highaltitude.log.20140116

[00:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> That doesn't appear as a link so http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/01/we-hacked-north-korea-with-balloons-and-usb-drives/283106/
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[07:35] <fsphil> morning!!!!!
[07:45] <number10> morning fsphil
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[08:09] <eroomde> morning
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[08:35] <G8JNJ> APJHAB currently a strong signal on http://websdr.suws.org.uk/ - Can't see it listed anywhere though ?
[08:37] <fsphil> very likely a test
[08:38] <eroomde> yes, by that well known member, Alex Pyjamas
[08:39] <fsphil> needs java. not happening
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[08:47] <cm13g09> morning fsphil
[08:48] <fsphil> hiya cm13g09
[08:48] <cm13g09> I appear to have unbroken our internet in the office :)
[08:48] <cm13g09> (it was fairly fundamentally broken)
[08:49] <cm13g09> the joys of a shared connection :)
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[08:55] <fsphil> being without internet must be awful
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[09:02] <cm13g09> fsphil: it wasn't that we didn't have it.....
[09:02] <cm13g09> it's just that it didn't always work :P
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[09:51] <eroomde> stm32 timer1
[09:51] <eroomde> he is different from timer2 onwards
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[09:52] <eroomde> my code does not portableify as elegently as i would like
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[10:03] <ibanezmatt13> walls hot glued perfectly daveake, as you said. No need for polystyrene glue :)
[10:03] <daveake> cool
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[10:06] <eroomde> don't fly too close to the sun
[10:12] <fsphil> from the description of his batteries his payload may become a second sun
[10:15] <craag> G8JNJ: What's the location on APJHAB?
[10:16] <craag> fsphil: We're trying to get hold of the html5 software for the websdr.. but it's not easy!
[10:17] <fsphil> craag: not complaining, just ranting :)
[10:18] <fsphil> if I knew more about sdr (slowly getting there) I'd write an open source version
[10:18] <G8JNJ> Hi Phil, Don't know but since mentioning it on here it's gone !
[10:18] <fsphil> lol
[10:18] <craag> Join the club then :) It has a fantastic feature that when there's too much jitter on the audio stream, java crashes and pushes white noise at 100% volume to the output device.
[10:19] <fsphil> eek
[10:19] <G8JNJ> Strange SRD on 433933.41 with occasional data bursts though
[10:19] <craag> Doesn't really happen in the UK, but I tried to use it in the middle east over christmas, and it happened every 30s or so.
[10:19] <fsphil> what hardware do you use craag?
[10:20] <craag> for the server end?
[10:20] <fsphil> yea, on the radio side
[10:20] <craag> 3x rtl-sdrs
[10:20] <craag> a lot of preamps and filters
[10:20] <craag> dipole on 2m, dipole on 70cm
[10:21] <Darkside> craag: how much separation from the rpeater antenna
[10:21] <craag> Darkside: 4 or 5m, almost directly below the repeater antenna
[10:21] <Darkside> mmk
[10:22] <Darkside> thats somthing lik 30db isolation
[10:22] <Darkside> which isnt much
[10:22] <craag> We are planning to move the websdr about 50m up the hill
[10:22] <Darkside> cool
[10:22] <Darkside> that'll fix that problem
[10:22] <Darkside> so what bands ar you going to end up with?
[10:22] <Darkside> 6/2/70/23 ?
[10:22] <craag> It'll be next to a cell tower though, so need to check whether that will be an issue.
[10:23] <craag> Next band I think will be 10ghz
[10:23] <Darkside> ok
[10:23] <Darkside> transverter, then tap th eIF with a rtlsdr?
[10:23] <craag> yep
[10:23] <craag> Then probably 6m as we can do that on the triband collinear
[10:24] <craag> Then G8JNJ has some ideas about putting an LF antenna down a disused well there.
[10:24] <Darkside> lol
[10:24] <craag> We'lre currently running into CPU issues though
[10:24] <fsphil> I should put my VLF receiver online
[10:24] <craag> As it appears the websdr core is single-threaded.
[10:25] <G8JNJ> No true it's 250ft deep - Gravity waves !
[10:25] <fsphil> craag: hah
[10:25] <fsphil> we should totally rewrite this
[10:25] <fsphil> fm and am demodulation is easy
[10:25] <fsphil> no idea about ssb or generating the waterfall
[10:25] <craag> fsphil: Peaks to 85% on one core of the core 2 duo with 8 users. And that's for only 3 bands!
[10:26] <craag> So we're looking around for Core i3 used machines, as their single-thread performance is rather good.
[10:26] <fsphil> I hit that flaw with my nestbox video streams
[10:27] <fsphil> the theora encoder is single thread only
[10:27] <fsphil> and many modern cpus are quite poor at that
[10:27] <craag> video encoding is always best done single threaded
[10:27] <fsphil> really needs some kind of hardware accelleration
[10:27] <fsphil> actually the SDR server could too
[10:28] <craag> Pieter's twente websdr uses gpu decoding
[10:28] <craag> opencl I believe
[10:28] <fsphil> it should be quite good at it
[10:29] <craag> mm!
[10:29] <craag> Actually I shall poke another email at him now
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[10:36] <mfa298> might be worth looking at the websdr mikestir started as I think that had several of the basics, might just need some tweaking for multiple recievers (or run multiple copies)
[10:39] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ladar503wepcp8o/CIMG0031.JPG
[10:40] <mikestir> consider swapping in gnuradio for the signal processing, since the lightweight stuff I did is missing most of the useful demodulators.
[10:40] <mfa298> could multiple copies on different ports be a solution for the current twente websdr software (say one copy running 6/2/70, and a 2nd copy for 1.2/10GHz)
[10:40] <craag> eroomde: big balloon!
[10:41] <eroomde> it's a 3kg one
[10:41] <eroomde> about 20kg of free lift
[10:41] <eroomde> which is why i am putting my back into holding it down
[10:41] <craag> mfa298: I suggested that, and Pieter pleaded with me not to.
[10:43] <craag> It mucks up his dynamicly generated list. And he says there's a few things in the code which might have issues running on the same machine as another copy (!!)
[10:44] <mfa298> sounds like he needs to make it more multithreaded
[10:45] <Willdude123> Hello
[10:45] <mfa298> unless it's an issue with threads in java not working accross cpus (my java books are something like Java 1.2 - which shows how long I've managed to stay away from Java)
[10:46] <craag> The server-side is a binary
[10:46] <craag> so probably not java
[10:46] <craag> yep uses libfftw
[10:47] <craag> 194KB - definitely not java
[10:47] <mikestir> does it run all the demodulators in a single thread?
[10:47] <mikestir> for multiple connections?
[10:47] <craag> seems to.. from looking at htop
[10:48] <mikestir> that seems like an obvious optimisation
[10:48] <Willdude123> I like having days off
[10:48] <mikestir> Willdude123: have you decided which HF rig to get yet?
[10:49] <eroomde> make one!
[10:49] <Laurenceb> heh
[10:50] <gonzo__> hardly worth it these days
[10:50] <Laurenceb> rotating solid bodies are counterintuative
[10:50] <eroomde> do some propper copper-clad ugly-construction tranceiver
[10:50] <eroomde> worth it for what?
[10:50] <gonzo__> unless they are spinning around a pule in a strip joint
[10:50] <eroomde> if not to learn
[10:51] <gonzo__> yep, that is true. but expensive
[10:51] <Laurenceb> eroomde: turns out rockoon launcher can be done with strapdown IMU with gyro thats allowed to saturate and a single RCS thruster
[10:51] <Laurenceb> very odd stuff
[10:51] <eroomde> yes, you've told me (without invitation) several times in the last few days
[10:52] <eroomde> i say: bring it
[10:52] <Laurenceb> hehe
[10:52] <Laurenceb> sorry for bothering you lord eroomde
[10:52] <eroomde> i will be impressed and buy you a bottle of champgane if you can get above 75km
[10:52] <Laurenceb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSHaCzb3yYk
[10:53] <Darkside> lord eroomde
[10:53] <Darkside> hah
[10:53] <Laurenceb> ok im tempted...
[10:53] Action: Laurenceb buys his Estes D motor
[10:54] <craag> OH NO
[10:54] <craag> Starting with Java 7 Update 51, applications without a certificate (i.e. unsigned apps), or missing application Name and Publisher information are blocked by default.
[10:54] <Laurenceb> Java
[10:54] <craag> arrggghh
[10:54] <Laurenceb> your problem right there
[10:55] <craag> And it wouldn't let itself run until it had updated...
[10:56] <eroomde> i'm going to a Tim Hunkin talk ina couple of weeks
[10:56] <eroomde> him off The Secret Life of Machines
[10:56] <mikestir> talk him into making a hab tracker out of a synchronous motor and some cams
[10:57] <eroomde> i suspect he would
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[10:58] <eroomde> a completely analogue tracker would be a fine thing
[10:59] <eroomde> ranging tones
[10:59] <Willdude123> Wow, my local repeater is so strong I can work it with a jumper wire
[10:59] <eroomde> and perhaps modulate pressure information onto the reply tone
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[11:00] <cm13g09> craag: oh fun!
[11:01] <mfa298> Willdude123: standard description would be wet piece of string. Jumper wire is a bit too conductive.
[11:02] <Willdude123> I have an idea
[11:02] <Willdude123> Wet piece of string DX contest
[11:02] <Darkside> i'v been wanting to do this for so long
[11:02] <eroomde> your PA hasn't
[11:02] <Darkside> as the codan 2110 manpack i borrow occasionally can tune almost anything
[11:03] <Darkside> so i wanted to tune a bit of string, soaked in salty water
[11:03] <Darkside> and see if i can work people
[11:05] <gonzo__> the z may drift
[11:05] <gonzo__> as it dries out
[11:07] Action: mfa298 wonders what losses would occur due to electrolyis
[11:07] Action: Willdude123 registers wetpieceofstringdx.org
[11:07] <gonzo__> just rf heating
[11:07] <Darkside> gonzo__: yeah lol
[11:07] <mikestir> risk of rf burns and chlorine poisoning :)
[11:08] <Darkside> man i really want to try this now
[11:08] <gonzo__> just hold yopur finger on the tune button of the aut
[11:08] <Darkside> ahh the manpack will just tune as required
[11:08] <Darkside> eeeeasy
[11:08] <eroomde> maybe put your hand near a cap
[11:08] <mfa298> mikestir: and risk of explosion (H2 as well as Cl)
[11:08] <Darkside> so you start a contact
[11:08] <Darkside> and hav to finish it early because the string is on fire
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[11:08] <Willdude123> Anyone want to join me in setting up the wet piece of string contest? Pfft who cares about explosions
[11:09] <eroomde> pulled a pair of very nice vacuum variable caps from some test equipment
[11:09] <gonzo__> did see some writepus of using trees as a vertical radiator. Tapping a nail part way up as a feed point
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[11:09] <craag> mikestir: websdr server-side htop http://imgur.com/MD7NJsa
[11:09] <Darkside> gonzo__: dosnt work very well
[11:09] <eroomde> no test equipment, so military scrap equipment
[11:09] <Darkside> i've tried that
[11:09] <gonzo__> swiss army (?) have used similar for comms in the field
[11:09] <Willdude123> Saltwater probably doesn't electrolyse so well
[11:09] <mikestir> craag: can you gprof it?
[11:10] <craag> mikestir: errm don't you need to compile it with symbols in to do that?
[11:10] <mfa298> Willdude123: salt water does electrolysis better than plain water (and gives off Cl and H2)
[11:11] <mikestir> craag: yes - is that not an option?
[11:11] <craag> mikestir: Closed-source binary :((((
[11:11] <mfa298> although as RF is relatively high frequency AC I doubt there would be much electrolysis happening
[11:12] <mikestir> aren't you in touch with the author? maybe you could talk him into it
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[11:12] <craag> mikestir: We've been trying for years.. I'm about to send him that pic now.
[11:13] <mikestir> I'd like to spend more time on webradio, but it's not that high up my list and kid number 2 arrived at the weekend, so the rate that list gets shorter just got even lower!
[11:15] <mfa298> oh nice looks like one of the "local" repeaters is back on air - GB3JB - I say local, it's not that local but probably the closest operational one.
[11:16] <eroomde> what joy
[11:16] <eroomde> what good fortune
[11:16] <eroomde> i beam with the force of a thousand suns
[11:17] <mfa298> we've had a lot of repeaters around here going off air due to various reasons, it's nice to see that trend changing.
[11:18] <mfa298> plus that's a slightly more innovative repeater - there's no mains power at the site.
[11:18] <Ericc_> Can the arduino connect with handhold radio and send signal to the ground?
[11:19] <eroomde> yes
[11:19] <eroomde> with a bit of interfacing electronics of course
[11:19] <mikestir> up here, the stockport repeater appears to be going through a phase of opening itself up and playing tunes
[11:20] <Willdude123> mfa298: was that the "green" one?
[11:20] <eroomde> note that that guide won't help much for a handheld radio
[11:20] <daveake> true
[11:20] <daveake> I shall return to sleep
[11:22] <Willdude123> Might be able to get it round Oakley.
[11:22] <Willdude123> Will go for a walk and see
[11:23] <Ericc_> NTX2s frequency is not available in my country and we have an APRS system at 144.64 mHz
[11:24] <Ericc_> Can I use the radio interphone?
[11:24] <eroomde> you'll need to generate audio tones to put into your handheld radio
[11:24] <eroomde> into the line-in
[11:25] <Ericc_> can arduino do this?
[11:26] <eroomde> yes
[11:26] <eroomde> you'll need to do a bit of interfacing electronics though
[11:27] <eroomde> if you have no idea what that involves then you've got a bit of learning to do
[11:27] <eroomde> but that's fine, that's why we do hab afterall
[11:27] <Ericc_> hab?
[11:27] <eroomde> high altitude ballooning
[11:29] <Ericc_> Anyone try to use handheld radio to send signal before?
[11:29] <eroomde> yes loads
[11:29] <eroomde> it's easy
[11:30] <blackhair> Hi friends, what do you think about scrollback.io for highaltitude website? http://jsbin.com/epErEWam/1
[11:30] <blackhair> Scrollback is a free and open source web chat tool, which also works with IRC
[11:31] <Ericc_> they also use arduino ?
[11:31] <eroomde> Ericc_: i don't know but that's not an important question
[11:31] <eroomde> you could do it with any microcontroller, the principles are the same
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[11:31] <sb-cussol> t
[11:31] <adamgreig> wat.
[11:32] <blackhair> hi sb-cussol
[11:32] <sb-cussol> admittedly a cute irc client
[11:32] <eroomde> Ericc_: because it's not an 'arduino' question really
[11:32] <sb-cussol> noto sure about whether it should be on the ukhas website though
[11:32] <eroomde> you just need something that can generate pulses of the right freuqnecy
[11:32] <eroomde> and then a bit of filtering and level-conversion
[11:32] <eroomde> then you put that into your radio
[11:32] <Miek> i'd say just link to https://webchat.freenode.net/ if you want to give people a webchat option
[11:33] <adamgreig> indeed
[11:34] <Ericc_> Any information about this in our wiki?
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[11:34] <eroomde> Ericc_: probably not because we don't do it with aprs in the UK
[11:34] <eroomde> do you know how APRS works? what it looks like?
[11:35] <blackhair> adamgreig, miek, Scrollback is designed to make it easy for users to join that chat. Even users who have not used IRC earlier can use scrollback
[11:35] <Ericc_> send GPSs sound signal to the ground then receive it post the data to the net?
[11:35] <adamgreig> yea but so does freenode webchat?
[11:36] <eroomde> Ericc_: no, i mean what the aprs signal looks like
[11:36] <eroomde> lower level
[11:36] <eroomde> what a voltage-vs-time plot would look like of what you need to put into the radio
[11:36] <blackhair> free node does not look good ( If I may say so (: )
[11:36] <Ericc_> no
[11:36] <eroomde> ok, look that up first
[11:37] <Willdude123> I have a feeling I might look a bit dodgy walking around with a handheld radio
[11:37] <eroomde> these are the questions you need to be asking. writing code for the arduino is easy
[11:38] <Ericc_> thank you I search for informations now
[11:38] <blackhair> a user who comes into a scrollback has access to the conversations that are happening in the room. So he know the context already
[11:39] <blackhair> Also without using a client, he will be kept informed if he is mentioned in the chat even after he has left the website (requires login)
[11:40] <blackhair> many mozilla, some crypto currency and open source projects are already using scrollback
[11:40] <eroomde> crypto curreny eh?
[11:40] <eroomde> must be good then
[11:41] <blackhair> i.e. mozillaindia.org
[11:41] <eroomde> irssi session in tmux on a remote server
[11:41] <eroomde> there, done
[11:41] <eroomde> here's a nickel kid
[11:41] <eroomde> etc
[11:42] <eroomde> i don't actually object to that enormously
[11:42] <Willdude123> I was into crypto currency once
[11:42] <eroomde> yes but you're a teenager
[11:42] <Willdude123> I know
[11:42] <eroomde> that's a time for experimentation and doing stupid things
[11:42] <Willdude123> I didn't know what I was doing
[11:42] <eroomde> then you learn better
[11:42] <Willdude123> So I sold them
[11:42] <UpuWork> lol
[11:42] <eroomde> when you get to my age
[11:42] <blackhair> lol
[11:42] <Willdude123> Now I know not to play with money or set yo-yos on fire for kicks
[11:42] <Willdude123> :P
[11:43] <blackhair> heh
[11:43] <Willdude123> Ahem ahem
[11:43] <eroomde> i actually don't object to having the irc channel more obviously there on the ukhas page
[11:43] <UpuWork> other life lessons I'll share with you. If your Sister annoys you don't set fire to her watch or you'll spend 4 hours in casualty as they pick exploded battery out of your eye
[11:43] <eroomde> likewise i've spoken to several people recently who know about the predictor but not ukhas
[11:43] <adamgreig> the predictor seems to get around
[11:43] <eroomde> is that why you were in for eye surgery just before christmas?
[11:43] <UpuWork> no
[11:44] <UpuWork> that was just a scratched cornea when I was 14
[11:44] <eroomde> ouch
[11:44] <Willdude123> UpuWork: I get on relatively OK with my sister
[11:44] <UpuWork> ok there you go then
[11:45] <Willdude123> Well because she sorta needs me sometimes. Like for sending her a picture of her passport so she can get into the cinema
[11:45] <Willdude123> And I can occasionally help with her physics homework
[11:45] <blackhair> upuwoks you would have had a pissed sister and a troubled eye
[11:45] <blackhair> Eye ok now?
[11:46] <UpuWork> sort of
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[11:46] <UpuWork> could be better but this is unrelated to the exploding sisters watch incident
[11:46] <Willdude123> I must admit that if I'd have kept my crypto currency, it'd be worth a hell of a lot more at times but I'd never know when to sell it and I'd just make stupid decisions
[11:47] <Willdude123> So for now it's just best to deal with real money and make sure I don't waste it
[11:48] <blackhair> I sit in bitcoin channel and there I heard the story of the 1st bitcoin transaction: they paid a local pizza store 30 bitcoins for a slice of pizza (Seems convincing the shop owner that the long sequence of hashes do have some value was the fun part)
[11:48] <Willdude123> I think we should have personal finance taught in schools
[11:48] <fsphil> hah, 30
[11:49] <UpuWork> I jumped on the bit coin bandwagon once and got 0.5 a coin before I decided it was a total waste of imte.
[11:50] <blackhair> yeah and another one - he wiped a part of his disk which stored 1600 coins to download a movie from torrent. (this was before bitcoin made any news)
[11:50] <blackhair> that was a million dollar movie, I would say
[11:50] <fsphil> cheap compared to what the RIAA seem to price movies at
[11:51] <blackhair> yeah I know, they made isohunt owner pay like a $135mln, poor chat
[11:51] <fsphil> MPAA even
[11:51] <blackhair> *chap
[11:51] <fsphil> wrong *AA
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[11:53] <Willdude123> UpuWork: what price?
[11:53] <Willdude123> Stores accepting BTC is a bad idea
[11:53] <UpuWork> del wallet.dat
[11:54] <UpuWork> no price just deleted it
[11:54] <eroomde> '/topic'
[11:54] <jonsowman> mm
[11:54] <Willdude123> It's as silly as buying DMs straight after WW2.
[11:54] <Willdude123> Oh yah balloons
[11:54] <fsphil> are only one method of reaching high altitudes
[11:54] <blackhair> hey eroomde: who should I talk to check the possibility of deploying scrollback on the uhas.org.uk
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[11:55] <blackhair> would really appreciate if you guys use it and provide your feedback
[11:55] <Willdude123> "IRC is one  it is the great grand-daddy of social text chat  but it predates the web and most users find it hopelessly complex and archaic."
[11:56] <Willdude123> I disagree
[11:56] <adamgreig> the first and easiest thing would be adding a link to it on http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:irc_channel
[11:56] <adamgreig> in that editing the wiki is a thing any member can do and is generally maintained by consensus
[11:56] <adamgreig> actually adding the javascript for it to every page on the wiki is a somewhat trickier proposition
[11:56] <Willdude123> UpuWork: you could have at least sold it surely?
[11:57] <Willdude123> Suppose it is quite hard to sell
[12:01] <blackhair> ok adamgreig: are you suggesting that I make the edit and add the chat?
[12:04] <adamgreig> yes
[12:04] <blackhair> sure will do
[12:05] <adamgreig> you may need your wiki account approving manually (spam issues), shout if so
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[12:14] <blackhair> It says the page is read only. might need your help on userid: gjsrivastava to be able to edit
[12:16] <adamgreig> try now
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[13:43] <pilgrimpaul> Hi all
[13:44] <pilgrimpaul> Is there anyone from the Cambridge University Space Flight Team about?
[13:44] <craag> (obviously won't be once in production, but is ok for now)
[13:44] <craag> oops
[13:44] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: ex CUSF here, for what it's worth
[13:45] <pilgrimpaul> Hiya, I'm looking for some support for my students in Plymouth for a launch that we are hoping to take place in July
[13:47] <eroomde> ah, you probably do then want a current person if you want to use the site
[13:47] <pilgrimpaul> To be able to do this in affiliation with CUSF would be a brilliant opportunity for our school
[13:47] <mattbrejza> pilgrimpaul: we (southampton space flight) launch from the new forest
[13:48] <mattbrejza> somewhat nearer for you im guessing
[13:48] <craag> Southampton Uni Spaceflight: http://susf.co.uk/
[13:48] <pilgrimpaul> Hi Matt :) I believe I've spoke with yourself in the past
[13:48] <mattbrejza> yea i think so
[13:48] <UpuWork> I'm Yorkshire Space flight www.ayeupnaway.yorkshire
[13:49] <mattbrejza> i have to go for a while though, so you can send an email to us, or speak to craag who is also involved
[13:49] <eroomde> you fly anywhere except south, right UpuWork
[13:49] <UpuWork> correct
[13:49] <UpuWork> not worth going too
[13:49] <craag> UpuWork: Soo disappointed that url didn't work :(
[13:49] <UpuWork> geofenced yorkshire
[13:49] <pilgrimpaul> I believe Matt is probably the closest to us in Plymouth
[13:49] <UpuWork> cuts down before it leaves
[13:50] <pilgrimpaul> I'm hoping to launch from our school but will be wether dependant living so close to the sea
[13:50] <UpuWork> depends which sea
[13:50] <UpuWork> if you're west you should be ok
[13:50] <pilgrimpaul> English Channel
[13:50] <eroomde> plymouth should be ok
[13:50] <UpuWork> yeah
[13:50] <eroomde> so what does affiliation mean in this context?
[13:51] <pilgrimpaul> We're on the Devon/Cornwall border but have plenty of moorland to the north of us
[13:51] <mattbrejza> this is the current prediction for the new forest http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/susf/
[13:51] <pilgrimpaul> I'm looking at launching the project to our KS3 students this term
[13:51] <mattbrejza> bbl
[13:51] <pilgrimpaul> It would be great to set up a web chat with some of the guys on here who have successfully launched in the past
[13:51] <craag> Heh, with that prediction you could launch in plymouth and drop it on southampton :)
[13:52] <pilgrimpaul> a Q&A session
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[13:53] <pilgrimpaul> We were going to look at using the SPOT GPS gadget to recover the balloon but after chatting on here I feel we should go the whole hog and look at building some radio equipment
[13:53] <pilgrimpaul> <----- noob
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[13:53] <UpuWork> +1 for that idea
[13:53] <UpuWork> SPOT is great if you don't want to get your payload back *
[13:54] <UpuWork> *on some occasions. Its better than GSM trackers (~50% recovery) but can have issues if it lands upside down
[13:54] <craag> pilgrimpaul: Sure. Matt knows a bit more about the mechanics of a school launch than myself and has had to run off. But if you get in touch with SUSF then we can set something up with a few of us.
[13:54] <craag> And yes, radio is the only option really.
[13:54] <pilgrimpaul> Craag that would be fab
[13:54] <pilgrimpaul> whats the best email address to use?
[13:55] <eroomde> we can definitely do webchat/q+a things
[13:55] <craag> admin@susf.co.uk
[13:55] <pilgrimpaul> Thank you
[13:55] <eroomde> what age is KS3?
[13:55] <eroomde> i can never keep up with the lingo
[13:55] <pilgrimpaul> 11 - 14
[13:55] <pilgrimpaul> :)
[13:56] <eroomde> ok great
[13:56] <eroomde> two of us at my job, we both ran CUSF once upon a time, are keen to do some more schools stuff
[13:56] <eroomde> we work on rockets now
[13:57] <pilgrimpaul> Sounds interesting, do you do it as a hobby?
[13:57] <eroomde> infact we designed an engine suitable for school demos yesterday when we had to cancel our plans due to propellent supplier no-show
[13:57] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: nope, both professional
[13:57] <eroomde> we're working on a new kind of rocket engine for a novel re-usable space launcher
[13:57] <eroomde> which is being developed here in oxford
[13:58] <pilgrimpaul> Does Jon Sowman from CUSF come in here often?
[13:59] <eroomde> jonsowman: ^
[13:59] <craag> Yep, he's with us at SUSF now :)
[13:59] Action: UpuWork points at jonsowman
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[13:59] <eroomde> oh yes
[13:59] <eroomde> traitor
[13:59] <pilgrimpaul> Good stuff
[13:59] <craag> haha
[13:59] <eroomde> CUSF undergrad SUSF postgrad
[14:01] Nick change: KyleYankan -> ThePaintingMan
[14:02] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: here is here yes
[14:02] <eroomde> just probably not infront of a screen right now
[14:02] <pilgrimpaul> Do you have any links to previous launches?
[14:03] <eroomde> thousands
[14:03] <eroomde> whatcha wanna know?
[14:04] <eroomde> i'll just start flinking links to things
[14:04] <Babs_> post the link up to the speed controller shut down airship alps thing eroomde
[14:04] <eroomde> ok
[14:04] <eroomde> though that's a bit OT
[14:04] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: schools stuff, we've always quite liked
[14:05] <Babs_> it is my second favourite link after the arko "on his own" spacenear
[14:05] <eroomde> the one we did that arbitrarily got a bit viral was teddies in space
[14:05] <eroomde> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7767376.stm
[14:05] <eroomde> here's a gallery to a nice summer launch
[14:05] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157624203062811/
[14:05] <eroomde> we had several group's payloads, i think 4 in total, under one balloon
[14:05] <eroomde> they're all sort-of shoebox sized
[14:06] <eroomde> that's at churchill college in cambridge, our launch site
[14:06] <eroomde> here's a video of a luch: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/4721830907/in/set-72157624203062811
[14:06] <eroomde> you can see me walking along letting the line go up
[14:06] <craag> We have a teddy bear one too! http://susf.co.uk/launches/physoc-outreach-launch-2/
[14:07] <eroomde> yes everybody has done bloody teddy bears since then
[14:07] <daveake> lol
[14:07] <craag> hehe
[14:07] <eroomde> all i want for christmas is no more teddies in space
[14:07] Action: daveake walks away from keyboard
[14:08] <daveake> are frogs ok? I did a frog :p
[14:08] <craag> and a mouse: http://susf.co.uk/launches/catmose-college-launch/
[14:08] <eroomde> more pics of teds in space launch http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/sets/72157621752468298/
[14:08] <craag> even a creeper! http://susf.co.uk/launches/physoc-outreach-launch-1/
[14:08] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/cuspaceflight/3740071029/in/set-72157621752468298
[14:09] <eroomde> you can do things with multiple balloons
[14:09] <eroomde> http://vimeo.com/3803248
[14:10] <eroomde> it's very peaceful up at altitude
[14:10] <eroomde> http://vimeo.com/1640214
[14:10] <Babs_> didn't daveake do a wedding dress?
[14:10] <eroomde> but going through the jetstream can be a hell of a ride
[14:10] <eroomde> http://vimeo.com/1598522
[14:10] <daveake> a model one, yes
[14:11] <Babs_> size zero wedding dress
[14:12] <daveake> http://www.daveakerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/944551_164817007016545_1055776852_n.jpg
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[14:13] <mfa298> is Hix having an identity crisis ?
[14:13] <pilgrimpaul> Just been showing the links to a student
[14:13] <pilgrimpaul> :)
[14:13] <Babs_> IRC hokey cokey
[14:14] <eroomde> we did a project to test parachutes for a mars lander once
[14:14] <eroomde> we designed a vehicle that would freefall to a point that had the right mach number and air density is the conditions the parachute would face on mars
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[14:14] <eroomde> it's extrememly hard/impossible to create these conditions in a wind tunnel
[14:15] <eroomde> but at some point between sea-level and space there'll be a point with the right desnity
[14:15] <eroomde> mars is about 1% earth's surface pressure
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[14:17] <eroomde> i gave a whole talk on that at a ukhas conference a couple of years ago, if you want more details
[14:18] Nick change: Hix -> Guest66083
[14:18] <Babs_> the smallest and highest margin bearing ever created by man http://imgur.com/HYeueq8
[14:19] <eroomde> for your gimbal?
[14:19] <Babs_> pico gimbal
[14:19] <Babs_> atto gimbal
[14:19] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: Babs_ is building a pan/tilt platform to photograph the eclipse and the shadow odf the moon on the earth from high altitude in 2017
[14:19] <Babs_> pico is sooooo 2013
[14:20] <Babs_> pilgrimpaul: Babs_ is attempting to build a pan/tilt platform to photograph the eclipse and the shadow odf the moon on the earth from high altitude in 2017. Eroomde is more optimistic than me.
[14:20] <Babs_> but I have factored in the paucity of mobile coverage in middle Murica in the past week so its satellite comms all the way now
[14:21] <eroomde> i have great confidence in your abilities
[14:22] <Babs_> this went off to print this morning http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/11981111324/
[14:23] <eroomde> very nice
[14:23] <Babs_> they have totally changed their pricing structure and now just charge on total swept volume
[14:23] <Babs_> its become massively more cost effective
[14:23] <Babs_> 10p/cm3 of swept volume
[14:24] <eroomde> if it packs nicely
[14:24] <Babs_> you can just jam in as many parts as possible into the build volume
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[14:24] <Babs_> its changed 3d printing into a packing problem
[14:30] <pilgrimpaul> Whats a gimbal? Is that the device in the pic?
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[14:31] <eroomde> pan and tilt mount
[14:31] <eroomde> for pointing the camera
[14:33] <eroomde> or for pointing anything really
[14:33] <eroomde> we have a gimbal on a rocket we're building to move the motor around so it should be able to hover
[14:33] <pilgrimpaul> ah ok :)
[14:33] <pilgrimpaul> thanks
[14:34] <Babs_> gimbal http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8461544439/in/set-72157632733154985
[14:34] <Babs_> and gimbal http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/8465729865/in/set-72157632733154985/
[14:35] <Babs_> eroomde's gimbal will be slightly hardier than mine I feel
[14:36] <eroomde> yes it's a fairly hefty stainless steel universal joint
[14:36] <Babs_> but if he makes his rocket one out of a highly brittle and weak polymer and it works I am totally going after him for royalties
[14:37] <pilgrimpaul> When it comes to launching into space there are a few things that we have already purchased...
[14:37] <pilgrimpaul> We have the HAB and parachute
[14:37] <pilgrimpaul> along with Go Pro Cam
[14:37] <eroomde> testing a parachute system before a balloon flight
[14:37] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jxtpm3zfoophzz3/01%20-%20Lift%20%28IMG_5399%29.JPG
[14:37] <pilgrimpaul> haha
[14:38] <pilgrimpaul> any ideas where I can borrow a chopper?
[14:38] <pilgrimpaul> lol
[14:38] <eroomde> *near*-space
[14:38] <eroomde> space starts at 100km
[14:38] <pilgrimpaul> ah thanks for the correction :)
[14:38] <eroomde> pet-peeve round these parts
[14:39] YO9ICT (~YO9ICT@leu-a1.eregie.pub.ro) left irc:
[14:39] <pilgrimpaul> lol... I'm a quick learner, won't happen again :)
[14:39] <eroomde> so you'll need the tracker system as you've already identified
[14:39] <eroomde> and some helium or hydrogen, and a filling system which is really just some hoses and fitting to get the gas for cylinder to balloon
[14:40] <pilgrimpaul> How difficult are these to build for a complete novice? and 11 - 14 year olds
[14:40] <eroomde> with our help, really not too bad
[14:40] <pilgrimpaul> Really appreciate all your help
[14:40] <eroomde> we have had bright 14 y.o.'s do it all themselves from scratch before
[14:41] <eroomde> though they're usually out on the right of the bell-curve
[14:41] <eroomde> and now running CUSF
[14:42] <pilgrimpaul> :)
[14:42] <eroomde> but yes it's quite doable
[14:42] <eroomde> there's lots of interesting stuff to be done
[14:42] <eroomde> eg calibrating a thermistor circuit to tell you the temperature as you go up
[14:42] <eroomde> or programming the canon cameras to take pictures, which is done in a very basic-like language
[14:43] <pilgrimpaul> Extra components to measure temp/wind speed / height etc would be useful
[14:43] <eroomde> which is a nice introduction to programming, where you can do for loops and so on
[14:43] <eroomde> height can come from gps
[14:43] <eroomde> but you can also do pressure
[14:43] <eroomde> wind speed is just your speed
[14:43] <eroomde> which comes from gps
[14:43] <pilgrimpaul> ok
[14:44] <pilgrimpaul> We bought a 1600g Hwoyee Weather Balloon
[14:44] <pilgrimpaul> and 1 x RocketMan 5ft Balloon Chute
[14:45] <Babs_> you can actually use a canon camera with chdk to also record the temperature http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/7335579438/in/set-72157629918448066
[14:45] <craag> Sounds good.
[14:45] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: that sounds perfect
[14:45] <eroomde> you should get nice and high
[14:46] <eroomde> Babs_: i had no idea about that
[14:46] <eroomde> cool
[14:46] <eroomde> yeah when we did teds in space (10-11 y.o.) the graphs were so useful
[14:46] <eroomde> as at that stage it's really just about basic familiartiy with graphs
[14:46] <Babs_> who would have thunk that a camera had three thermometers on it before i started this
[14:46] <eroomde> like we could see the temperature dropped from about 20C to about 5C at 9.30am
[14:47] <eroomde> what was that?
[14:47] <eroomde> [lots of thought]
[14:47] <eroomde> then they realise it's when we went from inside the prep room to outside to set up for launch
[14:47] <eroomde> i mean, seems sort of basic, but actually it's all about interpreting the data infront of you in terms of what's actually happening
[14:48] <eroomde> one little girl asked a really clever question
[14:48] <eroomde> we were calculating how long a 4gb memory card would last if you took a picture every 15s or whatever
[14:48] <eroomde> she wondered why the hpegs were different filesizes even though they're the same number of pixels
[14:49] <eroomde> jpegs*
[14:49] <eroomde> that's really quite an astute question
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:49] <pilgrimpaul> A primary school student?
[14:49] <eroomde> so i sort of tried to start tawlking about entropy and compressability (without using those exact words) and she totally got it
[14:49] <eroomde> she would have been 10
[14:49] <Babs_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8o5fxnDUjs
[14:49] <pilgrimpaul> That's brilliant!
[14:50] <eroomde> and she said 'ah so just a picture of the black sky can be made much smaller than a picture with complicated clouds and stuff, becuase that has mroe details?'
[14:50] <eroomde> she totally got it
[14:50] <SpeedEvil> :)
[14:50] <pilgrimpaul> Have you guys been involved with many launches where the payload was never recovered?
[14:50] <eroomde> back in the day, before we wrote the flight predictor, times were hard
[14:51] <eroomde> the hab version of when catching flu would kill you
[14:51] <eroomde> but sincve we wrote that, the recovery rate (where you actually want to recovery) must be in the 80-90%s
[14:51] <eroomde> probably 90%s
[14:51] <Willdude123> Decided to practice my spanish today
[14:51] <pilgrimpaul> Were you involved in the software?
[14:51] <Willdude123> http://i.imgur.com/aNo3VEI.png <-- no I'm not, not in that sense at least
[14:51] <eroomde> is this going to be on topic Willdude123?
[14:52] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: yes, though only in the v early versions
[14:52] <eroomde> before it become a super nice webapp
[14:52] <Willdude123> Erm el HAB is tres cool
[14:52] <eroomde> it used to just be a command line C++ thing
[14:52] <pilgrimpaul> Its very impressive now
[14:52] <gonzo__> nop it isn't. They are not alowed HAB in france
[14:52] <pilgrimpaul> A clever bit of software
[14:53] <pilgrimpaul> how come Gonzo?
[14:53] <eroomde> that and the distributed listener are what bring people to UKHAS
[14:53] <eroomde> and they channel is friendly and helpful
[14:53] <eroomde> the*
[14:53] <pilgrimpaul> I found the channel very welcoming last time I was here also
[14:53] <eroomde> before the rpedictor we'd look at the wind forecasts for the jetsream
[14:54] <eroomde> and kinda go off that
[14:54] <eroomde> they had them with colour gradients
[14:54] <pilgrimpaul> Some very generous people willing to share their ideas
[14:54] <eroomde> we'd say 'ooooh... looks a bit pink to me'
[14:54] <gonzo__> I believe thet have difficulty getting permission from french authorities to launch balloons
[14:54] <eroomde> and that was the extent of the scientificness of our go/no-go launch decision
[14:54] <Willdude123> How can they arrest someone for not giving police decryption keys? Isn't it reasonable to say "I forgot" ?
[14:54] <eroomde> is this going to be on topic Willdude123?
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[14:55] <gonzo__> eroomde, is now known as Will-bot
[14:55] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: Willdude123 is in your target agegroup I believe
[14:56] <eroomde> he's been building a tracker
[14:56] <eroomde> and has just got his amateur radio license
[14:56] <Willdude123> Yes, indeed I have
[14:56] <pilgrimpaul> Hi Will
[14:56] <Willdude123> eroomde: ever so slightly, but that said data correction is sort of on topic and encryption is slightly linked
[14:56] <Willdude123> Hey pilgrimpaul
[14:56] <pilgrimpaul> How long have you been working on your tracker?
[14:56] <Willdude123> A while :)
[14:56] iain_g4sgx (~yahalimu@137.158.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #highaltitude.
[14:57] <Willdude123> SMD components are tricky, that's what takes all the time for me
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[14:57] <eroomde> yeah, you went into the deep end when learning to solder
[14:57] <Willdude123> Will start work on it again soon
[14:57] <eroomde> but all the better for it :)
[14:57] <pilgrimpaul> are there any tutorials online?
[14:57] <Willdude123> pilgrimpaul: so are you similarly aged (I'm 13)
[14:58] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: that guide is good for connecting up the radio and sending text down
[14:58] <pilgrimpaul> lol not really... I'm 35 but looking to launch with a group of students in the summer who are 11 - 14
[14:59] <pilgrimpaul> Looking at that guide, I think I have a long way to go with the terminology
[14:59] <eroomde> sure
[14:59] <Willdude123> Right. Well, to be honest if you are trying to engage them it's usually best to not go into too much detail about modulation techniques and things. I've certainly found that few other people my age have the attention span to learn how rtty works
[14:59] <eroomde> it's a learning curve, but doable
[14:59] <eroomde> what I'd do first is buy yourself an arduino
[14:59] <eroomde> and get an LED blinking with it
[15:00] <eroomde> then you can just add on new concepts step-by-step
[15:00] <pilgrimpaul> Can I ask what an Arduino is without looking a dumb arse?
[15:00] <eroomde> ofcourse
[15:00] <Willdude123> pilgrimpaul: of course
[15:00] <eroomde> it's a very-popular microcontroller board
[15:00] <Willdude123> pilgrimpaul: we all had to ask once
[15:00] <eroomde> it is designed to make it easy to start using microcontrollers
[15:01] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://arduino.cc/
[15:01] <eroomde> which are the heart of a tracker - they talk to the gps to get the position, can talk to pressure and temp sensors, and then can construct a 'string' (or packet or whatever) of telemetry and send it over the radio
[15:01] <Willdude123> Or even amateur radio for that matter. They seem to think I'd be broadcasting and playing tracks and acting like one of those DJs who prattle on. Not to discourage you of course. Have they specifically expressed an interest or are they being dragged along?
[15:02] <Geoff-G8DHE> Another aspect would be to monitor the Weather Sondes and collect some data
[15:02] <eroomde> they're designed to be quite simple and cheap and there's a lot of resources and tutorials for them on the internet
[15:02] <eroomde> and in this channel of course
[15:02] <eroomde> yeah, the other thing you can do is to get a radio and start listening to other people's balloons
[15:02] <eroomde> and that'sd a very good way of demystifying that aspect of it for when you start building your own tracker
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[15:03] Action: Willdude123 wonders if to buy a proper soldering iron
[15:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> A simple cheap method is the RTL-SDR dongles available for a £10-£20 quid a Windows laptop and an aerial
[15:03] <Willdude123> pilgrimpaul: what country are you in?
[15:04] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: he's in plymouth
[15:04] <eroomde> er, Willdude123 even
[15:04] <eroomde> should be landing habs on your head
[15:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:sdr_tracker?s[]=rtlsdr
[15:04] <eroomde> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FARNELL-MODEL-XA35-2T-35-VOLT-2-AMP-BENCH-POWER-SUPPLY-DIGITAL-DISPLAY-/261366120248?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item3cdaa27f38
[15:04] <pilgrimpaul> Is Willdude in Southampton?
[15:04] <eroomde> bargain
[15:04] <SiC> hmm
[15:04] <Willdude123> pilgrimpaul: Bstoke
[15:05] <SiC> is genuine dupont Kapton tape flamable?
[15:05] <SiC> just bought some "kapton" tape off ebay and burns like a sparkler
[15:05] <SiC> under a flame
[15:05] <eroomde> SiC: sound suspicious
[15:06] <SiC> yea, just a bit
[15:06] <Willdude123> eroomde: is amateur radio on topic?
[15:06] <eroomde> ofc
[15:06] <SiC> Kapton® is synthesized by polymerizing an aromatic dianhydride and an aromatic diamine. It has excellent chemical resistance; there are no known organic solvents for the film. Kapton® does not melt or burn as it has the highest UL-94 flammability rating: V-0. The outstanding properties of Kapton® permit it to be used at both high and low temperature extremes where other organic polymeric
[15:06] <SiC> materials would not be functional.
[15:06] <eroomde> yeah, we use it on/near rocket engines
[15:06] <eroomde> never known it to burn
[15:07] <Willdude123> pilgrimpaul: it's completely superfluous to doing a hab project but have you considered going in to amateur radio?
[15:07] <pilgrimpaul> Wouldn't know where to star
[15:07] <pilgrimpaul> start
[15:07] <eroomde> SiC: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Farnell-triple-output-power-supply-Tops-3D-6v-17v-17v-/261374766805?hash=item3cdb266ed5
[15:07] <eroomde> do you think that's one of the old thurlby-thandar rebadges?
[15:07] <SiC> could be
[15:08] <SiC> I find it unlikely that farnell ever made psus
[15:08] <pilgrimpaul> Are we referring to amateur radio as the old CB Radios?
[15:08] <eroomde> Willdude123: in general, technical things are on-topic, every goes a bit off-topic sometimes, but launching into plainly political stuff is definitely off-topic
[15:08] <pilgrimpaul> or am I completely off track?
[15:08] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: amateur radio epople are very snooty about CB radio but the similar idea
[15:08] <craag> pilgrimpaul: It's similar.
[15:08] <eroomde> it's being licensed to to transmit on certain frequencies and powers
[15:09] <eroomde> a lot of the people who listen to help track balloons are radio hams
[15:09] <craag> Amateur Radio is bit more technically involved. There's a licensing procedure and you get to use more frequencies and higher power than CB.
[15:09] <eroomde> radio ham being osmeone with an amateur radio (or ham radio) license
[15:09] <pilgrimpaul> I'm still trying to get my head around how I would listen to a balloon flight via radio?
[15:09] <pilgrimpaul> What does it sound like?
[15:09] <SiC> beep, beep, beep
[15:09] <pilgrimpaul> lol
[15:09] <eroomde> and yes there's a lot more emphasis on the technical aspects. lots of hams build their own transmit and receive equipment
[15:09] <Willdude123> pilgrimpaul: OK, you have a thing called RTTY
[15:09] <Willdude123> Pronounced ritty
[15:09] <adwiens> It sounds like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RTTY.ogg
[15:09] <Willdude123> By most
[15:09] <pilgrimpaul> k
[15:10] <eroomde> which is why there's a fairly big overlap between hab and ham, as there's a fun technical radio aspect
[15:10] <Willdude123> It varies between two audio tones to make up 0 and 1 bits
[15:10] <Willdude123> So data is made up of 0s and 1s, well binary data is
[15:10] <Geoff-G8DHE> It sounds like this http://tenbus.co.uk/icaruscapture.mp3
[15:10] <pilgrimpaul> still with you :)
[15:11] <Willdude123> I can represent "a" as 01100001
[15:11] <Willdude123> So that would be
[15:12] <Willdude123> lower frequency, higher one, higher one, lower one, lower one etc
[15:12] <SiC> eroomde: http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/attachment.php?s=7e61e8c3652ed01e5363cffbb52ac54e&attachmentid=49839&d=1303458851
[15:12] <SiC> it looks like some of the original farnell psus were built by "farnell instruments ltd"
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[15:12] <Willdude123> I can represent co-ordinates like this too
[15:12] <Willdude123> Or any data
[15:12] <SiC> I guess a seperate company or one that was part of the "farnell group"
[15:13] <eroomde> yeah
[15:13] <SiC> http://www.advanceproductservices.co.uk/data/G.pdf
[15:13] <craag> pilgrimpaul: Next time there's a hab flight up in the uk, you can listen in to it on here: http://websdr.suws.org.uk/
[15:13] <eroomde> i can quite beleive that back in the day you just need a decent design engineer and a willing local fabricators to start a line of PSUs
[15:13] <pilgrimpaul> so is the binary then translated into a RTTY as noise?
[15:14] <eroomde> not like now where it's got to be made in china at high volumes to have any chance of being competitive
[15:14] <eroomde> pilgrimpaul: exactly
[15:14] <craag> pilgrimpaul: yes
[15:14] <SiC> well, a decent design engineer + local fab probably put out products at the equivilant price [reductions] compared to other kit, as china does now
[15:14] <Willdude123> pilgrimpaul: basically yesd
[15:15] <eroomde> we then modulate those tones up to 434MHz (so instead of alternative between say 1000Hz and 2000Hz for a 0 and a 1, it alternates between 434001000Hz and 434002000Hz)
[15:15] <SiC> if you look at kit made in <80's, a lot of components (variable resistors, etc) had "ENGLAND" stamped in them
[15:15] <eroomde> send them to an antenna
[15:15] <eroomde> then on the ground we tune the radio to 434MHz
[15:15] <eroomde> and then it demodulates it back to audio - 1000Hz and 2000Hz, say
[15:15] <Willdude123> Many java updates. So annoying. Much difficult. Very security
[15:15] <craag> Then you feed the sound from the radio into the Line-In on your laptop, and our program (dl-fldigi) decodes it back into characters and uploads it to the map.
[15:16] <eroomde> and then that goes into the 'line-in' on your computer sourncard and a bit of software called fldigi decodes the tones into the text you sent
[15:16] <jonsowman> pilgrimpaul: hello there
[15:16] <pilgrimpaul> It really is clever stuff!
[15:16] <jonsowman> you called?
[15:16] <pilgrimpaul> Hey Jon
[15:16] <pilgrimpaul> :)
[15:16] <Willdude123> pilgrimpaul: one problem is how do we know that the data received is correct
[15:16] <SiC> http://www.advanceproductservices.co.uk/Farnell-Advance-PSU-Replacements.html <- "As the original design engineers for many of the Farnell / Advance units, we have an unrivalled technical understanding of what is required. Importantly, we also have legitimate access to much of the original Farnell / Advance design documentation, including test procedures, schematics and parts lists."
[15:16] <pilgrimpaul> Was kinda hoping you were still at Cambridge but I hear you have gone to the dark side?
[15:17] <SiC> haha, it still looks like the people who made them are still around!
[15:17] <jonsowman> haha, yes I have I'm afraid! anything I can still help with?
[15:17] <Willdude123> The short answer is we don't. But we can use something called a checksum
[15:17] <pilgrimpaul> The guys here have been really helpful so far :)
[15:17] <Willdude123> A checksum is a special bit of data
[15:17] <jonsowman> they're a useful bunch on the whole :p
[15:18] <Willdude123> That makes sure the rest of it was right
[15:18] <pilgrimpaul> We are looking to launch into 'near space' in the summer from school
[15:18] <Willdude123> A simple form of this is parity
[15:18] <pilgrimpaul> and I was looking for some support for our students
[15:18] <jonsowman> priyesh: OK great, where are you based?
[15:18] <jonsowman> (I've not read scrollback yet, sorry)
[15:19] <Willdude123> pilgrimpaul: do you follow so far?
[15:19] <pilgrimpaul> yes I think so Will
[15:20] <priyesh> jonsowman: ?
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[15:20] <jonsowman> er sorry priyesh
[15:20] <eroomde> p-[tab] fail
[15:20] <priyesh> oh i see
[15:20] <Willdude123> What parity does is indicates if the number of 1s in a string is even or odd
[15:20] <jonsowman> shouldn't try and be on phone and type at the same time
[15:21] <jonsowman> apparently I can't do that
[15:21] <eroomde> you'd make a rubbish callcentre worker jonsowman
[15:21] <jonsowman> you're not wrong
[15:22] <Willdude123> So statistically using checksums we can make it so that it's almost certain that the data is correct.
[15:22] <pilgrimpaul> Right guys, I've got to run
[15:22] <Willdude123> OK
[15:22] <pilgrimpaul> Thank you so much for your help so far
[15:22] <Willdude123> My knowledge is a little flaky
[15:22] <pilgrimpaul> I'll log on later when I'm home
[15:22] <eroomde> good explanation Willdude123
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[15:23] <Willdude123> Thanks eroomde
[15:23] <eroomde> good to have a teacher willing to do that learning curve
[15:24] <Willdude123> You'll have to explain the rest of it as that's all I get
[15:24] <eroomde> not easier given their workload and responsabilities
[15:24] <eroomde> well you've basically got it
[15:24] <eroomde> it's a function that takes a load of input data and turns it into a number
[15:25] <Willdude123> Sorry eroomde what do you mean about teachers?
[15:25] <Willdude123> Oh do you mean in the figurative sense or is that guy a teacher
[15:25] <eroomde> in such a way that it's very very improbable that any other input sequence could create that same number
[15:25] <eroomde> he is a teacher Willdude123
[15:25] <Willdude123> Oh right, I understand
[15:25] <eroomde> wanting to do a hab with his students
[15:26] <Willdude123> Well that's interesting. When I'm a M0, I might see if I can arrange a school ISS contact
[15:26] Action: Willdude123 wonders how you get school kids to behave using ham radio
[15:26] <craag> There's a looong queue :(
[15:27] <Willdude123> Like how do they know they won't ask odd questions
[15:27] <craag> Everything is scripted.
[15:27] <craag> Questions are pre-arranged.
[15:27] <Willdude123> Even the answers?
[15:27] <Willdude123> Eww sounds horrid
[15:28] <Willdude123> Talked to someone on FN who'd worked the italians on the ISS on a 5/8ths colinear at 30 feet
[15:28] <craag> The questions are generally chosen a couple of days in advance and emailed to the astronauts so they can have an answer ready.
[15:28] <SiC> what happens if the child does decide to ask an 'alternative' question?
[15:29] <craag> SiC: Well I'm sure they can improvise.
[15:29] <Willdude123> I guess they might ask some weird questions like err what happens in space when you actually let's not go there
[15:29] <craag> But it's usually done so the children submit questions, and a question is chosen, and the child who submitted that q gets to ask it.
[15:30] <mfa298> remember that the passes are fairly short so the person asking is probably going to want the script anyway.
[15:30] <craag> yep, about 8 minutes iirc
[15:31] <mfa298> My experience is if you put a radio mic in front of someone then usually they forget what they want to say
[15:31] <eroomde> i did an ISS contact thing
[15:31] <craag> Haha, yes...
[15:31] <eroomde> with the school that we did the space teds with
[15:31] <craag> oh yeah?
[15:31] <eroomde> apparently charles simonyi saw that experiment and selected the school
[15:31] <craag> Oh nice
[15:32] <Willdude123> I'd rather make a contact myself tbh
[15:32] <craag> I'd heard the best way to get bumped to the top of the queue was to send the astronaut's family presents!
[15:32] <Willdude123> My science teacher doesn't even know I'm an amateur radio operator
[15:32] <craag> eroomde: Who handled the radio setup side?
[15:32] <eroomde> RSGB
[15:33] <eroomde> the GB4FUN lot
[15:33] <craag> with their van?
[15:33] <craag> yeah
[15:33] <craag> don't have it anymore
[15:33] <eroomde> howard long, carlos eavis
[15:33] <craag> gave it away to a club up north
[15:33] <eroomde> that lot
[15:33] <eroomde> large overlap with funcube, which i was briefly involved with as a result went to a couple of early design meetings in london
[15:34] <eroomde> but got totally hit opver the head by masters so had to give that up ebfore it got started really
[15:34] <eroomde> which is sad
[15:34] <craag> oh cool
[15:34] <eroomde> they gave away GB4FUN!?
[15:34] <craag> yep :(
[15:34] <eroomde> it's a hell of a thing to just give away
[15:34] <craag> clubs had to 'apply' for it and then a club was chosen
[15:35] <eroomde> lucky club
[15:35] <eroomde> it's a beast
[15:35] <eroomde> would make the most perfect field HQ for HAB ever
[15:35] <craag> we spent 2 months sorting out how we would do parking, maintenance, storage etc. Submitted it and found out they'd silently chosen a club 6 weeks earlier.
[15:36] <eroomde> i do want to modify the back of a transit in a similar vein
[15:36] <craag> Oh yes, we saw some ex-police vans on ebay
[15:36] <eroomde> mobile ops for souding rockets
[15:36] <craag> 2x pneumatic masts in the back
[15:37] <craag> desk with fixed chair inside
[15:37] <craag> rack of batteries on the underside
[15:37] <mfa298> I'd want to go proper retro and get a VW Camper
[15:37] <craag> and a slot for a gennie on the back!
[15:38] <Willdude123> Oh dear parents evening in a few hours. I think they just gave us a day off to prepare for all the stress. My mum feels the need to mention extra-curricular programming and science activities to my teachers, like HAB
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[15:41] <Lunar_LanderU> hello
[15:41] <Willdude123> Hello Lunar_LanderU
[15:42] <DL1SGP> Willdude123: my sympathy, I always hated such parents evenings
[15:42] <DL1SGP> Guten Abend Kevin
[15:42] <Lunar_LanderU> hallo
[15:43] <craag> Afternoon Lunar_LanderU
[15:43] <Lunar_LanderU> hi
[15:44] <Lunar_LanderU> new computer to work with
[15:44] <DL1SGP> worse was my class-teacher who also was my geography teacher, he always kept a part of the maps that we had to fill with names of rivers and towns, disregarding the fact that the copies he took were of such bad quality that even the new german borders came close to the way it looked in 1902
[15:44] <Lunar_LanderU> I am happy
[15:44] <craag> :)
[15:45] <DL1SGP> Great news Lunar_LanderU
[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> yea
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[15:45] <Lunar_LanderU> got one of the OptiPlex GX620 that served duty in the student's computer room and since have been replaced by some thin client model
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[15:47] Nick change: ThePaintingMan -> KyleYankan
[15:47] <Lunar_LanderU> brb
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[15:50] <Lunar_LanderU> everything good :)
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[16:06] <Lunar_LanderU> hi chrisstubbs
[16:08] <chrisstubbs> afternoon
[16:16] <SpeedEvil> me is unsure if it's morning or not.
[16:16] Action: SpeedEvil has a broken clock.
[16:17] <fsphil> it is somewhere
[16:17] <fsphil> but not where you are
[16:18] <SpeedEvil> I got up a couple of hours ago.
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> Where got up implies got a cup of coffee and went back to bed.
[16:19] <SpeedEvil> Currently I'm trying to complete a soul-crushing form which is not helping my mental state.
[16:22] <eroomde> i'm trying to use windows
[16:22] <eroomde> has a similar effect
[16:22] <fsphil> which version?
[16:22] <eroomde> 7
[16:22] <eroomde> it's ok when i'm using cad, as i'm just using cad
[16:23] <eroomde> but trying to configure settings is a bit of hurt
[16:23] <fsphil> that's the slightly nicer version of torture
[16:24] <eroomde> i might give kicad a whirl
[16:24] Action: Willdude123 sneaks handheld radio into school blazer pocket
[16:24] <fsphil> I have a few times. but I suspect the double task of learning both kicad and cad at the same time is a bit much
[16:25] <craag> Willdude123: Just remember to switch it off when in class
[16:25] <eroomde> the schematics look quite pretty
[16:25] <craag> Willdude123: When the repeater sends it's ID 10 minutes into the lecture, you'll get weird looks!
[16:25] <Willdude123> craag: lecture ? :P
[16:26] <Willdude123> craag: our school phone policy is don't have a phone.
[16:26] <fsphil> I don't think they'll be too bothered by the exact wording of the policy
[16:26] <Willdude123> Either that or you can put it in a box where it'll get stolen
[16:26] <fsphil> or don't bring it :)
[16:26] <chrisstubbs> the "its not a phone" excuse on my palm pilot never worked
[16:27] <fsphil> that said I brought a pocket TV into school once
[16:27] <fsphil> watched it during RE
[16:27] <fsphil> (covertly)
[16:27] <craag> Willdude123: I was speaking from recent experience at uni :P
[16:28] <eroomde> uk.radio.amateur
[16:28] <eroomde> it's *hilarious*
[16:28] <Willdude123> eroomde: I try and avoid it
[16:28] <fsphil> in the way I suspect it is?
[16:28] <eroomde> imagine all the world's frustrated old men on one mailing list
[16:28] <eroomde> it's like repeater chat x10
[16:28] <Willdude123> It's a parents evening so I shan't get it out
[16:28] <fsphil> "Fool's License"
[16:29] <fsphil> wot
[16:29] <Willdude123> It's not easy
[16:29] <fsphil> what a bunch of dicks
[16:29] <mfa298> for uk.radio.amateur then add in the worlds paranoid old men as well
[16:29] <Willdude123> The Foundation License required some effort
[16:30] <Willdude123> Besides, what difference does it make if the license you did was "easy"?
[16:30] <Willdude123> Radio is radio is radio to misquote Margret Thatcher
[16:31] <fsphil> as long as you're not abusive on air and don't operate outside the license, who gives a damn
[16:31] Action: fsphil closes the browser tab
[16:31] <fsphil> aaaah
[16:31] <fsphil> better
[16:32] <chrisstubbs> These seem like the kind of people that dONT KNOW WHAT CAPS LOCK IS
[16:32] <fsphil> HIHI
[16:32] <chrisstubbs> ONE DAY THE LETTERS JUST ALL GOT BIGGER
[16:32] Action: fsphil kills self
[16:32] <eroomde> the electronics lab is filled with 'No more I Love You's' on the speakers
[16:32] <fsphil> lol
[16:32] <eroomde> which is usually the sign that james is about to hurl a piece of test equipment out of the window
[16:33] <eroomde> and needs a moment of zen
[16:33] <fsphil> language is leaving him
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[16:34] <SpeedEvil> Oooh!
[16:34] Action: SpeedEvil sets up landing mattress outside for free test equipment.
[16:35] <fsphil> for the speed it would need there wouldn't be much left of the equipment
[16:35] <fsphil> or the building it came from
[16:37] <mfa298> hmmm, the quality of what's on uk.radio.amateur appears to have improved vastly since last time I looked.
[16:38] <eroomde> it's astonishing
[16:38] <eroomde> these people bring it upon themselves
[16:38] <eroomde> i love being a radio professional
[16:39] <x-f> > Please enlighten me, what exactly is a "fools licence"?
[16:39] <x-f> It is the ideal licence for you.
[16:39] <mfa298> there's actually some on topic stuff in there now. when I looked in 2-3 years ago the quality in that newsgroup was *much* worse than whats there now.
[16:39] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: Perhaps certain people died.
[16:39] Action: x-f sighs and closes browser tab.
[16:39] Action: daveake takes a look
[16:40] Action: daveake closes window
[16:40] <daveake> wow
[16:40] <mfa298> SpeedEvil: probably from suffocation by pulling their tin foil hats too tight.
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[16:43] <Lunar_LanderU> yay AVRDUDE works also
[16:43] <gonzo__> so 80mtrs also broadcasts on usenet/
[16:44] <daveake> One funny comment ... "it's all because a cber ran off with his missus"
[16:48] <eroomde> maybe this newsgroup is a honeypot set up by social workers
[16:48] <eroomde> to save having to actually go out and look for people who need to be sectioned
[16:51] <daveake> lol
[16:52] <daveake> ham + internetz. It's a winning combination.
[16:52] <daveake> I thought the dodgy web site colours and animations were bad enough
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[17:06] <Lunar_LanderU> ok, talk to you later!
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[17:07] <eroomde> did i miss somethjing?
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[17:41] <SpeedEvil> While moving within the cabin, Aldrin accidentally broke the circuit breaker that would arm the main engine for lift off from the Moon. There was concern this would prevent firing the engine, stranding them on the Moon. Fortunately a felt-tip pen was sufficient to activate the switch
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[17:45] <SpeedEvil> Awww - Dobson died.
[17:46] Action: SpeedEvil looks up into the night sky in memory.
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[17:46] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE
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[17:58] <DL7AD> good evening
[18:01] Geoff-G8DHE (~Geoff-G8D@geoffg8dhe.plus.com) left irc: Ping timeout: 252 seconds
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> http://morpheuslander.jsc.nasa.gov/live/
[18:01] Nick change: [1]Geoff-G8DHE -> Geoff-G8DHE
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> Just in time
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> Morpheus lander test
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> (moon lander)
[18:01] <SpeedEvil> (prototype, not actual mmon)
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> ^sounds like something now imminent
[18:10] <SpeedEvil> '200PSI' '300PSI'
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> 'target pressure reached, holding for chill-in'
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> They're targeting the test at 6:15 (GMT)
[18:14] <Laurenceb> i thought armadillo werent doing anything?
[18:14] <Laurenceb> arg chopping
[18:19] <Laurenceb> lol
[18:19] <Laurenceb> "go for retract"
[18:19] <Laurenceb> guy pulls on some string
[18:20] <Laurenceb> clear the area!!!!
[18:20] Action: Laurenceb plays "you only live twice" music
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[18:20] <Laurenceb> im guessing evacuation of the area is by sharks
[18:25] <SpeedEvil> I loved the string. :)
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[18:26] Nick change: DL7AD -> OE_DL7AD
[18:28] <SpeedEvil> Oh - it's a bit bigger than I thought. :)
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[18:36] <OE_DL7AD> hey arko ;)
[18:36] <arko> helllloo
[18:36] <arko> looks like my bouncer is having fun without me
[18:37] <OE_DL7AD> arko: your bouncer?
[18:37] <arko> IRC bouncer
[18:38] <arko> so i can always stay connected
[18:38] <OE_DL7AD> ah okay
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[18:59] <SpeedEvil> The wonders of wikipedia.
[18:59] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_profanity
[19:02] <WillTablet> Is it possible to work the iss with 5 watts on a handheld and a whip
[19:03] <mfa298> most of the time the only AR that's active on the ISS is APRS which you might manage with 5W but it might be more luck than anything
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[19:11] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[19:15] <OE_DL7AD> WillTablet: NO. but 5...10W and yagi is realistic.
[19:15] <DL1SGP> Na Sven, mal eben zur Sissi ruebergemacht?
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[19:19] <OE_DL7AD> DL1SGP: ?!?
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[19:20] <DL1SGP> na diese Kaiserin Elizabeth von Oesterreich Ungarn
[19:21] <DL1SGP> http://www.moviepilot.de/files/images/0628/4875/sissi.jpg
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[19:22] <OE_DL7AD> achso....
[19:22] <DL1SGP> :D
[19:22] <OE_DL7AD> hm pfff.... wegen der bin ich aber nicht hier
[19:22] <OE_DL7AD> bin ja fast schon in italien
[19:22] <DL1SGP> huii fein :)
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[19:24] Nick change: Gadget-Mac_ -> Gadget-Mac
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[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> back home
[19:33] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[19:34] <OE_DL7AD> ich habe gerade über google analytics herausgefunden, dass windows8 den marktanteil von windowx xp letzten monat überschritten hat ^^ DL1SGP
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[19:35] <OE_DL7AD> ^^
[19:36] <DL1SGP> das sind die ganzen feiglinge die umsteigen weil der support bald endet :D
[19:36] <OE_DL7AD> rofl.....
[19:36] <OE_DL7AD> dann würd ich aber richtung window 7 gehen
[19:37] <DL1SGP> wenn man sich alle malware selber installiert muss man auch nicht erwarten dass man was installiert bekommt
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[19:37] <DL1SGP> Good Evening SP9UOB-Tom
[19:38] Carry_ (8e20d0eb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.142.32.208.235) joined #highaltitude.
[19:38] <OE_DL7AD> evening SP9UOB-Tom
[19:39] <OE_DL7AD> wird mal wieder zeit für einen deutschen ballon :)
[19:39] <Carry_> Helium or hydrogen?
[19:40] <DL1SGP> Carry_: depends on your local regulations and your experience with hydrogene. Helium is less dangerous, hydrogene cheaper, I guess there are some words on what to use on the wiki
[19:42] <daveake> bot ...
[19:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[19:42] <daveake> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:hydrogen
[19:42] <OE_DL7AD> evening SP9UOB-Tom
[19:42] <OE_DL7AD> DL1SGP: are you able to solder SMD? (0603)
[19:43] <daveake> Anyway, I suggest waiting till you're experienced with helium before trying hydrogen
[19:43] <DL1SGP> grah daveake you were faster :)
[19:43] <Carry_> ok. will do.
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[19:43] <daveake> Also, with helium, you get a regulator/valve with the rental
[19:44] <daveake> With H2 you have to buy one
[19:44] <daveake> Meaning it isn't actually cheaper till you do a few flights
[19:44] <Carry_> thx
[19:44] <DL1SGP> OE_DL7AD: I am not sure about that :P never had to deal much with it yet, but one can "learn"
[19:44] <Willdude123> It seems there is almost no content on uk.radio.amateur
[19:44] <OE_DL7AD> DL1SGP: okay.
[19:45] <OE_DL7AD> Lunar_Lander: do you solder smd? (0603)
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[19:46] <Lunar_Lander> ah I planned to start trying SMD on 0805
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[19:47] <Willdude123> Lunar_Lander: best of luch
[19:48] <Lunar_Lander> thanks
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[20:35] <cm13g09> question: Anyone seen any Linux SBCs kicking around, similar to the RasPi, with no graphics chipset. I only need a hardware serial port, a USB host and an ethernet adaptor
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[20:36] <SpeedEvil> beaglebone black
[20:36] <fsphil> Nothing as cheap as the Pi
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> well, there is.
[20:36] <fsphil> beaglebone has video too
[20:36] <SpeedEvil> https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/iMX233/iMX233-OLinuXino-NANO/open-source-hardware
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> really decent set of peripheral components too
[20:37] <adwiens> that looks pretty nice
[20:37] <fsphil> hey that's neat
[20:37] <SpeedEvil> http://8devices.com/carambola-2 too
[20:38] <cm13g09> fsphil: OK, Pis it is then
[20:38] <cm13g09> price is important ;)
[20:38] <cm13g09> excess features....
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[20:39] <SpeedEvil> http://shop.8devices.com/carambola2
[20:40] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: It can't be wlan...
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> why not?
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> oh - right
[20:40] <cm13g09> the application for this product is in an environment where wires win hands down....
[20:40] <SpeedEvil> Above does ethernet too
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> but needs magjacks
[20:41] <SpeedEvil> http://shop.8devices.com/carambola2-bundle
[20:41] <cm13g09> ah I see
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[20:41] <cm13g09> I think RasPi is cheaper still by a fraction
[20:42] <cm13g09> (and it's gonna end up running Python)
[20:42] <adwiens> SpeedEvil: 21dbm isn't bad either
[20:42] <SpeedEvil> Not at all
[20:43] <SpeedEvil> Especially with 27dBm power usage.
[20:44] <adwiens> Any idea what the receive sensitivity is?
[20:45] <SpeedEvil> Nope.
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[21:10] <mclane> some dl-fldigi developpers available here?
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane
[21:11] <mclane> hi Lunar_Lander
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon and DanielRichman are the people to ask I think
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[21:11] <mclane> ok
[21:12] <mclane> the dl-fldigi source code does not have too many comments in
[21:12] <mclane> so it is quite hard to understand
[21:12] <mclane> at least for an "amateur" like me
[21:13] <Lunar_Lander> oh ok
[21:14] <mclane> I need to know where I can grab the rtty output raw data before it gets parsed and uploaded
[21:16] <mclane> I would like to use error correction for the telemetry data
[21:18] <bertrik> mclane: I've often wondered if it would be possible to do "optimum eye" selection on the past 10 bits or so with RTTY
[21:18] <bertrik> I don't know how it currently works though
[21:18] <fsphil> mclane: fldigi outputs the decoded text on a tcp port
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Practically - that's a bad solution, unfortunately.
[21:20] <mclane> so what I am planning to do is to have a minimum fixed datastring (49 chars) and 14 charsreed solomon parity bytes
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> You really want a demodulator that does not rely on framing to keep lock.
[21:20] <fsphil> mclane: port 7322
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> But that as I understand it would mean a whole new 'modem'
[21:21] <mclane> and I would like to insert the rs decoder between the rtty output; generate the correct string and then feed the result into the rest of the processing chain
[21:21] <SpeedEvil> you really want it at the audio input -> data stage
[21:22] <SpeedEvil> Otherwise a bit error has a 2/10 or so chance of losing framing, and losing the whole char.
[21:23] <mclane> I do not understand
[21:24] <mclane> I would like to simply do the same thing as it is done in the ssdv transmission
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> mclane: The existing architecture goes soundcard -> bit decoder -> rs232 decoder
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> i worked out how to halve the cost of HS2
[21:24] <SpeedEvil> AIUI
[21:24] <Laurenceb_> turn it into a crossrail extension
[21:24] <mclane> where you take a packet of jpg data add the partity bytes and transmit
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> just keep to boring machines going
[21:25] <Laurenceb_> *the
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> mclane: the problem is if you add a FEC decoder after the RS232 decoder, the RS232 decoder has already shredded your input signal by deleting any bytes whihc have framing errors.
[21:26] <mclane> on the fl-digi side, you take the rtty output and do the rs decode
[21:26] <SpeedEvil> mclane: this doesn't make the FEC useless, but it makes it way less useful
[21:27] <mclane> but it seems that this is the way its done for ssdv?
[21:29] <SpeedEvil> fsphil should know - I'm not sure.
[21:30] <fsphil> I measure the number of samples between a received character and the last one
[21:30] <fsphil> from that I can calculate if and how many missing bytes there are
[21:30] <fsphil> then I just pad the output
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> So you're basically just accepting that the RS232 framing shreds stuff rather than diving deeply into the code and fixing?
[21:31] <SpeedEvil> (which is not an insane POV)
[21:32] <fsphil> yea. RS codes work on bytes so even if one bit is wrong or the byte is totally missing has no effect
[21:32] <mclane> yea, that's what I would like to do, just for telemetry data instead of jpg data
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[21:33] <fsphil> the missing byte almost helps, as it can then signal to the RS code that it's definitly wrong
[21:34] <SpeedEvil> ah
[21:34] <mclane> fsphil: where can I find the interfaces in the code?
[21:34] <fsphil> I'm not familiar with the inner workings of RS but it can correct more errors if it already knows where some of them are
[21:34] <fsphil> mclane: rtty.cpp
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[21:35] <mclane> ok, I will have a look and try to understand
[21:35] <fsphil> line 511 on mine
[21:35] <fsphil> look for where it sets 'lb'
[21:35] <fsphil> short for lost bytes
[21:35] <fsphil> I'm sure there are conditions where it calculates the wrong number of bytes
[21:36] <fsphil> and it would lose the packet
[21:36] <fsphil> it's far from ideal
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[21:40] <mclane> ah I see
[21:41] <mclane> in that line you feed the received char into the ssdv decoder
[21:42] <mclane> right?
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[21:51] <fsphil> mclane: yea, also the number of missing bytes
[21:53] <mclane> and this
[21:53] <mclane> dl_fldigi::hbtint::extrmgr->push(c);
[21:53] <mclane> is then the normal route where the char is then uploaded to habitat?
[21:54] <fsphil> put_rx_ssdv(c, lb); for the ssdv code
[21:58] <mclane> yea, what I still need to fond out how to upload the rs-decoded, reformatted string to habitat
[21:58] <fsphil> probably just push it in using that function above
[21:59] <mclane> yea; I'll try that
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[22:09] <mclane> I have to leave, good night
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[22:15] <Willdude123> Interesting https://github.com/wetube/bitcloud/blob/master/Bitcloud%20Nontechnical%20White%20Paper.md
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[22:55] <Laurenceb_> http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/PF259724?icmp=stm32f072-discovery_pron_pr_jan2014
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[22:55] <Laurenceb_> some pron there
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[23:26] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[23:36] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271300089040 on testgear
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[23:58] <DL7AD> good night
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[23:59] Nick change: heathkid|2 -> heathkid
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[00:00] --- Fri Jan 17 2014