highaltitude.log.20140304

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[03:59] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
[04:01] <heathkid> anyone heard from KF7FER?
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[06:17] <Joel_re> hey guys
[06:18] <Joel_re> Im wondering if its ok to clamp down the 'D' elements using metal clamps
[06:18] <Joel_re> http://www.nr6ca.org/70cmyagi.html
[06:19] <Joel_re> would it affect the signal
[06:19] <Joel_re> ?
[06:19] <arko> like as a mount?
[06:19] <arko> then trying to pick up a signal?
[06:19] <Joel_re> arko: no no
[06:20] <Joel_re> well to hold down the rods on wood
[06:20] <Joel_re> is it OK to clamp them with metal clamps
[06:20] <Joel_re> or should it be insulated
[06:20] <arko> i wouldnt
[06:20] <arko> i used hot glue and it worked fine
[06:20] <arko> it looks ghetto
[06:20] <arko> but it works
[06:21] <Joel_re> hrm so just glue them to the wood?
[06:21] <arko> i built this exact one
[06:21] <Joel_re> ok
[06:21] <Joel_re> would be a bit weak no?
[06:21] <arko> yeah, i drilled the holes just exactly the diameter of the rod and hammered them in
[06:21] <arko> then used hot glue
[06:21] <arko> i should have used epoxy
[06:21] <arko> sure it would
[06:22] <arko> but i dont really throw it at things :P
[06:22] <Joel_re> ok
[06:22] <arko> and it has survive the trunk of my car
[06:22] <arko> i wouldn't use metal clips, but then again im not sure how much it would actually effect it
[06:22] <arko> as long as you arent shorting it to other elements and the clips are small enough
[06:23] <Joel_re> yep they would be tiny
[06:23] <Joel_re> the center wooden rod, is just an inch thick
[06:23] <Joel_re> cant really drill holes from the side
[06:24] <arko> im not an rf expert, but i dont imagine it would cause too many issues
[06:24] <Joel_re> to pass the rods through
[06:24] <arko> really?
[06:24] <Joel_re> ok
[06:24] <arko> ohh yeah in that case sure
[06:24] <arko> i see what you mean now
[06:24] <Joel_re> :)
[06:24] <arko> i doubt that would cause any sort of a noticible difference
[06:25] <arko> small little c-clamps hammered in to keep the element in place
[06:25] <arko> this design works great btw
[06:25] <Joel_re> yeah
[06:25] <Joel_re> ok, cant wait to test
[06:25] <Joel_re> need to find some RG58 as well
[06:25] <arko> had great luck with it, used it to track my last hab
[06:26] <arko> http://www.flickr.com/photos/arkorobotics/11128598934/in/set-72157637213955175
[06:26] <arko> super ghetto
[06:27] <arko> took like 10minutes to build though
[06:27] <Joel_re> neat
[06:27] <Joel_re> yeah its simple
[06:27] <Joel_re> ah the cable tie idea is nice
[06:27] <arko> yeah, was having issues with it tugging
[06:38] <Joel_re> hrm, I had fldigi running fine
[06:38] <Joel_re> now I lost some settings and Im not setting it up right
[06:38] <Joel_re> I have it in USB mode, 50 baud
[06:38] <Joel_re> etc
[06:39] <Joel_re> I see a pattern in the output
[06:39] <Joel_re> which means Im missing out something simple
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[07:16] <Joel_re> any advice on how I can measure the baud rate being recieved
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[08:39] <cuddykid> hi all
[08:39] <cuddykid> have some surprising good news
[08:40] <cuddykid> camera that was stolen has been recovered by police! they went to the address behind the IP and bingo
[08:40] <ibanezmatt13> awesome!
[08:40] <craag> Fantastic news cuddykid !
[08:40] <number10> thats good news
[08:41] <cuddykid> currently in a german airport flying back to UK, going to speak to police later for a debrief, but i was notified that they have it :)
[08:41] <UpuWork> awesome
[08:41] <UpuWork> congrats cuddykid
[08:41] <cuddykid> im very surprised!
[08:41] <mfa298> excellent news
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[08:49] <fsphil> oh sweet!
[08:49] <cm13g09> excellent cuddykid
[08:49] <fsphil> that was a nice bit of detective work on your part
[08:50] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
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[08:50] <fsphil> cuddykid: does it still have the video?
[08:51] <cuddykid> not sure
[08:51] <cuddykid> only info i have at the moment is that it has been recovered
[08:51] <cuddykid> will update you all later once ive spoke to police
[08:52] <cuddykid> didnt think the ISP would give out address for a camera
[08:53] <cuddykid> and then for the police to persue it aswell, pleasantly surprised all around!
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[08:56] <gonzo__> was this the cams from a raped payload?? or am i mixing it up?
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[08:58] <cm13g09> gonzo__: I would think so
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[09:21] <LeoBodnar> morning *
[09:21] <fsphil> morn!
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[09:51] <Joel_re> hey, can someone suggest a way I could measure the baudrate of a audio recording I have
[09:51] <Joel_re> its the rtty signal from my tracker
[09:52] <Joel_re> I've been unable to get dl-fldigi to decode it, for some reason
[09:52] <Joel_re> http://hastebin.com/sadixiqumo.avrasm
[09:52] <Joel_re> I see a pattern but not clear whats wrong
[09:52] <eroomde> avrasm!?
[09:53] <Joel_re> thats hastebin being stupid :)
[09:53] <eroomde> haver you ever played with matlab/octave/python?
[09:53] <Joel_re> python, yes
[09:54] <mfa298> Joel_re: if you've got a logic analyser/scope and can connect it to the the tx pin from the uC that would let you see what's happening - you should then be able to measure the timing and work out the settings
[09:55] <eroomde> oh yes, that's much much easier than what i was about to suggest
[09:55] <eroomde> i was going to suggest using python and scipy to make a spectrogram
[09:57] <mfa298> audacity and looking at the audio waveform could help as well - one of the view modes shows the two tones fairly clearly.
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[10:26] <Joel_re> mfa298: so I have about 1 second of data in audacity
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[10:27] <Joel_re> is there a simpler way than counting them manually?
[10:28] <mfa298> if you've got the waveform showing the two tones (fft mode possibly) then you should be able to see the spacing between each tone and work out the baud rate.
[10:28] <fsphil> it's often easier measuring 10 bits and dividing the result
[10:29] <eroomde> new toy has just arrived
[10:29] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/lpMLdX6.jpg
[10:29] <eroomde> has been my ambition to buy one of these since i was 3
[10:29] <mfa298> eroomde: nice toy :D
[10:30] <LeoBodnar> you've just ruined another dream
[10:31] <eroomde> there's a long list of them yet to get through
[10:34] <fsphil> we've a few at work. they don't let me on them
[10:36] <eroomde> i need to do the course
[10:36] <number10> you have to go on a course here to use one
[10:36] <eroomde> 3 guys already did it
[10:36] <eroomde> uas remaining 3 need to do it at some point in the future
[10:36] <eroomde> annoyingly thought it's a whole week long
[10:36] <number10> reason for going on course -- have some fun!
[10:36] <fsphil> course is basically "look where you're going, try not to kill people"
[10:36] <eroomde> i'm not sure i want to spend a whole week learning how to drive a forklift
[10:37] <eroomde> i sort of wonder what you do on the remaining 4 of the 5 days
[10:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqd4aPs5WTA
[10:44] <eroomde> inevitably, seen it
[10:44] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Its done the rounds
[10:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I see there is now an English dubbed version as well!
[10:47] <fsphil> they're dangerous things. even though our drivers are pretty good, I still keep a good distance
[10:48] <daveake> Who says the German's don't have a sense of humour? :)
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[11:25] <Babs_____> Tracker gimbal http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/12916023654/
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[11:30] <SpeedEvil> Nice! That seems rock steady.
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> (for wobbly rocks)
[11:30] <SpeedEvil> Some tuning yet, methinks.
[11:31] <SpeedEvil> Clearly getting there!
[11:32] <Babs_____> This one is really for just the backup tracker when it lands , to make sure it points upwards when it is stopped rolling about - tuning the camera one will be the challenge I think
[11:32] <SpeedEvil> Err - surely passive is good enough for that?
[11:33] <Joel_re> hey, Im unable to figure out the baud rate, could anyone have a look http://judepereira.com/nocache/capture_1sec.wav
[11:33] <Joel_re> that is about 1 second of the recording
[11:33] <Babs_____> The last one I put up had three trackers , but was out of gsm range and came down in a valley and I was sans yagi , so I figured I would make the spot doubly reliable as I would have been up the spout if it had rollerd upside down
[11:33] <Babs_____> No, I need the camera to be specific pointy in one direction
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> I mean passive for spot
[11:34] <SpeedEvil> I guess if you're doing one gimbal...
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> Are you aiming at just steadyish video, or actual long frames?
[11:35] <Babs_____> The spot is passive
[11:35] <SpeedEvil> Ah - right
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:36] <Babs_____> It's more being Able to track one specific spot on the ground that is key
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> great tehn.
[11:36] <Babs_____> There are 8 tiny bearings 8mm with 4mm bore in it - very funky
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> have you run power to it - or did you not bother
[11:40] <Babs_____> Batteries are on the underside , jus taped that at the moment but they help make it bottom heavy and hence self righting
[11:40] <Babs_____> The camera needs a power supply which I am channeling through slip rings to enable it to freely rotate
[11:40] <Babs_____> Three aaas give the spot about a weeks worth of juice
[11:40] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:41] <SpeedEvil> I have wondered in the past about de-greasing bearings, and then lubricating with Galinstan
[11:41] <LeoBodnar> you need to start working on skycrane Babs_____
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> To avoid the slip ring issue
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> you just have a fixed (insulated) shaft poking through the bearing conducting ground, connected to another bearing conducting V+
[11:42] <Babs_____> :-) leobodnar
[11:43] <Babs_____> You need more than one control wire though , you have to power three brushless motors which is 9 wires alone
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[11:44] <SpeedEvil> When I looked at this _aaaages_ ago - I had some LVDS serialiser/deserialiser chips in the mix
[11:45] <SpeedEvil> It was actually getting IIRC VGA data rate video out
[11:45] <cm13g09> fsphil: ping
[11:47] <Babs_____> Leobodnar - I am thinking of putting. Tracker next to the camera in the cag at the bottom which will mean it will need to be teeny tiny - we may need to chat at some stage! My current eagle draft is a bit large...
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[11:57] <fsphil> pongish cm13g09
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[11:59] <cm13g09> fsphil: ish :P
[12:00] <DL7AD> fsphil: pingish
[12:00] <DL7AD> fsphil: got my mail?
[12:01] <fsphil> yep, arrived. readish, will test it laterish :)
[12:01] <DL7AD> ^^
[12:02] <DL7AD> The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog
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[12:13] <LeoBodnar> cool Bat`O
[12:13] <LeoBodnar> cool Babs_____
[12:17] Nick change: DL7AD -> DL7AD___________
[12:19] Nick change: DL7AD___________ -> DL7AD
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[13:22] <eroomde> Joel_re: what's generating the signal?
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[13:45] <K5KXF> Anyone thought about using PACTOR modem?
[13:46] <eroomde> no
[13:46] <eroomde> also the wikipedia page for pactor is terrible
[13:49] <LeoBodnar> is it still alive?
[13:51] <fsphil> woo, proprietary
[13:52] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, are your small solar panels, the .55v type in my units 1x3 inches approx 2.5 x 7.5 cm?
[13:52] <aadamson> is there a source for them cheap?
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[13:59] <K5KXF> WINMOR is non propritary and uses the same system just slower
[14:00] <fsphil> what benefit?
[14:00] <K5KXF> over the sea positioning
[14:00] <K5KXF> for your balloons
[14:00] <K5KXF> links into APRS
[14:01] <fsphil> there is HF APRS already
[14:01] <fsphil> 300 baud
[14:01] <K5KXF> works on 70cm
[14:03] <fsphil> what transmitter hardware?
[14:03] <fsphil> and who would receive it? :)
[14:04] <K5KXF> I'm lookin into that as we speak
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[14:04] <K5KXF> your little TX module can TX
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[14:05] <fsphil> ntx2 is FSK-only
[14:05] <K5KXF> ahhh ok
[14:05] <fsphil> ISM devices are either FSK or ASK
[14:06] <fsphil> I don't believe any do PSK or the QPSK you'd need
[14:08] <K5KXF> how about a QRP ssb tx?
[14:08] <K5KXF> ok bad idea never mind :)
[14:09] <eroomde> that's what it is already, really
[14:10] <K5KXF> what's with ISM you guys? Shouldn't everyone get a ham lisense? It's so easy just saying
[14:11] <mfa298> K5KXF: a lot of us are, but UK license doesn't allow airborne use
[14:11] <craag> K5KXF: We can't use ham radio airborne here
[14:11] <LazyLeopard> The UK amateur licence doesn't permit airborne use
[14:11] <fsphil> what they said
[14:11] <LazyLeopard> Heh
[14:11] <eroomde> K5KXF: better to read me before talking
[14:11] <eroomde> probably
[14:11] <K5KXF> that's a huge problem
[14:11] <eroomde> more*
[14:12] <craag> Nope it isn't, cos we use ISM :)
[14:12] <K5KXF> roger wilco
[14:12] Action: SpeedEvil wonders about a SIGINT payload.
[14:12] <eroomde> wiki.ukhas.org.uk
[14:12] <eroomde> heh, how 2010 of me
[14:12] <eroomde> ukhas.org.uk
[14:12] <K5KXF> SPOT is pretty cool but to heavy
[14:12] <eroomde> it has the how and why of more-or-less everything we do
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> 6 or so 433MHz dipoles, picking up all the RF thermometers and shizzle.
[14:13] <mfa298> who needs lots of power, 10mW does a good job for telemetry data. >1W is just overkill
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> 1W or more is pretty much needed for video.
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> But for telemetry - not so much.
[14:13] <eroomde> yeah, the link budget for 10mW uhf is fine
[14:13] <eroomde> like, it looses line of sight over the horizon at 40km altitude before you loose link margin
[14:14] <eroomde> for a few hundred bits per second
[14:14] <SpeedEvil> The predictor means that the need for high-data-rate is much, much less, as the paylaods can be recovered - if launched with care >>80% of the time
[14:14] <K5KXF> I now understand exactly
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[14:15] <mfa298> by using a channel allowing 100% duty cycle we get more position reports than aprs would be happy with as well.
[14:15] <Oddstr13> SpeedEvil: thermometers you say? how would those sound when recorded with say USB?
[14:16] <eroomde> i literally cannot parse that question
[14:16] <eroomde> oh!
[14:16] <eroomde> upper side band?
[14:17] <Oddstr13> ya
[14:17] <K5KXF> it does not work for me because loosing contact over the ocean is unexceptiable thqts all
[14:17] <malgar> hello I'm testing the ntx2b with arduino and receiving it through sdr dongle. It works but the two frequencies are going higher and higher
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[14:17] <malgar> the waterfall shows two lines tilted to the right
[14:18] <eroomde> K5KXF: sure, i'd go with simple HF digital modes for that
[14:18] <eroomde> like dominoex
[14:18] <craag> K5KXF: People have used HF with varying amounts of success.
[14:18] <eroomde> malgar: are either the ntx2 or the radio-dongle recently turned on?
[14:18] <craag> It seems you cannot skimp on the antenna, most people who've tried to use shortened antennas have been disappointed.
[14:19] <malgar> eroomde: yes.. about 2 minutes
[14:19] <K5KXF> yes I was trying to find a more reliable solution
[14:19] <eroomde> K5KXF: i thought you were someone else earlier (who comes on here a lot and opines but never listens). sorry for the slightly cutting remark
[14:19] <malgar> now they seem more stable
[14:19] <craag> K5KXF: Next best is probably a rockblock iridium modem or similar.
[14:19] <eroomde> my memory for callsigns is not good enough
[14:20] <K5KXF> eroomde np at all
[14:20] <fsphil> if you want to be reliable you'll need satellite
[14:20] <K5KXF> agreed it is the best solution
[14:21] <K5KXF> SPOT seems to be the lightest solution
[14:21] <eroomde> yes
[14:21] <eroomde> it's popular
[14:21] <K5KXF> http://hackaday.com/2011/10/01/hacking-spot-personal-satellite-tracker-to-pass-more-information/
[14:22] <eroomde> one of ours members had a go at hacking it so he could insert arbitrary messages through its serial port
[14:22] <K5KXF> nice hack here for better data as well
[14:23] <K5KXF> fsphil I got Gary to help us out with the R Pi software for NBTV
[14:23] <eroomde> K5KXF: did you make it through that gps vid?
[14:23] <K5KXF> arrrg yes
[14:23] <K5KXF> lol
[14:23] <K5KXF> long
[14:24] <K5KXF> but informative ty
[14:24] <eroomde> how do you think i felt!
[14:24] <K5KXF> haha
[14:24] <eroomde> i think this year, if i give a talk, it'll be 20 mins and about getting a rocket to 30km and will be mostly videos and pictures
[14:25] <eroomde> assuming the conf happens after BALLs
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[14:25] <K5KXF> well I'm glad you did it now you don't have to do that one again
[14:25] <eroomde> i think I will be at balls, as will CUSF, and possibly some well-known others
[14:26] <K5KXF> that will wonderful to meet you guys in person
[14:26] <K5KXF> I suggest you go with someone that's been there before
[14:26] <K5KXF> it can be dangerous
[14:27] <K5KXF> There's a lot of info on the BALLS site of course
[14:28] <K5KXF> If you need to hook up with someone to get out there I can prob arrange that if your in California
[14:29] <fsphil> balls. hehehe
[14:29] <K5KXF> yean bunch of crazy rocket guys
[14:29] <eroomde> K5KXF: i am. i am fine for advice
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[14:30] <K5KXF> great
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[14:31] <StudentsDeNayer> Hi i got a question about my transmitter and receiver, are the icom 910 and the rfm22b compatible ?
[14:31] <fsphil> yes, with conditions
[14:32] <fsphil> the rfm22b's native packet mode won't be
[14:32] <fsphil> but the rfm22b can be made to do rtty
[14:32] <fsphil> which will work fine
[14:32] <StudentsDeNayer> Oki so only with the constant carrier thing ? and a low frequency rate signal ?
[14:32] <fsphil> yes
[14:32] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:rfm22b
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[14:34] <K5KXF> I'll be traveling from Texas
[14:34] <aadamson> http://www.gtc-usa.com/satphone/Globalstar-STX3-Simplex-Modem-378.html - you could use one of these
[14:34] <aadamson> and create your own interface
[14:35] <aadamson> it's a replacement to the stx2 I believe
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[14:39] <StudentsDeNayer> oki fsphill thanks i think this will do
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[15:02] <daveake> g
[15:02] <daveake> er
[15:02] <daveake> ignore me
[15:03] <cm13g09> Helios-Reaper: welcome back
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[15:08] <malgar> hello I'm trying to transmit RTTY using this demo http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[15:08] <malgar> every setting is identical but the decoding is garbage
[15:09] <malgar> but the garbage is repeating always in the same way
[15:09] <eroomde> have you hit 'Rv' in fldigi?
[15:09] <eroomde> button on the bottom right
[15:09] <eroomde> of the window
[15:09] <malgar> |YTtd|YQb9|YTtd,IL2@Eb9|YTtd|YQb9|YTtd,IL2@Eb9|YTtd|YQb9|YTtd,IL2@Eb9|YTtd|YQb9|YTtd,IL2@Eb9|YTtd|YQb9|
[15:10] <malgar> lets' check
[15:10] <malgar> :D
[15:10] <malgar> working!!!
[15:10] <eroomde> you're welcome
[15:10] <malgar> what is Rv? :P
[15:10] <eroomde> the cause of 99% of my support requests
[15:10] <eroomde> it switches from LSB to USB
[15:11] <eroomde> or vice-versa
[15:11] <malgar> :D
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[15:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[15:11] <malgar> well.. i get this output RTTY TEST BEACON RTTY TEST BEACON*CF08
[15:11] <malgar> Isn't CF08 working?
[15:12] <eroomde> what output were you expecting?
[15:12] <malgar> RTTY TEST BEACON RTTY TEST BEACON
[15:13] <daveake> Try looking at the source code
[15:13] <eroomde> read the text under 'part 2' carefully
[15:13] <eroomde> there is bold writing on that page telling you to read the code helpfully
[15:13] <eroomde> but also read the text carefully
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[15:14] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[15:14] <fsphil> having to use RV usually means something is backwards
[15:14] <fsphil> either the tones being transmitted, or the radio/fldigi are in LSB mode
[15:23] <LeoBodnar> ham convention for RTTY I think is LSB?
[15:23] <fsphil> all flights on 70cm tend to be USB
[15:24] <fsphil> for voice the system seems to be LSB <10mhz
[15:24] <fsphil> USB above
[15:24] <fsphil> I guess rtty just follows that
[15:24] <eroomde> i think conventions differ between hf and {U,V..}HF
[15:24] <fsphil> the MFSK modes tend to use USB regardless
[15:24] <fsphil> domex and olivia all do usb even <10mhz
[15:25] <eroomde> i might be thinking of ssb voice
[15:25] <fsphil> s/all do/tend to be/
[15:26] <mfa298> SSB voice the convention in ham changes at 10MHz (LSB under and USB above)
[15:27] <mfa298> I had a feeling rtty on all HF tended to be LSB by convention although I could be wrong there. Similarly I think some other digital modes might be USB on all bands by convention.
[15:27] <mfa298> but then with hams you never know you'll probably find several going against the convention.
[15:28] <fsphil> similar to the CPU endian problem
[15:28] <fsphil> in the end it doesn't really matter
[15:28] <fsphil> as long as they're happy
[15:28] Action: DL1SGP1 is
[15:28] <DL1SGP1> :)
[15:28] <DL1SGP1> good day folks
[15:28] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[15:28] <fsphil> I will be happy at home time
[15:29] <fsphil> I could hack the clock to go a bit quicker
[15:29] <fsphil> mmm
[15:30] <cm13g09> fsphil: me too :P
[15:30] <cm13g09> I have a noisy server on the desk!
[15:32] <DL1SGP> a desktop server :)
[15:32] <cm13g09> DL1SGP: no... it's distinctly rack-shaped
[15:33] <cm13g09> just has ended up on my desk!
[15:33] <DL1SGP> but it is on the top of your desk! :)
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[15:34] <cm13g09> now with considerably less noise!
[15:34] <DL1SGP> fans power supply wires clipped?
[15:34] <cm13g09> DL1SGP: no.... BIOS update applied
[15:34] <DL1SGP> ah :)
[15:35] <cm13g09> which prevents the RAID controller reporting 127C as the temperature....
[15:35] <DL1SGP> hehe
[15:35] <cm13g09> which led to the BIOS whacking the fans to full!
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[15:38] <mfa298> just hope the raid controller never actually gets to 127C
[15:39] <cm13g09> lol
[15:41] <eroomde> if it gets to 128C then suddenly ice starts to form
[15:41] <cm13g09> eroomde: sure does in this case :P
[15:42] <cm13g09> 128 = -127 as far as I can see :P
[15:43] <eroomde> that was my point
[15:44] <zyp> no, 128 = -128
[15:45] <eroomde> that was a test
[15:45] <cm13g09> sorry yeah
[15:45] <zyp> I once had a hard drive report a temperature of 250C
[15:46] <zyp> it had been sitting in a car in -25C for a couple of hours before I brought it inside and turned it on
[15:47] <cm13g09> ah yeah
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[16:30] <Lunar_LanderU> talk to you later!
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[16:32] <eroomde> i can't wait
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[16:38] <g0pai_ian> The 10MHz convention re SSB came about because when you double the frequency you invert the sidebands. It was a cost thing when heterodyne exciters were popular and SSB was in it's infancy.
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[16:39] <g0pai_ian> The military never bothered and used USB everywhere.
[16:39] <eroomde> good fact
[16:40] <g0pai_ian> RTTY: tune a signal in USB that is copying fine. Tune up 3kHz (nominal) and the signal will appear but the tones will be inverted, so need to hit the reverse in your demodulating program.
[16:40] <g0pai_ian> PSK31, same thing with the tuning, but no reverse needed as it's a phase thing and not frequency. It will just copy fine business.
[16:41] <eroomde> i think we've got that covered
[16:41] <g0pai_ian> I think you have, but obviously someone wasn't on the ball.
[16:42] <eroomde> the notion of sidebands is new to some
[16:42] <fsphil> I only realised what sidebands where when I saw an AM signal on a waterfall
[16:42] <g0pai_ian> That's well accepted Ed, and why I decided to paint a slightly broader picture.
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[17:31] <kd2eat> So, for those using the MAX-7 GPS chip on 2-layer boards, are you putting some copper on the back side to act as a ground plane? I see the Pecan4 design is not, though I belive the hardware implementation guide is calling for it. I'm having a heluva time with mine not seeing the satellites. It just won't lock on reliably. I'm beginning to believe I just have a really bad impedence on
[17:31] <kd2eat> the antenna. The chip can't see satellites consistenly.
[17:33] <ibanezmatt13> http://www.johansontechnology.com/technical-notes/integrated-passives-rf-comp/jti-chip-antenna-mounting-and-tuning-techniques.html#.UxYOVfl_spm
[17:33] <craag> There should be no copper under the chip antenna
[17:33] <ibanezmatt13> According to that datasheet, there should be no copper
[17:33] <ibanezmatt13> ^
[17:34] <craag> And the groundplane should be at least 1mm back from the feed pad
[17:34] <kd2eat> How about under the MAX-7 itself?
[17:34] <craag> Groundplane under the max-7 is a good idea
[17:34] <craag> ALthough probably not an absolute necessity
[17:34] <ibanezmatt13> See here kd2eat: http://gerblook.org/pcb/5QZnqPvUf3wvsoyzDHwkDA#front
[17:35] <craag> ibanezmatt13's design is per datasheet
[17:36] <craag> The chip antenna is more of a tuned monopole than anything more fancy
[17:37] <kd2eat> OK, so you're not putting any large copper area under the MAX7 to act as ground plane, you're just feeding ground in to the pins, it looks like.
[17:37] <craag> kd2eat: Err ibanezmatt13's has a very well stitched ground plane under the MAX7
[17:37] <kd2eat> Oh wait, sorry, you have copper completely under the chip.
[17:37] <eroomde> i normally have copper on both layers beneath the max-7
[17:37] <kd2eat> Misread the picture.
[17:38] <eroomde> and the chip antenna strictly as-per datahseet recommendations
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[17:39] <ibanezmatt13> Basically yeah, it's common for the ground plane for the board to run on both layers right under the chip, but do make sure you leave the 1mm clearance between the ground layer and the chip. The many vias as craag said are just to stitch the two pours together, though I tend to be over cautious :)
[17:40] <ibanezmatt13> chip antenna, I mean by that later part :P
[17:40] <kd2eat> OK. I'll quadruple-check the PP4 eagle files, but I think he's missing copper under the MAX7 chip. That may be part of my problem.
[17:42] <kd2eat> Thanks guys. Ya, I've got the PP4 working fine for the radio parts, but the GPS is just totally unreliable. I've even installed an Active antenna and it's not much better. It locks intermittently but not faithfully enough for me to be willing to fly a mission with it.
[17:42] <craag> I *really* don't like that chip antenna placement http://kt5tk.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/pecanpico4_annotated.png?w=922
[17:42] <craag> eroomde: Would you agree? ^^
[17:42] <craag> kd2eat: Is this what you're building? ^^
[17:43] <kd2eat> Yes, he was kind enough to put his designs up, and I cloned it.
[17:43] <kd2eat> I had to remove the SMA connector. GPS wouldn't EVER lock with it on there.
[17:43] <craag> There's far too much going on around that antenna in my opinion.
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[17:43] <kd2eat> Apparently in the UBLOX's opinion, too. lol
[17:44] <craag> You might have to use an external antenna to get that to work
[17:44] <kd2eat> I've got the serial output from the ublox. the GPGSV messages just flap all over between 0, 1, or many satellites, but it won't hold still enough to lock.
[17:45] <kd2eat> I'm using an external. It's not particularly better.
[17:45] <craag> with the chip antenna removed?
[17:45] <kd2eat> Yes
[17:45] <kd2eat> The UBLOX debugs show the external antenna in INIT, and then OK state.. but the GPGSV lines still just flap all over about what it's seeing.
[17:45] <craag> Hmm, are you connecting it on the little socket pad there?
[17:46] <craag> I notice the traces going to it have no ground underneath them, so may be mismatching it I wonder?
[17:46] <kd2eat> Ya, I'm beginning to think serious impedence mismatch.
[17:47] <kd2eat> Yes, I installed the socket pad, the resistor, inductor and cap suggested in the datasheet. Using an external antenna.
[17:47] <craag> Right.. that antenna design there is not great, certainly not for the chip, and not ideal for the external.
[17:47] <kd2eat> Plus a little 0 ohm to jump over from the JTI pad over toward the jack.
[17:48] <eroomde> yo
[17:48] <eroomde> sorry
[17:48] <eroomde> let me scrollback craag
[17:48] <craag> :)
[17:48] <kd2eat> afk a sec. Diet Coke pressure relief break required.
[17:50] <eroomde> golly
[17:50] <eroomde> yes
[17:50] <eroomde> that's not going to work
[17:50] <eroomde> you want nothing conductive in the near-field of the chip antenna
[17:50] <eroomde> and he's chosen to respect that by putting a radio transmitter in the near-field of the gps antenna
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[17:53] Nick change: Gadget-Mac_ -> Gadget-Mac
[17:53] Possible future nick collision: Gadget-Mac
[17:53] <Upu> uh are we still having this conversation
[17:53] <Upu> I pointed out that design was far from ideal a week ago
[17:53] Nick change: lbm_ -> lbm
[17:53] Possible future nick collision: lbm
[17:53] <kd2eat> sigh. OK. Well, I think I'm going to punt this design. I like the design ibanezmatt shared, as well as things like the pAVA 9 design. I'll probably just build my own board.
[17:54] <Upu> if you're going to use the chip antenna it needs to be out there away from anything conductive
[17:54] <kd2eat> Upu, yes, I still am. lol. I'm TRYING to get this thing to work with an external antenna, and apparenty it's to far gone to even work that way.
[17:54] <Upu> that also means slapping a Pi under it
[17:54] <eroomde> kd2eat: what is your external-anetnna implementation?
[17:55] <eroomde> is it active?
[17:55] <eroomde> what kind of antenna is it?
[17:56] <kd2eat> active: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Taoglas/AP10F070039B/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujMAN%2fH8%252bi%2fOmrGY2ImNO%2f5nLsNPU1cY1e%2fYmGNtt7ZdA%3d%3d
[17:57] <eroomde> ok
[17:57] <eroomde> and how have you midified the circuit to accomodate it?
[17:57] <kd2eat> I was HOPING I could get it to work with this antenna, but I'm not having any joy down this route either.
[17:57] <eroomde> also i'd put that antenna on a metalic surface while you're testing, if possible
[17:58] <eroomde> modified*
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[17:59] <kd2eat> OK. It's mostly been on the dash of my car. Reading the datasheets, it's also apparently sensitive to temperature fluctuation. Going from office, to frozen car, to heater blasting may be a problem too.
[18:00] <kd2eat> We have a launch scheduled in 2 weeks with the campus club. I think I'm going to have to punt this design and use an Adafruit GPS on a Pi, or maybe just pump an Adafruit GPS on a breakout board into my PP4 board, just to get SOMETHING working. I'll design my own board for future launches.
[18:01] <nick_> eroomde: you (pl.) got a mention in the talk I went to last night
[18:01] <kd2eat> I've got an off the shelf tracker on order from Argent, but they're apparently hammered and backlogged at the moment.
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[18:04] <eroomde> kd2eat: but how have you modified the circuit to use the active antenna?
[18:04] <eroomde> you didn't answer
[18:04] <kd2eat> eroomde, the PP4 design mostly matches the Ublox docs for an active antenna. 10 ohm resistor, inductor, cap, etc. He listed a 1000pf cap, while the datasheet called for a 47pf. I tried both.
[18:04] <eroomde> nick_: was it about REL?
[18:05] <eroomde> fair enough
[18:05] <kd2eat> I believe I've got the active antenna implemented per datasheet specs.
[18:05] <kd2eat> The Ublox is reporting that it sees an active antenna, and it's "OK"
[18:05] <eroomde> what's not good is the ground return path from the external gps antenna connector
[18:06] <eroomde> it should go to the pads either side of rf-in
[18:06] <eroomde> directly
[18:06] <eroomde> on ppr it takes a circuitous route
[18:06] <eroomde> pp4*
[18:06] <eroomde> which happens to go via the ground connection for the 10mW 434mhz tx
[18:06] <nick_> yes
[18:06] <kd2eat> Heh. Yea, I showed it to an RF guy here at work, and he said the same thing.
[18:07] <eroomde> it just needs a redesign
[18:07] <eroomde> nick_: who gave it?
[18:07] <nick_> Alan Bond
[18:07] <eroomde> oh
[18:07] <eroomde> heard of him
[18:08] <nick_> It was interesting. But threatened to go into the thermodynamics a bit since it was for a physics society, then didn't :(
[18:08] <kd2eat> Yep, I mostly wanted confirmation that others are putting a good ground plane under the Max7 chip. There isn't one in the PP4, unless I'm misreading the eagle files.
[18:09] <eroomde> right bbl
[18:09] <kd2eat> Thanks :-)
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[18:12] <kd2eat> Upu: Sorry to be rehashing a bit, but at this point, I'm trying to make sure I understand what folks are doing to make it WORK, so when I design my own board, I don't copy forward the mistakes. heh
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[18:14] <Laurenceb> http://mushroom.nosox.org/b3ta/ceilinggchq.jpg
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[18:16] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:19] <LeoBodnar> I would like to see people making tracker hardware better rather than smaller
[18:20] <kd2eat> I shall try.
[18:21] <kd2eat> I'll begin by trying to make one that WORKS however. lol
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> It's not hard to get a tracker smaller than Leos. It is tedious, and depending on process - possibly expensive.
[18:23] <SpeedEvil> And of really questionable value
[18:23] <LeoBodnar> indeed
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[18:24] <SpeedEvil> However - trackers that run on a 20cm 'normal' balloon would be amusing.
[18:24] <LeoBodnar> The balloon itself won't go higher than perhaps 3-4km
[18:24] <myself> They stick trackers on smaller and smaller animals all the time, they just have a different model for what tracking means.
[18:24] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[18:25] <cuddykid> spoke with police earlier - they have retrieved all components of the payload that was stolen!
[18:25] <cuddykid> memory card is still there, though they can't check if footage is on it (no reason to believe it shouldn't be)
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[18:27] <SpeedEvil> oooh
[18:27] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:27] <myself> I need to follow my scrollback more closely! Stolen payload? Heh. Is there a summary written up somewhere, or an account soon to be posted?
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[18:28] <myself> on the one hand, I don't want to waste your time retyping the whole story. On the other hand, curious!
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[18:28] <cuddykid> the story from the thief was interesting: "walking dog, dog comes back with a bit of polystyrene, goes to investigate, all in bits, picks up, goes back home, goes on my site, means to get in touch with me, with christmas around the corner forgets to......." lol
[18:29] <LeoBodnar> i am almost weeping
[18:29] <LeoBodnar> poor sod
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[18:29] <cuddykid> myself: flight back in early december landed in a field near cambridge, contents were stolen - thief has been tracked down (via IP) after he started browsing my blog later that day
[18:30] <LeoBodnar> how far away from home did he walk the dog?
[18:30] <myself> hahah that's hilarious.
[18:30] <cuddykid> LeoBodnar: not sure
[18:30] <myself> So it has enough info on it that he can hit your site, but somehow he misses the contact-if-found notion? Righto.
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[18:32] <WB8ELK> cuddy...how did you track them down via IP address...is there a way to get more info than just a general location region?
[18:32] <cuddykid> yeah, exactly, he went on it twice aswell, and spacenear.us
[18:32] <LeoBodnar> I thought it was good 10 miles away from his IP address
[18:32] <cuddykid> WB8ELK: police had to make a request to ISP
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[18:32] <cuddykid> LeoBodnar: IP only gave the general northamptonshire region
[18:32] <cuddykid> which is where it landed
[18:33] <cuddykid> and given the search term that led to the hit, it was a giveaway
[18:33] <WB8ELK> is tgere a way i can track down the general IP area without a police request?
[18:34] <WB8ELK> I had a computer stolen and I was able to get the IP when it was reactivated by the thief
[18:34] <mfa298> kd2eat: when designing a new board a lot of people will post their designs on here and get advice - just plan on having enough time to rip up half the design after getting advice.
[18:34] <craag> WB8ELK: Places like: http://www.geoiptool.com/
[18:34] <cuddykid> WB8ELK: it's not 100% accurate but sites like who.is
[18:34] <cuddykid> yeah
[18:34] <craag> There's a fair few of them
[18:34] <craag> They can be wrong
[18:35] <cuddykid> yep
[18:35] <myself> If the computer is really stolen, make a real police report, and do it the real way. Don't pretend to be recovering stolen property and then ask for help with stalking someone. :P
[18:35] <mfa298> geo addressing can be very misleading. At one point google thought I was in ireland (IPv6) when I'm really southern england.
[18:36] <cuddykid> took about a month for police to make request to ISP and track whoever down
[18:36] <WB8ELK> Iobtained it when they deactivated my LogMeIn accct on the stolen computer...Logmein would not give me any info due to confidentiality
[18:37] <craag> Well I'm really glad it worked out in the end cuddykid !
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[18:37] <craag> Just a reminder to chase payloads more closely from now on.
[18:37] <mfa298> generally you need to talk tothe ISP to track an address to a real person and give them the address, date and time.
[18:38] <mfa298> Usually they'll only realease that information to the police or with a court order.
[18:38] <Willdude123> cuddykid, congrats on the payload
[18:39] <WB8ELK> Took me quite some tie to recreate my DominoEX tracker code since they had also stolen my backup drive. Neighbor kid on drugs broke into my house but I never was able to track down who he ha sold my computer to.
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[18:40] <WB8ELK> That was in 2007...I now backup everything on the net.
[18:40] <mfa298> lesson there is backups are only good if they're not going to disappear with what's being backed up (i.e. don't have it in the same place)
[18:40] <myself> The ISP won't be able to resolve a 7-year-gone IP address to a particular subscriber.
[18:40] <myself> Police report or no.
[18:42] <WB8ELK> The police were of no help...they did catch the neighbor kid however in the act of breaking into another house..
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[18:45] <WB8ELK> great sleuthing effort cuddy ...congrats on your payload recovery
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[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[19:04] <fsphil> howdy
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[19:34] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: 6 boards for the price of 1, why not? http://t.co/HRoa3RcikG #ukhas
[19:34] <fsphil> spam? :)
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[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> er, nope :)
[19:35] <fsphil> they look like little phones
[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> yeah they do, funky shape
[19:37] <fsphil> square pcbs are so boring. well done :)
[19:37] <ibanezmatt13> haha thanks :)
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[19:44] <LeoBodnar> lots of my PCBs look like funky little iPhones
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> rectangular
[19:45] <ibanezmatt13> :(
[19:45] <LeoBodnar> heh
[19:46] <ibanezmatt13> if it's rectangular it can still be awesome, just depends on what's on it and how it performs, so you're fine Leo :)
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> spindocting
[19:46] <LeoBodnar> most of them are boring too
[19:47] <LeoBodnar> is there an Eagle library of weird and enigmatic things you can put on empty PCB space?
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[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> That would be nice actually
[19:53] <ibanezmatt13> Or, you could just better your Eagle skills by having no empty space :P
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> sometimes it has to go into a specified enclosure
[19:54] <ibanezmatt13> ah, in that case yeah some funky drawings would be awesome
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> breadboard?
[19:54] <LeoBodnar> I wonder if I can route out the empty space and make it a weird spidery thing
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[19:56] <LeoBodnar> outlines of a croissant, knob of butter and knife maybe
[19:56] <ibanezmatt13> ooh nice. In fact, I now fancy a pancake
[19:57] <fsphil> rfid antenna
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> QR-code with rude jokes?
[19:58] <fsphil> qc-code containing a png of the qr-code
[19:58] <fsphil> c/r
[19:58] <mfa298> random quotes
[19:58] <fsphil> "return this payload or I'm calling the police"
[19:59] <fsphil> "(C)NSA Subject Tracking Department"
[20:00] <mfa298> think you can keep this payload: ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> When HP server hardware was still made in-house PCBs contained weird silkscreen artwork, some completely random pictures
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> a car
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> pinup girl
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> wads of dollars
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> or was it Compaq? long time ago
[20:02] <fsphil> some of the early macs and amigas has the machine designers signatures on the case
[20:03] <fsphil> was a nice touch
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> Dell was giggling over magazines at the time in his bedroom
[20:04] <LeoBodnar> now how's the daddy?
[20:05] <LeoBodnar> it would be ubergeeksy to put artwork on inner copper layers
[20:06] <mfa298> silkscreen artwork sounds like the sort of thing DEC would have done so Compaq would sound plausible (I know they merged / took over DEC or something along those lines)
[20:07] <mikestir> fsphil: amigas have B52 songs titles on their PCBs
[20:08] <craag> A multilayer board done by a few postgrads at the university gave mitch a good laugh
[20:08] <craag> Inner layers had, in copper, "THe cake is a lie"
[20:08] <craag> "I hope this works"
[20:08] <fsphil> hah
[20:09] <craag> and a few others
[20:09] <mfa298> lol
[20:09] Action: mfa298 wonders if the easter egg is still on the susu site.
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[20:16] <chrisstubbs> mmm easter eggs
[20:16] <fsphil> too soon
[20:18] <mfa298> 40 days or is it 40 days plus a week (and possibly a couple of days), I'm never quite sure when the 40 days of lent ends.
[20:18] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: amiga? 500?
[20:20] <LeoBodnar> Tesco sells instant lent kit
[20:22] <fsphil> someone at worked today asked me what I was giving up for lent. I said religion
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[20:25] <LeoBodnar> hah
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[20:29] <mikestir> Reb-SM3ULC: according to wiki it was the 500, 600 and 1200
[20:31] <Reb-SM3ULC> mikestir: have to check my 1200 some time :)
[20:31] <mikestir> yeah I definitely remember seeing it in the 500. I have a 1200 somewhere too
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[20:43] <g0pai_ian> historically, smart graphics have appeared on device silicon as well as circuit board layers. It appears to have been quite popular, from bored or playful designers.
[20:43] <Lunar_Lander> Today's Fish is Trout A La Creme. Enjoy your meal.
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[20:44] <x-f> guys, if the signal has a sinusoidal curve and changes between 10 and -10, what is its amplitude? 10 or 20?
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[20:44] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[20:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Physics
[20:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> the maximum extent of a vibration or oscillation, measured from the position of equilibrium.
[20:45] <Lunar_Lander> 20 is the peak-peak value
[20:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> So 10
[20:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> OR
[20:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Astronomy
[20:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> the angular distance of a celestial object from the true east or west point of the horizon at rising or setting.
[20:47] <x-f> it is physics
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> amplitude is a multiplier in front of the sin() in x(t) = A * sin(...t...)
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> so it's 1/2 of peak to peak in periodic signal
[20:48] <Babs_____> Peak to trough surely?
[20:49] <ibanezmatt13_> It's definitely peak to equilibrium line, I need to know it for my Physics exam :P
[20:49] <x-f> wikipedia says "peak-to-peak remains a common way of specifying amplitude"
[20:50] <Babs_____> In skateboarding :
[20:50] <Babs_____> The maximum air off the top of the half pipe
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> define "specify"
[20:50] <x-f> i have a RA exam tomorrow, looks like it's not gonna end well :]
[20:51] <mfa298> unless it's voltage in which case most people talk about Vrms rather than the peak value.
[20:51] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: RA?
[20:52] <x-f> radioamateur
[20:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> what Irms ?
[20:52] <g0pai_ian> Foundation, Intermediate or Advanced?
[20:53] <x-f> we have only two categories, i guess it's Foundation then
[20:53] <mikestir> reminds me of a question on a practice paper for the intermediate exam which asked "what is the most practical way of checking for harmonics and spurii". one of the options was spectrum analyser. the right answer was general coverage receiver
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> http://i.stack.imgur.com/YCNWi.png apart from "peak-to-peak amplitude is incorrect"
[20:53] <g0pai_ian> Foundation won't have been introduced to RMS I imagine.
[20:53] <mikestir> a receiver is not a practical way of checking for spurii
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> and "peak amplitude" is incorrect too lol
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> ignore that link
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> "amplitude" *is* peak
[20:54] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: aha, hope you do well :)
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> value from equilibrium level
[20:55] <mfa298> mikestir: I spotted that one as well. I *think* I can see where it's coming from but dont really agree with it.
[20:55] <g0pai_ian> General coverage receiver is the answer, because very few amateurs will have access to a spectrum analyser and even less so five years ago when the questions were thought about.
[20:56] <g0pai_ian> The frequency is known, so the third harmonic (biggest problem) will be easily found.
[20:56] <x-f> thank you for the explanations
[20:56] <mikestir> g0pai_ian: but it specifically asks for spurii
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> "most practical" is the key
[20:56] <mfa298> I think one of the other options on that question was absorbsion wavemeter which would at least give some idea of where there are emmisions
[20:56] <mikestir> and unless you are prepared to tune DC to light then an rx is not a practical solution
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[20:57] <g0pai_ian> In a room, use 2m on a hand held, tune another to freq X 3 and you will hear the third harmonic.
[20:57] <LeoBodnar> I'd go for SA even if it's fail
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[20:57] <g0pai_ian> Spurii infers that there is going to be a strong third harmonic. If it's at Foundation or Advanced, believe me the answer will not be a spectrum analyser.
[20:58] <mikestir> anyway the same question came up in my actual exam. SA and spurii had been dropped.
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> spurii are not harmonics by definition
[20:59] <mfa298> A transmitter can be checked for harmonics and spurious signals by using: A) a general coverage radio receiver B) a sensitive power meter C) an absorption wavemeter D) a frequency counter.
[21:00] <mfa298> so SA definetly isn't the answer there.
[21:00] <mikestir> that's obviously an interim version where they dropped spectrum analyser as an option. Now it just says harmonics only.
[21:00] <mfa298> Q32 in sample paper 1
[21:02] <mfa298> I think I went for absorption wavemeter but that was probably from having done the RAE rather than working slowly up through the levels.
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> indeed sometimes you need to think "what do they expect the right answer to be?"
[21:03] <LeoBodnar> rather than "what it really is"
[21:04] <LazyLeopard> A spectrum analyser would be the best way to see what was happening, but of the options they've given, only one might do the job.
[21:04] <mikestir> LazyLeopard: there is a version of that question where SA is an option
[21:04] <mikestir> as well as receiver
[21:05] <LazyLeopard> The other thing worth remembering is that the questions that leak into "example papers" and the like are often ones which didn't quite make the grade for the actual question bank.
[21:06] <sa6bss> how many questions and how many have to be correct to pass the test??
[21:06] <mikestir> on the intermediate it's something like 27 out of 45
[21:06] <LazyLeopard> mikestir: which makes it a bad question.
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> they don't publish this data for Advanced
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> so nobody knows
[21:07] <mikestir> advanced is moderated isn't it?
[21:07] <mikestir> so a percentage of candidates pass rather than there being a set threshold
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> in fact it works backwards
[21:07] <LazyLeopard> LeoBodnar: They used not to, but I think they now do.
[21:07] <sa6bss> ok, thats good ods then :) good luck!
[21:09] <LazyLeopard> ...and the pass mark's something like 62%
[21:09] <LeoBodnar> yeah sounds about right
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[21:09] <LazyLeopard> mikestir: No, the pass mark is fixed.
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[21:12] <daveake> Yes the pass mark is fixed. I believe the pass/merit/distinction split is by percentages
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[21:16] Action: LazyLeopard has never heard of any pass/merit/distinction split in the amateur radio exams here.
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[21:29] <bertrik> only saw this a few minutes ago: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=673932415979518&set=a.116008071771958.7699.111607872211978&type=1&theater
[21:30] <bertrik> (about google project loon helium balloons outside the coast of new zealand)
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> test 1?
[21:31] <g0pai_ian> There are passes and fails, nothing more. Absorbtion wavemeters are largely a thing of the past and were used in an era of VFOs. Nowadays the Freq Synth takes care of things. There is no longer a requirement for you to own or have access to an absorbtion wavemeter.
[21:35] <daveake> Sorry, you're wrong. You can pass with merit or with distinction now.
[21:36] <LazyLeopard> Did that come in with the optical marking?
[21:36] <daveake> yes
[21:37] <g0pai_ian> Point conceded Dave. I was wrong.
[21:38] <LazyLeopard> Ah.
[21:38] <daveake> s'ok ... I have recent experience of this :)
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[21:38] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:39] <g0pai_ian> http://rsgb.org/main/clubs-training/tutor-resources-2/training-guide/training-assessment-guide/exam/ under the paragraph of certificates.
[21:43] <g0pai_ian> craag*
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[21:45] <g0pai_ian> On the subject of amateur radio and conceding points. http://www.erau.ee/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110&Itemid=87 It appears that Estonia allows visitors to work Air Mobile under CEPT. So I was wrong again
[21:45] <g0pai_ian> I trust this isn't going to become a habit - being wrong that is!
[21:46] <LazyLeopard> It's an on-going learning experience... ;)
[21:46] <g0pai_ian> Just when you think you have it nailed.
[21:47] <LazyLeopard> ...they change it all to keep you on your toes.
[21:48] <g0pai_ian> For anyone doing the advance exam though, the advice is to familiarise yourself with the licence. There are around 13 questions (memory fails but the syllibus will tell you) and all but one is a case of knowing whee to look and being able to realise that the answer is word for word out of the licence. A gift that can make up for technical shortcomings.
[21:49] <g0pai_ian> Admit to getting licence questions wrong at Advance and I shoot you.
[21:49] <LazyLeopard> Heh! ;)
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> good news everybody
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> my new balloon computer is in production
[21:49] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:50] <Upu> thought it was going to be about the dacia sandero
[21:50] <daveake> lol
[21:50] <daveake> So is this yet another Lunar Launch year?
[21:50] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> probably
[21:51] <Upu> Hell did freeze over this year daveake it was in the news
[21:51] <daveake> ah
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> maybe we will fly on a balloon on HAM RADIO at lake constance and maybe we will fly our second flight also
[21:51] <daveake> Aiming for a lake this time, instead of a river?
[21:51] <Upu> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25658453
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> XD well launching at a lake is almost it I believe
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> also
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> tomorrow will be the first anniversary of the flight into the river
[21:51] <Lunar_Lander> :D
[21:52] <daveake> yes it's in my diary
[21:53] <g0pai_ian> A bit of a setback for those wishing to switch to AR airborne mobile over Estonia though - http://www.erau.ee/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=147&Itemid=118
[21:54] <g0pai_ian> A bit of a Geo fenceing conundrum as they have nine callsign regions. Hmmmm
[21:55] <Upu> easy
[21:56] <Upu> https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=https:%2F%2Fraw.github.com%2FUpuaut%2FAPRS_Projects%2Fmaster%2FData%2FEurope.kml&hl=en&sll=52.8382,-2.327815&sspn=7.622047,20.083008&t=h&z=3
[21:56] <Upu> all ready carved it up
[21:56] <Upu> wouldn't be too hard to add the rest
[21:57] <g0pai_ian> I guess that it would add to the code overhead and be a bit of a bummer if the balloon missed Estonia after all the hard work! :-)
[21:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:06] <Willdude123> Pointers in C are making me feel like I have PME
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[22:12] <Willdude123> In the code I am trying to implement a vigenere cipher. So far I have a function that (should) return(s) the position of a letter in the alphabet, I'm trying to make an array of all these said positions in the alphabet for every single letter passed in argv-1, and at the moment, C is being annoying regarding the inputs http://is.gd/cs50code1
[22:13] <Willdude123> It says there's an invalid pointer to integer conversion, but I thought chars and ints were interchangeable
[22:14] <daveake> Pointers aren't interchangeable
[22:14] <aadamson> chars and ints being interchangeable, I doubt that... char is +/-127, int is whatever the host defines it as
[22:14] <aadamson> and yes, pointers will be dependant on lots of things
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[22:15] <aadamson> that's why they finally came out with int8_t, int16_t etc
[22:15] <aadamson> and the "u" versions of same
[22:15] <aadamson> and if you add c++ to the mix it gets even more wonky, if anything char and byte are similar, but even that has a sign issue
[22:16] <Willdude123> What I mean is you can format a char to an int and vice versa in printf, athough I guess you could say that about anything
[22:17] <Willdude123> Right err
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[22:17] <aadamson> yeah I wouldn't use printf as a way to think about type conversion, sure you can do it for output, but internally, each time has a defined storage size which in effect contributes to what they can equate too
[22:17] <aadamson> time = type
[22:18] <aadamson> you can *sometimes* use <casts> to convert, but even that isn't perfect as there is an issue with sign roll over on some types
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[22:19] <Willdude123> Hmm
[22:19] <Willdude123> I am a bit stuck
[22:19] <aadamson> bottom line, use the type you need and define it as either signed or not and if you want to convert it, understand that how you do that may or may not be portable
[22:19] <Hade__> What's CHEAPO?
[22:20] <chrisstubbs> Thats me testing :)
[22:20] <Willdude123> aadamson, signed?
[22:21] <mfa298> Willdude123: signed -128 to 127, unsigned 0 to 255 (for an 8 bit storage type)
[22:22] <Willdude123> Oh noes
[22:22] <aadamson> I think that's -127 to 127 as 0 is a value so it's -127 to 127 vs 0 to 255
[22:22] <Willdude123> Segfault
[22:22] <Willdude123> That's bad, right?
[22:23] <aadamson> yep, just means that program crashed somehow
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[22:23] <daveake> No it is -128 to +127
[22:23] <aadamson> gotta run, but good c types and type casting
[22:23] <daveake> 2's complement
[22:23] <aadamson> yes that's right dave, for got my math for a minute
[22:23] <aadamson> forgot
[22:24] <mfa298> segfault generallly means you did something wrong in your memory space
[22:24] <daveake> we had one flight that went from 32767m to -32768
[22:24] <bertrik> ouch
[22:24] <daveake> made a big hole
[22:25] <Willdude123> So it segfaults at the int *vigchars bit
[22:26] <daveake> Your pointer isn't pointing where you want it to
[22:26] <Willdude123> Pfft
[22:26] <Willdude123> Oops
[22:26] <Willdude123> I didn't enter an argument
[22:27] <mfa298> also look up what sizeof does and how big an int normally is
[22:27] <mfa298> and think about what "for (int i = 0; i < sizeof(*vigchars); i++)" does
[22:28] <daveake> http://www.quickmeme.com/img/9c/9cbafa4425427d57566c28ffed8e1c7a5d8f16bccb86702a94224fc781328b3c.jpg
[22:29] <Willdude123> Ah
[22:29] <Willdude123> The size of the pointer
[22:29] <Willdude123> Int is four bytes, from memory
[22:29] <Willdude123> Sizeof gives the number of bytes ah, right
[22:30] <Willdude123> Wait no, 1 byte
[22:30] <mikestir> sizeof int actually depends on the architecture you're running on
[22:30] <mikestir> it's at least 2 bytes
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> for an assembly person the concept of "casting" is akin to heresy
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> similar to concept of "data types"
[22:31] <Willdude123> mikestir, right, this is getting confusing
[22:31] <Willdude123> Argv will be taken as a string
[22:32] <Willdude123> Wait that has nothing to do with ti
[22:32] <mfa298> the main point I was trying to make is that the space you've allocated will be several times larger than the number of charaters (in fact sizeof(int) times larger)
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> i just love how in C, x+1 can actually mean x+4
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[22:32] <mfa298> so your for loop need to take into account how big an int is.
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> i am off
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> haha
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[22:33] <mfa298> (at least I think that's right)
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[22:34] <Willdude123> mfa298 so sizeof(array)/ sizeof(int)?
[22:35] <mikestir> you can't do sizeof on an array you malloced
[22:35] <mikestir> sizeof is expanded at compile time
[22:35] <mfa298> also sizeof may return the wrong value if it's a pointer that's been passed into a function (which is why functions needing to know the number of elements in an array generally have two parameters the array and its size.
[22:36] <mfa298> Willdude123: if you want to check what's happening add lots of printf statements.
[22:36] <Willdude123> Ahhhhh
[22:36] <Willdude123> I get ut
[22:36] <Willdude123> The pointer only points
[22:36] <Willdude123> So it is not the size of the thing it is pointing to
[22:36] <Willdude123> It is one byte large
[22:36] <mfa298> things like: printf("vigchars is %zu bytes\n", sizeof(*vigchars));
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> size of pointer is platform dependent
[22:37] <mfa298> NB check if %zu is the right specifier for size_t
[22:37] <mikestir> also, you are doing sizeof(*pointer), so you are asking for the size of the element being pointed to (int in this case)
[22:39] <mikestir> remember you already know how big your array is because you just told it that when you allocated it
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> psst, come here Willdude123, do you want to check this MOV command out? No sweat, just have a look, let me know if you like it, i'll bring more tomorrow. Just try using it, bro
[22:40] <mikestir> LeoBodnar: show him one of those dsPIC opcodes that does 15 things at once :)
[22:40] <Willdude123> LeoBodnar, tomorrow
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> mov [w0++], [w1++]
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> smoooth and simple
[22:42] <LeoBodnar> and takes 25 nanoseconds to execute
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[22:43] <Willdude123> On a side note, I need to change the getalpha thing to take an int
[22:43] <mikestir> why?
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[22:45] <Willdude123> Because I may as well keep it as int
[22:45] <Willdude123> Because I need to do math
[22:46] <Willdude123> Now for some reason, vigchars is always always always 4 bytes
[22:46] <mikestir> you mean sizeof(*vigchars) is?
[22:47] <Willdude123> Yes,
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[22:48] <mikestir> that's expected - remember pointers don't contain any size information
[22:48] <mikestir> vigchars is just a pointer to a single int as far as the compiler is concerned
[22:48] <mikestir> and int has a size of 4 bytes in your case
[22:49] <Willdude123> Right, so how would I get the size of the whole array?
[22:49] <mikestir> you want the number of elements in the array, not its size
[22:50] <mikestir> think about how you got that when you first allocated it
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[22:51] <Willdude123> Hmm
[22:52] <Willdude123> strlen
[22:52] <Willdude123> But that's for strings
[22:53] <mfa298> Willdude123: you might find it useful to write a short programme that does the malloc then prints out sizeof(*vigchars), sizeof(int) and possibly a couple of others you're interested in.
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[22:55] <mikestir> Willdude123: you have the same number of ints as you have characters in the string
[22:56] <Willdude123> Right
[22:57] <Willdude123> Ima have to go to bed now
[22:57] <Willdude123> Maybe not
[22:57] <Willdude123> IDK
[22:57] <Willdude123> This is confusing me so so so so so much
[22:57] <Willdude123> Right, I'll write a test program
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[22:59] <mfa298> Willdude123: a well placed printf is a great tool when you want to check if things are doing what you think they are.
[22:59] <Willdude123> Yeah
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[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> one year passed now :)
[23:00] <Willdude123> mfa298 all those are four bytes
[23:00] <Willdude123> I might have to call it a night
[23:01] <fsphil> programming fun?
[23:02] <Willdude123> It should be allocating 52 bytes
[23:02] <Willdude123> It doesn't, only four
[23:02] <fsphil> what's the command?
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[23:02] <fsphil> and how are you telling how much it's allocating?
[23:03] <mfa298> sounds sensible int is usually 4 bytes on most platforms, a pointer will be often be 4 bytes as well but will depend on the platform
[23:03] <fsphil> I don't believe there is a way to tell how big a malloc() is
[23:03] <fsphil> it's either the size you ask it, or it didn't work
[23:04] <mikestir> Willdude123: ^^^this. It's not that it is only allocating 4 bytes. It's that you can't use sizeof on a malloced array (as I said earlier)
[23:04] <Willdude123> http://is.gd/cs502
[23:05] <Willdude123> http://is.gd/cs50code2
[23:05] <Willdude123> http://is.gd/cs50code3
[23:05] <Willdude123> There
[23:05] <Willdude123> mikestir, aaaahhhh
[23:05] <fsphil> sizeof() on the result of malloc will be the size of the pointer
[23:05] <fsphil> not what it points to
[23:05] <Willdude123> How should I allocate it?
[23:06] <mikestir> you can allocate it like that, but you have to keep track of the number of elements yourself
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[23:08] <Willdude123> mikestir, how?
[23:08] <mikestir> when you allocate it, you ask for sizeof(int) * the number of elements you want
[23:10] <mikestir> so just remember how many elements you asked for and use that in your loop
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[23:11] <mfa298_> how do you normally remember stuff ina programme
[23:12] <Willdude123> Comments
[23:12] <Willdude123> Wait no
[23:12] <Willdude123> Variables
[23:14] <fsphil> if it never ever changes, a define can do too
[23:14] <fsphil> not sure if you've used those yet
[23:15] <Willdude123> I think, yep I got it
[23:15] <Willdude123> Now getalphapos is always returning 0
[23:16] <mfa298> never be afraid of using more variables
[23:17] <Willdude123> Oh joy
[23:17] <Willdude123> http://i.imgur.com/3dy3oLk.png
[23:17] <Willdude123> I should probably be off to bed
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[23:20] <fsphil> not sure what that first line is doing
[23:20] <WillTablet> Thanks for your help
[23:20] <WillTablet> fsphil: can you link me back to my code? On tablet client now
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[23:20] <fsphil> http://i.imgur.com/3dy3oLk.png
[23:21] <fsphil> where it sets len
[23:22] <WillTablet> fsphil: its the same expression used in malloc
[23:22] <mikestir> yeah remember you want the number of elements in your array, not its size
[23:22] <WillTablet> So I know how big it is
[23:22] <mikestir> malloc wants the size in bytes, but your loop wants the number of elements
[23:22] <WillTablet> Damn
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[23:24] <fsphil> yea malloc doesn't know the data type, or anything about what you intend to put in the memory
[23:24] <fsphil> it just wants number of bytes
[23:25] <mikestir> you might find it clearer to use calloc instead of malloc. calloc takes the element size separately (and zeroes out your array as a bonus)
[23:25] <mikestir> however, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using malloc
[23:26] <mikestir> so malloc(sizeof(int) * nelements) is essentially equivalent to calloc(nelements, sizeof(int)), but you might find the latter more readable
[23:28] <mfa298> of course with both of them you should also be checking that they allocated you the memory.
[23:28] <mikestir> indeed
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[23:28] <fsphil> yes. good advice. test everything, assume nothing
[23:28] <fsphil> especially when accessing memory
[23:29] <fsphil> and dealing with input
[23:29] Action: fsphil is guilty of breaking these rules on occasion :)
[23:30] <mfa298> it's amazing how many examples out there do bad things.
[23:30] <WillTablet> Gmm
[23:30] <WillTablet> Hmm
[23:30] <mfa298> I was looking at examples for realloc a while ago and most examples assumed the memory location didn't get moved.
[23:31] <fsphil> eek
[23:31] <WillTablet> These look cool http://www.ettus.com/home
[23:31] <WillTablet> I don't know why tho
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[23:33] <fsphil> expensive stuff usually does :)
[23:33] <fsphil> I feel like I'm wasting money just browsing ettus.com
[23:34] <mfa298> lol
[23:34] <mikestir> it's not as bad as looking at high end HF rigs
[23:35] <g0pai_ian> I have a grandson that changes the subject when it gets difficult . . .
[23:37] <WillTablet> g0pai_ian: interesting.
[23:37] <fsphil> I'll be happy enough with the hackrf when it's released
[23:37] <fsphil> ettus-lite
[23:37] <g0pai_ian> Yeah, I't funny to watch, but I'm sure you will win.
[23:38] <eroomde> i bought an ettus today
[23:38] <eroomde> weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[23:38] <g0pai_ian> We are all jealous, very !
[23:38] <eroomde> 'i' = houses money, which is not my money
[23:38] <mfa298> you or your work?
[23:38] <eroomde> except via complicated stakeholding arrangements that will mean nothing unless we get bought out
[23:39] <eroomde> my work
[23:39] <WillTablet> g0pai_ian: sorry I know this is slightly ironic coming from me but how is that remotely even related to anything within the scope of anything technical?
[23:40] <g0pai_ian> Ed, I watched 3/4 of your talk this afternoon. Slept like a baby and had to rewind a bit. Interesting though, well beyond me
[23:40] <eroomde> just a bit WillTablet
[23:40] <g0pai_ian> Will, you would have to have been watching your conversation for the last thirty minutes to know.
[23:40] <eroomde> g0pai_ian: it was kind of an experiment in how much DSP i could do in a workshop session
[23:41] <mfa298> I imagine that's how most people get ettus stuff to play with. Like all nice toys it has a high price tag.
[23:41] <WillTablet> g0pai_ian: I dropped the conversation as I was no longer working on it
[23:41] <eroomde> not in a great hurray to do it again, and live-coding is a v large added stress
[23:41] <WillTablet> Anyhow
[23:41] <WillTablet> HackRF looks fabulous
[23:41] <fsphil> it does
[23:41] <eroomde> mfa298: yeah indeed, it's easy enough to price into a project but a lot for hobby stuff
[23:42] <eroomde> but i'm keen
[23:42] <eroomde> it's something of a vna (in some respects) which i will definitely find useful
[23:42] <fsphil> yea hackrf won't be able to do that
[23:43] <WillTablet> eroomde: what was your use for the ettus? Or is that info subject to am NDA?
[23:43] <eroomde> i got the log-periodic antenna too
[23:43] <eroomde> and we have a huge open-field site
[23:43] <fsphil> perfect
[23:43] <eroomde> so i hope we can do some interesting characterisation on antennas for the rocket work
[23:43] <eroomde> WillTablet: nope, loads
[23:43] <g0pai_ian> eroomde* you can only pull that off if you are well on top of your subject though. I will be watching the last quarter tomorrow. I woon't learn much, but will have a lot better appreciation by the end
[23:43] <eroomde> 1: gps simulation
[23:44] <eroomde> 2: experimenting with telemetry for loads of things
[23:44] <eroomde> 3: network analysis and radiation pattern stuff (in a limited way)
[23:44] <WillTablet> Awesome
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[23:44] <eroomde> so putting antennas on rockets can be hard
[23:44] <eroomde> this will help test the antenna designs
[23:44] Action: WillTablet drools at the rf
[23:45] <WillTablet> *hackrf
[23:45] <WillTablet> I have a pretty big wishlist
[23:45] <WillTablet> Radio, proper soldering iron, Heathkit when they come back out
[23:45] <g0pai_ian> Worked Victors on CW long time ago on HF, Notch antenna that caused deep fading when they turned the wrong way.
[23:46] <fsphil> spinny rocket is going to be a right pain
[23:46] <fsphil> unless you put the antenna out the top
[23:46] <eroomde> yep
[23:46] <g0pai_ian> Vertically polarised then?
[23:46] <eroomde> i was gonna experiment with conformal patches
[23:46] <torq> Deploy antenna at apogee?
[23:46] <eroomde> that should be agnostic to spinning
[23:47] <WillTablet> Is it possible that we might be able to get HF telemetry from a hab if we get amateur radio airborne use? I mean a long wire wouldn't be difficult to drape
[23:47] <fsphil> no reason why not. HF is used in other countries from balloons
[23:47] <eroomde> WillTablet: indeed it's a great idea, n theory you can get perfect dipoles. but i've no idea what'll come of the consultations
[23:48] <torq> Are you guys talking about the ukra Scotland tracking 'problem' ?
[23:48] <fsphil> HF is rather unpredictable
[23:48] <WillTablet> Sounds silly but what exactly is a consultation in that context? Is it a closed meeting?
[23:48] <eroomde> torq: well, i have lost a rocket stage to scotland before
[23:48] <eroomde> thanks to mountains
[23:48] <eroomde> at a ukra launch
[23:49] <eroomde> so i guess, yes
[23:49] <torq> There's a bit of a discussion going on in the UKRA forum about this
[23:49] <eroomde> but more generally i'm interested in grokking conformal patch design as between that and the right modulation, i think most of the problems should go away
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[23:49] <eroomde> i try and stay away from the ukra forum
[23:50] <torq> My suggestion was APRS mesh network but I did not know that 144.8mhz is not allowed on airborne vehicles.
[23:50] <WillTablet> Will the consultation just be between ofcom and rsgb?
[23:50] <torq> eroomde: What's wrong with the ukra forum?
[23:51] <WillTablet> Drama I think
[23:51] <eroomde> there's a fair amount of confused and angry
[23:51] <eroomde> at least there was a couple of years ago
[23:51] <eroomde> when i gave up
[23:51] <WillTablet> It's weird - I applied for a school trip to New York and my instinct was to google to find all the repeaters in NYC
[23:52] <WillTablet> eroomde: is that UK.radio.amateur?
[23:52] <torq> Interesting. There's a huge discussion in there at the moment about rocket tracking at Scotland big range.
[23:52] <eroomde> oh gosh no, uk.radio.amateur is in a different universe
[23:52] <WillTablet> Oh rocketry associatiob
[23:52] <WillTablet> Its horrible
[23:52] <eroomde> torq: cool
[23:52] <eroomde> are there any reports from the 2013 big range?
[23:52] <eroomde> i didn't hear anything
[23:53] <fsphil> quad copter radio relay :)
[23:53] <WillTablet> It's like listening in on a repeater below the bible belt, horrible forum
[23:53] <eroomde> someone today suggested quadcopters
[23:53] <torq> Don't think so - tbh not looked
[23:53] <eroomde> i think just a bit more tx power and more sensible modulation than i chose would be good
[23:53] <eroomde> i am confident i could do it a lot better if doing it again
[23:53] <LeoBodnar> I wonder how much EMI one quadcopter produces
[23:54] <eroomde> i went to 2012 big range
[23:54] <torq> Lol
[23:54] <fsphil> wasn't one of the big problems last time the frequency drift?
[23:54] <LeoBodnar> probably enough to see it from Mars
[23:54] <eroomde> fsphil: yeah
[23:54] <eroomde> i would rather up the power and switch to fm
[23:54] <torq> There is no 2014 big range. Being tightened up for 2015
[23:54] <eroomde> as doppler is just a dc offset
[23:54] <fsphil> yea AFSK's one advantage
[23:54] <eroomde> yeah, the 2013 big range did all seem suspiciously quiet
[23:55] <eroomde> i have no real horse in the ukra race so i didn't look too much, but it all seemed a bit odd
[23:55] <eroomde> not sure if anyone actually turned up
[23:55] <WillTablet> Do customs and immigration typically get annoyed about radios? Do I have to declare them when going abroad?
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[23:55] <fsphil> no
[23:55] <eroomde> WillTablet: no
[23:56] <eroomde> possibly somewhere like balarus wouldn't like it
[23:56] <eroomde> or north korea
[23:56] <eroomde> otherwise you're probably good
[23:56] <WillTablet> Pfft North Korea wou
[23:56] <WillTablet> Would be fine
[23:56] <torq> Phillippines will confiscate your radio
[23:56] <WillTablet> Apparently, the only tourist hotel is on an island
[23:56] <WillTablet> Genius idea
[23:57] <torq> Has to be approved equipment
[23:57] <eroomde> torq: am hoping to go to BALLS this year as a jolly, i think tracking and recovery there should be a lot less problematic
[23:57] <fsphil> for simplicity don't carry the radio on the plane, stick it in your luggage
[23:57] <WillTablet> Yeah
[23:57] <WillTablet> I really want to get on this trip
[23:58] <fsphil> I had the funcube dongle on the plane with a small antenna
[23:58] <WillTablet> Ah nice
[23:58] <WillTablet> ADSB decoding?
[23:58] <fsphil> sadly I didn't have the software for that
[23:58] <torq> eroomde: Jealous. A flat playa should be fine !
[23:58] <eroomde> yep!
[23:58] <fsphil> I was listening to FM stations of the countries I was flying over
[23:59] <WillTablet> Ah nice
[23:59] <WillTablet> Nice thing about US is airband listening is legal
[23:59] <fsphil> had a listen for aprs but got nothing
[23:59] <eroomde> torq: do you fly hpr then?
[23:59] <WillTablet> So even if I did take a scanner and they noticed I could say I'll only use it in the us
[00:00] --- Wed Mar 5 2014