highaltitude.log.20140311

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[00:44] <Laurenceb> http://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/hackaday-projects-open-to-public1.png?w=580&h=450
[00:44] <Laurenceb> im sure thats a UK sign stuck on a US road
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[01:05] <Laurenceb> http://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/hackaday-projects-open-to-public1.png?w=580&h=450
[01:05] <Laurenceb> erm
[01:05] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2014/03/10/welcome-to-droning-on/
[01:05] <Laurenceb> is very interesting
[01:05] <Laurenceb> the famous mr trappy
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[07:53] <ibanezmatt13> Of course the winds would be at their worst this Saturday... :P
[07:57] <Joel_re> do you guys depend on the GPS reported altitude or altitude based on the pressure sensor?
[07:59] <x-f> GPS, pressure sensors usually are not reliable above about 12 km altitude
[08:09] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: I'm afraid it's starting to look very unlikely NORB 2 will fly this weekend. http://t.co/vRg1YFp7XC #ukhas #JetstreamStop!
[08:09] <fsphil> :(
[08:10] <ibanezmatt13> 1 more week maybe. Then it'll be week 6 of proposed NORB launches :P
[08:10] <fsphil> this is why my launches are always so late
[08:10] <ibanezmatt13> yea, it's a pain.
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[08:17] <mfa298> I thought the jetstream had gone up to iceland for a holiday (based on the bbc weather last night)
[08:21] <fsphil> for here, the predictions are good-ish today and tomorrow. after that it's Wales
[08:21] <fsphil> which makes a nice change from scotland
[08:21] <fsphil> maybe it's coming back down?
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[08:22] <mfa298> go for a slightly slower ascent and see if you can land it in daveake's/S_Mark's garden
[08:23] <fsphil> I probably could
[08:23] <fsphil> needa figure out that parafoil!
[08:24] <mfa298> then ibanezmatt13/daveake could re-launch it with extra gas and get it to land in hampshire and someone here can relaunch it into france - Hab relay.
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> haha
[08:24] <ibanezmatt13> I'd better not fly the GoPro then :P
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[08:25] <fsphil> hah
[08:25] <fsphil> the last time I tried landing near someone here it ended up in the north sea
[08:25] <fsphil> and I'm pretty sure we've no mermaids here
[08:26] <mfa298> could be an interesting challenge to see how many up/down flights we could do with one payload in quick succession like that.
[08:26] <fsphil> if the predictions show it heading that way I'll certainly try it
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[08:29] <ibanezmatt13> It'd be very impressive if we could send one payload up to multiple destinations and have it flown back to the first person
[08:29] <ibanezmatt13> But the winds aren't that nice
[08:29] <fsphil> rarely
[08:29] <fsphil> but yea it would be a nice trick
[08:32] <ibanezmatt13> Need to finish the new board. At least they'll not mind a bit of jetstream
[08:33] <fsphil> habikaze?
[08:34] <ibanezmatt13> lol, yes :)
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[08:43] <Hade> Can anyone tell me what SP9UOB and SP9UOB-12 are please?
[08:44] <eroomde> balloons
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[08:45] <Hade> lol, thanks for the info.
[08:46] <fsphil> the same balloon even
[08:46] <Hade> Care to provide a project URL or two? Pretty please?
[08:48] <UpuWork> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/hab.html
[08:48] <Hade> Thanks! :)
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[09:15] <LeoBodnar> morning *
[09:18] <cm13g09> LeoBodnar: morning!
[09:24] <fsphil> g'morn
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[10:13] <BaloonYOLO> Will my payload not appear on spacenear.us if the flight doc hasn't been approved yet?
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[10:14] <ibanezmatt13> It will still appear without the flight doc assuming the payload doc is set up correctly
[10:14] <daveake> You just need a working *payload* doc you do not need a flight doc
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[10:15] <BaloonYOLO> Cool, got a working payload doc
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[10:30] <daveake> BaloonYOLO did you change the payload ID ?
[10:32] <BaloonYOLO> Still EALTEST but says "pilot flight 2"
[10:32] <daveake> Oh, sorry, thought yours was the "HABDUINO" one
[10:33] <x-f> now you need a new payload doc for the new payload id - BalYOLO
[10:33] <BaloonYOLO> Yeah Habduino was the callsign, changed to BALYOLO
[10:33] <DL1SGP> good morning everyone :) *sends virtual cuppa to dave*
[10:34] <x-f> upload a few test strings and check if it appears on the map before you yolo
[10:41] <BaloonYOLO> Got slight spacenear.us FOMO
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[11:12] <cuddykid> ping daveake
[11:13] <daveake> pong
[11:13] <cuddykid> daveake: is it ok if I use 434.2 on thursday?
[11:13] <daveake> sure
[11:13] <cuddykid> as far as I'm aware it's just us two with planned launches for thurs atm
[11:14] <daveake> I need a slight change of path as it overflies Swindon
[11:15] <daveake> Mind you, anything crashing in Swindon can't help but improve the place
[11:15] <cuddykid> lol
[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> :-)
[11:15] <cuddykid> mine's a very typical path for this time of year launch - landing near bicester
[11:16] <cm13g09> daveake: HAH
[11:16] <cuddykid> this is all dependant on me building the thing tomorrow
[11:16] <daveake> ditto
[11:16] <cm13g09> that sounds like Jack FM's opinion of Basingstoke....
[11:17] <cuddykid> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=11ff83df4e571d08b8e5a8655c0face0db63d3fc
[11:18] <daveake> M40 excellent
[11:18] <cuddykid> :)
[11:18] <cuddykid> easy retrieval :P
[11:18] <daveake> hah
[11:18] <cuddykid> hopefully no thieves either on the motorway
[11:18] <daveake> :)
[11:25] <WillDWork> hopefully will have my antenna and dongle ready to roll by thurs - then should get both your flights
[11:27] <cuddykid> excellent :)
[11:31] <daveake> Well mine will be headed at you so you should get that pretty easily
[11:31] <craag> daveake: Where's your predicted landing?
[11:31] <daveake> Not far from my old house :p
[11:32] <daveake> 1 zillion hab points for landing at my old launch site
[11:32] <craag> lol yes
[11:32] <daveake> at present http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=4d97be5d29e273ea5b5037b39924459f5a867996
[11:33] <daveake> (not quite the right launch locn there)
[11:33] <craag> Ah nice, I'll be listening the websdr then!
[11:34] <craag> Looks like AMSAT is really liking the websdr, they're tying it to every news story they can now.
[11:35] <eroomde> m5aka seems to exist just to send emails to the list now about tangential things
[11:35] <eroomde> + have strong hammy opinions about things
[11:35] <craag> Heh yes
[11:35] <craag> All from him actually
[11:35] <eroomde> that sattelite applications trebuchet thing was a bit of a joke
[11:35] <craag> s/AMSAT/trevor/
[11:35] <eroomde> 'launch' if a cubesat in this contaxt meant using a tethered balloon
[11:36] <daveake> "lift" then
[11:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Who are "Team Ascend" HAB55331 ?
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[11:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah ha http://projectascend.co.uk/author/teamascend/
[11:46] <daveake> I spy UpuBoxes
[11:46] <eroomde> someone should tell them they're not going into space
[11:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> I thought we were all going to be Praying to start with on that search!
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[11:48] <fsphil> they've a photo of a 434.450 ntx2, which I believe steve is also using tomorrow
[11:49] <fsphil> I've suggested they announce the launch on the mailing list
[11:50] <fsphil> I'll keep my radio running and have a listen for it tomorrow. they're pretty close
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[11:58] <Hix> anyone know if there are any decent multirotor channels out there?
[12:01] <tweetBot> @G7IGB: 434 MHz balloons to launch Wednesday... http://t.co/HDDxEK1DOg #hamradio #ukhas
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[12:02] <gonzo_> multirotor channels?
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[12:45] <Babs____> Ping LeoBodnar
[12:50] <Babs____> Or Upu - dont worry anthony, its not a coding question...
[12:50] <Babs____> Or fsphil - hey, lets throw it open
[12:51] <nats`> ask your question
[12:51] <nats`> it'll be easier...
[12:51] <Babs____> In the ubx protocol, in the 2s complement method, a negative number is given by a leading 1 in the most significant digit - the question i have is
[12:52] <Babs____> Is that leading digit in the ubx protocol a 1 in binary, a 1 in hexadecimal, or a 1 in decimal (once it has been multiplied by 256^3)
[12:52] Action: Geoff-G8DHE waits with baited breath
[12:52] <Babs____> Sorry, woz typing
[12:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its he most significant bit so 0x8 in the highest byte
[12:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> B10000000= -0
[12:54] <Babs____> And why 8 in hex then?
[12:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> binary 1000 000 = 0x80
[12:55] <Babs____> 8*16 = 128 - got it - cheers
[12:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> missed a 0 b1000 0000 = 0x80
[12:55] <Babs____> Thanks Geoff-G8DHE
[12:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> nps
[12:56] <Babs____> Helpfully I am left of the meridian so can test it later
[12:56] <Babs____> Would be a royal pain to physically test it if I lived in Norwich
[12:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> Use the programmers mode in the windows Claculator
[12:56] <fsphil> imagine how I feel :)
[12:56] <mfa298> you can probably find some good descriptions online as to how 2-s compliment numbers work - as well as the various other methods for signed numbers
[12:57] <Babs____> Although if I lived in Norwich, perhaps testing code for a negative longitude output would be the least of my problems
[12:57] <Babs____> Fsphil - take a slow boat southwards and you could test the neg lat too
[12:57] <Babs____> Thanks chaps
[12:58] <LeoBodnar> hey Babs____
[12:58] <fsphil> if you store your ubx values (32-bit I believe?) in an int32_t type it should just work
[12:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Strikes me we could do with a test set of NMEA data doing a spiral around the meridian working out to beyond +/- 1 degree
[12:58] <Babs____> Hey leobodnar - got the answer, but thanks for coming on
[12:59] <LeoBodnar> cool
[12:59] <Babs____> Fsphil - how would I do that? Yes, in uint32_t
[13:00] <mfa298> if you use int32_t instead of uint32_t it should just work (I think), int32_t is signed, uint32_t is unsigned.
[13:00] <Babs____> Surely I would do the test on the just the leading 2 digit hex ?
[13:00] <fsphil> https://github.com/ProjectSwift/swift/blob/master/gps.c#L37-L42
[13:00] <fsphil> I wrote a helper to read 32-bit values from a ubx response
[13:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Shift left and check the carry flag
[13:01] <Babs____> Cool! Will take a look
[13:01] <fsphil> if you're not familiar with bit shifting then that might look odd
[13:02] <Babs____> It looks odd
[13:02] <fsphil> lol
[13:02] <Babs____> :-)
[13:02] <Babs____> I will work it out
[13:02] <Babs____> Ta
[13:02] <fsphil> it's not too bad if you visualise it as bits
[13:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Time for lunch AFK
[13:03] <Hix> you Babs____ see this? http://vimeo.com/88424465
[13:04] <Hix> s/you/yo
[13:05] <Babs____> Hey hix - did you see the fruits of your machining contact on my flickr page?
[13:10] <Hix> no Babs____ got a link? or is it just babbers
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[13:12] <Babs____> Just babbers as normal - in the 2017 high altitude set
[13:12] <Babs____> I'm planning a long way in advance
[13:12] <Hix> :D
[13:13] <Hix> cool Babs____ its real an everyfink
[13:13] <Hix> whats the a.u.w?
[13:14] <Babs____> I can tell you when I know what auw is
[13:14] <Hix> all up weight
[13:16] <Hix> looks really nice. Good work. CNC ftw
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[13:17] <Babs____> 480g as you see it, but the motors are 320g of that
[13:18] <Babs____> The actual thing itself is pretty light
[13:18] <Hix> cool. have you got the code working nicely?
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[13:28] <Babs____> No, still building up to it. I have some nice code working now to poll the ubx which everyone has been helpful with
[13:29] <Babs____> Once I get the latitude and longitude in the right form, then the bearing establishment should be easy
[13:29] <Babs____> The board to drive the motors I am buying in, and all I need to control it is supply 3 varying voltages of between 0 and 5 volts
[13:29] <Babs____> Which I should be able to do from my tracker board
[13:30] <Hix> cool. looks like its going to be great once complete
[13:30] <Babs____> Did you like my spot gimbal ? Was quite pleased with that one
[13:30] <Babs____> That's going to be. Backup satellite tracker
[13:30] <Hix> yup - looks like it'll do the trick nicely.
[13:32] <Hix> lately I've been distracted with the design ang gaining of necessary permissions for a proper wood fired pompeii oven for the garden. I've got approval, which seems to have been harder than getting a NOTAM in the centre of London
[13:33] <eroomde> having a pizza oven will be mega win
[13:33] <Hix> not just pizza though :D loads of lovely food
[13:34] <mfa298> now we just need a conference venue near to Hix and food is sorted :p
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[13:35] <Hix> :D - something like this, http://goo.gl/iA87Hy I think it was the mosaic tiledexterior that finally gained the permission
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[13:59] <eroomde> mfa298: you seem to know about things like this: what's a decent brand for a dual PCIe gigabit nic?
[14:01] <mfa298> I would tend to buy intel nics
[14:01] <eroomde> cool
[14:01] <eroomde> that's what i had in mind
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[14:01] <mfa298> broadcom are probably ok these days but they used to be a bit iffy with Linux - but that was quite a few years ago.
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[14:01] <eroomde> all the dual ones seem to be per servers which, so far as i can tell, means you can charge >=2x the price of 2 non-server NICs
[14:02] <mfa298> you can sometimes find better prices on ebay although that's probably only sensible for home use.
[14:03] <eroomde> tis for work
[14:03] <eroomde> i shall get the intel one
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> Some of the intel ones have nice features - like reassembling tcp/ip streams on their own
[14:05] <SpeedEvil> Which can really offload work on really high throughputs
[14:05] <mfa298> I think when I've wanted something special I've usually looked at the intel site first to work out which are the sets of models that fit the purpose MT/GT/PT/... then search for those on reputable retailers.
[14:05] <eroomde> what's the diff between MT and PT?
[14:06] <mfa298> I can't remember what the differences are now, it's been a while since I last looked at them.
[14:06] <cm13g09> afternoon mfa298
[14:07] <eroomde> pci express vs pci-x
[14:07] <eroomde> apparently
[14:08] <mfa298> there's probably some other ?T variants now.
[14:08] <mfa298> afternoon cm13g09
[14:09] <mfa298> this might be a good starting point http://ark.intel.com/products/family/46829
[14:09] <cm13g09> ah, the Intel Ark
[14:10] <eroomde> so i think i want PT
[14:10] <eroomde> pci-e, copper physical medium
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[14:11] <eroomde> i will try one on my work machine
[14:11] <eroomde> and then if it works, put one on my nat box at homer
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[14:12] <mfa298> PT Dual port looked to be the sensible and not super expensive option.
[14:12] <eroomde> yep
[14:13] <mfa298> I suspect the I350-T2 has lots of nice offload features for things like iSCSI or FCoE which business might like but you're probably not worried about
[14:13] <fsphil> +1 on the intels. they just work
[14:13] <cm13g09> fsphil, mfa298 I'd 3rd that ;)
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[14:13] <eroomde> mfa298: indeed, this is to run an sdr on a dedicated network, along with normal network stuff
[14:14] <eroomde> which is low volume
[14:14] <mfa298> the ET might be suitable and not to expensive as well.
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[14:51] <x-f> offtopic, game: http://gabrielecirulli.github.io/2048/
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[16:03] <DL7AD> good afternoon
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[16:19] <projectascend-ro> Hi guys, looking good for a launch tomorrow! We were wondering if there is a method of using an offline software map, and loading in coordinates from dlfldigi to allow us to track offline?
[16:21] <daveake1> projectascend-ro Not really.
[16:21] <daveake1> While you're here, what frequency is your tracker on?
[16:22] <projectascend-ro> ah okay. We are currently on 434.450
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[16:23] <UpuWork> are you anywhere near the UK projectascend-ro ?
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[16:23] <UpuWork> because there is a payload on 434.450 tommorrow alreayd
[16:23] <UpuWork> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
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[16:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Doesnt the HAB Modem and Tracker rely on previouslt downloaded maps ? HAB Modem and Tracker
[16:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.brejza.matt.habmodem
[16:26] <projectascend-ro> right, so I take it that means we can't use it then!
[16:26] <projectascend-ro> without interference anyway.
[16:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> You need to co-ordinate times at least.
[16:27] <projectascend-ro> right okay, I should probably go here then! https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ukhas/Sk8VRHt2eKw/o6vgZFD7hhIJ
[16:28] <daveake> Geoff-G8DHE yes you're quite right I forgot about that (again :p)
[16:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup, you need to co-ord with Steve G8HKW or Rocketboy when he is on the IRC
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[16:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> hello there
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[16:49] <daveake> He's gone to find another landing spot
[17:05] <fsphil> 60 seconds
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[17:05] <fsphil> he better hurry up or his fuel will run out!
[17:06] <daveake> 1201
[17:06] <daveake> 1202
[17:13] <projectascend-ro> we are planing on launching around 9, does this mean that if steve is launching around 11 we should be okay, or at least more ok? I suppose there are more factors to consider!
[17:15] <daveake> Sounds a bit tight especially as launches often end up an hour later than planned, Best speak to him really.
[17:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> His number is in one of the posts
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[17:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[17:21] Action: mfa298 must remember to do proper bounds checking before assigning stuff through pointers in C
[17:21] Action: mfa298 bangs head against desk
[17:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> That sounds like a Pointer to FAIL ;-)
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[17:26] <mfa298> and I spent ages working out why my code had suddenly stopped working properly. turns out I was overwriting memory I shouldn't be, that memory being used by a different variable.
[17:27] <mfa298> hoepfully that random bug is now fixed.
[17:27] Action: mfa298 wonders what the next random bug will be
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[17:40] <g0pai_ian_> does anyone use a header to mount NTX2 /B transmitters in their tracker to allow last minute QSY when faced with freq planning colisions ?
[17:40] <eroomde> no
[17:41] <eroomde> my appraoch was always to brow-beat the clasher into submission
[17:41] <g0pai_ian_> Short and sweet, Tnx
[17:41] <g0pai_ian_> I guess that you declare the freq is to be in use early and stand by your guns.
[17:41] <eroomde> yes
[17:41] <eroomde> it was never actually much of an issue
[17:42] <g0pai_ian_> No 400W ragchewing!
[17:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> connectors have a tendency to fail ....
[17:42] <eroomde> and the new generation of ntxusses should be programmabley frequency-agile
[17:42] <eroomde> which will also solve the problem
[17:42] <mattbrejza> if its a old gen ntx2 you can shift the freq by a few kHz with the trimmer under the sticker
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[17:43] <eroomde> hopefully directly into some repeater input frequency
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[17:43] <g0pai_ian_> I did think of the possibility of an NTX2B hanging on grimley after a balloon burst and high G deceleration
[17:43] <g0pai_ian_> That would be xxx.650 from the mail . . . tsk tsk
[17:44] <mattbrejza> you could always send a 33Hz tone in betweeen packets to easy indicate the gps has lock...
[17:44] <eroomde> jolly good idea
[17:44] <g0pai_ian_> That's new to me too
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[17:50] <DL7AD> hi
[17:50] <DL7AD> daveake: ping
[17:50] <daveake> pung
[17:55] <LeoBodnar> you can even declare it on the day and still stand by your guns
[17:55] <craag> Even after the launch, looking at no-one in particular..
[17:56] <DL7AD> daveake: you had an manual on your webpage how to configure the serial conector on a raspberry but i cant find it anymore. do you stilll have it on your website?
[17:58] <daveake> Did I? I use http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/raspberry-pi-serial-port
[17:59] <DL7AD> daveake: i thought you did ^^ but i was unsure.
[17:59] <daveake> Might have linked to that sometime; not sure
[18:04] <daveake> With a bit of effort, I could get Thursday's flight to land almost at my previous home http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=9c4bd1918461682db7e81356b452ffe052649652
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[18:08] <DL7AD> daveake: thx :)
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[18:13] <mfa298> although annoyingly I've found you still get one message on bootup on the serial console that you can't turn off - unless you modify the kernel and recompile.
[18:13] <mfa298> although not a huge issue for hab use of the serial port
[18:15] <craag> Especially as that would be at some massive baudrate that's probably filtered out by the NTX2
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[18:15] <mfa298> 115k baud I think, and it just says something like "uncompressing linux"
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[18:16] <mfa298> you can turn off the rest of the kernel boot messages, just not that one.
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[18:34] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:10] <keydash> hellooo
[19:13] <fsphil> evening
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[19:44] <projectascend-ro> looks like steve just pulled his launch. Should I do a post to the mailing list announcing our launch + details etc?
[19:44] <eroomde> yes
[19:45] <eroomde> def
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[19:51] <mfa298> always a good idea to announce it otherwise people potentially won't know it's happening.
[19:54] <fsphil> if you can it would be great if you or someone else on the team drop by the channel to tell us it's been launched
[19:54] <fsphil> or delayed
[19:54] <daveake_> that never happens
[19:54] Nick change: daveake_ -> daveake
[19:55] <fsphil> yes I've never delayed. just been intentionally late
[19:56] <x-f> you have to follow the approved procedure
[19:58] <mfa298> not delayed just in the ISH timezone.
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[20:01] <LunarMobile> Good this works too
[20:02] <fsphil> You didn't go with LunarRover
[20:02] <Lunar_Lander> good idea
[20:02] <x-f> why do you need different nicknames anyway?
[20:02] Nick change: LunarMobile -> LunarRover
[20:03] <eroomde> gotta get some entropy somehow
[20:03] <LunarRover> Because to differentiate the places and devices
[20:03] <mfa298> just have one always on client and connect to that from wherever you are.
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[20:06] <LunarRover> Yea
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[20:15] <Upu> hey projectascend-ro
[20:15] <Upu> just added you to the spacenear.us info panel
[20:15] <Upu> do you have a flight doc done ?
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[20:18] <projectascend-ro> Thanks, yes I believe so. It wasnt done by me but we have been showing up on spacenear so I'm assuming that is ok?
[20:19] <Upu> thats the payload document
[20:19] <Upu> there is also (sorry for the paperwork) a flight doc
[20:19] <Upu> this means people get your flight in the drop down list in dl-fldigi
[20:19] <projectascend-ro> ahh okay, have you got a link for that?
[20:20] <Upu> it also lets you export data for the "flight" and also allows some 3rd party tools like the rotator controller "track" your payload
[20:20] <Upu> http://habitat.habhub.org/genpayload/
[20:20] <Upu> flight docs
[20:20] <Upu> just tap in the data, pick the payload doc and let me have the resulting document ID and I'll approve it
[20:21] <projectascend-ro> ok thanks
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[20:24] <projectascend-ro> Okay, should be done!
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[20:28] <Upu> ok cool approved
[20:28] <Upu> good luck tommorrow
[20:29] <Upu> try stay on here if you can and you'll be guided in
[20:29] <Upu> got any predictions ?
[20:30] <fsphil> I may actually receive this one before it gets to 5km
[20:30] <eroomde> by the year 2000, we will all work from home
[20:30] <fsphil> eroomde: they may have meant that we'll work so much we basically just live there
[20:31] <Upu> in my blind spot I think, hence me asking about prediction
[20:34] <projectascend-ro> sorry, looking like landing right on raf leeming atm!
[20:34] <Upu> yeah you may want to avoid that
[20:35] <projectascend-ro> might see if I give them a ring?
[20:35] <Upu> lets see the prediciton
[20:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> That will give them sum gunnery practice!
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[20:36] <projectascend-ro> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=ae653d1b2500fa8e8073031e12093bc2d94904ae
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[20:37] <fsphil> bit near the dales!
[20:37] <torq> Was going to be a lot of launches tomorrow!
[20:37] <torq> Noticed conflicting frequencies too
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[20:38] <projectascend-ro> Steve(Rocketboy) isnt launching anymore so I think we are good frequency wise...Brb going for tea
[20:39] <torq> Yes. Shame as I was going to help Steve launch. At least this way my aerial will be here in time!
[20:42] <Upu> I'm predicting if you launch that you won't get to it before it lands
[20:42] <Upu> I would put a little more gas in it get the ascent rate up and take your chances with the Dales
[20:43] <torq> The dales are a nice place to land
[20:43] <Upu> to land yes to recover not always
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[20:44] <fsphil> keep an eye out for a silver box if you do land there :)
[20:45] <Upu> lol
[20:45] Action: fsphil is ever hopeful
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[20:47] <projectascend-ro> haha, will do! And we have got a bit extra so we'll probably just stick some more in
[20:48] <Upu> whats the balloon ?
[20:51] <projectascend-ro> 1200g Hwoyee
[20:52] <Upu> hmm ok
[20:52] <Upu> whats the payload weight ?
[20:54] <projectascend-ro> 1.5kg
[20:54] <daveake> sounds like 40km to me :p
[20:55] <Upu> lol yeah
[20:55] <eroomde> i'm gonna say nearer 35
[20:55] <Upu> I don't even know what to suggest really
[20:55] <Upu> Hwoyees are wonderfully random at the best of times
[20:55] <daveake> So am I, but one that upu and I flew managed it
[20:55] <eroomde> you are wonderfully random?
[20:56] <Upu> I believe I am
[20:56] <Upu> Firstly
[20:56] <Upu> I wouldn't go for such a slow ascent rate
[20:56] <Upu> aim for 5.5
[20:56] <Upu> secondly I would suggest it may go slightly higher
[20:57] <Upu> I don't think it will do 40km
[20:57] <daveake> nope
[20:57] <Upu> that harks back to the days someone at Hwoyee was sprinkling magic altitude dust in the latex mix
[20:57] <eroomde> :)
[20:57] <Upu> but I would assume it will do 36km
[20:57] <Upu> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=80af24e305f08e34458bfaa22736a14303cd0bf6
[20:58] <Upu> my concern is
[20:58] <Upu> if you don't get 5.5m/s
[20:58] <Upu> you're going to land on the A1
[20:58] <Upu> and/or Topcliffe RAF base / parachute center
[20:59] <projectascend-ro> XD
[20:59] <eroomde> when you wish upon an ascent-rate // makes no difference how you calculate // anything your path desires // will come to float
[20:59] <Upu> what gas cylinder do you ahve ?
[20:59] <Upu> lol Ed
[20:59] <eroomde> to the tune of disney
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[21:00] <Upu> and I would dump anything from that 1.5kg that isn't needed
[21:00] <Upu> if you have hand warmers use them to keep your hands warm on the ground but don't put them in the payload
[21:01] <Upu> my concern is if you don't get that ascent rate up its possibly landing locations are all a bit iffy
[21:01] <Upu> possible
[21:01] <projectascend-ro> okay, we arent using hand warmers either
[21:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is the change of camera going to increase the weight ?
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[21:03] Nick change: cardre_ -> cardre
[21:06] <Upu> whats the gas cylinder you have ? BOC T ?
[21:07] <projectascend-ro> It's being rechanged. Such a joke right now! The other team have got our battery that was ordered they just havent informed us untill now! We have to now drive about an hour to pick it up!
[21:08] <projectascend-ro> its a BOC 3.6 cubic meters
[21:08] <daveake> not enough for 1200g balloon and 1.5kg
[21:08] <daveake> (he says without running the calc)
[21:08] <daveake> sounds very marginal
[21:09] <Upu> Ok I would agree
[21:09] <projectascend-ro> grrrr 17 people! Loose weight then?
[21:09] <Upu> even if you put all the gas in
[21:09] <Upu> you're going to be marginal
[21:09] <daveake> all the gas won't get you 5m/s
[21:10] <daveake> calc says 4.75
[21:10] <Upu> and below 5m/s you're edging towards the A1 and the RAF bases
[21:10] <daveake> which for non-float is fine but see ^^
[21:10] <daveake> and I've used a 3.6 and run out of gas on a <1kg payload and 1000g balloon
[21:11] <Upu> Three options : 1/ Pospone 2/ Loose 1kg of payload 3/ Get more gas
[21:11] <daveake> 4/ smaller balloon
[21:11] <eroomde> there is some honour in 2
[21:11] <eroomde> if you're into placating aeolus
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[21:12] <Upu> I had to google Aeolus there :)
[21:12] <Upu> good name for a payload
[21:13] <eroomde> already taken
[21:13] <eroomde> (by me)
[21:13] <projectascend-ro> loose a kg! hmmm, this is gonna be tricky
[21:13] <Upu> even though for the second I thought it was the plural of Areola
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[21:14] <projectascend-ro> so the issue isnt so much an issue of not having enough gas to get us up, but more landing in a bad place?
[21:14] <Upu> well a Hwoyee 1200g *may* exhibit some floaty behaviour with a sub 5m/s fill
[21:15] <Upu> I.e not burst at all
[21:15] <Upu> I'd say thats unlikely - anyone else want to comment feel free
[21:15] <Upu> I would say you don't have enough gas to get a 5.5m/s ascent rate
[21:15] <eroomde> depends on payload mass i reckon
[21:16] <eroomde> but 1.5kg woudl certainly not be out of the woods
[21:16] <Upu> regardless of where it was landing I'd suggest you need more gas
[21:16] <Upu> with that payload weight
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[21:17] <Upu> its a really hard call to make
[21:17] <Upu> I wouldn't launch it in that configuration
[21:18] <Upu> for the simple reason I don't think its going to do what you're expecting from the predictions
[21:18] <eroomde> steve g0tdj (where is he?) has the hindu god of wind in vayu
[21:18] <Upu> I could be just being a big wuss again though
[21:18] <Upu> I don't like airports
[21:18] <eroomde> zephyr is the west wind, that'd be a good one
[21:19] <projectascend-ro> okay, I also am being to told now that it is 1.35 and that includes parachute and chord etc
[21:19] <Upu> still < 5m/s
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[21:19] <eroomde> you could just launch it and see what happens
[21:19] <eroomde> :)
[21:19] <Upu> indeed
[21:19] <projectascend-ro> to be honest, I think we are gonna have to...tv crews etc have been orgranised etc :/
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[21:20] <eroomde> if you want to get the educational-loss out the way
[21:20] <Upu> never be pressured into it
[21:20] <Upu> if its not safe its not safe
[21:20] <Upu> in that case get every last bit of gas in the balloon
[21:20] <eroomde> yeah, we've specifically said on several occassions that tv crews can *never* be an excuse to loaunch if you're not happy it'd be safe
[21:20] <Upu> and anything that isn't needed leave it on the ground
[21:21] <daveake> Has there been a $$MEDEINA ?
[21:21] <Upu> i.e mustard seeds (Josh)
[21:21] <Upu> hand warmers (everyone clueless)
[21:21] <eroomde> don't think so daveake
[21:21] <Upu> Lego Men (Me)
[21:21] <Upu> Spiders (J Coxon by accident)
[21:21] <eroomde> we should maybe put something on the wiki
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[21:22] <eroomde> if you want your 15 minutes, *never* promise anything to tv crews, make it totally clear that it is wind dependant and only on about 24hrs notice
[21:22] <eroomde> and you don't give a crap if they're the bbc or sky or nhk or whoever, the wind is in charge, not them
[21:23] <Upu> sorry to put a downer on your plans at the end of the day its your decision, I don't mean to be negative just trying to give yuo as much information as possible
[21:23] <projectascend-ro> yeah, I appreciated greatly!
[21:23] <eroomde> you're getting the benefit of all our heard-learned experience doing launches when conditions aren't ideal
[21:23] <eroomde> plenty of lost payloads
[21:24] <Upu> I would preemptively get the phone number for RAF Dishford Tower though
[21:24] <eroomde> which is ok sometimes, if you don't mind not getting it back
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[21:24] <eroomde> but if you really want it back, you really need to wait for a day that's good without caveat
[21:24] <eroomde> rather than borderline
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[21:25] <Upu> if it does burst around 34.5km you're fine
[21:26] <eroomde> maybe wet the balloon :)
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[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[21:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is there more than one flight planned then if you have more than one team ?
[21:26] <Upu> 1000g payload - 6.5m/s burst @ 40km
[21:27] <Lunar_Lander> build cutdown really fast?
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[21:27] <Upu> 750g payload - 6m/s burst @ 36km
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[21:27] <Upu> not much data to go on
[21:27] <Upu> oh
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[21:28] <Upu> cloud 800g payload - 5.8m/s burst @ 38.5km
[21:28] Nick change: polde___ -> polde
[21:28] <projectascend-ro> there is another team launching on thursday. It's part of the same project but we arent working together or anything.
[21:28] <eroomde> booom
[21:28] <Upu> all these were estimated to burst at 34km
[21:28] <eroomde> netsplit
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[21:28] <Upu> eesh
[21:28] <Upu> what you need
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[21:28] <Upu> is an 800g balloon
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[21:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> aH YOU HAVE ALL REJOINED US THEN
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[21:42] Nick change: Miek -> Guest84606
[21:43] <Upu> lol
[21:43] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[21:44] <fsphil> JOIN US
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[21:46] <Upu> G8BUN
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[21:55] <craag> habhub logs will now be on the first page of google for his callsign :)
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[22:04] <Upu> lol
[22:05] Nick change: Matt_soton -> mattbrejza
[22:05] <Upu> Hi G8BUN if you're searching for yourself i just heard your 70cm TX and typed in your callsign but accidentally pressed enter - 73's M0UPU
[22:05] <Upu> p.s come track some balloons
[22:06] <Upu> and thats how you send a message into the future
[22:06] <daveake> p.p.s. It's more fun than what you're doing
[22:06] <Upu> lol
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[22:11] <cuddykid> just saw steve's post about permission not arriving - I haven't heard anything from David after my email yesterday, sometimes he replies, sometimes he doesn't (to confirm my request) - anyone else heard from him?
[22:16] <daveake> not since last week
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[22:23] <projectascend-ro> So I take it David Miller handles all the HAB stuff?
[22:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Steve said he hadn't had permission ? there is a NOTAM out covering the dates ?
[22:26] <daveake> Yup. In theory there are others there who can do it, but in practice if he's out they seem to leave it till he gets back
[22:26] <mattbrejza> 'SCHEDULE: SAT-SUN Daylight hours' Geoff-G8DHE
[22:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah yes
[22:28] <daveake> Yeah he just has weekends on the permanent notam, to cut down on calls
[22:28] <cuddykid> hm, I'll give him a call tomorrow afternoon if it's not showing up on the map by mid-afternoon
[22:29] <cuddykid> I get the impression it takes him a couple of minutes to do them (if all details like usual)
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[00:00] --- Wed Mar 12 2014