[11:44] <G8APZ> aargh!
[11:45] <navrac_work> yes a 1/4 wave on the barn is probably all i could get away with - but that does rather suck in terms of performance
[11:45] <G8APZ> then you need an antenna on a tehered balloon!!
[11:45] <G8APZ> tethered
[11:45] <G8APZ> raise and lower at will!!
[11:45] <navrac_work> I have been considering a tethered balloon - but the helium costs are a bit much!#
[11:46] <G8APZ> generate your own H by electrolysis
[11:46] <navrac_work> and its a bit exposed and windy here
[11:46] <navrac_work> i must admit i did look up homebrew H2 geenrators
[11:46] <mattbrejza> fairly sure its cheaper to buy a bottle of H2
[11:46] <G8APZ> probably!
[11:47] <mfa298> a simple 1/4 wave in a good location can work well - as long as the top of the roof has a good view of the sky it'll probably do a good job for most flights
[11:47] <navrac_work> i think i need a non leaky balloon - that can raise an aerial and coax with a lightweight preamp
[11:48] <G8APZ> yes, then reel it in till next time!
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[11:49] <G8APZ> maybe you don't need the coax, just volts.... the signal can be retransmitted
[11:50] <G8APZ> and you receive the retransmitted one
[11:50] <G8APZ> but that doesn't work without a RX... aargh
[11:51] <G8APZ> anyway ... things to play with and think about.
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[11:53] <gonzo__> a friend had issues withb the niegbours recentky. Moaning about antennas. He had a qfh on a scaff pole, that was just lent against the shed doing some tests. Next day had a visit from the planning people.
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[11:53] <mfa298> stick a rpi with wifi dongle and rtl-sdr on the balloon and use rtl-tcp to stream the IQ data over wireless (needs a good wifi link though)
[11:53] <gonzo__> when he said it was temp and not fixed, they said it could stay for 21days.
[11:54] <gonzo__> then when asked if he attached it to his LR (on the direv in full view of the neigbours) they said that it was then a vehickle issue and nowt top do with them
[11:54] <G8APZ> then move the pole and start the charade again!
[11:54] <gonzo__> drive
[11:55] <gonzo__> if it's on a car than the buck passing starts
[11:55] <G8APZ> how about a decoy pigeon sitting on the roof with the ground plane as part of it!!
[11:56] <G8APZ> it's a game one has to play
[11:56] <gonzo__> it's a highways/construction and use issue. But it's not being used on the raod like that, so there is no issues
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[11:56] <G8APZ> it's my polevault pole ..honest!!
[11:57] <gonzo__> it's a natural addition, I just left a bit of ali in the ground and next day!!! Very fertile land
[11:57] <gonzo__> (or fertile imagination)
[11:58] <G8APZ> do they do 30ft high leylandii... hide a colinear near the top
[11:58] <SIbot1> In real units: 30 ft = 9.14 m
[11:58] <gonzo__> alternative isto to deploy the ant/mast as required
[11:58] <G8APZ> 30ft is the real unit in MY country thankyou!
[11:58] <SIbot1> In real units: 30 ft = 9.14 m
[11:59] <gonzo__> you can buy fibreglass trees, designed for mobile phone bases
[11:59] <G8APZ> thats the answer!!
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[12:00] <gonzo__> they need to make one that youcan jack up and insert a new section in every few months
[12:00] <navrac_work> well there is a conveniently placed holly tree about 20 something foot high that i could slip aq pole up inside if 1) I'm brave enough and 2) if the guy that owns the tree gives permission - but since he's the guy i think told the planning people im not sure
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[12:01] <eroomde> I have a microswitch that i want to cycle-test to failure
[12:01] <eroomde> not sure how best to do it
[12:01] <eroomde> maybe hook it up to some kind of reciprocating motor thing and run it for a while
[12:02] <eroomde> or perhaps use it as the switch for G8APZ's exclamation-mark key
[12:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> :)
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[12:05] <mfa298> you need to find a way to rig it up with one of these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z86V_ICUCD4
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[12:10] <G8APZ> eroomde a cam on a motor spindle... maybe you will burn out the motor first
[12:12] <eroomde> yeah indeed
[12:14] <G8APZ> does the manufacturer give MTBF rates on samples?
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[12:15] <G8APZ> or perhaps you are doing this for a manufacturer!
[12:16] <eroomde> i'm not sure i beleive them
[12:16] <eroomde> and they didn't give test info
[12:16] <eroomde> so i was just curious to try for myself
[12:17] <eroomde> it's not mega important, but if it's something i could rig up on the lathe and leave for a bit then i could have been tempted to have a go
[12:18] <G8APZ> a small DC model motor on a few volts should run for ever almost....and a means of counting the number of make/break events
[12:19] <G8APZ> how many rpm do you it needs? Can the switch open and close that fast?
[12:21] <eroomde> a few hundred out to be fine. i can rig something up here no probs
[12:22] <SM5OCI> Looks like TWICK is to be released soom?
[12:22] <G8APZ> good luck
[12:25] <SgtBurned> TWICK looks good, Lots of sensors ;) Lets hope for some good data.
[12:25] <G8APZ> sm5oci it's being received on the ground, but no idea when it is scheduled to go!
[12:26] <SgtBurned> Most likely just a test. Lot's of Temp sensors ( I counted 4 ), Humidity as well as pressure.
[12:26] <SM5OCI> G8APZ: Ok, tkanks.
[12:32] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> More details here https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/dqDRqDq5XS0
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[12:39] <G8APZ> Geoff-G8DHE wasn't the link to the Canterbury UKC_WTM5 ?
[12:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes sry mistook which one you were looking at.
[12:45] <G8APZ> TWICK is near Nottingham
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[12:50] <SgtBurned> G8APZ: The test was in Nottingham. Release will be outside Nottingham
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[12:54] <G8APZ> SgtBurned OK Thanks... any idea when?
[12:55] <SgtBurned> ;) Don't think I can release that info. Maybe if edujed comes back he can talk to you.
[12:55] <G8APZ> OK... No prob... just that if I don't expect a launch, I am not normally in here!!
[12:56] <G8APZ> I'll go out shopping if nothing is imminent.
[12:56] <G8APZ> If you want it tracked, then we need to know
[12:57] <craag> G8APZ: No NOTAM within many miles - I'd say you're quite safe
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[12:59] <G8APZ> craag OK thanks... I'll leave here then....
[12:59] <G8APZ> GONE
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[13:31] <BalYOLO> What happened with G-02?
[13:34] <UpuWork> Battery died
[13:37] <BalYOLO> Ah
[13:37] <BalYOLO> Was it an intentional floater?
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[13:43] <mfa298> BalYOLO: I think so
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[14:14] <malgarr> UpuWork, UpuWork help :P
[14:14] <malgarr> :)
[14:14] <malgarr> Upu:
[14:15] <UpuWork> hello ?
[14:17] <malgarr> UpuWork: I'm trying the code for ublox on ukhas wiki but I get ACK: failed
[14:17] <malgarr> do you have suggestions to how to find the problem?
[14:17] <UpuWork> are you using software serials ?
[14:18] <malgarr> yes
[14:18] <UpuWork> it will probably be that
[14:18] <malgarr> and arduino
[14:18] <UpuWork> it just doesn't work properly
[14:18] <eroomde> and you, for your own back, I give you the gift of a rod
[14:18] <UpuWork> try swap RX and TX over
[14:18] <UpuWork> haha
[14:20] <malgarr> ok! I got the problem.. soldering was not present in one pin in the breackout board
[14:20] <malgarr> now is working
[14:21] <UpuWork> good
[14:21] <UpuWork> don't use software serial if you can avoid it
[14:21] <eroomde> i think we should have a bot called HabHelp
[14:21] <eroomde> which people can ask for help
[14:22] <eroomde> it should just do some markov-ey suggestions
[14:22] <eroomde> 'is there a solder bridge?'
[14:22] <eroomde> 'have you pressed Rv'?'
[14:22] <eroomde> 'Tell me about your setup'
[14:22] <eroomde> and just like talking to a football with a face painted on it, the questioner will eventually solve their own problem
[14:22] <malgarr> eroomde: :D
[14:23] <UpuWork> lol
[14:24] <g0pai_ian> Upu* received this morning, many thanks.
[14:24] <UpuWork> nps thx Ian
[14:25] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Or the football starts talking to them.
[14:25] <eroomde> at which point you cut down on coffee
[14:26] <mfa298> or try talking to a different sort of ball.
[14:27] <Joel_re> are there no geeks in the UK who like football
[14:27] <Joel_re> (stupid curious question)
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[14:28] <SpeedEvil> 'no' - probably not zero.
[14:29] <mfa298> I'm sure there some that like football. Personally of the sports containing a ball the only one I really watch is Rugby (and then not that much of it)
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[14:35] <Chetic> the response I got was that sounds kind of frightening
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[14:38] <gonzo_> does balls of lead shot count ?
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[15:50] <SgtBurned> Anyone here thinking of releasing like 10 or so balloons over 1 hour periods? ( 1 Balloon an hour for 10 hours ). just to track wind movements etc?
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[15:51] <UpuWork> sounds expensive :)
[15:51] <SgtBurned> Simple GPS and Tx ?
[15:51] <UpuWork> still expensive
[15:51] <SgtBurned> Arduino Nano, Battery pack for 8 hours of flight?
[15:52] <SgtBurned> What sort of price spec we talking for one?
[15:52] <UpuWork> well can do it better than that
[15:52] <UpuWork> ~ £50 a tracker
[15:52] <SgtBurned> Is that wired up already to a connector or just the module in all it's pinned glory?
[15:52] <eroomde> i think the met office have thought of it
[15:52] <eroomde> they've been doing it for years
[15:52] <UpuWork> this : http://imgur.com/a/j4wE6
[15:53] <eroomde> if you want the data, just use the forecasts, they'll be plenty good enough
[15:53] <SgtBurned> Yeah, They've been doing weather balloons for a while now
[15:53] <gonzo_> no-one here does that. the met office have done it from time to time
[15:53] <eroomde> if you want to spend some money, go right ahead
[15:53] <gonzo_> snap
[15:53] <SgtBurned> xD Just thinking of ideas to do. Already done stuff for a RPi to go up with GPS, Temp, Pressure, Humidity etc.
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[15:56] <eroomde> have you flown it yet?
[15:57] <mfa298> change from an rpi based tracker to a real microcontroller
[15:57] <eroomde> well, the point about what there actually is to do that's interesting up there is a good one
[15:58] <mfa298> not that I'm building up a hatred of pis or anything :p
[15:58] <eroomde> the world is not being that improved by yet another picture of the curvature of the gopro-lens
[15:58] <eroomde> or measurements of the self-heating of 1-wire temperature sensors
[16:00] <mfa298> the data from a set of balloons released on a regular basis could be interesting, but unless you only want a few km of height I suspect the balloons/gas/parachute costs would get expensive although you might want to choose a time when things could change a lot.
[16:00] <SgtBurned> mfa298: Y U H8 RPi? ;D
[16:00] <SgtBurned> Will have a Pi Camera and Timelapse pictures every 30 seconds. Save to SD, Hopefully it doesn't land in the sea..
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[16:01] <mfa298> SgtBurned: take a look at around 10:53 in http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs/highaltitude.log.20140317
[16:01] <mfa298> or scrollback I've you've been connected to irc for long enough
[16:02] <SgtBurned> Yeah, I see what you are talking about
[16:02] <craag> I'd like to see data from several identical-as-possible pico floats simultaneously released
[16:02] <SgtBurned> The mad scientist with money wants 86~ RPi's...
[16:02] <Laurenceb> the hell
[16:02] <craag> You could build a 3d map of the temp/pressure of the space they travel through
[16:03] <Laurenceb> why would you want that many
[16:03] <mattbrejza> target practice
[16:03] <SgtBurned> Why not go full out and have a Gravitational Sensor.
[16:03] <SgtBurned> Map the Gravity Wells along the way :D
[16:04] <g0pai_ian> 1001 ways to stop things spinning, or maybe 86 of them . . .
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[16:15] <g0pai_ian> I was mildly interested when I saw the gyro mentioned a few days back. it looked like a small model motor driving it. Which brought back to me pictures from a Service AP covering the effects of altitude on a carbon brush motor. Quite astonishing really.
[16:16] <g0pai_ian> Not to oneself, don't use brush motors . . .
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[16:18] <eroomde> i think the gyro uses brushless motors
[16:18] <eroomde> assuming you're talking about the gimbal for the satcomm antenna
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[16:22] <g0pai_ian> Yes, I had a feeling that you were involved somewhere, but the memory fails me . .
[16:23] <eroomde> nope
[16:23] <eroomde> not in this'n
[16:24] <Maxell> Anyone here qrv for some HF digital modes?
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[16:24] <Maxell> I want to play HF :P
[16:24] <eroomde> #hamradio
[16:24] <Maxell> I must be invited :(
[16:25] <g0pai_ian> No HF antennas at the moment
[16:25] <eroomde> huh? wierd
[16:25] <mfa298> ##hamradio might work better but I think you need to register your nick
[16:25] <eroomde> i can just join
[16:25] <eroomde> not that i much want to
[16:25] <Maxell> mfa298: I have.
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[16:27] <g0pai_ian> I had a cheeky Italian give me a lecture about a 20m dipole at around 7m above ground. He told me what a waste it was and that all my power would be going up in the air. I told him that it cost me about 2 Euros and thanked him for the use of his expensive beam.
[16:27] <g0pai_ian> I didn't get an answer from that.
[16:27] <mfa298> lol
[16:29] <craag> 7m above ground.. I think I'm yet to get a HF antenna that high.
[16:29] <craag> oh the 80m dipole in te new forest was probably about that actually.
[16:30] <craag> most tend to be 2 or 3m high at most!
[16:31] <g0pai_ian> That's called a washing line
[16:32] <craag> heh
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[17:03] <DL7AD_mobile> Evening
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[18:02] <jededu> Is there any way to access historic logtail data fron earlier today
[18:05] <g0pai_ian> Habhub.org then click on IRC logs
[18:06] <g0pai_ian> Ahhhh. Logtail, sorry, Don't know.
[18:07] <jededu> Handy linkj tho :)
[18:07] <Upu> jededu are you the one doing the Pi board ?
[18:07] <jededu> Yes
[18:08] <Upu> pm
[18:08] <aadamson> Not sure who on here messes with STM32's.. There are new *cheap* (now arduino compatible) dev board out from St/Mbed - called Nucleo's
[18:09] <aadamson> but they don't have target based USB on them... so I remedied that problem if anyone wants.
[18:09] <aadamson> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/USB-bob.png
[18:09] <aadamson> gerbers etc here - https://github.com/akadamson/STM32-USB-BOB (I need to go check the schematic too) :)
[18:10] <aadamson> I'll update and create the BOM in the git here in a minute
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[18:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.digitaldutch.com/atmoscalc/
[18:24] <Laurenceb> useful
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[18:39] <G8KNN> Impressive flight by VK3YT-11
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[18:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Wonder how much further it will go!
[18:43] <G8KNN> Looks like it is heading to Christchurch
[18:43] <Upu> wow
[18:43] <mikestir> aadamson: that's neat. I haven't looked at the nucleos yet. On the subject of STM32: I've written a ChibioOS BSP for the Embest ethernet board that Farnell sells for use with the F4 discovery. Works with LWIP.
[18:44] <Upu> thats impressive
[18:44] <G8KNN> Thats yur next chan
[18:44] <G8KNN> challenge upu
[18:44] <Upu> haha
[18:44] <Upu> next stop.. no where :)
[18:44] <G8KNN> :)
[18:46] <aadamson> mikestir, I'll check that out... I'm going to revise that slightly and use an npn transistor on the disconnect to better match the newer approach people are taking... yeah the Nucleo's don't have target usb, they do but it a very strange way
[18:46] <aadamson> because it's arduino compatible, they take the serial on the st-link and the serial on the targer (uart2) and the hook the two together.
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[18:46] <aadamson> so if using the mbed stuff, you get a vcp from the stlink to the target
[18:47] <aadamson> but if your application isn't mbed and uses the target usb pins, you have no way to connect to the vcp... with that little board of mine :)
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[18:49] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> VK5YT has done 2890Kms http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/VK3YT-11.jpg
[18:49] <G8KNN> wow
[18:50] <mikestir> aadamson: I haven't published my thing yet, but it will go on github when I get around to it
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[18:50] <jcoxon> wow that vk3yt-11 flight is awesome
[18:51] <aadamson> :)... yeah, I'm kinda into open source, both hardware and software, I like sharing it usually comes back in droves with improvements, suggestions etc and I'm certainly no *expert* on any of this :)
[18:51] <aadamson> it's just fun for me!
[18:51] Nick change: LazyL-M0LEP -> LazyLeopard
[18:52] <amell> australia to new zealand? wow.
[18:52] <G8KNN> Time to set a new challenge jcoxon!
[18:52] <eroomde> circumnav
[18:52] <amell> I'm a bit suspicious actually.
[18:52] <eroomde> it's the big one
[18:52] <mikestir> aadamson: I get a lot of support/feature requests from people who (to quote an ex-colleague of mine) seem to have confused open-source with slavery :)
[18:53] <amell> a receiver in new zealand was apparently locked onto the flight in australia. no way.
[18:53] <eroomde> mikestir: one approach is bluntness
[18:53] <aadamson> mikestir, yes there is that, but that's easy... I just tell them to do it themselves! :)
[18:53] <eroomde> i've honed it quite well after about 8 years in this channel
[18:53] <jcoxon> amell, oh its running on aprs
[18:53] <jcoxon> which is alway son
[18:53] <mikestir> eroomde: I took that approach recently for a guy who emailed me asking the pinout of those FTDI serial cables
[18:53] <jcoxon> its a bit different to the standard system
[18:54] <eroomde> mikestir: quite right
[18:54] <eroomde> send back a lmgtfy
[18:54] <aadamson> interesting it looks like it took almost exactly 24hours to cross the water :)
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[18:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=5&call=a%2FVK3YT-11&timerange=259200&tail=259200
[18:55] <amell> why would it float melbourne to sydney then suddenly transport to NZ
[18:55] <jcoxon> amell, its a loop
[18:55] <amell> wind goes up the coast to brisbane, usually.
[18:56] <amell> hmm, checking GFS
[18:57] <arko> Geoff-G8DHE: woah
[18:57] <arko> cool
[19:00] <amell> GFS indicates it will go down the south island and then head back out to australia.
[19:00] <amell> kind of a freak weather condition that it got out to NZ in the first place. I can't find a historic GFS.
[19:04] <jcoxon> amell, a well placed high pressure could do that
[19:04] <amell> I agree.
[19:04] <jcoxon> we've had similar in europe
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[19:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> impressive anyway :)
[19:17] <Reb-SM3ULC> about 75 km/h, seems ok
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[19:23] <amell> nearing hanmer springs - been there. big mountains round there.
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[19:38] <cm13g09> Lunar_Lander: I approve of the mobile variant IRC nick ;)
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[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> thanks :)
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[19:53] <M0TVU> Good evening
[19:53] <M0TVU> I have a balloon question
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[19:54] <amell> M0TVU: this is not uncommon here.
[19:54] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[19:54] <M0TVU> I have a TOTEX 200 gram latex is this ok to use for a flight?
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[19:54] <Babs____> Ping eroomde
[19:56] <mfa298> M0TVU: I think it probably depends on your payload. Also check what the burst diameter is as I suspect it will need permission from the CAA (if the whole system reaches 2m in any direction at any point in the flight)
[19:56] <chrisstubbs> M0TVU, how heavy is the payload
[19:58] <M0TVU> Payload - I haven't worked it out yet. I guess the worst is the batteries.....
[19:58] <M0TVU> off to get some scales
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[20:00] <M0TVU> WOW - Gps antenna and telemetry comes in at 349g
[20:00] <Laurenceb> does it have solar onboard?
[20:01] <Laurenceb> battery voltage is rising
[20:01] <M0TVU> Not sure about a suitable battery pack. 9v pp3 or 12v pack?
[20:01] <SpeedEvil> 349 grams - does that include a generator?
[20:01] <M0TVU> I know I can't believe it
[20:02] <M0TVU> I could probably 1/2 that actually. It's my test setup with a BIG gps antenna - lol
[20:03] <M0TVU> Also has an LCD module for error messages .....
[20:04] <mfa298> M0TVU: most people use Engergizer Lithium AA/AAA cells
[20:04] <M0TVU> I take in the balloon data table the payload is the maximum payload weight
[20:04] <M0TVU> How do you have all this and a gopro though?
[20:04] <mfa298> M0TVU: you're best off using the burst calc habhub.org/calc
[20:05] <craag> M0TVU: What are you using as a tracker?
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[20:07] <M0TVU> It's a homebrew tracker with Radio metrix NTX thingy
[20:07] <Upu> "[20:01] <SpeedEvil> 349 grams - does that include a generator?"
[20:07] <Upu> lol
[20:07] <Upu> 349g is light :)
[20:08] <Upu> s/is/was
[20:08] <craag> ok.. just checking it was a rtty tracker and not some off the shelf bulky thing.
[20:09] <M0TVU> No the tracker hardware / software works fine. It's a PIC 16f648A at present
[20:09] <craag> Ok, so with a 500g payload weight and 200g balloon, you can do about 15-16km
[20:10] <M0TVU> Sounds low
[20:10] <craag> Obviously the less weight, the less helium you use, and the higher you'll go for a given balloon
[20:10] <craag> Yes, it's a small balloon
[20:10] <M0TVU> Hmmm - start small I guess
[20:11] <craag> Most people will use an 800g or larger to get up higher with cameras
[20:11] <craag> Nothing wrong with starting small to get used to the logistics :)
[20:11] <M0TVU> I think as a first flight. I just want to see 'if i can get it up' and if I can find it after ....
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[20:12] <craag> Yep good plan
[20:12] <Upu> step by step testing
[20:12] <Upu> what an odd concept
[20:12] <Upu> I approve
[20:12] <M0TVU> I think i'll save the gopro for another day - lol
[20:12] <craag> Put a cheap ebay canon on there if you want
[20:12] Action: SpeedEvil prefers a party cannon.
[20:12] <craag> heh
[20:13] <craag> I assumed that was already included in the 349g..
[20:13] <M0TVU> It's slowly coming together. Taken a year so far from start to this point. - Mostly off time have to admit - Been busy with other projects
[20:13] <craag> Better to take it slow and do lots of testing
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[20:14] <M0TVU> I reckon without the LCD and 'HUGE' gps antenna I can 1/2 that easily
[20:14] <Upu> you don't need the LCD
[20:14] <Upu> what GPS module are you using ?
[20:14] <M0TVU> No it's for testing. I forgot it was in place
[20:14] <craag> M0TVU: With 200g payload, you're looking at about 19km
[20:14] <M0TVU> You really don't want to know that
[20:15] <Upu> I do :)
[20:15] <LeoBodnar> plasma?
[20:15] <LeoBodnar> it's cold at 19km
[20:15] <M0TVU> Lassen SK8 at the moment but have just bought a motorola module which is 10000 times better
[20:16] <craag> is the motorola high altitude capable?
[20:16] <Upu> is the Lassen ?
[20:16] <M0TVU> I believe so
[20:16] <Upu> this : http://www.usinenouvelle.com/expo/img/recepteur-gps-resoluti-000025390-4.jpg ?
[20:16] <M0TVU> I'm pretty sure the lassen is. I read that data sheet 12 months ago
[20:16] <craag> Could get a ublox to be on the safe side..
[20:16] <craag> ublox + sarantel breakout might lower your weight a bit too
[20:17] <M0TVU> I think its a motorola oncore?
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[20:18] <M0TVU> I will progress to ublox but at present nothing has cost me more than £2 per bit. Even found the radiometrix cheap at a radio rally
[20:18] <Upu> haha
[20:18] <Upu> come speak to me next time you buy one
[20:19] <M0TVU> what the GPS?
[20:19] <Upu> and the radio
[20:19] <M0TVU> oh ok. The NTX thingy seems ok
[20:19] <Upu> holy crap
[20:19] <Upu> the Motorola Encore
[20:19] <Upu> uses 155mA
[20:20] <Upu> "typical"
[20:20] <M0TVU> I have tried a few tests from the top of FORT DUNLOP and a few fellow radio hams can hear it.
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[20:20] Nick change: crash_18974_ -> crash_18974
[20:21] <craag> Well cold isn't going to be an issue then..
[20:21] <craag> You can use it to fry the bacon at the launch site :P
[20:21] <Upu> though it does look like it works > 18km
[20:21] <Upu> 155mA :/
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, I got the GPS antennas and the NTX2B!
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> thank you very much :)
[20:21] <Upu> cool Lunar_Lander thx for confirmation
[20:21] <Lunar_Lander> you're welcome
[20:22] <craag> I found the datasheet for the M12+ unit, and yeah >18km
[20:22] <M0TVU> This is why I was going to use a battery pack :-(
[20:22] <M0TVU> never gave lithium cells a thought.
[20:23] <Upu> just to put it in perspective the MAX7C/7Q uses @ 22mA under aquire then 5-6mA in cyclic tracking
[20:23] <craag> M12+ is 185mW typical which is slightly better
[20:24] <M0TVU> Doesn't cost £2 though - lol
[20:24] <M0TVU> It's a learning curve :-)
[20:24] <Upu> no it does not :)
[20:24] <Upu> sure
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[20:25] <M0TVU> 9v pp3 200ma/h :-(
[20:25] <Upu> yeah they just have 6 1.5V cells in them
[20:25] <Upu> small ones at that
[20:25] <M0TVU> I think i'll be so heavy i'm going to need some help from Virgin
[20:25] <Upu> PP3 Lithium is better
[20:26] <Upu> 300mA
[20:26] <Upu> give you at least 2 hours from that GPS :)
[20:26] <M0TVU> lol
[20:26] <craag> erm
[20:26] <craag> Lithium PP3 is 750mah?
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[20:26] <Upu> ah yes it is sorry
[20:26] <craag> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/LA522_EU.pdf
[20:27] <M0TVU> Ok. So, i've learned the software (ish) maybe the hardware needs a re-think :-)
[20:28] <M0TVU> How much are the ublox with appropriate bad eyesight breakout board?
[20:29] <Upu> depends which one you want
[20:29] <Upu> 3.3V or 5V microcontroller ?
[20:29] <M0TVU> 5v
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[20:29] <Upu> more than £2 :)
[20:29] <M0TVU> pmsl
[20:29] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=68
[20:29] <M0TVU> I think I can break the piggy bank
[20:29] <Upu> less 10% if you use UKHAS as the coupon code
[20:32] <Upu> but yes I concur it is more expensive
[20:33] <M0TVU> Is that the GPS antenna soldered to it?
[20:33] <Upu> yes
[20:33] <M0TVU> is that part of the bundle?
[20:33] <Upu> yes
[20:33] <M0TVU> ooooh
[20:33] <M0TVU> not as bad as I thought
[20:34] <M0TVU> I'll check the finances
[20:34] <Upu> if you can use a 3.3V µC you can use this : http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=52
[20:34] <Upu> 1.5g all in with antenna
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[20:35] <M0TVU> Nice. NMEA as default? Can the messages be selected?
[20:35] <Upu> yes and yes
[20:36] <M0TVU> lovely
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[20:38] <M0TVU> Thanks for all the advice. I clearly need a rethink of the hardware. - More questions later in the month ...
[20:39] <Upu> no probs
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[20:39] <M0TVU> Just to throw a spanner in the works I understand that us radio hams aren't allowed to use our callsigns for the balloon name. WHY?
[20:40] <M0TVU> I mean if my name was M0TVU what difference does it make
[20:40] <craag> People might believe that you're transmitting under your ham license
[20:40] <mfa298> we can't use our licenses airborne (it's in the regs)
[20:40] <craag> WHich would be illegal
[20:40] <M0TVU> I know, but i'm not airborne
[20:40] <mfa298> althoguh if you're sticking to the ISM rules it's potentially allowed
[20:40] <M0TVU> it's STUPIDITY
[20:41] <M0TVU> in my opinion. There should be an exception for licence exempt transmitters
[20:41] <g0pai_ian> It may be stupidity, but it's not confusing.
[20:41] <craag> It gives room for misunderstanding.
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[20:41] <craag> So isn't advised.
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[20:41] <M0TVU> so i'll call it TVU _Ballon
[20:41] <mfa298> mostly if you don't use your callsign on the airborne balloon then it's clear you're operating under ISM rules
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[20:42] <craag> M0TVU: That works :)
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[20:43] <M0TVU> TVU_Balloon it is .....
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[20:43] <craag> $$TVU would be a nice short callsign
[20:43] <M0TVU> evn better
[20:44] <M0TVU> i'll change the callsign in the code
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[20:45] <g0pai_ian> TVU-0, TVU-1 etc. for a sequence of launches perhaps?
[20:45] <M0TVU> Great idea
[20:46] <M0TVU> Might be a while before we get anywhere close though. Much fiddling to be done first
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[20:47] <M0TVU> I built the prototype a year ago its sitting here by me now. It all started when I found a LAssen SK8 for £1 and thought I wonder what that does.
[20:47] <M0TVU> The original plan was a RTTY GPS transmitter for SOTA activations.
[20:47] g0hdi (56175b73@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.23.91.115) joined #highaltitude.
[20:47] <M0TVU> Much googling and messing eventually bought me here
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[20:48] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[20:49] <craag> I've got an old trimble board I picked up for a pound
[20:49] <craag> pulls a couple of hundred ma
[20:49] <M0TVU> I thin kall my failures are on youtube
[20:49] <M0TVU> It was a good starting point for me
[20:49] <craag> Gets a lock quite quickly but the position noise is awful
[20:50] <M0TVU> motorola oncore is almost instant compared with the trimble but again too much current. I'll use them for my maidenhead grid square project.
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[20:51] <M0TVU> Anyway. Must get on with my current project which is a 40m pic controlled transciever ......
[20:52] <M0TVU> Back when I have some new hardware - Thanks
[20:52] <craag> Cool, seeya!
[20:53] <Upu> bye
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[20:54] <g0pai_ian> Do most people forgo a backup battery on the GPS?
[20:54] <Upu> yep
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[20:54] <g0pai_ian> Tnx
[20:55] <Upu> just tie to GND
[20:55] <mfa298> M0TVU: there's nothing wrong with hanging out here in the mean time, you may well pick up useful hints in the mean time - there's a couple of people using PICs on here.
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[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> that was a good dinner
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> btw, the tweet bot is offline, right
[21:06] <Lunar_Lander> ?
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[21:16] <craag> Lunar_Lander: I'll give it a kick
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> because I earlier tweeted from my new mobile twitter account and it didn't show
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[21:20] <tweetBot> @HighAltLab: Once more introducing the Mobile Twitter account of the High Altitude Laboratory #ukhas
[21:20] <Lunar_Lander> thanks craag
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[21:25] <amell> came across this - is it a good board/design? http://projecthab.co.uk/vayu_ntx-v1-03-hab-tracker-pcb/
[21:27] <mfa298> It was done by someone who's often here - I think based on someone elses design.
[21:27] <amell> has it been tested in anger?
[21:27] <mfa298> It's well worth designing your own tracker and writing the code yourself.
[21:27] <mfa298> I think it's been flown once.
[21:28] <amell> i can code arduino etc, not a problem. the problem is PCB - I haven't done that for like 25 years.
[21:29] <mfa298> as a first go you can always use a standard arduino board, gps breakout board and ntx2b
[21:29] <DL7AD> recently came back from the airport :) www.dl7ad.de/DSC_0109.JPG www.dl7ad.de/DSC_0112.JPG www.dl7ad.de/DSC_0084_stitch.jpg
[21:29] <amell> all that stuff is gonna be too heavy for foil balloons surely.
[21:29] <mfa298> you can do it with a foil ballon but it probably won't get that high
[21:29] <Upu> wb DL7AD nice pics
[21:30] <DL7AD> at any time i will divert to UK :P
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[21:31] <mfa298> amell: I'm pretty sure this was an arduino board https://www.philcrump.co.uk/CRAAG1_Camera_Launch_26th_November
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> hi DL7AD
[21:31] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander :)
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> I got also a good picuture
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> picture
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> this http://s.gullipics.com/image/i/m/7/5yv88x-k523lp-znew/20140317221555.jpeg
[21:32] <DL7AD> cool. i like this :P yum yum
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:32] <amell> Lunar_Lander: did you find those on the moon?
[21:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD no at ALDI
[21:32] <DL7AD> take ca*** gone.... :D
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> ?
[21:34] <amell> mfa298: Aha. Thank you for the Missing Link.... https://www.philcrump.co.uk/CRAAG1 - Thats what i am after,
[21:34] <DL7AD> take care [of your foood]...... gone ^^
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[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:35] <Lunar_Lander> I like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJsd8uzDCFA&list=UUYjlxCP6gIDjWrPID5hKBgw
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> british gameshow fails xD
[21:37] <mfa298> amell: it's still worth doing your own thing - you don't know what bugs others have written. but that gives an easier place to start.
[21:37] <cm13g09> evening mfa298
[21:37] <mfa298> once you've got something like that working it shouldn't be too hard to go from that to a pcb
[21:37] <mfa298> evening cm13g09
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> "Name a weapon used in the board game Cluedo"
[21:37] <Lunar_Lander> "Dice"
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> "Dice is a weapon"
[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:38] <amell> arduino pro mini - £2.87 on ebay :)
[21:38] <mfa298> that's a new one - Lunar, in the Physics Lab, with the Dice - Not seen that one before.
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> yea xD
[21:39] <mfa298> amell: as a middle step you can always go for an atmega328 on stripboard, then go for making a pcb
[21:40] <Lunar_Lander> and the dude from "The Chase" is hilarious
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[21:41] <amell> ok. apparently i can fly pico for £68.56
[21:41] <amell> Lipower boost regulator 14.99
[21:41] <amell> Arduino pro mini 2.87
[21:41] <amell> rfm22b 9.90
[21:41] <amell> ublox max 7 with sarantel 40.80
[21:41] <amell> the ublox chews up the cash.
[21:42] <mfa298> get an arduino doing 3v3 logic and that should make the gps cheaper
[21:43] <mfa298> plus use the advice from earlier
[21:43] <mfa298> 20:29 < Upu> less 10% if you use UKHAS as the coupon code
[21:43] <amell> i saw that :)
[21:46] <mfa298> with a 3v3 arduino you should be able to get a suitable gps breakout for around £26
[21:47] <amell> down to 49 quid total now.
[21:48] <mfa298> you could probably find a cheaper way of doing the power as well, cheap smps and 3 x AAA cells would probably work for a 3v3 arduino
[21:49] <amell> Lipower boost regulator 14.99
[21:49] <amell> Arduino pro mini 3.3v 8.53
[21:49] <amell> rfm22b 7.14
[21:49] <amell> ublox max 7 pico 3.3v 23.99
[21:49] <amell> any thoughts on how long this configuration would last? not looking to beat leobodnar record...
[21:50] <mfa298> that's probably going to depend on how you power it - what batteries ?
[21:50] <Upu> depends on the power saving
[21:51] <amell> 2x Li Energiser AA
[21:51] <Upu> probably 24 hours ish
[21:51] <Upu> but 2 x AA would struggle under a pico
[21:52] <amell> even with the metal casing stripped off?
[21:52] <Upu> yup
[21:52] <Upu> its the batteries
[21:52] <mfa298> with a heavier pico payload you may do better going for an up/down flight rather than trying to float. Chances are it will be a low float never seem to work that well.
[21:54] <amell> what else would you use?
[21:54] <Upu> A step up from single AA to 3.3 did 13 hours with pretty much that hardware
[21:54] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=369
[21:54] <Upu> Just for a point of reference my new 1.8V boards can do 75 hours from the same
[21:55] <amell> i don't think you can get 1.8V arduino breakout boards, can you?
[21:56] <Upu> no but you can make them
[21:56] <Upu> just need to clock it at 4Mhz or less
[21:56] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=383
[21:57] <Upu> you could in theory hack a Pro Mini to run at 1.8V
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[21:57] <Upu> just change the regulator and the resonator
[21:57] <amell> i was wondering about that.
[21:57] <Upu> you'll need to program it via ICSP I think
[21:57] <Upu> no idea easier to roll your own
[21:57] <mfa298> just remember you don't need to aim for a 75hr board for your first attempt. Do it a step at a time with what your happy with (or adding a bit of new stuff) on each revision.
[21:58] <Upu> oh yeah
[21:58] <Upu> if you saw my bin of scrapped PCB's :)
[21:58] <Upu> its taken me 2 years to get to that point
[21:59] <Upu> Just because I like showing it off here it is in black : http://i.imgur.com/QluWuQ3.jpg
[21:59] <amell> nice
[21:59] <mfa298> not in HAB Pink ?
[22:00] <Upu> nah you know what I tried to put a bright pink LED on
[22:00] <Upu> but they didn't work @ 1.8V :/
[22:00] <amell> presumably need a level converter to program at 1.8 v
[22:00] <Upu> no the ICSP programmer can do it
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[22:01] <amell> 50 quid total is cheap enough to give it a go and make a mess of it. so i will do it sometime soon.
[22:02] <Upu> try it with the RFM22B and the Mini
[22:02] <Upu> long before I'd made my pico boards
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[22:03] <Upu> Dave Akerman had made this : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/yqjSc.jpg
[22:03] <amell> upu: that looks like my configuration :)
[22:03] <craag> amell: My CRAAG1 was basically ^^ exploded
[22:03] <Upu> Sparkfun LiPower board, RFM22B, Mini Pro, BMP085 and a Falcom GPS
[22:04] <DL7AD> good night
[22:04] <Upu> night DL7AD
[22:04] <amell> why would you use bmp085? can't we derive altitude from the GPS
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> night DL7AD
[22:04] <craag> Some people like to see pressure graphs anyway
[22:05] <DL7AD> craag: but its difficult to get the bmp's
[22:05] <Upu> pressure actually may be useful on a pico
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> Very much so.
[22:05] <Upu> as you can turn the GPS off and still report altitude saving power
[22:05] <SpeedEvil> You can wake...
[22:05] <mfa298> I think there's been a couple of flights where the pressure sensor has been useful - where the GPS has locked up at 12/18km.
[22:05] <craag> DL7AD: Yeah I've never used one myself
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> It is quite possible to get really moderately decent position from the predictor, and an altitude graph
[22:06] <DL7AD> craag: i got 2 from china. took 6 weeks to ship it from there.
[22:06] <amell> BMP180 should be easily available?
[22:07] <Upu> its been replaced
[22:07] <craag> DL7AD: youch.. they're in stock in seeveral uk hobby shops...
[22:07] <amell> lol
[22:07] <Upu> Oh check this : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/14.07.2012.Launches/vlcsnap-2012-07-14-23h40m01s150.jpg
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[22:08] <Upu> thats one of my payloads being thrown around after burst
[22:08] <DL7AD> craag: where?
[22:08] <craag> DL7AD: http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/barometric-pressure-sensor-bmp180-breakout.html?gclid=CKfknrjKmr0CFekBwwodHzAADg
[22:09] <DL7AD> craag: ehm well i mean unsoldered chips
[22:09] <craag> ah ok
[22:09] <craag> no idea then
[22:09] <Upu> oh the 180 goes down to 1.8v
[22:09] <Upu> epic my next pico is having one of those on it
[22:10] <Upu> dog walk afk
[22:13] <malgar> what's happened to that balloon from australia? did it really reach new zeland or it is just a test?
[22:14] <malgar> is it foil or latex?
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[22:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> here are the details http://picospace.net/
[22:23] <amell> http://wotzup.com/2014/03/australia-new-zealand-balloon-success/
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[22:24] <amell> interesting. frequency switch at 160 deg longitude as NZ use different APRS frequency
[22:27] <malgar> wonderful flight, congratulation
[22:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Now up to 3057Km flight http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/VK3YT-11.jpg
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[22:42] <malgar> just wow
[22:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> I wonder what the NZ ATC are thinking given that they wanted proof of the CUSF predictions :-)
[22:43] <amell> I think that was a different launch?
[22:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> It was but it won't stop them being overflown ;-)
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[23:04] <LeoBodnar> amell don't strip Lithium casings. 1) This battery type relies on mechanical compression of electrodes. 2) It contains bad stuff
[23:06] <LeoBodnar> very cool! is it solar powered? or is it warmup voltage rise effect?
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[23:13] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[23:16] <amell> i need to get a new BB provider
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[23:22] <amell> leobodnar: my fingers thank you for your warning :)
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[23:34] <g0pai_ian> BMP180 breakout boards are available at a lot less than that. Smaller but drop in replacement for BMP085 which is now out of production. Apparently good to 12000m
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[23:53] <heathkid> sad... I didn't even get to fly my BMP085... :(
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[00:00] --- Tue Mar 18 2014