highaltitude.log.20140224

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[02:26] <qyx_> Laurenceb__: 640x480@15fps h264 is quite usable at 40kbps
[02:26] <qyx_> although it depends on the particular scene
[02:27] <qyx_> mainly its dynamics
[02:27] <Laurenceb__> not much dynamics on a balloon
[02:27] <Laurenceb__> interesting
[02:28] <qyx_> i would check lower but this is the lowest possible bitrate on my ipcam
[02:28] <Laurenceb__> this sounds pretty feasible
[02:29] <Laurenceb__> 64x48 at 1fps
[02:29] <qyx_> also webm cound do
[02:29] <Laurenceb__> 40*10^3/(10*10*15)
[02:30] <qyx_> i think it uses wavelet transform instead of dct
[02:30] <Laurenceb__> = 27bps
[02:30] <qyx_> hm, actually i dont know what h264 uses
[02:31] <qyx_> but when i was testing webp last time it gave much better results than jpeg for "low bitrate" images
[02:32] <Laurenceb__> yeah
[02:45] <qyx_> hm, it should be possible to do 8kbps gmsk in 12.5kHz channel
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[08:18] <fsphil> still with the splitting
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[08:59] <LeoBodnar> morning *
[08:59] <fsphil> morn!
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[09:07] <daveake> morning
[09:10] <fsphil> sunny here today
[09:10] <fsphil> should I be worried?
[09:11] <daveake> Does this mean that you've replaced all the windows with monitor screens displaying soothing images?
[09:12] <fsphil> possible someone else has replaced the windows. some kind of very high resolution 3D monitor
[09:12] <fsphil> though they could have found a better scene than the carpark
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[09:18] <cm13g09> fsphil: lol
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[09:52] <mfa298> hmmm, on the same note: I think it's warmer outside than inside here :(
[09:53] <mfa298> if only drivers on the motorway wouldn't rubber neck as much. I think the queue on the closed side of the motorway was shorter than the queue on the open side!
[09:57] <cm13g09> mfa298: lol
[09:57] <cm13g09> having fun again?
[10:00] <mfa298> Accident on the Hamble bridge (west bound), queues eastbound were back to at least jct5 (45 minutes for the first half of the distance, 15 for the other half!)
[10:04] <cm13g09> crikey!
[10:04] <cm13g09> meanwhile, you've no shortage of Pi, yes?
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[10:05] Action: cm13g09 thinks another Pi would be a good idea....
[10:06] <daveake> "TX Factor is a brand new series of high definition TV shows covering all aspects of the hobby which is amateur radio"
[10:06] <daveake> Can't wait :p
[10:07] <daveake> http://www.txfilms.co.uk/txfactor/index.shtml
[10:09] <cm13g09> lol
[10:12] <gonzo_> is there an episode on how to use soap??
[10:13] <cm13g09> daveake: perhaps you should float the idea of doing one episode on HAB :P
[10:15] <fsphil> I'm currently watching an episode of The Computer Programme, and old BBC programming show. I don't remember it but they should do it again
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[10:16] Action: cm13g09 is installing Samba on a RasPi
[10:16] <cm13g09> (remotely)
[10:16] <cm13g09> not sure this is sensible....
[10:17] <Reb-SM3ULC> prepare do dacne slow.. :)
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[10:29] <BalloonYOLO> Looking to launch tomorrow
[10:30] <BalloonYOLO> Weather looking ok
[10:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sounds good BalloonYOLO, where from ?
[10:31] <BalloonYOLO> Westcott, Buckinghamshire
[10:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah good one we should hear then! watibg for EAL TEST at the moment
[10:32] <BalloonYOLO> Yep thats us!
[10:32] <Geoff-G8DHE> Eh right so your not flying today ?
[10:33] <BalloonYOLO> Not today, looking a little too close to the north sea
[10:33] <BalloonYOLO> Tomorrow looking good though
[10:33] <daveake> cm13g09 That's easy :)
[10:34] <cm13g09> daveake: it is....
[10:34] <cm13g09> the fact it's running a video wall...
[10:34] <daveake> However, whether you want to use it after or not ...
[10:34] <daveake> I use it for my trackers so I can edit from the PC. Works just fine.
[10:34] <cm13g09> and I need to be able to copy videos onto and off it....
[10:34] <daveake> have fun :p
[10:34] <cm13g09> mm
[10:34] <cm13g09> yeah
[10:35] <daveake> I have copied video files off (post flight); can't remember how fast/slow that was
[10:35] <cm13g09> there is a reason I'm getting a 512MB Model B
[10:35] <cm13g09> as an upgrade from the 256MB one
[10:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> BalloonYOLO, Might be worth a note on the list so that others know, remember its on the calendar at present so need to change the documents I suspect
[10:37] <BalloonYOLO> ok sure
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[10:38] <mfa298> cm13g09: winscp or there's an alternative thing that gives you a drive letter over scp/sftp on windows
[10:38] <cm13g09> mfa298: needs to "just work" in the majority of cases :P
[10:39] <cm13g09> (and/or potentially be domain joined!)
[10:39] <BalloonYOLO> Edited flight doc to launch tomorrow
[10:40] <BalloonYOLO> (EAL TEST)
[10:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> It will need to be approved again I think ?
[10:41] <daveake> erm, your NOTAM is only for today you'll need to call the CAA sharpish
[10:42] <BalloonYOLO> CAA said either monday or tues launch was fine
[10:42] <daveake> You might want to check the exact wording on the permission sheet
[10:42] <gonzo_> what does your notam document say, that is the important bit
[10:43] <gonzo_> </snap>
[10:43] <daveake> :)
[10:43] <daveake> If the permission sheet says "24th - 25th" you're fine (regardless of whether they got the notam side right)
[10:43] <daveake> though it's best to have both correct of course
[10:44] <daveake> I'd check the sheet then call the CAA. Now.
[10:46] <BalloonYOLO> The permission sheet covers our dates
[10:46] <daveake> cool
[10:46] <daveake> I'd want them to issue a notam for tomorrow though
[10:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Shame about the pilots!
[10:46] <daveake> You know, to keep light aircraft away :p
[10:48] <fsphil> notams attract aircraft in my case
[10:48] <daveake> ditto
[10:48] <daveake> but at least it's their fault if something goes wrong
[10:49] <daveake> I usually get at least 1 that flies *directly* over the launch site
[10:49] <daveake> I assum they're hoping to see it fly
[10:49] <fsphil> yep, same
[10:49] <cm13g09> heh
[10:50] <gonzo_> do you get many calls about notams?
[10:50] <cm13g09> a classic case of "If we didn't tell people, there probably wouldn't be a problem, but the moment you tell people, they all turn out!"
[10:50] <fsphil> for me the average is about 1 call per notam
[10:50] <gonzo_> i've only had one issued, for two weekends. And got one call
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[10:52] <gonzo_> the wx on the launch day was so shitty I doubt amything small would have been flying. Unless they have sea planes at Bourneomouth airport!
[10:52] <fsphil> they might have now
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[10:55] <gonzo_> apparelyly they had some drainage probs there (on the business park, not the airfield proper), the specialists were called in and found that the contractors who put the drians in had just installed drain covers and manholes. But no connecting pipework.
[10:55] <daveake> Sometimes get no calls sometimes 4-6
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[10:55] <daveake> Depends on the weather :p
[10:55] <daveake> gonzo_ whoops!
[10:55] <gonzo_> the drainage all passes pressure check! so was signed off
[10:56] <gonzo_> the airspace must be busy by your place (old place?)
[10:56] <gonzo_> BTW have you moved yet dave?
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[10:57] <daveake> T-2 days
[10:57] <daveake> Yeah, hoping for fewer calls at the new launch site :)
[10:57] <gonzo_> you all boxed up?
[10:57] <daveake> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[10:57] <gonzo_> (not you personally)
[10:57] <daveake> working on it :)
[10:57] <gonzo_> one of those moves!
[10:58] <daveake> There's some reverse TARDIS effect
[10:58] <daveake> boxes filling up quicker than the rest of the house is emptying
[10:58] <gonzo_> space cancer
[10:58] <daveake> anyway, I have an appointment with some cardboard boxes ...
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[10:59] <gonzo_> possibly crap that gets piled into cupboards has so much gravity that it distorts space-time. (And the cupboard)
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[11:04] <fsphil> the dave paradox
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[11:05] <daveake> boldly going where no habber has gone before
[11:06] <daveake> (near Wales)
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[11:06] <daveake> Well aside from stratodean
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[11:39] <BalloonYOLO> What is the other HAB channel want to let everyone know about EAL TEST launch tomorrow
[11:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> #habhub
[11:39] <fsphil> you may mean the ukhas mailing list
[11:40] <fsphil> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/ukhas
[11:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Document approval on #habhub , let eveyone know via the forum above
[11:40] <gonzo_> (btw, does anyone use the announce mail group?)
[11:40] <daveake> before or after?
[11:40] <daveake> oh, the *new* group
[11:40] <daveake> nope
[11:40] <gonzo_> hehe, or not at all of ot's leo
[11:41] <daveake> Is anyone a member aside from me?
[11:41] <gonzo_> I joined it
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[11:42] <gonzo_> never seen any traffic
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[13:13] <jarod> need your guys' help: http://x264.nl/dump/ourwhat.mp3 <-- what does he say? Our ... is 9 instead of 11 ?
[13:19] <fsphil> are there even words there?
[13:19] <g0pai_ian> Reporting system Readability Signal strength and Tone (RST) no need for Tone as not working CW. Obviously receiving OK so forget the Readability, Sig strength on a scale 1 to 9.
[13:20] <g0pai_ian> The military response to "Radio Check" if all is Good Readable, is actually RGR, which is self evident, nuff said.
[13:20] <craag> 'Pue Bee' is what I hear
[13:21] <craag> Clearly an acronym of some kind.
[13:22] <craag> But having not spent much time listening to that kind of thing, I have no idea.
[13:23] <g0pai_ian> You certainly don't want Bee Pue on you . . . yellow rain. Had a couple of newly washed cars looked like Dresden after the bombing. It was late September and the guy had washed the cars, moved them a bit clipped 20ft leylandi and the bees found the sap delicious, so emptied their bowels on vehicles and tucked in - funnneeee
[13:23] <SIbot> In real units: 20 ft = 6.10 m
[13:28] <fsphil> I've had a listen to pilots and I really don't understand what they're saying
[13:28] <fsphil> it's just gibberish
[13:29] <eroomde> i think it's more a demonstration of the entropy in human speach
[13:29] <eroomde> in normal conversation you're used to how echancges work, and you still get the information
[13:29] <mfa298> at least if you listen to pilots / military they should use the same phonetics everytime.
[13:29] <g0pai_ian> From the sound of it it is ATCC traffic, brief and to the point. (I was wrong) "Amsterdam this is N46 RQB 9 711" , The ground station repeated back the 9 as it was the main point. If it was wrong the AC would have corrected him.
[13:30] <eroomde> if someone changes the rules and speaks in an unexpected way (like pilots) then your probabalistic model of what's happening isn't very useful
[13:30] <mfa298> compared to some hams who seem to just use a lucky dip approach each time they use a phonetic.
[13:30] <fsphil> wonder if they do that in day to day life on the ground
[13:30] <g0pai_ian> Agreed, and nothing worse than swapping the phonetic every time you use it
[13:30] <fsphil> "Sir can I take your order?" "Pizzatomatoeandcheesenoonionsandacoke"
[13:31] <eroomde> or people infront of me when i get a coffee and a coffee chain
[13:31] <craag> yes mfa298, I still wonder of the sanity of the guy I worked on VHF NFD last year, using "Honululu" as a phonetic.
[13:31] <eroomde> people don't so much order as perform some kind of vocally-percussion modernist recital
[13:31] <fsphil> I have to use Victoria instead of victor
[13:31] <g0pai_ian> Military voice cct, with daily changing tactical callsigns. Spot the Local Service airwoman from Scotland
[13:31] <eroomde> 'macca-flacca-hucca-mucca-frappa-wappa-tic-tic-achino'
[13:31] <fsphil> because when I say it, it sounds like Fictor
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[13:38] <gonzo_> the phonetic (no. 2?) was chosen so that the shape of the words would be distinct
[13:38] <gonzo_> even if the vocalisation was lost
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[13:39] <eroomde> in rocket testing we skip '5' when doing a countdown over the radio
[13:39] <eroomde> just incase it sounds like 'fire!'
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[13:41] <g0pai_ian> A few years ago Birmingham City Council's use of the standard NATO phonetics substituted Zebra and Igloo because it was felt to be more PC . . . Hmmm
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[13:43] <eroomde> to placate all those people who find india offensive?
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[13:46] Action: SpeedEvil ponders an offensve alphabet.
[13:46] <g0pai_ian> To placate those that think too much about trivialities. Too much imagination from jobsworths
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[13:47] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
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[13:51] <fsphil> language is full of traps
[13:51] <g0pai_ian> What's the generally accepted radio range with balloons on 434MHz when using 7 to 10 element yagi at the groundstation?
[13:52] <fsphil> up until the earth or buildings get in the way
[13:53] <fsphil> easily 600km if the line of sight is there
[13:53] <fsphil> using the normal slow data modes
[13:53] <daveake> or 1km if someone shorted the aerial
[13:53] <fsphil> yes
[13:54] <fsphil> or 10km-ish if the aerial falls off
[13:54] <daveake> yup :/
[13:54] <daveake> In my case, 10km out to sea :/
[13:55] <g0pai_ian> Thanks. wasn't sure how much path loss came into it in clear space. Best not to dwell on broken antennas and incompatible connectors
[13:56] <fsphil> a yagi is likely overkill for most chasing
[13:56] <fsphil> unless there are problems
[13:56] <craag> g0pai_ian: slow rtty gives us so much link budget that pathloss isn't really an issue.
[13:56] <fsphil> all my chases have been done with a 1/4 wave vertical magmount on the car roof
[13:57] <g0pai_ian> Fine Phil, I realised that 50 Baud would give better range than say 300. Nice to know that the 1/4 wave whip is up to it in most cases.
[13:58] <fsphil> my colinear will track most flights up to 400km, and sometimes a bit further
[13:58] <fsphil> I think upu managed nearly double that on his colinear
[13:58] <craag> With a 7-10 element yagi you could probably get 300 baud perfectly fine at the limits of LOS.
[13:58] <UpuWork> 690km I think
[14:01] <g0pai_ian> What's the protocol when building a tracker and testing the telemetry/checksum. Is there a sandbox to submit a sample data sentence to for verification purposes or is it down to brain and mkI eyeball?
[14:02] <craag> dl-fldigi will check the checksum for you
[14:02] <craag> (the box above goes green if it's correct, red if it's not)
[14:03] <craag> Then you can create a payload doc on habitat to tell it how to parse your telemetry sentence, and try uploading.
[14:03] <craag> There's a log at http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/ where you can see if it's parsing correctly.
[14:03] <craag> And if all is good, it should appear on spacenear.us/tracker !
[14:04] <mfa298> the only real protocol with testing when it actually uploads to spacenear.us is don't do it during a flight.
[14:04] <SpeedEvil> Otherwse, nobody really cares about sane testing
[14:05] <fsphil> yea don't go mad and draw words on the map Darkside
[14:05] <craag> Just be prepared for everyone to suddenly know exactly where you live :P
[14:05] <g0pai_ian> Rgr, that makes good sense. Wasn't wanting to make spurious telemetry (in the future) that's good to know too SpeedEvel. Thanks Phil and fsphil.
[14:06] <g0pai_ian> What's that famous phrase, "Knock the door!".
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[14:07] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[14:07] <craag> G'day Lunar_LanderU
[14:07] <Lunar_LanderU> how are you?
[14:08] <craag> I'm good thanks, just pinged another pcb off to mitch :)
[14:08] <g0pai_ian> The learning path will be a little slow, but already I'm getting a lot of the general idea quite quickly. Listening here is also pretty informative. Just got to add a bit of filtering at times :-)
[14:08] <craag> you?
[14:08] <Lunar_LanderU> yay
[14:08] <Lunar_LanderU> fixed an issue with my board
[14:09] <Lunar_LanderU> also I am trying to figure out if EAGLE has a similar "unrouted connections remaining" counter as KiCAD
[14:09] <mattbrejza> press ratsnest
[14:09] <mattbrejza> it says at the bottom
[14:09] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[14:09] <Lunar_LanderU> Ratsnest: Nothing to do! it says
[14:10] <mattbrejza> board finished :)
[14:10] <fsphil> hah
[14:10] <UpuWork> lol
[14:10] <mattbrejza> well initial route finsihed, now to decide it could be better layed out, so rip it all up and start again :)
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[14:19] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks :)
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[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> ah well, this is 2.0 you see
[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> 1.3 was the version I wanted to hand in to mitch, then I received some comments on how to compact it
[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> that night I backed up the files and ripped it up :=)
[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[14:21] <DL7AD> good afternoon
[14:21] <Lunar_LanderU> hi DL7AD
[14:21] <DL7AD> Hi Lunar_LanderU
[14:22] <g0pai_ian> General feeling Eagle or DesignSpark? I imagine that either has an initially steep learning curve. Libraries being a major hurdle to get sorted out.
[14:22] <UpuWork> Eagle
[14:22] <UpuWork> as most of the libraries are already done
[14:22] <craag> g0pai_ian: It's a steep learning curve, lots of things to be aware of for the first flight. My first payload launch was just a pico, but I took everything to the launch site I thought I could possibly need, and then had a moment of butter-fingers and launched my only balloon without the payload attached :P
[14:22] <g0pai_ian> Spoken with authority. Good afternoon
[14:22] <craag> +1 for eagle
[14:22] <g0pai_ian> And many thanks by the way.
[14:23] Nick change: lilafisc1 -> lilafisch
[14:23] <UpuWork> https://github.com/Upuaut/Eagle-Libraries/blob/master/Ava.lbr
[14:23] <UpuWork> http://zupertails.be/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/127a2824_eve-online-learning-curve.jpeg this but replace Eve with Eagle
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[14:23] <craag> ^^ upu's library, sparkfun lbr is also useful, and farnell have eagle footprints for most of their stuff now.
[14:23] <UpuWork> oh yeah Farnell libraries...
[14:24] <UpuWork> are interesting to say the least
[14:24] <UpuWork> you get the feeling they are designed by someone who's never seen a PCB or the component
[14:25] <craag> They can be weird
[14:25] <eroomde> i am saving a very large bucket of range and scoren for the key who generates farnell eagle libraries
[14:25] <eroomde> rage*
[14:25] <craag> Some are scripts that you run in a library to create the part..
[14:25] <eroomde> scorn*
[14:25] <eroomde> the anger makes me typo
[14:25] <UpuWork> I don't have the picture I sent to eroomde
[14:25] <craag> And the silkscreens are plain random.
[14:26] <UpuWork> but it was called farnellshit.jpg
[14:26] <eroomde> the footprints are ok sometimes
[14:26] <eroomde> the problem is nothing that's been identified above
[14:26] <eroomde> it's that the symbols are shit
[14:26] <eroomde> shit beyond your wildest dreams of shit
[14:26] <eroomde> shit in a way that makes you vomit in your mouth when you see them
[14:26] <UpuWork> Just trying to remember the component I sent you
[14:26] <Lunar_LanderU> you mean that for example there is an IRF MOSFET that had silkscreen on the pads?
[14:26] <UpuWork> so as you can see Ava yay, Sparkfun Yay, Farnell not so yay
[14:26] <eroomde> i have some screencaps on my dropbox of what farnell gave me and what i modified it into
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[14:27] <eroomde> ok, so this is a differential amplifier
[14:27] <eroomde> one is what farnell sent me, the other is what i modified the symbol into
[14:27] <eroomde> you have to guess which is which
[14:27] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/hpewzex3fyp5m6j/farnellshit.png
[14:27] <g0pai_ian> NTX2B etc
[14:28] <UpuWork> NTX2 , ublox and other random stuff is in ava.lbr
[14:28] <UpuWork> https://github.com/Upuaut/Eagle-Libraries/blob/master/README
[14:29] <Lunar_LanderU> Ava.lbr is awesome
[14:29] <Lunar_LanderU> thank you very much UpuWork :)
[14:30] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: thanks
[14:30] <UpuWork> welcome Lunar
[14:30] <Lunar_LanderU> that really looks crappy
[14:31] <g0pai_ian> I notice Upu, that you have been very busy this past week, lots of useful code and stuff added to your website. It makes me feel that I have arrived on the scene at a propitious time.
[14:31] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: for what?
[14:32] <eroomde> g0pai_ian: the chance of success has been monotonically increasing since 2006
[14:32] <g0pai_ian> For it being a much easier development path for me.
[14:32] <UpuWork> tbh g0pai_ian its been quite active for about 3 years now never seems to calm down :)
[14:32] <eroomde> but everyone whose hung around here has succeeded, I think
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: the symbol in the window to the right
[14:33] <Lunar_LanderU> the pin distribution looks strange and so on
[14:33] <eroomde> what about it?
[14:33] <eroomde> ah yes
[14:33] <eroomde> correct
[14:34] <eroomde> that's the fanrll suplied one
[14:34] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah, I assumed that
[14:34] <Lunar_LanderU> the OpAmp on the left looks much better
[14:34] <eroomde> they don't seem to think their amplifiers should use the amplifier symbol convention
[14:34] <Lunar_LanderU> standard symbol
[14:34] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[14:34] <g0pai_ian> HAB could be life changing for me . . . Was at a meeting on Saturday about the project and got a distinct impression that I had learned a lot in the previous week. to say that I almost lost the will to live was palpable. Clueless is a word that came to mind.
[14:34] <eroomde> who are you working with g0pai_ian ?
[14:35] <eroomde> i find being totally out of one's depth to be the most exciting part
[14:35] <eroomde> although you sort of need one thread to grab onto to get stuck in
[14:35] <Lunar_LanderU> I spent some time correcting silkscreens to move them off the pads, as mitch told me that his factory will not print silkscreens if there is silkscreen on pads
[14:35] <g0pai_ian> RAYNET Group, name ommitted to protect the guilty. Project promoter needs both hands and still can't find his . . .
[14:36] <eroomde> nice
[14:36] <eroomde> sandwell to unprotect the guilty?
[14:38] <g0pai_ian> I see that you put in a few hours for DIRNSA, or GCHQ . . .
[14:38] Nick change: wrea_ -> wrea
[14:40] <eroomde> qrz
[14:40] <Laurenceb__> http://spatulatzar.com/fly_plane/
[14:42] <g0pai_ian> Yes, I missed that just a bit. So you will be aware that I'm into aviation big time!
[14:43] <UpuWork> your picture on qrz.com g0pai_ian looks like you're fixing a CCTV camera in a swimming pool :)
[14:47] <LeoBodnar> does Farnell even have Eagle libraries?
[14:47] <g0pai_ian> Pool is near Madrid, separate photo background. The bees in the "fly_plane" link above are unfortunately wasps. Bees have black legs.
[14:50] <Lunar_LanderU> XD!
[14:50] <UpuWork> Yes LeoBodnar
[14:50] <UpuWork> for some parts
[14:51] <eroomde> footprints are usually usable, synbols are garbage
[14:51] <eroomde> generally
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> if you use somebody's libraries be both know you are asking for it
[14:53] <Laurenceb__> heh
[14:53] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: do you use eagle?
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> *sometimes this includes your own
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[14:53] <LeoBodnar> not proud of it
[14:53] <Laurenceb__> heh
[14:57] <g0pai_ian> I seem to prefer the ANSI standard ones, the IEEE symbols do my head in. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logikgatter#Typen_von_Logikgattern_und_Symbolik
[14:58] <g0pai_ian> It't the diagram that's significant. I wasn't smart enough to separate it out. Afterthought!
[15:00] <g0pai_ian> First impression is a voltage regulator on steroids. It just looks ugly,
[15:00] <g0pai_ian> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:74LS192_Symbol.png
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[16:02] <fsphil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26325934
[16:03] <fsphil> kaboom
[16:04] <Lunar_LanderU> wow
[16:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> 6 months ago ...
[16:06] <fsphil> yea spotted that
[16:06] <fsphil> wonder why it took so long to get reported
[16:08] <LazyLeopard> I vaguely remember something being reported at the time, but the BBC's taken an RAS PR about a paper in the RAS journal...
[16:09] <fsphil> I remember the nasa one being reported
[16:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> See the timeline here http://mnras.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/02/19/mnras.stu083
[16:09] <SpeedEvil> Likely data being looked at later
[16:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> just slow getting thru it seems ..
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[16:10] <LazyLeopard> It's (presumably) a peer-reviewed paper. I'd be worried it's not taken long enough... ;)
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[16:44] <aadamson> All this PCB talk :)... diptrace now has eagle import/export if you decide to go there... get the beta, the 3d stuff is nice and it now includes step file support so you can get all the objects from http://www.3dcontentcentral.com/
[16:44] <aadamson> learning curve was pretty non-existant expecially where you can, if you want, import all your eagle libraries, etc
[16:45] <aadamson> I elected not too, because hooking up the 3d to them while not difficult, wasn't automatic... I just went head long into diptrace... for now anyway
[16:45] <aadamson> and yes there is a *free* version with similar capabilities as eagle has
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[17:00] <daveake> here we go again
[17:01] <x-f> we stay, they go
[17:01] <daveake> the chosen ones
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[17:06] <Lunar_LanderU> oh
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[17:14] <number10_> am I still here
[17:14] <aadamson> I know 2 days ago, freenode was having another DOS attach, not sure if still happening or not, but that is what was causing all the netsplits... forced or unforced
[17:15] <craag> Yeah still ongoing ddos I heard
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[17:15] <aadamson> yeah, was just checking the twitter feed and it appears so and some network stability issues it appears and perhaps related
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[17:16] <fsphil> wonder if it's the spy agencies again
[17:16] <craag> They've been working hard to mitigate it, and I assume some of that is swapping bits of the network out
[17:16] <Laurenceb__> some of the main admins fell out
[17:17] <craag> It's not like they have a maintenance window..
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[17:18] <craag> irc is probably the best thing that ever happened for spy agencies
[17:19] <craag> Everyone being paranoid about using ssl connections, and then 'xxAnonSkillz' is an ssl-connected bot conected from nsa.com
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[17:22] <mfa298> or they find the one person on the channel that didn't connect with ssl - or just read the public logs so many channels have
[17:23] <craag> Yeah I poked my head into the anon channels several years ago, and there was a guy kicking everyone who wasn't using ssl.
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[17:31] <WillTablet> Hello
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[18:46] <steve_2e0vet> Does anyone know any decent rf electronic channels on irc
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[18:49] <steve_2e0vet1> lets see if my broadband will last more than 30 seconds this time
[18:49] <steve_2e0vet1> does anyone know any decent rf electronic channels on IRC
[18:54] <jededu> I am having a problem with this antenna http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/ant.JPG it works perfectly as long as its not near the tracker as soon as I attach it to the payload the signal goes to pot what am I doing wrong
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[18:55] <fsphil> overloading the receiver
[18:55] <jededu> How ?
[18:55] <ibanezmatt13> Was just about to say something similar
[18:56] <jededu> Cool at least there is a reason whats the fix ?
[18:56] <craag> I'm guessing you're using an rtlsdr receiver?
[18:56] <fsphil> if the signal is too strong some receivers will overload, particurlarly the rtlsdr
[18:56] <craag> Move them further away from each other
[18:56] <fsphil> but also the original funcube dongle
[18:56] <craag> Put the payload in the next room, and all should go back to normal
[18:57] <fsphil> it does mean your antenna is working fairly well at least :)
[18:57] <jededu> when it is set 12 inches away from the raspi tracker I can decode all day long no errors
[18:57] <jededu> with rtl-sdr
[18:58] <jededu> if i put the raspi in the box above the antenna I get errors all over the place
[18:59] <craag> One is with the antenna connected, the other is not?
[18:59] <jededu> no both connected
[18:59] <craag> huh ok
[19:00] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFDkj2JtyA
[19:04] <jededu> It will run like this all day long http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/a2.JPG
[19:04] <jededu> No errors
[19:05] <jededu> I am using an active GPS would that be it
[19:06] <jededu> No i tried that forgot
[19:06] <daveake> What errors?
[19:07] <jededu> I cannnot decode mostly garbage
[19:07] <jededu> and the signal is weaker
[19:07] <daveake> Ah, so receive errors?
[19:07] <jededu> Yes
[19:08] <daveake> Just by moving the Pi ?
[19:09] <jededu> Yes I have a box 140mm x 140mm on top of the ground plane non conductive material as soon as I place in in there problems occur
[19:09] <steve_2e0vet1> forgive me i am going to ask a non HAB related question!!!
[19:10] <daveake> jededu Doesn't make sense.
[19:10] <steve_2e0vet1> consider a remote control socket on 433.92Mhz when you pair the transmitter to the reciever what determines the codes that come out of the transmitter is it a pre-programmed chip or software written
[19:10] <jededu> Short antenna lead 300mm
[19:10] <daveake> Shouldn't be seeing errors in the same room with any sort of antenna
[19:11] <jededu> I know ive tried all configs its odd as soon as I seperate the components its fine all checksums are good
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[19:13] <daveake> When you get the errors, how does the signal differ visually from when it works?
[19:14] <jededu> the peak in SDR# is shorter by about 30% and wider
[19:15] <mclane> how long are the wires between your NTX2 and the sma socket?
[19:17] <jededu> Now there are no wires the socket is mounted on the board
[19:17] <mclane> ah ok; the photo looks different ;-)
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[19:18] <jededu> http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/b1.JPG
[19:20] <g0pai_ian> I may have this wrong, buy With the RPi above the ground plane you get errors, and below all is well. If that is so, then again overload. Below the ground plane it is to a degree screened from the antenna. Proximity is the problem.
[19:20] <mclane> ok, that looks fine
[19:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> steve_2e0vet, The ones I have are just a single chip, the code has a fixed block, followed by a random generated block, followed by a simple 1/2/4/8 bit address,
[19:21] <g0pai_ian> Regarding front ends. I used to run a hand held with an external antenna. I progressively increased the height of the antenna with proportional results in and out. Then I got to a point where the handheld was receiving mixes well off frequency, because there was no decent front end on the rx. No exactly comms rx quality
[19:22] <Geoff-G8DHE> When the Rx is is put in learn mode it just stores the fixed block and the random block and hen uses the address code for relevant number of circuits
[19:23] <jededu> Ill take some screenshots working and not
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[19:27] <g0pai_ian> Question: On the tracker, I see a circle, with diameter, on the coast the width of Poland, within this circle there are footprints of individual balloons. What is represented by the larger circle and what does the size of the original balloon footprints represent, please?
[19:27] <Reb-SM3ULC> :)
[19:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Blue circle is the 0degreee horizon
[19:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> green is the 5 degree circle
[19:28] <Reb-SM3ULC> I guess that question requires an answer on the page, probably the most popular question.. :)
[19:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> you should hear a Tx somewhere between the Blue and Green circles unless your gear is super good and can receive over the horizon
[19:28] <fsphil> it tells you if you hover the mouse over the circle
[19:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> or supe poor when you don't hear it at all!
[19:29] <g0pai_ian> Thanks VM, I'll go and have a hover :-) I probably fit in latter class!
[19:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> I can't hover since the change of API the mouse stays as a grab handle
[19:30] <fsphil> I appear to be lying.
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[19:30] <fsphil> just tried it
[19:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> It used to work
[19:33] <g0pai_ian> I see the zero and five degree circles, but I refer to the one that is that stretches along the coast of Poland intersecting the borders of Lithuania and Germany - BLUE
[19:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thats the circles from SP3OSJ who is flying at 6550m at present so bigger circles
[19:35] <g0pai_ian> Not centred upon any of the three balloons within it, with their individual circles/footprints
[19:35] <g0pai_ian> Rgr, thanks Geoff I like a mystery solved
[19:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Do you mean the thicker bullseye which is the expected lading spot ?
[19:39] <g0pai_ian> No, it looks like it is SP3OSJ. it just didn't look centred on any and didn't realise that a single balloon would have the two footprints visible - didn't seem obvious - at first :-)
[19:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> They are only aprroximate I understand )
[19:40] <fsphil> the blue circle is a good indiciator if you can receive it
[19:40] <fsphil> if you have a nice smooth horizon
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[19:41] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:41] <fsphil> ahoy there
[19:41] <g0pai_ian> So, with an inverted 1/4 wave groundplane, it theoretically beats a 5/8 groundplane antenna due to the lower (higher - it's upside down) radiation angle? Not really a serious question!
[19:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup
[19:42] <fsphil> too much gain on the transmitter would be good for people at a distance
[19:42] <fsphil> but not much help for the team chasing it
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[19:44] <fsphil> it's amazing how weak the signal gets when you drive under the payload
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[20:03] <g0pai_ian> Could "almost" wish for a dipole under a few thousand feet?
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[20:05] <g0pai_ian> In the picture earlier, the vertical radiator looked fairly solid, intended to point downwards? will it not likely be driven into the payload on a bad day?
[20:05] <craag> You could use a dipole, but constructing the balun, feed, etc is more hassle than it's worth
[20:05] <g0pai_ian> On landing of course!
[20:06] <craag> We discourage solid downwards pointy stuff, for the reason that it could get driven into something/someone it lands on.
[20:06] <fsphil> eee
[20:06] <mfa298> most people use fairly thin bits of wire supported in a drinking straw for the antenna parts
[20:06] <craag> But yes, it could get driven into the payload, which would be safer!
[20:06] <fsphil> just thinking about that is painful
[20:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its usually a wire in a straw, so less strength than it appears - not a good idea to poke a slate off a roof!
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[20:08] <mfa298> if it's http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/ant.JPG that you were talking about, that looks to be the standard wire in a straw method.
[20:09] <mfa298> the standard (thought) tests would be are you happy to throw the payload down the stairs and would you be happy for someone to drop the payload on you from a first story window.
[20:10] <craag> The antenna will get a bit bashed up on landing, but if you have a good idea of where it's landed, that shouldn't be an issue.
[20:11] <fsphil> the one advantage of landing a tree. you still get a good signal
[20:11] <daveake> haha
[20:11] <craag> lol yes
[20:12] <daveake> I got one 3 miles away on landing ... I suspected a tree (as you do) but it was on the side of a hill, and we were on the side of another hill with a clear view of the area
[20:13] <fsphil> I'm not sure how far away I was from my tree landing one
[20:13] <kd2eat> My balloon chase vehicle is loaded with an extension ladder, and also a pellet gun, if I have to try and shot it down from a tree. lol
[20:13] <kd2eat> Oh, and a pole saw.
[20:13] <fsphil> but it's odd seeing the payload stop while still at 400m ASL
[20:14] <fsphil> yes I should have had a saw with me
[20:14] <daveake> Or 1.5km, in Austria
[20:14] <fsphil> lol yea
[20:14] <fsphil> that one wins
[20:14] <daveake> Er no :)
[20:14] <daveake> I think my Spanish one was slightly higher :)
[20:14] <g0pai_ian> What do you do with all the regular crap that fills up vehicles - no not family and freiends - stuff . . . It looked to be a very strong straw . . . lol
[20:14] <fsphil> oh yes
[20:15] <fsphil> forgot about that one
[20:15] <daveake> It was something like 20m difference
[20:15] <daveake> I call it a draw
[20:15] <fsphil> both mountain landings recovered
[20:16] <g0pai_ian> How do you get to know who owns the land when you have travelled 200m to pick up your package at 2am - man with shotgun!
[20:16] <Upu> hmm didn't I win that one daveake ?
[20:16] <fsphil> fight fight
[20:16] <daveake> lol
[20:16] <daveake> I thought I did :)
[20:16] <daveake> go grab the logs :)
[20:16] <Upu> not much in it :)
[20:16] <daveake> nah, it was very closed
[20:16] <daveake> -d
[20:17] <fsphil> nice contrast of weather between the two
[20:17] <daveake> Mine was probably less of a trek
[20:17] <daveake> oh yeah
[20:17] <daveake> very hot
[20:17] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/radim-5.png 1582m
[20:17] <daveake> You can imagine how many times Lester had to stop for drink or smoke
[20:17] <Upu> haha
[20:17] <fsphil> we should have made an icon for lester
[20:18] <fsphil> just a cloud of smoke
[20:18] <mfa298> when's the next Lohan launch (/me assumes there will be another one)
[20:18] <Upu> http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz181/wooddragon9/British/cockneywanker.jpg ?
[20:18] <Upu> I'm sorry he's a nice chap really
[20:20] <fsphil> photobucket never works for me
[20:20] <fsphil> always get a blank image
[20:20] <daveake> April 5th
[20:21] <daveake> test
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[20:21] <fsphil> unless it works, then it'll be the first flight
[20:21] <fsphil> there are no failures, only tests :)
[20:22] <mfa298> so someones got almost 6 weeks to sort out tracker symbols :p
[20:23] <daveake> No, these are rockety tests
[20:23] <daveake> No plane
[20:23] <daveake> June/July probably for that
[20:23] <g0pai_ian> What are the long odds on getting a package back from Khazakstan?
[20:24] <fsphil> very low
[20:24] <fsphil> unless you where chasing it
[20:24] <fsphil> or had someone local chasing it
[20:24] <fsphil> but just randomly being picked up, that's even unlikely in the UK
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[20:26] <aadamson> you guys doing this pico stuff, got a couple of questions if appropriate?
[20:26] <Willdude123_> This amazon primeair thing looks cool. Balloons would be a cooler way of getting people's packages tho
[20:26] <g0pai_ian> Maybe there is a Saragasso sea equivalent on land for lost balloons
[20:26] <Willdude123_> I should build a drone that can rendezvous with an amazon drone and fight it
[20:27] <fsphil> this amazon drone thing will never take off
[20:27] <daveake> ha
[20:27] <jcoxon> aadamson, go for it
[20:29] <aadamson> :)... was patiently waiting :)... Ok so it looks like either the TPS6120x or the LTC3526x, if you power it with 1.5v looks like the best you could expect at 3v3 is 100ma... bout what you all experience?
[20:29] <g0pai_ian> Your goodies will be the responsibility of Amazon until delivered - that would be fun. FPV robber drones everywhere. Amazon optimistic but unreal
[20:29] <aadamson> Anything any better to look at?
[20:29] <jcoxon> aadamson, oh never wait, just ask
[20:29] <aadamson> *besides* going to 1.8v vcc
[20:29] <fsphil> yes rule #1 of #ha, don't ask to ask :)
[20:30] <aadamson> #2 better to repent than ask permission?/
[20:30] <jcoxon> aadamson, with the TPS6120x i think you'll achieve more then 100mA
[20:30] <jcoxon> enough to boot a GPS
[20:30] <aadamson> from the curves I looked at just barely... maybe 120ma...
[20:30] <aadamson> Just wanted to make sure I was thinking about this right.
[20:31] <jcoxon> going 1.8v is a good thing
[20:31] <aadamson> I'm going off the deep end, just because I want too. stm32l1, si4463 vcxo, ubox gps, temp from either stm or to92 part
[20:31] <aadamson> and a couple of other things
[20:32] <aadamson> and the problem with 1.8 on the stm is only 4mhz or 16mhz instead of 48...
[20:32] <aadamson> I can go up to 2v and get a little better
[20:32] <aadamson> not that I need all the horse power I just like the part
[20:33] <aadamson> if I do this right, geofencing to select mode and support for rtty, afsk, and mfsk
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[20:34] <Babs____> Ping upu or jcoxon...
[20:34] <Upu> hi Babs____
[20:35] <aadamson> What are you running for output on the 4460's? I'll assume not 13-16db which I think is there max (the 4463 is 20)
[20:35] <Babs____> Hey upu - do you know much about the ublox proprietary protocol?
[20:35] <aadamson> at 20 on the 4463, it's 70ma of draw I believe
[20:35] <Upu> a little whats the question ?
[20:36] <Babs____> I'm deciphering each of the commands sent to it in the hardware serial sketch on the wiki
[20:36] <Upu> ok
[20:36] <Upu> best thing to do is grab ucenter
[20:36] <Babs____> And I think I am basically there using the ublox spec document (which is massive)
[20:37] <Upu> the protocol one
[20:37] <Upu> yes its pretty large however the commands are organised
[20:37] <Babs____> Yes exactly
[20:37] <jcoxon> aadamson, i'm sorry to say i don't have 4463 etc
[20:37] <Upu> so basically UBX-CFG-NAV5 for example
[20:37] <Babs____> So I can decipher how it tells the chip it is sending its message etc, what type of message and the check sum and that is all fine
[20:38] <aadamson> oh, that's ok, I'm just wondering if you turn down the 4060's that you are using?
[20:38] <Babs____> I can even see what length the "payload" part of the string is
[20:38] <Upu> the messages have set format
[20:38] <Upu> ah well this is why its much easier to grab ucenter
[20:38] <Upu> and click view -> messages
[20:38] <Babs____> What is confusing me is how you determine what variable goes in the payload string
[20:39] <Babs____> Does ucenter decipher it?
[20:39] <Babs____> *variableS in the payload string
[20:41] <Upu> Babs____ : https://join.me/970-606-648
[20:41] <chrisstubbs> every time i forget to burn the clock fuses and wonder why my rtty sounds like slow morse
[20:41] <Babs____> Hey upu - I'm away from the laptop
[20:41] <Upu> ah ok
[20:41] <Babs____> Let me have a look on ucenter and see where I can get to, I didn't know about it in that way before
[20:42] <Upu> As an example : http://i.imgur.com/pqh15yF.png
[20:42] <Upu> setting airborne mode
[20:42] <Upu> the command to be sent is shown
[20:42] <Babs____> Hah! Ok cool
[20:43] <Upu> ping Geoff-G8DHE
[20:43] <Upu> your habamp is fixed will be returned tommorrow
[20:43] <Babs____> I have been doing a bunch of hexadecimal translation to try and find some patterns
[20:43] <Babs____> Duh babs
[20:43] <Upu> lol
[20:44] <Upu> its just a command header, the command, the payload a check sum
[20:45] <Babs____> Just for that example, what is the specific setting that removes the altitude barrier?
[20:45] <Upu> yes thats setting dynamic model 6 aka Airborne <1g mode
[20:45] <Babs____> I presume it is the <1g but that feels more like an acceleration
[20:46] <Babs____> So is dynamic mode 6 defined anywhere as removing the alt locking barrier? I couldn't see it in the spec sheet
[20:46] <Upu> Used for applications with a higher dynamic range and vertical acceleration than a
[20:46] <Upu> passenger car. No 2D position fixes supported.
[20:47] <Upu> yep
[20:47] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/u-blox7-V14_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_Public_%28GPS.G7-SW-12001%29.pdf
[20:47] <Upu> page 2
[20:47] <Upu> lists all the various maximums
[20:47] <Upu> in which dynamic model setting
[20:47] <Upu> note why I switch back to pedestrian model below 1000m
[20:48] <daveake> <cough>
[20:48] <Upu> haha
[20:49] <Upu> reality is it doesn't make much difference
[20:49] <daveake> perhaps some different logic next time :)
[20:49] <Upu> but if the extra accuracy is there I'll take it
[20:49] <Upu> not MY fault a 2km high hill got in the way :)
[20:49] <Babs____> Ahh ok - I was looking under the protocols later in the document on the basis it said "you don't have to read it from
[20:49] <Babs____> Start to finish"
[20:50] <Upu> ublox are incredibly well documented
[20:51] <Babs____> It is astounding what they pack into that chip in terms if flexibility
[20:51] <Babs____> If it were backed by a private equity firm we would have cut back on that a long time ago
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[20:51] <Babs____> Lat, long and altitude only
[20:51] <Babs____> None of this ECEF or SCEF nonsense
[20:52] <Babs____> God bless technical people
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[20:54] <Upu> you can do all sorts of stuff
[20:54] <Upu> some of it even works
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[20:56] <Babs____> Arf
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[20:57] <Babs____> And in terms of all the settings, once it has no power or battery back up, it just goes back to default?
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> Willdude123_, what I wanted to ask
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> was it easy to study for the HAM test?
[20:58] <Upu> yes
[20:58] <Upu> pedestrian mode
[20:58] <Willdude123_> Lunar_Lander, foundation yes
[20:58] <Upu> hence spot the people who don't set it right :)
[20:58] <Willdude123_> Intermediate not so much
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> I found the tech part of the german foundation exam really easy
[20:58] <Babs____> Just want to check that when I mistakenly send it a command that asks it to output the number of sugar puffs in a packet rather than switch it to flight mode, that I have some ability to recover my error
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> it's second semester physics
[20:58] <Lunar_Lander> basically
[20:59] <Willdude123_> Lunar_Lander, you going for an English license?
[20:59] <Upu> Babs____ you can set and verify it
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> no, german first, but I have to find time
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> they'll only do exams if there are enough people and stuff
[21:00] Action: mikestir needs to pick an intermediate callsign
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[21:03] <g0pai_ian> pick several intermediate 2E0 callsigns in case the one you want it allocated. saves you getting rubbish that you wouldn't want
[21:04] <daveake> I ended up with 2E0LTX (LaTeX)
[21:04] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:04] <mikestir> yeah, I just went for a random foundation one. I'll probably spend more time looking for a decent full one.
[21:04] <daveake> Back to RPI now :)
[21:07] Action: mfa298 just got what he was given (would probably have been a long wait for anything else)
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[21:09] <aadamson> upu the max7 ok at 1.8v?
[21:10] <Upu> 7c
[21:12] <aadamson> ya ok, and you lose the txco on it as a result it appears... just found the datasheet
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[21:13] <kd2eat> Speaking of the Ublox. Upu, do I have to do anything special if I wire up an Active antenna? I put one on there with the resistors and inductor called for in the hardware guide, but the chip was blind. Didn't see anything. Not sure if I also need to send a software command to enable the active antenna?
[21:13] <Upu> no should just work but only if you get the right inductor
[21:13] <Upu> 10 ohm resistor and an inductor with a SRF ~ 1.5Ghz
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[21:14] <kd2eat> Hmm. I'd better check the inductor datasheet. Thanks for the idea.
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[21:20] <kd2eat> OK. SRF is 2000 on this inductor. Hmm
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[21:22] <Upu> is this Pecan ?
[21:22] <kd2eat> Ya Pecan4 clone.
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[21:23] <kd2eat> It appears I used the wrong inductor entirely. lol. The schematic has a 27nh on it (which has that 2ghz SRF) but I'm pretty sure I grabbed the wrong inductor. I think I put a 56 on there. My strip of 27's is untouched. doh!
[21:24] <kd2eat> I've got one of my boards working with the chip antenna, but another just like it does not work. Sees satellites, but won't lock. I tried to switch to the active antenna, but then it was TOTALLY blind.
[21:26] <Upu> the one I use is 33nH
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[21:30] <kd2eat> Hmm. The hardware manual calls for a 27, which is what I'm using.
[21:31] <kd2eat> Impedence seems right in the spec, though the SRA is listed at 2000 Mhz.
[21:31] <Upu> I think it specifies the SRF
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[21:33] <kd2eat> It doesn't seem to, unless I have an old version of the Hardware Integration Manual.
[21:34] <kd2eat> Oh, never mind, I was misunderstanding the impedence spec.
[21:35] <kd2eat> Anyway, I'll start over by putting the right inductor on there. lol.
[21:36] <Upu> helps :)
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[21:40] <chrisstubbs> cheapo v5 is alive :D
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> yay
[21:41] Action: chrisstubbs jumps on the max7 bandwagon a little late
[21:41] <Lunar_Lander> xD!
[21:42] Nick change: MichaelC3 -> MichaelC
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[21:59] <fsphil> there's a bandwagon?
[22:00] <Lunar_Lander> maybe it carries the GPS units in reels
[22:00] <fsphil> hah
[22:03] <Willdude123_> Got someone from the club who is a VEC to enquire about me doing an American exam
[22:04] <Lunar_Lander> how can you do a foreign exam anyway?
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[22:12] <Willdude123_> Lunar_Lander, they have people all over the world who can administer them
[22:13] <mfa298> what's the benefit of doing the USA exam. I'm not sure you gain that much extra by it.
[22:13] <Willdude123_> mfa298 going there
[22:13] <mfa298> Historically I think it was potentially a cheaper way of getting licensed (you did the USA exam then got it converted to a UK license)
[22:13] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:13] <Willdude123_> Want to talk on W4WDW
[22:14] <mfa298> Check the license options, for their more basic license I think you're more limited than the UK foundation (only CW on HF bands from memeory for the lowest level)
[22:15] <Willdude123_> Well WD4WDW
[22:15] <Willdude123_> TBH I'm not going to take loads of equipment
[22:16] <Willdude123_> I only want a tech as that's all I need to use my handy
[22:16] <mfa298> you may also find odd issues with UK/EU radios for VHF/UHF - Bandplans are different in places so you might be outside of what the radio covers for TX.
[22:18] <Willdude123_> I wonder if this aerial will be good for their frequencies. Their 70cms allocation is big
[22:18] <adamgreig> Willdude123_: why not get your UK full license, so you can operate ni the US anyway?
[22:18] <Willdude123_> adamgreig, well, it'd take a while
[22:18] <adamgreig> fair enough
[22:19] <Willdude123_> And I'm intermediate now
[22:19] <Willdude123_> Well
[22:19] <Willdude123_> Doing intermediate no
[22:19] <Willdude123_> *now
[22:20] <mfa298> trying to learn stuff for two different types of exam (USA and UK) sounds a bit like a recipe for disaster.
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[22:23] <Willdude123_> mfa298 hmm. My foundation was somewhat easy
[22:24] <Willdude123_> I mean I know enough about the UK system to know a couple of major differences
[22:24] <mfa298> Intermediate is probably going to be a bit harder.
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[22:24] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[22:31] <Willdude123_> mfa298, I know.
[22:31] <Willdude123_> Practice was quite a challenge
[22:31] Action: Willdude123_ just found out there's a repeater on a hotel next door to his resort
[22:32] <Willdude123_> I actually remember what it looked like, and where it was
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[22:41] Nick change: BrainDamage_ -> BrainDamage
[22:42] <mfa298> hmm, looking at the intermediate sample papers some of those questions are a bit new fangled for what I was taught on the RAE course.
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[22:46] <WillTablet> mfa298: I did pretty well on the practice
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[22:49] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn
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[22:50] <mfa298> hmmm, I managed 38/45 on the sample paper on the RSGB site.
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[22:53] <jdtanner> Evening all. Over the mnths I appear to have cluttered up the payloads for PeakSky :/ Is there anyway to delete payload configuration files that are no longer needed on habitat?
[22:54] <mfa298> jdtanner: there's no way to delete them, The system should either use the most recent one or the one given in the flight document
[22:55] <jdtanner> Yeah, I thought as much...the OCD'd part of me doesn;t like the clutter ;)
[22:56] <fsphil> hehe, know the feeling
[22:56] <fsphil> I got really annoyed by smplayer earlier because it wouldn't let me set the volume to 50
[22:56] <fsphil> only 49 or 51
[22:57] <jdtanner> That would drive me up the wall ;)
[22:57] <fsphil> I should have filed a bug report
[22:58] <fsphil> there should probably be a timeout on payload docs if they're not used by any flight docs
[22:58] <mfa298> does it go up to 11 ?
[22:58] <fsphil> 100, which is much louder
[22:59] <mfa298> meh, 100 is fairly normal, should probably do 101 or 110 instead :p
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[23:12] <adamgreig> we were going to be garbage-collecting the old flight docs etc
[23:12] <adamgreig> that piece of infrastructure was planned
[23:12] <adamgreig> :P
[23:15] <jdtanner> :)
[23:16] <mfa298> presumably it still is planned, just with no start or completion date set!
[23:17] <adamgreig> nah
[23:17] <adamgreig> superseded
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[23:40] <g0pai_ian> I guess that it would be good if flight documents had an expiry-if-not-used-date. ability to change an unused document to a Template (do not delete) status before it expires and after expiry an overnight run could update a logical delete flag. Then when required all logically deleted records could be purged on a batch run - You do still do batch?
[23:41] <adamgreig> well we could do that
[23:41] <adamgreig> we did have designs for the gc which would have probably been easier
[23:42] <adamgreig> but in any event the new plan involves a slightly different direction. it's also not clear when it will happen
[23:42] <adamgreig> so if it ends up taking too long we'll probably do the garbage collector
[23:42] <adamgreig> or if the buildup of old docs becomes a bigger issue
[23:42] <g0pai_ian> Down side, all selects etc would need to include, where logical delete = 0, that isn't necessarily trivial on a large database, depending what the database schema looks like.
[23:42] <adamgreig> it's definitely not ideal as is
[23:42] <adamgreig> g0pai_ian: it's not using sql
[23:42] <adamgreig> let alone selects
[23:42] <adamgreig> this was written when nosql sounded like a good idea
[23:42] <adamgreig> (on the bright side, couchdb would make doing your proposal very easy ;p)
[23:43] <g0pai_ian> Fair comment. I'm in a db_developer time warp. Ingres.
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[23:44] <adamgreig> hehe
[23:44] <adamgreig> the new plan involves going to postgres which appears to get its name from ingres actually
[23:44] <mfa298> sometimes theres an advantage to not using the latest and greatest technologies
[23:44] <adamgreig> ingres -> post ingres -> postgres -> PostgreSQL
[23:44] <adamgreig> never knew that
[23:44] <adamgreig> yea. to be fair the nosql stuff has some good parts but as ever there was perhaps more hype than substance
[23:45] <adamgreig> also to be fair - couchdb has been powering habitat and the whole system has been working with no maintenance or code changes or fixes for quite a while now
[23:46] <adamgreig> ooh. 11 months. in a short while it'l be a year of running without needing poking
[23:46] <g0pai_ian> Couchdb, something else for me to ask Mr Google about . . . :-) Ingres was good. I was cleaning up databases with a view to vacating Solaris platforms as we moved weighbridge systems off of them and a day before I trashed a machine I got a call from
[23:47] <g0pai_ian> A guy who was having a printing problem on a contracting estimating system. It had been an abandoned pilot. but these guys had been using it live for four years without any table maintenance etc. It was running like a dog.
[23:47] <adamgreig> hah
[23:48] <g0pai_ian> I purged 30,000 print files and re-orged the tables and it flew. Had it been an Oracle system a crowd of DB_administrators would have been having to milk it it regularly.
[23:49] <g0pai_ian> Alas, technical prowess doesn't fill the bottom line and Ingres went to the wall. The rest is history.
[23:52] <g0pai_ian> Gnite all
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[00:00] --- Tue Feb 25 2014