highaltitude.log.20140108

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[00:49] <Willdude123> A sales guy at ml and s said that Diamond was better than watson in terms of build quality
[00:49] <Willdude123> not sure if thats true
[00:52] <mfa298> well a sales person in theory would have a reasonable idea of that if they know what they're doing
[00:52] <Willdude123> Yeah
[00:52] <mfa298> although why am I still up
[00:52] <Willdude123> mfa298: because YOLO swag
[00:52] <craag> mfa298: my thought also right now
[00:53] <mfa298> for that matter why are you still awake ?
[00:53] Action: mfa298 must stop trying to break things at past midnight!
[00:53] <qyx_> i am going to abuse your awakeness
[00:53] <qyx_> how big groundplane is ideal for 1/4 wave monopole?
[00:54] <Darkside> hah
[00:54] <Darkside> oh wait, for 70cm?
[00:54] <craag> qyx_: Generally 1/4 wave radius.
[00:54] <LeoBodnar> infinite
[00:54] <Darkside> haha yes
[00:54] <qyx_> actually short monopole, it is helical
[00:54] <mfa298> most people go for similar or slightly larger than the driven element
[00:54] <craag> but inifinite is ideal :)
[00:54] <LeoBodnar> you've asked for "ideal"
[00:54] <craag> infinite even
[00:54] <Darkside> 4 radials works well enough :P
[00:54] <qyx_> ah, practical, not ideal :)
[00:54] <Willdude123> I am still awake because I can be
[00:55] <craag> practical 4x1/4 wave radials is a good bet I think
[00:55] <qyx_> http://www.ebay.com/itm/161148643618
[00:55] <qyx_> for this :X
[00:55] <craag> Although does depend what freq
[00:55] <mfa298> metal hulled boat on the sea is probably as close to ideal as is practical
[00:55] <Darkside> qyx_: eeew
[00:55] <Darkside> why
[00:55] <craag> as can be inpractical at LF
[00:55] <craag> oh god those
[00:56] <Darkside> qyx_: y u no 1/4 wave wire
[00:56] <craag> They are designed to be a load more than an antenna
[00:56] <qyx_> is it better do to 1/4 wave wire?
[00:56] <Darkside> yes!
[00:56] <craag> yes
[00:56] <Darkside> god yes
[00:56] <mfa298> Yes
[00:56] <qyx_> pfff
[00:56] <Darkside> confirmation by acclamation!
[00:56] <Willdude123> Turns out the college Im going to both my dad and granddad have attended before (my family is from soton)
[00:57] <qyx_> ok, i will try both :P
[00:57] <Darkside> >_>
[00:57] <Darkside> don't say we didn't warn you if you have signal problems with th ehelical
[00:57] <qyx_> but i am asking because the size of the pcb is quite small
[00:57] <Darkside> yes, the antenna will be big in comparison
[00:57] <Darkside> this is ok, as the antnena can be quite light
[00:58] <mfa298> you could probably approximate those helical antennas with a 50R resistor fairly well.
[00:58] <craag> If size is really a constraint then fair enough. But if you care at all about range, don't go with the helical.
[00:58] <Darkside> remember, with a HAB, reliability is paramount
[00:58] <Darkside> don't compromise on things that could affect the reliability of your positioning
[00:58] <craag> If it's for a HAB, you should be caring about range. A lot.
[00:58] <qyx_> no, not for hab :)
[00:59] <craag> phew
[00:59] <Darkside> ahh
[00:59] <Darkside> what for then?
[00:59] <qyx_> sensor node :X
[00:59] <Darkside> distances? surroundings?
[00:59] <qyx_> meadow, just grass and trees
[01:00] <ike> qyx_ nrf24l01 are quite cheap
[01:00] <qyx_> around 200-300m
[01:00] <Darkside> distancs?
[01:00] <ike> but can't do 300m
[01:00] <Darkside> qyx_: oh easy then
[01:00] <Darkside> still, its not lik a 1/4 wave is that big
[01:00] <Darkside> i still wouldn't suggst using the helicals
[01:01] <qyx_> ok, i will try 1/4 wire
[01:01] <Darkside> good man
[01:01] <qyx_> and then compare with those ebay things when they arrive
[01:01] <mfa298> if those helicals don't work well enough as they are undoing the end or spreading them out a bit might improve things a bit (might affect their response a bit but that's assuming they've actually been designed for a decent response)
[01:02] <Darkside> at that point you're just gtting closer to a 1/4 wave anyway
[01:02] <Darkside> so you may as well have used a 1/4 wav to start with
[01:02] <Willdude123> So when/if I can afford it I might get one of these aerials
[01:02] <Willdude123> http://i.imgur.com/8B12y3l.jpg
[01:02] <mfa298> well yes...
[01:03] <Willdude123> oops http://www.sinotel.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=139
[01:03] <Darkside> hahaha
[01:03] <Willdude123> Kim Jong Il and an aerial are very different
[01:03] <Darkside> Willdude123: i use something similar on my handhld
[01:04] <Darkside> works quit wll
[01:04] <Darkside> thy are also good for 2m APRS HAB payloads
[01:04] <Willdude123> What a short korean dictator?
[01:04] <Darkside> no, a flexibile antenna
[01:04] <Darkside> :P
[01:04] <Willdude123> I agrre
[01:04] <Willdude123> lil
[01:06] <mfa298> well I reckon it's now well past my bedtime so gn all
[01:07] <qyx_> gn
[01:07] <qyx_> hm, and if i used acntual ground as a ground plane?
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[01:11] <ike> the higher they are they better they work
[01:11] <ike> and ....
[01:11] <ike> don't forget GND plane wires
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[03:57] <heath_kid> any ops here? did "heathkid" get un-banned" again? It came back...
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[04:29] <SpeedEvil> I could unban you.
[04:29] <SpeedEvil> on ##electronics.
[04:29] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[04:57] <heath_kid> can you help me pass the word if I'm not around and an op shows up???
[04:57] <heath_kid> I'd appreciate it
[05:02] <SpeedEvil> sure.
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[08:38] <Lunar_LanderT> morning
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[08:44] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb ring-ring
[08:44] <LeoBodnar> morning!
[08:46] <fsphil> I need a job that starts at 10:00, early mornings suck
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[09:41] <gonzo_> most peopl's jobs start at 10, after a couple of coffees. Even if they get in at 8
[09:42] <eroomde> correct
[09:42] <eroomde> 8 just means an extra hour of noise picking and personal projects
[09:44] <eroomde> i quite enjoyed the couple of years i spent in a research group at the end of university. you'd get in for about 11am coffee, talk about work and stuff until about lunchtime, spend a while over lunch (still talking about work and stuff), do an hour or so's work until about 2.30, have a coffee and talk for an hour or so, do another hour or two's work, then go home
[09:44] <eroomde> the chatting was usually the most productive bit
[09:44] <fsphil> hah
[09:45] <eroomde> it worked fairly well though, when you're just trying to think about a hard problem rather than making widgets, you're always thinking about it, and time spent infront of a computer screen isn't a metric that means much in that context
[09:48] <gonzo_> we maned the canteen, meeting room 4, as after they split project teams into different discipline depts, that was the only way you could meet and get info
[09:48] <gonzo_> named
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[09:51] <LeoBodnar> what's the most calculation-intensive part of getting the fix?
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[09:52] <eroomde> correlation
[09:52] <eroomde> the rest is just geometry
[09:53] <LeoBodnar> so geometry is straightforward?
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[09:53] <LeoBodnar> considering the lack of FP
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[09:56] <Darkside> oh yeah, there was a talk at LCA today on differential GPS stuff
[09:56] <Darkside> and doing it with ublox modules
[09:59] <eroomde> LeoBodnar: yeah
[09:59] <eroomde> i mean, it's just involving a few floats
[09:59] <eroomde> in times of opps/second the nav decoding is a much smaller problem than aquisition and tracking
[10:00] <LeoBodnar> ok thanks
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> I thought about solving slowly varying geometry via either successive approximation or exhaustive search
[10:02] <nats`> hi boyz
[10:03] <nats`> eroomde yesterday evening it was a Chateau Margaux ;)
[10:04] <eroomde> there is an iterative step in the nav solution
[10:04] <eroomde> to work out where you are
[10:04] <eroomde> but you can just use a newton method and it's like 3, maybe 4 steps if you're starting from having no idea where you are
[10:04] <eroomde> and if you're pretty close to where you were last, you could probably even do it in one step
[10:04] <eroomde> maybe
[10:08] <LeoBodnar> do floats exponent vary a lot? If not then it can all be reduced to fixed decimal point
[10:14] <eroomde> yes can do with iterative solvers
[10:14] <eroomde> one of those times when C is an advantage :)
[10:15] <LeoBodnar> hehe
[10:15] <eroomde> 3.4/4e9 - the end
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[10:39] <LeoBodnar> f* Eagle
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> for some reason all the libraries got deselected and I have about 2000 of them
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> is there any way of enable them en masse rather then keep clicking with a mouse on each grey -> green dot?
[10:40] <LeoBodnar> *enabling
[10:41] <nats`> yep editing project file by hand
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[10:42] <LeoBodnar> it's ver 5.11 so all files are binary
[10:43] <LeoBodnar> I hope Cadsoft will die painful embarrassing death
[10:44] <nats`> ouch I don't know in that case
[10:44] <nats`> anyway eagle sucks :p
[10:44] <LeoBodnar> 20 mins and still clicking through "d..."
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[10:59] <adamgreig> LeoBodnar: http://www.kicad-pcb.org/
[11:00] <nats`> adamgreig did you see they released the alpha with trace shoving
[11:00] <nats`> the CERN is doing a great job on this
[11:00] <adamgreig> yea! big fan of cern's work
[11:00] <adamgreig> can't wait to see what else they do
[11:01] <nats`> http://www.ohwr.org/projects/cern-kicad/wiki/WorkPackages
[11:01] <nats`> here is the list :)
[11:01] <nats`> of planned and in progress function
[11:03] <adamgreig> Study ergonomics of various commercial/proprietary PCB applications (when in doubt about any particular UI solution, check how it has been done in a certain proprietary app that is very popular among OSHW folks and do exactly opposite).
[11:03] <adamgreig> hehehe
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[11:06] <nats`> lol you saw the same :)
[11:06] <nats`> but as I already said to be fair I work with Mentor graphics at work and sometimes they do worst than eagle
[11:06] <nats`> but we talk about Xk$ annual license
[11:07] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[11:15] <fsphil> just noticed, opportunity will have been working on mars for 10 years on the 25th
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[11:28] <gonzo_> not bad, considering it was only planned for a few months
[11:30] <fsphil> the wind keeps clearing the solar panels
[11:30] <fsphil> it went from generating 270 Wh to 371 Wh on new years
[11:31] <fsphil> assuming that's per Wh/day
[11:42] <eroomde> based on lastnight's SGL, it looks like the sattelite rocket engine will be on stargazing live tonight
[11:43] <fsphil> did spot a rocket being fired near the end
[11:44] <Babs_> was it me or did Carolyn Porco have utter disdain for the guy sitting next to her
[11:44] <fsphil> haha
[11:45] <Babs_> Was it just me fsphil or did you see the same? he kept on confidently talking about orange rain only for her to give him a withering look and correct him
[11:45] <fsphil> yep
[11:45] <fsphil> she muttered something too I didn't quite catch after that
[11:46] <Babs_> ooo. nice. would like to see that.
[11:46] <eroomde> where was the 20s segment roughly?
[11:46] <fsphil> it was on the back to earth program
[11:46] <fsphil> when they where talking about rain on other worlds
[11:46] <Babs_> interesting that cassini only has a 1 megapixel camera
[11:46] <eroomde> is that the one on afterwards?
[11:47] <fsphil> yea
[11:47] <Babs_> right at the start of the back to earth bit eroomde
[11:47] <ibanezmatt13_> ah missed that eroomde
[11:47] <fsphil> chris lintott mentions orange rain on titan
[11:47] <Babs_> she did that thing where girls don't make eye contact again the whole night
[11:47] <Babs_> we've all been there
[11:47] <eroomde> where is thew back-to-earth bit roughly?
[11:47] <fsphil> lol
[11:47] <eroomde> chris lintot has got fat
[11:47] <Babs_> it was on at 9pm after SGL
[11:48] <eroomde> ah right
[11:48] <eroomde> with u
[11:48] <Babs_> they do this weird thing where they say goodbye, and then hello again on the same channel
[11:48] <eroomde> after cocktails?
[11:48] <fsphil> yea
[11:48] <eroomde> ok will leave it runniung in the corner
[11:50] <Babs_> Carolyn Porco left him ruining in the corner too
[11:51] <fsphil> the MER rover cameras are 1024x1024 I think
[11:52] <fsphil> it's easy to forget that many of these things are so old
[11:52] <fsphil> because they operate for decades or take that long just getting to their target
[11:53] <fsphil> cassini's hardware was out of date before it even reached orbit
[11:53] <eroomde> and it takes ages to space-rate them
[11:54] <eroomde> and noise resistence and dynamic range is more important that pixel count
[11:54] <eroomde> and you have limited bandwidth back
[11:54] <fsphil> its computer is probably isn't much either, spec wise
[11:54] <eroomde> i haven't come across this segment yet
[11:54] <Babs_> and if you focus very narrowly you get to the same point anyway
[11:54] <fsphil> -is
[11:54] <Babs_> 5min30 in - Dara is hilarious
[11:55] <eroomde> the little girl?
[11:56] <eroomde> so the segment is at the beginning of this 30 min after-programme?
[11:56] <Babs_> No, the fat Irish comedian
[11:57] <Babs_> It's not quite, I am watching it again. will let you know.
[11:57] <nats`> what are you watching ?
[11:57] <fsphil> stargazing live
[11:59] <MLow> hahaha, i bought this awesome phone mount for the car, the suction cup can stick to prettu much anything
[11:59] <MLow> i have it on my wall right next to my mounted monitor, very rough spackled wall
[11:59] <eroomde> i had a laptop-mount suction-cup
[11:59] <fsphil> I've one for the eeepc, but I'd love one for the thinkpad
[11:59] <eroomde> yeah, was from an eee
[12:00] <eroomde> one of rob's suggestions
[12:00] <eroomde> god rest his soul
[12:00] <Babs_> 19 mins in eroomde. and then after 20mins, the dude next to her says
[12:00] <Babs_> "WE'VE DETECTED DIAMONDS RAINING IN OTHER SOLAR SYSTEMS"
[12:00] <Babs_> and she basically says "you mean carbon"
[12:01] <eroomde> the testing footage?
[12:01] <fsphil> they never quite got anywhere with that acid
[12:01] <fsphil> other than dara modelling glasses
[12:02] <eroomde> but the rocket testing footage
[12:02] <eroomde> i'm not really interested in banter between them, i'm trying to design a circuit
[12:03] <eroomde> i just want to see they bit they filmed here
[12:03] <fsphil> it's right at the end
[12:03] <Babs_> but its only a clip of the next episode
[12:03] <eroomde> so it *is* tomorrow
[12:04] <eroomde> rather than last night
[12:04] <eroomde> i mean today
[12:04] <eroomde> rather than last night
[12:04] <MLow> hey i want to thank whoever linked that youtube video on the space shuttle
[12:04] <fsphil> yea
[12:04] <eroomde> right
[12:04] <eroomde> i thought it was actually last night which was counter to my intelligence
[12:04] <fsphil> guess they wanted it with the astronaut stuff
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[12:07] <Babs_> Geoff-G8DHE has stitched together a nice DSLR generated image from BABSHAB for me, plus corrected for overexposure etc. looks great, thanks Geoff http://www.flickr.com/photos/91049302@N00/11834929443/in/set-72157632733154985/
[12:08] <eroomde> Babs_: time for a multi-monitor setup
[12:08] <eroomde> and have that as the wallpaper
[12:09] <eroomde> as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-monitor
[12:09] <Babs_> will get one on order for my new job
[12:09] <eroomde> where someone noticed that the wallpaper on the example setup was a CUSF photo
[12:09] <eroomde> you've got a new job?
[12:18] <mfa298> obviously a quad monitor setup from someone that doesn't know better - *two* keyboards!
[12:19] <mattbrejza> mfa298: one for each hand
[12:19] <mfa298> also must by an arty type person, keyboard and mouse look like they should be on a mac but they're running windows
[12:20] <adamgreig> two keyboards can be handy with that many monitors
[12:20] <adamgreig> stops you having to move one keyboard around so much when your chair is sliding around
[12:21] <adamgreig> otherwise you'd either be constantly trying to see what was on a far away monitor or constantly picking up and moving your keyboard?
[12:23] <mfa298> probably depends on how you're operating. When I've had a setup like that (Windows + Linux) I've generally worked on the centre two screens then the outside ones are more stuff you glance at.
[12:23] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: ping
[12:23] <Laurenceb> i need a new job too
[12:23] <Laurenceb> this one sucks
[12:25] <gonzo_> employers have this underhanded way of making you stay with them. A sort of bribery.
[12:26] <nats`> gonzo_ we call that money :D
[12:26] <Laurenceb> hah
[12:27] <gonzo_> yep that's it.
[12:27] <adamgreig> mfa298: yea I guess so. when I've had three monitors (the dreamy days) it was much like that
[12:27] <adamgreig> but I guess with audio editing it's a lot more about having something more akin to a big mixing desk
[12:28] <Laurenceb> my current job title seems to be "trying to design stuff using polymers and adhesives for people who dont know what a polymer or adhesive is"
[12:29] <adamgreig> are you still working at the uni?
[12:29] <mfa298> possibly, although I'd have thought a USB control would be more useful for that (something akin to a digital mixing desk). Although that is likely to depend on what you're doing.
[12:29] <Laurenceb> a spin out
[12:29] <Laurenceb> on medical stuff
[12:30] <Laurenceb> supposedly - nothing is ever going to get done like this...
[12:30] <adamgreig> lol
[12:30] <adamgreig> sounds fun
[12:31] <MLow> so far i've just been trying to get the stuff to do a launch
[12:31] <Laurenceb> i havent seen another member of staff since before christmas
[12:31] <MLow> but now im starting to think of the stuff i can do with it, do i want to take pictures, maybe get some cool sensors
[12:31] <gonzo_> the indusrty std seems to be 'we have no specs, the customer does not know whatr he wants/needs, but can you get on and design/write it, as we will be delivering it soon'
[12:31] <Laurenceb> gonzo_: yeah pretty much
[12:32] <x-f> "WATCH: Geomagnetic Storm Category G3 Predicted" - Jan 9-10
[12:32] <x-f> anybody planning a nighttime HAB launch?
[12:32] <Laurenceb> on the positive side, i have a nice heated and empty office to sit in with free internet
[12:32] <gonzo_> tis the same all over. Dilbert is a documentary
[12:33] <Laurenceb> heh
[12:33] <nats`> :D
[12:33] <nats`> I was reading the dilbert concept this morning in WC :D
[12:33] <nats`> maybe it's the season
[12:33] <gonzo_> I read the way of the weasle over xmas
[12:33] <Laurenceb> now if i was to try the local golf club i might have a chance of finding someone...
[12:33] <nats`> many people I know are bored with their jobs
[12:34] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb where did you get 4120s from?
[12:34] <gonzo_> there is a .gov research place this way, there is someone there who writes dilberts for adams. he just redraws them in his hand.
[12:34] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: Makani power :P
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> They seem to be unobtanium
[12:35] <Laurenceb> they are
[12:35] <gonzo_> so some of the characters are actually real people
[12:35] <Laurenceb> i could send you two or so
[12:35] <Laurenceb> but id try 4110, its basically the same
[12:35] <LeoBodnar> "We are happy to announce that Makani Power has been acquired by Google."
[12:36] <Laurenceb> yup
[12:36] <LeoBodnar> Hippies go capitalists.
[12:36] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:36] <gonzo_> natural evolution
[12:36] <Laurenceb> SE4110 can be resampled to 4Msps without much overhead
[12:36] <LeoBodnar> Anyway, I am whipping up a sampler based on 4110 and PIC24
[12:36] <Laurenceb> ok cool
[12:36] <LeoBodnar> Just for lolz
[12:37] <Laurenceb> you could probably do "A-GPS" on PIC24
[12:37] <LeoBodnar> is 4120 a drop in replacement?
[12:37] <Laurenceb> itd just be slow
[12:37] <gonzo_> if a man at 20 is not a liberal, he has no herat. If at 50 he is not a conservative, he has no brain
[12:37] <Laurenceb> i dunno
[12:37] <gonzo_> heart
[12:37] <Laurenceb> try the datasheet :P
[12:37] <Joel_re> anyone launching in the nextweek from cambridge?
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> Churchill never said that apparently
[12:38] <LeoBodnar> But I agree with that
[12:38] <Laurenceb> arg
[12:38] <Laurenceb> where is the non nga datasheet
[12:38] <Laurenceb> *bga
[12:38] <gonzo_> didn't realise it was one of his actually (or claimed as)
[12:38] <Laurenceb> nvm got it
[12:39] <LeoBodnar> resampled as in decimated?
[12:40] <Laurenceb> yes
[12:40] <Laurenceb> ok it looks drop in
[12:40] <Laurenceb> as drop in as possible
[12:41] <jonsowman> amazing
[12:41] <Laurenceb> if the control pins are all gpio and the MAG pin goes to a spi pin that can be used as SS
[12:41] <Laurenceb> on another spi port
[12:41] <Laurenceb> then you could write some firmware to take both parts
[12:42] <Laurenceb> gonzo_: what about anarchists
[12:42] <LeoBodnar> cool
[12:43] <LeoBodnar> most pins on PIC24 are mappable in firmware i.e. most GPIO pins can be matrixed onto hardware SPI
[12:43] <Laurenceb> ok
[12:43] <Laurenceb> dunno how fast FFT is on PIC24
[12:44] <LeoBodnar> Have you used your board to sample anything yet?
[12:44] <Laurenceb> no, only for stm32 dev
[12:44] <Laurenceb> i should do some more work with it...
[12:45] <MLow> what are some interesting payloads that have been sent up? like scientific or otherwise
[12:45] <Laurenceb> MLow: someone launched a sex toy
[12:45] <MLow> space dildo?
[12:45] <Laurenceb> yup
[12:45] <MLow> interesting
[12:45] <Laurenceb> lol
[12:46] <MLow> i kind of meant more OT, but that is odd
[12:46] <MLow> what was the goal?
[12:47] <Laurenceb> attention seeking i guess
[12:47] <MLow> i think they got it
[12:48] <MLow> i really liked the CLOUDY payload and the paper planes launched
[12:50] <eroomde> MLow: there's been atmospheric sampling looking for biological stuff
[12:50] <eroomde> various engineering tests of solar panels and things
[12:50] <MLow> i think i've seen some of the solar panel stuff, but havent seen any conclusive results
[12:50] <eroomde> we tested some parachutes for a mars lander by reacreating martian inflation conditions by dropping something at high altitude
[12:51] <MLow> thats neat
[12:52] <eroomde> i gave a talk about it at the first ukhas conf if you want details
[12:52] <eroomde> it was the most advanced/scary payload i've done, and not somethign i'm in a hurry to repeat
[12:52] <eroomde> i = royal I, as in CUSF
[12:52] <MLow> lol yeah sure id like to give it a read
[12:53] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU6j49eCkF4
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[12:54] <eroomde> but it's at the sort of interesting scale when you can do some quite mechanismy stuff
[12:54] <eroomde> i'd *really* like to one-day do a space telescope
[12:54] <eroomde> hab-telescope
[12:55] <MLow> you mean orbit?
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[12:56] <eroomde> no, just hanging uder a balloon
[12:56] <eroomde> above the atmosphere
[12:56] <eroomde> or at least 99% of the atmosphere
[12:56] <adamgreig> with some kind of mems based stabalisation system? ;)
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[12:56] <adamgreig> but what could you name it
[12:56] <adamgreig> hmm
[12:57] <adamgreig> if only there existed some big space telescope with a name amenable to hab puns
[12:57] <Laurenceb> habbler
[12:58] <eroomde> that sounds like a startup
[12:58] <eroomde> i don't think mems will cut it anymore
[12:58] <eroomde> beyond coarse positioning
[12:58] <eroomde> needs a star tracker
[12:58] <MLow> the habble telescope
[12:58] <eroomde> yes MLow
[12:58] <gonzo_> that woudl be the elephant in the room
[12:58] <MLow> :( i thought it was clever
[12:59] <eroomde> it is but it was clever in 2006 when this was being discussed
[12:59] <eroomde> :p
[13:00] <MLow> lol
[13:00] <eroomde> it's been on the cards for a while, it probably needs someone better at pulling their finger out with their hobbies than me, to do it
[13:00] <eroomde> my Mouser order hasn't arrived today
[13:00] <eroomde> this pisses me off as i can't assemble a pcb
[13:00] <adamgreig> I was thinking of hobble but am disappointed you didn't go for the obvious hab pun at the time :|
[13:00] <eroomde> which I was rather hoping to do
[13:01] <eroomde> well i wanted to go more for the poor-man's space telescope angle
[13:01] <eroomde> habble wouldn't make much punnage-sense outside of this comunity
[13:01] <adamgreig> yes that's how I eventually re-found it
[13:01] <adamgreig> apparently remembered it with a hab in it
[13:03] <eroomde> so is mackay doing anything at all div-F-y in addition to his energy stuff?
[13:03] <adamgreig> not that I'm aware of
[13:04] <adamgreig> sadly
[13:04] <eroomde> yes
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[13:07] <mfa298> bunch of maps and charts for those that like such things http://asheepnomore.net/2013/12/29/40-maps-will-help-make-sense-world/
[13:07] Action: mfa298 wonders if #2 should be the map for ukhas
[13:13] <navrac_work> I was thinking I hope our politicians don't see map#3 - they will see it as a new target...
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[13:34] <LeoBodnar> I see both 16.368 and 16.369 MHz used as reference clock for GPS front ends is there any significance in using particular sampling freq?
[13:37] <eroomde> not particularly
[13:37] <eroomde> it'll likely just change whatever is the IF of your mixed down signal
[13:37] <eroomde> just make sure it's a good tcxo
[13:38] <Babs_> you can get so many good bits of stacking software now the benefits of getting up to HAB altitude to take photos are surely a bit limited now (although I guess you could also stack the hab photos)
[13:39] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[13:40] <adamgreig> how does good stacking software replace high altitude photos?
[13:40] <Babs_> as far as I know, it corrects a lot for atmospheric distortion
[13:40] <adamgreig> oh, for telescopes
[13:40] <adamgreig> right yea
[13:40] <Babs_> yes, sorry
[13:40] <adamgreig> depends what wavelengths I think
[13:41] <adamgreig> still a lot of interest in space telescopes
[13:41] <adamgreig> but adaptive optics and signal processing are getting crazy good
[13:41] <Babs_> but presumably adamgreig, if you were pretty stable up (not massively, but pretty stable) up there and pointed upwards at 45 degrees, you might get some nice results with an image stacker
[13:41] <Laurenceb> LeoBodnar: best to get as lot a IF as poss
[13:42] <Laurenceb> otherwise the processing becomes more complex
[13:42] <Babs_> i have to test flight the new improved BABSHAB before 2017 so it could be a mission objective
[13:42] <Babs_> actually "mission objective" sounds too grand. i will just give it a go.
[13:42] <eroomde> stacking helps with distortion and noise a bit
[13:42] <eroomde> but doesn't help you get wavelgnths that the atmosphere absorbs
[13:43] <LeoBodnar> 16.368 seems to produce lowest IF for 4410
[13:43] <Laurenceb> that rings a bell with me
[13:43] <Babs_> wouldn't disagree eroomde
[13:43] <LeoBodnar> The LO must be running at x96 Fref
[13:43] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:44] <LeoBodnar> so we get 1575.42 MHz input - (96 x 16.368MHz Fref) = 4.092 MHZ IF
[13:44] <LeoBodnar> Which is nicely 1/4 of Fref
[13:45] <Laurenceb> and 4kHz IF
[13:45] <LeoBodnar> but Doppler screws everything up anyway
[13:45] <Laurenceb> which is tiny compared to doppler
[13:45] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:45] <LeoBodnar> 4kHz?
[13:45] <Laurenceb> due to the DSP mixing
[13:46] <Laurenceb> you can take out 4.096 trivially
[13:46] <Laurenceb> meanwhile 16.369 would give you 96kHz doppler, a little annoying
[13:46] <LeoBodnar> So FREF0..FREF2 on 4110 must be selecting LO PLL multiplier
[13:46] <LeoBodnar> namely x96
[13:47] <LeoBodnar> 16.369 will produce 3.996MHz IF
[13:48] <Laurenceb> yeah rather annoying to deal with
[13:48] <LeoBodnar> 4110: "The bandpass response has a nominal bandwidth of 2.2 MHz; the nominal center frequency is preset to 4.092 MHz."
[13:48] <Laurenceb> yeah
[13:48] <MLow> lol im watching your talk eroomde
[13:48] <MLow> "yesss........yessssss"
[13:49] <eroomde> that was a good day
[13:49] <LeoBodnar> Is IF filter digital in 4110?
[13:49] <Laurenceb> yes
[13:49] <eroomde> in a 40 minute talk you gloss over the endless allnighters and misbehaving hardware
[13:49] <MLow> made me laugh my ass off
[13:49] <eroomde> so having it work was quite a joy
[13:50] <MLow> i had to do a talk kinda like that, after removing ugly bits of the project it was a fast talk
[13:50] <Laurenceb> bbl
[14:04] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: Look what's just arrived... :)#BoxBuilding #ukhas http://t.co/AVH95wjQfg
[14:12] <gonzo_> is that an un-boxing??
[14:17] <eroomde> meta boxing
[14:18] <MLow> fuscia foam?
[14:20] <MLow> i kind of want to do an open frame payload, i bought a long carbon fiber rod
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[14:24] <Babs_> Mlow - you will still need to keep certain bits warm
[14:24] <Babs_> although the carbon fibre construction thing has been done and works
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[14:25] <MLow> tcxo radio crystal, how warm does a foam box keep things tho?
[14:25] <Babs_> warm enough, depends what you want to do. If cameras etc, then a foam box is needed, if not then LeoBodnar has had a lot of success with very little insultion
[14:26] <Babs_> *insulation
[14:26] <MLow> hm
[14:26] <MLow> what happens to the camera?
[14:28] <Babs_> it gets cold, plus there are mechanical bits in it that could get frozen
[14:28] <Babs_> even if the CCD likes a bit of chilly weather
[14:32] <MLow> i tested some stuff in the meat locket at work
[14:33] <MLow> they let me drop it down to the lowest it would go on a sunday
[14:33] <MLow> (were closed sundays)
[14:34] <MLow> the temp got below the ability of my cheap sensor to measure, the arduino logged it all though and the Contour camera had 8 hours of perfect video
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[14:34] <Babs_> it's up to you, it's what most people do but it would be good to do some real in-balloon testing!
[14:35] <MLow> well i dont want to get too fancy for my first flight im just toying with ideas
[14:35] <Babs_> the blast freezers we used to use went down to -20, it can get 20 below that up top. But you could be lucky.
[14:35] <Babs_> it's not fancy, you can just use a beer cooler or a polystyrene ball http://www.amazon.co.uk/PD-Polystyrene-Balls-120mm/dp/B0027IVJXK
[14:36] <MLow> yeah our meat cooler got to something like that, it's rated for lower though, and was almost full of meat when i did it
[14:36] <eroomde> if you have something like a canon powershot taking pictures with some regularity, eg once every 10s, and then maybe some video, it gets pretty toasty
[14:37] <eroomde> we've picked up some just a few minutes after landing before, and they were really hot
[14:37] <eroomde> i'd estimate 50+C
[14:37] <MLow> well like i said it was at least to -20f in our locker, got a full sd card of video from the contour cam i tested
[14:38] <MLow> i set the panel to -40f
[14:38] <MLow> it's used by our restaurant to blast freeze meat and deserts
[14:38] <x-f> my Canon reported temps a bit above +80C..
[14:38] <Babs_> eroomde, is that within insulating containers though?
[14:38] <MLow> im not sure it would matter a whole lot, but i have no way to know
[14:39] <SpeedEvil> My domestic freezer will hit -48 at least. Which surprised me.
[14:39] <MLow> wow
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[14:40] <MLow> yeah i had no way to test below that
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[14:40] <MLow> cheap sensor only read to -19
[14:40] <MLow> which reminds me i need to buy a good one
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> This is if I leave it on 'boost' for a week - I was expecting a powercut
[14:40] <MLow> like a one-wire digital or something
[14:40] <SpeedEvil> http://ao.com/product/RCNAA300P-Hotpoint-Chest-Freezer-White-26018.aspx?WT.z_PT=MDA&WT.z_MT=Search&WT.z_RTM=PLA&WT.z_DT=c&WT.z_APT=chest%20freezers&WT.z_BR=Hotpoint&WT.z_FT=Free%20Standing&WT.z_PC=RCNAA300P_WH&WT.mc_id=1&gclid=CO3J49Tn7rsCFc3KtAodex4ApQ
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> Basically.
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> It took about a couple of days to come up to normal temperature of -20 - unplugged
[14:41] <MLow> i cannot click that :(
[14:41] <SpeedEvil> hotpoint 300l chest freezer
[14:42] <MLow> hotpoint lol
[14:42] <MLow> the freezer at work is 2 stage, the back door inside the refridgerator is the freezer o.o
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[14:43] <MLow> about 8ft square, fans on all sides, your not alowed to be in there long
[14:43] <MLow> idk what the wind chill is, but static is -20 at least, those fans blow really fast
[14:44] <MLow> i play around with it sometimes, i put a cup of water in there(open cup) and it destroyed the cut in like 5 minutes
[14:44] <MLow> cup*
[14:45] <MLow> im still not sure how the hell that happens
[14:45] <MLow> physics...
[14:45] <SpeedEvil> destroyed?
[14:46] <MLow> well, i think the water on the top froze first, and like, the cup basically was in pieces around a cup shaped icecube
[14:46] <MLow> i should film it or something now that im thinking about it
[14:47] <MLow> but yeah it must have blast froze so quick it griped the sides of the cup before expanding up
[14:49] <adamgreig> cute
[14:49] <adamgreig> bet you could have some fun with that
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[14:51] <MLow> eh, theres not a whole lot to do with it really
[14:51] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[14:51] <MLow> i thought real hard of something to do with a blast freezer and basically its good for making food freeze safely
[14:52] <MLow> and inedible taste wise
[14:52] <Babs_> MLow - other considerations on the polystyrene is that if the chute fouls it's less likely to injure people on the ground
[14:52] <Babs_> not that i think anyone has ever been hit with or without parachute
[14:53] <MLow> oh then i have a suprise for you!
[14:53] <MLow> people will know it's coming
[14:53] <MLow> from literally miles
[14:54] <MLow> 102dB
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[14:55] <MLow> testing it was fun, the cat did not come out from hiding for some time
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[15:11] <x-f> MLow, will you be able to remotely turn off that surprise? :)
[15:11] <MLow> i was thinking big red button
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[15:14] Nick change: Geoff-G8DHE_ -> Geoff-G8DHE-M
[15:14] <MLow> what really interests me is a glider dropped from hab
[15:14] <MLow> but reading through notes its apparently illegal ;(
[15:15] <MLow> watching rocket failure videos on youtube it's damn amazing we ever made it into space
[15:16] <eroomde> yes
[15:17] <eroomde> there is also the sort of vague opinion that a parafoil would be a lot less illegal than a glider
[15:17] <eroomde> as it's just a parachute
[15:18] <MLow> but still a controlled vehicle
[15:19] <eroomde> yes
[15:19] <eroomde> but signalling to give a cutdown command given a live landing prediction is also guidance
[15:19] <MLow> thing of it is i cant find an exact law that it's breaking
[15:20] <adamgreig> uhm
[15:20] <adamgreig> the ANO?
[15:20] <adamgreig> I mean it's more that none of the traditional HAB stuff (<2m things aside) is legal
[15:20] <adamgreig> except by specific exemption
[15:20] <adamgreig> and the specific exemptions mandate descent by parachute
[15:21] <MLow> ANO?
[15:22] <adamgreig> the air navigation order
[15:24] <MLow> doesnt ring a bell
[15:25] <Laurenceb> parafoil is a parachute :P
[15:25] <SpeedEvil> MLow: are you in the UK?
[15:25] <MLow> no sir
[15:26] <adamgreig> ah
[15:26] <Laurenceb> MLow: i did this back in 2009
[15:26] <adamgreig> sorry, easy mistake
[15:26] <Laurenceb> in UK
[15:26] <adamgreig> in the UK this is the case
[15:26] <adamgreig> in the US I'm not sure what the relevant law is
[15:26] <adamgreig> maybe you're not in the US either!
[15:26] <MLow> i have seen many blogs talking about making a high altitude glider
[15:26] <MLow> so i figured it was legal
[15:27] <MLow> im in the US
[15:27] <adamgreig> don't think it would be legal in the US either but I'm really not sure
[15:28] <SpeedEvil> Assuming stuff people are doing is legal can be extremely problematic.
[15:28] <MLow> well yes
[15:28] <Laurenceb> hehe
[15:29] <Laurenceb> just cuz ive done it doesnt make it legal :P
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: I think it is. For parachutes. If a rollago is a parachute is another question.
[15:30] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:30] <SpeedEvil> It'd be very clear with a conventional fabric chute.
[15:30] <Laurenceb> well its a parachute in the "safety" sense
[15:30] <Laurenceb> as it is "self stable"
[15:31] <Laurenceb> its not going to dive at 200mph
[15:31] <Laurenceb> and yes it has a flexible fabric wing
[15:32] <SpeedEvil> With sticks
[15:32] <Laurenceb> shhhhhh
[15:33] <SpeedEvil> Sok. I don't tell them about that, you don't tell them about my parachuting from the ground on rollerskates towed by RC airplanes idea.
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[15:45] <Hix> Am I correct that in debian , once I have done sudo make install I can rm the folder that make ran in?
[15:45] <adamgreig> yes
[15:45] <adamgreig> and that also, you should probably have just used apt, and later you will regret using make install
[15:46] <Hix> cool, was pretty sure, though wanted to double check. apt wouldnt work with node.js
[15:46] <adamgreig> there is probably a .deb for node.js
[15:46] Action: Hix goes to search
[15:46] <Hix> weren't you randomskk yesterday?
[15:47] <adamgreig> somewhat more than yesterday
[15:47] <adamgreig> but yes
[15:47] <adamgreig> well maybe I rejoined briefly as randomskk? it's a fallback nick in my client
[15:47] <Hix> ahh - did wonder
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[15:52] <SpeedEvil> also - heath_kid is still banned
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> Seems a server rejoining rebanned him.
[15:52] <SpeedEvil> err - heathkid
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> heath_kid is not banned
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> Upu:
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[16:09] <craag> Hix: chrislea has a decent ppa for node.js
[16:09] <Hix> craag gotit cheers.
[16:10] <Hix> hopefully sometime before leaving work I can play with D3 :)
[16:10] <Hix> anyone used it for HAB data yet?
[16:11] <craag> node.js?
[16:11] <craag> oh d3
[16:11] <Hix> yup
[16:11] <craag> not afaik
[16:11] <Hix> tha latter
[16:11] <Hix> *the
[16:11] <Hix> it looks very very interesting
[16:11] <craag> looking at it now, looks v neat
[16:12] <Hix> a great way of presenting data
[16:12] <adamgreig> d3 is really nice
[16:12] <Hix> craag --> http://bost.ocks.org/mike/
[16:12] <Hix> especially http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2013/10/27/south-china-sea/
[16:15] <craag> I'm sure that would work a lot better not on my netbook
[16:15] <craag> loving the path chasing though
[16:15] <craag> ( http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/09/25/sports/americas-cup-course.html )
[16:17] <Hix> it could be used to plot loads of flights very easily from habitat i reckon. Seems to be very low load
[16:17] <Hix> habitat spits out JSON data doesn't it?
[16:18] <adamgreig> yea
[16:19] <Hix> hmm - a datasource to play with :D
[16:19] <Hix> google eart is dead :)
[16:19] <Hix> *earth
[16:22] <mattbrejza> talking of which anyone done a habitat -> kml script yet? :P
[16:22] <mattbrejza> (for all flights)
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[16:23] <craag> dumping all the flights?
[16:23] <mattbrejza> yea
[16:24] <adamgreig> habitat can just export in kml
[16:24] <mattbrejza> with something to remove errors too
[16:24] <adamgreig> http://habitat.habhub.org/ept/
[16:24] <craag> hehe you'll need some patience :P
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[16:24] <mattbrejza> all flights in the same kml but a differnt path so you can turn off and on
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[16:31] <Hix> i hadn't even thought of habitat for JSON data to help learning D3 - result
[16:35] <Babs_> Hix. Happy NY
[16:35] <Babs_> So I found someone to do my ally bits
[16:35] <Hix> yo Babs NHY - you answered my Q there :D
[16:35] <Hix> result
[16:36] <Babs_> Peter Solman again
[16:36] <Babs_> I emailed him asking who he suggested and he told me he could do it
[16:36] <Hix> ahh - sweet
[16:36] <Babs_> He has a CNC machine
[16:36] <Babs_> should have thought of him first time around
[16:37] <Babs_> parts in a week or so and then I should be able to bolt it together.
[16:37] <Hix> was he better on price? he didn't have the accuracy so guessing cheaper
[16:37] <Hix> i frogot him too
[16:37] <Babs_> he was ok on price.
[16:37] <Hix> typing specially for you there ;p
[16:37] <Babs_> frogotting him sounds very dodgy
[16:37] <Hix> very Eton
[16:37] <Babs_> i think he can do it to 0.1mm so all i need
[16:37] <Hix> a step up from fagging
[16:38] <Hix> yup that'll be fine #closeenoughisgoodenough
[16:38] <Babs_> i went back with a mate to play some version of footie they do there
[16:38] <Babs_> i would totally go there if i had the opportunity. amazing facilities.
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[16:39] <Hix> Eton?
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[16:40] <Babs_> totally. they were all out playing sport on amazing pitches on a saturday.
[16:40] <Babs_> at the same age I was doughnutting on a field in wolverhampton
[16:40] <Hix> hate to break it to you dude. I think you're outside the age requirements
[16:41] <Hix> I'm assuming doughnutting is the car based version not some horrible euphemism
[16:41] <Babs_> i would totally go there if i had the opportunity when I was between the ages of 8 and 15. amazing facilities.
[16:41] <Hix> heh
[16:42] <Hix> need a time machine then you could bully D.C
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[17:01] <navrac_work> are you around upu?
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/448767054/Hydrophilic_Coated_Nitinol_Angiography_Guide_Wires.html
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[17:29] <Upu> hey navrac_work
[17:29] <Upu> here now
[17:29] <navrac_work> hiya - where did you find the register descriptions for the si4060?
[17:30] <Upu> http://www.upuaut.net/EZRadioPRO/si406x/index.html
[17:31] <navrac_work> ah - ok - not very friendly is it
[17:32] <Upu> not particularly :)
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[17:32] <navrac_work> do you think you could push it to run at 38.4mhz - i know the datasheet says 32mhz but it seems to me with a bit of tweaking at that freq you could do domino in code
[17:33] <Upu> half it
[17:33] <Upu> it runs fine with the 16. whatever
[17:33] <navrac_work> I did a little bit of experimenting to see how far out fldigi will accept domino tones and I'm wondering whether the 4060 would run at that clock and then user a lower divider to get better freq resoln
[17:34] <Upu> I run a 16.378Mhz TCXO
[17:36] <navrac_work> I presume because of availability of parts?
[17:36] <Upu> its known to work
[17:37] <mikestir> habs on cbeebies
[17:37] <navrac_work> thanks for the info - I'll get back to trying to get an rfm69 to talk to an rfm22
[17:37] <mikestir> navrac_work: i've done that - need any help?
[17:38] <navrac_work> I just can't handle soldering the si chips on so I'm back to modules
[17:39] <navrac_work> thanks for the offer mikester - I will try to work it out myself , were you using existing libraries
[17:39] <mikestir> no I wrote it from scratch - I'm not an arduino guy
[17:39] <mikestir> it's quite straightforward. you can use the packet engines but only as far as the length byte
[17:40] <mikestir> the address matching bit is on the opposite side of the length, and the CRCs aren't compatible
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[17:41] <navrac_work> I'm trying to write a teensie tiny library for the rfm69 at the moment - shh no clues - I'm working it out myself when I'm having trips on planes and trains.
[17:42] <navrac_work> If you tell me it will be like finding out the ending of a book! ( not saying that I haven't made a note about the address bit!
[17:43] <mikestir> ok i'll keep quiet :)
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[17:43] <navrac_work> until I come to you begging out of frustration!
[17:43] <YO9ICT> Has anyone tried lithium coin cells on low altitude balloons ?
[17:44] <mikestir> so who did the cbeebies hab flight? was it daveake?
[17:45] <navrac_work> YO9ICT - insufficient current at low temps
[17:45] <navrac_work> the GPS pulls too much when searcjing for satellites
[17:47] <YO9ICT> i was thinking like one of the big size cells
[17:47] <YO9ICT> cr2040 is abt. 600 mAh
[17:48] <mattbrejza> whats the recommended / max current draw?
[17:49] <YO9ICT> cr2450 correction
[17:50] <YO9ICT> they say 3mA, long life 10 yrs
[17:50] <mattbrejza> yea taht wont start a gps
[17:52] <navrac_work> If you are careful you will still need around 50mA for 30 secs or so as a minimum
[17:52] <navrac_work> and the tx will be running at a min of 20mA when on
[17:53] <navrac_work> and at those sort of currents the Internal resistance gets too high and the capacity falls by 90% off the top of my head
[17:54] <YO9ICT> i have managed to power a 433 simple transmitter for over 7 days straight with a cr2032, outside de home (winter)
[17:54] <YO9ICT> will keep in mind your advices
[17:56] <navrac_work> the trouble is that to tx a simple position string in hab format means your tx time is >10 secs and it doesnt like the pulses to be that long
[17:57] <YO9ICT> that makes sense
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[18:32] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[19:01] <daveake> mikestir I did one for BBC Education
[19:02] <mikestir> it was carrying a little toy mouse
[19:03] <mikestir> they did a commendable job of explaining escape velocity using little glowing balls and a man with an earth hat
[19:03] <daveake> not me
[19:04] <mikestir> they used rtty for the sound a satellite makes, but then I think the mainstream media actually think that's the case :)
[19:07] <daveake> compared to most media representations of facts, that's a minor transgretion!
[19:08] <daveake> ss
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> mikestir: Join #cubesat - and find out it is!
[19:09] <mikestir> hehe true
[19:12] <ibanezmatt13> is it true that if you have a low num of satellites on lock say 4, you'd get a lot more fluctuation in say altitude than if you had say 9 satellites right?
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[19:14] <SpeedEvil> yes.
[19:14] <ibanezmatt13> ah good, thought so. because before, NORB was descending at a rate of -9m/s on my window ledge! And now it's headed up at nearly 4ms-1. I have 4 sats
[19:14] <SpeedEvil> All else being equal.
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[19:15] <ibanezmatt13> Also, I know you should aim for a shift of 425 for RTTY as a guide from the wiki. I have a shift of 810... perfectly decodable but just wondering if that will cause any problems on the day
[19:16] <daveake> 425 is just one of the preset numbers for dl-fldigi
[19:16] <ibanezmatt13> oh right ok. Just 810 is a lot more than what I normally see so was just making sure that wouldn't bring any extra problems
[19:17] <daveake> The higher you go, the more often the lines will fall off the side of the waterfall if your signal drifts
[19:17] <daveake> So personally I'd cut it down to 425
[19:17] <daveake> as it's easy to do
[19:18] <ibanezmatt13> ok. So basically desolder the 33k resistor on the tx line to something more suitable
[19:19] <daveake> sorry I should have asked - what baud rate?
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> 50
[19:19] <daveake> somehow I assumed that
[19:19] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:19] <daveake> shift needs to be >= baud rate
[19:20] <daveake> so if you were building a tracker that you expect to use at 600 baud sometime, I'd set it to 600Hz now
[19:20] <ibanezmatt13> right, so I need to get it down by half really
[19:21] <daveake> it's not a big deal. just helps the listeners
[19:21] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, so I'd half the 30K to around the 15ohm mark?
[19:22] <ibanezmatt13> Those potential dividers always confused me :P
[19:22] <daveake> erm no :p
[19:22] <daveake> first half of 30k is 14k not 15 ohm :/
[19:22] <ibanezmatt13> oops yes
[19:22] <daveake> and you need to double not half
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> of course, forget everything I just said
[19:23] <daveake> think of it as the digital line as a hand waggling up and down
[19:23] <daveake> you want to reduce the influence of that hand on the NTX2 line
[19:23] <daveake> increasing the resistor value does that
[19:23] <ibanezmatt13> ah yes. reduction in shift -> reduction in current -> increase in resistance
[19:24] <daveake> I prefer my way of thinking about it :)
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> yes, your way is much more intuitive :)
[19:24] <daveake> and that's why :)
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> needs a smiley :
[19:24] <ibanezmatt13> :)
[19:25] <ibanezmatt13> Ok so... I need to find a very small 60Kish resistor very soon. Awesome
[19:27] <daveake> 62k is the nearest preferred value
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> sorted, thanks daveake
[19:28] <daveake> but don't go out of your way - it's not a big deal for listeners, as I said
[19:28] <ibanezmatt13> I think I know a place I have a chance of getting one 0603 resistor... maybe ;)
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[19:32] <mfa298> it's probably worth getting your head around the maths, It's not too hard when you see what's happening. You could then work out the resistor values you want for the shift values that you'de be happy with (say between 300 and 600Hz shift)
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[19:33] <daveake> Yeah it's something you should really be able to derive from scratch
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[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> Yeah, I've always tried to figure it and have gotten really close but never fully grasped it
[19:34] <ibanezmatt13> I'm fine with the divider equation, we learned it recently actually. I just can't see how it all works with signals from microcontrollers instead of a closed loop with battery :/
[19:35] <daveake> to a close approximation, makes no difference
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[19:35] <ibanezmatt13> I imagine it's pretty much the same, just my brain is a little idiotic at times
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[19:36] <ibanezmatt13> I look at this http://ukhas.org.uk/_detail/guides:ntx2_divider.jpg
[19:37] <daveake> I think that page has been wrong more often than right
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[19:37] <mfa298> it might help if you modeled the uC pin as a switch between +v and 0v
[19:38] <ibanezmatt13> ok, I'll draw it out
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[19:39] <mfa298> lolz, Live musak in a lift on the one show.
[19:39] <daveake> just saw that!
[19:44] Lunar_Lander (~kevin@p5488882D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #highaltitude.
[19:44] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[19:47] <ibanezmatt13> Cup of tea + SGL. bbl
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[20:04] <daveake> I want one of those SGL globes :)
[20:04] <daveake> Be ace for showing long-distant floaters
[20:05] <mfa298> so chances of clear skies over the UK tonight - probably somewhere near 0% now!
[20:05] <daveake> Didn't realise you could get such good aurora pix from Scotland
[20:06] <daveake> Gotta be worth a hab expedition there sometime :)
[20:06] <mfa298> lack of artificial light probably helps a lot
[20:06] <daveake> yup
[20:07] Action: mfa298 wonders how far he'd have to go to get away from all the artifical lights
[20:20] <daveake> Dara weightless lol
[20:21] <Willdude123> Hello
[20:22] <Willdude123> Had a great qso in the car on a rubber ducky
[20:22] <Willdude123> On FN
[20:32] <daveake> Aurorae and rockets. I need to get a job there :)
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[20:46] <jcoxon> evening all
[20:47] Laurenceb_ (~Laurence@host86-143-189-12.range86-143.btcentralplus.com) joined #highaltitude.
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> hi all
[20:49] LeoBodnar (4e966715@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.150.103.21) joined #highaltitude.
[20:49] <Laurenceb_> hi Leo
[20:52] <LeoBodnar> Hi!
[20:52] <LeoBodnar> reading 4110 DS
[20:53] <LeoBodnar> So CLK_OUT is x4 the IF ?
[20:53] <Laurenceb_> yes
[20:53] <number10> evening jcoxon
[20:55] <LeoBodnar> is it easier to keep data sampled at 16MHz?
[20:56] <LeoBodnar> You have said earlier that it can be downsampled to 4MHz?
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> i meant 8Msps
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> 4Msps of I and Q
[21:00] <Laurenceb_> but if you are going for A-GPS style stuff with FFT you could probably keep all the data
[21:02] <LeoBodnar> It's probably easier this way
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> i suspect optimised code on pic24 would only take a second or so to get a fix
[21:03] <Laurenceb_> someone did GPS on arduino with a spartan3 dev board for the correlators
[21:04] <LeoBodnar> Are there any large data tables required?
[21:05] <LeoBodnar> i.e. preinitialised data
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> doh
[21:05] <Laurenceb_> yeah that wouldnt fit on pic24
[21:06] <Laurenceb_> you need twiddle factor lookups for the FFT and precomputed PRN sequences in frequency space
[21:07] <Lunar_Lander> nice to see that Stargazing Live continues
[21:07] <LeoBodnar> How big are they?
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> about 8kB for the FFT twiddle
[21:08] <Laurenceb_> then if you use pruned FFT...
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> 64kB for the PRN
[21:09] <Laurenceb_> stm32f4 has 2MB of flash :D
[21:09] <LeoBodnar> heh
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[21:11] <Laurenceb_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POWER8
[21:11] shol (~shol@ppp-188-174-162-33.dynamic.mnet-online.de) joined #highaltitude.
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> "Each core can issue 10 instructions and dispatch 8 each cycle to 16 Execution Units (EU)"
[21:12] <Laurenceb_> O_o
[21:12] <LeoBodnar> Are these PRN tables computed for different doppler shifts?
[21:12] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: No, you can sort of cheat on that.
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: That changes slow enough that you can without too much hastle do that manually.
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[21:13] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: In principle, it might be nice - but the combinatorial explosion would be utterly ridiculous.
[21:13] <Laurenceb_> you shift the lookup sideways
[21:13] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[21:13] <LeoBodnar> PRNs can be generated with shift registers polynomials
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[21:13] <Laurenceb_> to deal with the doppler
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> PRN in frequency space isnt so easy to generate tho
[21:14] <Laurenceb_> so you need lookup or you have ~twice as many FFT operations
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[21:15] <SpeedEvil> Isn't the existing design of the code well past the point at which it would be 'good enough' though?
[21:15] <SpeedEvil> If 'design' isn't too strong a word.
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[21:16] <Laurenceb_> someone needs to make a power8 desktop
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[21:19] <Laurenceb_> hmm 300W power consumption :-/
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> just for the processor
[21:19] <LeoBodnar> not pico-firendly
[21:19] <SpeedEvil> Ideal for hot air.
[21:19] <Laurenceb_> lol
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> but 1TB of ram :D
[21:20] <Laurenceb_> and 12 cores at 5GHz
[21:20] <SpeedEvil> It would certainly solve the problems of image stitching.
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[21:24] <LeoBodnar> One of the chips I am using elsewhere is PIC24 with 256KB code and 96KB RAM
[21:25] <LeoBodnar> it might be OK for this
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[21:27] <MarcusOBrien> Hey folks. Anyone online?
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[21:29] <SpeedEvil> no
[21:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> no one here
[21:30] <Geoff-G8DHE> just us virtuals
[21:30] <MarcusOBrien> It's very quiet is all
[21:30] <MarcusOBrien> Bought a second hand Yaesu FT-790 and it arrived today
[21:31] <MarcusOBrien> Chuffed with it
[21:31] <MarcusOBrien> Need to get some batteries for it though...
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[21:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> helps and an aerial!
[21:31] <MarcusOBrien> Came with an ariel
[21:31] <Geoff-G8DHE> washing up powder doesn't do much
[21:31] <MarcusOBrien> A small one that screws in on top
[21:32] <MarcusOBrien> Ha
[21:34] <mfa298> you may find the antenna it comes with isn't as good as a larger one. Depends a bit on where you'll be using it.
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[21:35] <MarcusOBrien> I bought it for my first HAB launch this summer, so know I'll need to make a directional hand held for that
[21:35] <MarcusOBrien> But it will do for testing my payload setup in the house
[21:36] <mfa298> it's well worth trying to track other peoples flights (assuming there are some reasonably close to you)
[21:36] <MarcusOBrien> I'll do that too, before my own launch.
[21:36] <MarcusOBrien> I was wondering does anyone have any advice on which GPS to use for my setup. I want it to be cheap and reliable
[21:37] <MarcusOBrien> There are so many options on ukhas
[21:37] <MarcusOBrien> Its hard to decide whats best
[21:37] <MarcusOBrien> Im running an Arduino mega board
[21:38] <LeoBodnar> OK complete reap-apart of finished board time
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[21:39] <mfa298> in terms of GPS get a UBlox
[21:40] <MarcusOBrien> Have you used it mfa298?
[21:40] <mfa298> easiest option is to get one of these http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_60
[21:41] <mfa298> Most gps modules stop at 18km, Balloons tend to go to 30-45km
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[21:41] <mfa298> UBlox has a mode (usually known as flight mode) which means it works to 50km
[21:43] <LeoBodnar> yo Laurenceb
[21:43] <mfa298> you can also find radio modules (NTX2B is popular) on that store.
[21:43] <MarcusOBrien> Ive also been looking at Falcom or Vinotech
[21:44] <MarcusOBrien> I think they're high altitude
[21:44] <Willdude123> What is new about the NTX2B?
[21:45] Action: cm13g09 mutters something about DIP being dead
[21:45] <bertrik> very low effect of temperature on carrier frequency
[21:45] <mfa298> Willdude123: NTX2B has TCXO so is much more stable - also has a range of frequencies.
[21:46] <daveake> So we no longer have an excuse to wind up hams by using their repeater freq :(
[21:47] <Willdude123> daveake: were hams worried about inputs or outputs?
[21:47] <MarcusOBrien> daveake: a
[21:47] <Willdude123> Did you actually do that?
[21:47] <MarcusOBrien> Akerman?
[21:47] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: pong
[21:47] <daveake> It's a theoretical problem not a real one
[21:47] <daveake> But does get some people hot under the collar
[21:47] <LeoBodnar> how about 256KB flash and 96KB RAM
[21:47] <mfa298> Willdude123: some got upset when when there might have been a 10mW TX 100km from their repeater - without really thinking about what the real impact would be
[21:47] <daveake> MarcusOBrien, Yep
[21:47] <Geoff-G8DHE> The only problem is on this channel AFAICS ;-)
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[21:48] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: probably doable
[21:48] <daveake> Still, not as bad as using the wrong network setting on APRS
[21:48] <MarcusOBrien> Ha great. I spent most of this christmas break reading up about your various launches, watching the videos etc
[21:48] <daveake> That starts fisticuffs in the USA
[21:48] <MarcusOBrien> Thanks for blogging all that stuff
[21:48] <daveake> np always fun to write them up
[21:48] <MarcusOBrien> It makes it easier for people to get involved
[21:49] <mfa298> MarcusOBrien: there are some discount codes for the Hab supplies store and a lot of experience with the stuff on there so lots of support available - potentially something to consider if you're looking at alternatives where there may not be as much community experience.
[21:49] <daveake> Yeah there are plenty of blogs and sites around these days
[21:49] <daveake> Always good to see how people do things differently
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> http://advancedadhesivesshop.co.uk/shop/article_28/3010---490ml.html?sessid=2znw31fKY7MIgxqI0BtsmFHAv8BuIU0sqMi5axvd9zLbkO8yXEeKPMFgjQplldHH&shop_param=cid%3D6%26aid%3D28%26
[21:49] <Laurenceb_> droooolll
[21:50] <cm13g09> ah that wonderful moment when you discover a DIP8 component you specced for something has been discontinued, and the replacement part is a SOIC8 version of the same part
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> Woe is you.
[21:51] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOIC8-SOP8-to-DIP8-EZ-Programmer-Adapter-Socket-Converter-Module-With-150mil-/400637773775?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d47df47cf
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[21:51] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-SO8-SOIC8-SOP8-TO-DIP8-adapter-SOP8-DIP8-pcb-conveter-board-/170962916639?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item27ce2f151f
[21:51] <number10> what are the adhesives for Laurenceb_
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> number10: gluing drool.
[21:52] <mfa298> Considering we've had a repeater keeper tracking flights and I think he mostly agrees with our position about the likely impact on repeaters I think we're fairly safe :D
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> thats for polythene
[21:52] <MarcusOBrien> mfa298: Thanks for the advice. I'm building up my kit bit by bit.
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> very awesome stuff
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> but very expensive :-/
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: that is for one tube?
[21:52] <SpeedEvil> not a case?
[21:52] <Laurenceb_> yes
[21:53] <number10> the project Laurenceb_ ?
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[21:53] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: rivets?
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> yeah 490ml
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> well in some cases you could use rivets
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> number10: im trying to glue polyurethane elastomer to ABS
[21:53] <number10> ...
[21:53] <Laurenceb_> i dont think that stuff is ideal, but usefull for other stuff
[21:55] <cm13g09> SpeedEvil: I can be thankful it's that way around
[21:55] <cm13g09> rather than SOIC to PDIP ;)
[21:55] <Laurenceb_> whats the ... for?
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[22:01] <Laurenceb_> nice, they sell ethyl cyanoacrylate
[22:01] <Laurenceb_> http://advancedadhesivesshop.co.uk/shop/article_01/C3---20g.html?sessid=2znw31fKY7MIgxqI0BtsmFHAv8BuIU0sqMi5axvd9zLbkO8yXEeKPMFgjQplldHH&shop_param=cid%3D2%26aid%3D01%26
[22:02] <Laurenceb_> not a bad price either
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[22:11] <Laurenceb_> number10: can you offer any advice?
[22:12] <number10> no Laurenceb_ I was just interested in what yoir project was
[22:12] <number10> your
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[22:13] <Laurenceb_> oh its medical sensor work stuff
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[22:31] <ve6ts> hi, on 70cm with 10mW transmitter at a low float altitude, around 6000ft, what radio range could be expected? i couldn't get more then around 30-40km
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> id expect more than that
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> maybe poor antenni
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> i think we have seen 100km+ from altitudes that low
[22:33] <ve6ts> (recieve side) i was using an omni, i will be building a yagii to try that
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[22:33] <Laurenceb_> oh
[22:33] <ve6ts> really? wow, 100km would be great
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> yeah an omni is going to suffer
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> might be worth investing an a SAW filter and LNA
[22:34] <ve6ts> i did my first float over the vacation, which mixed results
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> habamp is useful
[22:35] <ve6ts> i was shocked that my yaesy 817 preformed about the same as my cheap sdr with a UHF TV antenna
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:36] <ve6ts> i have a micro launch comming up with a school, to get them interested in HAB, then in the spring we will launch a full sized balloon with them
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> sounds fun
[22:36] <bertrik> ve6ts: a floater?
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> ve6ts: edge of radio horizon is typical at that altitude
[22:37] <ve6ts> bertrik was a floater
[22:37] <LeoBodnar> and 50km further if you are Upu or from NL
[22:37] <ve6ts> at about 6000ft
[22:38] <ve6ts> oh sorry, forgot to mention, 6000ft float but gndlvl is around 3000
[22:38] <ve6ts> so that's 3000 ft agl
[22:38] <ve6ts> i'm just so used to people around here living at 3000ft+
[22:39] <Laurenceb_> heh
[22:41] <Laurenceb_> bbl
[22:41] <mattbrejza> anyone come across dhl wanting a EORI number to ship from abroad?
[22:41] <ve6ts> so it sounds that i hit the limit of horizon at that alt
[22:41] <ve6ts> that is what i thought
[22:42] <bertrik> wikipedia has a couple of formulas for horizon, IIRC range in km = from 3 to 4 times the square root (altitude in meters)
[22:42] <bertrik> approximations I mean
[22:44] <ve6ts> so the limit would be around 90km for me, but i was getting less then 1/2 that, well i'll try a better antenna and maybe some filters
[22:47] <Willdude123> Is it possible to decode APRS heard on the WebSDR?
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[22:50] <mfa298> probably
[22:50] <mfa298> you'll just need to pipe the audio into some suitable software
[22:50] <mfa298> finding suitable software and making it work might be more of a challenge
[22:51] <Willdude123> Right
[22:51] <Willdude123> Any suggestions?
[22:52] <mfa298> when I've played with aprs I've use AGWPE and UI-View32. AGWPE acts as a software TNC and then UI-View32 talks to that to get the packets and display the,
[22:53] <mfa298> there's also ARPSIS32 but I think you need AGWPE (or similar) again.
[22:54] <ve6ts> i haven't found any software other then AGWPE that can decode, other software needs AGWPE or a hardware tnc to work
[22:54] <MLow> theres more
[22:54] <MLow> MixW is better than agw
[22:54] <ve6ts> i have mixw i thought it required agw to decode aprs
[22:54] <MLow> no lol
[22:55] <Willdude123> Is a physical TNC best or does software do it perfectly well?
[22:55] <ve6ts> i've had issues with agw
[22:55] <ve6ts> it's not as sensative for weak signals
[22:55] <MLow> Willdude123: i dont have a hardware tnc to test with
[22:56] <MLow> ve6ts: can you program?
[22:56] <ve6ts> MLow i code in C mostly
[22:56] <Reb-SM3ULC> ve6ts: i heard leos balloon 300 km away with height about 12000ft
[22:56] <mfa298> hardware tnc might do a better job but AGWPE + ARPSIS32/Ui-View32 gets you started quickly and cheaply
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[22:57] <ve6ts> mfa298 true, hardware TNC's do cost more, but they are better
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[22:57] <MLow> http://sourceforge.net/projects/qtmm/files/1.0.37/
[22:57] <ve6ts> Reb-SM3ULC that is great range, my balloon was floating at 3000ft agl
[22:58] <Reb-SM3ULC> ve6ts: yeah, don't know if there was exceptional conditions
[22:58] <Reb-SM3ULC> ve6ts: was on a driver element from a yagi, so single dipol
[22:59] <ve6ts> MLow cool i try it
[22:59] <mfa298> I probably ought to do some experimenting as my radio has a built in TNC (although might not be as good as a standalone tnc)
[23:00] <MLow> ve6ts: full source included, so you could easily hack it to output over tcp or something
[23:00] <MLow> or even go as far as make a tracker or something
[23:00] <ve6ts> mfa298 which radio do you have?
[23:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> MLow: cool, i'll try int
[23:01] <ve6ts> MLow that could be useful for our group launches, not everyone has a radio
[23:01] <jcoxon> Reb-SM3ULC, you looking at qtmm?
[23:01] <jcoxon> i've got a script to extract the data and push it to xastir
[23:01] <MLow> best radio for this stuff is an sdr
[23:01] <Reb-SM3ULC> jcoxon: yeah
[23:01] <MLow> thats my humble opinion though
[23:02] <Reb-SM3ULC> jcoxon: ah, nice
[23:02] <MLow> whats xastir?
[23:03] <ve6ts> MLow i've used it before it is xwindows aprs client
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[23:04] <MLow> i dont get it
[23:04] <jcoxon> so qtmm decodes the aprs packets and xastir maps them
[23:05] <ve6ts> it is like ARPSIS32 but runs on xwindows (like linux or BSD)
[23:05] <MLow> im more curious as to how this script works
[23:05] <mfa298> ve6ts: Kenwwod TS-2000
[23:05] <jcoxon> oh so qtmm outputs a form of the decoded packet to the commandline
[23:06] <jcoxon> and the script just re-organises it into its orignal packet format and passes it to xastir via tcp
[23:06] <Reb-SM3ULC> jcoxon: any url to script?
[23:06] <MLow> no windows :(
[23:06] <jcoxon> Reb-SM3ULC, i'll post it at some point
[23:06] <jcoxon> it needs a little bit more work
[23:06] <MLow> you people and your linux
[23:06] <MLow> sorry, gnu/linux
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[23:07] <Reb-SM3ULC> MLow: i have many powershells-scripts also.. :)
[23:08] <MLow> i dont see any way to run it in a prompt
[23:08] <MLow> are there arguments listed somewhere
[23:08] <MLow> mixW and qtmm are on par with decoding, agw misses way more
[23:14] <ve6ts> hmm, i'm going to try my mixw and my sdr tonight
[23:19] <ve6ts> well i'm finishing up here at work, chat with you all later
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[23:27] <MLow> uh oh, http://qt.nokia.com/
[23:28] <Laurenceb_> not loading
[23:29] <arko> that was like the 1 thing nokia did well
[23:29] <arko> :/
[23:29] <arko> they better not be killing qt
[23:33] <MLow> found it
[23:33] <MLow> http://goo.gl/EJZu6v
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[23:40] <SpeedEvil> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicyanoacetylene - I herd u liek triple bonds.
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[23:42] <Laurenceb_> wow thats insane
[23:44] <SpeedEvil> I was looking up heats of combustion.
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[23:46] <WillTablet> Anyone here know much about json?
[23:47] <SpeedEvil> a little
[23:48] <mfa298> that probably depends on what the question is
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> im going to try polyurethane hot melt glue sticks in a glue gun
[23:48] <Laurenceb_> for bonding polyurethane film
[23:49] <SpeedEvil> seems not insane.
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> if i can find some..
[23:49] <Laurenceb_> regular hot melt glue just peels off
[23:50] <Laurenceb_> i could make some with rolled up sheets of film...
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: On the other hand. Burn the above in ozone, and you get a flame temperature of 5516K.
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Coincidentally, this is 10K hotter than the surface of the sun.
[23:50] <WillTablet> Well
[23:50] <Laurenceb_> doesnt sound too rocket friendly
[23:50] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Alas no.
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> The average molecular weight of the exhaust is what - 12.5?
[23:51] <SpeedEvil> maybe 14 - with the oxygen
[23:51] <WillTablet> I came across a programming language that blocks any responses that aren't mime type json or xml with it's HTTP lib.
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> yeah something like that
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> dunno how it all reacts
[23:51] <Laurenceb_> might have nitrogen oxides and stuff
[23:51] <WillTablet> Is that acceptable in practice?
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> and that's assuming it stays monatomic in the exhaust - which may mean that you have really linited expansion
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: well - it means you can't use that library for general stuff.
[23:52] <SpeedEvil> WillTablet: In some cases - sure it may be fine.
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> ISPcalc.exe has ozone
[23:52] <WillTablet> I wanted to get json
[23:52] <Laurenceb_> but not Dicyanoacetylene
[23:52] <mfa298> WillTablet: that sounds more like a HTTP question than a JSON question and it probably good practice
[23:53] <WillTablet> But the server presented it as type text
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> it runs ok in dosbox
[23:53] <WillTablet> Are mime types not superfluous if we know what type it will be?
[23:53] <Laurenceb_> http://www.dunnspace.com/isp.htm
[23:54] <mfa298> the mime type is part of the HTTP protocol and are suposed to be an indication of what the data is so the recieving end knows what to do with it.
[23:54] <WillTablet> Right.
[23:55] <WillTablet> It seems silly to restrict it though
[23:55] <WillTablet> It is supposed to be for child protectiob
[23:55] <mfa298> why?
[23:55] <SpeedEvil> File a bugreport with the language designer.
[23:55] Action: SpeedEvil is damn sure he can find xml porn out there.
[23:56] <mfa298> if the application is expecting JSON or XML data then filtering out something that's got a mime type of say image/jpeg is quite reasonable as it's not going to know what to do with jpeg data.
[23:56] <WillTablet> mfa298: the theory being that kids can't get adult websites through the code
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[23:57] <mfa298> it might help to know a bit more about what you're looking at.
[23:57] <WillTablet> mfa298: it's called yousrc
[23:57] <WillTablet> We are using it at school
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[00:00] --- Thu Jan 9 2014