highaltitude.log.20140208

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[00:18] <andy_vk3yt_> thanks fsphil
[00:18] <VK2OMD> Seems like a late change of call sign?
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[00:21] <vk3vcl-p> VK2OMD,How do you mean Owen?
[00:22] <VK2OMD> Well, I was tracking PS and it disappeared. I see PSPI hasn't udpated for over half an hour though.
[00:23] <vk3vcl-p> Ahh... there are a few funny readings...
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[00:25] <fsphil> some image data coming in
[00:25] <fsphil> how long until launch?
[00:27] <vk3vcl-p> Probably a picture of Andys nostrils :)
[00:27] <VK2OMD> Or the crew sleeping!
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[00:29] <LeoBodnar> anybody remembers the link to daveake research on chip antennas for 434MHz?
[00:31] <arko> LeoBodnar: http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/W3127/553-1696-ND/2538463
[00:33] <arko> i've been thinking about getting that
[00:34] <LeoBodnar> cheers!
[00:34] <arko> yeah let me know how it is
[00:34] <LeoBodnar> I have it in "todo" pile
[00:34] <arko> haven't had time to buy and play with it
[00:34] <arko> haha
[00:34] <arko> same
[00:34] <LeoBodnar> somewhere, one of them Farnell piles
[00:34] <arko> ahh
[00:34] <arko> yeah
[00:35] <LeoBodnar> Dave tried 3 or 4 chip antennas
[00:42] <JohnM_> are we near a Launch of this Balloon...?
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[00:51] <LeoBodnar> when do we expect KT5TK balloon over here ?
[00:54] <andy_vk3yt_> balloon away
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[00:55] <vk3jed> Morning all
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[00:56] <vk3jed> Just got reception here
[00:58] <andy_vk3yt_> cool
[00:59] <fsphil> good luck
[00:59] <vk3vcl-p> AOS 434.645.5
[01:01] <vk3jed> Getting good telemetry and image packets here
[01:02] <vk3jed> Hmm, interesting temperature profile, balloon just hit an inversion by the looks of the drift
[01:03] <vk3jed> Through the inversion now
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[01:10] <vk3jed> Solid copy and the first pic looks nice
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[01:22] <vk3jed> Anyone else here monitoring PSB?
[01:23] <vk3vcl-p> vk3jed, What is your RX filter bandwidth set to?
[01:23] <vk3jed> On which?
[01:24] <vk3jed> The radio?
[01:24] <vk3jed> Or fldigi?
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[01:25] <vk3vcl-p> on fldigi... under modem settings rTTY
[01:26] <vk3jed> 300 Hz
[01:26] <vk3vcl-p> ta
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[01:27] <vk3jed> U getting anything?
[01:27] <vk3vcl-p> yes, but as per tha last flights, the decodes all show bad checksum.. trying to figure out why. Images show ok.
[01:28] <vk3jed> What's your signal like?
[01:29] <vk3vcl-p> peaking s5 on the 910 with preamp on. around S1 on the 817 no amp
[01:29] <vk3jed> Ok, so reasonable. And is squelch off in fldigi?
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[01:30] <vk3jed> I have AFC on, CAT enabled, SQL off
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[01:30] <vk3vcl-p> Yep.. now have 2-3 good checksums.. no idea why, they just started comming in.
[01:30] <vk3jed> Cool
[01:30] <adwiens_KC0WYS> nice photos!
[01:30] <vk3jed> Need CAT to track the drift lol
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[01:32] <VK2OMD> vk3jed: what is your best estimate of dial freq and audio offset at the moment?
[01:33] <vk3jed> Dial is 434.650.51, audio around 1550 Hz
[01:33] <VK2OMD> Ta.
[01:34] <vk3vcl-p> 434.650.4
[01:34] <vk3jed> Chased it up from 434.6445 or thereabouts :)
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[01:41] <vk3jed> Signal still not real strong here
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[01:44] <John_VK2FAK> Balloon moving faster than the chase car
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[01:45] <vk3jed> Hehe how fast is it going? Doesn't seem to have moved much to me
[01:46] <vk3vcl-p> Its going up fast!
[01:46] <vk3jed> Yeah it's going up reasonably fast, true
[01:47] <vk3jed> Wonder if they'll make their predicted 33km before it bursts.
[01:47] <VK2OMD> I am receiving sig now, not yet decoded.
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[01:50] <vk3vcl-p> VK2OMD, Excellent...what strength?
[01:52] <VK2OMD> S/N<10dB
[01:52] <vk3jed> Hmm had to switch rig and antenna, now on the FT-736
[01:52] <vk3jed> Great sig, but lose the benefit of CaT :(
[01:52] <VK2OMD> Dial .650
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[01:55] <vk3vcl-p> Signal firming up.. 434.650.1~ stable decodes more or less
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[01:56] <vk3jed> Rock solid on the 736 here
[01:56] <Darkside> christ, so many VKs on here
[01:56] <Darkside> <- vk5qi
[01:57] <Darkside> not tracking balloon, in hahndorf drinking german beer
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[01:57] <vk3jed> An active balloon in VK tends to bring us out. :)
[01:57] <vk3vcl-p> would prefer to be in Handorf drinking beer myself. 41 deg here :)
[01:58] <vk3vcl-p> Actually, Jed came out long ago ;)
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[01:58] <chrisl> hi all
[01:58] <Darkside> similar heer lol
[01:58] <vk3vcl-p> lo
[01:58] <vk3jed> Lol
[01:58] <Darkside> 39atm
[01:58] <Darkside> k food time
[01:58] <Darkside> bbl
[01:58] <vk3vcl-p> DanielRichman,yes but is that C or F
[01:58] <Darkside> C
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[01:59] <chrisl> hi
[01:59] <Darkside> bbl
[01:59] <vk3vcl-p> Darkside, Ahh.. A mate just got back from Bavaria.. sait is was mild
[01:59] <vk3vcl-p> Ground distance now ~310 kms from me
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[02:00] <vk3vcl-p> Passed 20k M... RAte of ascent climbing....
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[02:11] <vk3vcl-p> Interesting picture comming through.
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[02:17] <vk3vcl-p> 26 k @ 6.2 m/s..
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[02:19] <VK2OMD> I am finding a lot of freq variation (+/- 50Hz), packets decode sometimes, but never a good checksum.
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[02:20] <vk3vcl-p> Seems pretty normal Owen.. We are all having similar issues, but seems to get better as the flight progresses.
[02:21] <vk3vcl-p> VK2OMD, How about Image packets.. Are they in the green?
[02:21] <VK2OMD> Having said that, first decode and checksum ok. I normally get good packets when I am just inside the blue circle. I am well inside it now.
[02:22] <VK2OMD> I suspect some atmospheric turbulence causing Doppler shifting of sigs.
[02:22] <vk3jed> Signal has gone weak here on both antennas :(
[02:23] <VK2OMD> Are people underneath it seeing the freq variation?
[02:23] <vk3jed> It's back again, on the IC-7000 now
[02:23] <vk3jed> Hmm, heavy slow QSB
[02:24] <vk3vcl-p> Yes, we can all see it Owen.
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[02:24] <vk3vcl-p> VK2OMD, Your image packets are comming through on Image 9 Owen.
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[02:25] <vk3vcl-p> Approaching 29K. 6.6m/s
[02:25] <vk3jed> 30km
[02:26] <vk3jed> Passed 30k according to the RTTY telemetry
[02:26] <vk3vcl-p> yes, saw that
[02:28] <vk3jed> 31k
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[02:29] <Prometheus> Hey guy's who's flying?
[02:30] <VK2OMD> It is rising at a great rate, I wonder if it is wobbling and that is creating the Doppler shift that I am seeing.
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[02:30] <vk3jed> 32k
[02:30] <vk3vcl-p> Naw.. just getting very cold
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[02:32] <Prometheus> any APRS on this one?
[02:33] <vk3jed> 33k
[02:33] <vk3jed> Yep
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[02:33] <vk3vcl-p> Yep... its the VK3YT-11 track
[02:33] <Prometheus> callsign?
[02:33] <vk3jed> They made their 33k
[02:33] <Prometheus> thanks
[02:34] <vk3vcl-p> ^^
[02:34] <vk3vcl-p> Vell done Andy... now. how much more can it take
[02:34] <vk3vcl-p> Prometheus, Youre welcome
[02:35] <Prometheus> nice altitude what knod of balloon?
[02:35] <vk3vcl-p> 434.649 even
[02:35] <vk3vcl-p> Prometheus, Not sure.. I will try and find out for you
[02:35] <vk3jed> 34k
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[02:38] <vk3jed> 35k
[02:38] <Prometheus> nice definition between surface and upper atmosphere winds
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[02:40] <vk3vcl-p> Image 9 contrubutions from VK3NFI, ALE, VK3JED, VK3DGN, VK3VCL-R, VK3OHM, VK3VCL/P, VK2HAB, VK2OMD, VK2AYM. lovely!
[02:40] <vk3jed> 36k
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[02:42] <vk3jed> Looks like it's coming down. :)
[02:43] <vk3jed> Almost 37k max
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[02:44] <vk3vcl-p> 434.648...signal very erratic.
[02:44] <vk3vcl-p> wonder if it was cut down or burst?
[02:45] <vk3jed> Good question, though it did pass the expected altitude
[02:47] <Prometheus> nice winds they may not have far to go to retrieve it
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[02:52] <Prometheus> Ok now going to head back the other way
[02:53] <vk3vcl-p> The wind is very hot and gusty atm. all over the shop.
[02:53] <vk3vcl-p> ...looks like a MIRV Re-entry
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[02:55] <vk3jed> :)
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[02:57] <Prometheus> MIRV?
[02:57] <Prometheus> new term for me
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[02:58] <vk3vcl-p> Multiple_independently_targetable_reentry_vehicle. We are all cold war kids :)
[02:59] <vk3vcl-p> We didnt have HAB.. just Nukes
[02:59] <Prometheus> cool
[02:59] <vk3jed> Lol
[03:00] <vk3jed> HAB are safer to play with. ;)
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[03:02] <vk3vcl-p> 10K....
[03:03] <Prometheus> it running away now
[03:03] <Prometheus> lol
[03:03] <Prometheus> Gonna get a ticket
[03:03] <Prometheus> chasing
[03:03] <vk3vcl-p> Looks like Finley will get all three warheads... poor souls
[03:04] <vk3jed> Lol
[03:04] <vk3vcl-p> will no one think of the children...
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[03:07] <Prometheus> in the thick air now
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[03:08] <vk3jed> Yeah
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[03:14] <vk3vcl-p> can only just make it out.... no data...almost.....
[03:16] <vk3jed> Still receiving data here
[03:16] <vk3jed> Weak sig now
[03:18] <vk3vcl-p> LOS....
[03:18] <vk3jed> Getting some SSTV packets, but checksum errors on telem now
[03:19] <vk3jed> SSDV
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[03:21] <vk3jed> Hey andy_vk3yt
[03:21] <andy_vk3yt> hi tony
[03:21] <vk3jed> Nice flight
[03:21] <andy_vk3yt> almost on ground
[03:21] <vk3jed> Yeah
[03:22] <vk3jed> Seeing signal, but too weak to decode :(
[03:22] <andy_vk3yt> thanks for the tracking
[03:22] <vk3jed> You're welcome
[03:23] <vk3jed> Always good fun
[03:24] <vk3jed> Looks like LOS here
[03:24] <vk3vcl-p> That old man Bouchiers place.. watch he dont take a pot shot at ya Andy ;)
[03:25] <vk3jed> Lol
[03:28] <Prometheus> yeah thanks guy's enjoyed it
[03:28] <vk3vcl-p> Prometheus, Thanks for dropping By!
[03:29] <Prometheus> well I just found you guy's!
[03:29] <Prometheus> love all the action here
[03:29] <Prometheus> great group
[03:30] <vk3vcl-p> Its hard to keep Andy quiet... he never shuts up...
[03:30] <Prometheus> hope to make progress with you guy's soon
[03:30] <vk3jed> Yeah a good HAB launch is a lot of fun. :)
[03:30] <vk3jed> Lol vcl
[03:30] <Prometheus> nothing I'd rather do :)
[03:30] <vk3jed> Lol
[03:30] <Burninate> A challenge:
[03:30] <Burninate> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7199692
[03:31] <Burninate> Figure out a way to talk to a 36-year-old heliocentric satellite to recover it
[03:31] <vk3vcl-p> .. well, after multi band HF, digital, data, rtty, smoke and morriors on previous flights, this was a walk in the park!.. Even had a nap.
[03:32] <vk3vcl-p> Burninate, be firm wit it... tell it to straighten up and fly right!
[03:32] <Prometheus> I hope to be able to do reports on flight here on our new forum
[03:32] <vk3jed> Most of the time I was able to run fully automated. Have to find a way to get fldigi to talk to the FT-736
[03:32] <Burninate> Its antenna appears to have near-0db gain
[03:32] <vk3vcl-p> That would be good
[03:33] <vk3vcl-p> Burninate, Task Arecibo!
[03:33] <vk3jed> Urk@ another forum
[03:33] <Prometheus> http://teamprometheus.org/forum
[03:33] <Burninate> It talks on a 2GHz-ish band, while the Deep Space Network has migrated to 8.4ghz
[03:33] <Prometheus> Well this one we hope to share relavant information
[03:33] <Burninate> "The previously linked pdf puts the up/downlinks around 2.0/2.2GHz; the same band used for the Apollo missions, which figures given the era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_S-band).
[03:33] <Burninate> Currently, the entire Deep-Space Network is on ~8.4GHz.
[03:33] <Burninate> Re-equipping a multinational network for S-band could quite possibly a significant budgetary issue given how little love have been NASA getting in recent years."
[03:34] <vk3jed> It's the ugly navigation and slow responses I can't handle
[03:34] <Burninate> Figure out how to do it using SDR and submit the proposal fast, the Earth approach is in August
[03:34] <vk3vcl-p> Burninate, 2.4 GHz is very popular here... try getting some hams on board
[03:35] <Prometheus> what are we talking about did I miss something?
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[03:35] <Burninate> Prometheus, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7199692
[03:35] <vk3vcl-p> Prometheus, yes, Burninate is plotting world domination...
[03:36] <Darkside> burninating the countryside
[03:36] <Darkside> burninating the peasants
[03:36] <Burninate> There is a satellite that's been in heliocentric orbit for 31 years that is coming up on a near Earth approach
[03:36] <Burninate> It seems there's sufficient hydrazine fuel onboard for a recapture into L2 or some other Earth orbit
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[03:37] <Prometheus> Hey this is interesting
[03:37] <Burninate> But NASA can't talk to it because ground-side radio comms scarcity
[03:37] <Prometheus> Right now we are working to build a network
[03:37] <Prometheus> for amatures
[03:38] <Prometheus> We have our mission control that can track satellites
[03:38] <Prometheus> and we can hand off comms to other stations
[03:38] <Burninate> This will probably require a rather high-gain antenna
[03:38] <Darkside> theres those european guys with the 20m dish
[03:39] <Prometheus> Yes we have alt/as helicals
[03:39] <vk3jed> Interesting
[03:39] <Darkside> Prometheus: you dont seem to get how much gain they're going to nd
[03:39] <Darkside> its going to require a dish many mtres in diamter
[03:39] <Prometheus> you can build yourself one pretty easy
[03:39] <Darkside> need
[03:39] <vk3jed> Think we're talking large dish territory
[03:39] <Darkside> like 20m and up likely
[03:39] <Prometheus> For that we are working with Robert Brans in Aus
[03:39] <Darkside> biiiiiig dish
[03:40] <Burninate> They receded from 2kbit/s at 2ghz down to 64bps near the sun
[03:40] <Prometheus> working on 30m dishes
[03:40] <vk3jed> Nice
[03:40] <Darkside> pff
[03:40] <Burninate> using the Apollo-era Deep Space Network
[03:40] <Darkside> that needs $$$$$$$$
[03:40] <Darkside> dunno where he's going to gt it from
[03:40] <Prometheus> Robert is trying to aquire the dishes
[03:40] <Burninate> (60-70m dishes)
[03:40] <Darkside> Burninate: whats the sats name?
[03:40] <Burninate> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7199692
[03:40] <Burninate> ICE/ISEE-3
[03:40] <Darkside> k
[03:41] <Prometheus> One of the dishes is in Aus
[03:41] <Prometheus> the other is in California
[03:41] <Burninate> honestly it's not like you would need complete coverage
[03:41] <Prometheus> right
[03:41] <Burninate> you would just need the capacity to get *some* signal there
[03:41] <vk3jed> :)
[03:41] <Burninate> to tell it how to burn
[03:41] <vk3jed> Though you also need to be able to receive any replies
[03:41] <vk3jed> For telemetry, etc
[03:42] <Prometheus> This spacecraft would be a bit exceptional
[03:42] <Burninate> they last spoke to it in 2008 apparently?
[03:42] <vk3jed> And the earth turns
[03:42] <Burninate> but some capacity has deteriorated since then? not sure.
[03:42] <Prometheus> but LEO's are doable for amatures
[03:42] <Burninate> the article is absolute crap, but I can't find that many details elsewhere - what I've found are in the comments
[03:42] <vk3jed> Yeah, LEOs are
[03:43] <Burninate> This will not be LEO
[03:43] <Burninate> At least, its last maneauvering burn was in 1985, to set it on a course for an August 10, 2014 'Lunar Swingby'
[03:44] <Burninate> Others note it will 'Enter the Earth-Moon System'
[03:44] <vk3vcl-p> http://lmdsro.com/ has a dish that would suit you ... Hmmm
[03:44] <Burninate> but precise ephemera is something I have not yet tracked down
[03:44] <Burninate> ran into a dead-end with NTRS
[03:45] <Prometheus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFVMgIJ95pE&list=UUMJfps-r-L1YcN8RD_s8ubA
[03:45] <Prometheus> This is a good size for LEO
[03:45] <Burninate> If they don't manage to recapture, I expect the gravity assist is going to send it into some wacky eccentric orbit and we'll never see it again
[03:46] <Burninate> apparently there is some comet dust that may be recoverable
[03:46] <Burninate> but that may be an exaggeration
[03:46] <Prometheus> Yeah that spacecraft would need a serious dish to comm
[03:46] <Burninate> That spacecraft has no dish whatsoever.
[03:46] <Prometheus> and that cost money
[03:46] <Burninate> onboard I mean
[03:47] <Prometheus> the ground station
[03:47] <Burninate> so you would need to substitute db on the ground for db on the bird
[03:47] <Prometheus> right
[03:47] <Burninate> does anyone do phased-array SDR?
[03:47] <Prometheus> So we would have to aquire a BIG dis for comms
[03:48] <Burninate> or is that de facto military-only tech
[03:48] <adwiens_KC0WYS> why not one of those dishes for the old satellite tv networks
[03:48] <Prometheus> A phased array is possiable if we could establish an amature net
[03:48] <adwiens_KC0WYS> they used to be everywhere
[03:49] <Prometheus> A real amature network is posiable
[03:49] <adwiens_KC0WYS> maybe theyre not big enough
[03:49] <Prometheus> for sure a 3 meter dish is far tooo small
[03:50] <Burninate> or do phased arrays lose efficiency too much
[03:50] <Prometheus> for comms with that spacecraft you will need at least a 30m dish
[03:50] <Darkside> dpnds how you do it i guess
[03:50] <Prometheus> true
[03:50] <Darkside> for handover the DSN technically does phased array styff
[03:50] <Darkside> their timing requirements are ridiculous though
[03:50] <Burninate> Prometheus, is that based on some numerical calc?
[03:51] <Prometheus> it's called link budget
[03:51] <Darkside> i cant remember the figure, but their timing accuracy was one part in 10^17 or somthign silly
[03:51] <Darkside> and that was to sync the transmitters appropriatly
[03:51] <Prometheus> GPS time can be used
[03:51] <Burninate> My thinking goes - if they were able to communicate at 64bps at AU-distances using big dishes, it may be plausible to communicate at 64bps at lunar-distances with a much smaller dish
[03:51] <Darkside> 'gps time can b used'
[03:51] <Darkside> Prometheus: i dont think thats good enough
[03:51] <Prometheus> or we can use an atomic clock
[03:51] <Darkside> i dunno how they did it
[03:52] <Darkside> Prometheus: you're missing th epoint hre
[03:52] <Prometheus> They can be bought for $500 now
[03:52] <Darkside> you ned a *global* accurate timebase
[03:52] <Burninate> though if it needs to burn now to *get into position* for a recapture in August, then it's no-go
[03:52] <Darkside> Prometheus: a $500 unit wouldn't be suitable for this i think
[03:52] <Prometheus> Hey if they can do it we can do it~!
[03:52] <Darkside> you're talking biiiig money
[03:53] <Prometheus> yeah
[03:53] <Darkside> i remember the enginer i was talking to mention something about the clock taking somthing like 2 months to get to th required stability
[03:53] <Prometheus> We are seeking funding
[03:53] <Prometheus> in the 100 million range just for a start
[03:53] <Darkside> anyway, this for handover stuff
[03:53] <Darkside> for a single dish, far easier
[03:53] <Darkside> far far far easier
[03:53] <Prometheus> right
[03:54] <Prometheus> you do have to start somewhere
[03:54] <andy_vk3yt> thanks to the tracker of PSPI, we recovered the balloon and are heading home
[03:54] <Prometheus> for 1 mil I can aquire a 30m dish I know that
[03:54] <Burninate> good to what frequency?
[03:54] <vk3vcl-p> Use OCT Carnarvon... Its sitting there doing nothing...
[03:54] <Darkside> andy_vk3yt: good luck
[03:54] <Darkside> andy_vk3yt: argh, i mean, good job
[03:54] <Darkside> lol
[03:55] <Prometheus> Yeah great flight man!
[03:55] <Prometheus> enjoyed it
[03:55] <andy_vk3yt> bit hot here, 42 degrees :)
[03:55] <Darkside> andy_vk3yt: so i tak it you used RTTY to get th landing position
[03:55] <vk3vcl-p> Good on you Andy.. Safe travels.. Do you want this log?
[03:55] <andy_vk3yt> no it was APRS, we could get the packets from the road
[03:55] <Darkside> andy_vk3yt: ahh ok
[03:56] <andy_vk3yt> thanks Wayne, please send
[03:56] <vk3vcl-p> ack
[03:56] <Darkside> really CBF flying aprs anymode
[03:56] <Darkside> RTTY works fin
[03:56] <Darkside> i really need to gt this floater finished
[03:56] <vk3vcl-p> Ok folks.. its been grand but a swimming pool and many cool beverages await...
[03:56] <Darkside> got th payload, got the gas
[03:56] <Darkside> got the balloons
[03:56] <Darkside> don't have the time
[03:56] <Darkside> haha
[03:56] <andy_vk3yt> we almost get to the the balloon landing, but didn't zoom the map enough ;)
[03:56] <Burninate> wait, is OCT Carnarvon for sale for $1M?
[03:56] <vk3vcl-p> Prometheus, Good luck with you project.. I shall look in from time to time
[03:57] <Burninate> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTC_Satellite_Earth_Station_Carnarvon
[03:57] <Prometheus> Great!
[03:57] <Burninate> Or did you get a quote for a steerable 30m telescope?
[03:57] <vk3vcl-p> Burninate, No, but it could eaisly be operated bu a small team.. Everything is there, you just need radio equipment.
[03:57] <Prometheus> Sign up and report or give me a link for some dat if you like
[03:58] <Prometheus> I'm going to start making reports for flights if people allow
[03:58] <Burninate> Prometheus: Do you have a link to this network you're looking at building?
[03:58] <Prometheus> Our mission control will come online before April
[03:59] <Prometheus> It will be the main node
[03:59] <Prometheus> When we come online we will be able to give access to it
[03:59] <Burninate> what is the project called?
[03:59] <vk3vcl-p> Sounds like SkyNet
[03:59] <Burninate> I don't know anything about it
[03:59] <Prometheus> X-11E Condore
[04:00] <Prometheus> Our filght in April
[04:00] <Prometheus> IT's a rocket plane
[04:00] <Burninate> oh
[04:00] <Prometheus> But it will be the beginning of the mission control
[04:01] <Prometheus> If you have internet access and a fair connect speed you can run a console on our mission control
[04:01] <Burninate> what is the corporation running this?
[04:02] <Prometheus> The software is a derivitive of MavProxy
[04:02] <Prometheus> Designed for UAV's
[04:02] Action: Burninate is confused
[04:02] <Prometheus> Team Prometheus
[04:02] <Burninate> Is this a suborbital vehicle?
[04:02] <Prometheus> It's complicated :)
[04:03] <Prometheus> Yes
[04:03] <Burninate> What is the target altitude?
[04:03] <Prometheus> but our mission control can track and hand off satellites as well
[04:03] <Prometheus> 100 kft this time
[04:04] <Burninate> What is the design target for this line of craft?
[04:04] <Prometheus> If all goes well in July our rockoon will reach space
[04:04] <Prometheus> then next year the X-12A will attempt space
[04:05] <Burninate> orbital?
[04:05] <Prometheus> that's the plan in a nutshell
[04:05] <Prometheus> no sub orbital
[04:05] <Burninate> what is 'space' in this context, 100km?
[04:06] <Prometheus> If the X-12A is successful then we will make plans for an airdroped mission that could be orbital
[04:06] <Prometheus> From a Mig 29
[04:06] <Prometheus> but that's down the road
[04:07] <Prometheus> Space is yes 100km
[04:07] <Prometheus> or better
[04:07] <Prometheus> 6 year old project now
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[04:08] <Burninate> I became rather dismayed when I recognized the vast gulf between getting something to 'space' and getting it into an orbit
[04:09] <Burninate> and how far even amateur rocketry was from 'space'
[04:09] <Burninate> All projects have to start suborbital of course
[04:09] <Prometheus> yes 17,500 mph or 8km/s is really fast
[04:10] <Prometheus> Yes of course we have to start with just acheving space
[04:10] <Burninate> you had me confusing you with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prometheus_%28spacecraft%29 for a moment
[04:11] <Prometheus> So far it's taken this long to develop just the infrastuctur to acomplish this much
[04:12] <Prometheus> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-Prometheus/213171526223?ref=hl
[04:12] <Prometheus> you can see our progress here
[04:12] <Burninate> Apparently TDRS rents commercial dish capacity for satellite command and control from GSO
[04:12] <Burninate> for order $100/minute
[04:13] <Prometheus> Right and did you see the cost?
[04:13] <Prometheus> yeah
[04:13] <Burninate> it would represent a very inexpensive part of the program while it's suborbital.
[04:13] <Prometheus> we need an amature network
[04:14] <Burninate> just need a few minutes of comms per launch
[04:14] <Prometheus> We helped out Ardusat
[04:14] <Prometheus> I can track and comm with a cubesat
[04:14] <Prometheus> on orbit
[04:15] <Burninate> erm... how?
[04:15] <Prometheus> other amatures can join together with our mission control and we can hand off
[04:15] Action: Burninate has been critical of the low capabilities of what he's seen so far from cubesats
[04:16] <Prometheus> With out tracker!
[04:16] <Prometheus> our
[04:16] Action: Burninate thinks something larger, maybe 9U-46U, is probably going to happen reasonably soon as a standard
[04:16] <Burninate> *9U to 36U
[04:16] <Prometheus> a 15bd 433 helical
[04:17] <Prometheus> No I doubt that for now anyway
[04:17] <Burninate> in the next five years
[04:17] <Prometheus> perhaps in 10 years
[04:17] <Prometheus> comercial space will take longer
[04:18] <Burninate> erm
[04:18] <Prometheus> I do wish it would happen faster
[04:18] <Burninate> Do you mean you will be using your 3U cubesat to control a suborbital launch as it passes the horizon?
[04:18] <Prometheus> It took avation 50 years
[04:19] <Prometheus> No I mean we can collect data from cubsats in orbit
[04:19] <Burninate> using the network you are requesting $100M to build?
[04:19] <Prometheus> control cubsats
[04:19] <Prometheus> No that is another project
[04:20] <Prometheus> that is a comercial project
[04:20] <Burninate> okay.
[04:20] <Prometheus> and It's Robert Brands baby
[04:20] <Prometheus> we just support it
[04:20] <Burninate> Are you working towards providing general service for the cubesat fleet?
[04:20] <Prometheus> That's the idea
[04:21] <Prometheus> launch and comm services
[04:21] <Burninate> Who pays for this?
[04:21] <Prometheus> so far mostly me
[04:22] <Prometheus> Our Team and a few small investors
[04:22] <Prometheus> Team Prometheus is non-profit amatures
[04:22] <Burninate> Are you 'Monroe'?
[04:22] <Prometheus> Yes I am Monroe
[04:23] <Burninate> reading your thread :)
[04:23] <Burninate> Does Team Prometheus have a website of its own?
[04:23] <Prometheus> Just google Team Prometheus
[04:23] <Burninate> doh
[04:23] <Prometheus> yes
[04:23] <Burninate> In my defense, I tried earlier and got nada, must have misspelled it
[04:24] <Prometheus> I update the facebook page more often
[04:24] <Prometheus> We now have a (another) new website
[04:24] <Prometheus> and a webmaster
[04:24] <Prometheus> so we are trying to present what we know to the public
[04:25] <Burninate> are you trying to work with the ELANA program, or as an independent contractor for university cubesat teams?
[04:25] <Prometheus> Independent
[04:25] <Prometheus> We don't want to snuggle up with NASA or anyone else
[04:26] <Prometheus> We want to offer low cost launch services
[04:26] <Prometheus> to the people that want it
[04:26] <Prometheus> people like you
[04:26] <Prometheus> :)
[04:26] <Burninate> I am in like
[04:27] <Prometheus> We have a company Aeronautic Enterprises Inc.
[04:27] <Prometheus> That will do comercial stuff
[04:28] <Prometheus> But Team Prometheus is really trying to develop the means
[04:28] <Prometheus> The launch in April is very key to our future
[04:29] <Prometheus> Having the FAA really involved and the complexity of our mission
[04:30] <Prometheus> Not just waiver stuff
[04:32] <Burninate> you should hang out in #space
[04:32] <Prometheus> perhaps but my time is limited
[04:32] <Burninate> we have one of the ex-Masten guys there
[04:32] <Prometheus> and balloons are a big bart of our mission
[04:32] <Burninate> k
[04:33] <Prometheus> Yeah I know Dave Masten and John Carmack and I could drop some more names
[04:33] <Prometheus> These guy's are all on Arocket
[04:34] <Prometheus> arocket@freelists.org
[04:35] <Prometheus> We discuss nity grity stuff there
[04:35] <Prometheus> your welcome to join
[04:35] <Burninate> thanks
[04:35] <Prometheus> NONE of them like my balloon stuff though!
[04:35] <Prometheus> lol
[04:36] <Prometheus> I complain about how dumb it is to launch small rockets from the ground all the time
[04:36] <Burninate> it seems somewhat limiting, depending on how heavy a load you can loft with practical balloon fabrics
[04:36] <Prometheus> Carry them up to 30km and make it into space
[04:37] <Burninate> if your goal is orbit, I mean
[04:37] <Prometheus> Well not with balloons
[04:37] <Prometheus> but to make it into sapce it's the cheapest way
[04:38] <Burninate> is there a point at which the fabric just won't take the load?
[04:38] <Prometheus> But for smaller orbital stuff drop launching from haigh altitude fighter aircraft is the cheapest way to make orbit
[04:38] <Burninate> what's the maximum balloon payload that's exceeded 30km?
[04:39] <Burninate> *maximum mass
[04:39] <Prometheus> depends on the balloon
[04:39] <Prometheus> 2000 lbs is doable for sure
[04:39] <SIbot> In real units: 2000 lbs = 907.2 kg
[04:39] <adwiens_KC0WYS> 200 lbs
[04:39] <SIbot> In real units: 200 lbs = 90.7 kg
[04:39] <Prometheus> you could do more
[04:39] <adwiens_KC0WYS> 2000 lbs
[04:39] <SIbot> In real units: 2000 lbs = 907.2 kg
[04:39] <adwiens_KC0WYS> 2000 lbs
[04:39] <SIbot> In real units: 2000 lbs = 907.2 kg
[04:40] <adwiens_KC0WYS> silly sibot :P
[04:40] <adwiens_KC0WYS> night y'all
[04:40] <Prometheus> But I have a 170,000 cft Raven that can carry 100lbs to 100 kft
[04:40] <SIbot> In real units: 100 lbs = 45.4 kg
[04:41] <Prometheus> And that enough to easily make space
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[04:41] Action: Burninate is unfamiliar with the required dv to orbit from low pressure regime
[04:41] <Prometheus> Much more east yo deal with than Million cft balloons
[04:42] <Prometheus> There are 2 main advantages
[04:42] <Prometheus> Small rocket suffer greatly from drag
[04:42] <Burninate> To get a 5kg cubesat launched into space *from the ground*, you'd probably need more than 1000kg, right?
[04:42] <Prometheus> bigger rockets have less drag
[04:43] <Burninate> yeah, so you're not gonna maintain a 1-3% payload mass fraction as you scale down
[04:43] <Prometheus> You can optimize the nozzles for vacuum and gain Isp as well
[04:43] Action: Burninate nods
[04:44] <Prometheus> For orbit like I said it makes more sense to drop from a high fast moving fighter
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[04:44] <Burninate> is the fighter just for altitude or initial dV?
[04:45] <Prometheus> but to reach space for low cost a rockoon is surely the cheapes best way
[04:45] <Prometheus> Yes that's right
[04:45] <Prometheus> Much like the pegasus
[04:46] <Burninate> Doesn't a small HALE drone get you 70kft without the fuss?
[04:46] <Prometheus> Except for an even bigger boost for a small orbital launcher higher altitude and higer inital DV
[04:47] <Prometheus> Tha would ok but their payload isand speed wount match a fighter
[04:47] <Prometheus> or altitude either
[04:47] <Prometheus> Think 90,000 ft at Mach 2.5
[04:47] <SIbot> In real units: 90,000 ft = 27 km
[04:48] <Burninate> at what price?
[04:48] <Burninate> also: Supersonic separation?
[04:48] <Prometheus> Yep
[04:48] <Burninate> sounds iffy
[04:49] <Prometheus> To get an idea about that check out "Project Pilot" or "Notsnik"
[04:49] <Prometheus> That's how the whole Team Prometheus thing got started
[04:50] <Prometheus> It has already been done it's not my idea
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[04:51] <Prometheus> Nither are rockoons credit Van Allen for that
[04:51] <Prometheus> But these techknologies are what amatures need
[04:52] <Prometheus> not big honkin rockets
[04:52] <Burninate> is this a single-stage liquid fueled rocketplane?
[04:52] <Prometheus> single stage solid in April
[04:52] <Prometheus> 2 stage rockoon in July
[04:53] <Prometheus> # stage spaceplane the following year if that all pans out
[04:53] <Prometheus> 3 stage
[04:53] <Prometheus> All solids
[04:53] <Prometheus> Here is the booster stage test
[04:54] <Burninate> are you aiming for 3U launch capability?
[04:54] <Prometheus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYG__m_MFYc
[04:55] <Prometheus> Yes P Pod compatiable
[04:55] <Prometheus> The P Pod is the payload bay
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[04:56] <Prometheus> The rocket motor test is a "Q" impluse
[04:57] <Prometheus> First stage booster for our space plane
[04:58] <Prometheus> Yes we have a long way to go but we have come to far to turn back
[04:59] <Prometheus> We did what no other team has done we built a real mission control and the infrastructer to really handel the flights
[05:00] <Prometheus> We have a launch site at Matagorda Peninsula with an orbital window
[05:00] <Prometheus> and a private air field that can support a Mig
[05:01] <Prometheus> Still a long way to go but that's the plan
[05:01] <Prometheus> A network of amature ground sattions is needed
[05:01] <Prometheus> We don't want to relie on anyone that can pull the rug out from under us
[05:02] <Burninate> Do you have a uniform standard for a ground station node?
[05:02] <Prometheus> Yes
[05:02] <Prometheus> One that can handel 150 targets
[05:03] <Prometheus> so it will be useful to many
[05:03] <Burninate> huh?
[05:03] <Prometheus> It can track balloons too
[05:03] <Prometheus> until there is enough need in orbit
[05:03] <Burninate> What exactly does the number of targets constrain?
[05:04] <Prometheus> We can support the balloon community
[05:04] <Prometheus> 150 craft anywhere in the world
[05:04] <Prometheus> there are ground stations to track
[05:04] <Burninate> Do you have standardized equipment that you deploy at an amateur ground station?
[05:04] <Burninate> Do you have a spec they have to meet?
[05:05] <Prometheus> We onlt need to decide on Frequency
[05:05] <Burninate> How do you roll out a given node?
[05:05] <Prometheus> You have to have an alt/as tracker and a console and that's it
[05:06] <Prometheus> with a fair internet connection
[05:06] <Prometheus> console runs on just about any pc
[05:06] <Burninate> you don't specify a certain transmitting power or gain or anything?
[05:07] <Prometheus> We don't really know yet how low gain we can go
[05:07] <Prometheus> but I imagine for balloons something like 300mw
[05:07] <Prometheus> More than enough
[05:08] <Prometheus> depending on ground station spacing
[05:08] <Prometheus> Actually the ground stations cost about $500
[05:08] <Prometheus> To build
[05:09] <Prometheus> If you use a Celestron or Meade GOTO telescope for your alt/as mount
[05:09] <Prometheus> Even the old GT type telescope is good enough
[05:10] <Prometheus> depending on the freq
[05:10] <Prometheus> that would be the best way to start it
[05:10] <Burninate> I see you were writing about getting a multi-helical tracker working?
[05:10] <Burninate> did that go anywhere?
[05:10] <Prometheus> I can track Ardusat with it :)
[05:11] <Prometheus> I could do a hand off to another node
[05:11] <Burninate> You're trying to convince people to join a network of nonprofit amateur telescope C&C antennas.
[05:11] <Prometheus> and maintain telemetry
[05:12] <Burninate> I imagine you would want a slickly packaged description of the minimum practical unit that you could build a functional network out of, what it costs, and how to put it together.
[05:12] <Prometheus> something like that yeah
[05:12] <Prometheus> Yep we are going to offer it to the world after the April Mission
[05:13] <Burninate> the multi-helical tracker is for locating the signal given imprecise ephemera, right?
[05:13] <Burninate> it's, in effect, a 5-pixel homing device
[05:13] <Prometheus> Well we may go with only one freq
[05:14] <Prometheus> Right the aparture of the antenna is 15 degrees
[05:14] <Prometheus> We are working on a RSSI function to center the signal
[05:15] <Burninate> you would feed it a command like 'keep wiggling around until you have a maximum signal from the center antenna and equal signals from these four side antennas'
[05:15] <Prometheus> but the network can get you in the ball park
[05:15] <Prometheus> Right and once centered you hand off to them
[05:16] <Burninate> what do you call that mode of automated tracking?
[05:16] <Burninate> and does it work with only one antenna?
[05:16] <Burninate> I'm not a radio guy really
[05:16] <Prometheus> It will work with any alt/as antenna
[05:16] <Prometheus> From little bitty to giant
[05:16] <Burninate> what's the feedback loop there?
[05:17] <Burninate> constant dithering back and forth and recentering?
[05:17] <Prometheus> it's an open engine
[05:17] <Prometheus> not closed
[05:17] <Prometheus> Perhaps in the future it could be much more
[05:18] <Prometheus> depending on how much fun it is
[05:18] <Burninate> I've had a touch of experience and a lot more reading about UAVs
[05:18] <Prometheus> I'm sure it could be developed much more
[05:18] <Burninate> for which one cannot really rely on up-to-date, accurate ephemeris, at low altitude
[05:18] <Prometheus> Yep UAV's where the techknology that made this possiable
[05:19] <Burninate> it always seemed like a closed-loop automatic tracker was one component of the minimum standard necessary to really get things usable
[05:19] <Prometheus> Our ground control is a deritive of Andrew Trigwell's MavProxy
[05:21] <Prometheus> http://tridge.github.io/MAVProxy/
[05:22] <Prometheus> Beginning to see how this works?
[05:23] <Burninate> Beginning :)
[05:23] <Prometheus> An entire amature space program
[05:23] <Burninate> sorry to take up so much of your time, this is interesting
[05:23] <Prometheus> Well it's my lifes work I dont mind so much ;)
[05:24] <Prometheus> The space guy's want big fancy stuff
[05:25] <Prometheus> They don't like my ideas so much
[05:25] <Prometheus> when they really aren't my ideas
[05:25] <Prometheus> All my stuff is based on Van Allens work and The Notsnik project
[05:25] <Burninate> I'm up for anything that can launch payloads to orbit cheaply
[05:26] <Prometheus> we are still a ways off but if you can understand everything we are doing is required first
[05:27] <Prometheus> Many teams foucs on rockets
[05:27] <Prometheus> With out considering the infrastucture required for a space program
[05:28] <Prometheus> What are you going to do? Rely on NASA or someone else to support you?
[05:28] <Prometheus> That cost too much!
[05:28] <Prometheus> We ned our own space network
[05:29] <Burninate> I'm not convinced cubesats are going anywhere at 10cm scale.
[05:29] <Burninate> even if interest is booming
[05:29] <Prometheus> Well you have to start somewhere!
[05:29] <Burninate> 20cm or 30cm or 50cm cubes, on the other hand...
[05:30] <Prometheus> once an infrastructure is established many more things become possiable
[05:30] <Burninate> A system based on 50cm cubes, you can build a reasonable small-scale space telescope on.
[05:31] <Prometheus> As long as we have to rely on NASA or big money we will be stuck
[05:31] <Burninate> with not only resillient attitude control, but ion propulsion and laser comms
[05:31] <Prometheus> Right but we need to be IN space to work on things like that
[05:31] <Burninate> yup
[05:32] <Prometheus> When small folks like us can make a difference
[05:32] <Prometheus> the guy's that WANT to do it
[05:32] <Prometheus> Anyway
[05:33] <Prometheus> It's a really hard fight
[05:33] <Prometheus> but I'm in it for life
[05:33] <Prometheus> Lot's of folks put me down
[05:33] <Prometheus> it's ok
[05:34] <Prometheus> Perhaps April launch will turn things around
[05:34] <Prometheus> we will see
[05:34] <Prometheus> But I'm always a bolloon guy it the way to go for cheap sapce
[05:34] <Prometheus> great fun and good times
[05:35] <Burninate> good luck
[05:35] <Prometheus> Thanks
[05:35] <Prometheus> Anyway's I'm talking too much in a new place
[05:36] <Prometheus> I better shut up for a while
[05:36] <Prometheus> I don't want to detract from the good stuff going on here
[05:37] <Prometheus> I really like it here feels homy
[05:37] <Prometheus> ;)
[05:37] <Prometheus> 73's and godspeed young man
[05:38] <Prometheus> nite
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[08:43] <jcoxon> morning all
[08:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> mornink jcoxon
[08:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> morning i mean ;-)
[08:44] <jcoxon> SP9UOB-Tom, when is your next HF launch?
[08:44] <jcoxon> :-D
[08:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> jcoxon: im working on 3 band tracker :-)
[08:46] <jcoxon> !
[08:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> wspr+aprs at 30 m, domex or thor at 20 and 10m :-)
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[08:46] <jcoxon> wow
[08:47] <jcoxon> sounds complicated
[08:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> antena design will be tricky
[08:48] <jcoxon> yes
[08:49] <gurgalof> what kind of transmitter do you use on your HF trackers?
[08:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> gurgalof: home made, based on DDS chip, then comparator to get square wave and class E final stage
[08:53] <gurgalof> sound nice, would love to see more HF ballons, so we can track them from very far away
[08:54] <jcoxon> gurgalof, its a a really challenge to track, but also very cool
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[08:56] <gurgalof> fadeing and all of that, probably FEC should be used on the tracker
[08:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> gurgalof: this is my 50 MHz design http://sp9uob.verox.pl/balon/tracker-50MHz.jpg
[08:58] <gurgalof> make a SMD version of it
[08:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pliki/dds.jpg
[08:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> and this one went to east siberia :-)
[08:59] <mclane> concerning FEC: where can I find hints how to implement reed solomon for shorter messages? the usual implementation is for 223 bytes payload and 32 bytes parity
[08:59] <mclane> I am looking for something like 48 bytes payload and 16 bytes parity or less
[09:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> gurgalof: i have SMD version http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/picov4-1-front.jpg
[09:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://sp9uob.verox.pl/pico/picov4-1-back.jpg
[09:00] <mclane> since only numbers are relevant; symbol size may be reduced to nibbles?
[09:01] <SP9UOB-Tom> mclane: forget the numbers - use binary 1
[09:01] <gurgalof> SP9UOB-Tom: that one looks really nice!
[09:02] <Upu> mclane http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:hatty
[09:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> Morning Anthony :-)
[09:03] <Upu> morning
[09:05] <SP9UOB-Tom> mclane: binary encoded + turbo codes :-)
[09:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> + soft decision
[09:07] <mclane> thanks Anthony - what is turbo code, Tom?
[09:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> mclane: strong error correction code (allmost reaching theorietical limits)
[09:08] <SP9UOB-Tom> mclane: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo_code
[09:08] <mclane> just reading that - looks complicated ;-)
[09:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> mclane> much complicated on receiver side
[09:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> it must pass to decoder info "how much 1 it is"
[09:12] <mclane> I will probably start with something like HaTTY + RS(15,9)
[09:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> time for walk - CU all :-)
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[10:11] <fsphil> ah some nice pics from last nights flights
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[10:34] <fsphil> but no word from KT5TK
[10:34] <fsphil> suspect it should have shown up by now
[10:35] <fsphil> unless it's doing circles over the atlantic
[10:36] <jcoxon> from the state of the weather here i suspect it would have gone straight over
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[10:46] <Prometheus> hey fsphil yeah no word yet
[10:46] <Prometheus> we need a UAS boat to go out there and digipete
[10:46] <Prometheus> lol
[10:47] <Prometheus> something solar powered
[10:47] <fsphil> an atlantic aprs network of buoys
[10:48] <Prometheus> if it wrent so deep!
[10:48] <fsphil> jcoxon had pondered something like that
[10:48] <jcoxon> yes
[10:48] <jcoxon> so cool
[10:48] <jcoxon> one day
[10:48] <Prometheus> you could teather a balloon to a autonimus boat
[10:49] <Darkside> tethered balloons suck
[10:49] <Darkside> too much drag
[10:49] <Prometheus> yeah they do
[10:49] <Darkside> slightst bit of wind and they'll drop
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[10:49] <jcoxon> there was a project that launched tethered balloons to get buoys out to sea
[10:49] <Prometheus> yeah true
[10:49] <jcoxon> from florida
[10:49] <jcoxon> basically an inflated sail
[10:49] <Prometheus> berhaps a boat with an HF trans
[10:49] <jcoxon> to get them away from the coast
[10:49] <fsphil> we would ideally need to launch them from the US
[10:50] <fsphil> they'd probably slowly drift towards europe
[10:50] <Prometheus> hummm perhaps a sa0.il boat?
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[10:52] <fsphil> moving at any speed needs lots of power
[10:52] <fsphil> or complicated sails
[10:52] <LeoBodnar> has KT5TK showed up?
[10:52] <Prometheus> well as long as it could circle once it gets there
[10:52] <fsphil> it's pretty horrible out there and I doubt a sail would last more than a few months
[10:53] <Prometheus> if you could deploy it and roll it back up perhaos
[10:54] <Prometheus> lol were nuts
[10:54] <Prometheus> lol
[10:54] <fsphil> microtransat is a competition to sail an atonomous (sp?) boat across the atlantic
[10:55] <Prometheus> that sounds interesting but too many projects going
[10:55] <fsphil> hehe yea. I started building one but quickly hit a problem. I'm rubbish at mechanics
[10:55] <Prometheus> did you see the flying sub that crossed the atlantic?
[10:56] <fsphil> yea!
[10:56] <fsphil> that was such a simple system
[10:56] <Prometheus> rizing and diving pretty cool huh!
[10:56] <fsphil> all it does is rise and fall
[10:56] <fsphil> genius
[10:56] <Prometheus> yeah nice idea
[10:57] <fsphil> if only we could do the same thing in air
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[10:58] <fsphil> a balloon rising at 5m/s with wings might be able to have some control over the direction it heads
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[10:59] <fsphil> until it gets to the thinner air anyway
[11:01] <Prometheus> if you gould produce hydrogen from the air you might could rize and autorotate down
[11:03] <Prometheus> or you could land in the water and pick up water crack it and take off again
[11:03] <Darkside> uh
[11:03] <Darkside> the power you'd need to do that would be prohibitive
[11:03] <fsphil> yea
[11:03] <fsphil> I tried this with my 500W solar array, it was sloooow
[11:04] <Prometheus> well if you had solar you could stay in the water a few days
[11:04] <Prometheus> just thorwing out ideas
[11:04] <Prometheus> prob nothing
[11:05] <LeoBodnar> we need Jules Verne on the team
[11:06] <Prometheus> lol
[11:07] <Prometheus> sometime I hit mostly miss
[11:07] <Prometheus> but hits are so much fun!
[11:07] <Prometheus> lol
[11:08] <Prometheus> I wonder when someone will drop a quadrotor
[11:10] <Prometheus> I designed some rotos that would work at 30km
[11:10] <Darkside> .. how?
[11:10] <Darkside> i wouldnt hav thought there'd be enough air for it to thrust against
[11:13] <Prometheus> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=493471726223&set=a.216717276223.170913.213171526223&type=1&theater
[11:13] <Prometheus> The air up there is about the same as the surface of mars
[11:13] <Prometheus> I used a prop design program
[11:14] <Prometheus> But ones to lift a regular guad at 4ft across each
[11:14] <SIbot> In real units: 4 ft = 1.22 m
[11:14] <Prometheus> I just made the protype for a mold
[11:14] <Darkside> Ahh. SIbot
[11:15] <Darkside> SIbot: you are awesome
[11:15] <Prometheus> Yeah I like SIbot
[11:15] <Prometheus> I wonder if it will convert ft/sec
[11:16] <Prometheus> 300 ft/s
[11:16] <SIbot> In real units: 300 ft = 91 m
[11:16] <Prometheus> cool
[11:16] <Darkside> yah its not that smart
[11:16] <Darkside> hmm
[11:16] <Darkside> i think it just converts inchs/feet/yards/miles
[11:17] <Prometheus> and pounds
[11:17] <Prometheus> 50 toor
[11:17] <Prometheus> 50 torr
[11:18] <Prometheus> yeah not that
[11:18] <Prometheus> just checking lol
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[11:20] <Prometheus> But anyway I was going to use the big props and shed them at lower altitude
[11:21] <Prometheus> lost interest doing other things more relavant
[11:22] <Prometheus> it made a great shop fan though lol
[11:22] <Prometheus> turned really slow put out a lot of air
[11:24] <Prometheus> at 100kft it would have spun at 10,000 RPM
[11:28] <Prometheus> Ah yeah here's the program I used http://www.propgen.com/
[11:28] <Prometheus> It's pretty awesome for many reasons
[11:29] <Prometheus> Did you know X-Plane was derived from propeller software?
[11:30] <Prometheus> Thats how it calculates an airframe every frame
[11:31] <Prometheus> treats every surface like a propeller moving threw the air
[11:31] <Prometheus> cuts it up into sectiond too
[11:31] <Prometheus> then calculates
[11:32] <Prometheus> So the higher your framerate the more accurite it is
[11:32] <Prometheus> around 250 fps it really rocks
[11:34] <Prometheus> It's part of the reason we use ardupilot
[11:34] <Prometheus> because with it we can do HIL test
[11:35] <Prometheus> of rockets and spacecraft
[11:35] <Prometheus> in real time
[11:35] <Prometheus> Ok I'll shut up now
[11:36] <Prometheus> :)
[11:46] <Prometheus> Anyone here done any near space pano's?
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[11:47] <Prometheus> http://www.360cities.net/image/spectacular-1#1425.16,14.88,63.2
[11:48] <jcoxon> nice Prometheus
[11:49] <Prometheus> 6 gopro's
[11:49] <jcoxon> we've done a few panos
[11:50] <Prometheus> make sure you zoom out all the way and get rid of all the crap on the screen
[11:50] <jcoxon> e.g. on the front page of the wiki
[11:50] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/
[11:50] <Prometheus> OH I'd love to them!
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[11:51] <Prometheus> Can you tell me what section they are in?
[11:51] <Prometheus> wiki got it
[11:52] <Prometheus> Oh I see it
[11:52] <jcoxon> took a different approach though
[11:52] <Prometheus> is it somewhere it can be viewed in pano?
[11:52] <jcoxon> not in the 360
[11:52] <jcoxon> it was done before all that
[11:52] <jcoxon> :-)
[11:52] <Prometheus> :)
[11:52] <Prometheus> It's very pretty
[11:53] <Prometheus> Have you tried to upload it to 360?
[11:53] <Prometheus> it looks like it will work
[11:54] <Prometheus> mine look pretty much like that befoer they are uploaded
[11:54] <jcoxon> i haven't, not even sure where the original is
[11:54] <Prometheus> not as nice as your though yours looks great!
[11:54] <Prometheus> if it would it will really rock!
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[11:55] <Prometheus> hey gonzo
[11:55] <daveake> I'm probably going to have a go at generating a panoramic image in flight and then send it down
[11:55] <jcoxon> bbl
[11:56] <Prometheus> we where trying for pano video but the gopros lost sync
[11:56] <daveake> gopros suck, imo
[11:56] <Prometheus> early in the flight
[11:56] <daveake> I may be alone
[11:56] <Prometheus> Well for some thigs they sure do
[11:57] <Prometheus> for others not so bad
[11:57] <daveake> dodgy firmware; overheating issues; lens (though distortion can be fixed after)
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[11:58] <daveake> Those lens can show curvature of the Earth when still on the ground :/
[11:58] <Prometheus> they sometimes make great shots though
[11:58] <daveake> they're sharp, no doubt
[11:58] <Prometheus> the day we did the pano the air was too hazy
[11:59] <Prometheus> :(
[11:59] <Prometheus> And the sun was not in a good position
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[11:59] <Prometheus> so they where not crisp like they could have been
[12:00] <daveake> Yeah the weather is the biggest factor. This day was nice and clear though the pic was improved a bit with some extra contrast - http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/IMG_3444-1024x768.jpg
[12:00] <daveake> note balloon in shot at bottom :)
[12:01] <Prometheus> that balloon looks like a zero pressure balloon?
[12:01] <daveake> No justa regular latex
[12:01] <Prometheus> Very nice by the way
[12:01] <daveake> we launched 2 next to each other at the same time
[12:01] <Prometheus> Oh yeah the white ones I see now
[12:02] <daveake> They stayed together for quite a long time till the camera one sped up (it had H2 the other was He)
[12:02] <daveake> earlier in the flight - http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/IMG_2997-1024x768.jpg
[12:03] <daveake> That's Darkside's balloon
[12:03] <Prometheus> NICE
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[12:08] <Prometheus> Hi Bob
[12:09] <Prometheus> lol Bob is really my wife Raychell
[12:09] <Prometheus> :P
[12:10] <bobg> :-)
[12:10] <Prometheus> She loves ballooning too
[12:10] <Prometheus> but she's shy
[12:10] <Prometheus> lol
[12:10] <Prometheus> She's from Liverpool
[12:11] <Prometheus> :P
[12:12] <Prometheus> Ok you all told on ray
[12:12] <LeoBodnar> welcome bobg
[12:12] Action: daveake remembers Black Adder
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[12:12] <bobg> Thanks!
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> heh Dave have you settled in the new place?
[12:14] <daveake> Moving in just under 3 weeks
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> oh
[12:14] <daveake> So expect a launch in 4 :p
[12:14] <daveake> Exchanged contracts 1 week ago
[12:15] <Prometheus> congrats
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[12:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> afternoon all
[12:15] <daveake> The people we're buying from can't move into their new place yet so they need to move into rented, hence the delay
[12:15] <Prometheus> hey Tom
[12:17] <Prometheus> Man I hope it warms up today
[12:17] <Prometheus> so I can do more work on mission control
[12:19] <Prometheus> here's a shot of the console we are emulating https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152112554276224&set=a.216717276223.170913.213171526223&type=1&theater
[12:20] <Prometheus> STANAG 4586 NATO standard UAS console
[12:20] <Prometheus> for ballooning and rocket stuff :)
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[12:24] <Prometheus> stuffing all that in a truck slide in camper
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[13:37] <ibanezmatt13> well, as expected, the weather for next Saturday is utterly crap
[13:39] <chrisstubbs> :(
[13:39] <daveake> told you so :/
[13:39] <KT5TK> We're planning to launch KT5TK-4 around 16:30 UTC later today. 1600 g Hwoyee. Weather & predictions are fine in Houston.
[13:39] <ibanezmatt13> yea, I believe this wind is in til at least end of Feb
[13:40] <daveake> I think the weather is stuck in a Groundhog Day
[13:40] <daveake> Another 10 years it'll step on
[13:40] <ibanezmatt13> probably. Might be ok to launch a rocket though
[13:40] <daveake> oh look, wind and rain. again
[13:41] <ibanezmatt13> Got a nice AP G motor ready for flight
[13:41] <number10> whats the predicted flight duration KT5TK ?
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[13:44] <fsphil> we should all send our payloads to KT5TK
[13:44] <daveake> then he can send them back
[13:45] <KT5TK> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=bdfc6d8fd261c6ce1b0227d57f988846b17eeaea
[13:46] <KT5TK> We have 3xAA batteries, so power shouldn't be an issue
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[13:46] <Upu> balloon could be though
[13:46] <Upu> they've not made it through the morning for ages now
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[13:46] <Upu> go super super low ascent
[13:47] <KT5TK> We'll try.
[13:47] <Upu> try hit the expected float altitude at sunset
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[13:48] <KT5TK> We're launching at 10:30 am local time. That's long before sunset I fear.
[13:49] <Upu> whats the call sign ?
[13:49] <KT5TK> But with current fas winds it might work. KT5TK-4
[13:50] <KT5TK> OK, I'm off to the launch site.
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[13:58] <Prometheus> Good Luck KT5TK nice turn around time on launches
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[14:14] <mikestir> not launching that pico then fsphil?
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[14:42] <jcoxon> great day for balloon lauching ;-0
[14:43] <Upu> err
[14:43] <Upu> :)
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[15:03] <DL7AD> good afternoon!
[15:03] <DL7AD> Upu: ping
[15:04] <Upu> hi DL7AD
[15:05] <DL7AD> thomas told me he launches another balloon at 1630Z could you set up an gateway for KT5TK-4?
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[15:06] <Upu> yeah I'm sat waiting for it to appear
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[15:06] <DL7AD> *thumbs up*
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[15:21] <aadamson> kt5tk-4 is showing on aprs.fi btw, just not on spacenear - hasn't launched as best as I can tell, it's just at 0 alt :)
[15:23] <Upu> last update was 8 hours go
[15:23] <Upu> so I've not started the import yet
[15:23] <LeoBodnar> is it the same hardware?
[15:23] <Upu> more batteries and foil has been replaced with a 1600g latex
[15:24] <jcoxon> haha
[15:24] <jcoxon> proper flight then
[15:24] <Upu> :)
[15:24] <aadamson> ah, didn't look at the time... :)
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[15:54] <fsphil> mikestir: not today sorry
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[15:59] Action: jcoxon finally finds a 5v DC supply for his lipo charger
[15:59] <jcoxon> no more pesky 100mA USB
[15:59] <fsphil> is that a limitation of the charger or the USB port?
[16:00] <jcoxon> limitation of the Max1555 chip
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[16:08] <chrisstubbs> My new super 8 USB port ebay card reader wont copy files bigger than about 200mb :(
[16:11] <zyp> that doesn't make sense, card readers have no concept of files or file sizes in any way
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[16:22] <jededu> just making the payload antenna 70cm would attaching the ground wires to an aluminium foil base make any difference
[16:28] <LeoBodnar> ideal 1/4 wave GP is as good as ideal infinite ground
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[16:31] <jededu> Ok ill go with that then
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[16:59] <Upu> KT5TK-4 is up
[16:59] <DL7AD> balloon is lau7nched
[17:00] <DL7AD> oh too late...
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[17:03] <fsphil> it's not a competition to be first :) that's for when it bursts...
[17:06] <daveake> It's a shooting offence to say "burst" before it bursts :)
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[17:38] <KT5TK-7> Very calm launch here in Houston. 77 grams payload, 50 g lift
[17:39] <KT5TK-7> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FKT5TK-4&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[17:39] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[17:48] <APJHAB> Good evening everyone, I would like to test our tracker on spacenear.us, I can see the output of the parse working ok, any help would be appreciated
[17:57] <DL7AD> KT5TK-7: *thumbs up*
[18:01] <KT5TK-7> Thanks Sven!
[18:02] <KT5TK-7> Best regards from the group!
[18:03] <DL7AD> KT5TK-7: thanks thomas :)
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[18:55] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:03] <DL1SGP> nabend Kevin
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[19:10] <aadamson> I'm just curious, is there online predictors that help you understand how to create a *float* type launch.
[19:10] <aadamson> on otherwords, how do you do that? :)
[19:11] <jcoxon> aadamson, which type of balloon?
[19:11] <jcoxon> we've developed the concepts a bit trial and error
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[19:12] <aadamson> ah, ok, I figured maybe there was some *mathematical* way given some parameters... I don't even know how to ask the question actually, just curious how it's done
[19:13] <jcoxon> so pico balloons we've learnt that you need super lightweight payload
[19:13] <jcoxon> the lighter the easier it is to get it to float
[19:13] <jcoxon> then aim for ascent rate around 1.0m/s
[19:14] <aadamson> so just watching Thomas' launch today for example
[19:14] <jcoxon> for latex floaters its slightly easier, its best to use howyee 1600g balloon
[19:14] <jcoxon> then you calculate an ascent rate of 1-2 m/s
[19:14] <aadamson> at 1600g latex balloon with 77g payload and 50g lift (however you calculate the later?)
[19:14] <aadamson> what is it's *float going to be*...
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[19:15] <jcoxon> roughly 34km alt
[19:15] <daveake> Difficult to predict IMO
[19:15] <jcoxon> yes very, its just we've done lots and now sort of get how it works
[19:15] <daveake> Upu and I launched 2 at the same time, with similar weights and free lift
[19:15] <aadamson> oh really... it's at almost 20km at the moment 54k ft
[19:16] <daveake> Mine floated at 40km and his at 38km
[19:16] <jcoxon> yeah it'll slow down quite quickly
[19:16] <daveake> Mine ended up over Switzerland and his landed in Austria
[19:16] <aadamson> yeah winds were better lower too :)
[19:16] <aadamson> speed is almost half of what it was at 35-40k ft
[19:17] <aadamson> ok, so baby steps... how do you the *free lift* or what does that mean?
[19:17] <aadamson> do you calculate... sorry
[19:17] <jcoxon> oh we've got a calculator for that
[19:17] <jcoxon> http://habhub.org/calc/
[19:17] <daveake> neck lift is what the balloon can carry with neutral bouyancy
[19:18] <daveake> free lift is that minus payload weight
[19:20] <aadamson> ok, so I plugged in 77g, hwoyee 1600 and 1.5m/s ascent
[19:20] <aadamson> and I get some numbers
[19:20] <aadamson> it suggests it might be a floater how does it know that?
[19:20] <daveake> because of the low ascent rate
[19:21] <daveake> especially likely with a hwoyee 1600
[19:21] <aadamson> ok, this is more recursive than my head will handle.... and how do you predict the ascent rate?
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[19:21] <DL7AD> guten abend Felix DL1SGP, guten abend kevin Lunar_Lander ;)
[19:21] <aadamson> sorry for the death by paper cuts, if there is web content with this, just point me
[19:21] <jcoxon> so you can use the calc to do that
[19:21] <jcoxon> ignore the burst altitude
[19:21] <jcoxon> play with the numbers to get your ascent rate
[19:22] <aadamson> guess I don't understand, I either have to put in an ascent or a burst alt
[19:22] <daveake> yes
[19:22] <aadamson> so how can you *play* with numbers?
[19:23] <aadamson> to figure out what your ascent rate will be?
[19:23] <jcoxon> aadamson, i think you are coming at this the wrong way
[19:23] <jcoxon> so chose your ascent rate
[19:23] <daveake> If you're after a floater then you ask for <=2m/s
[19:23] <jcoxon> thats your aim
[19:23] <aadamson> ok, I get that
[19:23] <Lunar_Lander> hi DL1SGP , hi DL7AD
[19:23] <aadamson> but how do you build a launch for 1.5m/s what determines that?
[19:24] <aadamson> obviously lift capabilty and lift weight factor into that somehow
[19:24] <jcoxon> well you use the calc with ascent rate of 1.5 to find how much free lift
[19:24] <jcoxon> you need
[19:24] <jcoxon> then you fill your balloon
[19:25] <jcoxon> until it lifts a mass of equivelent to free lift calculation answer
[19:25] <jcoxon> to neutral
[19:25] <jcoxon> then you'll have gas in the balloon to lift the balloon+payload+freelift
[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> exactly, you need to ballast your filling adapter by attaching the mass you get from the calculator
[19:26] <jcoxon> and then you let it go and fingers crossed that it matches up
[19:27] <aadamson> yeah because you determined neutral boy at *launch altitude* so you have t hope that there is atmospherics that keep number similar as it rises all things being considered... ok... so I had to read back up and NL and FL etc... now I think I understand a bit better
[19:28] <jcoxon> aadamson, interestingly ascent rate is pretty constant
[19:28] <jcoxon> as increasing Surface area (due to balloon gets bigger) doesn't mean increasing drag
[19:28] <daveake> It is pretty much a straight line of time vs altitude
[19:28] <Lunar_Lander> must be due to temperature
[19:29] <aadamson> yep, makes sense
[19:29] <daveake> 2 exceptions - low fills (i.e. floaters) start of a bit slow as the balloon isn't very aerodynamic
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> I once calculated an ascent by assuming equilibrium between drag and buoyancy and found that the balloon should get faster towards the top
[19:29] <jcoxon> Lunar_Lander, it does a little
[19:29] <daveake> and if you use H2 instead of He that tends to accelerate at high altitudes
[19:29] <jcoxon> also H2 has a slightly differnet profile to He
[19:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[19:30] <jcoxon> aadamson, i'm a big fan of the fact that ballooning is a little bit trial and error
[19:30] <jcoxon> you can't calculate everything
[19:30] <jcoxon> there comes a point when you just go for it
[19:30] <aadamson> oh, totally understand, I just wanted to understand the *basic* elements
[19:30] <daveake> and chase a balloon across a field? :)
[19:30] <jcoxon> daveake, tis a risk :-)
[19:30] <aadamson> for example it seems that kt5tk-4 is accelerating in vertical speed
[19:30] <daveake> Upu went into a slight panic when his floater went horizontally
[19:31] <daveake> *just* cleared a tree half a mile away
[19:31] <jcoxon> aadamson, it'll settle down
[19:31] <jcoxon> i hope
[19:32] <aadamson> and where is that jetstream? seems it was much lower today or hasn't found it yet :)
[19:33] <jcoxon> we should have gone through it
[19:33] <jcoxon> 19km is above
[19:33] <aadamson> ah, ok... why the winds were 100+mph lower and only 34 now
[19:34] <jcoxon> you'll find another burst of speed
[19:34] <jcoxon> around 10mb
[19:34] <jcoxon> http://nstar.org/GFS/10mb/10mb.012.png
[19:34] <jcoxon> thats what he is trying to hit
[19:35] <aadamson> yeah as they call it over here... the *polar jet*
[19:35] <aadamson> we get both sometimes here in the south (I'm in atlanta)
[19:35] <aadamson> has had weather all screwed up over here lately
[19:36] <jcoxon> good old polar vortex
[19:36] <jcoxon> aadamson, WB8ELK often flys balloons over toward atlanta
[19:36] <jcoxon> towards*
[19:37] <aadamson> ah, out of huntsville, AL
[19:38] <jcoxon> yeah
[19:39] <aadamson> ok, I understand the math a little (at least based on your calculator)... e.g. hwoyee 1600 with 77g mass, and 1.38m/s ascent would be the 50g of free lift (neck 127 - 77 (load))..
[19:39] <aadamson> ok, I think I get how you guys look at this now
[19:39] <jcoxon> :-)
[19:39] <aadamson> is there a way to look at the history and it's ascent rate?
[19:39] <aadamson> just to see how it's been doing over time?
[19:39] <jcoxon> for a single flight?
[19:40] <aadamson> yeah for this one for example?
[19:40] <jcoxon> oh on spacenear.us there is a tab top left
[19:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> Use GE on snus
[19:40] <jcoxon> altitude graph
[19:41] <aadamson> yeah I was curious of the interval data just look at that rate, the graph may tell you guys that know what to look like, but doesn't do much for me
[19:41] <jcoxon> you can also graph any flight data
[19:41] <jcoxon> from http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
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[19:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[19:43] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/HAB_Flights/2014_Flights/KT5TK_2014206/
[19:44] <Geoff-G8DHE> Its increasing its rate of climb now quite a bit!
[19:44] <aadamson> plus slowed *way* down
[19:46] <jcoxon> its still got a good 10km to go before anything exciting
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[19:46] <jcoxon> that said balloons aren't made equally
[19:46] <aadamson> in alt or distance :)
[19:46] <jcoxon> aadamson, alt
[19:46] <aadamson> hehe
[19:47] <aadamson> woah, it's come to a standstilll and may just circle around it appears... very interesting stuff *and very fun* with all the near realtime tracking
[19:48] <jcoxon> with rtty flights we often have 2 or 3 packets a minute
[19:48] <jcoxon> this flight is one every few minutes i think
[19:49] <aadamson> yeah I happened on your guys with upu's last flight very cool, decoded it via websdr for a bit
[19:49] <aadamson> yeah 2 mins
[19:50] <aadamson> was talking with Thomas the other day... we need to do a little rPi with rtl chip dongle and see about getting repeater owners to up them on their sites, those with internet and setup a network of 433mhz Rx's in the us
[19:51] <jcoxon> aadamson, unfortunately the UK is at the end of this terrible weather
[19:51] <jcoxon> no chance of launching here for a good couple of weeks i suspect
[19:52] <aadamson> meaning you are having a bad weather streak for the next few weeks?
[19:52] <jcoxon> eah
[19:52] <aadamson> are best launches time of year dependant? winter vs summer, etc?
[19:52] <aadamson> or does it really just matter more what the winds are doing?
[19:53] <jcoxon> its actually quite interesting
[19:53] <jcoxon> in the summer the 30+km winds change direction
[19:53] <jcoxon> and go east to west
[19:53] <jcoxon> but very slowly
[19:53] <aadamson> ah, so you guys can head this way then :)
[19:53] <jcoxon> well its a nice idea
[19:53] <jcoxon> but it would take 4+ days i think
[19:54] <aadamson> ah, hence leo's solar/micro sized stuff :)
[19:54] <jcoxon> well that floats at a lower altitude
[19:55] <jcoxon> so actually goes west - east
[19:55] <jcoxon> its more that latex will degrade in sunlight
[19:55] <jcoxon> so eventually it'll burst
[19:56] <aadamson> yeah an uv only gets worse the higher youet.
[19:56] <aadamson> you get
[19:57] <aadamson> so these mylar balloons that you guys have been using to do the lower stuff, are they just *party* balloons?
[19:57] <jcoxon> yup
[19:57] <jcoxon> the biggest we can find
[19:57] <Geoff-G8DHE> Thats why we have Launch PArties ;-)
[19:57] <jcoxon> 91cm
[19:57] <jcoxon> Geoff-G8DHE, they are armardas!
[19:57] <aadamson> hehe...
[19:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right down to Plymouth then!
[19:59] <aadamson> got any pictures of a *fill apparatus*?
[19:59] <aadamson> curious what that looks like
[19:59] <jcoxon> for latex or mylar?
[19:59] <aadamson> either
[19:59] <jcoxon> http://wiki.ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:guides#launch_resources
[20:00] <jcoxon> lots on the wiki
[20:00] <daveake> s/on/carefully hidden in/
[20:00] <daveake> :)
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[20:04] <aadamson> have upu or leo make public their pico trackers such that one could make one if wanted?
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[20:09] <aadamson> hmm, maybe starting slow its ascent finally
[20:12] <LeoBodnar> MAX-7 is being itself again
[20:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> LOL
[20:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
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[20:56] <danielsaul> Upu: ping
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[21:02] <jcoxon> aadamson, ta daaaa
[21:04] <jcoxon> or perhaps not
[21:04] <jcoxon> :-(
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> :(
[21:07] <aadamson> yeah, been watching... getting close to *bing* predictions... and a few other things
[21:08] <aadamson> sheesh, keyboard sucks today... *bingo*...
[21:08] <aadamson> or maybe its the nut behind the keyboard
[21:13] <aadamson> ah spacenear just caught up
[21:13] <aadamson> it was about 10 mins behind aprs.fi
[21:13] <aadamson> but alas, still climbing
[21:16] <aadamson> it does appear it's *trying* to stablize...
[21:32] <aadamson> jcoxon, you may have been *close* :)
[21:33] <jcoxon> yeah that looks like it
[21:33] <jcoxon> :-)
[21:35] <jcoxon> its going to be a good flight
[21:37] <aadamson> well, it will be interesting anyway :)
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[21:37] <aadamson> heck for me, it's all a learning exercise
[21:39] <jcoxon> the next challenge will be for it to survive sunrise
[21:41] <aadamson> meaning my tomorrow morning?
[21:42] <DL1SGP> if it did not get exposed to a mass amount of twilight movies, then surviving sunrise should be possible
[21:42] <jcoxon> aadamson, yeah
[21:42] <jcoxon> DL1SGP, hehe
[21:46] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[21:46] <jcoxon> aadamson, do you have rx capabilities?
[21:46] <aadamson> hmm... yeah probably
[21:47] <aadamson> I'll have to setup for that... I can probably get my funcube pro up pretty quickly with software afsk decoder
[21:47] <jcoxon> couple of hours and it'll be in range
[21:47] <jcoxon> what os?
[21:47] <aadamson> winders
[21:47] <jcoxon> loads of options
[21:47] <aadamson> yeah, I'll use afsk1200 and sdrsharp
[21:48] <DL1SGP> sounds like a plan
[21:48] <aadamson> what I use for prelim testing on my si4463 module
[21:48] <aadamson> :)
[21:48] <aadamson> now just to see if I can get the funcube up on win 8.1 :) just changed pc... I'll be off working on that
[21:50] <jcoxon> good luck
[21:51] <aadamson> well. hopefully that was a good sign, if found the soundcard and it's in my device manager list... :)
[21:52] <aadamson> ok, part of the battle accomplished
[21:52] <jcoxon> unfortunately aprs is a hodge podge of software
[21:52] <DL7AD> hm... 15kph is not pretty fast to get over the ocean...
[21:52] <jcoxon> DL7AD, further north its much faster
[21:52] <jcoxon> http://nstar.org/GFS/10mb/10mb.012.png
[21:55] <DL1SGP> nabend Sven :)
[21:58] <Upu> pong danielsaul
[21:58] <Upu> back now
[21:58] <Upu> well just getting a brew back in 2
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[21:58] <Lunar_Lander> ah anthony and felix, got something to show you
[21:58] <danielsaul> Upu: Hey, just wondering whether the 1575AT54A0010 footprint in your eagle lib is trustworthy?
[21:59] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/k/a/2/5yv74i-k36l76-zeh5/HumidityBoard.jpeg
[22:00] <DL1SGP> I saw that drawing
[22:00] <DL1SGP> yesterday I think
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[22:01] <Lunar_Lander> I wasn't sure :)
[22:01] <DL1SGP> so you plan on putting a humidity sensor on some sort of "breakout" board for easy access on homebrew kind of things?
[22:02] <Lunar_Lander> well I had the idea to combine those two humidity sensors on that board to put them outside the payload and then just have a five-wire-ribbon or so to the mainboard inside
[22:02] <Upu> hi danielsaul
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[22:02] <SP3OSJ> #habhub
[22:02] <Upu> untested
[22:03] <Upu> I have some antennas to play with
[22:03] <Upu> but they are frikken huge compared to the other ones
[22:04] <Upu> let me know if you want some
[22:04] <danielsaul> Ah ok, cheers
[22:04] <Upu> do check it as its a really odd land pattern
[22:04] <danielsaul> Will do
[22:04] <Upu> should be ok in theory
[22:05] <Upu> nice float KT5TK
[22:06] <Upu> not even at sunset yet
[22:06] <danielsaul> need gps+glonass on this next project and that looked like the best bet
[22:06] <Upu> which GPS modules ?
[22:07] <danielsaul> Probably just the MAX-7
[22:07] <Upu> ok
[22:07] <Upu> it can't do GPS and GLONASS at the same time
[22:08] <danielsaul> Ooh ok
[22:08] <danielsaul> will get around to reading datasheets at some point
[22:08] <danielsaul> :/
[22:09] <danielsaul> Any idea when the max-m8 will be available generally?
[22:10] <Lunar_Lander> what do you think of the idea DL1SGP ?
[22:11] <Upu> at least 12 months danielsaul
[22:11] <Upu> check datasheet for the EVA8
[22:11] <Upu> I'm suppose to be getting those in April
[22:11] <DL1SGP> Sounds OK to me as long as weight is not the biggest of your worries
[22:11] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/PDFS/EVA-7M_DataSheet_%28UBX-13000581%29_Confidential.pdf
[22:11] <Upu> oops
[22:11] <Upu> pretend that's a PM ok
[22:12] <LeoBodnar> heh
[22:12] <bertrik> I remember discussion here of a library to convert GPS pseudoranges into coordinates, but can't remember the name.
[22:12] <danielsaul> haha
[22:12] Action: DL1SGP gets the white marker
[22:12] <danielsaul> ta
[22:12] <Upu> Don't think that can do both at the same time either
[22:12] <Upu> GLONASS and GPS signals cannot be received and tracked simultaneously by u-blox 7 modules.
[22:12] <Upu> no it can't
[22:12] <danielsaul> GLONASS and GPS signals cannot be received and tracked simultaneously by u-blox 7 modules
[22:13] <danielsaul> heh no
[22:13] <Upu> ok so I'm suppose to be getting the M8 timing module around then as well
[22:13] <Upu> the 8 series must be able to do simultanious GPS and GLONASS
[22:13] <Upu> just design with the MAX7 pin outs and I'll be surprised if it isn't a drop in
[22:13] <danielsaul> "With dual-frequency RF front-end, the u-blox M8 concurrent GNSS engine is able to intelligently use the highest amount of visible satellites from two GNSS (GPS, GLONASS and BeiDOU) systems for more reliable positioning."
[22:14] <danielsaul> Yup
[22:14] <Upu> I'll make some enquiries for you
[22:14] <danielsaul> And can then test with the max7 in the meantime
[22:14] <danielsaul> That;d be great, thanks Upu
[22:14] <Upu> you may end up having to use an LEA footprint if you want it any time in the next 12 months
[22:14] <danielsaul> Ok
[22:18] <Laurenceb_> ooh a float
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[22:34] <Upu> yup a proper one
[22:35] <Upu> sunset not even anywhere near it
[22:35] <Upu> so its up for a while
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[22:39] <DL1SGP> fingers crossed
[22:39] <Upu> its likely to head up to Nova Scotia where it should accelerate quite considerably
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[22:39] <Upu> slow winds atm
[22:39] <Upu> http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/10hPa/orthographic=-84.15,40.55,600
[22:39] <Upu> 300kmph
[22:39] <Upu> lol
[22:40] <Upu> this could cross right over the UK
[22:44] <aadamson> ok, after all of that, I finally figured out how to send *what you hear* through the afsk1200 decoder... sheesh, that wasn't obvious
[22:44] <DL1SGP> hehe the options for that got a bit sneaky in newer windozes
[22:45] <Upu> it goes on the driver I think
[22:46] <Upu> some sound cards have it some don't
[22:46] <Upu> use Virtual Audio Cable
[22:46] <DL1SGP> yeah VAC is sweet
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[22:47] <DL1SGP> the balloon could make it to the Olympic Games :D
[22:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL1SGP: better not: http://dailycurrant.com/2014/02/08/man-responsible-for-olympic-ring-mishap-found-dead-in-sochi/
[22:59] <DL1SGP> duh, and that even thoug russian tv reacted promptly and presented their viewer the picture from the last test isntead of live images?
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[23:12] <DL7AD> the balloon is drunk
[23:12] <Prometheus> KT5TK is that balloon valved?
[23:13] <Prometheus> Nice high float
[23:13] <KT5TK> No valve
[23:13] <Prometheus> did you measure your gas?
[23:13] <KT5TK> We measured lift
[23:13] <KT5TK> which was 50 g
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[23:14] <KT5TK> payload weight 77g
[23:14] <Prometheus> Ohhh we that small eaiser
[23:15] <KT5TK> Most of the weight are 3 x AA batteries
[23:15] <Prometheus> I have used natural gas folw meters before for measuring gas
[23:15] <DL1SGP> Hi KT5TK, nice flight so far, good luck for the crossing
[23:15] <Prometheus> but much heaver payloads
[23:16] <KT5TK> Danke DL1SGP
[23:16] <Prometheus> Yeah the dang winds are fickel at the moment arent they
[23:16] <KT5TK> We've had the same thing last year.
[23:16] <KT5TK> annoying
[23:16] <Prometheus> yeah
[23:17] <DL1SGP> I hope it'll get sucked in sometime later today, cannot do anything much than wait and see what happens :)
[23:17] <Upu> looks good KT5TK
[23:18] <Upu> shame the winds are so slow until it gets off the coast
[23:18] <Upu> but at least you should still have RX at sunrise tommorrow
[23:18] <KT5TK> Upu Is the ascent rate what you expected?
[23:18] <Upu> yeah spot on
[23:18] <Upu> trouble is
[23:18] <KT5TK> good
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/aBffHFc.png
[23:18] <Upu> it will probably drop over night
[23:18] <Upu> and at sunrise , rise and burst
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> pseudo 4PSK from an si4460
[23:19] <Upu> no idea what that is Laurenceb but probably impressive
[23:19] <DL1SGP> I was thinking of a tasty donut Laurenceb, but your way to explain that picture is cool too
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> means we might be able to do PSK easily
[23:19] <Upu> interestingly it has already dropped about 1km
[23:20] <Upu> sunset in a few hours
[23:20] <KT5TK> Those are the IQ chanels of a SDR probably
[23:20] <DL1SGP> Laurenceb_ , good work you are almost tehre
[23:20] <Upu> yup interesting Laurenceb
[23:20] <DL1SGP> *there even ... dammit I am getting sleepy
[23:21] <DL7AD> DL1SGP: me too
[23:21] <DL7AD> evening thomas
[23:22] <DL7AD> rather good morning than good evening :P
[23:22] <KT5TK> Thanks for watching/tracking
[23:22] <Prometheus> Speaking of SDR is there some hot ticket for a preamp for them are are they usless
[23:22] <LeoBodnar> Well pseudo because the constellation rotates
[23:22] <DL1SGP> Sven, we need to make some more money to afford some assistant to prepare coffee... or found a company and ahve internship students :D
[23:22] <Prometheus> The BVB-T modules
[23:23] <Upu> SDR's are ok with a preamp filter on
[23:23] <Upu> without I would suggest they are only really ok for testing
[23:23] <Prometheus> yeah mine works kinda lousy
[23:23] <Upu> FCD's are great
[23:23] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: thats mainly due to mismatched LO
[23:24] <LeoBodnar> KT5TK: actually watching it from Europe makes it move towards it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)
[23:24] <Prometheus> any suggestion for preamp filter?
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> but costas loop isnt really feasible with 4PSK
[23:24] <Darkside> Prometheus: Habamp!
[23:24] <Darkside> cue URL
[23:24] <Darkside> Upu: that's your cue
[23:24] <Upu> I think he's found them already
[23:24] <LeoBodnar> queue of cues
[23:24] <Prometheus> thanks DS I'll check HABamp
[23:25] <Darkside> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=83
[23:25] <DL1SGP> *yay*
[23:27] <KT5TK> LeoBodnar: That's just because of the continental drift ;)
[23:28] <Prometheus> has anyone hacked out the lousy MCX connector and just used coax?
[23:29] <Darkside> err
[23:29] <Darkside> MCX is OK
[23:29] <Darkside> just gt an adaptor cable
[23:30] <Darkside> MCX is better than the belling-lee sockets that come on th EZCap dongles
[23:30] <Upu> I use to remove the Bellend connector and put an SMA on there
[23:30] <Darkside> yeah
[23:30] <Darkside> Upu: the newer dongls have MCX though
[23:30] <Darkside> well, some do
[23:30] <Upu> yeah
[23:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/HABAMP_and_DONGLE/index.php?ind=1
[23:30] <Darkside> i'd just use an adaptor cable, and tape it in place
[23:31] <Upu> right well good luck KT5TK
[23:31] <Upu> I'm sure it will still be up in the morning
[23:31] <KT5TK> Thanks
[23:31] <Upu> its local sunrise thats going to be interesting
[23:31] <KT5TK> We'll keep watching it for a while.
[23:31] <Upu> nothing has survived that for about 2 years now, or whenever Ron did his launches
[23:31] <Upu> my fingers are crossed :)
[23:32] <DL1SGP> I will watch again once I get up. time for bed now, have a nice time everyone
[23:32] <KT5TK> BTW at the next ISS crossing it'll try ARISS
[23:32] <Upu> it may drop to about 27km over night
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[23:32] <Upu> I think thats what mine did though I was carrying a heavier payload
[23:32] <Upu> anyway
[23:32] <Upu> night all!
[23:32] <KT5TK> gn
[23:33] <Geoff-G8DHE> night night
[23:33] <DL7AD> night
[23:40] <Prometheus> KT5TK would you be interested in flying a Zero Pressure balloon?
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[23:43] <Prometheus> about the same size as a 1200g latex
[23:43] <aadamson> nice job KT5TK! fun to watch, hopefully it will make GA as I'm listening and hope to catch a *live* packet
[23:45] <Prometheus> Yeah it's fun watching you work your tail off
[23:45] <Prometheus> I hope this makes a good trip during the night
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[23:47] <Prometheus> Anyone here familar with TeamSpeak?
[23:48] <craag> Have been in the past..
[23:48] <craag> What's the question?
[23:48] <Prometheus> I wonder if some of you might be interested in joining in on a meeting
[23:49] <craag> Ah, 11:49pm and up early for a ham radio rally in the morning, so not me
[23:49] <craag> Thanks though
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[23:50] <Prometheus> Our team has meetings Wed and Sat 8:00 pm CST
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[23:50] <craag> That's a reasonable local time
[23:51] <Prometheus> the server is team-prometheus.no-ip.biz your welcome to drop in and chat
[23:51] <Prometheus> or listen in if you like
[23:52] <craag> Do you have a project website?
[23:52] <Prometheus> We are using TeamSpeak for mission control because it is clear and push to talk to cut down on noise
[23:52] <Prometheus> http://www.teamprometheus.org
[23:53] <Prometheus> This version of the wesite is new
[23:53] <craag> Yeah fair enough, most people I know have moved on to mumble to make running servers easier.
[23:54] <Prometheus> there is a lot more photo's and progress to be seen at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Team-Prometheus/213171526223
[23:54] <craag> Cool I'll check it out, anyway bed for me now, gn!
[23:55] <Prometheus> We are working up documentation for the website but it's slow
[23:55] <Prometheus> gn and 73's craag
[00:00] --- Sun Feb 9 2014