highaltitude.log.20140310

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[02:06] <AF5LI> good morning
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[05:20] <DL7AD__> morning
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[05:54] <Reb-SM3ULC> morrn
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[07:08] <DL7AD_> Reb-SM3ULC: morning
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[09:36] <LeoBodnar> morning
[09:37] <fsphil> morning!
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[09:53] <x-f> gmorning
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[09:54] <x-f> looks like Steve is doing a balloon fiesta on Wednesday
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[10:05] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[10:10] <cuddykid> anyone know the cheapest place for lithiums currently?
[10:10] <Darkside> bay
[10:10] <Darkside> ebay*
[10:10] <cuddykid> I may be launching wed/thurs.. conditions look good
[10:10] <eroomde> you can usually buy packs of 72 from online places
[10:10] <eroomde> that's cheapest, in my experience
[10:10] <cuddykid> any particular place eroomde ?
[10:11] <daveake> 7dayshop usually cheaper than ebay provided you order a few
[10:11] <cuddykid> daveake you're not too far away from me now that you're in Ross on Wye
[10:11] <daveake> yeah I messed that up didn't I? :p
[10:11] <cuddykid> cheers, need a good few for extra batt packs for gopros
[10:12] <cuddykid> haha
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[10:13] <eroomde> cuddykid: batteryforce seem to be sold out atm
[10:13] <eroomde> but i did get them from there
[10:14] <eroomde> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-Battery-Pack/dp/B004G6NYB6/ref=pd_sim_ce_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=0YCGX4QP9W3VPMCCT6CR
[10:15] <SpeedEvil> The nice part about packs of 72 is that they don't go off
[10:16] <daveake> http://www.7dayshop.com/energizer-ultimate-lithium-power-aa-lithium-batteries-12-pack?backUrl=L2NhdGFsb2dzZWFyY2gvcmVzdWx0Lz9xPWVuZXJnaXplcitsaXRoaXVtK2Fh&backUrl=L2NhdGFsb2dzZWFyY2gvcmVzdWx0Lz9xPWVuZXJnaXplcitsaXRoaXVtK2Fh
[10:17] <daveake> ^ however postage on top so only cheap if you buy plenty at once
[10:17] <cuddykid> ah yes, cheers
[10:19] <Hix> daveake - seen this - http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/09/raspberry-pi-computer-eben-upton-cambridge?CMP=twt_gu your babbage jump is mentioned
[10:19] <daveake> yeah saw that :)
[10:20] <daveake> I've not seen it yet but there's a huge "Babbage in the stratosphere" poster at Camb railway station
[10:20] <Darkside> nice
[10:20] <Hix> cool :D
[10:20] <daveake> I'm going over there on Monday (for something else not to see the poster!) so I'll catch it then
[10:21] <eroomde> hopefully it's replaced the massive posters aying
[10:21] <eroomde> "Welcome to Cambridge - home of Anglia Ruskin University!"
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[10:21] <daveake> home of wtf?
[10:21] <Darkside> well thre are obviously no other uni's at cambridge
[10:22] <daveake> none worth mentioning obviously :/
[10:23] <Darkside> ok im off
[10:23] <Darkside> back later
[10:23] <Darkside> progress tracking on http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=12&call=a%2FVK5QI-9&timerange=3600&tail=3600
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[10:41] <DL7AD> morning all
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[11:13] <BalloonYOLO> Hopefully launching again on Wednesday!
[11:13] <BalloonYOLO> Doc ID: 7514ddb4f2c3f577c1a85c35858912b1
[11:13] <BalloonYOLO> Please approve
[11:14] <BalloonYOLO> Callsign Habduino
[11:14] <eroomde> any chance of changing the callsign?
[11:15] <eroomde> calling it Habduino is like calling it<insert-name-here>
[11:15] <eroomde> it's not really a unique flight callsign
[11:16] <BalloonYOLO> Yeah, get the library errors in the script when trying to upload and don't know how to fix..
[11:16] <eroomde> some work to be done then
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[11:17] <eroomde> however, the other perhaps more important thing to note is that there are already a lot of flights on wednesday declared
[11:17] <eroomde> so you need to check times and frequencies to ensure you don't clash
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[11:21] <BalloonYOLO> Ed, where can you see other peoples flight docs?
[11:22] <eroomde> they're not published right now, the declarations have so far been on the ukhas mailing list
[11:22] <eroomde> lemme find a link
[11:22] <BalloonYOLO> Cheers
[11:22] <eroomde> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[11:22] <eroomde> see the most recent 2 posts
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[11:24] <eroomde> the thing to do is post to the mailing list yourself with where/when/freq and ask the others if that clashes with them - they didn't announce time or freqiencies, i note
[11:26] <LeoBodnar> just go DSSS and book a PRN
[11:26] <daveake1> Not sure about NORB, but mine I can set to avoid clashes
[11:27] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: that would be The Solution
[11:27] <eroomde> but rtty seems to cause enough upset sometimes
[11:27] <LeoBodnar> and crank up the power while you are there
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[11:40] <mfa298> BalloonYOLO: if you can it's probably worth moving away from 434.650 both to save us having *that* debate yet again but also I think it's the input frequency of a local repeater so if the repeater is in use I probably have no chance of hearing your balloon (Not saying I'd be able to track it on wednesday but...)
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[12:27] <x-f> what's so special about Wednesday?
[12:30] <cm13g09> x-f: lots of flights
[12:31] <x-f> that's why i'm asking - what's so special about Wednesday?
[12:32] <LazyLeopard> Maybe the predictions look best then?
[12:32] <mattbrejza> yea least distance from launch site
[12:32] <mattbrejza> we could land on the isle of wright...
[12:33] <cm13g09> mattbrejza: Isle of Widget :P
[12:33] <mattbrejza> oh no 'r'
[12:34] <cm13g09> lol
[12:34] Nick change: daveake1 -> daveake
[12:35] <daveake> Also little change during the day so more predictable landing spot
[12:35] <mattbrejza> high risk of overshoot though
[12:35] <mattbrejza> shame we dont have any payloads we want to throw away and a 100g balloon
[12:35] <daveake> we don't? :)
[12:36] Action: craag has a box of 4x 100g balloons...
[12:36] <fsphil> I must get a few more 100g's
[12:36] <mattbrejza> depends who 'we' are
[12:36] <mattbrejza> mostly means me
[12:36] <daveake> it does :)
[12:36] <fsphil> they use so little helium
[12:36] <fsphil> and get a half decent height
[12:37] <mattbrejza> and you can put on a small camera if you test it well enough
[12:38] <craag> I took advantage of the nice weather and went to check on the pico camera payload in the tree, it wasn't in the tree, but wasn't anywhere on the ground around it, so looks like someone's walked off with it.
[12:38] <craag> (yesterday)
[12:39] <craag> Just means I'll have to repeat the flight, right? :D
[12:41] <BalloonYOLO> What is a good transmitting frequency range to pick from?
[12:41] <mfa298> craag: maybe they've tried posting it back.
[12:41] <mattbrejza> i think the allocation is about .01 to 0.8 but ill check
[12:41] <craag> mfa298: Erm crap... it would be at my old address!
[12:41] <fsphil> anywhere between 434.100 and 434.600 is fine
[12:42] <BalloonYOLO> Cheers
[12:42] <fsphil> the ISM range is wider than that but close to 433.900 you get a huge amount of interference
[12:42] <mfa298> Ideally I think it might be below 434.500 - but .650 is particularly bad due to the debate it can cause.
[12:42] <mattbrejza> its .04 -> .79
[12:42] <fsphil> and there are amateur radio inputs on 434.650
[12:42] <fsphil> lol mfa298
[12:43] <mattbrejza> alternatively you can fly on .650 and transmit ctss tones inbetween packets
[12:43] <daveake> ftw :)
[12:44] <fsphil> you'd certainly get signal reports
[12:44] <fsphil> actually I bet you wouldn't - nobody would even notice
[12:44] <mfa298> fsphil: I did give two reasons earlier for staying off .650 one being that debate and the other being there is a local repeater using .650 so that makes it harder to track from here due to the interference it causes with balloons.
[12:44] <mattbrejza> i cant say ive ever had issues tracking .650 balloons interference wise from soton
[12:45] <fsphil> the .650 repeater in belfast has never caused me trouble either
[12:45] <mfa298> I did once in soton, but I'm currently to the east during the day and one of the pompy repeaters is on .650 (from memory)
[12:46] <mattbrejza> where is the 650 repeater here?
[12:47] <mfa298> GB3PH (although ukrepeater says its offline at the moment)
[12:49] <mfa298> I can't open it on the handy and I'm not that many miles from it currently so it could be offline.
[12:49] <mattbrejza> oh thats portsmouth
[12:51] <mfa298> when I had issues with it before it was probably someone between soton and pompey using it that caused me issues in soton.
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[13:39] <BalloonYOLO> Trying to change freq and callsign on arduino, change the script, compile it and upload it and it says "done uploading" but also says "avrdude: stk500_getsync(): not in sync: resp=0x00" and in testing the freq doesnt appear to have changed from 434.65
[13:41] <Miek> yeah, the upload didn't work - the error is fairly generic, so double check connections, voltages, etc.
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[13:43] <UpuWork> hi BalloonYOLO
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[13:43] <UpuWork> I would remove the sheild and just try upload the example -> blink program to prove its working
[13:43] <UpuWork> make sure you pick the correct board type and serial port
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[13:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Usually baud rate, port chosen or board type is wrong
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[13:51] <WillDWork> is a funcube dongle worth getting?
[13:52] <WillDWork> I keep debating it
[13:52] <mfa298> I reckoned so although that might depend on what you're going to use it for.
[13:52] <mfa298> As a reciever I think it's comparable to my FT817 and TS-2000.
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[13:55] <fsphil> yea it's as sensitive as my other radios
[13:56] <gonzo_> the p+ is certainly a very useable unit
[13:57] <mfa298> I'm not sure I'd use it for chasing in a car (or at least not as the primary radio) but it's good for use at home or as something I can throw in the bag with a laptop as a just in case.
[13:57] <fsphil> if I could sort out my pulseaudio problems I'd probably use it for chasing
[13:57] <fsphil> but keeping a radio as a backup
[13:57] <mfa298> Now I just need a suitable antenna that can go in the bag as a just in case - looks like that's a job for tonight / tomorrow night.
[13:58] <daveake> I /think/ the original FCD Pro is slightly more sensitive than the 817, if you fiddle with the settings, but when I've run both on the same signal the 817 will get a decode on some that the FCD won't. It's very close though.
[13:58] <daveake> Probably better filtering on the 817
[13:58] <daveake> Well there is, but probably that's why :)
[13:59] <mattbrejza> need a fcd+ that also has a 3.5mm audio output
[14:00] <gonzo_> wonder if the IQ cancelling in SW for an SDR is not as good at rejection as the hw filters in an ssb radio>?
[14:00] <mattbrejza> or attach a stm32f4 to the tuner and have that decode rtty and send it via BT to your phone :P
[14:00] <gonzo_> so you get image noise on the sdr?
[14:00] <UpuWork> FCD is excellent (With a habamp)
[14:00] <UpuWork> My FCD+ I think is faulty
[14:00] <UpuWork> but i've never been able to prove it or get a response from FCD people
[14:00] <fsphil> I'm beginning to think Yaesu are not going to replace the FT817 -- potential market for an SDR version
[14:01] <UpuWork> Yaesu are missing a trick
[14:01] <mattbrejza> its more a case of images generated by the tuner rather than the software
[14:01] <mattbrejza> or rather whether the image is exactly 90o shifted
[14:02] <gonzo_> they would need to keep it roughly the same as far as functionality goes. As that market is cornered
[14:02] <daveake> I get (well, got, 'cos I've moved now) wideband blips which will kill a weak signal
[14:02] <daveake> 817 dealt with those much better
[14:03] <gonzo_> the dynamic raneg of the 817 may be better at that
[14:03] <mattbrejza> shame you cant easily by the tuner used in the fcd++ as then you could make a cheaper cut down hab version
[14:03] <mattbrejza> *buy
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[14:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Wil be interesting to see what price and sensitivity the AirSpy device has when released.
[14:07] <fsphil> the price I saw for it put it not much cheaper than the HackRF -- but this is comparing two devices that are not for sale yet, so basically made up numbers so far
[14:07] <mattbrejza> any idea on the tuner ICs used by those ones?
[14:10] <fsphil> https://github.com/mossmann/hackrf/blob/master/doc/hardware/hackrf-one-schematic.pdf?raw=true
[14:10] <fsphil> don't recognise most of those ICs, maybe someone else can
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[14:14] <mattbrejza> is the hackrf GHz range only?
[14:15] <Miek> 30MHz (~10MHz unofficially) to 6GHz
[14:16] <mattbrejza> oh i think it just has a high (2.5GHz) IF
[14:16] <Miek> yup
[14:16] <mattbrejza> thts not a single IC design, not copying that any time soon :P
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[14:31] <eroomde> we just unpacked the ttus n200
[14:31] <eroomde> ettus*
[14:31] <eroomde> it's really quite nice!
[14:36] <fsphil> did it come in a gold plated anti-static bag?
[14:41] <eroomde> no
[14:41] <eroomde> tho was well opackaged
[14:41] <eroomde> the case is decent
[14:44] <BalloonYOLO> ok, callsign and frequency changed for wednesday launch
[14:45] <BalloonYOLO> Callsign: BalYOLO Freq:434.50
[14:46] <nats`> you are using a magical frequency :)
[14:46] <nats`> be prepared to rule the world
[14:48] <BalloonYOLO> Doc ID 7514ddb4f2c3f577c1a85c35858c6b37 for approval
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[14:52] <UpuWork> lol
[14:52] <UpuWork> BalloonYOLO thanks
[14:52] <UpuWork> could you transmit and upload a few sentences
[14:53] <UpuWork> lets just check its all working before launch
[14:53] <UpuWork> Leo needs a new frequency
[14:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ohh a tracking station in Aberdeen makes a nice change to have one that far up contry!
[14:58] <LeoBodnar> i have been evicted
[14:59] <nats`> It's the game of throne !
[14:59] <nats`> (in game of throne you would be dead also :D)
[14:59] <LeoBodnar> hopefully it will drift awaaaaay
[14:59] <fsphil> "HAB55331
[14:59] <fsphil> " is practically next door to me
[15:00] <fsphil> apart from the sea, large lake and city in between
[15:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Give him a wave
[15:04] <DL7AD> did anyone ever try to use satellites?
[15:04] <DL7AD> except of aprs
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[15:10] <Lunar_LanderU> you mean like the SPOT uses INMARSAT?
[15:11] <craag> Some people have played with the ROCKBLOCK iridium modem
[15:11] <craag> Not with much reliability though from what I've seen.
[15:12] <craag> Although more recently the kraken ocean buoy used it with great success
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[15:19] <LeoBodnar> is it panic launch time coming this week?
[15:19] <fsphil> the week of balloons
[15:19] <eroomde> first week the weather's looked ok again
[15:19] <x-f> spring cleaning of old payloads
[15:22] <DL7AD> craag: yes heared about. but i mean lineartransponder satellites
[15:22] <craag> DL7AD: Ah ok! No I haven't heard of that..
[15:23] <DL7AD> i did a tracker transmission this morning via FO-29
[15:23] <fsphil> doppler would be a pain
[15:23] <craag> ^^ yeah
[15:23] <craag> Could be done though..
[15:23] <fsphil> yea it could be corrected
[15:23] <fsphil> certainly will be predictable
[15:23] <craag> DL7AD: Ah, did it work?
[15:24] <DL7AD> craag: i did not find any signal.
[15:24] <craag> I don't know how much ERP you need for those..
[15:24] <DL7AD> its 100mW
[15:24] <DL7AD> FO-29 does 1000mW
[15:24] <craag> I mean ERP for uplink
[15:24] <DL7AD> pff..... im using 100mW
[15:25] <craag> into what antenna?
[15:25] <DL7AD> omni
[15:25] <craag> You'd probably want a QFH or similar
[15:25] <craag> Well try increasing the power and see if you can find the threshold, it would be interesting to know!
[15:26] <DL7AD> i can do 800mW maximum
[15:29] <malgar> very good news guys.. since 2014 I have to pay 94 euro for each notam request :( :(
[15:29] <malgar> (from italy)
[15:29] <Lunar_LanderU> oh
[15:30] <DL7AD> which notam?
[15:30] <malgar> hab launch from northern italy next May
[15:31] <DL7AD> ah okay....
[15:31] <DL7AD> that type of notam
[15:31] <DL7AD> i though a notam request (to read)
[15:31] <DL7AD> i can say, for general aviation italy is horrific expensive
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[15:34] <eroomde> malgar: drive to switzerland?
[15:34] <malgar> :D austria is closer
[15:35] <malgar> the funny thing is that I called to 3 different airport directions and I had 3 different procedures to follow
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[15:51] <WillDWork> have you guys seen this: https://sa.catapult.org.uk/cubesat-weekend
[15:51] <WillDWork> anyone interested?
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[15:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh, I envisaged them using a great big catapult to fly them ;-)
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[15:58] <staylo> I doubt anyone would try that.. not after the infamous Trebuchet 5 Heavy launch failure
[16:00] <LeoBodnar> some did attempt that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP
[16:00] <LeoBodnar> rather this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Babylon
[16:01] <fsphil> did they make five of them?
[16:02] <fsphil> and the first four mysteriously disappeared/where destroyed?
[16:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> They wouldn't let me climb up inside to take a Pano from the mouth so had to put up withthis shot http://www.360cities.net/image/upper-hall-fort-nelson-portsdown-hill-portsmouth-hampshire-england-uk#-63.31,17.37,110.0
[16:04] <fsphil> aah these are saddams weird super guns
[16:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Indeed!
[16:05] <cm13g09> Geoff-G8DHE: I know where that is....
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[16:05] <cm13g09> more by luck than judgement
[16:06] <Major_Tom_> Hi! Recently I've started a project for an high altitude balloon flight, now I need to buy a radio for the tracking.
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[16:06] <SpeedEvil> Major_Tom_: Where are you?
[16:07] <Major_Tom_> The cheapest solution I've found is the funcube dongle pro+, but, is it really good for tracking?
[16:07] <mfa298> Major_Tom_: there's a decent list on the wiki of things people have used.
[16:07] <Major_Tom_> I'm in Italy, there's almost no one here with this passion
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[16:07] <eroomde> Major_Tom_: meet malgar
[16:07] <eroomde> malgar: meet Major_Tom_
[16:08] <mfa298> Funcube Pro+ is a good receiver as long as you've got a good enough laptop to run the software. Anything that's not a netbook should be fine (although Linux has some audio issues)
[16:08] <Major_Tom_> What doy you mean by "good enough"?
[16:09] <mfa298> if it's a netbook it might struggle with the sdr software (things with the atom cpu), if it's better than a netbook you should be fine.
[16:10] <mfa298> there's a list of real recievers people have used on http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide although they can cost more and the FCD Pro+ (or the cheap scanners might not be as sensitive as the FCD Pro+)
[16:10] <Major_Tom_> I already tried some low-distance tracking with an sdr, so I guess my laptop should be fine right?
[16:11] <mfa298> if it's worked with the rtl-sdr dongles then it will be fine with the FCD Pro+
[16:13] <Major_Tom_> Yes, I'm worried about the distance though, is it really that sensitive? Is there anyone who already tried tracking a real flight with the Funcube Dongle?
[16:13] <malgar> ciao Major_Tom_ look at the private chat
[16:13] <craag> Major_Tom_: Plenty :) It's outperformed an ft897 for me
[16:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Quite a few of us use normal RTL based Dongles with a pre-amp (HABAMP) for tracking
[16:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Heads up in Southampton Larkhill Sonde descending on you ....
[16:16] <mattbrejza> what sw do you need to decode these?
[16:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> SondeMonitor is the only software I'm aware of
[16:17] <mattbrejza> free?
[16:17] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: Projected landing co-ordinates?
[16:17] <mattbrejza> easy to set up?
[16:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> No small price
[16:17] <craag> mattbrejza: no :(
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[16:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> very easy to setup
[16:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> but it needs a good overhaul as its been added to over time and it shows ...
[16:18] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: Where roughly in southampton?
[16:18] <mattbrejza> 'Pentium level PC running Win95/98/Me/2k/XP' lol
[16:19] <Reb-SM3ULC> DOS6.22?
[16:19] <mattbrejza> free trial
[16:19] <mattbrejza> thatll do
[16:19] <g0pai_ian_> 21 days free trial I believe.
[16:20] <mfa298> Major_Tom_: as others have said I've found the FCD Pro+ to work as well as other receivers. Like all receivers you need a decent antenna to go with it.
[16:20] <mattbrejza> freq?
[16:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> Eastleigh http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/Sondes/index.php?ind=4
[16:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> just passed under 1Km and dropped out with me
[16:21] <mattbrejza> bit too far
[16:21] <mattbrejza> maybe tomorrows will be nearer :P
[16:21] <Major_Tom_> mfa298: of course, is this one ok? -> http://www.diamondantenna.net/a430s10.html
[16:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> yer more like Romsey when you look on GE
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[16:23] <mfa298> Major_Tom_: that should work well but you'll need a rotator for it to keep it pointing in the right direction.
[16:24] <mfa298> as long as you can mount it reasonably high (so it's got a good view towards the horizon in all directions) a standard white stick omni directional 2/70 antenna will do a good job.
[16:24] <mfa298> And use decent coax between the antenna and reciever.
[16:24] <craag> Wow thursday looks spectacular for a launch
[16:24] <daveake> yup :)
[16:24] <craag> I wonder if GDP are in a position to take advantage
[16:24] <Major_Tom_> Thank you for the advice :)
[16:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sry mattbrejza Larkhill is on 404.4, Camborne on 404.2 and Herstmonceux on 404.8
[16:27] <mattbrejza> thnaks
[16:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Camborne and Herstmonceux normally launch 2300 and 1100, Larkhill similar but also fill in 1500 and other odd times
[16:28] <mattbrejza> i wonder how many get close enough to here for a walk and collect
[16:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Use the SGP decoder and bring down the alamnack to track them
[16:28] <craag> Frday 1100 looks good from larkhill
[16:29] <mattbrejza> is there an hourly for larkhill?
[16:29] <craag> I was extrapolating from my hourly
[16:29] <craag> Doesn't look like it
[16:30] <mattbrejza> whats a usual ascent/descent/burst?
[16:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> They try to launch for a burst at 1200/0000 Herstmonceux always appears at 1118 or 2318 for me
[16:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> 20-28Kms
[16:31] <mattbrejza> do you regularly track Geoff-G8DHE ?
[16:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup it s pretty automated now not totally but I do have a lot of them ;-)
[16:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> 399 flights to be precise!
[16:33] <mattbrejza> well if you see one coming close again let us know :D
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[16:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> I tend to see the paths after the event! Its only because that one was a 1500 that I saw it progressing not very far down the coast!
[16:34] <mattbrejza> oh right
[16:34] <craag> What's the battery life on them once they're on the ground?
[16:35] <mattbrejza> mind you the chance of them landing within a few miles isnt exactly high
[16:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> This is the data off that one http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/Sondes/index.php?ind=4
[16:35] <gonzo_> one of the locals had a sonde land in the garden, just missed his missus
[16:36] <gonzo_> it was open on the bench being reverse engineered within minutes
[16:36] <craag> heh
[16:36] <gonzo_> I had the chute and the line spooler which I re-flew
[16:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> That one stayed very low burst at below 16Kms
[16:37] <gonzo_> the spooler is a clever idea, saves having the payload dragged across the ground. Supprised we don't use them
[16:41] <g0pai_ian_> So does the spooler pay out or take up line and is it spring driven? No pic?
[16:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Could make something out of a retractable RJ45 lead perhaps
[16:42] <malgar> very well... it seems that 94 euro is just for NOTAM request. If approved the total sum is 376 euro
[16:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Spooler design page 18 http://www.bbl-elektronik.de/meto/pdf/sysds99.pdf
[16:46] <DL7AD> ANNOUNCE: im going to let my tracker tansmit on 145.950 MHz to try an contact via JAS-2 (FO-29). pass at 17:10 UTC. doppler shift by tracker = 0 at 17:20:51 UTC. RX (down) must be set to LSB because tracker is transmitting USB. uplink 145.950 => downlink 435.850 . transmitter does not care doppler effect. mode: rtty-100 7N2. Call: D-3. payload registered at habhub.
[16:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right gets busy
[16:47] <DL7AD> payload does transmit continuous with 2seconds breaks
[16:47] <mattbrejza> why does every page say 'page x of x' :/
[16:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh o yes handy!
[16:48] <mfa298> somebody failed at the footer macro
[16:49] <gonzo_> the spooler I have, has a fixed vertical bobin with a wide lower rim. it's attached to the balloon neck. The line just unwinds off as the balloon bobs about on ascent
[16:49] <craag> DL7AD: I'll listen out on the websdr
[16:49] <mattbrejza> i wonder if using that would reduce swinging
[16:49] <gonzo_> so you start with the sonde close to the balloon and it pays (?) the line out when it's clear of the ground
[16:50] <craag> DL7AD: Ah, well out of websdr freq range :( oh well let me know if you get anything!
[16:50] <DL7AD> craag: okay
[16:51] <gonzo_> it's probably no different when it's all unwound, than our long train. But it's compact to launch. No running to keep the payload off the ground at release
[16:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> early switched the tracking aerial to 2m!
[16:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nearly
[16:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> 19:20 seconds to AoS
[16:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> DL7AD what shift on the rtty ?
[16:54] <DL7AD> shift: 425
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[16:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> Rgr
[16:55] <g0pai_ian_> Interesting document, thanks. Also the 40m distance between balloon and temp sensor to avoid vortex effects from balloon . . . something new . . . every hour!
[16:56] <mfa298> that pdf does look to be a good read - probably lots of things to learn from it - I'd just seem the 40m bit.
[16:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Waterfall here http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/D-3_20140310_test_via_FO29_sat/
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[17:06] <DL7AD> transmitter is switched on an working
[17:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Interfernce starts ....
[17:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> 2 minutes to pass start
[17:10] <DL7AD> to the south there is a building at my location anyway.
[17:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> 1 minute
[17:11] <DL1SGP> good luck sven :)
[17:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> SSB signals heard
[17:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> AoS
[17:11] <DL7AD> DL1SGP: thx
[17:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Interference moves off
[17:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> cw
[17:12] <DL1SGP> and just in this moment I am called for dinner duh!
[17:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> no rtty yet
[17:14] <DL7AD> downlink is 435.800-435.900
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[17:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> cw and ssb audio
[17:17] <DL7AD> scanning ssb
[17:17] <DL7AD> im hearing rtty even if there is no ^^
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[17:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> DL7U?F calling CQ USB
[17:20] <DL7AD> no
[17:20] <Geoff-G8DHE> DL7UHF
[17:21] <DL7AD> i kmow him
[17:23] <DL7AD> rtty?
[17:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not yet ON4CBA
[17:23] <Geoff-G8DHE> some keying up
[17:24] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: next time i will try Funcube. ive a yagi 10dbi and with my crossband transceiver i relay it to 70cm
[17:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK how much power are you running ?
[17:25] <DL7AD> currently 100mW
[17:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Umm yup might be a bit optimistic then ;-)
[17:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> still 4 minutes to go for me but its back down to 15 degrees
[17:26] <DL7AD> i just wanted to hear anything
[17:26] <DL7AD> but theres no chances to all 100W stations
[17:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> several signals there but nothing looking like rtty
[17:27] <DL7AD> hm.... next time there will be 50W and yagi
[17:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> but no balloon with the 50W ;-)
[17:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> XYL called to tell me to put the tea on!
[17:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> AFK
[17:31] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: i'll need you in receiving again at 20:50 UTC because i cant receive while crossbanding (2m tracker via ft-847 to 70cm uplink)
[17:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> back!
[17:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes that a good pass as well 60+ degrees
[17:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> No mistake thats worse its only 14.5 degrees 16 minutes but lets give it a go
[17:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> 18:55 is the nice one for 20+ minutes
[17:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> afk vegetabales need putting on
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[17:48] <gonzo_> it's probably no different when it's all unwound, than our long train. But it's compact to launch. No running to keep the payload off the ground at release
[17:48] <gonzo_> oops
[17:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> yup looks a good idea
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[18:57] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Listening FO-29
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[19:37] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander
[19:43] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: i will wait for funcube's pass 20:50 utc
[19:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup still set up and listining
[19:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> the previous pass would have been good I think
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[20:13] <KF5WYX> Evening all
[20:13] <fsphil> evening
[20:13] <Upu> someone has his timezones correct
[20:13] <Upu> evening
[20:13] <fsphil> lol
[20:14] <KF5WYX> um, it is evening there right?
[20:14] <KF5WYX> :-P
[20:14] <Upu> you're correct
[20:14] <Upu> it is :)
[20:15] <fsphil> it's DST in the US atm, they're an hour closer to us than usual
[20:15] <KF5WYX> We sprung the clocks yesterday, and then I stayed at my in-laws house with none of the clocks changed. Waking up this morning was disorienting.
[20:15] <fsphil> we've that to look forward to at the end of the month
[20:16] <KF5WYX> Marginally exciting news. I just installed a Kenwood TM-D700A and AvMap Geosat 6 in the car. A pricey solution I know (believe me I know), but none the less it's very cool.
[20:17] <KF5WYX> I have a payload constructed, still making use of the trusty old lassen and the HX-1, an an arduino shield. I just started investigating the trackuino code for some idea of how to program it.
[20:22] <aadamson> KF5WYX, you may want to take my updated tracduino code, it builds under the latest arduino environment just fine
[20:22] <aadamson> https://github.com/akadamson/APRS-Mini-Tracker/tree/experimental
[20:22] <aadamson> use the experimental branch as linked above
[20:23] <Maxell> http://hackaday.com/2014/03/10/black-orb-just-wants-someone-to-talk-with/
[20:23] <Maxell> Not high altitude, but does involve balloons, helium, and electronics
[20:23] <KF5WYX> great, thanks aadamson. My device is not a trackuino, so it'll need modification - but it'll be great to have code that compiles in the latest IDE.
[20:23] <aadamson> KF5WYX, it's what I have used to run on this older platform of mine... similar components as you referenced. - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1488481
[20:24] <KF5WYX> nice :)
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[20:26] <aadamson> I recently ported the very latest (not really that new) tracduino code and that's whats in that github... note, I removed most of the sensor stuff as I didn't need it, but if you google tracduino, you'll find the latest (2012 old I think) and you can add those back in if needed
[20:27] <aadamson> and fix the include stuff
[20:27] <aadamson> I added back in the relay path stuff as well as a define
[20:27] <aadamson> for some reason it was removed
[20:27] <aadamson> my code was setup to run on a mediatek mt-3329 gps fyi
[20:28] <KF5WYX> I don't have sensors - I'm still flying telemetry only, I have plans to move on from it but my flights have been so few and far between that it's taken a long time. I do need to add some code to enable the GPS and Radio. I added enable pins for each as a power saving option.
[20:28] <KF5WYX> The mentions of modem in the code is a software modem right?
[20:29] <fsphil> you wouldn't want an hx1 enabled all the time anyway
[20:30] <aadamson> yes
[20:30] <KF5WYX> Yeah, it makes sense to power it up for transmission and then down again. The lassen makes less sense, it's backup feed is tied to the mains line anyway (I didn't bother with the button battery) but even a warm start takes a little too long with those old things.
[20:30] <fsphil> yea the lassen isn't for people in a hurry :)
[20:31] <KF5WYX> I'm really only still using it because I bought a couple too many on my very first hab - no point buying more until I lose them all in the channel.
[20:31] <fsphil> exactly
[20:31] <fsphil> I've got a few old FSA03's to get rid of at some point
[20:31] <KF5WYX> I am however, just slightly curious, if they are legal out here. I think they report perhaps too frequently for us regs?
[20:32] <aadamson> report too frequently for regs?
[20:33] <aadamson> are you talking aprs posit frequency?
[20:33] <aadamson> there is no law about how much or how frequently you can talk...
[20:33] <aadamson> or the transmitter can transmit
[20:33] <aadamson> as long as it id's every 10 mins
[20:33] <fsphil> which is does in every packet anyway
[20:33] <aadamson> yeah
[20:34] <KF5WYX> no, I'm talking about GPS devices reporting NMEA strings. A GPS device that takes a position too frequently might be used to guide a sile.
[20:34] <aadamson> don't think there are any laws there either
[20:34] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: are you for the pass in 20min?
[20:34] <aadamson> most of the good ones are 10hz
[20:34] <aadamson> I don't know what the lassen is,
[20:34] <aadamson> usually the older ones are 1hz
[20:35] <fsphil> the only rules on gps is that it can't work above a certain altitude while doing faster than a certain speed
[20:35] <KF5WYX> erm - ok, I mean - the lassen gives you a possition report about once per second.
[20:35] <fsphil> both of which I can't remember atm
[20:35] <adamgreig> and those rules are only for technology made by a US company for export
[20:35] <adamgreig> 500 knots above 30kft iirc
[20:35] <aadamson> yea it's one of the older, the ublox, mediateks, etc are all programmable, but do 10hz
[20:35] <KF5WYX> so it's safe to say the lassen is ok then :)
[20:35] <aadamson> no problem
[20:35] <adamgreig> well if it weren't OK it wouldn't be for sale
[20:35] <fsphil> frequency of updates has no restriction
[20:36] <KF5WYX> what's a good frequency for sending position reports over APRS?
[20:36] <fsphil> it's a silly thing anyway with the advent of software radios
[20:36] <aadamson> in the us?
[20:36] <aadamson> 144.390
[20:36] <aadamson> hence the hx1
[20:36] <KF5WYX> I mean, how often can I send them
[20:36] <KF5WYX> lol
[20:36] <aadamson> ah
[20:36] <KF5WYX> sorry, I should disambiguate more.
[20:36] <aadamson> up to you.
[20:37] <aadamson> I probably wouldn't do 15 seconds, probably more on a 1 - 2 min basisc
[20:37] <fsphil> 1 per minute seems the standard for aprs
[20:37] <aadamson> and you need to make sure you setup the relay correctly or *all the digi's* that are hearing you will relay :)
[20:37] <fsphil> yea you don't want to cause a relay storm :)
[20:37] <fsphil> the locals will not be pleased
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[20:38] <aadamson> http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths/
[20:38] <aadamson> probably where I'd start to understand that part
[20:38] <aadamson> us related anyway
[20:38] <KF5WYX> I'll make sure and read that before ever turning on the tx.
[20:39] <KF5WYX> I've had my license around 6 months or so now, but only put a radio in the car this weekend. Data on 144.39 and voice listening in to certain law enforcement channels - it's been interesting.
[20:39] <daveake> Someone should do dual-mode payload using APRS with the wrong WIDE setting, plus RTTY on 434.650
[20:40] <fsphil> lol
[20:40] <daveake> See which one causes the biggest argument
[20:40] <fsphil> my swift board has APRS and a 434.650 NTX2
[20:40] Action: fsphil gets to work
[20:40] <aadamson> yeah really...
[20:40] <daveake> excellent
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[20:40] <adamgreig> UK APRS on 2m
[20:40] <adamgreig> see how much fuss you can generate
[20:40] <aadamson> you guys are what 144.800?
[20:40] <fsphil> I could do APRS on 869mhz and it would still annoy someone
[20:41] <adamgreig> no pleasing some hams
[20:42] <fsphil> aadamson: yea. though not allowed (at the moment) from the air
[20:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> DL7AD, Two minutes for me
[20:43] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: np
[20:44] <KF5WYX> Hmm, reading this, thus far, I shouldn't have enabled digipeat on my mobile radio.
[20:44] <aadamson> oh really... I didn't know that... so when a Hab is up what do you use for aprs?
[20:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> AoS but nothing seen yet
[20:44] <fsphil> aadamson: we don't use APRS at all. it's RTTY on 434mhz mostly
[20:44] <fsphil> some flights use other digi modes like domex or thor
[20:45] <aadamson> hmm... that just a UK thing?
[20:45] <fsphil> which neatly allows us to have much more frequent updates as they can transmit continously
[20:45] <aadamson> for some reason I thought LeoBodnar used aprs
[20:45] <fsphil> he only enables it when a payload leaves UK airspace
[20:45] <aadamson> fsphil, at much greater power usage :)
[20:45] <aadamson> ah, got it
[20:46] <aadamson> thats bizarre, how come not in the air in the UK?
[20:46] <aadamson> very strange rule
[20:46] <fsphil> silly license restriction, been there for ages
[20:46] <daveake> because CAA I believe
[20:46] <daveake> but yes very silly
[20:46] <daveake> however it has meant we've got a very good low power system
[20:46] <fsphil> yes
[20:46] <aadamson> wow, sounds like a little attention and that would could be removed
[20:47] <aadamson> yeah, your ssb stuff works really well
[20:47] <fsphil> and developed some neat extensions to the system
[20:47] <aadamson> for sure
[20:47] <daveake> it would be nice to use more powwwerrr for higher data rates - e.g. more/larger images, or video
[20:47] <aadamson> between FCD's and RT dongles, it's pretty easy to deal with the RX side, which is what you really want anyway
[20:47] <fsphil> after working with this APRS actually seems quite boring and so very badly designed :)
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[20:48] <aadamson> yeah we won't go there... pet peave of mine too
[20:48] <aadamson> when using the Si part, are you all using the lower powered ones (4063, etc instead of the 4463's)
[20:48] <aadamson> or the TX only versions
[20:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> DL7AD, reaching peak Elevation
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> consensus is for balloons aprs path WIDE2-1 is good
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[20:55] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: can you hear something?
[20:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nothong some very weak SSB audio and CW but no rtty anywhere in the pass band of the sat
[20:56] <DL7AD> next time we should talk together via ssb :P
[20:57] <DL7AD> the tracker had a problem with the HF being radiated :/
[20:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/D-3_20140310_test_via_FO29_sat/Capture4.JPG
[20:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'd have to dig out a suitable rig to do that!
[20:59] <DL7AD> hm.... do you have a sdr?
[21:00] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: i know the answere. "nope.... but gesichtsbuch" :D
[21:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes thats what I use at present the only SSB rigs I have are rather ancient FT-480R and FT-780 which haven't been used for ages!
[21:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Been using RTL dongles since getting interested in HAB and runnig them under SDR-Radio
[21:02] <KF5WYX> ok - if I understand this correctly (and it doesn't seem too complicated) I should chose to use 'WIDE2-1' or perhaps 'WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1'
[21:04] <DL7AD> using WIDE1-1 on a balloon is okay, because if it lands near to an WIDE1-1 it cant repeated by it. or if its position is far on the water on just an WIDE1-1 can receive it....
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[21:05] <KF5WYX> DL7AD if a WIDE1-1 hears the balloon it'll be repeated to a WIDE and then re-transmitted only once?
[21:05] <KF5WYX> and what happens if the WIDE hears it directly?
[21:05] <DL7AD> no just transmitted once by the wide1-1 repeater
[21:06] <DL7AD> except the other repeater receives the original packet as well
[21:07] <KF5WYX> Then given that the balloon could travel fast - and the chase car can't travel as-the-crow, wouldn't it be best to aim for a WIDE to retransmit?
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[21:08] <DL7AD> you mean WIDEn-N? WIDE2-1 or WIDE2-2 for example
[21:08] <DL7AD> or WIDE1-1 relay stations?
[21:08] <KF5WYX> yes, I'm thinking WIDE2-1 / WIDE2-2 for increased packet range.
[21:09] <KF5WYX> WIDE1-1 = home station if I'm right.
[21:09] <KF5WYX> what was RELAY
[21:09] <DL7AD> RELAY and TRACE is deprecated
[21:09] <KF5WYX> *nod, I know - but (and I just read this, so I'm open to be wrong) WIDE1-1 took the place of RELAY.
[21:10] <DL7AD> yes i think.(i wasnt a ham when RELAY a.s.o. was used.)
[21:13] <KF5WYX> My line of thought was - use WIDE1-1 to take advantage of home stations to capture the packet, and WIDE2-1 to have a wide area station repeat it just one hop. The first hop might be irrelevant if the packet is captured by a wide station directly, but it could be essential to pick up the signal when the payload hits dirt. The second hop in the path should
[21:13] <KF5WYX> forward the message using a wide area transmitter so that I can pick it up many miles behind in the car. 'WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1'.
[21:13] <DL7AD> KF5WYX: yep. you could do this: when reaching 20000ft++ switching to WIDE2-1, when falling below 20000ft switch over to WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 back again.
[21:13] <SIbot1> In real units: 20000 ft = 6 km
[21:14] <KF5WYX> DL7AD: good call, I hadn't considered altitude based path switching.
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[21:15] <DL7AD> KF5WYX: how far away is houston from you
[21:16] <KF5WYX> Dallas - so erm 6/7 hours ish?
[21:16] <KF5WYX> google sais more like 4 hours, 239 miles
[21:17] <KF5WYX> but google doesn't know that only 1 lane is usable and there's a broken Audi in it that tried to undertake.
[21:17] <DL7AD> KF5WYX: eh.... okay.... pretty far for european standards ^^ i made my american call in houston when i stayed for a longer time last its. im AF5LI as well
[21:19] <KF5WYX> I still live by european standards <grin>
[21:21] <KF5WYX> Ok time-out. I have a round-trip drive across town. Should get back on here a little later. Thanks for the chat / info all.
[21:23] <DL7AD> KF5WYX: bye bye :)
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[21:41] <LeoBodnar> you don't need WIDE1-1 for home igates to receive your packet
[21:42] <LeoBodnar> if they hear you direct they will forward it to the internet
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> WIDE1-1 is really for local dead spots
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[23:33] <amell> Is Steve on here?
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[00:00] --- Tue Mar 11 2014