highaltitude.log.20140303

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[08:31] <Lunar_LanderU> morning
[08:32] <fsphil> it certainly is
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[10:26] <DL7AD> morning
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[10:41] <Prometheus> question about radiosondes
[10:42] <eroomde> it should work above 1200mph
[10:42] <eroomde> (i can read minds)
[10:42] <Prometheus> I know they do not have a full GPS onboard
[10:42] <Prometheus> they transmit doppler shift information directly to the ground
[10:43] <eroomde> i've already answered your question
[10:43] <Prometheus> and the ground station processes that
[10:43] <Prometheus> Ok well I've forgotten then
[10:44] <eroomde> 10:42 < eroomde> it should work above 1200mph
[10:44] <Prometheus> I've though so for several yeas now
[10:44] <Prometheus> The guy's on arocket say it wont work
[10:45] <eroomde> i'm not actually sure it'd work either
[10:45] <Prometheus> I think it might be a bandwith issue
[10:45] <eroomde> i don't
[10:46] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Have you tracked any Sondes ? Given the accuracy and reliability I get I wouldn't put much faith in it
[10:46] <eroomde> if it can cope with sattelite doppler it can cope with doppler from your movement
[10:46] <eroomde> it will always be small compared to sattelite doppler
[10:46] <fsphil> I plotted the output of sondemonitor on spacenear and it was all over the place
[10:47] <Prometheus> sondemonitor worked fine for use several years ago
[10:47] <Prometheus> 2008
[10:48] <Prometheus> our first mission used a RS 92
[10:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Yes SM works fine but the number of inaccurate points and sometimes complete wayward tracks astounds me
[10:48] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I track about 6-9 a day at present
[10:48] <Prometheus> we could filter out the data
[10:49] <fsphil> what's all this for?
[10:50] <Prometheus> Our Spaceplane project
[10:51] <Prometheus> the problem is when we drop and ignite the booster we will surpass the COCOM limits and the G loading of average GPS modules
[10:52] <Prometheus> This is a problem for all rocketry
[10:53] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> I doubt any device designed for balloon work is going to get to worried about G forces!
[10:53] <Prometheus> Unless you can afford a Novtel at $10,000
[10:54] <Prometheus> Or test in April is balloon dropped
[10:54] <Prometheus> so yeah it applies to high altitude balloons
[10:55] <Prometheus> another reason to use this for high altitude balloons is power draw
[10:55] <Prometheus> a tracker based on this type GPS would also draw less power
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[11:02] <LeoBodnar> you need to process samples onboard, find correlation offsets and bean that down
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> maybe that is what radiosondes use
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> *beam
[11:03] <LeoBodnar> bean me up
[11:04] <LeoBodnar> rebroadcasting the whole 2MHz bandwidth is quite tough
[11:06] <Prometheus> yes I'd really like to know what sondemonitor really does
[11:07] <LeoBodnar> just make your own
[11:08] <Prometheus> Perhaps if my hands where not so full with other aspects
[11:09] <Prometheus> Or if someone on the te4am knew how to do that
[11:09] <LeoBodnar> maybe you can hire swift-nav guy(s)
[11:10] <Prometheus> I might be able to get Swift-Nav involved
[11:10] <Prometheus> They are interested
[11:11] <Prometheus> But it's not exactly in line with their work
[11:12] <Prometheus> I've been trying to conveince them to get into cubesat GPS
[11:13] <Prometheus> I've been talking to airspy as well
[11:25] <eroomde> i suspect they know about sat gps
[11:25] <eroomde> well i don't suspect
[11:25] <eroomde> i know
[11:26] <Prometheus> they are not persuing it at this point
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[11:26] <eroomde> you know that the main guy at swift-nav and the main electronics/comms guy at planet labs are both ex cusf?
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[11:26] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:26] <Prometheus> no I did not lol
[11:26] <Prometheus> your kidding
[11:26] <Prometheus> great!
[11:26] <eroomde> it was us and iain (who I now work with) who were the main 4 at cusfin the early days
[11:27] <Prometheus> Yeah I lost track of you guys in about 2010
[11:27] <eroomde> well, we stayed with space
[11:27] <eroomde> swift-nav was born of the work we did to get around the gps/rocket propblem
[11:28] <Prometheus> Once you go that far there really is no choice as I see it
[11:28] <eroomde> then both ferg and henry went to california to do one of the high-alt wind startups
[11:28] <eroomde> and swift spun-out when that sort of dissappeared
[11:28] <eroomde> and a few of those guys are at planet labs now too
[11:28] <SpeedEvil> Was that the turbine on a fast rotating kite?
[11:29] <eroomde> but yes, swift definitely know about sats and rockets
[11:29] <Prometheus> Yeah they had some intrest during the Kickstarter form us
[11:29] <eroomde> i suspect they're not so interested in cubesats because they have already friend that fish
[11:29] <SpeedEvil> Well - kite is wrong as it had good L/D
[11:29] <eroomde> fried*
[11:30] <Prometheus> so they have a solution?
[11:30] <eroomde> well yes, it's called gps
[11:30] <Prometheus> lol
[11:30] <eroomde> you're tying yourself in knots with this because you don't want to sit down and just make a gps receiver
[11:30] <Prometheus> ok gotta go
[11:30] <eroomde> it's not that hard
[11:30] <eroomde> watch my talk
[11:30] <Prometheus> I cant do it alone or I would
[11:31] <eroomde> i do rocket engines, i'm not a died-in-the-wool signals guy, but it's all just a question of visualising some flow diagrams
[11:31] <eroomde> i did it alone?
[11:31] <Prometheus> which talk
[11:31] <eroomde> LeoBodnar is more or less done it since my talk
[11:31] <eroomde> from the UKHAS 2013 conference
[11:32] <Prometheus> rofer
[11:32] <eroomde> i can never remember the direct link thing from batv
[11:32] <Prometheus> roger
[11:32] <eroomde> such an unpleasant website
[11:32] <eroomde> batc.tv
[11:32] <eroomde> film archive
[11:33] <eroomde> select category - hab 2013
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[11:33] <eroomde> select stream - gps part 1-4
[11:33] <eroomde> it's 2 hours
[11:33] <craag> Might be worth downloading them and embedding them on the ukhas wiki if we can
[11:33] <eroomde> it starts with some signal processing basics (just I and Q) and then does a receiver
[11:33] <craag> BATC will be happy as long as credit is given
[11:34] <LeoBodnar> i need to watch your talk eroomde, i did not pay much attention at the conf
[11:34] <eroomde> it's there
[11:34] <LeoBodnar> arko: knows direct link lol
[11:34] <eroomde> if you have that gnss book though, i suspect the talk won't add much
[11:34] <eroomde> it's basically just a simple pll receiver
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[11:35] <SpeedEvil> I need to watch that too. I'm probably weak on significant bits
[11:35] <eroomde> incidently iirc (been a while) that book is *terrible* on message decoding and nav solutions
[11:36] <eroomde> it doesn't describe the pain of GPS's parity/fec
[11:36] <eroomde> but i got a book by kaplan
[11:37] <eroomde> kaptan
[11:37] <eroomde> kapton
[11:37] <eroomde> something like that
[11:37] <eroomde> that explained all that lot better
[11:37] <LeoBodnar> book skips massive parts of the subject
[11:37] <LeoBodnar> like Nav message contents
[11:38] <eroomde> yeah, it's more just the signal processing
[11:38] <eroomde> a bit like my talk
[11:38] <LeoBodnar> but it comes with DVD that has sampled data
[11:38] <eroomde> oh?
[11:38] <eroomde> cool
[11:38] <LeoBodnar> which is important for fooling around
[11:38] <eroomde> yesw
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> because having made your own hardware you don't know if the problem is in your algorithms or hardware
[11:39] <Prometheus> I'm not the only guy on arocket working on a solution
[11:39] <eroomde> it's solved
[11:39] <Prometheus> Paul Breed has not solved it yet either
[11:39] <eroomde> it's solved
[11:39] <Prometheus> I'll watch the video for sure
[11:40] <Prometheus> and I'll send a link to arocket
[11:40] <eroomde> i'm hoping to fly something at balls this year
[11:40] <Prometheus> Really! We may finally meet then
[11:40] <eroomde> i'd quite like to do a black rock
[11:41] <Prometheus> We are palnning to take our ground control/tracking station up there
[11:41] <eroomde> easier conditions than the last hpr launch i did in scotland
[11:41] <eroomde> surrounded by mountains
[11:41] <Prometheus> You might want to go to burning man?
[11:41] <eroomde> is 70cms busy at balls, usually?
[11:41] <Prometheus> naaa not really
[11:41] <eroomde> is there some sort of gentlemanly agreement to manage emissions?
[11:41] <eroomde> cool
[11:42] <eroomde> i was just going to do a backup beacon on 70cm
[11:42] <Prometheus> wont be a problem
[11:42] <eroomde> incase all my conformal-patch-antenna experiments don't work out
[11:42] <Prometheus> what size rocket?
[11:43] <Prometheus> or are you doing a balloon?
[11:43] <eroomde> boosted dart
[11:43] <Prometheus> niiiice
[11:43] <eroomde> would like to hit balloon altitudes
[11:44] <eroomde> it's more of a jolly
[11:44] <eroomde> and a silly excuse to get a fun dataset from the gps
[11:44] <Prometheus> what impluse
[11:44] <Prometheus> You TRA member?
[11:45] <eroomde> O, if i told you, I'd have to kill you, probably 20,000 times
[11:45] <Prometheus> lol
[11:45] <eroomde> i'm not a TRA member no, but i think ben is
[11:45] <Prometheus> roger
[11:45] <Prometheus> good deal then
[11:45] <Prometheus> Ben Brokert?
[11:46] <eroomde> no
[11:46] <Prometheus> ok
[11:46] <eroomde> it''s early days, i'm hoping they'll do the booster and we'll do the dart
[11:46] <Prometheus> well we can do some tracking for you
[11:46] <eroomde> i'm not sure what tracking will be yet
[11:47] <Prometheus> ye have optical :)
[11:47] <eroomde> on the way down, once chute is deplyed, will be easy
[11:47] <eroomde> but i'm not yet sure about on the way up
[11:47] <eroomde> antennas will be hard
[11:47] <Prometheus> Balls is a ways off
[11:48] <eroomde> yeah, though there's a long list of actual rocket research between me and balls
[11:48] <eroomde> rather than just HPR fun-stuff
[11:48] <Prometheus> QFH for 70cm fits a 100mm tube
[11:48] <eroomde> so i need to start doing a bit of planning
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[11:49] <Prometheus> indeed
[11:49] <eroomde> 100mm is vastly too big
[11:49] <eroomde> and the tube will very likely be stainless
[11:49] <Prometheus> yeah for a dart
[11:49] <Prometheus> stainless is great
[11:49] <eroomde> not so great for putting antennas inside
[11:49] <Prometheus> better than alum imo
[11:49] <Prometheus> yeah negitive there
[11:50] <eroomde> better at what?
[11:50] <craag> eroomde: I've added direct links to the talks to the wiki: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2013?&#timetable
[11:50] <Prometheus> thin stainless better for casing
[11:50] <eroomde> craag: super
[11:50] <eroomde> thanks
[11:50] <Prometheus> ty craag
[11:51] <eroomde> i like ali
[11:51] <eroomde> but yes, stainless is pleasant enough to work with, and the mass helps in this app
[11:52] <Prometheus> yeah at balls you can fly O without a waiver
[11:52] <eroomde> and you can polish it, importantly
[11:52] <Prometheus> yeah you can do that
[11:52] <eroomde> i'd quite like something gleanings and 60's-looking
[11:52] <eroomde> gleaming*
[11:52] <Prometheus> ok I'm off for a 2 hr talk it appears
[11:53] <Prometheus> ttyl
[11:53] <Prometheus> thanks
[11:53] <eroomde> the first half is fannying around and signal-processing
[11:53] <eroomde> the 2nd half gets more into the gps specifics
[11:54] <SpeedEvil> Well - aluminium can do gleaming really well! :)
[11:55] <eroomde> i've never been convinced
[11:55] <SpeedEvil> I am somewhat annoyed that numerous sources in china offer stainless foil at several dollars a kilogram.
[11:55] <eroomde> it looks nice immediatelly after a finishing pass on a lathe
[11:55] <eroomde> then within a couple of days it's dulled right down
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> For 500kg or so.
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> Some form of laquer helps to reduce oxidisation.
[11:56] <SpeedEvil> But - if it's polished it does it too
[11:58] <eroomde> when people come to use our test site, i am now recording every time they come in to ask to biorrow a tool or something, despite saying they'll be self-contained
[11:58] <eroomde> i beleive i can then model this as a poisson distribution
[11:58] <eroomde> and then generate a pricing scheme based on lambda
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[13:08] <DL7AD_> morning
[13:11] <DL7AD_> fsphil: ping
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[15:01] <fsphil> pong DL7AD_
[15:01] <DL7AD_> fsphil: do you still have your pecan?
[15:02] <fsphil> I do
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[15:36] <x-f> http://io9.com/5510801/what-to-do-if-youre-the-first-human-to-ever-make-contact-with-aliens
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[15:55] <Maxell> x-f: can't be prepped enough
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> your local council might be bale to help
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> nibbleswap
[15:57] <LeoBodnar> 0xable
[15:58] <LeoBodnar> surely they have alien community outreach officer
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[16:13] <LazyLeopard> they'd probably out-source the task...
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[16:22] <nats`> love the final advise
[16:22] <nats`> reproduce as much as possible !
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[16:28] <fsphil> spooky
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[16:32] <nats`> what means spooky ?
[16:33] <fsphil> "Helios-Reaper"
[16:34] <Helios-Reaper> ????
[16:34] <Helios-Reaper> why am i spooky?
[16:34] <fsphil> only spooky if you fear the reaper
[16:34] <Helios-Reaper> have a look at the host name ;)
[16:34] <cm13g09> Helios-Reaper: Do you have power?
[16:34] <Helios-Reaper> yes, 32 has had power throught
[16:34] <cm13g09> Understand Zepler doesn't :P
[16:34] <fsphil> hah
[16:34] <Helios-Reaper> network seems to just be coming back
[16:35] <Helios-Reaper> Zepler didn't cm13g09
[16:35] <cm13g09> Helios-Reaper: does now?
[16:35] <Helios-Reaper> no idea, but i would guess as we have networks back and all the routing is done in 59 ;)
[16:36] <cm13g09> yeah
[16:36] <cm13g09> Hash is still down though Helios-Reaper
[16:36] <Helios-Reaper> yeah - probably bringing things up slowly
[16:36] <cm13g09> According to Muzer, the aircon failed to come back on :P
[16:37] <Helios-Reaper> that ius normal in server rooms... aircon techs aren't used to setting a system to auto-on
[16:37] <Helios-Reaper> hmm, looks like we have filestore up, but DCs are down, so no authentication
[16:37] <cm13g09> yeah
[16:40] <cm13g09> this is normal....
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[17:06] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[17:11] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander and bye ;)
[17:12] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[17:12] <Lunar_Lander> see you
[17:14] <DL7AD> i will drive home now Lunar_Lander ;) but that takes just 15mins
[17:14] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[19:00] <ibanezmatt13_> ping Upu
[19:01] <ibanezmatt13_> Upu: Important: Does the stub antenna have to be outside of the foam ball?
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[19:05] <Upu> no ibanezmatt13_
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13_> awesome
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13_> my room is now officially made of polystyrene
[19:06] <SpeedEvil> The foam is - mostly - air.
[19:06] <craag> lol ibanezmatt13_
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13_> yeah, I thought that but just wanted to be sure before I commited
[19:06] <ibanezmatt13_> :)
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13_: Protip. _before_ doing anything iwth foam, spray everything with a slight fairly liquid solution
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> Continue doing so intermittently
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> fairy liquid - or any other detegent
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13_> Is this a health thing?
[19:07] <SpeedEvil> No, it's a 'fucking stuff gets everywhere' thing.
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13_> ah haha
[19:07] <ibanezmatt13_> I'm a bit past that to be honest
[19:07] <bertrik> to prevent it from clinging by static electricity?
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> If it's wet - it's basically innocuous.
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> And doesn't go anywhere, or stick much
[19:08] <ibanezmatt13_> Ah right, I think my only chance is to use the hoover
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13_> Upu: http://1drv.ms/1contEP
[19:12] <Upu> should do it
[19:12] <Upu> don't forget the clips
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13_> ah yeah, not even sure how they go on, one sec
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[19:14] <ibanezmatt13_> erm yeah Upu, how do those clips go on again? :/
[19:14] <Upu> on the edges
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13_> right...
[19:15] <Upu> with the battery in they slide over the top of the clips
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13_> this is my lack of common sense coming through
[19:15] <Upu> 1 sec
[19:16] <LeoBodnar> new board?
[19:17] <Upu> old one
[19:17] <ibanezmatt13_> Can't seem to crack it
[19:17] <Upu> hang on
[19:18] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/jQqQkKD.jpg
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13_> oh, right, that makes sense
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[19:19] <Upu> it was an old board I did last year designed as a plug and go backup tracker for larger flights
[19:20] <Upu> you just screw on a stub antenna and stick a battery in and its good to go
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13_> Can't believe I never thought of that, thanks!
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[20:02] <LeoBodnar> reading 72 pages datasheet and not finding anything about any registers settings
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> then noticing that it says "summary" in the title
[20:02] <SpeedEvil> sigh
[20:02] <LeoBodnar> finding "proper" datasheet
[20:03] <LeoBodnar> 1185 pages
[20:03] <cm13g09> LeoBodnar: sounds more like it :P
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[20:06] <LeoBodnar> noticing it's the wrong series
[20:07] <LeoBodnar> "right" series here we go
[20:07] <LeoBodnar> 1467 pages
[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, which chip?
[20:10] <LeoBodnar> One of Atmel's ARMs
[20:11] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[22:01] <jededu> How does this look its my first attempt :) http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/pi2.pdf
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[22:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Why the routing and the link fiorthe R2 R3 connection ?
[22:09] <mfa298> are those linear regulators or smps modules ?
[22:09] <jededu> im using this as guidance http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[22:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> Turn R2 at right angles and slide towards R5 then no extra link
[22:10] <jededu> They are switching regs the footprint is the same as TO 220
[22:11] <mfa298> good (I tried a quick google but couldn't find references to them hence the question)
[22:12] <mfa298> if the top layer just links or is the empty space ground pour.
[22:12] Nick change: mazzanet_ -> mazzanet
[22:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> like wise the R1/JP1 connection to the ublox run it to the right of R1 and you don't need the track on the other side that way
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[22:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> that will also make your ground plane a lot more effective without the split down the middle
[22:16] <jededu> Thanks Geoff-G8DHE> ill do that makes sense
[22:18] <mfa298> are you using P1-3 & P1-5 as I2C or just GPIO ?
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[22:18] <jededu> mfa298 this is what I am using http://www.tracopower.com/fileadmin/medien/dokumente/pdf/product_selection/TSR1.pdf
[22:19] <jededu> I2c
[22:20] <mfa298> I won't suggest swapping the pins over then to save the needing the vias and link as that won't work.
[22:20] <mfa298> For the power do you *need* the 5V (as per the suggestions last week).
[22:21] <mfa298> from memory 5V is only needed for HDMI, USB and a voltage sense into the BCM (doesn't actually need to be 5V)
[22:22] <jededu> Yes the kids at school use the USB for WiFi and K/M so I really need the option
[22:22] <mfa298> it might also be worth considering removing the LDO on the Pi and using your 3v3 smps to provide 3v3 to the pi - at least for the flight pi's
[22:24] <jededu> I will use 3.3v on my own projects but for class demos etc i have to keep the 5v as an option
[22:24] <mfa298> maybe consider having some flight Pi's (model-A with power mods) and development pi's that don't have the mods.
[22:24] <craag> Especially as you can just swap the SD cards around
[22:25] <craag> THat's what I did when developing ssdv
[22:25] <mfa298> My Pi development has all been on a Model-B but if/when anything get's flown it will be with a model-a with power mods.
[22:25] <mfa298> having something with ethernet makes developing much easier (I just use ssh to develope stuff)
[22:26] <jededu> Im not doing sstv yet or ssdv :)
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[22:27] <jededu> My primary kids dont get ssh lol
[22:28] <jededu> We are using Scratch they get that
[22:29] <mfa298> I could probably do with using a rev-b board with uC on the top so that it can hit the hard reset header when I crash it by prodding the wrong stuff into gpio memory.
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[22:30] <jededu> uc ?
[22:30] <mfa298> microcontroller.
[22:30] <jededu> ah
[22:31] <mfa298> basicly something that could act as a watchdog when developing stuff, last time I was working on that code the process was: write code, compile, run, power cycle.
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[22:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anybody here read japanese Kanji symbold ?
[22:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> *symbols
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[23:01] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, Upu question on the voltage divider networks on the out side of these boost or buck controllers, are you using .1% or 1% resistors and will 1/10w be large enough?
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> 1/10W resistors is quite adequate for almost any divider network.
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> Simply compute the power - voltage divided by total resistance in the divider gives you current.
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> I^2*R = power
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> And 1% is again quite fine for most feedback resistors - unless you need under 2% voltage accuracy - which you almost never do.
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> Most regulators will not have a reference better than 1% anyway
[23:04] <aadamson> ok, you know I never looked to see what the variability was of n LDO for example :)
[23:04] <aadamson> but that make perfect sense.
[23:04] <aadamson> and 1% is way easier to find in the right values that .1% (at least in 0603's) :)
[23:04] <aadamson> thanks for your comments!
[23:05] <SpeedEvil> np.
[23:05] <aadamson> are you EU based as well, seems most here are?
[23:06] <aadamson> I'm just working on the BOM's on my latest contraption :) - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/radio.png
[23:06] <aadamson> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6730484/Solar.png
[23:06] <aadamson> but with a bunch of twists :)
[23:07] <aadamson> who knows if they will all work or not, but hey I could think of a lot more expensive way to have fun :)
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[23:07] <SpeedEvil> I'm scottish.
[23:07] <SpeedEvil> nice
[23:08] <mfa298> followup question would be will you be EU after the referrendum :p (but that's into polotics so should probably be ignored)
[23:08] <aadamson> ah, very good and nice to meet you... this morning an M0NCZ contacted me and for now it looks like we've bound up a couple of repeater networks.
[23:08] <aadamson> his there in manchester and mine here in Atlanta
[23:09] <LeoBodnar> my PCB assembler gave me an advice. Always use 1% everywhere even when you don't need it
[23:09] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, yeah, I did get bit by that however
[23:09] <LeoBodnar> When they are out of the tape it is impossible to know whet they were. And on a PCB you can even measure them
[23:09] <LeoBodnar> *can't
[23:09] <aadamson> there is a voltage divider to center the PWM coming out of the processor and I used 1% and ended up influencing the pull on the vcxo :)... but I'll rememdy that, those are easy to get in .1%
[23:10] <SpeedEvil> I personally do not favour devolution.
[23:10] <mattbrejza> btw LeoBodnar how good are assemblers at getting parcular parts? if you can get it on farnell are they likely to be able to get hold of it too?
[23:10] <LeoBodnar> yes but so far i have only used free issue parts
[23:11] <LeoBodnar> but they are pretty good
[23:11] <LeoBodnar> this is their job in the end
[23:11] <mattbrejza> true
[23:11] <mattbrejza> free issue?
[23:11] <LeoBodnar> if you send them 10nF 25V they would call back and say BOM says they should be 10nF 16V is it OK to go ahead?
[23:12] <LeoBodnar> "free issue" = "here you go, use this"
[23:12] <mattbrejza> oh right
[23:12] <LeoBodnar> it's their lingo
[23:12] <LeoBodnar> = you supply parts
[23:13] <mattbrejza> so you have to ship them all the bits?
[23:13] <aadamson> so my BOM on the solar/lipo board without board cost is about $15 US at qty1
[23:13] <LeoBodnar> yes
[23:13] <LeoBodnar> but they will be more than happy to source themselves
[23:13] <aadamson> my experience with a china production house was they wanted me to provide them with digikey BOM and they purchased and built from that, so far so good
[23:14] <mattbrejza> for generic stuff is it cheaper to let them source them?
[23:14] <aadamson> they even passed through the prices, and it just cost me the shipping to them
[23:15] <LeoBodnar> I just buy all from usual suspects and package it all with PCB, a sample, a drawing and off you go
[23:15] <LeoBodnar> I assemble in the UK though
[23:16] <mattbrejza> oh right
[23:16] <LeoBodnar> oh and stencil gerebrs via email
[23:16] <mattbrejza> theres a place almost across the road it seems
[23:16] <LeoBodnar> http://www.printsys.co.uk/
[23:16] <mattbrejza> i wonder how much more expensive it is to get it done in the uk than china
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> they charge £250 for stencil and programming + 5p per each part on a PCB
[23:18] <LeoBodnar> I am sure China can do it for 0.1p
[23:18] <mattbrejza> hmm interesting to know
[23:18] <LeoBodnar> stencil and programming is one off
[23:19] <mattbrejza> also if we use the local one maybe we can go look around :D
[23:19] <LeoBodnar> but some of my designs run into tens of thousands PCBs
[23:19] <LeoBodnar> sure! just pop around
[23:19] <LeoBodnar> it is a very good chance
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> I have gone to see them and they are very friendly and accomodating
[23:20] <mattbrejza> http://www.phoenixsystemsuk.com/ these are the people which are local
[23:20] <LeoBodnar> i'd say you have to go see them as it will put some things in place
[23:21] <LeoBodnar> I have been to a few assembly places and they were all more than happy to take you around
[23:21] <mattbrejza> would be nice to see the boards go through
[23:21] <LeoBodnar> And I am not a big customer at all
[23:22] <mattbrejza> we can play the university card too :P
[23:22] <LeoBodnar> They usually can tell you when they are on the machine and you can pop around to see your boards done
[23:22] <LeoBodnar> sure, try them
[23:22] <LeoBodnar> if you don't ask you don't get and ask is free
[23:23] <LeoBodnar> did it sound Chinglish? lol
[23:23] <mattbrejza> currently counting components on this board...
[23:24] <LeoBodnar> yeah :D use networks and bigger chips :D
[23:24] <mattbrejza> actually i could easily reduce component count with netowrks
[23:24] <LeoBodnar> and minimise BOM, components sourcing is the most tedious part of the whole thing
[23:24] <mattbrejza> currently has 0603 so the undergrads have a chance of soldering them
[23:25] <LeoBodnar> 1206 networks
[23:25] <LeoBodnar> both R and C
[23:25] <LeoBodnar> cheaper too
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[23:26] Action: Laurenceb_ has Fab a few hundred meters away
[23:26] <LeoBodnar> i did not really shop around as my designs are quite simple
[23:26] <Laurenceb_> http://www.tioga.co.uk/
[23:26] <mattbrejza> i have a cleanroom but no fab that near by
[23:27] <LeoBodnar> It's a nice touch that when they wave soldering stuff they put temporary Kapton stickers over unpopulated pin headers to avoid flowing them over
[23:27] <LeoBodnar> I guess it is assumed but it is one of the "crap I did not think of that" moments
[23:28] <mattbrejza> i think we'll get all the smd done for us, and let the UGs put the connectors and display on
[23:28] <mattbrejza> so only smd soldering
[23:28] <zyp> LeoBodnar, I thought everyone did selective wave soldering nowadays
[23:30] <mattbrejza> persumably you have to buy full reels of all the components
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[23:32] <LeoBodnar> Farnell has free re-reeling service
[23:33] <LeoBodnar> usually in multiples of 100 or 150
[23:33] <LeoBodnar> Digikey and Mouser charges a few quid for re-reeling but i think any number
[23:34] <mattbrejza> ah so thats what thats for :P
[23:34] <LeoBodnar> heh
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> I have a fab 4 miles away.
[23:34] <SpeedEvil> Does MEMsy stuff
[23:34] <LeoBodnar> if you ask nicely assembler will let you off with occasional cut-tape
[23:35] <LeoBodnar> and even bulk SMT parts from Farnell cretins
[23:35] <LeoBodnar> they'll just manually place them
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[23:45] <SpeedEvil> Actually - I guess water rockets
[23:45] <SpeedEvil> oops
[23:46] <LeoBodnar> hey! shush
[00:00] --- Tue Mar 4 2014