highaltitude.log.20140221

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[08:24] <LeoBodnar> morning
[08:25] <beingaware> evening
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[09:09] <realflash> Morning. I'll be trying my first live tracking today. Does the launcher normally post here or on the mailing list when the balloon goes up, or do I wait for something to appear on the web tracker?
[09:11] <fsphil> it varies
[09:11] <fsphil> either the launcher will keep us updated or if someone here picks up the signal they'll mention it
[09:11] <UpuWork> depends
[09:12] <fsphil> or just watching spacenear for the altitude to jump usually gives it away
[09:12] <UpuWork> yeah
[09:12] <fsphil> if the launcher has a radio ...
[09:12] <UpuWork> yep :)
[09:12] <UpuWork> that too
[09:12] <realflash> Cool. Would just be helpful to have some correlating data.
[09:13] <UpuWork> watch the chat on here and spacenear.us is the best way
[09:13] <UpuWork> if you want to be super on the ball watch http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[09:13] <UpuWork> and you can see the packets come in
[09:13] <realflash> It's not meant to be showing on the tracker yet, right?
[09:13] <UpuWork> nothing on the tracker yet, if you refresh I just cleared it
[09:14] <fsphil> it's a bit early yet
[09:14] <fsphil> this is quite a late flight
[09:15] <realflash> Yes, I see last night's flight has gone. And I have appeared as listener, so I guess the upload is working.
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[09:16] <realflash> Out of interest, I see fldigi is converting the background noise into nonsense data. What makes it decide when something is good enough to upload?
[09:17] <cm13g09> realflash: the data has a checksum
[09:17] <realflash> Understood
[09:17] <cm13g09> Usually.... payloads follow the format of "$$<payload text here>*<checksum>\n"
[09:17] <cm13g09> the number of $ symbols varies for payload to payload in my experience....
[09:18] <cm13g09> and it will be human readable
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[09:19] <realflash> That was what made me wonder. Since the format doesn't seem to be completely fixed, I was wondering how it would know to upload if you used a different format
[09:19] <cm13g09> dl-fldigi doesn't
[09:19] <fsphil> at a minimum it must follow the format above
[09:19] <cm13g09> it's habhub IIRC that does the "Is this valid or not"
[09:20] <cm13g09> DL-FLDigi will upload anything matching the format I specified
[09:20] <cm13g09> from memory
[09:20] <realflash> Thanks
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[09:28] <realflash> I feel left out without a callsign
[09:29] Nick change: realflash -> realflash_G8NYJ
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[09:46] <GMT> any news from the AURA team?
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[09:54] <navrac_hasnt_got> rocketboy - is it possible for you to bring up the lowestoft repeater GB3YL for me briefly so I can check my aerial?
[09:54] <navrac_hasnt_got> thanks
[09:55] <navrac_hasnt_got> hmm 60db above the noise floor - not as good as it should be
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[09:58] <bertrik_work> any news on AURA2 / AURA3?
[09:58] <RocketBoy> hi navrac_hasnt_got - sorry not easily at the mo
[10:03] <navrac_hasnt_got> thats ok - someone brought it up conveniently at that point
[10:04] <navrac_hasnt_got> In the dark last night when I put the mast up i'f forgotten to elevate an entire section
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[10:06] <G8APZ> Good morning all... any news of AURA?
[10:07] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not yet
[10:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> Although HABJOE-Base is on the map
[10:09] <craag> "Last contact: 9 hours ago" though
[10:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah yes!
[10:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> He set out early ?
[10:10] <craag> But give them an hour or so, they said "probably" 10 anyway.
[10:11] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: Heh, just a bit!
[10:11] <G8APZ> that last seen time is only the time they last signed in on FLdigi though?
[10:11] Nick change: navrac_hasnt_got -> navrac_w
[10:11] <craag> Theoretically it's when dl-fldigi was last active
[10:11] <G8APZ> It has me down as last seen 15 hours ago !
[10:12] <craag> But it does stop updating that after a while iirc
[10:12] <craag> (it's seperate to the uploading of strings)
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[10:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hum nasty noise http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/Aura_20140221/
[10:17] <mfa298> I keep meaning to look at what dl-fldigi sends but I think it only checks in as active when it's started up or you change location / call.
[10:18] <craag> mfa298: Ah ok
[10:19] <mfa298> although that is partly based on what snus shows (that's the only times it seems to update the last seen time)
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[10:22] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> I see IRC is still having problems then :-(
[10:23] <fsphil> not so far today
[10:23] <[1]Geoff-G8DHE> Ah maybe a time out then
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[10:23] <fsphil> it's freenode though, so could be anything :)
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[10:25] <G8APZ> I have only just noticed that OPTIONS includes "Hide JOINS/PARTS/QUITS:" That should cut out a lot of crap on the screen!
[10:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not found that in Hydra :-(
[10:27] <G8APZ> Hydra?
[10:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> The client I use
[10:28] <mfa298> that's usually a client side option.
[10:28] <craag> It's probably hidden somewhere
[10:28] <G8APZ> look at this page top left and expand it
[10:28] <craag> But it can be useful to watch people come and go :)
[10:28] <craag> G8APZ: He's using a real irc client
[10:29] <mfa298> irssi you can do it for particular users (so you can ignore joins/parts/quits for someone that drops in and out a lot but see the others)
[10:29] <G8APZ> craag ah...that's beyond me!
[10:31] <eroomde> i'd rather people dropping in and out got kicked really
[10:31] <eroomde> if it's really bad
[10:31] <eroomde> just to shake them into doing something about it
[10:31] <eroomde> and as a (nominally) channel op i don't think i should be turning off potential important info like who is coming and going
[10:31] <eroomde> not that it's ever a problem in such a nice channel as this
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[10:32] <G8APZ> eroomde If I leave the page for a meal, I like to come back an hour later and see what has been happening.... I then have to read through pages of people coming/going, and changing nicks!!
[10:33] <eroomde> yeah, works for you certainly
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[10:34] <mfa298> seeing joins/parts can also be useful during chases so you can see if the chasers have 3G
[10:35] <mfa298> although that fails when they use irssi screen/tmux and mosh
[10:35] <eroomde> yes that's v true
[10:35] <eroomde> lol
[10:36] <fsphil> must try mosh again
[10:36] <fsphil> never managed to get it working
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[10:36] <HABJOE> hi aura3 up now
[10:38] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Dial freq please?
[10:39] <realflash_G8NYJ> 434.650
[10:39] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Thank you :-)
[10:40] <G8APZ> Right on top of a "birdie"...aargh!!
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[10:43] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Clear freq here G8APZ although I do suffer from local QRM sometimes.
[10:44] <craag> fsphil: You just need the right fw rule and the rest just works
[10:44] <GMT> no signal seen here yet (not surprising, not in blue circle) but all set-up and ready to go
[10:44] <G8APZ> Steve_G0TDJ_AFK I'll wait till I hear sigs, and maybe they'll be a few KHz clear of it!
[10:45] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Hopefully
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[10:45] <craag> fsphil: specifically: ufw allow 60000:61000/udp
[10:47] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> No updates on AURA3 since 10:36....
[10:48] <G8APZ> same here
[10:49] <craag> HABJOE went offline, so probably lost 3g
[10:49] <craag> No sign of it on the websdr though
[10:50] <G8APZ> M0JCU should be hearing if he's online
[10:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> But HABJOE base was rx it and it has lost contact ?
[10:51] <g8zbj_wayne> I'm within the blue circle but hearing nowt
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[10:55] <fsphil> craag: possibly. I suspect it was O2 doing something funky to my traffic
[10:55] <craag> HABJOE: Are you still receiving?
[10:55] <HABJOE> Hi I lost it quite quickly is anyone tracking
[10:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope
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[10:55] <craag> No signal
[10:56] <fsphil> :(
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[10:56] <HABJOE> dam!
[10:56] <GMT> HABJOE, is it exactly on .650?
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[10:57] <HABJOE> no arround .700
[10:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> I can see a carrier on .700 no modulation
[10:59] <GMT> got some sort of sig on .700, but can't decode
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[11:01] <HABJOE> yep so can I. When it has lost gps lock it goes into 500mils 500hz aternate beats
[11:01] <Andrew_M6GTG> Got some weird looking signals here around 650
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[11:01] Nick change: junderwood -> junderwood_M0JCU
[11:05] <Maxell> AURA2 on 434.700 MHz dial?
[11:05] <Maxell> Or 434.650 MHz?
[11:06] <G8APZ_> Maxell supposedly but nobody receiving anything
[11:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> HABJOE, what sort of aerial ?
[11:06] <Maxell> Ah. I can take a peek at 700
[11:07] <Maxell> 7N2 50 baud?
[11:07] <craag> Nowt on .650 or .700 in Basingstoke, but it's right down at the edge of the rtlsdr bandwidth.
[11:08] <G8APZ_> Maxell yes
[11:08] <HABJOE> 7n2 50 yes
[11:08] <G8APZ_> One of our aircraft is missing!
[11:08] <HABJOE> indeed
[11:09] <Maxell> Both clean here.
[11:09] <HABJOE> Hi 1/4 wave whip
[11:09] <Maxell> craag: are you seeing/hearing it?
[11:09] <junderwood_M0JCU> Nothing here
[11:09] <craag> Maxell: Nothing :(
[11:09] <realflash_G8NYJ> Nothing here in Woking
[11:10] <craag> HABJOE: Did you do a range test with the payload?
[11:10] <HABJOE> yes
[11:10] <navrac_w> at least it wasn't aura3 - that sounded expensive to lose
[11:10] <craag> hmm
[11:10] <fsphil> did the signal disappear suddenly?
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[11:10] <HABJOE> it was aura3, aura2 is the expensive one
[11:10] <junderwood_M0JCU> what was the exact dial freq?
[11:10] <HABJOE> I lost it at about 1000m but was only using a 2 wave on teh launch site
[11:11] <navrac_w> yes sorry - I misread
[11:11] <HABJOE> 434.700
[11:11] <HABJOE> its a NTX2
[11:11] <gonzo_> you should have seen it further than 1000m
[11:11] <craag> HABJOE: Sounds like an antenna issue then.
[11:12] <navrac_w> sounds like aerial fault then 1000m
[11:12] <HABJOE> I started packing up at that point
[11:12] <gonzo_> is the ntx2 modified, or a standard 434.650 unit?
[11:12] <HABJOE> to return home
[11:12] <HABJOE> standard
[11:12] <HABJOE> .650
[11:12] <gonzo_> then it won't have drifted to .700
[11:12] <Maxell> running at 700? huh
[11:13] <gonzo_> +- a few kHz max
[11:13] <HABJOE> yes, it did that for the last two flights on that unit
[11:13] <gonzo_> HABJOE, what RX were you using at the site?
[11:13] <HABJOE> funcube pro+
[11:13] <navrac_w> I'll keep the radio running here all afternoon - if it passes by closeish I should hear it - I've got a lot of gain available.
[11:14] <gonzo_> ah, that should be a pretty accurate RX then and sensitive
[11:14] <gonzo_> sounds like a problem somewhere
[11:14] <craag> I've tracked full flights with a barefoot rtlsdr and the DVB 1/4 wave. From the launch site you shouldn't have had an issue with reception.
[11:14] <HABJOE> indeed...! :(
[11:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> HABJOE, what sort of aerial on the payload ?
[11:15] <HABJOE> oh well... 1/4 wave with radials
[11:15] <craag> Oh well, I'll keep the waterfall up incase a sign of it pops up. Better luck next time HABJOE!
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[11:17] <G8APZ_> I've set the RX to scan 640 - 660 in case it comes near here
[11:17] <Maxell> :(
[11:17] <HABJOE> strange.... as ever problems. We had to undo and add more gas to the balloon to get some lift. It was looking good at approx 2m/s
[11:18] <HABJOE> ok folks thanks for trying.... perhaps its in a field close by ;-)
[11:20] <G8APZ_> HABJOE You never know! Maybe worth a tour with a handheld and a small yagi?
[11:21] <mattbrejza> whats the shift?
[11:21] <G8APZ_> 50
[11:22] <mattbrejza> carrier shift
[11:22] <craag> 500 according to flight doc
[11:23] <G8APZ_> sorry yes, 500
[11:23] <HABJOE> indeed
[11:24] <junderwood_M0JCU> Very faint signal here at dial 650 with the correct spacing
[11:24] <junderwood_M0JCU> way too faint to decode
[11:25] <mattbrejza> i have a faint 600 shift signal at 647, but it seems too stable to be a hab
[11:25] <mattbrejza> also too weak to decode
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> Pips on 434.664 ?
[11:26] <Geoff-G8DHE> what did it send when it lost GPS ?
[11:27] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: Alternating tones every 500ms
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[11:27] <HABJOE> yes, thats the gps lock lost tone
[11:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> nope these are very short pips every 500ms
[11:28] <craag> I've also got a 600 hz shift on .644, but far far too weak
[11:28] <HABJOE> not alterate high low?
[11:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nope see http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/Aura_20140221/
[11:29] <HABJOE> wow that faint. You might be getting one side of the alterate tones
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[11:30] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[11:31] <HABJOE> FYi here is the flight prediction with an actual start of 10:30 http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=b321410e7f41b8c58a4670d03753159f3297fdeb
[11:32] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: How do you save the waterfall?
[11:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> I send it updating all the time to the server from dl-fldigi
[11:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> I just copy the file if it looks interesting
[11:36] <craag> http://i.imgur.com/999VjFy.png
[11:36] <craag> ^^ v weak signal just to left of cursor
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[11:53] <Upu_M0UPU> nothing seen from my location
[11:53] <Upu_M0UPU> [2014-02-21 11:52:51,290] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$AURA3,677,11:2:40,5213%91,-1! 04800610,10\n' (a18c54954f516baffff87f67f173ff491851187ed022b6f1d55f4e79fba00b15) from M0JCU
[11:53] <Upu_M0UPU> [2014-02-21 11:52:47,436] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[11:53] <Upu_M0UPU> [2014-02-21 11:52:47,435] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: CantExtractCallsign exception in simple_binary: CantExtractCallsign
[11:53] <Upu_M0UPU> someone is getting it
[11:54] <craag> junderwood_M0JCU:
[11:54] <junderwood_M0JCU> gimme a sec
[11:54] <Upu_M0UPU> still up there
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[11:58] <junderwood_M0JCU> Incredibly faint
[11:58] <junderwood_M0JCU> It seems to be half way between Brackley and Northampton
[11:59] <junderwood_M0JCU> Dial is 434.649
[11:59] <G0PAi_Ian> USB?
[11:59] <Upu_M0UPU> just fixed a position from M0JCU
[11:59] <Upu_M0UPU> uploaded
[12:00] <junderwood_M0JCU> Green (party)
[12:00] <mattbrejza> shift is now 420?
[12:00] <junderwood_M0JCU> 440
[12:01] <junderwood_M0JCU> I can only just make it out at a range of about 20 miles using a Yagi
[12:01] <mattbrejza> i can see it now i know where it is, but no hope of decode
[12:01] <junderwood_M0JCU> ... and it's going away from me
[12:03] <fsphil> sounds like the antenna isn't doing anything
[12:03] <junderwood_M0JCU> I hope G4FEV has a decent antenna
[12:03] <fsphil> at least it's still alive
[12:03] <G8APZ_> fsphil or a bad solder joint has come apart?
[12:03] <fsphil> or a short
[12:04] <G8APZ_> at least at 10km alt there is a chance that someone will hear a flyby close in
[12:04] <gonzo_> I prefer to solder the DE directly to the NTX2, no coax
[12:04] <Steve_G0TDJ_AFK> Nothing here in Crayford
[12:05] <G8APZ_> good idea gonzo
[12:09] <junderwood_M0JCU> pretty-much lost it here
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[12:10] <gonzo_> nylon dielectric coax is a pain to solder, which I suspect has been the cause of a few HAB failures
[12:11] <gonzo_> the PTFE stuff is far better in that respect
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[12:14] <G8APZ_> gonzo the weak point in a flight package then?
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[12:15] <HABJOEW> M0JCU: hey you got something!
[12:16] <HABJOEW> Is the problem the antenna...?
[12:16] <G8APZ_> HABJOEW That's the concensus I think
[12:16] <fsphil> most likely, or the connection between it and the radio
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[12:17] <HABJOEW> hum...the ntx2 is soldered to the whip direct
[12:18] <eroomde> whip?
[12:18] <Maxell> 1/4 wave whip
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[12:18] <HABJOEW> oh well.. 1/4 wave
[12:18] <eroomde> describe exactly the wires and their arrangement, for the antenna
[12:18] <eroomde> *exactly*
[12:18] <eroomde> oh ok
[12:18] <eroomde> if it's a conventional 1/4 wave then that should be fine
[12:19] <gonzo_> what is the whip made from?
[12:19] <eroomde> does it have 4 ground radials?
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[12:20] <HABJOEW> Solid copper coax, with foam insulation with the shielding taken off I have used this twice before.
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[12:21] <HABJOEW> I did try and reduce weight by using thin solid wire radials
[12:21] <eroomde> odd
[12:21] <gonzo_> ok, so a simple bit of copper wire, soldered direct
[12:21] <eroomde> maybe it got a bit bashed during a bumpy ascent or something
[12:21] <HABJOEW> yes. that must be the issue.
[12:21] <gonzo_> losing it at 1000mtrs from the launch sounds like a short
[12:22] <eroomde> only 1000m?
[12:22] <G8APZ_> rigid copper wire maybe easier to break a solder joint than braided
[12:22] <eroomde> (sorry haven't been keeping up)
[12:22] <eroomde> yes that's not good
[12:22] <gonzo_> or a broken solder joint
[12:22] <HABJOEW> oh. looks like it is on its way to germany though!
[12:22] <G8APZ_> and naked copper wire may cause a short
[12:23] <gonzo_> some bits of 16/02 stranded hookup wire works well. insulated and flexible. If it's too floppy then sleeve it in a drinking straw.
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[12:24] <HABJOEW> 4 radials yes
[12:25] <gonzo_> well, you are not the first to be thwarted by antenna problems
[12:28] <DutchMillbt> Maxell in the house?
[12:29] <HABJOEW> here are some photo's https://www.flickr.com/photos/31197521@N02/12674913734/
[12:30] <HABJOEW> https://www.flickr.com/photos/31197521@N02/12674558353
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[12:36] <gonzo_> that solder joing looks like it may have crept around to the groundplane of the PCB
[12:38] <G8APZ_> gonzo I can't zoom that close! certainly the solder joint is the point to examine
[12:38] <G8APZ_> still nil on the waterfall
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[12:42] <HABJOEW> just added this one closer shot of antenna junction https://www.flickr.com/photos/31197521@N02/12674742913/
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[12:46] <junderwood_M0JCU> It's easy to launch a payload with a non-connected antenna.
[12:46] <junderwood_M0JCU> Close-up it seems fine
[12:46] <junderwood_M0JCU> about 1000 m the signal fades out
[12:46] <junderwood_M0JCU> I did it on one of our Vortex flights last year
[12:47] <junderwood_M0JCU> when we got the payload back (using the backup tracker) I found a broken wire
[12:47] <junderwood_M0JCU> but it still worked fine up-close
[12:48] <navrac_w> I've had the same happen to me - shorted - no sign of any signal loss up close - went a mile and just faded out.
[12:49] <navrac_w> I've got a carrier appear on 434.647 that is getting stronger ( freq may be out as it needs recalibrating on this pc and havent got round to it yet)
[12:50] <navrac_w> 434.637 sorry
[12:50] <Upu_M0UPU> Happened to one of our flights too
[12:50] <costyn_> nice
[12:50] <costyn_> (sorry wrong window :)
[12:51] <navrac_w> i can also see two very weak lines +/- 250Hz from the carrier
[12:52] <HABJOEW> will double double check for AURA2... will take up on hills and get signal back. I did this on my first flight.. but is quite a faff.
[12:55] <navrac_w> one of the weak lines is pulsing at about 1hz - but very weak
[12:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Might be worth making up a simple diode signal strength meter that will indicate rapidly if something is a lot less power than you think!
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[12:59] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: no, at school, running remote
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[13:03] <DutchMillbt> Hi Maxell @work and remote2 but antenna problems for AURA and strong qrm too...
[13:05] <HABJOEW> Geoff-G8DHE: do you have a link to one of those??
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/02/21/3948996.htm - doh
[13:09] <SpeedEvil> Artificial muscles made from nylon monofilliment
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[13:36] <cm13g09> can somebody remind me which GPS chipset it is that you all love?
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[13:37] <mattbrejza> max6?
[13:40] <cm13g09> mattbrejza: ta
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[13:40] <cm13g09> well, it's Max7 now ;)
[13:40] <mattbrejza> well i wouldnt say i love the max7...
[13:40] <mattbrejza> <3 lassen iq ftw :P
[13:41] <cm13g09> lol
[13:41] <cm13g09> at least (on this occasion), I'm not sending it to high altitude
[13:46] <G8APZ_> I think any chance of me picking up faint sigs from AURA have gone!! Now QRT as a result.
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[13:47] <gonzo_> What was the pauload in AURA? Looked like a camera?
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[13:50] <G8APZ_> Name: AURA3 150g payload - very striped down Canon A810.
[13:50] <G8APZ_> striped = stripped
[13:51] <Laurenceb_> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/21/google_picks_five_teams_to_share_6_meeelion_in_lunar_x_prize_competition/
[13:52] <Laurenceb_> somehow i dont expect it to happen
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[13:53] <G8APZ_> Up for grabs is a $20m grand prize for the team that successfully sends a spacecraft from Earth to the Moon, lands it safely, releases a rover that travels half a kilometre across the surface, and sends back high-definition images and video for two "Mooncasts," by the end of December 2015.
[13:53] <G8APZ_> You have almost 2 years!!
[13:54] <G8APZ_> Complete BLX of course...
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[13:54] <G8APZ_> Triple A cells to power the comms?
[13:56] Nick change: G8APZ_ -> G8APZ_away
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[14:56] <G0PAi_Ian> What are the normal HAB standards: 50 or 75 baud, Baudot or ASCII ( ITA2 or ITA5 ), 425 Hz shift, Mark low?
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[14:56] <craag> G0PAi_Ian: 50 baud 7-bit ascii, 350-450 shift
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[14:59] <G0PAi_Ian> Many thanks Phil. I guess 7 bit 2 stop bits equates to 8 careful bits and 1 top bit
[14:59] <craag> It's about 50:50 betwen 7n1 and 7n2
[14:59] <craag> 7n2 is a little more robust, but slightly slower data obviously
[15:00] <G0PAi_Ian> Yes, I understand, better chance of receiver re-syncing after a garble
[15:00] <craag> Have you seen the example tx code on the wiki?
[15:00] <craag> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[15:02] <G0PAi_Ian> I have now. I didn't look at it previously as it was Arduino code. Does no one use 300 Baud?
[15:03] <craag> People do, but there's not much reason to unless you want a really fast downlink for images or similar.
[15:04] <craag> Getting a position and some sensor reading every 20s or so works for most people.
[15:05] <G0PAi_Ian> Fair comment, I'm new to HAB. Not new to RTTY and used to be a tape ape
[15:05] <craag> Ah cool
[15:05] <G0PAi_Ian> So called wizard of the green keys, but that when keyboards weren't in every room
[15:05] <craag> If you're launching in the UK then there's plenty enough receivers that you'll get good coverage even with 300 baud.
[15:06] <craag> So if you want to, go for it!
[15:06] <mfa298> if you do go for a faster baud the shift needs to be >= baudrate
[15:06] <craag> Just be aware that there's less margin for stuff to go wrong radio-wise.
[15:06] <mfa298> at least one person has also done 600baud rtty
[15:07] <craag> Yes, and ideally an odd multiple of the baudrate when you're using >100 baud.
[15:07] <G0PAi_Ian> I understand that the higher speeds are more prone to error .
[15:07] <Upu_M0UPU> oh btw there is an updated version of the NTX2 guide here :
[15:07] <Upu_M0UPU> http://ava.upuaut.net/?p=617
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[15:07] <Upu_M0UPU> I need to transfer it to the WIki at some point unless anyone fancies a job
[15:07] <G0PAi_Ian> When you say odd, do you mean less standard.
[15:07] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> UpuWork
[15:08] <craag> G0PAi_Ian: Odd as opposed to even. (1,3,5,....)
[15:08] <craag> As each of the RTTY tones has even harmonics (as I'm sure you know :) )
[15:09] <G0PAi_Ian> Rgr, copy that.
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[15:10] <G0PAi_Ian> Upu, when you said "Fixed" a couple of evenings ago, did you mean "Fixed, vrbl freq ready" or fixed frequency?
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[15:26] <UpuWork> Hey G0PAi_Ian
[15:26] <UpuWork> remind me of the context
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[15:30] <pb1dft> hmm anyone still receiving aura3
[15:31] <pb1dft> if so on what freq?
[15:31] <UpuWork> hi pb1dft signal is very weak
[15:31] <UpuWork> its very hard to RX
[15:31] <UpuWork> was last heard aroudn 434.650
[15:33] <pb1dft> i'l retune my stuff here it wil start when it comes in range
[15:34] <UpuWork> you'll be very lucky to recieve it
[15:35] <pb1dft> it will take a while before it reaches us ;)
[15:35] <UpuWork> I wouldn't bet on it :) winds are quick
[15:36] <UpuWork> last position was 3 hours ago
[15:36] <eroomde> do you have time to drive to Dwingeloo?
[15:36] <pb1dft> when it's heard and the last position is know it's possible i might ;)
[15:37] <eroomde> i think it's used by hams now
[15:37] <G8APZ_away> pb1dft last time and only time after launch the RX was @ 20km and using a yagi -
[15:37] <pb1dft> trying to get some fellow hammers to retune their stuff and point some yagis around
[15:39] <pb1dft> 2 hour drive to dwingeloo from here.. So we have to be kinda certain it's there ;)
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[15:50] <eroomde> this is a nice old story from someone who was there
[15:50] <eroomde> http://www.flownet.com/gat/jpl-lisp.html
[15:50] <eroomde> all the rocky hyperlinks are broekn but i think they want to point here
[15:50] <eroomde> http://dpm.kipr.org/robots/rocky.html
[15:51] <eroomde> rocky 1 has a proper 80s look to it. would have been fun to be involved with robotics back then
[16:00] <eroomde> infact there's a vid
[16:00] <eroomde> arko: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gZK0tW8EhQ
[16:00] <eroomde> watch
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[17:21] <aadamson> if anyone is curious, the original author the tinygps library for arduino has released a new version along with a cpp verison, the later looks pretty good.... I ported it over to my stm32 project and its working just fine
[17:21] <aadamson> http://arduiniana.org/libraries/tinygpsplus/
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[17:21] <fsphil> is it actually tiny? :)
[17:23] <daveake> that'd be a first
[17:23] <aadamson> well cpp on an avr isn't the best, but for what it does it was pretty good... I didn't look at size a vs b, but most everyone uses his old tinygps lib unless they created their own so having a pretty flexible cpp version was a good addition
[17:24] <fsphil> it would have been better called HandyGPS
[17:24] <aadamson> with 256k on an f3, I don't really care about space at the moment, I'm only using around 30K as it is even with all of that and the plan13 cpp module
[17:24] <fsphil> yea the stm32 is well equiped
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[17:25] <fsphil> +p
[17:25] <aadamson> yeah it can handle pointer math a bit better on oo than an 8 bit processor
[17:25] <fsphil> going to try and get the adc and dac's working on my f4 later
[17:25] <aadamson> Ok, those are pretty easy.
[17:26] <fsphil> is it easy to setup a timer interrupt?
[17:26] <aadamson> oh, yeah, that's pretty easy too
[17:28] <aadamson> the biggest issue or learning with the stm is remembering to enable the clocks and the periph or pin configurations and getting those right
[17:28] <aadamson> the other is pretty easy if using the standard peripheral libraries
[17:29] <fsphil> I'm using libopencm3 atm
[17:31] <aadamson> ah, never messed with that, it doesn't support all the processors so I pretty much stay with the std periph libs from stm
[17:31] <aadamson> at least those are *fairly* common and support all the processors
[17:31] <aadamson> for example libopencm3 - not sure if it supports the M4 and M4+ cores and it didn't the last time I checked support the f3 with is an M4+ core
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[17:36] <fsphil> there are examples for the f3-discovery board in there
[17:36] <fsphil> I'll try them out and see if it works
[17:37] <fsphil> I've built up a bit of a collection of discovery boards :)
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[17:38] <zyp> there's a bunch of activity over in #libopencm3
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[17:39] <fsphil> ah, might pester them sometime
[17:39] Nick change: peter -> Guest26822
[17:39] <zyp> I think there is a bit of support for all the stm32 families, a lot carry across
[17:39] <aadamson> I'm kinda a 4+ guy for a couple of reasons, the cmsis library from arm has the dsp functions enabled in source and library form and with hwfp and single line instructions you get some additional advantages
[17:40] <aadamson> unless they have updated their wiki lately, the processor suppor seemed mostly focused on the F1 family of the stms
[17:40] <aadamson> I'm sure there are ports, but nothing official
[17:40] <zyp> 4+?
[17:40] <zyp> there is no M4+
[17:40] <aadamson> 4 is hwfp, 4+ is hwfp+dsp
[17:41] <aadamson> sure there is go check arms docs
[17:41] <zyp> no
[17:41] <fsphil> yep, fancy blink example for the f3 works nicely
[17:41] <zyp> aadamson, the only variant with a + in the name is the M0+
[17:42] <zyp> and there's no M4 without dsp, the dsp instructions is the main difference between M3 and M4
[17:42] <aadamson> yes I know about the m0+, let me find the m4+ info, it exists as well
[17:42] <zyp> I think you might be confusing it with M4F
[17:43] <aadamson> which is fp only no dsp?
[17:43] <zyp> which is M4 with the optional FPU enabled
[17:43] <aadamson> ah... ok, that solves it then
[17:43] <zyp> there is no fp only without dsp
[17:43] <aadamson> yes... my mistake, altho some are calling it an m4+
[17:43] <aadamson> I forget where I saw that
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[17:43] <zyp> ARM certainly doesn't :)
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[17:44] <zyp> fp only without dsp would be M3F, but no such thing exists
[17:45] <aadamson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-M - indeed... m4f is what I was thinking... now who was calling it an m4+... hmmm I swear I saw that from FS or one of them... it's what caused the whole conversation I had with someone recently :)
[17:46] <aadamson> anyway it's a mute point... fp+dsp is what Im after :)
[17:47] <aadamson> http://libopencm3.org/wiki/Status see I wish these people would update stuff like this - :(
[17:48] <aadamson> for example they don't have DAC support according to the wiki... it's where most people would go to figure out their offerings - as I did a while back and decided against
[17:48] <zyp> http://libopencm3.github.io/docs/latest/html/ <- better check the documentation
[17:51] <aadamson> yeah was looking at the sources and found it as well...
[17:51] <aadamson> but I'm too far down another road to switch, plus supporting 4 other projects all using std periph
[17:51] <aadamson> but filed away for reference later
[17:52] <gurgalof> libopencm3 should really update their wiki
[17:53] <aadamson> ya think... :)
[17:54] <gurgalof> I migrated over to lopencm3 a couple of months ago
[17:54] <gurgalof> its almost better to have no wiki than a waay outdated one
[17:56] <aadamson> hehe, ya I posted something on their channel, but it doesn't appear too active at the moment...
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[17:58] <aadamson> btw and again an area that I haven't messed with but the coos from coocox has been suggested as a pretty simple to implement thin rtos/multitasker... on my list of things to mess with at some point. freertos is just too much of a beast for just thin usage
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[18:00] <bertrik> What happened to AURA today?
[18:03] <ibanezmatt13> Possibly a short or broken connection on antenna it's believed
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[18:06] <bertrik> ibanezmatt13: oh, sorry to hear that
[18:06] <ibanezmatt13> not my flight, but yeah it is a shame
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[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[20:55] Action: kd2eat waves
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[21:03] <Babs_> evening all - has anyone used TinyGPS++ and flown it successfully (as opposed to TInyGPS)
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[21:09] <kd2eat> aadamson was just talking about it this afternoon. He's apparently using it in a new design.
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[21:12] <fsphil> not flight tested yet
[21:12] <Willdude123_> So I didn't win the desk lamp
[21:12] <fsphil> however GPS is really simple, just parse it yourself and stop being lazy ;)
[21:12] <db_g6gzh> Babs_: I found a "meridian bug" in it a few months ago but he's incorporated a fix. I think it's still officially in pre-release though.
[21:13] <fsphil> any more bright ideas Willdude123_?
[21:13] <Willdude123_> fsphil, hehe
[21:13] <Willdude123_> I did get mentioned though
[21:14] <aadamson> I've not *flown* the tinygps++, I just ported it to the stm32 and have it functional on a test platform.... Most all the other arduino code that deals with a gps is based either directly or loosely on the older version
[21:15] <aadamson> in looking at the original tracduino code, it was kt5tk's code is and others that I've looked at have been as well
[21:15] <Babs_> thanks all - will stick to tiny gps for now as before
[21:15] <Babs_> cheers
[21:15] <aadamson> it was just a brain dead easy way to get nmea decoded, there isn't support for binary protocols, but the new ++ version allows some flexiblity there
[21:16] <aadamson> this new tinygps++ is from the same author and he's rev'd his original tinygps as well
[21:16] <aadamson> I specifically was looking for a cpp implementation
[21:18] <aadamson> too funny how quickly mouser sold out of the st nucleo boards :)
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[22:13] <DL7AD> evening
[22:17] <Reb-SM3ULC> evning
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[22:20] <chrisstubbs> can anyone reccomend any thin super flexible cable?
[22:21] <chrisstubbs> not for carrying any serious power, just composite video signal. something that will give very little resistance on my gimbal
[22:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah thats pretty low power :-)
[22:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ive just used rg58 for that in the past
[22:23] <chrisstubbs> it needs to be wayyyyyyyyyyyy more flexible than rg58
[22:23] <chrisstubbs> ive had this really thin silicone cable before with a chinese serial adapter that would be perfect
[22:23] <chrisstubbs> its just on an adapter I need ;)
[22:24] <chrisstubbs> Its only over a few cm, do dosent need to be coax
[22:24] <chrisstubbs> *so
[22:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Semi-Rigid cables maybe
[22:25] <craag> a bit of ribbon cable should be fine
[22:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> like the UT series
[22:25] <craag> a strip of ground-video-ground
[22:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no wait, not Semi-Rigid, i was not thinking :-)
[22:26] <chrisstubbs> haha I was going to say
[22:26] <mfa298> or look at a much thinner coax like rg174
[22:26] <chrisstubbs> the ribbon cable I have here is too stiff ideally
[22:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes thats less than 3mm
[22:27] <mfa298> and there's probably even smaller stuff
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> Im trying to think of how to describe this silicone stuff I have
[22:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> RG316 is also less than 3mm
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> imagine a 0.75mm strand of very sloppy cooked spaghetti
[22:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its a teflon cable
[22:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> JBY also makes a thin coax less than 3mm, just cant remeber the type number
[22:30] <chrisstubbs> http://ebay.eu/1eeDx65 is what I have on the gimbal at the moment, and its not ideal. Still a little too heavy and stiff so it does not let the camera rotate freely
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[22:35] <Willdude123_> Intermediate course tomorrow
[22:37] <DL1SGP> ah you will enjoy it Willdude123_
[22:39] <G0PAi_Ian> http://www.wellshow.com/products/rf-coaxial-cables/rg-coaxial-cable/rg178-coaxial-cable/ RG178, 1.8mm silver plated, copper covered steel filament, so with a loop and making sure that it doesn't flex at a joint should be a contender
[22:39] <G0PAi_Ian> A lot lighter than RG174
[22:40] <chrisstubbs> That looks pretty good G0PAi_Ian, cheers
[22:40] <chrisstubbs> I just ordered some 28awg silicone ribbon cable to try, so will se how that goes first
[22:40] <G0PAi_Ian> Good luck for your Intermediate examination Wildude123. just get the licence questions right. In the Advance they are an open book giveaway.
[22:41] <G0PAi_Ian> RG178 is excellent if you have to route RF over a PC board.
[22:41] <G0PAi_Ian> I have a length from China, brought over by the slow boat. Definitely worth having a couple of feet in your bits box.
[22:42] <Upu> evening G0PAi_Ian
[22:42] <G0PAi_Ian> Silicone ribbon cable seems ideal.
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[22:43] <G0PAi_Ian> Evening Upu. Missed your request for clarification earlier. Spotted it in a read boack through the logs.
[22:43] <Upu> yeah I had to shoot anyway
[22:43] <Upu> did you get your answe r?
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[22:44] <G0PAi_Ian> I enquired about the NTX2B re frequency variability. You had said they were fixed, which could of course cut both ways . . . I remember you saying that Monday was announcement day and so thought that I could wait to be certain of not getting what I wasn't expecting.
[22:44] <Upu> yeah
[22:45] <Upu> well ok so the programmer turned up today
[22:45] <Upu> but its not working at the moment
[22:45] <G0PAi_Ian> Should I hold off for a few days?
[22:45] <Upu> not sure why, possibly the pogo pins aren't contacting correctly
[22:45] <Upu> I don't know tbh
[22:45] <Upu> I'd just order one
[22:45] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, will have a short ordering question in a few minutes
[22:46] <Upu> will be fixed frequency but there are so many available it Doubt it will be an issue
[22:46] <Willdude123_> So I was mentioned in one of my CS courses videos - about 12 minutes in https://live.cs50.net/
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[22:48] <G0PAi_Ian> Thanks on that Upu. I was looking for the flexibility, but can live with it. Will wait before ordering a second.
[22:49] <Upu> until I can program them reliable its a no go
[22:50] <G0PAi_Ian> That is understood and the last thing you need is to be pestered. I will go and get it sorted now. Many thanks.
[22:50] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_1667.JPG
[22:50] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PCB%20Pictures/IMG_1668.JPG
[22:50] <Willdude123_> So I decided for my RTTY tracker, I'm going to start the code again once I start programming it.
[22:51] <Willdude123_> Because the arduino code I wrote was either horrible, uncommented or copied and pasted
[22:51] <Upu> careful Willdude123 you were nearly on topic then
[22:51] <Willdude123_> Upu: thanks
[22:51] <Willdude123_> :)
[22:51] <Willdude123_> Point taken though
[22:52] <Willdude123_> Amateur radio is OT though
[22:53] <Willdude123_> Upu, my knowledge of C is somewhat OK now
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[22:55] <Upu> get coding then
[22:55] <DL1SGP> :)
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[22:55] <WillTablet> Upu: :-) its not quite up to scratch yet.
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[22:57] <mfa298> just wait 'til you understand C a bit better, you'll then say there's lots you don't know
[22:57] <WillTablet> Indeed
[22:58] <WillTablet> I didn't actually realise that functions are declared by their output type
[22:58] Action: WillTablet wonders if the HAB community is radiometrix's primary customer
[22:59] <WillTablet> C is good - I like it. I was initially scared by its complexity though
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[23:00] <G0PAi_Ian> I followed most of your RTTY example code that you posted this afternoon, but failed to visualise the waveform on the Arduino pin 9
[23:01] <G0PAi_Ian> That was the part 1. The part 2 made good sense, except for the same waveform of course.
[23:02] <WillTablet> Oh that's a point, need to get me some level converters
[23:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn
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[23:02] <G0PAi_Ian> In HAB telemetry, if there is no checksum, is there a standard value to indicate no checksum?
[23:03] <G0PAi_Ian> Picaxe doesn't handle strings . . . Time to add Arduino to the inventory perhaps . . . :-(
[23:05] <WillTablet> Is the intermediate a significantly steeper learning curve than the foundation?
[23:05] <G0PAi_Ian> Nice photos, I take it that the pogo pins don't have a little waggle . . . and no neat ground plane under those nice plated through pogo holed . . . ? Sacreligious
[23:06] <G0PAi_Ian> Is the Int harder than the Foundation . . . Yes, it's actually quite a step. You have to work really hard to fail the Foundation
[23:07] <WillTablet> Heh
[23:07] <WillTablet> I do however know quite a few people who would fail it
[23:08] <G0PAi_Ian> I guess that you will have your project sorted out dead easy. Always a bit of a bain. We had one guy who offered a member to make his, then when it turned up it was patently made by someone with considerable soldering and thinking skills.
[23:08] <G0PAi_Ian> There are an alarming number that think you get it just for turning up.
[23:08] <craag> G0PAi_Ian: Please always use a checksum :)
[23:08] <craag> There is no provision for no checksum afaik, because it makes no sense.
[23:09] <G0PAi_Ian> RGR, I can take a telling.
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[23:09] <craag> 16-bit CRC16-CCITT is the best
[23:10] <WillTablet> G0PAi_Ian: did that disqualify him?
[23:10] <craag> You can use an 8-bit XOR, but you will get some wrong packets being verified as ok, and parsed on to the map (leading to strange results!)
[23:10] <G0PAi_Ian> No, he was expelled from the group for myriad other sins
[23:10] <G0PAi_Ian> He wasn't going to make the grade while he had a hole in . . .
[23:11] <G0PAi_Ian> CRC16-CCITT is now on my reading list.
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[23:12] <WillTablet> G0PAi_Ian: hole in what?
[23:13] <G0PAi_Ian> You don't have to QQQQQ to know that there is a hole in your RRRRR
[23:13] <G0PAi_Ian> Not trying to put me on the naughty step Will?
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[23:15] <WillTablet> G0PAi_Ian: no
[23:15] <WillTablet> I genuinely have absolutely no idea what you mean
[23:15] <G0PAi_Ian> Will, I'm sure you will ace it. For the Full licence exam though, get familiar with the licence. It's 30% of your marks, open book, so if you can mentally grep the patterns you should need shot if you get any wrong.
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[23:16] <G0PAi_Ian> The guy was basically flawed and bad. drugs, guns, abusive . . . magistrates court in March.
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> what happened to AURA2?
[23:17] <G0PAi_Ian> Told porky pies too . . .
[23:17] <Upu> faulty antenna LeoBodnar
[23:17] <Upu> very weak signal
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> last position is above my head
[23:17] <LeoBodnar> 90 degrees elevation
[23:17] <WillTablet> If a dipole is not isotropic, and the legal limit is 10mw erp, then isn't using a 10mw radio against the terms?
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[23:19] <WillTablet> Or a quarter wave or whatever aerials people use
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[23:20] <qyx_> cable loss?
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[23:20] <mikestir> erp is relative to a dipole
[23:20] <mikestir> eirp is to isotropic
[23:21] <WillTablet> Ah
[23:21] <WillTablet> Makes sesne
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[23:25] <G0PAi_Ian> erp means that the gain of the antenna, (after cable losses) is a consideration. so 1mw tx and 10dBd gain ant is at the limit
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[23:28] <G0PAi_Ian> In fact erp isn't relative to a dipole, but relative to the isotropic model. A dipole has a nominal 2.1dBi (?) gain. Charlatans used to specify beams with gain in dBi or not specified, when they were patently based upon dipole designs. ARRL took a dim view of that a few years ago.
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[23:31] <DL1SGP1> I will leave the channel for a while until internet issues settled to avoid annoying you with my re-joins :D have a lovely night all
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[23:32] <K5KXF> ping fsphil
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[23:42] <G0PAi_Ian> NXT2B random freq ordered.
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 22 2014