highaltitude.log.20140207

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[01:52] <Joel_re> hey, if anyone is awake, how do I select the right chip antenna for my MAX 7Q gps module in farnel
[01:52] <Joel_re> http://in.element14.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=2103+202465&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=chip+antenna&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial
[01:53] <Joel_re> I know I require one for 1.575 GHz
[01:53] <Joel_re> Farnel seems to list the Freq Min and Freq Max ones
[01:53] <KT5TK> It seems that they don't have it.
[01:53] <adwiens_KC0WYS> the lazy way is to just buy one from Upu
[01:53] <KT5TK> Yes, Upu or digikey
[01:53] <Joel_re> ahhh ok
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[01:54] <adwiens_KC0WYS> but really any chip antenna designed for gps should work if you follow the datasheet
[01:54] <heathkid> I"ll second that... the chip antennas work great!
[01:55] <heathkid> and yes... buy from Upu!
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[01:56] <Joel_re> as per the datasheet, ACM4-5036-A1-CC-S is the recommended chip antenna
[01:56] <Joel_re> I tried to find an equivalent
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[02:01] <KT5TK> The Johanson type that Upu sells is the smallest that I knw and I can confirm that it works well
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[02:02] <adwiens_KC0WYS> i think sparkfun sells some too
[02:03] <adwiens_KC0WYS> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9131
[02:03] <Joel_re> thanks guys, I'll check how much it'd cost me to ship it to where I live
[02:03] <Joel_re> from Upu
[02:06] <adwiens_KC0WYS> totally random question, but does anyone know if aprs.fi shows traffic on 30m (10MHz)?
[02:07] <Darkside> if its picked up by an igate, sure
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[03:37] <Prometheus_> Anyone interested in getting telemetry on the audio channel of a video TX?
[03:45] <adwiens_KC0WYS> ?
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[03:54] <Prometheus_> I'm looking into getting telemetry from my 900 Mhz Video TX and getting rid of the telemetry radio to cinserve power and reduce it to one TX rather than 2
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[04:25] <Darkside> >> 'conserve power'
[04:25] <Darkside> >> Video TX
[04:25] <Darkside> no
[04:25] <Darkside> and no, i wouldnt not put telemetry on the 900MHz audio
[04:25] <Darkside> as its going to require a much higher SNR to get a decodable signal
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[07:06] <Prometheus_> Anyone here familar with Narrow Band TV?
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[08:14] <fsphil> Prometheus_: I'll be flying an nbtv payload at some point this year
[08:15] <Prometheus_> What kind of set up you planning may I ask?
[08:16] <fsphil> raspberry pi + picam + ntx2 radio
[08:17] <Prometheus_> What I'm interested in is if I can get 10 fps live video out of a setup like that in real time
[08:17] <fsphil> totally
[08:17] <fsphil> mine runs at 12.5 fps
[08:17] <Prometheus_> That's so cool!
[08:17] <fsphil> I've made the resolution fit into a multiple of the sample rate
[08:18] <fsphil> so it's rather simple to decode
[08:18] <Prometheus_> Wow have you tested it already?
[08:18] <fsphil> syncronisation is a bit trickier
[08:18] <fsphil> yea
[08:18] <fsphil> at very short range
[08:18] <Prometheus_> What I'm interested in is getting longer range video that way
[08:19] <Prometheus_> So the RPi can actually do it?
[08:20] <fsphil> yea. it's all very low resolution, it has plenty of cpu power for it
[08:20] <Prometheus_> What frequency you running?
[08:20] <fsphil> 434.075mhz atm
[08:21] <Prometheus_> thats what I was thinking
[08:21] <UpuWork> do you want an NTX2B for it fsphil ?
[08:22] <fsphil> you've sent me one already UpuWork :)
[08:22] <UpuWork> ah ok
[08:22] <Prometheus_> Upu where you located?
[08:22] <UpuWork> UK
[08:22] <UpuWork> off the record we have a custom firmware for it now
[08:22] <fsphil> I'll probably just fly the 434.075 one anyway, get rid of it
[08:22] <UpuWork> you can select 3.125khz channels from 434.something to 434.7 something
[08:23] <Prometheus_> Upu do you have a website for stuff you offer?
[08:23] <UpuWork> yup http://ava.upuaut.net/store
[08:23] <UpuWork> I have to go dentist appointment I'll be back in 30
[08:23] <UpuWork> *hopefully
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[08:24] <fsphil> urg
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[08:25] <Prometheus_> lol
[08:25] <Prometheus_> nice looking preamps
[08:26] <Prometheus_> hummm
[08:27] <Prometheus_> fsphil may I ask what software your using for NBTV?
[08:27] <Prometheus_> The ones I've seen so far do not do live
[08:27] <fsphil> just some homebrewed code
[08:27] <Prometheus_> really interesting
[08:28] <fsphil> an early test with a windows program: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGgmCiJ9iEM
[08:28] <Prometheus_> So your getting live in real time video?
[08:28] <fsphil> this wasn't using my software
[08:29] <fsphil> yea the new one is real time
[08:31] <fsphil> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSD9cj4CYAAcKKH.png:large
[08:31] <Prometheus_> I wonder what the range would be at 5 watts
[08:31] <fsphil> screenshot of the newer version
[08:31] <Prometheus_> little kitty!
[08:31] <Prometheus_> lol
[08:31] <fsphil> not a live image :)
[08:32] <Prometheus_> Hey that's great work there fsphil
[08:32] <fsphil> it's all a bit of fun. I don't expect to get terribly good results with it :)
[08:32] <Prometheus_> I am just now looking into it because I found out NASA used it for apollo 11
[08:33] <Prometheus_> All I need is to be able to see the horizon
[08:33] <fsphil> that it should manage
[08:33] <Prometheus_> For flying back from space
[08:34] <Prometheus_> so we need lots of range
[08:34] <fsphil> actual space?
[08:34] <Prometheus_> yeah the X-11E we are flying in April is a test
[08:34] <Prometheus_> from 100kft
[08:35] <Prometheus_> We have a test of the rockoon in July
[08:35] <fsphil> you're planning on getting it above 100km?
[08:35] <Prometheus_> if all goes well next year we can atempt a sub orbital flight
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[08:35] <fsphil> sweet!
[08:36] <Prometheus_> kinda like a mini Virgin Galatic thing
[08:36] <Prometheus_> lol
[08:37] <Prometheus_> I've been working with 900Mhz but cant get the range we need without a big heavy amp
[08:38] <Prometheus_> NBTV would be good enough for us
[08:38] <Prometheus_> if it will work
[08:38] <fsphil> not sure what the range on this will be. I've got a 10km path I can test it over, but only when the weather is good
[08:38] <Prometheus_> how many watts is your TX
[08:39] <fsphil> 0.01 :)
[08:39] <WillDWork> what type of nbtv fsphil? digital?
[08:39] <Prometheus_> yeah see I can run 5 watts np
[08:39] <fsphil> WillDWork: nah this is analogue
[08:39] <Prometheus_> right
[08:40] <fsphil> digital video at low bitrate is pretty awful
[08:40] <Prometheus_> low rez stuff
[08:40] <WillDWork> shame you never managed to do you talk at the conference
[08:40] <fsphil> yea
[08:40] <nats`> hi boyz
[08:40] <Prometheus_> hey
[08:40] <fsphil> next time I'll bring a spare
[08:41] <mikestir> fsphil: the local radio club here has an az/el mount on top of a lighthouse. I was talking to some of them the other day and they are keen on trying to track a high bandwidth downlink
[08:41] <fsphil> ooh
[08:41] <Prometheus_> Yeah digital is pretty much out of the question for us
[08:41] <fsphil> what sort of receiver have they mikestir?
[08:42] <mikestir> not sure. I think there's a range of options
[08:42] <Prometheus_> a satellite downlink?
[08:42] <mikestir> there's certainly an fcd knocking about
[08:42] <mikestir> there's also quite a bit of ATV interest around here
[08:42] <Prometheus_> ATV is good but I need even more range
[08:43] <fsphil> the nbtv flight will be a floater, so it'll almost certainly head out over england
[08:43] <Prometheus_> it looks like NBTV can solve some issues like multipathing and nois problems
[08:43] <mikestir> your last flight came almost directly over my house
[08:44] <Prometheus_> I wonder when KT5TK's balloon is dew over there?
[08:44] <WillDWork> are you piping the tone straight out through audio into the tx pin phil?
[08:45] <mikestir> are you doing an analogue nbtv mode fsphil?
[08:45] <gonzo_> are you talking sstv, or 30 line fast scan?
[08:45] <fsphil> 12.5 fps
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[08:46] <fsphil> WillDWork: it's similar to sstv, the pixel brightness controls the frequency of the ntx2
[08:46] <gonzo_> machanicat scanning, a sort of flying version of one od the robot wars conpetitors
[08:46] <gonzo_> (my typing is extra bad today)
[08:47] <fsphil> the transmitter basically grabs the image from the camera, and sends the data to the Pi's sound card
[08:47] <fsphil> that's wired straight to the ntx2
[08:47] <fsphil> the top line of the frame is replaced with a sync pattern
[08:47] <mikestir> when are you planning on flying it?
[08:47] <fsphil> sometime between now and 2015 :)
[08:48] <fsphil> most likely spring
[08:48] <fsphil> I'd like to have the receiver software work a bit better
[08:49] <fsphil> and work on windows, since people seem to insist on using that ;)
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[08:53] <Prometheus_> I'd prefer it work on the Pi! :)
[08:54] <fsphil> not sure it'll be fast enough
[08:54] <fsphil> though my code is horribly inefficient at the moment
[08:54] <Prometheus_> NBTV is kinda inbetween SSTV and FSTV
[08:54] <fsphil> it was the first kind of tv
[08:55] <Prometheus_> sounds like the ticket for long range to me!
[08:55] <gonzo_> have seen some demo's of mechanical nbtv. It's suprisingly watchable
[08:55] <gonzo_> not sure you will see much above a few 100ft, such low res
[08:55] <SIbot> In real units: 100 ft = 30 m
[08:55] <Prometheus_> the moonwalk was NBTV
[08:56] <gonzo_> ah, sibot is back
[08:56] <fsphil> I think that had a higher resolution than most nbtv modes
[08:56] <Prometheus_> 320
[08:56] <gonzo_> a few hundred lines and half a meg bandwidth
[08:56] <gonzo_> the nbtv club std is 32line
[08:56] <gonzo_> (baird's original wwas 30line)
[08:57] <Prometheus_> what is yours fsphil?
[08:57] <gonzo_> what res are you going for phil?
[08:57] <Prometheus_> lol
[08:57] <gonzo_> (snap)
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[08:58] <Prometheus_> his looks like 320 to me
[08:58] <fsphil> 48x40
[08:58] <Prometheus_> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BSD9cj4CYAAcKKH.png:large
[08:58] <fsphil> that image is scaled up x8
[08:59] <gonzo_> the apollo S band comms had a 500kHz bandwidth filled with telem sub carriers. But fior TV they had to use pretty much the whole of that for the TV when it was running
[08:59] <Prometheus_> oh interesting
[08:59] <fsphil> the resolution can be increased if the frame rate is dropped
[08:59] <fsphil> 48x40x12.5 seemed a nice compromise
[08:59] <Prometheus_> 48x40 is good for me!
[09:00] <mikestir> have you measured the sensitivity at all?
[09:00] <mikestir> to get an idea of link budget
[09:00] <Prometheus_> Yes if we had a telemetry subcarrier it would be perfect
[09:00] <fsphil> haven't yet
[09:00] <gonzo_> will that go through an ssb bandwidth?
[09:00] <fsphil> gonzo_: nope
[09:01] <fsphil> I suspect this will need an SDR to decode it
[09:01] <mikestir> could encode telemetry in the line after the sync
[09:01] <gonzo_> could limit the RX network a biit
[09:01] <fsphil> it's basically FM but without any DC filtering
[09:01] <Prometheus_> I like that also!
[09:01] <fsphil> mikestir: was thinking that
[09:01] <Prometheus_> I'm into SDR
[09:01] <gonzo_> there are probably enough people who can rx it to make it doable though
[09:02] <mikestir> well I'll certainly have a go, and I can probably get the club to put the az/el into service
[09:02] <Prometheus_> I have a DVB-T how do the compair to the funcube in your opinion? fsphil?
[09:02] <gonzo_> the ar5000 will do wide bandwifth, but you get the lsb image noise coning in
[09:03] <fsphil> Prometheus_: not as sensitive, but seems to do the trick
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[09:04] <fsphil> I'll probably have a second ntx2 on there for telemetry
[09:05] <fsphil> the range on the nbtv signal will be fairly limited I suspect :)
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[09:05] <fsphil> at least without a big yagi on the ground
[09:06] <LeoBodnar> morning *
[09:06] <fsphil> morning Leo
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[09:08] <UpuWork> morning
[09:08] <fsphil> ah your survived
[09:08] <fsphil> -r
[09:08] <UpuWork> yup
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[09:08] <Prometheus> Opps had to refresh
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[09:17] <DL1SGP1> morning
[09:19] <fsphil> morning!
[09:23] <Maxell> morning
[09:26] <Prometheus> hey
[09:27] <Prometheus> fsphil how dificult was it to write that software for the NBTV?
[09:32] <fsphil> the encoder is simple, it's just capturing an image and formatting it for the sound card
[09:32] <fsphil> the decoder is trickier as it has to find the start of the frame
[09:33] <mikestir> how are you doing that at the moment fsphil?
[09:34] <fsphil> the first line of the frame contains a pseudo random code
[09:34] <fsphil> the decoder is looking for that
[09:34] <fsphil> it seems to find it with pretty good accuracy even when the video is very noisy
[09:35] <mikestir> are you using an fft correlator?
[09:35] <fsphil> something like that. the incoming signal is multiplied by the code
[09:35] <fsphil> there's a nice big spike when it matches
[09:36] <fsphil> got the idea from the gps system
[09:36] <mikestir> oh yeah, I forgot it works in the time domain as well
[09:36] <mikestir> sounds like my 3rd year university project
[09:37] <mikestir> we did a microwave DSSS system with an analogue correlator
[09:37] <mikestir> three analogue multipliers in an early/late/on-time configuration
[09:38] <fsphil> I'm thinking of adding a second multiplier that's out of phase
[09:38] <fsphil> there's an issue at the moment with sub-pixel offsets
[09:38] <fsphil> so I need to measure that
[09:38] <fsphil> the single multplier can only find the sync to the nearest pixel
[09:40] <fsphil> and with a slight difference in clocks between tx and rx there is a little jump in the image every so often
[09:40] <mikestir> add a line sync?
[09:40] <fsphil> I'm probably using all the wrong terminology here :)
[09:40] <mikestir> like a sub-black pixel or something
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[09:42] <fsphil> it still wouldn't be able to find it any more accuratly than a pixel
[09:42] <Prometheus> have you though of swiching the transmitter to telemetry and then back to video?
[09:43] <Prometheus> thought\
[09:43] <fsphil> that never works well Prometheus
[09:43] <Prometheus> ahhhh
[09:43] <fsphil> people have had payload switch baud rates during flights
[09:44] <fsphil> it works but it requires someone to do the switch, and make sure the frequency is correct
[09:44] <fsphil> I like being able to tune something and then leave it
[09:45] <fsphil> less work to do :)
[09:47] <Prometheus> I guess the NBTV is very sensitive
[09:47] <Prometheus> to tuning
[09:51] <fsphil> the telemetry modes we normally use can be sensitive
[09:51] <fsphil> a few tens of hz either way can stop it decoding
[09:53] <Prometheus> RS 232 link
[09:55] <Prometheus> Right now I'm using these https://store.3drobotics.com/products/3dr-radio
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[09:56] <Prometheus> Switch between video and this type of telemetry
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[10:03] <fsphil> I'd thought about putting text in the image but at that resolution I doubt it could be read :)
[10:03] <fsphil> it would need to take up the entire frame
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[10:06] <gonzo_> could the telem go in the sync frame?
[10:07] <mikestir> surely that's the obvious solution. with fec, maybe over a couple of lines, it might actually work quite well
[10:08] <Darkside> not with the existing RTTY modem
[10:08] <Darkside> FEC can't work properly through RS232 framing like RTTY uses
[10:09] <mikestir> no, but if there's going to be two trackers anyway...
[10:09] <gonzo_> at a resolution of 48bits, you could get a compacted telem into a couple of tv lines
[10:09] <Prometheus> Could an audio subcarrier be added since your using SDR widen the BW just a little?
[10:09] <Darkside> ok some of you guys are not gtting the fundamental flaw with all this
[10:09] <Darkside> telemetry shoudl be sent in the highest reliability mode possible
[10:09] <Darkside> positional data is the MOST IMPORTANT thing
[10:10] <gonzo_> you would then have to put the TV on a sub carrier too
[10:10] <Darkside> dont mix it with anything else
[10:10] <mikestir> but this is potentially a way of getting very fast telemetry
[10:10] <Darkside> like, dont put it on a TV subcarrier
[10:10] <Darkside> dont put it on a 600 baud SSDV stream if you want it to be reliable
[10:11] <LeoBodnar> do you search for frame sync after every frame?
[10:11] <gonzo_> or as mike said, run a backup tracker
[10:11] <Darkside> the 3dr radios use the same chipset as what i use for my uplink btw
[10:11] <Darkside> and i cant get them working reliably below 500 baud
[10:11] <Darkside> well, not using the internal modem anyway
[10:12] <Darkside> constant carrier, sure, its how everone does RTTY with them
[10:12] <Darkside> you could do a higher rate, stronger FEC FSK or MFSK mode with them, for sure
[10:12] <Darkside> its one of th epossible transmit platforms for the binary HAB format we're working on
[10:13] <Prometheus> so what would you need to get NBTV and Telemetry with only one antenna :)
[10:13] <Darkside> whn you say NBTV are you meaning SSDV?
[10:13] <Darkside> or something else
[10:14] <Darkside> as you just intersperve SSDV frames with lower rate telemetry
[10:14] <Darkside> transmit SSDV at 300 or 600 baud, and transmit your telemetry at 50 or 100
[10:14] <Darkside> thats how its been done already
[10:14] <Prometheus> It's not SSTV but it's not Fast Scan either
[10:14] <Prometheus> it's around 10 fps
[10:15] <gonzo_> medium frame rate low res sstv
[10:15] <Prometheus> Narrow Band TV
[10:16] <Darkside> do it on a different band and use a duplexer?
[10:16] <Darkside> i designed a SMD 2m/70cm duplever
[10:16] <Darkside> duplxer*
[10:16] <Darkside> which is meant for use as an antenna mount
[10:16] <Darkside> you screw on a dual-band SMA handheld whip antenna
[10:16] <Darkside> and solder on some ground radials
[10:16] <Darkside> and it gives you a 2m port and a 70cm port
[10:17] <Prometheus> What we need is video and telemetry at very long range
[10:17] <Prometheus> ATV is not long enough range for this even
[10:17] <gonzo_> bandwisth needs power
[10:18] <Prometheus> yeah power is a fiend
[10:18] <Prometheus> lol
[10:18] <gonzo_> and with 10mW max, there is a limit to the bandwidth we can realistically use, given the limits of the typical groundstation
[10:19] <Prometheus> I can use 5 watts here in the states
[10:19] <Darkside> Prometheus: if you want to hav 2 payloads on the same band, put them in separate boxes, and physically separate them
[10:19] <Darkside> that will avoid problems
[10:19] <gonzo_> ah, you are spoilt !
[10:19] <Darkside> we do this with the uplink, which operates on the same band as the telemeetry downlink
[10:19] <Prometheus> Well this is for a spacecraft
[10:20] <Darkside> then you're going to have problems
[10:20] <Darkside> and need to rethink your dsign
[10:20] <Darkside> your only option is multiple bands, or time duplexing
[10:20] <Prometheus> yeah I'm searching for ideas
[10:20] <Darkside> there is basically no other way of doing it
[10:20] <Darkside> you cannot have both transmitting on the same time, on the same antenna without large duplexers
[10:21] <Darkside> even moreso if there is going to be an uplink involved too
[10:21] <gonzo_> the closer you get the frequencies that you need to separate, then the size of the filteres goes up
[10:21] <Prometheus> yeah my understanding is limited
[10:21] <gonzo_> (snap again)
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[10:21] <mikestir> you could use SDR to generate both downlinks and amplify with the same PA (which then has the drawback of needing to be linear)
[10:21] <gonzo_> you can drive multiple TX into one antnna OK, but TX/RX needs filters
[10:22] <Darkside> linear amp is really a nogo
[10:22] <Darkside> the power requirements are a pain
[10:22] <Darkside> and even worse ar ethe heatsinking requirements
[10:22] <Darkside> remember: no air. blackbody radiation only.
[10:22] <gonzo_> depends on the application
[10:22] <Prometheus> yeah and space does not radiate heat well
[10:22] <Darkside> some guys in NSW tried 23cm video
[10:23] <Darkside> the payload overheated
[10:23] <Darkside> and that was a 1W transmitter
[10:23] <Darkside> gg.
[10:23] <Prometheus> Yeah I've had my share of heat problems
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[10:24] <gonzo_> drop the power and increase the captyre area of the rx groundsataion
[10:25] <Prometheus> The problems with the ground satation is the antenna must be robotic and that limits antenna size we can transport
[10:26] <Prometheus> I have a 15 db helical at 433
[10:26] <Prometheus> it's about as big as we can go
[10:27] <Prometheus> 900 Mhz is far better but less range
[10:28] <gonzo_> why should 900meg have less range?
[10:28] <Prometheus> higher ferq
[10:29] <gonzo_> apart from absorption at some microwave freqs, the frequency should ahve no effect
[10:29] <mikestir> increased path loss
[10:29] <Prometheus> lower freq longer range
[10:30] <gonzo_> but space is lossless.
[10:30] <fsphil> smaller antennas for similar gain
[10:30] <gonzo_> path loss is a nasty concept, I don't like it
[10:30] <fsphil> an antenna of the same size will work as well
[10:30] <gonzo_> was just typing that phil
[10:30] <fsphil> aiming will need to be more precise however
[10:31] <Prometheus> we also have to have CP
[10:31] <gonzo_> the advantage of higher gain, is that you can reduce the thermal noise, so should be able to get better snr
[10:31] <Prometheus> circular polerization
[10:32] <gonzo_> if you are pointing towards cold sky, there should be less noise picked up at the antenna
[10:32] <gonzo_> and these days, good low noise LNA';s are easy to get
[10:32] <gonzo_> cp is easy enough
[10:33] <gonzo_> and lower microwave freqs, a mesh dish becomes viable
[10:33] <Prometheus> yeah I've found helicals and QFH to work best together
[10:33] <gonzo_> (chicken wire)
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[10:35] <Prometheus> We need some modern military surplus lol
[10:35] <Prometheus> too bad we would have to wait another 20 years for it
[10:35] <gonzo_> when you say mopbile rx station, do you meen park up and deploy, or drive around and track?
[10:36] <gonzo_> mean
[10:36] <Prometheus> Park and deploy
[10:36] <Prometheus> Our mission control in an RV
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[10:37] <gonzo_> a 10ft c band tv dish which can be assesmbed on site and run at 2.3ghz?
[10:37] <SIbot> In real units: 10 ft = 3.05 m
[10:37] <jededu> I have dl-fldigi running what now
[10:37] <mikestir> fsphil: are you going to add a chroma channel?
[10:37] <fsphil> not in the same signal, but it could be done as a second channel
[10:39] <Prometheus> Perhaps gonzo
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[10:40] <Prometheus> That is an unwildy beast with alt/as controls
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[10:40] <mikestir> fsphil: could have an option to half the frame rate and line interleave the chroma
[10:40] <fsphil> mmm
[10:40] <DL7AD> morning
[10:40] <fsphil> 6.25 fps would still be technically video :)
[10:40] <fsphil> might be worth an experiment
[10:41] <mikestir> it would be better than a 90s webcam :)
[10:41] <Prometheus> I think B/W is fine :)
[10:41] <mikestir> suppose if you just render white as pale blue it's going to be pretty close :)
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[10:42] <mikestir> could leave out the red channel along the lines of the old technicolor systems
[10:43] <Prometheus> fsphil how hard would it be to add an audio subcarrier?
[10:44] <Prometheus> and pick it up with SDR?
[10:45] <Prometheus> I could transmit telemetry on that
[10:45] <Prometheus> but what would the SNR be like?
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[10:46] <mikestir> it's FM so the subcarrier would be no easier to resolve (actually harder)
[10:46] <fsphil> just transmit audio in a separate channel
[10:48] <Prometheus> on the same antenna?
[10:48] <keydash> hello
[10:48] <Prometheus> is that possiable?
[10:48] <keydash> with this https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11978
[10:49] <keydash> i can connect arduino uno to this http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-Ublox-NEO6MV2-Module-Aircraft-Flight-Controller-For-Arduino-/130945650745?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7cf81039?
[10:49] <fsphil> I've used two antenna on the same payload before
[10:49] <keydash> ?
[10:49] <fsphil> not sure if they can share an antenna with the frequency being so close together
[10:50] <Prometheus> yeah I have a lot more problems to solve
[10:51] <fsphil> the audio could be sent on another band entirely
[10:51] <Prometheus> All this stuff will be good for balloons too though
[10:51] <fsphil> yea there won't be much sound
[10:52] <Prometheus> what bandwith are you using now like 2kh?
[10:52] <Prometheus> 2khz
[10:52] <fsphil> the rtty modes we use very little bandwidth
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[10:53] <fsphil> the nbtv thing will probably be between 10-20khz
[10:53] <Prometheus> true
[10:53] <fsphil> it will definitly need a yagi on the ground
[10:53] <jededu> I need to set a payload up for testing ?
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[10:55] <Prometheus> I got a headake
[10:55] <Prometheus> lol
[10:56] <Prometheus> lots of good stuff flying around though thanks a bunch guys
[10:56] <jededu> Ive got a headache trying to figure this
[10:56] <Prometheus> yeah it's right on the edge of my understanding
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[10:57] <Prometheus> great stuff
[10:57] <gonzo_> the original baird tv was AM and quite wide. When they did the anniversary of the first transatlantic TV tx, the hams doing it had to design a special vsb tx to rtry and get the bandwidth down to something useable
[10:58] <Prometheus> The first video transmitted by satellite (telstar) was NBTV too I think
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[11:00] <Prometheus> IF not there was something different about it
[11:00] <Prometheus> perhaps there is something usable there?
[11:02] <mikestir> iirc it was format converted by pointing a camera at a monitor
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[11:07] <gonzo_> in the earlier daus of sstv it was common to use a long persistance tube for the rx
[11:07] <Prometheus> mikestir that was the techneque they used for apollo I do know that
[11:07] <gonzo_> and tx often had a flying spot scanner with a transparency on the screen
[11:08] <gonzo_> (I'veheard of that technique also being used for fast scan, when no camera was available.)
[11:08] <Prometheus> old style ocillscops have pretty long persistance tubes
[11:09] <gonzo_> especially the early storeage scopes
[11:09] <Prometheus> yeah if you can handle the green screen lol
[11:09] <gonzo_> they would bugger about with the HT's to keep the image
[11:10] <Prometheus> hahaha
[11:10] <Prometheus> wow
[11:15] <LeoBodnar> fsphil are you searching for PRN at each frame start?
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[11:28] <fsphil> LeoBodnar: yea
[11:31] <LeoBodnar> cool which PRN do you use? 1023 bit one or shorter?
[11:31] <fsphil> 48 bits
[11:31] <fsphil> fits the entire first line
[11:31] <Hix> http://yudkowsky.net/rational/bayes
[11:32] <fsphil> it could probably be smaller and still work, but there's less chance of a false positive with the longer one
[11:32] <gonzo_> would not a fixed pattern be easier to sync on?
[11:32] <fsphil> it is a fixed pattern :)
[11:32] <fsphil> it never changes
[11:32] <gonzo_> ok, I'll shut up!
[11:32] <fsphil> it's easy to search for, just requires addition
[11:33] <fsphil> well, it's using multiplication atm, but it should work just as well using addition
[11:34] <LeoBodnar> you can use few different PRNs to specify different frame types
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[11:35] <LeoBodnar> in this case any fixed pattern would work but PRN has very sharp self-correlation peak
[11:36] <fsphil> it does, it's able to find it even when the signal is very poor
[11:36] <jededu> Does this look ok http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/1.png
[11:37] <fsphil> you're tuned too high
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[11:37] <jededu> Explain im a little lost
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[11:37] <fsphil> you want the grey area on your SDR window to cover the signal
[11:39] <fsphil> [ot] anyone using an HF miniserver?
[11:39] <fsphil> or a microserver even
[11:40] Action: craag guesses you mean HP
[11:40] <fsphil> hah
[11:40] <fsphil> yea. didn't even notice that
[11:40] <craag> Wires getting crossed :P
[11:40] <fsphil> signals you mean? :)
[11:41] <craag> yep :P
[11:41] <craag> thats the one
[11:41] <craag> answer: not personally, but I've been highly recommended them.
[11:41] <fsphil> there seems to be an offer on atm, £100 cashback
[11:42] <craag> Yes.. am trying to persuade work to go for one.
[11:43] <jededu> So how is that adjusted
[11:43] <fsphil> jededu: just click on the waterfall to tune it
[11:44] <jededu> Oh i see what you mean
[11:46] <jededu> I cant work out how to decode in dl-fldigi im missing somthing
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[11:48] <jededu> I have setup the payload test and I can see it in All Payloads testing
[11:49] <jededu> but nothing in the logtail
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[11:54] <fsphil> logtail won't show anything unless you're decoding telmetry in fldigi
[11:54] <jededu> When testing am I supposed to see the payload in the flight bar
[11:55] <jededu> If I want to decode where do I select my input
[11:56] <jededu> It should be so simple lol
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[11:57] <mfa298> fsphil: I've got one from a previous sale. Fairly low powered but I've got mine running a Solaris fileserver with a low usage windows server in a VM (I gave it 8Gb of ram as an upgrade from the base 2G)
[12:00] <fsphil> ah nice
[12:00] <fsphil> fairly low power?
[12:00] <fsphil> as in cpu or mains power?
[12:00] <mfa298> low cpu power
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[12:01] <mfa298> it's one of the lower end AMD cpus (although mine might be the previous generation microserver)
[12:01] <fsphil> this is an AMD Turon II Neo
[12:01] <mfa298> they're good for a home nas type system
[12:01] <fsphil> actually it's the same processor as my current server
[12:02] <fsphil> but that machine is running of an internal 2.5" disk
[12:02] <fsphil> and has a few usb drives hanging off it
[12:02] <fsphil> this has all that built in
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[12:02] <mfa298> this is what the OS on my lists AMD Turion(tm) II Neo N54L Dual-Core Processor
[12:03] <fsphil> AMD Athlon(tm) II Neo K325 on my current box. amd's website says 1.3ghz
[12:04] <mikestir> they look like incredibly good value, but wouldn't support the 8 disks in my current server
[12:05] <fsphil> mfa298: what about noise? are they loud?
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[12:07] <mfa298> seems to be fairly quite most of the time. Might get more noisy if I made it do more.
[12:07] <mfa298> load average: 0.03, 0.03, 0.04
[12:09] <craag> They are designed as an in-office server, so are meant to be quiet.
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[12:12] <mfa298> for mine it stated max 8G ECC memory but I saw reports that it could work with 16GB of non ECC memory (but I've not tried myself)
[12:12] <mfa298> I think the 2x4G ECC probably cost more than the server ended up costing.
[12:13] <fsphil> my current setup will be fine with 2GB, but it would be nice to be able to run VMs
[12:16] <craag> I'm planning to try xen on it with all the good things I've seen recently on #habhub
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[12:16] <jededu> Am i on the right track http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/2.png
[12:17] <mfa298> I had issues with vmware but I think that was probably done to trying to do software raid in VM's
[12:17] <fsphil> £6 postage, and they didn't freak out about the BT* postcode. /me waits for a phone call...
[12:17] <mfa298> vmware can't do software raid/bios raid in the hypervisor
[12:17] <fsphil> looking better jededu
[12:17] <craag> lol fsphil
[12:17] <fsphil> your shift looks too high though
[12:18] <jededu> Explain
[12:18] <fsphil> you've zoomed in on the fldigi waterfall, try going back to x1
[12:18] <jededu> Im new to all this sorry
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[12:19] <fsphil> jededu: I'd suggest trying 50 baud to begin with
[12:19] <fsphil> a slower signal will be much clearer to see on the waterfall
[12:19] <fsphil> ideally you'll end up with two lines
[12:20] <jededu> Ok ill change it thanks
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[12:23] <jededu> Thats clearer
[12:24] <jededu> So how do I decode it
[12:24] <fsphil> do you see two lines in fldigi?
[12:24] <jededu> 1
[12:25] <fsphil> how is your radio wired up?
[12:27] <jededu> Raspberrypi TXD as is the GPS
[12:28] <fsphil> how is the txd pin wired to the ntx2?
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[12:31] <jededu> Hang on i have a pic
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[12:34] <jededu> http://www.primarypi.co.uk/images/wiring.jpg
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[12:36] <fsphil> hmm.. that should be fine
[12:36] <jededu> but the txd also goes to the GPS rx
[12:36] <fsphil> and there's definitly only one line on the waterfall when it's transmitting data?
[12:36] <jededu> yes
[12:37] <fsphil> http://www.essexham.co.uk/images/hab_dldigi.jpg
[12:37] <fsphil> should look something similar to this
[12:38] <jededu> no i only have 1 the tone is very clear though
[12:39] <jededu> could it be antenna
[12:39] <fsphil> not at that short range
[12:40] <fsphil> the payload is definitly sending 50 baud?
[12:40] <adwiens_KC0WYS> "the txd also goes to the gps rx" so you wired the txd to both the ntx2 and the gps?
[12:40] <jededu> yes
[12:40] <adwiens_KC0WYS> i dont think that's what you want
[12:40] <fsphil> the gps's rx pin is high impedance, it won't affect it much
[12:41] <fsphil> the Pi only has one uart so we have to share it between the ntx2 and the gps
[12:41] <jededu> yes 50 i changed it in the software you can hear it
[12:41] <adwiens_KC0WYS> ok..
[12:41] <adwiens_KC0WYS> the pi does 50 baud over the serial port?
[12:41] <fsphil> yea
[12:42] <jededu> And you cant use i2c for the GPS on a Pi
[12:42] <mikestir> if you can hear it then surely you must have 2 lines in the waterfall?
[12:42] <fsphil> you can but not the i2c hardware
[12:42] <fsphil> you have to bit-bang it
[12:42] <jededu> its a pain
[12:42] <fsphil> no less painful than sharing the uart :)
[12:42] <jededu> lol
[12:42] <adwiens_KC0WYS> i mean it sounds like the ntx2 isnt modulating, its probably a problem with the txd line somehow, whether the resistors or what, can you look at it on a scope?
[12:42] <fsphil> try disconnecting the gps to be certain
[12:43] <adwiens_KC0WYS> ^ that
[12:43] <fsphil> if it's wired incorrectly the gps could be holding the line high
[12:43] <jededu> I have it disconnected now
[12:43] <fsphil> so all there should be is the txd > resistors > ntx2
[12:43] <jededu> I can hear good modulation when it sends data
[12:44] <fsphil> did you zoom out in fldigi?
[12:44] <fsphil> you had it at x4 zoom
[12:44] <fsphil> the other line might be off the screen
[12:44] <jededu> yes its on 1 now
[12:45] <fsphil> still only 1 line?
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[12:45] <jededu> yes why 2 lines
[12:45] <fsphil> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ua21FSnIXc
[12:45] <fsphil> rtty uses two tones to describe 0 or 1 bits
[12:46] <fsphil> the two tones will appear as separate lines on the waterfall
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[12:47] <jededu> isee
[12:47] <fsphil> your txd line switches between 0v and 3.3v, the resistors reduce this to a much smaller voltage change
[12:47] <fsphil> and the ntx2 will change its frequency depending on the voltage applied to it
[12:48] <fsphil> so as the uart line switches between 0 and 1, the ntx2 will change frequency
[12:48] <jededu> 1.2v 1.9v on the scope
[12:48] <fsphil> I can't remember what the voltage change should be
[12:48] <fsphil> there's a formula somewhere
[12:49] <jededu> Ill find it
[12:49] <fsphil> 1.9kHz/V ish
[12:49] <fsphil> your shift will be quite high then
[12:50] <jededu> that coulk be the problem
[12:50] <fsphil> you would still see two lines if you tune around a bit
[12:51] <fsphil> 1.3khz apart I think
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[12:53] <fsphil> brb
[12:53] <jededu> Its decoding garbage
[13:01] <jededu> So for 300hz i need a .15v shift
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[13:03] <fsphil> not sure. if you're on breadboard I'd just experiment a bit with various values
[13:04] <fsphil> ideally you want to have it using one of the standard rtty shifts
[13:04] <fsphil> though it's not required
[13:04] <jededu> 2 lines :)
[13:04] <fsphil> ah sweet
[13:08] <jededu> so how to decode
[13:10] <fsphil> in fldigi there are two lines on the waterfall that indicate where it expects the two actual lines of the rtty signal
[13:10] <fsphil> these need to match up
[13:11] <jededu> match up with
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[13:11] <fsphil> check that video I posted you'll see the two red lines, this is where fldigi is decoding from
[13:11] <fsphil> they match up with the two yellow lines which are the signal itself
[13:13] <jededu> my two red lines are linked so the signal lines are to wide
[13:14] <fsphil> you can either reduce the shift of your signal by changing the reistance, or increase the shift fldigi is using in software
[13:14] <mfa298> if you go into the rtty settings in dlfldigi you can adjust the shift (gap between the red lines)
[13:15] <fsphil> you'll also see the standard shifts in there
[13:16] <jededu> I have a green line wow:)
[13:16] <fsphil> it's decoding text?
[13:16] <jededu> With my dada in it :)
[13:17] <fsphil> yay!
[13:17] <jededu> data
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[13:20] <jededu> Thanks for the help rtty hab 50 fits perfect
[13:20] <fsphil> what shift did you get in the end?
[13:21] <jededu> Shift ?
[13:21] <fsphil> the space between the lines
[13:21] <jededu> hab 50
[13:22] <jededu> in rtty
[13:22] <fsphil> that's a preset, can't remember what the settings are
[13:22] <fsphil> at the bottom left it'll say 50 / something
[13:22] <jededu> 50/425
[13:22] <fsphil> 425hz is your shift
[13:22] <fsphil> hey that's perfect
[13:23] <jededu> Cool more luck and all that
[13:23] <jededu> checksums are all good
[13:25] <fsphil> where abouts are you? if there are regular flights nearby it can be great practice to try tuning in and tracking them
[13:25] <fsphil> I had got soom good experience at it before I needed to track my own flight
[13:25] <fsphil> some*
[13:26] <craag> You can always use the websdr </shameless-plug>
[13:26] <fsphil> oh yes
[13:27] <craag> But you will have to do the java-dance
[13:27] <jededu> Birmingham thats the plan just ordered a funcube and antenna
[13:27] <craag> Which funcube dongle did you go for?
[13:27] <fsphil> good location
[13:27] <fsphil> when the winds improve there should be many more flights
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[13:28] <fsphil> there is a (diminishing) chance I might launch a small payload tomorrow
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[13:28] <craag> pico float?
[13:29] <fsphil> yea, 100g balloon
[13:29] <jededu> pro
[13:29] <craag> :)
[13:30] <es5nhc> Good luck British, looks like you are going through some ugly times..
[13:31] <fsphil> if there's one thing england is good at, is rain
[13:33] <es5nhc> Yeah.. tuned to Sky News because of the coming storm only to discover it's been flooding badly in UK
[13:33] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[13:33] <DL1SGP> good day folks
[13:35] <SpeedEvil> It is a lovely sunny day here in scotland.
[13:35] <fsphil> ireland also got some scary flooding in places, which doesn't happen too often
[13:35] newbie|3 (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) left irc: Read error: Connection reset by peer
[13:35] <fsphil> nice here two. infact two sunny days in a row
[13:35] newbie|3 (~kvirc@81-236-232-232-no30.tbcn.telia.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:36] <fsphil> my solar panels don't know what's going on
[13:36] <fsphil> http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=22605&sid=20495
[13:37] <DL1SGP> over here storm is gaining strength, antenna mast with the collinear is shaking a bit, which is OK as it is flexible material and meant to react in such a way. HF antenna is happy.
[13:38] <Laurenceb> http://www.ebay.com/itm/181318164374
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[13:39] <DL1SGP> ships to worldwide, yay
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[13:40] <craag> mfa298: Are you planning on going to harwell this weekend
[13:40] <craag> ?
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[13:42] <jededu> Is this ok
[13:42] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,319] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[13:42] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,318] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: CantExtractCallsign exception in simple_binary: CantExtractCallsign
[13:42] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,318] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: ValueError: Incorrect number of fields (got 6, expect 5)
[13:42] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,315] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Selected payload_configuration 78f93f7877a541d0d88674f28c0afcef for 'TWICK'
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,259] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$TWICK,13:41:38,206,52.472951,-1.909511,11,180*25D2\n' (8ab542c2968969e871fd5586b0b4b3e0762d8c448b13ee4d76539ae9399926a7) from TWICK
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:37,941] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,319] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,318] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: CantExtractCallsign exception in simple_binary: CantExtractCallsign
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,318] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: ValueError: Incorrect number of fields (got 6, expect 5)
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,315] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Selected payload_configuration 78f93f7877a541d0d88674f28c0afcef for 'TWICK'
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,259] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$TWICK,13:41:38,206,52.472951,-1.909511,11,180*25D2\n' (8ab542c2968969e871fd5586b0b4b3e0762d8c448b13ee4d76539ae9399926a7) from TWICK
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:37,941] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[13:43] <fsphil> oh dear
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,170] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,170] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: CantExtractCallsign exception in simple_binary: CantExtractCallsign
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,170] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: ValueError: Incorrect number of fields (got 6, expect 5)
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,167] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Selected payload_configuration 78f93f7877a541d0d88674f28c0afcef for 'TWICK'
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,118] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$TWICK,13:42:17,208,52.472946,-1.909516,11,179*74A9\n' (f54d09efd523520d3da395a0aa4d82affd0ea66984931a52e79b26a6a9d1105f) from TWICK
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,319] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,170] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,170] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: CantExtractCallsign exception in simple_binary: CantExtractCallsign
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,170] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: ValueError: Incorrect number of fields (got 6, expect 5)
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,167] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Selected payload_configuration 78f93f7877a541d0d88674f28c0afcef for 'TWICK'
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,118] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$TWICK,13:42:17,208,52.472946,-1.909516,11,179*74A9\n' (f54d09efd523520d3da395a0aa4d82affd0ea66984931a52e79b26a6a9d1105f) from TWICK
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,319] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[13:43] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,170] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[13:44] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,170] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: CantExtractCallsign exception in simple_binary: CantExtractCallsign
[13:44] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,170] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Exception in UKHAS main parse: ValueError: Incorrect number of fields (got 6, expect 5)
[13:44] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,167] DEBUG habitat.parser MainThread: Selected payload_configuration 78f93f7877a541d0d88674f28c0afcef for 'TWICK'
[13:44] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:42:30,118] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: Parsing [ascii] '$$TWICK,13:42:17,208,52.472946,-1.909516,11,179*74A9\n' (f54d09efd523520d3da395a0aa4d82affd0ea66984931a52e79b26a6a9d1105f) from TWICK
[13:44] <jededu> [2014-02-07 13:41:51,319] INFO habitat.parser MainThread: All attempts to parse failed
[13:44] <jededu> http://habitat.habhub.org/logtail/
[13:44] <jededu> diddnt mean to do that
[13:44] <jededu> ;(
[13:44] <adamgreig> you don't say
[13:44] <adamgreig> usually good to quit your client when you start doing that
[13:44] <adamgreig> surprised freenode didn't boot you
[13:44] <fsphil> mmm
[13:44] <adamgreig> anyway no it's not ok
[13:44] <fsphil> ValueError: Incorrect number of fields
[13:44] <adamgreig> it has an error message right there: "Incorrect number of fields (got 6, expect 5)"
[13:45] <adamgreig> assuming that is your payload
[13:45] <jededu> It was only 4 lines honest
[13:46] <jededu> pastbin next time
[13:48] <nats`> adamgreig freenode don't kick you it throttles the copy paste
[13:48] <nats`> :)
[13:51] <DL1SGP> salut nats`
[13:52] <nats`> yop DL1SGP :)
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[13:55] <jededu> Fixed
[13:55] M0NSA_A (~HeliosFA@2001:470:6a6f::1deb) joined #highaltitude.
[13:55] Kayaking4autism (~SolarNRG@vasvmail.mtn.com.cy) joined #highaltitude.
[13:56] <Kayaking4autism> Can anyone here weld?
[13:56] <Kayaking4autism> I just bought my first inverter today called a GYS 131, is it any good?
[13:56] chrisstubbs (~chrisstub@host86-128-35-97.range86-128.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[13:56] <brainles71> my brother is pretty good at it
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[13:57] <brainles71> which kind of welding?
[13:57] gonzo__ (~gonzo_@host-78-149-233-41.as13285.net) left irc: Ping timeout: 250 seconds
[13:57] <Kayaking4autism> Arc/stick
[13:58] <Kayaking4autism> I'm just practicing to get my chitty before I think about moving onto either underwater welding or TIG
[13:58] <brainles71> very good sir!
[13:58] <brainles71> it is a fine art
[14:00] <Kayaking4autism> I've been advised to get an arc inverter to practice with before forking out loads of money on a TIG an dipping the rod into the puddle, grinding it down etc. I've been advised to perfect my rod distance, feed rate, angle, steady handedness before doing anything else. I was told the LIDL Parkside inverter was tosh so I got a professional "french" inverter, what I wanna know is, is the
[14:00] <Kayaking4autism> inverter I got any good as a practice rig?
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[14:01] <gonzo___> I just went for the simple soln, mig
[14:02] DL7AD (~quassel@dslb-178-008-095-152.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:02] <jededu> I have a Cebora Tig fantastic
[14:03] <jededu> I think they are french
[14:03] <Kayaking4autism> Jededu, have you ever put the tungsten rod in the puddle before?
[14:03] <Oddstr13> I have a 'radioshack firestarter' - does that count?
[14:03] <jededu> When I first started lots of times
[14:04] <Kayaking4autism> did you have to grind down the rod after?
[14:04] <jededu> Oh Yes
[14:04] <jededu> Contamination
[14:05] <Kayaking4autism> On stick, the box says I got to use 80A for 2.5mm rods but hte dude I learned off said it's better to use 90A, who's right, the book or the guy I'm learning off?
[14:06] <Oddstr13> i would guess it is like soldering iron temperature - personal preference
[14:06] <Kayaking4autism> What metals have you welded?
[14:06] <jededu> You know when it feels right depends on your position speed stuff like that
[14:07] <jededu> steel aluminium stainless
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> Theer is also the issue that rod type and machine type matter
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> 80A on one machine and rod combination may not work as well as 90
[14:08] <SpeedEvil> Sigh.
[14:09] <jededu> True on the cheaper models its very hit and miss
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> 'Sure, you can buy some stainless steel foil' - 100 quid/m^2.'
[14:09] <SpeedEvil> vs '$8/kg, 500kg minimum order' from china
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[14:12] <Kayaking4autism> Surely there's like a 3 grand delivery charge for the container that you have to add on top of that
[14:13] DL1SGP2 (~DL1SGP@dhcp206.signon1.uk.beevpn.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:13] <Kayaking4autism> cheers for the link speedevil
[14:13] <SpeedEvil> I'm not sure what the actual delivery charge would be.
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[14:14] <SpeedEvil> I'm sure that between us, we could mostly fill a container from china each month.
[14:14] <Oddstr13> a container of china goodies?! :o
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[14:15] <Kayaking4autism> Does China make the finest quality stainless tho?
[14:15] <SpeedEvil> For some apps, it's not realy very critical.
[14:21] <gonzo___> and a qty of boefeng radios as packing (well they are probably ckheaper than actual packing meterial)
[14:21] <Kayaking4autism> What are they looking for in a welding exam?
[14:23] DL1SGP (~DL1SGP@dhcp117.signon4.uk.beevpn.com) joined #highaltitude.
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> Kayaking4autism: see the youtube channel
[14:23] <SpeedEvil> also for that site - it has several 'exam' prep
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[14:28] <fsphil> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/eumetsat/12363915135/
[14:28] <fsphil> here we go again
[14:29] <cm13g09> awwww...
[14:29] <cm13g09> not more!
[14:30] <LeoBodnar> beauty https://secure.flickr.com/photos/eumetsat/10726056545/in/photostream/
[14:32] <fsphil> scary
[14:33] kd2eat (~mqh1spam@nat-128-84-124-0-370.cit.cornell.edu) joined #highaltitude.
[14:38] Lunar_LanderU (~chatzilla@131.173.11.237) joined #highaltitude.
[14:38] <Lunar_LanderU> hello!
[14:38] <mikestir> what I want to know is why does it _always_ rain all weekend, even though it may be perfectly fine for a fair bit of both working weeks either side
[14:38] <mikestir> how does it know?!
[14:42] number10 (519a0b85@gateway/web/freenode/ip.81.154.11.133) joined #highaltitude.
[14:44] <Lunar_LanderU> precession of the earth's rotational axis is different due to the Earth Rotation Control Center (ERCC) not being occupied on weekends
[14:45] <LeoBodnar> these guys are on strike http://www.iau.org/science/scientific_bodies/commissions/19/
[14:46] <DL1SGP> Guten Tag Kevin
[14:46] <Lunar_LanderU> hallo
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[15:21] <Geoff-G8DHE> I take it that nothing has been heard from KT5TK-5 ?
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[15:22] <craag> Geoff-G8DHE: I don't think we're expecting anything til late tonight?
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[15:24] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh right, maybe it was 1700 hours then I thought it was earlier ..
[15:25] <Geoff-G8DHE> over the Azores that is
[15:26] <craag> Ah maybe, although that's a rather small target to hit!
[15:27] <craag> Esp with a pico
[15:27] <KT5TK> Wind may be a bit faster over the Atlantic than it was over the continent: http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/500hPa/orthographic=-47.28,29.43,357
[15:27] <Geoff-G8DHE> That is the next APRS station that could receive at least
[15:28] <craag> Yep, I believe it's still gating to snus, so we'll see on there.
[15:29] <craag> Need an irc bot for this :P
[15:29] <Geoff-G8DHE> Actually one that saw a new Balloon appear or re-appear after a few hours might be a good idea!
[15:30] <craag> Yeah
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[15:30] <craag> !alert KT5TK-5 next
[15:30] <craag> It looks at the current latest timestamp, and alerts when a newer timestamp turns up in the snus data
[15:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yes that would be a solution
[15:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> This afternoons job for you ;-)
[15:31] <Maxell> KT5TK-5? Still alive?
[15:31] <KT5TK> craag: Thanks for the alert.
[15:31] <craag> I really should be working...
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[15:31] <craag> sorry KT5TK
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[15:33] <KT5TK> Maxell: We don't know yet.
[15:33] <Lunar_LanderU> hi craag
[15:35] <Maxell> KT5TK: ack.
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[15:46] <Lunar_LanderU> I drew something over lunch
[15:46] <Lunar_LanderU> http://s.gullipics.com/image/i/0/c/ji1rd83-k339y0-wq39/HumidityBoard.jpeg
[15:49] <Lunar_LanderU> wonder if that is a good idea
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[15:54] <Steffanx> Lunar_LanderU, you paper has such nice squares and then you draw it.. rotated? :P
[15:55] <daveake> I was thinking of a close anagram of "rotated"
[15:55] <daveake> :)
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[15:55] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[15:56] <adamgreig> isometric view innit
[15:56] <Lunar_LanderU> :P yea
[16:00] <number10> was it a short lunch break
[16:01] <number10> apologises
[16:01] <UpuWork> lol
[16:03] <gonzo_> at least sibot won't tick you off
[16:03] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
[16:04] <Lunar_LanderU> btw, the paper is from http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/multicolor/
[16:07] <craag> Right, quick and dirty bot done
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[16:09] <UpuWork> what does it do ?
[16:09] <daveake> I want a donut
[16:09] <daveake> ok doesn't do that then
[16:09] <craag> Checks snus output for a KT position of >-60 longitude. If it finds one it posts a message and quits.
[16:10] <cm13g09> craag: what are you up to?!
[16:11] <craag> cm13g09: Coding in node.js again :(((((
[16:11] <craag> I told myself I wouldn't..
[16:11] <cm13g09> LOL
[16:11] <craag> daveake: That's on the 'wishlist' ;)
[16:12] <cm13g09> craag: you should do it as a plugin to rbot
[16:12] <cm13g09> (although that involves Ruby....)
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[16:13] <craag> Well I had existing irc code lying around, and the javascript parsing out of habmap, and setInterval() was all I needed.
[16:14] <cm13g09> lol
[16:14] <cm13g09> fair enough
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[16:28] <Geoff-G8DHE> Good man!
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[17:06] <cuddykid> ping chrisstubbs
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[17:12] <cuddykid> chrisstubbs: PM'd you :)
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[17:19] <Lunar_LanderU> talk to you later!
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[18:42] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[18:42] <craag> Hi Lunar_Lander
[18:48] <Maxell> hello Lunar_Lander
[18:49] <Lunar_Lander> hello
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[18:56] <Lunar_Lander> hi DL1SGP and WB8ELK
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[19:09] <fsphil> http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-lakdawalla/2014/02070836-isee-3.html
[19:09] <fsphil> old satellite about to swing by earth, but it's so old the DSN doesn't have the equipment to transmit commands to it
[19:11] <arko> woah
[19:11] <arko> let try!
[19:11] <arko> lets*
[19:11] <arko> haha im an expert? http://www.planetary.org/connect/our-experts/profiles/ara-kourchians.html
[19:11] <DL1SGP> hehe
[19:12] <fsphil> you stood by a rover. that makes you an expert
[19:12] <Upu> dat beard
[19:12] <fsphil> lol
[19:13] <arko> i have a beard?
[19:13] <arko> i need to find more rovers to stand next to
[19:13] <Upu> there is something attached to your face
[19:13] <arko> a shadow?
[19:13] <arko> oh the little goatee
[19:14] <Upu> bum fluff
[19:14] <Upu> as my Dad used to call it
[19:14] <arko> lol!
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[19:31] <DL7AD> evening
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[19:32] <fsphil> howdy
[19:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening
[19:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> all
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[19:32] <SpeedEvil> eving
[19:32] <SP9UOB-Tom> any news about KT5TK ?
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[19:33] <fsphil> nothing yet
[19:33] <SP9UOB-Tom> pity :-(
[19:33] <DL7AD> it should come soon. next few hours at the azores
[19:33] <kd2eat> What was the predicted wind speed? I was just looking at a map thinking it could well be in Europe by now.
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[19:34] <DL7AD> kd2eat: the model says it should be reached the azores now
[19:35] <fsphil> pico's are rather unpredictable
[19:35] <DL7AD> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypub/arlTraj.swf?client=gme-noaa&channel=OAR.ARL.HQ.HYSPLIT&dir=/hypubout/HYSPLITtraj_129422&data=/hysplit_metadata&ext=html
[19:35] <DL7AD> currently +23h from predictions beginning
[19:35] <DL7AD> fsphil: but a jetstream can be pretty stable
[19:36] <fsphil> would it even be high enough to reach the jetstream?
[19:36] <kd2eat> It was going 100mph as it went off the US coast.
[19:36] <fsphil> ah
[19:36] <fsphil> then yes, it is high enough :)
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[19:37] <kd2eat> Ya, last telemetry was 109mph at 22,022 feet.
[19:37] <SIbot> In real units: 22,022 ft = 7 km
[19:37] <kd2eat> lol
[19:37] <DL7AD> http://i.imgur.com/Mi5PdD1.gif
[19:38] <DL7AD> aviation is measured in feet ;)
[19:38] <fsphil> true
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[19:38] <DL7AD> just gliders are calculating in meters and so on
[19:39] <DL7AD> *in germany
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[19:40] <kd2eat> Hmm. Looks like the last received telemetry was about 60 miles from the digipeter. It looks like the balloon is passing the Azores about 100 miles north. May not hear it without a j-pole or more careful listening.
[19:40] <kd2eat> Or something directional. I mean.
[19:42] <DL7AD> indeed
[19:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b31lg6DTgJw
[19:45] <SP9UOB-Tom> LOL
[19:46] <SP9UOB-Tom> in Poland talking to the phone while driving is prohibited
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[19:53] <Lunar_Lander> yea same here
[19:55] <DL7AD> :D
[19:55] <DL7AD> same here too...
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[20:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: Yoo have to make cookies ;-)
[20:11] <fsphil> oh yea, there's a flight in .au tonight isn't there?
[20:11] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: i will tell my grandma to do this job :P
[20:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: ;-)
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[20:25] <ibanezmatt13> Can't believe I've just figured out a maths problem I've been stuck on since 9 this morning. All because I forgot if you multiply an equation by a negative, you MUST flip the inequality sign!
[20:27] <DL7AD> rofl
[20:27] <kd2eat> Oy!
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[20:27] <ibanezmatt13> the joys of maths... :P
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[20:57] <Lunar_Lander> cosmic forces http://www.uahirise.org/ESP_034285_1835
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[21:01] <fsphil> It was suppose to be an *earth* shattering kaboom
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[23:50] <VK2OMD> Hi Andy, I up on 70cm for pics. Also monitoring PSB as S/N is poor here!
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[23:50] <VK2OMD> Hi Andy, I up on 70cm for pics. Also monitoring PSB as S/N is poor here!
[23:51] <andy_vk3yt_> Thanks Owen
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[23:51] <andy_vk3yt_> almost ready to go
[23:51] <VK2OMD> Good luck OM!
[23:52] <andy_vk3yt_> Can any admin add APRS call sign VK3YT-11 to space near for the duration of the flight?
[23:52] <vk3vcl-p> Morning Campers...A lovely day for operations in Low Earth Orbit I see :)
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[23:53] <andy_vk3yt_> hi wayne, almost ready
[23:54] <vk3vcl-p> Excellent
[23:58] <fsphil> andy_vk3yt_: importer running
[00:00] --- Sat Feb 8 2014