highaltitude.log.20140204

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[06:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> morrn
[06:00] <x-f> mornn
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[06:32] <Chetic> I want to reduce the power load on the rpi regulator by moving the NTX2 VCC to 5v instead of 3v3
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[06:32] <Chetic> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2
[06:33] <Chetic> I currently have that, but VCC is 3v3
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[06:34] <Chetic> is it ok to just move the power supply VCC to 5v and not the voltage divider?
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[06:34] <Chetic> voltage divider VCC*
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[07:15] <Chetic> is there a reason fldigi doesn't let you specify any number for the frequency shift?
[07:16] <x-f> you can do that, choose "custom" from the dropdown
[07:17] <Chetic> oh missed it
[07:18] <daveake> Chetic yes you can move Vcc to 5V and leave the divider on the 3V3 rail
[07:18] <mfa298> Chetic: yes, it's fine to move vcc to 5v and leave the voltage divider on 3v3
[07:18] <mfa298> snap!
[07:19] <daveake> holy simultaneous near duplicates Batman
[07:19] <Chetic> whoa
[07:19] <Chetic> haha
[07:19] <Chetic> that's great news though, thanks
[07:20] <daveake> Also in that case the enable line can be hooked to 3V3 or 5V up to you
[07:21] <mfa298> or a gpio pin if you want to be able to turn it on and off when developing.
[07:21] <Chetic> I'll start by just reconecting vcc to 5v and seeing if I can finally get decent transmission
[07:22] <Chetic> pretty sure the gps is interfering
[07:28] <daveake> model B ?
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[07:34] <Chetic> daveake: yes
[07:34] <daveake> Only supposed to provide 50mA on the 3V3 rail
[07:35] <daveake> And assuming uBlox that spikes up to around 3 times that
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[07:35] <daveake> Worth trying on a model A, or switch off the USB/ethernet chip (I think that's possible)
[07:35] <daveake> back in 15
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[07:37] <Chetic> I am aware of this :)
[07:37] <Chetic> I'm planning on turning of the usb/ethernet chip
[07:37] <Chetic> I'll get a model a if it still doesn't look stable
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[08:39] <ibanezmatt13> ping mfa298
[08:41] <cm13g09_> ibanezmatt13: you may be a bit early for mfa298_
[08:41] Nick change: cm13g09_ -> cm13g09
[08:41] <ibanezmatt13> yeah possibly actually
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> Basically, I've noticed a problem with the latitude function we wrote a while ago. For latitudes east of the prime meridian, I don't think it works. For this sample data: 5231.7334,00013.2436 . The function returns this: 52.528896, 0.220713. Notice the space in front of the latitude
[08:42] <cm13g09> heh
[08:42] <cm13g09> fair enough
[08:42] <ibanezmatt13> I've been looking at the function and I just can't figure it out at all :P
[08:43] <cm13g09> fair enough
[08:43] <cm13g09> I should be writing CRM systems
[08:43] <cm13g09> Suppose I'd better get on with this before the boss gets in ;)
[08:43] <ibanezmatt13> :)
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[08:46] <ibanezmatt13> wait a minute, pasting this: 52.528896, 0.220713 into Google maps reveals a location just east of Cambridge, which must be right. So maybe it is okay...
[08:47] <ibanezmatt13> not sure if the same can be said with Habitat.
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[08:48] <DL7AD> morning
[08:48] <ibanezmatt13> morning
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[08:50] <ibanezmatt13> is there a way to test some position data with Habitat without displaying a payload in an erroneous location? I really need to test to see if what my position functions are returning is correct for locations east of the meridian. It's returning the data like this: 52.528896, 0.220713, not sure if the space in front of the lat is allowed you see
[08:50] <daveake-mob> it is allowed
[08:50] <ibanezmatt13> oh excellent, I'm very pleased :)
[08:51] <daveake-mob> however no reason for not removing it in your code :)
[08:51] <ibanezmatt13> true, trying to figure it out without doing permanent damage :P
[08:52] <daveake-mob> and I think the actual answer to your question is no, you'd need to create a flight doc and upload to the map.
[08:52] <daveake-mob> Well it's hardly permanent!
[08:52] <daveake-mob> The map can be cleared by me or others
[08:52] <daveake-mob> It's stay in habitat forever* though
[08:52] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I'll see if I can spot the problem first
[08:52] <daveake-mob> *for small values of "forever"
[08:53] <daveake-mob> Is this C or Python or ...?
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> C
[08:55] <daveake-mob> on a Pi or AVR or ...?
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> AVR
[08:55] <daveake-mob> dtostrf is your friend
[08:55] <daveake-mob> s/is/will be/
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> already using it :)
[08:55] <ibanezmatt13> probably not in the right place like but using it
[08:55] <daveake-mob> OK you broke something then :)
[08:56] <ibanezmatt13> damn
[08:56] <daveake-mob> Assuming you're using sprintf (or related function) to stitch the values together, check the format string for that first
[08:57] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, just checking now
[08:57] <daveake-mob> should be very straightforward
[08:58] <ibanezmatt13> In checking that, I have just spotted another issue which I should be able to resolve
[08:59] <ibanezmatt13> My function checks the incoming time length is > 6, if it is it trims it up to the decimal place assuming a time like 121243.000. But the only other check is then if it's < 6, return an error. Doesn't most NMEA data time come in as 123412 format though?
[09:00] <ibanezmatt13> So I just need to add another line which checks if the length of the time string coming in is = 6, then if it is just use it as the actual time value
[09:01] <ibanezmatt13> actually that's not an error. If it's not more than 6 and not less than 6 it'll just leave it anyway. Nevermind :P
[09:03] <ibanezmatt13> Ok daveake-mob, I've been using dtostrf() to convert the calculated lat lon floats into strings. Perhaps I should keep them as floats to get rid of any spaces?
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[09:05] <LeoBodnar> morning *
[09:05] <fsphil> morn
[09:05] <ibanezmatt13> morning
[09:07] <daveake-mob> ibanezmatt13: You don't need to do any of that; just get your floats into strings and splat the lot into your telemetry string using sprintf
[09:07] <ibanezmatt13> that's what happens at the minute. Just with a space in front of the longitude (can never remember which one)
[09:08] <fsphil> dtostr() puts a space before postive numbers iirc
[09:08] <ibanezmatt13> oh
[09:08] <ibanezmatt13> That seems silly, but there's usually a reason for these things
[09:09] <fsphil> place holder for the sign
[09:09] <daveake-mob> ah
[09:09] <daveake-mob> I'd forgotten
[09:09] <daveake-mob> OK easy to fix then :)
[09:09] <ibanezmatt13> lol
[09:09] <fsphil> a little trim function would be a nice project :)
[09:09] <ibanezmatt13> it would, but perhaps for a later flight :P
[09:10] <DL7AD> UpuWork: ping
[09:10] <daveake-mob> if (*string == ' ') string++
[09:10] <ibanezmatt13> There must exist a trim function of some sort, I'll see if I can find one
[09:10] <UpuWork> hi DL7AD
[09:11] Action: ibanezmatt13 is working out what that does...
[09:11] <daveake-mob> or, in the sprintf ...... *string == ' ' ? string+1 : string
[09:11] <daveake-mob> probably need some brackets in there
[09:11] <ibanezmatt13> the first one appears simpler
[09:11] <daveake-mob> I can never remember the precedence rules
[09:12] <daveake-mob> Mind you, some compilers can't either
[09:12] <DL7AD> UpuWork: could you tell me the link to farnell's quarz you're using? that small one from epson
[09:12] <DL7AD> i cant find it
[09:13] <UpuWork> yeah give me a mo
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> daveake-mob, the first line to me looks like it loops through each char in the string, so I don't think I'm reading it right
[09:13] <fsphil> what loop?
[09:13] <daveake-mob> no loop
[09:13] <ibanezmatt13> that's what I mean, I can't see a loop but that's what it looks like
[09:13] <DL7AD> UpuWork: np. take your time
[09:13] <fsphil> the first one is a bit risky
[09:13] <daveake-mob> ermm
[09:14] <daveake-mob> no loop to be seen
[09:14] <ibanezmatt13> ok so the second one being safer sounds like a good idea
[09:14] <UpuWork> http://uk.farnell.com/epson/fa-20h-16mhz-10ppm-9pf/crystal-fa-20h-16mhz-10ppm-9pf/dp/1712814
[09:14] <fsphil> if you did run it in a loop, and string was pointing at a buffer, and it kept moving the pointer each time
[09:15] <daveake-mob> it won't 'cos the next character won't be a space
[09:15] <daveake-mob> even if it was it'd stop at the end of the string
[09:15] <daveake-mob> but I do see your point
[09:15] <fsphil> next time you write to string though
[09:15] <ibanezmatt13> oh yeah I see, it's at the start
[09:15] <fsphil> it'll write to the buffer+1
[09:15] <fsphil> and string++ again
[09:15] <daveake-mob> good point well made :)
[09:15] <daveake-mob> ok ignore first one there be a bomb
[09:15] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[09:16] <fsphil> the second one in a little function would work well
[09:16] <DL7AD> UpuWork: but they dont have a 8mhz version, do they?
[09:16] <daveake-mob> for a safe version, make a second variable
[09:16] <fsphil> char *ltrim(char *string) { return(*string == ' ' ? string + 1 : string); }
[09:16] <daveake-mob> yes
[09:16] <daveake-mob> even better
[09:17] <UpuWork> no idea
[09:17] <UpuWork> I use that at 2Mhz
[09:17] <UpuWork> with DIV/8 set
[09:17] <ibanezmatt13> Don't understand fully what all that does. I'll have to go through it
[09:17] <DL7AD> UpuWork: at which voltage?
[09:17] <fsphil> it's not too bad, the ( a ? b : c ) structure is probably the trickiest bit
[09:18] <ibanezmatt13> that might be why it's confusing me :)
[09:18] <fsphil> it's called a ternary operator
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[09:19] <ibanezmatt13> I'll google it
[09:19] <fsphil> it's a short hand way of saying if(something) result = a; else result = b;
[09:19] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, that sounds good
[09:20] <ibanezmatt13> so when I call that function, I'd do something like new_latitude = *ltrim(old_latitude); ?
[09:21] <fsphil> without the *
[09:21] <ibanezmatt13> oh yea
[09:21] <fsphil> or just call it from the arguments of sprintf()
[09:21] <ibanezmatt13> yeah that's a point, I'll try that, do it all in one go
[09:22] <ibanezmatt13> so the string + 1 basically shifts the string up, removing the space but adding one to it's length?
[09:22] <fsphil> it moves the pointer to the start of the string
[09:23] <fsphil> string is just a pointer to the memory address of the first character
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes, I remember this
[09:23] <fsphil> that adds 1 to the pointer
[09:23] <fsphil> so it's pointing to the second character
[09:23] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, that makes sense
[09:23] <fsphil> *string is the actual character string points to
[09:23] <fsphil> pointers can be tricky things
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> got a little error with new_lon = ltrim(new_lon); incompatible types in assignment of 'char*' to 'char [12] So I can't specify the buffer length if I want to trim?
[09:26] <ibanezmatt13> I need a new variable don't I, with undefined length like char* new_newlon :)
[09:28] <ibanezmatt13> that seems to have fixed it
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[09:32] <mfa298> ibanezmatt13: pong (sorry was stuck in traffic)
[09:33] <ibanezmatt13> no worries mfa298, the functions are fine :)
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[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> daveake-mob, could you clear the map please? :)
[09:36] <ibanezmatt13> or anybody else with that authority :P
[09:37] <mfa298> I was just scrolling through the scrollback.
[09:38] <mfa298> looks like you've had some fun tips (which will make sense at some point after you think you understand pointers)
[09:40] <ibanezmatt13> yeah. Saying that you understand pointers is like saying you know how the universe was created. You official belong to an elite selection of programmers once you understand pointers... that kind of thing :)
[09:41] <mfa298> once they click you will realise that in general they are really obvious, it just takes a while to click (and it helps when you're writing lots of code)
[09:42] <ibanezmatt13> I mean, it seems obvious that you have these memory cells which have an address and you can store characters in them, and a pointer just points to a particular cell etc. It does make sense, it's just putting it into practice you tend to stumble upon some sort of issue of understanding
[09:43] <jdiez> hey guys, so I was just thinking about ways to recover a payload assuming 433 MHz telemetry is unavailable
[09:44] <jdiez> so in the UK using amateur radio frequencies is illegal if the payload is airborne
[09:44] <jdiez> but& once the payload has landed, it should be legal to use those frequencies (and the power limits associated with them), right?
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[09:46] <mfa298> once landed using AR is potentially ok although you might need to check the status of unattended beacons, although you might be trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
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[09:56] <jdiez> mfa298: just trying to go for reliability
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[09:59] <fsphil> once you're on the ground reliability will drop
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[09:59] <fsphil> depending on where you land
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[10:00] <fsphil> for all radio systems, unless they're communicating with a satellite or something else very high up
[10:00] <ibanezmatt13> fsphil, I've just realised that I only need to trim the lon for positive values, as you said before which I forgot. Would a suitable test to see if the string begins with a - sign? If so, leave it
[10:00] <fsphil> that's the big advantage to transmitting wile in flight - your payload will have the height so the reciever won't need to be high
[10:01] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: how would that be better than testing for a space?
[10:01] <ibanezmatt13> oh of course, the function only trims it if it does have a space -_-
[10:01] <ibanezmatt13> nevermind
[10:02] <Sytex_AWAY> ibanezmatt13: why do you use negative values to lat/lon? Why don't you use N,S,E,W? So you don't need a placeholder.
[10:02] <fsphil> euu
[10:03] <fsphil> real numbers ftw :)
[10:03] <ibanezmatt13> Erm, I don't know I just go with it :)
[10:04] <Sytex_AWAY> I don't want to convice you, just asking.
[10:04] <mfa298> Sytex_AWAY: currently dl-fldigi will show distance and bearing if you use the decimal degrees format -52.000 etc. if you use the dddmm format it can't work it out.
[10:05] <mfa298> but that's about the only real reason for going with that format - and someone could always add the functionality into dl-fldigi
[10:06] <Sytex_AWAY> So than you have to have a blank space when it is a positive number? Or fl-digi (and the server) strips the whole string at commas?
[10:06] <fsphil> I've always though the GPS style to be quite ugly
[10:06] <DL1SGP> good morning everyone
[10:07] Nick change: Sytex_AWAY -> Sytex_WORK
[10:08] <fsphil> morning DL1SGP
[10:08] <craag> Sytex_WORK: It's stripped at commas. No you don't need a blank space.
[10:08] <craag> Just prepend a '-' when it's negative.
[10:08] <mfa298> I'm not sure than any of the standard ground software cares about extra spaces but I've not tested that.
[10:09] <fsphil> probably not, but it's a wasted byte :)
[10:09] <mfa298> or if you're storing in floats if the direction is W multiply the value by -1. Although I think the issue is that dtostr might be adding the space if the number is +ve, hence the possible need to strip the space.
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[10:13] <ibanezmatt13> please anybody feel free to clear the map
[10:15] <Sytex_WORK> what about convert it to two integers (full, frac)and sprintf it?
[10:16] <mfa298> Sytex_WORK: you're free to do whatever you want in your code, as long as it gets transmitted in a useable format (habitat works with both formats, dl-fldigi only uses the one format at present)
[10:19] <Sytex_WORK> Okay, I'm just writing my code, and posting/asking here my ideas. If someone writes only at one idea: "Don't do that, I had a lot of problems with that!" Then it saved a lot of time for me. But I will stop 'brainstorming' here. Sry.
[10:19] <craag> I tend to transmit lat*1000,lon*1000 as signed integers. But yes, dl-fldigi currently gets a bit confused by this. (Thinks the balloon is at 51000 degrees of latitude)
[10:21] <craag> Sytex_WORK: Don't worry, theres many different ways of doing stuff, and we like to let people choose their own way rather than telling them which way to go.
[10:21] <Sytex_WORK> undertood
[10:21] <Sytex_WORK> *s
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[10:24] <craag> There's a fair few people who don't like the 1000x as integer method as it breaks dl-fldigi's status display. But meh, it works for data decoding, makes it easy for me, so I do it :)
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[10:27] <fsphil> it's a flexable standard :)
[10:27] <fsphil> saves us having 20 'standards'
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[10:29] <Chetic> good men
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[10:57] <SpeedEvil> http://www.interlinkexpress.com/apps/tracking/?parcel=15976956441812 - I have to say - I like this
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[11:03] <fsphil> "Please try again later." --- *"After it's been lost.. I mean, delivered."
[11:04] <SpeedEvil> It's barking mad not to do this.
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[11:04] <SpeedEvil> It costs fuck-all on the back-end and increases to at least some degree the hit-rate of drivers.
[11:05] Nick change: Sytex_WORK -> Sytex_AWAY
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[11:08] <fsphil> it didn't load for me
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[11:09] <fsphil> "We are currently experiencing issues retrieving your parcel information at this time"
[11:09] <craag> I got the same
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> It's a nice tracker - with '
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> Billy is currently making delivery number 3, you are delivery number 21.
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> Billy is approximately 1 hour 15 minutes away from you.
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> You can watch Billy's progress on our map.
[11:09] <craag> :)
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> I think it actually means 'has made delivery number 3' - as that's the last one reported
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[11:15] <fsphil> that would be very handy
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[11:32] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb__: averaging across several msec works quite well if there are no bit edges
[11:33] <SpeedEvil> :)
[11:33] <LeoBodnar> this is counter-intuitive
[11:33] <LeoBodnar> still AGC on 4110 is suspect
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[12:35] <Laurenceb__> LeoBodnar: you got it to work?
[12:35] <Laurenceb__> this is with the doppler still treated normally?
[12:37] <LeoBodnar> yeah still normal doppler
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> I don't understand why the correlation from 1ms to another is changing by massive amount
[12:38] <Laurenceb__> id suspect AGC issues
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> tried running sampling from battery - no difference
[12:39] <Laurenceb__> oh :-/
[12:41] <fsphil> Dune: http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA17766.jpg
[12:41] <fsphil> the hills in the distance look like clouds
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[12:48] <LeoBodnar> looks like a good holidays place
[12:54] <fsphil> seems like they're going to try driving over it
[13:00] <gurgalof> aww, got a response from the authorities, it's a no go for balloons with a payload even how small it is without a permit
[13:01] <gurgalof> and a permit costs 4200SEK
[13:03] <gurgalof> my picoballon dreams are crushed
[13:04] <mattbrejza> are you allowed to let go of a party balloon outside?
[13:05] <mattbrejza> i would have thought there would be some limit
[13:06] <gurgalof> party balloon yes
[13:06] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: it's the 2m limitbasically
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[13:07] <mattbrejza> oh the balloon is fine its just the payload
[13:07] <adamgreig> oh right
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[13:10] <fsphil> that's pretty awful
[13:10] <fsphil> maybe you can launch under your met offices permit
[13:11] <mattbrejza> is that 4200 per launch, or like per launchsite per year?
[13:12] <gurgalof> mattbrejza: thats per launch
[13:12] <mattbrejza> oh right
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[13:13] <SpeedEvil> gurgalof: where are you?
[13:13] <gurgalof> Sweden
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[13:16] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
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[13:33] <SpeedEvil> gurgalof: I would strongly recommend actually going and finding where the specific law is written down, and if they are interpreting it correctly
[13:34] <nats`> 475euro !
[13:34] <nats`> oO
[13:35] <nats`> my god
[13:35] <nats`> it's at least ten time the price of the balloon
[13:36] <gurgalof> SpeedEvil: already done that
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[13:52] Nick change: Laurenceb__ -> Laurenceb
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[14:22] <Lunar_LanderU> does someone know the type of the normal arduino reset switch, i.e. a simple button press with four legs?
[14:23] <Lunar_LanderU> single pole single throw I suppose
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[14:26] <fsphil> micro switch
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[14:28] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[14:29] <fsphil> or just mini-push button switch https://www.sparkfun.com/products/97
[14:34] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[14:35] <LeoBodnar> Lunar_LanderU: they are often called "tact switch"
[14:35] <Lunar_LanderU> ah
[14:39] <fsphil> or "those little switches that keep breaking in computer mice"
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[14:46] <Oddstr13> gurgalof: aww, i'd love a balloon launch near here
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[14:57] <keydash> hello!
[14:58] <fsphil> afternoon
[15:00] <keydash> have been a long time
[15:00] <keydash> i don't come here
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[15:04] <BalloonYOLO> hi. im trying to test a dongle using sdrsharp and currently have no audio input or output. any help would be much appreciated
[15:04] <BalloonYOLO> *audio input or output
[15:04] <keydash> you see the spectrum?
[15:05] Nick change: Guest65488 -> Guest48144
[15:05] Nick change: Guest48144 -> danielsaul
[15:06] Nick change: danielsaul -> Guest58196
[15:07] <BalloonYOLO> no. just getting an error message
[15:07] <Oddstr13> what error message? screenshot it
[15:07] <keydash> have you installed the zadig driver?
[15:08] <BalloonYOLO> zadig is installed successfully.
[15:09] <BalloonYOLO> error message 'output referance not set to an instance of an object'
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[15:14] <mfa298> what software are you using with the dongle ?
[15:16] <BalloonYOLO> using zadig as the driver and sdrsharp software to test dongle.
[15:16] <keydash> change de usb port and retry
[15:17] <mfa298> have you got all the bits required for sdrsharp (you should see something like rtl-sdr (usb) in the dropdown at the top
[15:18] <gurgalof> Oddstr13: where do you live?
[15:18] <Oddstr13> gurgalof: Rennebu, Norway
[15:19] <Miek> BalloonYOLO: it seems like sdrsharp requires an audio device
[15:19] <mfa298> if you used the sdr-install.zip set of scripts you'll have the bits it needs. if you just grabbed the stable or dev zip files they're missing various bits for the dongle
[15:21] <gurgalof> Oddstr13: Is it possible to launch a picoballoon from Norway without getting ruined?
[15:22] Nick change: ghoti_ -> ghoti
[15:22] <Oddstr13> gurgalof: no idea, i havn't looked into it yet
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[15:26] <keydash> there's a way i can set fl-digi to write the recevied values to a txt file?
[15:27] <Oddstr13> keydash: check the menu
[15:27] <daveake-mob> Yeah, right-click the text area and choose "Save As"
[15:28] <Oddstr13> File-> Text Capture
[15:28] <Oddstr13> never tried that feature tho :P
[15:29] <keydash> well, it does it live?
[15:29] <keydash> i haven't fl-digi here
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[15:32] <fsphil> fldigi listens on a TCP port, which if you connect to will give you the decoded text in real time
[15:33] <keydash> ok
[15:33] <keydash> i'll check later if i can write live to a txt file locally
[15:33] <fsphil> port 7322
[15:33] <keydash> ok
[15:33] <keydash> thanks fsphil
[15:33] <keydash> now i've got to find offline maps
[15:39] <mfa298> keydash: if you've got an android phone and your using 50/300 rtty try out the "HAB Tracker" it decodes 50/300 rtty in realtime and uses an offline OSM maptile you download in advance
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[15:39] <keydash> yeah that's my case
[15:40] <keydash> hmm
[15:40] <keydash> but i use sdr-dongle
[15:42] <keydash> woah
[15:42] <keydash> it's a really good app
[15:43] <keydash> gratz for who created it
[15:44] <mfa298> might be a bit more challenging with a dongle. although I think mattbrejza (the creator) was wondering about adding sdr support to it (but it's probably on the bottom of a lng list)
[15:44] <keydash> well
[15:44] <mfa298> there is an sdr app for android which works with rtl dongle (possibly called sdrtouch)
[15:45] <keydash> yes i've got it
[15:45] <mfa298> but you need a device that supports usb otg
[15:45] <keydash> and working
[15:45] <keydash> the driver and the app
[15:45] <keydash> but it would be a nice baterry drain
[15:46] <mfa298> if you can get them both apps going together (sdr and modem) then you're not far off a nice solution - not sure you can pipe the audio suitably though - although a special headphone jack connecting the mic pin to the headphones pins might work)
[15:47] <keydash> i'll look forward to do it
[15:48] <keydash> mainly, first i need the gps module
[15:48] <keydash> now i just have the ntx2 and 2 temp sensors
[15:56] <keydash> can i connect a piece of wire to RFout of ntx2?
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[16:16] <mfa298> about 16cm of wire on rfout will give a reasonable antenna
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[16:25] <jededu> I have a whip antenna with a cutting chart that tells me to cut it at 125 mm
[16:26] <jededu> Correct ?
[16:26] <mfa298> for 433MHz it should be 16.4cm (300/(433*4))*.95
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[16:27] <jededu> Thats what I thought
[16:27] <keydash> any kind of wire?
[16:28] <mfa298> jededu: your whip antenna cutting chart might be making allowances if there's a coil at the base of the antenna or for any parts of the antenna in the base.
[16:28] <mfa298> keydash: pretty much anything should work.
[16:28] <keydash> nice
[16:29] <jededu> could be ill check its a wsm-138
[16:30] <keydash> i'm planning to try with a red wire inside a usb wire
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[16:40] Action: Oddstr13 uses a phone cable wire as FM radio antenna
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[16:51] <Rocketmagnet> Hello
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[17:01] <keydash> insted a gopro (which is very expensive)
[17:01] <keydash> what video camera can be handy to record the flight?
[17:05] <ibanezmatt13> Canon cameras are good because you can use CHDK to program them to do things. Dirt cheap on Ebay too
[17:06] <ibanezmatt13> Certainly a decent yet cheap alternative to a GoPro assuming you can make your box in such a way the camera doesn't overheat
[17:08] <keydash> but I want video
[17:08] <ibanezmatt13> yep, exactly
[17:09] <keydash> hmm
[17:09] <ibanezmatt13> Use CHDK to make it record continuous video, or mix and match. Very versatile
[17:09] <keydash> i'm affraid of the battery run out
[17:10] <ibanezmatt13> well, I had that issue too. But with CHDK again, you can disable certain features like the LCD display. I get 3.5 hours on mine now. Though if you fancied taking it apart you could design your own regulated PSU perhaps?
[17:10] <ibanezmatt13> That is, 3.5 hours off shoving 2 Energizer Lithium AAs in
[17:10] <keydash> nice
[17:11] <ibanezmatt13> I mean they're so cheap, you might as well have a look at one to have a play around with. It's great fun manipulating cameras :)
[17:11] <fsphil> our first flight with a canon, the camera froze
[17:11] <keydash> that's the another question xD
[17:11] <fsphil> or at least the grease on the machanism did
[17:11] <ibanezmatt13> lol, did you insulate it well enough fsphil? ;P
[17:11] <fsphil> it as only taking a picture every minute
[17:11] <fsphil> on the second fligth I had it taking a picture every 10 seconds
[17:11] <fsphil> and it worked fine
[17:12] <ibanezmatt13> ah. Yes that's a point keydash. Recording constant video generates A LOT of heat
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[17:12] <fsphil> remembering to disable flash and the screen
[17:12] <fsphil> that'll save some power and heat
[17:12] <ibanezmatt13> Yup
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[17:12] <keydash> well, for taking pictures every minute will be fine
[17:12] <keydash> pity of the video but...
[17:12] <fsphil> keep it well insulated then
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[17:13] <ibanezmatt13> yes definitely. If the box is suitable that should be perfect for you.
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[17:13] <fsphil> but if you've got the disk space, why not take loads of pics :)
[17:13] <ibanezmatt13> Why not take constant video?
[17:13] <keydash> constant video... maybe for the heat as you say and the battery drain
[17:14] <fsphil> they tend to take better pictures than video
[17:14] <ibanezmatt13> Yep there is that, but it can be avoided if you're careful about it, I'm sure. Though can't say for definite. I'm gonna see what mixing and matching vids and pics is like
[17:14] <keydash> well
[17:15] <daveake-tab> If you record video through the flight, you'll have a lot of boring video. Just video the best bits.
[17:15] <keydash> which chdk cameras can be good for taking pics?
[17:15] <daveake-tab> Any of the compacts that take AAs
[17:16] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah. I use a powershot SX150IS but there are loads out there. Mine's quite a bulky one actually :)
[17:16] <fsphil> the A480 seems popular
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[17:16] <daveake-tab> One of them (A810 ?) has a wider lend
[17:17] <daveake-tab> I use the 490/495 as they're the lightest
[17:17] <daveake-tab> Lens
[17:19] <keydash> 495 seems good
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[17:20] <keydash> and have a good price
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[17:21] <ibanezmatt13> daveake-tab, when you say to video the best bits, do you just have a CHDK script which knows after say an hour of photos, film for an hour, then carry on taking pics or whatever?
[17:21] <ibanezmatt13> ie based on delays
[17:21] <keydash> i'll keep looking for the camera, thanks for your advices
[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> daveake-tab, for filming only the best bits do you just use calculated delays between different events in the script? So it takes photos for the first 10 minutes, then video for launch, then pics for a bit, then a bit of vid an hour into flight etc?
[17:22] <daveake-tab> No i use a pi and do it on altitude :-)
[17:22] <ibanezmatt13> Pi Cam?
[17:22] <daveake-tab> Yes
[17:23] <ibanezmatt13> Yea, I meant how did you do it on previous flights with the Canons
[17:23] <daveake-tab> For those i used a separate video recorder
[17:24] <ibanezmatt13> right, gotcha. So my only hopes are to get the delays right :P
[17:24] <daveake-tab> Out use as separate video recorder
[17:24] <daveake-tab> Or
[17:24] <daveake-tab> A
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[17:25] <ibanezmatt13> nah, I'd have to rework entire box and buy one. I'm happy with any footage tbh. At least it won't have a silicone aperture :P
[17:25] <daveake-tab> Trying to use a sold camera for 3 hours of video sounds like asking for trouble
[17:25] <daveake-tab> Stills
[17:25] <daveake-tab> Silly autocorrect
[17:26] <ibanezmatt13> Yes, that's why I'm planning on taking a 1 minute video, followed by one minute of pics (4 a minute), in a loop
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[17:26] <daveake-tab> You don't need that much video
[17:26] <daveake-tab> Believe me it's not that exciting
[17:26] Action: ibanezmatt13 likes video :/
[17:26] <daveake-tab> Meh
[17:27] <ibanezmatt13> I see your point though
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[17:27] <daveake-tab> It's nice to see the launch, the bit before burst, burst, and landing as videos
[17:28] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah those are the bits I wanted to catch
[17:28] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPjI1YNi4uc&feature=player_detailpage#t=604
[17:28] <Laurenceb> uh oh
[17:28] <keydash> comming home, see you later
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[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> daveake-tab, what would you do if you wanted to catch videos of the good bits and only pics of the bits in between using CHDK only? Just out of curiosity
[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> And please don't say "I wouldn't" :)
[17:31] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: greatly improved with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqG1l4lScsg
[17:32] <craag> ibanezmatt13: You could try timing it, but you would have to have a good bit of faith in a target ascent rate and predictable burst.
[17:33] <craag> Only other way is whether you could input a trigger to CHDK somehow?
[17:33] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, I think timing it is the best I'm gonna do. I'll have a think about it. Any footage better than none at all though
[17:34] <craag> I thought on some you could read the status of a usb-connected remote trigger
[17:34] <craag> Which shorted out the usb data pins or something
[17:35] <ibanezmatt13> That sounds like it would definitely be something you could do, just not something I'm gonna do this time round. But a good idea
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[17:35] <ibanezmatt13> My next project would be SSDV using AVRs. That just must be awesome if it's possible. A NORB board with serial cam. That'd be great :)
[17:35] <ibanezmatt13> I think fsphil did it?
[17:36] <craag> He did, with the old sparkfun serial cameras
[17:36] <craag> They spat out JPEG blocks nice and slow
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[17:36] <ibanezmatt13> That'd be nice tho, I'd feel I'd achieved something doing that :)
[17:36] <craag> Yep definitely! :)
[17:37] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Nasty. Is that a shaped charge - followeup by another in the samehole?
[17:37] <ibanezmatt13> Ok guys, NORB 3: AVR based SSDV with telemetry and some other cool thing (to be thought of)
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[17:38] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: something like that
[17:38] <Laurenceb> also armoured donkeys
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[17:41] <SpeedEvil> Aww - they diddn't actually fire it of the donkey.
[17:42] <LeoBodnar> They the motor in between two charges
[17:42] <LeoBodnar> *have
[17:43] <Laurenceb> donkey to tank missile
[17:43] <SpeedEvil> One breaching charge, then another will fuck up a hell of a lot of armour.
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[18:12] <henryplumb> Hi all. Building a Pi tracker and wondering how to do SSDV images and telemetry at the same time? Anyone got any tips?
[18:14] <mattbrejza> either you transmit an image followed by telem, or you have two transmitters
[18:16] <henryplumb> I have a python telemetry program I wrote. How do I do SSDV, stop the telem, send the image then back to teelem?
[18:16] <henryplumb> * telem#
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[18:18] <mattbrejza> not sure, youll have to ask someone whos used a pi before
[18:21] <mfa298> you could stick it all in the same programme, send an ssdv packet then send a telem string
[18:22] <mfa298> running seperate programmes is likely to cause issues
[18:22] <keydash> hi
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[18:23] <mfa298> I'd stay away from doing two transmitters on the Pi unless you're an experienced coder.
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[18:30] <fsphil> ibanezmatt13: yep, totally possible :)
[18:30] <ibanezmatt13> sweet :)
[18:30] <fsphil> that's how it used to be done when I where a lad, AVR and uart camera
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> sounds old school
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> but fun
[18:35] <mikestir> if you fancy learning about FPGAs I've got some 2Mpixel camera modules with a built in JPEG encoder :)
[18:35] <ibanezmatt13> I don't know what that is :/
[18:37] <mikestir> I need to find some time to play with them. It may well be possible to bodge them onto one of the larger AVRs without external logic
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[18:38] <mikestir> I got them off ebay - they're much cheaper than any serial cameras I've seen
[18:38] <ibanezmatt13> yeah I've heard a few of these serial cams are quite expensive
[18:39] <Upu> use a Pi
[18:39] <Upu> and you won't hear me say that much
[18:40] <Upu> oh ibanezmatt13 I have a yagi for you at work
[18:40] <Upu> but it needs some wire on it
[18:40] <Upu> and I don't have any RG174 or something
[18:40] <ibanezmatt13> ah right
[18:40] <Upu> err RG58
[18:40] <Upu> you can use the Diamond if you want
[18:41] <Upu> but its very bulky and the reflector is held on with pink gaffer
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> Anything that will help us find it on the ground
[18:41] <Upu> I just need to find some RG58
[18:41] <Upu> may risk going to the club sometime :/
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> We can get some no problem on the way up
[18:41] <ibanezmatt13> plenty coax round here
[18:41] <Upu> oh ok cool just needs a connector on it as well ofc
[18:42] <Upu> antenna was a sample someone sent me
[18:42] <Upu> antenna was ok
[18:42] <Upu> cable was dire
[18:42] <Upu> it just fell off
[18:42] <ibanezmatt13> oh dear
[18:42] <ibanezmatt13> I guess the Diamond is not a Yagi then, a vertical one?
[18:43] <Upu> no the Diamond is what you borrowed before
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> oh right, that worked great.
[18:43] <Upu> it will its huge :)
[18:43] <ibanezmatt13> Though one of the radials was held on with pink gaffer also iirc
[18:43] <Upu> thats the one
[18:44] <ibanezmatt13> lol, well that would be awesome
[18:44] <Upu> http://www.diamondantenna.net/a430s10.html
[18:44] <Upu> fsphil joined two of those up
[18:44] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes, we had good fun getting that thing out of the car
[18:44] <fsphil> the pink tape officially makes it 3.85 times better
[18:44] <fsphil> they're good antenna, even one of them will happly decode flights at silly ranges
[18:45] <Upu> not really portable though
[18:45] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/Antenna/iqar5.jpg
[18:45] <fsphil> their main flaw. they *just* fit into my back seat in the car
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> You should have seen my Dad and I getting it out
[18:45] <Upu> yeah i have this sample yagi
[18:45] <Upu> its 5 elements
[18:45] <Upu> nice and small
[18:45] <ibanezmatt13> Though I remember just leaving it plugged in on the back seat and it still got a decode :P
[18:45] <gurgalof> nice
[18:45] <Upu> not as nice as the Arrow
[18:46] <fsphil> yay I recognise that
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[18:46] <Upu> but cheaper
[18:46] <Upu> as in free
[18:46] <fsphil> anyone notice the totally intentional mistake in that picture?
[18:47] <craag> Anti-phase!
[18:47] <fsphil> yep lol
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[18:47] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, so the backup and Yagi all ready yup?
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[18:49] <ibanezmatt13> unfortunately, the winds are so shockingly dreadful, I'm not sure when the launch will happen
[18:50] <daveake-tab> 2015
[18:50] <LeoBodnar> next century looks good
[18:50] <ibanezmatt13> earliest
[18:51] <ibanezmatt13> awesome, the hourly forecast's nearerst landing location is in Amsterdam. That should make for a nice chase
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> Some nice dutch pancakes too
[18:52] <Upu> I wasn't aware that phased antenna setup was wrong :)
[18:52] <Upu> yes ibanezmatt13
[18:52] <daveake-tab> Can't remember the last time I went 2 months without launching :p
[18:52] <Upu> just tell me when you're coming over
[18:52] <Upu> BRON is ready
[18:52] <ibanezmatt13> cool. Will do, won't be until we get a good prediction I would have thought though
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> Oh yes BRON! :)
[18:53] <ibanezmatt13> Upu, BRON's freq won't interfere with 434.550 will it?
[18:53] <Upu> no idea what I set it too
[18:53] Action: ibanezmatt13 checks emails
[18:53] <Upu> its on the sticker on the box it in
[18:54] <Upu> afk cooking
[18:54] <fsphil> I had wondered why I was getting two positions where the signal was strongest
[18:54] <daveake-tab> :-)
[18:54] <fsphil> didn't notice until I got home and looked at the pic
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[18:55] <fsphil> glad that wasn't on my roof
[18:55] <fsphil> all sealed up and inaccessable
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[19:01] <Upu> only issue with that antenna is the connector
[19:05] <jededu> 1st step GPS working :)
[19:05] <Upu> always a good step
[19:07] <jededu> It locked on quicker than i thought
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[19:19] <fsphil> it'll only be slow when you don't want it to be
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[19:20] <jcoxon> always the night before
[19:20] <jcoxon> one final test you say
[19:20] <jcoxon> and then you wait...
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[19:22] <jededu> I dont doubt you are correct cant wait
[19:24] <fsphil> yep
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[19:25] <Lunar_Lander> hello again
[19:25] <fsphil> ello
[19:26] <craag> evenin
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[20:47] <S_Mark> Does anyone have a screen shot of the spacenear map filled with receiver icons that they wouldn't mind sharing?
[20:48] <Upu> checking
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah for a talk :)?
[20:49] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/flights/xaben_19022012.jpg
[20:50] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/HAB/flights/apex_29022012.jpg
[20:50] <Upu> we have so many more recievers now
[20:50] <S_Mark> Yeah loads on a good day! These look great cheers upu
[20:51] <Upu> oh wait
[20:51] <Upu> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63720513/Images/PAVA9/pava-12012014-3.jpg
[20:51] <Upu> try that :)
[20:51] <fsphil> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/fsphil/11149022746
[20:52] <fsphil> man pava really did cover some distance
[20:52] <S_Mark> cheers upu that looks good.
[20:52] <Upu> Bad, bad panda!
[20:52] <Upu> Come on. We want photos.
[20:52] <Upu> Were aware of the problem and are fixing it. Thanks for your patience.
[20:52] <Upu> that link fsphil :)
[20:52] <S_Mark> Bad panda
[20:52] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[20:53] <Upu> was still going fsphil :)
[20:53] <fsphil> lol
[20:54] <fsphil> mine was still going too ... going down
[20:54] <Upu> 2900km on a single AAA
[20:54] <Upu> thats some MPG
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> yay!
[20:54] <fsphil> MPA
[20:54] <fsphil> miles per amp
[20:54] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[20:54] <fsphil> or MPAH
[20:54] <Upu> that could be the new gauge of how efficient a payload is
[20:54] <fsphil> bah, units
[20:55] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:09] <jededu> Has anybody tested Li-Po's at altitude
[21:10] <Upu> yeah
[21:10] <Upu> they may fail but generally ok
[21:12] <jededu> Catastrophic or just pack up ive got quite a few
[21:12] <Upu> well Leo has flown them extensively
[21:12] <Upu> you can charge them if you get them above 0'C
[21:13] <Upu> but the altitudes he was flying at weren't as high as the larger latex balloons can go
[21:13] <Upu> if you're just going up / down use the Energizer Lithiums
[21:13] <jededu> Sounds live a better idea
[21:13] <jededu> like
[21:14] <S_Mark> looks like flickr is down - not just you fsphil
[21:14] <Upu> they've seen -60'C and still worked
[21:14] <Upu> just
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> I got a stupid question
[21:14] <fsphil> it's working for me S_Mark :)
[21:14] <Lunar_Lander> for my cap tester project, the guy who developed it gives the ASM file for the micro
[21:15] <Lunar_Lander> is that to be compiled in AVR Studio or so?
[21:15] <S_Mark> ah thats ok then http://techcrunch.com/2014/02/04/yahoo-goes-down/
[21:15] <fsphil> probably the NSA updating their intercept routers
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[22:11] <S_Mark> does anyone know of an easy straight line distance measurer?
[22:11] <Upu> given two points ?
[22:11] <Upu> http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html
[22:11] <S_Mark> yeah
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[22:29] <S_Mark_> \nick
[22:29] Nick change: S_Mark_ -> S_Mark
[22:29] <S_Mark> lol
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[22:47] <adwiens_KC0WYS> http://hackaday.com/2014/02/04/gps-for-a-graphing-calculator/
[22:47] <adwiens_KC0WYS> lulz
[22:48] <adwiens_KC0WYS> a calculator balloon would be hilarious
[22:48] <Upu> haha
[22:48] <Upu> nice
[22:49] <S_Mark> that looks like something you would do chrisstubbs lol
[22:49] <S_Mark> HABCalc next?
[22:52] Action: adwiens_KC0WYS stares at the TI83+ on his desk
[22:55] <jededu> Does anybody have an example GPS data string to hand
[22:57] <S_Mark> jededu: http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/ept/_list/csv/payload_telemetry/flight_payload_time?include_docs=true&startkey=[%2210655453e558bb16f368015f4439fe49%22,%2210655453e558bb16f368015f4419b71e%22]&endkey=[%2210655453e558bb16f368015f4439fe49%22,%2210655453e558bb16f368015f4419b71e%22,[]]&fields=_sentence,_receivers,sentence_id,time,latitude,longitude,altitude,gps_lock,satellites,temperature_internal,temperature_ext
[22:57] <S_Mark> ernal
[22:57] <S_Mark> http://habitat.habhub.org/habitat/_design/ept/_list/csv/payload_telemetry/flight_payload_time?include_docs=true&startkey=[%2210655453e558bb16f368015f4439fe49%22,%2210655453e558bb16f368015f4419b71e%22]&endkey=[%2210655453e558bb16f368015f4439fe49%22,%2210655453e558bb16f368015f4419b71e%22,[]]&fields=_sentence,_receivers,sentence_id,time,latitude,longitude,altitude,gps_lock,satellites,temperature_internal,temperature_external
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> arg
[22:58] <Laurenceb_> my scrollbarz :P
[22:58] <S_Mark> lol sorry
[22:58] <jededu> Thanks
[22:59] <S_Mark> jededu: you can see all stats from previous flights using this nice tool http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[22:59] <chrisstubbs> S_Mark, nope, needs to do SSDV too
[22:59] <chrisstubbs> or at least rtty
[23:00] <S_Mark> I'm sure you can wiggle the 0 and 1 keys quick enough
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[00:00] --- Wed Feb 5 2014