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[00:31] <Laurenceb_> http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/sapphire.php
[00:31] <Laurenceb_> impressive
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[00:35] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Damn.
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> That looks more or less identical to mine.
[00:35] <SpeedEvil> Except mine was a prototype made from lego
[00:36] <Darkside> Laurenceb_: is it just me or do you see the active vanes start to melt during the test
[00:36] <Darkside> in the high speed
[00:36] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: And it was a nastier hack.
[00:36] <Laurenceb_> i was just wondering
[00:36] <Laurenceb_> what they were mad eof
[00:36] <Darkside> yeah
[00:36] <Laurenceb_> "surely it cant be copper"
[00:36] <Darkside> somthing with a pretty fricking high melting point i'd xpct
[00:36] <Darkside> expect*
[00:36] <adamgreig> copper with active cooling could make sens
[00:36] <Laurenceb_> im actually wondering if its copper
[00:36] <adamgreig> would hae thought graphite would be an obvs candidate
[00:37] <adamgreig> think that's quite old tho
[00:37] <adamgreig> cusf are doing one vectoring the motor
[00:37] <adamgreig> might get a flight test this month or next
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: One graphite vane - dipped into the exhaust - and able to rotate under the control of one servo.
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Particularly insane variants of this have the vane slightly canted to provide torque, with the servo control just being a brake
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> So in 'idle' it spins at 120RPM or something.
[00:38] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> Regeneratively cooled rocket engine vanes seem 'optimistic'
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> I also wondered about something related.
[00:39] <Laurenceb_> just spin the rocket :P
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> An assymetric rotating nozzle extension.
[00:41] <SpeedEvil> I'd have some partial confidence in the copper guide vanes not being obliterated instantly if they were dipping into the very edges of the exhaust.
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[04:00] <lonesurvivor> Hey guys, I am doing a theoretical project, and I was looking for names of various temperature sensors most commonly used.
[04:00] <lonesurvivor> I will then go ahead and find the specifications of each
[04:01] <lonesurvivor> for*
[04:03] <Darkside> DS18B20
[04:03] <Darkside> probably the most commonly used one
[04:03] <Darkside> talks a onewire protocol
[04:04] <Darkside> and apart from a bit of thermal mass, is reasonably accurate down to about -50C
[04:04] <Darkside> below that you ned to go to thermocouples
[04:08] <lonesurvivor> oh alright. Thanks for the info.
[04:08] <lonesurvivor> will this work upto an alt of 10,000 feet?
[04:09] <Darkside> 10,000 feet isnt that high at all
[04:09] <Darkside> you probably wouldn't see temps below -20C
[04:10] <lonesurvivor> oh great!
[04:10] <Darkside> so why only 10000 ft?
[04:10] <lonesurvivor> do you think I should go higher? My project talks about a balloon going up to a max height, taking temp and pressure readings, and POP..
[04:11] <Darkside> a LOT highr
[04:11] <Darkside> 35km or so
[04:12] <Darkside> the current record for an amateur balloon launch is 44.3km i think
[04:12] <Darkside> but thats a bit more of a pain to do
[04:12] <lonesurvivor> oh wow
[04:12] <lonesurvivor> then i'll probably add another zero.. I'll make that 1,00,000 feet
[04:12] <Darkside> 35km is a bot more realistic
[04:12] <Darkside> yeah
[04:12] <lonesurvivor> cool.. thanks for the suggestion
[04:12] <Darkside> thats a nice round number (For you people still using ancient unit systems anyway)
[04:13] <lonesurvivor> any other temp sensors you can think of?
[04:13] <lonesurvivor> lol.. I am a bit old school I know
[04:14] <Darkside> cant think of any other sensors off the top of myt head
[04:15] <lonesurvivor> okay.. I'll try doing a bit of research on DS18B20 first
[04:15] <lonesurvivor> and pressure and humidity sensors you can think of? just for a start
[04:15] <lonesurvivor> any*
[04:15] <lonesurvivor> I had Sensirion SHT15 in mind..
[04:16] <Darkside> BMP085 works up to about 35km or so
[04:16] <Darkside> humidity, dunni
[04:16] <Darkside> a lot of them dont work at the stupidly low temps you encounter
[04:16] <lonesurvivor> and Interesma MS5540C for pressure
[04:16] <lonesurvivor> oh I see
[04:16] <Darkside> check the ratings for them
[04:16] <Darkside> tbh prssure is kind of worthlss
[04:16] <Darkside> you have a GPS for altitude
[04:17] <Darkside> above 10km or so, using pressure to get altitude becomes inaccurate
[04:17] <Darkside> as the pressure differences are so small, and the sensors wont have the required rsolution
[04:17] <lonesurvivor> considering these for a start......Inventek ISM300F2-C5-C0004 and Ublox NEO6MV2 Module
[04:17] <Darkside> we only use ublox
[04:18] <lonesurvivor> so should I scratch inventek?
[04:18] <Darkside> yes
[04:18] <lonesurvivor> okay. I didn't like the specs anyway
[04:18] <lonesurvivor> accelerometer suggestions?
[04:18] <Darkside> Upu sells a fw on breakout boards
[04:18] <Darkside> dunno, again, not something i've considered flying
[04:18] <lonesurvivor> okay.
[04:19] <lonesurvivor> and power source suggestions for this kind of flight?
[04:19] <Darkside> Energizer Lithium AA primary clls
[04:19] <Darkside> cells*
[04:19] <Darkside> the only chemistry we know that works reliably down to -50C without losing capacity
[04:19] <lonesurvivor> I see
[04:19] <lonesurvivor> will surely make a note of all this
[04:20] <Darkside> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60
[04:20] <lonesurvivor> another thing.. how do I calculate helium requirements for a given ascent rate and descent rate?
[04:20] <lonesurvivor> and burst altitude
[04:20] <Darkside> http://habhub.org/calc/
[04:21] <Darkside> that, in combination with http://predict.habhub.org/ to work out where a balloon with the given burst altitude and ascent rate will go
[04:22] <lonesurvivor> brilliant!
[04:22] <lonesurvivor> Thank you so much for all your help.
[04:23] <lonesurvivor> Will come back here, if I need some questions to be answered
[04:23] <Darkside> no probs
[04:34] <englishman> hey guys
[04:34] <englishman> i hear this is the hot Si4463 channel
[04:34] <Darkside> hah
[04:34] <Darkside> yes
[04:34] <englishman> anyone tried 4GFSK?
[04:34] <Darkside> but all the users of it are asleep
[04:34] <englishman> aw
[04:34] <englishman> Englanders?
[04:34] <Darkside> yes
[04:34] <Darkside> no-on ehas done any form of GFSK afaik
[04:35] <Darkside> mainly as no-one uses a Si446X on the ground to receive
[04:35] <englishman> yes i was afraid of that
[04:35] <englishman> low baud and bandwidth
[04:35] <Darkside> much better distance/reliability using a SSB receiver
[04:35] <Darkside> and lower baud rates
[04:35] <Darkside> remember, with a HAB, reliability is the aim of the game
[04:36] <Darkside> throughput is secondary
[04:36] <englishman> yep
[04:36] <englishman> i'm looking for 56kbps ota :P
[04:36] <Darkside> you can do it with enough power
[04:36] <englishman> it works on 2GFSK
[04:36] <englishman> also, shorter ranges
[04:36] <Darkside> in the UK they're limited to 10mW
[04:37] <Darkside> so that kind of screws them over in that regard
[04:37] <englishman> for HAB?
[04:37] <Darkside> yeah
[04:37] <Darkside> here in australia i know on guy had a 128kbps two-way link going on 915MHz
[04:37] <Darkside> but that was on watt at the balloon, and a big helical antenna on the ground
[04:37] <Darkside> one watt*
[04:38] <englishman> RFM23BP?
[04:38] <englishman> or something else
[04:38] <Darkside> it was a RFDesign module, which i think has a Si1000 in it
[04:38] <Darkside> plus a PA
[04:38] <Darkside> RFD900
[04:38] <Darkside> basically the same radio as is in the Si446X, but with a 8051 strapped to it
[04:38] <englishman> cool, will look into those
[04:39] <Darkside> genrally we dont ned those kind of rates
[04:39] <Darkside> as what we need to get down kind of falls in 2 bins: positional telemetry, which we dont need much throughput for anyway
[04:39] <SpeedEvil> http://www.astro.ubc.ca/LMT/ - 6m mercury telescope
[04:39] <Darkside> or HD Video, which would be stupidly impractical to transmit down
[04:40] <englishman> anyone done the video?
[04:40] <Darkside> ATV has been done many times
[04:40] <Darkside> but at SD
[04:40] <englishman> yes, analogue?
[04:40] <Darkside> yeah
[04:40] <Darkside> both AM and FM video has been done
[04:41] <Darkside> AM on 70cm, FM on 23cm iirc
[04:41] <englishman> ATSC modulators are just coming available to amateurs
[04:41] <Darkside> DVB-T has bn about for a while
[04:41] <Darkside> and DVB-S
[04:41] <Darkside> but you need fairly linear amplifiers for that to work, and the SNR requirements are higher than for AM/FM analog tv
[04:42] <englishman> even low res, and with all the ECC?
[04:42] <Darkside> so the payload ends up having to dissipate something like 20-30W of heat to get a signal down
[04:42] <Darkside> yeah
[04:42] <englishman> wow
[04:42] <Darkside> and dissipating that much heat from a high altitude balloon payload is actually quite difficult
[04:42] <englishman> hm
[04:42] <Darkside> there's no air to conduct the heat
[04:43] <englishman> that's something i didn't realize :)
[04:43] <englishman> cool :)
[04:43] <Darkside> you have to use pure radiation
[04:43] <Darkside> so yeah, we havent done it yet :P
[04:44] <englishman> i've seen these small ones http://www.hides.com.tw/product_cg74469_eng.html
[04:44] <englishman> certainly not 20W
[04:44] <Darkside> and would require a PC to run it
[04:44] <englishman> yeah but the modulator is there :)
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[04:45] <Darkside> mm
[04:45] <Darkside> anyway, we dont bother
[04:45] <Darkside> we just track the payload and recover it
[04:45] <Darkside> w're happy to wait a fw hours for the footage :P
[04:45] <englishman> do they get recovered? i've seen those LeoBodnar balloons that land in the middle of nowhere, and there are like 3 a week
[04:46] <Darkside> those are just telemetry beacons
[04:46] <Darkside> intendd as tests of telemetry hardware, or of modulation schemes
[04:46] <Darkside> they are throwaways
[04:46] <Darkside> if you fly somethign like a gopro, of course you'll want to recover it
[04:47] <Darkside> we've done launches where we've had maybe a few thousand dollars worth of camera gear in a box
[04:47] <englishman> hm ok
[04:47] <englishman> different payloads
[04:47] <englishman> :)
[04:47] <Darkside> best to practice launching and recoving before you go that far though :P
[04:47] <Darkside> we've gotten quite good at it
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[04:49] <englishman> yeah balloon launches are interesting, but not related to this Si4463 project
[04:49] <englishman> will have to hook up with a local balloon launch team someday to watch :)
[04:51] <Darkside> so th main Si446X person to talk to is Leo, who is a crazy englishman who programs almost entirely in PIC assembly
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[05:10] <englishman> thanks, will look out for when he's here
[05:40] <SpeedEvil> With proper launch planning you can get of the order of 10-20km landing errors from a balloon to 40km
[05:44] <Darkside> yup
[05:44] <Darkside> thats about what we get
[05:44] <Darkside> of course that 10-20km area is set right at launch :P
[05:44] <Darkside> not the day before
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[06:34] <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
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[07:00] <jphoglund> good morning everyone
[07:06] <adwiens> morning
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[07:06] <x-f> morning
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[08:15] <Lunar_LanderU> morning
[08:19] <Maxell> sane Lunar_LanderU
[08:19] <Lunar_LanderU> thanks
[08:21] <fsphil> sane? good to know
[08:22] <fsphil> you wouldn't want a crazy Lunar_LanderU
[08:22] <Lunar_LanderU> xD
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[08:34] <Lunar_LanderT> so we got the track switch :)
[08:35] <eroomde> rosetta should wake up this morning
[08:36] <Darkside> rosetta?
[08:36] <Darkside> sat?
[08:36] <eroomde> yes
[08:37] <Darkside> whats onboard?
[08:37] <eroomde> put to hibernate 2.5yrs ago as the orbit went beyond solar panel range
[08:37] <eroomde> timer set for 10am this morning
[08:37] <Darkside> heh ok
[08:37] <eroomde> not a peep from it in that time, they just spin stabilized it and powered it down
[08:37] <eroomde> which is ballsy
[08:38] <Darkside> ooh cool
[08:38] <eroomde> so a lot of people have thier fingers crossed atm
[08:39] <eroomde> it's going to rendevous with a comet and drop a lander
[08:39] <Darkside> so 10AM UK time?
[08:39] <eroomde> yes
[08:39] <Darkside> any livestreams or anything?
[08:39] <eroomde> 1.5hrs
[08:39] <eroomde> it has to startup, then will just produce a carrier
[08:39] <Lunar_LanderT> and the actual landing is scheduled for November 10 as far as I know
[08:40] <Lunar_LanderT> hoping for the best
[08:42] <eroomde> yep
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[08:51] <fsphil> you'd think there was enough PV power to just beep the radio once in a while
[08:52] <fsphil> the guts of that thing must be freezing
[08:52] <jphoglund> Darkside, http://www.esa.int/spaceinvideos/esalive
[08:52] <Darkside> cool
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[09:00] <Lunar_LanderT> so, after activation of the Computer at 10 AM, the star trackers will heat up and the signals will first be received around 6 PM?
[09:05] <Maxell> jphoglund: live images from that Rosetta sonde coming in?
[09:11] <fsphil> doubt we'll get images
[09:11] <fsphil> it'll probably just be engineering data
[09:12] <fsphil> urg, feedback
[09:19] <fsphil> ah they've fixed it
[09:23] <Maxell> VAYU-NTX - Bexleyheath - Tues 21st Jan @20:00h
[09:24] <Maxell> 20:00h uk time?
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[09:25] <fsphil> yea
[09:32] <Maxell> Hmm, http://projecthab.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Launch-Predict-20140121.jpg wonder how floater would look
[09:32] <Maxell> lemme run prediction real quick
[09:39] <fsphil> if he talks any more Rosetta won't be the only thing needing woke up
[09:40] <x-f> indeed
[09:41] <x-f> i don't understand - how will they wake it up, if Rosetta is programmed to wake up on Jan 20th?
[09:42] <LazyLeopard> It'll either wake up, or it won't. If it doesn't...
[09:45] <x-f> 6 AU from the Sun?
[09:46] <Maxell> new prediction for VAYU-NTX http://i.imgur.com/YsVxAT1.png
[09:47] <Maxell> wait, forgot the burst altitude - does that matter for floats? 8 km for float would be OK right?
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[09:49] <Maxell> @ 8 kms it only goes more north - looping all the way above norways, sweden and finland...
[09:50] <Maxell> Loop da loop http://i.imgur.com/T0o83yZ.png
[10:01] <fsphil> it's going to be a while before we know if it survived
[10:01] <Maxell> Hows Rosseta doing?
[10:02] <fsphil> basically takes a while to warm up, orientation and the aiming for earth and sending a signal
[10:02] <fsphil> 6 hours to warm up
[10:07] <Maxell> Damnit ESA
[10:08] Action: Maxell hibernates for another 6 hours
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[10:19] <nats`> hi boyz :)
[10:20] <eroomde> there might be girlz
[10:20] <eroomde> but hi
[10:20] <eroomde> nats`: guess what i have half a bottle of for lunch today left over from day's bday yesterday
[10:20] <eroomde> (not bourgogne)
[10:20] <eroomde> Willdude123: you might find this interesting: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/01120a.pdf
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[10:24] <nats`> oO
[10:24] <nats`> first happy birthday
[10:25] <nats`> and second I would say some Bordeau :)
[10:25] <nats`> uhhmmmm
[10:25] <eroomde> dad's bday infact
[10:25] <eroomde> yes correct!
[10:25] <nats`> margaux ?
[10:25] <eroomde> 1982 Latour
[10:25] <nats`> chateau margaux
[10:25] <nats`> OMG !!!
[10:25] <nats`> a 23years latour
[10:25] <Lunar_LanderT> yay
[10:25] <nats`> oO
[10:25] <eroomde> 32 years!
[10:26] <nats`> 32 sorry
[10:26] <nats`> older than me !
[10:26] <eroomde> and me
[10:26] <nats`> dude where do you live I take girlz and I come :)
[10:26] <eroomde> dad apparently bought a case each of all the primeurs
[10:26] <eroomde> in 1982
[10:26] <nats`> good idea !
[10:26] <eroomde> yeah!
[10:27] <nats`> my friend do the same each year he buy some bottle from the year and keep them
[10:27] <eroomde> well several but he's hoping to auction some
[10:27] <eroomde> yeah it's a very good idea
[10:27] <nats`> a Latour from 1982 should be pricey already
[10:27] <eroomde> yes, though the market apparently took a dip with everything else
[10:27] <eroomde> and should be better in 2-3 years
[10:27] <nats`> 1000 euros
[10:28] <eroomde> yeah, 6k for the case is what dad said
[10:28] <nats`> yep exactly :=)
[10:28] <nats`> plus apparently 1982 was a good year for Bordeau
[10:28] <eroomde> yes
[10:28] <eroomde> v
[10:29] <nats`> nice one hope you had a nice lunch with that :)
[10:29] <nats`> and not a pizza from the fast food :D
[10:29] <eroomde> hah no
[10:29] <nats`> I saw too much american doing that
[10:29] <nats`> give me some murder thought
[10:29] <eroomde> rack of lamb in a herby crust and roasted vegetables
[10:29] <eroomde> was nice
[10:29] <nats`> that's what I call a lunch !
[10:30] <eroomde> it was good!
[10:30] <eroomde> and murder-gras for starter
[10:31] <eroomde> i am however sharing the 2nd half of the bottle with my colleagues for lunch.... which will be sandwiches
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[10:39] <fsphil> nothing wrong with a nice onion-deprived sandwich
[10:40] <nats`> eroomde right now I'm dreaming to be one of your colleague
[10:40] <nats`> this bottle must be a treasure
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[10:58] <eroomde> new psu from ebay
[10:58] <nats`> ?
[10:58] <eroomde> looks like it lived at the royal navy engineering college in gosport
[10:59] <nats`> some gigawatt 12V PSU ?
[10:59] <eroomde> it's really pretty nice
[10:59] <eroomde> no just double-sided bench psu
[10:59] <eroomde> for the 2nd electronicvs bench
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[10:59] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/khp8cetvcm9hblf/2014-01-20%2010.50.33.jpg
[11:00] <fsphil> cute
[11:01] <nats`> nice one
[11:01] <nats`> I got a agilent myself some weeks ago
[11:01] <nats`> with RS232 interface
[11:01] <nats`> to graph power consumption over time
[11:01] <eroomde> i have a pair of agilent 6632b
[11:01] <eroomde> love them
[11:01] <eroomde> but big and fan-noise
[11:01] <eroomde> they'll go to my home lab once i get the home lab
[11:03] <nats`> you mean a bedroom ? right :D
[11:03] <fsphil> bad idea to mix the two
[11:04] <fsphil> I can no longer see my floor
[11:04] <fsphil> getting out of bed in the dark is dangerous :)
[11:04] <gonzo_> resistor lead clippings in the duvet are a pain
[11:04] <fsphil> ooch
[11:04] <fsphil> I've stood on those too
[11:04] <fsphil> not nice
[11:05] <gonzo_> the DIL wound is also painful (and sickenijng if you have to use a screwdriver to remove it!)
[11:05] <eroomde> nats`: no! a whole spare room!
[11:05] <eroomde> well, it'll be the spare bedroom
[11:05] <eroomde> and also my lab
[11:05] <nats`> eroomde I would love so much to have one
[11:05] <eroomde> my poor guests
[11:05] <nats`> for now I have everything in the bedroom
[11:05] <nats`> from microscope to spectrum analyzer and soldering tool
[11:05] <gonzo_> (is that bad> Should I have used a proper DIL tool?)
[11:06] <eroomde> all in the spare bedroom :)
[11:06] <nats`> I should remove the bed :D
[11:06] <gonzo_> mine is the living room
[11:06] <nats`> it would become a room :D
[11:06] <gonzo_> 9actually it's the whole house)
[11:06] <fsphil> if the shed was warmer I'd use that for my lab
[11:07] <fsphil> too cold in the winter, too hot in the summer
[11:07] <gonzo_> sheds are damp, not ideal
[11:07] <fsphil> yes and the condensation
[11:10] <gonzo_> I installed a wood burner in my garage, to make winter mechanical work nocer. The prob is, you spend the whole eve playing with the fire and not doing work
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[11:11] <nats`> thanks to some solver calculating padstack is funky now
[11:14] <mikestir> I had my home lab in the loft for a while - that just doesn't work
[11:14] <mikestir> it's either freezing or uninhabitably hot all the time
[11:14] <jonsowman> pub
[11:15] <jonsowman> ignore
[11:23] <gonzo_> I used to have a loft workshop when I lives with the parents. boxed in an area and in extractors and a fan heater. Was still not much good
[11:23] <eroomde> just had an evacuation test
[11:23] <gonzo_> and the complaints aftre hours about bumping about up there
[11:23] <Darkside> eroomde: so, did you all di?
[11:23] <Darkside> die*
[11:24] <gonzo_> eroomde, we have similar every morning. you have to run around trying all the loos to find an unoccupied one
[11:24] <Darkside> bahaha
[11:24] <eroomde> i am still alive
[11:25] <eroomde> note the exacuate alarm noise
[11:25] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4iqwf2gcyzhjxem/2014-01-20%2011.13.25.mp4
[11:25] <gonzo_> we must be due one soon, as I had to do a fire marshall course last week and have updated lists
[11:25] <Darkside> eroomde: what about it?
[11:26] <eroomde> it's from star trek
[11:26] <Darkside> lol really
[11:26] <eroomde> yes
[11:26] <Darkside> who set that up
[11:26] <eroomde> star trek's going to battle stations sound
[11:26] <gonzo_> an engineer I bet
[11:26] <eroomde> their chief engineer, who is a trekkie
[11:27] <Darkside> nice
[11:27] <gonzo_> soem of our machines here go on a soak test rack. someone changed the test sw image so that instead of beeping eevery cycle, they bleated.
[11:28] <gonzo_> when there are 50 units running, it was difficult to keep your face straight
[11:28] <Darkside> haha
[11:28] <Darkside> nice
[11:29] <fsphil> nice morning for it eroomde
[11:29] <eroomde> yes it's lovely here
[11:29] <eroomde> very still and crisp
[11:29] <fsphil> actually not too bad here from what I can see of it
[11:30] <eroomde> the air is clean
[11:30] <eroomde> unlike if the simulated MON dump had actually happened
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[11:31] <eroomde> MON being (mostly) N2O4
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[11:35] <Darkside> so what is a MON dump?
[11:35] <Darkside> and why would it occur
[11:36] <eroomde> it's when all the oxidiser vents
[11:36] <eroomde> it would occur if something really bad happened
[11:37] <eroomde> that's slightly circular. what i mean is that if it happened, it would be really bad
[11:37] <eroomde> but there is some conceivable scenario - pressure releif burst disks going, or all the valves failing open and it vents out of the engine, or whatever
[11:40] <eroomde> if that happened with conjunction with bad prevailing winds, we evacuate
[11:41] <Darkside> ok
[11:41] <eroomde> you can see MON, it's an orange cloud which looks deeply unpleasant
[11:41] <eroomde> hydrazine you can't see but it smells like amonnia
[11:42] <Darkside> right
[11:42] <x-f> if you can smell it, it's too late anyway?
[11:43] <eroomde> i hope not as i have smelled it lots of times
[11:43] <eroomde> it's very smelly even in low concentrations]
[11:44] <eroomde> if they're testing and i go round to our firing bay you do sometimes get hit with it, shout 'oh f*ck!' and run upwind
[11:44] <eroomde> but we wear portabkle gas sensors now
[11:44] <eroomde> you can smell it before the sensor alarm goes off to signify a dangerous level, though
[11:45] <Hix> speaking of chemicals http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/1nWq1E
[11:45] <Hix> some pretty cool gifs there
[11:45] <x-f> oh good, i just know it is very, very toxic
[11:45] <Hix> snake venom meets blood is pretty alarming
[11:45] <eroomde> it's very toxic yes
[11:45] <eroomde> in the 50s in the states all the engineers used it to buff up the chromewrok on their cars
[11:46] <eroomde> i'm really not that scared of it though as compared to MON
[11:46] <eroomde> that dissolves your lungs
[11:47] <eroomde> whereas hydrazine is like ammonia - just smells terrible long before it'll hurt you
[11:49] <eroomde> nice gifs hix
[11:55] <mfa298> Dehydration of sugar in sulfuric acid looks like it should be a movie special effect (probably in something like Alien)
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[11:57] <x-f> mfa298, see burning ammonium dichromate on page 1
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[11:58] <Hix> Belousov–Zhabotinsky reaction is pretty cool to stare at
[11:59] <mfa298> x-f: I just saw that, there's also a similar one at the bottom of page 2
[11:59] <fsphil> oh wow, those are cool
[12:01] <eroomde> any word from rosetta yet?
[12:01] <fsphil> won't know for a while longer
[12:01] <fsphil> still warming up
[12:01] <fsphil> hopefully
[12:01] <fsphil> it could also still be asleep
[12:02] <fsphil> or not even there
[12:02] <eroomde> de aliens
[12:03] <eroomde> http://www.theguardian.com/science/across-the-universe/2014/jan/20/rosetta-comet-chasing-spacecraft-wakes-up-esa-live-blog
[12:06] <eroomde> fsphil: gonna send off the IQ modulator pcb tomorrow
[12:06] <eroomde> should get them back next week
[12:06] <fsphil> oh ta
[12:07] <fsphil> any changes to the board?
[12:07] <eroomde> not atm but will have another look this eve
[12:08] <eroomde> it's nice that sending 0101010101010101 as a tune-in is pretty universal
[12:09] <eroomde> even ethernet sends 7 lots of 0x55 to start a frame
[12:10] <fsphil> I used 0x55 as the first byte in the ssdv packet, before realising it was a bad choice for rtty
[12:12] <gonzo_> nulls are ideal for async stop-start
[12:12] <fsphil> yea
[12:12] <fsphil> two of them. can't mistake where the start bit is
[12:13] <gonzo_> yep, I calced same
[12:13] <fsphil> it's not a great system for faster data rate
[12:13] <gonzo_> so I use three
[12:14] <gonzo_> still difficult to convice prople of that thopugh.
[12:18] <gonzo_> another of my recuring rs485 battles is when people don't preamble a packet, and go straight into an stx after coming out ofb tristate
[12:23] <Hix> Tried my hand at baking bread for the first time last night. Turned out alright. Lunch http://i.imgur.com/XS88m9U.jpg spicy tomato and pepper soup with sun-dried tomato bread.
[12:24] <mfa298> that looks better than my previous attempts at making bread.
[12:25] <fsphil> I'm only good at eating bread
[12:25] <eroomde> nice
[12:25] <eroomde> i had a bread pahse
[12:25] <eroomde> and still make it if people ask]
[12:25] <eroomde> but the washing up puts me off
[12:26] <adamgreig> eroomde: i tried bread in my kitchenaid last night
[12:26] <adamgreig> it's kind of amazing how it mixes and kneads and you just pour in ingredients and turn on and then you have dough ready to shape and rise
[12:26] <adamgreig> not sure if it lost some magic though
[12:26] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nnfhtog0a6x9e9j/photo.JPG
[12:26] <eroomde> sourdough^
[12:27] <eroomde> well for some things like sourdough, to keep the rustic holiness you want to go more for stretching and folding gently than kneading
[12:27] <mfa298> In my attempts I did find kneading the dough can be quite theraputic. I think I then just got impacient waiting for it to prove/rise.
[12:27] <adamgreig> still it was good because I just wanted some fresh tasty crusty bread to serve with oil and vinegar as a quick starter, and certainly didn't have enough time to do it all by hand
[12:27] <adamgreig> yea my sourdoughs were all stretch and fold. this was just normal baker's yeast though
[12:27] <eroomde> croissants: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ix4ke7jiwa77sgn/croissants2.JPG
[12:27] <eroomde> adamgreig: do some brioche
[12:27] <adamgreig> came out fine, still nice bread, but lacks so much compared to a nice sourdough
[12:27] <fsphil> anyone here applied to be on the GBBO?
[12:27] <eroomde> working the butter in is vastly vastly easier with a mixer
[12:28] <eroomde> you can make the ultimate burger buns from brioche
[12:28] <adamgreig> oh i bet. should try that
[12:29] <adamgreig> had a fun little entirely-candlelit affair. in black tie.
[12:29] <eroomde> with any guests or just yourself?
[12:29] <adamgreig> two guests and the two of us
[12:30] <adamgreig> roast leg of lamb and bits, plus one guest brought (home made) chocolate fondants and we had them with the vanilla ice cream from before, it was great. plus cheese and port and so forth
[12:30] <adamgreig> but serving food and carving meat and slicing floury bread while in black tie is a bit delicate
[12:31] <adamgreig> luckily i have my black apron ;)
[12:33] <adamgreig> need to try something in the new casserole dish soon really
[12:33] <Hix> I think I may have overestimated the amount of bread and soup I needed for lunch. Man, I'm full now
[12:33] Action: Hix tries not to drift of into post lunch slumber at his desk
[12:34] <eroomde> bread really sorts you out
[12:34] <Hix> fine line between sorting you out and doing you in :)
[12:46] <gonzo_> a stew with dumplings
[12:48] <Lunar_LanderT> there just was a funny video on the ESA stream titled "What do you do Mondays at 10 am", and a guy from Paris said "Sleeping in my Anatomy Class"
[12:50] <eroomde> sounds funny
[12:50] <fsphil> gotta hand it to him
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[12:53] <Hix> cadaver laugh about that somehow
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[12:56] <SpeedEvil> He might miss important information about the ulnar nerve!
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[13:07] <fsphil> A sidesplitting class I'm sure
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[13:38] <mattbrejza> anyone know whether this is the correct notam form? http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=detail&id=4409
[13:39] <mattbrejza> its the only relevent form in this list: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?catid=33&pagetype=65&appid=11&mode=list&type=subcat&id=20
[14:05] <eroomde> just had the site decontamination procedure used in the 1970s at the rocket propulsion establishment explained to us by one of the original engineers who did it
[14:05] <eroomde> I quote:
[14:05] <eroomde> "well, if it looked a bit dodgy, we set fire to it"
[14:06] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[14:20] <eroomde> i have just been given a nice new bit of clothing too
[14:20] <eroomde> http://www.spservices.co.uk/images/products/verylarge/1304951775zz3296.jpg
[14:24] <nats`> wooowww so sexy !
[14:24] <nats`> very nice to take a girl back home :p
[14:24] <eroomde> i thought so
[14:24] <eroomde> swap the oxygen for chloroform
[14:25] <eroomde> bundle her into the boot
[14:26] <Hix> O can't remeber the last night out I had on Rohypnol
[14:26] <nats`> clever plan brain
[14:26] <nats`> !
[14:26] <nats`> but still not pinky proof :)
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[14:28] <Hix> Did anyone hear the UKIP shipping forecast following on from the outrageous coments the other day? https://soundcloud.com/nicholas-pegg/ukip-shipping-forecast
[14:28] <eroomde> yes
[14:28] <eroomde> was amusing
[14:29] <Hix> it was the work of a gifted man :)
[14:29] <eroomde> low intelligence, becoming little britain later
[14:30] <Hix> They even worked in Bongo-bongo land :D
[14:31] <fsphil> great response to it. I hope he was humiliated
[14:32] <Hix> He's been suspended - suppose they don't really want the idiots who have veered their way findin out what they are really like
[14:32] <Hix> *finding
[14:33] <fsphil> if they suspended every loon or idiot in UKIP there wouldn't be many left
[14:34] <Hix> s/many/any
[14:34] <Hix> ;p
[14:35] <fsphil> so there is hope
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[14:37] <Hix> ipynb and Udacity are a really good pairing. I'm slowly plodding along with some python again. Recursion is a bit of a tricky one to fulle get around. I'm sick of factorial tutorials though, wish there were some more varied ones
[14:38] <Hix> oh btw did anyone notice the http://earth.nullschool.net now has wind and temp information embedded in it?
[14:38] <eroomde> recursion clicks
[14:39] <Hix> i meant pressure - it always had wind - so to speak.
[14:39] <eroomde> def foo: if some end condition, return foo, else foo(something-1)
[14:39] <eroomde> er not return foo!
[14:39] <eroomde> i used foo twice forgetting i'd called the function foo
[14:39] <eroomde> well that was pedagogically stunning as an example
[14:39] <Hix> great for mathematical purposes but more difficult for string handling and tuples
[14:39] <eroomde> i hope you understand it completely now
[14:40] <Hix> alles klaar ;p
[14:40] <eroomde> recommend SICP if you want another introduction
[14:40] <Hix> that - http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/
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[14:43] <eroomde> yes
[14:43] <eroomde> it is conservatively touted as the best introduction to CS ever written, ever
[14:44] <Hix> cheers, though just remembered this: Learning Python, Fifth Edition - https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8vlf8cbkua57ok/Learning%20Python%2C%205th%20Edition.pdf
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[14:52] <Vostok> www.learnpythonthehardway.org :)
[14:53] <eroomde> good for absolute beginners
[14:53] <eroomde> if not a beginner then the pace of it might be slow enough to cause you to self-harm
[14:55] <Hix> it does drag somewhat - to be honest the Udacity CS101 is really good, well paced, well thought out videos and lots of homework as extras. all documented in pdf too
[15:04] <mfa298> For Python (and some other languages) I've found Codeacademy to be reasonable if you have some prior knowledge of programming (although I'm only half way through their python course at the moment)
[15:05] <nats`> Vostok I love the "people knowing everything love lisp"
[15:05] <nats`> :D
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[15:10] <Hix> hmm codeacademy looks like another useful resource mfa298. I figure it's best to do a few different courses, to spread out the styles of teaching, so as to get as greater grounding
[15:17] <mfa298> or at least try out a few and find out which suits your style or learning.
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[15:23] <Hix> Udacity seems to suit really well, codeacademy seems like a good backup lpthw seems a little slow. I'm also trying to create my own lottery results checking scraper whilst going through things online. real projects help focue
[15:25] <Hix> hmm that last word sounds a bit "informal" *focus
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[16:14] <eroomde> misread a datasheet subtitle as 'pooping data off the stack'
[16:14] <daveake> try not to make a smelly heap
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[16:16] <eroomde> [some kind of pun based on barrel-shit]
[16:16] <Hix> could end up in a massive memory dump
[16:16] <eroomde> just after a seg-fart
[16:17] <Hix> as long as the Unary tract is clear
[16:18] <Hix> I suppose you don't really want to cache it do you
[16:18] Nick change: WillTablet -> Ofcom
[16:19] <Ofcom> Bleh idc about ham radio
[16:19] Nick change: Ofcom -> WillTablet
[16:19] <eroomde> ?
[16:19] <eroomde> infact don't take that as an invitation to talk
[16:20] <Hix> heh
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[16:29] <UpuWork> lol
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[16:34] <WillTablet> eroomde: bleh idk why I did it either
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[17:03] <eroomde> where does he buy the red-and-white striped pendants
[17:03] <eroomde> that's a cryptic question
[17:05] <fsphil> ebay
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[17:07] <Adam012> Good evening!
[17:08] <fsphil> howdy
[17:08] <Adam012> Hi, h
[17:09] <Adam012> Hi fsphil
[17:09] <Adam012> Still getting the hang of typing on a tablet.
[17:10] <Adam012> Have you ever constructed a yagi antenna?
[17:10] <fsphil> sorta
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[17:10] <Adam012> Sorta?
[17:10] <eroomde> yes
[17:10] <fsphil> it was made from speaker wire, cardboard and sellotape
[17:12] <fsphil> (this was a long time ago)
[17:13] <eroomde> tcpdump is the handiwork of god
[17:13] <fsphil> hah
[17:13] <fsphil> it and wireshark
[17:13] <eroomde> it's terrifyingly powerful
[17:14] <fsphil> the DSO of networking
[17:14] <eroomde> yeah
[17:15] <eroomde> that's exactly right
[17:16] <nats`> I have a preference for wireshark because with the good dissector you can analyze whatever you want :)
[17:16] <eroomde> Adam012: to reply to your univited pm, there are two distinct ways, either they're conductively attached or isolatedly attached
[17:16] <eroomde> (electrically)
[17:16] <fsphil> they make a good pair nats`
[17:16] <fsphil> tcpdump to gather the data
[17:16] <eroomde> which one affects all the geometry of the yagi, i.e. it's a decision you have to make at the design stage
[17:16] <fsphil> wireshark to analyse it
[17:16] <nats`> yep tcpdump is good for headless machine
[17:17] <mfa298> wireshark made life so much easier when it appeared (back when it was called ethereal)
[17:17] <nats`> but tcpdump on itself is hard to use because analysing packet is boring as hell
[17:17] <eroomde> i quite like it
[17:17] <eroomde> so many flags
[17:17] <eroomde> and a nice grammar to construct quite specific queries
[17:17] <WillTablet> Could someone open up all the packets on an open WiFi network even if it required logging in to use?
[17:18] <eroomde> give me everything from this port on that ip that's got the evil bit set, and show me the hex and the ascii
[17:18] <mfa298> learning the more interesting tcpdump syntax becomes more interesting when you're dealing with 1gbit and faster links
[17:18] <nats`> yep Willdude123
[17:18] <nats`> yep WillTablet
[17:18] <eroomde> but yes for quantities of data i'd definitely like wireshark
[17:19] <WillTablet> Scary
[17:19] <nats`> it reminds me the day I did my first sniffer with pcap lib under freebsd
[17:19] <nats`> :)
[17:19] <DL1SGP1> heh nats`
[17:19] <eroomde> i'm just using it as a debugger for a datalogger
[17:19] <eroomde> atm
[17:19] <nats`> hi DL1SGP1
[17:19] <DL1SGP1> salut nats` :)
[17:19] <mfa298> if you're stupid enough to run an open (or even WEP secured) wifi network you pretty much deserve anything you get.
[17:19] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
[17:20] <nats`> shhhh mfa298 don't say that that's handy when not at home :p
[17:20] <nats`> the more there are the more I can have a good connection
[17:20] <DL1SGP> indeed :D
[17:20] <DL1SGP> WPS is fun as well
[17:20] <nats`> anyway WillTablet just use a proxy
[17:20] <nats`> socks one is easy to use
[17:21] <eroomde> i use socks for cafe wifi
[17:21] <nats`> that's a good practice
[17:21] <nats`> fake SSL is so easy now
[17:21] <nats`> you don't take care and click accept certificate where you shouldn't :)
[17:22] <Adam012> For ease of construction I'm happy to isolate the rods from the boom (it's also part of my design). What did you use to connect your rods to your boom eroomde?
[17:22] <nats`> Adam012 put a plastic ring around a screw in the boom hole
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[17:25] <adamgreig> superglue
[17:25] <adamgreig> I now have my laptop and phone always-on VPN to my server
[17:25] <adamgreig> via ipsec and client certs
[17:25] <adamgreig> so my phone carrier and hotel wifi and cafe wifi and friend's wifi and work wifi can't see any of that data
[17:26] <adamgreig> but my server company can see it all
[17:26] <adamgreig> tradeoffs
[17:28] <nats`> have to go pcb are waiting for me I finally got my VCTCXO :)
[17:28] <WillTablet> Are there any good open source PCB tools?
[17:28] <adamgreig> there are no good pcb tools
[17:28] <adamgreig> (kicad)
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[17:30] <eroomde> Adam012: i used metal-to-metal contact
[17:30] <eroomde> with screws
[17:30] <eroomde> so can't help you
[17:31] <Adam012> The boom is an aluminium tube (square cross section) and the rods are simple aluminium (I can get 3-6mm diameter rods). I though there might be some kind of rubber grommet I could use or a plastic clip that screwed to the boom and held the rod
[17:32] <eroomde> a grommet would work
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[17:37] <Adam012> I wondered whether I could buy them on the high street (get advice in the shop) or whether I'd have to order online.
[17:37] <x-f> waiting for signal from Rosetta - http://www.livestream.com/eurospaceagency
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[17:41] <daveake> cheers x-f was wondering where I could sit and watch and wait :)
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[17:42] <SpeedEvil> Is that a waterfall I spy?
[17:42] <x-f> not very exciting at the moment, yes :)
[17:42] <daveake> They're looking tense :/
[17:42] <daveake> Yes I've seen more interesting waterfalls :)
[17:43] <daveake> We just need for one of Leo's flights to stray in front of the dish :p
[17:43] <daveake> blip .... blip ... blip ...
[17:45] <SpeedEvil> How do we tell if it's hopeless? They start weeping?
[17:47] <daveake> The audio cuts to "Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life"
[17:47] <craag> lol
[17:47] <navrac_work> lets be honest - if it wasn't there by 31 mins past its unlikely to magically appear late
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[17:47] <SpeedEvil> Is that how long it's been afterETA?
[17:48] <eroomde> they were heating it up
[17:48] <daveake> Well AIUI it has to do various tasks in sequence each of which doesn't have a fixed timescale ... warming up, finding the Earth ...
[17:48] <Adam012> Given that its been in flight for 8 years, in planning for more and that several members of the original teams have passed on I'd expect a wailing and a nashing of teeth should it fail.
[17:48] <x-f> there are four clocks onboard and, if the main one has driffted two hours away, it will be ignored
[17:48] <eroomde> so it could conceivable have a decent amount of uncertainty on the heat-up time
[17:48] <SpeedEvil> I was wondering about that - if it's not pointed - I can see a _large_ uncertainty.
[17:48] <eroomde> it has to poiunt itself
[17:48] <eroomde> that's one of the jobs]
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> I guess it goes to sleep because it can't point without using propellant.
[17:49] <eroomde> no audio?
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> As I thought it had solar panels
[17:49] <SpeedEvil> No audio
[17:49] <Hix> struggling with a basic function concept here. "set_range()" if given three arguments, I get a traceback telling me it yakes no arguments yet 3 are given i.e set_range(15,7,3) what am i missing here?
[17:49] <eroomde> it went to sleep because it went beyond jupiter's orbit
[17:49] <navrac_work> maybe it hit the snooze button
[17:49] <daveake> Yes solar but they power-saved when a long way from the sun
[17:49] <eroomde> solar panels didn't produce enough to do anything useful
[17:49] <x-f> it has a low gain antenna too, so, even if it fails to point itself to Earth, they still have a chance to pick up the signal using NASAs dish and amp
[17:50] <daveake> *UpuWork prepares for large HABAmp order
[17:51] <Hix> are they on ISM band?
[17:51] <daveake> I'm just joking
[17:51] <Hix> I assumed but thought they may well be
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[17:52] <adamgreig> Hix: uhm?
[17:52] <adamgreig> it sounds like you have
[17:52] <adamgreig> def set_range(): whatever
[17:52] <adamgreig> and are calling it like, set_range(1, 2, 3)
[17:53] <daveake> 8421.873 MHz
[17:53] <adamgreig> which is passing it three arguments when it should take none
[17:54] <Hix> how do you account for something that could take any munber of arguments without specifically declaring how many arguments there should be then?
[17:54] <daveake> OK it's actually 8421.790123MHz but doppler
[17:54] <daveake> http://www.uhf-satcom.com/amateurdsn/rosetta/
[17:54] <navrac_work> my funcube doesnt go that high...
[17:54] <Hix> is there much stuff that does go to nearly 9GHz
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[17:55] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[17:55] <adamgreig> Hix: *args
[17:55] <adamgreig> as in, def f(*args): print args[2]
[17:55] <navrac_work> I dont think my watson would be much use either
[17:56] <Hix> ah oki, cheers adamgreig
[17:56] <adamgreig> it will get a list named args (you could just do f(*whatever) or f(a, b, *leftovers, c=12) too)
[17:56] <adamgreig> the list is variable length
[17:56] <adamgreig> see also **kwargs, for keyword args
[17:56] <adamgreig> def f(*args, **kwargs) is a full function def that can take whatever
[17:56] <adamgreig> args will take the first positional arguments and kwargs all the named arguments (it's a dict)
[17:56] <Hix> excellent, thx. was trawling without really knowing what to research
[17:57] <x-f> "seven hours of terror"
[17:58] <Hix> on that note - time to leave work - not that learning python is actually work, but hey, if they give me nothing then what am i to do. laters all :)
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[17:58] Nick change: Hix -> Hix-AFK
[17:59] <Adam012> Daveake did you build a yagi?
[18:00] <daveake> nope
[18:00] <daveake> It's the wrong side of my time vs money saved line
[18:01] <eroomde> http://www.qsl.net/9a4qv/Antenna_insulators.htm
[18:01] <daveake> Also less interesting than plenty of other things I'd actually like to do
[18:04] <cuddykid> clearly esa could've done with a bit of Upu battery magic when building rosetta
[18:05] <eroomde> like watching a spectrum of band-limited white noise
[18:05] <daveake> If this Rosetta thing was me trying to pick up a HAB, by now I'd be outside checking my aerial is plugged in :p
[18:05] <cuddykid> haha yes
[18:05] <daveake> that and a fresh PP3 on the habamp
[18:06] <cuddykid> might just be the NASA guys trolling them as they're using their 70cm dish in california right?
[18:06] <navrac_work> I'd nip out for a ciggy, things always happen when I leave the room for one
[18:06] <daveake> 70m dish
[18:06] <cuddykid> more like it
[18:07] <navrac_work> could be the problem.. '[oh you wanted to borrow the 70m dish'
[18:07] <bertrik> feels a bit like trying to receive Leo's once-in-5-minutes DominoEx signals while you're still slightly out of range
[18:07] <daveake> It's like being in the car all day. Stop for petrol for 5 mins and the phone rings while you're gone, for the only time that day
[18:09] <eroomde> my colleague has just started signing, with a monty-python-come-edith-piaf french accent, 'non, rein de carrier'
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> http://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/starsong.png?w=580&h=389
[18:09] <daveake> And I thought the Apollo 13 16-minute blackout went on forever
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: haha
[18:10] <daveake> er, 6-minute
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:10] <eroomde> maybe the cursor is there to draw it in with ms paint
[18:11] <navrac_work> maybe its on daylight saving
[18:12] <daveake> I wonder how many in that room really really really need to go to the loo
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[18:12] <cuddykid> how do the 'star searchers' work on it? Is it visual/camera based?!
[18:13] <navrac_work> maybe thats why the sound is off -the hiss of the radio sounds too much like the sea
[18:14] <bertrik> watching the watchers ...
[18:14] <daveake> 4 waterfalls
[18:14] <daveake> someone's bored
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[18:15] <eroomde> cuddykid: yes
[18:15] <cuddykid> snazzy
[18:17] <x-f> spike
[18:17] <x-f> !
[18:17] <daveake> is that a little peak?
[18:17] <cuddykid> looks like it
[18:18] <cuddykid> woo
[18:18] <daveake> need moar powwerrr
[18:18] <DL1SGP> yeap peaks seen :)
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> woo
[18:18] <eroomde> phew
[18:18] <mattbrejza> i hope they now open flidigi to decode it
[18:18] <daveake> sound on now lol
[18:18] <cuddykid> now they all run to the loo
[18:18] <Adam012> Is it Rosetta or the shredder in the next room?
[18:18] <daveake> lol
[18:18] <daveake> It's Leo trolling them
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> Ok - who has the sig-gen and yagi out.
[18:19] <mattbrejza> bearing in mind how many of leo's balloons are mia, seems reasonable that one might fly over their dish
[18:19] <SpeedEvil> Ok - that's a nice unambiguous signal.
[18:19] <eroomde> some vicious nerd in a light aeroplane with a siggen
[18:20] <x-f> now they need to send a command back to it soon otherwise Rosetta will hit the snooze button for another seven hours
[18:20] <eroomde> hopefully no-one forgets
[18:21] <cuddykid> haha
[18:21] <cuddykid> 'vicious nerd' lol
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[18:22] <eroomde> fsphil: sent the board off
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[18:24] <DL1SGP> that lady that does the moderation on their show sure makes sure that nobody crashes into her by that colorful costume
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[18:44] <SpeedEvil> Isn't science wonderful.
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> 'http://www.google.com/patents/US2967099
[18:44] <SpeedEvil> This invention relates to new compositions adapted for use in a novel method of actuating land mines buried beneath the surface of the ground. More particularly the invention concerns foam producing compositions capable of being formed into a blanket of explosive foam over designated areas of terrain, as for example enemy mine fields and the like, and which may be detonated by conventional means
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[18:59] <fsphil> ah, rosetta lives
[19:01] <Upu> its all open source eroomde thats cheating :)
[19:02] <Upu> it does indeed
[19:03] <eroomde> Upu: White Rabbit?
[19:03] <Upu> y
[19:03] <eroomde> sure, it's CERN
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[19:03] <eroomde> everything they do is open hardware
[19:03] <eroomde> still not mega complicated, conceptually
[19:04] <fsphil> hopefully Rosetta handles waking up better than I do
[19:04] <eroomde> it woke up about an hour late
[19:04] <Willdude123> That moment when you were pinged and you can't find when you were pinged
[19:04] <eroomde> '/lastlog Willdude123'
[19:04] <Willdude123> Oops got myself banned on the RSGB firewall
[19:04] Nick change: number10_ -> number10
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> [17:18:22] <nats`> yep Willdude123
[19:05] <eroomde> how did you manage that?
[19:05] <Willdude123> Their system is weird in that it's not accepting my log in sometimes. I kept trying it and might've held down enter too long
[19:06] <eroomde> i wouldn't assume to much intelligence on the part of the rsgb website
[19:06] Action: SpeedEvil again reads that as RSPB.
[19:07] <LazyLeopard> Hmmm... bird-brained?
[19:07] <eroomde> i don't think there are many birds in the RSGB
[19:07] <Willdude123> Well, emailed them nonetheless
[19:08] <Willdude123> Permission to use a minor expletive to describe the RSGB site?
[19:08] <eroomde> no
[19:08] <Willdude123> OK
[19:08] <Upu> seconded
[19:09] <Willdude123> It's err. Bad shall we say
[19:09] <LazyLeopard> Fallen foul of the "members only" bit?
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[19:09] <DL7AD_mobile> Evening
[19:09] <Upu> evening Sven
[19:10] <fsphil> I think I was in the members-only bit once
[19:10] <craag> Willdude123: A tip, it's easier to google for what you want than try to navigate..
[19:10] <LazyLeopard> Oops. SRCC meeting tonight. Better get myself moving...
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[19:11] <Willdude123> Cannot find the new amateurs electronic newsletter
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[19:22] <Willdude123> craag: just read the CQTV issue with you mentioned
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[19:26] <craag> Willdude123: Oh yeah, anything you find interesting in there?
[19:26] Adam012 (~androirc@ left irc: Quit: thanks alld
[19:27] <Willdude123> craag: to be honest
[19:27] <Willdude123> It's way too confusing
[19:29] <craag> I thought that might be the answer
[19:29] <craag> It tries to hit a wide range of audience
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[19:30] <craag> So there are articles in there that confuse the majority of the readers
[19:30] <steve_2e0vet> in eagle is there a way of seeing if all the grounds are connected to each other
[19:30] <craag> And although the idea is that there is a range, the guys at the lower end don't tend to be the ones who write articles!
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[19:32] <chrisstubbs> steve_2e0vet, I think you can use the "see" tool
[19:32] Action: chrisstubbs opens eagle
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[19:33] <chrisstubbs> Yes if you click the ground net it should highlight everything on it
[19:33] <steve_2e0vet> chrisstubbs: tried that, problem is all the GND have different names GND2,GND3 etc... for VCC i have created tags/labels and the eye tool works for them
[19:34] <chrisstubbs> you might have to click a wire instead of the ground symbol to select its net
[19:34] <steve_2e0vet> ok i will try that
[19:35] Nick change: kuldeepdhaka_ -> kuldeepdhaka
[19:35] <steve_2e0vet> am i ok defining VCC the way i have done here http://imgur.com/htTZsr0
[19:35] <steve_2e0vet> f so i might do the GND's the same
[19:35] <Maxell> Getting ready for 50sat
[19:36] <Upu> steve_2e0vet type name
[19:36] <Upu> clicl on a network that you want to change
[19:36] <Upu> and type GND
[19:37] <steve_2e0vet> it only seems to work if i click on the wire note the GND icon is that correct
[19:41] <chrisstubbs> Yes, you want to rename the nets so they are all GND, not change the name of the components
[19:41] <steve_2e0vet> thanks chris
[19:42] <chrisstubbs> :) are you going to get this board made?
[19:42] <steve_2e0vet> lmao
[19:42] <steve_2e0vet> mate ive been so busy this last 2-3 months
[19:42] <steve_2e0vet> ive started from scratch again - have you done anymore tutorials
[19:43] <chrisstubbs> Afraid not :(
[19:44] <chrisstubbs> I do now have a decent microphone
[19:46] <steve_2e0vet> crack on then!!
[19:46] <steve_2e0vet> i looked for your tutorial on YT the other day but couldnt find it
[19:46] <steve_2e0vet> so had to settle for a yank
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[19:55] <Maxell> damnit 50 sat
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[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:59] <Lunar_Lander> nice to see that Rosetta is activated
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[19:59] Nick change: Gadget-Mac_ -> Gadget-Mac
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[20:03] <SpeedEvil> Still some time till fun science data though
[20:04] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> Just a couple of years till New Horizons
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> And pluto
[20:09] <SpeedEvil> Though this year I'm loking forward to Grasshopper 2 and Falcon Heavvy - amongst other things.
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> Oh - and the start of the extended KEpler mission
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> yeah July 2015
[20:12] <Lunar_Lander> for Pluto
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> there is a lot coming up, even on the planned side
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> the Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter by ESA
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> or Bepi-Colombo for Mercury
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> sad they dropped the Lander
[20:13] <Lunar_Lander> and I wonder if NASA will build that Uranus Orbiter they discussed last year
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[20:25] Nick change: stilldavid_ -> stilldavid
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[20:27] <steve_2e0vet> does VCC go to pins 7,8, & 9 on ublox http://imgur.com/htTZsr0
[20:29] <SpeedEvil> And - telemetry from rosetta.
[20:30] <Lunar_Lander> yes!
[20:31] <Upu> yes steve_2e0vet but put a decoupling cap up there
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[20:32] <steve_2e0vet> Upu: when you say decoupling do you mean 100nf VCC -> GND
[20:32] <Upu> yes I know its there but its in the wrong place
[20:32] <Upu> being pedantic
[20:32] <steve_2e0vet> no thats fine, i'm learning
[20:33] <steve_2e0vet> which one is in the wrong place?
[20:33] <Upu> C1
[20:34] <Upu> I would put it up by 7,8 and 9 to remind you thats where it needs to go on the PCB
[20:38] <steve_2e0vet> Upu: like this? http://imgur.com/dsFpnjr
[20:39] <Upu> thats the one
[20:39] <steve_2e0vet> cheers
[20:39] <steve_2e0vet> any tips on board layout
[20:40] <steve_2e0vet> i.e what not to place where
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[20:40] <ibanezmatt13> I think chrisstubbs did a good video on the board layout explaining about RF, vias, and how close to place certain caps etc.
[20:43] <steve_2e0vet> i still dont understand vias, i was hoping once i place the componets eagle would sort out the rest
[20:44] <ibanezmatt13> well there is autoroute available, but most people here will strongly advise manually routing it yourself. I can give a little help if you wish
[20:44] <chrisstubbs> Vias link between layers
[20:45] <chrisstubbs> For example if you have a ground pour accross the back of your board, you can put a via right next to where you need to place a ground on the top layer and route to it
[20:46] <chrisstubbs> and if your top layer is getting a bit crouded, you can use vias to tunnel under traces on the top
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[21:13] <steve_2e0vet> i sort of understand, thanks ibanezmatt13
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> cool
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> http://ukseds.org/activities/projects/bristol-rockoon/
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> wow
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> thats somewhat ambitious
[21:19] <steve_2e0vet> would this work with for the board or are things too close
[21:19] <steve_2e0vet> http://imgur.com/v8pWKkO
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[21:20] <ibanezmatt13> You want the SMA generally to be as close to the NTX2 RFOUT pins as possible, ideally
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[21:22] <steve_2e0vet> looking at chris's video i guess i have to route all the air wires as well
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> if you hit the ratsnest button (green cross looking thing in the toolbox on the left) it'll clean those air wires up a little
[21:22] <ibanezmatt13> but yes, each air wire connection will have to be routed
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[21:30] <ibanezmatt13> crikey, I've just realised the three A levels I depend on getting A's or above in the hope of getting to a good uni are maths, further maths and physics :o
[21:31] Action: ibanezmatt13 realises he may end up working at the golden arches... :P
[21:32] <chrisstubbs> steve_2e0vet, are you not using a crystal with the avr?
[21:32] <eroomde> ibanezmatt13: yep!
[21:32] <eroomde> not enough people do maths, furthermaths and physics
[21:32] <ibanezmatt13> eroomde it's weird. One day I'm jumping around really confident, the next day I'm doubting my very existence
[21:33] <daveake> who said that?
[21:33] <steve_2e0vet> chrisstubbs: i wasnt, wasnt sure that i needed one
[21:33] <Upu> its called being a teenager don't worry you generally grow out of it
[21:33] <daveake> but yes do 2 maths and physics
[21:33] <ibanezmatt13> I will, definitely. Don't worry :)
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> ibanezmatt13: Don't worry. We're all just bags of impure water with illusions of selfhood in the end.
[21:34] <ibanezmatt13> I've never heard it put like that before, that's nice SpeedEvil :P
[21:34] <fsphil> a side effect of DNA
[21:34] <chrisstubbs> steve_2e0vet, apparently the avr's built in clock does not do to well in the cold
[21:35] <ibanezmatt13> lol, back to the rocket predictor...
[21:35] <daveake> Is that why Rosetta took so long to beep?
[21:35] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[21:36] <fsphil> it spend an hour trying to boot from floppy
[21:36] <daveake> Now it's got 2-way comms it'll be downloading 63 updates
[21:36] <fsphil> there won't be much from it now for a while, it still has very little power
[21:36] <fsphil> hah
[21:37] <fsphil> they did mention software updates actually :)
[21:37] <daveake> oh dear :/
[21:37] <eroomde> it's a scary old job, that
[21:38] <eroomde> the amount of testing you have to do
[21:38] <daveake> yup
[21:38] <fsphil> a software update killed one of the viking landers
[21:39] <mfa298> long way to travel if it needs the three finger salute windows often needs.
[21:39] <daveake> marred it
[21:39] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, the thing about the antenna turning away from earth?
[21:39] <fsphil> Lunar_Lander: yea
[21:40] <daveake> oops
[21:40] <ibanezmatt13> mfa298: one or two finger salute depending on your mood...
[21:40] <daveake> I thought it was bad enough when I changed the IP address on a remote machine, thus preventing me having access to it
[21:40] <fsphil> the antenna data was overwritten by mistake
[21:41] <fsphil> all the current landers have low gain antennas that could be used instead
[21:42] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[21:43] <mfa298> just changing addresses on remote machines !?!, even more fun when you change the uplink address on a remote router hoping you got everything right so it reconnects when you change the local end.
[21:43] <eroomde> yes the dual antennas and watchdogs and safemodes are a very good thing
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[21:44] <cm13g09> mfa298: I've done that
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[22:15] <iain_g4sgx> Evening peeps. Well I got the step-up working on my proto and was about to consider it done when something happened. Sudden resets due to stack overflow or memory page fault seemingly randomly every few minutes. Will be fun debugging that. Luckily the only code I've added recently was the Si-4032 code so i know where to start.
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[22:18] <eroomde> joy
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[22:19] <Babs_> hey eroomde - can i ask a quick eagle question?
[22:20] <WillTablet> What is Rosetta?
[22:20] <ibanezmatt13> a satellite in deep space that's heopfully going to land on a comet
[22:21] <Upu> Just ask Babs :)
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[22:21] <daveake> I think he wants to ask eroomde :p
[22:21] <Upu> Evening Bill
[22:21] <Babs_> thanks Upu - my politeness gets the better of me! - i'm trying to put a common label on my circuit diagram
[22:21] <Babs_> the one that looks like a luggage tag
[22:22] <Upu> ok
[22:22] <Babs_> so i click on the abc
[22:22] <Babs_> thang
[22:22] <Babs_> and then the luggage tag comes up at the top
[22:22] <Upu> yep
[22:22] <wb8elk_> Hi Anthony and all
[22:22] <Babs_> how do i put it on my circuit?
[22:22] <WillTablet> Ping Babs
[22:22] <Babs_> daveake you are a stirrer
[22:22] <WillTablet> What's Rosetta?
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[22:22] <WillTablet> daveake: no
[22:22] <Upu> click on the network you want to put it on
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[22:22] <WillTablet> Anyone can answer if they widh
[22:23] <Upu> Willdude123 you were answered
[22:23] <Babs_> WillTablet - its been asleep for 3 years because it is so far away from earth that its solar panels wouldn't provide it enough power, now its closer to the sun its automatically woken up and got in touch
[22:23] <Babs_> on wikipedia
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[22:23] <Upu> got it Babs or do you need a quick demo ?
[22:24] <WillTablet> Upu: ah yes I see
[22:25] <Babs_> hey upu - no, got it working thanks
[22:25] <Upu> nps
[22:25] <Babs_> the mistake i was making was to try and connect it straight to a pin
[22:25] <Upu> no just the network
[22:25] <Upu> and size 0.05 seems to be better
[22:25] <Upu> its what I use on mine
[22:26] <Babs_> i am totally confused about the sizing thing
[22:27] <Upu> don't worry about it
[22:27] <Babs_> but it is slowly coming together i think http://imgur.com/oLqwrHL
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[22:28] <Upu> yup, pins 7, 8 and 9 all to VCC and put a decoupling cap on there
[22:28] <Upu> ah still some wiring to do
[22:29] <Babs_> yes, i'm only part way through
[22:29] <Upu> nps
[22:29] <Babs_> but i've got the basics of how to draw, call up components etc.
[22:29] <Babs_> its like powerpoint with electricity
[22:29] <Upu> lol
[22:29] <Babs_> but the clipart is better and more functional
[22:29] <Upu> just :)
[22:30] <Babs_> actually this is totally the most useful thing evah https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ou02iv0qlzs3jf7/fkocFJUMhn/atmega328qtfp.pdf
[22:30] <Upu> yes I saw that
[22:30] <Babs_> which, ironically, is I think drawn in powerpoint
[22:30] <Upu> its even more useful when it comes to lay out
[22:30] <Upu> right I'm off night all
[22:30] <ibanezmatt13> gn
[22:30] <Babs_> so i've got that, your ntx2 rtty guide, your gps guide and a couple of pointers on where to put the crystal
[22:30] <DL7AD_mobile> Gn upu
[22:30] <Babs_> cheers upu
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[22:34] <WillTablet> This is odd
[22:34] <WillTablet> This book says d star is an open standard
[22:34] <WillTablet> Its not is it?
[22:35] <craag> It is
[22:35] <craag> But the audio codec used is not
[22:36] <WillTablet> Rigght
[22:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://tinyurl.com/37xyfrj
[22:37] <WillTablet> I love abba
[22:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> But you don't like to pay for audio codecs :-(
[22:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> @ £250 a throw last time I checked!
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[22:39] <craag> The black box chip itself is about 40 quid iirc
[22:40] <Geoff-G8DHE> I think the £250 was for a single USB attached codec module
[22:41] <Geoff-G8DHE> but it was a while ago, when I decided I wasn't going to play that game!
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[22:42] <WillTablet> Yup
[22:45] <ibanezmatt13> night all
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[23:49] <steve_2e0vet> why do I keep getting F/B annotation has been severed in eagle
[23:50] <SiC-> have you got both the pcb and schematic open?
[23:50] <SiC-> you need to keep both open
[23:50] <steve_2e0vet> yes
[23:50] <SiC-> if you close one at one point and make a change, you need to undo that change
[23:50] <SiC-> before it will relink
[23:50] <steve_2e0vet> just saved and closed
[00:00] --- Tue Jan 21 2014