highaltitude.log.20140213

[00:07] Nick change: Sytex_AWAY -> Sytex
[00:08] <Sytex> The MASAT-1 (which I mentioned here couple of hours ago) baloon has new freq: 434.950
[00:08] <Sytex> dipole ant / 10mW
[00:09] <Sytex> Launch tomorrow at 13:30 UTC from Budapest
[00:09] <Sytex> Again: no GPS, nothwards direction (maybe Northeast) expected
[00:10] <Sytex> *MASAT-1 Birthday balloon
[00:12] <Sytex> We will very thankful for any reception report: gergely@bartanet.hu
[00:13] Nick change: Sytex -> Sytex_AWAY
[00:13] <Sytex_AWAY> Beacon will be CW
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[01:45] <adwiens_KC0WYS> weird battery http://www.cymbet.com/pdfs/DS-72-02.pdf
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[04:52] <Prometheus> Anyone here have experience with a "screwdriver" antenna?
[04:53] <Prometheus> Basicly a coil with a slide that slides up and down on it to change a 1/4 10m into an all band antenna
[04:57] <Darkside> only with commercial ons
[04:57] <Darkside> ones*
[04:57] <Darkside> i.e. the Codan 9350
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[05:50] <Prometheus> Darkside that looks like a nice antenna
[05:50] <Prometheus> If you used it can you comment on it?
[05:52] <Darkside> i know a few peopel with them
[05:52] <Darkside> they work nicely
[05:52] <Darkside> its a mobil antenna though
[05:52] <Darkside> mobile*
[05:53] <Prometheus> yeah I'm looking for an allband antenna for our mission control
[05:53] <Darkside> uh
[05:53] <Darkside> use something else
[05:53] <Darkside> because they arenpt particularly inefficient
[05:53] <Prometheus> Running a Kenwood TS 430
[05:53] <Darkside> yes, go use a decent antenna
[05:54] <Prometheus> Well we are mobile so limited somewhat on antenna
[05:55] <Prometheus> We have antennas for specific bands but I do want the ablility to be agile in case someone else wants us to monitor a project for them
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[05:55] <Darkside> then for a mobile antenna get either a Codan 9350 or a Codan 3040
[05:55] <Reb-SM3ULC> morrn
[05:55] <Darkside> they are expensive though
[05:56] <Prometheus> Yes they are somewhat pricey
[05:56] <Darkside> and i dunno about using them with a kensood TS-430
[05:56] <Darkside> kenwood*
[05:57] <Darkside> as they are dsigned to work with a Codan NGT
[05:57] <Darkside> i have seen them interfaced to some mobile yaesu and icom rigs
[05:57] <Prometheus> TS-430 can go mobole
[05:57] <Prometheus> *mobile
[05:57] <Darkside> uhh
[05:58] <Darkside> im talking about radios with tuner interfaces
[05:58] <Darkside> as in, to tune these antennas you need to toggle a few IO lines and put out a carrier at a certain power
[05:58] <Darkside> all the people i know that ar eusing them made their own interface boxes to do that
[05:58] <Prometheus> Right there is a tuner option for the TS-430
[05:58] <Darkside> which wont work with this antenna
[05:59] <Prometheus> ahh perhaps you are correct
[05:59] <Darkside> you would have to disabl that tuner to use any kind of autotuning antenna
[05:59] <Darkside> i know i am correct
[05:59] <Darkside> i've ben using mobil HF gear for years
[05:59] <Darkside> been*
[05:59] <Prometheus> Well I am looking at a different antenna
[05:59] <Prometheus> I don't know anything about the autotuners
[06:00] <Darkside> that kind of autotuner antenna is really the only way to get an 'all-HF' antenna working mobile
[06:00] <Prometheus> The screwdrivers I am looking at are manualy tuned
[06:00] <Darkside> yes, which isnt going ot be very useful if you want to change frequency while moving is it
[06:01] <Darkside> in my car i have a whip antenna with resonator attachments
[06:01] <Prometheus> true but we stop and sst-up
[06:01] <Darkside> which i have to take off to change bands
[06:01] <Prometheus> set-up
[06:01] <Darkside> also i'll let you know right now, HF payloads while mobile kind of suck
[06:01] <Darkside> been there, done that
[06:01] <Darkside> you need to be damn well sure your car doesnt radiate noise
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[06:01] <Prometheus> Yeah it's for guy's like you we want to set-up
[06:02] <Darkside> uhh
[06:02] <Prometheus> We drive then stop and set-up
[06:02] <Darkside> i think you're tryin gto do too much
[06:02] <Prometheus> it's an RV
[06:02] <Darkside> we use HF for comms mainly
[06:02] <Darkside> not for payload telemetry
[06:02] <Darkside> imo HF balloon payloads are dangerous
[06:02] <Darkside> way too much wire in the air
[06:03] <Prometheus> I see
[06:03] <Darkside> if you land across a powerline you're likely going to start a fire
[06:03] <Prometheus> yeah that makes sense
[06:04] <Prometheus> still we may want to comm with other hams while on station
[06:04] <Darkside> well my experienc eis mainly with those higher end commercial antnenas
[06:05] <Darkside> as we have people in our team that work at the companis that mak them
[06:05] <Prometheus> I'm sure we are doing way too much for the average HiBal stuff yes
[06:05] <Darkside> well, worked
[06:05] <Darkside> i think you need to concntrate your efforts somwhere
[06:05] <Darkside> else you'll just end up being average at everything, and not 'good' at any one thing
[06:05] <Prometheus> Well balloons are part of our missio
[06:06] <Prometheus> without doubt
[06:06] <Prometheus> Atonomus recovery is part of that mission
[06:06] <Prometheus> so it gets more complicated for sure
[06:07] <Prometheus> We are already very good at balloon missions
[06:08] <Prometheus> Combining it with UAV techknology
[06:08] <Prometheus> is relatively new
[06:08] <Prometheus> and challanging
[06:10] <Prometheus> Mostly because of the distances involved
[06:10] <Prometheus> We have been successful out to 70 miles
[06:11] <Prometheus> We are pushing that out to 150 miles
[06:11] <jphoglund> morning
[06:11] <Darkside> see, we dont bother with autonomous recovery
[06:11] <Darkside> as we just go for a drive
[06:11] <Darkside> much less hassle, and much less paperwork
[06:11] <Prometheus> with the ability to hand of to an ajoining ground station
[06:12] <Prometheus> Yes what you do makes a lot of sense
[06:12] <Prometheus> With this new tech we dont need to chase
[06:12] <Prometheus> at all
[06:12] <Prometheus> the payload returns to us
[06:13] <Darkside> but that limits what you can fly considerably
[06:13] <Darkside> like, you'r elimitd to what can fit inside your UAV
[06:13] <Darkside> we're limited to whatever we can string under a balloon
[06:13] <Prometheus> I enjoy the small payloads and the regular stuff too :)
[06:15] <Prometheus> There's lot's of great tech evolving here
[06:16] <Prometheus> The stuff we do is in the $2000 - $5000 range this is true
[06:16] <Prometheus> but it's not so expensive no one can do it :)
[06:17] <Prometheus> Some may even cost $10,000 but for a small group that's not too difficult
[06:18] <Darkside> uhh
[06:18] <Darkside> thats a lot of money
[06:18] <Prometheus> Others that want to help track can get involved for about $500
[06:18] <Darkside> yeah, this is a lot of money for most people
[06:19] <Prometheus> I agree and regular HiBal stuf is fun!
[06:20] <Prometheus> I'm not efforting to detract form that
[06:20] <Prometheus> from
[06:20] <Prometheus> I want to engourge it in fact
[06:21] <Prometheus> :)
[06:21] <Prometheus> encourage
[06:24] <Prometheus> Real efforts to get into space cost far more
[06:25] <Prometheus> IF a group can put a small payload into space for $10,000 that is cheap
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[06:34] <Upu> B-39
[06:34] <Upu> lol
[06:34] <Upu> my antenna is parked due to winds
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[06:47] <Upu> Calling the Netherlands
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[06:50] <jcoxon> cheeky launch there
[06:50] <Upu> yeah someone wasn't sleeping and got bored
[06:51] <jcoxon> haha
[06:51] <jcoxon> on aprs i assume
[06:51] <Upu> yeah
[06:51] <jcoxon> the NL guys will be sad they weren't alerted
[06:51] <Upu> I didn't know where it was
[06:51] <Upu> hunted round for it for a while
[06:52] <Upu> then reaslised last position was at 4.30am
[06:52] <Upu> so it could be in Russia by now
[06:52] <jcoxon> its updating
[06:52] <Upu> oh
[06:52] <jcoxon> 06:50 was the last point
[06:52] <Upu> aprs killed
[06:53] <jcoxon> oh no its the aprs i assume
[06:53] <Upu> ah yes
[06:53] <Upu> sorry thought you meant someone was uploading directly
[06:53] <Upu> not yet it seems
[06:54] <jcoxon> might be worth a mailing list email...
[06:54] <Upu> aye go on then I'll let you :)
[07:00] <jcoxon> bbl
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[07:33] <junderwood> B-39? How about B-40?
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[07:34] <mfa298> Prometheus: reading some of the scrollback, I'd agree with the things Darkside said, most mobile antennas are generally going to be inefficient.
[07:34] <UpuWork> B-40 up[
[07:34] <UpuWork> it seems
[07:34] <LeoBodnar> morning
[07:34] <Prometheus> Yeah what we need is the bes mobile we can get
[07:34] <arko> nice
[07:34] <daveake> Probably what you need is focus
[07:34] <mfa298> if your mode of operating is to park up somewhere, when operating stuff you might be better off looking at things you can setup quickly.
[07:35] <arko> also gmorning
[07:35] <fsphil> swarm of B's?
[07:35] <UpuWork> attack of the killer B's
[07:35] <daveake> He's making a hive mind
[07:35] <mfa298> e.g. a couple of masts you can put up quickly and string a dipole between.
[07:35] <arko> http://www.maxistentialism.com/bees/oprahbees.gif
[07:35] <mfa298> or even a single mast on the truck which could support an inverted V.
[07:36] <UpuWork> if anyone in .nl is getting decodes on B-39 let me know and I'll kill the APRS importer
[07:37] <LeoBodnar> nothing in the logtail
[07:37] <UpuWork> yeah been watching it
[07:37] <UpuWork> not sleeping Leo ? :)
[07:38] <LeoBodnar> nah, this is better
[07:38] <Prometheus> I was looking at this antenna as well http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/Elmore2.pdf
[07:38] <LeoBodnar> pico launch 25mph wind
[07:39] <UpuWork> approved btw
[07:39] <LeoBodnar> cheers!
[07:39] <Prometheus> You launch another LeoBonnar?
[07:39] <arko> ooo, you might get caught up in a loop
[07:40] <LeoBodnar> ground loop
[07:40] <Prometheus> LeoBodnar
[07:40] <arko> http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/500hPa/orthographic=-5.97,51.80,1549
[07:40] <arko> neat
[07:40] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[07:41] <Prometheus> callsign?
[07:41] <arko> im off to sleep, good luck with with flight Leo
[07:42] <Prometheus> nite arko
[07:43] <LeoBodnar> cheers arko
[07:43] <LeoBodnar> sleep well
[07:43] <mfa298> Prometheus: as a general rule of thumb if an antenna claims to operate on lots of bands and is fairly short compared to what it's wavelength would suggest it may not be very efficient.
[07:44] <Prometheus> daveake that's not very nice ;P
[07:44] <daveake> wossat
[07:44] <Prometheus> Yeah it's imposiable to have your cake and eat it too
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[07:45] <Prometheus> To you it may seem unfocused but that's because you don't see the scope of our program that's all
[07:46] <Prometheus> I'm the nerve center others focus on detais more than I do
[07:46] <daveake> That was exactly my point. The scope is too wide, IMO
[07:46] <DL1SGP1> morning folks
[07:47] <Prometheus> Any true space program is going to have a pretty wide scope
[07:47] <daveake> Assuming this n prize thing is being worked on by others then you'll lose to someone who is aiming for that and that alone.
[07:47] <Prometheus> The N-Prize is a joke imo
[07:47] <daveake> Just my opinion you can do with it what you will
[07:48] <Prometheus> I just used that to start a team
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[07:48] <Prometheus> Well if everyone likes you there's something wrong anyway I suppose
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[07:49] <daveake> Well, I've seen many projects fail because the aims were too broad, with the result being that all the aims get so far but nothing actually ever gets finished
[07:49] <DL1SGP1> Does anyone know if the TX of B-39 has proper power now compared to B-38?
[07:49] <Prometheus> thanks for the positive input mha298
[07:50] <Prometheus> Not the case here daveake it's a lifes work
[07:50] <LeoBodnar> DL1SGP1: it seems reasonably better
[07:51] <DL1SGP1> Thanks LeoBodnar gonna see if I can hear it
[07:52] <Prometheus> I sure am enjoying LeoBodnar's efforts
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[07:56] <Prometheus> It will take an order of magnatue tech to win the N-Prize
[07:56] <Prometheus> like antgravity or something
[07:56] <Prometheus> lol
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[07:57] <DL7AD> morning
[07:57] <Prometheus> GM
[07:59] <DL1SGP1> moin sven
[08:02] <Prometheus> Our aim is just to space on the cheap
[08:02] <Prometheus> orbit is out of the equasion
[08:06] <Prometheus> rockoons and that's it
[08:10] <daveake> So no orbit and no moon?
[08:11] <Prometheus> of course not
[08:11] <Prometheus> lol
[08:11] <daveake> That's progress then
[08:11] <Prometheus> just hype
[08:11] <Prometheus> always has been
[08:11] <daveake> I see
[08:12] <Prometheus> A method for the madness
[08:12] <daveake> I see
[08:12] <Prometheus> Well it kinda backfired
[08:12] <Prometheus> some
[08:13] <Prometheus> But het making progress now
[08:13] <Prometheus> The N-Prize just about ruined me lol
[08:13] <Prometheus> so it was a double-edged sword
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[08:14] <Prometheus> sometimes bad publisty is good as well though
[08:14] <daveake> Not entirely sure how a project with a cap of $1500 can ruin someone
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[08:14] <Prometheus> It can play hell on your reputation
[08:15] <Prometheus> lol
[08:15] <daveake> Ah that
[08:15] <daveake> Well that's something worth protecting
[08:15] <Prometheus> yeah that
[08:15] <Prometheus> sometimes you have to make scrafices
[08:15] <daveake> or words
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[08:16] <gonzo__> Prometheus, I read about someone else doing something similar, see if I can find the link
[08:16] <Prometheus> It did work out but it took longer than it may have another way
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[08:17] <Prometheus> lifes a gamble
[08:17] <gonzo__> Prometheus: www.joshingtalk.com
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[08:18] Action: mfa298 grabs the popcorn
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[08:19] <Prometheus> Hey that looks really cool gonzo
[08:20] <Prometheus> Yeah I think these guys ar CUSF are they not?
[08:21] <gonzo__> nope, I think that guy is out there by himself
[08:21] <UpuWork> he's well out there
[08:21] <gonzo__> right, work time. Laters
[08:21] <Prometheus> yeah these are the guy's we want to help
[08:22] <Prometheus> that's the kind of work we encourage
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[08:22] <Prometheus> What we are developing has cost me personally well over a quarter million
[08:23] <Prometheus> What we learn will go into new open source electronics
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[08:23] <Prometheus> so other's can do space exploration of their own
[08:24] <Prometheus> cheaply and saftly
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[08:24] <Prometheus> That's why all the work on return to launch
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[08:24] <Prometheus> and long range telemetry and video we do
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[08:27] <Prometheus> it's called amatuer space exploration
[08:27] <Prometheus> balloons IMO are a big part of ASX
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[08:28] <Prometheus> you guy's are all aeronauts
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[08:36] <Prometheus> I will try and quell my enthuasium a bit sorry guy's
[08:37] <Prometheus> it takes a lot of it to keep going
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[08:41] <Prometheus> You guy's will find the April launch much more interesting
[08:41] <Prometheus> when you see the tech in action
[08:42] <Prometheus> There is a wealth of good things going on right here
[08:43] <Prometheus> we are compatiable I'm pretty sure
[08:51] <Prometheus> Thanks gonzo I sent Josh a message
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[08:55] <Prometheus> There certianly is nothing special about me personally it the mission that's special I'm just a guy on a mission
[08:56] <number10> interesting prog on radio 4 next tuesday http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03vdx7m
[09:00] <Prometheus> "the scalar boson and remains embarrassed that it is named after only him" this man is indeed intelligent most accurite statement I've ever heard from a scientist
[09:01] <Prometheus> awesome
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[09:02] <DL7AD> morning again ;)
[09:03] <Prometheus> the good ones know they are just standing on the sholders of the ones that came before them
[09:03] <Prometheus> GM again
[09:03] <Prometheus> Ok I'm out for the day
[09:03] <DL7AD> bye Prometheus
[09:04] <Prometheus> good luck aeronauts
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[09:08] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: ping
[09:12] <Turan> Hello, I have a question: How can I make my computer and Dl-Flidigi to play the noise created by the NTX2B back?
[09:15] <daveake> Yeah you can save the audio through the menu
[09:15] <daveake> and reload after
[09:15] <DL7AD> Turan: morning. you're meaning RTTY, the modulation type...? thats called the mode. you can set it in the menu - op mode - rtty - rtty hab 50
[09:17] <Turan> No, I mean the sound created by the NTX2B. I can hear it from the yupiteru and see it by Dl-Fldigi but my soundcart doesnt play it back.
[09:18] <daveake> Oh you just want to hear it as it happens, through the PC speakers?
[09:18] <daveake> Windows or Linux?
[09:18] <Turan> yes yes
[09:18] <Turan> windows
[09:18] <daveake> Have a look in control panel
[09:19] <daveake> Often for the audio "recording" (line in) device you can tick a box "monitor this channel" or something
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[09:21] <Turan> I couldnt find 'recording'
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[09:23] <daveake> On W7 it's control panel --> search for "sound" --> sound card settings
[09:23] <daveake> then the Recording tab
[09:24] <fsphil> was quite surprised to find out windows doesn't support recording the output anymore
[09:24] <fsphil> bit of a step back
[09:24] <daveake> then select the Line In or whatever it's called, then Properties, then the Listen tab thenc heck "Listen to this device"
[09:24] <daveake> You're surprised that MS take steps backward?
[09:25] <Turan> No ;)
[09:25] <fsphil> a little. I only recently upgraded from xp :)
[09:25] <daveake> ah
[09:26] <gonzo__> I've only just upgraded to xp!
[09:27] <number10> at least you wont have any issues downloading lots of updates gonzo__
[09:27] <number10> they are soon to stop supporting it
[09:27] <gonzo__> that's about normal for me.
[09:28] <Turan> So, should I install Linux?
[09:28] <gonzo__> depends what you want it for
[09:28] <Turan> HABing and Programming
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[09:29] <gonzo__> I've only used it for home server applications. So I don't do the gui stuff on it
[09:30] <Turan> I found the sound card settings on Dl-Fldigi what should I do next?
[09:30] <jededu> Have you checked the soundcard settings in fldigi
[09:30] <jededu> lol
[09:30] <jededu> playback
[09:31] <jededu> I just selected my audio card
[09:32] <Turan> There are three options for me. I tried all but there is no sound
[09:33] <fsphil> so you can hear the signal on the radio
[09:33] <Turan> no
[09:33] <Turan> I have to decode it
[09:33] <fsphil> if you unplug the audio cable can you hear it?
[09:34] <fsphil> unplug from the radio*
[09:34] <daveake> AIU: The radio works. dl-fldigi decodes it. He simply wants to be able to hear the sound at the same time.
[09:34] <daveake> "I can hear it from the yupiteru and see it by Dl-Fldigi but my soundcart doesnt play it back."
[09:34] <Turan> thanks
[09:34] <fsphil> so you can hear it on the radio?
[09:34] <Prometheus> you need to choose Stereo mix if you have it or use cable software
[09:35] <daveake> No, if it's W7 he simply needs the "listen to this channel" option checked
[09:35] <Prometheus> steroe mix might be an option for you in control pannel depending on you sound hardware
[09:35] <daveake> it might
[09:37] <Prometheus> uh hu ok sorry back out
[09:37] <Turan> do I have to install a virtuell cable or something else
[09:37] <daveake> First things first. What version of Windows?
[09:38] <Turan> 7
[09:38] <jededu> Is the playback set to speakers in the soundcard settings you dont have it set to HDMI or some other output?
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[09:39] <daveake> OK so did you find the "listen to this device" option for your line in device?
[09:39] <Turan> no, there is no option like this
[09:39] <daveake> if so check that then make sure the playback device is for your speakers
[09:40] <daveake> oh, new one on me then
[09:41] <fsphil> you might need to click on "Line In" and press "Set Default"
[09:42] <Turan> couldt find
[09:44] <DL1SGP1> b-39 seems to have popped :)
[09:44] <Turan> Thanks to everybody but it didnt worked. I try it after school today
[09:45] <daveake> OK, we'll take you thru 1 step at a time
[09:45] <daveake> I think you're missing a step - these options should be there
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[09:45] <LeoBodnar> yes, B-39 has split
[09:45] <fsphil> it's an ex-B
[09:47] <daveake> Has-B-een
[09:47] <LeoBodnar> pining for the fjords
[09:48] <daveake> parroty error
[09:48] <fsphil> I wonder what has B-fallen it
[09:49] <daveake> Let it B
[09:53] <cm13g09> Split in two LeoBodnar? If so.... is it a Semi-B?
[09:54] <LeoBodnar> B-flat
[09:55] <cm13g09> Needs a B-sharp to pop it though ;)
[09:57] <gonzo__> Could you call it Eric?
[09:57] <gonzo__> Eric the half a B ?
[09:59] <mfa298> only if he's a bumble bee so he can have a flight.
[09:59] Hoovlieger (57d32529@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.211.37.41) joined #highaltitude.
[10:02] <Sytex_AWAY> http://www.ready.noaa.gov/hypubout/156755_trj001.gif
[10:02] <Sytex_AWAY> predict for masat-1 birthday balloon
[10:03] <cm13g09> mfa298: hehehe
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[10:03] <cm13g09> gonzo__: I was trying to set that one up ;)
[10:04] <cm13g09> Somebody send up a half-size B-flavoured payload and have it ID as ERIC....
[10:04] <cm13g09> please P
[10:04] <cm13g09> * :P
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[10:10] <UpuWork> well I'd say B-39 is on land
[10:10] <UpuWork> just
[10:10] <UpuWork> very just
[10:11] <LeoBodnar> near Keil. Maybe they can look at the code.
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[10:21] <gurgalof> sweet, more balloons!
[10:22] <LeoBodnar> M0BPQ-3 is screwing things up again
[10:22] <UpuWork> ?
[10:22] <UpuWork> how do you mean LeoBodnar ?
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> http://aprs.fi/?c=raw&call=M0XER-10 he is sending packets with 1 hour delay
[10:23] <LeoBodnar> which makes aprs.fi go nuts
[10:23] <UpuWork> thats odd
[10:23] <UpuWork> clock out ?
[10:24] <UpuWork> mail him ?
[10:24] <gurgalof> daylight savings problem maybe
[10:24] <UpuWork> I'll mail him
[10:25] <fsphil> I can't think of how it would delay the upload
[10:25] <fsphil> even if the local clock was wrong
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> i have sent him an APRS message and there were like 2000 packets broadcast all over Europe because somehow the network thinks that he is near the balloon (since he is sending the packets now)
[10:26] <UpuWork> what issue is it causing ?
[10:26] <fsphil> hah
[10:26] <LeoBodnar> no/wrong telemetry
[10:27] <UpuWork> mailed him
[10:28] <LeoBodnar> cheers
[10:28] <UpuWork> I'll sell him a GPS synd NTP server :)
[10:28] <daveake> :)
[10:29] <LeoBodnar> I think he is running Pi https://twitter.com/M0BPQ/status/311771953314799616
[10:30] <UpuWork> omg
[10:30] <UpuWork> thats amazing
[10:30] <gurgalof> cyberstalking
[10:30] <UpuWork> I have a proper TNC in the cupboard behind me
[10:32] Action: cm13g09 growls loudly.... more VPS problems (work not mine!)
[10:38] <gonzo__> I'm supprised that there is not more 9600bd packet around
[10:38] <LeoBodnar> or 100kbps packet
[10:38] <LeoBodnar> it's XXI century
[10:38] <fsphil> yea no reason it couldn't go much much faster
[10:39] <gonzo__> the dstar dd sort of fills that gap
[10:39] <gonzo__> if you can afford the radios
[10:39] <gonzo__> believe the us version of raynet use them for emergency comms
[10:39] <gonzo__> but they get funded to buy shiny kit and vehicles
[10:40] <fsphil> I'm kinda hoping dstar disappears
[10:40] <gonzo__> why's that?
[10:41] <fsphil> there shouldn't be proprietary systems running on amateur radio bands
[10:41] <gonzo__> 9600 will just go through an fm bandwidth and lots of radios have a dedicated dics/mod port these days
[10:42] <gonzo__> the dstar is just the transpiort layer, you can send any voice data over it
[10:42] <fsphil> SDR's can easily handle it too
[10:42] <craag> I agree, I've had a go with a rig and it's a neat system, but the implementation is against everything I like about amateur radio.
[10:42] <craag> gonzo__: d-star is the whole system
[10:42] <gonzo__> I expect it will move to an open source codec eventually
[10:42] <gonzo__> but for an £11 chip, I'll happily run the ambe for now
[10:42] <craag> Codec2 looks very hopeful
[10:43] <gonzo__> it's cheaper than having to box up a pi for portable
[10:43] <fsphil> cheap processors are fast enough to do codecs in real time
[10:43] <fsphil> so things like codec2 or opus could be done without dedicated hardware
[10:44] <gonzo__> the network just pushes data about, it's not decoded till it gets to the rx. But there are some bodges in the system that assume the ambe in the voice segment
[10:44] <fsphil> proprietary *and* badly written? :)
[10:45] <craag> fsphil: Do you ever get one without the other?
[10:45] <craag> :P
[10:45] <gonzo__> the advantage of an open source codec/sw solution is that mor people can play with it for free, so it becomes popular
[10:46] <gonzo__> the icom comercial dv repeaters are not much better
[10:46] <fsphil> it also means it can be written from scratch, or even sold without fear of a lawsuit
[10:46] <gonzo__> they feel like a students summer project]
[10:46] <craag> gonzo__: And the codec can be improved. AMBE isn't that amazing compared to recent tech.
[10:46] <gonzo__> the dv spec is over 10 yrs old, so ambe made sense then
[10:47] <gonzo__> the latest move seem to be using the motorola digital spec. That is (I believe) open
[10:49] <gonzo__> but no-one has made a free sw solution for it yet, so the grumpy old men are moaning that they have to go and buy pmr radios
[10:49] <gonzo__> (the same moaners who will go and buy a £5000 yaesu)
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[11:01] <gurgalof> I had a dream this night, that I was visiting you guys in UK to launch my balloon :)
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[11:04] <SpeedEvil> The motorola spec is very not open
[11:05] <gonzo__> SpeedEvil, No? I must be mixing it up with summut else
[11:07] <gonzo__> but whatever modes the re[peater groups choose, they are damned
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[11:16] <gurgalof> I'll hope I receive something from B-40 later
[11:16] <db_g6gzh> LeoBodnar: whilst M0BPQ-3 may be doing something odd I know for certain that MB7UN delays packets
[11:17] <db_g6gzh> this bug: http://blog.aprs.fi/2011/03/kantronics-kpc3-considered-harmful.html
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[11:20] <db_g6gzh> I use a Pi with TNC-Pi for my igate so there's nothing inherently wrong with that combination
[11:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> fsphil, Fully agree the sooner the old protocol is dropped the better
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[11:28] <gonzo__> needs a robust transport layer, that you can push any type of voice coding over. the dstar was 4800bd gmsk, which was not bad. Think the header blocks were fec'ed
[11:28] <gonzo__> ?
[11:29] <LeoBodnar> db_g6gzh: this was almost an hour delay!
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[11:31] <db_g6gzh> LeoBodnar: The MB7UN problem is activity dependent. It basically creates a FIFO, so receiving a new packet kicks out one which has been buffered for a while and low activity could create long delays.
[11:32] <db_g6gzh> It's possible that there might also be an issue at M0BPQ-3 but those particular ones had been through MB7UN
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[11:34] <db_g6gzh> I've seen the MB7UN problem while driving in that area.
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[11:35] <LeoBodnar> this happened exactly the same way for the last three balloons
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[11:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> His email address is on QRZ com M0ADH is the operator
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[11:56] <www-sm3ulc> LeoBodnar: any trajectory prediction for b40?
[11:59] <DL7AD> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub/arlTraj.swf?client=gme-noaa&channel=OAR.ARL.HQ.HYSPLIT&dir=/hypubout/HYSPLITtraj_160077&data=/hysplit_metadata&ext=html
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[12:02] <gurgalof> sweet, the trajectory prediction is right on top of me
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[12:13] <DL7AD> where are you living gurgalof?
[12:13] <gurgalof> Gothenburg, Sweden
[12:16] <DL7AD> are you able to receive it gurgalof?
[12:16] <daveake> I wonder which is the worst thing about launching in Sweden - the cost of permission, or the fact that it's going to land in a tree
[12:16] <gurgalof> not now
[12:17] <gurgalof> daveake: :D
[12:17] <daveake> They have too pay €400 or something like that
[12:18] <daveake> cheaper to fly to the UK and launch :p
[12:18] <gurgalof> the permission cost for launching any balloon with a payload in Sweden is 4200SEK
[12:18] <daveake> €477
[12:18] <daveake> ouch
[12:18] <craag> 391 pounds..
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[12:19] <craag> Yeah, come to the uk instead. You'll get bacon too!
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[12:19] <ahajhajhajh> hi anyone here>
[12:19] <gurgalof> daveake: just like my dream tonight, fly to you guys and launch it in the UK
[12:19] <daveake> Stop off in Denmark on the way and bring it to us
[12:19] <DL7AD> :D
[12:19] <ahajhajhajh> anyone know a company or indiviudal willing to assist with a balloon launch
[12:20] <daveake> whereabouts?
[12:20] <gurgalof> a tour over the day to Denmark is 100SEK for 1 person here
[12:20] <ahajhajhajh> as near to london as possible, but williing to travel
[12:20] <ahajhajhajh> preferably a pro compnay that can give us a quote though
[12:20] <craag> ahajhajhajh: Send an email with some details to the mailing list, there's a few people who do that kidn of thing.
[12:21] <craag> *kind
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[12:21] <daveake> blimey that was quick
[12:21] <daveake> didn't even get to PM him :p
[12:22] <fsphil> hah
[12:25] <gonzo__> some people are imn such a rush
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[12:26] <craag> Sorry daveake, didn't mean to send him away!
[12:26] <daveake> ha!
[12:26] <daveake> I suspect it's someone who contacted me yesterday
[12:26] <daveake> Probably looking for options in expectation of an outlandish quote from me :p
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[12:36] <DL7AD> LUNCH! :P
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[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> aadamson1`2222222222222222222222222222-+
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[12:45] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> oOPS must turn off kbd when cleaning!
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[13:10] <UpuWork> Enable ARPS ?
[13:10] <UpuWork> APRS even ?
[13:11] <pws> B-39: just back from top of the lighthouse right on predicted path. Nope at 434.5 nor visual.
[13:22] <UpuWork> reenabled the importer
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[13:22] <UpuWork> brb
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[13:26] <pws> Leo: B-39, just back from top of the lighthouse right on predicted path. Nope at 434.5 nor visual 1 hour after last reported contact. pws/Kiel
[13:27] <LeoBodnar> oh, thank you for checking! pws!
[13:27] <LeoBodnar> it has disappeared then
[13:27] <LeoBodnar> maybe drowned?
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[13:29] <pws> Think so. Observed some navy ships searching for anything...
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[13:33] <UpuWork> ping craag
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[13:37] <balloonyolo> can you buy a cutdown device which can be controlled from the ground?
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[13:37] <balloonyolo> So you can cut the balloon at a chosen time
[13:38] <ak4rp2> guys, a balloon has just been released from Budapest, Hungary
[13:38] <ak4rp2> 434.950 cw only, no gps
[13:39] <ak4rp2> traveling northward
[13:39] <ak4rp2> any reports welcomed
[13:39] <x-f> that's the Masat birthday balloon?
[13:39] <gonzo__> how is it being tracked?
[13:39] <ak4rp2> ha7wen.hu/beacon
[13:40] <gonzo__> just rough DFing?
[13:40] <ak4rp2> it is
[13:40] <ak4rp2> yep, no gps in a 1.5 gram tracker :-)
[13:40] <x-f> webpage says 433.92 MHz?
[13:40] <ak4rp2> it is wrong
[13:41] <ak4rp2> sorry
[13:41] <ak4rp2> he didnt update the page
[13:41] <fsphil> hmmm.. Jade Rabbit not so dead after all
[13:41] <fsphil> seems it's sending signals again
[13:41] <ak4rp2> transmits in the ham band, callsign ha5mrc
[13:42] <craag> Only 3 hour battery life?
[13:43] <Sytex_AWAY> masat1 birthday balloon started
[13:43] <ak4rp2> or more :-)
[13:43] <Sytex_AWAY> 434.950
[13:43] <Sytex_AWAY> please email if received
[13:43] <ak4rp2> the battery is also slightly different now
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[13:44] <keydash> hello
[13:44] <Sytex_AWAY> gergely@bartanet.hu
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[14:01] <gonzo__> balloonyolo, there is no off the shelf cutdown unit. But they should be easy to make. The complication is how you control/command it
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[14:03] <gonzo__> it needs a radio receiver, with some data decoding. Also you need the ground station transmitter and encoding.
[14:04] <gonzo__> and the transmitter will probably need licencing (depending on your countries laws)
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[14:17] <Darkside> th transmitter will definitly need licensing
[14:17] <Darkside> as ISM power limits wont be decodable on the payload
[14:17] <Darkside> at least, thats what i've found
[14:18] <Laurenceb> B-40 making progress
[14:18] <Darkside> what
[14:18] <Darkside> h just launched B39 this morning
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[14:18] <daveake> Yes but this is Leo ...
[14:18] <UpuWork> haha
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[14:19] <keydash> mars symbol on nmea sentences, 2 at the end, is correct?
[14:19] <la3eq> B-40 nvery weak here
[14:20] <UpuWork> let me know if it goes green and I'll kill the APRS
[14:20] <ak4rp> the Masat balloon is still working fine, must be somewhere over Slovakia by now. 434.950 CW. Reports appreciated, here or by email.
[14:25] <G8APZ> la3eq looks like that's going to be the best it gets for you!
[14:30] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@83.93.227.209) joined #highaltitude.
[14:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi
[14:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Wow B-40 is really weak
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[14:31] <la3eq> quiet now for a while Briam
[14:31] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i got weak beebs
[14:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> well not anymore
[14:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gone
[14:32] <la3eq> soon it will be in my best direction (towards OZ7IGY/B) over seawater
[14:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> back again, can see it on the waterfall but not by ears
[14:33] <la3eq> my vfo is on 434.500.000. see no biips
[14:34] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 434.500 @1760Hz here
[14:34] <la3eq> green devode now
[14:34] <la3eq> $$B-40,198,143356,140213,56.4265,9.2808,8265,11,-14,1.41*18BD
[14:34] <OZ1SKY_Brian> really
[14:35] <la3eq> 280Hz high in frequency
[14:35] <la3eq> elevation only 0,3 degrees....but sea path now
[14:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> antenne must have a VERY flat radiation pattern
[14:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i can hardly hear it
[14:36] <la3eq> X-300 vertical
[14:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no i mean B-40
[14:36] <la3eq> PGA-103 preamp in schak
[14:36] <la3eq> oh yes....B-40 yes
[14:37] <Laurenceb> how long should B-40 last?
[14:38] <OZ1SKY_Brian> until the batt runs out :-) Its anyones guess
[14:38] <LeoBodnar> a night at least
[14:38] <Laurenceb> AAA or AA?
[14:39] <la3eq> bad decode this time : $$B-40,200,143:29,140213,56.4793,9.393,822P,10,-16,1.4*AAC8
[14:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> la3eq do you hear a signal with dopplar on?
[14:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> on and off?
[14:40] <la3eq> i hear the signal....what doppler do you meam on/off?
[14:40] <LeoBodnar> AAA
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[14:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> la3eq i got a signal going on and off with dopplar on it, but i gess its local qrm then
[14:41] <la3eq> no doppler on this signal...weak, but steady and stable....and 280Hz high in QRG
[14:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> WOW switched to the horizontal beam now, from nothing to S7
[14:44] <la3eq> that was strange!!!
[14:44] <la3eq> i do not have horisontal beam up at the oment....to bad..
[14:45] <craag> UpuWork: pong
[14:45] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: do you have a webpage yet?
[14:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah well for a short periode, now its back down again
[14:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> S0
[14:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> S3
[14:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok comming back
[14:46] <craag> OZ1SKY_Brian: Sounds like you're having fun with nulls
[14:46] <OZ1SKY_Brian> craag im trying to fight them back :-)
[14:47] <db_g6gzh> cast them into a void
[14:47] <craag> With the balloon overhead a simple 1/4 wave or dipole can outperform higher gain stuff, as it's less directive.
[14:47] <craag> lol db_g6gzh
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72960000/jpg/_72960884_b3e29179-6d6e-408e-910e-acf491d73ea3.jpg - anyone land near hear - it's OK - you can admit it
[14:48] <SpeedEvil> here
[14:49] <craag> SpeedEvil: Where is that?
[14:50] <la3eq> did the ballon hit that mast along its way? ;=)
[14:50] <la3eq> no trace of B-40 anymore here..
[14:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Good signal again on H-pol
[14:52] <OZ1SKY_Brian> S6
[14:52] <DL1SGP1> Hej Brian, welcome home
[14:52] <db_g6gzh> How did that pylon not reach the ground? I'm impressed if it's the tension in the cables holding it.
[14:52] <SpeedEvil> it is
[14:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> DL1SGP1 thanks
[14:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> $$B-40,206,145208,140213,56.6383,9.7347,8239,11,-16,1.4*2FC2
[14:53] <DL1SGP1> looks good :)
[14:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Yes all green now
[14:54] <SpeedEvil> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-26169252
[14:55] <SpeedEvil> This electricity pylon near to Houghton le Spring, which sits between Durham and Sunderland, was damaged by the severe overnight winds.
[14:55] <Turan> do somebody know a easier way to programm the ntx2b with an arduino?
[14:56] <craag> Turan: Easier than on the ukhas wiki?
[14:56] <Turan> yes
[14:56] <craag> No, that's the easiest!
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> Get someone else to do it?
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> ^pay
[14:57] <craag> heh
[14:58] <craag> Turan: Which bit are you struggling with?
[14:58] <Turan> i really dont understand the loop-part (the most important part)
[15:00] <craag> Ok, so you've got the string "RTTY TEST BEACON" stored in the variable called datastring
[15:00] <Turan> yea
[15:00] <craag> the next line then calculates a checksum (maths that allows us to check for corruption)
[15:00] <craag> the 'strcat(' line then puts that on the end of datastring
[15:01] <Turan> ok
[15:01] <craag> So in datastring you get "RTTY TEST BEACON*AEFE" where AEFE is the checksum
[15:02] <craag> Then rtty_txstring is given datastring, and goes through it one character at a time, transmitting the 1s and 0s, as 5V and 0V to the ntx2b.
[15:02] <Turan> but why is a pointer used
[15:02] <craag> where?
[15:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar good copy of B-40 on a horisontal antenna, on vertical its very weak
[15:03] <craag> (char * string) in rtty_txstring?
[15:03] <Turan> yes
[15:04] <craag> because on the arduino, strings are stored as a pointer to the first character
[15:04] <craag> so you have [R][T][T][Y][\0]
[15:04] <Turan> ok
[15:04] <craag> The pointer points to [R]
[15:05] <craag> and the arduino will then read until it gets to a [\0]
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[15:05] <craag> Which tells it thats the end of the string
[15:05] <Turan> ok, lets go on
[15:06] <craag> it seems a little strange, but is the most efficient way to do strings on a tiny processor like an arduino.
[15:06] <craag> sure
[15:06] <G8APZ> craag it always pays to add useful comment on any code or code snippets. Exactly along the lines of your comments here!
[15:06] <adamgreig> not much point adding comments about how C handles strings though
[15:07] <G8APZ> Sometimes looking at old code it's hard to work out what's what!
[15:07] <G8APZ> not HOW, but WHAT the code is doing
[15:07] <craag> Yes that wiki code could do with some comments
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[15:10] <Turan> could somebody explain me this on the wiki: uint16_t gps_CRC16_checksum (char *string)
[15:10] <craag> Oh, it does have some comments
[15:10] <craag> </unfortunate irc window placement>
[15:10] <Turan> ok
[15:10] <craag> Turan: Ok, so that takes the string
[15:11] <craag> Does some maths on the characters
[15:11] <craag> And returns a number
[15:11] <craag> That number is then sent as the four hexadecimal digits at the end of the string
[15:12] <craag> eg. 3EC5
[15:12] <craag> The idea is that the receiver (dl-fldigi) then does the same calculation
[15:12] <craag> and compares the number it got with the one that was sent
[15:13] <craag> If the numbers are different, the string must be different and so the data is incorrect and so should be ignored.
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[15:13] <LeoBodnar> OZ1SKY_Brian: Can't explain why. It uses 2m band vertical dipole for 70cm TX
[15:13] <LeoBodnar> maybe balloon itself alters the polarisation
[15:14] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar yeah i dont know, the last few flights been pretty weak on 70cm
[15:15] <LeoBodnar> yeah I have noticed too
[15:15] <craag> Turan: The 'some maths' bit you shouldn't worry about, it's an algorithm designed by clever people to produce different numbers even if something very small is different in the input string.
[15:16] <LeoBodnar> What's the weather like, Brian?
[15:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Is it a 1/4wave for 2m?
[15:16] <LeoBodnar> yes
[15:16] <LeoBodnar> 51cm radials
[15:16] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Pretty clear and sunny
[15:16] <LeoBodnar> cool
[15:16] <Turan> craag I thank you very much.
[15:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes 51cm is somewhat near a 5/8wave for 70cm and thats a flat gain antenna
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[15:17] <craag> Turan: No problem :) It can all be a bit confusing at first.
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[15:21] <sa6bss> OZ1SKY_Brian: stil 434,500 @1760?
[15:22] <sa6bss> at work working remote with no audio
[15:22] <sa6bss> just visual
[15:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sa6bss yes
[15:22] <sa6bss> tnx
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[15:26] <craag> OZ1SKY_Brian: A 2m 1/4 wave is a 3/4 wave on 70cm. Which in my experience has about 50 ohm impedance, but a 45 degree gain lobe.
[15:27] <craag> I use one for chasing on the car, it's 55 ohms on the VNA, can't hit any 70cm repeaters on the horizon, but works better than a 1/4 wave for balloons overhead.
[15:27] <craag> That's my experience, but B-40 does seem to be different.
[15:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> craagq ok i just dont seem to readiate much power down
[15:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i=it
[15:29] <craag> yeah.. strange.
[15:29] <craag> You might do better with your horizontal yagi once it's gone away from you a bit.
[15:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> craag horizontal is whats working best right now
[15:30] <craag> :)
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[15:30] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok im out of the death zone now (5deg) maybe it gets better :-)
[15:31] <craag> lol 'death zone'
[15:32] <craag> I can only hear most balloons once I'm inside the green circle. Too far down the hill!
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> Most of my house is at 5C. :/
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[15:33] <OZ1SKY_Brian> craag some of it might also be my vertical gp, its a stacked comet gp-9, so its poor at high angels
[15:33] <craag> OZ1SKY_Brian: Oh yes, becomes very useful at the low angles though! :D
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[15:35] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sa6bss what are you doing at work, get home and track, allihop! :-)
[15:37] <DL1SGP1> lol
[15:38] <sa6bss> yeah, would be nice but have to stay for another 2 hours or so
[15:38] <sa6bss> well will bw at home in to hours anyway
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[15:39] <sa6bss> it have cleard here ,nice wether even the sun come through this afternoon
[15:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sa6bss ok :-) we need sa6bmf to show up
[15:39] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its going right over his head
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[15:40] <sa6bss> yeah, he have to hurry home!!
[15:41] <sa6bss> back to work, break is over
[15:42] <Laurenceb> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/165204_trj001.gif
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[15:43] <OZ1SKY_Brian> If the batt lasts, Leo might win it
[15:45] <cm13g09> craag: heating bust again?
[15:47] <craag> cm13g09: No, rather warm actually: http://www.ukhas.net/nodeInfo?id=13
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[15:50] Action: cm13g09 misread things :P
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[15:52] <gurgalof> OZ1SKY_Brian: I just set up my antenna in the window...
[15:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gurgalof Hi, and where are you located?
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[15:53] <gurgalof> I'm sa6bmf
[15:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ahh ok :-)
[15:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> tjana
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[15:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> btw do you know what your hostname means in danish?
[15:54] <gurgalof> same thing as in Swedish I suppose?
[15:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> might be :-)
[15:55] <Reb-SM3ULC> Evening!
[15:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi reb
[15:57] <gurgalof> I saw some signals momentarily, but not anymore
[15:57] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Reb-SM3ULC B-40 is comming your way http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/165204_trj001.gif
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[15:59] <Reb-SM3ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: it seems it might.. :)
[16:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> last one ended up in norway...
[16:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> and B-39 ended up in Kiel
[16:02] <Reb-SM3ULC> firing up stuff...
[16:02] <UpuWork> did someone re-enable the APRS ?
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[16:03] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Upu yes i gess so
[16:04] <UpuWork> uh sorry I killed the wrong one
[16:05] <UpuWork> normal telemetry should take preference
[16:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> UpuWork still dont think it will as the aprs is faster than the contestia
[16:06] <Reb-SM3ULC> ok, a bit rusty by now... what cycle is it sending on?
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[16:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> the same packet is sent on aprs before its sent on contestia
[16:06] <OZ1SKY_Brian> so the tracker disregard the contestia, because its not newer than the aprs packet
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[16:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Reb-SM3ULC beeps every sek and contestia 8/1000 every 5min
[16:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ARPS 144.800 every 2.5 min
[16:10] <gurgalof> I don't even get the beeps
[16:10] <gurgalof> dipole in a window on the bottom floor isn't the best
[16:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> energy windows?
[16:11] <Reb-SM3ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: tack, two sdr# running
[16:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Reb-SM3ULC 434.500 @2040 right now
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[16:12] <Reb-SM3ULC> heck
[16:12] <Reb-SM3ULC> check
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[16:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> drifting down, 1856Hz now
[16:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> as its entering the twilight zone
[16:16] <Laurenceb> yeah
[16:16] <Laurenceb> you can see it descending a little
[16:16] <Laurenceb> not a bad shift for ~20C temperature change
[16:17] <Laurenceb> ~0.4ppm
[16:18] Action: Reb-SM3ULC multitasking. Making dinner to 1.5 & 5.5 y old and trying to track little balloon...
[16:18] <gurgalof> i hear the 1 sec beeps
[16:18] <gurgalof> very very down in the noise
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[16:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> <<2014-02-13T16:15Z Contestia @ 4345000000+1372>>
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[16:23] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[16:24] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Reb-SM3ULC seems to work best on horisontal here
[16:24] <Reb-SM3ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: polari?
[16:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes
[16:25] <Reb-SM3ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: darn, both mine are vertical
[16:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> well if you have 2 stacked, that should do it
[16:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> or do you mean gp/dipoles?
[16:26] <Reb-SM3ULC> i have a singel dipol and also a 7 el beam
[16:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ok the 7elem should pick it up
[16:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but its pretty weak on vertical here
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[16:27] <Zaarin> any welders here?
[16:28] <OZ1SKY_Brian> <<2014-02-13T16:24Z Contestia @ 434498000+1384>>
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[16:30] <gonzo__> odd chan to ask about welding?
[16:30] <Zaarin> what's best chan to ask?
[16:31] <gurgalof> sorry guys, but I don't have time to try receiving anymore
[16:31] <gonzo__> no idea, but this is high altutude ballooning
[16:32] <gurgalof> i hear the 1 sec beep, but everytime a packet comes trough, someone keys up a transmitter nearby
[16:32] <gonzo__> but you could ask anyway, never know!
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[16:33] <nats`> Zaarin don't ask to ask just ask :)
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[16:33] <nats`> it's more efficient if someone knows the answer he'll answer
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[16:45] <Reb-SM3ULC> welding is quite a wide term...
[16:49] <Reb-SM3ULC> OZ1SKY_Brian: how is the signal for you? weak?
[16:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah pretty weak, not sure i can hold it much longer. <<2014-02-13T16:47Z Contestia @ 434497000+1071>>
[16:52] <Reb-SM3ULC> ok, would have been nice with som dead reckoning along the prediected path
[16:53] <gurgalof> someone talks NBFM on 434.510
[16:53] <gurgalof> so I'm not getting any decodes
[16:58] <gurgalof> sorry I couldn't be uesful, had too little free time today
[16:58] <OZ1SKY_Brian> lets hope sa6bss gets home soon then
[16:59] <DL1SGP1> gurgalof: any attempt in decoding is useful, do not feel sorry your help is appreciated
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[16:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Im done here, its too weak now, last freq <<2014-02-13T16:47Z Contestia @ 434497000+1071>>
[17:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> wrong
[17:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> <2014-02-13T16:56Z Contestia @ 434497000+1404>
[17:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> sa6bss is tracking :-)
[17:01] <DL1SGP1> yay
[17:02] <gurgalof> i hear the beeps at least
[17:02] <gurgalof> but no sucessful ecode
[17:02] <sa6bss> yep. closing up the styore going home
[17:03] <sa6bss> can se the beeps on the waterfall 434.497500@1600
[17:03] <gurgalof> unplugging now, have to go back to what I did before
[17:04] <sa6bss> thats strong!! :)
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[17:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> off to dinner, later everyone
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[17:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> sa6bss: cool
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[17:18] <LeoBodnar> Nice, B-40 flew right over SA6BSS
[17:19] <LeoBodnar> with accuracy of a few feet
[17:19] <Reb-SM3ULC> hehe
[17:20] <adamgreig> hah. the only receiver in hundreds of miles and it goes right over
[17:21] <Reb-SM3ULC> magnet
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[17:55] <OH7HJ-1> Ratijopallo B-40 lähestymässä Suomea, nyt Ruotsin päällä. http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[17:55] <OH7HJ-1> Sri, meant to another thread...
[17:56] <Reb-SM3ULC> :)
[17:56] <OH7HJ-1> ... alarming hams thru 2m /telnet packet radio network
[17:56] <Reb-SM3ULC> seems to be a weak one
[17:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> still no beeps here
[17:57] <OH7HJ-1> You copy it already..?
[17:57] <es5nhc> OH7HJ-1, oh wait, you still have packet telnet there?
[17:58] <OH7HJ-1> Yep, we have rebuilt it an the last few years, after the few comms breaking storms.
[17:59] <es5nhc> Aha... so as a some sort of backup network ;)
[17:59] <Reb-SM3ULC> OH7HJ-1: no, not a sign
[18:00] <sa6bss> its 434,499@1000
[18:00] <OH7HJ-1> Yes, it is actually called VARVE, short for our words meaning 'backup network'.
[18:01] <OH7HJ-1> You can check it online: http://oh5rm.no-ip.org:8080/Node/Nodes.html
[18:01] <es5nhc> Ah, okay
[18:02] <es5nhc> Cool. We here have a few folks doing APRS ATM
[18:03] <OH7HJ-1> That is one of our backup/emergency ham home station packet gateway nodes. Runs on tiny Raspberry with LinBPQ software, and battery backup.
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[18:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> OH7HJ-1: heard taboy you have "virve" in finland as backup-net for rescue etc+
[18:04] <es5nhc> Google searches also come up with VIRVE. So is VARVE a pun on the VIRVE name?
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[18:05] <OH7HJ-1> We have built large radius 2m and 6m 1k2 nodes, to cover possible strorm damage area comms.
[18:05] <Reb-SM3ULC> OH7HJ-1: actually today started to work on the swedish version.. rakel
[18:06] <OH7HJ-1> VIRVE is the official phone network. Our VARVE is for text messages thru ham packet.
[18:06] <es5nhc> But the name was an inspiration, right? ;)
[18:06] <OH7HJ-1> And yes, it was selected as similar name :)
[18:07] <OH7HJ-1> Reb, what kind the rakel is?
[18:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> OH7HJ-1: phone and text etc backup network
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[18:10] <OH7HJ-1> For official use only? Novel or based on usual commercial tech?
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[18:11] <Reb-SM3ULC> OH7HJ-1: only for government, rescue etc. novel system as far as i know, but compaltible with some other eu-systems
[18:12] <es5nhc> OH7HJ-1, so your network in Finland also has general ham radio alerts, given you were just sending a heads-up about the balloon?
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[18:13] <OH7HJ-1> Yes, then it is somewhat similar to our VIRVE. In last storms some VIRVE base stations went down, so a backup has been wished.
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[18:14] <OH7HJ-1> A very primitive kind alert. It is the packet chat OH room. :)
[18:14] <Reb-SM3ULC> OH7HJ-1: but cool idea with the varve, have to check if there are such stuff in .se
[18:16] <Reb-SM3ULC> OH7HJ-1: well, just text chat can take you pretty far. did a "emergency comm system" based on irc+javascript webpage
[18:16] <OH7HJ-1> The packet chat is a worldwide network like this. It is used as a call freq among network maintaining hams.
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[18:17] <OH7HJ-1> John G8BPQ coded a special 'emergency chat' fast shortcut to his LInBPQ software just a couple weeks ago. He is usually in the international packet chat.
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[18:23] <sa6bss> this is what b40 looks like at a scanspeed of 10min http://www.qsl.net/sa6bss/
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[18:24] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[18:27] <OH7HJ-1> Tnx spectrum pic!
[18:29] <OH7HJ-1> Yes Reb, for text need just a basic simple thenet packet network. Reliable and low power, works for days with simple UPS battery, and digipeats automatically thru nodes.
[18:36] <OH2FQV> Ge, anyone good with FL-digi errors?
[18:38] <Laurenceb> interesting
[18:38] <Laurenceb> like its heating itself up
[18:42] <Reb-SM3ULC> i have faint signals here, but have very very strong carrier smack in the middle...
[18:42] <x-f> OH2FQV, what's wrong with it?
[18:43] <OH2FQV> Hi x-f, I cant get fl-digi to connect. Warning! Couldn't set stationary location: invalid float
[18:43] <OH2FQV> uninstall and install hasnt help
[18:43] <OH2FQV> windows xp
[18:43] <x-f> your location needs to be in decimal format
[18:43] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: hello there, i have one incomming! :)
[18:43] <x-f> and don't forget the altitude
[18:44] <OH2FQV> x-f I havent given else than kp20mf locator
[18:44] <x-f> Reb-SM3ULC, "finally!!!!!!!!!" :)
[18:44] <x-f> OH2FQV, dl-fldigi needs GPS coordinates
[18:44] <OH2FQV> ok, let me try again. cazillionth time.
[18:44] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: 4.5 months since last time
[18:45] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: and now some ...... qrm, but only a carrier of some sort.. not wide..
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[18:46] <x-f> Reb-SM3ULC, sorry to hear that but i hope B-40 will get through the qrm
[18:46] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: yepp
[18:47] <x-f> OH2FQV, on the "Operator" tab only callsign is required, on "DL Client" -> "Location" tab you need to fill lat, lon and alt fields
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[18:48] <OH2FQV> x-f I see those gps coordinate fields are pink. let me find myself....
[18:48] SM5OCI (51d832c4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.216.50.196) joined #highaltitude.
[18:49] <SM5OCI> I can hear B-40! First balloon!
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[18:49] <Reb-SM3ULC> wei
[18:50] <SM5OCI> EH? "wei"?
[18:51] <bertrik> SM5OCI: super!
[18:51] <Reb-SM3ULC> SM5OCI: weird
[18:51] <Reb-SM3ULC> SM5OCI: _strong_ wrm on the yagi but none on the dipol
[18:52] <OH2FQV> x-f Dang! You made it! Thanks. So small thing and still so tricky
[18:52] <x-f> good :)
[18:53] <SM5OCI> I used a FT-817 with the supplied rubber antenna. Minus several dBd, I presume. I heard nothing indoors (computers, switched PSUs etc) but when I went away some 20 meters form the house I heard very weak blip---blip---blip.
[18:54] <OH2FQV> x-f Except I'm in the map in the middle of sea...
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[18:55] <SM5OCI> Aw. Now I have to get an antenna, a preamp, coaxes. I have a couple of 70cm 15-or-so elemet yagis stacked away somewhere. This is gonna be expensive, at least considering that I will hear maybe only a couple of balloons each year.
[18:55] <SM5OCI> I guess B-40 transmits vertical polarization, right?
[18:55] <OH2FQV> x-f I need to check coordinates better from other source. Thanks of the help, now its up of me again... to mess up ;o)
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[18:57] <bertrik> SM5OCI: yes, all balloons I've seen so far are vertical
[18:58] <x-f> OH2FQV, precise coordinates only affect how dl-fldigi calculates distance and elevation of the balloon
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[18:59] <OH2FQV> x-f Now its some 4km error. I'll tinker myself to the correct location to the map. maybe google map is better than aprs
[19:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> wohoo! LinBPQ
[19:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> vafan
[19:02] <sa6bss> getting red ones $$B-40,313,185423,140213,58.9327,16.2797,8088,8,-50,1.24*22E0
[19:02] <sa6bss> $$ --W,314,185626,140213,58.9508,16.327,8084 7,-47O1.^5*4:E8
[19:02] <sa6bss>
[19:02] <sa6bss> YSIAO'RLX'&
[19:02] <sa6bss> 0-VM@0"N"WZE1?S3*G>*Y$,58.9$56,1(.383 ,80I3,9,-49,1.24*8738
[19:02] <sa6bss> $$<-40,316,190056,140213,58.9K9?16.4296,8037,H,-)0K1.22*>4B5
[19:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> i got one, but cutnpaste... via free teamviewer.. no..
[19:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> yagi.. no way... simple dipol.. yes...
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[19:10] <SM5OCI> Reb-SM3ULC: B-40 is going to pass direcly over your head!¨(According to the prediction.)
[19:12] <Reb-SM3ULC> mm
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[19:12] <adamgreig> I sure hope it follows that prediction :P
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[19:12] <adamgreig> things start looking very cool on map projections near the north pole
[19:13] <fsphil> what's the prediction?
[19:13] <adamgreig> it goes quite north :P
[19:13] <jcoxon> arctic challenge!
[19:13] <arko> the game is on
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[19:15] <SM5OCI> Hmmm. I hav asked before but forgotten: What are the green and blue circles?
[19:16] <fsphil> the blue circle is the payload's horizon
[19:16] <fsphil> the green circle is where the payload is 5 degrees above the horizon
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[19:16] <aadamson> what's still flying anything?
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[19:18] <SM5OCI> fsphil: Thanks.
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[19:21] <Reb-SM3ULC> some oh* guys ready?
[19:21] Nick change: BrainDamage_ -> BrainDamage
[19:21] <Reb-SM3ULC> i will probably lose it quite fast
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[19:23] <Reb-SM3ULC> check trajectory.. http://www.leobodnar.com/balloons/B-17/index.html
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[19:26] <Reb-SM3ULC> some aircraft around the balloon.. http://www.flightradar24.com/60.09,16.33/8
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[19:26] <DL7AD> evening
[19:26] <sm0ikr> GE
[19:27] <SM5OCI> GE själv.
[19:28] <G8APZ> OH2FQV You can use this to click on your exact QTH and get decimal lat/long > http://www.beaconspot.eu/locator.php
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[19:29] <es5nhc> Looks like B40 passes pretty close from Stockholm?
[19:29] <Reb-SM3ULC> This one was weak. At least with vert polar.
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[19:30] <arko> what happen to B39?
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[19:30] <Reb-SM3ULC> es5nhc: heading for arlanda.. our biggest airport...
[19:30] <arko> i assume balloon popped, is anyone recovering it?
[19:30] <es5nhc> Yikes :S
[19:32] <OH2FQV> G8APZ thanks of the tip. I change my coordinates already, but for some reason my location didnt change on the map
[19:32] <es5nhc> I had similar feelings when there was an pass over Tallinn last week, fortunately it went over the western side of the city
[19:32] <jcoxon> it'll be okay
[19:33] <x-f> arko, someone tried to listen for it from a lighthouse near its last position, but couldn't hear it
[19:33] <arko> aw
[19:33] <arko> likely that it landed with solar panels covered
[19:33] <arko> trees and what not
[19:33] <arko> or on its side
[19:34] <x-f> or sleeps with the fishes
[19:35] <arko> :(
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[19:39] <SM5OCI> Reb-SM3ULC: It is approaching you quickly. Is it still weak?
[19:40] <Reb-SM3ULC> hear some signals
[19:40] <Reb-SM3ULC> very weak
[19:40] <Reb-SM3ULC> now
[19:41] <OH2FQV> x-f Can I bug you a bit again?
[19:41] <Reb-SM3ULC> btu these things seem to fade now and then
[19:41] <sm0ikr> ucl de IKR fq?
[19:41] <SM5OCI> Ok.Pity. Maybe bad battery and the sun is down.
[19:41] <Reb-SM3ULC> sm0ikr: 434.500
[19:42] <SM5OCI> USB.
[19:43] <SM5OCI> ... or a few kHz below.
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[19:44] mclane (~quassel@p5498D7E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:45] <x-f> OH2FQV, sure, what's up?
[19:48] <ifreq> hey x-f :-)
[19:48] <x-f> hi, ifreq :)
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[19:49] <ifreq> finally decided to join here also so I will get the latest info about balloons :)
[19:49] <ifreq> were familiar from other channel as you may remember *g*
[19:49] <ifreq> and for OH2FQV hello OM de oh2fxd ;-)
[19:50] <ifreq> fqv lives about 5km away from my place
[19:50] <ifreq> small world :P
[19:50] <ifreq> too small
[19:50] <x-f> of course i remember
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[19:52] <SM5OCI> Reb-SM3ULC: Now, did you receive a few packets just a minute ago?
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[19:54] <Reb-SM3ULC> yepp
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[19:57] <SM5OCI> Rev-SM3ULC: Kool!
[19:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> 16.5 km away last packet
[19:59] <Reb-SM3ULC> clear and nice signal now
[20:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> 28dB
[20:01] <mclane_> has b39 been recovered?
[20:02] <Upu> nope mclane_
[20:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi anthony and mclane_
[20:04] <Upu> Hi Lunar
[20:04] <Upu> Finland looks ready
[20:04] <Reb-SM3ULC> great
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[20:06] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: hat off for leo who aim so good at swedish receivers..
[20:07] <SM5OCI> all: B-40 is now just some 15 km from the QTH of SM3ULC. He deserves it, as he has been promoting HAB to the Swedish ham community (at www.ham.se)
[20:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> :)
[20:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> closest was about 13 km
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[20:10] <jcoxon> if i could adapt any law of physics temporarily i'd make multimeter cables weightless so they stop pulling things off my desk
[20:10] <SM5OCI> Reb-SM3ULC: Is that 13 km ground track? Actual distance is then SQRT(13^2 + 8^2) ;-)
[20:11] <mikestir> lol jcoxon: see also ftdi serial cables
[20:11] <Upu> haha know exactly what you mean :)
[20:11] <Upu> testing GPS modules atm
[20:11] <number10> put the multimeter on the desk jcoxon ;)
[20:12] <LeoBodnar> wireless probes ftw
[20:13] <x-f> meanwhile i got the Masat-1 birthday beacon message - http://i.imgur.com/m7nAn7A.png
[20:13] keydash (bc4f2681@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.79.38.129) joined #highaltitude.
[20:13] <keydash> hello
[20:14] <Reb-SM3ULC> SM5OCI: ground track i guess, from fldigi.... i track aircraft en masse also.. :)
[20:14] <Reb-SM3ULC> SM5OCI: closest level is about 700 m above
[20:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: you run your base computer on linux?
[20:16] <x-f> Reb-SM3ULC, win7
[20:16] oh1jcs (3ef8b5af@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.248.181.175) joined #highaltitude.
[20:17] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: the icons top left?
[20:19] <x-f> i like the taskbar on top of the screen, i'm kind of weird like that :|
[20:19] <SM5OCI> x-f: Do you provide the fine graphs of the telemetry?
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[20:20] <x-f> SM5OCI, http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/
[20:21] <x-f> but i just display it, data comes from you, the listeners :)
[20:21] <SM5OCI> I wonder about the units. Height is apparently meters, but what is the unit of hte speed?
[20:21] <x-f> km/h
[20:22] <SM5OCI> I guess you compute the speed.
[20:22] <SM5OCI> Ok, thanks.
[20:22] <SM5OCI> Here is an area for a small improvement...
[20:22] <SM5OCI> ... if time and enthusiasm is available.
[20:23] <x-f> yes?
[20:23] <SM5OCI> Also, time seems to be UT-1
[20:23] <x-f> yes, time is off, i haven't been able to fix that :/
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[20:24] <SM5OCI> Ok, then I understnad the reason. I do not have unlimited time for intersting stuff either...
[20:26] <x-f> "there's never enough time to do all the nothing you want"
[20:27] <Reb-SM3ULC> ok, very very weak here now
[20:27] <Reb-SM3ULC> beeps ok, no decodes
[20:28] <Reb-SM3ULC> Over to mr OJS in åländska skärgården!
[20:34] <SM5OCI> Reb-SM3ULC: If you are receiving with a RTL and a 40m vertical, and possibly a long coax cable more suited to HF than VHF, then I understand that B-40 is weak despite the close distance.
[20:34] <sa6bss> hey!! Talk about B-40 comming over my house, it did, spot on, the small dot is my 2m/70cm ant https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26543754/B40-qth.jpg
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[20:34] <SM5OCI> sa6bss: Amazing!
[20:34] <sa6bss> indeed!!
[20:35] <Reb-SM3ULC> SM5OCI: i have 3m rg213 between rtl and 70 cm dipol
[20:36] <Reb-SM3ULC> sa6bss: question is.. how did you do it? :)
[20:36] <kd2eat> Wow! You could have shot it down! hehe
[20:37] <SM5OCI> Reb-SM3ULC: Ok, that sounds better. On the tracker, your station descriptin says "Vertical for 40m".
[20:37] <Reb-SM3ULC> SM5OCI: ouch, must be the other fl-digi
[20:37] <sa6bss> better spemd some mone on the lottery, thats not going to happen again :)
[20:38] <Reb-SM3ULC> sa6bss: ok, you won
[20:38] <sa6bss> hehe
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[20:49] <Reb-SM3ULC> just do doublecheck.. it's sending aprs on 144.8?
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[20:50] <jcoxon> yeah still aprs
[20:51] <Upu> I can switch that back on if no one is recieving
[20:51] <Reb-SM3ULC> oki
[20:52] <Upu> k on
[20:52] <Upu> ping me if anyone starts to RX it "properly"
[20:53] SM5OCI (51d832c4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.216.50.196) left irc:
[20:54] <Laurenceb_> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/170249_trj001.gif
[20:55] OH2FQV (58c15247@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.193.82.71) left irc:
[20:55] <jcoxon> thanks Laurenceb
[20:55] <arko> b-40 stands a chance
[20:56] <jcoxon> so what gets intereting is of course hte further north it goes the less sunlight
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> it has no solar power
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> just a single AAA
[20:56] <jcoxon> i mean on the envelope
[20:56] <DL1SGP2> Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo B-40!
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> ah, yes
[20:57] <LeoBodnar> even barely well made SP should survive
[20:57] <LeoBodnar> at > 13km
[20:57] <LeoBodnar> or were you thinking about something else jcoxon ?
[20:58] <jcoxon> well far enough north you'll get no night/day cycle
[20:58] <jcoxon> though i guess icing is more of an issue :-)
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> temperatures probably reach -70C
[20:59] <arko> LeoBodnar: how much longer is it expected to live?
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> till tomorrow afternoon I hope
[21:00] <LeoBodnar> B-38 did
[21:00] <arko> wow, thats power efficient
[21:00] <arko> 48+ hours?
[21:00] <LeoBodnar> yeah it would be more if not -50C during the night
[21:01] <LeoBodnar> B-38 has seen -60C
[21:01] <arko> ouch
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> hi LeoBodnar
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[21:05] <LeoBodnar> yo
[21:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> yo
[21:12] <Lunar_Lander> hej :)
[21:19] <aadamson> might be over kill, but anyone thought of using a ti cdcel913 clock generator to drive the si chip? seems it might allow flexiblity with minimum step size for doing stuff via (x)fsk etc...
[21:20] <aadamson> just stumbled on it today in looking for a way to have cake and eat it too in doing multiple frequencies and multiple modulation schemes
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[21:24] <LeoBodnar> it might work. It has reasonably clean PLL.
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> I have used it for HF FKS modulation.
[21:25] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, what I can't tell is what the vddout is vs. what the output of the youts are
[21:25] <aadamson> do they expect you to ac couple the y outs to the vddout
[21:25] <aadamson> or is the youts at a level that can drive the si chip ?
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> no, sorry i don't understand
[21:26] <aadamson> obvioulsy the cdcel chip is a 1.8v chip
[21:26] <aadamson> I'm just wondering what the output span is on the youts.
[21:26] <LeoBodnar> it has separate Vdd for output drivers
[21:26] <aadamson> the si wan't s .6 - 1.4 p2p for example
[21:26] <aadamson> so do you know what the yout output level is then?
[21:26] <LeoBodnar> 3.3 / 2.5 / 1.8 versions
[21:27] <aadamson> is that the -.5 to .5 as referenced in the datasheet
[21:27] <LeoBodnar> yes, Vddout
[21:27] <aadamson> +/-.5v that is
[21:27] <aadamson> no wait... I'm even more confused now.
[21:27] <aadamson> vddout is whatever the chip is 1.8, 2.5, 3.3 etc. I get that
[21:27] <aadamson> but what is the yout level?
[21:27] <LeoBodnar> chip logic is always powered by 1.8v
[21:28] <aadamson> ok so you are saying that the youts would be +/- 1.8/2
[21:28] <aadamson> ?
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> output drivers can be what you want (within spec and chip version )
[21:28] <LeoBodnar> no it is between 0 and Vddout (simplifying it massively)
[21:29] <aadamson> ok...
[21:29] <LeoBodnar> page 6 of DS
[21:31] <LeoBodnar> Voh = 1.6v Vol=0.1v for "L" version with Vddout=1.8v and 0.1mA load current
[21:31] <bertrik> will there be any more launches tonight/tomorrow?
[21:31] <LeoBodnar> not from me
[21:31] <daveake> who knows :p
[21:31] <daveake> wow
[21:31] <aadamson> ah, there is it...
[21:31] <daveake> OK in that case no
[21:32] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, you are making good progress north
[21:32] <aadamson> so it's .1-1.6 simplifying things
[21:32] <bertrik> ok thanks, missed B-39 :|
[21:35] <LeoBodnar> CDCE913 is a bit of a pain to use for FSK as PLL parameters are taking effect as you are writing them
[21:35] <jcoxon> i'm suprised no OH stations have picked it up
[21:35] <LeoBodnar> OH dear
[21:36] <jcoxon> hmmmm
[21:37] <aadamson> for fsk, I was thinking of just using it to get the right lo for the step size and then using the channel approach on the si chip as you do with some of your mfsk stuff today
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> so if you need to write 5-6 bytes over I2C, PLL will go through some horrific parameter sets momentarily
[21:37] <aadamson> that's hard to do with a fixed frequency tcxo or vcxo and not compromise other stuff
[21:37] <aadamson> ok, understood.
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[21:53] <gonzo__> leo, is B40 coming in on aprs at the mo?
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[21:55] <DL1SGP2> yes gonzo__
[21:56] <gonzo__> rr thanks.
[21:59] <DL1SGP2> as soon as a station should receive it in traditional way the display can be switched back to standard mode, but until then the aprs data is being used for feeding the system
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[22:23] <Rocketmagnet> Hello
[22:23] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[22:24] <Rocketmagnet> I wonder if someone can give me some help with building my own APRS transmitter
[22:24] <LeoBodnar> building or designing?
[22:25] <Rocketmagnet> I'm using a Radiometrix HX1 transmitter module, and I'm using a microcontroller + DAC to generate the audio tones.
[22:25] <Rocketmagnet> So, according to the literature, I'm supposed to use 1200Hz and 2200Hz
[22:25] <Rocketmagnet> Right?
[22:25] <LeoBodnar> yes
[22:26] <Rocketmagnet> That seems strange to me because at 1200 baud, you can fit exactly one cycle of 1200Hz
[22:26] <Rocketmagnet> But you can't fit exactly 2 cycles of 2200Hz.
[22:26] <Rocketmagnet> Now, if it was 2400Hz that would fit nicely.
[22:27] <LeoBodnar> This is Bell 202 standard
[22:27] <Rocketmagnet> How exactly do the audio waves join up?
[22:27] <Rocketmagnet> But, I mean, what happens on the transition from 2200Hz to 1200Hz?
[22:27] <LeoBodnar> If you use 1200/2400 pair then heavily distorted 1200 will be indistinguishable from 2400
[22:27] <Rocketmagnet> There'll be some kind of phase jump?
[22:27] <bertrik> if I would make it, I'd make it phase continuous
[22:28] <LeoBodnar> Most system I have seen use continuous phase
[22:28] <fsphil> everything about aprs is odd
[22:28] <LeoBodnar> so there are 5 possible ways of joining them if you are writing a state machine
[22:29] <LeoBodnar> i.e. 2200 tone can end up with 5 different phase offsets
[22:29] <Rocketmagnet> ok, so each bit doesn't necessarily start at 0 degrees phase ?
[22:29] <LeoBodnar> no
[22:29] <LeoBodnar> it carries on from previous bit
[22:29] <Rocketmagnet> aah, ok
[22:29] <Rocketmagnet> that's annoying
[22:29] <fsphil> it's not too bad
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> I have seen some suggestion that using coherent tones might help in decoding but am yet to see a system that uses that
[22:30] <Rocketmagnet> 1200 and 2400Hz would have been much easier
[22:30] <fsphil> yay aprs :)
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> It would have horrible spectrum footprint
[22:30] <bertrik> my old MSX home computer used 1200 and 2400 Hz if I remember correctly :D
[22:30] <Rocketmagnet> Seriously, I've never worked with a more frustrating system in my life.
[22:30] <fsphil> after the modem it gets worse
[22:30] <LeoBodnar> 2400 is second harmonic of 1200
[22:31] <Rocketmagnet> Actually, I have managed to transmit some packets successfully using 2400Hz
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> I'd go to extreme and use irrational tones
[22:31] <Rocketmagnet> But it's not reliable, and I was wondering if it was because of that.
[22:31] <fsphil> likely
[22:31] <LeoBodnar> like e and À
[22:31] <fsphil> if I was doing it, I wouldn't use AFSK
[22:31] <Rocketmagnet> OK, thanks guys.
[22:31] <Rocketmagnet> let me try that.
[22:32] <fsphil> I shouldn't be so negative but APRS does that to me :)
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> just google for phase continuous bell 202 or something like that
[22:32] <Rocketmagnet> one more thing
[22:32] <Rocketmagnet> What about pre emphasis ?
[22:32] <LeoBodnar> use it
[22:33] <Rocketmagnet> Doesn't the 2200Hz need to be louder?
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> yes roughly by x2
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[22:33] <Rocketmagnet> Then isn't there an amplitude jump between bits?
[22:33] Nick change: DanielRi1hman -> DanielRichman
[22:33] <bertrik> hm, so you can decode both by FM and AM ? :D
[22:33] <LeoBodnar> http://www.febo.com/packet/layer-one/transmit.html
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[22:34] <LeoBodnar> good point bertrik lol
[22:34] <LeoBodnar> stick a diode and a cap in
[22:34] <LeoBodnar> simplest APRS decoder
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[22:35] <LeoBodnar> the easiest way to so is to stick pre-emphasis RC network after your DAC
[22:35] <LeoBodnar> analogue rules
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[22:35] <LeoBodnar> this is how FM ham radios do it
[22:35] <LeoBodnar> *do
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[22:36] <LeoBodnar> basically its is +3dB/octave shaping filter
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> but you can do it firmware if you want to
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> *in
[22:37] <Rocketmagnet> What R and C value ?
[22:39] <fsphil> I didn't bother with the pre-emphasis. probably should
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[22:39] <Rocketmagnet> Maybe this helps
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> the time constant should be quite high to give you a knee in the few 100Hz region
[22:39] <Rocketmagnet> http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/pdemph-post.html
[22:40] <LeoBodnar> yep, looks like the one you need
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[22:41] <LeoBodnar> ham FM radios use pre-emphasis with very low knee freq so basically +3dB/octave slope starts from few 100s Hz
[22:41] <LeoBodnar> fsphil: it will help in marginal cases
[22:42] <LeoBodnar> like on a balloon :D
[22:43] <LeoBodnar> flat modulated signal looks horrible on a scope. Just stick an audio output of your FM radio in a scope and have a look.
[22:43] <LeoBodnar> APRS is such a mess on ALL levels
[22:43] <jcoxon> i dislike aprs
[22:44] <Rocketmagnet> I'm going to have a GPRS backup on my balloon
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> from modulation to packet structure to message contents to network infrastructure to etc etc etc
[22:44] <jcoxon> well i think its great but badly implemented
[22:44] <Rocketmagnet> I mean GSM
[22:44] <adamgreig> haha yes the message contents is defo the worst part of APRS
[22:44] <Rocketmagnet> Also, Mic-E is *insane*
[22:44] <adamgreig> always just cars in traffic jams
[22:44] <LeoBodnar> Bruninga is mad
[22:45] <Rocketmagnet> It's hard to decide which is the worst part of APRS. There are so many contenders.
[22:45] Action: jcoxon hopes that ukhasnet doesn't become like aprs
[22:46] <fsphil> that's rule 1 of ukhasnet
[22:46] <Reb-SM3ULC> I like rxid. Could be a part of aprs-ng.
[22:48] <Rocketmagnet> Thanks for your help guys. I really appreciate it.
[22:48] <Rocketmagnet> I would never have thought of analogue pre-emphasis.
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[22:50] <LeoBodnar> nps
[22:59] <cm13g09> mfa298_: ping
[22:59] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
[23:00] <cm13g09> mfa298: see PM
[23:07] <Laurenceb_> where is the APRS coming from?!
[23:08] <Laurenceb_> oh OH
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[23:08] <Laurenceb_> odd that they dont show on the map
[23:10] <Upu> its importing from aprs.fi
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> i meant on aprs.fi
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> f5 fixed it :P
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> its keeping closely to the prediction
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[00:00] --- Fri Feb 14 2014