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[05:26] <Reb-SM3ULC> Good morning!
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[05:35] <gurgalof> godmorgon!
[05:35] <gurgalof> I was just about to get out and try recieve B-38
[05:37] <Reb-SM3ULC> gurgalof: good luck! seems the winds are not in my favor.
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[05:38] <gurgalof> I just hacked together a dipole from a coathanger
[05:38] <Reb-SM3ULC> :)
[05:39] <Reb-SM3ULC> javascript:wndw('/hypubout/165432_trj001.gif');
[05:39] <Reb-SM3ULC> jaja
[05:39] <Reb-SM3ULC> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/165432_trj001.gif
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[05:51] <x-f> good morning
[05:53] <x-f> i see both balloons are still being tracked, woo
[05:55] <x-f> just 3.9 degrees for SP3OSJ to the Arctic circle :)
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[05:57] <x-f> good morning, oh7bd, thanks for tracking :)
[05:59] <oh7bd> GM, my pleasure!
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[06:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: mr burns should not have hired Homer to do predictions.. ;)
[06:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> No batt stats from B-38?
[06:08] <x-f> Homer would just draw them from his imagination
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[06:10] <x-f> B-38 is being imported from aprs.fi for now - "Vbatt: 1.125 V, Vsolar: 0 V, Temp: -56.300 C, Sats: 11, Acc: 9 m"
[06:10] <x-f> as M0XER-8
[06:23] <gurgalof> bah, too much noise, I'm not getting anything
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[06:47] <jcoxon> morning
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[06:47] <arko> good morning
[06:47] <jcoxon> anyone further north then OH7BD?
[06:47] <Upu> morning
[06:47] <Upu> you best hope not jcoxon :)
[06:48] <arko> if no one crosses 66 im gonna fly to 65.9 and let one go
[06:48] <arko> by ukhas 2014 :P
[06:48] <Upu> watch it go south :)
[06:48] <arko> hahaha
[06:48] <arko> with my luck it would
[06:48] <jcoxon> oh i'd love someone to win the arctic challenge
[06:49] <jcoxon> not sure it was in SP3OSJ's plan but we'll accept the entry
[06:49] <Upu> I'm not even sure SP3OSJ is aware of it
[06:49] <jcoxon> what are the predictions for B-38
[06:49] <jcoxon> ?
[06:50] <Upu> no idea I'll run a Hysplit
[06:50] <Upu> doesn't look like it has solar on it
[06:52] <Upu> odd http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/168298_trj001.gif
[06:52] <jcoxon> Upu, thats a good path
[06:52] <jcoxon> take advantage of the finnish stations
[06:57] <Upu> yep
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[07:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> Upu: cool, norway is high.. better go around... ;9
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[08:22] <DL7AD> good morning
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[08:42] <DL7AD> Upu: ping
[08:42] <UpuWork> pong
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[08:43] <la3eq> gm
[08:43] <UpuWork> morning
[08:43] <la3eq> hearing B-38 but still no decode
[08:44] <la3eq> it is sending three dots a time now!
[08:44] <la3eq> is this normal?
[08:45] <UpuWork> possibly
[08:45] <UpuWork> ping LeoBodnar
[08:49] <UpuWork> hmm nothing from Brian for a hour
[08:50] <la3eq> Brian has gone to work
[08:50] <UpuWork> re-enabled the APRS
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[08:51] <la3eq_> ..
[08:52] <la3eq_> now B-38 is sending single dots again...
[08:53] <la3eq_> i am not getting good decoes yet
[08:54] <gurgalof> I'm not even hearing it
[08:55] <gurgalof> I think I need to finish my LNA
[08:55] <DL7AD> good morning la3eq_
[08:56] <gurgalof> I'm seeing peoples wireless temperatur sensors and stuff...
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[08:58] <la3eq_> M?'(LL6D3B"@C RH'LK'LL/GN*NL3N /M^/SK(NV)O&3GN+KF*SW)L*3GR2MF3N9,I7 GM^#_;=M,GR*GJ3OW*HI)SO+OR.OC*HN&IM*L/1KU*H;'I".SY3&S,1LL5LL.I"C_OH'A4^I#+E!&*0<!J&5
[09:00] <UpuWork> APRS is working
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[09:03] <DL7AD> UpuWork: morning. tell me, whos updating the text box on spacenear?
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[09:04] <la3eq> is there any way to screar the yellow screen on dlfldigi?
[09:04] <la3eq> '
[09:04] <UpuWork> I can update iut
[09:04] <UpuWork> it
[09:04] <UpuWork> others can too
[09:05] <x-f> la3eq, right click on it and choose "clear"
[09:05] <la3eq> tnx
[09:06] <la3eq> B-38 is more then 20dB over noise level, but decodes look silly.
[09:06] <x-f> have you set it to Contestia 8/1000?
[09:06] <la3eq> yes
[09:06] <x-f> hm
[09:07] Nick change: Sytex_AWAY -> Sytex_WORK
[09:07] <DL7AD> UpuWork: i got many questions about whether SP3OSJ is transmitting at 434.500 and some did so. could you separate the two balloons next time more visible?
[09:09] <UpuWork> well they are on seperate lines
[09:09] <UpuWork> need more info from SP3OSJ next time really
[09:10] <DL7AD> UpuWork: yep. more info is good. but this version is still misunderstood ;) even when they are separated in lines
[09:10] Action: UpuWork shrugs
[09:12] <DL7AD> *rollingeyes
[09:12] <DL7AD> anyway.... SP3OSJs battery seems to be empty
[09:12] <DL7AD> cant power the gps anymore i think
[09:13] <fsphil> at least you'd be able to track it
[09:14] <fsphil> well that comment was very late
[09:14] <fsphil> ignore me
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[09:15] <craag> That's a shame, looks like it was set to win the arctic challenge
[09:15] <craag> more battery life and a couple more eager finns required next time!
[09:15] <fsphil> aww
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[09:16] <fsphil> are conditions good for this atm?
[09:16] <DL7AD> im astonished. didnt SP3OSJs balloons have a higher value of power?
[09:16] <x-f> was a good attempt
[09:16] <LeoBodnar> morning
[09:16] <x-f> morning
[09:17] <DL7AD> morning @all
[09:17] <fsphil> I've never seen so many stations in Finland before
[09:17] <craag> fsphil: I still think summer would be better as then solar becomes more viable power up there.
[09:17] <x-f> DL7AD, afaik this was a new PCB for him, and i think it was transmitting with more than 10mW
[09:17] <DL1SGP1> morning guys
[09:17] <DL7AD> fsphil: there willl come some more soon more north.
[09:17] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[09:17] <fsphil> excellent
[09:17] <DL7AD> x-f: ah okay.
[09:17] <DL7AD> thx
[09:24] <LeoBodnar> aww, is SP3OSJ waiting for more sunlight?
[09:30] <DL1SGP> I wonder if that magic gps glitch line is meant to be a barrier for B-38 :)
[09:32] <DL7AD> LeoBodnar: do you have already a webpage for B-38 ?
[09:33] <LeoBodnar> no DL7AD
[09:33] <DL7AD> i need them to aquire more receivers in the north. :/
[09:33] <la3eq> shoild SQL be "off"?
[09:33] <Maxell> Nice! http://aprs.fi/#!mt=terrain&call=a%2FM0XER-8&timerange=172800&tail=172800 :)
[09:33] <fsphil> la3eq: yea
[09:33] <la3eq> ok
[09:36] <Maxell> \o/ http://aprs.fi/telemetry/a/M0XER-8?range=day
[09:36] <Prometheus> LeoBodnar do you sell your trackers?
[09:38] <Prometheus> or are they open source?
[09:40] <Darkside> Prometheus: theres a bit of a convntion here regarding selling trackrs
[09:40] <LeoBodnar> I have not considered selling them because they are still in development stage. As to the source I am using PIC24 assembly so it's probably pointless atm
[09:40] <Darkside> basically, we don't.
[09:41] <LeoBodnar> yeah, it has been frowned upon or at least it brought up some interesting discussions
[09:41] <Darkside> we would prefer peopl launching a balloon to spend some more time and think about what they are doing, and th safety implications of it.
[09:42] <LeoBodnar> the gist of it was that HABbing includes reasonably grown-up decisions making and care and lowering the entry threshold into the hobby was not a samrt move
[09:42] <fsphil> it's also massively educational
[09:42] <Darkside> we've seen many cases of people not thinking it through, and either losing their payload, or doing somthing else stupid
[09:42] <LeoBodnar> this does not apply to you Prometheus of course lol
[09:43] <la3eq> anyone know why there is no station maker on me at ther trackerr map??? i am online...
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[09:43] <Darkside> la3eq: it takes time to update
[09:43] <fsphil> have you filled in your coordinates and altitude la3eq?
[09:43] <la3eq> yes
[09:44] <OH7HJ> Had my Rx track SP3OSJ overnight, but did not hear it although within range. However, OH7BD did copy it with his high aerial. We both have simple omnidirectional 70 cm verticals.
[09:44] <fsphil> it may just be a bit slow then
[09:44] <la3eq> still no good decods from B-38 even thoug good signal level
[09:44] <fsphil> are you on the right sideband?
[09:44] <Prometheus> do you make the circut boards?
[09:44] <la3eq> yes USB
[09:45] <OH7HJ> Yep, USB, and searching up and down for possible freq drift.
[09:45] <Prometheus> la3eg is it a solid tone?
[09:46] <la3eq> no...beep...beep and then tree biips,,, and then data transmission
[09:46] <Prometheus> well that's something then
[09:46] <fsphil> that's definitly it
[09:46] <fsphil> strange that it's not decoding
[09:46] <Prometheus> restart you decoder software?
[09:46] <fsphil> does pressing RV make any difference?
[09:47] beingaware (~beingawar@2001:44b8:219e:8000:7ce8:c714:7ba3:6419) left irc: Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
[09:47] <la3eq> rv turns the green light off
[09:47] <la3eq> i copy noise from the data transmission, but it look silly....i have made a wav file recording...
[09:48] <Prometheus> Are you running an SDR?
[09:48] <la3eq> no, normal pc
[09:48] <la3eq> abd ts2000 receiver
[09:48] <Prometheus> Sorry guy's I'm learning about how you guy's do this
[09:49] <la3eq> this is data received: 5+@QZFZ+"<S,UTA; =$99)KOYBAII*!*:_>
[09:49] <Prometheus> into a sound card for decoding?
[09:49] <la3eq> yes
[09:49] <la3eq> looks nice on the fldigi displayu
[09:49] <Prometheus> what os are you using?
[09:49] <la3eq> win7
[09:50] <Prometheus> you where getting decodded data before right?
[09:50] <la3eq> does anyone want a copy of the last data transmiussion as a wave file?
[09:50] <la3eq> no not today....
[09:50] <Prometheus> yeah I'll grab that if you willing
[09:50] <la3eq> some months ago it was ok
[09:51] <Prometheus> ok yeah roger that la3eq
[09:51] <la3eq> how do i send it to you??? skype??
[09:51] <OH7HJ> DL7AD, good point about more receivers in the north! To get more RX's with good receiving radius up to the Arctic Circle, it might be useful to consider furnishing the payload with a 2 m Tx, instead of 70 cm Tx. This is because 70 cm is rather obsolent here as a short range only band in our deep forests. 2 m is the highest practical band with good yagis on ham stations here in North.
[09:51] <Prometheus> how big is the file?
[09:52] <la3eq> 481kb
[09:52] <Prometheus> monroe@teamprometheus.org if it's like 10 meg or less
[09:53] <Prometheus> hows that
[09:53] <DL7AD> OH7HJ: agree.... but you cant use the ism band in uk. thats the point why everyone is using 70cm. but indeed 2m is more useful.
[09:53] <la3eq> ok
[09:54] <Prometheus> skype is monroe.lee.king.jr
[09:54] <Prometheus> if you wanna chat sometime
[09:56] <fsphil> RV should be off
[09:56] <fsphil> and both radio and fldigi set to USB mode
[09:57] <Prometheus> what software are you guy's using if I can DL it I can install it and look
[09:57] <fsphil> dl-fldigi
[09:57] <la3eq> mail on it's way with wave file...
[09:57] <fsphil> it's a customised version of fldigi for HAB'ing
[09:57] <LeoBodnar> it's just a spin-off of fldigi Prometheus with same modes plus some SSDV hacks
[09:57] <OH7HJ> DL7AD, thanks for UK band allocation info! Is it the same restriction in Poland, too? However, LeoBodnar seems to have a solution to country band allocations, with his 2 m aprs Tx switched on when over a country allowing its use..! :)
[09:59] <fsphil> there's a slim chance we might be allowed to use 144mhz in the future
[09:59] <fsphil> in the uk
[09:59] <la3eq> prometheus: did you receive the mail?
[10:00] <la3eq> I would love to find out whats wrong...B-38 is so nice and strong....and no decode :(
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[10:00] <fsphil> can you send me a copy too, I've never heard a B flight doing contestia
[10:01] <fsphil> my nick @sanslogic.co.uk
[10:01] <la3eq> fsphil: yes...your email?
[10:02] <Prometheus> la3eq Yes, I did thank you I can use this to set up my software I DL'ed your fldigi working the problem
[10:02] <Prometheus> your using Win7 64 or 32?
[10:02] <la3eq> 32 bit
[10:03] <OH7HJ> Fortunately 70 cm is a common band in UK with lots of ham stations and short QSO distances between them, fsphil! The need for 2 m comes only when racing for Arctic Circle through Scandinavia; The 70 cm is simply not in use in Lapland...
[10:03] <Prometheus> roger
[10:03] <fsphil> 70cm has worked well for us. but it would be nice to be able to do a little bit more power than 10mw
[10:03] <DL7AD> OH7HJ: ehm yes. ISM in UK only but Leo can switch to 2m
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> a bit more power indeed - mostly for higher BW data
[10:04] <Prometheus> Why not use bot 70cm and 2 meter geofence the 70cm and 2 meter by GPS location?
[10:04] <OH7HJ> So Leo hasa clear advantage over others for Arctic Crossing..! ;)
[10:05] <Prometheus> lol
[10:05] <fsphil> that's basically what LeoBodnar is doing Prometheus
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> Thats why I have a 2 degrees handicap OH7HJ heh
[10:05] <fsphil> the APRS on 144.800 is allowed only in certain geofenced areas
[10:05] <Prometheus> Thanks yeah I'm not in on the good stuff yet- what's the deal?
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[10:06] <Prometheus> this artic talk?
[10:06] <fsphil> http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:arctic_challenge
[10:06] <fsphil> just a little competition set by jcoxon
[10:06] <DL1SGP> Yeah so basically if Lapland based stations cannot handle the 70cm telemetry for now they are all invited to bring up igates to create infrastructure for the APRS signal sent by B-38 :)
[10:06] <la3eq> :fsphil mail sent to you with recording
[10:06] <fsphil> ta
[10:07] <fsphil> arrived
[10:07] <Prometheus> You should be able to write a program that would geofence the transmitters where they need to be and switch them does that make sense?
[10:08] <OH7HJ> Hi Prometheus, talking about a limitation tracking balloons up to Arctic. The limitation is, that ham stations in the North do not use 70 cm. The highest usual band with good yagis up there is 2 m.
[10:08] <Prometheus> I copy that
[10:09] <Prometheus> makes sense but you cant TX on 2 m? and 70cm switched?
[10:10] <Prometheus> I've not needed to that yet but now you guy's have me all floatter excited!
[10:10] <Prometheus> lol
[10:10] <OH7HJ> Lapland is a land with long distances, not only between ham stations. When you may drive 10 km for the next restaurant, people in the Arctic usually drive 100+ km for an evening meal..!
[10:11] <Prometheus> haha but it's great balloon terratory
[10:11] <DL1SGP> you can, but the current balloon is sending telemetry on 70cm only and 2m is used for APRS, future balloons might use a different approach and might indeed use geofencing in order to switch to a more suitable band for areas like Finland
[10:11] <fsphil> not decoding for me either la3eq
[10:12] <la3eq> ok..
[10:12] <DL1SGP> fsphil la3eq: can you check if the input is overdriven?
[10:12] <la3eq> to week then?
[10:12] <Prometheus> I've been doing latex and zero pressure balloons and now I'm looking at the super pressure floaters because of you guys
[10:13] <fsphil> I'm not familiar with contestia enough to say if that's strong enough
[10:13] <la3eq> seem to me that if it was rtty...then no problem!
[10:14] <fsphil> it's a weird sounding mode
[10:14] <la3eq> it getting stronger now... i try new recording next
[10:14] <Prometheus> I think it sounds kinda melidious
[10:14] <Prometheus> lol
[10:14] <fsphil> thor and dominoex sound great
[10:14] <la3eq> here goes..
[10:15] <la3eq> nice and strong now..
[10:15] <OH7HJ> More about the Lappish view: The Lapps are a nation spread over four countries. In reality, they are not bound by our regular country borders. Oh, maybe towards Russia, but just a little..! ;)
[10:15] <fsphil> hah
[10:15] <fsphil> sounds a bit like an unofficial version of the UK
[10:15] <fsphil> it's four countries in one (for the moment)
[10:16] <Prometheus> what file folder do you put the wav file in?
[10:16] <OH7HJ> Welsh and Scottish views similar? ;)
[10:16] <fsphil> in dl-fldigi, go to File > Audio > Playback
[10:17] <Prometheus> ty
[10:17] <Prometheus> Nope it's not decoding for me either
[10:19] <la3eq> >U7R.(#,Q,@S7G(T+',+8R+VE":_.7,',7!VTM;E@4)E>/;Q+)M#D5T@PN.VB;>Q,RQ*'=R%PX;*.4F?JTR+Z+,T"
[10:19] <Prometheus> is the text supposed to be in english?
[10:21] <OH7HJ> So in the Northern countries of immense distances, where even the next door for people may be across country border, it is useful to furnish a balloon for as long reception range as possible: High altitude + low VHF band.
[10:21] <Prometheus> "aercer erer emerc" is what I'm seeing so far
[10:23] <Prometheus> la3eq you have a new file with better signal?
[10:24] <Prometheus> OH7HJ sounds like a bunch of nomads in the desert
[10:24] <la3eq> reloaded dl-fldigi....same problem...no decode...'
[10:25] <UpuWork> it wasn't decoding well yesterday
[10:25] <UpuWork> not entirely sure if there isn't something wrong with the antenna
[10:25] <la3eq> prometheus did you geet the lastg one b38C recording?
[10:25] <Prometheus> hummm I wonder what the deal is?
[10:25] <Prometheus> no it looks like gibberish
[10:25] <OH7HJ> Further, please do not worry about band allocations in the Arctic. Lappland is known for having laws of its own: As long as you do not harm reindeer (or wives) of others, you are welcomed..! ;)
[10:26] <Prometheus> copy that OH7HJ
[10:27] <LeoBodnar> something is wrong with the receiver or transmitter
[10:28] <LeoBodnar> RSID on a sample transmission is about 160Hz wide
[10:28] <LeoBodnar> on the one from la3eq it's about 100Hz
[10:29] <Prometheus> Thanks la3eq yes I did get it
[10:29] <LeoBodnar> And the signal footprint seems narrower than contestia 8/1000 red line limits
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[10:30] <LeoBodnar> and RSID timing is off as well, hmmm
[10:31] <la3eq> Prometheus: just sent you the latest wav...best up to now
[10:31] <LeoBodnar> wut? perfect copy $$B-38,603,094411,140210,58.1267,8.5513,8653,8,-33,1.35*7A48 $$B-38,604,094620,140210,58.136,8.5512,8808,6,-29,1.36*85A9
[10:32] <LeoBodnar> don't load the file into dl-fldigi, play it with an audio player and capture the output
[10:32] <LeoBodnar> *feed the output to dl-fldigi
[10:35] <LeoBodnar> la3eq: I have a perfect decode from your wav file
[10:35] <Prometheus> Roger- hey thanks for taking the time la3eq I'm getting an ear full
[10:35] <la3eq> nice...
[10:35] <LeoBodnar> can you post the dl-fldigi screen shot?
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[10:36] <la3eq> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ust1s8ie1v5s04o/Screenshot%202014-02-10%2011.36.06.png
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[10:38] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[10:38] <DL1SGP> it is contesia
[10:39] <DL1SGP> not olivia :)
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> heh
[10:39] <LeoBodnar> and turn RxID as well while you are there
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[10:40] Nick change: jan -> Guest12683
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> Rv is off for USB
[10:41] <LeoBodnar> fsphil: This did not work for me but playing with external player did. "in dl-fldigi, go to File > Audio > Playback"
[10:42] <la3eq> Rv should be off???
[10:42] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: im not sure if th current distribution does resampling properly
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[10:44] <Prometheus> Can someone show me a properly decoded string?
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[10:46] <la3eq> DL1SGP: sorry about Olivia....have coreeced it, but still no decodingæ
[10:46] Geoff-G8DHE_ (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[10:46] <UpuWork> Prometheus http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/ept/_list/csv/payload_telemetry/flight_payload_time?include_docs=true&startkey=[%226f3521839fb0bd2c417c522a3818d4bc%22,%226f3521839fb0bd2c417c522a3808a56b%22]&endkey=[%226f3521839fb0bd2c417c522a3818d4bc%22,%226f3521839fb0bd2c417c522a3808a56b%22,[]]&fields=_sentence,_receivers,sentence_id,time,date,latitude,longitude,altitude,satellite
[10:46] <UpuWork> s,temperature_internal,battery
[10:46] <DL1SGP> la3eq: hey don't be sorry my friend, we are getting there :)
[10:47] <Prometheus> Ahhh wonderful Geoff helps a bunch
[10:47] <UpuWork> Geoff ? :)
[10:47] <DL1SGP> la3eq: have you turned RSID -> ON and RV -> OFF as suggested by LeoBodnar?
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[10:48] <Prometheus> oh sorry UpuWork!
[10:48] <Prometheus> ty
[10:48] <UpuWork> :)
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[10:49] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
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[10:49] <Prometheus> I wond if anyone has with and without preamp/filter waterfals I could see?
[10:50] <Prometheus> For a DVB-T dongle
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> Prometheus: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/B-38.png
[10:50] <la3eq> DL1SGP: Rv off, but what is rsid? (detector seaches entier passban) this is on
[10:51] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: ah, fldigi doesn't like files with the wrong sample rate. it assumes everything is 8khz
[10:51] <fsphil> I didn't check the samplerate before loading it
[10:52] <DL1SGP> that is fine then la3eq, your settings for RS-ID should look like this http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pliki/rsid.png
[10:52] <la3eq> now i got a good decod....green!!!!
[10:53] <x-f> Prometheus, http://i.imgur.com/czPjvJA.png
[10:53] <UpuWork> http://imgur.com/a/36aNu#0
[10:53] <la3eq> $$B-38,631,105005,140210,58.4366,8.491,8697,11,-26,1.37*7F1A
[10:53] <DL1SGP> woot la3eq!
[10:53] <fsphil> sweet
[10:54] <reb-www> :)
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[10:55] <UpuWork> I'll turn the APRS import off
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[10:59] <Prometheus> ok what's the op-mode supposed to be?
[11:01] <Prometheus> Contesa 8/1000?
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> good work la3eq !
[11:02] <LeoBodnar> yes Prometheus
[11:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Leo is B-38 Solar as well ?
[11:03] <la3eq> still waitinfg for my QTH to show up on map
[11:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes must be
[11:04] <Prometheus> Ok! Was still working the first file- later ons better now getting data thank you guys!
[11:04] <Prometheus> Ha this is fun :)
[11:05] <LeoBodnar> no it's not, just a AAA powered
[11:05] <DL1SGP> la3eq, it is showing
[11:06] <la3eq> ok...i see it only on "mobil trtacker".....will try some more updates
[11:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> Ah must just be temperarure then http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/6f3521839fb0bd2c417c522a3808a56b#g/battery,temperature_internal
[11:06] <UpuWork> you're on the map la3eq
[11:06] <DL1SGP> you might need to refresh snus-tracker (spacenear.us/tracker)
[11:06] <UpuWork> south of Stavanger
[11:07] <Prometheus> laq3eq thanks a bunch for the files! Let's me feel like I'm involved :)
[11:07] <DL1SGP> in Sirevag :)
[11:07] <Prometheus> Thanks Leo and Upu
[11:08] <Prometheus> First time I've had data relayed over the internet next I want to try a live relay
[11:08] <LeoBodnar> Prometheus: with long floating flights we had a lot of times a situation where the only receivers were people receiving live data via websdr or globaltuners remotely
[11:09] <Prometheus> awesome!
[11:10] <Prometheus> Perhaps TeamSpeak or mumble would be better for a live relay
[11:12] <UpuWork> Stick to IRC
[11:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/B-38_20140209/index.php?ind=4
[11:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> nICE FLOAT LeoBodnar
[11:13] <Prometheus> indeed
[11:14] <Prometheus> I know I'm a dreamer
[11:14] <Prometheus> lol
[11:14] <Prometheus> I want a global network
[11:16] <jarod> ah shiiit B-38 went near here... :P
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[11:16] <fsphil> missed it? :)
[11:16] <Prometheus> I'm working on the first node for a global network but I don't know if we can get enough interest to support one
[11:17] <fsphil> the network of spacenear receivers is pretty good now over europe and australia
[11:17] <fsphil> the US is a bit empty sadly
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[11:17] <Prometheus> GO Leo GO! :)
[11:18] <Prometheus> Yeah I hope we can change that
[11:18] <Prometheus> there are more than enough hams here to cover it
[11:18] <LeoBodnar> Run, B-38, run is more appropriate at that speed. hehe
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[11:19] <LeoBodnar> I would love to participate (financially) if we could get some stations set up around Europe
[11:19] <LeoBodnar> websdrs and globaltuners seem to switch off right when you need them most
[11:19] <Prometheus> hehe needs to put on the sneekers and streach it's legs
[11:20] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: you basically want to find a suitable embedded linux board and SDR combo that works well
[11:20] <LeoBodnar> but then a lot of Europe is well covered with human operators
[11:20] <LeoBodnar> Darkside: it's not usually a hardware that is a problem
[11:20] <Darkside> mm, deployment
[11:20] <Darkside> antnnas
[11:20] <Darkside> internet
[11:20] <Darkside> antennas*
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> or get ourselves a sat
[11:21] <Prometheus> I have a great tracking antenna set-up that uses cheap goto telescopes
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> would it work on Meade Prometheus ?
[11:21] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: would need a stupidly high sped downlink
[11:21] <Prometheus> yes sir
[11:21] <fsphil> yea websdr's use a lot of bits
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> cool
[11:22] <Prometheus> I use a Celestron but it works for meade too!
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> I was gong to re-purpose my telescope for that
[11:22] <fsphil> I'm selling an old celestron </plug>
[11:22] <Prometheus> I can actually opticaly track as well
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> nice
[11:23] <gonzo_> agh, I hate that phrase!
[11:23] <Prometheus> it uses GPS but it can lock on opticaly too
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> Meade had an optical tracker thing
[11:23] <Prometheus> if it "sees" the target
[11:23] <LeoBodnar> not sure how good it is, never tried it on non-celstial objects
[11:24] <Prometheus> a company call "optictracker" works with us on the project
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> which one gonzo_ ?
[11:24] <gonzo_> the re-purpose...... Sorry
[11:24] <Prometheus> http://www.optictracker.com/Home.html
[11:25] <LeoBodnar> hah it's an BS bingo entry
[11:25] <fsphil> ok, going forward we won't use it
[11:25] <gonzo_> were you insentivised to add it?
[11:25] Action: fsphil feels dirty
[11:25] <gonzo_> or eve spelt wit a 'c'
[11:25] <gonzo_> well, leave here alone phil!her
[11:26] <gonzo_> (vnc is extra sluggish today. So excuse the crappy typo's)
[11:26] <fsphil> is vnc ever fast?
[11:33] <Prometheus> fsphil is it a GT and is it a 60,70,80,144 ?
[11:33] <fsphil> what's that?
[11:33] <Prometheus> the Celestron
[11:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> Object Movie and KML for SP3OSJ flight http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/SP3OSJ_20140209/index.php?ind=2
[11:34] <Prometheus> Geoff I love your work!
[11:35] <fsphil> Prometheus: nexstar 925
[11:35] <fsphil> with the old fork mount
[11:35] <Prometheus> so it a cadroptic
[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> It a nice way to see the flights, I like the Pano's from Burst Point on the high flights myself, nut the OM make more sense for all the flights!
[11:36] <Prometheus> where you located fsphil?
[11:36] <fsphil> N.Ireland
[11:36] <fsphil> you're welcome to come collect it :)
[11:36] <Prometheus> lol careful you never know where I might pop up!
[11:37] <fsphil> I love the scope but I don't have dark enough skies anymore
[11:37] <Prometheus> Yeah I really understand that
[11:37] <fsphil> and it's too heavy to bring it out of the town at night
[11:37] <Prometheus> yep
[11:39] <fsphil> I get more use out of a teeny tiny refractor
[11:39] <Prometheus> You might want to try optictracker and track airplanes balloons and such
[11:39] <fsphil> would love to track a balloon with it
[11:39] <Prometheus> Oh man it would be great for that
[11:39] <fsphil> but usually the nearby launches are my own, and I don't have time :)
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[11:40] <fsphil> that said I could probably spot the local met launches
[11:40] <Prometheus> You might be supprised how far away you can see a balloon
[11:40] <Prometheus> FAR
[11:40] <fsphil> most launches are 500km from here :)
[11:40] <Prometheus> well not that far
[11:41] <Prometheus> lol
[11:41] <Prometheus> 100 miles
[11:41] <Prometheus> no sibot?
[11:41] <fsphil> I could see a launch in scotland then
[11:41] <Prometheus> mafbe 150
[11:41] <craag> Prometheus: We use miles too :)
[11:41] <fsphil> sadly
[11:41] <Prometheus> whew
[11:41] <Prometheus> lol
[11:42] <craag> heh
[11:42] <fsphil> 30 miles south of me they use km
[11:42] <Prometheus> all you need is GPS data the scope and optictracker do the rest
[11:42] <craag> I had a go at photographing balloons at distance with a long camera lens
[11:43] <craag> scintillation was the big factor
[11:43] <Prometheus> It takes a mighty expensive lens
[11:43] <LeoBodnar> scintillation?!
[11:44] <fsphil> cool name for an annoying effect
[11:44] <Prometheus> But it does work well if you can affors $15,000 for a lens
[11:44] <Prometheus> venyetting
[11:44] <Prometheus> spelling that nopr
[11:44] <LeoBodnar> it's usually from high energy particles
[11:44] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintillation_%28astronomy%29
[11:44] <Prometheus> ahh right
[11:45] <craag> LeoBodnar: That's what i was told it was. Atmospheric distortion I meant.
[11:45] <fsphil> the word has multiple meanings
[11:45] <Prometheus> but the $15,000 lenses really cut down on that
[11:45] <fsphil> measured with a Scintillometer :)
[11:45] <fsphil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintillometer
[11:45] <craag> https://plus.google.com/photos/111985625986161608212/albums/5930701264198130753
[11:46] <craag> ^^ Second attempt
[11:46] <LeoBodnar> oh, I am a physicist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintillation_(physics)
[11:46] <Prometheus> but a telescope works much better than an average telephoto
[11:46] <LeoBodnar> So was confused (naturally)
[11:46] <craag> ah I see
[11:46] <fsphil> well if someone launches in the south west of scotland on a clear day I'll have a go at imaging it :)
[11:47] <Prometheus> Well at CERN over there is's really a problem for them
[11:47] <craag> Prometheus: I've been offered use of the University's rather large telescope for next time :)
[11:48] <Prometheus> Optictracker would work on that too most likely
[11:48] <Prometheus> if it can take Meade input
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[11:48] <craag> Apparently it uses a rather old piece of unsupported control software
[11:48] <Prometheus> yeah
[11:49] <craag> So pointing it at a custom object is going to be hard
[11:49] <craag> But we'll see, need some launches first!
[11:50] <fsphil> oooh I should put that optical beacon I've been talking about on my next launch
[11:50] <craag> Prometheus: These: http://www.phys.soton.ac.uk/about/facilities
[11:50] <craag> fsphil: yes!
[11:51] <Prometheus> spank me!
[11:51] <Prometheus> lol
[11:51] <LeoBodnar> lol
[11:51] <fsphil> when east meets west
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[11:52] <Prometheus> I could get the guy's at optictracker to write some software to translate for that I bet they would jump on it
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[11:52] <Prometheus> easy enough to do most likely
[11:53] <Prometheus> But that scope might not mover very fast
[11:53] <fsphil> a balloon typically won't either
[11:54] <Prometheus> yeah but getting to the target in the first place
[11:54] <Prometheus> I'm sure they could compensate for that
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[11:55] <Prometheus> you don't wanna go with some new software on something like that tough I doubt they would go for it
[11:56] <Prometheus> but it sure is a nice scope
[11:56] <Prometheus> :)
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[12:10] <LeoBodnar> SP9UOB has kindly sent me a Vaisala radiosonde. Have they been reused for something useful?
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[12:12] <Prometheus> I have used the preamp section and anyenna they are great for that
[12:13] <Prometheus> Which one did he send you
[12:13] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: which model
[12:13] <Darkside> i did some work on the RS92SGPW's years ago
[12:13] <mattbrejza> the one with the QFH for the gps antenna?
[12:14] <Darkside> mattbrejza: a few of them have that
[12:14] <Prometheus> Yeah Darkside has a great breakdown if it's an SGP
[12:14] <mattbrejza> the most useful thing if you could work it out would probably be the sensors stick thing
[12:14] <Darkside> yp
[12:15] <Darkside> if you can figure th sensor packag out that'd be grand
[12:15] <LeoBodnar> it's like the one on the right http://projecthorus.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/IMG_32611.jpg
[12:15] <DL7AD> la3eq: good job ;)
[12:15] <Darkside> woo, SGPW
[12:15] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: lol
[12:15] <Darkside> project horus link :P
[12:15] <Darkside> i think myself and projct horus fature quite high whn you search for vaisala radisondes
[12:15] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: http://rfhead.net/?p=56
[12:15] <Prometheus> Yeah they work great with Sondemonitor software
[12:16] <Darkside> i have a bunch of other working out too
[12:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tracking the Cambourne flight at the moment
[12:16] <LeoBodnar> cool, I'll read up on them.
[12:16] <Prometheus> There are a few things you need to know about them
[12:16] <Darkside> you cant push them into the ham band unfortunately
[12:16] <Darkside> unless you can figure out how the PLL chip works (its custom silicon)
[12:17] <Prometheus> They will automaticly reduce power after a certian amount of time if you do not reste them
[12:17] <Prometheus> reset
[12:17] <Darkside> i could push mine to 420.050MHz, but it was on the edg of the PLL limits, so only did about 1mW
[12:17] <Darkside> also probably pushing the output filter a bit too
[12:18] <Prometheus> Yeah you timed out the power timer
[12:18] <LeoBodnar> 16.3676MHz very unusual frequncy
[12:18] <Prometheus> it should be on 409 Mhz
[12:19] <Darkside> Prometheus: depends where in the world you are
[12:19] <Darkside> around here its 400-403MHz
[12:19] <LeoBodnar> it's usually 16.368MHz
[12:19] <Darkside> oh
[12:19] <Darkside> it might be
[12:19] <Prometheus> the ones I've been able to get where also 400mhz range
[12:20] <Laurenceb_> yo
[12:20] <Laurenceb_> did SP3OSJ battery die?
[12:21] <Darkside> dammit, i cant find my RS92SGPW
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[12:21] <Darkside> its in a box, but i cant find th ebox lol
[12:22] <Prometheus> yeah Darkside they will reduce power over time and you have to reset them to get them to go full power again
[12:22] <Darkside> Prometheus: this wasnt that
[12:22] <Laurenceb_> different APRS frequency over Norway?
[12:22] <Darkside> Prometheus: this was because i was on the edge of the PLL lock range
[12:23] <Darkside> and possibly pushing into the output filter skirts
[12:23] <Prometheus> right I understand that
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[12:23] <Prometheus> I did some experiments along with you back in 2009 actually
[12:23] <Prometheus> your article helped a lot!
[12:24] <Prometheus> Actually the SGP is an awesome piece of work
[12:24] <fsphil> would their method of GPS relaying work on a slower baud rate signal?
[12:24] <Darkside> maybe
[12:24] <Darkside> well, yes
[12:24] <Darkside> it would just mean less time btween updates
[12:24] <Darkside> im not sure how much data you need to send for what accuracy
[12:25] <fsphil> yes smaller samples
[12:25] <fsphil> would it work out cheaper?
[12:25] <fsphil> it may end up being as much cost as a full gps unit
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[12:26] <Darkside> yeah, in small quantities anyway
[12:26] <Prometheus> In fact our first flight used an SGP back in 2007 when we got started in all this
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[12:26] <Prometheus> We used and SGP and sondemonitor
[12:26] <Darkside> Prometheus: hah so did one of ours
[12:26] <Prometheus> :)
[12:26] <Darkside> not that it was particularly legal to do so >_>
[12:26] <Prometheus> well yeah we where beginners
[12:26] <fsphil> your secret is safe with us on this public internet chat room
[12:27] <Darkside> lol
[12:27] <Darkside> HI BOM
[12:27] <Darkside> HI NSA
[12:27] <Prometheus> I think the satute of limitations is up on that
[12:27] <Darkside> oh wait, everything i say in here gets indexed by google doesnt it
[12:27] <Darkside> crap
[12:27] <nats`> Nobody expects the Chineese agent of the NSA !
[12:27] <Prometheus> lol
[12:28] <Vostok> did you know that the statement "nobody expects the spanish inquisition" is false?
[12:28] <fsphil> the next netsplit is probably caused by GHCQ
[12:28] <Darkside> their 2 main weapons are surprise, fear, and rutheless..
[12:28] <fsphil> Vostok: yea, people got a warning :)
[12:28] <Prometheus> hahaha
[12:28] <Vostok> the inquisition always gave you a 30 days notice
[12:28] <Darkside> our 3 main weapons are fear, surprise, rutheless efficiency and an almost..
[12:28] <Vostok> fsphil: yeah
[12:28] <Darkside> our FOUR main weapons
[12:28] <Darkside> (etc...)
[12:28] <fsphil> the things you learn on QI
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[12:29] <Prometheus> fear is your best wepon and at the same time worst enemy
[12:29] <Vostok> indeed. and one in thousand of them you actually remember
[12:29] <Vostok> :)
[12:29] <Darkside> WORSHIP THEM
[12:29] <Prometheus> we are not worthy
[12:29] <brainles71> what are you guys on about?
[12:29] <Prometheus> lol
[12:29] <Darkside> (somthing involving cats)
[12:29] <Prometheus> hahaha
[12:30] <Darkside> i think it was in one of the J eps
[12:30] <brainles71> best conversation of randomness to walk in on
[12:30] <Prometheus> I cant stay serious all the time!
[12:30] <Prometheus> rule 69
[12:31] <Darkside> brainles71: hello bruce
[12:31] <Prometheus> 62
[12:31] <Prometheus> lol
[12:31] <nats`> Vostok I didn't know but anyway monthy python are always true so I don't expect the spanish inquisition :D
[12:31] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUVBXb4XIqE
[12:31] <brainles71> Darkside: Im ben :)
[12:31] <brainles71> haha
[12:31] <Darkside> that could be a bit awkward, would you mind if we called you bruce to clear up some confusion
[12:32] <brainles71> haha sure thing let me just start filling out the forms
[12:33] <brainles71> ill change my name just for #highaltitude
[12:33] <Darkside> haha
[12:33] <Darkside> sorry, more monty python jokes
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[12:34] <nats`> Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise....
[12:34] <fsphil> oh no not again
[12:34] <nats`> I'll come in again :D
[12:35] <Darkside> get.. the comfy chair!
[12:35] <fsphil> well I wasn't expecting that
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[12:42] <Prometheus> lol that youtube was great
[12:43] <nats`> Darkside you think you are strong because you can survive the soft cushions ?
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[12:43] <Prometheus> IF you can survive looking in the mirror you fine
[12:43] <Prometheus> always
[12:44] <Prometheus> :)
[12:44] <nats`> ok enough monty python joke brian this is life !
[12:45] <Darkside> cheer up nats`, you know what they say
[12:45] <Darkside> some thing online are bad, they can really make you mad
[12:45] <Prometheus> ok what are we dong constructive?
[12:45] <Darkside> other things just make you swear and curse
[12:46] <nats`> we should write that down hundred time by the sunrise or they'll cut our balls off :)
[12:46] <Prometheus> I got the 38-B data that was cool
[12:46] <daveake> Look, you've got it all wrong! You've got to think for your selves! You're ALL individuals!
[12:46] <nats`> time for boring meeting this little monthy python session made me happy
[12:46] <Darkside> We're all individuals!
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[12:46] <daveake> :)
[12:46] <Darkside> I'm not
[12:46] <daveake> I'm not
[12:46] <daveake> damn
[12:46] <Darkside> :P
[12:46] <Prometheus> :P
[12:46] <Prometheus> lol
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[12:47] <Prometheus> I was pretty happy talking about the SGP sondes
[12:47] <nats`> Don't you oppress me.
[12:48] <Prometheus> I really admire their value
[12:48] <LeoBodnar> What HABbing ever done for us?
[12:48] <Prometheus> freedom?
[12:48] <Geoff-G8DHE> Any info on the M10 Sondes they appear to use a GPS unit rather than relay the data
[12:49] <Prometheus> I know Sondemonitor could not decode tham at the time
[12:49] <Prometheus> let me check that
[12:49] <nats`> Leo's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy. Now, piss off!
[12:49] <nats`> :D
[12:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> It does now under the M2/K2 modem
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[12:50] <Prometheus> Woah that's new!
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> Copying the Brest flight at the moment but poorly
[12:50] <Prometheus> Lot's of them on ebay
[12:51] <Prometheus> we need a really neet sonde for hab work
[12:51] <Prometheus> the perfect payload
[12:52] <Prometheus> an open source one
[12:52] <nats`> there is perfect in yoru sentence
[12:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> I thought they were more recent but there not listed on the Vaisala site
[12:52] <nats`> making it total nonsense ;)
[12:52] <nats`> making dedicated payload to what they need to do seems a better idea
[12:53] <nats`> usually making everything means making everything not so well
[12:53] <Prometheus> I cant even pay attension right now I have no cents
[12:53] <Prometheus> lol
[12:54] <Prometheus> The SGP is a good example to follow
[12:54] <Prometheus> very refined product
[12:57] <Prometheus> Sondemonitor is also some very good software
[12:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> difficult to run multipile copies, odd file namimg convention its a pain to automate as well :-(
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[12:59] <Prometheus> What's that Geoff?
[12:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> SM
[12:59] <Prometheus> Yeah well we could improve on that for sure
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[13:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> It keeps files open, then collects data in a file named by time, when it gets the serial number it starts a new file rather than renaming the old silly little things
[13:00] <Prometheus> I'm thinking about an open source project
[13:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its sorting out the various decoding needed thats fiddly I guess the rest is a decent GUI
[13:01] <Prometheus> yeah it presents the data pretty well
[13:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Hoping there might be a new release soon, he has taken several feature requests on-board it seems
[13:01] <Prometheus> loading the maps is really a pain
[13:01] <Prometheus> but we have better ways of doing that now
[13:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> Indeed, why not plot on one of the API's
[13:02] <Prometheus> right
[13:02] <fsphil> sondemonitor isn't ideal
[13:02] <Prometheus> we can do moving map now no problem
[13:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> I suspect its grown over time like lots of software and needs a complete re-write
[13:02] <fsphil> the guy did do an amazing job decyphering the signal though
[13:02] <Prometheus> no but it does do a lot in one package
[13:03] <Prometheus> For sure and I imagine he had help with that
[13:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thats the main thing and difficult to repeat as well!
[13:03] <Prometheus> I cant see breaking that code without mucho work
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[13:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> Even he admits that the calibration is still quesionable but it looks reasonable
[13:04] <Prometheus> But we can use whatever code we want :0
[13:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> anyway AFk for lunch
[13:04] <Prometheus> enjoy!
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[13:09] <Prometheus> By the way Leo the one on the left is a newer RS-80 model
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[13:09] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[13:10] <Lunar_LanderU> lecture time :)
[13:10] <Prometheus> hey LL
[13:10] <brainles71> what are you lecturing on today LL?
[13:10] <Prometheus> I'm all ears whats up?
[13:11] <oh7bd> Pitty I lost SP3OSJ while at work. Either my PC went asleep or the bat level of the balloon got too low.
[13:12] <Prometheus> I missed that one oh7bd
[13:14] <la9gta> seens that something is appearing in my waterfall could it be B-38?
[13:14] <oh7bd> Just refer to the SP3OSJ balloon from this morning, heading up North. I should have heard it for much longer.
[13:15] <x-f> oh7bd, most likely its batt went low, i saw on logtail that its two last transmissions had the same time value
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[13:19] <Prometheus> was there an aprs for it?
[13:19] <x-f> RTTY only on this one
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[13:20] <Prometheus> thanks yeah I'm out luck there-
[13:22] <LeoBodnar> B-38 suffers from KT5TK-4itis
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[13:23] <Laurenceb_> lack of receivers?
[13:23] <LeoBodnar> no, lack of speed
[13:28] <Prometheus> ok well I'm done for the day you guy's enjoy rest of your 73's over and out
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[13:29] <LeoBodnar> see you later Prometheus !
[13:30] <ottokleiber> what is the balloon
[13:30] <UpuWork> 36" Foil balloon
[13:31] <UpuWork> http://randomsolutions.co.uk/Random_Aerospace/Balloons_files/Silver36inFoilBalloon.jpg
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[13:32] <mr_grey> and the B-38 is only transmitting rtty?
[13:33] <ottokleiber> and so it has not much lift, so a small tracker?
[13:34] <DL1SGP> it is transmitting Contesia and APRS, the tracker should weight <25g not sure about the batteries used
[13:34] <OH7HJ> Good that OH7BD caught the last signals. My Rx did not catch, although the balloon passed from same distance. That is because of my low aerals.
[13:34] <DL1SGP> they are the biggest factor on weight
[13:34] <UpuWork> AAA Energizer Lithium I suspecxt
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[13:34] <keydash> hello
[13:34] <UpuWork> it will be less than 25g
[13:34] <DL1SGP> hi keydash
[13:34] <UpuWork> probably 15g or less
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[13:34] <DL1SGP> indeed Upu :)
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[13:36] <DL1SGP> ottokleiber: you can get an impression of dimensions and such by going through the past flights of Leo http://leobodnar.com/balloons/ not all use the same setup but the overall idea is the same
[13:37] <ottokleiber> like a stick of gum
[13:37] <ottokleiber> i made a 5g tracker design for birds for a film unit, but it did not have to do as much
[13:38] <ottokleiber> this looks interesting
[13:38] <UpuWork> tracker itself is <3g
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[13:40] <ottokleiber> yes but with battery and solar and so on
[13:40] <ottokleiber> always weight more than a 1cm x 1cm flexpcb :)
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[13:45] <UpuWork> flex PCB is my next of interest thing :)
[13:46] <ottokleiber> it is what it is, nothing special
[13:46] <ottokleiber> flex is useful if flex is useful (for the birds yes) but often cannot do such small traces and features
[13:46] <ottokleiber> light for a hab, but if pcb <3g is it really needed?
[13:47] <UpuWork> probably not
[13:47] <ottokleiber> it can still easily do 8mil+ traces though which probably is ok for most amateur pcb
[13:48] <UpuWork> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PAVA9/01%20-%20v3sg93U.jpg
[13:48] <UpuWork> 6mil on there
[13:48] <ottokleiber> less than that good for fpga fanout but otherwise trouble!
[13:48] <UpuWork> note snap off programming header saves 0.5g :)
[13:48] <ottokleiber> does not look like it need to be 6mil there though
[13:48] <ottokleiber> they are not that close
[13:48] <UpuWork> it does on some bits
[13:49] <ottokleiber> for fpga fanout i sometime had 3 mil traces to 4mil drill holes. start to get yeild problem on pcb at chinese fabs
[13:49] <ottokleiber> changed to a europe pcb fab, was fine
[13:50] <ottokleiber> but more expensive
[13:50] <UpuWork> yeah I get these made in China
[13:50] <UpuWork> its pretty cheap
[13:50] <ottokleiber> has got very easier in last 5 years
[13:50] <ottokleiber> a very good thing
[13:50] <UpuWork> yeah just checked they are 6mil
[13:50] <UpuWork> 0.15mm
[13:51] <ottokleiber> so do peoples here talk mostly balloons?
[13:51] <ottokleiber> any rockets or quads?
[13:51] <UpuWork> generally yes
[13:51] <UpuWork> but anything high altitude
[13:51] <UpuWork> and/or radio gets discussed alot
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[13:51] <UpuWork> as most of us are radio hams too
[13:51] <ottokleiber> there is much overlapping amateur radio / ukhas?
[13:51] <ottokleiber> would make the sense
[13:51] <UpuWork> lots
[13:52] <UpuWork> but oddly in the UK we aren't permitted to launch using our licenses
[13:52] <UpuWork> we have to use the ISM bands
[13:52] <ottokleiber> like 434 10mW?
[13:52] <UpuWork> yep
[13:53] <ottokleiber> i think that is ism in all the world :)
[13:53] <ottokleiber> i could use it for migrating birds
[13:53] <Darkside> not all of it i think
[13:53] <UpuWork> its not actually
[13:53] <x-f> except USA and India, and
[13:53] <UpuWork> in the States in theory you need your license
[13:53] <ottokleiber> they are difficult because they birds don't respect regional broadcast laws
[13:53] <ottokleiber> i try to reason with them, they don't listen
[13:53] <Darkside> lol
[13:53] <qyx_> hmm, b38 will be crossing my favorite bergen-oslo railway \o/
[13:53] <mfa298> only ITU region 1 has ISM on 434.
[13:53] <UpuWork> lol
[13:54] <Darkside> mfa298: parts of 3 do too!
[13:54] <Darkside> >_>
[13:54] <ottokleiber> does anyone here do rocket? I used to do rocket, it was interesting. Don't know about altitude records
[13:54] <mfa298> someone needs to update wikipedia then
[13:54] <fsphil> I'll put a 434mhz beacon on a european swift, just as soon as they come back from africa
[13:55] <Darkside> fsphil: european swallow?
[13:55] <Darkside> what is the flight velocity of a tracker-laden swallow?
[13:55] <mfa298> Ni
[13:55] <Prometheus> oh heck I'll bite one more time yes I do rockets
[13:55] <Prometheus> Rockoons even
[13:56] <Maxell> qyx_: :o hhehe
[13:56] <ottokleiber> Prometheus: cool
[13:56] <ottokleiber> what sort of size and altitudes?
[13:56] <Prometheus> So far only 126 gram H impluse to avoind conflicts with the FAA
[13:56] <qyx_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ7LORizfZg
[13:56] <qyx_> you can watch \o/
[13:56] <ottokleiber> rockoon is rocket from balloon?
[13:57] <qyx_> 4 hour journey
[13:57] <Prometheus> But we have an N to N two stage we are working on for July
[13:57] <qyx_> but first half only
[13:57] <Prometheus> all the way into spcce
[13:57] <ottokleiber> Prometheus: from balloon?
[13:57] <Prometheus> We have a rocket plane secheduled for April
[13:58] <Prometheus> Yes we don't waste money launching from the ground
[13:58] <ottokleiber> is not range safety difficult with rockoon?
[13:58] <ottokleiber> compared to ground launch
[13:58] <Prometheus> depends
[13:58] <ottokleiber> because of potantial long float over ground to launch altitudes
[13:59] <Prometheus> we launch the big stuff over the gulf of mexico
[13:59] <ottokleiber> sorry for my english, it's is mostly read only, writing is harder
[13:59] <Prometheus> np problem
[13:59] <ottokleiber> you have boat for gulf of mexico launches?
[13:59] <Prometheus> I was about to fall alseep when I saw your post
[13:59] <Prometheus> our team is international
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[14:00] <Prometheus> Yes 2 boats
[14:00] <ottokleiber> also must be a big balloon to hoist N-N! From what I remember, they cases and reloads are maybe 10kg?
[14:00] <Prometheus> check out Team Prometheus Facebook page and find many photos
[14:01] <Prometheus> We have 170,000 cft balloon fot that launch precisely
[14:01] <ottokleiber> is not boat more expensive then 100km-from-ground big reload?
[14:01] <ottokleiber> boat + balloon
[14:01] <ottokleiber> 'reload' i guess maybe single-use, like big old solid some sounding rocket use
[14:01] <Prometheus> you thorw the balloon overboard and inflate it in the water
[14:02] <Prometheus> Yes we have actually a Q Implise reloadable booster
[14:02] <adamgreig> Q, what
[14:02] <ottokleiber> is that enough?
[14:03] <adamgreig> Q is pretty sizable! who even makes those?
[14:03] <adamgreig> largest I've seen that even have reloads are Os?
[14:03] <Prometheus> turn down you volume control http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYG__m_MFYc
[14:03] <ottokleiber> i did some sums for sounding rocket to take useful (10kg?) experiment to 100km, needed about S class (500kNs?) solid
[14:04] <ottokleiber> adamgreig: cesaroni will sell you S, it's fine
[14:04] <Prometheus> Yes big solids from the ground huge waste of money IMO
[14:04] <ottokleiber> big for amateur but fine for sounder rocket
[14:04] <Prometheus> Right too dangerous really and expensive
[14:04] <adamgreig> ottokleiber: but S with reloads?
[14:04] <Maxell> Hmm, looks like B-38 is going more west
[14:04] <ottokleiber> so liquid from ground instead?
[14:05] <Prometheus> if your shooting for space yes
[14:05] <ottokleiber> adamgreig: i think you buy it cast into housing, i thinks
[14:05] <ottokleiber> you add fins and payload section on top, in shortness
[14:05] <adamgreig> heh
[14:06] <Prometheus> I'd love to continue my friend but I am shot for today :)
[14:06] <Prometheus> Just want to say hi and yes we do rockets
[14:06] <Prometheus> :)
[14:06] <adamgreig> good luck with the rockoons :P
[14:06] <ottokleiber> good to talk
[14:07] <ottokleiber> i think solid might be cheapetr to get to space just to get there
[14:07] <Prometheus> Yes that is our main goal make rockoon popular
[14:07] <ottokleiber> liquid is development program
[14:07] <ottokleiber> $$$
[14:07] <Prometheus> they are the cheapest way to spce without doubt
[14:08] <Prometheus> I am developing a Peroxide.Kero engine but it will be a good wile
[14:08] <ottokleiber> anyone else here do rocket?
[14:08] <ottokleiber> this interesting
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> ottokleiber: Where are you?
[14:09] <ottokleiber> austria
[14:10] <ottokleiber> Prometheus: peroxide/kero hypergolic, if peroxide decompost?
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[14:11] <Prometheus> no
[14:11] <ottokleiber> it does not autoignition?
[14:12] <Prometheus> but peroxide thinocynate new catalist
[14:12] <Prometheus> hot emough to ignite kero
[14:12] <ottokleiber> is not just silver hot enough to ignite kero?
[14:13] <ottokleiber> at 90+% concetrate?
[14:13] <LeoBodnar> 434 is not allowed in China as well
[14:13] <ottokleiber> on the perox
[14:13] <Prometheus> not low grade peroxide no
[14:13] <Prometheus> HTP too much trouble
[14:13] <ottokleiber> we got some for different use
[14:13] <Prometheus> 50-70% much easier to deal with
[14:13] <ottokleiber> maybe you need to be company
[14:14] <ottokleiber> 50-70% surely too weak for any good isp?
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[14:14] <Prometheus> Aeronautic Enterprises Inc.
[14:14] <ottokleiber> what is that?
[14:14] <Prometheus> Team Prometheus non-profit team
[14:14] <Prometheus> ANEI is for profit
[14:14] <ottokleiber> i used to work in chemical labs, we had history of experiments and good facilties for when supplier inspect
[14:15] <ottokleiber> never any problem to buy
[14:15] <Prometheus> my company :)
[14:15] <Prometheus> Check out teamprometheus.org and join our team if your interested
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[14:16] <Prometheus> we have meeting on TeamSpeak every Wed and Sat at 8:pm CST
[14:16] <ottokleiber> i don't like distribute teams
[14:16] <ottokleiber> never works
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[14:16] <ottokleiber> need 5 smart people in same room with facilities
[14:16] <ottokleiber> work happen like 10x faster
[14:16] <Prometheus> yes 7 years so far
[14:17] <Prometheus> but we are now very near
[14:17] <LeoBodnar> Prometheus what are you using for rocket telemetry?
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[14:17] <Prometheus> Also 10 times faster require 10 times more money
[14:17] <ottokleiber> well, it rarely work
[14:17] <ottokleiber> yes, need funding
[14:17] <ottokleiber> funding and range permissions are usually harder problem to solve than engineering
[14:18] <ottokleiber> if you can do math, engineering fine
[14:18] <Prometheus> Our telemetry is 433 Mhz sereal modem
[14:18] <LeoBodnar> *I ma declaring vested interest in rocket telemetry
[14:18] <Prometheus> 900 Mhz video
[14:18] <ottokleiber> + someone who can weld. they are always useful
[14:18] <ottokleiber> LeoBodnar: you do rocket?
[14:18] <LeoBodnar> what is for GPS?
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[14:18] <Prometheus> GPS is expensive Novetel
[14:19] <LeoBodnar> not officially
[14:19] <Prometheus> Novtel
[14:19] <ottokleiber> unoffical rocket?
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[14:19] <Prometheus> No limits on speed or altitude
[14:19] <LeoBodnar> ok, thanks for the info
[14:19] <Prometheus> 50 hz
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> how heavy is it?
[14:20] <Prometheus> the gps module?
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[14:20] <Prometheus> 250g
[14:20] <UpuWork> haha
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> oh
[14:21] <UpuWork> bet you can't buy them out of the States either
[14:21] <Prometheus> you don't need it for balloons though
[14:21] <ottokleiber> you can with right paperwork
[14:21] <SpeedEvil> Depends what's on the ballon.
[14:21] <ottokleiber> i sis for something
[14:21] <Prometheus> I have another hot ticket for you though :)
[14:21] <ottokleiber> they not so impressive, just can charge premium as not much compete at that level
[14:22] <Prometheus> the new swift piksi
[14:22] <ottokleiber> it can be not so hard to make gps receiver
[14:22] <ottokleiber> 70's technology
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[14:22] <Prometheus> open source GPS module
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[14:22] <LeoBodnar> is it heavier than 3g with battery?
[14:23] <Prometheus> http://swift-nav.com/piksi.html
[14:23] <adamgreig> don't ask questions only to show off :P
[14:23] <ottokleiber> i saw that piksi
[14:23] <UpuWork> oh LeoBodnar
[14:23] <UpuWork> I have a working 6T board now
[14:23] <ottokleiber> it looks like normal gps but without locks
[14:23] <UpuWork> did you want some raw data out of it ?
[14:23] <LeoBodnar> oh that one, nice but heavvy
[14:23] <Prometheus> that is the new hot ticket
[14:23] <adamgreig> ottokleiber: aiui the firmware should manage reasonably serious dynamics
[14:23] <ottokleiber> can it track with high acceleration?
[14:23] <LeoBodnar> yeah, that would be nice UpuWork
[14:24] <adamgreig> well beyond a normal gps
[14:24] <UpuWork> its not really its a niche application
[14:24] <Prometheus> you can change the programing
[14:24] <ottokleiber> that would be interesting for rocket
[14:24] <adamgreig> in the mists of time it was designed for a rockoon
[14:24] <ottokleiber> it seems most gps can be unlocked with restrictions, but dynamical performance still pants
[14:24] <adamgreig> ottokleiber: yea, this is designed originally for rockets
[14:24] <UpuWork> I'll bring it home with me tonight
[14:24] <ottokleiber> all phase locked loop for signal tracking, not good if acceleration changes a lot
[14:24] <ottokleiber> ... 70s technology
[14:25] <Prometheus> you do need to open the loops to get high speed data
[14:25] <LeoBodnar> current weight budget is 3g for all the electronics
[14:25] <ottokleiber> but if you open that phase locked loop, position get worse
[14:26] <Prometheus> are you guy's having any problems with GPS for ballooning?
[14:26] <ottokleiber> seems like the ugly solution
[14:26] <ottokleiber> i read up on this a few years ago, might have changed all since then
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[14:26] <LeoBodnar> yeas, to much POWERRRRR
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> it's Europe
[14:26] <Prometheus> Ahhhhh ok that is a different problem
[14:27] <ottokleiber> ah low power gps. that could be interesting
[14:27] <Prometheus> The SGP sonde solves that in an interesting way
[14:27] <Prometheus> :)
[14:27] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[14:27] <ottokleiber> if you have very good onboard clock, could collect just small sample of the rf at infrequently times
[14:27] <Prometheus> that is your only real solution there
[14:28] <Prometheus> ;)
[14:28] <ottokleiber> and then process it on low power micro
[14:28] <ottokleiber> i did wonder this for the bird track
[14:28] <Prometheus> actually for rockets we only need the velesoty vector
[14:28] <ottokleiber> but not enough time and I not enthusiastic enough about birds
[14:28] <ottokleiber> was a consult job to pay some bills
[14:28] <Prometheus> we can derive the rest from strap down IMU
[14:28] <LeoBodnar> they are picky customers
[14:29] <Prometheus> pretty much have to use FOG's or RLG
[14:29] <ottokleiber> i don't believe mems imu and vel vector good enough to tell height to more than a few km voer 100km
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[14:30] <Prometheus> yep like I said Fiber optic or ring laser gyros
[14:30] <ottokleiber> yeah, if you can get accurate velocity and have RLG, easy
[14:30] <ottokleiber> but $$$ for the rlg!
[14:30] <Prometheus> exactly
[14:30] <Prometheus> so you want an open GPS
[14:30] <ottokleiber> and from where you get accurate velocity?
[14:30] <ottokleiber> ah the gps
[14:30] <ottokleiber> ok
[14:31] <Prometheus> I'm no playin
[14:31] <Prometheus> lol
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[14:31] <ottokleiber> it still need the lock though itself to get velocity from the sattelite doppler, as it need to knows the sattelite position
[14:31] <ottokleiber> so might aswell just be use the gps
[14:31] <ottokleiber> ?
[14:32] <Prometheus> I might get slaped by ITAR
[14:32] <Prometheus> lol
[14:32] <Prometheus> we are working on an optical IMU
[14:32] <ottokleiber> if itar stop you use it for gps, it surely also not allow doppler velocity
[14:33] <ottokleiber> i would just build gps receiver
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[14:33] <ottokleiber> surely easier than rlg and optical imu (what even is?)
[14:33] <Prometheus> well we can use it but it cost $15,000 USD
[14:34] <Prometheus> That's not so much a problem if where only needed for one
[14:34] <Prometheus> but these things have a habit of crashing
[14:34] <ottokleiber> build diy gps receiver :)
[14:34] <Prometheus> so testing would be very expensive
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[14:35] <Prometheus> Exactly
[14:35] <Prometheus> the tech is just now getting down to us
[14:35] <Prometheus> I'm not a great programmer
[14:35] <ottokleiber> if can be on rocket not balloon, less power limits
[14:35] <ottokleiber> the tech has been available decades
[14:35] <ottokleiber> it just wide spectrum phased modulate
[14:35] <Prometheus> not for a non programmer like me
[14:36] <ottokleiber> there must be tutorial
[14:36] <ottokleiber> it is simple digital signal processing compared to like wifi or phone
[14:36] <Prometheus> perhaps someone else has the time but too many things involved in a real space program for one guy
[14:36] <Prometheus> :)
[14:37] <ottokleiber> you need to be john carmack lol :)
[14:37] <craag> ottokleiber: Have you seen Ed's gps talk from the UKHAS conference?
[14:37] <Prometheus> well I don't wanna talk about Carmack
[14:37] <Prometheus> ok
[14:37] <ottokleiber> craag: no
[14:37] <ottokleiber> ed?
[14:37] <Prometheus> :)
[14:37] <ottokleiber> i do not know of ukhas conference
[14:37] <ottokleiber> sound interesting
[14:38] <Prometheus> Or Dave Masten or Elon or Besos
[14:38] <craag> http://batc.tv/ => Film Archive => HAB 2013 Category => GPS Part 1,2,3
[14:38] <ottokleiber> where is there info about conference>?
[14:38] <ottokleiber> i should probably go. it after 3.30 in vienna
[14:39] <Prometheus> nice to meet you
[14:39] <ottokleiber> i am not working, on some randoms web proxy for freenode
[14:39] <ottokleiber> should do 2 more hours work today!
[14:39] <Prometheus> I'm way past overtime
[14:39] <craag> This was last years: http://ukhas.org.uk/general:ukhasconference2013
[14:39] <Prometheus> have a good day!
[14:39] <adamgreig> see you Prometheus
[14:39] <ottokleiber> craag: i shall watch it larer, thank you
[14:40] <ottokleiber> Prometheus: good to chat with you
[14:40] <ottokleiber> thank you for interesting rocket talk
[14:40] <Prometheus> again I hope
[14:40] <ottokleiber> yes
[14:40] <Prometheus> godspeed young man
[14:40] <ottokleiber> if is late/early for you?
[14:40] <ottokleiber> in the usa?
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[14:40] <Prometheus> late way beyond late for me
[14:41] <Prometheus> now 20hrs day
[14:41] <Prometheus> but it is morning again here
[14:41] <ottokleiber> sleep! i go now. thanks and have a fine day
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[14:41] <Prometheus> 73's to all again
[14:42] <DL1SGP> 73 Prometheus
[14:42] <craag> 73s
[14:43] <DL1SGP> Hej Brian, hope you enjoyed the tracking :)
[14:44] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi, it was not easy, but handover to LA3EQ this morning went well
[14:45] <DL1SGP> yup I saw that, great work :)
[14:45] <Hix> Not sure how this compares to Rockblock's rates but thought it could be worth sharing http://www.rapidmedia.com/kayaking/categories/gear/item/2417-delormes-new-pay-as-you-go-plan.html
[14:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> did sp3osj run out of batt or trackers?
[14:46] <DL7AD> OZ1SKY_Brian: yep
[14:46] <craag> (battery)
[14:46] <DL7AD> and powering the gps just with solar, is not enough
[14:47] <OZ1SKY_Brian> what a shame, it could have won the artic challenge
[14:47] <craag> Solar at this time of year at that latitude is hard.
[14:47] <DL1SGP> somebody should send up a squirrel to put in a new battery :)
[14:47] <DL1SGP> yeah, north is quite dark
[14:48] <craag> The last of Leo's trackers that went up that way was in night mode at midday iirc
[14:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> looks like LA3EQ lost B-38
[14:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> la3eq Did you loose it Jan ?
[14:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> la9gta Hej. do you hear B-38 ?
[14:52] <DL1SGP> gladly it is still heard through APRS so we know it's still alive :)
[14:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yep
[14:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> someone should enable aprs again on the tracker
[14:54] <DL1SGP> if Upu is around he will do so I think
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[15:01] <la3eq> B-38b very weak now
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[15:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> la3eq Hej Jan. Yes its was pretty weak here too. Did la9gta hear anything?
[15:02] <Reb-SM3ULC> record in slowness flight again?
[15:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah its not mooving very fast
[15:02] <Reb-SM3ULC> leo must have the record for longest flight over .uk teritory?
[15:03] <Reb-SM3ULC> amybe next level of competition.. fly to a country and stay... ;)
[15:04] <UpuWork> APRS re-enabled
[15:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> UpuWork thanks
[15:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> UpuWork any reason why the tracker cant show the telemetri data ?
[15:05] <DL1SGP1> Thanks UpuWork, you rock.
[15:05] <OZ1SKY_Brian> from the aprs signal
[15:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Looks Airspy is progressing http://airspy.com/
[15:06] <la3eq> oz1sky hi, i do not know---b-38 is too weak for decoding...but it's still aloft :)
[15:06] <UpuWork> just the script that does it
[15:06] <UpuWork> isn't set to parse the log data
[15:07] <Lunar_LanderU> brainles71: ah I was listening to a lecture on Raman spectroscopy
[15:07] <brainles71> oh cool!
[15:07] <DL1SGP1> Guten Tag Kevin
[15:07] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
[15:07] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[15:07] <Lunar_LanderU> hallo
[15:07] <brainles71> does any one know if there is a way to export a parts list from Altium?
[15:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> UpuWork ok i see, then we´ll have to check the batt via aprs.fi
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[15:08] <la3eq> $$B-38?740U150605,140210,59.4361,8.7127@854J,92-<7,I.3*072
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[15:08] <Lunar_LanderU> damn, SP3OSJ not active anymore?
[15:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> B-38 current: Vbatt: 1.302 V, Vsolar: 0 V, Temp: -37.000 C, Sats: 9, Acc: 8 m
[15:08] <DL7AD> Lunar_LanderU: i think its still transmitting. but without gps
[15:08] <Lunar_LanderU> damn
[15:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> la3eq someone should wake la9gta up :-)
[15:09] <Lunar_LanderU> just 300 km before the polar circle
[15:11] <OZ1SKY_Brian> la3eq or do you know any others in south LA, that would be able to track it?
[15:11] <brainles71> Found it!
[15:12] <la3eq> $$B-$8,741,150838,140210,59.4468,8.716,85412,-35,1.3*2+??
[15:12] <OZ1SKY_Brian> la3eq i tryed to email LA4YGA, but havent heard from him.
[15:12] <la3eq> i have tried facebook too
[15:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> dont know alot of 70cm hams in LA, i think the only one more north would be LA6MV, in JO59. But havent had qso with him since 2003.
[15:19] <Lunar_LanderU> that's
[15:19] <Lunar_LanderU> 11 years ago
[15:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yep
[15:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> was looking in the log
[15:22] <Lunar_LanderU> oh
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[15:25] <la3eq> oz1sky i have la9gta on facebook....
[15:26] <OZ1SKY_Brian> la3eq looks like there is a pretty good aprs coverage in LA, so lets hope it can keep track of B-38
[15:27] <la3eq> la9gta is here on chat
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[15:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes but i think he is away
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[15:29] <la3eq> i asked him to come her now.
[15:29] <fsphil> drastic
[15:30] <la3eq> $$B_38,750,152935,140210,59.4903,8.7941,8501,12,-41,1.28*5CFB
[15:31] <wd8mnv_> if anyone is interested in Airspy, liike like they may be taking orders somewhat soon
[15:32] <wd8mnv_> looks*
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[15:39] <la3eq> B-38 now good decode
[15:40] <la3eq> 8526m asl, -42 C
[15:40] <la3eq> transmitter drifting alot now,
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[15:43] <Lunar_LanderU> Hallo Norway!
[15:43] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[15:44] <la4yt> ???
[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> ah just wanted to greet all the norwegian people in here
[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> (and google translate gave me that hello is "Hallo" in norwegian)
[15:46] <Reb-SM3ULC> 3.4 m/s... not so fast
[15:46] <OH7HJ> A balloon alarm in Norway..? ;)
[15:46] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[15:47] <la3eq> Hallo
[15:47] <Reb-SM3ULC> Lunar_LanderU: quit similar to "Hallå!"
[15:47] <Reb-SM3ULC> +e
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[15:48] <LeoBodnar> Didn't google translate suggested anything for "Norway"?
[15:48] <OH7HJ> Yep, the small ring above a in no saint symbol but a balloon symbol... ;)
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> Reb-SM3ULC: ah
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> yea like in Angström
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> I suppose you say something like "Ongström"
[15:49] <LeoBodnar> åh, really?
[15:50] <OH7HJ> But not in Simån Templar.
[15:50] <DL1SGP> Fåntåstic floåt so får LeoBodnår
[15:50] <la3eq> a real saint ;)
[15:51] <OH7HJ> Correctly written: Leå Bådnar.
[15:51] <Lunar_LanderU> :)
[15:51] <Lunar_LanderU> my favourite word is
[15:51] <OH7HJ> Its o, not a with the funny ring...
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[15:52] <OH7HJ> Like ÅH7HJ
[15:52] <Lunar_LanderU> telefontrådar
[15:52] <la3eq> la9gta see anytging to B-38?
[15:52] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[15:52] <la9gta-office> i can see some pattern in my waterfall, but its decoding the rtty wrong..
[15:53] <la9gta-office> the data make no sense.
[15:53] <la3eq> la9gta: not rtty....!!!
[15:53] <DL1SGP> la9gta, it uses contesia
[15:53] <la3eq> you need to download DL-FLDIGI program
[15:53] <Lunar_LanderU> (I think that means "telephone pole")
[15:54] <la3eq> then coose contestia 8/1000 mode
[15:54] <OH7HJ> If it were over Denmark, we would learn still more exotic alphabets..!
[15:54] <la9gta-office> la3eq: i'm using dl-fldigi, or i just use fldigi right now.
[15:54] <la3eq> in op mode menu choodse contestia
[15:55] <la3eq> dinne call....bbl
[15:55] <Lunar_LanderU> Ø and ø
[15:55] <la3eq> dinner time :)
[15:55] <Lunar_LanderU> for example
[15:55] <Lunar_LanderU> enjoy your meal
[15:55] <DL1SGP> yeah have a lovely dinner
[15:56] <OH7HJ> Congrats, you found them from your keyboard Lunar, proper Danish symbols for balloons!
[15:56] <la9gta-office> la3eq: changed now...i'll give it a minute to see if it decoding.
[15:57] <Lunar_LanderU> :P yea
[15:58] <Lunar_LanderU> ALT+0216 and 0248 :)
[16:00] <OZ1SKY_Brian> la9gta-office i msg you in private window, i can help with the setup
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[16:09] <OZ1SKY_Brian> bbl
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[16:09] <brainles71> I don't know how some of you guys do it
[16:10] <brainles71> I'm looking at an altium file trying to figure out which bloody capacitors the diagram wants me to use
[16:10] <brainles71> arghhh
[16:10] <brainles71> I'm getting there but still its not easy
[16:12] Nick change: Sytex_WORK -> Sytex_AWAY
[16:15] <la3eq> i'm back....don't see B-38 anymore :(
[16:16] <DL1SGP> it might have drifted in frequency la3eq
[16:17] <DL1SGP> not sure on which freq you were tuned before but look somewhere in between .495 and .500
[16:21] Action: ibanezmatt13 despises British weather . . .
[16:22] <craag> ibanezmatt13: Wind still looking no better :(
[16:23] <ibanezmatt13> nope. There's nothing more frustrating that being ready to launch, but you can't because of the dreaded wind
[16:23] <DL1SGP> la3eq: it might have gone out of your range
[16:24] <la3eq> it was drifting a lot a while ago.... i will chech up and down
[16:24] <DL1SGP> yeah the pips are quite significant so that should help you in finding it again
[16:24] <craag> I have a feeling there's a few people around waiting for the wind to shift..
[16:25] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah. Anyway, I'll start work on my next project in the mean time craag. Just purchased Solidworks which financially I perhaps shouldn't have. But you can't design and build huge rockets without proper CAD :)
[16:25] <la3eq> but the eleavation last reported was 1,4 degrees....that's los...almost behind mountains
[16:25] <adamgreig> ibanezmatt13: solidworks is excellent
[16:25] <chrisstubbs> Seconded
[16:25] <adamgreig> but I'm surprised you couldn't get it for free - they're very good at supporting educational stuff
[16:25] <chrisstubbs> how much did you pay for it ibanezmatt13?
[16:25] <ibanezmatt13> Well, I could only get the student edition
[16:25] <adamgreig> they sponsor CUSF to the tune of a good number of solidworks licenses each year, for instance
[16:25] <adamgreig> (and all our things are thus designed in solidworks)
[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> yeah adamgreig I saw martlet 1
[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> chrisstubbs, £127 in total
[16:26] <adamgreig> oh that's not so bad
[16:26] <adamgreig> in fact wow
[16:26] <adamgreig> good deal really
[16:26] <ibanezmatt13> Now relying on donations to fill our balloon up :P
[16:26] <adamgreig> is that for a year or what?
[16:27] <ibanezmatt13> yea
[16:27] <DL1SGP> ibanezmatt13: have you thought of doing crowdfunding, like arko does for the move of the hackspace ?
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[16:28] <ibanezmatt13> mm, I've never really thought about it. I absolutely hate asking for things off people :/
[16:28] <ibanezmatt13> don't really need to to be honest tho :P
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[16:29] <DL1SGP> well, you are not asking them :P you just tell them about your idea
[16:29] <la9gta-office> la3eq: still receiving rubish... fetching another radio to replace the pcr-2500..
[16:29] <DL1SGP> and then they might donate to it :)
[16:29] <ibanezmatt13> yeah true :)
[16:30] <ibanezmatt13> I'm going to attempt to design a carbon fibre model rocket which is illegal to fly (disclaimer -> which of course I'd make sure was legal to fly before I flew it)
[16:31] <adamgreig> why illegal to fly?
[16:31] <ibanezmatt13> I don't have a rocket license yet :)
[16:31] <adamgreig> ah
[16:31] <adamgreig> what motor size are you designing for?
[16:31] <adamgreig> easy enough to get your level one
[16:31] <ibanezmatt13> I mean I was gonna design something for use with say an M motor, just for the heck of it really
[16:31] <ibanezmatt13> But yeah, I can't find any places up here that do the tests
[16:31] <ibanezmatt13> I've flown G motors but can't go higher
[16:32] <adamgreig> come to EARS!
[16:32] <adamgreig> launch an H or I as a cert flight to get your level 1
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> I wish :) Though I am coming down for the weekend as soon as the weather works for us
[16:32] <adamgreig> designing for an M motor is probably a good fun academic exercise but they're sodding expensive
[16:32] <ibanezmatt13> yeah they are
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[16:32] <adamgreig> yea, shame you couldn't come this w/e. do shout when you're about
[16:33] <ibanezmatt13> yeah will do. We could come down this weekend and kindly ask DL1SGP for a favour :P
[16:34] <DL1SGP> moi?
[16:34] <ibanezmatt13> Mm probably not, I'm thinking of the netherlands :P
[16:34] <DL1SGP> ha
[16:35] <DL1SGP> dinnertime bbiab 73
[16:35] <ibanezmatt13> adamgreig, is there much to the rocketry exams? It says about having to be examined by somebody and having to do all safety documents and things.
[16:36] <DL1SGP> examined by somebody sounds scary :)
[16:36] <ibanezmatt13> indeed
[16:36] <ibanezmatt13> My safety preparation skills aren't great. I seem to blow batteries up quite a lot
[16:37] <Laurenceb_> MOXER8 is about to die
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[16:38] <adamgreig> ibanezmatt13: nah, it's fine
[16:39] <adamgreig> the RSO has to look at your rocket and check you know what you're doing and it's safe and it has to fly and land without breaking and you've gotta fill in a launch card
[16:39] <adamgreig> but like
[16:39] <adamgreig> no biggie
[16:39] <ibanezmatt13> oh cool
[16:40] <ibanezmatt13> I'll spend a few months trying to figure out where to start designing my rocket, then I'll make a trip down to EARS and get it sorted!
[16:41] <ibanezmatt13> I guess I'll base it around a specific motor and see how that turns out. Don't think cardboard is the way to go though. Carbon fibre sounds awesome, but also financially cripling :)
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[16:44] <adamgreig> cardboard is fine for like H or I or something
[16:45] <ibanezmatt13> oh right.
[16:46] <ibanezmatt13> adamgreig, is there a general place to start when designing a HP rocket from scratch, when basing it around a specific motor?
[16:46] <ibanezmatt13> just so I can be getting on with researching it and what not
[16:48] <adamgreig> typically you'll be buying cardboard tube
[16:48] <adamgreig> so design comes down mostly to fins, payload section, nosecone?
[16:48] <adamgreig> nosecone is often bought in too
[16:48] <adamgreig> you should get rocketsim or whatever it's called
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[16:48] <adamgreig> though I realise you've been working on your own
[16:48] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[16:48] <adamgreig> rocketsim does airflow over fins
[16:48] <adamgreig> to work out stability and potential downrange
[16:49] <adamgreig> which is good to know when designing fins
[16:49] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah probably worth looking into
[16:49] <adamgreig> there's opensim which is free/open source
[16:49] <ibanezmatt13> same functionality?
[16:49] <adamgreig> roughly
[16:50] <ibanezmatt13> ok cool. The only part that really scares me is the bottom part of the rocket.
[16:50] <ibanezmatt13> ie, preventing the motor accelerating straight up through the rocket :P
[16:50] <adamgreig> motor retainer
[16:50] <adamgreig> you buy a retaining ring
[16:50] <adamgreig> it screws on
[16:51] <adamgreig> if you're in cambridge sometime you can check out the various smaller rockets lying around the lab, they're all good examples of how it's done
[16:51] <adamgreig> well they're all examples
[16:51] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I've got all that for one of my G rockets. I was thinking that it'd be something I'd have to design myself. Yeah, we're coming down soon, all hail the weather
[16:51] <adamgreig> ah right yea
[16:51] <adamgreig> well basically it's identical to your G rockets
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> just a bit wider at the bottom :P
[16:52] <adamgreig> probably not
[16:52] <adamgreig> what series were you using? 38mm?
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> 29mm
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> oh no
[16:52] <adamgreig> hmm
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> yes 28mm
[16:52] <adamgreig> 28?
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> 39* ;P
[16:52] <adamgreig> 38?
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> darn keyboard
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> yes
[16:52] <adamgreig> 39?
[16:52] <adamgreig> haha
[16:52] <adamgreig> ok well
[16:52] <adamgreig> you can get like H and I in the same diameter
[16:52] <adamgreig> just need a higher grain casing
[16:52] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, so I could fly this thing...
[16:53] <adamgreig> to be honest, probably just put an H motor in your G rocket and get you rlevel one on that
[16:53] <ibanezmatt13> So now I need to sort out an explosives license before we come down, then we're all set :)
[16:53] <adamgreig> nah
[16:53] <adamgreig> buy the motor on the day
[16:53] <adamgreig> getting an RCA for transporting is a faff
[16:54] <adamgreig> easy to buy pretty much wahtever you're looking for on the day
[16:54] <ibanezmatt13> oh sweet. I'll tell you what then, if we can, we'll do it on the weekend we come down
[16:54] <adamgreig> well
[16:54] <adamgreig> EARS is only now and again
[16:54] <ibanezmatt13> ah
[16:54] <adamgreig> (also don't think you need an RCA for an H motor? not sure though)
[16:54] <adamgreig> EARS is last sunday of the month, starting march, til december, typically
[16:54] <adamgreig> or.. first?
[16:54] <adamgreig> http://ears.org.uk/launches/dates.shtml
[16:54] <adamgreig> first.
[16:55] <ibanezmatt13> right, interesting
[16:55] <adamgreig> sign up for UKRA membership in advance if you like
[16:55] <adamgreig> if you haven't already
[16:55] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah will do. Sounds like the sort of thing you don't get exceptions with.
[16:55] <adamgreig> gives 3rd party liability insurance which is nice
[16:55] <adamgreig> no indeed. though you can buy day membership onsite and stuff
[16:56] <adamgreig> must be insured somehow or other to launch though
[16:56] <adamgreig> be back later, gotta go give a supervision
[16:56] <adamgreig> have fun
[16:56] <ibanezmatt13> see you :)
[16:56] Action: ibanezmatt13 is now quite excitied
[16:57] <ibanezmatt13> -i
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[17:01] <DL1SGP> ibanezmatt13: sounds like you got a plan... whereas I would not mind you landing a balloon in my garden... pls aim rockets or any other ballistic stuff at my neighbors :)
[17:01] <ibanezmatt13> LOL :D
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[17:04] <DL1SGP> I would make sure to tell them that your launch was insured :)
[17:05] <ibanezmatt13> yeah :)
[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> I'm beginning to doubt that I know what I'm talking about. Just measured the diameter of the motor tube of my rocket and it's 29mm... hmm
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[17:10] <ibanezmatt13> damn, I need to make a bigger rocket :p
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[17:13] <DL7AD> which type of battery did LeoBodnar take?
[17:14] <DL1SGP> ibanezmatt13: so your secret plan is that your parents start to think "hey his balloon stuff was successful and a useful learning experience, let's help him with rocket science" ?
[17:14] <ibanezmatt13> exactly DL1SGP, thankfully, my Dad loves rockets :)
[17:15] <DL1SGP> ah great, that is a good base you can build on
[17:15] <ibanezmatt13> We just have to tell my mum when we do anything to do with balloons and rockets that we're going to a university open day or something, otherwise we wouldn't be permitted to leave the building!
[17:16] <DL1SGP> ah :P
[17:17] <DL1SGP> "Darling, and what is it precisely that you need a bottle of Hydrogen for when going to a meeting"
[17:17] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[17:18] <edjuh> thats for making a funny voice mother dear.
[17:19] <mfa298> I'm not sure H2 is so good for funny voices. It's better at fire
[17:19] <ibanezmatt13> damn, my rocksim 9 day trial expired like a month ago and it wants me to pay $60, after just paying loads for Solidworks. Are there any competitions on for a free bottle of H2? :)
[17:21] <Lunar_LanderU> I just recall that KT5TK received propane instead of H2 as he wrote on his blog
[17:22] <DL1SGP> you could install a 30day trial of a windows system in a virtual machine and put rocketsim on there ibanezmatt13 or try running it on wine insome Linux VM :)
[17:26] <ibanezmatt13> yeah true. I've never used a VM before :P
[17:27] <edjuh> mfa298: did I forget a smiley :D
[17:35] <ibanezmatt13> it would appear that they don't do any H motor kits. Looks like I'm gonna have to build my own (could be an unmitigated disaster)
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[17:37] <DL1SGP> ypu could go see some open-day and ask the chaps there if they know of any H-Motor before ruining the house :)
[17:37] <DL1SGP> *you
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[17:41] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[17:56] <Lunar_LanderU> see you later!
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[17:58] <Laurenceb_> its still alive
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[17:58] <cm13g09> mfa298: ping
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[18:16] <mfa298> cm13g09: pong
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[18:27] <sa6bss> Looks like 38 went into deepfreeze...
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[18:43] <LeoBodnar> ice age
[18:45] <fsphil> B's alive?
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> frozen
[18:48] Nick change: Sytex_AWAY -> Sytex
[18:48] <LeoBodnar> -60C, it's the future apparently
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[18:48] <kd2eat> Brrr
[18:50] <fsphil> ooch
[18:50] <fsphil> and I thought it was cold here
[18:53] <DL7AD> it could probably come back tomorrow i think.
[18:53] <DL7AD> for a short time
[18:58] <aadamson> so weight issues aside (yeah I know thats the big elephant)... has anyone though of an autonomous RTH (return to home) flight back with the payload? Based upon all these autopilots that exist in the rc world, seems it could be extremely easy to accomplish?
[18:59] <craag> Most of the issue with that is UAV laws
[18:59] <kd2eat> aadamson, I SO want to do that!
[19:00] <kd2eat> But first, I want to get my *$)@#**$( tracker working. lol
[19:00] <aadamson> again the weight issue becomes the elephant, but FPV from 125k would be *too cool* on a RTH :)
[19:01] <kd2eat> I've seen a youtube of someone who landed an FPV from a balloon... but he flew it.
[19:01] <LeoBodnar> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:ukhas_glider_project
[19:01] <kd2eat> Brought it right back to his feet.
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[19:03] <LeoBodnar> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:parafoil
[19:03] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb knows more
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[19:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> damn you Astra, now i cant watch BBC anymore...
[19:05] <fsphil> um?
[19:06] <DL1SGP> said the cable guy :)
[19:06] <DL1SGP> Brian, turn the dish a bit?
[19:07] <OZ1SKY_Brian> They switched to a new transponder with a very narrow UK beam.
[19:07] <DL1SGP> ah drats
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[19:08] <OZ1SKY_Brian> my 220cm cant pick it up anymore
[19:08] <aadamson> thank Leo for the links, I was thinking something lots smaller, but obviously you'd have to determine glide ratio or provide power to do anything from any distance
[19:09] <aadamson> but the flight controllers now are getting really small 36x36m with stm32f3's or f1's
[19:11] <Sytex> https://www.facebook.com/rcstratoszferaproject
[19:11] <Sytex> Soma Hungarian guys also trying to "get home" from a ballon
[19:11] <Sytex> The facebook page is Hungarian...sorry
[19:12] <LeoBodnar> cue Hungarian phrasebook
[19:13] <fsphil> yikes it must be a very sharp footprint
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> controlled balloon gliders are a grey area as they are pretty much UAVs so there are some legislation questions to be answered first
[19:13] <fsphil> you need a bigger dish OZ1SKY_Brian :)
[19:13] <fsphil> who needs a back garden...
[19:13] <OZ1SKY_Brian> fsphil yeah im thinking about it :-)
[19:14] <Sytex> As I read on their FB page, they were at HungaroControll, they said OK for it
[19:19] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar what do you think, rebirth of B-38 when it warms up tomorrow?
[19:21] <LeoBodnar> Not sure Brian, it's not impossible
[19:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> its was pretty weak on 70cm, but the aprs seemed to work wery well
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[19:22] <OZ1SKY_Brian> erhh very well
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[19:24] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: impressive flight, very high and cold and still alivefor quite a while
[19:24] <LeoBodnar> It's been awhile since flight ended with a power loss rather than landing
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> So it's a surprise it hanged on so well
[19:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar your ballons are too good, thats the problem :-)
[19:25] <LeoBodnar> altitude-wise
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[19:27] <LeoBodnar> heh, there are tonnes of things to improve
[19:27] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i got a question to the aprs vs 70cm
[19:28] <LeoBodnar> sure
[19:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> it seems that if the aprs is in range, it will allways display that and not the contestina signal. Is the APRS packet allways newer than the contestia packet?
[19:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> by display i mean spacenear tracker
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> the tracker collects the data A sends it immediately via APRS, waits 2.5 min, collects data B, sends it immediately, waits a little bit and sends both A and B via Contestia packet
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> then waits anotehr 2.5 min
[19:31] <LeoBodnar> so it sends single position with APRS with 2.5min intervals and two positions with Contestia every 5 min
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> so APRS on average is fresher
[19:32] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ahh ok thats why then, so the contestia packets are allways older than the packets via aprs, so that why they dont show up on the tracker
[19:32] <LeoBodnar> no, they are the same for 2.5 min and then new update comes over APRS
[19:33] <LeoBodnar> so 50% of the time they are the same and 50% of the time APRS is fresher
[19:34] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yes but if it sends the aprs first, then the tracker will show that and disregard the contestia packets, as they are not "newer"
[19:34] <LeoBodnar> ah, OK that makes sense
[19:34] <sa6bss> and upu sometimes when in tracker range turning of imorts from aprs?
[19:35] <x-f> OZ1SKY_Brian, by default spacenearus tracker displays data received via dl-fldigi, but when no one is receiving it, somebody (usually Upu) imports the APRS packets and displays them on the tracker
[19:36] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i understand that APRS have a tx every 2.5min, first packet A and then after 2.5min packet B, and contestia have a txx every 5min with both packet A and B. But if packet B is sent earlyer on APRS than on contestia, it will gets to the tracker first and than the tracker will disread the packet b from contestia because its the same packet. Does it make sense?
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[19:37] <OZ1SKY_Brian> x-f yes i know
[19:37] <x-f> the switching is manual
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[19:37] <marts> hi anyone around?
[19:37] <daveake> nope
[19:38] <marts> I would like to know the weight of the nxt2
[19:38] <daveake> 5g
[19:38] <marts> ;) sry first time here
[19:38] <daveake> ish
[19:38] <OZ1SKY_Brian> LeoBodnar what im unsure of is this. is packet B sent first on APRS or contestia?
[19:38] <marts> thats quick, thanks
[19:39] <daveake> just checked my weight sheet, and yes it's 5g
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[19:45] <LeoBodnar> APRS first then little pause and Contestia block
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[19:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> OK then it all makes sense, that none of the contestia gets displayed
[19:48] <keydash> hellooo
[19:49] <keydash> finally solded
[19:49] <keydash> the habamlp
[19:49] <keydash> *habamp
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[20:09] <Lunar_Lander> evening
[20:09] <Reb-SM3ULC> correct
[20:10] <DL1SGP> hehe good evening Lunar_Lander, god kvell Reb-SM3ULC
[20:11] Nick change: Sytex -> Sytex_AWAY
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[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> :)
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[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> I thought about something today
[20:19] <SpeedEvil> ?
[20:20] <qyx_> me too
[20:20] <Lunar_Lander> we'd need some sort of scientific summit to agree on some sort of program what can be studied on HAB vehicles
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[20:23] <DL7AD_> evening
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[20:24] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
[20:27] <Upu> ping LeoBodnar
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> yo
[20:29] <Upu> evening
[20:30] <aadamson> while you both are here pinging one another, have either of you released your hardware designs as open source?
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> we can self-appoint silly titles! :D
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> Upu did
[20:30] <Upu> didn't :)
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> Upu didn't
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[20:30] <Upu> it contained traces of Bodnar so I didn't release it
[20:30] <LeoBodnar> that's what I meant when I said he did
[20:31] <Upu> Software is open sourced
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njaSXZC6qJM
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, Upu LeoBodnar, I think, we'd need some sort of scientific summit to agree on some sort of program what can be studied on HAB vehicles
[20:31] <Lunar_Lander> what do you say?
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> "no description available"
[20:31] <Upu> I concur with what Laurenceb said
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[20:32] <LeoBodnar> I say you don't go to summit without having a proper title
[20:32] <aadamson> upu where is the source?
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:32] <Upu> https://github.com/Upuaut/pAVAR9
[20:32] <LeoBodnar> and a big limousine
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar what about "PICO Balloon Expert?"
[20:32] <aadamson> I'd like to see if I can make it run on my board actually :)
[20:32] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:32] <Upu> you use at your own peril
[20:32] <aadamson> perfect thanks
[20:32] <Upu> PM leo
[20:32] <jcoxon> we have a pretty good conference
[20:33] <aadamson> yeah you use a tcxo, and me a vcxo so it will be interesting, but if I don't modulate the vcxo, it's just a tcxo :)
[20:33] <aadamson> sri, just a xo actually no temp on it
[20:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:34] <Upu> VCXO is probably a better way of doing it
[20:34] <LeoBodnar> aadamson: TK5TK modulates something
[20:35] <aadamson> KT5TK, uses a vxco, I patterned mine after his pico4 iteration and am now working on a second version just for kicks... you helped me get Xin working if you remember right
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> *KT5TK: https://github.com/tkrahn/
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> ah, ok
[20:35] <LeoBodnar> yes, I do now!
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[20:36] <LeoBodnar> sorry, not keeping up
[20:36] <aadamson> it use a much smaller vcxo than kt5, it's 27mhz and it's voltage divided by 3v3/2 so if I don't modulate it with pwm, it's just a tcxo without the t :
[20:36] <steve_2e0vet> anyong know what a tant "A" capacitor is, or if there is anything speacial about it
[20:36] <steve_2e0vet> special..
[20:37] <aadamson> isn't "A" just another way to specify size?
[20:37] <LeoBodnar> it's about 1206 in size
[20:37] <aadamson> yea I though so
[20:37] <LeoBodnar> look up "Case A"
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[20:37] <aadamson> google case sizes for capactors and you'll see what it is
[20:37] <steve_2e0vet> dunno. its an SMD i think
[20:37] <aadamson> there is A,B ,C etc
[20:37] <aadamson> yeah that would make sense
[20:38] <steve_2e0vet> makes sense cos it is bigger than an 0805, if o805 refers to size
[20:38] <steve_2e0vet> are they common? because I cannot find them on RS or farnell
[20:38] <LeoBodnar> Case A defines height as well
[20:38] <aadamson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology
[20:39] <LeoBodnar> * ihave made this up just now
[20:39] <aadamson> about mid page see the Tant caps and the Kemet A size - 3.2x1.6.1.8mm
[20:39] <LeoBodnar> *turned out to be true then
[20:39] <aadamson> good guess on the 1206 :)
[20:39] <LeoBodnar> that wasn't a guess
[20:39] <aadamson> ah... :)
[20:40] <LeoBodnar> footprint is the same
[20:40] <LeoBodnar> within good margin
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> I have used a lot of "case A" 10uF tantalums and then switched to ceramic 1206 ones without any change in layout
[20:42] <steve_2e0vet> LeoBodnar where do you get your case A from?
[20:42] <Upu> Yeah I stopped using tantalums after eroomde told me where they came form
[20:42] <Upu> from
[20:42] <steve_2e0vet> where did they come from?
[20:42] <LeoBodnar> Farnell, DigiKey, Rapid, Mouser, usual suspects
[20:43] <LeoBodnar> do you mean manufacturers?
[20:43] <steve_2e0vet> i carnt seem to find them on farnell, i will have another look now
[20:43] <Upu> don't use them
[20:43] <Upu> just use ceramic ones
[20:44] <Upu> they are basically formed in the sweat of african slaves
[20:44] <LeoBodnar> http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=215838+110581807&No=0&getResults=true&appliedparametrics=true&locale=en_UK&divisionLocale=en_UK&catalogId=&skipManufacturer=false&skipParametricAttributeId=&prevNValues=215838&mm=1004961||,&filtersHidden=false&appliedHidden=false&autoApply=false&originalQueryURL=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fbrowse.jsp%3FN%3D215838%26No%3D0%26getResults%3Dtrue%26appliedparametrics%3Dtrue%26locale%3Den_UK%26d
[20:44] <LeoBodnar> oops
[20:44] <Upu> boom in your face url
[20:44] <LeoBodnar> *blush
[20:44] <steve_2e0vet> ive just bought a board for a davies weather station and it uses the tant a so thoought it would be best to use that, but dont mind what i use as long as the footprint is the same
[20:45] <aadamson> oh, this should be a fun challenge porting the upu thor16 stuff to the stmf3 :)... I think it should be pretty easy...(always appears as such)... guess we'll see
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> Home - Passive - Capacitors - Tantalum SMD - select manufacturer size code "A"
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[20:45] <LeoBodnar> Farnell has idiotic website
[20:46] <steve_2e0vet> LeoBodnar cheers & agree
[20:46] <steve_2e0vet> it is fun narrowing down the options
[20:46] <S_Mark> Hello all, just a real quick one - anyone got like a full screen screenshot of dl-fldigi recieving a 50baud transmission from a HAB that they wouldn't mind me using in a presentation?
[20:46] <S_Mark> I thought I had one
[20:47] <S_Mark> But I dont
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> hi S_Mark
[20:47] <Upu> I like Farnell
[20:47] <Upu> its way better than RS
[20:47] <S_Mark> hi Lunar_Lander
[20:47] <Lunar_Lander> how are you?
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[20:47] <S_Mark> good thanks
[20:48] <steve_2e0vet> S_Mark when do you need it for?
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> nice to hear that
[20:48] <S_Mark> ummm tonight ha
[20:48] <steve_2e0vet> arh, dont know if i can do that quick
[20:48] <S_Mark> just asking on the off chance that someone may have one lying around
[20:48] <S_Mark> no worries if not
[20:49] <steve_2e0vet> i was going to find my transmitter and record it for you
[20:49] <steve_2e0vet> not sure where it is at the mo
[20:49] <daveake> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Nj7jxuy9x4Y/UdfubnQ7w4I/AAAAAAAAAd0/uVKrcwLuCho/s1600/Screenshot%2Bfrom%2B2013-07-06%2B11:13:07.png
[20:49] <daveake> not mine
[20:50] <S_Mark> thanks daveake
[20:50] <daveake> Or just do a google image search for dl-fldigi (that's what I did)
[20:51] <S_Mark> yeah I have just done now - I thought Id ask here first, cheers all
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> I have just searched for "google image" and it didn't have any dl-fldigi
[20:53] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[20:54] <jededu> S_Mark this any good it was only a test http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/IMG_0628.JPG
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[20:56] <S_Mark> cheers jededu I'll have a look now
[20:56] <S_Mark> back in a bit!
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[20:56] <chrisstubbs> LeoBodnar, what was your longest flight? was it the one over the conf?
[21:01] <LeoBodnar> yeah 7 days
[21:01] <DL1SGP> :)
[21:01] <LeoBodnar> or did you mean distance?
[21:02] <chrisstubbs> Ah cool yeah duration, what B- was that?
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[21:07] <chrisstubbs> B-11 by the looks of it, can I use a couple of photos on your site for our radio club presentation?
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[21:13] <Geoff-G8DHE> OT: Anybody had experience of using ultrasonics to measure depth of LPG in tanks ?
[21:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> I'll take that as a no then :-(
[21:15] <DL1SGP> SOrry Geoff, sounds interesting but nope, do not know about it :)
[21:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> S'all right not much on the web even, plenty of we do it, but we aren't telling you the details!
[21:19] <DL1SGP> hmm sooner or later they will be assimilated and their knowledge becomes a part of the hive
[21:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> Then it will be available for all ... in the hive .. I am not a number!
[21:20] <DL1SGP> that indeed is a problem :)
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[21:38] <LeoBodnar> chrisstubbs yes please use anything you fancy
[21:38] <chrisstubbs> Cheers :)
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> Geoff-G8DHE: we had a chap that bought an expensive system to replace a massive wooden dipstick
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> before he left the company
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[21:40] <LeoBodnar> when they installed it and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't calibrate they have found the new system probe was 10ft short of the bottom of the tank
[21:40] <SIbot> In real units: 10 ft = 3.05 m
[21:41] <LeoBodnar> so you have like 0.5% accuracy until you reach 50% of the volume. Then you get the wooden dipstick.
[21:42] <Geoff-G8DHE> I won't have that problem! 100cm is plenty ;-) Just trying to come up with a simple movable sensor between small LPG cooking gas tanks!
[21:42] <LeoBodnar> All they wanted is to have a system that would tell them when volume has reached 20% of full tank capacity.
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[21:49] <jtx77> Anyone can help me with hx1 filter for atmega?
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[21:51] <jtx77> Hello
[21:51] <Upu> hi jtx77
[21:51] <Upu> how do you mean ?
[21:52] <jtx77> How can i optimize hx1 ?
[21:53] <Upu> optimise it in what way ? What are you trying to do with it ?
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[21:53] <jtx77> Use for pico launch
[21:53] <Upu> transmitting APRS ?
[21:53] <jtx77> Yes
[21:54] <Upu> ok well you may struggle a little because of the requirements for 5V
[21:54] <Upu> you'll need at least 2 batteries
[21:54] <Upu> which means you're going to be 25g minimum
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[21:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[21:54] <Upu> and probably more with the HX1
[21:54] <Upu> hey Tom
[21:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> Hey Anthony
[21:55] <Upu> I think a HX1 based Pico though possible is going to be tough
[21:55] <Upu> small latex no problems
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[21:56] <LeoBodnar> Hey Tom SP9UOB-Tom thanks for the sonde!
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> got it today
[21:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: got it? Cool :-)
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> very nice
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> have you doe anything to it?
[21:57] <LeoBodnar> like reprogramming?
[21:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: no, im just using antenna and frontend
[21:57] <jtx77> Small latex? How many hours do them float?
[21:58] <Upu> not seen a small latex float yet
[21:58] <LeoBodnar> ah, nice
[21:58] <Upu> if you want to make a foil APRS floater you'll need to make your own custom radio
[21:58] <LeoBodnar> where do you tap in, it's quite an integrated PCB
[21:58] <Upu> something that can run at lower voltages
[21:58] <LeoBodnar> ?
[21:58] <Upu> talking to jtx77 Leo :)
[21:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: if you broke it - just tell me - i have lot of these :-)
[21:59] <LeoBodnar> that was ? to Tom heh :D
[21:59] <Upu> do you keep the parachutes SP9UOB-Tom ?
[21:59] <Upu> oh sorry lol
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[21:59] <aadamson> Upu, I guess you know that your blink counts are off by one? you use a zero based start and you check for <= so when you say blink(n), you get n+1 blinks... didn't know if you knew that or not
[21:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: yeah, im keeping parachutes, they are cheap ;-)
[21:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> lol :-0
[21:59] <aadamson> just figued I'd pass that along, I have the code up on an 328 8mhz mini at the moment
[21:59] <Upu> aadamson oh yeah they are all over the place
[22:00] <aadamson> haven't connected it to my radio, but about to do that
[22:00] <DL1SGP> SP9UOB-Tom: keeping the vaisala parachutes makes sense
[22:00] <Upu> its on my list of stuff to tidy up
[22:00] <Upu> F6AGV sent me a pile
[22:00] <Upu> Sorry F5APQ
[22:00] <aadamson> gonna just bring up the demo code to start
[22:00] <DL1SGP> I will have one of the RS92SGP on my workbench starting thursday night
[22:00] <Upu> they were very useful
[22:00] <LeoBodnar> i have just blinked
[22:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: im cutting it with diamiond saw just after preamplifier
[22:01] <LeoBodnar> so blink++
[22:01] <Upu> aadamson many moons ago the blinks reduced
[22:01] <Upu> but I moved them around for testing and never tidied it back up
[22:01] <LeoBodnar> OK, I need to look at them closer
[22:02] <aadamson> and I just realized this for the 406x so I'll have to tweak it abit for a 4463
[22:02] <aadamson> I think
[22:03] <Upu> Brad's code is for 4464
[22:03] <aadamson> ya simple fix, just make the compare < instead of <=
[22:03] <aadamson> brad?
[22:03] <Upu> KF7FER
[22:03] <aadamson> ah.
[22:03] <kd2eat> *perks* What's the issue on the 4463?
[22:03] <jtx77> Upu,can i use 3 or 4 pico balloons?
[22:03] <aadamson> oh and in interested, astyle is your friend to clean up c code with :)
[22:04] <Upu> yes you can jtx77 but generally they don't work
[22:04] <aadamson> not one, upu's code is written for a 406x and I use a 4463
[22:04] <Upu> as one bursts then they come down slowly
[22:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: anyway - tracking site has still "in delivery" status :-)
[22:04] <jtx77> Why?
[22:04] <Upu> just the way it works, I've never seen a multiballoon launch work as expected
[22:04] <kd2eat> ahh
[22:05] <Upu> i.e one always fails and then the other one hasn't got enough lift so it comes down
[22:05] <LeoBodnar> I flew two, can't remember what happened to them
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[22:05] <LeoBodnar> but they didn't burst
[22:06] <aadamson> well so much for that no kf7fer on github
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> this one
[22:06] <Upu> aadamson sorry
[22:06] <Upu> https://github.com/tkrahn/PecanAva
[22:06] <LeoBodnar> http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-23/index.html
[22:06] <Upu> KT5TK
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[22:07] <aadamson> Ah, Thomas's code, I already have that working
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[22:07] <LeoBodnar> but you need to get neck lift matched up to 0.5g or better
[22:07] <Upu> Sure Brad has done some as well
[22:07] <jtx77> Is there any trick?
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[22:07] <LeoBodnar> otherwise higher lift one will burst
[22:08] <Upu> oh no sorry it was KT5TK my bad
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[22:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: how much free lift is border between floating and burst? Its something like 3gramS?
[22:09] <LeoBodnar> about 5 grams
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[22:09] <aadamson> yeah, no worries, I just wanted to try to bring your code up on arduino before I go moving it over the stm and to do that I've got to talk to my 4463 not a problem, just thought I was closer than I was :)
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[22:09] <LeoBodnar> 4 definitely floats
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[22:10] <LeoBodnar> I am not sure which one definitely bursts
[22:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: going down to 1-2 grams causes slow descent
[22:11] <LeoBodnar> What do you mean?
[22:11] <Upu> I did 1.5g last time
[22:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> i did 1.5 last time, but after reaching float altitute, it was started to descent slowly
[22:12] <Upu> mine bounced off the ground after launch
[22:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> im suspecting ice or sth
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[22:12] <jtx77> Can i use a pico balloon with 45g payload?
[22:12] <Upu> yes but its very unlikely to float
[22:12] <LeoBodnar> Well it is more susceptible to moisture but can survive 1.3g lift: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-6/
[22:13] <LeoBodnar> jtx77: you can but only during the night
[22:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, nect time i'll try 4 grams
[22:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> next
[22:15] <LeoBodnar> Upu: I think with 1-2g lift it will float at 2500m http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/projects:microballoons:foil-floaters-leo.png?id=projects%3Amicroballoons%3Adata
[22:15] <LeoBodnar> but it will burst after the sunrise definitely
[22:15] <LeoBodnar> guaranteed
[22:15] <Upu> it didn't floated at 7.5km
[22:15] <Upu> was fine the day after
[22:16] <jtx77> How can i avoid burst?
[22:16] <Upu> very light payload
[22:16] <Upu> not much gas
[22:16] <Upu> payload <15g and free lift <4g should be fine
[22:17] <Upu> right dog needs a walk back soon
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> I need to update this chart for daytime float
[22:17] <jtx77> And 45g payload?
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[22:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: remember that girl with fancy headphones ;-) There is a english version:
[22:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQp7z8yYZUI
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> basicalli anything will float in the night if the free lift is < 4g
[22:17] <LeoBodnar> heh where do I sign up
[22:18] <jtx77> Thank you
[22:19] <LeoBodnar> maybe it's more subtle than "in the night" because IR heating from the ground is not accounted for
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[22:23] <Laurenceb_> http://www.fagbearings.cn/bearinglist/FAGbearing/FAGNK2616.html
[22:24] <Laurenceb_> i lolled
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[22:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> what is optimal temperature for hot-air reflow soldering ?
[22:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> im just playing with sn62 pb ag2 solderpaste
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[22:38] <LeoBodnar> is there a modulation type that can survive it's bandwidth severely reduced?
[22:39] <LeoBodnar> *its
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[22:39] <LeoBodnar> during reception
[22:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: morse ;-)
[22:40] <Upu> Ask Darkside he's doing something on this now
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[22:42] <LeoBodnar> What I mean is is there modulation type that allow the transmitter / receiver to drift 10kHz and still receive the data with 3kHz audio bw
[22:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> if the tx drifts 10KHz and the rx stays, then no
[22:49] <OZ1SKY_Brian> unless you have 10KHz BW from a SDR
[22:49] <OZ1SKY_Brian> but on a normal radio you only have 2.4-3KHz BW
[22:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> dont know if dl-fldigi is able to auto the radio via CI-V though
[22:50] <jcoxon> LeoBodnar, sometimes things like morse with FSK there is an mirror code
[22:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> auto tune
[22:50] <jcoxon> with hellschreiber you can decode it in 2 places on the WF
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[22:50] <jcoxon> one is white letters on black background and the other black letters on white background
[22:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> dl-fldigi can tune an SDR-RADIo setup there are files on my web site for doing it. using the CAT protocol.
[22:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Geoff-G8DHE but will it tune the radio to the rx signal?
[22:51] <OZ1SKY_Brian> keeping the signal in the waterfall
[22:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> Provided you have the bandwidth wider than the drift yes, I have mine set to re-tune every 20Hz
[22:52] <LeoBodnar> well I need to receive two signals at once while they can both drift out of audio range in the opposite directions
[22:52] <OZ1SKY_Brian> What i mean is, if the RX is set to 434.500 and the tx drifts to 434.495, then what?
[22:52] <LeoBodnar> basically I want a wide BW with high redundancy that allows restoring the signal from a narrow part of it
[22:52] <Geoff-G8DHE> SDR-RADIO has 6 VFO's so you can track 6 transmissions within the 2MHz bandwidth of most dongles
[22:53] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Geoff-G8DHE yes i know SDR have that, but what i asking is, can dl-fldigi keep the radio signal in the waterfall by tuning the radio using AFC?
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[22:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> As the freq drifts the AFC in dl-fldigi tracks it, until it reaches - in my case - 20Hz offset, then it signals the radio to retune by 20Hz
[22:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Geoff-G8DHE ok then it can
[22:55] <OZ1SKY_Brian> thats very usefull for unattented tracking of drifters
[22:55] <Geoff-G8DHE> See http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/index.php?ind=3
[22:56] <fsphil> not sure such a thing exists without wasting power LeoBodnar
[22:56] <OZ1SKY_Brian> just havent had any luck yet, getting dl-fldigi tuning my radio. Missing a conf file for it
[22:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> and the one next to it capture1.jpg
[22:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> You need to download or write your CAT XML for the radio
[22:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> cant find any file for it and not sure how to make one
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[22:59] <Geoff-G8DHE> Which radio is it ?
[22:59] <OZ1SKY_Brian> IC-910
[22:59] <craag> daveake: Congrats on the callsign!
[23:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> The IC-9100 might be a good starting point ? http://www.w1hkj.com/xmlarchives.html
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> thanks, good info! need to think
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> of course the extra power is the price
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> good night!
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> daveake, congrats
[23:04] <LeoBodnar> but power is not a problem really as one of the transmitters is local
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[23:15] <DL7AD> good night
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[23:40] <OZ1SKY_Brian> gn
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[00:00] --- Tue Feb 11 2014