highaltitude.log.20140219

[00:00] <fsphil> happy postfix user here
[00:00] <adamgreig> I ran postfix for the three years I ran a mailserver
[00:00] <adamgreig> it was fine
[00:00] <adamgreig> then I stopped running a mailserver
[00:01] <adamgreig> and my life improved immeasurably :P
[00:01] <mfa298> I did look at postfix a couple of months ago but decided it was quicker just to stick with sendmail - but then I know what bits of config to change to make it work for me.
[00:04] <adamgreig> fair enough
[00:04] <mfa298> for someone new to smtp servers postfix probably is the way to go.
[00:06] <WillTablet> Ergh, I have school on Monday
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[00:06] <fsphil> awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
[00:07] <mfa298> half the people here probably have work today (is it really past midnight already !?!)
[00:07] <fsphil> yep. stoopid arrow of time
[00:09] <WillTablet> fsphil: sarcasm?
[00:13] <arko> some of us have time zones yo
[00:16] <WillTablet> I hate school but I also don't like not being at school.
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[00:25] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> goddammit, someone is squatting on my callsign's .com url
[00:25] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> they want $980 for it
[00:26] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> apparently kc0wys is a "common word or phrase people often use in their online searches"
[00:30] <WillTablet> Heh
[00:35] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> anyway whats new lol
[00:38] <jededu> WillTablet we programmed a 4 floor model lift in Scratch for a school project using a pi
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[02:04] <aadamson> Yea... Plan13 with doppler running on my little ole stm32 project http://bcas.tv/paste/results/r1T3Th20.html
[02:04] <aadamson> so now I can handle satellite, and now on to geofencing
[02:05] <aadamson> those are ISS from/to mee live off an STM32F3-Discovery for now
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[08:04] <Maxell> How do I subscribe to the UKHas mailing list with non-google mail?
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[08:16] <Hes> Maxell: http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/15393/how-to-subscribe-by-email-to-a-google-groups-mailing-list-with-daily-digest-opti
[08:17] <Hes> ukhas+subscribe@googlegroups.com should work
[08:21] <Maxell> Hes: thanks. daily-digest is the daily sum of all messages right?
[08:22] <Maxell> http://www.mydigitallife.info/how-to-subscribe-or-join-google-groups-without-google-account/
[08:22] <Maxell> ehhh yep
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[08:39] <Hes> Maxell: I would suppose so.
[08:44] <UpuWork> q
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[08:52] <Maxell> Hes: we'll see
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[08:58] <LeoBodnar> morning *
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[10:54] <DL7AD> morning LeoBodnar
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[11:02] <LeoBodnar> morning Sven
[11:08] <DL7AD> :)
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[11:09] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: how's life?
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[12:22] <LeoBodnar> moving along it seems
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[12:38] <craag> mattbrejza: pong
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[12:46] <craag> boom, bots are back.
[12:47] <daveake> sweeet
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[12:48] <cm13g09> craag: I just hope you haven't put both feet in it :P
[12:48] <cm13g09> by bringing the bots back :P
[12:48] <craag> No idea why they disconnected, if they do it again I'll rewrite them in something sane (not javascript)
[12:49] <cm13g09> lol
[12:50] <craag> Thinking about the HAB linux distro.. does that mean someone's got decoding through pulseaudio to work???!
[12:52] <fsphil> oh it works, for a few minutes
[12:52] <craag> huh?
[12:52] <fsphil> pulseaudio
[12:53] <craag> Why would it only work for a few minutes?
[12:53] <fsphil> no idea
[12:53] <fsphil> works fine for me for a few minutes, then everything goes to hell
[12:53] <craag> grr
[12:53] <fsphil> I give up on it, using a real radio until I hack dl-fldigi to read directly from gqrx
[12:54] <fsphil> gqrx now outputs its audio data over UDP packets
[12:54] <craag> ah yes that'd be good
[12:54] <fsphil> and even offers remote control via tcp
[12:54] <craag> oh nice
[12:54] <craag> so could hook it into the retuning in dl-fldigi
[12:54] <fsphil> yes
[12:54] <cm13g09> fsphil: yeah - PA = Pile of junk :P
[12:54] <fsphil> I hope
[13:01] <craag> I'm replying to Ian to mention the issue and ask if he has a solution.
[13:01] <craag> Does it work better for really high signal strength (eg bench testing)?
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[13:34] <mattbrejza> craag: it was just that sibot was dead :P
[13:35] <craag> Yeah I scrolled back.
[13:37] <mattbrejza> you going to be around later?
[13:41] <craag> yep
[13:41] <craag> anything particular this week?
[13:42] <mattbrejza> nope
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[13:50] <cm13g09> craag: ping
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[13:52] <craag> cm13g09: pong
[13:54] <cm13g09> craag: to PM
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[14:13] <fsphil> rsgb band plan now requires flash?
[14:13] <craag> wat
[14:13] <fsphil> maybe I'm on the wrong page
[14:14] <fsphil> the non-flash (or SEO version) is crashing my browser
[14:14] <fsphil> that's awful
[14:14] <craag> it does :|
[14:14] <craag> wtf
[14:14] <fsphil> ah the old one is still there
[14:14] <fsphil> http://thersgb.org/services/bandplans/html/rsgb_band_plan_jan_2014-1.htm
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[14:14] <craag> Some of my £0 membership fee has been spent on this???!
[14:15] <daveake> Demand a refund
[14:15] <craag> :P
[14:16] <fsphil> I suspect my membership will lapse shortly
[14:22] <LazyLeopard> The "plain tabbed html" version looks like some bastard export from Excel...
[14:22] <fsphil> it very likely is
[14:23] <LazyLeopard> As, I think, is the HF predictions table...
[14:23] <fsphil> <meta name="Excel Workbook Frameset">
[14:23] <LazyLeopard> Heh!
[14:23] <fsphil> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Excel 14">
[14:23] <fsphil> bingo
[14:24] <fsphil> hey, it's the best band plan page they have atm
[14:24] <LazyLeopard> ...and quite a bit better than a few other band plans I've had cause to try looking at of late...
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[14:28] <mattbrejza> wut
[14:28] <mattbrejza> why do we need a flash app to flick thru a excel docuemnt :/
[14:31] <craag> It occurs to me that the RSGB need somone technical to just sit in the office, and tell people when something's a bad idea..
[14:31] <cm13g09> craag: sounds about right....
[14:31] <craag> It'd probably save them money!
[14:31] <mattbrejza> what does the rsgb actually do?
[14:32] <daveake> how long do we have to answer?
[14:34] <craag> They're an overgrown radio club, with an office, a magazine and a website.
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[14:34] <craag> Tbh, that's about it.
[14:34] <craag> They hold very little power in the organisation, most of it is through personal connections of the individuals
[14:35] <mattbrejza> i see
[14:35] <craag> That's the way I see it anywasy.
[14:35] <craag> *anyway
[14:37] <craag> So naturally they have all the indecision, bad ideas and occasional corruption that you get in a large hobby club.
[14:39] <craag> *large hobby club that has lots of money
[14:40] <craag> Add to that the fact that you seem to have to retire to meet their employment requirements..
[14:41] <mattbrejza> seems like a nice place to retire to really
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[14:42] <LazyLeopard> Suffers somewhat from having two independent governing bodies; the elected Board and officials, and the Secret Masters of Ham Radio...
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[14:44] <LazyLeopard> Most of the latter have G3 or earlier callsigns...
[14:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Wow do we need a special sign to join the SMHR ?
[14:44] <LazyLeopard> The Don't Exist(tm)
[14:45] <LazyLeopard> They... even...
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[14:45] <LazyLeopard> ...but if you try to get anything sensible done, they'll Not Exist to stop you....
[14:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> Sounds like we had better all "Keep taking the tablets" then
[14:50] <LazyLeopard> Meh. There's something to be said for Just Do It Anyway...
[14:52] <LazyLeopard> Sooner or later the Grumpy Obstructive Old F**rts will die off...
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[14:53] <Geoff-G8DHE> No chance they will be replaced by the next generation of Gumpy Old Farts - that's YOU!
[14:53] <LazyLeopard> ...and there are a good number of older hams who still know that they're in the hobby to experiment, develop, change, innovate, and generally move onward.
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[14:54] <LazyLeopard> Heh. Not been a ham nearly long enough to get that way yet...
[14:55] <fsphil> grumpy young farts
[14:55] <fsphil> or is that teenagers
[14:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh you'd be suprised what the new ones look like !
[14:56] <LazyLeopard> Teenagers are a whole different species.
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[15:12] <Willdude> oi
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[15:21] <mfa298> reading scrollback, rsgb probably dont even need a person. Just a botton that says "Is this a good idea?" that plays back a recording of "No you idiot" when pushed
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[15:35] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[15:36] <kd2eat> Mornin'
[15:37] <DL1SGP1> Hello Kevin and kd2eat
[15:41] Action: Willdude wonders if he can also get free ARRL membership
[15:42] <Willdude> I'll probably phone or email them
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[15:53] <kd2eat> So, my frustrations with the UBLOX Max7 on my Pecan Pico 4 clone continue. I disabled transmit so I wouldn't get RF interference. The GPS still doesn't seem to lock on. I see lots of satellites in the GPGSV output, but it never seems to lock.
[15:53] <kd2eat> $GPRMC,044812.00,V,,,,,,,180214,,,N*78
[15:53] <kd2eat> $GPVTG,,,,,,,,,N*30
[15:53] <kd2eat> $GPGGA,044812.00,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*6D
[15:53] <kd2eat> $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,99.99,99.99,99.99*30
[15:53] <kd2eat> $GPGSV,3,1,11,01,53,140,17,03,15,064,18,07,52,184,20,08,71,259,25*7B
[15:53] <kd2eat> $GPGSV,3,2,11,09,65,261,26,11,63,095,21,17,18,243,,19,35,053,26*7F
[15:53] <kd2eat> $GPGSV,3,3,11,26,17,295,,27,02,060,,28,51,308,17*47
[15:53] <kd2eat> $GPGLL,,,,,044812.00,V,N*41
[15:53] <kd2eat> Ideas welcomed.
[15:53] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> are you outside?
[15:54] <kd2eat> Yes, on the dash of my car, outside. No particular overhead obstructions.
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[15:56] <kd2eat> It slowly builds up from like 1 satellite, to 11+. It also gradually fills in the other data related to the satellites (azimuth and elevation I think). I really thought it would lock on, but 40 minutes later, no improvement.
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> kd2eat: cars can be GPS opaque
[15:59] <SpeedEvil> To a large degree - due to IR reflective coatings on windows
[16:00] <kd2eat> Well a garmin works fine in the same place, as does a GPS module on my Kenwood radio (both off when I did this testing)
[16:01] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> both of those probably have amplifiers between the antenna and the gps though
[16:01] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> the ublox just has a passive antenna attached and that's it
[16:03] <kd2eat> (sorry phone call.. sec)
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[16:11] <kd2eat> OK. Sorry.
[16:12] <kd2eat> Well, that could explain it. I've had the GPS lock on just a very few times. All but one were from the dash of my car, in the same location, but as I say, it's spotty at the best of times.
[16:12] <kd2eat> I can clearly see that RF transmissions cause the GPS to do silly things.
[16:13] <kd2eat> On the other hand, I've also run some tests with the Pico sitting on the hood of my car. I've never got it to lock in those circumstances, but at the time, I had the board transmitting every 16 seconds, so RF interference could have been the issue.
[16:13] <kd2eat> I'll plan to run another test with the board outside the car for 20+ minutes and see if I get anywhere.
[16:13] <kd2eat> I'll leave transmits disabled for the test. At least the temperature is above 32f now. This is NOT pleasant to test with the sub-zero temps we've been having! lol
[16:15] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> if you can, try it on a non-metallic surface too
[16:19] <kd2eat> Oh, fussy, fussy! ;-p
[16:20] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> :P
[16:20] <kd2eat> I have two pico boards built up. I have the parts to set it up for an active antenna. I may do that on one of them, just to have a basis for comparison.
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[16:21] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> yea for me the difference between an active antenna and passive one is night and day, i can usually only get a fix with a passive antenna if it's outside and completely unobstructed
[16:21] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> that's with a trimble, i haven't had a chance to play with my ublox yet
[16:21] <fsphil> I've had a ublox get a lock indoors with an antenna that really shouldn't work at all
[16:22] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> fsphil, i'm sure all kinds of weird things are possible under the right circumstances
[16:22] <fsphil> it always happens
[16:22] <fsphil> I have to put metal near the antenna to get to stop working
[16:22] <kd2eat> Yea, the locking issue has been really frustrating. It'll work for a while, fairly predictably, then quit. Of course, I'm messing with code changes and other things, so I never know what happened. It might simply be the alighnment of satellites is favorable at certain times.
[16:23] <fsphil> this is with the little ceramic antenna
[16:23] <fsphil> the quarterwave wire on the pecan boards just doesn't work for me at all
[16:24] <kd2eat> You mean the little chip antenna doohickie? That doesn't work? You're using an external, or somethign else?
[16:24] <fsphil> the little ceramic chip antenna is the one that always works
[16:24] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> the little ceramic antenna is the one that "shouldn't work at all"? the one that's literally made to be used with a gps?
[16:24] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> i'm confused.
[16:24] <Lunar_LanderU> is that the one Upu uses?
[16:24] <fsphil> yea
[16:24] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[16:25] <kd2eat> OK. Yea, I'm using the little chip antenna and having utterly horrible luck.
[16:25] <craag> I've got fixes indoors off a 1/4 wave wire whip :)
[16:25] <fsphil> is it broke?
[16:25] <fsphil> obvious question I guess :)
[16:25] <craag> took a good 20 minutes though...
[16:25] <kd2eat> I've got two identical boards. Identical problem.
[16:25] <kd2eat> lol
[16:25] <fsphil> ah
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[16:26] <craag> That was with a ublox6 though, I'm having a similar issue to you with the ublox7s kd2eat
[16:26] <kd2eat> Well, I'll run some tests with the board outside and not on the hood of the car. See if it's any better. The weather will be a little more agreeable to that over the next few days.
[16:26] <fsphil> I think the antenna can be soldered back to front?
[16:26] <kd2eat> craag, that's good to hear. I'm honestly wondering if I should order up a few UBLOX MAX6s and try.
[16:27] <kd2eat> Gotta run to a lunch date. Back later. Thanks for all the ideas! :-)
[16:27] <craag> kd2eat: mattbrejza has been investigating 6/7 and the 6s so far are perfectly fine, on identical boards, next to 7s that can't get a lock.
[16:28] <craag> It's very strange.. enjoy lunch!
[16:28] <mattbrejza> :(
[16:28] <kd2eat> Wow.
[16:28] <kd2eat> I'd love to hear details on that... gotta run, but I'll read when I get back.
[16:29] <fsphil> that's a bad sign
[16:29] <mattbrejza> http://imgur.com/ZevxARv http://imgur.com/Ef5dESC for when he gets back
[16:30] <Lunar_LanderU> what do we see here?
[16:30] <Lunar_LanderU> Max7/Max6 comparison?
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[16:30] <mattbrejza> yea
[16:30] <Lunar_LanderU> cool
[16:30] <Lunar_LanderU> coordinates censored xD
[16:30] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> lol lat and lon is still visible
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[16:30] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> in the second one down on the right
[16:31] <mattbrejza> or you could just look on snus :P
[16:31] <Lunar_LanderU> yea under the world map
[16:31] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[16:31] <mattbrejza> but yea i didnt notice that at the time
[16:31] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> we gon find you :P
[16:31] <fsphil> my coordinates have been well published on the internet
[16:32] <mattbrejza> habitat knows where everyone lives...
[16:32] <craag> I knew there was something fishy about the habhub team..
[16:32] <craag> They're all NSA!
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[16:34] Action: cm13g09 goes home
[16:34] <fsphil> we know
[16:34] <x-f> :))
[16:35] <fsphil> don't forget your keys, you've left them on your desk
[16:35] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[16:35] <Lunar_LanderU> "I know where your house lives, dude!" xD
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[16:38] <navrac_work> anyone home?
[16:38] <fsphil> I practically live at work, so yea
[16:40] <navrac_work> I've actually got time to breathe at work today and tem minutes to kill so I thought I'd see whats new
[16:41] <fsphil> not too much happening today
[16:42] <adwiens_KC0WYS_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVEQOJbdu7s
[16:44] <navrac_work> I finally managed to get my mast up last night at my new house - 40' up and I had to take it down again to check the connectors - so little noise on 70cm I thought I'd misswired something - turns out that because I'm surrounded by hills from mosst of the uk to the west of me there is nothing - no qrm from tetra or garage door openers. I only realised it was working when the local repeater came on and overloaded the front end
[16:44] <fsphil> lol
[16:45] <fsphil> you just missed a busy weekend for flights
[16:45] <fsphil> you're on the east coast?
[16:46] <navrac_work> oh b*gger - i was really looking forward to tracking - anything going over to europe is an easy track for me - also got the HF windom up and a flex 1500 on the way for tracking HF beacons on European balloons
[16:47] <navrac_work> about 4miles from the most easterly point of the uk
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[16:49] <Lunar_LanderU> hi navrac_work
[16:50] <craag> Afternoon Lunar_LanderU
[16:50] <Lunar_LanderU> hi craag
[16:50] <Lunar_LanderU> finally done http://gerblook.org/pcb/QTAQEREwJgzZ7NbdZX4foJ
[16:50] <navrac_work> hi lunar_landerI
[16:50] <craag> sweet
[16:52] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks :)
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[17:00] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[17:00] <Lunar_LanderU> 88.9x40.6mm
[17:01] <navrac_work> nice little board.
[17:02] <navrac_work> unusual to see a step down instead of a step up on a board
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[17:05] <navrac_work> nice it has the i/o exposed as well - handy for daughter boards - I think I'm going to go down that route rather than custom for everything as I just dont get the time anymore to do a different layout for each new silly idea I have
[17:08] <navrac_work> I also put up a weather station so it sounds an alarm when it gets windy so I know to take the mast down
[17:08] <navrac_work> www.navsys.plus.com
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[17:15] <Lunar_LanderU> see you later!
[17:15] <Lunar_LanderU> navrac_work_: thanks :)
[17:16] <navrac_work_> you're welcome
[17:16] <Lunar_LanderU> see you later then :)
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[17:17] <Willdude> I do love C. 3 errors from one msitake
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[17:48] <Willdude> Can anyone help me with some C code that is behaving not how I expected it to?
[17:48] <Willdude> http://pastie.org/8749271
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[17:59] <Miek> how does it behave and how do you expect it to behave?
[18:01] <fsphil> and what does GetInt() do
[18:02] <fsphil> also, globals
[18:02] <fsphil> and add some comments :)
[18:06] <fsphil> hello?
[18:06] <mikestir> eww globals
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[18:07] <fsphil> globals can be useful
[18:07] <fsphil> just not in this case :)
[18:07] <fsphil> that's a pretty good example of how not to use globals
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[18:07] <fsphil> hopefully that's part of the course
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[18:19] <Willdude> fsphil, oh sorry I was just debugging.
[18:20] <Willdude> For some reason my for loop at line 37 is getting stuck and is repeating forever, I think the variable i stays at something like 3 or something and the code repeats forever leading to an infinite number of lines with 3 hashes. The three hashes is deliberate, but I want it to print 2 hashes on first run followed by (for now) 3 hashes on the proceeding lines unti there have been the same number of lines drawn as was requested. Note that
[18:20] <Willdude> my code uses a function from a third-party library, namely getint, which, gets an integer.
[18:21] <Willdude> Should I abandon that code?
[18:23] <fsphil> what do you mean it gets an integer?
[18:23] <Willdude> It literally just takes the user's input and prompts them if it's not an int
[18:23] <Willdude> *prompts them again
[18:23] <fsphil> your bug is cause by your globals
[18:24] <fsphil> read through the code and find out what happens to i
[18:25] <Willdude> So i is initialised as null at the start of the code. That's ok right?
[18:25] <fsphil> i is an integer
[18:25] <Willdude> Ah but I use i
[18:25] <fsphil> it can't be null
[18:25] <Willdude> I got it
[18:25] <kd2eat> Is your compiler doing something squirlly with "first". You declare it, then you delcare it again with a value of true.
[18:26] <Willdude> I use I in three different for loops
[18:26] <fsphil> two of which happen to be inside the first
[18:26] <Willdude> I should call it something else inside of them or make it such that they are local to the loops
[18:26] <fsphil> obvious answer is obvious: don't use globals unless you need to
[18:27] <Willdude> Right, so I remove the global
[18:27] <fsphil> this is a textbook example of why :)
[18:27] <kd2eat> Oh jezsus, ya, you're using i all over the place as a global. Local scope, dude!
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[18:27] <kd2eat> The loop in
[18:28] <Willdude> Almost works
[18:28] <Willdude> Well, it does
[18:28] <Willdude> I just need to implement extra stuff
[18:28] <kd2eat> THe loop in "space" for example could simply be "for (; s >0; s--) {}"
[18:29] <kd2eat> "s" will be local scope and a pass by value. You could just use it as your loop index. Same idea in hash.
[18:29] <kd2eat> A little less readable, though. For simplicity, just define "i" in each of those routines
[18:32] <fsphil> yea
[18:33] <Willdude> Right
[18:34] <fsphil> or while(s--)
[18:34] <fsphil> though that breaks if the value is negative
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[18:37] <Willdude> I need to rewrite my for loop
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[18:37] <Willdude> As I want to do it forwards, not back
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[18:40] <fsphil> possible aurora visible tonight
[18:40] <fsphil> that's why it's raining
[18:43] <Willdude> So I made it sort of work
[18:44] <Willdude> http://i.imgur.com/IvZORvy.png but the pyramid is upside down
[18:44] <Willdude> I get why it does this but how might I fix it
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[18:48] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/random/2014-02-19_194708_0000555.png uh, do you think this could be intended to be cw?
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> looks like transcript of Morse code appreciation session for UK foundation licence
[18:51] <Oddstr13> it's the waterfall at 0.479.433.899
[18:52] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/random/2014-02-19_195218_0000556.png
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> Morse code timing is dash = 3x dot
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> dot = spacing
[18:54] <LeoBodnar> word spacing is ~ 5 dots
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[18:58] <Oddstr13> LeoBodnar: well, i have no idea of what else it might be
[18:58] <Oddstr13> it seems like manual on-off keying or something
[18:59] <fsphil> just noise coming of some electronics most likely
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[19:01] <LeoBodnar> carrier is visible in the off segments
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[19:27] <Willdude> Anyone?
[19:28] <Reb-SM3ULC> Noone?
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[19:30] <Babs_> Hey all - a question on circuit building. I'm designing a tracker pcb that has a programming header and I also want to put an SD card holder on the circuit so I can save locations. When I look at the connections though, both the programming header and the SD card holder connect up to the mosi and miso
[19:30] <K5KXF> ping fsphil
[19:30] <Babs_> should i be connecting both the corresponding programming header pin *and* the SD card holder pins to the same pin on the atmega?
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[19:46] <fsphil> evenin K5KXF
[19:47] <K5KXF> evenin
[19:47] <fsphil> Babs_: I believe so. If the SD card isn't enabled it shouldn't bother the SPI lines
[19:47] <Babs_> great - thanks fsphil
[19:48] <K5KXF> not much help on the NBTV forum
[19:48] <K5KXF> interestingly but, most guy's are doing mechanical TV
[19:48] <fsphil> I suspect you'll need a pull up/down resistor on the SD cards enable line, during programming that line from the avr will probably be an input
[19:49] <fsphil> and you'll want it pulled to whatever disables it
[19:49] <K5KXF> did you start out with any particular software?
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[19:50] <fsphil> I played with a program ironically called "nbtv the big picture"
[19:50] <fsphil> it's a receiver for the old vertical style video
[19:51] <fsphil> man *everything* is on the ukhas wiki
[19:51] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:interfacing_microsd_cards_and_sd_cards_with_avr_microprocessors_with_on_board_isp
[19:51] <fsphil> Babs_: ^
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[19:52] <fsphil> not complete but it has some pointers
[19:52] <Babs_> thanks, i will take a look
[19:53] <Upu> ping Babs_
[19:53] <Upu> oh hi PM
[19:53] <fsphil> very not complete
[19:53] <Babs_> yo yo upu
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[19:53] <fsphil> https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/76415/spi-device-prevents-isp-programming
[19:54] <fsphil> resistors between the SD card on the SCK, MISO and MOSI lines
[19:54] <fsphil> but not the ISP header
[19:56] <Babs_> how do the resistors work to stop the problem?
[19:56] <Babs_> (sorry, this is just out of interest, the page itself is mega helpful
[20:00] <fsphil> gives the isp programmers signals the path of least resistance
[20:01] <fsphil> would overpower anything on the other side of the resistors
[20:01] <K5KXF> Thanks fsphil I'll start with that
[20:01] <fsphil> that's probably a horrible explination
[20:01] <Upu> Babs_ http://www.billporter.info/2011/06/26/how-to-add-multiple-uart-connections/
[20:01] <Upu> same deal
[20:03] <fsphil> I'd like to think the SD card would set its SPI pins to a high impedance when not enabled
[20:03] <fsphil> then it wouldn't matter
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[20:10] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[20:11] <Babs_> thanks guys
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[20:14] <mfa298> Willdude: I've only just caught up on the last few hours of scrollback, but for your most recent issue it might help if you shared the source code as well as what happens.
[20:14] <Willdude> mfa298, I did, earlier although I suppose it wasn't the most recent
[20:15] <Willdude> Now rewriting it in python and will translate it. Writing it in python gives me a better idea of exactly what I want it to do
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[20:16] <mfa298> trying to debug someones code when you can't see the current version makes life very hard.
[20:17] <Willdude> Right, one second, I might actually have cottoned on to the problem
[20:18] <mfa298> even debugging code when you've got the current version in front of you can be a challenge (then it's usually time to dig out gdb)
[20:24] <fsphil> gdb's a last resort :)
[20:25] <kd2eat> Printf FTW.
[20:26] <mfa298> I actually learnt a bit more gdb the other day (attaching to a process and setting a temporary breakpoint)
[20:26] <mikestir> grrrr. why is it I can replace motherboard and cpu on a dual boot machine and linux doesn't even notice. windows - total car crash
[20:26] <mikestir> why does anyone still pay for that useless pile of c**p
[20:27] <fsphil> I was shocked recently when I couldn't even change the sata port my windows drive was plugged into
[20:27] <fsphil> it totally killed it
[20:28] <mikestir> oh yeah - along the lines of it having to reinstall the drivers for a usb device if you plug it into a different port
[20:28] <mikestir> even applies to memory sticks
[20:28] <mikestir> I mean wtf?
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[20:28] <fsphil> yea had that today with a printer
[20:29] <Babs_> if one reads "blah blah pins *broken out*", does that just mean that they are used?!?!
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[20:29] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:29] <bertrik> I understand "breaking out a pin" as making it accessible to connect something to it
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[20:30] <Upu> Babs_ if you break a pin out it means you put some sort of header on it to allow connect to something
[20:30] <Upu> my GPS boards basically break the GPS module pins out to a 2.54"" eader
[20:30] <Upu> header
[20:30] <Upu> or if you're in Yorkshire sentence needs no correction
[20:31] <Upu> I just translate for you Southerners
[20:31] <Babs_> arf
[20:31] <Babs_> i'm from the midlands
[20:31] <Babs_> it means i can throw disdain on both yorkshire and landan simultaneously
[20:31] <Upu> its below Sheffield
[20:31] <Upu> ergo "down south"
[20:31] <Babs_> so i was just looking at this http://www.billporter.info/2011/06/26/how-to-add-multiple-uart-connections/
[20:32] <mikestir> I think I'm directly in line with sheffield, so that's a lucky escape
[20:32] <fsphil> the scottish look down on you all :)
[20:32] <Babs_> and he says "Both headers had the ATMegas UART pins broken out"
[20:32] <fsphil> and sort of sideways at us
[20:32] <Babs_> so he obviously means they are both connected, i've just never understood the lingo
[20:36] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> 56N here.
[20:37] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[20:38] Action: SpeedEvil tries to remember who's around Alloa.
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[20:58] <Willdude> After making a python model it is very nealy working
[21:04] <Willdude> Apologies for the capitals but
[21:04] <Willdude> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[21:04] <Willdude> Thanks guys
[21:05] <Lunar_Lander> xD! yay
[21:07] <eroomde> weldone Willdude
[21:07] <eroomde> satisfaction is a series of small victories
[21:07] <Willdude> Now for the second part
[21:07] <Willdude> :P
[21:07] <eroomde> as an old boss used to say
[21:08] <Willdude> jk
[21:08] <Willdude> Second part can wait for tomorrow
[21:09] <Willdude> Oops. Wanted to backup my VM so copied every single file to a directory over FTP
[21:09] <Willdude> Probably a bad idea
[21:09] <mfa298> rsync
[21:09] <eroomde> yes
[21:10] <eroomde> or just, for belt and braces, copy the virtual hdd as a single blob once the vm has shut down
[21:10] <eroomde> ...but not while it's running!
[21:11] <Willdude> I made the decision not to submit my psets till the end of the year
[21:12] <Willdude> I've allocated up to a month per pset, and will use the remaining time for review
[21:12] <Willdude> The lectures really are pretty good
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[21:15] <Willdude> eroomde, what programming languages do you know?
[21:16] <Reb-SM3ULC> rsync for president
[21:18] <eroomde> Willdude: i mostly use python and c
[21:18] <eroomde> i guess i know bit of bash, enough for knocking up scripts to solve problems, but i've no idea how much of bash i know vs how much there is to know. probably not much
[21:19] <eroomde> i guess i know scheme
[21:19] <Willdude> Python looks weird to me now
[21:19] <eroomde> and have played with things like haskell but never done anything particularly serious or substantial with them
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> so this is it, finally done http://gerblook.org/pcb/EXAaf8nMziAjySAQsuAMxM
[21:19] <Willdude> It looks horribly ambiguous
[21:19] <eroomde> i have hacked some javascript but never written anything proper from scratch
[21:20] <Willdude> I can barely read python now
[21:20] <eroomde> it's basically python and c for me
[21:20] <eroomde> and c++ sometimes, usually if i need it fro a library
[21:20] <eroomde> the more you play around with different ones the more you'll find it easier to switch between them
[21:21] <eroomde> what might be really instructive for you is to take a problem and solve it in a couple of languages
[21:21] <eroomde> just to see how they compare
[21:21] <Willdude> Like a simple Project Euler question?
[21:21] <eroomde> yeah exactly
[21:21] <Willdude> I was introducing someone new to computer club the other day
[21:21] <Willdude> And she had no previous experience of programming
[21:21] <Willdude> So I started with binary
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[21:21] <eroomde> just trying to recreate a python dictionary in C would be a super useful exercise
[21:22] <eroomde> (and perhaps harder than you might at first think!)
[21:22] <mfa298> once you know a couple of languages the real trick is choosing the right one for a particular task.
[21:22] <Willdude> And this guy was just like "no that's not important"
[21:22] <Willdude> To be honest, I don't like the way programming is taught
[21:22] <Willdude> It's taught top-down
[21:22] <Willdude> That's why I like this course
[21:23] <eroomde> did you ever have a look at nand2tetris?
[21:23] <Willdude> It's bottom-up
[21:23] <Willdude> eroomde, to be honest, no. I forgot all about that
[21:23] <eroomde> sure sure, no probem, there are a billion courses to choose from
[21:23] <kd2eat> I like top down design, bottom-up implementation.
[21:23] <eroomde> but that's super from-bottom-up
[21:24] <eroomde> you go from switches to making gates, to making a binary adder, to making memory, then a whole processor, then machine code, then a virtual machine, then a programming language, then a game of tetris
[21:24] <eroomde> it really is from the bottom up
[21:24] <eroomde> you could read the book then make a tetris arcade game from nand chips
[21:24] <mclane> go for FORTRAN ;-)
[21:25] <eroomde> or an apollo guidance computer, or whatever
[21:25] <mclane> include as many goto s as you can ;-)
[21:25] <Willdude> Hmm
[21:25] <DL1SGP1> just do not mess up between metric and imperial if you wanna land on a planet :)
[21:25] <Willdude> DL1SGP1, apparently, float approximations have caused rocket crashes
[21:26] <Willdude> It might be best to finish this course first- as CS knowledge is listed as a pre-req
[21:26] <mclane> and do not forget to check the boundaries of integer representation
[21:26] <mclane> --> first Ariane V desaster - interger overflow
[21:26] <eroomde> yes totally
[21:26] <eroomde> take your time
[21:26] <eroomde> enjoy the ride
[21:26] <eroomde> it's all good, whatever you do
[21:26] <Willdude> eroomde, mind if I pm you about something quite OT?
[21:26] <eroomde> ok
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[21:28] <mclane> avoid C - go for Pascal
[21:28] <mclane> ;-)
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[21:29] <mfa298> or the other language who's name starts with P - Perl.
[21:31] <mfa298> although for someone more interested in programming Python is a better language these days (perl maybe more useful if you're going into sysadmin)
[21:31] <fsphil> I rarely encounter perl these days
[21:33] <kd2eat> Heh. I'm a sysadm. Use it daily. Venerable but still useful.
[21:33] <kd2eat> (I'm talking about Perl.. not me.)
[21:36] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
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[21:36] <eroomde> i'd like to learn perl
[21:36] <eroomde> but between bash and python, i tend to find myself not finding sufficient motivation to try it when i want to get something done
[21:37] <kd2eat> Heh. I'm the same way about Python. It's what "them kids today" use. I really should learn it, lest I get accused of being a fossil.
[21:39] <eroomde> i came at it from wanting a matlab replacement, so python worked for that
[21:39] <Willdude> Python is a bit too high level for starting out with I think]
[21:39] <Willdude> Only problem with this is CS gcse will be so easy
[21:39] <mfa298> the Raspberry Pi (and camera in particular) is the thing that's actually made me write some python code (as Python is the only language with a decent library)
[21:40] <Willdude> Looking at the spec, the project looks so easy I might submit it in Brainfuck for the fun of it
[21:41] <mfa298> I think starting off programming at a higher level is good to get the principle of things like loops and conditional statements.
[21:41] <Willdude> I suppose
[21:42] <Willdude> But as I said, at the moment I can barely read python
[21:42] <mfa298> trying to learn how loops work and memory managment and all the other stuff you get in a lower level language gives a lot to understand
[21:42] <eroomde> there's arguements for both
[21:43] <eroomde> if i had to design a course i'd do fpga dev and sicp
[21:43] <eroomde> and have them meet in the middle by having people design a lisp machine
[21:43] <eroomde> (for example)
[21:44] <mfa298> there's certainly a case for doing some really low level stuff so you get an idea of how processors work internally.
[21:44] <Willdude> If I were designing a course I'd make a gimmick that would make people focus, like money for every question you get right
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[21:59] <mfa298> I think someone took HAB tracking a bit far https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=435509786582003&set=a.208444109288573.53131.110006902465628&type=1
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[23:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> mfa298, Glad my mobile setup isn't as extreme as the one above http://www.g8dhe.net/pictures/2013%5C06%5C20130601%5CDSCF5489.thn.JPG
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[23:08] <ian_T> It strikes me that it's more a case of careful photography and convenient props!
[23:08] <Geoff-G8DHE> :-)
[23:09] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://www.g8dhe.net/pictures\2013\06\20130601\DSCF5485.JPG
[23:10] <fsphil> slash clash
[23:11] <ian_T> Something like that in the bottom of the garden would be quite good if it were mine.
[23:11] <Geoff-G8DHE> Indeed cut&paste and fill in ;-)
[23:11] <fsphil> whoever thought \ was a good idea needs a punch
[23:12] <ian_T> I'm lurking in the hope that Anthony Stirk turns up, as I have a question or two about the NXT2B tx - Ian G0PAI
[23:12] <Geoff-G8DHE> Depends if your left or right handed ....
[23:12] <Willdude> ian_T, ping him
[23:12] <Willdude> If you mention his nickname
[23:12] <Willdude> His client makes a sound
[23:12] <Willdude> And flashes
[23:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> He has lots of clients do they all flash ?
[23:13] <ian_T> Thanks, New to IRC, but learning. Not sure what his Nickname is - - - probably!
[23:13] <Willdude> Upu
[23:13] <fsphil> you'll probably not get him this late at night
[23:13] <ian_T> I take it that's the Nick and not a comment :-)
[23:14] <Upu> I was just about to log
[23:14] <Upu> evening ian_T is it a quick one ? :)
[23:14] <ian_T> Hi Anthony. A quick one.
[23:14] <Upu> super
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[23:15] <ian_T> Looking to purchase a couple of NTX2B tx and like the idea of being able to change the freq. Not unwilling to wait
[23:16] <ian_T> What are the options?
[23:16] <Upu> ok
[23:16] <Upu> the ones you buy now are fixed
[23:16] <Upu> My programming rig turned up today
[23:16] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/MSLdwG1.jpg
[23:17] <Upu> but the pogo pins are the wrong size so I've ordered some more
[23:17] <Upu> I'm hoping I should be in a position to ship ones you can amend the frequency on by Monday
[23:17] <Upu> I'll announcing it on the mailing list
[23:17] <arko> nice!
[23:17] <ian_T> Rgr, I will wait and read the mailing list. No other options that you need to know?
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[23:17] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[23:18] <Upu> yup PM
[23:18] <ian_T> Many thanks.
[23:18] <Upu> private message
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[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> Upu, cool system
[23:19] <Upu> thx
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:19] <Upu> right I really need to log up at 6am
[23:19] <Upu> bb tommorrow night all
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[23:20] <ian_T> Good night. Trying to figure out how to access PM's, Using Konversation at this end.
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> ah KDE Linux?
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[23:21] <ian_T> Think I have it on the tab! Thanks all, more - not many - questions later.
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:22] <Lunar_Lander> good to have you here
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[23:24] <ian_T> Connector standards in HAB use - SMA rather than Reverse SMA?
[23:25] <mattbrejza> normal sma
[23:25] <mfa298> Reverse SMA is an evil that should be burnt
[23:26] <mattbrejza> rv sma only really exists on consumer wifi stuff
[23:26] <mattbrejza> and weird ebay items
[23:26] <ian_T> Yes, SUSE 2.12, due an upgrade much prefer KDE to others, but they managed change it a lot . . . Argh
[23:27] <ian_T> I'm all for weird eBay items. but admit that RSMA confuses an otherwise simple question.
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[23:30] <fsphil> ok RSMA is worse than \
[23:30] <Lunar_Lander> what is reverse SMA?
[23:31] <mattbrejza> sma thats had a sex change
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:31] <mattbrejza> from the outside looks the same but then you realise the mating part has been changed
[23:31] <fsphil> https://d37wxxhohlp07s.cloudfront.net/s3_images/840679/SMA-RPSMA.png
[23:31] <fsphil> invented just to mess with people
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> damn
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> yea that is bad
[23:32] <fsphil> you can quite happly connect an RPSMA plug to an SMA socket
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> I mean I had a stupid error ordering Male SMA when I needed Female
[23:32] <fsphil> and only the shield is connected
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> but that is crappy
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:32] <fsphil> this has happened on some HAB flights
[23:32] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[23:33] <mattbrejza> not sure why 434 kit comes in rpsma though
[23:33] <mattbrejza> BNC ftw :P
[23:33] <mattbrejza> shame you cant get side pcb mount ones :( (any more)
[23:33] <fsphil> yea the lock on BNC is nice
[23:33] <fsphil> SMA can loosen
[23:33] <fsphil> all too easily
[23:34] <mattbrejza> thats why you should have a calibrated sma torque wrench in our launch kit :)
[23:34] <mattbrejza> *your
[23:34] <fsphil> lol
[23:34] <mattbrejza> the calibration cost will probably be more than your payload
[23:34] <mfa298> even ukhas has the answer of what rp-sma looks like http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:rf_connectors
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> I am happy that I got 43 of the 44 pins of the atmega644P to good use
[23:37] <Willdude> Why are PL259s bad?
[23:37] <mfa298> they're not 50R at any useful frequency
[23:38] <mattbrejza> has anyone actually netan'ed one yet?
[23:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> They can also be a pig to solder the braid correctly.
[23:41] <Willdude> Why do so many radio use them
[23:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> Because they work quiet happily upto about 2m
[23:41] <mfa298> they're ok for HF
[23:41] <mfa298> and cheap
[23:42] <mfa298> and doing something else would mean change!
[23:42] <mattbrejza> anything pro will have something more appriate
[23:46] <fsphil> my expensive yaesu has them :(
[23:46] <fsphil> weirdly the diamond 2m/70cm colinear has it too
[23:47] <fsphil> you'd think N was just obvious
[23:47] <Darkside> you can get versions of the diamonds with N connctors
[23:47] <Darkside> mine has them
[23:47] <fsphil> yep
[23:47] <fsphil> I didn't know better at the time
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> btw
[23:49] <Lunar_Lander> someone suggested hooking a small MOSFET to a spare pin on my board "if you want to drive something big"
[23:50] <Lunar_Lander> wouldn't have an idea what to do with that however
[23:50] <mattbrejza> tbh you can just wire one externally if you ever needed it
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[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:59] <DL7AD_> morning+
[23:59] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[23:59] <DL7AD_> hi Lunar_Lander
[23:59] <DL7AD_> Lunar_Lander: got it to work!!! :D
[00:00] --- Thu Feb 20 2014