highaltitude.log.20140113

[00:19] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, you still here?
[00:19] <aadamson> Xin works!!!
[00:20] <aadamson> I need to look at the levels, but doing two 150pf caps in series, shunt got me to a point where xin funcitons.
[00:21] <aadamson> So it's a combo of two things I suspect people aren't doing. a) that global_xo_tune setup to shut off the internal capacitance; b) driving it too hard!!!
[00:21] <aadamson> outstanding!
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[00:52] <LeoBodnar> I am glad it worked
[00:53] <LeoBodnar> internal capacitance is only 10-20pF
[00:53] <LeoBodnar> but anyway it's good it is working
[00:54] <LeoBodnar> aadamson: ^^
[00:55] <LeoBodnar> good night all
[00:56] <Laurenceb_> cya
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> blerg
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> too much coding
[00:57] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: you know anything about openstreetmap servers?
[00:58] <Laurenceb_> im trying to convert GPS positions to roads
[00:58] <Laurenceb_> ive got some code running
[00:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: yes.
[00:58] <Laurenceb_> so atm im doing a binary search through the positions
[00:59] <Laurenceb_> with a server query for each one
[00:59] <Laurenceb_> im wonder if there is a nicer way
[00:59] <SpeedEvil> what do you mean by that?
[00:59] <Laurenceb_> im querying nomatim
[00:59] <SpeedEvil> are you doing this for one point, or lots?
[01:00] <Laurenceb_> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim
[01:00] <Laurenceb_> a whole route
[01:00] <Laurenceb_> so several hundred queries
[01:00] <Laurenceb_> actually maybe this is already documented
[01:00] <SpeedEvil> 'absolute maximum of 1/s' ?
[01:00] <Laurenceb_> heh
[01:00] <SpeedEvil> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim_usage_policy
[01:00] <Laurenceb_> yeah im queries at 1 position per second
[01:01] <Laurenceb_> *querying
[01:01] <Laurenceb_> so it takes a long time
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> you could always grab the planet.
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> Or a UK extract at least.
[01:01] <SpeedEvil> Ever seen a three hundred gig xml file?
[01:02] <Laurenceb_> eeeek
[01:02] <Laurenceb_> but this is running on a big server so...
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> Compressed it's only 32G
[01:02] <Laurenceb_> yeah i might try that, all journeys are going to be in UK
[01:02] <Laurenceb_> ok, not horrible
[01:02] <SpeedEvil> And practically - if you want UK - that's much smaller
[01:03] <Laurenceb_> the code to run over it is easy to setup i guess?
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[01:03] <Laurenceb_> so i can query
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[01:04] <SpeedEvil> http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/great-britain.html
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> I don't off-hand know.
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> I've never setup a propr server.
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> I have done random parsing of the map with gnuplot
[01:04] <Laurenceb_> ah
[01:05] <Laurenceb_> doesnt look horribly large
[01:05] <MLow> think this would be good to put a camera/tracker in?
[01:05] <Laurenceb_> ok
[01:05] <SpeedEvil> I would suggest IRC - #openstreetmap over on irc.oftc.net
[01:05] <Laurenceb_> ok
[01:05] <MLow> how would one get the cord secure on it for the parachute/balloon
[01:05] <Laurenceb_> im guessing there are rules on commercial use?
[01:06] <SpeedEvil> If you are aggregating OSM data with other dayta, in such a manner to commingle it - you may need to release that data under odbl.
[01:07] <SpeedEvil> http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/
[01:07] <SpeedEvil> You can use it commercially, with certain caveats.
[01:07] <Laurenceb_> ok, im using to convert GPS tracks from commercial vehicle trackers to road lists
[01:08] <SpeedEvil> As I understand it, that's fine.
[01:08] <Laurenceb_> like A38, 40miles, M1, 50miles
[01:08] <Laurenceb_> and so on
[01:08] <SpeedEvil> If you were in a position to share the GPS tracks with the project, that might be greatly appreciated.
[01:09] <SpeedEvil> (I don't know what the policy is on that ATM thoguh, I've been out of touch with the project for a couple of years)
[01:09] <Laurenceb_> ah good idea
[01:10] <Laurenceb_> i should have hundreds by the time this is over
[01:10] <Laurenceb_> potentially thousands if this takes off
[01:10] <Laurenceb_> could be very useful
[01:10] <SpeedEvil> brb
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[01:14] <SpeedEvil> Did I ping out, or actually quit then?
[01:14] <craag> Remote host closed connection
[01:14] <craag> so quit
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[01:15] <SpeedEvil> k
[01:17] <SpeedEvil> Major problem of using nominatim over your own server is that if it dies, you're fucked.
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[01:18] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[01:18] <Laurenceb_> thats something im worried about, as this is a commercial project
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[01:41] <Laurenceb_> http://imgur.com/v8tlJpk
[01:44] <ike> kavai
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[01:53] <ant-e> high
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[02:08] <ant-e> .
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[08:52] <LeoBodnar> morning *
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[09:09] <SpeedEvil> ''
[09:13] <Natio> Ohoy!
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[09:17] <Reb-SM3ULC> Morrn .*
[09:19] <eroomde> nishin marooning
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[09:28] <eroomde> i can never remember the b in lambda
[09:28] <eroomde> i with python would just call the lambda function syndex 'fun' or something
[09:28] <eroomde> fun x: x**2]
[09:29] <eroomde> without the ]
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[10:09] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: re: floating point, you probably already know but just incase not, the stm32f4 has an FPU
[10:09] <eroomde> which might make assembler more tolerable
[10:14] <LeoBodnar> thanks eroomde
[10:31] <Guest90459> who does the radio tracking on spacenear.us
[10:33] <eroomde> everyone with a copy of sl-fldigi
[10:33] <eroomde> who tunes in their radio receiver to a trackers
[10:33] <eroomde> so it's the combined results of tens-to-hundreds of amateurs tuning in and contributing telemetry that they decode
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[10:38] <Guest90459> what do you do if you don't have the dl-fldigi? how can you get someone else to track your balloon?
[10:41] <gonzo_> fldidg is a free download. You need a radio receiver to go with it though
[10:42] <gonzo_> some people have launched without having their own receiver at the launch site, and hoped that the tracking network 9everyone else listening) will hear it when it gets high enough
[10:42] <eroomde> those people deserve to loose their payloadfs
[10:43] <gonzo_> but there have been losses, where there has been a problem, the beacon was not fully working when launched and the team did not know, because they did not have their own receiver on site to check it before launch
[10:44] <mattbrejza> and when you know the last position to 1km altitude that doesnt really tell you where it landed
[10:44] <daveake> That's near the top of the "how to lose your payload" list, right behind "Only use a GSM tracker"
[10:44] <gonzo_> if there are other ukahs people locally, they would probably be happy to come along and bring their recievers. or rope in the local amareur radio club
[10:45] <eroomde> just make sure you wipe down that club's radios with a wet wipe before using them
[10:45] <gonzo_> hehe
[10:46] <gonzo_> get them to copem along to do the receiving. And to talk about hospital appointments and who has died this week
[10:47] <gonzo_> Guest90459, are you in the UK, if so, where?
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[10:50] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: for what it's worth i have been doing a bit more assembler recently
[10:50] <eroomde> and there is a kind of zen elegance
[10:50] <eroomde> and you don't have to be a good citizen and play along with the ABI
[10:50] <eroomde> you can do all sorts of wierd shit
[10:51] <fsphil> you don't see the code, you just see the program
[10:51] <LeoBodnar> lol you have seen the light then
[10:51] <eroomde> assuming you don't use other libraries anyway
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[10:51] <eroomde> it's nice being able to pass back all the registers from a 'function'
[10:51] <LeoBodnar> I use libraries sometimes but scan them to see what they are doing
[10:52] <eroomde> instead of offloading them somewhere else first to follow the rules
[10:52] <eroomde> i suspect i'd end up burning in hell if i took that approach on a team project
[10:52] <eroomde> but for lone-ranger hacking it's a bit magnificent
[10:53] <fsphil> it can be fun
[10:53] <fsphil> also quite educational
[10:53] <eroomde> yeah
[10:53] <LeoBodnar> coding in assembler on a micro-level sometimes brings sort of satisfaction i rarely get with higher level languages
[10:53] <eroomde> i'd just get super-board if i loads of maths to code though
[10:53] <eroomde> bored*
[10:53] <fsphil> it can also be very frustrating
[10:53] <LeoBodnar> basically a fell that this is the bestest tightest fastest loop possible
[10:53] <LeoBodnar> *feeling
[10:54] <LeoBodnar> nevermind that you can get last week's offer from another manufacturer and have x5 the speed even using C++
[10:54] <eroomde> certainly useful when you're trying to make the most efficient thing possible for flights
[10:55] <fsphil> inline assembly in C can be useful, though evil
[10:55] <gonzo_> even writing in C, if you have a good feel for the compiler, you can pretty much guess the assembler that will come out. That's how I write
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> If you get C<->asm interfacing right you can co-exist with others
[10:56] <eroomde> sure
[10:56] <eroomde> that's just the ABI right
[10:56] <eroomde> but half the fun was being able to completely ignore it :)
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[10:57] <LeoBodnar> oh definitely
[10:57] <eroomde> and a lot of the speedup must come from not havign to pack up stuff in memory then reload it once you return from the function call
[10:58] <LeoBodnar> yes if you are not using reentrant code then there is no point to save the whole set of stuff on the stack
[10:59] <LeoBodnar> *in saving
[10:59] <eroomde> yes exactly
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[10:59] <LeoBodnar> barebones number crunching
[10:59] <LeoBodnar> or pins twiddling or whatever
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[11:11] <Maxell> Can't wait for another HAB to pass along. Finally bought a set!
[11:13] <gonzo_> also chosing the order of the processing within functions, to keep stuff in registers
[11:13] <Maxell> Also got 10 ele yagi from nearby HAM, so so no more dicking around with the small 1/4 whip omnipoles
[11:15] <eroomde> get an az-el, then you're laughing
[11:18] <Maxell> Currently on a tripod, so 4 meters HAAT :P
[11:18] <Maxell> Uh, 4? more like 1,5
[11:19] <eroomde> 1.5?
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[11:20] <Maxell> eroomde: yeah, this kind of tripod: http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/pakhnyushchyy/pakhnyushchyy0805/pakhnyushchyy080500972/3082748-camera-statief.jpg
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[11:21] <Maxell> not http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/soleg/soleg0807/soleg080700022/3328024-oude-camera-op-een-statief.jpg
[11:21] <eroomde> nice
[11:21] <eroomde> just fix the legs to something
[11:21] <eroomde> :)
[11:21] <eroomde> wind can be a bit murderous to those things
[11:23] <Maxell> eroomde: roof aint no easy acess...
[11:23] <Maxell> Roof of shed might...
[11:24] <gonzo_> Maxell, the Sibot obviously does not work in reverse. 4ft to 1.5(ish) mtrs
[11:25] <Maxell> But tripod would be useless, better get a piece of aluminum pipe
[11:25] <gonzo_> for hab, the height of the amtenna is an advantage. Possibly worth taking a trip to the nearedest bit of highish,clear ground to receive
[11:25] <Maxell> gonzo_: 4ft is no mts
[11:25] <Maxell> I just forgot to think
[11:26] <gonzo_> if you can get a small colinear up to roof heing, it will prob be better than a low yagi
[11:26] <gonzo_> height
[11:27] <Maxell> gonzo_: but this weather is nasty... Better wait for summer and inspect where I am going to mount the X30
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[11:28] <gonzo_> I have a 15ele(ish?) yagi at 15ft height and a cloinear about 10ft higher (at the vbase of the collinear)
[11:28] <Maxell> yagi is easy to stick on pole and quickly put up/take down
[11:28] <Maxell> And colinear outpreforms?
[11:29] <Maxell> The X30 is currenly at shoulder height, so 10 ele yagi on 4 meters pole would be win
[11:29] <gonzo_> I get stronger sigs from the yago, obviously, but the signals drop away when the yagi's lose sight of the hAB, and the collinear can still get sigs for a useable extra distance
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[11:31] <gonzo_> the collinear will get low rate (50bd) signals pretty much till they drop below the horizon. So though they are not strong, they are still useable, so that makes the colinear an adequate ant, for me. And it's easier to get the lominear up highish.
[11:32] <gonzo_> the yago gets strionger sigs, so is better for the higher rate (300/600bd) telem
[11:33] <gonzo_> but as mione is lower down, the horizon for that ant is not as good
[11:35] <Maxell> gonzo_: yeah, I could get a longer pole, but they would still be at the same height, so yagi would always outpreform
[11:36] <Maxell> however, if I do end up getting that cute X30 on the roof that would be my main setup and keep the yagi for portable or when chasing
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[11:45] <Maxell> morning DutchMillbt
[11:46] <LeoBodnar> what sort of processing is used for tracking - correlation or FFT?
[11:46] <LeoBodnar> I am at acquisition stage so far
[11:47] <eroomde> correlation
[11:47] <eroomde> there's no advantage to doing it parallel really, as you only need 3
[11:48] <eroomde> early prompt and late
[11:52] <LeoBodnar> thanks
[11:55] <LeoBodnar> Interesting fact is that I and Q LOs phase shift varies so little that when digitised it stays constant over whole Doppler range.
[11:56] <eroomde> when quantised?
[11:56] <LeoBodnar> Which means one can have only one of them synthesised and the other is just binary shift for a fixed number of bits
[11:56] <LeoBodnar> yeah
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[11:57] <LeoBodnar> i.e. with 16.368msps system and 4.092 intermediate freq shift between I and Q is 4 samples
[11:57] <LeoBodnar> Sorry, one sample
[11:58] <LeoBodnar> So I and Q are offset by a single sample
[11:59] <LeoBodnar> If frequency of I has increased from 4.092 to 4.102 due to 1kHz Doppler the shift between I and Q is still 1 sample
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[12:01] <LeoBodnar> or did I get that wrong? hmm
[12:03] <LeoBodnar> no that should be right
[12:09] <eroomde> yeah, sounds ok
[12:09] <eroomde> it basically just translate to worse SNR
[12:09] <eroomde> but still tolerable
[12:09] <eroomde> correlation scores will still be high qith clear skies and no multipath
[12:14] <LeoBodnar> i think this is exactly what is happening if you were to generate clean I and Q and the quantise them
[12:15] <LeoBodnar> then you discover that they are always 1 sample apart as Doppler sweeps
[12:16] <LeoBodnar> * on 16msps system with 4MHz IF
[12:21] <DutchMillbt> good afternoon Maxell....
[12:22] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: PD5P supplied me with a vertical and yagi. Other HAMs on PI2HGL probably felt bad that I had that yaesu set but not yet an antenna
[12:23] <Maxell> A piece of coax to hook it all up, had to repace two connectors but all running fine now. Can't wait for the next HAB.
[12:24] <Maxell> However, I still need to hook audio to my laptop...
[12:24] <Maxell> So it can wait ;)
[12:29] <DutchMillbt> That's a nice gesture form PD5P, the Yeasu is more sensitve than the sdr dongele, we'll see in the next flight ;-)
[12:31] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: yeah, really great! I traded it for a bottle of wine :)
[12:31] <Maxell> DutchMillbt: RevSpace will still be using the 70cm colinear with habamp.
[12:33] <Maxell> However, at my QTH I wonder what neighbours will think of me liek this: http://jan.kepic.cz/storage/200803221310_a144s10_std.jpg
[12:33] <Maxell> poor mans rotor :)
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[12:54] <DutchMillbt> Hi Maxell... back in @work you see... thats a good deal for a bottle of wine. I can't put a yagi on my roof at the moment
[12:55] <DutchMillbt> the neighbours are not yet ready for that, but who knows ..
[13:01] <Maxell> Well, putting stuff up next to the shed might not be a problem for me. Facing the cold in the shed might...
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[13:42] <eroomde> project space bear....
[13:46] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: bit counting method that can be faster than lookup tables for sparse bits
[13:46] <eroomde> http://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html#CountBitsSetKernighan
[13:47] <eroomde> just FYI, i suspect LUTs will be the way to go for correlation scoring
[13:48] <daveake> eroomde Hah. The mere mention killed my connection :p
[13:49] <eroomde> yeah
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[13:50] <eroomde> all i want for christmas....
[13:50] <eroomde> why don't you come on over uu4jlm
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[14:07] <Chetic> where should a swede buy his balloons from?
[14:08] <eroomde> probably steve
[14:08] <eroomde> rocketboy on here
[14:08] <eroomde> randomsolutions.co.uk
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[14:09] <Chetic> looks like an awesome site
[14:10] <Chetic> when selecting a balloon, what's "Cd"?
[14:10] <Chetic> burst diameter, weight and "cd"
[14:12] <daveake> Ah don't worry about that
[14:12] <Chetic> curious though :]
[14:13] <daveake> Drag Coefficient
[14:13] <Chetic> ah neat!
[14:13] <daveake> Just use the CUSF burst calculator - type in your expected payload weight and the altitude you're hoping for, then play around with balloon sizes till you get one that achieves that altitude at 5 - 5.5 m/s
[14:14] <Chetic> precisely what I'm doing now :)
[14:14] <daveake> Though if you're launching in Sweden you may need to send it up quickly so it lands in Sweden :)
[14:14] <Chetic> yeah not sure how quick is reasonable
[14:14] <daveake> 5 - 6
[14:14] <daveake> More than 6 can need a lot of gas
[14:15] <Chetic> what's that for ~30km altitude in time?
[14:15] <daveake> Because of cd
[14:15] <daveake> metres per second
[14:15] <Chetic> ah, I don' thave a lot of gas..
[14:16] <daveake> A "typical" flight might be a 1000g balloon with 800g of payload going to about 30km at 5m/s using about 3 cubic metres of gas (off the top of my head)
[14:16] <daveake> (and no I don't launch balloons from my head)
[14:16] <Chetic> my styrofoam container weighs 600g, I suppose I need to cut that down then..
[14:16] <daveake> wow
[14:16] <Chetic> contents is like 170g though
[14:17] <daveake> Your container is, as I suspect you know, too heavy
[14:17] <daveake> You can probably get that down to 100g
[14:17] <Chetic> hadn't considered that until now though
[14:17] <Chetic> wow, jesus
[14:17] <Chetic> cutting it was hell though
[14:17] <daveake> Well if it weighs 600g you didn't cut it enough :p
[14:18] <Chetic> I was happy to even end up with a box
[14:18] <Chetic> but yeah I suppose now I've had the practice to do it right :p
[14:18] <daveake> My wife did laugh when I once used a pre-made box. I then spent ages cutting it to make ... a smaller box
[14:18] <Chetic> what thickness of styrofoam do people use? I couldn't find anything that felt thin enough
[14:18] <Chetic> haha
[14:18] <Chetic> I want a premade box
[14:19] <daveake> Varies. There are 2 types of foam for a start - the white stuff that makes a mess, or the blue/pink stuff (colour depends on who made it) which is heavier, stronger, more brittle, but easy to cut with a sharp hobby knife
[14:20] <daveake> In the UK Hobbycraft now sell some nice pre-made boxes
[14:20] <daveake> using the white stuff
[14:20] <Chetic> ah that's why people use the colored stuff
[14:20] <daveake> For DIY I prefer the blue or pink stuff.
[14:20] <Chetic> yeah definitely for someone like me..
[14:20] <daveake> So much easier and more precise
[14:20] <daveake> ooh snow
[14:21] Action: daveake is in Landskrona this week
[14:21] <daveake> No, not launching anything
[14:22] <mfa298> just standard UK rain here.
[14:23] <Chetic> daveake: this the box you meant? http://www.hobbycraft.co.uk/hobbycraft-polystyrene-box-with-flat-lid/591590-1000
[14:23] <daveake> That's the one
[14:23] <gonzo_> glad you did a location update there dave. Had me worried!
[14:23] <Chetic> man, hope I can fit my gear in there
[14:24] <daveake> You can fit a Pi payload in there, or a camera plus a small tracker
[14:24] <mattbrejza> if not get two boxes :P
[14:24] <daveake> :)
[14:24] <mattbrejza> then you wont have camera interfering with gps issues
[14:24] <mfa298> or a penguin/ cat/ owl/ gnome
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[14:24] <gonzo_> three actually, Ron!
[14:24] <daveake> Ah yes I did consider the cat
[14:24] <daveake> But the cat had eaten all the cakes
[14:25] <mattbrejza> the cat was a bit big
[14:25] <Chetic> hrm, I'll get 4
[14:25] <Chetic> how come cameras interfere with GPS?
[14:25] <Chetic> I've been involved a bit in emc stuff at work
[14:25] <mattbrejza> either noise at 1.5GHz or noise at the IF
[14:25] <mfa298> they didn't have much left at the local hobbycraft when I went there.
[14:25] <daveake> Most cameras are fine but some of these cheap chinese "808" cameras are terrible
[14:26] <mattbrejza> the contour cameras arnt great either
[14:26] <gonzo_> general RF much from the digital bits, swamping the tiny GPSsignals
[14:26] <Chetic> I was gonna use the rpi camera
[14:26] <Chetic> since it weighs next to nothing
[14:26] <gonzo_> are GPS rx'a zero IF?
[14:26] <daveake> My last Pi flight was in one of those boxes
[14:26] <daveake> Pi + cam + 6 AAs + 3 cutdowns
[14:27] <Chetic> any lessons learned?
[14:27] <Chetic> that I can learn from
[14:27] <Chetic> etc
[14:27] <daveake> Yes. Use pyros for cutdowns :)
[14:27] <daveake> No, for a regular flight, that setup is just fine
[14:27] <Chetic> I wasn't planning on a cutdown
[14:27] <Chetic> think I'll get away with it?
[14:27] <daveake> Put the camera at one side and the GPS at the other side
[14:28] <Chetic> does the gps antenna need to poke out? (ublox max-6)
[14:28] <daveake> You should be OK anyway but the Pi cam in video mode can interfere with a GPS that is very close to the cable
[14:28] <daveake> no
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[14:28] <Chetic> yeah, no video I think
[14:28] <Chetic> too risky
[14:30] <mattbrejza> http://i.imgur.com/YmqdKLK.jpg
[14:31] <Chetic> that's kind of beautiful
[14:31] <Chetic> I'm in love with that box
[14:31] <jonsowman> :)
[14:31] <Chetic> how do you make sure it stays closed?
[14:31] <mattbrejza> gaffa tape
[14:32] <Chetic> my favorite :D
[14:32] <jonsowman> "how do you *" -> "gaffa tape"
[14:32] <Chetic> lol
[14:32] <Chetic> what do you use for lines?
[14:32] <mattbrejza> there is a hole in the top for the camera, but it doesnt actually poke through the top of the lid
[14:32] <Chetic> and where should I get my parachute?
[14:33] <mattbrejza> steve sells both
[14:33] <jonsowman> nylon cord typically for rigging, 1-2mm diameter should do you
[14:34] <LeoBodnar> thanks eroomde
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[14:36] <eroomde> what did i do?
[14:36] <eroomde> i've forgotten already
[14:36] <gonzo_> and a braided cord is better than wound, as it will not spin the payload as much when it's bobbing with tension
[14:36] <gonzo_> again, steve has on his site
[14:38] <gonzo_> interesting aside. When I was posting something at the weekend. I was asked what was in there. Did it have any batteries. And the girl got a barcode sheet to scan to log the various hazards in the package
[14:39] <eroomde> LiPos
[14:39] <LeoBodnar> Kernighan bit counting
[14:39] <eroomde> posties are super-jumpy about LiPos now
[14:39] <eroomde> you need special stickers
[14:39] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: oh yeah
[14:39] <gonzo_> yup, it was a phone with internal pack
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[14:39] <eroomde> that whole page is good
[14:39] <LeoBodnar> indeed
[14:39] <nats`> eroomde + they refuse to transport them if the enclosure is damaged
[14:40] <eroomde> nats`: indeed
[14:40] <gonzo_> also used lipo's are banned, unless they are integral to kit
[14:40] <gonzo_> new in retail/mfrs packaging are ok
[14:41] <qyx_> also china has some some lipo problems
[14:41] <qyx_> 2/3 of my phone battery replacements didnt arrive
[14:41] <nats`> qyx_ they just use lipo without charging protection
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[14:41] <eroomde> we get LiPo packs from deben for selling with some things
[14:41] <nats`> so they are often blocked by the custom
[14:41] <eroomde> they're great
[14:41] <eroomde> lots of builtin safety, and you're allowed to post them
[14:41] <eroomde> built-in charging too
[14:41] <eroomde> they're very end-user friendly
[14:42] <qyx_> nats`: i know, also the thermistor is replaced by 10K resistor
[14:42] <nats`> yuk
[14:42] <nats`> that's dirty
[14:43] <nats`> eroomde your bit hack page remind me of a great mystery in coding history
[14:43] <eroomde> fast inverse square root?
[14:43] <nats`> let me find back the page
[14:43] <eroomde> lemme guess
[14:43] <nats`> on video game ?
[14:43] <eroomde> yes
[14:43] <nats`> yep this one :)
[14:43] <eroomde> it's a classic
[14:43] <nats`> nobody knows who coded that
[14:43] <eroomde> some SGI nerd, is about as far as i think they could research
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[14:44] <eroomde> they had a lot of smart nerds there back in the day, so who knows
[14:44] <eroomde> i have used that hack for normalising quaternions
[14:44] <eroomde> in embedded
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[14:44] <laudenclear> gonzo_: regarding the "braided cord" talk before, can you please point to Steve's site you refered to?
[14:45] <eroomde> tubular nylon is good too from a twisting point of view
[14:45] <eroomde> but the best thing about tubular is you can do chinese-finger joins, which are better than any knot
[14:46] <mattbrejza> as we were talking about gaffa tape 5min ago: http://imgur.com/a/JGZdy
[14:49] <gonzo_> look at the UKHAS pages, under suppliers
[14:49] <gonzo_> Random Solutions is steve's site
[14:49] <laudenclear> oh, thatnks
[14:49] <gonzo_> between Him and upu's pages, you can get most of the HAB bits you need
[14:50] <Upu_M0UPU> I agree
[14:50] Nick change: Upu_M0UPU -> Upu
[14:50] <mattbrejza> and farnell
[14:50] <gonzo_> add a microprocessor, some code and a bottle of gas, any you are there
[14:50] <eroomde> i'd be lost without farnell
[14:50] <gonzo_> (and lots of pink gaffa)
[14:52] <gonzo_> Oh, and important to also mention a NOTAM if required
[14:52] <mfa298> don't forget the Bacon :)
[14:56] <laudenclear> and shaken, not stirred....
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[15:01] <Natio> Do any of you have experience with C# Visual Express?
[15:02] <nats`> a little
[15:02] <nats`> what do yo uwant ?
[15:02] <eroomde> from the name alone i can tell i'm not going to like it
[15:02] <Natio> Do you know if its possible to embed an application like putty, inside a windows form?
[15:03] <Natio> I want to make an email client
[15:03] <Natio> and use putty to communicate to gmails smtp server
[15:03] <mattbrejza> you can use plink at the command line
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[15:04] <Natio> So it is possible?
[15:04] <mattbrejza> i would assume so, but hard to say without knowing exact details
[15:05] <craag> Use putty to make a TCP connection from your program?!
[15:05] <Natio> I think so to. Gotta figure out which way to go around this
[15:05] <Natio> Yes, the built in class is not an option
[15:05] <mattbrejza> i would have thought there was an object already in c# to do encrypted connections thogh
[15:05] <craag> Really, why?
[15:05] <Natio> Sensei says no :)
[15:06] <craag> ?
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[15:06] <mattbrejza> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/jj150597.aspx ?
[15:07] <Natio> I have to send an email with raw data to accomplish the task, ssl and tsl is not an option either
[15:07] <Natio> Tricksy tricksy i know
[15:12] <nats`> ?
[15:12] <nats`> oO
[15:12] <nats`> open a socket
[15:12] <craag> So you have to make a TCP connection without using the TCP libraries?
[15:12] <nats`> anyway you can use pipe and itnernal socket
[15:12] <mfa298> if you're just using putty to open up a tcp connection (port 25) then that should be a couple of lines of code in any decent language.
[15:12] <nats`> that's clearly awfull to do that but hey....
[15:13] <mfa298> using an external program just to open a tcp connection sounds like an aweful horrible bodge.
[15:14] <nats`> he will spend more time using pipe to send his text in the putty pipe than opening a socket with included SSL and crypto lib
[15:14] <nats`> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb762927%28v=vs.110%29.aspx
[15:15] <nats`> maybe it'll help you
[15:15] <mfa298> I'm not even sure you can get putty to do the crypto needed for smtp either so it's just opening a tcp socket (which is about 10 lines of code in pure C - half of which is the error checking)
[15:16] <nats`> Natio use plink from the putty package
[15:16] <nats`> it's exactly for that
[15:16] <Natio> Sweet, thanks nats :)
[15:17] <nats`> http://the.earth.li/~sgtatham/putty/0.58/htmldoc/Chapter7.html
[15:17] <nats`> but keep considering that's really dirty :D
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[17:50] <Laurenceb_> sup folks
[17:51] Action: Laurenceb_ has been hard at work on his "acousto-optical avian behaviour modifier"
[17:51] <Chetic> I can't find a page on cord lengths.. is there one?
[17:52] <Laurenceb_> I'm being paid to make a disco for chickens
[17:52] <eroomde> Chetic: no
[17:53] <eroomde> if you want values, how about 10m from payload to chute, then 5m from chute to balloon
[17:53] <eroomde> but as you probably suspect, chord lengths are not rocket science
[17:53] <eroomde> feel free to do what you think is sense in the absense of a 'page'
[17:53] <eroomde> feel free to do what makes sense even if there is 'a page'
[17:54] <eroomde> whose to say the person who wrote it has any idea what they're talking about anyway
[17:54] <Laurenceb_> i wonder if there are fancy dress chicken suits to wear when i meet clients...
[17:54] <eroomde> who's*
[17:56] <Chetic> eroomde: I do value experience though :p
[17:56] <Chetic> but ok I guess it's not where I'm gonna fail
[17:56] <Chetic> thank you for the suggested lengths
[17:58] <Geoff-G8DHE> Laurenceb, Of course http://tinyurl.com/54fk
[18:01] <eroomde> yeah, i get crotchety sometimes
[18:01] <eroomde> too much information can stop people trying new things
[18:02] <eroomde> i try sometimes but i suspect i'll have as much luck as Cnut
[18:02] <daveake> Chetic There are things in HAB that are done simply because someone did something early on and documented it
[18:02] <daveake> Doesn't mean that i's the right way or best way or only way
[18:02] Action: daveake stares at the 2-output NTX2 circuit
[18:02] <Chetic> it's my first try at pretty much all aspects involved so I'm trying to be as safe as possible
[18:03] <eroomde> what do you think the people who did it before other people had done it did
[18:03] <eroomde> it was their first try too
[18:03] <Chetic> no I mean things like soldering and carving styrofoam :p
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[18:04] <Chetic> I have always been all software
[18:04] <eroomde> oh there was a good prog last night
[18:04] <eroomde> on at the same time as sherlock so i missed half of it
[18:04] <eroomde> on channel 4, a guy doing human-powered flight
[18:04] <eroomde> there was a nice cnc-foam-cutting machine
[18:05] <daveake> oh, 'im oop north?
[18:07] <eroomde> yes him
[18:08] <daveake> Guy Martin
[18:08] <eroomde> yes him
[18:08] <daveake> I watched one of the other ones in that series
[18:08] <daveake> Must catch up with the others
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[18:12] <eroomde> Chetic: worth looking up knots though
[18:12] <eroomde> or better, chinese-finger joins if using tubular nylon/kevlar/wahetevr
[18:13] <eroomde> (they're like knots but much better)
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[18:15] <Chetic> :|
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[18:20] <eroomde> i'll take that as a no
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[18:20] <eroomde> but srsly, being able to tie a figure-8 knot around a prexisting loop is super useful
[18:21] <eroomde> and it's, I think, the strongest knot
[18:21] <eroomde> (tho chinese fingures are stronger)
[18:21] <eroomde> it's like 80-ish% the yeild strength of the stuff it's made from
[18:21] <ibanezmatt13> Upu showed me a few knot tying skills including the fig of 8 one at the conf. Pretty handy to know
[18:22] <eroomde> yeah
[18:22] <eroomde> just make sure you can tie it around a prexisting loop
[18:22] <eroomde> it's easy to tie if you don't have to do that, i.e. by just doubling alength back on itself then tying that pair togther in a knot as if it were a normal string
[18:23] <ibanezmatt13> Yes I remember that bit being important. I will launch one day and tie it myself I promise :) Maybe if I attempted to do a small float before summer (if I work out how to fill the balloons...)
[18:23] <eroomde> but if you have to first thread the free end around a pre-existing loop, you can't do that
[18:24] <eroomde> examples of when that's useful include when you have to pull a landrover out of a bog in the highlands of scotland whilst trying to retreive a rocket stage, and you only have the landrover's tow loop and a reel of aerospace-grade 10kN kevlar
[18:24] <eroomde> also payloads
[18:24] <eroomde> here is an example chinese finger from one of our payloads
[18:25] <eroomde> http://i.imgur.com/hVpcwcK.png
[18:25] <ibanezmatt13> looks so simple in that pic
[18:25] <eroomde> these are much strong than any knot, 95ish% the yeild strong of the kevlar itself
[18:25] <eroomde> it is simple
[18:25] <eroomde> you just have to fashion some tools to help you make them
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[18:27] <mfa298> figure of eight is definetly one of the most useful knots to know.
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[18:29] <mfa298> although I wish I could remember the inline version better (bottom of http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/F8Knots.htm)
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[18:29] <adamgreig> woah
[18:29] <mfa298> that's great for doing guys or lashing down the cover on a trailer by giving a make shift pully
[18:29] <adamgreig> the figure of 8 knot I know is nothing like any of those
[18:30] <Chetic> how much does a 800g Hwoyee weigh?
[18:30] <adamgreig> just use it in sailing to keep the mainsheet from slipping through
[18:30] <adamgreig> more of an end stopper
[18:30] <eroomde> Chetic: is that a joke?
[18:30] <eroomde> if not, have a guess
[18:30] <eroomde> no one answer him
[18:30] Action: arko holds back
[18:30] <adamgreig> depends on the local gravitational conditions surely
[18:30] <eroomde> touche
[18:30] <mfa298> adamgreig: I'm guessing you're using what's the start position of first on that page
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[18:30] <Chetic> I thought that was the lifting force
[18:30] <arko> Chetic lives on the moon
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> Chetic: To be fair - it's a reasonable question.
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[18:31] <Chetic> I'm screwed
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> Chetic: It was not immediately apparant to me it was the balloon weight either.
[18:31] <adamgreig> hopefully about 7.85 newtons
[18:31] <eroomde> Chetic: lifting force is a function of how much helium you put in
[18:31] <Chetic> assuming some amount of helium of course
[18:31] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: but it could be reasonably rated under standard conditions.
[18:31] <eroomde> 800g's of lift worth :p
[18:32] <Chetic> damn it so that means when it bursts, it's gonna weigh down the chute by 800g?
[18:32] <adamgreig> mfa298: looks similar
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> '800g' as a balloon rating makes about as much sense as watts for LED lights.
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> Chetic: If it all stays attached, yes
[18:32] <ibanezmatt13> Chetic, I think when it bursts there's typically not much left
[18:32] <adamgreig> was getting a bit confused about all this talk of figure 8s being super strong knots
[18:32] <SpeedEvil> Chetic: It usually does not.
[18:32] <Chetic> so how the heck do I know what chute to get?
[18:33] <adamgreig> I usually get the medium sized one
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> Chetic: this isn't always the case, there have been some large lumps of balloon that have come back
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> I think there's a guide on the Wiki for that
[18:33] <adamgreig> sometimes I get the diet one though, oops
[18:33] <arko> http://habhub.org/calc/
[18:33] <arko> something helpful
[18:33] <ibanezmatt13> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:parachute_sizing_chart
[18:33] <SpeedEvil> On parachutes.
[18:33] <Chetic> I can't use that when I don't know how much the balloon will weigh :p
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[18:33] <SpeedEvil> Typically these are arranged symmetrically around a vertical string.
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[18:35] <SpeedEvil> Is there a reason for - with a conical parachute - to tie the middle of the string to the cable, so it goes up parallel? With the idea that if there is a significant lmass of balloon - the balloon will tend to fall off the chute - and come down next to the payload?
[18:35] <SpeedEvil> Or am I overthinking things.
[18:35] <mfa298> adamgreig: that's what I learned as the original fig8 knot, the first two on that page are effectivly doubling up the rope to give a loop, commonly used in climbing for attaching the rope to harness (although I think with a couple of half hitches on top as well). The inline version is slightly different (hence why I can never remember how to tie it).
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[18:36] <adamgreig> i learnt the thief knot this summer
[18:36] <adamgreig> "quick release"
[18:36] <adamgreig> that was fun
[18:37] <mfa298> is that the one that looks a bit like a reef knot or is it a different thief knot
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[18:37] <adamgreig> yes it looks a bit similar
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[18:37] <adamgreig> but has one free end and if you tug it the whole thing comes undone nearly instantly
[18:38] <adamgreig> very strong on the end in load
[18:38] <adamgreig> ideal for securing all your possessions to your canoe as you go through rapids
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[18:38] <adamgreig> if you tip over it stays held on to the boat, but when you go to recover it you can quickly get them free
[18:39] <mfa298> I hadn't come accross it like that. I'd heard of it being a theif knot as someone would look at it thinking it's a reef knot, undo it to take your possesions, then do a reef knot. Meaning you know things have been tampered with.
[18:39] <mattbrejza> what time do you have to order by on farnell for them to ship it that day?
[18:39] <adamgreig> oh cute
[18:39] <adamgreig> this is a thief knot because highwaymen used them on their horses I think
[18:39] <adamgreig> mattbrejza: mouse over stock qty, it'l say
[18:39] <adamgreig> varies for eu vs uk warehouse
[18:39] <adamgreig> but like 8pm for uk iirc
[18:39] <adamgreig> mfa298: good for attaching things to saddles for the same reason
[18:40] <adamgreig> comes off quickly when you want to manually release it
[18:40] <mattbrejza> oh right thanks
[18:40] <mattbrejza> how did i not notice that before
[18:42] <mattbrejza> also farnell is later than onecall
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[18:46] <eroomde> curry time
[18:46] <arko> YES
[18:46] <eroomde> late one at work upsettingly
[18:46] <arko> good thinking
[18:46] <eroomde> customer been given some horrendous amateur-hour bodge of a pan-tilt mount
[18:46] <eroomde> it failed
[18:47] <arko> haha
[18:47] <eroomde> came to us saing 'i need to demo at noon tomorrow, please can you do something with this, i'll give you anything';
[18:47] <arko> "amateur-hour bodge"
[18:47] <arko> haha
[18:47] <eroomde> so we're cncing up a proper thing and stripping all the tronics from the old one and reintegrating
[18:47] <eroomde> rc hobby people really do sell shit to each other
[18:47] <arko> haha
[18:47] <eroomde> it's astonishing
[18:47] <eroomde> anyway brb
[18:48] <eroomde> infact james wants to put a coat of primer on so here for 5 more minutes
[18:48] <eroomde> yeah, both the mechanical and electronics craftsmanship are bad
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[18:48] <eroomde> (horrible soldering, wiring looms are bodgets and there's even electrical tape instead of heatshrink boots)
[18:48] <eroomde> and the design is also crap
[18:49] <eroomde> so it's both a craftmasnship and engineering fail
[18:49] <eroomde> it's fibreglass made to look like carbon fibre
[18:49] Action: LazyLeopard repaired nephew's r/c plane using a hypodermic needle as a drill, and a dry grass stem as a replacement axle...
[18:49] <eroomde> i realised when he had both 9.6V and ground bolted on screyes with eyes onto the 'carbon fibre' sheet to distribute power
[18:50] <arko> huh
[18:50] <LazyLeopard> Heh. ;)
[18:50] <eroomde> it's bad
[18:50] <arko> wow thats sad man
[18:50] <arko> >_<
[18:51] <eroomde> still no oen seems to want to pay more than £50 for anything rc
[18:51] <eroomde> so it's eaither done by chinese slaves or by people who if they were any good would never charge so little
[18:51] <arko> i think the latter
[18:52] <arko> people buying rc hobby stuff dont know any better
[18:52] <arko> and the ones who do, just build their own
[18:52] <LazyLeopard> At 50 quid it probably still ends up at an effective 5 quid a second... ;)
[18:52] <arko> and would charge others $$$$$ to do it
[18:52] <arko> i really do want to build a nice pan tilt for cubesats, etc
[18:52] <eroomde> arko: got a free IR cam in exchange for some weekend hacking
[18:52] <eroomde> it's a beaut
[18:52] <arko> :D
[18:52] <arko> what kind?
[18:53] <eroomde> http://www.irisys.co.uk/thermal-imaging/IRI5000-Series/
[18:53] <eroomde> bbl
[18:53] <arko> :D!!!!
[18:53] <arko> dude
[18:53] <arko> im jelly
[18:54] <arko> i haven;t looked into it, but i assume those you need for rockets have actively cooled CCDs
[18:58] <arko> oh look at that LWIR is 8-15um
[18:59] <arko> your camera is 8 - 14¼m, nice
[19:00] <SiC> most of the older thermal imaging sensors needed to be cooled to near absolute zero
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: damn.
[19:00] <SiC> the modern ones seem to have worked around that
[19:01] <SiC> I remember sitting in a harrier playing with its thermal imaging system
[19:01] <SiC> good fun :D
[19:02] <SiC> but yea, they carried on-board a complete cryogenic cooling system
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[19:13] <aadamson> LeoBodnar, not sure if you are around this afternoon/evening, but figured I'd give you the latest
[19:15] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:15] <Upu> evening
[19:16] <SpeedEvil> Evening jcoxon.
[19:16] <aadamson> so I spent some time with my spec an and a scope this morning. a) with no PWM to the VCXO, the 27mhz signal to the Si chip is prefect and clean, a little low in frequency so I guess I'll check my resistor divider and use some closer tolerance parts there to take 3v3 to 1.65, but I'll deal with that later. Output of the Si was also perfect with no sidebands/harmonics or whatever you want to call them
[19:16] <arko> evening
[19:18] <aadamson> plugged in the pwm and just it running at 31.2khz through the lpf on the pwm I still get 2 peaks boths sides of the 27mhz signal at 35-40db down
[19:18] <number10> evening
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[19:18] <aadamson> so it's the pwm that's causing that issue the filter (all RC - passives) just isn't good enough to deal with it.
[19:19] <YO9ICT> 40db means 100 times lower
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[19:19] <aadamson> For now I'll live it as I don't want to put in an active filter
[19:20] <aadamson> but a huge thanks to all for the coaching and encouragement... I fixed the xin thing with your suggestions... so I'm a happy camper at the moment.
[19:20] <aadamson> I've decided that with the stm32 I'll use a dac instead of pwm that should help as well
[19:27] <jcoxon> aadamson, a good reason to go with an stm32
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[19:27] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:27] <jcoxon> aadamson, have you seen the teensy 3.1
[19:27] <aadamson> jcoxon, yup, one of many
[19:27] <aadamson> I saw an early version of that
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[19:27] <jcoxon> quite good for prototyping
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[19:29] <aadamson> yeah that is pretty nice.. and they did an M4 core... my stm32mini is an F303 which is what I'll use
[19:30] <aadamson> I wonder how on earth they routed that thing, must be 4 layer?
[19:31] <jcoxon> its pretty impressive work
[19:34] <aadamson> yeah, and only 2 layer even more impressive... I'll have to pick one up just to play with, but I am pretty partial to the stm's :)
[19:35] <jcoxon> bbl
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[20:12] <tweetBot> @AnthonyStirk: New tracker board blog post http://t.co/OnQEgNcM7z #ukhas
[20:14] <jcoxon> Upu, nice article
[20:15] <Upu> ta
[20:18] <Lunar_Lander> cool!
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[20:36] <Broliv> Hi all
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[20:59] <tweetBot> @AnthonyStirk: Another blog on the recent flight across Europe. Thanks to all #ukhas and #hamr for help tracking http://t.co/h6dwRXZXyW
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[21:06] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> These Ultimate Lithium AA's have gotten so hot I can't hold them in my hand for more than 2 seconds before it hurts...
[21:11] <Upu> you're doing something wrong
[21:11] <Upu> disconnect them
[21:11] <ibanezmatt13> Nope, not the tracker. It's in the camera :P
[21:12] <ibanezmatt13> I've had the camera vidoeoing for 2.5 hours non stop, they're awfully hot
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[21:13] <ibanezmatt13> Says on the datasheet. max operating temp 60 deg C, and I can safely say that's waaay less than what they are now
[21:14] <qyx_> fire, exclamation mark, fire!
[21:14] <ibanezmatt13> it's ok, I just opened my window and launched them
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[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[21:20] <eroomde> D connectors are nice
[21:20] <eroomde> i'm coming round to them big time
[21:20] <eroomde> also this thermal camera is f*ing awesome
[21:20] <eroomde> it focuses so well
[21:20] <eroomde> you can see my arteries and veins and almost fingerprint
[21:28] <arko> is it suitable for rocket testing/analysis
[21:28] <arko> ?
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[21:29] <iain_g4sgx> Upu: Nice article. How come you're using a 16Mhz clock for the Si4060? I thought thoise Si chips used a 30Mhz xtal.
[21:29] <eroomde> probably
[21:29] <arko> neat
[21:29] <eroomde> one use case we have in mind is spotting hydrogen fires
[21:29] <eroomde> which don't really emit anything visible
[21:29] <eroomde> which can make walking through one a bit of a ... surprise
[21:30] <eroomde> iain_g4sgx: he does point out it's thoroughly out of spec
[21:30] <Upu> thx Iain
[21:30] <Upu> they are
[21:30] <Upu> but to get the step size for Domino we have to use something out of spec
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[21:32] <arko> eroomde: funny story, the shake and bake lab here at jpl has a broom stick labelled "ol trusty", the engineers use it by waving it around as they approach the hydrogen tanks/setup. If the broom catches fire before you do, it's probably a good idea to stop walking
[21:32] <arko> ^ true fact
[21:32] <eroomde> yes
[21:33] <eroomde> infact you'll notice i roucounted that exact story in an alternative irc channel you might belong to perhaps a bit earlier :)
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[21:33] <iain_g4sgx> Wow, 30Mhz to 16Mhz is quite a step indeed. I suppose all the frequency setting registers are also out then.
[21:33] <arko> we talked about this?
[21:34] <eroomde> no i talked about it
[21:34] <eroomde> it's a rocket lore
[21:34] <arko> wtf
[21:34] <arko> i tripping out
[21:35] <eroomde> listen to the voices
[21:35] <arko> they say "EAT MORE CURRY"
[21:35] <arko> i agree with them
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[21:36] <eroomde> seen sherlock yet?
[21:36] <arko> NO
[21:37] <arko> please no spoilers :)
[21:37] <torment> can a thermal camera video how hot it gets if it records itself in a mirror
[21:39] <adamgreig> the mirror would have to be reflective at IR
[21:39] <eroomde> whatever schroedinger
[21:39] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Do hydrogen fires emit meaningfully as low as 5um?
[21:40] <SpeedEvil> I guess water recombintion, so yes
[21:40] <arko> short answer yes
[21:40] <arko> long answer yyyeessssssss
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[21:53] <iain_g4sgx> Good to know those chips work so out of range. I suppose a 32.88Mhz clock would also work for DominoEx spacing (with one step) and be less out of spec.
[21:54] <Laurenceb_> so how come delta 5 is so orange?
[21:55] <eroomde> are you high?
[21:55] <iain_g4sgx> sri. 27.3 Mhz
[21:55] <Upu> yup probably iain_g4sgx but I think we couldn't get TCXO's in that frequency
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> erm
[21:56] <Upu> or we could but they were dumb expensive
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> v
[21:56] <Laurenceb_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL1dEBZ6Vyc
[21:57] <arko> thats a big rocket
[21:59] <arko> it really doesnt look healthy with the outside burned
[22:02] <SpeedEvil> I gess it's just recirculating gas
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[22:04] <iain_g4sgx> Upu: Ah of course. Is it not possible to use these? They seem temperature stable and can be programmed I beleive though I havent looked too hard. http://www.abracon.com/Oscillators/ASFLMB.pdf
[22:06] <MLow> whats the rtlsdr channel?
[22:07] <bertrik> ##rtlsdr
[22:08] <MLow> ty
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[22:11] <craag> iain_g4sgx: +-50ppm!
[22:12] <eroomde> for ref the tcxo on my gps receiver is +/- 0.1ppm
[22:13] <eroomde> just to put into perspective how shit 50ppm is
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[22:14] <craag> Yep, +-20Khz at 434Mhz... that could be quite some drift!
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[22:15] <iain_g4sgx> wow, good point. Not much improvement over an xtal then. My search for a decent 30Mhz tcxo continues.
[22:16] <Upu> http://uk.farnell.com/txc/7l-16-369mbg-t/oscillator-tcxo-16-369mhz-smd/dp/2095948
[22:16] <Upu> thats what I'm using
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[22:24] <iain_g4sgx> Interesting. Maybe a 27Mhz tcxo gives a single spacing of about 15.88Hz
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[22:28] <Laurenceb_> thats how LeoBodnar does it
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[22:31] <Upu> he uses the 16Mhz ones
[22:34] <iain_g4sgx> Maybe my maths is wrong or there another reason.
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[22:36] <Laurenceb_> http://hackaday.com/2014/01/13/tape-measure-vhf-yagi-antenna/
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[00:00] --- Tue Jan 14 2014