highaltitude.log.20140110

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[01:32] <Suns> hello all
[01:32] <Suns> do anyone have some experience with dominoex4 protocol?
[01:33] <Suns> I coded the encoder for the atmega8, but fldigi is not reciving the characters very well.
[01:34] <Suns> sending eino eino eino eino in a loop manner, but receiving eeiro eino eeiro eino eearo eino eeiro eino eearo eino eearo eino eeiro eino ee
[01:34] <Suns> do anyone knows what is happening?
[01:35] <mfa298> Hi Suns, most people are probably sleeping at the moment
[01:36] <Suns> haha, diferent timezone
[01:36] <mfa298> how are you generating the tones and what tx module are you using
[01:37] <Suns> i´m generating the tone with squarewave, i will use a VHF transceiver.
[01:37] <Suns> now only in loopback conection with a pc.
[01:38] <mfa298> it could be that you don't quite have the tone spacing correct (or the timings)
[01:38] <Suns> appers to be a problem with the circular way I made the IFK+
[01:39] <Suns> when the sequence start with eino without the reset it send ok.
[01:40] <Suns> i simply use %18 to wrap around the counter.
[01:41] <mfa298> most people doing domino so far have done it by feeding voltages into something like the ntx2b to shift the carrier, or using a chip where they can programme the carrier with suitable shift and then using an ssb capable radio to decode
[01:43] <Suns> true, using the fm modules like on the site. thats is ok too. but anyway my encoder will send the whong tone.
[01:44] <mfa298> might be worth just using a small set of characters to test with and print out the tone numbers it should be sending if you want to check it's doing the right thing
[01:45] <mfa298> you can then compare what the code is doing to what you think it should be doing.
[01:46] <Suns> yeah i´m sending "eino" that is the short difference in tone
[01:46] <mfa298> %18 sounds like it might be right (assuming you're assigning the result back to the value)
[01:47] <Suns> but receiving eeiro eino eeiro eino eearo eino eeiro eino eearo eino eearo eino eeiro eino ee
[01:47] <Suns> yeah
[01:47] <Suns> dex=(dex+nibble+2)%18;
[01:48] <Suns> im receiving eino but the next sequence wrong.
[01:54] <mfa298> some of those errors look oddly consistent. I'd guess the tone gap might be slightly off especially where you're getting r (7) instead of n(6)
[01:55] <mfa298> for DominoEX4 I think they should be 7.8125Hz apart
[01:57] <mfa298> depending on the operating system on your pc it's also possible the sound system is doing something odd (several people have had issues with pulseaudio on Linux)
[02:01] <Suns> hum, I take in the osciloscope and changed to 255.9958 ms to do the 256ms.
[02:01] <Suns> eeeeiiiinnnnoooo received ok with no erros, but now i have problem with characters with more than one nibble.
[02:02] <Suns> Maybe i need to sum 8 the the second nibble.
[02:04] <mfa298> I'm wondering if the square wave might be causing some issues as well, things at the audio level are probably expecting something more like a sine wave.
[02:05] <mfa298> sending more nibbles should be exactly the same as a single nibble, but you only need to send them if they're defined
[02:05] <Suns> i did do a lowpass, and is looking nice in the waterfall. but have a little clicking noise
[02:06] <Suns> eino chars are ok now, but multnibble is not, searching where is the problem.
[02:07] <mfa298> so for a you just send a single tone (4+2) for b you send two tones (1+2 then 11+2)
[02:08] <Suns> yeah
[02:09] <Suns> i intended to do that but i see now the second nibble is not working
[02:09] <mfa298> It's probably a lot easier if you're just adjusting a voltage with something like the ntx2b, i think generating audio to feed into a radio to the tx (possibly over fm??) is adding extra complexity and I'm not really sure what the benefit is
[02:10] <Darkside> yep
[02:10] <Darkside> you lose th benefit of dominoex's low symbol rate if you remodulate it over FM
[02:11] <Darkside> all the dominoex transmitters that have been flown so far are genersting voltags to be fed into a VCO (i.e. the NTX2B)
[02:12] <Darkside> well, either that or setting the carrier frequency of anotehr oscillator (i..e the Si446X series)
[02:12] <Suns> ok, I can generate the voltage to send over a fmmodule.
[02:12] <Suns> but as it is it will not work.
[02:13] <Darkside> Suns: there are some existing implementations of dominoEX out there
[02:13] <Darkside> go check on of those
[02:13] <mfa298> if you're using the ntx2b the carrier frequency is controlled by the voltage into the tx pin.
[02:13] <Suns> i´m checking those.
[02:13] <Suns> i need to do a DAC resistor network.
[02:13] <Suns> it is alright.
[02:14] <mfa298> with a arduino/avr I think you just need a suitable series resistor to give the pwm enough resolution.
[02:15] <mfa298> so instead of the input to the ntx2b being 0-Vcc it's a much smaller range
[02:16] <mfa298> or you can use something like a 12 bit dac to generate the voltages
[02:16] <mfa298> the key part is that the shift of the carrier with the ntx2b should be around 2000Hz/V
[02:17] <mfa298> so you need to be able to adjust the voltage enough to give the shift you need per tone
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[02:18] <Suns> my actual intention is trasmit not only dominoex. I have CW ,psk31 and feldhell modulation running somewhat ok in the atmega.
[02:19] <Suns> so i intent to cycle a few minutes for each one.
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[06:48] <eroomde> morning
[06:59] <Upu> morning
[07:00] <arko> morning
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[07:18] <qyx_> morning
[07:39] <WillTablet> morning
[07:40] <WillTablet> www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWZFXLpXSA
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[08:02] <fsphil> morning
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[08:28] <DL1SGP1> good morning folks
[08:28] Nick change: DL1SGP1 -> DL1SGP
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[08:55] <eroomde> https://twitter.com/OxFloodTweet/status/421552048455561216
[08:55] <eroomde> water levels dropping!
[08:55] <eroomde> for context, osney lock is on the thames, and about 10m from the back of my garden
[08:55] <eroomde> so this is good news
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[09:41] <Joel_re> hey, where do you guys in UK file NOTAMs, online ?
[09:41] Action: Joel_re wonders if this is the place for his country - https://onlinefpl.in/index.php?option=com_extendedreg&task=login
[09:42] <eroomde> in the UK we send them to the Civil Aviation AUthority
[09:42] <eroomde> to be clear, we don't file them in the sense that we announce we're launching, we actually have to be granted permission by the CAA
[09:43] <eroomde> so you ask for permission for a given time/place, and you get a yes or no (and accompanying paperwork if yes) back
[09:43] <eroomde> i'm labouring the point as some people in the UK have mistakenly assumed you merely had to tell them you were going to launch
[09:44] <Joel_re> eroomde: ok
[09:44] <Joel_re> I do have to send it to the Civil Aviation Authority
[09:45] <eroomde> ah, so you're in the UK?
[09:45] <Joel_re> no no, Im in India
[09:46] <eroomde> ah, afriad I don't know how it works there
[09:46] <Joel_re> I'm guessing I need to send it to Airport Authority of India
[09:46] <eroomde> there have been some indian habbers in the last couple of years
[09:46] <eroomde> might be worth a google
[09:46] <Joel_re> hmm
[09:46] <Joel_re> are there any samples of NOTAMS filed
[09:46] <Joel_re> what sort of purpose do you mention
[09:47] <eroomde> honestly, I have no idea how it works in india
[09:47] <eroomde> sorry
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[09:48] <eroomde> it's very specific from country to country, any advice you get here other than by someone who explicitly knows how it works in india will be of almost no value
[09:48] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[09:49] <Joel_re> ok
[09:49] <Joel_re> thanks though
[09:50] <eroomde> i can tell you how it works in the uk for what it's worth
[09:51] <eroomde> we give latitude and longitude and time we wish to launch, by reply you might get a yes, no problem, or a no, or a 'yes but you can only launch up to 7.30am on that day' or something similar
[09:51] <eroomde> it's almost entirely a function of the local air traffic
[09:51] <Joel_re> ok
[09:52] <eroomde> i've also done rocket notams
[09:52] <eroomde> they actually diverted transatlantic air traffic for us for one hour a day for a week
[09:53] <zyp> launch window of only one hour per day? that sounds short
[09:54] <eroomde> reread what they had to do to give us that hour
[09:54] <zyp> I did, but still
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[09:54] <eroomde> you can't just tell all BA and virgin to completely avoid scotland all week
[09:54] <eroomde> only volcanoes get to do that level of distruption
[09:55] <eroomde> also rocket prep is significantly more involved and complicated than balloon prep, so you sort of aim for a 3pm launch and spend all morning preparing for uit
[09:55] <zyp> is this amateur rocketry?
[09:55] <eroomde> and your window will be 3-4, and if you miss it, tough.
[09:56] <eroomde> yes
[09:56] <eroomde> although at the upper end of it, i.e. altitudes up to 25km
[09:56] <zyp> ok
[09:56] <eroomde> most amateur rocketry launches have significantly lower altitude caps, eg 3-5km
[09:56] <eroomde> in europe anyway
[09:58] <zyp> I grew up right next to the norwegian rocket range, and went to space tech school there, so I've been watching a couple of real rocket campaigns and participated in a student campaign there
[09:58] <Joel_re> eroomde: is there a online page for NOTAM filing in the UK
[09:58] <Joel_re> I'd like to use that as an example to ask the current authorities
[09:58] <tweetBot> @stratodean: In case you missed it yesterday, here is the making of our Santa Sleigh Test! http://t.co/tn1aC2vVrG #santasleightest #makingof #ukhas
[09:59] <Joel_re> since there isn't any clear document about it anywhere
[09:59] <zyp> and the launch windows there are usually significantly larger to allow for hitting the exact atmospheric conditions that the scientists are looking for
[09:59] Action: Joel_re is going to file a Right to Information request
[09:59] <eroomde> zyp: sure, it's a different story for research
[09:59] <eroomde> although there's a lot less air traffic there
[09:59] <eroomde> eg andoya
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[09:59] <zyp> yes
[10:00] <eroomde> but this was a 1-week per year group going up to scotland
[10:00] <eroomde> i'm hopping to go up and recce andoya soon
[10:00] <LeoBodnar> morning
[10:01] <nats`> hi LeoBodnar \o/
[10:01] <nats`> got the pcb this morning :)
[10:01] <eroomde> what was your project zyp?
[10:01] <zyp> in what regard?
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> eroomde I have started playing with GPS sample but spectrum looks a bit harsh http://leobodnar.com/balloons/files/spectrum.png
[10:02] <eroomde> i forget how far north it is. it's almost level with tromso, which is the most north i've ever been
[10:02] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: yep
[10:02] <zyp> a bit more south
[10:02] <eroomde> it's basically just the spectrum of 6mhz of white noise but with passband trolloff either side
[10:02] <eroomde> rolloff
[10:03] <qyx_> trolloff
[10:03] <LeoBodnar> cool. Out of interest what was the hardware the sample has been taken on and sky/RX conditions?
[10:03] <eroomde> filters that mess with you
[10:03] <eroomde> like microstrip filters
[10:03] <qyx_> hmmm
[10:03] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: sige and clear sky, i believe
[10:03] <qyx_> LeoBodnar: where do you have that sample from?
[10:03] <eroomde> the 4110 or whatever it is
[10:03] <eroomde> it's from one of their USB dongles
[10:04] <eroomde> qyx_: me
[10:04] <LeoBodnar> I have expected smoother spectrum tbh
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[10:04] <qyx_> eroomde: would you mind sharing?
[10:04] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5z1l9wss9xmt1oi/exampledata.bin
[10:04] <qyx_> o, thx
[10:04] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: dunno what to tell you!
[10:05] <eroomde> is that the whole lot?
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> yeah, it's OK, I just thought I am doing something wrong
[10:05] <eroomde> looks alright to me
[10:06] <eroomde> in as much as it's noise with a hump
[10:06] <eroomde> the hump being from the saw filter i guess
[10:06] <gurgalof> aww, seems like I need a expensive permit even for a pico payload :(
[10:06] <eroomde> what country gurgalof?
[10:06] <gurgalof> Sweden
[10:06] <eroomde> hmmm
[10:06] <eroomde> Reb-SM3ULC: ping
[10:07] <eroomde> assuming you're swedish
[10:07] <eroomde> i forget
[10:07] <LeoBodnar> I would have expected white noise mostly originating before IF filtering
[10:07] <gurgalof> SM is a swedish amateur
[10:08] <gurgalof> I'll need to mail the authorities and ask, I just read all the stuff on their website
[10:09] <LeoBodnar> but hey, we get what we get
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[10:10] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb pages 33-34 http://epubl.luth.se/1402-1757/2007/32/LTU-LIC-0732-SE.pdf
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[10:11] <LeoBodnar> USB/PC interference could be screwing things up
[10:11] <LeoBodnar> Sorry ^^ eroomde rather
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[10:17] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: maybe
[10:17] <eroomde> but i get bitstreams out of it jsut fine
[10:17] <eroomde> i've had no cause to question the data thus far
[10:17] <eroomde> though i've been mostly working with data i've sampled myself
[10:19] <gurgalof> how is the law in britain for pico paylods? is there a link where I can read, and refer my countrys authorities to?
[10:19] <LeoBodnar> great, that's all I need to know for now. I just didn't see what I naively expected.
[10:20] <eroomde> if the entire system never exceeds 2m in any dimension, you don't need permission
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[10:24] <eroomde> https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2628/20130725SERAConsultationDocumentDraftAnnexFSERAROTA2014ConsolidationUpdatedAMCGMV2.pdf
[10:25] <eroomde> apprendix 2 on page 70 has all the balloon crap
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[10:27] <LeoBodnar> eroomde what is the main link to your GPS talk? Video and maybe handouts/code
[10:28] <gurgalof> eroomde: thanks, I will write up a mail..
[10:31] <gurgalof> It seems like you could send up small balloons a couple of years ago, but that changed when the lantern thai-balloons became popular
[10:37] <tweetBot> @daveake: #UKHAS #RaspberryPi BBC 'Cracking the Code' with HAB flight (from 23:15) is back on iPlayer http://t.co/SPOWqdg6ri
[10:39] <fsphil> the bbc should bring back the learning zone
[10:40] <gonzo_> open university, with black and white tutorials, with big 70's collars
[10:40] <fsphil> yea
[10:40] <fsphil> even the old stuff would be interesting
[10:41] <fsphil> or show some lectures. I'm sure a university would be happy to do it
[10:41] <gonzo_> the subject marterial don't change. just the collars
[10:41] <gonzo_> and hair
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[10:42] <gonzo_> but you know that below camera shot, they would be searing sandels. And still are today
[10:45] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_ is your sampler standalone or USB streaming?
[10:46] <Laurenceb_> USB
[10:47] <Laurenceb_> arg so many people hassling me
[10:48] <Laurenceb_> i seriously need to quit my job
[10:49] <Laurenceb_> as the only person who ever turns up for work, i get the workload of the whole company :S
[10:50] <LeoBodnar> sounds like you won't have problems finding better place
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[10:52] <Reb-SM3ULC> eroomde: Hej!
[10:52] <Laurenceb_> heh
[10:52] <Laurenceb_> i also get blamed for all the issues
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[10:54] <Laurenceb_> my email is firing away at about an angry user every 30 seconds atm
[10:55] <Laurenceb_> time to go to Lincoln to meet angry people :-/ bbl
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[11:16] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: i haven't written it up yet
[11:17] <eroomde> because i am lazy and job absorbs 99% of technical thought cycles. but mainly the lazy bit
[11:17] <eroomde> i know i really should
[11:17] <eroomde> the video is on the batc website which is crap and doesn't give proper URLs
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[11:17] <eroomde> fsphil: youtube is surely a much awesomer platform for uni lectures
[11:18] <LeoBodnar> i like iTunes U
[11:19] <LeoBodnar> It does not have stupid comments
[11:19] Joel_re (~jr@static-mum-182.56.232.222.mtnl.net.in) joined #highaltitude.
[11:19] <LeoBodnar> And you can attach different media to lectures like documents
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[11:24] <eroomde> yeah, the face + screen style is very useful
[11:24] <eroomde> there's some excellent mit stuff about the shuttle from the shuttle engineers, but you can never see the slides
[11:26] <eroomde> the ipython notebook i used for the talk could be beefed up to be self-contained
[11:26] <eroomde> as you can do markup and LaTeX notation in the cells
[11:26] <eroomde> that's probably what I should do
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[12:01] <Lunar_LanderT> hello
[12:05] <fsphil> yooyo
[12:09] <gonzo_> good arve
[12:09] <gonzo_> arvo even
[12:10] <Reb-SM3ULC> How much do a launc-permit cost in the uk? 0?
[12:11] <eroomde> yes
[12:11] <fsphil> just costs time
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[12:14] <Reb-SM3ULC> Seem to cost about 470 euro in Sweden.. possibly another 315 euro for an "id"...
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[12:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> and i thought uk rules for not allowing aprs was stupid...
[12:15] <x-f> :(
[12:15] <Reb-SM3ULC> Swedish rules mandate you have to make sure ball00n never can make to another country..
[12:16] <Lunar_LanderT> damn
[12:17] <LeoBodnar> what Swedes define as "balloon"?
[12:17] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: have not found out yet. i guess "light" is <200 kg or something...
[12:20] <x-f> worth asking them anyway, perhaps they can make an exception with more sensible fees for occasional amateur launches?
[12:20] <Reb-SM3ULC> LeoBodnar: light balloon is < 4g kg
[12:22] <gonzo_> no amateur tx is allowed airborne in uk
[12:22] <gonzo_> not just aprs
[12:23] <gonzo_> looking at that doc that ed linked earlier, for a heavy balloon, you need tracking and two independant cutdown mechs
[12:24] <gonzo_> could not see the <2mtr rule in there anywhere. Must be in a differnt doc
[12:26] <daveake> Might be interesting - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-25680706
[12:30] <gonzo_> nasa tv runs the ISS almos continuously
[12:34] <fsphil> don't think it's in HD is it?
[12:34] <fsphil> I wonder if they're using the new DVB transmitter on the station
[12:36] <gurgalof> yeah, we can have amateur radio in the air, but sending balloons is expensive as hell
[12:39] <Laurenceb> so i travel 50 miles to fix some hardware
[12:39] <Laurenceb> usb cable needed to be plugged in...
[12:43] <LeoBodnar> haha
[12:45] <Laurenceb> http://hackaday.com/2014/01/10/drawing-with-legos/
[12:47] <DL1SGP> legos rock
[12:47] <DL1SGP> :)
[12:48] <gonzo_> I don't think that has been installed yet phil
[12:48] <gonzo_> they will be using internet streaming via the tdrss sats
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[12:50] <Laurenceb> *-s
[12:50] <Laurenceb> DDevine says:
[12:50] <Laurenceb> January 10, 2014 at 2:04 am
[12:50] <Laurenceb> The word “Legos” makes me so mad that I am considering unsubscribing from the HAD RSS feed.
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[12:53] <fsphil> but then how will he find out about the HADs
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[13:47] <Lunar_LanderT> did you see Raul's LEGO car?
[13:47] <Lunar_LanderT> (he was on here in 2011 when he wanted to fly the LEGO shuttle on a HAB)
[13:52] <BrainDamage> flying a lego shuttle would make the nickname of flying brick of a nasa's shuttle become rather literal
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[14:52] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[15:07] <LeoBodnar> ping Upu
[15:08] <UpuWork> hi LeoBodnar
[15:09] <UpuWork> if its not raning this evening I'm launching a THOR tracker
[15:09] <UpuWork> http://ready.arl.noaa.gov/hypubout/155761_trj001.gif
[15:09] <UpuWork> http://imgur.com/keMyPg1,FHaQFbd#1
[15:11] <Reb-SM3ULC> UpuWork: freqs?
[15:12] <LeoBodnar> cool!
[15:13] <Reb-SM3ULC> mightmightmight be in range for me. :)
[15:14] <UpuWork> 434.498
[15:14] <UpuWork> I'm going to do a Leo
[15:14] <UpuWork> launch it then casually see if anyone notices
[15:15] <qyx_> "to do a Leo"
[15:15] <qyx_> hh
[15:16] <UpuWork> back in 5
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[15:17] <gurgalof> if I remember I might try to receive it
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[15:33] <Joel_re> hey Upu do you now have the HAB amps in stock?
[15:34] <Reb-SM3ULC> UpuWork: haha, good one :)
[15:34] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: Nice spot of assistance from good old Granddad :) #PanelSaw #ukhas http://t.co/92id5XzcYv
[15:37] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: A nice stack of freshly cut foam. Now to get out the router... #Box #ukhas http://t.co/x6QDQJcxFU
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[15:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> Humm don't think I will hear that UpuWork from down here too much soggy chalk in the way :-(
[15:48] <UpuWork> Hi Joel_re yes
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[15:57] <Lunar_LanderT> nice one UpuWork :)
[15:57] <Lunar_LanderT> hope it works
[15:57] <Lunar_LanderT> see you later
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[16:09] <Laurenceb> http://i.imgur.com/PCgwihA.jpg
[16:10] <number10> must be eating the cables
[16:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> UpuWork, Which THOR code will you be using 4-22 ?
[16:15] <UpuWork> 16
[16:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Right OK
[16:15] <UpuWork> subject to lack of cloud cover
[16:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Are you using RSID ?
[16:15] <UpuWork> no
[16:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> Shame
[16:15] <UpuWork> continous
[16:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> OK shouldn't be too hard to find if i gets high enough for me to hear then!
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[16:16] <UpuWork> TCXO so it will be bang on frequency
[16:16] <UpuWork> 434.498
[16:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Tuned and running already ...
[16:17] <UpuWork> and insulated with mylar, foil and foam
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[16:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Yup saw the picture looks good
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[16:18] <UpuWork> recycled kitkat packaging :)
[16:18] <Geoff-G8DHE> Lets hope it doesn't have a Break then!
[16:22] <x-f> :)
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[16:33] <fsphil> thor16, slow down there UpuWork
[16:34] <fsphil> Laurenceb: computer mouse?
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[16:51] <UpuWork> ping Joel_re
[16:51] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: Almost the finished product! Just need to secure the electronics. Very pleased with my design :D #ukhas http://t.co/0MybpnMdXc
[16:51] <UpuWork> if you want a Habamp order it today as the prices are going up slightly over the weekend
[16:52] <UpuWork> sorry the SAW filters went up
[16:52] <UpuWork> In other news released a 2Meter version
[16:52] <UpuWork> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=72_73
[16:52] <UpuWork> and working on a Sonde amp
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[17:13] <ibanezmatt13_> Does anybody know if Steve Randall has Twitter?
[17:14] <ibanezmatt13_> Twitter suggests not, probably not :)
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[18:17] <YO9ICT> Anyone knows how reliable the efficiency vs input voltage characteristics of TPS61201 are ?
[18:19] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[18:31] <jcoxon> evening all
[18:31] <cm13g09> e'nin jcoxon
[18:33] <qyx_> evening
[18:36] <number10> evening
[18:37] <eroomde> evening
[18:37] <arko> evening
[18:37] <fsphil> yea that one
[18:38] <eroomde> you broke the chain
[18:39] <fsphil> that's worse than stepping on the cracks on a pavement
[18:42] <eroomde> yes
[18:42] <eroomde> it's bad and you should feel bad
[18:47] <bertrik> evening
[18:48] <daveake> evening
[18:50] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: Aside from balloons, check out the awesome front panel for NORB's rocket launcher! #ukhas :D http://t.co/5wcqjgLvov
[18:50] <fsphil> hah
[18:50] <daveake> doh
[18:51] <fsphil> wait, rocket launcher?
[18:51] <eroomde> matt is now into rockets
[18:51] <eroomde> .... I had nothing to do with it
[18:51] <fsphil> a likely story
[18:51] <eroomde> and it may or may not be nothing to do with him coming to visit our rocket site at westcott a few months ago
[18:52] <daveake> so nothing to do with you at all :p
[18:52] <eroomde> no
[18:52] <eroomde> nothing
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[18:58] <jcoxon> i'd suspect eroomde just for the fact that he has made a front panel
[18:58] <jcoxon> front panels are eroomde's crack
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[19:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> UpuWork: NSA-launching?
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[19:14] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:19] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[19:24] <DL1SGP2> nabend Kevin
[19:24] <Upu> probably not launching, its low cloud, raining and windy
[19:24] <DL1SGP2> Are you in the UK Upu? :)
[19:25] <Upu> might be
[19:25] <DL1SGP2> WX conditions would match that assumption
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[19:27] <DL1SGP2> Goo evening Leo
[19:27] <arko> ew
[19:30] <LeoBodnar> evening !
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[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> I saw something really funny in the film "Micro Men", when the Acorn Computers people supposedly study a circuit diagram for a new computer in 1984, I saw a USB marking on the diagram
[19:33] <Lunar_Lander> now, look at this
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> http://s.gullipics.com/image/j/8/l/5yv8tp-k2oo15-x124/vlcsnap2014011008h01m09s68.png
[19:34] <Lunar_Lander> look at the left, at the bottom edge of the plan
[19:36] <DL1SGP2> it even has 5V
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[19:36] <LeoBodnar> OLIMEX, LTD lol
[19:36] <Lunar_Lander> xD yeah and "Copyrighted 2005"
[19:37] <LeoBodnar> One of their NTX LPC devboards
[19:38] <LeoBodnar> is "new computer" supposed to be a Macintosh?
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[19:40] <LeoBodnar> They should have printed this instead http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Macintosh_Prototypes.txt&sortOrder=Sort+by+Date&topic=Hardware+Design
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[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> LeoBodnar, no the Acorn Electron I think
[19:47] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[19:48] <LeoBodnar> Is there a way of getting tabulated PRNs 1-32 rather than calculating them through shift registers?
[19:53] <bertrik> I think I have that board, it's the Olimex LPC2148 dev board
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> yea https://www.olimex.com/Products/ARM/NXP/LPC-H2148/resources/LPC-H2148-sch.gif
[19:56] <Lunar_Lander> only some numbers are different, the caps on the quartz for example are C14 and C15, in the movie C27 and 28
[19:57] <bertrik> they fixed some stuff in a later revision, like better decoupling of the sd card power supply
[19:58] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[20:15] <gurgalof> Upu: are you sending a balloon today?
[20:15] <Lunar_Lander> he said WX is too poor for launching :(
[20:16] <gurgalof> ah
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[20:47] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: that olimex thing in micro men might have been an intentional easter egg, given that it's an ARM board. There's another scene where they're in an office and the wikipedia description of the ARM architecture is written up on the whiteboard
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[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> ah cool, thanks for the info :)
[20:48] <Lunar_Lander> I didn't know that the whiteboard is just from Wikipedia :)
[20:49] <mikestir> yeah I recognised it as ARM at the time, but I think I subsequently noticed that it was just cribbed from wiki
[20:49] <SiC> it could have been that the acorn schematic is copyrighted or something
[20:49] <SiC> where as that olimex is open-source
[20:49] <SiC> maybe
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[20:49] <mikestir> you can't copyright a hardware design
[20:50] <mikestir> so they could have avoided that by redrawing the schematic
[20:50] <SiC> the drawing will be copyrighted
[20:50] <SiC> in the uk everything that you produce is automatically copyrighted
[20:51] <SiC> (unlike the us where you have to register stuff as copyrighted)
[20:52] <mikestir> but it doesn't apply to the circuit - that would have to be patented. A specific board layout could be copyrighted, but as I understand it if you re-do the layout but keep the circuit the same then it's fair game
[20:52] <mikestir> it's the main reason given for why open source hardware should choose a specialist license rather than something like creative commons sharealike, or the gpl
[20:53] <SiC> someone would have drawn the schematic, thus whoever drew it (or the company if a employee of that did it) would own the copyright
[20:53] <mikestir> yes - of the schematic
[20:53] <SiC> exactly, which is showed on film
[20:54] <mikestir> not of the knowledge of how the components are to be connected together
[20:54] <SiC> I suspect the team that worked on micro men didn't have a clue on how to draw schematic
[20:54] <SiC> I'm talking about why it was in the program
[20:54] <SiC> the olimex schematic
[20:54] <SiC> well a possible reason why
[20:54] <mikestir> I'm sure you're right - but it's quite likely their choice of copyright free schematic was not an accident
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[21:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> oh gosh http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1195788/Beauty-boffin-Why-young-lapdancer-finally-decided-wed-millionaire-Sir-Clive-Sinclair.html
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[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> SiC, yea I mean I saw that they had a computer enthusiast taking a cameo role in the Acorn Labs
[21:01] <SiC> ah
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> and he actually seems to have built that prototype BBC Micro they rush to build in one week
[21:01] <SiC> lol
[21:01] <SiC> lucky sinclar
[21:01] <SiC> I never did watch micromen
[21:01] <Lunar_Lander> ah
[21:01] <SiC> I recoreded it, but accidentally deleted it
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBxV6-zamM xD
[21:02] <SiC> but yea lets face it
[21:02] <SiC> he's not going to be running off with anyone else :p
[21:02] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:02] <SiC> she probably just wants someone reliable
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> the text claims his IQ is 159
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[21:05] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: NORB's first flight @daveake suspected I left the lens cover on, I suspect silicone was the issue ;) #ukhas #oops http://t.co/a8RUXcrwmc
[21:05] <SiC> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2537034/Father-two-takes-16-year-battle-PC-World-Supreme-Court-250-000-row-laptop.html
[21:05] <SiC> lol
[21:07] <mikestir> Lunar_Lander: http://www.mike-stirling.com/files/vlcsnap-2014-01-10-21h03m50s6.jpg
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> yeah I looked that up a minute ago
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> even the order of points is the same compared to wikipedia
[21:10] <Lunar_Lander> and Point 4 is an exact copy
[21:11] <Lunar_Lander> xD
[21:16] <mikestir> the BBC micro has a very nice architecture
[21:16] <mikestir> it's way more advanced then the other 8 bits of the time
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
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[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> we had a Acorn A3010 btw
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> we still have it with the original monitor
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> and a Star LC-240C Printer
[21:18] <mikestir> nice. I had a spectrum, then an amiga
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> cool
[21:18] <Lunar_Lander> xD the scene in the shop
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> "What can you do with it?"
[21:19] <Lunar_Lander> "Um, well yeah you can press this button here, and then this one, no sorry, that one, and, um, as you see, the border switches to green. Yeah, switches to green"
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[21:21] <mikestir> I still have my amiga 1200 - should see if it still works
[21:31] <Lunar_Lander> cool
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[21:50] <rcaron> arko: when you flying again?
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[21:52] Nick change: BitEvil -> SpeedEvil
[21:53] <arko> probably in a few weeks
[21:53] <arko> you are from ucla right?
[21:53] <arko> sorry, i have a hard time remember handles
[21:53] <rcaron> yes, just curious
[21:53] <arko> nice
[21:54] <arko> i think i have your email and W6----
[21:54] <arko> i forgot already
[21:54] <arko> >_<
[21:54] <arko> im a terrible ham
[21:54] <rcaron> W6YRA@ucla.edu will get to me
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[21:54] <arko> yes!
[21:55] <arko> ok good
[21:55] <arko> i know i have you in my gmail contacts
[21:55] <arko> and i could always look at the raw packets to find the callsign from the last launch
[21:55] <arko> rcaron: the next one is close to a cubesat design
[21:55] <arko> batteries, solar, camera, radio
[21:55] <arko> etc
[21:56] <arko> should be sending back live pictures and position
[21:56] <arko> a lot more fun :)
[21:56] <rcaron> definitely. moving up to 9600 packet or something?
[21:57] <arko> think about it
[21:57] <arko> might actually end up on 1200baud
[21:57] <arko> i want to try ax.25 but the first step is rtty
[21:58] <arko> plus the hardware is stackable/interchangeable
[21:59] <arko> the pcbs are done but here is the concept cad from a few months ago http://i.imgur.com/57tLmQG.png
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[22:03] <rcaron> cool. images over rtty must be pretty slow though
[22:04] <arko> very
[22:05] <arko> ax.25 should be efficient and quick
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[22:06] <Babs> arko - soon you won't be able to use your reddit solitary california nearspace screenshot
[22:07] <arko> haha
[22:07] <arko> Babs: rcaron is from UCLA
[22:07] <arko> which is in an excellent radio spot for LA
[22:08] <Babs> that's awesome. it was going to get expensive to get married and come out to see you every year
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[22:09] <rcaron> i'm definitely missing some context
[22:09] <arko> Babs hahaha
[22:09] <Babs> post the picture arko
[22:09] <arko> brb finding
[22:10] <Babs> hey rcaron - arko was feeling a bit lonely one day because all of the habbers are over in the UK
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[22:10] <Babs> or they were, now they are everywhere
[22:10] <Babs> it is like the film Contagion only replace the virus with hab nerds
[22:10] <rcaron> but yes, we've been pretty happy with our coverage so far. having a hard time finding 9600 stations with good geometry though
[22:10] <rcaron> lol, i get it now
[22:10] <Babs> arko, are you building this http://i.imgur.com/57tLmQG.png
[22:10] <arko> rcaron: http://i.imgur.com/M8xFe7C.jpg
[22:11] <arko> Babs yes
[22:11] <arko> thats a cad from a few months back
[22:11] <arko> i finished the design and ordered the pcbs last night
[22:11] <Lunar_Lander> good night!
[22:11] <Babs> ok, i have something interesting to show you
[22:11] <Babs> 2 minutes
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[22:12] <arko> what amazes me about that screenshot is the fact that now days that map is full of towers everywhere
[22:12] <arko> in eu
[22:12] <arko> like constantly
[22:12] <arko> community is growing :)
[22:15] <jcoxon> indeed it is
[22:15] <Babs> arko
[22:15] <Babs> http://imgur.com/edit
[22:16] <arko> ?
[22:16] <Babs> ermmm. thats not going to work is it.
[22:16] <arko> hmm i dont think so as the variables are stored in your session
[22:16] <Babs> highaltitude is just a place where i effectively periodically go to humiliate myself in front of a couple of hundred people i have never met
[22:16] <Babs> 2 more minutes
[22:16] <arko> hahaha
[22:17] <Babs> http://imgur.com/4PyCu6F&aJmIGzM
[22:17] <Babs> so arko, check out the top bit
[22:18] <Babs> its where all the electronics are going to be
[22:18] <arko> mother of god
[22:18] <Babs> its also the bit that i haven't designed yet (hence why the top of the box floats in space)
[22:18] <arko> cf structure?
[22:19] <arko> i hope to see you at ukhas 2014 doing this http://vimeo.com/63297368
[22:21] <Babs> arko - let me spell it out for you more clearly
[22:21] <Babs> http://imgur.com/DFFLr2f
[22:21] <arko> hahaha
[22:21] <arko> easy peasy
[22:21] <eroomde> yoyo
[22:21] <arko> shouldn't be difficult, few motor controllers gyros/acc and you'll be flying
[22:22] <arko> ahoy mr ed
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[22:24] <Babs> did you mention motors arko? http://imgur.com/6w4QyPl
[22:25] <eroomde> Babs, i have just made brushless controller
[22:25] <eroomde> lots of whizzbangs for super-precise control
[22:26] <eroomde> https://www.dropbox.com/sc/xn73xg7zmd4x6q6/CuAzXm34OC
[22:26] <Babs> that looks like a fountain pen?
[22:26] <Babs> oh, the bottom of the photo. got it.
[22:26] <Babs> I'm here all week folks
[22:26] <SiC> do you charge a lot?
[22:27] <Babs> for my IT and programming skills, practically nothing
[22:27] <Babs> still no takers though
[22:27] <Babs> eroomde - what is it for
[22:27] <SiC> what about your comedy
[22:27] <Babs> millions SiC
[22:27] <SiC> for stabilised gimbals I'd guess
[22:28] <Babs> I got to that bit
[22:28] <arko> Bab wow
[22:28] <Babs> but engine gimbals or BABSHAB gimbals
[22:28] <SiC> http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/mafi3/678_254397908028840_1412338028_n_zps6f805810.jpg
[22:28] <eroomde> it's general purpose
[22:28] <arko> babs*
[22:28] <SiC> stablising camera
[22:28] <eroomde> not sure what i'd charge for it
[22:28] <eroomde> having me hand-make them is not sensible
[22:28] <eroomde> it's b2b prices not b2hobbyist
[22:29] <Babs> yep SiC, I designed my own to carry a larger camera and also in a temperature controlled package
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[22:29] <Willdude123> Are repeaters like this cross band or separate? seperate
[22:29] <Babs> was it work eroomde or hobby?
[22:29] <eroomde> both, made it cos i want it but using it for a couple of things at work
[22:29] <eroomde> valve control for a rocket engine
[22:29] <arko> i am opening up a store for electronics boards (not habs) just for like flight boards (quadrotor, etc) or led control or something
[22:30] <Willdude123> Are repeaters like this cross band or separate? http://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/FeatureSearch.php?system=KQ2H%20System&state_id=36&type=systems#sthash.XBCPeWgj.gGYE1HUy.dpbs
[22:30] <arko> i could probably crank out a camera stabilizer pretty quickly
[22:30] <Willdude123> I bet a spot on the EBS cost a lot
[22:30] <arko> i've been designing so many little boards for specialfx that i figured i should start selling them
[22:31] <arko> back to the future nuts with deloreans have money
[22:31] <mfa298> Willdude123: you probably need to ask whoever owns it. Although the different locations might suggest it's not a single repeater (not that I know anything about US repeaters)
[22:31] <Babs> arko - I've been able to get servos and steppers working ok int terms of stabilizers
[22:31] <arko> so why not, its not like the own the designs i have
[22:31] <Babs> but this guy's work is so much better than i can do http://www.basecamelectronics.com/
[22:31] <arko> ha
[22:31] <arko> are you going with a carbon fiber frame?
[22:32] <eroomde> the silly thing is it's difficult to compete with people doing stuff on the side
[22:32] <arko> totally
[22:32] <eroomde> when you do stuff like this on the side, costs + 20% is fine
[22:32] <arko> so much overhead with companies
[22:32] <Babs> yes, all the carbon is built and machined out
[22:32] <arko> nice
[22:32] <eroomde> to make aliving you need to do costs +300%
[22:32] <eroomde> unless you're mass producing
[22:32] <arko> heh
[22:32] <Babs> the aluminium bits are being machined as I write
[22:32] <SiC> all this brushless gimbal stablisastion is a load of rubbish
[22:33] <SiC> you need one of these:
[22:33] <SiC> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kngXMCSt6z4
[22:33] <arko> eroomde: i'd be pnp'ing them so build time is very small
[22:33] <arko> once setup
[22:33] <Babs> so I should have it all assembled in a couple of weeks
[22:33] <arko> i got so many people bothering me for gauge controllers that im gonna open a store just to sell them
[22:34] <Babs> I am going to leave the stabilisation to that board, but then program a set of three varying voltages between the GPS and a point on earth to effectively give it a bearing to point at
[22:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> Babs, I've put a partial spherical pano up on the FTP server its not finished yet, still looking for a shot for the Nadir!
[22:34] <Geoff-G8DHE> These are from the GoPro
[22:34] <Babs> i can do bearings and voltages. that much I can do.
[22:34] <Babs> Hey Geoff-G8DHE
[22:35] <Babs> I popped the DSLR panorama up on the sky at night's flickr group yesterday. it got a lot of love.
[22:35] <eroomde> had a play with some pan/tilt IR cameras today
[22:35] <eroomde> they were fun
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[22:35] <eroomde> might put one in the firing bay to look for hydrogen fires
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[22:36] <Geoff-G8DHE> Oh right sounds good, the resolution isn't as good from the GoPro but its nearly Spherical!
[22:37] <arko> Babs: email me your motors spec sheet, i'll see if i can slap something together
[22:38] <Babs> Geoff-G8DHE - what's the file name in the results folder, or is it still processing?
[22:38] <Geoff-G8DHE> \results\partialSphericalPano.jpg
[22:38] <Babs> arko, this is all I have on them http://www.iflight-rc.com/product/iPower-Brushless-Motor-iPower%20GBM-Motor-iPower-GBM4006-150T.html
[22:39] <arko> any microswitches for dead stop?
[22:39] <Geoff-G8DHE> not finished yet need to bring out some more detail and see if i can find a couple of other shots to cover the nadir
[22:39] <Babs> Geoff-G8DHE - nice! you got the burst
[22:40] <Babs> arko, no
[22:40] <arko> yikes
[22:40] <arko> i would totally add some sort of feedback
[22:40] <Babs> I've got it going by messing around and giving it an arming voltage
[22:40] <arko> robots are stupid without feedback :)
[22:40] <Babs> then it goes loony
[22:40] <Babs> this alexmos guy has worked out the whole feedback thing
[22:41] <Babs> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHFLiGFWpvs&list=UUob8i3Dz-H6lmTbY3C5OEDA&feature=c4-overview
[22:41] <Babs> pretty impressive for a guy who appears to work largely from his shower room
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[22:43] <esculca> hi all
[22:43] <esculca> this is esculca here
[22:43] <esculca> from Portugal
[22:43] <esculca> I just submitted my launch for MArch 1st
[22:43] <esculca> can anybody have it approved on spacenear.us?
[22:44] <craag> esculca: Ask in #habhub to get your flight doc approved
[22:44] <esculca> that's another channel?
[22:45] <craag> Yep
[22:46] <Geoff-G8DHE> You will need teh document number as well
[22:47] <Willdude123> Wow. I just learned more Spanish words from duolingo in ten minutes than I have from my teacher in two years
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[22:48] <esculca> another IRC channel?
[22:48] <craag> esculca: Yep, type: /join #habhub
[22:48] <Babs> arko eroomde - The thing I think would be interesting if the stability thing could be solved is whether you could essentially do what this guy has done
[22:48] <Babs> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abuRofUcj2o#t=13
[22:49] <Geoff-G8DHE> yes they look ater the servers and sofware
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[22:49] <craag> esculca: It's the same group of people, but is the channel for discussing the servers
[22:49] <Babs> and take say a photo every second or so, then interpolate, then run at 25 fps
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[22:49] <Babs> and essentially make a smooth timelapse of the thing going up at rocket-like pace
[22:49] <esculca> ok, didn't know thay
[22:49] <Babs> well, rocket ish anyway
[22:49] <arko> optical flow is your friend
[22:49] <esculca> I submitted the lauch on http://habitat.habhub.org/
[22:50] <arko> however, would be 10000% easier to post process that
[22:50] <arko> which now that i think about it, i assume thats what you mean
[22:50] <craag> esculca: Yes, and it should have given you a document id code?
[22:50] <esculca> yes it did
[22:50] <craag> esculca: Now you ask the kind people in #habhub to approve that document (give them the code)
[22:50] <Babs> yes, exactly
[22:51] <craag> Then it'll show up in dl-fldigi
[22:51] <arko> Babs: i love you can clearly see heatsheild separation and power descent at 1:22
[22:51] <Geoff-G8DHE> and when you have landed this is what you see http://www.360cities.net/image/mars-panorama-curiosity-night
[22:52] <Babs> if you take a camera frame, then say divide it up into a 9 grid piece, and make the camera stable enough that the central piece was seen in every single frame
[22:52] <esculca> ok, let's see if i can get in that channel
[22:52] <Babs> and then take that portion of each frame, centre it and then post process it for a smooth but rapid ascent i reckon it would look pretty cool
[22:52] <arko> yeah that would look awesome
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[22:53] <fsphil> lots of cameras, video it from all angles
[22:53] <Babs> arko, the carbon fibre squares in http://imgur.com/DFFLr2f
[22:53] <Babs> are 100mm by 100mm
[22:54] <esculca> craag i am in
[22:54] <esculca> thanks
[22:54] <Babs> I've even designed it with your cubesat thang in mind
[22:54] <arko> haha
[22:54] <craag> esculca: np :) Good luck with your flight!
[22:54] <arko> good thing we both design in metric
[22:54] <esculca> i will need it
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[22:55] <Babs> arko http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCpR_DlIr80
[22:55] <arko> haha
[22:55] <arko> Izzard is awesome
[22:55] <Babs> he is great
[22:56] <_kiwi> Hi guys. Is there an online source of current wind profiles for different places? To automate predicting a balloon trajectory.
[22:56] <fsphil> it's a unique look
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[22:57] <eroomde> _kiwi: not only that, there's even an online tool that will simulate a balloon flying through them for you
[22:57] <eroomde> http://predict.habhub.org/
[22:57] <_kiwi> Sounds great
[22:58] <Babs> fsphil - I actually had an interesting thought.
[22:59] <Babs> if you could get the pointy stability thing working
[23:00] <fsphil> I was thinking about that yesterday, the two mirror thing to focus on a single point
[23:01] <fsphil> it would be neat to try UV photography of the sun
[23:01] <Babs> could you use two of those rock satellite things that dave had to communicate with each other (one on each of two balloons) so one balloon pointed its camera at the other?
[23:02] <Babs> although they only communicate intermittently, that would be fine because after a while, there would be enough separation between the two balloons such that the bearing between the two wouldn't vary much from one minute to the next
[23:02] <fsphil> should be possible but it'll need good control of the mirrors
[23:02] <Babs> what's the two mirror thing?
[23:03] <_kiwi> That's a great tool, predict.habhub.org. Can I access the data sources myself? I might want to do predictions in my own app
[23:03] <fsphil> keep the camera still, aim its view by rotating two mirrors (x and y)
[23:03] <fsphil> the mirrors can be moved much quicker than camera+optics
[23:04] <eroomde> _kiwi: sure it's just the NOAA gfs data
[23:04] <eroomde> courtesy of the us government
[23:04] <fsphil> Babs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of2suN6ijao
[23:04] <eroomde> knock yourself out
[23:05] <_kiwi> eroomde: Thanks, will check it out :)
[23:06] <Babs> fsphil - that's pretty cool
[23:06] <Babs> probably a notch or 3 above my expertise i reckon
[23:07] <Upu> _kiwi they are very large
[23:07] <Upu> 7Gb every 6 hours or something
[23:07] <Babs> fsphil - this is what I was thinking http://m.imgur.com/qZb0qCV
[23:07] <fsphil> I was thinking of something like this as a sun tracker
[23:07] <fsphil> once the sun was in the field of view, it could track it visually
[23:08] <_kiwi> Upu: So predict.habhub does caching or something?
[23:08] <eroomde> it downloads the whole set
[23:08] <eroomde> and mmaps it
[23:08] <Upu> it downloads 28Gb of data a day
[23:08] <Upu> we can do hourly predictions for a site of your choosing
[23:09] <Babs> all (I say all) one has to do is get balloon #1 transmit its GPS location as a string through one of these http://rockblock.rock7mobile.com/
[23:09] <Upu> eig : http://predict.habhub.org/hourly/beckfoot/
[23:09] <eroomde> i guess 28gb is actually pretty small bananas in the scehem of webservers
[23:09] <Upu> well for download not really
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[23:09] <Upu> most webservers upload
[23:09] <eroomde> i could do that in a youtube binge on my phone
[23:09] <Babs> transmit it either automatically, or just manually given the infrequency over when they come in to a second http://rockblock.rock7mobile.com/
[23:09] <Upu> haha not quite :)
[23:09] <fsphil> yea
[23:10] <Babs> on the second balloon with the directional camera, and surely you are done? bingo camera pointed at another balloon all the way up
[23:10] <fsphil> you'd need that info to image another payload
[23:10] <_kiwi> Dang
[23:10] <fsphil> and a fair bit of magnification
[23:10] <Babs> but doable right? Once the camera can be pointed in space then there are some great possibilities
[23:10] <eroomde> _kiwi: you can download bits of it selectively
[23:10] <eroomde> the 7gb is for the entire earth
[23:11] <fsphil> yep. if the camera can be aimed, and knows what the orientation of the payload is, the rest isn't too bad
[23:11] <eroomde> if you just want NZ it'll be much smaller
[23:11] <Upu> yes you can request smaller "windows" of it from NOAA
[23:11] <Babs> if you could reliably weigh both payloads inc. balloons, tape them up with identical amounts of tape, and introduce identical volumes of He to each one
[23:12] <_kiwi> Sounds reasonable
[23:12] <Laurenceb_> how can i do a wildcard for a name containing spaces?
[23:12] <Babs> and launch at the same time, then although they would separate, perhaps they wouldn't too much and of course, up high they could be 10m across anyway
[23:12] <Babs> it would be a neat project
[23:13] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: it must contain spaces or it could contain spaces?
[23:13] <fsphil> good practice for the eclipse flights
[23:13] <Babs> exactly
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: so i have a bunch of files like
[23:13] <Babs> actually, I'm over complicating it
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> B10-qmc-nch 09-01-13 1036 masimo.out
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> B10-qmc-nch 09-01-14 1036 masimo.out
[23:13] <Laurenceb_> is what i want
[23:13] <fsphil> I've got some mirrors here but the servos I have are too jittery
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> someone forgot it was 2014 now
[23:14] <Babs> just read the telemetry off spacenear for balloon one and upload it manually to a rockblock on the second balloon
[23:14] <Babs> i was totally over complicating it
[23:14] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: that doesn't help at all
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> but filename contains spaces
[23:14] <fsphil> balloon, ground, space, balloon ? :)
[23:14] <eroomde> what do you want vs what do you not want?
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> i have the top line
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> i want the bottom line
[23:14] <eroomde> tail -1
[23:14] <Laurenceb_> nononon
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> they are file names
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> i want to rename them
[23:15] <Babs> exactly. why transmit through a rockblock from the first balloon when you can get it instantaneously through the network we've been using for age
[23:15] <Babs> *ages
[23:15] <eroomde> k guesses because you're not specifying your [roblem in any kind of closed way
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> sorry
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> its late and im pissed
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> some n00b forgot the year
[23:15] <Laurenceb_> now i have a bazzillion misnamed files
[23:16] <eroomde> so what's an example of 'before' and what's an example of 'after'
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> before, i have a shitton of files of the form " B10-qmc-nch 09-01-13*"
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> after "B10-qmc-nch 09-01-14*"
[23:17] <Babs> fsphil - how many bytes in a typical telemetry string?
[23:17] <Babs> ish
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> *with names of the form
[23:17] <Laurenceb_> forget the leading space
[23:18] <eroomde> so you want to replace '-13' with '-14'?
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> yes
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> id rather have a longer match
[23:18] <fsphil> Babs: about 25/30
[23:18] <Laurenceb_> dont want to rename anything else
[23:19] <fsphil> actually 50
[23:19] <Babs> ok, so based on this http://www.iridium.com/products/IridiumSBD.aspx?productCategoryID=9 you could send the location of the first balloon up to the second balloon in 15 seconds (10 seconds down from the first balloon, 5 seconds back up)
[23:19] <arko> did someone from the uk here just try to call me? i have a missed call from an international number :/
[23:20] <eroomde> no
[23:20] <_kiwi> Upu, eroomde, thanks for the help. Those looks like quite big downloads and it would take some time to write the algorithm. I'll start with trying predict.habhub.
[23:20] <fsphil> 5 seconds isn't too bad
[23:21] <Babs> once separation is a few hundred metres, unless they are travelling perpendicular to each other you should be able to keep it in frame
[23:21] <fsphil> you could also transmit the direction it's travelling, it would have a better change of catching it in the frame
[23:21] <Babs> oooo. nice.
[23:21] <fsphil> dead reckoning
[23:21] <fsphil> lovely term
[23:21] <Babs> like the dude who set the remote camera to get Eagle going back up off the moon
[23:22] <Babs> he had to move it 3 seconds before it actually took off to get it in the frame
[23:22] <Babs> that would be a bad one to get wrong. "Neil, can you take it down again, I didn't get it first time around"
[23:22] <fsphil> hah
[23:22] <fsphil> I wonder how long that camera transmitted for
[23:23] <fsphil> and if they where still able to get images from the surface
[23:23] <arko> http://moviecode.tumblr.com/
[23:24] <arko> glad this is being updated
[23:25] <Babs> don't know fsphil. it was pretty cool. right, having not completed the first project, I now have 3 others to solve. All before June 8 2014. This could be tough.
[23:25] <Babs> laters everyone.
[23:25] <arko> laters
[23:25] <fsphil> lol
[23:25] <fsphil> later
[23:26] <fsphil> being the nerdy kid that I was I spotted the 6502 code in Terminator straight away
[23:26] <arko> haha
[23:27] <arko> my friend and i have always tried to play guess the language when "movie os" comes on screen
[23:27] <arko> glad this is a thing now
[23:27] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: on some linuxes there is preinstalled a tool called rename
[23:27] <eroomde> so you can do
[23:27] <Laurenceb_> aha i have it
[23:28] <fsphil> nmap was used in one of the alleged matrix sequals
[23:28] <eroomde> rename s/.-13\ /.-14\ / *
[23:28] <eroomde> or something like that
[23:29] <fsphil> this feels like something python could do well
[23:29] <eroomde> sed really
[23:30] <eroomde> sed 's//mv <subgroupjazz>'
[23:30] <eroomde> add the regexes as appropriate
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[23:31] <Laurenceb_> got it thanks
[23:31] <Laurenceb_> fixed
[23:36] <eroomde> sed 's/\(.\+\)-13\ \(.\+\)/mv & \1-14\ \2/'
[23:36] <eroomde> i think that would achieve the same thing
[23:36] <eroomde> for systems that don't have rename
[23:38] <eroomde> maybe not
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[23:42] <Laurenceb_> ok cool
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> ok, statistics questions next :P
[23:42] <Laurenceb_> if i have a set of points in 5d vector space
[23:43] <Laurenceb_> or rather - a set of 5dimentional vectors for each time point
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> thats an easier way to put it
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> i cant spell
[23:44] <eroomde> i get it
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> and i want to fit two lines to this
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> each one is a ramp with time of a predefined 5 vector
[23:44] <Laurenceb_> so obviously doing the fit is trivial
[23:45] <Laurenceb_> but how can i define the error on the fit gradient?
[23:45] <Laurenceb_> im struggling for some sane statistics to use
[23:45] <Laurenceb_> by two lines i mean
[23:45] <eroomde> usually that's very much a question of the model/your judgement
[23:45] <eroomde> euclidean, mse, gaussian, whatever
[23:45] <Laurenceb_> each 5vector is expressed as a combination of the two conponent 5 vectors
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> yeah, i got as far as deriving it for guassian
[23:46] <eroomde> do you know what the basis vectors should be already?
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> but thats not very accurate, the data is far from guassian
[23:46] <Laurenceb_> its for spectroscopy
[23:47] <Laurenceb_> i know the two absorbers
[23:47] <Laurenceb_> i also know they ramp up linearly with time
[23:47] <Laurenceb_> but i dont know the ramp rate of either
[23:47] <eroomde> dunno i'm afraid
[23:47] <eroomde> hard for me t visualise especially at this timea night
[23:47] <Laurenceb_> my main problem iis probably hidden nonlinearity and mismodelling of the optics
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> and 1/f noise from "other weird chemical stuff happening in the background"
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[23:48] <Laurenceb_> ive got guassian working, and the error results arent totally mad, but clearly are too small
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> so i low pass filter then model as unknown amounts of time variant AGWN
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[23:50] <Laurenceb_> i guess one solution is brute force goodness of fit of a range of gradients
[23:50] <Laurenceb_> then look at the FWHM of the goodness of fit function
[23:51] seventeen (021bff8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.2.27.255.141) left irc: Quit: Page closed
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> but it does have an air of "how do i statistics" to it :-/
[00:00] --- Sat Jan 11 2014