highaltitude.log.20140214

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[00:24] <Laurenceb_> furtherst north of any B balloon?
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[00:24] <Laurenceb_> erm
[00:24] <Laurenceb_> furthest
[00:25] <Laurenceb_> now 2 grammar
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> farthest
[00:25] <Lunar_Lander> hm good question
[00:28] <Laurenceb_> thankyou for correcting my english :P
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[00:54] <brainles71> morning
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[01:12] <DL7AD> morning brainles71
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[01:13] <brainles71> its so lonely in australia on the internet during the day
[01:13] <brainles71> everyone else is asleep
[01:13] <DL7AD> yep.... i should be too :P
[01:13] <DL7AD> greetings from germany :P
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[01:15] <DL7AD> brainles71: how late is it in OZ?
[01:16] <DL7AD> *what time is it
[01:16] <Darkside> 11:44am here
[01:17] <brainles71> its 12:16 in sydney
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[01:17] <brainles71> hows things mike?
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[01:18] <brainles71> DL7AD: got much snow over there at the moment?
[01:18] <DL7AD> brainles71: rofl.... nothing at all. its too warm for our conditions here
[01:19] <DL7AD> we had snow for 2 weeks this season ^^
[01:19] <brainles71> where abouts in germany are you?
[01:19] <DL7AD> in berlin
[01:19] <brainles71> i haven't been there
[01:20] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[01:20] <DL7AD> i havent been in australia. if i would win the lottery i would fly to australia :D
[01:20] <DL7AD> night Lunar_Lander
[01:20] <brainles71> haha
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[01:22] <DL7AD> the only time i got in touch was one year ago when i got a contact via HF with JT65.
[01:22] <DL7AD> *in contact
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[01:25] <brainles71> do you launch many balloons DL7AD?
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[01:26] <DL7AD> ehm... currently not. but im working on my new tracker. these have been my 2 balloons i launched in germany: dl7ad.de/balloons/D-1/index.php dl7ad.de/balloons/D-2/index.php
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[02:32] <matt1213> what is this?
[02:33] <matt1213> hello
[02:33] <matt1213> any one
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[05:33] <Reb-SM3ULC> morrn!
[05:33] <brainles71> norming
[05:34] <Reb-SM3ULC> We have a winn?
[05:34] <Reb-SM3ULC> er
[05:34] <brainles71> haha
[05:35] <brainles71> Reb-SM3ULC: where are you based?
[05:36] <Reb-SM3ULC> stockholm
[05:37] <brainles71> hows the weather over there?
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[05:38] <Reb-SM3ULC> well, no snow, about 0C
[05:39] <brainles71> if its going to be that cold you may as well have snow
[05:39] <brainles71> its not worth it otherwise
[05:39] <brainles71> do you have any launches going on at the moment?
[05:39] <Reb-SM3ULC> no, have a discussion with authptities
[05:40] <Reb-SM3ULC> cost about 475 euros to launch here... :(
[05:41] <Reb-SM3ULC> Position: 66°37.58' N 24°41.29'
[05:41] <Reb-SM3ULC> >66 33
[05:41] <Reb-SM3ULC> Congrats to Leo then!
[05:43] <Reb-SM3ULC> mm, wait... there were special rules for leo....
[05:44] <brainles71> so thats 475 euros for permission to launch?
[05:44] <Reb-SM3ULC> yepp
[05:44] <Reb-SM3ULC> leo has to do 68.5622 to win
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[05:45] <Reb-SM3ULC> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:arctic_challenge
[05:46] <brainles71> brb
[05:46] <Reb-SM3ULC> 3h with current speed then
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[05:58] <arko> wow LeoBodnar is so close
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[06:00] <arko> oh wow nvm my screen had not updated
[06:00] <arko> 66.79949
[06:00] <arko> dude!
[06:01] <arko> contrats LeoBodnar! B-40 crosses into the arctic circle :)
[06:01] <arko> congrats*
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[06:46] <jcoxon> arctic challenge!
[06:46] <jcoxon> wow
[06:46] <jcoxon> its above the arctic circle
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[06:48] <jcoxon> the competition is still open as i'll activate the LeoBodnar clause
[06:49] <jcoxon> so if he doesn't cross 68.5622 then the prize is still available to others if they cross 66.56.22
[06:49] <jcoxon> 66.5622*
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[06:49] <Reb-SM3ULC> wonder if it's possible to track that far north
[06:49] <jcoxon> well there are some aprs stations ahead of the traj
[06:49] <jcoxon> if its still flying i suspect a few more packets
[06:51] <Upu> however
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[06:51] <x-f> impressive
[06:51] <Upu> the last battery reading was 0.981V
[06:52] <Upu> and the temp -72
[06:52] <Upu> neither of which are good numbers for longevity
[06:52] <jcoxon> no indeed
[06:52] <jcoxon> there will be some sunlight after 8.30
[06:53] <Upu> should be in sun light now
[06:53] <Upu> just
[06:54] <jcoxon> oh well it does mean the competition is sitll open
[06:55] <Upu> unless it wakes up
[06:55] <Upu> :)
[06:55] <Upu> good effort though
[06:57] <jcoxon> yes!
[06:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> seems to be cloudy up there
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[07:13] <Reb-SM3ULC> mm, my company has a little office on the swedish side where b40 should be by now..
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[07:27] <G8APZ> B-40 north of Arctic Circle.
[07:27] <G8APZ> By how much is Leo B handicapped in the Arctic Circle Challenge?
[07:28] <x-f> two degrees
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[07:31] <G8APZ> 68.33 then.. B-40 is 67.62 at the mo!
[07:32] <G8APZ> x-f morally, Leo wins!!
[07:32] <G8APZ> It must be damn cold up there!!
[07:33] <x-f> 08:51:54 <Upu> the last battery reading was 0.981V
[07:33] <x-f> 08:52:00 <Upu> and the temp -72
[07:33] <x-f> Arctic :)
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[07:34] <G8APZ> the question is... are there APRS stations further north and will less than 1v hold up on the TX!
[07:35] <G8APZ> voltage adjuster must take a hammering!
[07:36] <G8KNN> B-40 temp is now -32.9C and volts at 1.34V
[07:36] <G8KNN> warming up in the sun
[07:37] <G8APZ> G8KNN Sun in the Arctic!!
[07:37] <G8APZ> G8KNN sunrise must be later than this!
[07:37] <G8KNN> It seems so :-)
[07:38] <G8KNN> the mobile tracker shows it to be in daylight
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[07:43] <LeoBodnar> mornig
[07:44] <arko> morning mr arctic circle
[07:44] <arko> 67.747 and going...
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> heh it's back from the dead
[07:45] <LeoBodnar> the Sun showed up its face just in time
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[07:48] <G8APZ> back in... inet dropped me out
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[07:54] <G8APZ> 67.83 target is 68.56
[07:54] <G8APZ> almost there!
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[07:55] <sa6bss> seems to be quite warm and cosy upp north :) Vbatt: 1.352 V, Vsolar: 0 V, Temp: -28.900 C
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[07:55] <G8APZ> sa6bss -29 is warm? :-)
[07:56] <sa6bss> compared to -72 it is :)
[07:56] <G8APZ> yes!
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[07:56] <G8APZ> +3 here seems COLD!
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[07:57] <G8APZ> sa6bss did B-40 fly over you last evening?
[07:59] <LeoBodnar> yes G8APZ it was
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[07:59] <LeoBodnar> *it did I meant
[07:59] <LeoBodnar> [20:34] <sa6bss> hey!! Talk about B-40 comming over my house, it did, spot on, the small dot is my 2m/70cm ant https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26543754/B40-qth.jpg
[07:59] <G8APZ> no APRS update for last 8 minutes... has it run out of APRS stations?
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[08:00] <OH7HJ-1> Congrats for B-40 Northen Exposure! I put an APRS screenshot to http://www.oh7ab.fi/foorumi/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=239&p=1239#p1239
[08:01] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar incredible overflying a spotter !
[08:02] <OH7HJ-1> May I volunteer as the next one to overfly..? ;)
[08:02] <fsphil> that's good aim
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[08:03] <G8APZ> Last update 07:51 must have run out of APRS range
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[08:05] <G8APZ> Anyway... B-40 has passed north of Arctic Circle
[08:05] <G8APZ> and 2 degree handicap unfair!
[08:06] <DL7AD> yep. thats right.... good morning and congrats to LeoBodnar
[08:06] <DL7AD> he deserved it :) for launching that many balloons
[08:07] <G8APZ> DL7AD I agree
[08:09] <G8APZ> This Arctic challenge needs some APRS and trackers in Northern Norway!!
[08:09] <G8APZ> or Northern Finland
[08:10] <G8APZ> 68.00 reached!!
[08:10] <G8APZ> just 0.33 to go!
[08:11] <G8APZ> Needs to reach 68.5622 to be precise
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[08:13] <OH7HJ-1> Any means of increasing range is essential in the North. After the shore of Norwegian and Barents Sea, there are no receivers. Any chance getting the balloon float still higher..?
[08:17] <G8APZ> OH7HJ-1 LeoBodnar pico balloons usually float at 8km... seems a good level. The problem with tracking remains though. Perhaps ISS can help!
[08:17] <DL7AD> G8APZ: no the iss cant, because its inclination is limited!
[08:18] <fsphil> yea the ISS is never overhead here
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[08:18] <fsphil> it still has a huge footprint though, it might extend far enough north?
[08:19] <DL7AD> fsphil: yes that should be the case
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[08:20] <DL7AD> the iss can be received up to 2200km~
[08:20] <G8APZ> fsphil in summer when I was in SW France, ISS came very close... saw it visually and it was so damn fast that when I called my XYL it was almost gone!!
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[08:20] <DL7AD> G8APZ: rofl...
[08:21] <oh10ta> just joined to the fun, how does the aprs packages work on these floatters? is there another tx for 144800 or is the modul itself txing on 2m and 70cm?
[08:21] <DL1SGP2> morning folks, time for breakfast
[08:21] <DL7AD> DL1SGP2: agree
[08:21] <OH7HJ-1> Yes, ISS is afraid of the Arctic colds and keeps near ecuator. I wonder if it were a major violation of unwritten rules to switch from foil balloon to larger PE bag..?
[08:22] <G8APZ> DL7AD It helped to be in a dark rural area... you can see everything in the sky. Aircraft do not move that fast!
[08:22] <fsphil> oh10ta: this particular payload can transmit on both 2m and 70cm
[08:22] <oh10ta> thanks.
[08:22] <DL7AD> G8APZ: yes. i believed you. i did it before myself ;)
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[08:25] <DL7AD> btw: i tried to find out how to make spacenear faster in firefox. its faster but not enough so far. http://dl7ad.de/hab_contacts/balloon.php
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[08:26] <OH7HJ-1> I can barely hear ISS traffic when it is at its highest northen point of orbit, yet I am far south of Arctic Circle. Although it might be for a brief moment be above common horizon with balloon, the sheer distance might require Tx ERP of 10 W or more...
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[08:27] <OH7HJ-1> However, I again volunteer to join ISS crew for trials..! ;)
[08:29] <OH7HJ-1> And even take my own yagis along up to the orbit... :)
[08:29] <DL7AD> OH7HJ-1: thomas KT5TK is trying to use 100mW. but thats much too less.....
[08:30] <OH7HJ-1> Wow, that is a real QRO if get the balloon high..!
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[08:33] <G8APZ> 10mW into a GP does well... amazing on a single 1.5v battery!
[08:33] <OH7HJ-1> For Rx's on the ground, the Tx pwr of the balloon seems less important, than the altitude. As long as the balloon is a few degrees above horizon, mW's of pwr work fine.
[08:34] <G8APZ> DL7AD have you tried this one? >>> habmap.philcrump.co.uk
[08:34] <OH7HJ-1> When the balloon is near horizon, the ground starts to absorb the signal, and its S level drops dramatically.
[08:35] <G8APZ> OH7HJ-1 I find that the signal range is just past the outer ring on spacenear perhaps just 10km... then zilch
[08:36] <DL7AD> G8APZ: pretty fast but im still missing all the features spacenear offeres :P but its pretty fast
[08:36] <OH7HJ-1> So either increasing power by factor of about 100 x, or raising altitude by about 50 %, might improve range about as much.
[08:37] <OH7HJ-1> I guess that concerning battery life, the altitude increase migh be easier than Tx power increase..?
[08:38] <G8APZ> oh7hj-1 with a pico party balloon, I expect altitude is hard to achieve after 8km due to inflexible foil
[08:39] <OH7HJ-1> Yes, that is why I wonder if the small party balloon could be replaced with a large PE bag. Would increase cost of helium of course.
[08:40] <OH7HJ-1> (But not affect us hydrogen users ;)
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[08:42] <OH7HJ-1> I am willing to sponsor a 100+ liter PE waste bag for payload builder willing to experiment... ;)
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[08:44] <G8APZ> OH7HJ-1 I have not seen many floaters with latex balloons - most seem to go for altitude up to 40km!
[08:44] <DL7AD> OH7HJ-1: i already launched a trash bag
[08:44] <LeoBodnar> OH7HJ-1: people are flying bin bags from time to time for fun. But they are very difficult to keep from rupturing. So they are usually up-down flights for a few hours.
[08:44] <DL7AD> http://kt5tk.wordpress.com/2013/07/30/launching-trash-bags-at-late-night/
[08:45] <LeoBodnar> The problem is overpressure (superpressure) during the daytime caused by solar heating
[08:45] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: mine didnt rupture. it was leaking at an undefined point
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[08:46] <OH7HJ-1> Yes, they need be vented, if overfilled for start. A rubber band on stick to the lowest corner of PE bag is one means of making the bleed valve.
[08:46] <LeoBodnar> well not rupturing catastrophically like foil balloons but developing a leak
[08:47] <DL7AD> even at night
[08:47] <LeoBodnar> Then you are talking about zero-pressure balloons. They need ballast control to stay afloat for more after the first day
[08:47] <OH7HJ-1> Night time gas volume shrink is compensated by sheer oversize of the balloon.
[08:48] <DL7AD> thomas and i had a larger trash bag from a park and when i wanted to fix the transmitter in the balloon and scorpion looked at me ^^
[08:48] <OH7HJ-1> A balloonaut?
[08:49] <G8APZ> Oooh update!! 68.35!!
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[08:50] <Darkside> what does it have to get to?
[08:50] <OH7HJ-1> Yes, zero-pressure is the word. It will stay afloat overnight if it is oversize.
[08:50] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: B-40 deserved a website :P
[08:50] <G8APZ> 68.5622 darkside!
[08:50] <DL7AD> im off for 20 mins
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[08:51] <OH7HJ-1> Meaning that the sheer volume of the balloon provides ample more lift than needed for payload.
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[08:55] <DL1SGP2> Goooooooooooooooooo B-40 Gooooooooooo! :P
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[08:56] <OH7HJ-1> If manage to hit a jet stream high, the balloon will progress far in a couple days...
[08:56] <G8APZ> 68.41 almost there!!
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[08:57] <G8APZ> 68.44
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[08:59] <arko> i was about to go to sleep but there is only like 0.22 left to go
[08:59] <G8APZ> arko even if it bursts it should make it!!
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[09:00] <arko> is the battery warmed up?
[09:00] <DL1SGP2> parameters look OK, battery seems fine, altitude is stable, speed is nice too
[09:00] <G8APZ> DL1SGP2 what is the speed?
[09:00] <DL1SGP2> 34kn
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[09:01] <G8APZ> OK thanks
[09:01] <arko> is the comment the two's compliment of the temperature?
[09:01] <arko> 10111011 is -69
[09:01] <arko> i assume thats temp
[09:02] <DL1SGP2> it reached norway
[09:02] <DL1SGP2> maybe hmm
[09:02] <DL1SGP2> nah not yet :P
[09:02] <G8APZ> 68.48 almost there!
[09:02] <arko> man, that'd be so cool if it was recovered
[09:03] Action: DL1SGP2 needs more coffee
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[09:03] <DL1SGP2> arko, aprs telemetry says Temp -22 C, Vbatt: 1.366 V
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[09:04] <arko> oh, i should check aprs
[09:04] <DL1SGP2> speed still 33 kn
[09:04] <DL1SGP2> it's M0XER-10
[09:04] <LeoBodnar> The APRS "comment" is result of some corrupted on air packet that aprs.fi decoded and assumed to have a comment in it
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[09:04] <LeoBodnar> and the comment is "sticky" so unless there is a new one this one will carry on
[09:05] <LeoBodnar> It's garbage basically
[09:05] Action: DL1SGP2 slaps APRS around bit with a large He inflated garbage bag
[09:05] <oh10ta> LeoBodnar this one surely deserves a site :)
[09:05] <LeoBodnar> heh it will have one
[09:05] <arko> haha
[09:05] <DL1SGP2> morning LeoBodnar got the champaign ready?
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[09:06] <LeoBodnar> Just checked http://www.isleoflying.com/ and it works as designed - thanks arko ! :D
[09:06] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar your updates cesed at B33 I think!
[09:06] <LeoBodnar> yeah i need to catch up G8APZ
[09:06] <arko> LeoBodnar: :) awesome
[09:06] <arko> holy cow, 0.04 to go
[09:07] <arko> next packet is probably it
[09:07] <LeoBodnar> you can just drop in tomorrow and check :D
[09:07] <arko> no!
[09:07] <arko> i must stay awake
[09:07] <LeoBodnar> we humans are illogical
[09:07] <arko> its not long
[09:07] <G8APZ> 66.5622 target!!
[09:07] <arko> work tomorrow can wait
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[09:08] <Darkside> arko: i read that as "isle of lying"
[09:08] <arko> haha
[09:08] <arko> we all do
[09:08] <LeoBodnar> we are lucky as LD9AF has a valley towards current B-40 position
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[09:08] <G8APZ> 68.5622 I meant!
[09:08] <cm13g09> where was LeoBodnar truying to go....
[09:08] <DL1SGP2> imagine a power outage now struck northern finland and the aprs digis went off :D
[09:09] <G8APZ> 2 degrees north of Arctic Circle which is defined as 66.5622
[09:09] <cm13g09> ah right!
[09:09] <DL1SGP2> congrats LeoBodnar
[09:09] <G8APZ> 68.54 now!
[09:09] <LeoBodnar> there is a telemetry bit that should flip when crossing the handicap line
[09:09] Action: DL1SGP2 wanted to ne forst
[09:10] <DL1SGP2> *first
[09:10] <LeoBodnar> "Arctic" has already gone high
[09:10] <DL1SGP2> did I mention that I need more coffee?
[09:10] <oh10ta> Fantastic!!!!
[09:11] <LeoBodnar> I put them in just in case it went north and back without live coverage on the way
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[09:11] <LeoBodnar> however it would not have won the challenge
[09:11] <arko> oh
[09:11] <arko> YOU GOT IT!
[09:12] <arko> oh man
[09:12] <arko> 68.5617
[09:12] <LeoBodnar> I think the rules are that you have to broadcast live
[09:12] <arko> crap
[09:12] <LeoBodnar> haha arko calm down!
[09:12] <arko> 0.0005 to go
[09:12] <LeoBodnar> :D
[09:12] <arko> hahaha
[09:12] <arko> thats gps error
[09:12] <arko> damn it
[09:12] <arko> sorry
[09:12] <arko> its 1am and im loopy
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[09:12] <arko> been up for 20 hours now
[09:12] <DL1SGP2> arko I would share coffee with you if you were not so damn far away :)
[09:12] <arko> srsly right
[09:13] <arko> there you go!
[09:13] <x-f> woo
[09:13] <cm13g09> congrats LeoBodnar
[09:13] <arko> 68.57985
[09:14] <arko> congrats LeoBodnar
[09:14] <eroomde> morning
[09:14] <G8APZ> and the Winter Olympic HAB gold medal goes to LeoBodnar!
[09:14] <arko> :)
[09:14] <x-f> challenge completed
[09:14] <LeoBodnar> yay! thanks to all watching live :D
[09:14] <arko> LeoBodnar: http://isleoflying.com/
[09:14] <G8APZ> Well done Leo Bodnar!!!
[09:14] <arko> i've updated
[09:14] <LeoBodnar> and tracking B-*
[09:14] <eroomde> have you crossed the arctic circle?
[09:14] <arko> morning eroomde
[09:14] <eroomde> nice
[09:14] <DL1SGP2> *\0/* *\0/* *\0/* CONGRATS LeoBodnar *\0/* *\0/* *\0/*
[09:14] <arko> he did not only that but went past it
[09:14] <arko> to his challange
[09:14] <eroomde> but also a testament to just how f*'d up thing weather is
[09:14] <arko> challenge
[09:14] <G8APZ> eroomde yes plus 2 degrees
[09:14] <eroomde> the jet stream shouldn't let you do that
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[09:15] <LeoBodnar> I've been waiting patiently for nature to screw up
[09:15] <cm13g09> hehehe
[09:15] <cm13g09> anyway
[09:15] <eroomde> still, if it now gets sucked into a polar vortex you might get the first circumnavigation
[09:15] <arko> i was half expecting gif balloons to rain down
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[09:15] <cm13g09> I should go back to work....
[09:15] <arko> on spacenear
[09:15] Action: DL1SGP2 still thinks that Leo manipulated the weather by an army of ninja-goats
[09:15] <LeoBodnar> it will die with the sunset - it's single AAA powered
[09:16] <LeoBodnar> and it's already been down to 0.9v last night
[09:16] <arko> from uk to the arctic circle on a AAA... wow
[09:16] <arko> well with http://isleoflying.com/ updated, im out for the night
[09:16] <G8APZ> 68.60 is certainly past 68.5622 so no arguments at all ... the challenge has been met!!
[09:17] <arko> nice work Leo, time to drink champage in the morning
[09:17] <Maxell> \o/
[09:17] <LeoBodnar> off to work, see you later chaps!
[09:18] <Maxell> However, solar cell 0 volt... Or is it still dark there? :)
[09:18] <G8APZ> Next stop North Pole!!
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[09:18] <oh10ta> not dark but... still low with the sunshine :) http://dx.qsl.net/propagation/greyline.html
[09:18] <LeoBodnar> it's been left out. telemetry is standardised between Bs
[09:19] <LeoBodnar> solar panel would have been utterly useless there
[09:19] <LeoBodnar> really off now
[09:21] <Maxell> hehe
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[09:21] <DL7AD> is it reasonable to use a lineartransponder satellite to transmit the position?
[09:22] <G8APZ> DL7AD why not!
[09:22] <G8APZ> DL7AD any means to achieve tracking should be OK!
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[09:31] <Maxell> DL7AD: that would increase tracking range for sure.
[09:31] <Maxell> How about funcubes transponder? :)
[09:31] <Darkside> hahahahahha
[09:31] <Darkside> actually
[09:31] <Darkside> hrm
[09:31] <Darkside> >_>
[09:31] <Darkside> you know, that might actually work
[09:32] <Darkside> but you'd need a bit of gain pointing up
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[09:33] <Maxell> half dipole for 2 mtrs would be doable
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[09:34] <Maxell> Hot sure if the transponders like rtty tough, might need to get into domex
[09:34] <Maxell> but doppler drifting makes that harder to decode
[09:34] <Darkside> i thought the uplink was 70cm
[09:34] <Maxell> ah yes - even better
[09:34] <Darkside> doppler can be corrected for in software
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[09:34] <Darkside> well, on the ground i mean
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[09:35] <Maxell> hmm, even for SDR receivers?
[09:36] <Maxell> I know about orbitron telling hardware radios to compensate...
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[09:36] <G8APZ> 70cm uplink needs amateur licence and aeronautical not allowed for UK licenses
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[09:36] <Darkside> G8APZ: doesnt stop me doing it
[09:36] <DL1SGP2> Maxell: if you use HDSDR you can compensate with Orbitron
[09:36] <Darkside> i'm in australia lol
[09:36] <G8APZ> Darkside yes of course!!
[09:37] <DL1SGP2> there are plugins for SDR# as well but for FCD I would use HDSDR, it is closer to Winrad
[09:37] <G8APZ> VK - the North Pole!
[09:37] <Darkside> wat
[09:38] <Maxell> In .nl you would have to do an "standalone/remote station" request and costs at least ¬150,-
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[09:38] <Maxell> DL1SGP2: ah, yeah for SDR i use SDR#, orbitron and the funcube telemetry tracker.
[09:38] <fsphil> antarctic challange
[09:38] <Maxell> if they even allow it/
[09:38] <fsphil> good luck finding receiver stations
[09:39] <DL1SGP2> Basically Orbitron can interface with HDSDR through the MyDDE interface, guess what, via MyDDE. If you rather prefer to use CAT Commands, that works as well, I have a pair of virtually linked COM ports, software for tracking WX Sats talks to Port A and HDSDR receives CAT commands on Port B, then you want to choose "Kenwood Protocol" on the Tracking Software
[09:39] <Darkside> fsphil: HF
[09:39] <Darkside> and transponder sat :P
[09:39] <OH7HJ-1> Any need for remote control of balloon? :) APRS network is built to forward text messages and commands thru internet. If have a two-way radio connection to nearest igate and aprs digis, it would be possible to send 'hello' up to the balloon..!
[09:39] <fsphil> bah, you and your reasonable amateur radio rules
[09:39] <Darkside> OH7HJ-1: its surprisingly hard to make an igate output arbitrary messages
[09:39] <Maxell> OH7HJ-1: I think LeoBodnar already did some testing with that
[09:40] <OH7HJ-1> At least my two-way home UIVIEW hadles messages to both directions.
[09:40] <Maxell> OH7HJ-1: how much abuse do you see?
[09:41] <OH7HJ-1> Most igates are set to listen only, however. :(
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[09:41] <OH7HJ-1> What abuse? :0
[09:42] <G8APZ> B-40 just crossed into Norway!
[09:42] <OH7HJ-1> Maxell, do you mean there might be hackers and crackers in the aprs network..?
[09:44] <G8APZ> B-40 on its way to Svalbard!
[09:44] <OH7HJ-1> This far have seen none in aprs of packet network. That is primarily because one needs to have a ham call to access them. People know each other, so pirates are spotted quick.
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[09:47] <Maxell> OH7HJ-1: yeah, like abuse from non amateurs
[09:48] <Maxell> Here in .nl you can only leave on TX if you are near enough to shut it down if it starts doing crazy stuff
[09:48] <Maxell> but also abuse trough one of your digipeaters (or TXing igates) could be blamed on the operator
[09:49] <Maxell> I could not watch an digipeater 24/7 so that would not be an option.
[09:49] <Maxell> Same for TXing igate
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[09:49] <OH7HJ-1> Another simple thing keeping pirates away from packet network is its simplicity. "It is so retarded 1990's", said one of my friends... :)
[09:49] <Maxell> yeah, true
[09:50] <Maxell> Also one of it's beaties
[09:50] <Maxell> *beauties
[09:51] <OH7HJ-1> Like jumping back to DOS or early linux. Not interesting for hackers. But it works reliably...
[09:51] <fsphil> DOS was mostly reliable because it didn't do anything
[09:52] <Maxell> I'm about to setup 27 mhz BBS/beacon/packets since we can leave it running 24/7 and it's nice propagations
[09:52] <Maxell> We've seen packets from finland here!
[09:52] <Maxell> So why not setup more packet network :D
[09:52] <Maxell> ok, bbl
[09:53] <G8APZ> fsphil DOS primitives are probably packaged in a Windows wrapper!!
[09:53] <OH7HJ-1> Yes, the British Grand Ham G8BPQ is continuously developing packet gateways.
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[09:53] <gonzo__> horses for courses, a lot of systems don't need to do mkuch, but get dragged down by running on bloaty unstable OS
[09:54] <G8APZ> gonzo__ bloaty unstable OS = Windows!
[09:54] <gonzo__> a 27meg packet net would be fun, for nostalgia at least
[09:54] <G8APZ> I'm sticking with XP... the best of a bad bunch!
[09:54] <OH7HJ-1> The packet network has grown worldwide. Part by internet, part in the air. John's gateways combine APRS, AX25, winmor etc.
[09:54] <gonzo__> G8APZ, did I actually say that?
[09:57] <gonzo__> Maxell, what freq does the 27meg packet net work on? I'll have a listen
[09:57] <G8APZ> gonzo you only mentioned bloaty unstable OS and I said Windows... when I first started programming mainframes in the 60s the CPU was 16k and only 4k was used by the operating system!
[09:57] <fsphil> windows does quite a bit these days
[09:57] <G8APZ> 4k "words" 4 bytes to a word
[09:57] <gonzo__> (I did mean windlws, just a touch of sarcasm!)
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[09:57] <fsphil> by those standards even linux is bloaty :)
[09:57] <fsphil> and it probably is
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[09:58] <G8APZ> fsphil the early mainframes used overlays to bring in bits as required... Windows loads the whole bloody collection of everything ever written!
[09:58] <gonzo__> I'm an embedde programmer by day, but they are moving me onto PCF based projects. The transition is painful
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> G8APZ: I had my first real taste of assembler on IBM370 clone mainframe
[09:59] <oh10ta> OH7HJ-1: I have actually seen one pirate in Turku on APRS map, but txed position with mobilephone and some software... if I remember the "callsign" correct it was LAZI-9 :)
[09:59] <gonzo__> painful for me and anyone who has to work with me
[09:59] <gonzo__> PCF = PC
[09:59] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar Mine was PLAN assembler on an ICL 1900
[10:00] <fsphil> I enjoy writing stuff for the AVR
[10:00] <fsphil> things get a bit trickier moving up to arm processors
[10:03] <LeoBodnar> I still use NC5.0 to navigate folders
[10:03] <LeoBodnar> *quickly
[10:03] <OH7HJ-1> Ha, tnx info oh10ta! I guess not a harmless pirate anyway. There are also other objects gates to APRS maps, like ships and boats thru AIS igates, so not all objects there have ham calls.
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[10:05] <G8APZ> B-40 crosses 69 N
[10:06] Nick change: G8APZ -> G8APZ-away
[10:08] <OH7HJ-1> There may be rigid ice on the Barents Sea. Should we go rescue the B40..? ;)
[10:12] <Laurenceb_> http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/testimage.2.sh?first=19930201.png&second=20140210.jpg
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[10:13] <Laurenceb_> needs to get to Svalbard
[10:16] <OH7HJ-1> A historical nyance: B-40 might still be flying in Finnis side of border, if there had not been Norwegian aquavit.
[10:18] <OH7HJ-1> Story tells, that when the border was drawn between Norway and Finland, the Norwegian officers entertained Finnish border officers open-handed with aquavit.
[10:19] <OH7HJ-1> That is explained as the reason why the border curved so deep south between the 'hand' and 'head' of Finland... :)
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[10:21] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[10:22] chris_99 (~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929) joined #highaltitude.
[10:25] <OH7HJ-1> The sudden northwards border turn, making the 'shoulder' of Finland, is said to have born because Norwegians ran out of aquavit for a while, and Finnish officer got Karhu-spirits to entertain them with... :)
[10:25] <Maxell> gonzo__: Channel 24 iirc, 27,235 mhz?
[10:25] <Maxell> yep, 27.235 MHz.
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> haha
[10:27] <OH7HJ-1> That is also a descrition how to take care of good relations in the North..! ;)
[10:28] <gonzo__> a bit of drunken bartering, or just an unsteady hand drawing the line??
[10:28] <gonzo__> rr Maxell I'll have a listen
[10:28] <OH7HJ-1> The one with more spirits rules drawing lines. :)
[10:29] <Maxell> gonzo__: not much luck here, on non condition-days zero packets :)
[10:30] <Maxell> 1200 AFSK packet on 27 mhz is rather quiet :P
[10:30] <Maxell> heck, even a complete week went by without decodes
[10:30] <Maxell> Well, we had one saterday in wich we decoded 5 identical packets in half an hour
[10:30] <gonzo__> what's the traffic? APRS style or nodes and digi's?
[10:31] <Maxell> mostly single point and not inter-connected
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[10:31] <Maxell> Any AX.25 decoder should work, APRS decoders not (they check for APRS checksums etc)
[10:32] <LeoBodnar> there is similar story about some railway line. It's perfectly straight apart from an unexplained bump to one side in one place.
[10:32] <LeoBodnar> The story goes that the draftsman had his finger caught with an ink pen when making the final drawing.
[10:33] <eroomde> 2 things
[10:34] <eroomde> my colleague was on the phone and they recommended he called a guy named Joseph Gibbles to help us sort something
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[10:34] <eroomde> i said 'don't accidently called him Joseph Goebels'
[10:34] <OH7HJ-1> Ha! Similar bumps are on some otherways straight African borders, quicky drawn... :)
[10:34] <eroomde> which is exactly what he then did
[10:34] <eroomde> and also 2ndly, this chap is getting bolder and bolder
[10:34] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/Gd9s2jN.jpg
[10:35] <LeoBodnar> Haha "Jeremy Hunt, the culture secretary" debacle
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[10:35] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> Congrats LeoBodnar!
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[10:38] <Laurenceb_> have we ever seen APRS relayed via ships?
[10:38] <LeoBodnar> cheers Geoff-G8DHE-M \ø/
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> I think AIS is just imported to aprs.fi
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> Or do you mean ham igates on ships?
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> yes
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> is this even legal?
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> i dunno
[10:39] <Laurenceb_> lol
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> because it is both /MM and repeater
[10:40] <Laurenceb_> why would it not be
[10:40] <Laurenceb_> it already does Tx
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> i was just wondering if there was any possibility of us getting packets through from further offshore
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> So is it legal for UK licence to operate a repeater in international waters?
[10:41] <Laurenceb_> i dunno but i cant see why not
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> I though repeater needs special approval / nov
[10:42] <Laurenceb_> oh
[10:42] <OH7HJ-1> Laurenceb_ Yes, Damir usually visits packet network chat from his ship. I do not know what kind connection he uses, but he has been online from all oceans.
[10:43] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[10:43] <oh10ta> OH7HJ-1: yes not all have hamcalls but this was made as a mobile/car and went true the city on the roads and only for one or two days then stopped.
[10:43] <OH7HJ-1> I do not recall his call at the moment, but he is a Croatian sailor, I guess.
[10:44] <OH7HJ-1> oh10ta, then there possibly was a will-be ham along in the car..? :)
[10:45] <oh10ta> OH7HJ-1: sure or maybe just someone testing a new software for fun... :)
[10:46] <LeoBodnar> sorry gov, dummy load I bought from eBay seems leaky
[10:46] <OH7HJ-1> Once Damir explained near East Africa how they practised shooting in abarrel dropped to sea, to get prepared for pirates...
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[10:47] <Laurenceb_> what is ais?
[10:47] <OH7HJ-1> AIS is the ofiicial ship and boat APRS.
[10:48] <OH7HJ-1> It works on the 150 MHz ship band.
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[10:48] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[10:48] <Laurenceb_> right
[10:48] <Laurenceb_> ah
[10:48] <Laurenceb_> so B-40 cant talk to it?
[10:48] <Laurenceb_> i see some ais near svalbard, but no regular APRS
[10:48] <OH7HJ-1> Rather easy to decode with sound card and gate to APRS pages.
[10:48] <gonzo__> I don't think AIS has any digi/node functionality
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> ah
[10:49] <OH7HJ-1> Yes, I guess AIS has only igates.
[10:49] <Maxell> AIS is not open to the public/ham radio
[10:49] <gonzo__> not open to TX to, but there are people decioding and feeding the net. Like ADS-B
[10:50] <OH7HJ-1> However, the long distance aircraft HFDL packets on HF appear to be digipeated by ground stations.
[10:51] <OH7HJ-1> Aircrafts have also a packet radio with ground data links connected online. It works on the 130 MHz band AM 2400 b, and it is easy to copy with sound card software.
[10:52] <LeoBodnar> you also need licence for using ship radios
[10:53] <oh10ta> I hope next after B-40 goes qrt, we will see it popping up in Alaska/Canada if nothing heard in Greenland :)
[10:53] <OH7HJ-1> The aircraft VHF packet is called ACARS. There are freqs reserved for it and different on each continent or area.
[10:54] <Maxell> Any Norwegian hams willing to go follow B-24/M0XER-10 per boat? :)
[10:55] <OH7HJ-1> By snowmobile, this time year
[10:55] <oh10ta> B-24? ======> B-40.
[10:56] <Maxell> s/24/40/ :P
[10:56] <Maxell> oh10ta: really?
[10:57] <Maxell> Seas do not freeze here. I think yours is broken... Have you tried turning it off and on again?
[10:58] <x-f> it is off, hence the ice
[10:58] <DL1SGP2> it would be a cold-boot
[10:58] <LeoBodnar> so B-40 went over Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Norway. All Scandinavia covered.
[10:59] <Maxell> Last hour of M0XER-10 telemetry: http://aprs.fi/telemetry/?call=M0XER-10&date_start=2014-02-14+09%3A58%3A29&date_end=2014-02-14+10%3A58%3A29
[10:59] <x-f> LeoBodnar, what are you going to do for the rest of the year now?
[10:59] <LeoBodnar> I need ICE for debugging Bs
[10:59] <Maxell> LeoBodnar: "Acc" is accuracy?
[10:59] <LeoBodnar> fly some more
[11:00] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[11:00] <fsphil> there is still the fsphil challange
[11:00] <oh10ta> Maxell: yes, M0XER-10 is B-40 as I see it :)
[11:00] <x-f> fly west, that's a tough one :)
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[11:02] <Maxell> oh10ta: yes it is :)
[11:03] <eroomde> circumnavigation!
[11:03] <eroomde> gotta be the Great Challenge
[11:03] <gonzo__> sounds painful
[11:03] <adamgreig> did an amazing job of going directly over the very sparse tracking stations LeoBodnar
[11:04] <adamgreig> passed right overhead four of them, the only such in hundreds of miles :P
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[11:04] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[11:05] <DL7AD> good afternoon Lunar_LanderU
[11:06] <DL1SGP2> hello Kevin
[11:06] Nick change: DL1SGP2 -> DL1SGP
[11:06] <Lunar_LanderU> hi
[11:13] <LeoBodnar> hi Lunar_LanderU
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[11:14] <LeoBodnar> Is Denmark considered to be part of Scandinavia?
[11:14] <daveake> yes
[11:17] <OH7HJ-1> Yes, by culture. If being scrupulous, geographically no.
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[11:17] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[11:17] <eroomde> They danes would hate to see them leave
[11:18] <daveake> You're 'avin a giraffe
[11:19] <UpuWork> Woah B-40
[11:19] <UpuWork> woah eroomde back
[11:19] <daveake> wb UpuWork XD
[11:19] <DL1SGP> Hi UpuWork :)
[11:19] <eroomde> yes
[11:19] <eroomde> i am back
[11:19] <eroomde> my two weeks of going into the woods to nerd are over
[11:22] <OH7HJ-1> LA5A igating B40 too. Fine, that will extend reception range beyond Hammerfest! 2 m rules in the Arctic...
[11:23] <eroomde> i nearly went to hammerfest once
[11:23] <eroomde> got half way had to turn around
[11:23] <eroomde> sad times
[11:23] <eroomde> was in tromso though, that was pretty spectacular
[11:24] <OH7HJ-1> I guess you could not have gone in the woods in Hammerfest anyway... ;)
[11:24] <gonzo__> dave, wind your neck in!
[11:26] <daveake> holy delayed retort gonzo__ :)
[11:26] <gonzo__> bloody work got in the way
[11:26] <OH7HJ-1> Only dwarf birches and lichen and wand up there
[11:36] <UpuWork> Congrats LeoBodnar
[11:36] <UpuWork> are you paying yourself ?
[11:36] <Darkside> OH7HJ-1: i read 'birches' differently
[11:36] <Darkside> sorry
[11:36] <Darkside> took me a few reads to understand. i should probably go to bed
[11:37] <DL1SGP> hehe
[11:42] <OH7HJ-1> :))
[11:50] <Lunar_LanderU> hi LeoBodnar
[11:51] <Lunar_LanderU> ah wait
[11:51] <Lunar_LanderU> LeoBodnar CONGRATS!
[11:51] <Lunar_LanderU> all the way to the North Pole now
[11:51] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> heh thanks Lunar
[11:52] <fsphil> taking a shortcut to north america
[11:53] <craag> There's an igate at the north pole right?
[11:53] <craag> :P
[11:53] <cm13g09> morning craag
[11:54] <mattbrejza> will it switch aprs freq if it gets to the US?
[11:54] <craag> morning cm13g09
[11:54] <cm13g09> craag: did you speak to H last night?
[11:55] <LeoBodnar> it would but the battery will die finally when sun sets
[11:55] <craag> cm13g09: Ah, I assumed you'd caught him on irc
[11:55] <craag> will go and ask now
[11:55] <cm13g09> no....
[11:55] <cm13g09> cheers
[11:55] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: the battery freezed already last night when temperature has been -70C
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[11:56] <craag> cm13g09: You have the approval
[11:56] <LeoBodnar> it won't work past sunset
[11:56] <craag> -70 dang that's could
[11:56] <craag> *cold
[11:57] <www-sm3ulc> LeoBodnar: dropping on off here.. nice work!
[11:57] <cm13g09> craag: ta :)
[11:58] <cm13g09> Like I say this should all stop fairly shortly.....
[11:59] <LeoBodnar> cheers www-sm3ulc
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[12:30] <LeoBodnar> aprs.fi helpful advice for balloon going over Arctic: "Last path: ..WIDE2-1.. Seriously bad path! This station appears to be flying at high altitude and using digipeaters, which causes serious congestion in the APRS network. The tracker should be configured to only use digipeaters when at low altitude."
[12:31] <Darkside> hahahaha
[12:31] <mattbrejza> oh noes, wouldnt want to annoy the aprs police now...
[12:31] <daveake> That response is more predictable than the flight path was
[12:32] <LeoBodnar> the whole 500km radius area has a single digipeater
[12:33] <mattbrejza> the last thing we want is the north poles' aprs network to become congested
[12:34] <OH7HJ-1> Remember, the balloon is in deep North now. No people to bother with QRM like in urban city areas, to which those comments are meant for.
[12:34] Nick change: G8APZ-away -> G8APZ
[12:35] <OH7HJ-1> Probably the first time in years that the World's most Northern digis have more than one or two clients...
[12:36] <LeoBodnar> it's fun to visit remote places
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[12:37] <adamgreig> I'm kind of amazed how much APRS there is up there
[12:38] <OH7HJ-1> Sure, the views from the balloon are now really magnificent..!
[12:39] <G8APZ> It seems to be stuck in 69 North for some time! Winds slowed a bit?
[12:39] <daveake> Time to switch on the SSDV :p
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[12:40] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[12:40] <G8APZ> Crossed 69North at 10:05 and still not quite past 70 North!
[12:41] <OH7HJ-1> Your balloon is giving first maybe the reason for years to switch APRS home gateways on.
[12:41] <Laurenceb> hysplit had wind slowing then speeding up a little
[12:41] <Laurenceb> it went down to 20mph, now back up to 30
[12:43] <OH7HJ-1> It is not usual that there are users for the APRS gateways. Just occasional tourists in the summer. So this balloon is very welcome visitor!
[12:44] <LeoBodnar> It also climbed to 8472m while was flying at 8300m all the the time yesterday, I wonder why
[12:44] <Laurenceb> probably the mean air temperature underneath
[12:45] <G8APZ> 69.97 North and almost clear of the coast
[12:46] <LeoBodnar> it all cancels out at first approximation, must be secondary effect of sorts
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[12:46] <G8APZ> It would be good to have 2m APRS on all the Hurtigruten ships!
[12:46] <G8APZ> inet connected of course!
[12:47] <OH7HJ-1> There may be temperature inversion on the ocean shore mountains.
[12:48] <Laurenceb> 70 degrees north
[12:48] <OH7HJ-1> The ocean and inland weathers collide there.
[12:48] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/185483_trj001.gif
[12:49] <LeoBodnar> maybe the Earth ellipsoid thing?
[12:49] <Laurenceb> no its a well known effect
[12:49] <OH7HJ-1> The mountains create a natural weather barrier.
[12:49] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth#Pressure_and_thickness
[12:50] <Laurenceb> http://weatherfaqs.org.uk/node/152
[12:50] <G8APZ> 70North must be a record for a pico!!
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[12:51] <OH7HJ-1> In Great Britain you have only ocean climate. In Scandinavia, we are in turn blown by damp and mild ocean winds, as well as extremely cold or hot mainland winds. Your balloon is crossing the final step to ocean climate.
[12:53] <mattbrejza> i wouldnt say we have only ocean climate
[12:53] <mattbrejza> although it has been that way all winter
[12:53] <adamgreig> hehe we pretty much do though
[12:53] <adamgreig> no real mountains
[12:53] <adamgreig> no steppe
[12:53] <adamgreig> no substantial plains
[12:53] <mattbrejza> some winters we get artic air instead
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[12:54] <G8APZ> Interesting to see all the digipeaters used by B-40!! >>> http://www.db0anf.de/app/aprs/stations/digiusage-M0XER-10
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[12:54] <SP3OSJ> #habhub
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[12:56] <LeoBodnar> G8APZ: are they the ones that were the first to deliver particular packet to aprs network or all that digipeated?
[12:57] <LeoBodnar> aprs.fi drops all repeated submissions so you can't really judge the footprint
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[12:57] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar I'm sorry, I don't know
[12:58] <x-f> SP3OSJ, what TX power was your /22 flight that went to Finland last week?
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[12:59] <x-f> meh
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[13:00] <G8APZ> LeoBodnar Thinking about it, they must be the first if the subsequent ones get rejected. I set the days to 2 and sorted in ascending sequence
[13:02] <OH7HJ-1> I have understood, that from fixes arrived at parallel paths, the aprs.fi records only the first ones or the ones with least digi steps
[13:03] <G8APZ> LD9TF is the last one used I think
[13:05] <LeoBodnar> yes, I was thinking about selectively adjusting APRS path over areas with dense igates population. But the analysis is difficult as if one station is consistently the quickest it will be the only one logged/shown
[13:06] <LeoBodnar> I can understand the reason - aprs.fi database would probably have increased by the factor of x10 if all the submissions were logged
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> in theory one can do a poor man's positioning system based purely on instantaneous reports coming from multiple stations
[13:08] <OH7HJ-1> I too guess no need for special path setup. However, when the balloon is descending to horizon far away over open sea, it would help copy aprs fixes if they were sent with shorter intervals.
[13:08] <LeoBodnar> yeah I agree OH7HJ-1, will do that
[13:09] <OH7HJ-1> Yes, for QRP and far-away aprs, high repetition rate helps to get copied.
[13:12] <OH7HJ-1> The signal strength of distant airborne Tx's vary in a curious way. The strength does not necessarily decrease linearly, but it instead fades up and down in intervals.
[13:13] <OH7HJ-1> A 'fresnell lens' effect, instead of the more familiar 'fresnell zone'.
[13:14] <oh10ta> guys, also if you can set TRACE on the "path" then it would show from wich digipeater it has been heard 1st and then possibly repeated to an igate. maybe not interrested but some of us watch these things for tropo conditions
[13:15] <OH7HJ-1> The signal of an away-traveling balloon, for instance, may briefly stregthen and reappear a couple of times even after it seemed to be entirely lost. In these occasions fast or constant repetition rate helps to catch last fixes.
[13:19] <OH7HJ-1> The cyclic fading appears to be caused by interference with ground while the aircraft or balloon is gettin near and below horizon.
[13:24] <LeoBodnar> ah, interesting info
[13:24] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norsj%C3%B6_aerial_tramway
[13:24] <LeoBodnar> so it's more like HF?
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[13:24] <fsphil> OH7HJ-1: I've seen this effect
[13:24] <fsphil> it happens more for payloads at about 400-600km range
[13:25] <fsphil> when they're falling or rising near the horizon they often fade completely only to come back
[13:25] <fsphil> my guess was that it was some kind of multipath
[13:25] <LeoBodnar> I am looking at the ropes and not understanding how they work
[13:25] <fsphil> refraction through the thick air
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[13:42] <Laurenceb> over the sea !
[13:43] <LeoBodnar> ths Sun is setting so less than an hour left for B-40
[13:43] <fsphil> it will B free
[13:43] <Darkside> so what was the prize?
[13:44] <fsphil> eternal glory
[13:44] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:arctic_challenge
[13:45] <Darkside> oh thre is a cash prize!
[13:45] <Darkside> oh wait
[13:45] <Darkside> someon else can still wn it
[13:45] <adamgreig> no
[13:45] <adamgreig> I think LeoBodnar has firmly won it
[13:47] <LeoBodnar> I am part sponsoring the cash prize heh
[13:47] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: donate it to the upkeep of spacenearus
[13:48] <Darkside> :P
[13:48] <LeoBodnar> It's not right to be paid for this
[13:48] <LeoBodnar> Yeah that's what I was thinking
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[13:49] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[13:49] <Darkside> or you could make a 'send an overseas speaker to UKHAS conference" fund!
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[13:49] <Darkside> >_>
[13:50] <fsphil> hah
[13:50] <LeoBodnar> 12 satellites at that latitude?
[13:50] <fsphil> we're getting Dan over again? :)
[13:50] <Darkside> meeeeeeee
[13:50] <fsphil> we totally need an AUHAB conf
[13:50] <Darkside> no way in hell i'll have the money to gt over this year
[13:50] <Darkside> hah
[13:50] <fsphil> I need an excuse to go back over
[13:50] <Darkside> theres more groups here now
[13:50] <LeoBodnar> Isn't NI technically overseas?
[13:51] <Darkside> your excuse is to come to adelaide and launch HABs
[13:51] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: aaaah good point!
[13:51] <LeoBodnar> heh
[13:51] <Darkside> hey, if you make it here im sure we can organise a launch :
[13:51] <Darkside> :P
[13:51] <LeoBodnar> Lunch'n'launch
[13:52] <Darkside> and then some HF DXing after
[13:52] <Darkside> since thats what we do
[13:52] <daveake> We should have the conf in a country with lax HAB and airborne radio rules, nice weather, wide plains, good 3G
[13:52] <daveake> Spain
[13:52] <Darkside> i can fit most of those
[13:52] <eroomde> yeah but the spanish
[13:52] <Darkside> lax hab is a bit of a hard one
[13:52] <Darkside> but we do have authorisation to launch
[13:52] <UpuWork> they don't care in Spain
[13:52] <Darkside> and we can covr the rest
[13:52] <daveake> and easycheap/quick access :)
[13:53] <Darkside> what i'm saying is you should all come visit m in australia
[13:53] <Darkside> bah
[13:53] <Darkside> its only a 23 hour flight
[13:53] <daveake> only
[13:53] <LeoBodnar> less than a day sheesh
[13:53] <Darkside> :P
[13:53] <UpuWork> Leo got to the Arctic quicker
[13:53] <daveake> hah
[13:53] <Laurenceb> i dont get why anyone would want to be a pilot
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[13:55] <SP3OSJ> habhub
[13:55] <SP3OSJ> #habhub
[13:55] <daveake> join
[13:55] <daveake> /
[13:56] <LeoBodnar> who doea?
[13:56] <LeoBodnar> s
[13:57] <LeoBodnar> most people want to become a pilot but actually don't really want to be one
[13:57] <gonzo__> commercial pilots are just a bus driver with a better uniform
[13:57] <Laurenceb> yes
[13:57] <Darkside> i had fun learnign to fly gliders
[13:57] <Darkside> but thats a bit different
[13:57] <gonzo__> light a/c ate much more fun
[13:57] <G8APZ> Next target for B-40 Jan Mayen Island!!
[13:58] <LeoBodnar> I flew a bit as well but got bored
[13:58] <gonzo__> not sure I could put up with all the burocratic BS of flying
[14:00] <gonzo__> I looked at getting a ppl (as most do)
[14:00] <Laurenceb> i think itd get boring after the first 22hours...
[14:00] <LeoBodnar> Quicker if you are good
[14:00] <LeoBodnar> you are supposed to solo before 10 hours
[14:01] <Laurenceb> i meant if you were flying to aus :P
[14:01] <LeoBodnar> haha
[14:01] <gonzo__> could take a while in a sigle engine cessna
[14:02] <LeoBodnar> twins are not much better
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[14:16] <UpuWork> B-40 is going into night again
[14:16] <Laurenceb> 70.5 degrees :D
[14:16] <eroomde> it's probably getting on for 100% night
[14:16] <eroomde> oh wait, it's at 7km
[14:16] <eroomde> that'll make a difference
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[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> LeoBodnar I like how you are currently setting the benchmark
[14:20] <Lunar_LanderU> pushing the current farthest north
[14:21] <Lunar_LanderU> I'd assume that you at least get 71°N
[14:21] <fsphil> I bet he doesn't beat 90
[14:21] <Lunar_LanderU> do you fly solar panels as always?
[14:24] <Lunar_LanderU> I'm asking because of the effect of polar day
[14:24] <DL1SGP> Lunar_LanderU: B-40 is single AAA no solar power at least if I remember correctly :)
[14:24] <Lunar_LanderU> oh ok
[14:24] <Lunar_LanderU> impressive performance though
[14:25] <fsphil> very
[14:26] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[14:26] <Lunar_LanderU> I sent a screenshot of spacenear to my prof
[14:26] <Lunar_LanderU> wonder what he will say :)
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[14:30] <eroomde> achtung
[14:30] <eroomde> ein ballonen
[14:30] <eroomde> (probably)
[14:30] <kd2eat> lol
[14:30] <DL1SGP> hehe
[14:31] <eroomde> my grasp of german is not what it could be
[14:33] <DL1SGP> 476.7 C quite hot up there
[14:33] <eroomde> having a quick reflow
[14:33] <eroomde> to get rid of any thermal stresses
[14:34] <DL1SGP> hehe
[14:34] <SP3OSJ> Hi Website is somewhere where currently the B-40? There is only APRS?
[14:34] <eroomde> spacenear.us/tracker
[14:35] <eroomde> or habhub.org/mt
[14:35] <SP3OSJ> Website design tracker B-40? B-40 there is only APRS?
[14:36] <DL1SGP> there is no page for B-40 yet, B-40 does Contesia AND APRS
[14:36] <eroomde> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/
[14:36] <DL1SGP> however right now it is being receied through APRS only
[14:36] <eroomde> that's the nearest you can get
[14:36] <eroomde> website balloon b-40 nearest
[14:37] <Lunar_LanderU> I think he would say "This is pretty interesting"
[14:37] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[14:40] <SP3OSJ> eroome: I have http://leobodnar.com/balloons/ only B-1....B32
[14:40] <Laurenceb> did temp sensor saturate?
[14:40] <eroomde> yes
[14:40] <eroomde> he uis a busy man
[14:41] <eroomde> SP3OSJ: the builder is LeoBodnar - you can ask him a question
[14:42] <SP3OSJ> Hi Leo where page B-40?
[14:44] <eroomde> Monroe: a couple of people told me that you have a question
[14:44] <eroomde> I've been away
[14:44] <eroomde> and searching backlogs on irc is something for which life is too short
[14:44] <Monroe> eroomde nice to meet you
[14:45] <eroomde> and you
[14:45] <eroomde> I think we last spoke back at N-prize
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[14:45] <Monroe> I hear you work on Skylon?
[14:45] <eroomde> yes
[14:45] <Monroe> Wow how did you manage that lol just kidding reallt cool
[14:45] <eroomde> it's quite improbably that I'll be able to answer any of your questions, especially if they're to do with Sabre, unless they're all published info
[14:46] <Monroe> in more ways than one
[14:46] <eroomde> improbable*
[14:46] <eroomde> just an annoying consequence of working on a project like that
[14:46] <Monroe> yeah I pretty much kenw that
[14:46] <Monroe> but any testing going on lately?
[14:47] <eroomde> it doesn't use fairies or nanorobots though, to answer the most common internet questions
[14:47] <eroomde> oh yes!
[14:47] <eroomde> lots going on
[14:47] <Monroe> thats really great to hear
[14:47] <Monroe> I've been looking at nano coatings
[14:47] <eroomde> uhuh
[14:48] <Monroe> thinking about a small turbine with a cooler
[14:48] <eroomde> uhuh
[14:48] <Monroe> like a Nike from the guys in the neatherlands
[14:48] <eroomde> I'm not familiar with that
[14:49] <Monroe> It's just a small hobby type turbine with 150 lbs of thrust
[14:49] <SIbot> In real units: 150 lbs = 68.0 kg
[14:50] <Monroe> Thank you SIBot
[14:50] <eroomde> OK. and you want a cooler on the front for what reason?
[14:50] <Monroe> But really congradulations on the most interesting thing going as I see it
[14:51] <eroomde> I see it that way too which is why I'm here, so thanks :)
[14:51] Nick change: Elwell_ -> Elwell
[14:51] <Monroe> I'd like to try one out as a first stage booster for a small rocket
[14:51] <eroomde> so you want it to get to an appreciable mach number under turbine?
[14:52] <Monroe> yes and a denser charge of air
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[14:52] <Monroe> Just some test
[14:53] <Monroe> The cooler is more something I can do rather than the much more complex helium system your useing
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[14:54] <eroomde> yes. I would have thought getting the power density required for anything that small would be very difficult
[14:54] <eroomde> with all ther ancillary bits of the cooling cycle
[14:54] <Monroe> It's just something I'm thinking about trying at some point
[14:54] <LeoBodnar> SP3OSJ: what is the question?
[14:55] <Monroe> I have a small spaceplane project
[14:55] <eroomde> well, like all these things, it's a careful thermodynamic balance in terms of energies required to get your to some state, and a lot of concepts don't scale very well
[14:55] <Monroe> Launching for first test in April
[14:55] <eroomde> more you get a small envelope in the parameter space where the idea is a good one
[14:56] <Monroe> The square cube laww may apply here this is true
[14:56] <eroomde> that's certainly a card in the deck you're shuffling
[14:57] <eroomde> so what's the plan with the spaceplane?
[14:57] <Monroe> I really wanted to say hello and great stuff to you more than anything
[14:57] <Monroe> It's a high altitude balloon launched atonimous spacecraft
[14:58] <Monroe> And a very long conversation required to discribe fully :)
[14:59] <eroomde> well i've just finished 2 very hard weeks of work so don't mind a long conversation
[14:59] <SP3OSJ> Hi Leo where page B-40?
[14:59] <eroomde> yes for the love of jesus leo you're letting down the internet
[14:59] <eroomde> get with it
[14:59] <x-f> SP3OSJ, what TX power was your /22 flight that went to Finland last week?
[14:59] <eroomde> Monroe: so is it atop a rockoon?
[15:00] <Monroe> The flight in April is just a drop with rocket ignition
[15:00] <Monroe> July we test the Rockoon without the plane aboard
[15:01] <Monroe> Then perhaps next year we try with the soaceplane
[15:02] <Monroe> We have to redesing the X-11E-F after drop trials
[15:02] <LeoBodnar> SP3OSJ: There is no page for B-40, what do you want to know?
[15:02] <Monroe> The new one for the rockoon will be X-12A
[15:02] <eroomde> what kind of rocket engine Monroe?
[15:02] <Monroe> Just solid rocke motors for us
[15:03] <Monroe> for now
[15:03] <eroomde> what kind of impulses?
[15:03] <eroomde> I understanmd HPR letter notation
[15:03] <Monroe> Perhaps with funding we can work on a peroxide/kero design
[15:03] <Monroe> The rockoon will be a 2 stage N-N
[15:04] <Monroe> in July
[15:04] <eroomde> cool
[15:04] <Monroe> I just tested a gimbaled Q motor last September
[15:04] <eroomde> quite big for a balloon!
[15:04] <eroomde> I did a 2-stage N-M a couple of years ago, as part of a team with my old university group
[15:04] <eroomde> just ground launch though
[15:05] <Monroe> I have a Raven 170,000 cft balloon on hand for the mission
[15:05] <Darkside> ZP is cheating >_>
[15:05] <SP3OSJ> LeoBodnar: The balloon is a foil? Any special design?
[15:05] <Monroe> The Q was a ground launch yes
[15:05] <Darkside> also $$$$$$ of gas
[15:05] <Monroe> Hydrogen gas
[15:06] <eroomde> how did you gimbal the Q?
[15:06] <Monroe> not nearly as bad as helium
[15:06] <eroomde> guimbaling solids, unless they're small, seems very cumberson to me
[15:06] <Monroe> ahhh well that's the secret for now
[15:06] <eroomde> we all have our secrets
[15:07] <Monroe> it worked nomaly for the 9 seconds it was good for
[15:07] <eroomde> i made a jetavator thing ones. but i just think moving a biprop chamber around is vastle easier
[15:07] <Monroe> I have a short vid of the launch
[15:07] <Laurenceb> spun solid ftw
[15:07] <LeoBodnar> B-40 is a standard Qualatex 36" foil balloon
[15:07] <Monroe> Your pretty snart there eroomde all I can say
[15:08] <Monroe> just cant give details just now
[15:08] <Monroe> Reason being the guy's that paid for the gear to make the propellant
[15:09] <Monroe> I gave the right to use the nozzle
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[15:09] <eroomde> fair enough
[15:09] <Monroe> yeah I think so lots of US folks are mad I wont share
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[15:10] <Monroe> but you know I could not afford $20,000 for the gear to make propellant
[15:10] <Monroe> so I don't see what all the fuss is about
[15:10] <eroomde> it's not a cheap game
[15:11] <Monroe> your in the way over the top budget end you know
[15:11] <eroomde> but you can fund it with a few research projects
[15:11] <eroomde> well, skylon is for sure
[15:11] <eroomde> it's gotten very serious in the last few years
[15:11] <eroomde> though the team is still small and close, so we can move quickly, which I like
[15:12] <eroomde> but having been in a position of doing rocket stuff without money, I still think you can do alright with a few reserahc projects
[15:12] <Monroe> You have what you need there it's important for you to have agility
[15:12] <eroomde> you can use about 50% of your time doing rocket research for someone else, and still fill your boots with swagelok at the end
[15:13] <eroomde> we've been doing some interesting side projects that i can talk about
[15:13] <Monroe> I'll be happy to break even someday
[15:13] <eroomde> e.g. looking at propellant combinations you could synthesize on mars
[15:13] <Monroe> do tell!
[15:13] <Monroe> hummm
[15:13] <eroomde> we tested out a whole bunch of things
[15:14] <eroomde> methane and oxygen, nasties like cyanogens, carmon monoxide and oxygen
[15:14] <Monroe> Now your going to have me looking at mars geology
[15:14] <eroomde> infact CO+) was quite respectable
[15:14] <SP3OSJ> LeoBodnar: Contestia is closed at night, or power very small and there is no answer?
[15:14] <eroomde> and not to hariy to ignite
[15:14] <eroomde> methane is a pig with oxygen
[15:14] <Monroe> yeah theres a whole world of rocke fuels out there
[15:15] <Monroe> yes too bad for titian
[15:15] <eroomde> nice isp but the combustion time is an order of magnitude, or 3, greater than kero+oxygen or IPA + oxygen, so getting good mixing is super hard
[15:15] <eroomde> CO+O http://www.flickr.com/photos/eroomde/8371635016/
[15:15] <LeoBodnar> SP3OSJ: Contestia is a digital mode
[15:16] <Monroe> PRETTY
[15:16] <eroomde> yes it was a very beautiful blue
[15:16] <Monroe> where you at the test?
[15:16] <eroomde> Westcott
[15:16] <SP3OSJ> I know
[15:17] <eroomde> it was formerly, after WW2, the Rocket Propulsion Establishment
[15:17] <eroomde> that died in the 80s, it turned into a general business park, but all the test stands were there begging to be refurbished
[15:17] <eroomde> which we have done (well, a few)
[15:17] <Monroe> Yeah that's right not my neaborhood but now I remember
[15:17] <eroomde> this is where all the rocket testing happens anyway, the intake stuff is all elsewhere
[15:18] <SP3OSJ> See yesterday hour from ~ 20 to 24 Finland
[15:18] <Monroe> yeah you guy's keep a lid on that tight
[15:18] <eroomde> yes
[15:18] <Monroe> If I find a nano coating by accident that works I wont tell either
[15:19] <eroomde> well
[15:19] <eroomde> that's presuming it has anything to do with coatings
[15:19] <LeoBodnar> shock diamonds! ooo!
[15:19] <Monroe> I think the whole rocket community is rooting for you
[15:19] <Monroe> yeah I'm presuming
[15:20] <eroomde> i'll just upload a photo of one of our test bays
[15:20] <Monroe> cool!
[15:20] <eroomde> this was the test for lapcat, a 100% airbreathing sabre varient for supersonic/hypersonic flight
[15:21] <eroomde> it was an experiment to design a chamber to keep the equilibrium conditions such that the oxygen combusted but the nitrogen didn't (which would be bad)
[15:21] <eroomde> we tested it out with laser spectroscopy of the plume
[15:21] <eroomde> it worked rather well
[15:21] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/uzEDKnZ.jpg
[15:22] <Monroe> Is that an aluminum nozzle?
[15:22] <eroomde> copper
[15:22] <Monroe> regen
[15:23] <eroomde> i think i can show you this picture too as it's quite a few years old
[15:23] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/KZBhLvg.jpg
[15:23] <eroomde> which was an experiment in altitude-compensating nozzles
[15:23] <adamgreig> "STRICT" huh?
[15:23] <adamgreig> pretty plumbing tho
[15:23] <eroomde> just a big hunk of copper, acting as a heat sink, and you keep the burn times low
[15:24] <Monroe> yeah it sure is pretty
[15:24] <eroomde> if you use gaseos propellents you've reached stable combustion in about 100ms anyway
[15:24] <Monroe> I've been learning to weld copper
[15:24] <Lunar_LanderU> eroomde: good work!
[15:24] <eroomde> so you can run for a couple of seconds in equilibrium and get many thousands of datapoints in the time
[15:25] <eroomde> welding copper sounds unpleasant
[15:25] <SP3OSJ> LeoBodnar: Since yesterday evening, no answer balloon B-40 only APRS why? Where is Contestina (digital mode)?
[15:25] <Monroe> it is very
[15:25] <Lunar_LanderU> so Carbon Monoxide and Oxygen is a good rocket fuel?
[15:25] <eroomde> i have only ever really done milt, stainless and ali
[15:25] <eroomde> Lunar_LanderU: it's merely ok
[15:25] <eroomde> in terms of ISP
[15:25] <Monroe> but you know we are pretty backyard in comparison
[15:25] <eroomde> (220 or something?)
[15:25] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[15:26] <eroomde> but that's respectable given you can make it by just splitting the CO2 of the martian atmosphere
[15:26] <Lunar_LanderU> yes
[15:26] <Monroe> did you say what Isp you achieved with the methane?
[15:26] <eroomde> no
[15:26] <eroomde> don't recall, it was fairly textbook though
[15:26] <LeoBodnar> SP3OSJ: there are no listeners on UHF up there
[15:26] <eroomde> 3xx
[15:27] <Monroe> Yeah Armadillo made a deal with NASA on a methane engine I think blew up as soon as NASA got it
[15:27] <eroomde> it's nice once you get it stable
[15:28] <eroomde> just the combustion time issue means the injector design needs to be a bit sporting
[15:28] <Monroe> Yeah I noticed that injector interesting
[15:28] <eroomde> on armadillo?
[15:29] <Monroe> on you photo there or was that just above without the injector plate
[15:29] <Monroe> inside that copper combustion chamber
[15:30] <eroomde> the injectors are on that rig but not visible
[15:30] <eroomde> you're just looking at the nozzle
[15:30] <eroomde> it's an ed nozzle
[15:30] <eroomde> with a very specific geometry
[15:30] <eroomde> but i suspect you're seeing the pintle there
[15:30] <Monroe> Ohh ok I see I thought that was half the combustion chamber
[15:30] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ED_nozzle_cutaway_view.jpg
[15:30] <Laurenceb> looks like B-40 died
[15:31] <Laurenceb> ~70.9 degrees N
[15:31] <SP3OSJ> LeoBodnar: OK. Now there is. At night, in Finland there were 12 stations were all in radio extent
[15:31] <LeoBodnar> It's done its deeds well, B-40
[15:31] <Monroe> B-40 died?
[15:32] <UpuWork> missed a TX
[15:32] <eroomde> Habmundsen
[15:32] <UpuWork> Vbatt: 0.834 V,
[15:32] <UpuWork> NEVAR FORGET
[15:32] <UpuWork> good effort that Leo
[15:32] <Monroe> Yeah that's the pintle there
[15:32] <UpuWork> would love to know where it finally ends up
[15:33] <UpuWork> sadly we'll never know
[15:33] <Monroe> I'm really enjoying Leo's work here eroomde
[15:34] <eroomde> it's good
[15:34] <Monroe> these guy's are regular aeronauts
[15:34] <eroomde> though some credit goes to god for obliging leo with an extremely freak jet stream
[15:34] <UpuWork> technially inaccurate
[15:34] <UpuWork> its all the gays having sex Ed
[15:35] <UpuWork> we've discussed this
[15:35] <Monroe> lol yeah he found the right spot alright
[15:35] <DL1SGP> sighs farewell B-40
[15:35] <eroomde> timing
[15:35] <UpuWork> makes god angry thereby permitting Leo to fly to the Arctic
[15:35] <UpuWork> god does indeed work in mysterious ways
[15:35] <eroomde> Leo's balloon gets smiled upon because he stays away from the latex
[15:36] <Monroe> I've got some new material I want Leo to try out
[15:36] <eroomde> we made a ZP machine once
[15:36] <eroomde> never flew one though
[15:36] <Monroe> ZP machine?
[15:36] <eroomde> i think someone found soem regaultory issue that slightly derailed it
[15:36] <Monroe> oh zero pressure
[15:36] <eroomde> + we thought we could do a 100km rockoon from a 3kg latex
[15:37] <Monroe> was there a reg issue?
[15:37] <craag> The rockoon idea is still alive at susf
[15:37] <eroomde> http://www.cusf.co.uk/images/balloonshapes.JPG
[15:37] <craag> albeit a fair few years off yet
[15:37] <eroomde> the one of the left was the one we did by hand
[15:38] <Lunar_LanderU> cool!
[15:38] <eroomde> but it just took so long, you can see why they make these things in hicksvill, USA
[15:38] <Monroe> looks fine to me!
[15:38] <eroomde> the ones on the right sacrificed optimum shape for speed of construction
[15:38] <eroomde> and were about 100x quicker to make
[15:39] <Monroe> I use a sandwich bag sealer that's my big secret
[15:39] <eroomde> we bought a continuous rolling seam welder
[15:39] <eroomde> that's what made the difference
[15:39] <Monroe> little thunb operated jobs
[15:39] <eroomde> before that we made up a sandwich bag welder thing with some mdf
[15:39] <eroomde> it was gash
[15:40] <Monroe> lol
[15:40] <Monroe> So when's the rockoon deal going?
[15:40] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3740188827/in/set-72157621628336895
[15:40] <eroomde> that's iain and I at university
[15:40] <eroomde> we now both work together on skylon
[15:40] <eroomde> he's sitting next to me
[15:40] <eroomde> swearing at solidworks
[15:41] <Monroe> yeah I can relate
[15:41] <Monroe> the preimum version? Doing things like FEA ect...
[15:42] <eroomde> yes, though i'm not a big FEA fan
[15:42] <eroomde> whereever possible we just try and use maths from first principles
[15:42] <eroomde> FEA is a bit of a crutch that can let people who shouldn't be doing it think they're designing something safely
[15:42] <Monroe> yeah well it has merit for us little guys solid works prienum is better than nothing
[15:43] <eroomde> no arguing with it though when you're trying to eek out another couple of percent on mass efficiency
[15:43] <Monroe> Yeah you right about that it's just a tool
[15:43] <Monroe> experience can bet FEA
[15:43] <eroomde> we're little guys too :)
[15:43] <eroomde> i suspect experience will always beat FEA
[15:43] <Monroe> well I'm proud of you guys
[15:44] <Monroe> you did good
[15:44] <eroomde> the precooler working steady-state has got a lot of people excited
[15:44] <eroomde> around the world
[15:44] <Monroe> yeah it hot for sure
[15:44] <eroomde> it suddenly become not science fiction
[15:45] <Monroe> funny thing about science fiction huh
[15:45] <Monroe> it becomes science fact
[15:45] <Monroe> faster and faster these days
[15:45] <eroomde> within limits
[15:46] <Monroe> unfortunatly yes
[15:46] <eroomde> i've worked in industries before where there are just fundamental scientific limits that stop the field progeressing as you'd like
[15:46] <Monroe> yeah and time is still a big factor
[15:46] <eroomde> time needs money
[15:47] <Monroe> yeah
[15:47] <eroomde> you need to get yourself to the point where the rate limited thing is time rather than money
[15:47] <Monroe> Perhaps we will get some funding for our little spaceplane
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[15:48] <Monroe> And yeah that's why I'm so happy to see you guy's succeed
[15:48] <eroomde> need $1k on swagelok fittings tomorrow? spend it.
[15:48] <eroomde> design a complicated pintle valvue that needs $10k of CNC machining? send the drawings off now
[15:48] <eroomde> it's good
[15:49] <SpeedEvil> 'waste anything but time'
[15:49] <eroomde> our ability to work through problems and absorb the results of testing should be the rate limiting step
[15:49] <eroomde> like the old skunkworks way
[15:49] <Monroe> yeah go man go!
[15:50] <eroomde> although we have a cnc firm, we also have a lathe and cnc bridgeport in the workshop here next to the office. it's wonderful to just be able to go and make a bit having just designed it. now week turnaround with external machinists
[15:50] <eroomde> it's a playground
[15:50] <eroomde> no week-long turnaround*
[15:50] <Monroe> well I'll be heading out now I have to work on our mission control
[15:50] <eroomde> get some funding!
[15:51] <Monroe> If we do things wil fly
[15:51] <Monroe> :)
[15:51] <eroomde> it's >50% of the battle
[15:51] <Monroe> keep looking up!
[15:51] <eroomde> the engineering bit is easy :)
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[15:52] <Monroe> go there
[15:52] <eroomde> good luck
[15:52] <Monroe> if you can
[15:52] <Monroe> ttyl!
[15:52] <Monroe> Godspeed
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[15:54] <LeoBodnar> heh http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/Balloon-Welding-Jobbie.jpg
[15:54] <LeoBodnar> not sure if it works
[15:54] <eroomde> lol LeoBodnar
[15:54] <Darkside> good lord
[15:54] <Darkside> that looks serious
[15:54] <adamgreig> looks about as terrifying as the toolboxes in the photo ed posted
[15:54] <eroomde> microwave transformer?
[15:54] <UpuWork> haha
[15:54] <adamgreig> just, all the scary parts are hidden inside the toolbox for those
[15:54] <adamgreig> opening them up is nightmare inducing
[15:55] <UpuWork> I think I'll stick to my wheel thingy
[15:55] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3740983594/in/set-72157621628336895
[15:55] <eroomde> we did make it in about 7 minutes :)
[15:55] <Darkside> oh jeez
[15:55] <Darkside> did you wind your own transformer fore
[15:55] <Darkside> core*
[15:55] <eroomde> i've not convinced that the straight sections welding route is a go-er for super-pressures
[15:55] <eroomde> Darkside: yes
[15:55] <eroomde> chiselled the original out of a microwave one
[15:55] <eroomde> rewound it
[15:56] <Darkside> eek
[15:56] <Darkside> ok
[15:56] <Lunar_LanderU> LeoBodnar earlier I wondered about the effect of polar day would B-40 have carried solar cells
[15:56] <UpuWork> have a guess Lunar :)
[15:56] <Lunar_LanderU> could have prolonged life
[15:56] <Lunar_LanderU> maybe
[15:57] <eroomde> probably less good during polar winter
[15:57] <Lunar_LanderU> given that at night the sun reached fairly low altitude but does not set
[15:57] <Lunar_LanderU> yeah
[15:57] <Lunar_LanderU> definately
[15:58] <Laurenceb> polar lair of the polar bear
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[16:02] <UpuWork> I don't think its in the not setting zone Lunar, open http://habitat.habhub.org/mobile-tracker/ and turn on sun overlay
[16:03] <LeoBodnar> Lunar_LanderU: that's Arctic summer, not winter
[16:03] <LeoBodnar> North Pole will not see Sun until spring
[16:03] <Lunar_LanderU> ah, right
[16:04] <Lunar_LanderU> I was a bit too early in the year
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[16:11] <Willdude123> Afternoon
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[16:13] <Willdude123> ping eroomde how did your 2 weeks go?
[16:13] <eroomde> quickly
[16:14] <Willdude123> Cool. I did almost nothing
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[16:15] <Willdude123> Well, exactly the same, just without this irc channel
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[16:16] <eroomde> i did some fun stuff at work
[16:20] <Willdude123> I did some boring stuff at school
[16:20] <Willdude123> and started a cs course I think I might even be able to complete
[16:21] <eroomde> good
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[16:46] <Laurenceb> http://www.ghostnasa.com/
[16:46] <Laurenceb> ill just leave this here
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[16:49] <Lunar_LanderU> LeoBodnar great circle distance 2365 km
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[16:54] <LeoBodnar> thanks Lunar_LanderU
[16:54] <Lunar_LanderU> you are welcome
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[17:33] Nick change: LeoBodnar__ -> LeoBodnar
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[17:58] <DL7AD> good evening
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[18:06] <Laurenceb> attn eroomde
[18:06] <Laurenceb> http://spacefellowship.com/news/art29703/arca-has-completed-the-first-executor-rocket-engine.html
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[18:25] <Turan> I've a problem: I cant hear something from the NTX2B with my Yupiteru MVT-7200. There is nothing. How can I solve this problem?
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[18:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar_: Congratulations ! :-)
[18:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
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[18:29] <Turan> I've a problem: I cant hear something from the NTX2B with my Yupiteru MVT-7200. There is nothing. How can I solve this problem?
[18:29] <bertrik> Turan: are you trying to develop a balloon payload?
[18:29] <daveake> Turan - make sure it's set to USB or LSB; make sure squelch is off; turn volume up; make sure NTX2B has power and that the enable pin is tied to Vcc
[18:30] <daveake> Then tune around the NTX2B frequency and you should hear a tone, which will change as you tune
[18:30] <Turan> everything checked.
[18:30] <Turan> No noise
[18:31] <daveake> no sounds at all?
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[18:31] <bertrik> I think you should hear something, even without an antenna on the NTX2
[18:31] <daveake> you should get noise if nothing else
[18:33] <Turan> there is "senseless" (hiss) noise but nothing like the ntx2b
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[18:33] <daveake> then it's wrong frequency or one of the other things I mentioned
[18:34] <Turan> I turned to USB 434.300.000 (+/- 10 kHz) nothing
[18:35] <daveake> I can pretty much guarantee it's one of the things I mentioned
[18:37] <LeoBodnar> evening SP9UOB-Tom
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[18:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: evening :-) Im really not surprised ;-)
[18:41] <LeoBodnar> Heh thanks
[18:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: nice telemetry bits anyway ;-)
[18:42] <LeoBodnar> :D
[18:43] <LeoBodnar> This sonde you have sent me, do you use RF stage on the balloons or for ground stations
[18:43] <bertrik> for crossing the arctic circle?
[18:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: on the ground. Just playing with it
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> I see, I am interested to know whether higher signal significantly reduces UBLOX average consumed current
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[18:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
[18:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar congratulations Leo :-)
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[18:58] <DL7AD> hi OZ1SKY_Brian
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[18:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Sven
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[18:59] <LeoBodnar> thanks Brian! All the Scandinavia at one fell swoop
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> evening
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[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, the great circle result was by wolframalpha by the way
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> my own calculation gave 2359.5 km I think
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> have to check the paper again
[19:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar fantastic, too bad there are no aprs on svalbard
[19:00] <Lunar_Lander> evening OZ1SKY_Brian
[19:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Lunar
[19:01] <Lunar_Lander> what an amazing flight this was
[19:01] <fsphil> I guess that makes Leo the King of the North
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[19:06] <jcoxon> congratulations LeoBodnar
[19:06] <jcoxon> i think you win
[19:07] <jcoxon> bbl
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[19:07] <Willdude123> So I'm really stuck for ideas
[19:08] <Willdude123> I have to make a program in scratch for my CS hw
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[19:09] <Willdude123> I have no ideas for a game, pong might be a good idea I guess
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[19:09] <fsphil> snake
[19:10] <fsphil> a nice easy game to make
[19:10] <Willdude123> Need to have something relatively complex though, as the grading system probably evaluates complexity
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[19:10] <fsphil> not pong then :)
[19:11] <arko> as a person who did tetris for his CS final
[19:11] <arko> be careful
[19:11] <arko> tetris was way harder than i thought
[19:11] <arko> oddly, but then again i was like 15 or 16
[19:11] <arko> i dont imagine my code was very good
[19:12] <adamgreig> tetris ain't so hard :P
[19:12] <arko> it really isn't
[19:12] <adamgreig> https://github.com/adamgreig/arduino_tetris/blob/master/tetris.c
[19:12] <arko> haha nice
[19:13] <adamgreig> http://www.flickr.com/photos/randomskk/3435153743
[19:13] <fsphil> video out?
[19:13] <ibanezmatt13> that looks awesome :)
[19:13] <arko> awww
[19:13] <adamgreig> no, a tiny LCD screen from sparkfun
[19:13] <adamgreig> the $2 ones
[19:13] <arko> its so cute
[19:13] <fsphil> ah sweet
[19:13] <adamgreig> birthday present for a friend
[19:13] <adamgreig> day's work. only regret is that I couldn't get it to do the tetris music
[19:13] <arko> haha
[19:13] <adamgreig> home made pcb too, which is a right pain with those LCDs
[19:13] <adamgreig> like 40 pin flat connector or something
[19:13] <fsphil> duh duh duh duh duh dit
[19:14] Action: fsphil looks over at his 32x16 LED matrix screen
[19:14] <Willdude123> Hmm
[19:14] <fsphil> oooooh
[19:14] <arko> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trGkPerU3-k
[19:14] <Willdude123> I guess pong could be made more complex
[19:14] <fsphil> aaah
[19:14] <arko> adamgreig: i feel stupid now
[19:14] <arko> haha
[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> Guys, would I be able to ask a super quick Q about GoPro? My Uncle's friend is kindly donating and is wondering which is better for HAB. He suggested getting a GP 3 white edition but seemed a bit new for hab :P
[19:15] <adamgreig> if it's any consolation it was buggy :P
[19:15] <adamgreig> some people prefer GP2s for some reason
[19:16] <adamgreig> personally had no issue with GP3s, white is fine, cusf have used blacks too
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13> Awesome, any battery life or heating issues?
[19:16] <adamgreig> either way get the battery bacpak
[19:16] <adamgreig> don't use the case
[19:16] <adamgreig> that's really it
[19:16] <adamgreig> bbl hometime
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13> thanks!
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[19:19] <daveake> and use the latest firmware
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> yeah. So they do the addon battery pack for the GP3 just to confirm?
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I can Google actually :P
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> yeah they do
[19:21] <Willdude123> It's a start :) http://i.imgur.com/1q3RmUn.png
[19:21] <Willdude123> I might make each 'tick' into an event
[19:21] <kd2eat> Willdude123: Tons of ideas here: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEB09A7C8641987A8
[19:22] <Willdude123> kd2eat, a lot of those it'd be quite difficult to implement in scratch
[19:22] <Willdude123> :P
[19:22] <Willdude123> But thanks anyway
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> I have just inherited some 60 year old 2 stroke model airplane engines from the mid 50s! Perfect for my early insights into engineering. Can't believe I don't know how engines work... :P
[19:23] <chrisstubbs> Wow nice work LeoBodnar
[19:23] <LeoBodnar> cheers Chris
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> yeah well done, I didn't realise it got that for north!
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[19:27] <Willdude123> I might have to write a sprite for each block
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[20:21] <Willdude123> fsphil, snake is remarkably difficult to implement in scratch
[20:22] <LeoBodnar> you code in scratch too?
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[20:24] <Willdude123> Well, 'coding' is a loose term here :P
[20:25] <LeoBodnar> :)
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[20:28] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:34] <Willdude123> The annoying thing is that in scratch every object is separate. So I have to write scripts for every sprite
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[20:36] <Rocketmagnet> Hello
[20:37] <Rocketmagnet> Anyone around tonight ?
[20:38] <daveake> nope
[20:38] <SpeedEvil> No.
[20:39] <Rocketmagnet> damn...
[20:39] <gb73d> i just had a powercut
[20:40] <gb73d> was on 12V inverter for a while
[20:40] <gb73d> laptop + wifi modem + inveter + 100aH battery
[20:41] <gb73d> storm here tonight 30 miles W of London
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> I'm not here
[20:42] <gonzo_nb> I've never been all there
[20:42] <gonzo_nb> gb73d, you on a rural supply, or a serious outage?
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[20:42] <LeoBodnar> Sometimes I am but not all at once
[20:43] <LeoBodnar> sup Rocketmagnet ?
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> ah storm
[20:49] <Lunar_Lander> wait
[20:50] <Lunar_Lander> http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=83127&src=fb
[20:52] <Rocketmagnet> Sorry, I'm back.
[20:52] <Rocketmagnet> Just having more APRS misery
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> APRS served me well today, I won't whinge
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> *temporarily
[20:53] <Rocketmagnet> Strange thing. I can send a packet to my Kenwood D7
[20:53] <Rocketmagnet> Picks it up OK.
[20:54] <Rocketmagnet> As soon as I put it in 'Packet' mode, it totally ignores me!
[20:54] <LeoBodnar> I think it disables de-emphasis in packet mode (my guess)
[20:55] <Rocketmagnet> I have tried with and without pre-emphasis at my transmitter.
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> but good demodulator should be able to cope with either
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> how do you start the packet?
[20:56] <Rocketmagnet> With loads of flags?
[20:57] <Rocketmagnet> I'm using Mic-E, so the real meat of the packet starts with that encoded data in the destination.
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[20:58] <gb73d> gonzo semi rural, that was 1st cut we had done well, not in a flood risk area
[21:00] <gonzo_nb> blowing like buggery here so was wondering if we would get one
[21:00] <gonzo_nb> not rural, but limited feeds into the area
[21:00] <gb73d> they seem to have solved it in 30 mins
[21:00] <gb73d> redirec ted prolly
[21:00] <gb73d> back later 73s
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[21:01] <Rocketmagnet> LeoBodnar, here's a picture of my audio waveform: http://hugosprojects.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/aprs_test.gif
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[21:03] <LeoBodnar> Actually I suggest using only one flag
[21:03] <Rocketmagnet> Really ?
[21:03] <Rocketmagnet> Why ?
[21:03] <Rocketmagnet> Doesn't it need to transmit flags while the transmitter powers up ?
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> because it starts the packet so only last of them matters
[21:04] <Rocketmagnet> I'll try it.
[21:05] <Rocketmagnet> The thing is that I can receive packets just fine if they come from my Yaesu transmitter. And that sends loads of flags.
[21:05] <LeoBodnar> but you need something to fill in the space
[21:05] <LeoBodnar> the best is to use 0x00 bytes
[21:05] <Rocketmagnet> But for some reason, the combination of my transmitter + packet mode doesn't work.
[21:05] <LeoBodnar> because they will generate fastest transition between two tones
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> this is excellent sequence for the demodulator to get the lock
[21:06] <Rocketmagnet> Won't 0x00s be interpreted as part of the packet? I thought the point of flags what they they cannot be part of a packet because they break the bit stuffing rule.
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[21:07] <LeoBodnar> demodulator is always searching for a packet
[21:07] <Rocketmagnet> Well, let me try it ...
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> so key the transmitter, send 100ms worth of 0x00 the one flag then your packet, then two flags and key TX off
[21:09] <Rocketmagnet> Oh, I see what you mean.
[21:09] <Rocketmagnet> I thought you meant 0x00 x loads, then my packet immediately after.
[21:10] <Rocketmagnet> ok, one sec...
[21:10] <LeoBodnar> don't forget to send something after the trailing flag
[21:11] <LeoBodnar> before keying off
[21:11] <LeoBodnar> APRS is NRZI so it needs one bit more than actual number of bits in the raw data
[21:11] <LeoBodnar> extra flag would do
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> or anything really
[21:12] <Rocketmagnet> I send a few flags at the end.
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[21:14] <LeoBodnar> cool
[21:15] <Rocketmagnet> No, it didn't like those extra zeros.
[21:15] <LeoBodnar> well I am not sure what to suggest
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> wait, what do you mean audio waveform
[21:16] <LeoBodnar> is it what's on RF?
[21:16] <Rocketmagnet> Did you look at my image ?
[21:17] <Rocketmagnet> I'm using a Radiometrix HX1 transmitter: http://www.radiometrix.com/content/hx1
[21:17] <Rocketmagnet> I'm feeding it an audio signal containing 1200Hz and 2200Hz tones.
[21:17] <Rocketmagnet> Is that wrong ?
[21:17] <Rocketmagnet> See this: http://hugosprojects.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/aprs_test.gif
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> is it what is going into the HX1?
[21:18] <Rocketmagnet> yes
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> then it is correct
[21:18] <Rocketmagnet> Cool.
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> I thought this is what receiver produces
[21:18] <Rocketmagnet> No.
[21:18] <Rocketmagnet> I can't get a good audio signal out of the receiver
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[21:19] <Rocketmagnet> So the mistery is still why the Kenwood D7 happily receives a message when it's not in Packet mode, but totally ignores me in Packet mode.
[21:20] <Rocketmagnet> But! It's happy to receive a message from the Yaesu.
[21:20] <Rocketmagnet> What on earth could the reason be ?
[21:21] <DL1SGP1> does the Yaesu receive your packets from HX1 fine?
[21:22] <Rocketmagnet> Yes.
[21:22] <Rocketmagnet> But we haven't tried connecting the Yaesu to the PC.
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[21:22] <Rocketmagnet> So I'm not sure if it would have the same problem.
[21:23] <DL1SGP1> ah you could test that, to see if you can decode via soundcard... if you are on XP you can use AGWPE for instance
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> the best test is to TX the shortest packet you can then record audio and go over it with a pen and paper
[21:24] <LeoBodnar> it could be timing or it could be content
[21:24] <DL1SGP1> basically if you hear the audio fine coming out of the yaesu once the HX1 is transmitting, it does not forcefully mean taht you are producing a well-formed package for the Kenwood to decode
[21:24] <Rocketmagnet> I have tried decoding the packet via sound card, and it decodes perfecty every time.
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[21:25] <DL1SGP1> does the D7 pick up other APRS traffic in a proper way?
[21:26] <Rocketmagnet> Also, the packet seems well formed because both the D7 and the Yaesu receive the message fine normally.
[21:26] <Rocketmagnet> It only stops working when the D7 is in packet mode.
[21:27] <Rocketmagnet> The D7 does pick up other APRS packets from other transmitters than my HX1. E.G. it picks up packets from the Yaesu.
[21:27] <DL1SGP1> checked packet mode configuration?
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[21:27] <DL1SGP1> hmm
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[21:28] <Rocketmagnet> What do you mean by "packet mode configuration" ?
[21:28] <DL1SGP1> not sure then I do not have any experience with a D7 but sounds more like something in the settings or so, if it picks up everything else fine...
[21:28] <Rocketmagnet> The problem is I know my packet is fine because the D7 picks it up.
[21:29] <Rocketmagnet> And I know that Packet mode works, because it accepts packets from the Yaesu.
[21:30] <DL1SGP1> and other stations, yep
[21:30] <Rocketmagnet> yep
[21:30] <Rocketmagnet> The *only* combination which doesn't work is the one combination I need!
[21:30] <Rocketmagnet> It's driving me crazy.
[21:30] <Rocketmagnet> Gotta get this balloon finished for the GPSL in Kansas.
[21:33] <LeoBodnar> you need to research what "packet" mode is
[21:33] <LeoBodnar> I thought it makes TX / RX path flat
[21:33] <LeoBodnar> so it won't pre-emphasize on TX and won't de-emphasize on RX
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[21:37] <Rocketmagnet> I've tried with and without pre-emphasis from my transmitter. Neither work.
[21:39] <DL1SGP1> sent you a direct message Rocketmagnet
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> ah good point
[21:39] <jtx77> Is there any cheap alternative to hx1? Aprs module
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> could be content specific
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[21:42] <Upu> jtx77 not unless you roll your own
[21:42] <Upu> its not that expensive
[21:42] <Upu> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=71_63&product_id=69
[21:42] <Upu> £20
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[21:45] <LeoBodnar> 300mW oooh nice!
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> how heavy is it?
[21:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: 4.5 gram
[21:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> 4.4g now ;-)
[21:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> according to my chinese scale ;-)
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[21:52] <LeoBodnar> without case?
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> hmmm
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[22:04] <kd2eat> I may buy one of those HX1s. I should have started that way to begin with. Learning to do surface mount soldering, starting from scratch, with 0402s what a rather foolhardy move on my part. lol
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[22:07] <Rocketmagnet> I can teach you 0402 soldering.
[22:07] <Rocketmagnet> It's not as hard as you think.
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[22:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: with steel casing
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> nice
[22:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: it needs 5V :-(
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> hmm
[22:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> High voltage ;-)
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> lol
[22:19] <kd2eat> Oh, I know very well how to solder 0402s..... NOW.... lol
[22:20] <kd2eat> I went from not knowing what surface mount soldering WAS to building a pico board in 2 months. lol
[22:20] <LeoBodnar> Rocketmagnet meant teaching is easier than you think :)
[22:20] <kd2eat> I'm getting pretty handy with my new hot air rework station.
[22:20] <kd2eat> lol
[22:20] <Rocketmagnet> Well, having good tools *really* helps.
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[22:23] <kd2eat> That was the best part. It was an excuse to buy LOTS of new tools... hot air station, built a reflow oven, tweezers, picks, solder sucker, solder paste squeezer thingie.... hehe
[22:23] <adwiens_KC0WYS> Rocketmagnet: amen to that
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[22:25] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[22:26] <Rocketmagnet> At work we're lucky enough to have one of those Weller RT irons.
[22:26] <Rocketmagnet> It makes soldering a breeze.
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[22:39] <eroomde> yo
[22:40] <Laurenceb_> hi eroomde
[22:40] <eroomde> valentines day stay-up-late time as my ladyfriend is in nevada
[22:41] <eroomde> gonna be like 1am here before she can get on skype
[22:41] <arko> eroomde: you should go to nevada
[22:41] <eroomde> yes
[22:42] <eroomde> well i have been through it
[22:42] <arko> we still doing that road trip?
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[22:42] <eroomde> i'm not completely sure exactly which rocket event and times etc
[22:42] <eroomde> but yes
[22:42] <eroomde> in principle def
[22:42] <eroomde> just no idea what actual dates are
[22:42] <eroomde> like trying to look through a mountain atm
[22:43] <arko> ahh
[22:43] <eroomde> i first need to climb the mountain
[22:43] <eroomde> of work
[22:43] <arko> cool
[22:43] <eroomde> this metaphor is heavy
[22:43] <arko> roll deep
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[22:46] <fsphil> you're rocking it
[22:48] <kd2eat> lol
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[22:51] <kd2eat> So, I asked my Wife what movie we should see for our Valentine's Day Date Night. Her reply: "Robocop". I love this woman!
[22:52] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lol nice
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[22:53] <adwiens_KC0WYS> In Eagle 6 if I do "Use None" on the libraries, they still show up in the Add window: http://i.imgur.com/JlQapaP.png
[22:53] <adwiens_KC0WYS> Does anyone know why?
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[22:57] <adwiens_KC0WYS> Huh maybe it's just broken in the Control Panel... Typing "use -*;" as a command in the schematic window worked
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[23:00] <Upu> because Eagle is retarded adwiens_KC0WYS
[23:00] <Upu> I like it but the UI is just dire
[23:00] <adwiens_KC0WYS> lol very true
[23:02] <Upu> its handling of libraries (lets not talk about the "search" function) is completely random at times
[23:02] <Upu> I've never worked it out
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[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[23:20] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[00:00] --- Sat Feb 15 2014