highaltitude.log.20140225

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[08:47] <gonzo_> was there a launch planned for today?
[08:53] <fsphil> yea there was one
[08:53] <fsphil> think they where going to overfill a balloon to avoid the sea
[08:54] <eroomde> it's raining like shit at their launch site
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[08:54] <fsphil> I'm not sure what that would be like, but it sounds awful
[08:54] <eroomde> smelly
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[08:55] <gonzo_> hope they have strong brollies
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[09:21] <LeoBodnar> morning *
[09:21] <cm13g09> Morning LeoBodnar
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[09:37] Nick change: Hes_ -> Hes
[09:38] <BalloonYOLO> Launching in the rain. Should be happening around 11/12
[09:41] <BalloonYOLO> Raining like shizen
[09:41] <ibanezmatt13> Is this an Up/Down or float?
[09:42] <Reb-SM3ULC> Name of balloon?
[09:43] <BalloonYOLO> Up-down
[09:43] <BalloonYOLO> EAL TEST
[09:44] <ibanezmatt13> Cool, good luck! Launching from somewhere in the mid/west of UK I presume?
[09:45] <BalloonYOLO> Yep from buckinghamshire, should be landing near cambridge
[09:46] <ibanezmatt13> Good stuff
[09:50] <fsphil> what frequency?
[10:02] <BalloonYOLO> 434.65MHz
[10:06] Action: db_g6gzh sets the controls
[10:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> Still on the map, Last Contact: -4832 hours ago
[10:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> USMAERO
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[10:11] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Morning
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[10:16] <Hade_> Hi guys
[10:16] <Hade_> Whos is the balloon in Bradford?
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[10:17] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> SPAVA that Upu
[10:18] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> on test
[10:18] <UpuWork> actually running on solar power
[10:18] <UpuWork> in the UK
[10:18] <UpuWork> lol
[10:19] <fsphil> unpossible!
[10:19] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> right got to go put the bins out afk
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[10:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> ping craag
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[10:28] <Hade_> Is it getting launched today? is there a web page with more info in the project?
[10:30] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: big big big panels
[10:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hade_, As above its on test see http://ava.upuaut.net/
[10:31] <fsphil> no it'll be a while before it gets launched
[10:31] <fsphil> requires a sunny day ...
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[10:32] <UpuWork> no Hade_ not getting launched today
[10:32] <UpuWork> Just testing
[10:33] <UpuWork> its got a 240maH Lipo on it and a solar panel
[10:33] <UpuWork> fingers crossed I won't have wrecked the lipo before I get home tonight :)
[10:34] <Hade_> Cool, thanks!
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[10:38] <eroomde> you've left your lipo unattended?
[10:39] <UpuWork> yup
[10:40] <eroomde> let us hope
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[10:45] Action: SpeedEvil imagines a roaring inferno 2 inches wide.
[10:46] Action: SpeedEvil needs to order some apple bits.
[10:46] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181318181818?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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[11:08] <Lunar_LanderU> hllo
[11:08] <Lunar_LanderU> +e
[11:08] <Hix> ello all
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[11:23] <cm13g09> hmm, don't you just love it when you accidentally win something on Ebay :P
[11:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> You mean you out bid Speedevil ?
[11:25] <SpeedEvil> I've only bought 900 items or so on ebay
[11:28] <cm13g09> Geoff-G8DHE: lol
[11:28] <cm13g09> The fun bit was I wasn't even trying....
[11:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Doh how do you NOT try when bidding ?
[11:29] <cm13g09> lol
[11:30] <cm13g09> it was a case of "I'll just put a bid on that and see - I'm not expecting to win it with that bid...."
[11:31] <db_g6gzh> I just put in the price I'm prepared to pay and then ignore it, I think that would count as not trying 8-)
[11:31] <cm13g09> db_g6gzh: yeah ;)
[11:31] <gonzo_> I find that can put off the prople who nudge the price up.
[11:32] <gonzo_> your ID comes straight back outbidding repeatedly, they sometimes just go away
[11:32] <mfa298> my favourite game is watching when people start bidding more than the item costs new.
[11:32] <db_g6gzh> Maybe. I wouldn't claim that it was any kind of cunning strategy.
[11:32] <mfa298> or the recent one where someone is trying to sell something used for more than you can get it new.
[11:33] <gonzo_> I tend to do very little bidding these days. mainly just use iot as an online shop
[11:34] <db_g6gzh> I've seen commercial sellers successfully sell items on buy it now for more than their normal shop price.
[11:35] <daveake> I usually do the buy-it-now thing. For a laugh, find something there are lots of, then sort by "highest price first"
[11:35] <daveake> Often there's something 10 or 100x the going price
[11:35] <db_g6gzh> crazy!
[11:36] <gonzo_> there is a lot of that about. they put up some inflated price items, just to be cheeky. A quick look at their other items would produce an identical cheaper one
[11:37] <gonzo_> any idea how the YOLO team are getting on?
[11:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nothing on the map yet
[11:38] <mfa298> they said 11/12 earlier so might be a bit early still
[11:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> 11/12 was last estimate
[11:47] <cm13g09> special.... £10 item, £17 postage :P
[12:01] <fsphil> "you only launch once"?
[12:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Doesn't appear to be a NOTAM for them today either ...
[12:03] <daveake> There was one for yesterday but not for today
[12:03] <daveake> I guess they ignored my advice :/
[12:08] <db_g6gzh> Hmm, suddenly appeared ...
[12:09] <db_g6gzh> no receiver at launch site ?
[12:09] <gonzo_> or the emails to caa have gone in the bit bucket
[12:09] <daveake> DM was out till today
[12:10] <daveake> And IME when that happens the rest of ausops leave it till he gets back
[12:10] <daveake> "HABDUINO" ... that's a tad lazy
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[12:12] <gonzo_> is that the default?
[12:12] <daveake> guess so
[12:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah I thought they were taking off from the old airfield
[12:13] <daveake> interesting prediction
[12:13] <mfa298> so much for landing near cambridge
[12:13] <mfa298> lets hope the predicter has a higher burst than reality
[12:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah on the waterfall
[12:15] <fsphil> oh dear
[12:15] <mfa298> snus predictor has burst @35km
[12:15] <fsphil> I'll fix that, what's the expected?
[12:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Green
[12:17] <mfa298> I think they said 3kg lift yesterday but no idea of baloon (that was on habhub)
[12:17] <gonzo_> Geoff-G8DHE what dial freq?
[12:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434651300 +1000
[12:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> nice and stable
[12:19] <gonzo_> thanks. I can see traces of sig, but too weak to be sure it was rtty at the mo
[12:20] <db_g6gzh> shift is about 520
[12:20] Nick change: Trollence -> Laurenceb
[12:20] <db_g6gzh> ah, you got it
[12:21] <mfa298> hmmm, bit nippy, Internal Temp: -127C
[12:21] <daveake> Do they have a chase boat waiting?
[12:22] <gonzo_> yep, switched to the yagi
[12:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/EAL-TEST_20140225/
[12:22] <fsphil> I'll put it at 30km
[12:23] <fsphil> that'll put them near Norwich
[12:23] <gonzo_> if you use the google maps set a location, could you use the big pin icon to pop the balloon?
[12:24] <fsphil> or near Steve's house
[12:24] <fsphil> there we go
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[12:25] <daveake> better :)
[12:26] <fsphil> this is assuming 30km
[12:26] <fsphil> but they should be save up to 32km
[12:26] <db_g6gzh> certainly looks more reassuring
[12:26] <fsphil> safe*
[12:26] <daveake> 6.7m/s ... they've gone for "let's make sure it bursts soon" then
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[12:31] <fsphil> the landing position is dancing around more than a microsoft file copy ETA
[12:31] <cm13g09> lol
[12:32] <fsphil> how's the signal from it?
[12:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Solid with me stable
[12:33] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: :D
[12:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/EAL-TEST_20140225/Capture.JPG
[12:35] <gonzo_> looking wobbly, spinning on the way up?
[12:36] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: pong
[12:37] <Geoff-G8DHE> craag, noticed with HABrotate that the error is always 0 and if the aerial is moved off position it doesn't appear to correct, but updates from the server make it into PSTRoatate and it follows if that makes sense ?
[12:37] <fsphil> it's near a boundary between wind directions
[12:37] <fsphil> it'll be getting bumpy shortly
[12:38] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: There's no way of it knowing where the antenna is currently pointing, so it assumes you're not messing with it and only asserts a position when it gets a new update.
[12:39] <Laurenceb> http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4829197&cid=46331527
[12:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right I wondered its just that when it reports "current Rotator error:.." I assumed it was getting the position back
[12:40] <craag> Ah no, that's for if the rotation for the new position is less than the hysteresis, then you'll get a bit of error as it won't move the beam yet.
[12:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah yes knowing that it now makes sense!
[12:40] <craag> I wish it could poll current position, but there's no documented way to get it out of pstrotate.
[12:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ask him he seems very obliging to add features!
[12:42] <craag> I have heard that! I will once I actually get some antennas up (possibly even with a rotator!) :P
[12:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> :-)
[12:42] <craag> THat way I can actually test the code myself :D
[12:42] <craag> Other than that, all working ok?
[12:42] <gonzo_> what is the data format for the anterotator control?
[12:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes seems fine http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/EAL-TEST_20140225/Capture.JPG
[12:43] <craag> gonzo_: It talks to pstrotator
[12:44] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: Awesome :)
[12:44] <craag> brb
[12:45] <gonzo_> ta
[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just got to code a "Back Flip" aerial position into the K3NG controller so I can track thru the North stops
[12:47] <G4AIU-Eugene> Can see and hear sigs in Wellington Som. - but no copy. There is a ripple on my trace.
[12:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> looks like turbelence now
[12:48] <daveake> Not overendowed with receivers today
[12:48] <craag> back
[12:48] <daveake> Mine are all packed :/
[12:48] <craag> dial freq?
[12:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you a date yet daveake ?
[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> 434.651.300+1000
[12:49] <mfa298> I've only got the 817 with it's rubber duck and indoors so not heard anything yet
[12:50] <daveake> Yes. Thursday.
[12:50] <daveake> Removal men start tomorrow morning
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Best of luck/fun whateer!
[12:50] <daveake> I'm surrounded by cardboard boxes
[12:50] <daveake> But the internet will be the last thing that gets disconnected :)
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Attach the boxes to balloons then!
[12:51] <daveake> Balloons are packed too :p
[12:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh no your going West not East!
[12:51] <daveake> yup
[12:51] <craag> heh
[12:51] <daveake> more land to aim at :)
[12:51] <craag> How long until the house-warming launch?
[12:52] <daveake> Not long. Have a commercial launch first
[12:54] <daveake> It's going to be nice to stream a launch over FTTC instead of 3G :)
[12:55] <craag> Oh yeah
[12:55] <craag> You mean we can actually identify people more than 5 feet away from the camera?
[12:55] <SIbot> In real units: 5 ft = 1.52 m
[12:55] <Reb-SM3ULC> daveake: how fast connection?
[12:56] <daveake> Dunno yet - the exchange doesn't get fibred tiill June
[12:56] <mfa298> I only believe the FTTC dates when it actually gets installed.
[12:56] <daveake> hah :)
[12:56] <daveake> Yes I heard that
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[12:57] <daveake> But 3G is 5MB there
[12:57] <daveake> so should be OK anyway
[12:57] <mfa298> my exchange now says 1/3/14
[12:58] Action: mfa298 suspects it will change to 1/6/14 in about 4 weeks.
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[12:58] <craag> This habduino has an LMT2 with a tcxo on it right?
[12:58] <craag> it's stabilised now, but was really small-fast-drifty
[12:58] <gonzo_> it's really strong now
[12:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> It hasn't shifted the Rx at all so has drifted less than ±20Hz
[12:59] <eroomde> it has just transitions into the jet stream
[13:00] <eroomde> the boundary might have been turbulent
[13:00] <craag> $$$HACUINO
[13:00] <eroomde> i wonder why they didn't change the name
[13:00] <craag> eroomde: Yeah it looked like it
[13:00] <eroomde> i did show them how
[13:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Change the default to "callsign here"
[13:01] <fsphil> free advertising
[13:01] <mfa298> it's still nice and cold up there: -127C
[13:01] <eroomde> lol
[13:01] <craag> lol mfa298
[13:02] <craag> Almost completely faded out here
[13:02] <fsphil> it's in the transition zone
[13:04] <eroomde> sounds like cheap 80's scifi
[13:04] <eroomde> or a room in an immigration detention centre
[13:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Aerials doing a 360
[13:04] <craag> It is right down at the edge of the rtlsdr bandwidth though, the bandwidth ends at .700
[13:05] <craag> lower frequences in future please!
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[13:08] <craag> Afternoon Steve
[13:08] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hiya Phil
[13:08] <Steve_G0TDJ> Just spotted Habduino on the map and started tracking
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[13:09] <eroomde> just occured to me that G7OGX has been around for a bit
[13:09] <Steve_G0TDJ> Hi Ed and everyone else
[13:09] <eroomde> afternoon STeve
[13:09] Shadow (b753c0ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.183.83.192.202) joined #highaltitude.
[13:09] <Steve_G0TDJ> Who's launch is HABDUINO?
[13:09] <eroomde> a company in westcott
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[13:10] Nick change: Shadow -> Guest48209
[13:10] <Steve_G0TDJ> Cool... Cracking signal here
[13:11] <Guest48209> Hey guys.. I was looking forward to find some help in defining a baseline simple system ..in which the mass is defined for different electronics used in a HAB
[13:12] <Guest48209> any suggestions?
[13:13] <craag> burst?
[13:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Looks like it
[13:14] <Guest48209> 100000 feet
[13:14] <SIbot> In real units: 100000 ft = 30 km
[13:14] <Guest48209> yea.. 30 kms.. and then it shud burst
[13:14] <craag> Guest48209: So you just want to weigh some payload components?
[13:15] <Guest48209> so any suggestions, as to how much the GPS should weight?
[13:15] <Guest48209> yes please
[13:15] <Guest48209> mass.. volume.. and power actually
[13:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Seeing another rtty signal about 1.8Khz low fading in and out
[13:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> smaller shift
[13:15] <craag> Guest48209: Right.. how much research have you done?
[13:16] <Guest48209> I have gathered data for various electronics.. and I wanted to compare it with a baeline
[13:16] <Guest48209> baseline*
[13:16] <craag> Guest48209: The choice of the components (and hence the mass,volume,power) is going to depend on your requirements
[13:17] <eroomde> burst at 20km
[13:17] <eroomde> v low
[13:17] <Guest48209> its basically designed for taking pictures, temp readings, pressure readings.. till a height of 30 km and then burst
[13:18] <eroomde> Guest48209: you could do all that in 500g easily
[13:19] <Guest48209> oh is it?
[13:19] <Guest48209> I could go up to 2 kg.. according to CAA restrictions right?
[13:19] <eroomde> no
[13:19] <eroomde> that's not a CAA restriction
[13:19] <eroomde> but it's better to be as light as you can for what you need to do
[13:19] <eroomde> and 500g is plenty for what you just described
[13:20] <Guest48209> I wanted a baseline.. and I wanted to compare various components with that baseline, and come to a conclusion with the best combination of components.
[13:20] <eroomde> sure
[13:20] <Guest48209> oh alright.. so can you help me in defining baseline numbers for each component?
[13:20] <eroomde> well you might want to fly a dslr or something
[13:20] <eroomde> then things get heavier
[13:20] <eroomde> but there's not a huge amount of variation in components when building a tracker
[13:20] <Guest48209> canon camera would be fine.
[13:21] <Guest48209> anyting with CHDK
[13:21] <Guest48209> anything*
[13:21] <eroomde> sure, i can help
[13:21] <Guest48209> Thanks. So how much should the GPS weigh? for a bseline
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> anywhere down to 10 or so grams
[13:22] <eroomde> first help is to change your nickname to something i'll remember by typing '/nick <a_nickname>'
[13:22] <eroomde> guest564873 makes you look like a borg
[13:22] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:gps_modules
[13:22] <Guest48209> I tried entering a diff one.. it told me it was taken.. how do I change it now?
[13:23] <cm13g09> Random question: Has anyone here ever seen a ParcelForce parcel with a tracking number beginning FWZF?
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> Guest48209: type /nick ElephantFritter
[13:23] <eroomde> yeah, 10g or so for a gps is fine. really i'd not be weighing individual components so much as estimating the mass of a tracker pcb, which will contain your gps, microcontroller, radio
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> It depends - there are several approaches.
[13:23] Nick change: Guest48209 -> Zo
[13:23] <eroomde> pick a nick that isn't taken
[13:23] <eroomde> cool
[13:23] <eroomde> Zo
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> A) raspberry pi or similar and hook everything to that, using existing modules.
[13:24] <Zo> yea.. short.. n easy
[13:24] <eroomde> not recommended ^
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> This tends to end up really heavy and expensive
[13:24] <mfa298> Guest48209: to some extent the weight will also depend on what skills you (or your team) have (or can aquire). The lightest payloads tend to be PCB's people have made themselves. If you're using pre-made pcbs (arduino, RPi and Breakout boards) things will be heavier.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> And possibly unreliable
[13:24] <Zo> I am using pre-made pcbs
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> Then you go to arduino - which can work. Then you go to arduino class hardware but programmed somewhat more sanely.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> And then you go to custom PCBs - or at least veroboard
[13:25] <UpuWork> what frequency is this flight on ?
[13:25] <craag> UpuWork: 434.653
[13:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK so who is $BARC
[13:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> $BARC,584,0,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0m,0
[13:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> $BARC,7
[13:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> <<2014-02-25T13:25Z RTTY @ 434649700+0852>>
[13:25] <UpuWork> something odd with my FCD
[13:26] <eroomde> a bear arduino board weighs 30g
[13:26] <eroomde> i'd budget the same again for a protoboard or whatever above to have the gps and radio
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[13:27] <Zo> oh i see..
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> Zo: http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/ - as an example of various approaches
[13:27] <Zo> so I will just consider the baseline to be 30 grams.
[13:27] <eroomde> that's for the microcontroller
[13:27] <Zo> okay..
[13:27] <eroomde> and please stop using the word 'baseline'
[13:27] <UpuWork> haha
[13:27] <eroomde> it's meaningless and reminds me of my time at ESA
[13:27] <SpeedEvil> For micro-balloons
[13:27] <UpuWork> I have a double signal both of which are "fuzzy"
[13:28] <Zo> lol.. okay..
[13:28] <eroomde> so, batteries, arduino, gps and radio, i'd say about 100g
[13:29] <Zo> okay, so now what about the gps and the radio?
[13:29] <Zo> or should I consider the gps, radio and microcontroller as one unit?
[13:29] <eroomde> maybe 150g actuall
[13:29] <eroomde> 4xAA in holder is about 75g
[13:29] <eroomde> the rest can be easily done for 75g
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> Lithium-iron AA is the general choice
[13:29] <eroomde> Zo: well, they're electronic componentns
[13:29] <SpeedEvil> it's nice and light excellent at low temperature, and high power
[13:29] <eroomde> so they need to be combined on a board somehow
[13:30] <eroomde> the arduino provides the microcontroller part
[13:30] <eroomde> (are you familiar with the arduino?)
[13:30] <Zo> yea
[13:30] <eroomde> and you can then knock up something to plug a gps and radio into the arduino
[13:30] <eroomde> say, veryboard
[13:30] <Zo> Alright..
[13:30] <eroomde> off the shelf solutions are available but you'd learn a lot less so no point
[13:30] <eroomde> unless you *need* to launch in the next 2 weeks
[13:31] <eroomde> and 99.9% of people who say that are lying or confused
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> And may not understand the legalities.
[13:32] <eroomde> BalloonYOLO: you're coming in too fast
[13:32] <eroomde> you sea l;evel descent speed is about 8m/s, i calculate
[13:32] <eroomde> that's way too fast
[13:32] <eroomde> have you had a parachute failure? what did you calculate the descent speed would be BalloonYOLO ?
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> You can't generally launch a 'normal' payload which will reach 20km+ legally without getting approval from the CAA
[13:32] <SpeedEvil> - if you're in the UK at least
[13:34] <eroomde> Zo: this might be instructive
[13:34] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/_media/general:hohoho-i-schematic2.jpg?cache=
[13:34] <eroomde> except no-one bothering with sms anymore, tend to just use the radio
[13:35] <Zo> Thanks eroomde
[13:35] <Zo> 4 AA batteries would suffice right?
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> Generally.
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[13:36] <Zo> okay.
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> AA lithiums are about 2Ah.
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> So that's - if you use a regulator - about 7 watt-hours or so at 5V or whatever.
[13:36] <daveake> 3Ah
[13:36] <SpeedEvil> A watt is a _lot_ of power if you're not running a camera.
[13:37] <eroomde> 3Ah
[13:37] <eroomde> http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf
[13:37] <SpeedEvil> And 7 hours is a reasonable flight duration.
[13:37] <Zo> I am using a camera.. I was thinking Canon Powershot A560
[13:37] <eroomde> good choice
[13:37] <eroomde> tried and tested
[13:37] <Zo> A570 IS is another choice
[13:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Anuybody else copying the signal on 434649395+0983
[13:39] <cm13g09> craag: ping
[13:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its North from me in Worthing Sussex
[13:39] <g8zbj_wayne> I am getting it $BARC,672,0,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0m,0
[13:40] <craag> cm13g09: pong
[13:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Getting really strong now
[13:40] <cm13g09> craag: don't worry, just did something stupid... found the answer I needed to correct it on RSGB
[13:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> But not decoding for some reason
[13:40] <Steve_G0TDJ> Nothing here Geoff
[13:40] <eroomde> Zo: whichever
[13:40] <craag> cm13g09: np :)
[13:40] <eroomde> whichever you can get more easily
[13:40] <eroomde> anything else is naval gazing
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[13:41] <Zo> Alright
[13:41] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: Nothing on the websdr in basingstoke
[13:41] <Zo> eroomde: what about the volume requirement for these components?
[13:41] <craag> Oh visual on the websdr, v v weak
[13:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/EAL-TEST_20140225/BARC%20signal%20in%20Worthing.JPG
[13:42] <eroomde> Zo: i don't know
[13:42] <eroomde> buy them and measure
[13:42] <g8zbj_wayne> Signal is 300 deg from Walsall
[13:42] <Zo> eroomde: sure.. thanks will do that. Thanks for all your help. Cheers!
[13:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> Someone testing but suprised to copy them if on the ground from here!
[13:43] <eroomde> always good to get the bits infront of you and lay them out and let your brain do it's spatial thing
[13:43] <Zo> hahahahah makes sense
[13:43] <eroomde> upu is they guy to talk to about getting the gps and radio at a good price in single quantities
[13:44] <UpuWork> hi
[13:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> g8zbj_wayne, Could that be off the back of a beam ?
[13:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its just that 300 degrees from you and 355 ish from me places way North!
[13:46] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: About 380 shift?
[13:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes thats the one craag
[13:47] <g8zbj_wayne> Yes it may be off the back of the beam. 370Hz shift and slow drift up the waterfall
[13:47] <craag> Visible on the websdr in basingstoke... someone testing on a hill in south downs?
[13:47] <craag> bbl
[13:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Just suprised by the strength and that its varying in strength almost like a flight
[13:47] <db_g6gzh> Oh, I can hear it here too
[13:48] <eroomde> db_g6gzh: what's the weather/flooding situation there?
[13:49] <gonzo_> I'm seeing $BARC too
[13:49] <db_g6gzh> dry, partial overcast, fields will be wet but the flood plain has emptied and roads open
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[13:50] <gonzo_> Geoff-G8DHE the distance between us and the local horison here, I can't see it being anything but a flight!
[13:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Quite! Right coying again 7bit data
[13:51] <db_g6gzh> gonzo_: I hear it in Cambs so I'm sure it's airborne
[13:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> all 0 data however
[13:51] <db_g6gzh> just not sending useful data
[13:51] <g8zbj_wayne> Sounds like a flight here. Strong signal and getting reflections off the usual local buildings.
[13:51] <db_g6gzh> $BARC,759,0,00:00:00,0.0000,0.0000,0m,0
[13:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> checksum also a 0
[13:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> odd
[13:52] <db_g6gzh> the index counter is the only thing that's correct
[13:52] <fsphil> please don't let it be that someone launched that
[13:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> steps up in freq as well every now and then
[13:53] <gonzo_> ditto here on that telem. definitly no crc
[13:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> <<2014-02-25T13:53Z RTTY @ 434648891+0990>>
[13:53] <db_g6gzh> the signal behaves like a flight, and with that coverage I can't see how it isn't up there
[13:53] <fsphil> Bracknell Amateur Radio Club?
[13:54] <db_g6gzh> eroomde: is there a chase team for EAL TEST ?
[13:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> $BARC ? B Amateur Radio Club ?
[13:54] <fsphil> ^
[13:55] <fsphil> Bristol Amateur Radio Club exists too
[13:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Baisngstoke, Bournemouth
[13:55] <fsphil> Bradford Amateur Rowing Club
[13:55] <fsphil> less likely
[13:55] <gonzo_> That's a +ve rx in midlands worthing and poole then
[13:55] <fsphil> anyone wit ha beam getting a heading on it?
[13:55] <gonzo_> thay would be /mm wouldn't thay?
[13:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> That has to be a flight with a problem
[13:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> 350 From Worthing
[13:56] <Geoff-G8DHE> 300/120 From Walsall
[13:56] <gonzo_> it's roughly north to me in poole. But the local horizon is pretty bad in that direxction. i get lots opf reflections etc
[13:57] <g8zbj_wayne> I've got two peaks 314degM and 200degM from Walsall
[13:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> There hasn't been any flight docs or payloads with that as a callsign previously it seems
[13:59] <db_g6gzh> fast disturbance on the signal now, almost like a burst
[13:59] <fsphil> CAPTIVE UNMANNED HELIUM BALLOON
[13:59] <fsphil> Bedford
[13:59] <fsphil> MAX HGT 1000FT AGL
[14:00] <fsphil> SIbot?
[14:00] <fsphil> 1000 feet
[14:00] <SIbot> In real units: 1000 ft = 305 m
[14:00] <fsphil> 305m would give it fair coverage
[14:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not a chance for me I have the South Downs to the North
[14:01] <db_g6gzh> maybe it got away 8-)
[14:01] Action: mfa298 was wondering if BARC was an alternative spelling for BRUS
[14:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> If its 314 from Walsall and 350 from me and North from Poole then its up country
[14:02] <gonzo_> would have to be very high for me to hear it to the north of me
[14:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oswestry Wrexham way ?
[14:02] <gonzo_> local horison is almost 10deg
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[14:08] <craag> Just got back in and BARC is quite strong now
[14:08] <craag> shame no gps lock
[14:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> fading for me now
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[14:10] <g8zbj_wayne> Strong now on 330degM
[14:10] <craag> faded for me
[14:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> just see it on w/f but not audible
[14:11] <mfa298> based on the size of the SPAVA horizon it would have to be higher than 300m for the various people hearing it (SPAVA was at 260m when I looked)
[14:12] <db_g6gzh> still got it but gatting weaker and has been steadily drifting in frequency for a while
[14:12] <gonzo_> almost gone here. And drifted a kc or so high
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[14:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> Gone for me as well
[14:13] <gonzo_> wonder if they were trying a leo?
[14:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> No way a floater, that was up/down
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[14:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right off for some lunch afk
[14:14] <g8zbj_wayne> I thought it was the local grammar school testing their balloon tracker
[14:14] <g8zbj_wayne> see you geoff
[14:14] <gonzo_> I meant, just launching and see who notices
[14:15] <gonzo_> ang new ground stations on space near that we don't recognise?
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[14:17] <g8zbj_wayne> Well that was a bit of excitement to a dull work day
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[14:23] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpSszDFcPhk high altitude pizza delivery (sorta)
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[14:26] <db_g6gzh> BARC just faded out here
[14:26] <Lunar_LanderU> fsphil: there is a notam for a tethered balloon?
[14:27] <fsphil> Lunar_LanderU: balloon and kites, just south of Bedford
[14:27] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[14:28] <Lunar_LanderU> I just recall that someone inquired about such a balloon for dropping sensors I believe on the mailing list
[14:28] <fsphil> we may never know
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[14:30] <fsphil> its BARC was worse than its flight
[14:33] <eroomde> what was BARC?
[14:34] <fsphil> mystery rtty signal
[14:34] <fsphil> with no gps lock
[14:34] <gonzo_> for me to hear anything up country, they must be 10km or above
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[14:35] <gonzo_> (I'll just add a belated groan to phil!)
[14:35] <fsphil> thanks
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[14:40] <fsphil> a quick google isn't returning anything relating to BARC, balloons or rockets
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[14:40] <eroomde> adamgreig: pgfplots is lovely
[14:41] <adamgreig> oh wow
[14:41] <adamgreig> that does look quitenice
[14:41] <adamgreig> not sure hwo convinced I am about using tex to do even more things :P
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[14:42] <eroomde> it's just a nice layer for tikz
[14:43] <eroomde> and tikz is lovely generally
[14:44] <adamgreig> ok
[14:44] <adamgreig> never actually used tikz
[14:44] <adamgreig> to date have always just used inkscape and pdf export
[14:44] <adamgreig> which has worked quite well
[14:45] <adamgreig> can definitely see the appeal of tikz
[14:45] <eroomde> tikz is really beautiful but has a bit of a learning curve
[14:45] <eroomde> pgfplots helps a lot in that it provides an api that looks far more familiar to other plotting programs
[14:45] <eroomde> but everything is rendered very pleasingly
[14:47] <adamgreig> how do you give pgfplots data?
[14:50] <eroomde> separate text file or you can embed the data in the macro
[14:50] <eroomde> it can happily plot functions too
[14:51] <eroomde> it will also make typset tables from dat files
[14:51] <eroomde> (!)
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[15:00] <adamgreig> that's quite nice
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[15:06] <g0pai_ian> Sibot?
[15:06] <g0pai_ian> 200 feet
[15:06] <SIbot> In real units: 200 ft = 61 m
[15:07] <g0pai_ian> Ah, I thought so. I was thinking a couple of days ago that Sibot was a pedantic user, but is instead a useful filter/bot
[15:08] <Mack> Hmm, not sure how I hadn't found this channel earlier
[15:08] <eroomde> welcome Mack
[15:08] <eroomde> we're pleased to find you
[15:08] <eroomde> g0pai_ian: it's a very useful bot
[15:08] <Mack> Weather dependent, our balloon will hopefully launch Friday :D
[15:08] <eroomde> it defends us against old men and americans
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[15:08] <Mack> Well, weather and software maturity dependent
[15:08] <eroomde> Mack: where are you located?
[15:08] <eroomde> and tell us about your payload!
[15:09] <Mack> Western New York
[15:09] <eroomde> state or city?
[15:09] <Mack> State
[15:09] <Mack> I'm in Buffalo now
[15:09] <Mack> And the payload is going to be measuring the radio noise above the area on a few bands
[15:09] <eroomde> ah cool
[15:09] <eroomde> i've been to niagara once
[15:10] <eroomde> that's all i can contributed by way of geographic pleasantry
[15:10] <eroomde> oh that *is* interesting
[15:10] <eroomde> measuring radio noise
[15:10] <Mack> The goal is to get a more accurate idea of what will be seen by a cubesat we're working on here
[15:10] <eroomde> what is the hardware?
[15:11] <Mack> Measurement-wise, a TI CC1101 and Microhard n2420
[15:11] <eroomde> Darkside here is doing a PhD that partly involves modelling the noise floor in different bands
[15:11] <eroomde> it's more to do with HF propagation though, I believe
[15:11] <Mack> The Microhard was originally going to be on the satellite, but was recently able to be de-scoped, so now we're just going to throw it on the balloon
[15:11] <eroomde> it'll have its day
[15:12] <eroomde> the cc1101 has an 8051 core right?
[15:12] <Mack> Some of them, but the one we're using for this isn't a SoC
[15:12] <Mack> So the data processing is happening on an Arduino Due
[15:12] <eroomde> ok fair enough
[15:12] <eroomde> that sounds a lot more sane
[15:13] <Mack> Yeah
[15:13] <eroomde> the dev tools for the 8051 core on some of the xx11xx parts have been known to make grown men (self included) cry
[15:13] <eroomde> cc11xx*
[15:13] <Mack> The 1101 that will plausibly go on the satellite will probably be one of the ones with an MSP430
[15:13] <eroomde> that'll be a lot nicer
[15:14] <Mack> Yeah, I don't mind MSP430
[15:14] <eroomde> their new fram parts look very interesting
[15:14] <Mack> It's actually somewhat pleasant to work with most of the time, once you get around the pain of Code Composer
[15:14] <eroomde> and the inherent hardness and low power probably lend themselves to cubesat use
[15:16] <Mack> The cubesat here is part of an Air Force program, and we have a review next Tuesday, so it's going to be quite the rush this weekend to get the data from the balloon into a presentation
[15:16] <Mack> So hopefully the weather stays favorable for a launch
[15:16] <Mack> But, being so far in advance, I'm sure it'll change a lot between now and then
[15:16] <eroomde> yeah
[15:16] <eroomde> if not, just launch hard and fast
[15:16] <eroomde> and burst low
[15:17] <Lunar_LanderU> hi Mack
[15:17] <Lunar_LanderU> sounds like an very interesting experiment
[15:17] <Mack> We're already looking at a 7m/s ascent
[15:18] <eroomde> oh wow
[15:18] <eroomde> not much overhead left
[15:18] <Mack> That will give us a nice path over a major city right now
[15:18] <Mack> But still bursting at 26km, which is high enough
[15:18] <Lunar_LanderU> are you interested in RF interference?
[15:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> The Habduino flight this morning http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/EAL-TEST_20140225/index.php?ind=0
[15:19] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks Geoff
[15:19] <eroomde> i don't think you'll get much above 7m/s in a practical way
[15:19] <eroomde> so, good luck
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[15:19] <Mack> Yeah
[15:19] <Mack> Even 5m/s would work
[15:19] <Mack> But then it's a long drive for recovery
[15:19] <Mack> So if we can feasibly do 7 and still get the data needed, that'd be much nicer
[15:20] <Mack> But that's something we'll find out morning of most likely
[15:20] <eroomde> what the payload mass and balloon type?
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[15:21] <Mack> 800g balloon, payload sub-2kg
[15:21] <eroomde> yeah, don't assume that, for example, the stated number of cubic metres of helium/hydrogen in the canister will make it into your balloon
[15:21] <eroomde> probably instead only about 80% or so
[15:21] <eroomde> helium or hydrogen?
[15:21] <Mack> Helium
[15:22] <eroomde> so by my calcs you need just over 9 cubic meters of helium
[15:22] <Mack> It will probably end up being a 5m/s ascent, which would work too
[15:22] <Mack> We should have at least that, though I don't know the exact amount left
[15:22] <eroomde> not sure what the bottle standards are uin the US, but in the UK you get the roughly-person-height ones with 9m^3
[15:22] <eroomde> so if you have one of them, you won't get more than about 7.5 into the balloon
[15:23] <eroomde> but that's still about 6.5m/s
[15:23] <Lunar_LanderU> the T50 or how they are called?
[15:23] <Mack> The CUSF calculator estimates ~6.32m^3
[15:24] <eroomde> for what ascent velocity?
[15:24] <Mack> Though that may be for 6m/s
[15:24] <eroomde> (used to run CUSF)
[15:24] <Mack> Which is what I was trying to put into it, but it seems to be rounding up to 6.96
[15:24] <eroomde> i'd just get a nominally 9m^3 bottle, dump the whole lot in, then see what happens :)
[15:26] <SpeedEvil> Wheeee!
[15:26] <Mack> I'll need to check how much helium is currently in the container
[15:26] <eroomde> yes do
[15:26] <Mack> It's definitely a bigger one than 9 m^3, but it's also not full
[15:26] <eroomde> if you're at threat of a sea-landing, get a fresh bottle
[15:26] <eroomde> one of those situations were scrimping is a false economy
[15:27] <Mack> The helium was donated by Praxair, which saved a ton of hassle
[15:27] <Mack> Because there doesn't seem to be anywhere you can buy helium here without an existing account other than party balloon helium
[15:27] <eroomde> well, if you know the internal bottle and can measure the pressure, easy peasy
[15:27] <eroomde> many/most here have switched to hydrogen
[15:27] <Mack> Sea-landing isn't an issue as much as great lake landing, but that's no better
[15:28] <eroomde> i forget how big the US is
[15:28] <Mack> http://i.mg.gy/HELtm.png
[15:28] <Lunar_LanderU> I got a short question on party balloon helium vs. Praxair
[15:28] <Mack> That's our current prediction, with a 167.5km range
[15:28] <Lunar_LanderU> the former one is the 95% one?
[15:29] <Mack> I'm not sure what the percentage is, but I know there's oxygen in the stuff for party balloons
[15:29] <Mack> And that breathing the pure helium to make your voice higher is a much worse idea
[15:30] <Mack> eroomde: Yeah, the last launch I was at did Hydrogen
[15:30] <Mack> But for that one all the logistics were done by EOSS, so this is my first launch
[15:30] <eroomde> i've definitely breathed some helium in my time
[15:30] <eroomde> and it was research grade
[15:31] <eroomde> that might explain a few things
[15:31] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[15:31] <Mack> It just makes you a lot more light headed :P
[15:31] <Lunar_LanderU> :) yea
[15:31] <Mack> Do you guys have any suggestions for tracking software?
[15:32] <gonzo_> I think they add the air because they know people will breath it
[15:32] <Mack> We'll be getting the location over APRS
[15:32] <eroomde> you can use dl-fldigi
[15:32] <eroomde> oh, go to #habhub
[15:32] <eroomde> give them the aprs callsign details
[15:32] <eroomde> then it can be plotted on spacenear.us/tracker
[15:32] <eroomde> and habhub.org/mt
[15:32] <eroomde> and you get the advantage of our real-time flight prediction software
[15:33] <Mack> Awesome!
[15:33] <Mack> I knew there was real-time prediction software, but I forgot what it was called
[15:33] <Mack> And then the EOSS people had something that I think was custom
[15:33] <eroomde> it's just the cusf predictor run every time a new telemetry packet comes in
[15:33] <eroomde> super simples
[15:34] <Mack> Based on the current prediction, we should have cell service nearly the whole time
[15:35] <Mack> Though even if not, there's a pretty vast linked repeater system here, so only one person really needs an internet connection
[15:35] <eroomde> for mobile itnernet?
[15:35] <Mack> Yeah
[15:35] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: you might like this
[15:35] <eroomde> back in the early days (mid 2000s when i first started) there was a group called ANSR - arizona near-space research
[15:36] <eroomde> their brains was a guy called Michael Gray, KD7LMO
[15:36] <eroomde> he made some really excellent flight computers, with all sorts of neat tricks
[15:36] <eroomde> sadly he was killed several years ago when he got knocked off his bike by a truck
[15:36] <Mack> :(
[15:36] <eroomde> one of his flight computers was this one, which did HF and VHF comms simultaneously
[15:36] <eroomde> http://ad7zj.net/kd7lmo/hf-aprs_hardware.html
[15:37] <eroomde> he did it in a cunning way with one DDS, by band-pass filtering one of the harmonic images (in VHF) from the zero-order-hold DDS
[15:37] <Mack> We were thinking of an HF beacon, but that's only if there's time left before launch
[15:37] <eroomde> which was 'nominally' doing the HF stuff
[15:37] <Lunar_LanderU> looks really great
[15:37] <Mack> We've already got the VHF for APRS, and 900MHz/2.4GHz for data measurement/downlink
[15:37] <Lunar_LanderU> sad story though :(
[15:38] <adwiens_KC0WYS> eroomde: didn't know he passed away :/
[15:38] <eroomde> it'll be 13dB or so down on the main image, but that's no biggies, so he just badnpass filtered it, amplified it up, filtered again, et voila
[15:38] <eroomde> adwiens_KC0WYS: yeah, it would have been around when you were last hear
[15:38] <eroomde> nearly a decade (!) ago
[15:38] <eroomde> here*
[15:39] <eroomde> well he was killed a bit after that
[15:39] <eroomde> beginning of 2009
[15:40] <Mack> How often does CUSF update the NOAA wind data?
[15:40] <eroomde> 4 times a day
[15:40] <eroomde> as soon as it comes out from NOAA
[15:40] <Mack> Have you ever tried running it offline?
[15:41] <eroomde> what do you mean?
[15:41] <Mack> Oh, there's a standalone verison on GitHub
[15:41] <eroomde> yes
[15:41] <Mack> eroomde: I mean running it from a laptop without internet connection
[15:42] <eroomde> it was first written as a command line app
[15:42] <Mack> But it looks like that is possible
[15:42] <eroomde> you'd just had the grib (forecast file) to it with a load of other data
[15:42] <eroomde> so yes, we had it running on a laptop on the chasecar
[15:42] <Mack> I'll probably do that then
[15:42] <Mack> And possibly have the car running it rebroadcast prediction over APRS
[15:43] <eroomde> you're lucky to have APRS :)
[15:43] <Mack> Yeah
[15:43] <eroomde> we had to invent the whole dl-fldigi thing because we can't use amateur stuff airborne
[15:43] <eroomde> just the 10mW 70cm ISM stuff
[15:43] <eroomde> but it does mean a lot more hams get involved just listening
[15:44] <eroomde> which is suprememly useful
[15:44] Action: Laurenceb has been looking at h.264
[15:44] <Laurenceb> it does look appealing in some respects for SSDV
[15:45] <eroomde> i was wondering that, though my ideal wondering was totally superceded by phil's nbtv stuff
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[15:45] <eroomde> but just generally, given a, say, 2.4kbps channel, what is the best video encoding
[15:45] <eroomde> where do you make the tradeoff between resolution, frame-rate, compression etc
[15:45] <SpeedEvil> modeling
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> At some point you need to drop down to a world model / cartoon
[15:46] <SpeedEvil> Actual bandwidth of a typical HAB scene is very, very low.
[15:47] <SpeedEvil> It just seems higher because of bogus information like pans and rotations.
[15:49] <Laurenceb> looking at video conferencing
[15:49] <Laurenceb> they manage <30kbps video
[15:49] <Laurenceb> with h.264
[15:49] <eroomde> kb or kB?
[15:49] <Laurenceb> kb
[15:50] <Laurenceb> error tolerance is a troublesome issue
[15:50] <Laurenceb> supposedly h.264 outperforms mpeg-2
[15:50] <Lunar_LanderU> Mack: in the meantime, a European tracker network has grown though, in the manner ed described
[15:51] <Lunar_LanderU> first, the netherlands and france became involved, then germany, the scandinavic countries, poland, slovakia and so on
[15:51] <Laurenceb> - outperforms in resilience agains error propagation
[15:51] <Lunar_LanderU> expanding with longer duration flights
[15:51] <Reb-SM3ULC> eroomde: how are the rules for 2.4 ghz ism? airborne ok?
[15:51] <Laurenceb> so scaling 480x600 @15fps to 48x60 @ 1fps
[15:51] <fsphil> error is a problem with h264 unless you have a high key frame rate
[15:51] <fsphil> which bumps up your bitrate
[15:51] <eroomde> Reb-SM3ULC: I beleive there's a slot
[15:51] <Laurenceb> thats 20bps O_o
[15:51] <eroomde> but the absorbtion in water is probably prohibitive
[15:52] <Laurenceb> wait wurt
[15:52] <Laurenceb> yes it really is
[15:52] <Laurenceb> but i guess FEC + it wont scale so well with resolution
[15:53] <Reb-SM3ULC> eroomde: it's 100 mW in .uk right? @2.4
[15:53] <fsphil> fec likes interleaving, which would increase latency -- possibly not an issue
[15:56] <eroomde> Reb-SM3ULC: don't recall sadly
[15:56] <eroomde> in there ^
[15:59] <fsphil> the nice thing about the analogue video is the brain does the FEC for me
[15:59] <fsphil> and it's rather good at it
[16:00] <x-f> it is good at image stabilisation, too
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[16:02] <SpeedEvil> And making shit up that seems to make sense
[16:02] <fsphil> it would be interesting to try it digitally though
[16:02] <SpeedEvil> naah. Brain in a jar.
[16:04] <Mack> eroomde: You can't use amateur stuff airborne there?
[16:06] <fsphil> annoyingly no
[16:07] <fsphil> but I'm constantly impressed with what 10mw on 434mhz can do
[16:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: any limits of parallell signals?
[16:08] <fsphil> don't believe so. a few payloads have used two channels
[16:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: I assumed there were some restrictions.. otherwise.. just stack x signal y Hz wide...
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[16:10] <fsphil> the documents don't seem to mention it at all
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[16:13] <Reb-SM3ULC> fsphil: just got the thought from combining 3x22MHz channels on wlan-device
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[16:16] <Lunar_LanderU> hm "Conference Mode has been enabled for this view; joins, leaves, quits and nickname changes will be hidden."
[16:16] <Lunar_LanderU> is that due to the channel or just by ChatZilla?
[16:17] <cm13g09> Lunar_LanderU: no idea.....
[16:17] <Reb-SM3ULC> 17:09 -!- DL1SGP_ [~felix@p5B043AAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #highaltitude
[16:17] <Reb-SM3ULC> i guess Zilla...
[16:18] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah that message came just after he joined
[16:19] <Lunar_LanderU> ah "Chatzilla automatically enables "Conference Mode" whenever a channel gets above 150 people."
[16:20] <cm13g09> lol
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[16:21] <db_g6gzh> 150 people? it's getting popular here, I may have to find a more obscure hobby
[16:21] <Laurenceb> heh
[16:21] <Laurenceb> hipster
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[16:22] <db_g6gzh> it is actually the most populous IRC channel I'm in
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[16:23] <Reb-SM3ULC> Lunar_LanderU: pretty neat. my android-irc does not do that..
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[16:34] <Lunar_LanderU> oh ok
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[16:42] <eroomde> db_g6gzh: number of payload builders is a much smaller subset
[16:42] <eroomde> join that club :)
[16:42] <UpuWork> who was it who wanted a Sonde amp ?
[16:42] <Lunar_LanderU> see you all later :)
[16:42] <UpuWork> Geoff-G8DHE ?
[16:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> here
[16:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes Sonde Amp
[16:45] <Geoff-G8DHE> Have you Rx back the faulty one, might still be in the hands of PO
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[16:51] <WillTablet> Saw hab mentioned briefly in RadCom
[16:51] <db_g6gzh> eroomde: I was just kidding really, but yes, I should give that a go.
[16:51] <UpuWork> PM Geoff-G8DHE
[16:51] <WillTablet> Was M6GTG or someoen
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[17:35] <Laurenceb> http://www.st.com/st-web-ui/static/active/en/resource/technical/document/datasheet/DM00103754.pdf
[17:35] <Laurenceb> interesting device
[17:37] <adwiens_KC0WYS> huh, that's pretty neat
[17:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> Could be handy for tuning the band when using those si446x chips ?
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[17:47] Nick change: number10_ -> numnber10
[17:50] Nick change: PE0SAT_ -> PE0SAT
[18:02] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
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[18:05] <Laurenceb> http://www.eevblog.com/2014/01/09/hp-err-agilent-has-a-new-name/#more-3370
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[18:18] <Laurenceb> http://boingboing.net/2014/01/06/high-end-cnc-machines-cant-b.html
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[18:44] <Babs____> Ping jcoxon
[18:44] <jcoxon> hey Babs____
[18:45] <Babs____> Hey - can I ask a ublox question?
[18:47] <Babs____> I've been looking through the protocols to understand them, have ucenter to generate the hex codes etc and can see how to get the flight mode hex code etc.
[18:48] <Babs____> When I try and do the same for the sentence modes and try to turn them off etc, I can replicate the hex codes in ucenter for all but the last three or so hex numbers
[18:49] <Babs____> Obviously the last two are check digits, so if the payload section doesn't match the check digit doesn't match
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[18:50] <Babs____> But I am wondering why they shouldn't match - do they differ over time as versions are updated ? My sense was that there was consistency across the chips (I guess I have a newer chip and newer version of ucenter than your code was generated on)
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[19:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
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[19:09] <jcoxon> Babs____, it should be consitent
[19:10] <Babs____> Hmmm, it's probably easier for me to just post a screenshot when I am in front of my laptop - let me do that now I know that I am definitely looking for consistency
[19:11] <Babs____> Thanks
[19:12] <Babs____> I imagine I am in the wrong menu but it is strange that the 7 or so categorisation hex numbers at the start are all consistent which sort of tells me I should be in the right place
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[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[19:36] <fsphil> evenin'
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[19:36] <daveake> 'nin'
[19:37] <gonzo_> sounds like a scooter revving up
[19:38] <gonzo_> did we ever work out who BARC were?
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[19:43] <fsphil> I wonder how often that happens. This was only noticed because enough people where listening on a nearby frequency
[19:45] <daveake> Speaking to Steve a while back, he reckons that known UKHAS launches account for about half of his balloon sales
[19:45] <daveake> No doubt most of the "unknown" ones use GSM or Sat
[19:47] <fsphil> mm
[19:47] <craag> I guess you might be able to unearth some by looking at the 'lack of payload doc' errors in the habitat logtail
[19:48] <craag> As they've probably forgotten to set it to offline at some point
[19:50] <gonzo_> we should have some off peak listners
[19:51] <gonzo_> keep an eye on blocks around the ntx2 freqs
[19:51] <gonzo_> waterfall on the cornet of the screen
[19:51] <craag> Something like matt's auto-tuning app, but that takes about 500KHz or so would be nice...
[19:52] <fsphil> only mention of BARC in the channel was in relation to Bracknell Amateur Radio Club
[19:52] <gonzo_> I did think about them
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[19:53] <gonzo_> but the sigs seemed to be to the west of midlands
[19:55] <fsphil> no notams in the area
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[19:56] <Willdude123> So the good news is I can do a US exam]
[19:56] <Willdude123> The bad news is it's in North Yorkshirwe
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[20:00] <Mack> I still have to figure out how to file this NOTAM, though it's not terribly necessary
[20:00] <Mack> Though I'm sure it's different with the FAA than in the UK
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[20:00] <fsphil> call current balloon notams are quite far north
[20:00] <fsphil> all*
[20:01] <fsphil> two near the lake district
[20:01] <fsphil> and two near Wolverhampton
[20:01] <fsphil> actually three near the last district
[20:01] <g0pai_ian> The problem is that people with radio experience get the idea of launching a balloon with telemetry, before they find you here. I had a meeting last Saturday that almost drained me of the will to live. I'm a curious type and did my research and have arrived here to adopt the UKAS community standards and promote cooperateration because I can see mutual benefits
[20:03] <fsphil> lovely part of the world Willdude123
[20:04] <Willdude123> fsphil, sarcasm?
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[20:04] <g0pai_ian> Mack, I'm sure that if you contact a local small airfield manager, they will be able to give you the next rung up on the ladder, possibly at ATCC level (below FIR) who will be able to guide you. Even small airfields will have some connection with generating NOTAMS from time to time, like if the airfield is to be resurfaced . . . :-)
[20:04] <daveake> Passport needed for USA or Yorkshire
[20:04] <daveake> And a translator
[20:05] <fsphil> Willdude123: no. it really is nice
[20:05] <g0pai_ian> You mentioned also USAF connections. Speak to a Base operations officer, he should be able to tell you more, even if he points you in the direction of the local Commcen.
[20:06] <craag> g0pai_ian: The main reason we push the UKHAS standard on people is that it's simple, and yet works even in really bad conditions.
[20:06] <fsphil> well we don't push it ... we strongly guide them towards it :)
[20:07] <Willdude123> UKHAS standard?
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[20:07] <craag> We certainly don't recommend the alternatives!
[20:07] <craag> Willdude123: rtty, $$$BALLOON..*.. etc
[20:08] <fsphil> also the distributed listener system
[20:08] <fsphil> which is the best part
[20:08] <craag> yes
[20:08] <Gadget-Mac> fsphil: Wolverhampton isn't 'far north' ;)
[20:08] <Willdude123> daveake, fsphil: it's not really the issue of translators and passports, my mum was born up north but is a naturalised southener now so I can probably understand it. I don't mind sitting on a train for a few hours, it's just my parents
[20:08] <Mack> g0pai_ian: Yeah, I just found this channel today, after all the telemetry was already setup
[20:08] <g0pai_ian> I see that Phil. My lot need PUSHING. It gains you a balloon to track and us trackers. I recognise where the expertise is and can work out the benefits to all concerned and like it a lot.
[20:08] <fsphil> difficult to tell from here sometimes. even yorkshire is south from me Gadget-Mac :)
[20:09] <craag> I mean we've had flights where the antenna got really bent on launch, and yet due to the sheer number of listeners, it was still tracked at short range across the UK all the way to landing.
[20:09] <Mack> We'll probably just keep trying the phone numbers on the local airport site, and if we can't get through oh well
[20:09] <Mack> NOTAMs aren't mandatory for this, just courteous
[20:09] <Gadget-Mac> fsphil: Any idea whereabouts around Wolves ?
[20:10] <g0pai_ian> Mack if you are a serving member of the USAF then you should be able to grow the connections without too much difficulty.
[20:10] <fsphil> Gadget-Mac: http://notaminfo.com/explain?id=203524
[20:10] <fsphil> one notam, two launch sites
[20:10] <fsphil> I've not seen that before
[20:10] <Mack> g0pai_ian: I am not. This is affiliated with an AFRL program
[20:11] <Gadget-Mac> fsphil: cool ta.
[20:14] <fsphil> one of the Lakes launches is a school
[20:14] <g0pai_ian> Thanks for that psphil, I used just to receive them. First overseas posting was spent on a key or a teleprinter working ICAO mobile ground to air and ICAO fixed teleprinter. Don't like FIRs. I popped in a slip, having not got the callsign right. Asked the kite for it but he pissed off. FIR told me the message was no good without a complete callsign. Had me calling for an hour. Kite was from up country in mid east 1967. "VHF c
[20:14] <g0pai_ian> Never missed anothe A/C callsign though.
[20:14] <fsphil> actually two are
[20:24] <Gadget-Mac> Ok, recommendations for a decent 70cms co-linear
[20:25] <Gadget-Mac> ideally not too big ;)
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[20:27] <Mack> Wow, so the UK doesn't allow ham radio in anything airborne?
[20:27] <craag> nope
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[20:30] <Mack> I wonder why, that seems annoying
[20:30] <g0pai_ian> Decent colinear 2m/70cm Watson W300 or W3000.
[20:31] <craag> It's a CAA thing apparently. It wasn't asked for, back when they didn't care so much, so virtually no chance of getting it now.
[20:31] <jcoxon> we don't need it :-)
[20:32] <Mack> Need it, no, but it's still a nice thing to have
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[20:32] <Mack> In addition to tracking, we've got data downlink running over amateur radio for this
[20:32] <Mack> And while the radio is compatible with ISM, the power levels necessary to downlink everything aren't
[20:32] <craag> It would be nice for WBTV downlink
[20:33] <craag> But then people have done that abroad now, so it's not very exciting.
[20:33] <craag> HF tracking would be good.
[20:33] <Mack> APRS tracking is nice
[20:33] <craag> Using high power to get some ERP on small antennas
[20:34] <Mack> Also if it weren't for time constraints, we probably would have had an HF beacon as well
[20:34] <g0pai_ian> The 10mW ISM limitation has produced a good result as witnessed by UKHAS supported activity. If 10W could be hefted, anarchy would perhaps prevail.
[20:36] <craag> 2MHz wide nPSK downlink with 50W, centred on 145.00 mwhahaha
[20:37] <craag> Or just 10W on 434Mhz, enough to jam remote car keys across half the country...
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[20:37] <g0pai_ian> It has produced a surgeons scalpel and is wielded to good effect from what I have seen in the last week or so. Kudos!
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[20:41] <g0pai_ian> 433.800MHz actually :-)
[20:41] <g0pai_ian> Wet day, busy car park, time to spare . . .
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[20:44] <craag> Heh, Anthony is the one who's cutting the batteries out of payloads at the landing site so he can get back into his car!
[20:45] <Mack> I guess it is a lot more dense there, so it could be a bigger issue
[20:46] <Mack> Here, as long as you stick to the common courtesy of no less than two minutes between transmissions, 10W won't congest the network too badly
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[20:47] <BaloonYOLO> Successful flight today, thank you to all those that tracked (Callsign Habduino)
[20:47] <craag> BaloonYOLO: Dug it out from the bottom of the landing crater?
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[20:49] <BaloonYOLO> Very easy find, in the middle of a field
[20:49] <craag> Oh looks like it slowed actually, seemed rather fast when I last looked.
[20:49] <craag> Cool!
[20:49] <craag> Well done on keeping it dry!
[20:49] <Upu> congrats :)
[20:49] <BaloonYOLO> Cheers
[20:49] <Upu> hope you got some nice pics
[20:50] <BaloonYOLO> Yeah hope so, checking tomorrow
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> hey BalloonYOLO
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> congrats!
[20:50] <BaloonYOLO> Thank you
[20:50] <BaloonYOLO> Is there any way we can have the flight path and details from spacenear.us saved
[20:51] <BaloonYOLO> ?
[20:51] <craag> BaloonYOLO: You can always get the flight data from here as csv, or kml: http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[20:51] <craag> And re-plot it in google earth or the like
[20:52] <BaloonYOLO> Ah thanks
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[21:00] <g0pai_ian> We will have an opportunity to test fly a package in a private aeroplane as an active passenger. The data to the tx would also be logged to SD card. Telemetry would probably be sketchy at best due to possible screening effects, but how acceptable is this as an idea?
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> BalloonYOLO, also Geoff-G8DHE makes nice Google Earth plots of each flight
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> I think he posted yours some time this afternoon
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[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> can check for you in a few minutes
[21:01] <g0pai_ian> I have a sked on 70cm FM just now, back in an hour.
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[21:01] <craag> g0pai_ian: GPS will be fine up there I think
[21:01] <Mack> BalloonYOLO: Congrats!
[21:01] <craag> g0pai_ian: Not sure what you're wanting to achieve though, other than checking that the altitude changes :P
[21:03] <gonzo_> ngs
[21:04] <Mack> Hmm, if I can get APRS-IS to RF working properly, I can have a server calculating prediction updates in realtime, then sending it over APRS to the chasing cars
[21:05] <Mack> That would be nice
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[21:08] <DL7AD> evening
[21:08] <Mack> Hello DL7AD
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[21:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> BalloonYOLO, The files here are a KMZ and an object movie to play with http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/EAL-TEST_20140225/
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[21:24] <aadamson> Upu, how come the transistor on the reset line of the Max7? Although it's never used in your code (other than at startup)... were you anticipating gps lockups?
[21:25] <aadamson> Oh, and what were the results of your batt/solar testing today, noticed it's not beaconing anymore?
[21:27] <Upu> no aadamson its a pchannel FET
[21:27] <Upu> used for turning the GPS module on and off for power saving
[21:27] <Upu> just not implemented it yet
[21:27] <Upu> results were good
[21:27] <aadamson> ah, on the reset line?
[21:28] <Upu> no direct to the power
[21:28] <Upu> battery got to 3.1V so I turned it off
[21:28] <Upu> but it did 12 hours on 240mAH
[21:28] <Upu> not even sure the battery was fully charged
[21:29] <aadamson> ah cool, any other load on it?
[21:29] <Upu> just the tracker
[21:30] <aadamson> btw, is your plan to release design info, or is it non-open source... no issue either way, just curious
[21:30] <Upu> well
[21:30] <Upu> its nothing that isn't out there already
[21:30] <Upu> not releasing it
[21:30] <aadamson> I guess I'll have to study your pictures a little more... one of the leads on the FET is on pin 9 the reset pin, course it's tied to pin 7,8 too
[21:30] <aadamson> yep, understood... no problem
[21:30] <Upu> as I'll just get too many questions
[21:31] <aadamson> each has their own interest
[21:31] <aadamson> and besides I'd aske 20 more million questions :)
[21:31] <Upu> reset is tied up
[21:32] <aadamson> oh, I didn't look at the fet pinout or know it was a fet, so that must just be the high side of the fet.
[21:32] <Upu> P channel
[21:32] <aadamson> I'm going to do something similar... going to use a dual p-fet and sel pins to turn on and off the adc reads for batt and solar.
[21:33] <Upu> I'll code it up eventually
[21:34] <aadamson> I'm going to try the TI PLL-1 part in place of a VCXO as well... we'll see, this should be interesting
[21:36] <aadamson> Well, best of luck and thanks for the couple lines
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[22:03] Action: ibanezmatt13 is designing the smallest tracker he's ever designed, and boy is it small...
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[22:06] <SpeedEvil> Is it leo class?
[22:06] <SpeedEvil> (I mean his payloads, rather than the same size as him)
[22:07] <ibanezmatt13> lol, probably not, but small for me. :)
[22:07] <ibanezmatt13> Small step up circuit, attempting the SI4064 with all 0402 components and the MU atmega328 package, so nice and small
[22:11] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[22:19] <g0pai_ian> craag: verification of general functionality. involve the part sponsor so that he gets to feel involved while he turns in his PPL hours for the year. As much PR as anything else, but check out pressure sensor etc. A dry test.
[22:21] <craag> g0pai_ian: If isn't costing you anything, then sure, sounds a great test!
[22:21] <craag> You might be able to pick up stuff from the ground as well
[22:24] <craag> Let us know and we'll see if we can pick it up :)
[22:24] <g0pai_ian> That had come to mind :-) I guess that you thought we were thinking of PAYING to have it flown . . . I'll leave helicopters to those that need it.
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[22:25] <g0pai_ian> That's the other thing, it would be an early test of getting things right. although as I said telemetry may be bitty due to screening effects. Hang it up like a fluffy dice perhaps.
[22:26] <g0pai_ian> Received Arduino Uno this morning and from Upu an NXT2B. Was going to buy two, but holding out for the agility mod.
[22:27] <craag> Yeah that would work, but even with it just sat in the plane, if it's the size I'm thinking of it would only need to reflect off the inside of the metal box to make it out of the window
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[22:28] <craag> Cool! Well let us know how you get on
[22:28] <g0pai_ian> True, I only talk to aspiring Full licence students about these things, but miss the obvious from time to time. Don't hold your breath but you will have plenty of notice.
[22:29] <craag> :)
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[22:39] <WillTablet> When I mentioned ham radio for when we go to the US on holiday, my dad said "We are there to see Mickey Mouse"
[22:40] <WillTablet> I will do the exam, if I can , just not sure where
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[22:43] <g0pai_ian> The US exams are available at the RSGB convention in (September?) by arrangement.
[22:44] <g0pai_ian> Now a large Mickey Mouse balloon, might make the trip worthwhile . . .
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[22:46] <WillTablet> g0pai_ian: going in summer
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[22:54] <g0pai_ian> Ah, well enjoy and hopefully you will get to do what you really want on the trip. My summer will bee busy too.
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[23:07] <WillTablet> g0pai_ian: yeah, amateur radio is just something to do while there, not the main event
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[23:53] <Prometheus> anyone doing SSB on 70cm?
[00:00] --- Wed Feb 26 2014