highaltitude.log.20140315

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[00:04] <Pascend-Ross> Geoff-G8DHE: well, that is pretty powerful!
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[00:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> There is a lot too it, when you really get into it, if the students have time its brilliant for all sorts of things, I found it when I wanted to plot our travels http://www.g8dhe.net/blog/content/static/Bongo_Travels_2009.php
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[00:08] <Pascend-Ross> nice! I'll be sharing this about
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[00:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> and of course its using the old API I will have to go back and update!
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[00:17] <g0pai_ian> Don't forget to work in a bit of RTTY telemetry jingle fading into the music . . . Nice video.
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[00:19] <Pascend-Ross> haha...I swear....everything I heard for the few hours after recovery was just bepbebpepbepepebpepeepepbebepbepbepp...I'm fairly certain we could have sorted a virtual audio device out XD
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[00:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes an essential item try VAC not free but its very good and not that expensive under windows
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[00:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right time for bed AFK folks
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[01:06] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, you are probably sleeping, but curious what battery arrangement you used on your 2+ day flight with solar, etc?
[01:06] <LeoBodnar> which one?
[01:07] <Laurenceb> here we never sleep
[01:07] <DL7AD> hehe
[01:08] <DL7AD> morning btw
[01:08] <Laurenceb> i might go out and check out the smoldering carnage
[01:08] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/ZiMfWN3.jpg
[01:08] <DL7AD> hm...? whats that?
[01:09] <Laurenceb> local building
[01:09] <DL7AD> o_O
[01:09] <Laurenceb> theatre
[01:09] <Laurenceb> well.. was
[01:09] <DL7AD> ^^
[01:11] <DL7AD> http://funnygasm.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Found-My-Keys.jpg
[01:11] <Laurenceb> needs this photoshopping
[01:11] <Laurenceb> http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/043/disaster-girl.jpg
[01:12] <aadamson> shoot I don't know, let me go check your history...
[01:12] <aadamson> it would have been a pico with solar and battery
[01:12] <aadamson> 12 or 13?
[01:13] <DL7AD> aadamson: heres the list http://leobodnar.com/balloons/
[01:13] <aadamson> yeah, how about B-14 for example?
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[01:14] <DL7AD> aadamson: i think he flew a 200mAh LiPo battery
[01:14] <aadamson> that used the st 1040 part I think and ah, that was a tiny lipo
[01:15] <aadamson> so it must have buck on it too?
[01:15] <DL7AD> ehm a step up to charge it by the solar panels
[01:15] <DL7AD> and a step down to power his pcb by the battery
[01:15] <DL7AD> that would be the most logical
[01:16] <aadamson> yeah spv1040 is a boost controller, and then some form of buck controller to get back to 1.8v
[01:17] <aadamson> i just didn't see enough *inductors* on the board for both, that's why I wondered what battery was used?
[01:17] <aadamson> he may have found a single cell lithium that would be compatible with the spv 1040
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[01:17] <DL7AD> aadamson: ehm yes. you're right
[01:17] <DL7AD> interesting chip
[01:18] <aadamson> the 1040?
[01:18] <aadamson> yeah
[01:19] <aadamson> http://www.ernieball.com/products/electric-strings/1753/013-plain-steel-6-pack - btw, these strings that were lined are steel, not nickle... the nickel ones are wound
[01:20] <aadamson> http://www.ernieball.com/products/electric-strings?filter[501]=4764
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[01:25] <aadamson> lined = linked ^^
[01:27] <aadamson> hmm, I say that and then indeed find nickel ones.. guess the website lies :)
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[01:49] <g0pai_ian> The #13 isn't wound. I bought One the other day at £4.99 and got five. Not used to buying guitar strings, for a violin they cost a lot more.
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[02:15] <aadamson> g0pai_ian, thanks, yes I thought I saw some conversation that they were nickel plated, but there seems to be different infomation... the website from ernie balls says steel, and yet some ebay providers are saying nickel. The only nickel ones I could find were *wound*. I just ordered some of the steel one and some of the same, but they claim nickel from ebay, we'll see what I get, they were only $4.00 with free shipping so I
[02:15] <aadamson> got one of each from 2 different providers even though they both used the same picture for the strings :)
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[07:41] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:46] <Maxell> hai
[07:48] <Darkside> anyoen in th eUK with 20m?
[07:48] <Darkside> 14181
[07:54] <jcoxon> Darkside, sorry - no antenna
[07:54] <Darkside> bloody hell we're heard in the UK
[07:54] <Darkside> dunno who
[07:54] <Darkside> M0DJX
[07:54] <Darkside> lol
[07:58] <Upu> you're probably transmitting through the planet with that amount of power
[07:58] <Darkside> doubt that
[07:58] <Darkside> does go around the world lol :P
[07:58] <Darkside> running 400W
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[07:59] <jcoxon> morning Upu
[07:59] <Upu> morning
[07:59] <Upu> morning RocketBoy
[08:00] <Upu> Keith pulled ITLAC's record
[08:00] <Darkside> lol
[08:00] <Darkside> until they gt proof?
[08:00] <Upu> basically yes
[08:00] <Darkside> hah ok
[08:01] <jcoxon> Upu, whats this?
[08:01] <Upu> oh a Mexican team claimed a new altitude record
[08:01] <Upu> 48.9km or something
[08:02] <Upu> with a 3.6kg payload under a He filled latex
[08:02] <Darkside> 47.somthing
[08:02] <jcoxon> wow i'd be suprised
[08:02] <Darkside> yeah, we're calling bullshit on that one
[08:02] <jcoxon> how did they track?
[08:02] <Upu> we calculated the ascent rate from the telemetry screen shots and it was 11m/s
[08:02] <Upu> they aren't saying
[08:03] <Darkside> bbl
[08:03] <jcoxon> hmmm, thats not so much fun
[08:04] <Upu> anyway I'm now classified as an enemy combatant in Mexico I suspect
[08:04] <jcoxon> oh dear
[08:04] <jcoxon> how did they announce it?
[08:05] <Upu> a press release hang on let me get the link
[08:05] <Upu> they did it front of 2000 people and the Mexican airforce
[08:07] <Upu> can't find it
[08:07] <Upu> they are overlaying their images with nasa logos too
[08:07] <Upu> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1390474017887875&set=a.1381836088751668.1073741828.100007758696123&type=1&theater
[08:08] <jcoxon> oh well, lets see what happens
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[08:08] <Upu> yup
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[08:09] <ibanezmatt13> morning
[08:09] <Upu> morning
[08:09] <number10> morning
[08:09] <cm13g09> morning
[08:09] <Upu> right work calls laters
[08:10] Action: jcoxon checks its the weekend and he isn't meant to be at work
[08:10] <eroomde> ?
[08:10] <eroomde> it's saturdad
[08:11] Action: cm13g09 should get up and go and stat moving house!
[08:11] <cm13g09> *start
[08:11] <eroomde> i am actually at work!
[08:11] <eroomde> but leaving soon
[08:11] <eroomde> we had a test day yesterday and it went on late. bit of clean-up to do
[08:12] <g0pai_ian> That looks like one of those taped up bundles of dope that get smuggled across into the US? Hidden in plain sight!
[08:12] <g0pai_ian> Rumour of course!
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[08:22] <mclane> Does someone have an eagle pad geometry for the taoglas sgp 15.4a gps patch antenna?
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[08:23] <ibanezmatt13> mclane, Upu's eagle libraries have the Taoglas path antenna in there, not sure if it's the one you're after but I've got one on my board
[08:24] <mclane> I've seen that, but the one in upus lib is bigger
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> ah ok
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[08:26] <LeoBodnar> always make own footprints, always
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[08:27] <LeoBodnar> it takes longer to check someone else's than make your own
[08:27] <mclane> is there a tutorial how to do that in eagle?
[08:28] <LeoBodnar> http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=50&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&q=video+making+parts+in+eagle&oq=video+making+parts+in+eagle
[08:28] <mclane> thanks!
[08:33] <cm13g09> I apologise if anyone here works in the property business, however if there's one good thing about estate agents, it's that they're consistent.... consistently rubbish!
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[08:42] <fsphil> cm13g09: yes I've found this too
[08:46] <craag> cm13g09: Got the keys?
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[09:04] <cm13g09> craag: about to go get them
[09:05] <cm13g09> craag, mfa298: if either if you are around this morning and fancy helping me with a trip to Ikea....
[09:07] <daveake> You mean, helping you to find your way out again?
[09:07] <cm13g09> daveake: lol
[09:08] <cm13g09> right
[09:08] <cm13g09> off to the estate agents
[09:08] <daveake> Went there last week to get some shelving and cupboards
[09:08] <daveake> Only got out this morning
[09:08] <cm13g09> wish me luck - they're a bit of a dippy lot.....
[09:08] <daveake> :)
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[09:09] <fsphil> you forgot to leave a trail?
[09:09] <fsphil> easy mistake to make
[09:09] <daveake> yup
[09:11] <daveake> We were pleasantly surprised by the quality of the stuff, and the fact that you buy all the parts separately so you can basically design your own shelving
[09:11] <fsphil> I've never actually been in an Ikea
[09:12] <daveake> So although none of the things they showed fitted what we wanted, we found the closest, changed a few bits, and bob's your swedish meatball-loving uncle
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[09:50] <LeoBodnar> what is arduino about this? https://www.tindie.com/products/DORJI_COM/arduino-si4463-compact-transceiver-module/
[09:52] <LeoBodnar> i got myself some Arduino solder and Arduino M3 screws
[09:52] <mikestir> presumably there's an avr in there and they put the bootloader on it
[09:52] <mikestir> so at least it should be easy enough to wipe it out and put some real code on it
[09:53] <LeoBodnar> there is nothing inside apart of Arduino Silabs RF chip and Arduino crystal and maybe a few Arduino caps and inductors
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[09:57] <LeoBodnar> It's sad to see some decent EE brought down to primary school level
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[09:58] <LeoBodnar> FTDI is doing it too: http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Cables/DS_TTL-232R_RPi.pdf
[09:59] <LeoBodnar> It's a Raspberry Pi USB connected to Raspberry Pi serial port using Raspberry Pi wires using Raspberry Pi 3.3v levels
[09:59] <LeoBodnar> "...customised for operation with the Raspberry Pi."
[10:00] <LeoBodnar> Engineer: "you can't do that?! it's a plain old USB to RS232 convereter!" Marketing: "Customers are idiots, let me handle this."
[10:01] <mfa298> never underestimate the idiocy of some customers.
[10:02] <mfa298> I've heard of £1 each or 4 for £5 deals working (with people choosing the 4 for £5 option)
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[10:15] <x-f> it's just a SEO keyword to get more hits from google
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[10:29] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: chill dude :)
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[10:33] Nick change: Guest48285 -> Miek
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> ARM hangover
[10:34] <LeoBodnar> :D
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[10:46] <Willdude123> Ooh ofcom hasnt replied to my foi request in the time they are required to
[10:48] <mikestir> hmmm someone appears to have been uploading ancient data from habhub to APRS-IS with incorrect timestamps
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[10:52] <DL7AD_> morning
[10:54] <DL7AD_> fsphil: ping
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[10:59] <SpeedEvil> Willdude123: whatdotheyknow ?
[11:00] <Willdude123> Yesh
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[11:03] <Pascend-Ross> Is there a high res ukhas logo I can use for my vid?
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[11:08] <fsphil> Pascend-Ross: http://ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:logo
[11:08] <fsphil> DL7AD_: pongish
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[11:09] <Pascend-Ross> fsphil: Awesome, thanks!¬
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[11:16] <bertrik> is G-02 going to be launched today (I see it on the map)?
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[11:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not heard anything, on the map its shown at a resedential location not a field!
[11:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> but close enough to one to be walked there ;-)
[11:22] <bertrik> Also, I'm slightly curious about the things measured, like PLL loop volts and Xtal trim
[11:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes an interesting collection to measure!
[11:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Will it be ultra stable, or should we be expecting drift !
[11:35] <es5nhc> 500 mb winds pretty strong at least in parts of the UK, at least were at 00Z
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[12:04] <DL7AD_> fsphil: did you try the code? :P
[12:07] <DL7AD_> fsphil: okay tell me sometime else. im about to catch the train.
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[13:15] <amell> Still waiting for launch announcement but suspect there will be one or two soon.
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[13:29] <mfa298> amell: it's quite possible there won't be any launches today or tomorrow
[13:29] <Upu> on the grounds its blowing a gale outside
[13:29] <amell> It's calm and wind free here
[13:29] <amell> Sunny day etc
[13:30] <mfa298> it might be calm at 0m AGL, but it *will* be different at altitude.
[13:30] <Upu> there are small children flying past my window up here
[13:30] <x-f> huge snowflakes falling over here
[13:31] <mfa298> also for any latex flights the person will have needed CAA permission in which case they would probably have announced already.
[13:32] <mfa298> and the majority of recent pico flights (one person launching them in particular) don't get announced until they've been flying a while and they're heading somewhere interesting.
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[13:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> amell, You can get a feel from these graphs http://meteocentre.com/upperair/get_sounding_map.php?lang=en&show=0&hist=0&region=uk
[13:45] <Babs_> Well, I have to say that if you are looking for customer service that literally delivers anything you demand, i can highly recommend raspiman on the basis of this package that I received this morning http://i.imgur.com/Yd3byFP.png
[13:46] <Pascend-Jonny> I think I need to start buying from him :D
[13:46] <Upu> haha
[13:47] <Babs_> Upu - I am totally doing this next time I order from HABSuppllies
[13:47] <Upu> try me :)
[13:47] <Babs_> "Please draw eroomde's disdain on the envelope"
[13:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> :))))
[13:47] <Upu> haha I know exactly what I'd draw :)
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[15:13] <dutchtux> ola
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[15:38] <fsphil> https://twitter.com/AstroKarenN/status/444859815248928768/photo/1/large
[15:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nice
[15:40] <fsphil> beats anything I can manage :)
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[16:52] <UKC_THOMAS> Hey guys, I was just testing the tracker : http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=UKC_WTM5 . I created a new payload and saw it worked, do i have to create a new flight doc too? it seems to work without?
[16:57] <fsphil> the flight doc is needed for your payload to appear in dl-fldigi's list of flights
[16:58] <fsphil> and to allow you to export your data later if you need to
[16:58] <fsphil> future versions of the tracker will probably need it too, but not yet
[16:59] <UKC_THOMAS> Thanks a lot, will submit flight docs soon then!
[17:00] <UKC_THOMAS> Last question if that's ok; is it possible to generate trajectory images using the tracker like these: https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/p206x206/391766_148378758638367_621479065_n.jpg
[17:00] <UKC_THOMAS> https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t31.0-8/267153_148378758638367_621479065_o.jpg
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[17:02] <fsphil> yea, you can export the data after the flight as a csv or kml file and import it into google earth
[17:03] <fsphil> Geoff-G8DHE usually does this
[17:03] <fsphil> like http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/VK4HIA_20140201/VK4HIA_20140201.html
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[17:05] <UKC_THOMAS> Cheers! Looks pretty neat, hence I asked. I'm creating my flight docs now, I am however unsure about the launch time right now .. I've reserved a slot and I'll check what the weather is like on the day itself
[17:05] <UKC_THOMAS> Can I just enter something e.g. 12:00, even though it might be a few hours earlier/later?
[17:05] <fsphil> you can make the flight doc or two, and get whichever one you want approved later when you know which
[17:06] <fsphil> yea, most flights never happen as scheduled
[17:06] <basil> i plan to launch my first HAB very soon, using habhub i know how much helium i will need to use but have no way of measuring the amount that is going into balloon from cylinder,does anyone know how i can overcome this
[17:06] <UKC_THOMAS> okay awesome!
[17:07] <fsphil> basil: the simplest way is to measure the neck lift of the balloon as you fill it. the calculator at http://habhub.org/calc/ will tell you what it should be
[17:07] <fsphil> most people fill a bottle of water so it weights the same as the neck lift
[17:08] <fsphil> and if the balloon just floats with it attached, then it's perfect
[17:08] <fsphil> if it rises there is too much helium, if it falls there is not enough
[17:08] <UKC_THOMAS> Thanks, I've submitted the flight doc for UKC_WTM5 . Will I get some sort of notification when it's been approved?
[17:08] <fsphil> UKC_THOMAS: nah, you just visit the #habhub channel and give them the flight document ID
[17:09] <fsphil> it's not automatic
[17:09] <basil> fsphil:so attach weigh to fill tube and when it just lifts that it?
[17:09] <UKC_THOMAS> Ok, thanks
[17:10] <mfa298> UKC_THOMAS: once you know when its flying you probably want to send an email to the mailing list to tell people when / where / settings etc. then you'll hopefully get people helping to track
[17:10] <fsphil> basil: basically. but you also need to take into acconut the weight of the filling tube
[17:10] <fsphil> account*
[17:10] <fsphil> the weight of the tube + the ballast (bottle of water) should match the target neck lift
[17:11] <basil> fsphil: thanks thats great
[17:11] <fsphil> if it's windy do be careful, it can make it very difficult to judge if the balloon is floating
[17:11] <UKC_THOMAS> mfa298: ok, i'm still waiting for the CAA to approve my request but called them up few days ago and they told me not to worry and that my doc was in their queue
[17:12] <fsphil> they have a queue now? things are improving
[17:12] <UKC_THOMAS> well, that's what they told me
[17:12] <UKC_THOMAS> it also seems like they are never there after 12
[17:12] Action: mfa298 suspects queue == pile on DM's desk.
[17:13] <fsphil> "In Tray" "Out Tray" "Dave Tray"
[17:13] Action: daveake suggests queue is sorted with /me at top and fsphil at bottom
[17:13] <daveake> :)
[17:13] <mfa298> UKC_THOMAS: you can always email the list with when you're hoping to fly it (assuming approval happens)
[17:15] <UKC_THOMAS> mfa298: ok will do! I requested permission on the 6th.. i dont know how long it usually takes
[17:15] <UKC_THOMAS> 9 days ago
[17:16] <fsphil> CAA time isn't like normal human time
[17:16] <fsphil> I've found you normally don't get permission until shortly before it's needed
[17:16] <fsphil> or shortly after
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[17:17] <mfa298> I think: time taken for approval = (day of launch - day of submission) +/- 50% approximately
[17:17] <fsphil> it's also quicker if your first name is dave
[17:17] <UKC_THOMAS> haha, that's so annoying!! in case I don't get it, could I launch it from one of UKhass launch sites?
[17:17] <UKC_THOMAS> slightly stressing out now
[17:18] <fsphil> you'd have to talk nicely to CUSF
[17:19] <UKC_THOMAS> Alright!
[17:19] <UKC_THOMAS> Does this look alright to you? http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=UKC_WTM5
[17:19] <fsphil> but you should be fine
[17:19] <UKC_THOMAS> It's inside my house, seems there is a bit of fluctuation in my coordinates
[17:20] <fsphil> that's fairly normal, gps is pretty noisy
[17:21] <fsphil> do check: http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:common_coding_errors_payload_testing
[17:21] <fsphil> just in case
[17:21] <UKC_THOMAS> Cool! Apologies for all the q's it's my first HAB project
[17:21] <UKC_THOMAS> okay
[17:21] <fsphil> brb, doggie walk
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[17:44] <UKC_THOMAS> Anyone know why my strings aren't being parsed? http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[17:44] <UKC_THOMAS> They were fine earlier before I created the flight docs
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[17:50] <UKC_THOMAS> (seems to be working again)
[17:53] <Upu> no lock
[17:54] <UKC_THOMAS> thanks dont know how i didnt notice that
[17:57] <mfa298> where are you planning on launching from UKC_THOMAS ?
[18:02] <Upu> yeah make sure you notice that one before you launch
[18:05] <daveake> As seen earlier this week, launching without a lock can have serious consequences, number 1 of which is the amount of derision inflicted next time the launcher shows up here :-)
[18:10] <mfa298> assuming there are some other flights in between now and your flight it could be worth trying to track them (assuming you havn't already tracked a real flight).
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[18:22] <UKC_THOMAS> mfa298: University of Kent, Canterbury
[18:23] <UKC_THOMAS> I might do, I'm still working on my receiver because I'm assuming the stock receiver for the sldr antenna won't work
[18:23] <UKC_THOMAS> for those ranges
[18:23] <UKC_THOMAS> unless im wrong?
[18:25] <fsphil> it's a bit naff
[18:26] <UKC_THOMAS> I have a GSM module as backup transmitter, just trying to work out how to enable roaming with AT commands and I'm done with programming
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[18:30] <Reb-SM3ULC> Evening!
[18:31] <UKC_THOMAS> Hi!
[18:32] <Reb-SM3ULC> UKC_THOMAS: sldr?
[18:33] <UKC_THOMAS> rtl-sdr*
[18:35] <Reb-SM3ULC> UKC_THOMAS: ah, the stock is good for maybe 30-50 km at best
[18:36] <Reb-SM3ULC> UKC_THOMAS: nice dipole in good place, about 300 km
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[18:46] <UKC_THOMAS> Reb-SM3ULC: Ok, my Uni should have one of those... would you recommend tracking and driving at the same time or wait for it to be stationary and then go get it?
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[18:48] <daveake> Best to get somewhere close to where it's about to land
[18:48] <daveake> On Thursday I went for the nearest hill and parked up at the top; we got telemetry all the way to the ground
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[18:51] <barny> can anyone recommend the distance between payload, parachute and balloon
[18:55] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its normally quite a few metres 10m on each part
[18:56] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> longer length slows down the pendulam speeds
[18:57] <barny> thanks
[18:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I thought th't find it at the momentere wasn't an item on the wiki but can
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[18:57] <LazyLeopard> It's often suggested that there's a one-third/two-thirds split between balloon, parachute and payload.
[18:58] <LazyLeopard> ...so that the remnants of the balloon don't wrap round the payload when it's descending under the chute.
[18:59] <LazyLeopard> ...always assuming things don't get twangled while the whole lot's in freefall up where there's not a lot of air...
[19:00] <barny> thanks
[19:01] <LazyLeopard> If you look for videos of launches you'll get an idea of lengths.
[19:01] <daveake> I do balloon - 5m - chute - 10m - payload
[19:01] <daveake> Some swap those lengths
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[19:05] <aadamson> daveake, for your next mission, you can include *live signage* :) - http://www.arachnidlabs.com/blog/2014/03/15/introducing-the-minishift/
[19:06] <daveake> Well, next one has text overlays on the SSDV
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[19:10] <barny> i've a pawan 1600g but have been using hwoyee 1600g on habhub burst calculator as the pawan 1600 is not available, does anyone know how this will affect the calculations
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[19:14] <mfa298> UKC_THOMAS: you might want to check what predictions give for launching from there I suspect most of the time it'll be heading towards the continent
[19:15] <Pascend-Jonny> barny, as far as I can tell, there isn't any/much difference between them, your best bet would be to find another burst calculator that has both the pawan and the hwoyee balloonbs and see if there is any difference
[19:15] <UKC_THOMAS> mfa298: I checked, it tends to go to Amsterdam and further on... I'm therefore planning on having a very short flight and try to keep it inside the UK
[19:15] <UKC_THOMAS> thinking of a 200g balloon with a 1.2kg payload
[19:21] <barny> Pascend-Jonny: Thanks
[19:22] <jededu> Just a question why cant you connect the bottom of the chute cord at say 10m above the payload and the and the payload 5m above that so that the balloon remnants drop below the chute on descent
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[19:24] <UKC_THOMAS> Where do you guys order your parachutes from? Are there generic ones, does it matter which one I get?
[19:25] <x-f> size matters
[19:25] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Parachutes.html
[19:26] <DL1SGP> even though x-f's statement of size matters conflicting with me liking impact craters.... I agree, size matters
[19:26] <daveake> I like the spherachute ones
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[19:27] <jededu> 01 Try again Just a question why cant you connect the bottom of the chute cord at say 10m above the payload and the and the balloon 5m above that so that the balloon remnants drop below the chute on descent
[19:28] <mfa298> UKC_THOMAS: it may be worth getting an hourly predictor setup if you havnt already (ask in #habhub)
[19:29] <mfa298> trying a fast ascent rate (7m/s) at the moment has it landing in france!
[19:29] <daveake> jededu That's exactly what's done
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[19:30] <UKC_THOMAS> Thanks, I'm getting a 10m/s descent rate with the cheapest chute... would that be okay?
[19:30] <UKC_THOMAS> mfa298: Thanks, will do
[19:30] <mfa298> NO
[19:30] <daveake> no more than 5 maybe 6 m/s please
[19:30] Action: x-f keeps DL1SGP's mouth shut. :)
[19:31] <UKC_THOMAS> OK
[19:31] <UKC_THOMAS> thanks hah
[19:31] <mfa298> ask your self the question: would I be happy with my payload landing on my greenhouse/ car/ head at 10m/s
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[19:32] <jededu> I thought the chute was inline so the balloon was attached to the top of the chute and the payload at the bottom ?
[19:32] <aadamson> for those doing pico on l92/l91 batteries what are you using to *hold* the battery and or affix it wiring to the buck/boost controller?
[19:33] <UKC_THOMAS> Thanks, I managed to find a suitable chute :) Any idea what would be a decent website to order the balloon/helium from?
[19:33] <mfa298> ballon from the same place as the chute
[19:35] <daveake> jededu yes, inline, so it opens and so it doesn't get twisted with cord on the way up
[19:35] <daveake> When I used helium I bought from balloonhelium.co.uk
[19:35] <mfa298> if your at uni talk to the chemistry/engineering depts about gas chances are that's the cheapest you'll find
[19:35] <daveake> ^ this
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[19:37] <chrisstubbs> aadamson, I just solder onto the battery
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[19:38] <aadamson> ah, wondered about that... some of these *don't* like heat, if I had a battery welder it would be one thing, but ok... I'll give that a go, I have a metcal soldering iron that uses RF and heats instantly so maybe I'll be ok
[19:39] <UKC_THOMAS> thanks!
[19:41] <jededu> So the balloon remnants and cord falls over a section the chute when it bursts and makes it unstable ?
[19:41] <Pascend-Jonny> jededu: what size balloon are you using?
[19:41] <mfa298> UKC_THOMAS: you might want to seriously think about a different launch location: This is trying a kaymont 200g balloon with 1.2Kg payload (5.5m/s ascent, 5m/s descent, 13km burst) http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=2e72b8d487c0790b450302613d7d253977d49c79
[19:42] <mfa298> that's based on next weekend.
[19:42] <jededu> 1600
[19:42] <mfa298> if you did it tomorrow it would be in France - with the same values
[19:42] <Pascend-Jonny> jededu: is this your first launch then?
[19:43] <jededu> Yes
[19:43] <UKC_THOMAS> mfa298: thanks, i saw that as well... was thinking about something like this: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=1d3307b65dbfe89536d806625dd819983c558a22
[19:45] <mfa298> I suspect most people here wouldn't want to fly a prediction that close to sea. if anything is slightly out you probably wont get it back
[19:46] <Pascend-Jonny> jededu: When the balloon bursts you are left with (I think) less than 1/3 of the balloon, if you have your parachute attached between your parachute and your payload then it will start filling with air as soon as the balloon bursts so when the balloon falls it will just hang against the side of the parachute but the parachute will not be effected by this
[19:46] <Pascend-Jonny> jededu: I hope that made sense
[19:46] <mfa298> also have you tried the numbers in the calc - 10m/s with kaymont 200 and 1.2KG payload says time to burst -7min at -5km
[19:47] <UKC_THOMAS> mfa298: most of my family lives in Holland, alternatively I could try to plan it so it lands over there..
[19:47] <UKC_THOMAS> hold up let me try
[19:47] <jededu> All the hardware and software is working I was just thinking about the cord effect on the chute
[19:47] <mfa298> ok, sticking in 8m/s the calc spits out 10m/s @2.8km although that hardly seems worth it.
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[19:49] <mfa298> personally I'd move the launch further inland - the wind tends to blow towards the east and/or south so launching in the SE corner of the country may not be the best idea.
[19:49] <jededu> And why you couldnt connect it in a different way but if it works why try and change a tried and tested formula
[19:49] <UKC_THOMAS> mfa298: I get what you mean, v true and I should probably see if I can launch it from Cambridge.. thing is I've already applied to release it from here
[19:50] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:51] <DL1SGP> Guten Abend BSc Kevin :D
[19:51] <mfa298> I'm sure if you found an alternate site you could probably ask for the application to be moved. if the hourly gets setup you should geta better idea of what could happen.
[19:51] <Pascend-Jonny> jededu: we did a similar launch just last week with a 1600g balloon as a project funded by a local engineering company, we attached our balloon above our parachute and there was no problem because the parachute starts to fill with air instantly so when the balloon does fall, the parachute is already full of air before the balloon falls onto the chute
[19:52] <fsphil> Pascend-Jonny: how did the other launch go, if it did at all?
[19:52] <daveake> Also the balloon doesn't always fall on the chute
[19:52] <Lunar_Lander> danke felix :)
[19:53] <UKC_THOMAS> mfa298: Ok, I've just ordered the parachute and it works out at 5 m/s. As for the balloon, http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons.html , i think I'm going to order the 350g Pawan. I'm going to talk to CUSF on Mon and see if I can launch it from Cambridge I guess
[19:55] <Pascend-Jonny> fsphil: absolutely amazing, the go pro we where using still had full charge when it landed so we even got film of the farmer who picked it up. We even got a good view of the balloon bursting. You can see some of our footage on our fb page if you're interested https://www.facebook.com/teamascend
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[19:55] <fsphil> did the sponsor do another launch the next day?
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> Pascend-Jonny, the farmer's name was Armstrong?
[19:56] Action: Lunar_Lander is amazed
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:57] <DL7AD> good evening
[19:57] <Pascend-Jonny> fsphil: yeah, they sponsored 2 teams of teenagers, ours from cockermouth and the other from west lakes academy. West lakes was only using an sms tracker though and they had pretty bad weather
[19:57] <Pascend-Jonny> Lunar_Lander: yes it was :D
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> hi DL1SGP
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> DL7AD I meant
[19:58] <fsphil> did they recover it?
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:58] <DL7AD> fsphil: got an answere?
[20:00] <fsphil> having fun with arduino DL7AD. I swear it doesn't like me
[20:00] <fsphil> or humans in general
[20:01] <Pascend-Jonny> fsphil: luckily West Lakes balloon came down somewhere with signal (York) and they said that they weren't going to be collecting it until the weekend but we haven't heard anything from them yet and we also know that they weren't 100% sure the camera was on before they launched
[20:01] <DL7AD> fsphil: i mean did you find your programmer....
[20:01] <DL7AD> ?
[20:01] <fsphil> DL7AD: oh yes, found and connected
[20:01] <fsphil> I was able to read the existing firmware
[20:01] <fsphil> Pascend-Jonny: eek
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[20:01] <fsphil> that's a terrible plan
[20:02] <DL7AD> fsphil: and does the dominoEX code work?
[20:02] <fsphil> DL7AD: arduino won't run for me yet
[20:02] <Pascend-Jonny> fsphil: hahaha, when you planning on launching your balloon?
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[20:02] <fsphil> I think my copy of java is broken
[20:02] <fsphil> Pascend-Jonny: the plan at the moment is next saturday
[20:02] <Pascend-Jonny> fsphil: cool, what kit you got in your payload?
[20:03] Action: DL1SGP gives fsphil some java-super-glue
[20:03] <DL1SGP> any specific errors that you are getting fsphil ?
[20:03] <fsphil> I'm getting some really odd predictions at the moment: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=07eab1021f09e444790fe2a46991aeeabef21535
[20:04] <fsphil> this is a float prediction, and the green dot is where it runs out of wind data
[20:04] <fsphil> but I've never seen a float at 35km heading west before
[20:04] <fsphil> DL1SGP: I'll try again, sec
[20:05] <Pascend-Jonny> fsphil: could you try using a different burst predictor and then just putting the information into the landing predictor manually?
[20:05] <jcoxon> oh they do do that
[20:05] <DL1SGP> looks like it wants to return home fsphil make sure to take your psasport if you wanna retrieve it
[20:05] <fsphil> Pascend-Jonny: very basic, Pi+PiCam and ntx2. sending live images
[20:05] <fsphil> jcoxon: oh yes! the summer wind reversal?
[20:05] <jcoxon> http://nstar.org/GFS/10mb/10mb.096.png
[20:05] <fsphil> I forgot about that
[20:05] <jcoxon> yes its happened
[20:05] <fsphil> Transat!
[20:05] <fsphil> backwards
[20:06] <jcoxon> woop woop
[20:06] <fsphil> if this wasn't a school launch I'd try it
[20:06] <fsphil> actually they might want to give it a go
[20:07] <fsphil> even though the odds of reaching canada are pretty remote
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[20:11] <Pascend-Jonny> fsphil: What are you using for receiving back on the ground?
[20:15] <fsphil> at the launch site probably a Yaesu FT817
[20:15] <fsphil> I would use a Funcube Dongle but I'm having software issues atm
[20:15] <fsphil> keep the 817 as a backup
[20:16] <Pascend-Jonny> fsphil: we used a funcube, what are your problems?
[20:17] <fsphil> the audio link between gqrx (the SDR program I use) and dl-fldigi is terrible. keeps breaking the audio
[20:17] <fsphil> basically, Pulseaudio
[20:17] <Pascend-Jonny> fsphil: are you running on a mac?
[20:18] <fsphil> linux
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[20:27] <Pascend-Jonny> fsphil: when we where first testing our tracking we were using a tv dongle and gqrx worked fine with that but when we tried using the funcube dongle we experienced the same problems. In the end, we used a piece of software called sdr radio. Not sure if there is a linux version though
[20:29] <mikestir> fsphil: I did find the specific pulseaudio bug that causes that samplerate issue, and it's fixed
[20:29] <mikestir> not sure if it's found its way into any of the distros yet though
[20:29] <mikestir> I couldn't be bothered building it - too many dependencies
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[20:43] <LazyLeopard> I need to try to figure out how to get the FCD working with dl-fldigi on ubuntu sometime...
[20:44] <LazyLeopard> ...but my 817 setup usually just works.
[20:50] <mfa298> LazyLeopard: I think the software you need is gnuradio + gqrx, but pulse audio seems to cause lots of people issues.
[20:50] <mfa298> So far I've stuck to real radio (ft817) on linux or sdr on windows.
[20:50] <LazyLeopard> Oh, I got gnuradio built.
[20:51] <LazyLeopard> ...and gqrx
[20:52] <LazyLeopard> It's the frigging and froddling needed to get the output into dl-fldigi I've not hacked yet...
[20:52] <jcoxon> gqrx + soundflower + dl-fldigi
[20:52] <jcoxon> mac only though
[20:52] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[20:53] <LazyLeopard> My Mac's a bit aged. Hadn't considered using the FCD with it...
[20:53] <LazyLeopard> ...but it's a thought.
[20:54] <Pascend-Jonny> we found the mac the easiest to get it set up on
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[20:57] <mikestir> anyone here used an avr dragon?
[20:58] <arko> yes
[20:58] <arko> i've blown up the 30v power regulator on there too
[20:58] <arko> <-- pro
[20:58] <mikestir> does it only work with avr studio?
[20:59] <mikestir> I got one as a freebie and I've never used it, but I have an intermittent hang in an avr project I'm working on, so now might be the time!
[21:00] <arko> ive only ever used it with atmel studiio
[21:00] <arko> and avr studio
[21:00] <arko> i dont think it plays nice with avrdude
[21:01] <arko> wait yeah it can
[21:01] <arko> http://www.ladyada.net/learn/avr/avrdude.html
[21:01] <arko> dragon_isp = Atmel AVR Dragon in ISP mode [C:\WinAVR\bin\avrdude.conf:470]
[21:01] <arko> never use it before, but i cant imagine it'd be hard
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> arko, what happened to that regulator?
[21:01] <mikestir> doesn't look like it supports debugging though
[21:02] <mikestir> (avrdude)
[21:02] <mikestir> I can tolerate using atmel studio on windows for that, but the project is gcc/makefile based
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[21:05] <arko> dragon_dw = Atmel AVR Dragon in debugWire mode [C:\WinAVR\bin\avrdude.conf:494]
[21:06] <mikestir> yeah but I think that's still only for programming. Seems there is a program called avarice that works as a gdb proxy
[21:08] <arko> i think the icsp port only suppors debugWire
[21:08] <arko> supports*
[21:08] <arko> you may need to use a jtagice
[21:08] <arko> oh wait, the avr dragon has a jtag port
[21:09] <arko> what chip are you trying to debug?
[21:10] <Laurenceb> RocketBoy: will you be at Oxhill tomorrow?
[21:10] <Laurenceb> Rocketry
[21:19] <mikestir> arko: atmega328 so I think it will need to be debugwire - it looks like it might be possible
[21:20] <arko> i dont think the 328 supports that
[21:20] <arko> i remember looking into this a while back
[21:20] <arko> i hate arduino
[21:20] <arko> sorry :P
[21:20] <arko> the 328 is a big pain to debug
[21:22] <mikestir> so do I - it isn't an arduino
[21:22] <arko> not sure, wish i had a better answer
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[21:23] <mikestir> the other end of the system is stm32 which is much nicer. these boards would be M0+ if the sleep current was just a little bit lower
[21:23] <mikestir> making progress anyway...
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[21:25] <mikestir> works
[21:26] <mikestir> neat. backtrace even works
[21:26] <arko> if its not an arduino, im pretty sure debugwire works
[21:26] <arko> arduino did something stupid with the reset wire if i recall
[21:26] <mikestir> yeah. I had to enable it by changing a fuse, after which my ISP wouldn't talk to it
[21:26] <arko> what did you change?
[21:26] <mikestir> I assume I will be able to change it back with the dragon though
[21:26] <arko> yes
[21:26] <arko> you can set fuses with the dragon
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[21:28] <arko> i assume you set DWEN?
[21:28] <mikestir> yeah
[21:28] <arko> nice
[21:28] <mikestir> then it just worked
[21:28] <fsphil> mikestir: do you have a reference for that? (the samplerate bug)
[21:28] <mikestir> works like openocd - avarice listens on a port and gdb connects as a remote target
[21:28] <fsphil> it would be awesome if it was fixed
[21:28] <mikestir> fsphil: I'd have to go looking. I never made a note of it
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[21:30] <arko> fsphil: whats that bug?
[21:30] <mikestir> probably this: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=66424
[21:31] <fsphil> arko: the audio was getting chopped up between gqrx and dl-fldigi
[21:31] <mikestir> for me it wasn't choppy, but the sample rate was messed up. you could decode 50 baud rtty if you set the baud rate to 45
[21:31] <fsphil> enough to stop it decoding
[21:32] <arko> ohh
[21:32] <arko> nvm
[21:33] <arko> thought it had to do with debug
[21:33] <fsphil> it only seemed to affect when recording from the sound cards output
[21:34] <fsphil> recording via pulseaudio from the line-in or mic worked fine
[21:34] <fsphil> I also used to have this thing where the waterfall in fldigi would start racing at high speed
[21:35] <fsphil> though that hasn't happened in a while
[21:35] <Laurenceb> ive seen that
[21:35] <Laurenceb> it seemed ot be caused by audio data accumulating in a buffer somewhere
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[21:46] <mikestir> the above bug sounds highly likely to be the culprit, but I've not yet bothered building a newer version of pulseaudio to see
[21:47] <mikestir> it may be in some distros by now though
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[21:56] <fsphil> it's not hit F20 yet anyway
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[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> does someone get why the host has to laugh so hard? http://youtu.be/VJsd8uzDCFA?t=1m10s
[22:01] Action: mfa298 wonders how easy it would be to patch into whatever version of pulse F20 is using.
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[22:01] <fsphil> mmmm
[22:01] <fsphil> it would be very simple to rebuild the rpm
[22:01] <mfa298> looks like a fairly small patch so might be reasonably easy to add as a patch to the srpm
[22:01] <craag> It looks to fixed in 4.99/5.0
[22:02] <craag> but neither are set to land in trusty :(
[22:02] <craag> fix isn't one of the few backported either
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> I just got it
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:05] <mikestir> debugging avr with gdb is a real novelty :)
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[22:13] <fsphil> ooooh fancy
[22:13] <fsphil> blinking an LED not good enough for you? :)
[22:15] <mikestir> hey there's a full CLI on there, but it's not much use when it's locked up :)
[22:16] <mikestir> but yes, I've clearly been spending too much time on ARMs
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[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> xD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanfairpwllgwyngyll
[22:51] <amell> [ÌlanvairÌpulawhnÌahlaoÌa[rYÌÇwYrnÌdrobulÌlanthÌsiljoÌaoaoÈaoÐÇ]
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[22:54] <fsphil> "known to locals as Llanfairpwll or Llanfair"
[22:56] <Lunar_Lander> xD yea
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> I love that the city partners are Ee in Holland and Y in France
[22:58] <amell> got an ADS-B feed, but I don't recognise the airlines. is there somewhere i can download icao.txt from?
[22:58] <Pascend-Ross> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/Cy-Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch_%28Welsh_pronunciation%2C_recorded_17-05-2012%29.ogg this is pretty interesting!
[23:00] <amell> oh its a ryanair B737 flying right over
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> amell, Ryanair charge for using there messages they want a fiver for each one intercepted ;-)
[23:01] <Pascend-Ross> XD
[23:01] <amell> lol
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:01] <amell> just seen a 747 cargo go over
[23:02] <amell> my range isn't brilliant. hmm
[23:02] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
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[23:20] <Laurenceb> amell: did you see anything from Malaysia?
[23:20] <amell> unfortunately not.
[23:22] <Laurenceb> i think it was hijacked by Elvis and flown to a soundstage on Mars
[23:22] <amell> Thats as good a theory as any of them...
[23:25] <Pascend-Ross> fsphil: Just seen this XD http://youtu.be/Th8BCFLO9AM
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[23:38] <amell> How do i find out what frequency a balloon is using? it doesn't seem to say on spacenear.us
[23:39] <cm13g09> amell: which balloon?
[23:39] <amell> G-02
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[23:39] <cm13g09> amell: Best bet is read the mailing list
[23:40] <amell> thought it would say in the flight doc
[23:40] <cm13g09> amell: not necessarily....
[23:41] <cm13g09> dl-fldigi might get the info from the Flight Doc
[23:41] <amell> i thought i might hear it as its only about 3 miles away
[23:41] <cm13g09> but I don't think there's necessarily a "requirement" on the freq being in there....
[23:42] <amell> found the mailing list email
[23:42] <amell> 434.125
[23:42] <fsphil> Pascend-Ross: can't be too careful :)
[23:43] <mikestir> it's unlikely you'll hear it over that distance in a built up area
[23:44] <amell> its more or less farmland between me and G-02
[23:44] <mikestir> unless you have a decent antenna clear of the roofline
[23:44] <mikestir> maybe then
[23:44] <mikestir> any buildings in the way make a big difference
[23:46] <amell> well I'm getting something but its sure as hell not rtty
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[00:00] --- Sun Mar 16 2014