highaltitude.log.20140118

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[00:35] <WillTablet> :-P
[00:36] <WillTablet> This is really really weird. I think I may be going slightly manic. I had an idea about how I could use an arduino in a history project that I won't even be set until next year
[00:37] <WillTablet> Though it is a good idea
[00:37] <WillTablet> Timeline of presidents, LED lights up at each one or when you press a button and an audio clip is played
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> http://dx.com/p/a13-7-0-capacitive-screen-android-4-0-tablet-pc-w-tf-wi-fi-camera-g-sensor-sky-blue-158651
[00:40] <SpeedEvil> - kind of silly
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[02:53] <vk3vcl-p> Any PSB6 Team on yet?
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[04:20] <cats7896> Hi
[04:39] <vk3vcl-p> SSTV images for PSB show the payload aloft.. does anyone have any news?
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[04:45] <vk3ohm> exit
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[04:57] <vk3vcl-p> PSB 6 Giood decode
[04:58] <vk3vcl-p> $$PSB,358,04:57:49,-37.4524,143.8914,1136,7.92,6,3,63.5,63.5,3287,0_0_0*D6D5
[05:08] <adwiens> nice!
[05:23] <adwiens> chase cars in sri lanka and syria, is the whole world chasing this balloon? :P
[05:28] <vk3vcl-p> lol... no, I think you might need to use the filter - under settings. put PSB in the box and it will just show the one payload
[05:29] <adwiens> right
[05:29] <adwiens> haha
[05:30] <adwiens> also, nice images, very cool
[05:30] <adwiens> i've never seen the ssdv system before
[05:35] <vk3vcl-p> adwiens, are you tracking, or watching on the web?
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[05:39] <adwiens> watching the web
[05:40] <adwiens> i'm too far away (us), used to live in australia, not anymore though
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[06:44] <DL7AD> Morning
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[06:44] <x-f> morning
[06:45] <x-f> PSB ext temperature is ok for Australia? :)
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[07:13] <vk3vcl-p> x-f, It was hotter than that on the ground just a day ago :)
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[07:50] <jcoxon> morning all
[07:50] <jcoxon> ooo psb is in the air
[07:54] <vk3vcl-p> jcoxon, Yep, she is at 8129M NE of the CBD of Melbourne. $$PSB,1118,07:54:13,-37.5531,145.2128,8127,9.33,8,3,26.3,26.3,2926,0_0_0*54D3
[07:55] <vk3vcl-p> images at http://ssdv.habhub.org/
[07:57] <jcoxon> very slow ascent rate
[07:57] <jcoxon> was that planned?
[07:58] <vk3vcl-p> I have no idea. Weather here (dont know your location) is erattic with bushfires, high temps and all sorts of weird stuff happening
[08:00] <jcoxon> yeah i've heard its gone a bit crazy
[08:00] <jcoxon> well at this rate i suspect it'll float at a higher altitude
[08:00] <jcoxon> could be a long flight
[08:00] <vk3vcl-p> current freq with doppler is around 434.647 MHz USB
[08:01] <vk3vcl-p> Yes, I dont know about chasers but its heading into the boonies now
[08:01] <jcoxon> they might have a cutdown mechanism to stop the flight early though their website doesn't suggest it
[08:01] Action: jcoxon likes a long duration flight
[08:03] <vk3vcl-p> Average air temp, in the direction the critter is heading is around 35Deg C average.
[08:03] <vk3vcl-p> As far as I know, both todays filght and tommorows have cut downs. I guess we will have to see how game they are :)
[08:04] <vk3vcl-p> jcoxon, Can I ask your location please. Im tracking from Western Victoria.
[08:04] <jcoxon> vk3vcl-p, i'm in the UK (M6JCX)
[08:06] <vk3vcl-p> Ahhhh... Lovely.
[08:07] <vk3vcl-p> Normally, there would be a kind of capcom for the flight from this team. Not sure what happened but will try to keep things updated when I get news from local sources.
[08:07] <jcoxon> thanks
[08:08] <jcoxon> lots of good info on spacenear.us and i've been doing this long enough to be able to predict what will happen next
[08:08] <jcoxon> it'll be worth getting as many people to listen as i think the flight will be long
[08:10] <vk3vcl-p> Im working on that right now. Whats your prediction?
[08:12] <jcoxon> vk3vcl-p, http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=8554cc7dd9b36ad7a2ca6010c790f73dcbde9be5
[08:12] <jcoxon> its a bit exagerated
[08:12] <jcoxon> but straight over adelaide
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[08:15] <vk3vcl-p> Ok... Interesting. WInds here are from the South West and creating a trough to the north east. I wonder if it will go like all the other PSB series and head for New Zealand... .
[08:15] <jcoxon> the thing is the higher winds around 30km will send it west
[08:15] <jcoxon> hence the sharp corner
[08:16] <vk3vcl-p> Centre freq currently 434.647.80
[08:17] <jcoxon> excellent ssdv pictures
[08:18] <vk3vcl-p> I look foward to seeing how long Andy keeps it in the air. I know e have a few more trackers that dont appear on the list, so hopefully they will come up and get into the groove!
[08:18] <vk3vcl-p> Yes, There was a n ice one of the cloud base awhile ago.
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[08:29] <vk3vcl-p> f5vnf, Evening.. A fine day for operations in low earth orbit :)
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[08:30] <vk3vcl-p> As the grey line approaches, the need to adjust frequency is minimised as temprature adjustes with doppler. Inetresting effect.
[08:31] <vk3vcl-p> hix, evening !
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[08:34] <vk3vcl-p> Image 19.... very nice!
[08:35] <jcoxon> yeah its good
[08:36] <vk3vcl-p> With the smoke from bushfires in the air Im expecting some very nice pics as the sun goes down. Last night was... Surreal. Sad that it takes an enormous fire to provide the medium.
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[08:37] <jcoxon> vk3vcl-p, i think this next picture is going to be good
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[08:43] <vk3vcl-p> battery Aziz.... :(
[08:43] <vk3vcl-p> J0rd4n, Yes, I think your right.. Will be a cracker
[08:43] <vk3vcl-p> that was jcoxon
[08:48] <vk3vcl-p> Centre freq now 434.648 MHz
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[08:50] <Reb-SM3ULC> vk3vcl-p: nice pics, would have been nice with height printed in the pic
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[08:56] <vk3vcl-p> Reb-SM3ULC, I will pass that on.
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[09:15] <vk3vcl-p> PSB6 Cebtre Freq now 434.649 MHz USB. 10687 Metres Altitude, heading up at about 0.3 M/s
[09:16] <jcoxon> vk3vcl-p, its getting above the clouds now
[09:16] <vk3vcl-p> Oh yeah...
[09:19] <jcoxon> bbl
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[09:20] <mclane> is there a 70 cm web sdr closeby?
[09:21] <vk3vcl-p> mclane, Sry, I dont know. I will have a look and see if I can find one.
[09:22] <x-f> pictures are pretty
[09:22] <x-f> vk3vcl-p, do you know what size balloon it is?
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[09:25] <vk3vcl-p> x-f, Bigger than a babys arm.... Sorry but I dont have much to work with. The last two have been around the two metre mark.
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[09:28] <x-f> looks like it is floating
[09:31] <x-f> unusually low for a latex
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[09:37] <vk3vcl-p> x-f, Weather conditions here are unusual. Its traveling from 20 deg into 30 plus degrees ground temps. Very strange here with the fires all over the place
[09:38] <x-f> i see
[09:40] <vk3vcl-p> This might help: http://www.emergency.vic.gov.au/#now
[09:40] <fsphil> oh, nice pics!
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[09:43] <fsphil> and an excellent number of receivers
[09:44] <fsphil> altitude appears to be dropping though
[09:50] <fsphil> nice sunset
[09:54] <fsphil> descent is slowing
[09:55] <fsphil> 2.5C at 10km altitude, australia really is toasty at the moment
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[10:05] <DL1SGP1> #26 is pretty :)
[10:05] <DL1SGP1> good morning folks
[10:05] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
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[10:13] <vk3vcl-p> DL1SGP,` And good morning to you too!
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[10:17] <fsphil> what's the camera onboard this flight?
[10:25] <DL1SGP> thanks vk3vcl-p :)
[10:38] <vk3vcl-p> fsphil, Sorry, No idea but as they are using a Rpi, I beleive it might be the popular one use dwith that device. I will findf out if I can
[10:39] <vk3vcl-p> DL1SGP,q No Problem.. Wish I ahd more information
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[10:52] <fsphil> yea it's a Pi cam, I recognise that red blob in the dark images :)
[10:53] <fsphil> ah ha, the moon
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[10:57] <vk3vcl-p> Im struggling to get decodes.. Wont be long now
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[11:00] <vk3vcl-p> G8KNN
[11:00] <vk3vcl-p> G8KNN,
[11:00] <vk3vcl-p> fsphil, So, is there a way to eliminate that blob?
[11:02] <fsphil> turning the LED off might help
[11:02] <vk3vcl-p> At 5000 m I doubt it maks much differebce ;)
[11:03] <fsphil> yea
[11:03] <vk3vcl-p> Sry.. Keyboard batteries are low
[11:04] <fsphil> seems to be taking the long way down
[11:05] <vk3vcl-p> Its the temprature differential between air and ground. The fires here make thihngs a little uncertian
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[11:09] <mclane> will you try to recover the payload?
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[11:35] <vk3vcl-p> Well, that us LOS.. Night to all
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[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nice flight anyway
[11:35] <Geoff-G8DHE> Gnight
[11:35] <eroomde> morning
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[12:02] <fsphil> image 43: the moon doesn't like being photographed
[12:03] <fsphil> I'm impressed anyone is still receiving data
[12:04] <fsphil> spoke too soon
[12:06] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[12:10] <fsphil> good to know
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[12:28] <Chetic> so I haven't soldered an antenna to the ntx2 yet
[12:28] <Chetic> and the transmission is REALLY unstable
[12:28] <Chetic> I can only just barely get sentences through at 50 baud (7bit)
[12:29] <Chetic> does that sound normal? the receiver IS right next to the transmitter..
[12:29] <Chetic> and I tried two different rtl sdrs
[12:29] <fsphil> possibly bad timing, or receiver is overloaded
[12:29] <craag> Chetic: Can you see the two lines clearly on the waterfall?
[12:29] <craag> Yeah receiver overload is very easy with the rtlsdrs, even with no tx antenna.
[12:29] <Chetic> fsphil: overloaded how?
[12:30] <fsphil> it'll still be a strong signal, even without the antenna
[12:30] <fsphil> at close range
[12:30] <craag> Chetic: rtlsdr is too close to the transmitter
[12:30] <Chetic> yeah the signal is very strong, but when the bits start coming in things get really blurry
[12:30] <craag> Can you give us a screenshot of dl-fldigi receiving the signal? That would give us some clues.
[12:30] <Chetic> should you be able to tell the bits apart at 50 baud in fldigi?
[12:30] <craag> Chetic: ^
[12:31] <fsphil> no
[12:32] <fsphil> you'd need to be at about 10 baud before you'd clearly see the bits on the waterfall
[12:32] <Chetic> very good to know
[12:32] <Chetic> trying to find an old pic of fldigi since I don't have the stuff where I am at the moment
[12:34] <Chetic> damn, no pic
[12:34] <Chetic> but how far apart should they be?
[12:34] <Chetic> with no antenna on the transmitter
[12:35] <craag> I'd try at about 1 meter
[12:35] <craag> What antenna is on the rtlsdr?
[12:35] <Chetic> ah yeah I tried moving it to a different room, and it didn't make a difference
[12:35] <Chetic> stock antenna on the rtlsdr
[12:35] <craag> ok, probably not overload then
[12:36] <Chetic> oh yes I also tried with the 434mhz antenna (and a habamp)
[12:36] <craag> Ok. If you ask around again when you've got it in front of you with some screenshots and audio recordings of the telemetry, we can try to help you work it out. :)
[12:37] <Chetic> yeah, good idea!
[12:37] <Chetic> I feel like a fraps video would be the best
[12:37] <Chetic> and some pictures of the gear
[12:37] <fsphil> a lot can be told from an audio recording
[12:38] <craag> Sounds like it might be a timing issue as fsphil said.
[12:38] <Chetic> timing issue where?
[12:38] <craag> But having samples would make it a lot easier to pin it down!
[12:38] <fsphil> you don't happen to be using software serial anywhere Chetic?
[12:38] <craag> Where your 50 baud is actually 42 baud or something else, not 50 baud.
[12:38] <Chetic> well on the transmitter
[12:39] <Chetic> it's connected to the rpi uart
[12:39] <fsphil> ah, rpi
[12:39] <fsphil> not a software serial problem then
[12:39] <craag> Does the Rpi do 50 baud?
[12:39] <Chetic> yes
[12:39] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[12:39] <fsphil> yea
[12:39] <craag> ok
[12:40] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[12:40] <mfa298> wasn't 50 baud a bit dodgy on the pi. I thought some people had issues with it
[12:41] <craag> Yeah that's what I thought
[12:41] <fsphil> daveake mentioned some problems, but it's worked fine for me
[12:41] <craag> ok
[12:41] <fsphil> it could be a per-board thing
[12:42] <Chetic> I've tried 110 and 300, but that's as many times worse
[12:42] <mfa298> I've only used the uart at higher speeds for console / gps so i've not tested it at slow speeds
[12:43] <fsphil> it could be your fldigi setup
[12:43] <Chetic> I have it at work where there are tons of oscilloscopes so I can check the bit timing
[12:43] <Chetic> what could it be about my fldigi setup?
[12:43] <Chetic> parity and stop bits are the same
[12:43] <Chetic> and I've tried all combinations of those
[12:44] <Chetic> I'd tried all sizes of the things you can widen to match the spread of your lines.. whatever the words are
[12:44] <Chetic> 425 is the whatchacallit line separation thing
[12:45] <Chetic> sorry for going all technical on you
[12:45] <Chetic> :p
[12:45] <fsphil> filter bandwidth should be at 50hz or slightly higher
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[12:55] <eroomde> original 2n2222s in a in can are like £1 each now
[12:55] <eroomde> madnessatron
[12:57] <eroomde> to-92s are 10p though
[12:58] <eroomde> so still ok for a junk box
[12:58] <eroomde> i just used one to make a fast rising edge pulse generator. it's faster tha the bandwidth of my 400MHz scope can measure
[12:59] <eroomde> i'm guessing sort of 500ps, hopefully less but have no way of telling
[13:03] <fsphil> what's the rush
[13:04] <eroomde> ho
[13:05] <eroomde> it's actually so you can have something much faster than your front end so that you're measuring the response of the front end
[13:05] <eroomde> i.e. trying to practically measure a step or impulse response, where those are theoretically an instantly rising edge
[13:15] <fsphil> makes sense
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> oh shit
[13:15] <Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2014/01/17/20-gpsglonassbeidou-receiver/
[13:16] <WillTablet> eroomde: what layer is error correction handled at in networking?
[13:16] <Laurenceb_> looks like me and Leo got epically pwned
[13:16] <craag> Laurenceb_: Best thing about those is the 2x RAW for $50, with rtklib :)
[13:16] <Laurenceb_> thats mad
[13:16] <Laurenceb_> they must have been coding hard :P
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> actually... thats a venus??
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> im confused
[13:17] <craag> Yep, they're made by skytraq iirc
[13:17] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: chillax
[13:17] <eroomde> it's a LEON core
[13:17] <eroomde> and a sige front end
[13:17] <eroomde> what they did was make it work on an FPGA (easy)
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> oh lol
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> heh
[13:17] <eroomde> then send the VHDL off to an asic fab house
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> oh
[13:18] <Laurenceb_> rofl
[13:18] <eroomde> and wrote 'venus' on the top
[13:18] <craag> Oh right
[13:18] <Laurenceb_> i was peering in expecting to see "stm32" :P
[13:18] <eroomde> no one uses LEON unless they've first been prototyping it on an FPGA
[13:19] <eroomde> and you could do the correlators in hardware which will help with power consumption a lot
[13:19] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[13:19] <eroomde> WillTablet: one up from the physical layer i guess
[13:19] <eroomde> very low level anyway
[13:19] <eroomde> no one on power consumption
[13:19] <eroomde> no word*
[13:20] <eroomde> doubt it'll be threatening proper owm asic people
[13:20] <eroomde> oem*
[13:20] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[13:21] <eroomde> i'm doing a front end myself atm
[13:21] <eroomde> for gps
[13:21] <eroomde> it's quite instructive
[13:21] <eroomde> just in terms of tuning AGC circuits and stuff
[13:28] <WillTablet> eroomde: hmm I wasn't sure if the physical layer was just about putting data on the wire or whether it actually made sure the bits were received correctly
[13:28] <eroomde> it's just the wire thing
[13:28] <eroomde> hang on will have a look
[13:29] <eroomde> so FEC will be in layer 2
[13:29] <eroomde> http://www.escotal.com/Images/Network%20parts/osi.gif
[13:30] <eroomde> oh maybe not
[13:30] <eroomde> maybe it counts as physical layer
[13:30] <eroomde> i don't remember i'm afriad
[13:30] <eroomde> the model has never really ever been useful to me ever
[13:31] <eroomde> just seems symantics rather than anything of engineering consequence
[13:33] <mclane> will this thing work at high altitude?
[13:33] <craag> mclane: I couldn't find anything on that
[13:34] <mfa298> WillTablet: in terms of ethernet there's not much in terms of data correction. a few layers have some level of error detection - but it tends to depend on the protcol and medium being used
[13:35] <eroomde> i can't see anything to suggest that this gps is exciting
[13:35] <eroomde> it looks like just another gps
[13:35] <craag> good marketing :P
[13:36] <eroomde> yes
[13:36] <eroomde> $20 GPS!!!!
[13:36] <eroomde> well, ublox chips cost $20 too
[13:36] <eroomde> you can get sirf chips for $14
[13:36] <craag> The LEON core by itself I think I worked out at about 20mA at 3.3V
[13:36] <craag> (They gave xxuA/MHz value)
[13:36] <eroomde> there's some serious FEC if the more recent ethernet standards
[13:37] <eroomde> in*
[13:37] <eroomde> craag: i would have though it's strongly a function of the fab process
[13:38] <craag> 100MHz 32bit LEON3 Sparc-V8 .... ~80uA/MHz @ 3.3V
[13:38] <craag> So 8mA
[13:38] <craag> But that's a very vague spec to advertise
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[13:39] <craag> Looks like it was written by marketing.
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[13:44] <DL7AD> good afternoon
[13:44] <mclane> data sheet says < 18km AND 515 m/s
[13:45] <craag> Where did you find the datasheet?
[13:45] <eroomde> the venus we used previously was a special
[13:45] <mclane> http://www.skytraq.com.tw/products/Venus838FLPx_PB_v1.pdf
[13:45] <eroomde> i called a man called oliver at skytrac, he sent me ones with high alt firmware
[13:46] <craag> mclane: I notice it says 'Operational Limits' plural
[13:46] <mclane> yea
[13:47] <eroomde> mclane: that's not the same thing at all
[13:47] <eroomde> as in the photo on hackaday anyway
[13:47] <eroomde> different chip
[13:47] <craag> And it's an 838
[13:47] <craag> Not an 833
[13:47] <craag> *822
[13:47] <mclane> the picture shown on the indiegogo page shows an 838
[13:48] <craag> The top pic does
[13:48] <craag> The pic of the board doesn't
[13:48] <craag> (below)
[13:48] <mclane> and its mentioned in the text
[13:48] <craag> NavSpark uses latest generation low power 55nm Venus 822 chip...
[13:48] <nats`> got my pcb \o/
[13:49] <craag> lol it does say 838 as well :P
[13:49] <nats`> two of them have a defect on the soldermask but should be good anyway
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[14:40] <Willdude123> What's all this wow amazing gps talk?
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[14:53] <eroomde> crumpets and a tek 465b to track down a problem
[14:53] <eroomde> i just want a pipe and a professor jumper
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[14:55] <Zuph> 465b, old school.
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[14:57] <eroomde> Zuph: yeah i love it
[14:57] <eroomde> my fav scope
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[14:58] <eroomde> i mean, we have fancy-pants 400MHz 4ch stuff
[14:58] <eroomde> but i like the tek
[14:58] <eroomde> might get one for my home lab
[14:58] <eroomde> while i build up to blowing silly money on an agilent
[14:58] <Zuph> You mean a Keysight.
[14:58] <Zuph> :-p
[15:00] <eroomde> lol whatever
[15:00] <eroomde> i still just buy HP stuff
[15:00] <eroomde> i'll get a 34401 at some point
[15:00] <eroomde> that'll be the first bit of 2nd hand stuff from the agilent age
[15:00] <eroomde> but like my 6632b PSUs are HP
[15:00] <eroomde> and the best
[15:02] <Zuph> I never have any luck finding used test gear that's worth a damn.
[15:02] <eroomde> it takes time
[15:03] <eroomde> i repaired a fluke 8842A
[15:03] <eroomde> that was fun
[15:03] <eroomde> i think repairing stuff up to a good standard is very enjoyable, i'd like to practice it more
[15:03] <eroomde> i think a lot of my home stuff will be older HP stuff that's repairable
[15:03] <eroomde> not too much software or asics
[15:04] <Zuph> It is. If I had all the time in the world. I'd spend it cleaning up the crusty scopes that show up at the hackerspace.
[15:05] <eroomde> yeah
[15:05] <eroomde> have got the expensive stuff at work
[15:05] <eroomde> home la will likely be ugly-construction idea bashing at 3am
[15:07] <eroomde> rather strange exchange on eevblog while i was looking for info on a source meter i might bid on
[15:07] <eroomde> http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp-66312a-as-a-power-supply/
[15:07] <eroomde> how are things anyway Zuph?
[15:07] <eroomde> whatcha up to in life and the universe?
[15:07] <eroomde> and have you found any stand-out bourbons recently?
[15:10] <Zuph> Things are good! Working for a little custom contract engineering firm outside of Louisville, building NASA hardware, separating stem cells, etc.
[15:11] <eroomde> nice
[15:11] <Zuph> Been drinking a lot of Rowan's Creek lately, nice one that won't break the bank.
[15:11] <eroomde> how do you separate stem cells?
[15:12] <Zuph> We're using really big permanent magnets, and magnetic beads coated in specific antibodies.
[15:12] <eroomde> that sounds clever
[15:12] <qyx_> eroomde: nice cats
[15:12] <eroomde> qyx_: i thought so
[15:12] <eroomde> arko: ping
[15:12] <Zuph> It is, also very fiddly.
[15:13] <Zuph> And who's buying the bulk of your time these days, eroomde ?
[15:14] <eroomde> reaction engines
[15:15] <eroomde> mostly doing propulsion research
[15:15] <Zuph> No way! Awesome, how's that going?
[15:15] <eroomde> but really enjoying the instrumentation side
[15:15] <eroomde> am making lots of dataloggers and sensors and nice conditioning bits
[15:16] <eroomde> it's going pretty well!
[15:16] <eroomde> we're on a nice quiet site near oxford, it was an airbase in WW2, then was the rocket propulsion establishment until the 80s
[15:16] Nick change: Willdude123 -> Javert
[15:16] Nick change: Javert -> Willdude123
[15:16] <eroomde> then it sort of just became a generic business park, but still with loads of space, and we've refurbished a load of the old concrete bunkers for testing
[15:17] <Zuph> Bet the neighbors love that.
[15:17] <eroomde> and there's a small but growing collection of space companies popping up there now
[15:17] <eroomde> so there's a nice buzz about the place
[15:17] <eroomde> we're thankfully separated from the fedex depot and the other 30-or-so companies like that
[15:17] <Willdude123> eroomde: has your workload significantly increased after that government grant?
[15:17] <Zuph> Very nice.
[15:17] <eroomde> Willdude123: no
[15:18] <eroomde> but my stress levels have significantly decreased
[15:18] <eroomde> no money worries for the next 3 or 4 years, can just enjoy the engineering
[15:18] <Willdude123> I think private companies are almost certainly the future of spacefl
[15:18] <eroomde> yes
[15:18] <eroomde> well we can just get on with stuff
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: My one complaint about the 6632B. If you operate it vertically with the display up - it stops working.
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[15:19] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: never tried
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:19] <eroomde> not sure i will
[15:19] <Willdude123> I think it might be a bit like when the internet was first around and government owned
[15:19] <Willdude123> And then became privatised
[15:19] <SpeedEvil> (the fan sensor is I guess in the wrong place)
[15:20] <Zuph> Our company *mostly* builds experimental payloads for scientists, and we're seeing a lot of money flowing on the private industry side.
[15:22] <eroomde> space is still basically government funded
[15:22] <eroomde> everywhere in the world
[15:23] <Willdude123> eroomde: do you think space research will still be primarily done by governemnts putting people in space?
[15:23] <Willdude123> Like private astronauts on the ISS
[15:23] <eroomde> no
[15:23] <eroomde> i think 95% of research will be robotic
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[15:24] <eroomde> i suspect it'll be gov funded
[15:24] <Zuph> Yep. It's already fairly robotic-- Think about the number of science payloads on ISS vs. the number of astronauts.
[15:24] <eroomde> still
[15:25] <eroomde> spaceX is still gov funded mostly
[15:25] <Willdude123> I'm intrigued by the mars one project
[15:25] <eroomde> just sort of the right way
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> The trade might somewhat shift if space launch (either through airbreathing methods or others) were to come down lots in price.
[15:25] <eroomde> i.e. by nasa giving them money by committing to loads of future launches
[15:25] <eroomde> just laundering it in a different way
[15:26] <eroomde> but by doing it that way, spaceX can say they're selling a service and not be some encumbered by gov oversight operationally
[15:26] <eroomde> which seems an ideal way to do things, to me
[15:26] <eroomde> theoretically it's less good for the US taxpayer because their money is not so encountable
[15:26] <Zuph> NASA really likes the SpaceX model, and is pushing other contractors (read: us) towards similar models.
[15:27] <eroomde> but i have no doubt a dollar spent at spaceX buys them 10x more spaciness than a dollar given to one of the huge primes on a normal nasa programme
[15:27] <eroomde> Zuph: yeah, and it's better that way too
[15:28] <eroomde> when we get a hovering rocket working, we'll sell flight hours to the agency
[15:28] <eroomde> rather than ask them to fund the dev
[15:28] <eroomde> no ip problems, no interfering, no huge design reviews at great expense
[15:28] <eroomde> with 70% outside people who aren't that techical anyway
[15:28] <Willdude123> eroomde: where do you think it would be launched from?
[15:28] <Willdude123> Could we have a UK launch to the ISS?
[15:29] <eroomde> no
[15:29] <eroomde> well yes you could
[15:29] <eroomde> but there is not much point
[15:29] <eroomde> UK would work for lobbing stuff into polar orbit though
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Sure there is! The beachhead for a conquest of the new world!
[15:29] <eroomde> there's nothing between dunrae (sp?) and the north pole
[15:29] <SpeedEvil> Take back Woomera!
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> slightly west of polar launches look damn empty too.
[15:30] <eroomde> dounreay
[15:30] <Zuph> eroomde: That depends on your perspective :-p A lot of contractors are used to time and materials contracts that offload any development risk onto NASA.
[15:30] <eroomde> yeah
[15:30] <Zuph> and at least with payloads flying to NASA facilities, you still have the huge design reviews at great expense.
[15:30] <eroomde> but i'd sooner kill myself
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[15:31] <eroomde> that do endless cost-plus contract with loads of meetings and reviews
[15:31] <eroomde> and spend 2 years working on spomething with only a microsoft word document (or ten) to show for it
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> Can we A) Spend 4 weeks in a meeting, followed by farming it out over the next year to 42 shops in politically important states.
[15:32] <Zuph> For us, it isn't quite so bad, although there are definitely reams of word documents.
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> Or B) Kevin can do it in 20 mins.
[15:32] <eroomde> i know plenty of nasa subs who get a bit fed up with it
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[15:32] <eroomde> after we presented our mars parachute testing thing at the AIAA conf, we had a bunch of JPL guys come up after and say it was really cool etc, but that they could just never do it themselves
[15:33] <Zuph> It can be infuriating. Our payloads are still required to meet a lot of shuttle-specific design specs.
[15:33] <eroomde> it'll take 10x as long and cost 100x as much
[15:33] <eroomde> but the shuttle is no longer flying!
[15:33] <eroomde> that was a stupid stupid stupid thing, in hindsight
[15:33] <Zuph> Exactly. The specification documents haven't been updated.
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> Zuph: you never know.
[15:33] <Zuph> Or have been updated haphazardly.
[15:33] <eroomde> having to risk the lives of a whole crew just to lob a science sat up
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> They may decide to build more.
[15:34] <eroomde> lol
[15:34] <Zuph> SpeedEvil: LOL
[15:34] <eroomde> as if
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> (I am regrettably not 100% kidding)
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> It almost wouldn't surprise me.
[15:34] <eroomde> i think i can safely say they won't
[15:34] <SpeedEvil> :)
[15:35] <Zuph> No doubt about the crew thing. My company has had a payload on each of the ill-fated shuttle flights.
[15:36] <eroomde> what you need is something that can just keep lobbing stuff up into LEO quickly and repeatably
[15:36] <eroomde> and make the whole thing much more boring and quotidien
[15:36] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[15:38] <SpeedEvil> Getting it routine enough that people can die up there would be awesome.
[15:39] <eroomde> i don't know about that
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> Well - on the basis that it's construction work of a sort.
[15:39] <eroomde> i just want to get it to the state that instead of building one gold-plated sat with quadruple redundancy for $400M, they build 4 sats using COTS stuff that do the same thing, each for $20M
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> And the deathrate in that even on the ground isn't close to zero
[15:39] <eroomde> and if one breaks, just lob another one up
[15:39] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[15:40] <eroomde> book a alunch slot like you book an aeroplane ticket
[15:40] <SpeedEvil> A deathrate comparable to (for example) climbing everest wouldn't initially be insane.
[15:40] <eroomde> launch*
[15:40] <eroomde> freudian
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[15:42] <SpeedEvil> (1-5% or so)
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[15:49] <SpeedEvil> Lunch In Space!
[15:50] <SpeedEvil> (Or a free complimentary vomit bag)
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[16:17] <number10> anyone know if the CUSF zero pressure was launched? http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621628336895/
[16:19] <ibanezmatt13_> eroomde might know
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[16:38] <jcoxon> afternoon
[16:39] <number10> afternoon - did you leave CU before 2007 jcoxon
[16:39] <number10> I wonder if this got launched http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621628336895/
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[16:39] <jcoxon> it never got launched
[16:41] <craag> Looks v impressive
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[16:47] <RocketBoy> now thats a blast from the past -then there was UKHAS1 - http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621752955158/ - dam I had much less grey hair then
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[17:29] <eroomde> /msg fsphil had a stab at laying out that modulator board: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6b2pvl2hqk0kd2/iqmod.png
[17:30] <eroomde> oh alright then spacebar, let's tell the whole world
[17:30] <number10> thats ok eroomde - it looks nice
[17:30] <ibanezmatt13> awesome routing
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[17:32] <eroomde> not especially but it'll do as a first pass
[17:32] <ibanezmatt13> fair enough, I still need to figure out how to fix mine actually
[17:32] <eroomde> heh every photo in that ukhas1 gallery has the same bit of dust on the senor of my slr
[17:33] <jcoxon> hey eroomde
[17:33] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3741092144/in/set-72157621752955158
[17:33] <eroomde> that was a fun flight on the way up
[17:33] <eroomde> hey jcoxon
[17:33] <jcoxon> yeah for the first half
[17:34] <eroomde> fun on the way down for different values of fun
[17:37] <eroomde> how are things jcoxon?
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[17:46] <jcoxon> eroomde, good thanks
[17:47] <eroomde> good
[17:47] <eroomde> i was in lond last night
[17:47] <arko> people of cambridge https://twitter.com/ZX81Museum/status/424582947396915200
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[17:49] <eroomde> i had a chance to explain skylon to some random guy in islington who seemed to be connected to the city in some way
[17:49] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/1pz6wmw9pzx6x4f/boz.jpg
[17:50] <jcoxon> oh right
[17:50] <jcoxon> i reconise him
[17:50] <jcoxon> i think i saw him on the tube or something
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[17:50] <arko> was that taken on a polaroid?
[17:50] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:50] <arko> :P couldn't resist
[17:50] <eroomde> arko: the electronics lab now has a sign
[17:50] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/epfvkjla0djdw6n/2014-01-17%2014.15.52.jpg
[17:51] <arko> HAHAHAHAHAHHAA
[17:51] <SpeedEvil> :)
[17:51] <arko> rombus current symbol with: Dependent of Current Affairs
[17:51] <arko> :P
[17:51] <arko> but dude, thats epic
[17:53] <eroomde> i bought a book
[17:53] <eroomde> 'The art and science of analog circuit design'
[17:53] <eroomde> edited by jim williams
[17:53] <eroomde> get it
[17:53] <eroomde> it's good
[17:53] <arko> :O
[17:53] <arko> omg yes
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> I am somewhat amused that keyboard tactile feel has gone _backwards_ since the zx81.
[17:53] <eroomde> it's kinda 1/3rd talking about life and the universe and becomming a good analog designer and stuff
[17:53] <arko> im loving analog design
[17:53] <eroomde> then 1/3 on actual case studies
[17:54] <arko> im so glad i didnt do computer engineering
[17:54] <eroomde> eg building a front end for a scope whose gain/attentuation is flat to 0.1dB from DC to 500MHz
[17:54] <arko> otherwise i would be taking digital classes instead of analog
[17:54] <eroomde> which is actually super hard
[17:54] <arko> 4 class difference
[17:54] <eroomde> and then the final 3rd is more tips and stuff
[17:54] <eroomde> it's very enjoyable to read
[17:55] <arko> :)
[17:55] <arko> amazon prime
[17:55] <arko> score
[17:55] <arko> adding to wishlist
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[17:58] Nick change: Gadget-Mac_ -> Gadget-Mac
[17:58] <eroomde> also have this, which is very good
[17:58] <eroomde> http://www.amazon.com/Troubleshooting-Analog-Circuits-Series-Engineers/dp/0750694998
[17:59] <eroomde> bob pease being angry but funny
[17:59] <eroomde> and good
[18:00] <arko> hahaha
[18:00] <arko> does he complain a lot about stupid designs?
[18:00] <eroomde> he was the guy who answered 'what's your favourite proramming language?' with:
[18:00] <eroomde> 'Solder.'
[18:01] <arko> lol yeah i remember that quote
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[18:08] <eroomde> right, am gonna wonder home
[18:08] <eroomde> bbl
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[18:19] <arko> latersss
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[18:31] <fsphil> Boris and rockets. I can see that being popular
[18:33] <cm13g09> fsphil: eh?
[18:34] <mattbrejza> well first you had boris bikes,
[18:34] <fsphil> late respose to a comment earlier :)
[18:34] <cm13g09> heh
[18:34] <mattbrejza> his latest idea goes a step further
[18:35] <cm13g09> I can just see the headlines now....
[18:35] <cm13g09> Boris launches new idea.... literally
[18:36] Nick change: kuldeepdhaka_ -> kuldeepdhaka
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[18:56] <eroomde> i wish to be as happy and optimistic as guy martin
[18:58] <jarod> eroomde can i use my 1 free per month humor paste now?
[18:58] <eroomde> yes
[18:58] <jarod> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHz8EWzBY3k - Top Gear: Series 21 Teaser Trailer - BBC Two
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[19:07] <steve_2e0vet> evening all
[19:09] <fsphil> evenin!
[19:11] <steve_2e0vet> quiet here tonight
[19:11] <jcoxon> steve_2e0vet, not enough launches :-)
[19:12] <eroomde> it's a pizza kind of a night
[19:12] <fsphil> apart from our ozzy friends this-morning
[19:12] <steve_2e0vet> i wish i could launch, i never get a response from the bods who say you can launch
[19:13] <eroomde> the CAA?
[19:13] <steve_2e0vet> damm ive been sending it to the CIA
[19:13] <fsphil> we know
[19:13] <fsphil> I mean, oh dear
[19:13] <steve_2e0vet> lol
[19:14] <mattbrejza> oww, hv gen for GM tubes seems to work
[19:14] <steve_2e0vet> whats the name of the website you can send images to is it infur or something like that
[19:14] <mattbrejza> imgur
[19:14] <fsphil> .com
[19:14] <fsphil> weird name
[19:15] <steve_2e0vet> cool. I've been off HAb for a cople of months been pretty busy and havent had the time, just come back to it tonight and i cannot get my tracker to decode, was going to upload a couple of images to see if anyone could shed any lights on it
[19:16] <eroomde> do!
[19:17] <steve_2e0vet> this is the first, and doesnt look too bad to me http://imgur.com/ZmSacL8
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[19:17] <fsphil> the shift is a bit off
[19:17] <eroomde> spectrum looks good, what does the text look like?
[19:17] <fsphil> and it looks a bit noisy
[19:17] <eroomde> does it look close-but-not-quite intelligable or is it just gibberish?
[19:18] <steve_2e0vet> and this is just... well.... http://imgur.com/zNfBl7y
[19:18] <steve_2e0vet> both total givbberish
[19:18] <fsphil> it looks like a power source problem
[19:18] <fsphil> what are you feeding it from?
[19:18] <steve_2e0vet> possibly i dont know how old the batteries are, the audio from the radio sounds ok
[19:19] <steve_2e0vet> 8 x aa
[19:19] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:19] <steve_2e0vet> hello luner
[19:19] <fsphil> that's a lot of AA
[19:19] <fsphil> what is the actual NTX2 being fed rom?
[19:19] <fsphil> from
[19:19] <steve_2e0vet> in what way
[19:20] <fsphil> where is the voltage to the ntx2 coming from
[19:20] <steve_2e0vet> i would have to open it and check, its been a couple of months now, it was the curcuit from the UKHAS site
[19:20] <fsphil> if it worked before then probably the batteries
[19:21] <steve_2e0vet> right offski to get some more batteries
[19:29] <x-f> PSB6 launch is tomorrow morning (04:30 GMT) with HF payload (10.1405 MHz, DomEX4)
[19:29] <jcoxon> awesome
[19:29] <x-f> that's Australia again
[19:30] <x-f> VK3YT mentioned 20m beacon too, but no details
[19:34] <steve_2e0vet> fsphil: what causes the noise?
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[19:36] <mattbrejza> http://i.imgur.com/uc2TRyD.png good going java...
[19:44] <fsphil> steve_2e0vet: variations in voltage
[19:50] <steve_2e0vet> back to the drawing board i think
[19:50] <fsphil> this is why I was asking about how the ntx2 is powered
[19:51] <fsphil> it may be a voltage regulator that's at or over capacity
[19:51] <fsphil> or just bad
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[20:09] <steve_2e0vet> getting nothing now but a carrier
[20:09] <iain_g4sgx> Good evening peeps. What step-up converters are popular for HAB? Ive been trying to get a MAX1724 (3.3v) stable all day to no avail.
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npk61XnYU-4 - on gravity
[20:11] <SpeedEvil> iain_g4sgx: from what to what
[20:13] <iain_g4sgx> 1.5 (ish) to 3.3v currently
[20:13] <eroomde> iain_g4sgx: that sounds like a bugger. do you have a schematic and layout you might whack on imgur?
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[20:18] <iain_g4sgx> Really need a pcb prototyping system, its a VERY simple circuit cos I dont have a proper pcb im trying to fit it on vero. Think I may have too much stray capacitance/inductance, either that or ive fried it. http://www.justfans.co.uk/images/max.jpg
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[20:19] <eroomde> have you a pic of the catual board?
[20:19] <mattbrejza> iain_g4sgx: one thing ive found before is to make sure the feedback resistors dont pick up any noise from the high current switching tracks
[20:19] <mattbrejza> (had to fix that one a couple of hours ago)
[20:20] <eroomde> ha
[20:20] <mattbrejza> http://www.maximintegrated.com/images/appnotes/3757/3757Fig01.gif made this on stripboard for a GM tube
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> iain_g4sgx: Do you have a picture?
[20:22] <SpeedEvil> oh
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/arc/rm/3357.pdf
[20:23] <eroomde> what is it lb?
[20:23] <Laurenceb_> nose cone heating
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> dunno if interesting
[20:24] <eroomde> oh yes poss
[20:24] <eroomde> i am aware of the smell of my own feet
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> Figure 9
[20:24] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:24] <eroomde> went for a lonish walk today
[20:25] <iain_g4sgx> i do but not gonna help much, its mounted on top and i've made pins to connect. Its just to test really. Inductor and capacitors are underneath. http://www.justfans.co.uk/images/photo.JPG
[20:25] <Laurenceb_> C.H.U. ~2kJ ?
[20:25] <iain_g4sgx> extra wires are to keep ground lines short and away from other sigs
[20:26] <iain_g4sgx> max is under the RFM42 board. resistor is to add a 10mA load
[20:28] <eroomde> it might just be a veroboard thing
[20:28] <eroomde> is that electrolytic the output cap?
[20:28] <eroomde> oh you said it was underneath. sorry
[20:29] <iain_g4sgx> Yep. Only because i suspected the smd one so strapped it in parrallel s an afterthought. Too much esr?
[20:29] <eroomde> fwiw my thinking was that the esr of the electro might be too high
[20:29] <eroomde> yeah
[20:29] <iain_g4sgx> OK, no electro and new max chip.. we shall see
[20:30] <eroomde> good luck
[20:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Is't this at M6.8 and 100kPa?
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[20:30] <Laurenceb_> yes
[20:30] <iain_g4sgx> Tnx, thats what i love ant programming/electronics, theres always a way..
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: so its not that bad really
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> aiui heating goes with M^2.5 ?
[20:30] <Laurenceb_> and proportional to density?
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Dunno.
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> so a rockoon isnt horrendous
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> I need to brush up on my hypersonic aerothermal transfer.
[20:31] <Laurenceb_> but closer to the tip the heating goes up exponentially
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[20:31] <Laurenceb_> i guess you need a slightly blunt tip for it to survive
[20:31] <SpeedEvil> Or a leetle bit of carbon.
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[20:33] <eroomde> or just suck it up
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[20:33] <eroomde> enough ali will conduct away
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[20:35] <Laurenceb_> looks like SLS printed nylon would survive a rockoon flight
[20:36] <eroomde> that'd be impressive
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> putting those numbers in i get a 30C temp rise for a 75Km rockoon
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> from 35Km
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> damn i so need to learn Elmer
[20:37] <Laurenceb_> full multiphysics FTW
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: you mean with some surface melting?
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> no
[20:39] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: wait - is this your proof of concept idea with the D on the 2l?
[20:39] <Laurenceb_> the thermal diffusion spreads the heat out across the top 0.5mm
[20:39] <eroomde> i want to try some fun stuff with wood's metal
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: yes
[20:40] <eroomde> eg phase chnage to take heat away for something
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Na/K is much lighter.
[20:40] <eroomde> or a small valve in a hab that you close by metling a ring of wood's metal into it
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> Estes D motor with cardboard lathed off and infused with silicone under vacuum (i have th ekit for this)
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> Also more flammable, for extra fn
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> then places in a CF tube with nozzle extension
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: interesting stuff
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: I suspect technically that would amount to 'manufacturing fireworks'
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> talking of silicone rubber...
[20:41] <eroomde> i'm not really sure if it's a good idea for anything
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> The rubber to fill any cracks?
[20:41] <eroomde> but it seems like an interesting substance
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bCpD0tx1iU
[20:41] <Laurenceb_> ^totally insane
[20:42] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: for fire resistance
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Fire resistant rockets.
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> I spot a subtle flaw in your plan.
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> you mean lathe off most of the cardboard, and then infuse with silicone what remains?
[20:43] <Laurenceb_> yes
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[20:44] <Laurenceb_> so you have something like 0.5 to 1mm of cardboard remaining (you would have to test to see what works)
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[20:44] <Laurenceb_> but <1mm of cardboard is burnt off the inside of used motors ive dissected
[20:44] <SpeedEvil> the CF tube wound directly on it?
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> no
[20:44] <Laurenceb_> off the shelf CF tube and stove it in whilst the silicone sets
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> I wonder if the cardboard is already impregnated
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> probably
[20:45] <eroomde> interestingly this is *exactly* what we looked at about 4 years ago
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> but not very seriously
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> you can set the cardboard on fire still
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> Oh - right - so you're just using the silicone as a gap filler/structural.
[20:45] <eroomde> making a solid motor-tube with CF and a silica barrier
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> its not very retardent
[20:45] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: yes
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> Adding glass microballoons might be beneficial too
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: theres lots of nasa papers on this
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> doesnt seem to help
[20:46] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[20:46] <Laurenceb_> in tems of retardation/mass
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> Lots of this stuff is counterintuitive unless you think of everything
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> Oooh - there are quartz ones too
[20:47] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB2bC0qWV78
[20:47] <Laurenceb_> at least thanks to n-prize we know how _not_ to do it now XD
[20:48] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62zGCN8qA38
[20:48] <SpeedEvil> Is that the coke can nutters?
[20:49] <eroomde> oh god i saw this before
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:49] <eroomde> what in the name of god
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> I actually have some steel pipe nozzles I made by spinning.
[20:49] <SpeedEvil> It works quite well
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> actually im impressed
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> they almost made it work
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> its still terminally insane tho
[20:49] <eroomde> 'work'?
[20:50] <eroomde> work at what?
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: making sort-of-rockety noises.
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> lol
[20:50] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: For them, that's a high bar.
[20:50] <Laurenceb_> usually it blows up it ~10milliseconds
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[20:51] <eroomde> iain and i were going to do an acrylic tube hybrid
[20:51] <eroomde> for schools demos
[20:51] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> DL7AD
[20:51] <SpeedEvil> The exhaust velocity must be 50, or even 60 meters a second.
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> lol 1:50
[20:51] <eroomde> lol SpeedEvil
[20:51] <Laurenceb_> houston we have an problem
[20:52] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc15uTTm5ws - on another tack.
[20:53] <SpeedEvil> Ultrasonic soldering.
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[20:56] <Laurenceb_> unix?!
[20:56] Action: SpeedEvil tries to remember where his microspheres are.
[20:56] <SpeedEvil> - got some 3m samples.
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[21:02] <qyx_> lol that wikisat
[21:02] <qyx_> hm, but it burns quite long
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[21:04] <Laurenceb_> "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
[21:04] <Laurenceb_> think it applied to them
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/17/ten_bitcoin_miners/?page=2 'The equipment is based on the companys own 28nm Golden Nonce - processor'
[21:13] <eroomde> april 1?
[21:14] <Willdude123> We all know BFL are scammers
[21:14] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptographic_nonce
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: did you link some pyro protactors on here at some point?
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> lol SpeedEvil
[21:15] <eroomde> sure 1 sec
[21:15] <Laurenceb_> aha
[21:15] <eroomde> http://www.monetti.net/pdf/en/PRODUCTS_ACTUATORS_GAS_GENERATORS/01/DR%202006%20C1%20EN.pdf
[21:15] <eroomde> c1 sorry
[21:15] <eroomde> those are the ones we've used
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> do those require explosives license etc?
[21:16] <eroomde> nope
[21:16] <eroomde> totally contained, no leaking gases
[21:16] <eroomde> can put them in ordinary post
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> ah interesting
[21:16] <Laurenceb_> bit heavy tho :-/
[21:17] <Laurenceb_> do you know of any <10gram stuff?
[21:17] <eroomde> it probably exists, but i'm not much read up on it
[21:17] <eroomde> for a rockoon you could diy with those batty vishay resistors :)
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> yeah
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[21:19] <Laurenceb_> splittz
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> but i have a large scar in my neck from diy pyrotechnics when i was ~12 :P
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> luckily it missed all the blood vessels
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[21:21] <eroomde> http://www.monetti.net/attuatoripirotecnicigeneratoridigas.htm
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[21:21] <eroomde> i biy them from cgemring energetics
[21:21] <eroomde> chemring*
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[21:22] <Laurenceb_> GSF-05 looks nice and light
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> ok
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[21:22] <eroomde> they might be just charges rather than protractors
[21:22] <eroomde> ot sure
[21:22] <eroomde> not*
[21:22] <Laurenceb_> looks like they are charges
[21:23] <eroomde> chemring might be worth a call
[21:23] <eroomde> hey'll know the landscape
[21:23] <Laurenceb_> "i'm not the sort of person who once blew themselves up... honest guv"
[21:24] Action: Laurenceb_ gets back to trying to make i2c behave
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> how i cant even get a sparkfun 9dof sensor stick to talk to an stm32 over 1m of cable :-S
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> maybe time to break out the CAN bus
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[21:26] <Laurenceb_> seems _something_ happened to the ADXL345 recently
[21:26] <Laurenceb_> only the newer ones fail
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[21:26] <Laurenceb_> no spike filtering or faster logic or something
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[21:27] <SpeedEvil> They have a 'user blew himself up in the past' filter
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> ttp://i.imgur.com/3cjuEwP.jpg
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> *+h
[21:28] <eroomde> still can't click on it
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[21:28] <Laurenceb_> erm
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> http://i.imgur.com/3cjuEwP.jpg
[21:28] <Laurenceb_> that
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> all i can think is that the negative spikes are causing the issues
[21:29] <Laurenceb_> but theres no ACK there
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[21:30] <bertrik> What's the protocol we're seeing there?
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> I2C
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> left to right is (START, 0x30, NACK)
[21:30] <bertrik> are you sure you got the i2c address right? e.g. not shifted left or right by 1 bit
[21:30] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:31] <Laurenceb_> it works if i plug an older sensor board in
[21:31] <bertrik> hm, ok
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> i cant see a nice solution for filtering it
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> so it might require RS485/CAN
[21:32] <Laurenceb_> very fustrating
[21:32] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: for filtering what?
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> filtering out the negative spikes
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> why would you need to filter it?
[21:33] <Laurenceb_> well - avoid them then :P
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> What length are the spikes
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[21:33] <Laurenceb_> atm, hundreds of ns
[21:33] <SpeedEvil> If you don't have terminated cables at the end (and you won't) - you'll of course get reflections
[21:34] <Laurenceb_> but adding 100ohm resistors to the io pins doesnt fix all the issues
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[21:34] <Laurenceb_> its mainly capacitive coupling between the conductors i think
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> terminating the cables properly (at HF at least) may help
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> Or recable with a signal between each ground
[21:35] <SpeedEvil> Or perhaps even put some metal tape - grounded - over the cable
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[21:36] <steve_2e0vet> im still having problems with the Linking an Arduino to a Radiometrix NTX2 Transmitter wiki. tried 2 arduinos 2 ntx2's and 2 power supplies - still getting junk in DL-FLDIGI
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: problem is im stuck with a CE approved device at one end
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> whole system needs CE
[21:37] <bertrik> you could record the audio, and check it in an audio app for right bitrate, for example
[21:37] <Laurenceb_> so ive got an off the shelf stm32 based device with hacked firmware
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> and only the cable and sensors are approved
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Oh.
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> this makes the entire this a massive headache, yeah
[21:38] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Or you say screwit, and go optical.
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> heh
[21:38] <Laurenceb_> proper busses like rs485 and can will run fine
[21:39] <Laurenceb_> i2c isnt a proper bus...
[21:39] <Willdude123> American station heard on piece of wire
[21:39] <Willdude123> CW
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> :)
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> It doesn't count if it was voice of america.
[21:41] <steve_2e0vet> i say junk , instead of it saying RTTY TEST its printing different characters, 9|YTtd|YQb9|YTtd,IL2@Eb9|YTtd|YQb9|YTtd,IL2@Eb9|YTtd|YQb9|
[21:41] <SpeedEvil> http://www.nxp.com/documents/leaflet/75016081.pdf looks possibly relevant
[21:42] <RocketBoy> steve_2e0vet: got a screen shot of dl-fldigi
[21:42] <bertrik> steve_2e0vet: maybe you got the tones the wrong way around?
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: interesting
[21:42] <bertrik> have you disabled squelch in dl-fldigi?
[21:42] <RocketBoy> also capture some sound - and I'll take a look
[21:43] <steve_2e0vet> yes squelch disabled. not sure ow to capture sound
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: this gives me an interesting idea
[21:43] <steve_2e0vet> i'll get a scree shot now
[21:43] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: it would be interesting to have a device that generated specifically broken I2C - so you could see what the issues were
[21:43] <Laurenceb_> i have a newer datalogging device with only single i2c port rather than dual on my current one
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[21:44] <Laurenceb_> if i had an i2c splitter i send all the users updated kit which would go down well :D
[21:45] <Laurenceb_> might try breadboarding some of this nxp stuff
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[21:46] <steve_2e0vet> strange how it started to try and do RTTY TEST http://imgur.com/CpkVnWA
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[21:47] <bertrik> hm, so settings seem basically OK, correct polarity, signal not too strong
[21:47] <eroomde> hit Rv? just because that's in the list of things to try
[21:48] <steve_2e0vet> RV??
[21:48] <eroomde> bottom right button
[21:48] <eroomde> Rv
[21:48] <RocketBoy> reverse - bottom right
[21:48] <steve_2e0vet> oh test - thats fixed it cheers, whats RV
[21:48] <RocketBoy> reverses mark & space
[21:48] <eroomde> ha
[21:48] <steve_2e0vet> oh yes i mean
[21:49] <eroomde> it's always Rv
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[21:50] <bertrik> but how could it have printed "RTTY t" at the start of the line if Rv needed to be on?
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[21:52] <Laurenceb_> dunno if this is relevant
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> i have a laptop that can't do RTTY as the audio sampling has too much jitter
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> in b4 "audiophile"
[21:54] <mattbrejza> but the jitter provides a 'richness' to the sound that pure digital stuff cant match...
[21:54] <mattbrejza> or something like that
[21:54] <qyx_> digital sound will never be 'rich'!
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[21:55] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: wow. It takes skill to design a soundcard that bad.
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> acer laptop :D
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[22:11] <Willdude123> I was thinking last night. I realised that it's actually impossible to know the exact time
[22:12] <Willdude123> Like how do these big atomic clocks actually know what the time is?
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> They don't. Thye can only measure the flow of time.
[22:13] <eroomde> you're startimg having your existential crises quite young Willdude123
[22:13] <SpeedEvil> They must be set in some other way. GPS is common, and can go down to picoseconds.
[22:14] <Willdude123> eroomde: talking of philosophy I wrote a short monologue in the style of the fall
[22:14] <eroomde> we pick a time datum out of our bums
[22:14] <Willdude123> http://www.booksie.com/religion_and_spirituality/short_story/bob_van_dyke/the-bill-a-short-monologue-by-bob-van-dyke I was bored at school
[22:15] <eroomde> eg the alignment of the planets
[22:15] <eroomde> and we pick a time metric out of our bum
[22:15] <Willdude123> Hmm. Time is so simple
[22:15] <eroomde> eg vibrations of caesium atoms
[22:15] <Willdude123> But so confusing
[22:15] <Willdude123> At the same time
[22:15] <Willdude123> What is a second?
[22:15] <mattbrejza> Willdude123: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRL9IVvuNl8&t=5m43s we just ask it :P
[22:16] <eroomde> 9 billionish wobbles of a caesium atom
[22:16] <Willdude123> What is an hour? 60 seconds of course. What is 60?
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[22:17] <mfa298> if you look around the world (at least if you go back in history a bit) you'll find other systems for spliting the day up.
[22:18] <mfa298> I think somewhere (France ?) tried decimalisation of time
[22:18] <eroomde> they don't answer the question of what is 60 though
[22:18] <Willdude123> I just had an idea
[22:18] <Willdude123> If I ever have a school project on nuclear energy, I'll make an electronic/interactive one before announcing it's powered by uranium
[22:19] <mfa298> and I think Japan used to split the parts of the day into 8 sections but the length of those was based on sunrise/sunset
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[22:19] <Willdude123> I need a link to the uranium ore mentioned
[22:21] <Willdude123> Dammit when did that conversation come up
[22:22] <Willdude123> There was some link to some small license exempt uranium sold on amazon
[22:22] <Willdude123> Or was it uranium
[22:22] <mattbrejza> is this the one with the review 'i left some for 5billion years and half of it was gone' ?
[22:23] <Willdude123> Might bnee
[22:23] <gonzo__> O used to have some Polonium210
[22:23] <Willdude123> Wa that a practical joke?
[22:23] <mattbrejza> http://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Inc-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM
[22:24] <gonzo__> small slither in a perspex coin, used for calibrating radiation detectors
[22:24] <gonzo__> just phones the supplier in the states and they arrived in ajiffy bag
[22:25] <gonzo__> then register them on our sources log, then they became great security
[22:25] <gonzo__> daft
[22:25] <mattbrejza> you have to alert the police/fire if they go missing?
[22:25] <Willdude123> mattbrejza: is that actually genuine?
[22:25] <gonzo__> not sure, never lost any
[22:26] <gonzo__> had to let the fire svc know on their hazards log
[22:26] <mattbrejza> Willdude123: uranium ore is pretty stable
[22:26] <mattbrejza> if you refined it then that would be different
[22:27] <mattbrejza> however i do wonder if this is genuine: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005MR3IVO
[22:27] <gonzo__> ordering fissible materials online could be a prob. imagine if they all dropped through your letter box whilst you were out
[22:27] <mattbrejza> also has amusing reviews
[22:27] <Willdude123> mattbrejza: could you generate elctricity from it?
[22:27] <Willdude123> Are you sure it's legit?
[22:27] <gonzo__> 2nd sun on the sunset. Ah, probably not worth rushing home to let the dog out
[22:28] <mattbrejza> Willdude123: not in ore form
[22:28] <Babs_> willdude123 - read Surely You're Joking Mr Feynman
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[22:28] <gonzo__> have handles a fuel rod. lovely machining on the case, but thats about it
[22:29] <Babs_> some very funny stories about potentially massive and disastrous mistakes with fissile material at Los Alamos
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[22:29] <mattbrejza> you can always get a AA battery and put a radioactive sticker on it. make a machine with lots of random wires and valves and pretned you have a nuclear reactor
[22:30] <mattbrejza> uh you can also buy body bags from amazon
[22:30] <gonzo__> daft things happen with common items on nuclear sites. You take a domestoc smoke detector in and it becomes traceable as a radioactive source. Would cost you 4k£ to have it disposed of
[22:31] <gonzo__> sothey tend to use ir smoke detectors at imfatory prices
[22:31] <gonzo__> in
[22:31] <mattbrejza> 4k doesnt seem much in the overall scheme of things
[22:32] <gonzo__> I got ofered some waterproof ali boxes once, good for roofrack storeage
[22:32] <gonzo__> one careful ownder, prob was he was being sghipped back home, inside
[22:33] <mattbrejza> :/
[22:33] <gonzo__> that's ok, in a bodybak they don't leak much
[22:34] <gonzo__> all getting OT here
[22:34] <mattbrejza> i wonder what the OT:!OT ratio is
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[22:40] <gonzo__> would be intersting to see a postings chart per user
[22:40] <gonzo__> there ar a lot of lurkers in this chan
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[22:42] <Babs_> evening chaps - Eagle libraries with all of the common stuff to build a tracker, NTX2, Ublox etc. - is there a best one to use that has all of the components?
[22:43] <eroomde> someone's hab library
[22:43] <mattbrejza> i think upu has his one on the store pages
[22:44] <eroomde> i think upu has one for most of the stuff he sells
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[22:45] <Babs_> lets have a look
[22:48] <nats`> Babs_ why don't you give a chance to kicad if you're not used to any CAD tool ?
[22:48] <mfa298> I think it's also on Upu's github
[22:49] <Babs_> I guess just because its used commonly on here, I am likely to have a lot of questions so it maybe makes the whole process smoother
[22:50] <nats`> ok :)
[22:52] <Babs_> perfect, got Upu's library. Thanks guys
[22:59] <Babs_> so I said there would be questions....
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[23:00] <Babs_> i've added upu's library in there, and decided to plant the ntx-2 on the board first to check i can do that
[23:00] <Babs_> I clicked "add part", the menu came up and i searched for radiometrix but no joy?
[23:01] <eroomde> is it called radiometrix in the library?
[23:01] <eroomde> can you see upu.lbr or whatever it's called in the list?
[23:01] <Babs_> yes, do I need to "add" it to make it official?
[23:02] <mattbrejza> you might have to find the library in the launcher and check it has a green dot next to it
[23:02] <Willdude123> Babs_: read
[23:02] <eroomde> if you can see it in the add menu then it's already there
[23:03] <eroomde> if you can see it in the main eagle browser window then it doesn't mean it's necessarily linked to your specific project, in which cass right click on it and click 'use'
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[23:03] <Babs_> right click where eroomde - outside the program in a normal window, or within eagle?
[23:03] <eroomde> yo should have two eagle windows open
[23:04] <eroomde> 1) the main eagle navigator window - a tree of libraries, projects etc
[23:04] <eroomde> then a schematic window
[23:04] <Babs_> yes, got those
[23:04] <eroomde> oh 3 windws sorry not 2
[23:04] <eroomde> the third being layout
[23:04] <eroomde> actually probably not a layout yet
[23:04] <eroomde> just the 2 then
[23:04] <eroomde> ok
[23:05] <eroomde> so in the main eagle navigation window, you can right click on ava.lbr and click 'use'
[23:06] <eroomde> the in the schematic window, you can click edit->add
[23:06] <eroomde> and ava should be there in the lbr list
[23:07] <eroomde> and if you click on the dropdown for ava you should see all the components you can add
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[23:09] <Laurenceb_> i don't get why everyone says eagle is hard
[23:09] <Laurenceb_> compared to the competition...
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[23:10] <adwiens> a lot of them haven't tried the competition :P
[23:11] <Babs_> nope, that's not working. clearly doing something wrong.
[23:11] <adwiens> did you click the green dot?
[23:11] <adwiens> that's how I add libraries
[23:11] <adwiens> never used the "use" thing
[23:11] <Babs_> let me post a picture, it doesn't look like the other libraries
[23:11] <Babs_> 2 secs
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[23:12] <adwiens> also, if you're using eagle 5 you can't open eagle 6 libraries. may or may not apply here.
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[23:13] <Babs_> http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/12020571376/
[23:15] <Babs_> i'm on 6.5.0, freeware version
[23:17] <adwiens> Huh, never seen that icon before. I haven't switched to eagle 6 yet, maybe someone else knows?
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> rockoon just got easier
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> http://www.modelrockets.co.uk/shop/aerotech-motors/aerotech-e18-10w-24mm-rms-reloads-p-2865.html
[23:19] <Laurenceb_> "An Explosives Certificate is no longer required but these motors still cannot be posted"
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[23:20] <ibanezmatt13> you can get 29mm 2 grain G motors delivered in the UK
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[23:20] <Laurenceb_> wut
[23:20] <Laurenceb_> this is too easy
[23:20] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, gimme a seck
[23:21] <ibanezmatt13> sec even
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> perchlorate motors too
[23:21] <Laurenceb_> so non sucky isp
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[23:21] <ibanezmatt13> http://rocketsandthings.co.uk/shop/rocket-motors/ap-motors/29mm-2-grain-white-thunder-detail
[23:21] <ibanezmatt13> they're awesome
[23:22] <Laurenceb_> oh those things have really good ISP
[23:22] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, they're fantastic.
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[23:22] <Laurenceb_> right back to sim code to see what it does :D
[23:22] <Babs_> ok, got it sorted. for some reason when i ctrl + c 'd the file it didn't work, but when i dragged it across all ok
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[23:24] <Laurenceb_> http://www.pro38.com/products/pro29/motor/MotorData.php?prodid=116G126-13A
[23:24] <Laurenceb_> sheeeeett
[23:25] <ibanezmatt13> I have that same motor sat on my desk right now :)
[23:25] <ibanezmatt13> in a safe place obv...
[23:25] <Laurenceb_> that thing will go to 100km easy
[23:26] <ibanezmatt13> huh, maybe I don't have that then...
[23:26] <ibanezmatt13> yep, says on my motor G126 pro 29 13A...
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> pity it burns so fast
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> squished payloads :P
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[23:27] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, my rocket predicting software suggests the acceleration is tremendous
[23:29] <ibanezmatt13> https://github.com/ibanezmatt13/NORB-Rocket-Predictor
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> oh thats handy
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> thanks
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> oh waiyt
[23:29] <Laurenceb_> you are working on a rockoon??
[23:30] <ibanezmatt13> noo, don't use my software properly :P Just a little project
[23:30] <Laurenceb_> copycat grrr
[23:30] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: you're messing with rockets?
[23:30] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[23:30] <ibanezmatt13> of course Willdude123 :)
[23:30] <Laurenceb_> im joking, i probably wont get anywhere with this
[23:30] <adwiens> Are you going to put a Pico in the rocket?
[23:30] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah Laurenceb_, I'm gonna be making a freaking huge rocket as a project this year. G motor cluster perhaps, not sure. On the very brink of legality... as always
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> great stuff
[23:31] <Willdude123> ibanezmatt13: awesome
[23:31] <Willdude123> That sound really fun
[23:31] <Willdude123> How you going to fund it? Must cost hundreds?
[23:31] <ibanezmatt13> Willdude123, not that big... :P Maybe as tall as me
[23:32] <Willdude123> That also sounds really really complicated though
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[23:33] <Willdude123> Surely it will cost a lot thougj?
[23:33] <ibanezmatt13> probably Will, but great things do seem to cost a lot
[23:33] <ibanezmatt13> unfortunately
[23:33] <ibanezmatt13> I've saved up a little
[23:34] <Willdude123> Well good luck wit it
[23:35] <ibanezmatt13> lol, thanks!
[23:35] <Willdude123> Why did you laugh out loud?
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[23:38] <ibanezmatt13> because I'm still quite skeptical about the whole thing :D
[23:38] <ibanezmatt13> And massively excited
[23:39] <adwiens> What kinds of motors work at altitude? do estes motors work?
[23:40] <WillTablet> ibanezmatt13: just don't put a warhead on top and you'll be fine
[23:40] <WillTablet> How much might it cost in total?
[23:41] <ibanezmatt13> couldn't tell you Will, not a clue :P
[23:42] <ibanezmatt13> adwiens: Currently looking into it, not sure how the atmospheric pressure and things like that will affect it
[23:43] <WillTablet> Do tethered balloons count as airborne for the purposes of amateur radio licenses?
[23:43] <adwiens> Not sure, I know the FAA distinguishes free from tethered balloons
[23:43] <WillTablet> You could have like a balloon repeater
[23:44] <adwiens> Oh wait you're probably in the UK, or are you?
[23:45] <WillTablet> Mhm
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[23:53] <WillTablet> http://w1mx.mit.edu/balloon-program
[23:55] <Babs_> ibanezmatt13 - are you still on?
[23:55] <ibanezmatt13> indeed, :)
[23:55] <ibanezmatt13> just about
[23:55] <WillTablet> Didn't know MIT did HAB
[23:56] <eroomde> they don't so much anymore
[23:56] <eroomde> that was ben gelb
[23:56] <eroomde> haven't seen him around for a few years
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[23:56] <Babs_> ahhh, worked it out. sorry ibanezmatt13. I couldn't work out why the ublox didn't look like a ublox, then realised that in schematic view it was never going to look the same...sorry.
[23:57] <ibanezmatt13> haha, no worries. :) I've never liked that about Eagle
[23:58] <WillTablet> eroomde: cool
[23:59] <WillTablet> I feel something for MIT, it just seems unbelievably awesome.
[00:00] --- Sun Jan 19 2014