highaltitude.log.20140218

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[00:23] <ian__> Hi, In the UK I see 458.700MHz band as being good for airborne unlienced, yet see 434MHz Txrs listed on HAB store site. Does EU cover UK in this case?
[00:25] <craag> Yes. The 434 band is in IR2030 as well.
[00:26] <craag> IR2030/1/12
[00:26] <craag> 434.04 - 434.79MHz
[00:27] <ian__> Many thanks craag. RAYNET Group is thinking of dabbling as a training exercise to use some of our amateur radio skills.
[00:27] <craag> Ah cool. Which group?
[00:27] <ian__> Sandwell RAYNET Group.
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[00:28] <craag> Great, will have to suggest it to my group also :P (sw hants)
[00:29] <ian__> Rgr, hr G0PAI. No flooding at your QTH I hope.
[00:31] <ian__> In the Group we have Arduino, Raspberry Pi and Picaxe dabblers. I'm one of the latter.
[00:31] <WillTablet> I'm really impressed with this CS course
[00:31] <craag> M0DNY here. Nothing down here really, everything's on a hillside. EPO asked us for availibility but we got nothing more.
[00:32] <ian__> We didn't hear from our EPO at all. Reckon that if anything goes wrong they will be working from the bunker . . . optimistic
[00:32] <craag> ha
[00:33] <WillTablet> craag: do you operate much?
[00:33] <craag> We've just kicked off a Pi project in our group, but the guy who's heading it is a java dev.
[00:33] <craag> So everyone else has abandoned it.
[00:33] <craag> :/
[00:34] <craag> WillTablet: Not really, I chat with locals on 2m FM, but that's it.
[00:34] <WillTablet> Simplex I presume?
[00:34] <craag> Simplex from the qth, through SN on the commute
[00:34] <WillTablet> HF is fascinating, yet I've met a number of hams who only do vhf uhf
[00:34] <WillTablet> Ah, coverage of that not great here
[00:35] <ian__> Most of my radio work is on three skeds a week. Not investigated APRS. I only seem to do VHF/UHF
[00:35] <ian__> I was a telegraphist in a previous existance
[00:35] <craag> I do a lot of HF with the uni club, but can't really justify the money on kit myself.
[00:36] <ian__> I had a hobby an nowhere to do it, got married had somewhere to do it and no cash. Kids all grew up and now I have somewhere and pennies
[00:36] <craag> I spend too much money on processor dev boards and small radio modules (GSM/ISM).
[00:36] <craag> hehe
[00:36] <ian__> I spend a lot on little electronic bargains from China. You need to see the size of my bits box
[00:37] <craag> I'm a student doing radio mesh networking as my individual project at uni, and building gsm modems at work, I do enough radio operation outside ham bands!
[00:37] <WillTablet> Ah that's cool
[00:38] <WillTablet> ian__: Heh. When/if I get married I'll make sure I find a woman/man tolerant of radio, heck maybe even meet a ham
[00:38] <WillTablet> Or get a fixer-upper - introduce them to ham radio
[00:39] <craag> ian__: Singular box? I have farnell boxes up to the ceiling here... (academic account :D )
[00:39] <WillTablet> :-P
[00:39] <ian__> That is cool. I left the services soooome time ago and eventually got into amaterure radio. The wife complained about the noise and I
[00:39] <WillTablet> craag: academic account? What benefits does that give?
[00:39] <ian__> said that she wasn't complaining while it was putting bread and butter on the table. She replied that she didn't have to listen to it then ! tolerant now though
[00:40] <craag> WillTablet: Don't pay VAT.
[00:40] <WillTablet> I think I will ?
[00:40] <WillTablet> *:-P
[00:40] <ian__> I thought someone else's cash?
[00:41] <craag> ian__: No not quite... the uni are a bit careful about that.
[00:41] <ian__> Not convertable to beer tokens then! Just as well,
[00:41] <craag> haha
[00:42] <ian__> There is some wicked kit out there now and it can only get better. I would love to buy a 3GHz spectrum analyser, but can't justify it - even to myself.
[00:42] <craag> Anyway I've gotta head off, lecture first slot tomorrow. Good to talk to you ian__ and I look forward to hearing how your group gets on!
[00:43] <ian__> Rgr. Thanks for the IR2030 ref and I'll check in again as things get underway on the HAB project. Regards es 73
[00:44] <ian__> Goodnight all. An amateur radio licence is worth having as even talking to yourself can be classed as research.
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[07:22] <DL7AD> morning
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[08:42] <Laurenceb_> http://gushh.net/tmp/arduinoshield.png
[08:43] <fsphil> yea can't have people learning how to use microcontrollers
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[08:57] <LeoBodnar> morning *
[08:57] <fsphil> *
[08:57] <daveake> .
[08:58] <daveake> ^ small *
[08:58] <daveake> trust me
[08:58] <fsphil>
[08:58] <daveake> impressive :)
[08:58] <fsphil> you need an ultra-HD screen for that
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[09:12] <cm13g09> moaning all
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[09:21] <LeoBodnar> *
[09:22] <LeoBodnar> that was one pixel from full sized HD resolution "*" on my 42" screen
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[09:44] <mfa298> or is the . like one of the olympic opening cermony in that it hadn't opened properly to being a *
[09:46] <LeoBodnar> every * wants to be an O
[09:47] <nats`> Am I the only one to see dirty things in that sentence ? :D
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[11:19] <DL1SGP1> hi all!
[11:22] <ibanezmatt13> morning
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[11:24] <DL1SGP1> heh matt
[11:24] <DL1SGP1> all going fine with you?
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[11:30] <fsphil> Tuesdays. There's little good can be said about them
[11:30] <fsphil> anyone launching this weekend?
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[11:56] <Oddstr13> now, *this* must be a digital mode of some sort
[11:56] <Oddstr13> http://www.twitch.tv/oddstr13
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[12:01] <Oddstr13> anyone have any idea of what it might be?
[12:02] <fsphil> not necessarly a digital mode
[12:03] <fsphil> what frequency?
[12:03] <Oddstr13> 499.997.563
[12:03] <fsphil> the burst you're hearing is likely a digital signal
[12:03] <Oddstr13> duno if it's properly calibrated tho
[12:04] <fsphil> but it's a little lower in frequency than where you're tuned
[12:04] <fsphil> and probably FM
[12:04] <Oddstr13> yea
[12:04] <Oddstr13> i was thinking about the other signal
[12:04] <fsphil> the tone is likely just a carrier radiating of some ethernet cable somewhere
[12:04] <fsphil> not sure what the fluttery noise is
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[12:05] <fsphil> sounds like a tap running
[12:05] <fsphil> it actually sounds a bit like dominoex
[12:05] <Oddstr13> or olivia
[12:05] <fsphil> or thor
[12:06] <fsphil> it's very unlikely to be any of those modes
[12:06] <fsphil> not at that frequency
[12:06] <fsphil> but it could be some kind of telemetry system
[12:07] <Oddstr13> i guess i'll try FM on that signal to the left
[12:08] <fsphil> yea that's definitly data
[12:08] <fsphil> you might hear some met sondes down at 400-404mhz right now
[12:09] <fsphil> there should be a few in the air
[12:11] <Oddstr13> do you know what this signal might be?
[12:12] <Oddstr13> i have seen it all over the 400MHz
[12:12] <fsphil> could be local QRM from your computer
[12:12] <nats`> Oddstr13 a good way to know if it's local is to change the antenna or remove it
[12:13] <nats`> usually spurious from PLL and buses in computer are easy to spot
[12:14] <Oddstr13> that burst was simmilar to what i saw at around 500MHz
[12:14] <fsphil> the sondes will sound like that data signal you heard earlier
[12:15] <Oddstr13> like the example on rtl-sdr.com?
[12:18] <Oddstr13> aaand my gpu driver died, and took OBS with it
[12:18] Nick change: clopez_ -> clopez
[12:19] <Oddstr13> fsphil: anyway, i'm looking for NFM?
[12:21] <fsphil> nfm for most of the data modes on uhf
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[12:31] <Oddstr13> seems to be bursts of data at 0.405.601.430
[12:33] <Oddstr13> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4306267/random/2014-02-18_133306_0000561.png
[12:37] <nats`> could be a meteo balloon on that range
[12:37] <nats`> you can try to decode it
[12:38] <Oddstr13> sounds like bursts of noise tho
[12:39] <Oddstr13> also, just silence atm
[12:40] <nats`> https://www.coaa.co.uk/sondemonitor.htm
[12:40] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz2id1cBmjs
[12:41] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Oddstr13, try this the lower left is the M10 kit used in Europe and the Lower right are the SGP ones in the UK http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2013_Flights/WeatherSondes/Capture.JPG
[12:41] <fsphil> this is what most of the met sondes sound like
[12:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> If your in the UK Cambourne Sonde is up at the menoment on 404.2MHz
[12:42] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> *moment
[12:43] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Larkhill is on 404.4MHz and Herstmonceux on 404.8MHz
[12:43] <fsphil> castor bay on 402.7 iirc
[12:43] <fsphil> it's usually active at 12:00
[12:44] <Oddstr13> yay, my computer BSOD'd
[12:44] <fsphil> windows!
[12:44] <Oddstr13> ATI.
[12:44] <Oddstr13> should never have updated those graphics drivers
[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Also on 404.0 M10 is Brest a bit weak but there if your in range
[12:45] <Oddstr13> i guess i'll have to go dig on my harddrive for the old ones..
[12:46] <Oddstr13> Geoff-G8DHE-M: i'm in Norway
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[12:47] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> In which case none of the above really applies :-(
[12:47] <fsphil> unless it gets really windy
[12:47] <Oddstr13> hehe
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[13:18] <costyn> afternoon all
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[13:20] <BalloonYOLO> Hoping to launch a balloon next week!
[13:21] <BalloonYOLO> Just created a flight doc
[13:21] <BalloonYOLO> EAL TEST
[13:21] <BalloonYOLO> Please approve/help track!
[13:22] <mattbrejza> im sure people will help, afterall a balloon launched on the weekend without notification got a very large number of people tracking
[13:23] <fsphil> howdy costyn
[13:23] <mattbrejza> btw post flight doc id on #habhub for approval (otherwise it gets lost here)
[13:23] <BalloonYOLO> Window from monday to thurs.. lets hope the jet stream is merciful
[13:23] <costyn> fsphil: how are things here?
[13:23] <fsphil> not too bad costyn, you?
[13:24] <costyn> fsphil: doing good of course :)
[13:24] <fsphil> haha
[13:24] <costyn> fsphil: not much time for hobbies; brought all my electronics stuff but haven't played with any of it since I got here
[13:25] <fsphil> you're still on the island then?
[13:25] <fsphil> that must be awful for you ;)
[13:27] <costyn> yep it sucks here
[13:27] <costyn> :P
[13:27] <costyn> so any cool projects? I saw the artic circle challenge; looks cool
[13:27] <UpuWork> BalloonYOLO done some predictions ?
[13:29] <BalloonYOLO> Yeah, next week not looking great - but were optimistic
[13:30] <fsphil> LeoBodnar recently won that costyn
[13:30] <UpuWork> and by won
[13:30] <UpuWork> he destroyed it
[13:30] <costyn> fsphil: ah, the wiki page should be updated I guess :)
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[13:50] <WillDWork> any news on the MTX2s?
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[14:01] <DL1SGP1> ah still alive :)
[14:07] <WillTablet> mfw YOLO is still a thing
[14:11] <fsphil> http://hackaday.com/2014/02/18/stm32-nucleo-the-mbed-enabled-arduino-compatable-board/
[14:11] <fsphil> neat
[14:12] <gonzo_> hehe, just looked at the arctic challenge pahes, like rule 8 !
[14:13] <gonzo_> pages
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[14:24] <mattbrejza> first comment on had: "32-bit microcontrollers are slower than 8-bit AVRs so they clock them with higher frequencies. Ill stick with my good old Arduino."
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[14:29] <craag> oh lol
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> lol gonzo_
[14:33] <fsphil> well that's told us
[14:38] <WillTablet> Wow
[14:38] <WillTablet> Windows Azure just phoned me
[14:38] <WillTablet> Impressive
[14:39] <WillTablet> I told him to email me as I'm uncomfortable with phoning people
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[14:42] <fsphil> how rude of Mr.Azure
[14:43] <WillTablet> Haha
[14:43] <WillTablet> Someone there did
[14:43] <WillTablet> When they asked why, I didn't have the heart to tell them I was mining dogecoin
[14:44] <WillTablet> Ima get rid of my VMS and start doing something productive
[14:44] <mattbrejza> dogecoin mining you say, http://dogeminer.se
[14:46] <WillTablet> I feel really bad now
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[14:47] <costyn> mattbrejza: haha nice one
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[14:51] Action: WillTablet cancels azure vm
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[15:01] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[15:10] <fsphil> yoyo
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[17:49] <x-f> http://thequickword.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/james-irys-history-of-programming-languages-illustrated-with-pictures-and-large-fonts/
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[18:40] <fsphil> aaaah, home sweet home. now to wash the taste of VB6 away with some C
[18:41] <chrisstubbs> I'm surprised you allow such things
[18:42] <fsphil> me too
[18:42] <eroomde> nice cup of C and a sit-down
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[19:07] <K5KXF> good day! all
[19:08] <K5KXF> heading out to work outside but thought I'd login to see what's up
[19:09] <jcoxon> K5KXF, i think people are recovering from the weekend of launches!
[19:09] <K5KXF> yes very exciting
[19:09] <bertrik> today felt a bit like spring for me, you can really notice the days getting longer now
[19:10] <K5KXF> yes we are digging out
[19:11] <fsphil> first day I got to drive home without the headlights on
[19:11] <fsphil> I should really fix that
[19:11] <K5KXF> nice
[19:12] <fsphil> won't be long before there's actual sunlight
[19:12] <fsphil> I've not seen the sun during the week since November
[19:12] <K5KXF> yeah makes it hard to get work done
[19:12] <SpeedEvil> It was sunny here a couple of days ago
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> Which was nice
[19:13] <fsphil> mmm makes a change
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> Replaced crystal in an RTL dingle with a feed from Rubidium frequency standard. Should improve stability a bit.
[19:13] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:13] <fsphil> a bit
[19:13] <K5KXF> speaking of I gotta go work on mission control
[19:13] <K5KXF> while it's nice today
[19:14] <K5KXF> logged in I can chatch up later
[19:14] <K5KXF> enjoy
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[19:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: slightly better..
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[19:16] <K5KXF> WB8ELK looks ver familiar
[19:17] <K5KXF> callsign you been doing balloons long?
[19:17] <eroomde> the longest
[19:17] <K5KXF> What group?
[19:17] <eroomde> who needs a group
[19:17] <K5KXF> EOSS?
[19:18] <K5KXF> Cant place where I know from
[19:18] <eroomde> it's bill brown
[19:18] <eroomde> he invented amateur ballooning
[19:20] <K5KXF> Perhaps ATV WB8ELK do any NBTV?
[19:20] <eroomde> it's like you can't hear me
[19:21] <K5KXF> eroomde I hear you
[19:22] <K5KXF> I was trying for MB8ELK
[19:22] <eroomde> heard of HAL5?
[19:22] <K5KXF> sounds famillar
[19:22] <LeoBodnar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpEfHFOwnSI
[19:22] <eroomde> rockoon
[19:23] <K5KXF> from far back
[19:23] <K5KXF> Catts Prize?
[19:23] <eroomde> 90's
[19:23] <K5KXF> yes offshore attempt
[19:23] <K5KXF> in the Gulf
[19:24] <K5KXF> correct?
[19:25] <eroomde> yes
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[19:26] <eroomde> also http://chapters.nss.org/al/HAL5/HAL5_old/HALO/SL-2/
[19:27] <K5KXF> Nice link there LeoBodnar
[19:27] <eroomde> http://chapters.nss.org/al/HAL5/HALO-Intro.shtml
[19:28] <K5KXF> very similar to our current work
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[19:29] <K5KXF> indeed
[19:30] <K5KXF> well I guess he's eithe too busy or dosen't want to talk
[19:31] <eroomde> always good when people are too busy to talk
[19:31] <eroomde> infrequent, high quality updates
[19:31] <K5KXF> ah well
[19:32] <K5KXF> he's not looking for help or funding then I suppose
[19:33] <K5KXF> must be nice
[19:33] <eroomde> not sure #ha is the place to find funding!
[19:33] <fsphil> there's a very Amiga vibe to that video of Bill's
[19:34] <K5KXF> perhaps for help though
[19:34] <K5KXF> Perhaps video toaster
[19:34] <fsphil> "edge of space" ... so this is not a new thing
[19:34] <K5KXF> not sence Van Allen I suspect
[19:35] <K5KXF> the 50's
[19:35] <K5KXF> certianly not new
[19:36] <K5KXF> but now aforadable!
[19:36] <eroomde> affordable is just a function of who you ask
[19:37] <K5KXF> depends on the payload indeed
[19:37] <eroomde> yeah, i don't think any amateurs are threatening the van allen belts
[19:37] <K5KXF> We are indeed going after them
[19:38] <K5KXF> We have the balloon and the rocket motor to get there
[19:39] <eroomde> they start at 1000km don't they?
[19:39] <K5KXF> no Van Allen never got that high
[19:39] <eroomde> 19:37 < eroomde> yeah, i don't think any amateurs are threatening the van allen belts
[19:39] <fsphil> the inner belt starts at 1000km
[19:39] <eroomde> 19:37 < K5KXF> We are indeed going after them
[19:40] <fsphil> down to 200km over south africa for some reason
[19:40] <K5KXF> how mant meters is 4000 miles
[19:40] <fsphil> atlantic*
[19:40] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Atlantic_Anomaly
[19:40] <fsphil> sibot!!! nooooooo
[19:40] <K5KXF> no SIBot?
[19:41] <mattbrejza> craag: ?
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[19:42] <fsphil> "NASA has reported that modern laptops have crashed when space shuttle flights passed through the anomaly"
[19:43] <K5KXF> 6437.38 km is my ultamate goal
[19:43] <fsphil> I would imagine this would include non-radiation hardened MCU's
[19:43] <eroomde> down to the last ten metres!
[19:43] <K5KXF> depends on funding
[19:44] <K5KXF> yep down to the last ten meters
[19:44] <eroomde> what's the significance of that altitude?
[19:44] <K5KXF> Can still take advantage of GPS
[19:45] <K5KXF> and it's the highest rockoon flight ever
[19:45] <K5KXF> beating Farside
[19:45] <fsphil> gps could work further out
[19:46] <eroomde> yeah
[19:46] <K5KXF> it get's worse farther out
[19:46] <fsphil> wouldn't be as accurate
[19:46] <K5KXF> right
[19:46] <eroomde> would have though a kilometer would be good enough though out at that distance
[19:46] <eroomde> it's still 0.1% accurate on altitude :)
[19:46] <fsphil> yea, plus if it's coasting once you know the direction and speed the rest of the journey can be calculated
[19:46] <fsphil> no annoying winds to randomise things
[19:47] <K5KXF> calculated altitude wond do :)
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[19:47] <eroomde> ranging would probably be simpler
[19:47] <K5KXF> No one amature has even proven space yet
[19:47] <eroomde> i am confident that space exists
[19:47] <fsphil> a US amateur flight had gone higher than 100km
[19:48] <K5KXF> with nothing for data but accelerometer
[19:48] <K5KXF> not enough proof for me
[19:48] <eroomde> i'm also interested in at what point an amateur becomes a pro
[19:48] <K5KXF> not even a photo
[19:49] <eroomde> like, if they're good enough at space things for people to give them money to do space things while they work on their project, are they still amateur?
[19:49] <K5KXF> Your right eroomde
[19:49] <K5KXF> hard to say
[19:49] <K5KXF> I am still an amature by all means
[19:50] <K5KXF> I have given up getting the funding anyway
[19:50] <K5KXF> July is to be our first attempt at space
[19:50] <K5KXF> 100km
[19:51] <K5KXF> April test is coming up fast
[19:51] <eroomde> i'm not sure that launching an ambitious project like that just hoping for funding is really the most efficient way to go about things
[19:51] <K5KXF> Well I am just a guy on a mission
[19:52] <eroomde> i say 'just hoping' not to dismiss your efforts i'm sure you've mad as mere hope, but i mean to just try and get people to give you money to play
[19:52] <K5KXF> I'm no fund raising expert
[19:52] <eroomde> if you're competant, people will pay you to do relevent things
[19:53] <K5KXF> Well I only have the one mission
[19:53] <eroomde> you'll drop in a cnc mill and lathe to a proposal here, electronics test equipment in a proposal there, charge out at a cost that means you only have to work for someone else about 50% of the time
[19:53] <eroomde> sure, but that's just matyrdom rather than engineering
[19:53] <K5KXF> yeah and that's still too much time
[19:54] <eroomde> you can achieve what you want sooner and better by not doing that
[19:54] <eroomde> i'm sure of it
[19:54] <K5KXF> After 7 years work I'm confidant we can succeed
[19:54] <K5KXF> in the next 2 years without a doubt
[19:54] <K5KXF> without any funding at all
[19:54] <eroomde> sure
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[19:55] <eroomde> but you probably could have done it in half the time with a different strategy
[19:55] <K5KXF> yes I made a mistake long ago
[19:55] <eroomde> i'm just saying, the david vs goliath, martydom thing i've seen fail so many times, it put me off
[19:56] <K5KXF> but I have just about overcome the issues
[19:56] <K5KXF> this year you'll be impressed I'm sure
[19:56] <K5KXF> very soon now
[19:57] <eroomde> like, we put together a first stab at a hovering rocket in about 4 weeks with 3 of us, just because we had machine tools and offcuts lying around from doing other work
[19:57] <K5KXF> if I get out there today and get to work lol
[19:57] <eroomde> but it would have cost way too much for me to do out of my own money
[19:57] <K5KXF> Yeah this has been 90% my money
[19:58] <K5KXF> and my time
[19:58] <K5KXF> 7 years now
[19:58] <K5KXF> so yeah I have some stuff
[19:58] <eroomde> i'm sure that's, by far, the thing taking it take much longer than it should
[19:58] <eroomde> trying to self-fund
[19:58] <eroomde> a bit like everyone groans when people propose self funding a PhD
[19:58] <K5KXF> Well like I said I'm not a very good fund raiser
[19:58] <eroomde> sure
[19:58] <eroomde> but there's asking people to pay for you to play
[19:59] <K5KXF> I do that?
[19:59] <eroomde> and there's being able to make money as a business by selling some time
[19:59] <K5KXF> no I ask people to join me
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> Academia was like that in 60s-80s
[20:00] <K5KXF> well that's when I'm from ya know :)
[20:00] <eroomde> also fundraising is easy once you have some proof of concept hardware
[20:00] <eroomde> funding councils pay attention
[20:00] <K5KXF> not true there
[20:00] <K5KXF> I've flow many proofs
[20:00] <K5KXF> flown
[20:00] <eroomde> you must be presenting it wrong
[20:01] <K5KXF> yeah I don't think people believe me
[20:01] <K5KXF> lol
[20:01] <LeoBodnar> one of the Skunkworks rules...
[20:01] <K5KXF> I just throw it out there all I can do
[20:01] <eroomde> which one?
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[20:01] <eroomde> teams must been kept small in an almost vicious manner?
[20:02] <K5KXF> Yeah I've never gotten the local guy's and that's the biggest prob.
[20:02] <K5KXF> so I have to do most of the work myself
[20:03] <K5KXF> and it is slow
[20:03] <eroomde> do you have any facilities?
[20:03] <eroomde> eg can you sell time on an instrumented rocket test stand?
[20:03] <K5KXF> I had a Phd on my team local but he was well
[20:03] <K5KXF> Yes if you accept my equipment
[20:04] <K5KXF> only to 300 lbs thrust
[20:04] <eroomde> i'm sure that would be useful to people
[20:04] <eroomde> assuming your equipment met basic standards of accuracy and whatever
[20:04] <K5KXF> I have a thermal vacuum chamber
[20:04] <eroomde> and that kind of thing is easily $1k/day
[20:05] <K5KXF> I have hardware in the loop testing available
[20:05] <K5KXF> things like that
[20:05] <K5KXF> Your right eroomde I don't know how to seel services
[20:06] <K5KXF> sell
[20:06] <K5KXF> and never meet anyone that could access and do that with us
[20:06] <eroomde> selling is universal
[20:07] <eroomde> be it a technical idea to a team member of testing hours to a project manager
[20:07] <eroomde> or*
[20:07] <K5KXF> I believe once mission control is completed and we do the April mission things will change
[20:07] <eroomde> let's hope
[20:07] <eroomde> universities are good
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[20:08] <eroomde> easy to get a few $10k's of work into a funding application as part of a bigger project
[20:08] <K5KXF> yes I had some interest from UT
[20:08] <K5KXF> but now I live in Lampasas to be able to do test
[20:08] <K5KXF> We have a great launch site for big rockets on Matagorda
[20:09] <K5KXF> and static test
[20:09] <eroomde> yeah that sounds pretty cool
[20:09] <K5KXF> it is really cool if you go there and check it out
[20:09] <eroomde> a big site where you can make noise and know how to conduct rocket tests is definitely sellable
[20:09] <eroomde> definately
[20:10] <K5KXF> the only catch is it's only accessable by boat or plane
[20:10] <eroomde> oh
[20:10] <K5KXF> we have our own private runway
[20:10] <K5KXF> 6000 ft!
[20:11] <K5KXF> 5000+ acers
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[20:11] <K5KXF> I guess the way I present thigs is all wrong
[20:11] <K5KXF> I have to yachts and some private pilots to do recoveries
[20:12] <K5KXF> all kinds of crap around here lol
[20:12] <K5KXF> 2 100ft antennas
[20:12] <eroomde> too much enthusiasm can scare off people who make spending decions
[20:12] <K5KXF> tracking alone shoud be worth something
[20:12] <eroomde> it's all presentation
[20:13] <K5KXF> yeah I must really suck at that
[20:13] <eroomde> they like a sort of calm competance, and ideally a track record - getting that first successful project is the hard bit
[20:13] <K5KXF> yeah I guess it's the April launch to clarify things for me
[20:14] <eroomde> all my friends who've tried to start a company said the hardest thing was getting that first success, that makes it worth quitting the day job and going full time
[20:14] <K5KXF> anyway I'm over loading the IRC channel
[20:14] <eroomde> i'll be watching the april test with interest
[20:14] <eroomde> it'd be a big amateur milestone
[20:14] <K5KXF> Thanks for you comments my friend
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[20:14] <K5KXF> I am listening
[20:15] <K5KXF> Oh I'm pretty confident about the April mission
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[20:15] <K5KXF> we already had a successful fly back
[20:15] <K5KXF> in September
[20:16] <K5KXF> after 3 crashes
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[20:16] <WillTablet> What is the April test?
[20:16] <K5KXF> #4 was the charm
[20:16] <K5KXF> A Rocket boosted Glider called X-11E
[20:17] <K5KXF> from 100kft
[20:17] <K5KXF> It's really the debut for our mission control too
[20:18] <K5KXF> with live video tracking and telemetry
[20:18] <K5KXF> just working out the final details of the video system
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[20:19] <K5KXF> 70 miles is our current record for video
[20:19] <K5KXF> We consider only quality video
[20:20] <K5KXF> when it cuts out or fades it's no good
[20:21] <K5KXF> We have done 4 rockoon but I don't advertize them
[20:21] <K5KXF> the reasion being it's too contriversial
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[20:22] <K5KXF> and it would stir up too much crap I think
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[20:22] <K5KXF> We dont want to mess with our chances for the space shot rockoon with too much contriversy
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[20:24] <eroomde> why would a rockoon flight be controversial?
[20:26] <K5KXF> FAA aproval
[20:26] <LeoBodnar> = illegal ?
[20:26] <K5KXF> no
[20:27] <K5KXF> but posiablly contraversial
[20:27] <K5KXF> 128 grams of propellant = Class on rocket
[20:27] <K5KXF> one
[20:27] <K5KXF> No waiver needed
[20:28] <K5KXF> I started a discussion on arocket about it
[20:28] <K5KXF> it did not go well so we don't discuss rockoon with less tha or up too 126 grams of propellant
[20:29] <K5KXF> first rockoon https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150277237436224&set=a.10150277235931224.372558.213171526223&type=1&theater
[20:30] <K5KXF> That was 3 years ago
[20:31] <K5KXF> we perfected how to launch them by the #4 launch
[20:32] <K5KXF> getting the propellant to light consistantly took a thermal vacuum chamber to figure out
[20:32] <K5KXF> that's why I now have one
[20:32] <eroomde> yeah that's a good problem to solve
[20:33] <K5KXF> It was not as easy as predicted
[20:33] <K5KXF> for sure
[20:33] <K5KXF> We thought BPN would be the amwser
[20:34] <K5KXF> Boron Potassium Nitrate
[20:34] <K5KXF> NOT
[20:34] <K5KXF> NASA uses it but it did not work well for us
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[20:35] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:35] <K5KXF> Getting them to launch at prediced altitude was also not so easy to solve
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[20:37] <K5KXF> Ok I gottqa go
[20:38] <eroomde> good luck
[20:38] <K5KXF> I'll be back later
[20:38] <K5KXF> thanks again
[20:40] <Babs_> yo eroomde
[20:41] <eroomde> yo Babs_
[20:41] <Babs_> stabilotron II lives http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/12406410224/
[20:42] <eroomde> beautiful!
[20:42] <Babs_> went all around the houses for someone that could machine aluminium, ended up asking the guy who machined the carbon fibre and he said he could do it
[20:42] <Babs_> duh........
[20:43] <Babs_> i'm pleased it all fitted together
[20:43] <eroomde> bet you're pleased generally
[20:43] <eroomde> looks proper-job
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[20:44] <Babs_> all the adjustment bits work to get it balanced, I'm just waiting on the electronics to actually connect it up and get it stabilised
[20:44] <steve_2e0vet> evning
[20:44] <Babs_> evening
[20:45] <steve_2e0vet> can anyone recommenday injection moulding compaies?
[20:45] <eroomde> totally beyond my experience
[20:45] <arko> Babs_: holy cow man
[20:45] <arko> thats beautiful
[20:45] <eroomde> all i know if that the moulds are about 10x as expensive as you estimate they might be
[20:46] <mattbrejza> Babs_: are you going to have to do something with the box to stop it rotating in the opposite direction?
[20:46] <eroomde> is that*
[20:46] <Babs_> thanks arko
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[20:46] <arko> want
[20:46] <Babs_> mattbrejza - I think the only thing I really need to do is to keep the weights of the top half and bottom half slightly different
[20:47] <Babs_> in fact, having them closer together should make for finer adjustment in the z-axis
[20:47] <Babs_> arko, so I was thinking about your camera board thing
[20:48] <arko> :)
[20:48] <Babs_> it would fit on the top of here, pointing upwards http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/12568489334/
[20:48] <mattbrejza> yea i guess letting the other side rotate in the other direction isnt really an issue
[20:48] <arko> i'll send you one once i have a few built
[20:48] <arko> camera all the things
[20:48] <Babs_> cool. dimensions of the carbon fibre square bit are 100mm x 100mm, just need four holes in the circuit board at the right place on the corners and it will slot right on
[20:48] <mattbrejza> whats going in that frame?
[20:49] <Babs_> anyway, I was thinking
[20:49] <mikestir> eroomde: steve_2e0vet: I think we're looking at something like £50k for hard tooling for the plastics on our current product at work
[20:49] <Babs_> how fast can you capture frames with the camera?
[20:49] <steve_2e0vet> 50k thats alot!! what you ming
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[20:49] <mikestir> handheld device, some internal plastic parts
[20:50] <Babs_> the arduino looks like its processor limits frame capture and write to say 10 frames a second
[20:50] <steve_2e0vet> making even... my keyboard is playing up
[20:50] <mikestir> for prototypes we have been using a polyurethane resin process
[20:50] <Babs_> would it be possible to link up say 5 atmegas, have them all linked to the camera, slightly offset their timing of image capture and get them interpolating to achieve a higher frame rate of 50hz?
[20:51] <steve_2e0vet> im actually after prototypes first
[20:51] <Babs_> mattbrejza - all of the heavy stuff, batteries etc.
[20:51] <Babs_> to give it some mass
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[20:51] <mikestir> steve_2e0vet: what sort of volumes?
[20:51] <mattbrejza> ah right
[20:51] <mattbrejza> is this the eclipse imaging payload?
[20:51] <fsphil> if you're doing video I'd suggest going beyond the atmega
[20:51] <Babs_> the transmitter is an interesting problem.
[20:52] <Babs_> i either locate it in the camera cage at the bottom, which makes the mass that the motors need to move larger and doesnt help the counter rotating issue
[20:53] <Babs_> or I just locate the antenna in the camera cage, and run the connections through the slip ring (which causes potential issues in case that piece fails - ok losing camera control, would be bad to lose communications)
[20:54] <Babs_> or mount the tracker entirely inside the top half, which would be easy but presumably the carbon and aluminium and camera it would have to transmit through may cause issues
[20:54] <Babs_> havent figured it out yet. some tests needed i guess
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[20:55] <mattbrejza> the transmitter could be completey seperate a few meters above the camera payload?
[20:55] <fsphil> would it be heavy enough to matter?
[21:01] <Babs_> fsphil - my primitive tracker construction skills suggest it would
[21:02] <Babs_> i've got the current one running off a car battery
[21:02] <Babs_> *this is a joke
[21:02] <fsphil> amuricapico
[21:02] <fsphil> just run some coax from the tracker out to the antenna?
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[21:04] <Babs_> its the fact that it needs to freely rotate that causes the issue
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[21:05] <Babs_> ultimately i think the solution is just to build sa light tracker
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[21:07] <fsphil> mmm
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[21:09] <Babs_> although if it is located in the camera cage and well balanced, you are right, it shouldn't make much difference
[21:09] <Babs_> plus the electronic motors are rated to shift a 600g camera, whereas the camera i'm going to use is more 400g, so i have some latitude
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[21:12] <Willdude> Right I think it's probably time to get my boards soldered up
[21:12] <Willdude> I've been meaning to do that for about 6 months now
[21:12] <Willdude> So I will make sure I do it tomorrow
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[21:18] <Willdude> The ublox scares me to be honest
[21:18] <ibanezmatt13> I found most 0603 stuff quite okay, the troublesome part was the TPS61201. Gosh that was tricky, I in the end didn't even do it :)
[21:19] <chrisstubbs> Yeah the ublox seems scary until you do it them find smaller things :P
[21:19] <Upu> heh
[21:19] <Upu> it was easy ibanezmatt13 :)
[21:19] <ibanezmatt13> mm, I wasn't convinced :P
[21:20] <Willdude> I just found my arduino code again
[21:20] <Willdude> Now I have a better understanding of C, it makes more sense now
[21:21] <Willdude> http://pastie.org/8746693
[21:21] <fsphil> like the matrix
[21:21] <fsphil> no, that's perl
[21:21] <Willdude> Wait it wasn't that one, that was unfinished.
[21:21] <mattbrejza> anyone know if polystrene is good to 500V? :P
[21:21] <Willdude> I really regret doing the BBB now
[21:21] <eroomde> lol
[21:22] <Willdude> It just scared me to write C code
[21:22] <mfa298> nothing wrong with perl: http://totl.net/PerlContest/
[21:22] <eroomde> almost like all the people giving you that advice knew what they were talking about
[21:22] <mfa298> note my perl code never looks like that.
[21:22] <Willdude> eroomde, you make mistakes, you move on
[21:23] <Willdude> In fact, I'm sorta pleased I did
[21:23] <eroomde> sure
[21:23] <eroomde> that's called random walk
[21:23] <mfa298> I prefer my C code to include: int main(int argc, char** argv){
[21:23] <eroomde> guided search algorithms learn faster
[21:23] <fsphil> char *argv[] forever
[21:24] <Willdude> I'm considering moving back to arduino
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[21:24] <Willdude> It was a less troublesome platform, and I'll probably only need a step-up/down converter to make my board work with it
[21:24] <fsphil> unless you've a pressing need for large memory or processing ability, an atmega is fine
[21:25] <Willdude> In fact, I will I think
[21:26] Action: Willdude needs to check if the ublox takes 5v powetr
[21:26] <Willdude> *power
[21:26] <Willdude> Ah I remember 5v power, 3v3 serial.
[21:26] <Willdude> Why is it it's written 3v3 not 3.3v?
[21:26] <ibanezmatt13> I think it's just a different notation
[21:26] <mattbrejza> saves space
[21:27] <Upu> space Willdude
[21:27] <mfa298> 5v depends on having the right breakout (the chip is only 3v3)
[21:27] <mattbrejza> also if the dp isnt printed well you wont misread
[21:27] <Upu> note all the headers are 3 characters long
[21:27] <Willdude> Ah right
[21:27] <Willdude> Makes sense I suppose
[21:27] <fsphil> just use a 3.3v microcontroller
[21:27] <mattbrejza> (last point mainly applies to resistors, noone would expect 33V out the board)
[21:27] <fsphil> 5v is sooo out of date
[21:28] <Willdude> fsphil, uno is 5v though
[21:28] <Willdude> That's the one I got
[21:28] <Willdude> Or should I get a new arduino?
[21:29] <fsphil> sparkfun make a tiny avr board that runs at 3.3v
[21:29] <mattbrejza> you can make the uno work with a couple resistors though
[21:30] <fsphil> http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/arduino-pro-mini-328-3-3v-8mhz.html
[21:30] <fsphil> true
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> evening Anthony
[21:30] <fsphil> it's only the avr > ublox bit you need to worry about
[21:30] <fsphil> simple voltage divider, job jobbed
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> yeah somehow 3v3 is the future
[21:30] <Lunar_Lander> or 1v8?
[21:30] <fsphil> 1.8v probably
[21:30] <Upu> Willdude beta test the datasheet I just did for it https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/HAB%20Supplies%20Datasheets/HAB-BO-M7Q5P-ASSY.pdf
[21:31] <mattbrejza> tbh 3.3 will probably stay around, youll probably find energy efficient stuff using a 1.8V core with 3.3V logic on the io
[21:32] <eroomde> Upu: might be worth emphasising that rx/tx are relative to gps rather that the host
[21:32] <eroomde> (if that's the case)
[21:32] <Upu> it is thanks noted
[21:33] <eroomde> i've seen breakouts with both which has upset me enough to fedex a jiffy bag of my own shit to the creators who broke the conventions
[21:33] <fsphil> should call it OUT and IN
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[21:35] <Upu> done thx eroomde
[21:35] <eroomde> cool
[21:35] <eroomde> i'll put the jiffy bag back
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[21:35] <DL1SGP1> good evening all :)
[21:35] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[21:35] <Upu> evening
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[21:38] <fsphil> back where?
[21:38] <Willdude> Upu, with pleasure
[21:39] <Upu> you don't have an EN pin
[21:39] <Upu> I think yours is an older board
[21:39] <Willdude> Is the one you gave me 3v3 or 5v?
[21:39] <Willdude> I think I'll probably still use my board
[21:41] <Willdude> Ah that's a point - I was going to get a better soldering iron - not sure if I can afford one atm. I guess this 50w maplin one will do for the moment but when I get on to the ublox maybe not
[21:42] <fsphil> I don't mind my maplin iron
[21:42] <fsphil> don't really have space for anything bigger either
[21:43] <Willdude> Mine's back heavy
[21:43] <mfa298> If it's the blue variable voltage soldering iron I think people have used it to solder boards
[21:43] <mfa298> s/voltage/temperature/
[21:43] <Willdude> It is
[21:44] <mfa298> but it's probably worth practicing with other things first and make sure the tip is clean.
[21:44] <mfa298> getting the temperature right helps a lot (and may be a bit of trial and error at first)
[21:45] <Willdude> Yeah most of my other boards have resistors on them
[21:45] <ibanezmatt13> yes, I found taking apart DVD players and other items in the house helped quite a bit (my mum wasn't impressed). A few components from those boards are on NORB :/
[21:46] <mfa298> even getting a kit using through hole components will give some good practice.
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> has anyone flown 868mhz telemetry?
[21:47] <Willdude> Ah that reminds me I need to think about getting my intermediate kit sorted
[21:48] <mfa298> Laurenceb_: a couple of people have
[21:48] <Upu> yes Laurenceb once or twice
[21:48] <Willdude> I'm hopeful of getting the license, but I shan't be ordering a 50w amp just yet
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> is there more QRM?
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> or whatever you call it - local noise
[21:50] <Willdude> Can anyone suggest any improvements I could make to this before submitting?
[21:50] <mfa298> QRM man made noise, QRN natural noise (from memory) so QRM is probably the closest to local noise
[21:50] <Willdude> http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/18018908/
[21:51] <Willdude> Actually, I think I'll get to work on my nmea parser in C
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> ah
[21:53] <Willdude> I wonder if I'll have a full license by summer, if so I'd love to take my radio to Florida with me
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[21:55] <mfa298> Willdude: couple of issues with your pong game. Up and Down arrows don't work for me.
[21:55] <Willdude> Ah they are left and right
[21:55] <Willdude> Should've changed that
[21:56] <mikestir> Laurenceb_: I did - I seem to recall Upu was receiving it on a scanner on his windowsill
[21:56] <mfa298> also at one point the ball was pretty much going up and down (took several bounces off the top and bottom to get to the bat
[21:56] <Upu> I was mikestir :)
[21:56] <Upu> I have actually made 2 868Mhz HABAmps
[21:57] <Willdude> mfa298, I'll change the range that it can point in
[21:58] <Willdude> mfa298, I've literally got all year to do it
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[22:11] <jededu> Willdude on your pong if the random direction sets to 180 it will just go up and down try 300 to 360
[22:12] <Willdude> Indeed
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[22:30] <LeoBodnar> is FCDP+ good for 868MHz stuff?
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[22:34] <fsphil> I've only done short range tests. worked ok
[22:34] <fsphil> not sure what others used
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> jcoxon flew 868MHz something but i can't remember how it went
[22:37] <fsphil> iirc the last 869mhz flight worked pretty well
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[22:43] <mfa298> LeoBodnar: I tracked mikestir's balloon with an fcd Pro+ and mini TV dipole antenna stuck to a window
[22:44] <mfa298> the one on the left of https://www.dropbox.com/s/6vcsozyx4qzhubk/2013-10-02%2013.43.43.jpg
[22:44] <mfa298> the one on the right was supposed to be a coax sleve dipole made from RG213 but didn't work as well.
[22:45] <mikestir> antenna on the payload for that was just a dipole made of copper tape, stuck on the side of the box
[22:45] <LeoBodnar> hah
[22:45] <LeoBodnar> so how did it compare to 434?
[22:45] <mfa298> I think I got a good signal once the payload had got high enough to clear the edge of the cotswolds (the hill in the back ground)
[22:46] <mikestir> I think it worked at least as well as the 434 one
[22:46] <LeoBodnar> cool
[22:47] <mikestir> it was only 5mW as well to keep it legal for 100% duty
[22:47] <mfa298> I don't think I was setup to do 434 and 869 for that one (I was /A)
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[22:50] <mikestir> the main reason for putting it on there was for DFing it on the ground using an ex-GSM yagi I had got hold of
[22:50] <mikestir> in the end we picked up the 434 one first using my homebrew 7ele
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[23:27] <DL7AD> morning
[23:28] <mfa298> not quite yet in the land of GMT.
[23:28] <DL7AD> ^^
[23:29] <DL7AD> but in germany
[23:30] <WillTablet> mfa298: did you spot anything else about my scratch programming?
[23:30] <WillTablet> *program
[23:32] <mfa298> that's about as far as my testing went. setting up email servers is a much more interesting game.
[23:33] <Lunar_LanderA> hello :)
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[23:34] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_LanderA
[23:35] <DL7AD> mfa298: agree....
[23:35] <Lunar_LanderA> how's life?
[23:36] <DL7AD> Lunar_LanderA: i recently came home.
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[23:37] <DL7AD> from amateur radio club meeting
[23:38] <Lunar_LanderA> cool!
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[23:39] <DL7AD> btw: im going to fly next saturday
[23:39] <Lunar_LanderA> cool!
[23:40] <DL7AD> ill try to get a hab tracker to work
[23:42] <WillTablet> mfa298: :-) the first assignment has to be in scatch
[23:43] <WillTablet> I've literally got all year to do it
[23:44] <mfa298> the setting up email servers game is what I've been trying to do this evening. It's not a game I'd suggest to anyone unless they know a lot about smtp/ greylisting/ open relays etc. first.
[23:45] <WillTablet> Why do you need to?
[23:45] <mfa298> getting an smtp server wrong is *bad*
[23:45] <WillTablet> What's it for?
[23:46] <mfa298> I've already got one but I want to move it - it's currently on a vps with a provider I don't really trust (lots of their customers recently got a phising email sent from their mail server)
[23:48] <WillTablet> Ah
[23:48] <WillTablet> Azure are actually really good providers
[23:48] <WillTablet> They actually phoned me to welcome me
[23:48] <WillTablet> So why did you need a mail server in the first place?
[23:48] <adamgreig> mfa298: who from, if you don't mind sharing?
[23:49] <adamgreig> (and who to? :P)
[23:49] <mfa298> the VPS provider is ThrustVPS (also known as DamnVPS)
[23:50] <WillTablet> DO were really good, but I still feel guilty about that unpaid bill
[23:50] <mfa298> it looks like someone got into their WHMCS control panel and was able to send an email to all their customers
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[23:51] <WillTablet> Why is it that main is an in in C?
[23:52] <mfa298> currently the mail server function is moving onto my home VMware server - If I hear back from Linode it might then move that way.
[23:52] <WillTablet> As in int main
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[23:52] <adamgreig> WillTablet: it _returns_ an int because systems programs return integer status codes on exit
[23:52] <adamgreig> 0 means success, else is an error
[23:52] <adamgreig> mfa298: I recommend no-longer-hosting email :P
[23:52] <WillTablet> Is uno the most popular arduino?
[23:54] <mfa298> adamgreig: most of what's on this mail server is mailing lists and old stuff. But playing with sendmail is always fun.
[23:54] <mfa298> (I've looked at postfix twice, the first time it was too simple for what I wanted, last time I looked the config file looked to be more complex than sendmail)
[23:55] <adamgreig> oh god, sendmail?
[23:55] <adamgreig> hardcore
[23:55] <adamgreig> postfix is _much_ happier
[23:55] <adamgreig> config file (in debian etc) is split into parts which makes it happy too
[23:55] <adamgreig> or exim4
[23:55] <adamgreig> sendmail is like... seriously old
[00:00] --- Wed Feb 19 2014