highaltitude.log.20140122

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[07:03] <Chetic> so does anybody have an explanation for my garbled radio reception?: http://imgur.com/rWIsYts,QfQeRPo#0
[07:04] <Chetic> http://imgur.com/rWIsYts,QfQeRPo,DqgX6Jx#0 <-third image has rtty settings
[07:04] <x-f> power supply?
[07:05] <x-f> why is your signal reversed? (LSB)
[07:07] <x-f> turn squelch (SQL) off
[07:11] <x-f> how are you powering your Pi?
[07:11] <x-f> mine doesn't boot with 3v3 :/
[07:12] <Chetic> oh I forgot it was USB and couldn't look it up so I guessed
[07:12] <Chetic> I'm powering it through usb of course?
[07:12] <Chetic> why would you power it with 3v3? :p
[07:13] <x-f> to have smaller power budget
[07:13] <x-f> on those screenprints is it just the radio or do you have GPS and other accessories attached?
[07:15] <x-f> do you have a recording?
[07:15] <Chetic> http://i.imgur.com/FrT3PJu.png
[07:15] <Chetic> still very messy
[07:16] <Chetic> uh, GPS and a couple of i2c devices are attached, why?
[07:17] <x-f> they can be too power-hungry, which make the radio transmission wobbly
[07:19] <x-f> Chetic, upper left corner - from the dropdown list choose USB instead of RTTY
[07:20] <Chetic> ahh that could absolutely be it
[07:20] <Chetic> usb selected
[07:22] <x-f> any improvements?
[07:23] <Chetic> not really
[07:23] <Chetic> how do I fix the gps power hogging? capacitors?
[07:24] <x-f> might help, yes
[07:24] <x-f> is it model A?
[07:24] <Chetic> model B
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[07:27] <x-f> i'm out of ideas
[07:27] <x-f> File -> Audio -> RX capture for a minute
[07:29] <x-f> oh wait
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[07:29] <Chetic> well the power issue sounds very likely to me
[07:29] <x-f> Chetic, 8 bits, not 7 in RTTY settings
[07:29] <Chetic> why?
[07:30] <Chetic> transmission is set to 7bits on the pi..
[07:30] <x-f> ok then
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[07:30] <Chetic> I'll do a capture
[07:30] <x-f> it is usually 8, because with Pi you usually send SSDV, which requires 8 bits, that's why i guessed
[07:31] <Chetic> that's video right?
[07:32] <x-f> images
[07:32] <x-f> http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[07:33] <eroomde> arko: ping
[07:34] <Chetic> wow impressive quality
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[07:35] <Chetic> where can I upload the audio file?
[07:36] <x-f> dropbox?
[07:37] <Chetic> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9yks9erwwgj8qe2/capture.wav
[07:38] <Chetic> unfortunately linux started bugging out on the rpi serial port just before I started capture
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[07:40] <fsphil> you'll want to turn that off
[07:42] <Chetic> http://i.imgur.com/tGu3dpK.png
[07:42] <Chetic> ok now it works, but only barely
[07:43] <fsphil> you can control it in /boot/cmdline.txt
[07:43] <Chetic> I've turned it off, it's something else
[07:43] <fsphil> it's a power problem
[07:43] <Chetic> system calls to the serial port hang and it transmit like a garbage byte every second or so
[07:43] <fsphil> you're using a model B, powered via USB and running extra stuff off the 3.3v rail
[07:44] <fsphil> the Pi's 3.3v regulator is rubbish
[07:44] <Chetic> USB voltage isn't stable?
[07:44] <fsphil> possibly that too
[07:44] <fsphil> but more likely the pi's 3.3v reg is stressed
[07:44] <Chetic> that I can believe
[07:44] <fsphil> brb
[07:44] <Chetic> interesting problem though!
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[08:03] <fsphil> better to use a model A
[08:05] <Chetic> how would that help?
[08:05] <fsphil> it uses less power
[08:05] <fsphil> quite a bit less
[08:09] <Chetic> because of the ethernet controller?
[08:09] <Chetic> but that can be turned off
[08:09] <fsphil> yea, and the usb hub
[08:09] <Chetic> I was gonna do that anyway
[08:09] <Chetic> the power regulators are the same as far as I know
[08:09] <fsphil> they are
[08:10] <Chetic> no reason to get a model a then?
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[08:11] <fsphil> still less power usage
[08:13] <Chetic> can't be much in comparison to turning of the ethernet controller
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[08:16] <fsphil> hlj
[08:16] <fsphil> er
[08:16] <fsphil> you can't turn the ethernet off without also turning of usb
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[08:34] <Chetic> fsphil: not a problem
[08:34] <fsphil> how are you going to program it? :)
[08:36] <Chetic> set up boot to run a program off sd
[08:39] <mfa298> you'll also want to edit /etc/inittab on the pi to remove the *getty that runs on the serial port
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[08:41] <Chetic> ofc
[08:42] <mfa298> if you're using the ntx2(b) radio module you can connect it's power to 5v which would remove some stress from the 3v3 reg. but gps and i2c stuff could be giving more stress
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[08:43] <mfa298> and power from a computer usb port probably isn't enough (500mA max from memory and a plain model B needs something like 400mA before you've added anything else)
[08:44] <Chetic> "but gps and i2c stuff could be giving more stress"
[08:44] <Chetic> what do you mean by that?
[08:46] <mfa298> currently it sounds like you're loading the onboard 3v3 reg with the Pi stuff + gps + i2c + radio module
[08:47] <Chetic> gps and i2c stuff could be giving more stress to what if I move ntx to be powered by 5v?
[08:47] <mfa298> the onboard reg is only rated to have around 60mA spare capacity
[08:48] <mfa298> if you move the ntx2 to 5v power it's a bit less load on the 3v3 reg, but gps + i2c stuff may still be too much for the reg to handle
[08:48] <Chetic> ah yes
[08:49] <Chetic> didn't get that last part till now
[08:49] <Chetic> so having tx at 3v3 is fine for the ntx2 even if it's powered by 5v?
[08:50] <Chetic> woo! my balloon and parachute just arrived!
[08:50] <mfa298> the ntx2 has an internal regulator so it's power input is fairly wide, but the txd input should be within 0-3v
[08:51] <Chetic> excellent
[08:51] <mfa298> the datasheet for the ntx2 is pretty decent to read.
[08:52] <mfa298> If you can it might be worth removing the i2c and gps devices and see if it works better, then add them back in when you need them (one at a time)
[08:52] <mfa298> that way you know if adding a particuar item breaks things
[08:53] <Chetic> yeah I realized far too late that the modular approach is the best
[08:54] <mfa298> also if your current power supply is a pc usb port get a dedicated psu (ideally rated for at least 1A) almost all the issues I've had with the pi are power related.
[08:55] <Chetic> sounds like a good idea
[08:55] <Chetic> I'll do it on my lunch break :)
[08:55] <Chetic> see if it makes a difference
[09:05] <cm13g09> +1 on that mfa298
[09:08] <eroomde> you all had the same length nics until cm13g09 intervened
[09:08] <eroomde> it looked very neat in my window
[09:08] <Chetic> rofl
[09:11] <eroomde> i sent a friend an invitation to curry three weeks ago
[09:11] <eroomde> the next text i sent was 20 mins ago, asking him to pick up some milk on his way into visiting us at work
[09:11] <eroomde> reply was 'got milk and yes to curry'
[09:12] <eroomde> historically misinterpreted texts for the social-life win
[09:12] <fsphil> why waste a text
[09:12] <eroomde> lucky i'm free!
[09:13] <eroomde> i'm going to have an onion bhaji and tandoori chicken with onions and extra onion
[09:13] <eroomde> just for you phil
[09:13] <fsphil> yay </lie>
[09:13] <fsphil> I'll have a nice sensible chicken curry later
[09:13] <fsphil> just to balance it
[09:14] <Upu> wtf its 9am and you're talking about curry
[09:14] <eroomde> i didn't sleep a wink
[09:14] <eroomde> no idea why
[09:14] <eroomde> just lay in bed all night
[09:14] <eroomde> gave up laying in bed at 5am
[09:14] <eroomde> was at work by 5.45
[09:14] <eroomde> no idea what time it is really, bodyclock-wise
[09:15] <eroomde> equally there's never a bad time for a curry
[09:15] <eroomde> estate agents are amazing
[09:15] <eroomde> 'i'm looking in west oxford, WEST, between st giles road and botley. thanks'
[09:15] <eroomde> all the emails i get are for the east outskirts of oxford
[09:16] <mikestir> yes about as useful as recruitment consultants
[09:17] <eroomde> we have one guyt at work who always invites the recruiters over
[09:17] <eroomde> i can never ever foresee a circumstance where we need one
[09:17] <eroomde> ever
[09:17] <eroomde> yet he seems to think it might be useful one day
[09:18] <eroomde> like, i have a list of about 5 people as a kind of subs bench in my head as to who i'd want to hire if a position came open
[09:19] <eroomde> i can't really imagine having a really technical opening and just farming out the person-hunting process to someone who probably doesn't really understand half the words in the job description
[09:20] <fsphil> they did that here a few times
[09:20] <eroomde> i knew someone who was an expert in fluid-structure interaction simulation
[09:20] <fsphil> the person didn't last long
[09:20] <eroomde> eg modelling how fluids flow over flexible things like parachutes
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[09:21] <eroomde> the recruiter who called him for a role was convinved that FSI was not the same thing as CFD, and it was CFD role, so he wouldn't be eligable
[09:21] <eroomde> cfd being computational fluid dynamics
[09:21] <eroomde> all very silly
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[09:24] <mikestir> they clearly just do a keyword search
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[09:37] <nats`> hi
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[09:37] <fsphil> morning nats`
[09:39] <nats`> mornin fsphil :)
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[09:57] <eroomde> google has an intelligent etymology thing now
[09:57] <eroomde> it draws you a little hisotrical graph of the word
[09:57] <eroomde> if you type, say, 'condition etymology'
[09:58] <eroomde> it'll give you the roots of the word 'condition'
[09:58] <eroomde> which is nice
[09:58] <nats`> or you type Atari Breakout and you loose 2 hours like me
[09:59] <eroomde> i'm learning lots
[09:59] <nats`> it doesn't work in french for now
[10:00] <eroomde> i would have guessed 'ferry' would be from the latin 'ferre; - to bring/carry
[10:00] <eroomde> but google says different
[10:00] <eroomde> hmm i'm not sure i beleive google in this instance
[10:00] <Hix> that's pretty neat Ed
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[10:01] <eroomde> old english 'ferian' is to bring/carry
[10:01] <eroomde> i'm sure this must come from the latin
[10:03] <Hix> they [and a lot of others] seem to believe it comes from Ferja - which I can see. We do have a lot of Norse words.
[10:03] <Hix> i.e tomorrow's name
[10:03] <eroomde> yeah
[10:03] <eroomde> but it's surely not coincidence that both norse and latin have the 'fer' root to mean the same thing
[10:04] <eroomde> there must be some pre-all-that link
[10:04] <fsphil> google: 1990s: from Google, the proprietary name of the search engine.
[10:06] <Hix> farjan seems to be the last root I can dig up ;p gothic in origin
[10:10] <eroomde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language
[10:12] <eroomde> From "A dictionary of selected synonyms in the principal indo-european languages" :
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[10:13] <eroomde> Postby tdominus » Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:11 pm
[10:13] <eroomde> I'll elaborate on the IE origins of phero.
[10:13] <eroomde> The (reconstructed) indo-european is *bher-. The * in linguistics denotes that the form is reconstructed and hasn't actually been attested in literature.
[10:13] <eroomde> From "A dictionary of selected synonyms in the principal indo-european languages" :
[10:13] <eroomde> Indo-european *bher- ...
[10:13] <eroomde> Grk phero, modern greek pherno, irish biru, berim, gothic bairan, Old English beran, etc., once general germanic for carry', now in part restricted (Du. baren, NHG gebaren 'bear' children, NE bear in this sense, also = 'endure', and in many phrases, as bear in mind, but no longer generic 'carry' in common speech); Sanskrit bhr.-, Avestan bie 'bring'; Toch. par- 'carry,bring'; but Church Slavic bera, birati 'bring together, collect'.
[10:13] <eroomde> sorry for big paste
[10:13] <eroomde> but it looks like they all go back to proto-indo-european
[10:14] <eroomde> which can now be my random learn-something-new-thing-of-the-day
[10:15] <adamgreig> fun to imagine some of our words carrying on from so far back
[10:15] <adamgreig> weren't many people around back then
[10:16] <eroomde> yeah
[10:17] <eroomde> always thought linguistics would be interesting
[10:17] <eroomde> never ever looked at it though
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[10:28] <Hix> language is great
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[10:33] <fsphil> I wish it was as easy as computer languages
[10:39] <Hix> I'm the other way around :/
[10:42] <cm13g09> fsphil: you're in IT, aren't you?
[10:42] <fsphil> yea
[10:42] <cm13g09> got any suggestions on VPS providers?
[10:44] <cm13g09> (we're having a bit of a "let's make things sensible" process here.... and reducing the quantity and/or price of VPSes would nice
[10:45] <adamgreig> linode are great
[10:45] <Darkside> +1 on linode
[10:45] <adamgreig> been with them for years and years
[10:45] <craag> +1 for linode
[10:46] <adamgreig> they often add more RAM and disk and upgrade CPUs and everything on a regular basis, prices are good, support is great, network is good, haven't had issues with noisy neighbours or anything
[10:46] <cm13g09> lol - missed them out of my equation - not sure how....
[10:46] <adamgreig> run your own kernel, out of band console, they do a backup and monitoring service
[10:46] <cm13g09> nice
[10:46] <cm13g09> and a UK DC
[10:46] <adamgreig> london datacentre, yea
[10:46] <craag> native v6..
[10:47] <cm13g09> lol - we don't do IPv6
[10:47] <cm13g09> (we probably should!)
[10:47] <adamgreig> you can do quite easily with a linode :P
[10:47] <cm13g09> yeah
[10:47] <jonsowman> +1 linode etc
[10:48] <adamgreig> jonsowman: about to go demonstrate 3F4 lab ;D
[10:48] <adamgreig> confused as to why my version of the report is dated jan 16 2013
[10:49] <jonsowman> nice
[10:49] <jonsowman> huh
[10:49] <jonsowman> :\
[10:49] <adamgreig> ah. the original tex is 2/3/12, must have regenerated it sometime
[10:49] <jonsowman> mine's 01/03/12
[10:49] <adamgreig> lol yours is of course a day earlier :P
[10:49] <jonsowman> makes sense
[10:49] <jonsowman> haha
[10:50] <adamgreig> bbl then ;o
[10:50] <jonsowman> enjoy!
[10:53] <cm13g09> thanks people for the suggestions
[10:53] <cm13g09> (or is that suggestion)
[10:53] <jonsowman> :D
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[11:00] <nats`> fuck an other project idea -_-
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[11:00] <nats`> I need to stop this little brain
[11:01] <eroomde> with wine
[11:02] <eroomde> i just rediscovered an album i haven't listened to for about 10 years. it's a happy thing
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[11:28] <eroomde> Hix: so other words we get from the ferre (or pre) root are
[11:28] <eroomde> refer
[11:28] <eroomde> and relate
[11:28] <eroomde> because the verb is: fero, ferre, tuli, latum
[11:29] <eroomde> i carry, to carry, i carried, having been carried
[11:30] <eroomde> so refer comes from the infinitive bit and relate comes from the past particple bit
[11:30] <eroomde> transfer, translate likewise
[11:31] <eroomde> and they think it's so irregular because of PIE
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[11:33] <eroomde> apparently latum was original tlatum, from the same stem as tuli, but the greeks got rid of complicated double-consonnant things like that
[11:33] <eroomde> prefering just latum
[11:33] <eroomde> or something
[11:35] <eroomde> this is all very interesting
[11:37] <Hix> I take it you are very busy in the office today :)
[11:37] <SpeedEvil> He's researching future launcher names.
[11:38] <Hix> heh
[11:38] <eroomde> today is a write-off
[11:39] <Hix> sound more like a read-off
[11:39] <Hix> *sounds
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[11:39] <eroomde> i think it'll be a bog-off home thing soon
[11:40] <eroomde> i'm really flagging
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[11:41] <Hix> I've got bugger all to do. So, am going through loops and functions to make sure that it stays in my brain for once. Then it's back to recursion. If there was a cloud based version of local for ipynb then it would be great, keep forgetting to copy across to dropbox in the eves
[11:42] <Hix> does ipnb always use port 8889?
[11:44] <eroomde> https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/425072404985954304
[11:44] <eroomde> i think it uses different ports as you can have multiple sessions open at once
[11:45] <mfa298> cm13g09: reading back a bit linode seem to have had a good rep for a large number of years (in vps terms at least), I've also been happy with ProVPS (Possibly a tad more expensive but it's been rock solid - I think I've raised two tickets in the 4+ years I've been using them (one of which was trying to get help as I had issues setting up a gre tunnel to another system)
[11:46] <cm13g09> cheers mfa298
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[11:49] <mfa298> if you want stability stay away from DamnVPS/ThrustVPS. And from reading a few forums/blogs anything started up by the same guy (Rus Forster or something like that). They might be cheap but stability can be pretty poor and support is attrocious (aparently a running a DNS server means your getting DDOSed)
[11:50] <Hix> seems to start at 8888 and then use 8889 if another session opened. So port forward 8888-8890 :) see if it works
[11:51] <cm13g09> mfa298: it's OK
[11:51] <cm13g09> they weren't on my radar
[11:52] <craag> mfa298: I used damnvps/thrustvps for a couple of years.. hours of unexplained downtime. Also powered off my vps with no notification a couple of times as well due to 'suspicious traffic' which after about a month trying to squeeze blood from a stone turned out to be a UDP mosh session..
[11:54] <mfa298> I've still got a couple of vpss with them as their cheap although they're not doing anything that important.
[11:55] <Miek> problem is that it's way too easy for pretty much anyone to rent a dedi and start selling VPSes these days
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[12:17] <cm13g09> craag: ping
[12:17] <cm13g09> (please mind the latency)
[12:19] <craag> cm13g09:
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[12:33] <SpeedEvil> For a limited thingy - amazon offers a free usage tier on their AWS
[12:34] <SpeedEvil> For a year
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[12:45] <Herman-PB0AHX> does anyone know when there is ahab going to fly I'm bored
[12:47] <SpeedEvil> Yarrrr. Only the whales know.
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> There is one on the 31st of the month .......
[12:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> in Australia ;-)
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[12:57] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
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[12:58] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[12:59] <Herman-PB0AHX> then i moved to australia hihihi fun
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[13:21] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: hey
[13:21] <LeoBodnar> afternoon *
[13:22] <nats`> hi LeoBodnar :)
[13:31] <eroomde> hi
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[13:52] <fsphil> love the dramatic mountains in this image: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Curiosity_on_Mars.jpg
[13:53] <eroomde> yeah pretty awesome
[13:53] <eroomde> quite alien
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[14:03] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: yo
[14:03] <Laurenceb> how are the GPS antics?
[14:04] <Laurenceb> fsphil: theres no radioactive warning on the RTG
[14:04] <Laurenceb> what about martian health and safety?
[14:04] <fsphil> oh no someone might touch it!
[14:04] <Darkside> dr manhattan
[14:05] <fsphil> don't think it would bother him much
[14:05] <gonzo_> they could drop it on their foot
[14:05] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: have you tried sampling from your PCB?
[14:05] <Laurenceb> no
[14:05] <gonzo_> have you been injured in a nuclear inccident, that wasn't your fault.....
[14:05] <Laurenceb> i've been way too busy :-/
[14:06] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: do you have some raw data?
[14:06] <LeoBodnar> Ah, my sampled signal is way too noisy
[14:06] <LeoBodnar> The first strange thing is that it is offset
[14:07] <eroomde> really?
[14:07] <LeoBodnar> imbalance between SIGN values is like 20%
[14:07] <eroomde> have you compared it to the sample data i sent you?
[14:08] <LeoBodnar> I have two boards made up and both have offset around 15-20%
[14:08] <Laurenceb> thats not too bad
[14:08] <Laurenceb> 20% shows you have a little LO leakage
[14:08] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: your values are balanced to better than 0.1%
[14:08] <Laurenceb> but its hardly the end of the world
[14:09] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: its partly due to the SiGe front end
[14:09] <LeoBodnar> so mixer ends up with DC
[14:09] <Laurenceb> SiGe sampler has some offset (but not that bad)
[14:09] <Laurenceb> have you found any sats with it?
[14:10] <LeoBodnar> yeah but I had to use 4msec integration
[14:10] <Laurenceb> how are you processing the data? do you have matlab?
[14:10] <Lunar_LanderU> fsphil, the photo from Curiosity is awesome
[14:10] <Laurenceb> that doesnt sound right
[14:10] <LeoBodnar> some C jobbie
[14:10] <Laurenceb> ok
[14:10] <Laurenceb> hmm
[14:10] <Laurenceb> you do have teeny antenni and no SAW filter
[14:10] <Laurenceb> i can find ~6 or more sats with 1ms and patch
[14:10] <LeoBodnar> I have not used any SAW filters at the input and post-LNA
[14:11] <Laurenceb> yeah i know
[14:11] <Laurenceb> how was the antenni positioned for the data recording?
[14:11] <LeoBodnar> from what sampler?
[14:11] <Laurenceb> SiGe sampler
[14:11] <LeoBodnar> I had a chip and 1/4wave
[14:13] <LeoBodnar> When I override the gain I get perfect 50% balance
[14:13] <Laurenceb> where was the ant, and what angle?
[14:13] <Laurenceb> wut
[14:13] <Laurenceb> thats very weird
[14:13] <LeoBodnar> vertical stuck outside
[14:13] <Laurenceb> ok, sounds sane
[14:13] <Laurenceb> im confused
[14:14] <Laurenceb> what do you mean why "override the gain"?
[14:14] <LeoBodnar> well, Sige do not specify what voltage causes gain to increase
[14:14] <eroomde> i don't know about the sige specifically but usually these things have an AGC
[14:14] <LeoBodnar> you can disable AGC and feed gain control voltage into VAGC pin
[14:14] <eroomde> because who the hell knows what the pcb designer has put infront
[14:15] <eroomde> oh
[14:15] <eroomde> i let the max take-care of that on mine
[14:15] <LeoBodnar> I did not bother disabling AGC just fed low impedance voltage into VAGC
[14:15] <LeoBodnar> just playing around you know
[14:16] <Laurenceb> this is weird
[14:16] <Laurenceb> i can't see how AGC would effect the DC offset
[14:16] <Laurenceb> but i see some DC offset on SiGe sampler
[14:16] <eroomde> can you see that you have something sattelitey there?
[14:16] <Laurenceb> eroomde: he needs 4ms integration
[14:16] <eroomde> eg do you have a siggen? and if so can you generate some L1 carrier and put it in front?
[14:16] <LeoBodnar> highly amplified noise will mask the offset
[14:16] <Laurenceb> seems a bit high, thats all
[14:16] <Laurenceb> but it def works
[14:17] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: I would have expected 2ms tops to work
[14:17] <LeoBodnar> I have generated 1MHz harmonics and I could see them on the FT spectrum
[14:17] <LeoBodnar> 3-4 fit inside IF filter BW
[14:17] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: so if it has internal AGC, what is the VAGC driven by?
[14:18] <Laurenceb> im wondering if there is noise on VAGC
[14:18] <Laurenceb> that might explain the DC offset and excessive noise symptoms
[14:18] <LeoBodnar> It's AGC filtered control voltage
[14:18] <eroomde> fine
[14:18] <eroomde> i had one bug when i put the pll tuning caps on the wrong way round
[14:18] <Laurenceb> so do you see the same noise performance with AGC on and off?
[14:18] <eroomde> difficult to tell the wrong noise from the right noise, when it's just spitting out noise
[14:19] <LeoBodnar> eroomde: it's just RC network
[14:20] <eroomde> indeed, i just happened to solder two caps on the wrong way
[14:20] <LeoBodnar> so it's sort of works but not stellar performance
[14:21] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:21] <LeoBodnar> and with longer integration the search becomes massively longer
[14:21] <Laurenceb> but on one level its impressive for such a barebones design
[14:21] <LeoBodnar> definitely
[14:21] <Laurenceb> pity that it needs longer integration
[14:21] <Laurenceb> that seems a little odd
[14:21] <LeoBodnar> good antenna will fix a lot of problems
[14:21] <eroomde> and maybe a filter
[14:22] <Laurenceb> i was half expecting it just to oscillate or some failure like that :P
[14:22] <LeoBodnar> lol
[14:22] <LeoBodnar> thanks
[14:22] <Laurenceb> heh
[14:22] <LeoBodnar> I can dangle it off the USB cord it then oscillates
[14:22] <Laurenceb> i think something might not quite be right with it
[14:22] <Laurenceb> interesting
[14:22] <Laurenceb> with the DC offset stuff
[14:23] <Laurenceb> how are you doing the search in c?
[14:23] <Laurenceb> libfftw?
[14:23] <LeoBodnar> yeah, it's basically ref design from 4110 DS so offset is strange
[14:23] <LeoBodnar> serial search so far
[14:24] <Laurenceb> ok, id try libfftw
[14:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.fftw.org/install/mac.html
[14:24] <LeoBodnar> same code finds sats on Ed's and the GPS book data with no problem
[14:24] <Laurenceb> neat
[14:25] <eroomde> what xtal are you using?
[14:25] <LeoBodnar> 0.5ppm TCXO
[14:25] <eroomde> hmm
[14:25] <LeoBodnar> 16.368MHz
[14:25] <eroomde> problem not there then
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> Checked the freq
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> checked that samples are not lost
[14:26] <eroomde> endianness?
[14:26] <LeoBodnar> cross-checked collected data and scope traces on SIGN and CLOCK
[14:27] <eroomde> poobum
[14:27] <LeoBodnar> yeah, endianness was my 1st suspicion
[14:27] <LeoBodnar> so it is somewhere in the RF stage
[14:27] <Laurenceb> im suspecting noise feeding aroudn there, yeah
[14:27] <Laurenceb> probably getting into the LNA
[14:27] <SpeedEvil> Oh!
[14:27] <LeoBodnar> indeed
[14:28] <LeoBodnar> Not sure how much USB adds
[14:28] <Laurenceb> SSTL suffer from these issues
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/gps-toolbox/exist.htm I found yesterday
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> Assorded GPS code - I'm not sure how useful
[14:28] <Laurenceb> http://www.sstl.co.uk/Products/Subsystems/Navigation/SGR-05P-Space-GPS-Receiver
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> http://www.mathworks.co.uk/matlabcentral/fileexchange/29272-skipping-stone-an-interplanetary-space-mission-design-tool
[14:28] <Laurenceb> that thing barely works
[14:28] <SpeedEvil> Matlab simulator
[14:28] <Laurenceb> due to LNA noise
[14:29] <SpeedEvil> ^orbital planning
[14:29] <Laurenceb> interesting stuff
[14:29] <Laurenceb> a bit beyond our present capabilities :P
[14:30] <LeoBodnar> I have been able to follow bit transitions in sample data from GPS book by correlating for +PRN/-PRN 2msec block each 20msec
[14:30] <Laurenceb> still, even with 4ms integration you should find sats in ~15ms
[14:30] <Laurenceb> total time on stm32
[14:30] <Laurenceb> groovy
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> so no need for all these tracking loops
[14:31] Action: Laurenceb is lazy and just ported Kai Borre code to Octave
[14:31] <LeoBodnar> just correlate for PRN inversion
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[14:38] <LeoBodnar> with exhaustive search on PIC24 I estimate it to take 30 sec per sat. Suddenly CortexM3 makes sense
[14:39] <Laurenceb> FFT search would only be a few times slower than on ARM
[14:41] <LeoBodnar> So anyway I was wondering if anybody has done their own design with SE41** to compare the results
[14:41] <LeoBodnar> ballpark performance on samples level
[14:41] <LeoBodnar> Ed uses MAX ones I think
[14:42] <Laurenceb> yeah i should populate my board
[14:42] <Laurenceb> need to work on broken by design I2C kit tho :-/
[14:42] <LeoBodnar> just to grab few msec of data
[14:42] <Laurenceb> trying to run 400kHz i2c down 4m of cable
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> How much does 'proper' - say 8 bit at over nyquist over the bandwidth - sampling buy you?
[14:43] <SpeedEvil> vs these one bit things
[14:44] <SpeedEvil> (clearly it's lots more computationally expensive)
[14:45] <LeoBodnar> my GPS book has 4 bit sampled data and after reducing it to 1 bit I have found to my surprise no significant reduction in quality
[14:45] <LeoBodnar> of acquisition
[14:46] <Laurenceb> yeah
[14:46] <Laurenceb> as the signal is below the noise
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> I guess it's just jam resistance perhaps
[14:50] <Laurenceb> yes
[14:50] <Laurenceb> mil stuff uses 8bit
[14:50] <LeoBodnar> If anybody is interested in sampled data I can upload it somewhere.
[14:51] <LeoBodnar> *from the book
[14:53] <Laurenceb> which book?
[14:53] <Laurenceb> the Kai Borre book?
[14:55] <LeoBodnar> yep
[14:55] <Laurenceb> ah - i have it already thanks
[14:56] <LeoBodnar> cool
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> It's kind of insane that you can buy off-the-shelf ADCs that will do 1.5GHz baseband at 12 bits.
[14:56] <SpeedEvil> I mean - sure - they are $ow.
[14:57] <LeoBodnar> here is the sweep of 4msec integration data over chip offsets with fixed/best Doppler http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/PRN13.png
[14:57] <SpeedEvil> Lovely lovely spikes!
[14:57] <LeoBodnar> with a chip antenna as pictured http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/GPSsampler.jpg
[14:57] <LeoBodnar> So it is not broken
[15:00] <Laurenceb> looks good
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:00] <LeoBodnar> On good data the spikes are usually x10-20 the noise floor
[15:00] <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
[15:01] <LeoBodnar> Well on Ed's and Kai's data
[15:01] <SpeedEvil> But 'sort of works' is a whole heap up from 'is this thing on'
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[15:01] <LeoBodnar> lol
[15:02] Action: Laurenceb is back to fighting I2C
[15:03] <Laurenceb> the first data from LSM330DL FIFO is a fixed value
[15:03] <Laurenceb> seems to be device orientation at power up
[15:03] <LeoBodnar> Use lower value pullups
[15:03] <LeoBodnar> for 4m bus
[15:03] <Laurenceb> yeah i've got the bus to behave now, just
[15:03] <Laurenceb> but the data isnt sane
[15:04] <LeoBodnar> ok, that's in I2C spec
[15:04] <Laurenceb> heh
[15:04] <Laurenceb> mainly as ST mems kit is full of silicon bugs
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: Read all the errata. And then more importantly, tell the chip loudly that you've read all the errata and it should behave.
[15:06] <LeoBodnar> then find some of your own
[15:06] <SpeedEvil> It does work OK on a short cable, I gather?
[15:07] <Laurenceb> i dont know
[15:07] <Laurenceb> i never tested fully
[15:12] <Laurenceb> http://datasheet.octopart.com/LSM330DLTR-STMicroelectronics-datasheet-10404304.pdf
[15:12] <Laurenceb> datasheet is a disaster zone
[15:12] <Laurenceb> page 34, what does FTH4:0 even do?!
[15:12] <Laurenceb> im guessing FIFO size
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[15:15] <LeoBodnar> It's FIFO threshold probably
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[15:17] <Laurenceb> the FIFO goes mad if unless you reset it after reading
[15:17] <Laurenceb> and you need to dischard andthing that came in as you were reading
[15:18] <Laurenceb> and the bytes get flipped
[15:18] <Laurenceb> its very annoying
[15:18] <Laurenceb> and i see to have found yet another bug now
[15:18] <Laurenceb> odd that the first samples read are the ones that stick
[15:19] <Laurenceb> i could see the last ones sticking if the sample rate drifted, something that may be happening
[15:19] <cm13g09> Laurenceb: I'm fighting XML.... it's winning....
[15:20] <jonsowman> "XML is like violence - if it doesnt solve your problems, you are not using enough of it."
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[15:21] <cm13g09> jonsowman: lol
[15:21] <fsphil> XMLML
[15:22] <SpeedEvil> jonsowman: I have somewhere a 200 gig XML file.
[15:23] <jonsowman> :)
[15:23] <Laurenceb> back to galaxy S2 drivers for me
[15:24] <mattbrejza> http://24.media.tumblr.com/142d1bcde2bf5b55fbe456ff4cc66a25/tumblr_mjcjmh4yoX1rmur82o1_500.gif
[15:24] <mattbrejza> relevent gif
[15:24] <Laurenceb> the only code i can find using FIFO on LSM330DL
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[15:32] <Laurenceb> lol i foudn the issue
[15:33] <Laurenceb> ST FIFO buffer can loop indefinitely
[15:33] <Laurenceb> if you read too fast you loop around and start reading old data
[15:33] <LeoBodnar> oh, that's really neat
[15:33] <LeoBodnar> is it a slave device?
[15:34] <LeoBodnar> of course it is
[15:34] <LeoBodnar> it's sensor isn't it?
[15:35] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:36] <Laurenceb> seems the RC time constant for its sampling is all over the place
[15:36] <Laurenceb> 1.344Ksps is sometimes <1.2Ksps
[15:36] <Laurenceb> so my FIFO reads too much and loops
[15:36] <Laurenceb> s/FIFO/FIFO read code
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[15:44] <LeoBodnar> is it designed for back-to-back smpling?
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[15:46] <Laurenceb> i dont know
[15:46] <Laurenceb> thats the main issue
[15:46] <Laurenceb> all i have is the datasheet
[15:46] <Laurenceb> dont know wtf im doing
[15:47] <Laurenceb> i just realised that my theory about FIFO loop around doesnt explain it
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[15:47] <Laurenceb> as i reset the FIFO, following the galaxy s2 driver code
[15:48] <Laurenceb> https://github.com/Laurenceb/STM32InertialMonitor/blob/master/Sensors/amb_sensors.h#L39
[15:48] <Laurenceb> so what i do is write 0x04 followed by 0x44 to 0x2E
[15:48] <Laurenceb> to toggle the FIFO off/on in an attempt to "unbug" it
[15:49] <Laurenceb> thats to fix the misaligned bytes issue that afflicts it
[15:49] <Laurenceb> for some reason the first samples i read after doing this are the first samples recorded by the device after power up/config
[15:49] <Laurenceb> i.e. they are fixed
[15:50] <mattbrejza> you would have thought ti would provide stm32 sample drivers for it
[15:50] <mattbrejza> *st
[15:53] <Laurenceb> how way in 1000years
[15:53] <Laurenceb> ill see if theres anyone i can hunt out at samsung
[15:53] <mattbrejza> (ti provide msp430 drivers for their stuff :P )
[15:54] <mattbrejza> however not in the mode i wanted to use something...
[16:03] <eroomde> i want all electronics to be analogue again
[16:03] <eroomde> and painting is nice
[16:03] <eroomde> and doing pcbs by drawing a harpie onto acetate. that'd be cool
[16:03] <eroomde> also nice suits
[16:04] <eroomde> this is a nice response to a pull request:
[16:04] <eroomde> https://github.com/fre5h/DoctrineEnumBundle/pull/12#issuecomment-33023169
[16:06] <jonsowman> excellent
[16:06] <mfa298> there's a couple of good followup comments as well
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[16:14] <adamgreig> anyone else doing the https://microcorruption.com thing?
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[16:31] <Chetic> styrofoam => esd protection
[16:31] <Chetic> I can feel the volts
[16:35] <eroomde> i find rubbing it first gives a better path to earth
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[17:00] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2014/01/21/apex-electronics-your-souce-for-oscilloscopes-and-drop-tanks/
[17:00] <Laurenceb> that looks like my kind of place
[17:00] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2014/01/21/apex-electronics-your-souce-for-oscilloscopes-and-drop-tanks/
[17:00] <Laurenceb> oops
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[17:49] <Willdude123> Well this is fun
[17:49] <Willdude123> Decoding weather fax
[17:50] <Willdude123> The £3 tablet app does a better job of it than fldigi?
[17:50] <Willdude123> *.
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[18:15] <fsphil> you paid for software?
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[18:22] <arko> MIND BLOWN
[18:27] <fsphil> I feel like doing something electronicy but my desk is full of crap
[18:27] <fsphil> Project Put Up Shelves has stalled
[18:29] <mfa298> your obviously just not working creativly enough.
[18:30] <gonzo__> put bin at end of desk, place forearm across other end of desk, slide firmly along
[18:30] <fsphil> mmm
[18:31] <fsphil> though I'd need to move the ft857 first
[18:31] <gonzo__> hehe, could be a good move
[18:32] <fsphil> there's a big satellite receiver too
[18:32] <mfa298> of failing bin, get a set of storage boxes (assuming your following standard engineering principles of never throwing stuff out in case it's useful)
[18:32] <fsphil> could do with something smaller
[18:32] <fsphil> mfa298: that's part of the problem
[18:32] <fsphil> my wardrobe is full of storage bins
[18:33] <fsphil> most of it I may never use
[18:33] <fsphil> but you never know!
[18:33] <mfa298> I did go through some of my boxes of useful things a year or so ago. Disposed of a load of of Floppy drive and IDE cables!
[18:33] <cm13g09> mfa298: snap
[18:33] <fsphil> oooh
[18:33] <mfa298> Kept a couple of decent ones just in case.
[18:33] <fsphil> yes
[18:34] <fsphil> I've I full drawer of IDE and floppy cables
[18:34] <cm13g09> fsphil: Chuck 'em
[18:34] <fsphil> and possibly even a scsi cable
[18:34] <cm13g09> they only EVER have a use if you're doing RasPi dev stuff
[18:34] <cm13g09> and don't have the right cable ;)
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[19:00] <fsphil> cool, water plumes on Ceres: http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/feature_stories/HerschelTelescope_DetectsWater_Ceres.asp
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[19:10] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ucl.ac.uk/maps-faculty/maps-news-publication/maps1405
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> also cool
[19:10] <SpeedEvil> UCL students spot a supernovae
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[19:22] <DL7AD> evening
[19:24] <SpeedEvil> EVENING.
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[19:39] <Lunar_Lander> hi
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[19:46] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb yo
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[20:02] Nick change: KingJ_ -> KingJ
[20:03] <pascend> Hello, I was wondering if anyone could help us with some code? Sending pressure over our transmitter is giving us issues however it is printing to our data logger is fine. I'll stick the code up if anyone can help. Thanks!
[20:05] <craag> Hi pascend
[20:05] <craag> Describe your issues..
[20:07] <pascend> Hi, basically we are using sprintf to send + our
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[20:08] <pascend> ..standby..
[20:08] <Lunar_Lander> evening craag
[20:09] <craag> Good evening Lunar_Lander
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[20:14] <pascend> We think that the problem is due to a mis match of datatypes. When we send the string to our transmitter using sprintf we are using the %i or%d notations to represent the values, however the pressure is calculated and returned as a float meaning that we get a spurious result. However when we print directly to our datalogger using println we get a correct result for pressure
[20:14] <DL7AD> hi Lunar_Lander SpeedEvil
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[20:15] <craag> pascend: Right, is this on an arduino/avr?
[20:15] <jack9515> Hey, my school wants to send up a weather balloon but we cannot work out how to track it, can anyone suggest the best way for us?
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> jack9515: String.
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> More seriously.
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> Where are you.
[20:16] <jack9515> UK
[20:16] <SpeedEvil> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[20:16] <craag> You've come to the right place then :)
[20:16] <craag> Take a look at the wiki link above
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> http://spacenear.us/tracker/
[20:17] <craag> And then come back with questions :)
[20:17] <jack9515> I didn't really get that.... I've read it
[20:17] <pascend> Arduino
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> http://predict.habhub.org/
[20:17] <craag> pascend: Ok, the sprintf function in arduino doesn't handle floats well.
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> The above tools will let you launch a balloon to 40km, and predict where it will come down within 15-20km
[20:17] <craag> pascend: What I do is to multiply the value by 10/100 so it becomes an integer, and transmit that.
[20:17] <SpeedEvil> (the prediction is only valid just before launch)
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> jack9515: what's your problem with the above pages?
[20:18] <SpeedEvil> jack9515: might be a good idea to state what level you're at too - primary 3, or about to leave.
[20:19] <jack9515> GCSE - College level
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> jack9515: what is the point you get stuck at
[20:20] <jack9515> I understand those pages for receiving but not transmitting.
[20:20] <craag> jack9515: Ok, so in the UK we use a radio transmitter module to send down the 1s and 0s of the binary data.
[20:21] <craag> We then use radio receivers to convert that into audio tones, and a program on a computer (dlfldigi) that decodes the audio back into the binary data
[20:21] <pascend> ah okay, will look into that thanks!
[20:21] <jack9515> And is that just an ordinary output from any GPS
[20:21] <SpeedEvil> jack9515: lightly processed by a microcontroller typically
[20:21] <craag> jack9515: There's a packet format
[20:22] <craag> eg: $$CRAAG,343,51.546,-1.2945,30*ABCD
[20:22] <jack9515> How?
[20:22] <craag> So $$ is the start of the string
[20:22] <jeffewil> Hi does anyone (other than jcoxon who isn't here) know the details of compiling a version of dlfldigi on mac 10.6.8?
[20:22] <craag> Then you've got data in it (the gps co-ordinates, temperature, etc)
[20:23] <craag> And the *ABCD on the end is a checksum that allows detection of errors
[20:23] <jack9515> Ok, I think I've got an idea of the components but I have no clue how to connect them up
[20:23] <SpeedEvil> Duct tape, hotmelt.
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> Oh, solder too may be used.
[20:24] <craag> jack9515: More info on the packet format: http://ukhas.org.uk/communication:protocol
[20:24] <SpeedEvil> But mostly tape and hotmelt.
[20:24] <LeoBodnar> hey Laurenceb
[20:25] <craag> jack9515: This describes how to get the NTX2B transmitter hooked up to an arduino and transmitting data
[20:25] <craag> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:linkingarduinotontx2?s[]=ntx2
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[20:25] <jack9515> Oh thats perfect, thanks!
[20:26] <craag> There's lots on the wiki, it just can be quite hard to find!
[20:26] <SpeedEvil> jack9515: http://ukhas.org.uk/frontpage:projects - clicking through some of the projects will also get you pictures and explanations of how others have done it
[20:26] <jack9515> Oh thanks, someone should create a pagebringing together all this stuff!
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[20:27] <craag> jack9515: It's a wiki, sign up for an account and do it :)
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> I offer a reward of one third of a tesco chicken pie.
[20:27] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb ping
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> *
[20:27] <jack9515> Yeah but I obviously am not very good at finding it! Anyway thanks for the help
[20:27] <SpeedEvil> *(Valid for 20 minutes, after which I'll eat it)
[20:28] <jack9515> :)
[20:28] <LeoBodnar> How do you divide pie in three?
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[20:29] <jeffewil> Hi jcoxon - I was hping you'd join!
[20:33] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: With a butter knife.
[20:33] <jcoxon> jeffewil, how goes it?
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[20:35] <jeffewil> ok - goat as far through your instructions as $ ./configure --disable-flarq - then it threw up an error about libpng see.... http://pastebin.com/DprG2GQt
[20:36] <jcoxon> so you know what you did for libcurl
[20:36] <jcoxon> cp /usr/local/Cellar/curl/7.28.1/lib/pkgconfig/libcurl.pc /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/
[20:36] <jcoxon> you need to do the same for libpng
[20:36] <jcoxon> just eating, bbl
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[20:37] <jeffewil> No rush..... (watching tv myself) tried that..... Will-Laptops-MacBook:dl-fldigi maclaptop$ cp /usr/local/Cellar/curl/7.28.1/lib/pkgconfig/libpng.pc /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/ cp: /usr/local/Cellar/curl/7.28.1/lib/pkgconfig/libpng.pc: No such file or directory Will-Laptops-MacBook:dl-fldigi maclaptop$
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[20:38] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[20:38] <LeoBodnar> jeffewil: I had the same error . I think James put a note about this on wiki page
[20:39] <jeffewil> yeah - I think that's what he was refering too above and it didn't work....
[20:39] <jeffewil> :-(
[20:40] <LeoBodnar> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi:build-osx
[20:40] <LeoBodnar> oh
[20:40] <jeffewil> hmmmm....
[20:41] <LeoBodnar> the pain: http://habhub.org/zeusbot/logs_highlighted/highaltitude.log.20131127.html
[20:42] <LeoBodnar> [19:36] <LeoBodnar> woohooo! cp libpng.pc /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/
[20:44] <jeffewil> so the command would not be: cp /usr/local/Cellar/curl/7.28.1/lib/pkgconfig/libpng.pc /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/ just cp libpng.pc /usr/local/lib/pkgconfig/
[20:45] <jeffewil> ?
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> I assumed you have cd to a directory with libpng.pc
[20:45] <LeoBodnar> otherwise use full path
[20:46] <pascend_> Hi again chaps, another question for you! On dl-fldigi we cant figure out how to tune the two lines to match up with the waterfalls? I know that 'the two lines' isn't what they are called and that is probably half the problem!
[20:46] <adamgreig> click the waterfall
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[20:46] <LeoBodnar> jeffewil: find libpng.pc on your mac first
[20:47] <adamgreig> has anyone here used an AVR to make a custom USB device?
[20:47] <LeoBodnar> "custom" as in... ?
[20:48] <adamgreig> not CDC or MIDI or HID
[20:48] <adamgreig> i.e. I anticipate mucking with libusb computer-side
[20:48] <pascend_> yeah, we can move the 'two lines' however we cannot change the width between them. That's the issue
[20:48] <adamgreig> pascend_: change the rtty spacing in the rtty modem setting (click the RTTY word on the bottom left)
[20:48] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: I just want framed multi byte data transfer
[20:48] <jeffewil> hmmm... libpng.pc isn't there. I have libpng.3.gz ? reckon it will be in there?
[20:48] <LeoBodnar> It's easy
[20:49] <LeoBodnar> Have you written your own driver or using lib-usb?
[20:49] <LeoBodnar> or WinUSB
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[20:49] <adamgreig> want to use libusb
[20:50] <adamgreig> and from linux, computer side
[20:50] <pascend_> We have receive filter bandwidth? this doesnt seem to change the width between the lines
[20:50] <adamgreig> pascend_: not that. you want the spacing
[20:50] <LeoBodnar> Take HID, and convert it to bulk transfer thing
[20:51] <LeoBodnar> you can leave descriptors etc in place
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[20:51] <LeoBodnar> just convert endpoints from interrupt to bulk transfer
[20:51] <craag> pascend_: 'Custom Width' top-left
[20:52] <pascend_> Great thanks, that's sorted it.
[20:52] <craag> :)
[20:54] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: huh, okay. and just libusb bulk on host? did y ou use any library on the avr?
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> I have not used AVRs much
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> is this full speed device
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> ?
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[20:58] <adamgreig> yea
[20:58] <adamgreig> want to manage at least like 2Mbps I guess
[20:58] <adamgreig> maybe 1 would be fine
[20:58] <LeoBodnar> it's OK then. low speed does not have bulk transfers
[20:59] <LeoBodnar> You should be fine then. I have managed about 800kB/sec
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[21:06] <Laurenceb_> usb: it might be a pita, but at least its better than i2c
[21:06] <LeoBodnar> hehe USB is useable
[21:06] <arko> how can you compare the two?
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> USB is annoyingly complex, i2c is annoying
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: could you check my sampled data?
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> i dont have Kai Borre code running on this machine, sorry
[21:07] <Laurenceb_> id have to dig up an old hard drive, maybe tomorrow
[21:08] <arko> http://travisgoodspeed.blogspot.com/2012/07/emulating-usb-devices-with-python.html
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> im busy with i2c sensor failure atm
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> Here is the 1ms vs 2ms acquisition, does not make sense:
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> Here is the 1ms vs 2ms acquisition, does not make sense: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/PRN5.png
[21:08] <arko> always reminds me of this when people talk about usb as a bus
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> interesting
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> too much of a difference
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> something doesnt make sense there
[21:08] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> more importantly, why are peak highs so different
[21:09] <LeoBodnar> no idea
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> how does your code work?
[21:09] <LeoBodnar> I thought you might stick the data into your code
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> you have >> 2ms of raw data?
[21:09] <LeoBodnar> dumb successive search
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> so you have >>2ms of data and you slide prn alongside and correlate?
[21:10] <LeoBodnar> yeah, 8 msec: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/gpsdata.bin
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[21:10] <LeoBodnar> I correlate with one PRN and with two PRNs
[21:10] <Laurenceb_> i see
[21:11] <LeoBodnar> two PRNs produce much cleaner peaks
[21:11] <LeoBodnar> one PRN is almost invisible
[21:11] <LeoBodnar> above data is 16,368,000 sps, IF is 4,092,000 MSB is earliest sample
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> ok ill try for you :P
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> cheers
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> so whats the format of the data?
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> byte/sample?
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> yes each byte is separate
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> signed byte?
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> no, packed bits
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> arg
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> octave doesnt like
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> 404 error too
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> MSB = earliest, LSB is latest, then next byte
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> so single bit?
[21:14] <LeoBodnar> yes 1-bit samples
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> ok
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> still 404
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> here too
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> On reflection, I will not download it.
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> I was just thinking of quickly hacking up a receiver in awk
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:16] <SpeedEvil> Which may indicate I'm too tired to be thinking rationally.
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> hehe
[21:18] <LeoBodnar> let me fix the dl
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> works now
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> ok got it
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> ill have up something in octave
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> *hack
[21:20] <LeoBodnar> cheers
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> http://www.mathworks.co.uk/matlabcentral/fileexchange/14670-gps-ca-code-generator
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> thats handy
[21:23] <LeoBodnar> I generate C/A with shift registers as in specification
[21:23] <LeoBodnar> after failing to find tabulated data
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> think i can use c style logical operators to split the bytesa
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> only vectorised obviously
[21:27] <Laurenceb_> or actually i could call bitget on the whole file...
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> i think this can be done in 6 lines :P
[21:34] <LeoBodnar> hehe
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> arg no
[21:35] <LeoBodnar> GPS in awk would be fine
[21:35] <Laurenceb_> i forgot doppler
[21:35] <LeoBodnar> For PRN5 i have doppler -3300Hz
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> of course the next stage is to calculate position
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> if i can get a fix ill work on getting that running in octave
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> with 1ms of data :P
[21:37] <LeoBodnar> hehe
[21:38] <LeoBodnar> It's sampled at 18:03UTC today near Silverstone
[21:39] <LeoBodnar> No need to calculate the position, I have just given it to you lol
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[21:39] <LeoBodnar> How much sat clocks deviate from exact?
[21:40] <LeoBodnar> *time
[21:40] <jcoxon> ping jeffewil
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> about 5Khz i think
[21:40] <Laurenceb_> im going to search +-20kHz
[21:41] <jeffewil> hi jcoxon
[21:41] <LeoBodnar> that's too much
[21:42] <jcoxon> any progress?
[21:42] <jeffewil> jcoxon i tried just changing for libpng but don't have the file on my computer
[21:42] <LeoBodnar> I mean the clock data sent in the NAV message - how much correction is applied vs assumed absolute timing?
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: My understanding was the nav message was sent at integer 6 second boundaries starting beginning of week
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> satellite time
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> That would be nice but there is small correction for actual time vs absolute time that is sent in NAV message
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> I wonder how big it is?
[21:44] <jeffewil> jcoxon >> http://pastebin.com/0J6BUKAf
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> My understanding is that that's sent in the ephimirides per sat
[21:44] <LeoBodnar> if it's in the order of +-100m equivalent position then it can probably be ignored
[21:44] <SpeedEvil> I may have misread or misremembered stuff though
[21:45] <jcoxon> jeffewil, lets go to PM
[21:46] Action: Laurenceb_ is frantically coding PRN searcher...
[21:46] <LeoBodnar> Satellite Clock Correction Parameters is in subframe 1
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> Ephemeris is subframes 2 and 3
[21:50] <SpeedEvil> What's the maximum value?
[21:50] <LeoBodnar> no idea, http://www.gps.gov/technical/ps/1995-SPS-signal-specification.pdf page 24
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: so MSB is most recent data?
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> and most significant bit?>
[21:53] <LeoBodnar> no the oldest
[21:54] <LeoBodnar> the first received sample is byte zero bit 7
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> right
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> so byte zero is what i read first from the file?
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> <n00b mode>
[21:54] <LeoBodnar> yeah
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> ok
[21:55] <LeoBodnar> so (buffer[0] >> 7) & 1 is your first sample
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[21:57] <Laurenceb_> right
[21:59] <SpeedEvil> http://www.gdgps.net/products/nav-message.html - gah - paywalls are annoying
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[22:01] <LeoBodnar> crap, I was expecting somebody to provide current NAV data but not for cash
[22:01] <SpeedEvil> I mean - really.
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[22:12] <Laurenceb_> this is annoyingly slow atm :-S
[22:12] <Laurenceb_> harder than i thought
[22:13] <LeoBodnar> heh
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[22:13] <SpeedEvil> ftp://garner.ucsd.edu/pub/nav/2014/022/ ?
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> looks like it
[22:14] <Laurenceb_> yeah that + RTC + approx position (+-100km) gives a fix
[22:14] <LeoBodnar> what is in the titz file?
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> ftp://igscb.jpl.nasa.gov/pub/data/format/rinex210.txt
[22:15] <SpeedEvil> I think
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[22:19] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> hi all is there an IC version of the ATMEGA328 and if so is there an eagle part for it
[22:19] <arko> yes and yes
[22:19] <arko> isn the atmega328 an IC?
[22:19] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> cheers
[22:20] <arko> do you mean smaller package?
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[22:20] <arko> not throughhole?
[22:20] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> not SMD
[22:20] <arko> oh
[22:20] <arko> so throughhole
[22:20] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> I want to use it with an IC holder
[22:20] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> thats it
[22:20] <arko> yes
[22:20] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> any idea what it is in eagle
[22:20] <arko> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATMEGA328P-PU/ATMEGA328P-PU-ND/1914589
[22:20] <arko> PU package
[22:21] <arko> im certain the eagle default atmel or sparkfun lbr has it
[22:21] <arko> there are tons online
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> Steve_mirc_2e0ve, I think there is an Atmel library in EAGLE
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:21] <Lunar_Lander> as arko said
[22:21] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> there is an AMTEL lib but i cannot find it in it
[22:22] <arko> really? its default
[22:22] <arko> with any eagle install
[22:22] <arko> add part
[22:22] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> there are the SMD ones
[22:22] <arko> look for atmel
[22:22] <arko> hmm
[22:22] <arko> perhaps get the sparkfun lbr
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[22:23] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> when doing the board from the schematic do you just put the chip on or do you define the holder as well
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[22:23] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> ta zeusbot
[22:24] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> yep its in sparkfun
[22:24] <arko> cool
[22:27] <chrisstubbs> cool to see nsl on hackaday arko!
[22:28] <arko> :)
[22:28] <chrisstubbs> was their LA meet thing today?
[22:28] <arko> last night yeah
[22:28] <arko> very fun
[22:28] <chrisstubbs> Awesome :D
[22:28] <arko> had great time
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> hey chrisstubbs
[22:29] <chrisstubbs> Evening
[22:29] <arko> got to meet a lot of the guys again
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> ah wait Steve_mirc_2e0ve
[22:29] <arko> glad they put the clip of me in the video too :P
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> mostly the parts in the libraries have multiple package options
[22:29] <Lunar_Lander> i.e. if you open up a library part, you can select DIP, TQFP and so on
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[22:33] <Willdude123> Nice new IC-703 from the club. Going to get a G5RV up at some point I think
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[22:36] <solarballoonman> Help, Is Tom Lyons on here?
[22:37] <solarballoonman> I need to get in contact with him.
[22:42] <solarballoonman> me is wondering anyone there?
[22:43] <solarballoonman> whoops
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[22:56] <Babs_> more solarballoonman please
[22:56] <Willdude123> Wut?
[22:56] <arko> is he some sort of super hero?
[22:56] <arko> saves the day with solarballoons?
[22:57] <Babs_> duuhhhhh. arko.
[22:57] <Babs_> he was stung by radiation in the upper atmosphere
[22:57] <arko> haha
[22:57] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:58] <Babs_> and now he can basically metamorphose into a hwoyee 73kg
[22:58] <Babs_> well, 73kg+/- 2kg judging by their useful slackful tolerances
[22:58] <fsphil> has a rather inflated ego
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> you know, there was a guy who proposed that the prehistoric humans were zapped by cosmic rays in some highland and then turned into Homo Sapiens
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[22:58] <arko> kg damn
[22:58] <Babs_> ooo. nice fsphil.
[22:58] <arko> fsphil: bravo
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, yay!
[22:58] <Babs_> *bows to fsphil*
[22:58] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, do you have the link to the Curiosity Mountain photo you had this afternoon?
[22:59] <Babs_> it's like you are on a hair trigger for any pun opportunity
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> if you don't have it at hand, I can check the chatlog
[22:59] <fsphil> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Curiosity_on_Mars.jpg
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[22:59] <fsphil> not sure it's a mountain, could be the edge of the crater the rover is in
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> arko, someone commented on this photo that the RTG has no trefoil warning on it and how this affects the martians xD
[22:59] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:00] <arko> tough luck?
[23:00] <fsphil> could have just stopped them invading earth Lunar_Lander
[23:00] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[23:00] <fsphil> was reading up on the suspension the rovers use, it's really neat
[23:00] <fsphil> and so simple
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:01] <fsphil> the name spoils it
[23:01] <Babs_> arko - wat dis? http://www.flickr.com/photos/arkorobotics/12046324156/
[23:01] <fsphil> rocker-bogie
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> actually, I wanted to discuss something else I read on german scienceblogs
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> yea fsphil
[23:01] <qyx_> fsphil: do you have some link?
[23:01] <arko> Babs_: i'm beta testing Upu's new 145Mhz preamp/filter
[23:01] <arko> for aprs and cubesats
[23:01] <arko> using the hackrf
[23:01] <arko> and usbrtl
[23:01] <Babs_> who is sending a cubesat up?
[23:01] <Lunar_Lander> there apperantly has been a rock that appeared at Opportunity's current location over the course of new year's
[23:02] <arko> nobody...?
[23:02] <arko> its just cubesats that fly over all the time
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> on Christmas the rock wasn't there yet
[23:02] <arko> lots of fun stuff on 2m
[23:02] <Babs_> ahhh ok
[23:02] <Babs_> ps am designing a pcb
[23:02] <arko> gonna do a little demo video this weekend hopefully
[23:02] <arko> :) nice dude
[23:02] <Babs_> its going to be totally like Bell Labs in the 1950s
[23:02] <arko> hahah
[23:02] <Babs_> intentionally of course
[23:02] <Willdude123> Oh dear
[23:02] <Willdude123> Wii Fit U
[23:02] <Lunar_Lander> here http://www.nasa.gov/jpl/mer/rock-pinnacle-island-pia17761/index.html
[23:03] <Willdude123> Sounds like a bra fitting service
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> arko, I think that is very exciting
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> the rock thing I mean
[23:03] <arko> yeah
[23:03] <fsphil> can't find the page now qyx_
[23:03] <arko> cant wait to see the data and wht not
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[23:03] <Lunar_Lander> does the Mössbauer spectrometer on it still work btw?
[23:04] <arko> i think so
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> as the Cobalt decays over time, and it has been running 10 years
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> the last two mondays I had two lectures about Mössbauer that also touched the MERs at the end
[23:04] <Babs_> here's the schematic for my tracker. it's taking a while to draw on eagle. http://tinyurl.com/62tk96
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> the lecturer really is amazed by that method
[23:04] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:05] <fsphil> so want a hackrf
[23:05] <Babs_> Just hoping Steve stocks a 1 tonne hwoyee and I can tap off some helium (well all of it) from the LHC to fly it
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> I heard a funny thing, don't know if correct
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> LHC shuts down in Winter as the power is supply by France
[23:05] <arko> Babs_: haha
[23:05] <Lunar_Lander> and the costs for power increase in Winter as many french households have electric heating
[23:06] <Babs_> in all seriousness, i have got well into eagle
[23:06] <arko> any relation to the family?
[23:06] <arko> oh nice
[23:06] <Babs_> my fears proved unfounded
[23:06] <Babs_> no, no relation
[23:06] <arko> aww
[23:06] <arko> that would be epic
[23:06] <arko> cv material
[23:06] <Lunar_Lander> Babs_, cool!
[23:07] <Lunar_Lander> I know a related machine
[23:07] <Babs_> this dude is though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Babington
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[23:07] <fsphil> some engine, doesn't even move!
[23:07] <Babs_> i've seen where he was hung, drawn and quartered.
[23:08] <fsphil> hah, The "Babington Plot"
[23:08] <fsphil> we're on to you Babs_
[23:08] <arko> haha
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> Babs_, http://www.life.illinois.edu/govindjee/history/Chance2004.pdf
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> this is about stopped-flow, what I also did in my B.Sc. thesis
[23:09] <Babs_> the 2014 version of the Babington Plot is a Truman Show esque IRC channel where Richard Babington goes on to get periodically humiliated through his lack of knowledge of all things coding
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> scroll to page 7
[23:09] <arko> hahahaha
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> you find the mechanical computer they built in 1939
[23:09] <Lunar_Lander> XD
[23:10] <Babs_> Nice L_L
[23:10] <arko> so i need some help trying to figure out what this beacon is
[23:10] <arko> https://soundcloud.com/arkorobotics/sdrsharp-20140119-205136z
[23:11] <arko> used the preamp/filter and found it hiding
[23:11] <Babs_> one last one - does everyone on here a) hand solder SMD (which i have done but is a pain) or b) have a reflow oven. And does anyone reflow on a skillet? I saw some sparkfun dude reckon it was just as good as an oven, but i dont know whether he was drunk when he wrote that
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[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> sounds good arko
[23:12] <fsphil> dx alert, weird!
[23:12] <arko> 28021.1 Dx alert jw2us 14.001.00
[23:12] <Upu> Hand solder and reflow oven Babs
[23:12] <Upu> for one offs hand solder
[23:12] <fsphil> a computer monitoring for distant callsigns?
[23:12] <Upu> skillet is crap
[23:12] <Babs_> arko - have you ever heard the shipping forecast?
[23:12] <fsphil> then anouncing them on radio?
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> yea I wondered about that also
[23:12] <arko> Babs_: yes! found out about it when i was in the uk
[23:12] <arko> super cool
[23:12] <Lunar_Lander> I mean I have constructed that SMD board now
[23:12] <Babs_> it sounds just like that clip
[23:13] <Lunar_Lander> if we should be bold and try hand soldering
[23:13] <arko> yes!
[23:13] <arko> or numberstations
[23:13] <Babs_> Upu - and feasible to hand solder the surface mount SMD atmega/Ublox?
[23:13] <fsphil> the shipping forecast won't have much purpose when they end AM broadcasts
[23:13] <Upu> oh easily yes
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[23:13] <arko> fsphil: http://www.qrz.com/db/JW2US
[23:13] <Upu> I have literally hand soldered over 500 ublox modules
[23:13] <arko> callsign mentioned
[23:13] <Babs_> do you do that pin by pin, or can you do it just dragging across all of the pins now?
[23:13] <Upu> but you need a reasonable iron
[23:14] <arko> metcal 4 lyf
[23:14] <Upu> drag soldering never worked for me just pin by pin
[23:14] <Upu> yes Metcal
[23:14] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> is it possible to get ISPP headers that fit in to breadboard
[23:14] <Upu> or Hakko 888
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> we got a Weller WTCP-S I think
[23:14] <Upu> http://dx.com/p/hanko-fx-888-70w-soldering-station-ac-220v-126505
[23:14] <Lunar_Lander> the only problem is that it does not have a temperature dial
[23:14] <Upu> with a small tip
[23:15] <Upu> if you want to drive up to Yorkshire you're welcome to use the metcal
[23:16] <Babs_> thanks upu - i've got some temperature controlled maplin thing
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[23:16] <arko> stencil and paste it yo
[23:16] <Babs_> so not the basic one
[23:16] <Babs_> ark - does one not need an oven for that though?
[23:16] <arko> sure
[23:16] <arko> or hot plate
[23:16] <fsphil> kitchen!
[23:16] <Upu> right night all
[23:16] <arko> night upu!
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[23:16] <Babs_> see you upu - thanks
[23:17] <fsphil> nite
[23:17] <Babs_> arko - upu said hot skillet was not going to work that well
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> good night Upu
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> thanks for sharing your knowledge at all times! :)
[23:17] <Babs_> i guess i will probably order a few pcbs and see how i get on
[23:17] <WillTablet> My radio manual says that the atu will not operate with a long wire or ladder line
[23:17] <WillTablet> Does that mean I can't coax feed a balun that feeds a g5rv?
[23:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea I wonder
[23:17] <Babs_> how do i put a hole in an eagle circuit board thang anyhow?
[23:18] <arko> hot skillets are no good
[23:18] <arko> get a proper hot plate
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> should you have temperature control on your iron for SMD?
[23:18] <arko> for smd
[23:18] <Babs_> arko - linky
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> as I said at Uni we got that Weller thing which seems to have been quite expensive
[23:18] <Lunar_Lander> but it has no temp control
[23:18] <arko> http://www.smtmax.com/detail.php?id=56
[23:18] <arko> these are awesome
[23:18] <arko> but expensive
[23:19] <Babs_> weller? http://www.live4ever.uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/pw7.jpg
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> do you put the PCB on that, wait for a moment and done?
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> Babs_, ah
[23:19] <Lunar_Lander> RoboCop, right? :)
[23:19] <Babs_> Eton Rifles L_L
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> oh
[23:20] <Lunar_Lander> I thought PW was Peter weller
[23:20] <arko> http://www.aliexpress.com/item/220-110V-AC-YOUYUE-946A-LCD-screen-separator-split-screen-machine/1324975676.html
[23:21] <Babs_> arko - where do you get your stencils printed?
[23:21] <arko> pcb houses usually will do them for you
[23:21] <Babs_> don't say NASA, it will not be useful to me
[23:21] <arko> i laser cut my own
[23:21] <arko> :P
[23:21] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[23:21] <Babs_> oooooo. get you with your own laser cut stencils!
[23:21] <arko> hackvana for example will charge you $30
[23:21] <Babs_> ahhh ok.
[23:21] <arko> which is soooo worth it when you have loads of parts
[23:21] <Babs_> each or for a few?
[23:22] <Babs_> just looked it up. you can reuse them by the look of it
[23:22] <Babs_> does no one make disposable ones you can just stick down to avoid the potential for the stencil to slip?
[23:24] <arko> yep
[23:24] <arko> well
[23:24] <arko> i've seen a kapton one once
[23:24] <arko> but i dont imagine its very good
[23:24] <arko> just get the thin metal ones
[23:24] <arko> save yourself the pain
[23:25] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> DOES THIS LOOK OK FOR THE isp HEADER http://imgur.com/wRxtZ9E
[23:25] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> bloody caps lock
[23:26] <mfa298> WillTablet: the built in ATU on a radio should be ok with a G5RV, Longwire is a different matter (they're generally very long wires, i.e. several wavelengths long). On a G5RV the ladder line section is part of the antenna not the feedline - it's fed with coax still
[23:26] <Lunar_Lander> ah can I interject something non-electronics related?
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Sure.
[23:27] <SpeedEvil> Is it about cheesecake?
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> btw, arko and Babs_ I think hackvana said he doesn't do laser cut stencils anymore
[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> but I am not sure
[23:27] <arko> o well
[23:27] <arko> thats lame
[23:27] <craag> Lunar_Lander: He didn't for a bit, but does now.
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[23:27] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> and I think he said on IRC yesterday that he quits offering them
[23:28] <craag> oh, again?
[23:28] <craag> :(
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:28] <craag> darn
[23:28] <SpeedEvil> shrdlu over on ##electronics also does htem
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> I'll check the logs in a moment
[23:28] <Lunar_Lander> but what I wanted to show you http://s.gullipics.com/image/v/3/2/5yva4u-k2a8wy-l6sq/vlcsnap2014012300h25m02s34.png
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> For a reasonable fee
[23:29] <SpeedEvil> http://www.smtstencil.co.uk/
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> 12 quid a 22cm square sheet
[23:30] <SpeedEvil> but you can panelise and do whatever in that
[23:30] <craag> Ah cheers SpeedEvil
[23:30] <Babs_> hey speedevil
[23:30] <Babs_> are those adhesive backed?
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> Jan 21 23:44:20 <Upu> "I no longer supply laser-cut stainless steel stencils."
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> Jan 21 23:44:22 <Tgknnx> mmmmmm coffeee
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> Jan 21 23:44:33 <Upu> still beta testing ?
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> Jan 21 23:56:00 <hackvana> It's my worst kept secret :-)
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> that I meant
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> probably a misunderstanding on my end craag
[23:31] <craag> Oh cool
[23:31] <craag> Yes we got a couple of stencils from him just before christmas
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:31] <SpeedEvil> Babs_: I do not believe so
[23:31] <Lunar_Lander> and on that TV screenshot I meant "can you see the discrepancy?"
[23:32] <Babs_> (this may be an open ended question but...) - if its just thin polyester, what stops it from snagging/gives it the rigidity to stay close to the pcb when spreading the paste on?
[23:32] <arko> pressure
[23:33] <arko> you put glob of solder paste across it
[23:33] <arko> then use a giant squeegy and pressdown and drag
[23:33] <craag> Lunar_Lander: You mean the discrepancy between what that girl is wearing, and real clothes?
[23:33] <arko> you then lift straight up
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:33] <arko> its fine
[23:33] <Lunar_Lander> also the sign the left woman is holding
[23:33] <craag> yes
[23:33] <Babs_> time to try it arko for me i think!
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> that is in LA btw
[23:34] <Babs_> cheers guys, night
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[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> good night Babs_
[23:34] <Lunar_Lander> arko, is it common to see people like this in the city? if I may ask
[23:34] <arko> ?
[23:34] <arko> see what?
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/v/3/2/5yva4u-k2a8wy-l6sq/vlcsnap2014012300h25m02s34.png the woman on the left with the sign
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> as I said that is from Los Angeles
[23:35] <arko> not really
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:35] <arko> you do in hollywood
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah ok
[23:35] <arko> north hollywood
[23:35] <craag> which is probably where they are
[23:35] <arko> santa monica
[23:35] <arko> etc
[23:35] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[23:35] <craag> LA is huuuge
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea actually the reason the show is made in LA is cause Heidi Klum wants to be near her kids and stuff
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> according to Wikipedia
[23:36] <craag> I took the bus from central station to santa monica, took hours!
[23:36] <arko> LA is very big
[23:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[23:36] <arko> craag: haha
[23:36] <arko> when you in LA again?
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> in germany there is a series of detective stories called "The Three Question Marks" or simply "???"
[23:37] <craag> Won't for a while I think. This was when I was travelling about 4 years ago
[23:37] <Lunar_Lander> which is about three guys working on the scrapyard of one's father and solving crime cases for a hobby
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> and they are located at a placed called Rocky Beach
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> but Santa Monica was featured once as well
[23:38] <Lunar_Lander> ah "The Three Investigators" it is
[23:39] <Lunar_Lander> Rocky Beach does not exist I just read, but the story locates it between LA and santa barbara
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[23:40] <WillTablet> /topic
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[23:41] <Lunar_LanderA> so that was an router error
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[23:50] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: ping
[23:50] Action: Laurenceb_ is failing
[23:50] <Laurenceb_> story of my life
[23:50] <Laurenceb_> something Nan'd
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> ill have this working "real soon now"
[23:52] <LeoBodnar> yo
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> im trying fft doconvolve and its exploding in my face
[23:52] <LeoBodnar> take your time there is no rush :D
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> heh
[23:52] <LeoBodnar> have you tried simple brute force search first?
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> nope
[23:53] <Steve_mirc_2e0ve> why would eagle say there is an unconnected pin when it is clearly connected
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> i have this working.. on an old hard drive somewhere
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> http://pastebin.com/yprTSHEL
[23:53] <LeoBodnar> you should see PRN 5 sat at -3300Hz doppler at about 511.5 chips off the beginning of the file
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> right
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> i see... Nan
[23:54] <Laurenceb_> Nan Nan Nan
[23:54] <LeoBodnar> Nyan Nyan Nyan
[23:55] <Laurenceb_> Nan cat
[23:55] <Laurenceb_> hes dividing by zero
[23:55] <LeoBodnar> All 24 hours of it on youtube
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[23:58] <Laurenceb_> sod it
[23:58] <Laurenceb_> ill xcorr it
[23:58] <Laurenceb_> fft is exploding somewhere
[23:58] <LeoBodnar> how are you converting the samples?
[23:59] <LeoBodnar> 1->1 and 0-> -1?
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> http://pastie.org/8658669
[23:59] <Laurenceb_> yes
[00:00] --- Thu Jan 23 2014