highaltitude.log.20140308

[00:00] <Willdude> Why shouldn't it? It's supposed to provide the ascii value for a given letter of the alphabet - an inverse of getalphapos
[00:02] <mfa298> is 0-25 going tomatch isupper or islower?
[00:04] <Willdude> Ah, true
[00:04] <Willdude> So the case info is lost basically
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[00:08] <Willdude> idk - this is very frustrating - might call it a night
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[00:29] <g0pai_ian_> It might look that way in a month's time though . . . Gnite.
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[07:44] <jcoxon> morning all
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[07:59] <eroomde> morning jcoxon
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[08:41] <jcoxon> hey eroomde
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[09:00] <Jdore> Hey all, just thought id share my collaborative project for work (Zoo magazine) helped greatly by David Akerman! It's been about a year since the launch, but the politics involved in this media launch put it off for ages! Anyway I am relighted with the outcome! Enjoy http://youtu.be/o_U57ow-NHs
[09:00] <Upu> morning Jdore
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[09:00] <Upu> He tweeted it yesterday good video
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[09:08] <jdore> Hey please watch my launch that I made with Dave Akerman :) hope you all enjoy it. It was amazing how much there was to learn I count my lucky stars he was there to help me :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_U57ow-NHs
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[09:27] <ibanezmatt13> Does anybody know what the situation is with GoPro overheating when it's in its case in a HAB and when it is not?
[09:27] <ibanezmatt13> Just routing it into the box now but not sure if the protective caseis a bad thing or not
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[09:33] <gonzo_> I don't know about overheating, but lots of people have reported condensation probloms
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[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
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[09:56] <fsphil> g'morn
[09:57] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Careful with packing it too deeply into the foam, they overheat rather easily just from that.
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[09:59] <ibanezmatt13> thanks craag, just working on it now
[10:00] <DL1SGP> good morn fsphil and all :-)
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[11:03] <jcoxon> quiet day today it seems
[11:05] <DL1SGP> seems like it jcoxon which it was as quiet outside ... chainsaws ...
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[11:13] <obcuz> Anyone know what it is I am hearing (in UK) on 434.400
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[11:14] <jcoxon> obcuz, are they chirps like packets?
[11:15] <obcuz> It's a data mode undetermined
[11:15] <jcoxon> so its an ISM band so there are lots of short range monitors
[11:15] <jcoxon> such as energy monitors
[11:15] <jcoxon> and weather stations
[11:16] <obcuz> any idea what mode? -I thought it was a baloon
[11:17] <jcoxon> not aware of any balloons flying today
[11:18] <jcoxon> obcuz, screenshot of the waterfall perhaps
[11:18] <jcoxon> might be able to suggest what mode it is
[11:18] <obcuz> OK not sure how I can include an image
[11:19] <jcoxon> upload it to somewhere like imgur
[11:19] <jcoxon> then post the link
[11:20] <obcuz> OK, but has faded/weak at the moment
[11:22] <bertrik> weather balloons are usually at 400-410 MHz as far as I know (at least for the netherlands, belgium, germany)
[11:25] <jcoxon> yeah i think its the same in the UK
[11:25] <jcoxon> obcuz, its a busy spectrum between 434.0 and 434.7
[11:30] <obcuz> Mot sure if this will work but here: http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w562/obcuz/Untitled_zps1f03d4fc.jpg
[11:31] <obcuz> Very weak now, was very strong about 30 min ago
[11:32] <jcoxon> is it continous?
[11:33] <obcuz> Yes, like a helicopter sound
[11:33] <jcoxon> its not a balloon
[11:33] <obcuz> Does sound like image data
[11:33] <jcoxon> it almost looks like PSK
[11:34] <jcoxon> http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.21/Modes/
[11:35] <obcuz> Before there was two strong 100HZ data channels like shown about 500HZ apart plus lots of sidebands
[11:35] <obcuz> I still hear it with lots of QSB so it is not local
[11:35] <obcuz> or it's moving
[11:36] <mikestir> where in uk?
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[11:37] <obcuz> IO82 Central
[11:40] <obcuz> What modes do WX balloons use?
[11:41] <mikestir> nothing heard here apart from the usual ism beeps and buzzes
[11:41] <bertrik> The ones I know use FSK
[11:41] <jcoxon> obcuz, FSK, usually RTTY or DominoEX
[11:44] <bertrik> at the hackerspace, someone brought an old type weather balloon payload. Quite nice, it uses a rotating cylinder and a kind of pick-up needle scanning the cylinder with is patterned with conducting and non-conducting material to make a "code"
[11:44] <jcoxon> bertrik, very cool
[11:45] <bertrik> I should have taken a few pictures
[11:45] <obcuz> Just recorded some audio, will see if i can upload the file
[11:46] <fsphil> it could be a monitoring system on a car
[11:47] <fsphil> or lorry
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[12:06] <jcoxon> hmmm
[12:06] <jcoxon> http://www.southgatearc.org/news/2014/march/virtual_ride_to_space.htm#.UxsHyud_vFE
[12:07] <jcoxon> thats a lot of cameras to lose via a SPoT
[12:08] <fsphil> ah man
[12:08] <mikestir> 20km. pah
[12:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> Also far more than is necessary to get a spherical video !
[12:08] <jcoxon> i hope on their planned dummy flights they learn that SPoT isn't great on its own
[12:08] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[12:09] <LeoBodnar> nice cutout diagram before actual flight usually means all the efforts were spent there
[12:09] <DL1SGP> they might spot a flaw in the tracking
[12:10] <Willdude> TIL after doing make <filename> and ./filename once, you can just go !m and !.
[12:11] <LeoBodnar> you can just do up arrow
[12:12] <LeoBodnar> and do "make <filename> ; ./filename"
[12:13] <mfa298> or possibly better "make <filename> && ./filename"
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[12:22] <Willdude> Eugh, I've really messed this code up now
[12:22] <Willdude> I just feel like going Control-A, delete
[12:22] <mikestir> lol
[12:22] <mikestir> maybe you should learn about git
[12:23] <Willdude> Well, It's no more messed up than it was before
[12:23] <Willdude> It's just horrible and doesn't work
[12:28] <Willdude> First thing I realised is it isn't iterating over the key properlu
[12:28] <Willdude> It's going like baconaconacon
[12:28] <mikestir> that's easy
[12:28] <mikestir> that's because the j++ in the for loop executes _after_ each iteration of the loop
[12:29] <mikestir> so when you reset to zero it immediately increments it again
[12:29] <mikestir> that's why mfa298 suggested you take all the stuff to do with the j counter out of the for loop
[12:30] <mfa298> i dont think I've ever had a for loop acting on two variables, it just gets too confusing.
[12:32] <Willdude> If I set j to -1 it works okay
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[12:32] <mikestir> it will, but it's not very readble
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[12:33] <Willdude> It can't deal with spaces - could use isalpha
[12:34] <mikestir> why not just use the encipher function from the caesar one?
[12:34] <mikestir> just modify it to take the key character as an argument
[12:34] <mikestir> or in fact that might have been how it was anyway
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[12:52] <Willdude> Almost ther4e
[12:52] <Willdude> Not passing all the checks tho
[12:53] <Willdude> Need to make it such that the cipher doesn't advance unless the char is ciphered
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[13:03] <mikestir> that should be easy enough - just test if the input and output chars differ
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[13:13] Nick change: danielsaul -> danielsaul_alt
[13:13] Nick change: danielsaul_alt -> danielsaul
[13:14] <gurgalof> aww I missed MJH-1 yesterday...
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[13:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> afternoon all :-)
[13:37] <DL1SGP> greetings Tom
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[13:49] <LeoBodnar> afternoon Tom
[13:50] <LeoBodnar> does anybody have used SA or VNA/SNA for sale?
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[13:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> what are these Leo?
[13:53] <Darkside> SP9UOB-Tom: if you don't know, then you probably dont have one
[13:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> Darkside: i see :-)
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[13:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> VNA means Vector network analyser for me :-)
[13:54] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: if you want a cheap VNA, have a look at the miniVNA series
[13:54] <Darkside> the miniVNA pro is pretty good
[13:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> well.. there is good polish product named MAX-6
[13:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://www.max6.pl/
[13:56] <LeoBodnar> i want something above 1GHz
[13:56] <LeoBodnar> 2,4GHz would be a bonus
[13:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[13:57] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: ahh
[13:57] <Darkside> going that high is a bit of an ask in most of these
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> http://www.max6.pl/ is a blank page. Is it that small?
[13:57] <Darkside> i think the miniVNA pro does up to 23cm
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[13:57] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its a very slow site it gets there in the end
[13:57] <Darkside> ah it does up to 1.5GHz
[13:58] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: I've also seen a few people recommend http://sdr-kits.net/VNWA3_Description.html as a cheap vna
[14:00] <LeoBodnar> interesting, thanks
[14:00] <LeoBodnar> i'd prefer something with knobs
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[14:01] <Darkside> hh
[14:01] <Darkside> i think the VNAs we have in our lab only have one knob
[14:01] <Darkside> the rest is buttons
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[14:02] <LeoBodnar> yeah Anritsu will do
[14:03] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You can always fit some of these http://tinyurl.com/o9yx7jw with glue on the front panel
[14:03] <Darkside> mm we have a big anristu VNA for the anechoic chamber
[14:03] <Darkside> goes up to 250GHz or something silly
[14:04] <LeoBodnar> oh
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[14:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: it opens here
[14:14] Nick change: KingJ_ -> KingJ
[14:14] <LeoBodnar> just opened here too, thanks!
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[15:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> Pico up ! Going to Austria
[15:03] <DL1SGP> tell it to come here :)
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[15:03] <DL1SGP> good luck for the flight Tom, does it have HF on board?
[15:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL1SGP: no, VHF only
[15:05] <DL1SGP> ok, thanks :)
[15:08] <Babs_> ping leobodnar
[15:08] <LeoBodnar> yo
[15:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> ello
[15:09] <fsphil> yoo
[15:09] <DL1SGP> yellow
[15:09] <Babs_> hey leobodnar
[15:10] <Babs_> so i am polling the ublox with NAVPVT message
[15:10] <Babs_> like i think you do?
[15:10] <Babs_> anyhow, when i read from serial i don't get anything past 63 bytes
[15:10] <Reb-SM3ULC> what happened to
[15:11] <Babs_> which means i think i am pushing the buffer, as the navpvt message should i think be closer to 90 bytes
[15:11] <Reb-SM3ULC> what happened to SP3OSj? just climbed and died?
[15:11] <Babs_> how did you get around that? did you use a ring buffer?
[15:11] <Babs_> it looks as if the buffer is filling up quicker than i can empty it
[15:12] <LeoBodnar> i can't help you with arduino stuff, but i think it is a common problem
[15:12] <LeoBodnar> i use I2C to poll UBLOX
[15:12] <LeoBodnar> but i remember serial buffer / ublox combination discussed here quiet e few times
[15:13] <Babs_> i'll have a look through the archives, see what i can find
[15:13] <LeoBodnar> definitely seen this discussed before
[15:13] <Babs_> all of the useful stuff appears to be prior to byte 64 anyway
[15:13] <LeoBodnar> daveake and Upu and jcoxon
[15:14] <Babs_> but it doesn't seem a good thing to half solve the problem
[15:14] <Babs_> plus i can't do the check digit
[15:14] <LeoBodnar> but it would be good to get the whole lot and validate the checksum
[15:14] <Babs_> i think the habduino poll polls a message that is shorter than the 64 buffer limit
[15:15] <Babs_> just checked, it does
[15:15] <LeoBodnar> can you tweak the library?
[15:16] <fsphil> you'll have to increase the buffer
[15:16] <Babs_> perhaps i poll NAV-POSLLH instead, its only 28 bytes and will fit nicely
[15:16] <fsphil> yes or use a smaller message
[15:17] <Babs_> http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/arduino-serial-buffer-size might do it. seems punchy to do this at my level.
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[15:19] <LeoBodnar> i think fix info is not there
[15:19] <LeoBodnar> you can alway poll a few messages
[15:19] <Babs_> yes, fix info is not in NAV-POSLLH
[15:20] <Babs_> but you are right, poll a location message, then poll a lock message etc. etc.
[15:20] <Babs_> probably the best way
[15:20] <fsphil> it's sadly quite slow
[15:21] <fsphil> there doesn't seem to be a way in ubx to query more than one bit of information from a single position fix
[15:21] <fsphil> each poll it waits for the next fix
[15:22] <LeoBodnar> correct
[15:22] <Laurenceb> but you can turn the fix rate up to 5hz
[15:22] <LeoBodnar> so if you really want it fast set it to 10Hz update rate
[15:22] <Laurenceb> or that
[15:22] <LeoBodnar> this will increase power consumption slightly
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[15:50] <Babs_> leobodnar, fsphil, are you still both on?
[15:51] <Babs_> just implemented this in case anyone asks in the future http://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/arduino-serial-buffer-size works well
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[15:59] <LeoBodnar> yep
[15:59] <torq> Anyone about?
[15:59] <torq> Ooh
[16:00] <torq> Got myself a Realtek USB stick and SDR software. Still trying to work out how to use it :)
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[16:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> OM1ATS: hello :-)
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[16:06] <torq> Managed to find various carrier tones with gqrx but not having a lot of luck finding someone speaking.
[16:06] <torq> Missing a trick somewhere
[16:08] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Might be best to look on the 88-108 MHz FM band for starters.
[16:09] <torq> Yup. I see peaks there just not getting anything other than carrier tones
[16:09] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You have loaded the ZDIAG drivers
[16:09] <torq> I'm on a mac
[16:10] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Ah not sure what's available for them
[16:10] <torq> Searching high and low for a basic how to
[16:11] <torq> On a mission to eventually receive balloons
[16:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Have you read the Wiki here
[16:11] <LeoBodnar> gqrx works for me on a Mac
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[16:12] <torq> It works - I just don't know how to use it
[16:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Good starter here http://sdr.osmocom.org/trac/wiki/rtl-sdr
[16:14] <torq> Too complicated. Need something to tell me how to listen to bbc radio 1 :)
[16:14] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> also here http://eliasoenal.com/2012/09/30/osx-port-of-the-awesome-gqrx-sdr-software/
[16:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Buy a DAB radio ?
[16:16] <LeoBodnar> did you set settings ?
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[16:18] <torq> Yup. Got a waterfall and everything, can see peaks etc but just hearing static
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[16:18] <LeoBodnar> can you post screenshots?
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[16:18] <LeoBodnar> what mode are you in?
[16:19] <torq> Wide FM
[16:19] <mfa298> torq: for broadcast FM you'll need to set the mode to something like WFM
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[16:19] <torq> Yes. Got music finally
[16:20] <torq> It was the bandwidth- didn't realise I had to stretch it on screen
[16:21] <torq> Awesome
[16:21] <mfa298> broadcast radio uses a very high bandwidth ~200khz I think.
[16:21] <SpeedEvil> 75KHz for FM
[16:21] <torq> Ok. Got the musak, so where can I find digital transmissions
[16:21] <mfa298> if you start looking for Amateur radio comms or balloons you'll find they're much narrower.
[16:22] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Do you have a suitable aerial for 70cms/434MHz ?
[16:22] <torq> It's a short dvb-t aerial
[16:23] <torq> I know I will find something better soon
[16:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You will need something a little better than that
[16:23] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> aerials are tuned to a given band
[16:23] <LeoBodnar> i have used it before so it sort of works
[16:23] <LeoBodnar> but only as a proof of concept really
[16:24] <LeoBodnar> is it little mag mount thing?
[16:24] <torq> Any freq suggestions? Yes it's a mag mount
[16:24] <LeoBodnar> you need good solid ground play for it
[16:24] <torq> A filing cabinet
[16:24] <LeoBodnar> yes few sq.feet of solid metal
[16:25] <jcoxon> torq, could go looking for aprs
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> you should be able to receive balloons from maybe about 50-100 miles
[16:25] <jcoxon> on 144.800Mhz
[16:25] <LeoBodnar> if you have direct line of sight
[16:25] <jcoxon> as a test of the dongle
[16:25] <mfa298> torq: are you reasonablly close to an airport / seaport - you might be able to hear various radio chatter on those bands if your close.
[16:26] <torq> Got a massive peak at 145.502
[16:26] <fsphil> aprs can depend on area too
[16:27] <fsphil> there is none here at all
[16:27] <torq> 145.499mhz
[16:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If you hear something on 145.5 then switch to Narrow FM NFM
[16:27] <cuddykid> have a problem - the first of the video files from flight stops after about 20secs, it just freezes - appears like it continues to play in quicktime/VLC but no sound and frozen picture. The file size is 3.93GB indicating it did record everything and there are no errors given like corrupt MP4 file etc... however, it looks to have got corrupted somehow. Does anyone know how to recover the rest of the footage from that
[16:27] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> about 12-25KHz
[16:27] <fsphil> if you have a look around 400-405mhz at 12:00 UTC or 00:UTC you may hear weather balloons
[16:28] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Where abouts in the country are you torq ?
[16:28] <Joel_re> hey, does this look fine for telemetry data? -
[16:28] <torq> Cambridge
[16:28] <Joel_re> $$callsign,162540.00,1922.49041,N,07247.44952,E,1,05,2.60,23.7,27_TI,1012_P,3.49_batt_volt
[16:28] <Joel_re> do I need sentence id?
[16:28] <Joel_re> and the checksum
[16:29] <DL1SGP> cuddykid: this might help you http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?8654-How-to-repair-corrupted-MP4-files-from-a-GoPro.....for-free!
[16:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> In that case NFM on 404.8 will let you hear the Herstomnceux weather sonde when it gets high up needs a bandwidth about 10KHz
[16:29] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> times about midnight and midday
[16:29] <cuddykid> will have a look thanks DL1SGP
[16:29] <jcoxon> Joel_re, checksums are really recommended
[16:30] <jcoxon> (they might even be now compulsory)
[16:30] <Joel_re> Id have to store the entire string
[16:30] <fsphil> checksums are required
[16:30] <Joel_re> hm
[16:30] <fsphil> but they're very easy to do
[16:30] <jcoxon> are you using sprintf?
[16:30] <torq> Geoff-G8DHE: Thanks. Will try. Right now hearing various tones but no idea how to translate them
[16:30] <jcoxon> or txing each part individually?
[16:30] <Joel_re> txing each part individually
[16:31] <fsphil> I'd suggest not doing that
[16:31] <fsphil> it sometimes takes fldigi a few bytes to resync
[16:31] <fsphil> you wouldn't want that happening every field
[16:31] <Joel_re> its on the msp430 with 512byte ram, so im trying to save on ram
[16:31] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> For data transmissions then you need other software to decode the data SondeMonitor for weather Sondes, dl-fldigi for HAB balloons
[16:31] <Joel_re> hmm
[16:31] <fsphil> Joel_re: you could just update the CRC for each part as you're sending it
[16:32] <fsphil> the crc is calculated one character at a time
[16:32] <fsphil> and you don't have to do it all in one go
[16:32] <Joel_re> oh
[16:32] <Joel_re> let me have a look
[16:32] <fsphil> just run it on each part as you send it
[16:32] <torq> Geoff-G8DHE: Is there something I can check digital reception with right now i.e. Sstv or ads
[16:32] <fsphil> then at the end convert it to hex
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[16:32] <fsphil> remember not to include the $$ and * in the calculation
[16:33] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> you will need to download some software for the mode you want MMSTV for slowscan etc.
[16:33] <Joel_re> whats with the * ?
[16:33] <Joel_re> does the checksum need to be prefixed with it?
[16:33] <fsphil> the string is $$string*CRC
[16:33] <fsphil> yes
[16:33] <Joel_re> ok
[16:33] <fsphil> but the crc is calculated only from string
[16:34] <Joel_re> "Please note: The use of xor checksum for payload telemetry is not advised, this code is useful for checking sentences sent by the GPS. The CCITT checksum below has much better performance and is preferred for payload telemetry"
[16:34] <fsphil> use the 16-bit crc
[16:34] <Joel_re> Im not sure what it means by 'payload telemetery'
[16:35] <fsphil> it's the bit between $$ and *
[16:35] <Joel_re> ok
[16:36] <torq> Is there anything I can listen to with dl-fldigi now
[16:36] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol - the CRC16_CCITT is the one you're after
[16:36] <Joel_re> fsphil: yep, Im looking at that
[16:36] <fsphil> I've found very little that fldigi can decode on VHF or UHF
[16:36] <Joel_re> hoping it doesnt consume too much space
[16:36] <Joel_re> on the uC
[16:36] <fsphil> it shouldn't
[16:37] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Only if you can find a signal that dl-fldigi can decode, which is most stuff in the mateur radio bands but you will need an aerial for 70cms or 2m for that
[16:38] <torq> Okay. I can bash out a j pole in the garage a bit later
[16:38] <fsphil> fldigi's modes tend to be on HF
[16:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes that will do for a starter
[16:38] <mfa298> if you could attach a long wire onto the antenna you might find something on some of the higher HF bands if they're open.
[16:38] <fsphil> the main exception is HAB'ing :)
[16:38] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> a bear rtl device isn't going to hear those bands
[16:39] <torq> Wonder if I can get ads-b with a mag aerial
[16:39] <mfa298> assuming it's an R820T I think it's from 24MHz up so would get a couple of bands, but I'm not sure what propogation is like currently
[16:39] <mfa298> torq: you can but not a great range - I've done it using a Pi.
[16:40] <torq> Well, Stansted hold isn't too far from here
[16:44] <navrac_work> 10m is wide open - loads of american stations coming in strong, 6m is dead
[16:45] <navrac_work> lots of psk31 on 10m at the moment for fldigi to decode - just a long wire will do
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[16:49] <sa6bss> cuddykid: try m-player, helped me a few times when even vlc could not play the files, http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/news.html
[16:50] <cuddykid> thanks sa6bss
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[16:50] <cuddykid> currently running the repair program DL1SGP linked me to, hopefully it will work, if not I'll try that
[16:51] <sa6bss> yep, good luck!
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[16:52] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[16:53] <torq> I use projectX for mpg repair- will handle most stuff
[17:01] <Torq_> Test
[17:01] <eroomde> failed
[17:02] <Torq_> Agreed
[17:03] <fsphil> could do better
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[17:07] Nick change: Torq_ -> Torq
[17:12] Nick change: Torq -> Lala
[17:12] Nick change: Lala -> Torq123
[17:15] <eroomde> i love my friends
[17:15] <eroomde> the phone rings... 'can we come round for dinner?'
[17:15] <eroomde> 'no, i have no food and don't get home for a few hours.at yours instead?'
[17:15] <eroomde> '...... shall we go to the pub for dinner?'
[17:16] <eroomde> it's always me who cooks, or we eat out
[17:16] <eroomde> odd
[17:16] Nick change: Torq123 -> amell
[17:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Very odd
[17:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> we can find out why
[17:17] <eroomde> i do like food... but then so do they
[17:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> by all coming round to yours for dinner ?
[17:17] <eroomde> lol
[17:17] <eroomde> i do think we should have a stab at a 'banquet' after the conf this year
[17:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes !
[17:18] <eroomde> by 'banquet' i just mean an organised stab at all going for a meal after, for those who want to
[17:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You cooking ?
[17:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> ;-)
[17:18] <eroomde> as i think lots of people wanted to last time but everyone had to split up to distribute themselves among grenwich's various establishments
[17:18] <eroomde> i can cook for about 20
[17:18] <eroomde> above that it gets a bit industrial
[17:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes the venue needs to be chosen with that in mind
[17:19] <eroomde> i did our office christmas dinner the last couple fo years which weighed in at about 15 people
[17:21] <Willdude123_> Just received VOA radiogram from North Carolina. Pretty cool - MFSK
[17:22] <eroomde> nice Willdude123_
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[17:22] <Willdude123_> More capitalist propaganda than my history classroom.
[17:23] <Willdude123_> eroomde, I think they only do it because a guy who works with them got bored and decided he wanted to play with datamodes with a ridiculously high amount of power :)
[17:23] <Willdude123_> They use things like flamp and flmsg too
[17:26] <Willdude123_> Right I'm off for a run - need to find a suitable podcast first
[17:26] <eroomde> i'm also after some good technical podcasts for going for runs
[17:26] <eroomde> something to keep my brain distracted
[17:28] <Willdude123_> Yes - I need something to distract me from the fact that I'm only burning like 100 calories
[17:28] <Willdude123_> BBC podcasts are always too posh or mainstream
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[17:30] Action: Willdude123_ is listening to a learn english podcast
[17:31] <eroomde> i can speak english
[17:31] <Willdude123_> It's interesting
[17:31] <eroomde> a narrative arc is good for podcasts and keeping my attention
[17:32] <Willdude123_> Indeed
[17:32] <Willdude123_> GB2RS? Nice story to that
[17:32] <eroomde> but a lot of the more technical podcasts also seem to have slightly lower production values
[17:32] <mfa298> find a good R4 game show
[17:32] <eroomde> just two guys talking on skype, with lots of pauses
[17:32] <eroomde> i'm pretty worn out by samey R4 panel shows
[17:33] <eroomde> apart from ISIHAC, there's not much going on
[17:34] <mfa298> that was as much a suggestion for Willdude123_, I was assuming you knew of most of them already
[17:34] <Willdude123_> Blah blah blah G0XXX has died ,G6XXX is retiring, G3XXX has been appointed chair of the XXX comittee.
[17:34] <Willdude123_> ^GB2RS
[17:36] <eroomde> doesn't sound like a very good podcast
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[17:41] <LeoBodnar> Upu: have you got your heat sealer yet?
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[17:50] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: i think he's gone
[17:50] <eroomde> for a day
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[17:57] <LeoBodnar> k
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[18:25] <DL7AD> fsphil: ping
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[18:27] <LeoBodnar> beautiful PCB layout http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26487218
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[18:28] <eroomde> lol
[18:28] <eroomde> it might be an especially well tuned circuit
[18:30] <LeoBodnar> looks like one of them arduino jobbies
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[18:31] <eroomde> yes
[18:31] <eroomde> and probably not a tuned circuit
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[18:33] <eroomde> the russians are a bit scary
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> It's very not inconcievable that you can stimulate the tongue in various manners
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> But - most of taste comes from the nose
[18:34] <eroomde> i was looking up something and coincidently came across some engines that used lquid flourine as an oxidiser
[18:34] <LeoBodnar> sour i think is just electrolysis side-effects
[18:34] <eroomde> but that reminded me of some notes about epxeriments with the 'ultimate' oxidiser
[18:34] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_trifluoride#Rocket_propellant
[18:34] <LeoBodnar> have you seen "engines that came from teh cold"?
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> I dunno.
[18:34] <SpeedEvil> Ozone is kinda better
[18:35] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: yes
[18:35] <LeoBodnar> it's probably genius tech but saved through corruption
[18:36] <eroomde> there are a lot of good russian engines from the 60s and 70s that are still very good by today's standards
[18:36] <eroomde> they cracked staged combustion
[18:36] <eroomde> which is a more efficient cycle than the gas-generator cycle that was used elsewhere (like the usa)
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[18:39] <LeoBodnar> what is overall thermal efficiency of best rocket engines?
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[18:39] <Lunar_Lander> damn wrong button
[18:39] <eroomde> 99%?
[18:39] <eroomde> it's actually not mega hard
[18:40] <LeoBodnar> with such temperatures difference yes
[18:40] <eroomde> if you use regernative cooling, the heat that leaks out the combustion chamber wall goes back into heating up the fuel that's cooling the wall in channels
[18:40] <eroomde> the thing that makes staged combustion more efficient than gas egnerator is down to pumps
[18:40] <SpeedEvil> Temperature is wierd
[18:40] <eroomde> you need a lot of pressure to inject fuel into a chamber
[18:41] <eroomde> you can do that 1 of two ways: 1) pressurised fuel tanks or 2) a pump before the injectors
[18:41] <eroomde> option 2 is much more efficient as it saves on tankage weight (for high pressure tanks)
[18:41] <LeoBodnar> rotating chamber!
[18:42] <eroomde> so to run the pumps they tee-off some fuel and oxidiser to burn together to drive a turbine
[18:42] <eroomde> which in turn can run a pump
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> Or c) massive expansion ratio (only for vacuum)
[18:42] <eroomde> sealing those pumps is super hard as the turbine needs to be separate from the compressor, and the shaft has to be good for ~100,000rpm
[18:42] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: no
[18:42] <eroomde> but no for a reason i'll explain when i'm finished
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> I guess it's only a relative improvement
[18:43] Action: SpeedEvil waits.
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[18:44] <eroomde> anyway, to drive the turbine, you usually want a non-stoichiometric mixture ratio, because stoichiometric is super hot
[18:44] <eroomde> and does nasty things to spinny turbines
[18:44] <eroomde> so they usually run fuel rich to keep it cool, and because fuel rich is vastly nicer than oxygen rich to the metallurgy
[18:45] <eroomde> that measn you have a load of stuff with unburnt fuel left over to exhaust somehow. gas generator (usa) engines just dump it overboard
[18:45] <eroomde> the russians re-injected it into the turbine to burn completely
[18:45] <eroomde> which is really much harder, thermodynamically
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> and perhaps control-wise
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> Sounds like lots of fun startup issues
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[18:46] <eroomde> however they also did a cunning thing by making turbines that burnms oxygen rich for the oxidiser pumps, becauser there is inevitably leakage through to the compressor section from the turbine section, and if you had a fuel-rich leakage into the compressed oxidiser, you'd have an explosion in your pumps
[18:47] <eroomde> and americans, when they got wind of this, were totally convinced it was counter-intelligence to make them spend billions trying in vain to make matallurgy that could cope with oxidier-rich exhaust
[18:47] <eroomde> but the russians actually did it - they had some seriously good materials scientists
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> There is a hell of a disconnect between russian science and 'western'
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> Or at least there has been
[18:48] <eroomde> infinite expansionr atios are bad
[18:48] <SpeedEvil> Oh - right - condensasiont
[18:48] <eroomde> because of adiabatic expansion, you get a temperature drop
[18:48] <eroomde> if you expand too muchm, gaseos components start to liquify or go solid
[18:48] <eroomde> and then you totally loose your nozzle efficiency
[18:49] <eroomde> so that imposes practical limits on expansionr atios
[18:49] <eroomde> to address your point speedevil ^
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[18:49] <eroomde> right, i am due to got to the pub
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> I forgot about that for a moment.
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> Have a good night!
[18:49] <eroomde> you too!
[18:49] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[20:30] <Willdude123_> I just had an idea
[20:30] <Willdude123_> RTTY
[20:30] <Willdude123_> In minecraft
[20:30] <Willdude123_> Just without the radio
[20:30] <Willdude123_> Or the teletype
[20:31] <mikestir> hmmm. did you finish your program yet?
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[20:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> could someone run APRS -> habitat importer for SP9UOB-12 ?
[20:33] <Willdude123_> mikestir, nearly - taking a break
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[20:39] <fsphil> running SP9UOB-Tom
[20:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: thanks, it'll soon leave slovak coverage
[20:42] <Babs_> fsphil - if i have say a 5 digit hexadecimal number, how do i just get the last two digits out of it? the ublox checksum is just the last two digits, and while i am calculating the checksum correctly, mine is too large, and only the last two digits matter
[20:42] <Babs_> ?
[20:42] <fsphil> for hex you can just & 0xFF it
[20:43] <Babs_> ooo, what is &oxFF?
[20:43] <fsphil> 0xFF is 11111111 in binary
[20:43] <fsphil> & is logic and
[20:44] <fsphil> which returns only the bits in both values that are both set to 1
[20:44] <fsphil> so if you AND something with 0xFF the result is the 8 least signicant bits
[20:44] <fsphil> in the value
[20:45] <mfa298> I think you mean bitwise and rather than logic and
[20:45] <fsphil> yes
[20:45] <fsphil> logic and is && right?
[20:45] <mfa298> there's a nice example on http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/bitwise_operators.html
[20:45] <mfa298> logic and is &&
[20:46] <Babs_> cool - thanks, will have a look
[20:47] <fsphil> the alternative is to store the checksum in a uint8_t (unsigned char) variable
[20:47] <fsphil> the value will wrap around (correctly) when it goes above 255
[20:48] <fsphil> isn't the ubx checksum 16-bit though?
[20:48] <Babs_> it is 2 bytes
[20:48] <fsphil> then you'll want to && it with 0xFFFF
[20:49] <fsphil> er
[20:49] <fsphil> &
[20:49] <Babs_> at the moment i have it in an unsigned long
[20:49] <fsphil> uint16_t will do the job
[20:49] <fsphil> which may be unsigned short
[20:49] <fsphil> but using the stdint.h types is better
[20:50] <Babs_> http://pastie.org/8899392
[20:50] <Babs_> lines 158-177
[20:51] <fsphil> ah
[20:51] <fsphil> yes just make your two check variables uint8_t's
[20:51] <Babs_> sorry, there is load of debugging lines in there
[20:51] <Babs_> cool, thanks
[20:52] <fsphil> is the packet always going to be 90 bytes long?
[20:52] <Babs_> in this case yes
[20:53] <Babs_> it is a standard push out
[20:53] <Babs_> i guess when i run on and might call other packets i could make the function more general
[20:53] <Babs_> i could set up an array with a list of potential call functions and their respective lengths and do it that way
[20:53] <Babs_> but for the moment the nav-pvt has all the stuff i need
[20:54] Nick change: amell -> Torq
[20:56] <Torq> why are there two SP9UOB?
[20:57] <fsphil> one is the APRS position
[20:57] <fsphil> I may stop the importer if the normal telemetry keeps coming in
[20:58] <Torq> 1.09V in battery?
[20:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: please do. Can You later run callsign translation sp9uob-12 -> sp9uob ?
[20:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> Torq: yup - -40 celcius
[20:59] <Torq> icey
[20:59] <Torq> where are you expecting it to end up?
[20:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> PSU can run as low as 0.6V
[21:00] <fsphil> looks like it might swing back around up to the netherlands
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alan-Titchmarsh-Fat-Balls-Pack/dp/B009MOEZBU/ref=pd_ys_sf_s_3146281_a1_5_p?ie=UTF8&refRID=0H9R1JDT7TDB6JRWA0Y1
[21:03] <DL7AD> good evening :)
[21:03] <fsphil> howdy DL7AD
[21:03] <Torq> SpeedEvil - the textual content of that URL had me very worried.
[21:03] <DL7AD> fsphil: did you test the software? :P
[21:03] <SpeedEvil> It's completely work safe
[21:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: Hi, do You have Italians on Your List :) ?
[21:04] <fsphil> DL7AD: nope :) I have it in front of me now though, will see if I can power it up
[21:04] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: YES already wrote to everyone
[21:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: thank you :-)
[21:04] <DL7AD> fsphil: thx... tell me, if you have problems with it
[21:05] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: only one answered yet. that station which is on the map. but i think he never received balloons
[21:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: good moment to start :-)
[21:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: out of coverage. Please run importer with callsign translation if possible
[21:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: not yet ;-)
[21:09] <fsphil> d'oh
[21:10] <fsphil> DL7AD: You don't happen to know what voltages these can take?
[21:10] <Torq> if out of coverage can someone explain how APRS is working?
[21:10] <fsphil> the aprs receiver network is quite big, it's not out of aprs coverage
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[21:11] <Torq> this balloon has dual tx?
[21:11] <fsphil> yea
[21:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> Torq: just one, but smart :-)
[21:12] <Torq> I found it on aprs.fi
[21:12] <DL7AD> fsphil: ??? what? the pecan?
[21:13] <DL7AD> fsphil: 0.7 ~ 3.6
[21:13] <DL7AD> V
[21:13] <fsphil> thanks
[21:13] <fsphil> was about to put 5v into it
[21:14] <Torq> "This station appears to be flying at high altitude and using digipeaters, which causes serious congestion in the APRS network."
[21:15] <DL7AD> fsphil: you can do 5v.... but not long. because the TPS61201 will switch to a linear regulator when feeding it above 3.3v
[21:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> Torq: just ignore it. The station is working with 15 miliwatts output only, without such long path, packets can not reach igare
[21:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> igate
[21:20] <fsphil> forgot how many LEDs where on the pecan. thought it had went on fire
[21:20] <fsphil> it's sinking 500ma at 1.3v
[21:22] <DL7AD> o.o not good....
[21:22] <DL7AD> there should be 4
[21:22] <fsphil> two now. red and blue
[21:23] <DL7AD> blue means transmitting
[21:23] <DL7AD> red is timepulse at gps
[21:23] <fsphil> it is, I can hear the rtty
[21:23] <fsphil> red is constant
[21:23] <fsphil> but I had huge gps lock problems with this board before
[21:23] <fsphil> quite a lot more current drain than I expected
[21:23] <DL7AD> hm.... you cant transmit when aquiring gps
[21:24] <DL7AD> *must not transmit
[21:24] <fsphil> orange light just came on
[21:24] <DL7AD> rtty should work fine. but dominoEX does not work with mine due to pll problems
[21:25] <DL7AD> the interesting thing should be the domEX code :)
[21:25] <fsphil> these are seriously bright
[21:25] <DL7AD> okay...then i thing thomas put different leds on it than mine had
[21:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: can You run importer process?
[21:33] <fsphil> running
[21:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: can You do callsign translation ?
[21:34] <fsphil> not sure how
[21:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> fsphil: ok, thanks - leave it :-)
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[21:44] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: IN3AQK has a mountain in the balloons direction.
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[21:53] <malgar> I'm now quite near SP9UOB position but unfortunately my sdr dongle isn't with me. I can use it just monday :(
[21:53] <DL7AD> hm...? did you forgot it at qrl?
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[21:54] <malgar> qrl? no, I'm away from home this weekend
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[21:55] <DL7AD> :(
[21:55] <malgar> I could return but it is a 2h trip
[21:56] <DL7AD> rofl.... stay at where you are.... :P
[21:56] <malgar> what is the speed of SP9UOB?
[21:56] <Torq> 125mph
[21:56] <DL7AD> pretty fast this time
[21:57] <malgar> now I see.. it will be above my head in about 2 hours
[21:57] <Torq> shoot it down?
[21:57] <DL7AD> :D
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[21:58] <Torq> btw how big is the board on this balloon?
[21:58] <DL7AD> Torq: not big... most time the boards have a size of 5x2cm
[21:59] <Torq> this one seems to have dual tx so wondered if it was bigger
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[21:59] <DL7AD> nope... its a single transmitter which can to both
[22:00] <OH7HJ-1> GE Gents! Anyone know balloon MJH-1 freq and mode? Not visible on dl-fldigi flight list.
[22:00] <DL7AD> OH7HJ-1: good evening :)
[22:00] <OH7HJ-1> :)
[22:00] <DL7AD> OH7HJ-1: the battery is empty
[22:00] <craag> OH7HJ-1: Battery ran out last night
[22:00] <malgar> I'm tempted of taking the car and get the sdr
[22:01] <DL7AD> malgar: :P
[22:01] <OH7HJ-1> OK flight aborted by empty battery, tnx!
[22:02] <malgar> is the time UTC?
[22:02] <Torq> whats the longest flight ever? Is Leos flight to the ural mountains the longest?
[22:03] <DL7AD> Torq: B-11 8 days
[22:03] <Torq> thats urals right? jeez.
[22:03] <DL7AD> no
[22:03] <malgar> what is SP9UOB-12? another transmitter?
[22:03] <DL7AD> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/index.html
[22:03] <Torq> its APRS
[22:03] <malgar> ok
[22:04] <DL7AD> malgar: no the same balloon same transmitter
[22:04] <Torq> B-11 is pretty mental. What about distance travelled?
[22:05] <DL7AD> Torq: nobody measured it... but should be several thousand km's
[22:06] <malgar> I'm planning where to go with my antenna
[22:06] <mfa298> Torq: there's a list of records on http://arhab.org/ and http://arhab.org/
[22:06] <craag> SP9UOB freq?
[22:06] <malgar> It's full of mountains here
[22:06] <DL7AD> craag: 144.250
[22:07] <craag> Cheers DL7AD, continuous rtty?
[22:07] <DL7AD> craag: no idea
[22:07] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom has no website for it
[22:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> Torg B-11 was 8031Km and even that is a little short as parts of the flight path were never recorded and hence straight lines between those points! http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2013_Flights/B-11_20130901/B-11%20re-sorted.kml
[22:10] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: *thumbs up
[22:11] <malgar> I have the simple small antenna of the DVB-T dongle.. do you thing that could be enought to receive the balloon? I guess about 50 km in straight line in the closest point
[22:11] <malgar> *think
[22:11] <malgar> *enough
[22:11] <mfa298> if you've got a good line of sight to the balloon it might work.
[22:11] <craag> DL7AD: It's intermittent with RSID it looks like
[22:12] <mfa298> I tried an rtlsdr with the magmount it came with once and it was much worse than using a proper antenna for the band.
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[22:17] <malgar> I give up.. the balloon is too fast and my sdr dongle is too far away :(
[22:17] <Torq> A lesson never to travel without your dongle?
[22:17] <malgar> I'm asking to friends in northern italy
[22:17] <DL7AD> craag: ahhh
[22:17] <malgar> Torq: +1
[22:17] <DL7AD> Torq: like
[22:18] <DL7AD> malgar: ^^
[22:18] <malgar> :P
[22:19] <Willdude123_> So I spent the evening making this huge 8 bit XOR thing in minecraft
[22:19] <craag> DL7AD: Getting stronger, decoding about 50% now.
[22:19] <craag> 50% of characters that is
[22:19] <DL7AD> craag: hm...? did you get an sdr?
[22:19] <craag> nowhere near a full sentence
[22:19] <craag> DL7AD: Tht globaltuner
[22:19] <DL7AD> hehe allright
[22:20] <Willdude123_> And I'm about to blow it up.
[22:20] <DL7AD> craag: didnt know youR call
[22:20] Nick change: craag -> craag_M0DNY
[22:22] <Willdude123_> So yeah - this was it http://i.imgur.com/ZWcyh0i.jpg I was going to implement a stream cipher and stuff but I realised the thing didn't work and I still can't figure out why. But still an interesting cryptography project
[22:25] <malgar> in this moment I'm inside the green circle :( without a receiver :(
[22:27] <DL7AD> craag_M0DNY: packets still crushed
[22:27] <Laurenceb> i can't spell
[22:27] <malgar> what's the frequency? 434?
[22:27] <craag_M0DNY> Heh, didn't know you could search by name
[22:27] <craag_M0DNY> DL7AD: Yeah, getting better here, but no greens yet.
[22:27] <Laurenceb> then we have both learnt something :P
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[22:29] <craag_M0DNY> Amazing stability on sp9uob's signal
[22:29] <craag_M0DNY> Haven't needed AFC in 5 packets now
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[22:31] <malgar> what's the frequency? 434mhz?
[22:31] <DL7AD> craag_M0DNY: yep.... does he use a TCXO?
[22:31] <craag_M0DNY> Must be, quite a good one too.
[22:31] <malgar> of sp9uob
[22:31] <craag_M0DNY> malgar: 144.250
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[22:32] <DL7AD> now it moved
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[22:33] <craag_M0DNY> Not here, still on +- about 5hz
[22:33] <DL7AD> nearly got one 2 cycles ago: $$$$SP9UOB,264,223040,46.1301,12.4920n,8526,8<69l1 ,242k42,33245,105,1b*7D65
[22:33] <craag_M0DNY> Does he step the power?
[22:33] <craag_M0DNY> It gets stronger, then suddenly weaker
[22:33] <malgar> rtty? dominoex?
[22:33] <DL7AD> *shrug
[22:34] <DL7AD> dominoEX
[22:34] <craag_M0DNY> malgar: rtty 100baud 600hz shift
[22:34] <DL7AD> ehm rtty yes
[22:37] <craag_M0DNY> green :D
[22:37] <DL7AD> $$$$SPUOB,271,223645,45.96472,12.35779,8530,8475,116,242,-41,33226,105,9b*C2CB
[22:37] <craag_M0DNY> aww
[22:37] <DL7AD> red....
[22:37] <craag_M0DNY> missing a 9!
[22:38] <DL7AD> hm...
[22:38] <malgar> ok.. maybe in less than 2 hours we will have a receiver in bologna
[22:38] <Torq> DL7AD: you are the station in Rovigo?
[22:38] <Laurenceb> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/07/stratominx/
[22:38] <DL7AD> Torq: yep.... remote station
[22:39] <Laurenceb> i can't even understand what they are trying to say
[22:39] <craag_M0DNY> Torq: THat's me (remotely)
[22:39] <Torq> you mean your kit is there, but you are somewhere else?
[22:39] <malgar> BrainDamage: do you have a receiving device? there is a balloon above northern italy :)
[22:39] <DL7AD> Torq: we are using Globaltuners
[22:40] <Torq> oh, thats interesting.
[22:40] <DL7AD> damn.... $$$$SP8UOB,265,223941,44.94133,12.29273,8124,8467,115,242,-41,33265,105,9b*@700
[22:40] <DL7AD> is it SP8UOB ? :P
[22:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: sp9upb :-)
[22:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: sp9uob :-)
[22:41] <DL7AD> :D
[22:41] <malgar> very interesting!
[22:41] <DL7AD> got it!
[22:42] <craag_M0DNY> That one was *STRONG*
[22:42] <Torq> How come you can use a remote tuner, when you don't have control over antenna.
[22:42] <fsphil> omni direction antenna most likey
[22:43] <DL7AD> yes... most time its a Discone antenna
[22:44] <Torq> that looks good. maybe thats what i need.
[22:46] <Torq> http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/desktop-discone-antenna-qt39n
[22:46] <Torq> expensive!
[22:46] <malgar> indoor? really?
[22:46] <fsphil> that's going to be pretty useless
[22:47] <DL7AD> craag_M0DNY: RxID does not work.... :/ does it?
[22:47] <Torq> marlin sell 90% useless crap.
[22:47] <Torq> maplin
[22:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: too cold for it :-(
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[22:47] <fsphil> if you're going to spend that much, go a little bit further and get a Diamond X-50, or Watson W-50
[22:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: timings are essential
[22:48] <fsphil> that on the roof makes an excellent antenna for tracking or general scanning
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[22:48] <Torq> http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/dual-band-270cm-mobile-antenna-a66ju - any good?
[22:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Torq http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/search/?search=discone
[22:48] <Torq> APRS and balloon listening.
[22:49] <Torq> 50 quid a bit steep. 25 is more like it.
[22:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Discone is wider coverage, most 2m/70cms aerials will have higher gain
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[22:50] <Torq> i haven't got anywhere to put this disc one.
[22:50] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: gain?
[22:50] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: i would say loss rather gain
[22:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> ? Compared to what ?
[22:51] <mfa298> DL7AD: a 2/70 antenna will have gain.
[22:51] <mfa298> although the discone probably doesn't have much gain.
[22:51] <DL7AD> Geoff-G8DHE: as mfa298 said. compared to a 2/70 combination
[22:51] <malgar> fsphil: and what do you suggest for my car? a good magmount for balloon tracking
[22:52] <malgar> my receiver is an sdr dongle
[22:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> Discones have very low performance in terms of gain, a 2m/70cms aerial will have a positive gain!
[22:52] <Torq> does this discone come with bird zapper to stop the bastards shitting all over my roof.
[22:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> compared to istropic or dipole
[22:52] <mfa298> DL7AD: the sentence Geoff-G8DHE said is right - he said the 2/70 has gain not the discone.
[22:53] <DL7AD> mfa298: ah okay... then i misunderstood Geoff-G8DHE
[22:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> nps
[22:54] <malgar> closest point to my location now
[22:54] <fsphil> I've had good success with these: http://cpc.farnell.com/watson/wsm-270/wsm-270-mini-mag-antenna/dp/IT44456
[22:54] <Torq> fsphil thats what I'm using right now.
[22:55] <Torq> stuck on a big old metal filing cabinet
[22:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Weren't you using the one that came with the Dongle ?
[22:56] <Torq> yep. looks identical to that
[22:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope different length, plus a small coil at the bottom
[22:56] <Torq> actually. i don't think it came with dongle. I found it in my box of bits.
[22:56] <fsphil> this is vastly better than the one that comes with the dongle
[22:57] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: CW was a good idea
[22:57] <fsphil> it's about 40/50cm long
[22:57] <Torq> ok
[22:57] <Torq> bigger than mine then. you win.
[22:57] <fsphil> this is what I use when chasing
[22:57] <Torq> mind you don't poke yourself in the eye
[22:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Aerials have to be tuned to the right length
[22:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> normally a 1/4 or 1/2 wave length
[22:58] <Torq> trying to find something suitable/cheap at maplin
[22:58] <malgar> Geoff-G8DHE: 1 wave lenght isn't good? 70 cm
[22:58] <malgar> for 434mhz I mean
[22:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> which is why people quote 2m/144MHz or 70cms/434Mhz firstthe wavelength in round numbers then the frequency more accurate
[23:00] <mfa298> malgar: 1/4 wavelength groundplane or 1/2 wavelength dipole are the magic sizes for simple antennas.
[23:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> It can be made to work but normally a full wave will have 4 lobes to the radiation pattern
[23:00] <fsphil> 1/1 wouldn't work well at all
[23:01] <malgar> ok
[23:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> 1/4 wave when you have a reflecting ground plane makes it appear like a 1/2 wave
[23:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> The ends of an aerial have effectively zero current flowing hence why 1/2 wave is used as it has zero current atthe ends
[23:03] <mfa298> as 70cm is close to the 3rd harmonic of 2m it's possible to have antennas which are good for both bands which then give something that's more than 1/4 for 70cms (like that wsm-270)
[23:03] <Torq> if i was to buy just one antenna what would i buy
[23:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> If just for amateur bands then a 2m/70cms aerial
[23:03] <Torq> this is irritating. I can't reasonably keep an antenna for every band,
[23:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> for more general use then a Discone
[23:04] <Torq> for listening to balloons, APRS, SSTV and occasionally, FM radio.
[23:04] <mfa298> Torq: if it's for use at home a simple 2/70 white stick vertical is good for most things you're likely to be interested in (should be good for HAB and will do a reasonable job for other interesting bands)
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[23:05] <Torq> discone is a problem. I can't put it outside, the pigeons would destroy it.
[23:05] <fsphil> my X-50 will pick up anything above 50mhz
[23:05] <fsphil> up to around 600mhz
[23:05] <mfa298> SSTV tends to be HF - do you mean SSDV as used on balloons ?
[23:05] <Torq> anything that gives a nice picture :)
[23:05] <fsphil> an HF antenna can be as simple as a long wire around the garden
[23:06] <Torq> HF is what freq?
[23:06] <mfa298> APRS and Ballons are on the 2/70 amateur bands - so a 2/70 white stick vertical is a good choice
[23:06] <malgar> so how can watson wsm-270 be good for ballon tracking if it 80 cm long?
[23:06] <mfa298> HF is 3-30MHz (although usually means <30MHz)
[23:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its why we end up with lots of aerials :-) http://www.g8dhe.com/amateurradio/shack.htm
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[23:07] <fsphil> it's not 80cm long
[23:07] <mfa298> malgar: it's not it's around 46cm long with a bit of matching at the bottom to make it good for 2m and 70cm
[23:07] <fsphil> it's about 45cm
[23:07] <mfa298> snap
[23:07] <Torq> my wife would have a fit if our study looked like yours.
[23:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> the coil and an aerial 5/8 long matches quite nicley for both bands
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[23:08] <fsphil> my room isn't far off that
[23:08] <fsphil> except Geoff-G8DHE's is better organised
[23:08] <Torq> I see the WX2 2/70 now. That looks like what I need.
[23:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> My wife has her own study ;-) just as bad as mine she is 2e1heg!
[23:08] <fsphil> hah
[23:09] <fsphil> normally that Watson comes with a BNC plug, and a BNC > SMA adaptor
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[23:09] <mfa298> that looks like a callsign from when being a 2e1 was more challenging - I seem to recall it was very limited bands.
[23:09] <fsphil> depending on your radio you may need an additional adapotr
[23:09] <Torq> notice your WX2 has three elements coming out of it. Is that cosmetic of really?
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[23:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> A little more than cosmetic, it has a capacitance that matches the lower section correctly for impeadance
[23:10] <Willdude123> So I got my compression pl259s
[23:10] <fsphil> 10ghz repeater. nice
[23:10] <Willdude123> Seems pretty straightforward
[23:11] <Willdude123> But the method detailed in the book won't work with it
[23:11] Nick change: bertrik_ -> bertrik
[23:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> fsphil, http://www.videorepeater.co.uk/
[23:12] <fsphil> arg, my eyes
[23:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> :-)
[23:12] <Willdude123> fsphil: any new developments on the ntx2 video thing?
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[23:13] <mfa298> Willdude123:
[23:13] <mfa298> http://www.arrl.org/nl/cu/image/Contest%20Update%202011%20Feb%202/Clamp-style%20PL-259.jpg
[23:13] <Willdude123> They are like that, but the leftmost bit is the only moveable one
[23:14] <cm13g09> evening mfa298
[23:14] <fsphil> Willdude123: nothing too interesting yet. just tidying up the code a bit
[23:14] <mfa298> that should give an idea of how to wire it up. if its very different take a picture of the parts you've got
[23:14] <mfa298> evening cm13g09
[23:15] <Willdude123> mfa298: okay
[23:15] <mfa298> with all the ones I've had you slip the nut, (washer if it comes with one), rubber ring over the coax.
[23:16] <cm13g09> today is obviously one of those "Let's see how many believe the media" news days....
[23:16] <bertrik> Willdude123: what is the ntx2 video thing?
[23:17] <mfa298> then you either strip the coax and there's a piece which pushed in the end (lower Image) or a larger metal piece you slip over the coax which then traps the braid between the metal body of the casing.
[23:18] <Willdude123> Ah they are more or less the same as that mfa298
[23:25] <Willdude123> Well crap
[23:25] <Willdude123> I just lost half the plug
[23:27] <Torq> is SP3OSJ moving?
[23:28] <Willdude123> Damn. Don't want to have to buy a new plug for £4
[23:28] <Willdude123> Oh my god
[23:28] <Willdude123> I feel so stupid
[23:28] <Willdude123> It was in the plug
[23:29] <Torq> lol
[23:29] <Willdude123> So I don't quite get how the braid gets trapped in the thing
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[23:30] <Torq> isn't the braid shorted to the shielding.
[23:31] <mfa298> Willdude123: it depends a bit on what parts the plug comes with.
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[23:31] <Torq> can we have pic?
[23:31] <Willdude123> Its like the upper one
[23:33] <mfa298> you thread the parts onto the cable like that shows and then the braid gets trapped between the plug casing and the right most inner part
[23:33] <mfa298> in that image the stripped braid is probably inside the plug as the centre of the coax will probably have been soldered onto the pin.
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[23:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Youtube of same style but for N http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSgw7UVfriY
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[23:34] <Torq> yeah the right most part pushes the braid against the inside of the plug
[23:36] <DL7AD> craag_M0DNY: blub!
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[23:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Torq if you tune to 404.8MHz you may hear a weather Sonde from Herstmonceux shortly, its tracking North and will fly up the East coast in the next hour o so
[23:40] <Torq> thanks for that. what would i hear? anything to display data?
[23:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> One sec I'll put a screen shot of path and waterfall up
[23:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/Sondes/index.php?ind=3
[23:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Audibly its a high pitched whine with a buzz as well, need NFM with about 10KHz bandwidth
[23:44] <Torq> what bandwidth is your screenshot?
[23:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> It will be a little while till its in your range I suspect - bandwidth of the grey area is 10KHz
[23:45] <bertrik> You can probably hear the 1 second data repetition period in the signal
[23:46] <Torq> thanks. nothing yet
[23:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> To decode it you need a progam called SondeMonitor https://www.coaa.co.uk/sondemonitor.htm
[23:46] <Torq> looked at that earlier, doesn't seem to work on macs
[23:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes I think its Windows only
[23:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> The Camobourne Sonde from Cornwall is also just appearing for me on 404.2MHz
[23:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> *Camborne
[23:51] <Torq> nothing yet here
[23:52] <Torq> then again i do have a dinky aerial.
[23:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> They normally unscrew and you can attach a longer one for the band of interest
[23:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> Try a length about 37cms for the Sondes
[23:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> but it will need to be outside and n a good metallic surface
[23:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right I'm off for me beauty sleep - never get enough of it afk
[23:57] <Torq> DL7AD: you stopped tracking ?
[23:58] <DL7AD> Torq: im currently watch german news on ARD ^^
[23:58] <DL7AD> *ing
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[00:00] --- Sun Mar 9 2014