highaltitude.log.20140306

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[00:25] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, few of the guys I know are using this one... http://www.ti.com/product/sn65hvd232
[00:28] <LeoBodnar> thanks aadamson good info
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[08:09] <fsphil> moorning
[08:12] <ibanezmatt13> morning
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[08:38] <eroomde> morning
[08:41] <SpeedEvil> Morning!
[08:41] <SpeedEvil> Or not.
[08:41] Action: SpeedEvil is unsure.
[08:41] Action: fsphil confirms
[08:41] <SpeedEvil> It might not be.
[08:41] <SpeedEvil> If I go back to sleep, it'll turn out it wasn't.
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[09:32] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: Blog update at http://t.co/yq89JR6fea. T-9 days and counting... hopefully #ukhas
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[09:33] <daveake> "Mr Upu" :)
[09:34] <LeoBodnar> morning *
[09:36] <fsphil> about time: http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/cookstown/
[09:36] <fsphil> first time it's predicted a landing nearby in sooo many months
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[09:36] <eroomde> jet stream is buggering off
[09:36] <eroomde> finally
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[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> yes, about time
[09:36] <daveake> it is, at last
[09:37] <eroomde> only 1hr 40 from mine to dave's
[09:37] <eroomde> i keep forgetting that oxford is near everywhere
[09:38] <eroomde> you hear 'ross on wye' and my mental model (developed in west sussex) is jesus, that's in f*cking WALES
[09:38] <eroomde> but actually in oxford basically every (except for, y'know, the north) is less that 2 hours away
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[09:38] <daveake> Yes I've had a few people ask about my "move to Wales"
[09:39] <fsphil> everywhere is a flight/ferry trip away
[09:39] <fsphil> from here
[09:39] <daveake> It's 12 miles short of Wales, plus I have my own personal motorway 1.5 miles away
[09:39] <eroomde> or a river
[09:39] <eroomde> for a unrapped escape
[09:39] <eroomde> unrapid*
[09:40] <daveake> Yes 1 mile to the river
[09:40] <daveake> and wye not go there
[09:41] <fsphil> dafyddke
[09:42] <fsphil> it'll all go horribly wrong when Wales invades England
[09:46] <eroomde> the school with which i was hoping to demo the little rocket engine have had a bit of a humourless response to some stuff i put in the risk assessment
[09:46] <fsphil> uh-oh
[09:46] <eroomde> i said 'Children beneath the age of 13 do not burn, they just char'
[09:47] <eroomde> the school's H&S person has got into a bit of a flap about it
[09:49] <daveake> Anyone 127 or under will char
[09:49] <UpuWork> haha
[09:50] <fsphil> signed char?
[09:50] <craag> lol
[09:51] <ibanezmatt13> singed car
[09:51] <ibanezmatt13> char
[09:51] <fsphil> except on arm
[09:51] <daveake> (sadly, I my first thought was that eroomde was going for that joke, then I saw "13")
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[09:51] <fsphil> NERD ... yea I thought the same
[09:51] <daveake> I feel better now :)
[09:51] <fsphil> the word char is ruined for me
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[09:52] <fsphil> H+S people in general are humourless
[09:53] <eroomde> you can firce gcc-avr to make an int as 8 bits
[09:53] <eroomde> as a flag to sneak into someone's makefile, it's right up there in the high-amusement stakes
[09:53] <eroomde> force*
[09:53] <fsphil> int that the truth
[09:53] <daveake> char post[5] ... http://www.flickr.com/photos/52323442@N03/10983018955/
[09:55] <Joel_re> hey, where do you guys place the pressure sensor
[09:55] <Joel_re> do I just expose it outside?
[09:55] <Joel_re> the BMP085
[09:56] <daveake> Inside and don't seal completely :)
[09:56] <eroomde> ^
[09:56] <Joel_re> dont seal?
[09:57] <eroomde> so the inside of the payload can equalise in rpessure with the outside
[09:57] <eroomde> and so give you valid measurements
[09:57] <Joel_re> that means things inside would be -60deg as well ?
[09:57] <eroomde> no
[09:58] <eroomde> there are 3 modes of heat transfer
[09:58] <daveake> You only need a small hole or gap for pressure to equalise; far too small for temperature to do that
[09:58] <eroomde> conduction, convection, and radiation
[09:58] <eroomde> in saying that things inside would be -60, you are making the assumption that there is only one mechnaism - total transfer to the air fluid, and that that transfer is perfect
[09:58] <eroomde> both of those assumptions are wrong
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[09:59] <eroomde> the air is so thin that the rate of conduction is not particualry great
[09:59] <eroomde> if you just have one small hole, and mostly trapped air inside, the air inside will itself heat up
[10:00] <eroomde> and if you have, say, a foil-lined payload case, you'll reflect so radiated heat back at the electronics
[10:00] <eroomde> thus, you'll be fine
[10:00] <eroomde> just keep the pressure-equalisation hole small, (1mm?) and at the bottom
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[10:05] <Joel_re> ok
[10:05] <Joel_re> got it, thanks for the tip
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[10:20] <George__> morning all!
[10:21] <mfa298> morning George__
[10:21] <George__> totally new to this idea
[10:21] <George__> is it possible to use a gps tracker over a radio system?
[10:22] <mfa298> it is, that's what most people do.
[10:22] <mfa298> in the UK that's generally using the 434MHz ISM band
[10:23] <George__> could you recommend a gps tracker?
[10:23] <mfa298> ublox
[10:24] <mfa298> best place to buy ublox modules and ISM transmitter modules is http://ava.upuaut.net/store/
[10:25] <George__> :)
[10:26] <George__> cheers
[10:26] <mfa298> you'll also want some sort of control system.
[10:26] <George__> how do you mean?
[10:26] <mfa298> where are you based ?
[10:26] <George__> Dorset/Hampshire
[10:27] <mfa298> there's a few of us around that area - one or two down in Bournemouth and there's a small collection of us in Southampton (myself included)
[10:28] <George__> I am currently in Southampton
[10:28] <George__> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_64&product_id=90
[10:28] <George__> something like this and a receiver?
[10:29] <George__> such as this? http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=97
[10:29] <cm13g09> George__: May be worth talking to craag as well
[10:29] <cm13g09> Myself, craag, mfa298, mattbrejza are all So'ton based ;)
[10:30] <George__> ah awesome, a small little community then!
[10:30] <cm13g09> yeah
[10:30] <cm13g09> the first link you pasted looks good
[10:30] <craag> Hi George__
[10:30] <cm13g09> the second one is probably unnecessary - you'll want some kind of chip antenna....
[10:31] <cm13g09> (or wire ant)
[10:31] <cm13g09> (at least, that's typical)
[10:31] <craag> Erm not those!
[10:31] <craag> To get started, you probably want one of these: http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60
[10:31] <cm13g09> craag: not those to what?
[10:31] <craag> the gps chip and antenna
[10:32] <George__> how are they controlled as such?
[10:32] <craag> George__: They connect to a microcontroller (such as pic or arduino) over serial
[10:32] <craag> The gps spits out it's position every second by default
[10:32] <George__> so receiver on the roof of the ca
[10:32] <George__> car
[10:32] <George__> cabled into a laptop?
[10:33] <craag> Yes, are you a radio ham by any chance?
[10:33] <George__> no?
[10:33] <George__> haha
[10:33] <craag> Ok no worries
[10:33] <George__> totally new in most respects to this
[10:33] <craag> So you have an antenna on the roof of the car (I use a magmount)
[10:33] <craag> And then you cable that into a receiver that gives you the audio tones of the RTTY data
[10:34] <craag> We then have a program called dl-fldigi that decodes that into the position, telemetry, etc, and uploads it to spacenear.us/tracker
[10:36] <craag> Have you had a look around the ukhas.org.uk wiki?
[10:38] <George__> yeah I have had a brief look around, just had a few questions :0
[10:38] <George__> :)*
[10:38] <George__> are people on here most of the time to talk too as I have to dash
[10:38] <craag> yes, people are always here :)
[10:38] <daveake> some re here 24/7, if not more
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[10:44] <George__> my friend and I were looking at using the Rasbery Pi has anyone done this?
[10:44] <George__> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_60&product_id=95
[10:44] <eroomde> sigh
[10:45] <George__> haha
[10:45] Action: daveake hides
[10:45] <eroomde> i don't think you've had a thorough enough read of the wiki if you don't know if anyone has flown the pi
[10:45] <mfa298> unless you need features the pi has (Camera) something like an arduino is *much* better
[10:46] <daveake> Arduino is cheaper, more reliable, lower power (so less weight for batteries)
[10:46] <LeoBodnar> Pi with a camera would be a good idea
[10:46] <LeoBodnar> Arduino is a good PIC
[10:46] <daveake> Yes, camera changes the balance
[10:46] <daveake> Pi + camera is cheaper/lighter/more flexible than a gopro
[10:46] <George__> we were thinking camera, would be nice to 'see' where it got too
[10:46] <mfa298> even then if you fly a pi it's probably worth having another tracker on board in case the pi fails.
[10:46] <daveake> ^ +1
[10:46] <mfa298> George__: are you at the Uni ?
[10:47] <daveake> I did that for my first 4 (iirc) Pi flights
[10:47] <George__> Yeah, I go to the Maritime College here :0
[10:47] <George__> :)
[10:47] <LeoBodnar> so basically fly your backup tracker without Pi first
[10:47] <daveake> That said, I've never had a Pi not keep sending telemetry during flight
[10:48] <mfa298> George__: if that's part of Soton Uni (or possibly even Solent Uni) have a look at the Southampton Uni Space Flight Society.
[10:48] <Laurenceb_> does Pi have watchdog timer?
[10:48] <George__> yeah, we are part of Solent
[10:48] <George__> ill have a look!
[10:48] <mfa298> Laurenceb_: I believe there is one, but that might not help if the SD card falls out.
[10:48] <craag> George__: http://susf.co.uk/
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> ok
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> well its still useful
[10:49] <daveake> Laurenceb_, Yes, it does
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> nothing can save you from hardware failure
[10:50] <craag> George__: We do tracker workshops most wednesday evenings at the moment, you'd be welcome to come along.
[10:50] <eroomde> redundant hardware
[10:50] <eroomde> redundancy is easy to do badly though
[10:50] <George__> is that at Soton?
[10:50] <daveake> Well, depends what failure. Only one I've had on Pi was a loose SD card, and that stopped the photo taking but didn't stop the telemetry
[10:50] <mfa298> my current experience of Pi's failing is SD card issues, power issues or wifi failing. I'm not sure the watchdog would help in any of those cases. (and none of these are flying Pi's either)
[10:50] <craag> George__: yes
[10:50] <George__> would be awesome if I could
[10:51] <eroomde> the general advice will be a v strong recommendation to build a very simple tracker from an 8-bit microcontroller
[10:51] <eroomde> it's good advice
[10:51] <eroomde> you can learn a huge amount by doing it, it'll be very reliable, and you can make then run easily for a day from an AA battery
[10:51] <eroomde> and longer if you put some work in
[10:52] <eroomde> then you can add in the pi later for more ninja experiments
[10:53] <mfa298> and if you do use a Pi do something interesting with it - not just sending back telemetry from a python script with gps * ntx2 sharing the UART.
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[10:53] <daveake> Someone should code that in awk :)
[10:54] <cm13g09> daveake: ok - challenge accepted :P
[10:54] <daveake> haha
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[10:54] <cm13g09> (I'll write an awk script to convert NMEA to telemetry if you REALLY want me to :P)
[10:54] <Laurenceb_> awk: at least its faster than matlab
[10:54] <eroomde> i think pegasus 1 was all bash
[10:54] <eroomde> on a gumstix
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> it's not fai since awk is too easy for that
[10:55] <daveake> Anytime I have an idea, if I want to do it I keep it to myself; if I don't I mention it here then someone else volunteers :)
[10:55] <cm13g09> am I allowed to say at this point that my day job tends to involve copious quantities of sed/awk/grep
[10:55] <Laurenceb_> we could fly a simulink based hab
[10:55] <daveake> You have my commiserations
[10:56] <eroomde> i have an awk script that turned a csv from something or other into a kml file
[10:56] <Laurenceb_> /troll
[10:56] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: i have a friend
[10:56] <eroomde> he worked on the airborne wind stuff
[10:56] <eroomde> he's a really fine engineer
[10:56] <cm13g09> daveake: lol - it also involves python
[10:57] <eroomde> loves signal processing, machine learning, and is very fluent in C and haskell, enjoys the beauty of well crafted software and linear algebra proofs and stuff
[10:57] <daveake> not so bad then cm13g09 :)
[10:57] <eroomde> anyway he did really beautiful simulation code and then wrote all his control stuff on arms in C
[10:57] <eroomde> then they got bought and he had to work on the control stuff of the parent company
[10:57] <eroomde> they were flying these NI bricks running simulink
[10:57] <eroomde> i think it nearly killed him
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[10:58] <Laurenceb_> heh
[10:58] <eroomde> he left
[10:58] <Laurenceb_> been there myself :D
[10:58] <Laurenceb_> right time to get some work done
[10:58] <Laurenceb_> bbl
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[10:59] <mfa298> work, on a weekday, during office hours... What is the world coming to :p
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[10:59] <daveake> Laurenceb_ + work ? Never saw that coming :p
[11:00] <eroomde> between 9-5 i do my job
[11:00] <eroomde> after 5 I do my work
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[11:04] <fsphil> so true
[11:09] <LeoBodnar> cue random Lebowski quote
[11:10] <eroomde> Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!
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[11:23] Action: cm13g09 continues beating django
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[11:47] <eroomde> i have an application where a raspberry pi might be useful
[11:47] <eroomde> (gasp!)
[11:47] <LazyLeopard> ;)
[11:48] <eroomde> predicated upon there being a decent way of getting composite video into it - such as with a usb capture dongle (presuming there's no more direct way)
[11:48] <mfa298> run away quickly
[11:48] <eroomde> does anyone know if such a thing exists and is supported decently by the kernel compiled for arm?
[11:49] <mfa298> I think you need to choose your dongle carefully - although that might be more of a linux thing
[11:49] <eroomde> this is what i'm supoosing
[11:49] <mfa298> I tried a couple of things on the Pi a while ago and they didn't work - but I'm not sure they're that well supported in linux generally.
[11:50] <craag> ANything v4l2 compatible should be fine
[11:51] <eroomde> ta
[11:51] <mfa298> one was an old Hauppauge USB Analogue TV thing and one was one of the record your vhs to dvd type jobbies.
[11:51] <fsphil> usb bandwidth issues may hurt you
[11:52] <mfa298> does it have to be composite in - could you use the pi cam or usb webcam instead ?
[11:53] <eroomde> no
[11:53] <eroomde> it has to be composite in
[11:54] <daveake> http://bite-in.com/?p=9 might be interesting
[11:54] <fsphil> I'm doing something similar soon, so I hope it works
[11:54] <eroomde> it seems like there are lots of driver problems
[11:54] <eroomde> looking at various fora
[11:54] <fsphil> I'd like to be able to use the Pi's h264 hardware encoder with a composite input
[11:54] <eroomde> for the pi
[11:54] <eroomde> fsphil: me too
[11:54] <mfa298> eroomde: I was assuming that probably was the case but always worth asking the silly questions.
[11:55] <daveake> also http://easycap.blogspot.com/2013/03/raspberry-pi-and-easycap-devices.html
[11:56] <daveake> USB (speed/issues) will probably be the limiting factor
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[11:56] <fsphil> typical
[11:57] <fsphil> nice video encoding platform and no way to get the data into it fast enough
[11:57] <DL7AD> morning
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[11:57] <mfa298> I might need to try the things I've got again and see if they're supported now - It was over a year ago I tried last.
[11:57] <eroomde> it looks like some progress has been made in the last year
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[12:57] <LeoBodnar> ping Upu http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/GPSclock.jpg
[13:00] <craag> Nice LeoBodnar, what are the output frequencies on that?
[13:01] <LeoBodnar> 20kHz to 200MHz
[13:01] <LeoBodnar> 10MHz is default when delivered
[13:02] <craag> Awesome, how much are you selling the boards for?
[13:03] <LeoBodnar> It's going into the smaller box pictured here http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/Boxxes.jpg
[13:03] <LeoBodnar> and it will be between £100 and £150 with the box
[13:04] <craag> Ok.. I know a few people who've been after uncommon frequency references.
[13:04] <LeoBodnar> i can probably do a bare board as well on request
[13:05] <LeoBodnar> I have two prototypes so all being well i can start shipping by end of March
[13:05] <craag> ok, I'll mention it to them, cheers!
[13:05] <LeoBodnar> welcome!
[13:06] <LeoBodnar> output is 3v3 CMOS but I can fit output filters if they want clipped sinewave or lower level
[13:07] <eroomde> phase jitter?
[13:07] <eroomde> performance
[13:07] <craag> Yeah they can probably manage that bit. It's getting a custom freq locked to the gps that they've been struggling with.
[13:07] <LeoBodnar> ~300 fs
[13:07] <LeoBodnar> *expected, not tested yet though
[13:07] <eroomde> sure
[13:08] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: wait wut
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> let me muddle through USB bits first
[13:08] <Laurenceb__> i thought you were using the "LOL" boards?
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> I am
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> they are already in
[13:08] <Laurenceb__> so whats this new thing?!
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> this is a sideproject
[13:08] <Laurenceb__> you work too hard :P
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> a bastard child
[13:08] <eroomde> what's the massive electrolytic doing?
[13:09] <Laurenceb__> OHHHH
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> it's supercap for impatient lab dwellers
[13:09] <Laurenceb__> its GPS
[13:09] <Laurenceb__> i see now
[13:09] <Laurenceb__> very nicely done
[13:09] <fsphil> battery backup for gps?
[13:09] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[13:09] <Laurenceb__> whats the central header on the left side?
[13:09] <eroomde> oh yeah, you mentioned like 2 days ago if anyone had used supercaps for gps
[13:09] <Laurenceb__> oh USB
[13:10] <Laurenceb__> doh
[13:10] <eroomde> that's some fast pcb manufacture
[13:10] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[13:10] <Laurenceb__> i remember you were ordering parts just the other day
[13:10] <LeoBodnar> what header? it's the pogo pad area
[13:10] <Laurenceb__> im still waiting for parts from 2008 for work projects
[13:10] <eroomde> i only do 24hr pcb=pool in emergencies :)
[13:10] <daveake> Needs more LEDs :p
[13:11] <Laurenceb__> so it fits in the Alu hammond enclosure?
[13:11] <Laurenceb__> nice work
[13:11] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> did you mean 6 square pads?
[13:12] <Laurenceb__> no - the thing that is obviously USB A :P
[13:12] <Laurenceb__> pads are for the PIC?
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> USB B :D
[13:12] <LeoBodnar> yeah for this http://www.tag-connect.com/Materials/TC2030_NL_connector.jpg
[13:12] <Laurenceb__> ah tag connect, of course
[13:13] <Laurenceb__> i should use that on work stuff
[13:13] <Laurenceb__> rather than 20 pin 0.1" JTAG :P
[13:13] <LeoBodnar> haha
[13:13] <LeoBodnar> 20 pin JTAG is a good workout
[13:14] <Laurenceb__> bbl
[13:15] <Joel_re> /win 26
[13:15] <Joel_re> fak, ignor
[13:18] <eroomde> i like the little cortex 10-pin jtag
[13:25] <LeoBodnar> 0.05" pitch one?
[13:26] <LeoBodnar> i am trying to find shrouded version of it as pins are quite gentle
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[13:28] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: yes exactly
[13:29] <eroomde> i have the exact samtec part for the shrouded version with the polarised tab
[13:29] <eroomde> but i can't find a uk stockist
[13:29] <eroomde> digikey have it though
[13:31] <eroomde> it's this part
[13:31] <eroomde> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/FTSH-105-01-L-DV-K/FTSH-105-01-L-DV-K-ND/1875039
[13:31] <eroomde> (iirc)
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[13:32] <george__> can anyone recommend a cheap radio receiver?
[13:32] <mfa298> the rtl-sdr dongles are good for testing.
[13:32] <eroomde> funcube dongle
[13:33] <mfa298> there's a decent list of other options on the wiki
[13:33] <eroomde> i suspect 'please please read the wiki' might be a thing
[13:33] <eroomde> until you read the wiki
[13:33] <eroomde> we don't suggest it for our own amusement
[13:33] <mfa298> a lot depends on your definition of cheap.
[13:34] <george__> <£200
[13:34] <george__> but ill come back when i've read more :)
[13:34] <mattbrejza> you can get a icom r10 for <£200 from ebay
[13:34] <eroomde> you could pick up a yaesu ft-790 (2nd hand) for that
[13:34] <nats`> radio for what ?
[13:34] <nats`> ft790R
[13:34] <nats`> under 150euros it's easy to find and a good receiver
[13:35] <mattbrejza> icom r10 is handheld and as a wider frequency range, not sure on relative performance to the 790, but people here who use the r10 seem happy with it
[13:35] <mfa298> Funcube would be a decent investment for the <£200 form of cheap if you're happy using something that plugs into the laptop - so not as useful for DF.
[13:36] <eroomde> for hab use and £200, i'd definitely go with a 790
[13:36] <daveake> IMO it's much better to have a "real" radio when chasing, and you should be able to pick up a suitable scanner (Yupiteru MVT7200 or ICOM IC-R10 or AOR AR8000) for £120 or less
[13:36] <george__> ok will have a look :) cheers peeps
[13:36] <eroomde> the addition of other constraints might change that, but for those two, the 790 would be my clear winner
[13:36] <daveake> And yes, a 790 will be more sensitive than any of those scanners, though a little less portable
[13:37] <daveake> 790 is a great radio
[13:37] <eroomde> it comes with a strap
[13:37] <eroomde> and it fits on a dash
[13:37] <eroomde> so it's good :)
[13:37] <daveake> and lasts forever on C cells
[13:37] <eroomde> yeah
[13:38] <daveake> Unlike an 817 which stops working half way through the first sentence you receive from your landed payload having spent the last 30 mins climbing a hill :/
[13:38] <mfa298> george__: there's potentially a variety of bits of equipment around soton so there's a chance you might be able to use something and see what it's like before buying.
[13:38] <george__> that would be cool, maybe see what it's like first.
[13:38] <Joel_re> what powersupply regulators do you guys use
[13:38] <Joel_re> if any
[13:38] <daveake> for what?
[13:38] <eroomde> atx for my pc
[13:39] <Joel_re> haha
[13:39] <george__> I think we are going to run with the rPi as we have one and want to use a camera too
[13:39] <Joel_re> for the hab tracker
[13:39] <daveake> what voltage / current ?
[13:39] <Joel_re> if its rPi or just some uC
[13:39] <eroomde> boost or buck?
[13:39] <Joel_re> 3.3V 300mA?
[13:39] <Joel_re> buck
[13:40] <eroomde> which is to say, coverting down or converting up from your battery?
[13:40] <Joel_re> Im planning to use 4 AA batteries
[13:40] <mfa298> george__: if it's a model B Pi you probably don't want to fly that.
[13:40] <Joel_re> so buck
[13:40] <daveake> For a regular flight, 4 AAAs and a *good* LDO work just fine
[13:40] <eroomde> Joel_re: i often use little potted traco smps bricks
[13:40] <mfa298> I think daveake flew a Model-B Pi once and it overheated.
[13:40] <eroomde> they save a bunch of layout
[13:40] <daveake> For floaters you need to use a boost reg really for long run times and low weight
[13:41] <daveake> Yes, first one used a linear reg and a model B and more AAs than technically necessary :/
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[13:41] <Joel_re> what are my chances for tracking a HAB without the HAB amp
[13:41] <daveake> These days for the Pi I used a cheap buck converter module from ebay - just over a £1
[13:42] <daveake> 80% efficient into 3.3V, which is OK though not brilliant
[13:42] <Joel_re> just the SDR dongle and a 70cms antenna
[13:43] <daveake> I've just been reminded :p that the model B Pi needs its own power station; you really really really need to fly model As instead
[13:43] <daveake> 1/3rd of the power
[13:43] <daveake> Use a B for development put an A in the payload
[13:44] <eroomde> Joel_re: depends on range
[13:44] <eroomde> it won't be very good
[13:44] <eroomde> fine for testing though
[13:44] <george__> I believe we have the A
[13:44] <daveake> good
[13:44] <Joel_re> hrm
[13:44] <Joel_re> I just need to get my hands on the HAB Amp then
[13:45] <daveake> Well worth the money
[13:46] <x-f> Joel_re, for ~50 km it will be ok in my experience, but HABamp helps a lot
[13:46] <Joel_re> x-f: so >50km LOS would be a limit?
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[13:47] <Joel_re> >~50
[13:47] <eroomde> depends on local interference
[13:47] <eroomde> that's as much a problem as sensitivity
[13:47] <Joel_re> hmm
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[13:47] <x-f> Joel_re, that's how far i tracked, it might have worked in greater distance anyway
[13:47] <eroomde> get a hab-amp
[13:48] <Joel_re> I want to, without paying a heavy customs duty
[13:48] <eroomde> trying to reason your way into not getting on for the rtl-sdr dongle is a bit like trying to understand the nutritional content of poo just to save having to buy fresh ingredients
[13:48] <UpuWork> I can mark it up as a gift Joel_re
[13:49] <Joel_re> ok UpuWork, I'll give it a try then
[13:50] <gonzo_> even a bare rtl dongle at the launch site would be better than noting, to check that the tracker payload is working. (there have been a few flights that reported 0.0000,0.0000 for their duration!)
[13:51] <gonzo_> but +1 on the usefulness of the habamp
[13:51] <eroomde> people who launch and chase without a radio deserve to lose their payload
[13:51] <SpeedEvil> Semaphore is communication too!
[13:51] <craag> or launch without a gps lock...
[13:52] <craag> "Oh it'll get one once it's up"
[13:52] <eroomde> who has ever said that!?
[13:52] <craag> A year or two ago there was one, can't remember who
[13:52] <eroomde> what a f*cking moron
[13:52] <fsphil> that's basically "well I didn't want that payload back anyway"
[13:53] <eroomde> that's unbelievable
[13:53] <craag> I think they did have a phone runnign a location reporting app as a backup
[13:53] <craag> Although I don't remember the outcome
[13:54] <gonzo_> I was lamost there. Ot was taking so long to get lock and the balloons were getting damaged by the winds, I was going to let it go anyway
[13:55] <gonzo_> did we ever find out who BARC,0,0,0 was ??
[13:56] <Joel_re> haha
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[14:16] <fsphil> disappointed people? :)
[14:20] <ibanezmatt13_> Just thought about putting a tracker PCB design guide on the Wiki, but then realised how much more helpful this would be in video form
[14:21] <ibanezmatt13_> A Youtube link on the Wiki will suffice
[14:22] <nats`> oO
[14:22] <nats`> there is nothing worse than a how to in video
[14:22] <ibanezmatt13_> Well... I personally would learn better with a video, I'd struggle with only having screenshots of Eagle
[14:23] <ibanezmatt13_> But if it's something others would be interested in, I'm happy to do it :)
[14:24] <ibanezmatt13_> bbl, maths
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[14:27] <Oddstr13> sure, make a video of it, but ¤%#& make a text version of it too.
[14:28] <Oddstr13> i /HATE/ code tutorials on youtube, when all i wana do is copypaste some code and get hacking on it
[14:30] <craag> for code, yeah video is often wrong.
[14:31] <craag> But for someone who hasn't used eagle before, finding the button that someone's trying to describe in text can be frustrating
[14:31] <eroomde> also copying and pasting code is bad
[14:31] <eroomde> m'kay?
[14:34] <nats`> Mr garison ?!
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[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> laboratory move complete
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> woo.
[15:51] <SpeedEvil> Today, I have reheated one pizza.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> Well - I got it out of the freezer too.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> Actually - I'm probbaly going to switch my electricity supplier for a 50 quid saving too - so not a totally wasted day.
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[15:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> gonzo_, Perhaps one of these http://www.cafepress.co.uk/+barc_mylar_balloon,649056197
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[16:09] <gonzo_> "Helium and ribbon not included". They didn't say that the gps lock was also not included
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[16:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> :-)
[16:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Doubt they got round to fitting the GPS !
[16:16] <sam___> Hi, I'm about to order an NTX2B transmitter from HAB Supplies but have a quick question, if anyone's able to help :-)? Is there a preferred frequency to use out of the 12 possible that it lists (434.125 - 434.525), or am I fine to use any? (Provided I know which)
[16:17] <eroomde> use any
[16:17] <eroomde> if you already have a radio receiver, maybe listen to see if there's any interference locally on one of them
[16:17] <eroomde> but don't worry about it if you haven't
[16:18] <sam___> Perfect, cheers
[16:18] <fsphil> you'd only really have to worry if you where launching along with someone else
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[16:38] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ak37Pf0tOs - how to pressure test a pressure guage.
[16:41] <Lunar_LanderU> lol
[16:41] <SpeedEvil> 'how to make a 100 ton press cheaply'
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[17:11] <LeoBodnar> hot start with supercap is nice. 2sec to output signal lock
[17:12] <LeoBodnar> i wonder how long supercap can keep Ublox going
[17:12] <Laurenceb__> nice
[17:14] <LeoBodnar> so what happens when it gets shipped over to the US and restarted there? 30 sec TTFF or coma?
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[18:11] <Laurenceb__> lol theres a salad fingers 10
[18:11] <Laurenceb__> and i just watched it
[18:11] <Laurenceb__> bad idea
[18:12] <LeoBodnar> oh is a new episode out?
[18:14] <Laurenceb__> yes
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[18:27] <LeoBodnar> 03:28 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26431323
[18:28] <ibanezmatt13> haha
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[18:37] <kd2eat> ibanezmatt13: Saw your note about a tracker design youtube. I'd certainly welcome such a thing. I'm going to be doing my own soon enough. Avoiding common mistakes is always handy!
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> kd2eat: That's good to hear! I will do a series on Youtube no problem if it helps
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[18:44] <jededu> How does this look second attempt I know there may well be a few mistakes be warned http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/Pi_Tracker3.pdf
[18:45] <eroomde> in your bias-tee network, get the inductor right up onto the gps track
[18:47] <jededu> ok :)
[18:47] <eroomde> but it looks good
[18:47] <eroomde> it'll work
[18:47] <eroomde> also generally, there's no reason to not make tracks as thick as you can
[18:47] <eroomde> (within reason)
[18:48] <eroomde> i.e., unless you're super space constrained (you're not), they might as well be as thick as the width of the pad they're going into
[18:50] <jededu> Ok may as well get it right thanks
[18:53] <aadamson> some will suggest no 90 degree angles on traces too, due to thinning them at that point and potential board flex breakage, I usually try to make everything have a 45 degree bend (2 of them) where I need a 90
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[20:43] <samhat> howdy, could anyone recommend a good place to launch balloons in south gloucestershire?
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[20:47] <SpeedEvil> big or small ones
[20:48] <samhat> the payload's about 900 grams
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> If your payload and balloon never exceeds 2m in total size at any point, you don't need permission.
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> But - unless your balloon will burst at about 5km or so - yours will.
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> There are no sites with permission as I understnad it.
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> There are people with permission to launch at specific sites.
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> So you need to coordinate with them - or apply for your own launch permit from the CAA
[20:51] <samhat> Yup, we were planning on doing the latter
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[20:51] <samhat> Sadly we only have a few days before the "28 days notice" runs out (hoping to launch early April)
[20:52] <samhat> We're at Bristol, but no doubt no launches will be permitted there
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> What 28 days notice?
[20:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> To apply for NOTAM
[20:53] <samhat> The CAA require 28 days notice of the launch event, according to the form they sent me
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> http://predict.habhub.org/ - brightwalton seems to be the closest.
[20:54] <SpeedEvil> I have no idea if this is actually an active site with permission though
[20:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not sure Dave is there now!
[20:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> He moved West
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> Are permissions strictly 'you must be there' - or 'you must have the authorisation of the authorised person' ?
[20:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> No idea
[20:55] <SpeedEvil> (neglecting the whole 'trusting randoms off the internet' thing that arises.
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[20:56] <daveake> yeah I moved :)
[20:57] <daveake> 28 days seems to be a theoretical limit
[20:57] <fsphil> 28 days, DM time
[20:57] <daveake> I've had them done inside 2.8 days (for an existing site) and others have certainly had them done inside a week for a new site
[20:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Is that like ISH time then ?
[20:58] <fsphil> less predictable
[20:58] <daveake> yup
[20:58] <daveake> sometimes early
[20:58] <daveake> usually because he's off for a few days
[20:59] <daveake> I've got some flights next week / weekend and with rather less than 28 days notice
[20:59] <samhat> Okay, I won't worry too much about that then. Finding a site has proved quite tricky
[21:00] <daveake> If you're well away from airports it should go through
[21:00] <daveake> if you're close the resulting restrictions may make it unlikely to be able to launch
[21:02] <samhat> Right, so I just need to find a common somewhere basically
[21:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> How about asking Stratodean ?
[21:03] <samhat> Yeah they launched from the forest of dean, that could work
[21:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> They launch from Coleford
[21:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.stratodean.co.uk/
[21:14] <samhat> I gather they tend to head east when you launch them, so it'll probably end up in Norfolk right?
[21:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not always http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2013_Flights/SD3_20131201/index.php?ind=1 or http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2013_Flights/SDEAN-20130518/index.php?ind=1
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[21:17] <samhat> Wow, okay, well that refutes that then
[21:18] <fsphil> usually it does
[21:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> They do sometimes however http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2013_Flights/STRATODEAN/ depends when you choose to fly!
[21:18] <fsphil> but I've had predictions going every direction at some point
[21:18] <jededu> I have a problem in eagle I am getting a width error down one side of the board there is a thin red solid line like 1px I cant select it or move it I have no idea how it appeared its the only error on DRC any ideas ?
[21:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> Look at the Jet stream to give you a clue
[21:19] <fsphil> errors all down one side? sounds like Marvin
[21:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> Must be his Diodes playing up again
[21:21] <samhat> Okay thanks for the help everyone. Might be on again at some point with some more questions.
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[21:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> Your welcome
[21:23] <jededu> http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/width.png
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> and I would like to present you the 2014 version of the High Altitude Laboratory: http://s.gullipics.com/image/s/2/5/5yv4hq-k5ioor-yc45/IMG0467.jpeg
[21:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> So at what altitude does this sit ?
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> about 90 m ASL
[21:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> You call that High ?
[21:33] <Lunar_Lander> well it's for making balloon systems
[21:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> ;-)
[21:34] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:35] <Upu> jededu what is the width of that track ?
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> hi Anthony
[21:37] <jededu> Its not a track that image is at max zoom I dont know what it is
[21:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> If you save exit and the restart is it still there ?
[21:39] <jededu> Yes http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/width2.png
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[21:42] <Upu> its the top ground copper pour that isn't name GND ?
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> xD http://www.boxxtech.com/products/workstations/single-socket/3dboxx-4920-xtreme-gpu
[21:42] <Upu> hi Lunar
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> hope all is good
[21:43] <jededu> Ill check
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[21:45] <mjholmes> good evening all
[21:45] <fsphil> evening
[21:45] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[21:46] <mjholmes> i'm plannin to launch my first pico tomorrow. I've filed a flight doc, could somebody approve it for me when you get chance please?
[21:47] <Upu> sure whats the id please ?
[21:48] <mjholmes> annoyingly i've left the doc reference at work - the flight is called MJH-1
[21:48] <Upu> have you tested it appears on Spacenear.us ?
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[21:49] <mjholmes> no, not yet, it was a bit of a last minute decision to launch tomorrow
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[21:50] <Upu> test it pls
[21:50] <Upu> just make sure it appears on the map
[21:50] <Upu> as its not really fair on the habhub guys to get the to sort out a fault at no notice
[21:51] <Babs_> hey upu - can i ask a coding question?
[21:51] <mjholmes> sure
[21:51] <Upu> haha
[21:52] <Upu> you're going to ask me a coding question ?
[21:52] <Upu> sure go for it
[21:52] <Babs_> Thanks - code here http://pastie.org/8884804
[21:52] <Babs_> basically much of the wiki code
[21:52] <Upu> oooooo
[21:52] <Upu> go on
[21:52] <Babs_> don't get excited
[21:52] <Babs_> much of the wiki code, although i've also turned off the other sentences
[21:53] <Babs_> and generated the check digits myself (which are slightly different than the ones on the wiki, but apparently appear to do the same job)
[21:53] <Babs_> lines 102-120 basically try and poll the module for a string
[21:53] <Upu> ok
[21:53] <Babs_> but the string comes back as follows
[21:54] <Babs_> hold on, it won't paste, let me get a picture
[21:54] <Upu> has it got some NMEA in with it ?
[21:55] <jededu> upu I have checked it is GND
[21:56] <Upu> ok so press rats nest
[21:57] <jededu> Still there what a pain :)
[21:58] <Upu> something up with it
[21:58] <Upu> delete it and type poly gnd and do it again
[21:58] <Babs_> upu - http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/12977399175/
[21:58] <Upu> yup
[21:59] <Babs_> it looks like it is printing out in the wrong baud, but can't be as obviously i have outputs coming from the ublox indicating the various strings have been turned off ok, and they are corrupted
[21:59] <Babs_> *arent corrupted
[22:00] <Upu> https://github.com/HABduino/HABduino/blob/master/Software/habduino/habduino.ino#L721-L772
[22:00] <Upu> try that
[22:01] <Upu> afk dog walk
[22:02] <jededu> Tried polygnd no change Ive added somthing somehow
[22:03] <Babs_> thanks upu
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[22:07] <aadamson> Babs_, you may or may not know this, but the reliablity of softserial is always suspect. it's trying to diddle a pin for baud and if the processor is doing other things (trying to service hardware serial interrupts for example), you may or may not get what you expect from the soft serial port
[22:08] <Babs_> ok, thanks aadamson. that may be the case. i will sub in upu's code and if that works with the softserial, then its my code. cheers
[22:09] <aadamson> what some do and it entirely depends on what you are trying to do, is they split the hardware port.... you want to see what the ublox is doing so you only use RX, but you use TX to send to the PC... that's impossible if you are sending and receiving from the blox, but is an option if you need it
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[22:15] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, did you get my message this afternoon?
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[22:18] <Upu> Babs_ I would do some code that returns some debug data after its done rather than whilst its doing
[22:18] <Upu> to home or work Lunar_Lander ?
[22:18] <Lunar_Lander> home
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[22:19] <Upu> sorry I rebooted earlier and missed it
[22:20] <mjholmes> data from MJH-1 parses ok and displays correctly on spacenear
[22:20] <Upu> super
[22:20] <Upu> what time ?
[22:20] <Upu> oh do an annoucement I should get that quite low
[22:21] <Upu> battery seems a little low ?
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[22:22] <mjholmes> 10am ish. I sent an email to the list as 15:10. Google hasnt delivered it yet for some reason.
[22:22] <Upu> oh
[22:22] <Upu> 1 sec
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[22:22] <mjholmes> Seems to be when it goes via v6
[22:22] <Upu> nah moderated list
[22:22] <mjholmes> batt is just a random one i've hooked up
[22:22] <mjholmes> ah ok
[22:22] <Upu> I didn't get the usual mail to advise me there was one in the queue
[22:22] <Upu> ok released now
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[22:23] <mjholmes> ta
[22:23] <fsphil> what's the prediction?
[22:24] <Upu> I ran one today actually
[22:24] <Upu> its up towards Finland I think
[22:24] <mjholmes> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/19397_trj001.gif
[22:24] Action: fsphil puts away radio
[22:24] <mjholmes> if it floats
[22:24] <mjholmes> otherwise a short trip into the north sea
[22:24] <Upu> whats weight ?
[22:24] <mjholmes> 21g
[22:26] <Upu> should float that
[22:26] <mjholmes> fingers crossed!
[22:27] <Upu> oh nice tracker
[22:27] <Upu> NTX2B based ?
[22:27] <Upu> ah just read
[22:27] <mjholmes> this one is using up and old NTX2
[22:28] <mjholmes> drift could be interesting...
[22:28] <Upu> is that conformal coating ?
[22:28] <mjholmes> yeah
[22:28] <Upu> I should get some of that
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[22:28] <mjholmes> dont spray it indoors ;)
[22:29] <Upu> lol
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[22:29] <Babs_> ok, thanks upu
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> where's tracker pic?
[22:31] <arko> mjholmes: going for the arctic circle?
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> Upu: this >> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1765265
[22:31] <Upu> http://imgur.com/KyYqqFB
[22:31] <mjholmes> This is what i'm using http://onecall.farnell.com/electrolube/apl400h/coating-conformal-acrylic/dp/3026838
[22:32] <jededu> Could I send this board off to Hackvana with the error or does it get rejected
[22:32] <Upu> top tip use guitar string
[22:32] <Upu> for the antenna
[22:32] <Upu> way better than the cat 5 cable
[22:32] <Upu> cheers Leo
[22:32] <mjholmes> Thanks, useful to know. The CAT5 is a pita for bending out of shape
[22:32] <Upu> I keep forgetting to get some
[22:32] <arko> is there a difference from piano wire?
[22:32] <Upu> has to be a specific one
[22:32] <arko> or are they the same material?
[22:32] <arko> oh?
[22:32] <Upu> some don't solder
[22:32] <mjholmes> arko: i doubt it'll make it that far before th ebattery gives up!
[22:33] <arko> good luck!
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> jededu: just email your board file and i'll have a look
[22:33] <Upu> sorry leo remind me which guitar string it is
[22:33] <Upu> I have 10 packs of the stuff at the office
[22:33] <arko> some strings have coating to prevent oxidation
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> piano wire is impossible to solder
[22:33] <arko> oh
[22:33] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> this guitar string is nickel plated
[22:33] <arko> ohh cool
[22:34] <daveake> Mine is 13 gauge
[22:34] <arko> i'll have to look for that, i usually buy nylon coated strings for my guitars :P
[22:34] <daveake> whatever that means
[22:35] <daveake> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ERNIE-BALL-CUSTOM-GAUGE-SINGLE-STRINGS-ELEC-ACOUS-13-/350410462675?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160
[22:35] <Upu> Ernie Ball 13 Gauge Electric Single String
[22:35] <daveake> that's the one
[22:35] <Upu> dang too slow
[22:35] <daveake> haha
[22:35] <Upu> yeah its ace
[22:35] <daveake> Good Old Ernie
[22:35] <Upu> straight and solders
[22:35] <daveake> flies the fastest habs in the west
[22:35] <LeoBodnar> http://projecthab.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/strings.jpg
[22:36] <Upu> hard to bent it by accident as well
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[22:36] <LeoBodnar> oh, projecthab? what is this about? lol
[22:36] <Upu> Steve's site
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> ah
[22:36] <Upu> G0TDJ
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> i have gone through lots of strings until finding this one
[22:36] <LeoBodnar> the rest were crap
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> but probably sounded nicer
[22:37] <Upu> lol
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> 12 or 13 gauge is the ticket
[22:37] <mjholmes> i might pick up some of that for future boards
[22:37] <Upu> well Jim in the States who I sent that pico too to fly back was chuffed to bits as those were the strings he uses on his guitar
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[22:39] <arko> ohh Ernie Ball
[22:39] <arko> cool
[22:39] <mjholmes> is there any more news on the freq agile NTX2Bs?
[22:39] <Upu> yeah
[22:39] <Upu> a few weeks
[22:39] <Upu> Steve Randall has confirmed the programmer pogo pin thing I made works
[22:39] <Upu> sadly it doesnt' work for me so I need to check my programmer
[22:40] <arko> is 13 gauge bendable enough where you can fold the ends to prevent pokey bits from stabbing you?
[22:40] <arko> without it snaping that is
[22:40] <Upu> yeah
[22:40] <arko> ncie
[22:40] <arko> nice even
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> yeah, i make a little "eye" and fill it with solder
[22:41] <mjholmes> excellent, i look forward to those and the smaller form factor version - MTX2 was it?
[22:41] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_1667.JPG
[22:41] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_1668.JPG
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> as the second worst thing after stabbing in the eye with an open end is to have rigging caught in this end of antenna hook eye
[22:42] <Upu> yeah they've gone quiet on me on the NTX2
[22:42] <Upu> MTX2
[22:42] <arko> upu nice work
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[22:42] <Upu> yeah I roll it round the end of some fine pliers and then solder it
[22:43] <mjholmes> that's a shame - i could chop my board down a little bit more with an mtx2 on the back
[22:45] <Upu> yeah its promising
[22:46] <Upu> right I'm off night all
[22:46] <mjholmes> thanks for sorting the doc. night
[22:48] <arko> nightt
[22:49] <LeoBodnar> night
[22:51] <Lunar_Lander> night Upu !
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[23:24] <Babs_> upu - solved it - i wasn't printing out in hex
[23:24] <Babs_> easy
[23:24] <Babs_> well, once i had been looking at it for an hour...
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[00:00] --- Fri Mar 7 2014