[00:00] <mikestir> might do - the spectrum of an FM signal involves bessel functions
[00:00] <ike> or it look like this http://www.nti-online.de/95_5_MHz_radio_charivari_wasserfall-600.jpg ?
[00:00] <ike> mikestir I don't know what is bessel function
[00:01] <ike> "Bessel's equation arises when finding separable solutions to Laplace's equation and the Helmholtz equation in cylindrical or spherical coordinates."
[00:01] <ike> I've heard some of those words
[00:01] <ike> but it's dangerous to go there
[00:02] <mfa298> g4sgx_lappy: I think uC in a polystyrene ball is how a lot of the Pava boards get used. Not sure about Pi's although if you use a model-A and change the linear reg to a smps there should be less heating issues.
[00:02] <eroomde> there's a fine approximation for the bandwidth of fm
[00:02] <mikestir> just think of it as having been modulated twice. For RTTY there are two frequencies at RF - one for mark and one for space. For AFSK the mark and space frequencies are generated at audio frequency and modulated up to RF in a second, unrelated step
[00:02] <eroomde> one sec
[00:02] <mikestir> carson's rule eroomde
[00:02] <eroomde> thanks
[00:02] <mikestir> 2*(deviation + highest modulating freq)
[00:03] <g4sgx_lappy> mfa98: ok thanks Im using a PIC so might go with a 6" ball and make sure it doesnt overheat at room temp.
[00:04] <ike> g4sgx_lappy msp430 are cheap and crappy mcus but the add say that they sleep at several nA
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[00:12] <g4sgx_lappy> Havn't investigated sleep power saving as yet but the PIC deep sleeps at 100nA if activated.
[00:13] <ike> can you wake up from 100nA
[00:13] <ike> ot it need external signal?
[00:14] <g4sgx_lappy> Nope, all by software
[00:15] <g4sgx_lappy> but i think it has to be an interupt or I/o/timer obviously, havent had too good a look as yet.
[00:15] <ike> with 2V and 100nA I can promise no overheat
[00:16] <g4sgx_lappy> cool. now looking up the sleep thingy..
[00:17] <mikestir> ike: I think you'll find that's with all the oscillators off - it's more like 500nA to be able to self-wake (which is still really good)
[00:18] <mikestir> current PICs and AVRs are comparable though - the MSP430 really is particularly good in terms of run current (MIPS per uA)
[00:18] <g4sgx_lappy> 80nA. Exit ny real time clock or interupt
[00:18] <g4sgx_lappy> *by
[00:19] <g4sgx_lappy> think ill go for the clock
[00:19] <ike> how much current does real time clock eat? 80nA?
[00:20] <ike> mikestir you can't have all oscillators off and self-wake at the same time
[00:20] <mikestir> I know - that was my point
[00:20] <mikestir> 100nA is all oscs off, so you can't self wake from that
[00:22] <g4sgx_lappy> yeh it states 290-460nA for Deep sleep Watchdog timer
[00:23] <ike> but for me 100 and 500nA is the same
[00:24] <mikestir> depends on your application. one is 5 times worse - if you are doing a sensor node that harvests its energy from the environment then you might care
[00:25] <g4sgx_lappy> I suspect I will have to use wake by USART (foe the GPS) which is I think normal sleep mode, but still with usable savings.
[00:26] <mikestir> you should be able to sleep the cpu while leaving the peripherals enabled, waking on interrupt
[00:26] <mikestir> anyway. work tomorrow :( gn all
[00:26] <ike> mikestir night
[00:26] <ike> and 10x
[00:28] <g4sgx_lappy> nite.. Yes there are 3 levels of sleep on the pic, many can wake by interupt, peripherals etc but use more current obviously. Will need to work out the duty cyclkes etc
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[00:31] <g4sgx_lappy> im off too up at 5 first day back after hols. Nite.
[00:31] <ike> g4sgx_lappy if you have modern GPS you can play with it's features
[00:32] <ike> you can setup GPS module to sleep and auto awake every 2 minutes and send 1 GPS set of data
[00:33] <g4sgx_lappy> Yep a data ready interupt would be possible instead of polling also. I'll leave that 'extreme power saving' techniques til laters. gotta go.. cyas.
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[02:22] <Joel_re> hey
[02:22] <Joel_re> anyone awake?
[02:28] <Darkside> well given its 1pm in australia, ys
[02:28] <Darkside> yes**
[02:28] <Joel_re> hello :)
[02:29] <Joel_re> Im trying to hook up the ublox7Q gps module
[02:29] <Darkside> mhmm
[02:29] <Joel_re> do I need to connect anything more than RXD, power supply, gnd?
[02:29] <Joel_re> it should just spit out gps data right?
[02:30] <Darkside> it outputs data on the TXD pin
[02:30] <Darkside> and receives data on the RXD pin
[02:30] <Darkside> those labels are referring to the ublox
[02:30] <Darkside> so you want to hook the RXD of the ublox modules to the TXD of the arduino/whatever
[02:30] <Darkside> and vice versa for TXD
[02:30] <Joel_re> yep, I meant TXD
[02:30] <Joel_re> double checked that :)
[02:31] <Darkside> and you do want to hook up both the modules TXD and RXD lines, else you want set the module into flight mode
[02:31] <Joel_re> so there is some initialization needed?
[02:31] <Darkside> not to get it running in noemal mode
[02:31] <Darkside> normal*
[02:31] <Darkside> you should be able to apply power and have data come out the TXD pin
[02:32] <Darkside> are your logic levels correct?
[02:32] <Joel_re> hmm, I do have power, TXD, GND hooked up fine
[02:32] <Joel_re> yes, this is a msp430 board so its all 3.3V
[02:32] <Darkside> ok
[02:32] <Joel_re> Im probably doing something wrong
[02:32] <Darkside> then it should be outputting data
[02:32] <Joel_re> Ill check again
[02:32] <Darkside> put a LED on the PPS pin
[02:32] <Joel_re> wish there was some indication of life
[02:32] <Darkside> see if thats blinking
[02:33] <Joel_re> ah ok
[02:33] <Joel_re> let me try that
[02:33] <Darkside> or is thre no PPS pin on that breakout
[02:34] <Joel_re> I made the breakout without a PPS header, I'll check with the multimeter hooked to the pin
[02:36] <Darkside> if you're not using the RXD pin, mayb ground it
[02:36] <Darkside> as the ublox may receive noise on that pin if its floating
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[02:39] <ike> RX pin should be pulled up HI internally
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[02:39] <Darkside> doesnt hurt though
[02:39] <ike> Joel_re didn't you finish your project already
[02:40] <Joel_re> ike: no, it was stalled .. I was testing with the mtk3339 gps module
[02:40] <Joel_re> was waiting for the max7q module
[02:40] <ike> mtk3339 are great modules
[02:40] <ike> it have a ton of features
[02:40] <Joel_re> only until 18k feet
[02:41] <Joel_re> or was it meters
[02:41] <Darkside> and even the adafruit one with the 'special firmware!!' doesnt go above 28km
[02:41] <Joel_re> hrm
[02:41] <Darkside> Upu tested that
[02:41] <Joel_re> so I dont seem to have a pulse
[02:41] <Darkside> ah
[02:41] <Joel_re> ah
[02:42] <Darkside> you're feeding powr to all appropriate pins?
[02:42] <Joel_re> just to pin 8
[02:42] <Joel_re> is that wrong?
[02:42] <ike> Vcc and GND right?
[02:42] <Darkside> i think theres 3 pins you need to feed it to
[02:42] <Darkside> hold on, ill bring up the datasheet
[02:42] <Joel_re> ike: yes VCC, gnd is right
[02:43] <Joel_re> http://www.u-blox.com/en/gps-modules/pvt-modules/neo-7.html
[02:43] <Darkside> err
[02:43] <Darkside> max-7 right?
[02:43] <Joel_re> yes
[02:43] <Joel_re> Max 7Q
[02:43] <Darkside> k
[02:43] <Joel_re> oops ignore my link
[02:43] <Joel_re> I am looking at the right datasheet though
[02:44] <Darkside> right
[02:44] Last message repeated 1 time(s).
[02:44] <Darkside> VCC_IO neds to be conncted to VCC
[02:44] <ike> Joel_re how much does it cost in US dollars
[02:44] <ike> so IO output to module TX pin?
[02:44] <Darkside> and V_BCKP neds to be either grounded, hooked to VCC, or hookd to a battery
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[02:45] <Joel_re> Darkside: oh ok
[02:45] <Joel_re> noted
[02:45] <Darkside> Joel_re: the VCC_IO one is probably most important
[02:45] <ike> Darkside can it be hooked to Vcc via 1n4148 diode and large cap?
[02:45] <Darkside> ike: no
[02:45] <Darkside> shush
[02:45] <ike> why?
[02:45] <Joel_re> ike: I got it for around 12USD
[02:46] <ike> Joel_re that is cheap
[02:46] Action: Joel_re goes back to eagle
[02:46] <Darkside> VCC_IO sets the output and input logic level voltages
[02:46] <ike> good score
[02:46] <Darkside> so you just set it to VCC
[02:46] <Darkside> Joel_re: in most of my designs i just connect pins 6,7,8 to VCC
[02:46] <ike> Darkside I mean for V_BCKP
[02:46] <Darkside> ike: oh right
[02:46] <Darkside> maybe
[02:46] <Darkside> i generally dont use it
[02:47] <ike> there are LDOs with ebable pin
[02:47] <Joel_re> Darkside: I'll do that
[02:47] <Darkside> i just wire it to VCC, since the gps is generally going to be on all the time anyway
[02:47] <Darkside> Joel_re: im not sure about RESET_N
[02:47] <ike> so you can power on and off module to save battery life
[02:47] <Darkside> ill have to check
[02:47] <Darkside> ike: yah, but in a HAB you may mov far enough that the ephemeris is invalid anyway
[02:47] <ike> you can set it to sleep mode too
[02:48] <Darkside> and you have to rewodnload it
[02:48] <Joel_re> ike: for a cheap camera look at the max808 spy cam
[02:48] <Joel_re> s/max//
[02:48] <Darkside> ike: the power saving modes work well enough anyway
[02:48] <Darkside> Joel_re: you mean the 808 gps jammers?
[02:48] <Darkside> :P
[02:49] <Joel_re> Darkside: no, these - http://www.chucklohr.com/808/index.shtml
[02:49] <Darkside> Upu found that out the hard way
[02:49] <Joel_re> they are cheap
[02:49] <Darkside> yes
[02:49] <Darkside> they act as gps jammers
[02:49] <Joel_re> woa?
[02:49] <Darkside> yep
[02:49] <Joel_re> how?
[02:49] <Darkside> at close range anyway
[02:49] <Darkside> probably a multiple of the clock
[02:49] <Darkside> harmonic*
[02:49] <Joel_re> oh damn, thanks
[02:50] <Joel_re> they are so cheap and light :\
[02:50] <Darkside> Joel_re: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s78/sh/d1024903-fac6-440a-b0de-2d28099b09b9/311cbfc37eb2218fde37cb5fc4a93018
[02:50] <ike> Joel_re if you have free pin then you can turn them on and off
[02:50] <Darkside> ike: not a good idea
[02:50] <Darkside> dont put it aywhre near your GPS
[02:50] <Darkside> if you want your GPS to work, that is
[02:50] <Joel_re> ike: thats what I planned
[02:51] <Joel_re> I was going to hook 3
[02:51] <Darkside> maybe in another box a few metres below
[02:51] <Joel_re> and use the uC to control them
[02:51] <Darkside> but also TEST TEST TEST
[02:51] <Joel_re> Darkside: thanks for the link
[02:51] <Darkside> its possible that not all of them act as GPS jammers
[02:51] <Darkside> some might be ok
[02:52] <Joel_re> I could check with my SDR usb dongle
[02:52] <ike> maybe if you GND them in copper foil
[02:52] <Darkside> no, check with the GPS
[02:52] <Darkside> thats what you care about
[02:52] <ike> GPS is -160dbm and your SDR is -70dbm
[02:52] <ike> get it
[02:52] <Darkside> pretty much
[02:52] <Joel_re> hmm ok, do I need ia GPS antenna?
[02:52] <Darkside> err
[02:53] <Darkside> on the gps, ys you do
[02:53] <Darkside> yes*
[02:53] <ike> that is not true
[02:53] <Darkside> uhh
[02:53] <Darkside> to get GPS lock you probably will
[02:53] <ike> if you fly to the satelites you don't need one
[02:53] <Joel_re> the MTK3339 recieves a lock inside my room
[02:53] <Darkside> well, to get *reiable* gps lock
[02:53] <Darkside> ike: thats not a usful suggestion
[02:53] <Darkside> Joel_re: the MTK3339 receiver probably has a patch antenna and a LNA, right?
[02:54] <Joel_re> Darkside: true
[02:54] <Darkside> so thats going to work much better inside
[02:54] <Darkside> the ublox module with a chip or helical antenna will be less sensitiv
[02:54] <Darkside> it'll work fine on a balloon of cours
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[02:54] <Darkside> but you may have troubles inside
[02:54] <Darkside> put it near a window
[02:55] <ike> Joel_re eat it: http://avrproject.ru/EB-500/GPS_Antennas_ApplicationNote-GPS-X-08014-.pdf
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[02:55] <Joel_re> thanks ike
[02:56] <Darkside> Joel_re: basically on a HAB you can gt away with a lot, as it will have a clear view of the sky
[02:56] <ike> so pins 9,8,7 and 6 shorted to Vcc
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[02:56] <Darkside> somthing like that
[02:56] <Darkside> whatever i had on my schematic
[02:56] <ike> guys here use chip
[02:56] <Darkside> yah, the chip antnnas work fine for a HAB
[02:56] <Darkside> wont get lock inside though
[02:56] <ike> it's small and do it's job in the sky
[02:57] <Darkside> small and *light*
[02:57] <Darkside> those sarantel geohelix antennas are a good 7g or so
[02:57] <Darkside> which is horribly heavy for a pico payload
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[02:58] <ike> Darkside can you use "long wire" antenna?
[02:58] <Darkside> for GPS?
[02:59] <Darkside> there wouldnt be any benefit
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[02:59] <Joel_re> do I need to hook all GND?
[03:00] <Darkside> Joel_re: yes
[03:00] <Joel_re> oh hrm, I thought any one of them would do
[03:00] <Darkside> pcb layout matters for this
[03:00] <Darkside> in some respects anyway
[03:00] <Darkside> ill try and find an exampl
[03:01] <Joel_re> Im thinking I'll include a PCB antenna in the board
[03:01] <Darkside> https://www.evernote.com/shard/s78/sh/06481a84-48dc-40a8-9d82-95ecd042d49b/9e59036d26c4a67cb6d139a582a2a0ba
[03:01] <Darkside> nah
[03:01] <Darkside> just use a chip antenna
[03:01] <Darkside> smaller
[03:01] <Darkside> and easier to get right
[03:01] <Joel_re> ok, thanks for the link
[03:01] <ike> smaller and better
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[03:02] <ike> Darkside did you impedance match you antenna trace?
[03:02] <Darkside> nope
[03:03] <Darkside> for the 3mm it goes it doesnt make much difference
[03:03] <ike> what if you make it 1mm will it be better
[03:03] <Darkside> maybe
[03:03] <ike> how does gnd plane affect chip antenna?
[03:03] <Darkside> but then it gets more difficult to solder
[03:03] <Darkside> you dont want a ground plane under the chip antenna
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[03:03] <Darkside> the datasheet for it shows the appropriate layout
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[03:04] <ike> several days ago you said someting about IQ chip
[03:04] <ike> that don't have 90* phase
[03:04] <ike> so can you use only I data with the half bandwith?
[03:05] <Darkside> i guess you could
[03:05] <Darkside> bit of a waste though
[03:05] <Darkside> btter to find an IQ demodulator that works at the frequency
[03:06] <Darkside> right, im off
[03:06] <ike> well if you can get it to work
[03:07] <ike> then you can use it's usable half
[03:08] <Joel_re> do you guys recommend any specific chip antenna?
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[03:09] <ike> Upu's
[03:09] <Joel_re> its probably easier for me to build Dipole Antenna
[03:09] <Joel_re> than to source a chip antenna
[03:10] <ike> http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_65&product_id=55
[03:10] <Joel_re> ok
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[03:11] <ike> Dipole Antennas are bad, m'key?
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[03:55] <ike> Joel_re did you get it working?
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[06:51] <jcoxon> hey wb8elk
[06:52] <Upu> morning all
[06:54] <wb8elk> Hi All
[06:54] <jcoxon> how is everything?
[06:55] <wb8elk> It's morning here but just barely
[06:55] <jcoxon> yes, very early for you
[06:55] <jcoxon> wb8elk, any launches coming up?
[06:56] <wb8elk> once all the blizzards and nasty weather calms down I'll try to send some payloads your way
[06:56] <Upu> its not exactly nice here
[06:56] <wb8elk> probably won't be able to fly anything this weekend...20 knot plus winds and extremely cold
[06:59] <Upu> I have a tracker hanging from a tree in the back garden, testing battery and I'm not going to get it back at this time
[06:59] <Upu> as its driving rain
[07:01] <wb8elk> It would ice over here....it was snowing earlier here in the deep South of the US, that is a rare event.
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[07:03] <Upu> I want it to snow, I put some winter tyres on my car and ever since its sat stubbornly above 8'C
[07:03] <wb8elk> Since I gave some small quadcopters as Christmas gifts this year, I came up with an interesting way to keep multiple foil balloons from reaching peak burst altitude during peak solar times.
[07:04] <wb8elk> There is a tiny quadcopter with about and ounce of lift that weighs 15 grams. My idea is to put one of these underneath multiple mylar balloons and have it automatically turn on (facing upside down) to pull the balloons below their peak altitude during the mid part of the day.
[07:05] <wb8elk> since that seems to be the time of day when foil balloons have the toughest time of it.
[07:06] <jcoxon> wb8elk, http://ivoryultimate.blogspot.co.uk/
[07:06] <wb8elk> If the Sun ever decides to show it's face again, I'll test it out to see if I can solar panel the tiny quadcopter.
[07:06] <jcoxon> scroll to the bottom
[07:07] <jcoxon> right work time, bbl
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[07:07] <wb8elk> I see that....I remember these folks flying but didn't realize they had a copter on it.
[07:07] <wb8elk> bye James
[07:08] <wb8elk> Time for bed here actually....see you all later and have a great New Year.
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[07:12] <Upu> interesting
[07:12] <Upu> right also work for me
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[07:40] <qyx_> have you seen this? http://www.batteryjunction.com/xeno-1-2aa-lithium-3-6v.html
[07:40] <qyx_> or any other thionyl chloride lithium batteries
[07:40] <qyx_> these from xeno are rated down to -55C
[07:41] <UpuWork> yeah
[07:41] <qyx_> although lower maximum current at low temperatures
[07:41] <UpuWork> http://ukhas.org.uk/ideas:power_supply
[07:41] <UpuWork> see top
[07:41] <UpuWork> Maximum Current: Continuous 30mA; Pulse 60mA
[07:41] <UpuWork> thats your issue
[07:42] <qyx_> ah
[07:43] <qyx_> the bulkier ones are capable of higher currents
[07:44] <qyx_> 9.2g xeno has Maximum Continuous Current
[07:44] <qyx_> 50mA
[07:44] <qyx_> the full AA version 100mA
[07:49] <UpuWork> its the usual thing though
[07:49] <UpuWork> you'll be better off with an Energizer Lithium
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[07:51] <qyx_> maybe sometimes in the future, i am just observer for now :P
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[07:54] <Darkside> i looked at those batteries ages ago
[07:54] <Darkside> mainly the ones by Saft
[07:55] <Darkside> there was a D cell size battery with a 15Ah capacity
[07:55] <Darkside> though max drain was around 30mA
[07:56] <qyx_> see XL-200F
[07:56] <qyx_> D size 16.5Ah
[07:56] <qyx_> 230mA
[07:56] <Darkside> weight?
[07:56] <qyx_> 92.5g
[07:57] <Darkside> right
[07:57] <Darkside> we get 21Ah of capacity from the same weight of energizer lithiums
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[07:57] <Darkside> so in terms of energy density, the energizer lithium AAs are still better
[07:57] <qyx_> at 3.6V?
[07:57] <Darkside> ahh no
[07:58] <Darkside> nevermind then :P
[07:58] <Darkside> that wins
[07:58] <Darkside> still, 92.5g is heavy
[07:58] <Darkside> might be suitable for a 1600g floater
[07:58] <qyx_> maybe, but at -40C they are capable of only 100mA
[07:58] <Darkside> mm
[07:58] <Darkside> th energizers dont lose capacity at -50 i believe
[07:59] <qyx_> don't know
[07:59] <qyx_> i was just searching for other things when i saw these
[07:59] <gurgalof> would be fun to measure the capacity in -50C
[07:59] <qyx_> there are graphs in the datasheet
[07:59] <qyx_> even at -30
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[08:01] <UpuWork> I suspect the temps the glider saw last weekend were giving the energizers some trouble
[08:01] <gurgalof> next time I'm playing with liquid nitrogen I will see how the energizer lithium performs in -196C :D
[08:01] <UpuWork> with think it got to -65
[08:02] <UpuWork> s/with/we
[08:02] <gurgalof> I could measure one in dry ice, -78C
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[08:23] <gurgalof> UpuWork: the SI4060 you used on your latest pAVA looks really neat, how well does it perform?
[08:25] <UpuWork> well Leo has tested them quite extensively
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[08:25] <UpuWork> and I know the 4464 variant has been used in cubesats
[08:25] <UpuWork> so yeah it works :)
[08:25] <UpuWork> Its also the core of the new NTX2B
[08:28] <gurgalof> ah, sweet I will try one out
[08:29] <gurgalof> I'm still going to use a rfm22b on my first tracker, but my second one will probably be with a si4060
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[08:32] <gurgalof> I'm afraid I'll be addicted to launching picos :D
[08:32] <UpuWork> well RFM22B does work
[08:32] <UpuWork> but its end of life
[08:34] <gurgalof> 100mW and they are cheap, it's a little sad they're EOL
[08:35] <gurgalof> since I'm in a country that allows amateur radio in the air I can transmit at full power
[08:36] <eroomde> whack a PA infront
[08:36] <UpuWork> well
[08:36] <UpuWork> just watch 100mW
[08:36] <Darkside> its not very clean at 100mW
[08:36] <UpuWork> they do wobble a bit under full power
[08:36] <eroomde> i know it's been done a few times in the UK on the down-low
[08:36] <Darkside> dat second harmonic
[08:36] <Darkside> also yes, the heat from the PA causes bad drift
[08:36] <Darkside> gurgalof: what country?
[08:36] <gurgalof> Sweden
[08:36] <Darkside> aha
[08:36] <Darkside> sveden
[08:37] <eroomde> excellent, more swedes is a good thing
[08:37] <eroomde> more balloons are heading your way
[08:37] <eroomde> gurgalof: where in sweden?
[08:37] <gurgalof> gothenburg
[08:37] <eroomde> I was in uppsala for a bit
[08:37] <eroomde> and liked it a lot
[08:38] <daveake> I'll be in Landskrona in a couple of weeks
[08:39] <gurgalof> I've been in UK once, Glasgow/Scottland
[08:39] <eroomde> ah, gothenburg is also excellent located for intercepting north-sea habs
[08:39] <eroomde> gurgalof: just the once was enough huh
[08:39] <gurgalof> I will put up an antenna as soon I'll move to my own apartment in april
[08:40] <gurgalof> eroomde: nah, just haven't traveled so much
[08:41] <eroomde> it was a glascow joke
[08:41] <eroomde> :)
[08:41] <gurgalof> ah, I didn't get it
[08:42] <eroomde> so are you a radio ham?
[08:42] <gurgalof> yes
[08:43] <eroomde> cool
[08:48] <eroomde> hivemind/lazyweb/whatever: I'm looking to get a tv in my life. I want a 32" one with decent pictures and ideally >=3 HDMI connections, and i really don't care about the rest, and especially don't care about any built-in medium-hub type stuff, as I'll build an external one. But i would like a freeview tuner. Can anyone recommend anything?
[08:50] <daveake> They'll all have freeview now. I think most will have >=3 HDMI but that's worth checking.
[08:50] <daveake> We went for a Sony because at the time* it had the best internet stuff (iPlayer etc)
[08:50] <daveake> *this situation changes monthly
[08:50] <eroomde> yes, and also i'm less interested in any of the built-in stuff
[08:51] <eroomde> we have a 'smart' lg tv at work with loads of apps, but you can't use a keyboard with it
[08:51] <eroomde> at all
[08:51] <daveake> Get one with >3 HDMI, decent price and good picture.
[08:51] <daveake> Slap a Pi on the back if you want internet stuff
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[08:51] <eroomde> so if you want to search for something on youtube, you have to move the cursor around a virtual keyboard with the arrow pad and hit enter to press a letter
[08:51] <eroomde> it makes me want to end someone's life
[08:51] <daveake> Yes ours is like that
[08:51] <daveake> apalling
[08:51] <eroomde> i will just get a media box instead
[08:51] <daveake> Hence we don't use yt on it
[08:52] <daveake> also the YT search is completely broken
[08:52] <eroomde> i'm going to try a roku box and Plex, I think
[08:52] <daveake> The life of a TV is way longer than the useful life of the s/w on it
[08:52] <daveake> So separate the tv and the s/w stuff
[08:53] <eroomde> yep
[08:54] <daveake> We sometimes play mp3s through ours, but the pi is better at that anyway. Only "media" thing we use it for is iplayer, which it does tolerably well
[08:55] <eroomde> mmm, ok
[08:55] <daveake> i.e. it plays just fine but selection is slow
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[09:07] <gurgalof> TV? I call them big computer screens
[09:09] <fsphil> VDU
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[09:39] <LeoBodnar> http://www.elektor.com/news/the-tiniest-gps-receiver-chip.2640946.lynkx
[09:40] <LeoBodnar> This is RL so it probably dies at -20C or is limited to 50m altitude and/or walking speed
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[09:43] <LeoBodnar> Requires 16.369MHz external clock lol
[09:44] <gurgalof> supersmall, but requires external components
[09:44] <fsphil> no mention of altitude in the datasheet
[09:46] <LeoBodnar> The SE880 receiver will lose track if any of the following limits are exceeded: · ITAR limits: velocity greater than 514 m/s AND altitude above 18,288 m · altitude: 24,000 m (max) or -500 m (min) · velocity: 600 m/s (max)
[09:46] <LeoBodnar> Not bad
[09:46] <LeoBodnar> but power consumption is same as MAX7
[09:47] <LeoBodnar> if not more
[09:47] <LeoBodnar> I wonder if it is as braindead as UBLOXes
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[09:49] <fsphil> 24km, fine for picos then
[09:49] <fsphil> external components may mean it takes up more space than the very tiny ublox chips
[09:50] <LeoBodnar> It has SPI! Mother of God!
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[09:52] <LeoBodnar> Problem with UBLOX is not the size but its total unpredictable weirdness
[09:53] <craag> oh?
[09:53] <gurgalof> whats weird with the ubloxes?
[09:56] <LeoBodnar> Hot start does not work to start from.
[09:56] <ike> are not all modules with the same chipset?
[09:57] <LeoBodnar> "Power save mode" suddenly interspersed with it waking up and killing your batteries
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> Sometimes it just randomly dies
[09:58] <craag> Hmm I did some playing with hot start through ucenter and it didn't seem nearly as fast as advertised to re-fix.
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> Can't be conformal coated
[09:58] <LeoBodnar> I2C has bugs
[09:58] <craag> Is there a GPS that can start up without killing your batteries though?
[09:59] <LeoBodnar> No errata from manufacturer (=bugs are not published)
[10:00] <ike> craag maybe if you have several 22uF smd caps and some smd inductions
[10:00] <LeoBodnar> Hot start is advertised to provide fix "within 1-2 seconds"
[10:00] <craag> ike: Not when it pulls it for several seconds..
[10:01] <LeoBodnar> This is what you get for attempting to use hot-start: http://leobodnar.com/balloons/B-11/2.png
[10:01] <craag> Yes, took a good 20-30 seconds for hot-start for me. I assumed it was due to my environment..
[10:01] <craag> oh ouch
[10:01] <craag> Looks like it reported it had lock before it actually did.
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> It reports 7 sats and <20m accuracy when it does that
[10:02] <ike> aren't those some 2d locks
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> forced 3D lock
[10:02] <ike> and it asume sea level for the module
[10:02] <LeoBodnar> airborne mode
[10:03] <craag> Sounds like you and the ublox dev team need to have a sit down and have a talk Leo!
[10:03] <LeoBodnar> Same problem had by KT5TK, DL7AD, SP9UOB
[10:03] <ike> maybe they never flyed HABs
[10:04] <craag> I've had some power-save weirdness with it reporting a dip in altitude as it accelerates upwards.
[10:04] <craag> matt had the same thing on one of his.
[10:04] <craag> ah that was max6 though.
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> I don't mind it saying no lock instead of providing rubbish data backed up by valid lock and sensible DOP
[10:05] <craag> Yeah...
[10:05] <LeoBodnar> MAX7 is just as bad
[10:05] <craag> How have you fixed that since? Just waited a bit after lock?
[10:06] <LeoBodnar> Stopped using hot-start
[10:06] <craag> ok
[10:06] <gurgalof> this is good stuff to know
[10:06] <craag> Speaking of which, I need to do a side-by-side of MAX6/7 for matt. He can't get MAX7s to get a lock at all.
[10:07] <LeoBodnar> Sometimes it won't lock for 10-15 minutes. Then after restart locks onto 7 sats within 40 seconds
[10:08] <LeoBodnar> It's just wild
[10:08] <Darkside> LeoBodnar: ahh yah, i;'ve had the rubbish data from the MAX-7's too
[10:08] <Darkside> i only gate data when theres >5 sats
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[10:13] <craag> LeoBodnar: Have you had much contact with ublox support?
[10:15] <LeoBodnar> Not really, I am afraid this will be just a waste of time. If anything half-decent comes along I'm jumping the UBLOX ship.
[10:16] <craag> Fair enough
[10:17] <LeoBodnar> UBLOX headline power consumption seems decent at <5mA in power save mode, but it then for no reason wakes up and consumes 50mA for 30 minutes.
[10:18] <craag> ah ok
[10:18] <craag> didn't realise it did that :O
[10:18] <LeoBodnar> Yeah, if you run it for days it is really very frustrating
[10:18] <craag> That must be infuriating
[10:19] <LeoBodnar> So even supercap won't help much
[10:19] <craag> mm
[10:19] <LeoBodnar> to get over sudden increase in power consumption
[10:19] <Laurenceb> hi
[10:19] <Laurenceb> or use se4110 + stm32f4
[10:20] <Laurenceb> but thats a lot of code
[10:20] <LeoBodnar> make something and I'll buy it :D
[10:21] <LeoBodnar> our GPS needs are really not what GPS manufacturers mostly cater for
[10:21] <Laurenceb> yeah
[10:22] <Laurenceb> that FFT code i linked looks good
[10:22] <Laurenceb> very good
[10:22] <Laurenceb> i dont know where that guy gets his documentation from, he seems to know some nifty arm cortex tricks
[10:22] <craag> I've just built a new board for work with a MAX7 on it... hopefully our needs aren't nearly extreme enough to hit any of these bugs.
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[10:24] <Laurenceb> http://www.embeddedsignals.com/ARM.htm
[10:25] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb: have you asked him?
[10:25] <bertrik> craag: anything new about it? is it a pico board?
[10:26] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: no
[10:26] <Laurenceb> i guess its common knowledge if you do that kind of work
[10:26] <Laurenceb> avoiding pipline stalls and stuff
[10:26] <SpeedEvil> Probably - perhaps worth a go, maybe there is some decent reference source he's using other than just 20 years.
[10:27] <craag> bertrik: It's for a boring terrestrial application :)
[10:28] <Laurenceb> you could easily do a full wake up -> aquire -> fix cycle in less than 5ms with those routines
[10:28] <Laurenceb> and only drawing <40mA at 1.8v
[10:30] <SpeedEvil> comedically insane.
[10:30] <Laurenceb> with goodish sat configuration it should be <50m CEP
[10:35] <Laurenceb> annoyingly to be super fast it needs a radix 4 or radix8 prune function writing
[10:36] <Laurenceb> http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~franzf/papers/icassp09.pdf <- this stuff
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[10:36] <Laurenceb> then you can use the high sample rate se4110 data without it using the full 8Mhz bandwidth
[10:37] <SpeedEvil> Mmmm. Radishes.
[10:37] <Laurenceb> but keep the high pseudorange resolution that the high sample rate gives you
[10:37] <Laurenceb> lol
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[10:39] <SpeedEvil> Skimming the first page says 'pruned' = good. Does it keep you regular? Is this a fast way of computing a FFT if you don't care about some frequency components?
[10:39] <Laurenceb> yes, thats the idea
[10:40] <Laurenceb> you remove some of the butterfly operations
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> Why is this better than simply sampling at the right rate?
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> Or do the bits you don't care about not have to be in the middl
[10:42] <SpeedEvil> at the ends
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[10:44] <Laurenceb> it allows you to effectivly oversample
[10:44] <Laurenceb> so you get increased pseudorange resolution
[10:44] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
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[10:44] <SpeedEvil> Neat.
[10:45] <Laurenceb> i was thinking you could use the se4110 baseband at 8mhz bandwidth
[10:45] <Laurenceb> then radix8 prune eliminated 3 stages of radix2 butterfly
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> And I guess that gets you more SNR too
[10:45] <Laurenceb> and gives you 2Mhz bandwidth
[10:45] <Laurenceb> same as gps
[10:45] <Laurenceb> yeah
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> as you have anotehr 2 bits
[10:45] <SpeedEvil> Even jam resistance! :)
[10:46] <Laurenceb> then you run that asm code i linked over the 2mhz bandwidth
[10:46] <Laurenceb> then divide output by look up tabes for fft(PRN(sat(n)))
[10:46] <Laurenceb> which are gives circular shifts corresponding to the doppler
[10:47] <SpeedEvil> Stupid question.
[10:47] <Laurenceb> then reverse the process and find the lpeak for each sat
[10:47] <Laurenceb> *peak
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> If PRN sequence frequency distribution is 'white' down to lowish frequencies, does this mean that you can meaningfully correlate at 250khz say?
[10:48] <Laurenceb> doppler only needs to be accurate to 500Hz, so you procompute using last position and RTC
[10:48] <SpeedEvil> I should note I've not had coffee yet.
[10:48] <Laurenceb> hmm interesting idea
[10:48] <Laurenceb> i hadnt thought of that one
[10:49] <Laurenceb> note that my plan fails for really fast stuff in the jet stream
[10:49] <Laurenceb> as it has >500hz receiver velocity doppler
[10:50] <Laurenceb> but its perfect for pico
[10:50] <SpeedEvil> Can you pick the right sats?
[10:50] <Laurenceb> yes
[10:50] <Laurenceb> just use last known position and RTC, pass it to libswiftnav and out pop the PRN numbers and elevations
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[10:51] <SpeedEvil> Is the failute because the velocity spread exceeds the expected
[10:51] <Laurenceb> it also gives yyou their positions in ECEF coordinates and velocities in 3 axis
[10:51] <SpeedEvil> and therefore the fft runs out of room
[10:51] <Laurenceb> its because the FFT is misaligned by one bin or more
[10:52] <Laurenceb> so you divide by the wrong elements of the lookup table to deconvolve
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> Isn't that only an issue if you don't know the velocity?
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[10:53] <Laurenceb> yeah
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[10:53] <SpeedEvil> Oh - you're running out of tracking range in the asm?
[10:53] <Laurenceb> i was assuming uber simple code
[10:53] <SpeedEvil> And you'd need to significantly complicate the code to 'switch' in the middle of a cycle
[10:54] <Laurenceb> no - its just the 1 or 2ms aquisition doesnt give you velocity
[10:54] <Laurenceb> so oyu dont know the velocity
[10:54] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[10:54] <Laurenceb> unless velocity ramps up and dwon slowly
[10:54] <ike> isn't velocity delta distance/ delta time
[10:54] <SpeedEvil> Wait - this is for cold acquisitions?
[10:54] <Laurenceb> then you can differentiate
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[10:55] <Laurenceb> its for "assisted" picoballoon aquisition
[10:55] <Laurenceb> where you have RTC, semi accurate position and almanac
[10:55] <LeoBodnar> Have you prototyped this in HW yet Laurenceb ?
[10:56] <Laurenceb> i have se4120 board giving me FFT fixes with gnu octave code
[10:56] <Laurenceb> using 1ms of data
[10:56] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't it only matter in the case of unexpected large deltla-V though?
[10:56] <SpeedEvil> oh - right
[10:56] <Laurenceb> i can see 7 or 8 sats poking it out of the window
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[10:57] <Laurenceb> i still need to try the position solver
[10:57] <Laurenceb> but apparently its numerically stable
[10:57] <Laurenceb> as theres a few papers discussing this technique
[10:58] <Laurenceb> and you can use libswiftnav to do the heavy lifting
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[10:58] <LeoBodnar> Do you have the links to the se4120 ?
[10:58] <SpeedEvil> Libswiftnav is just the whole almanac/SV velocity/multilateration/coordinates bit?
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[11:08] <LeoBodnar> Is velocity data in a GPS receiver derived from position integration or Doppler shifts?
[11:08] <LeoBodnar> Doppler shift accuracy would be too rough for that possibly?
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[11:09] <SpeedEvil> It depends.
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> In better recievers, both.
[11:09] <SpeedEvil> Doppler can be exceedingly fine.
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> It's quite possible to get speed rather better than position
[11:10] <SpeedEvil> especially if you can for example add in accellerometer data
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[11:10] <Laurenceb> so many questions
[11:10] <Laurenceb> SpeedEvil: yeah libswiftnav eats almanac data
[11:11] <Laurenceb> http://www.adafruit.com/products/1652
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[11:15] <SpeedEvil> Interesting
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[11:17] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb: have you used SIGe devkit or whipped your own?
[11:17] <LeoBodnar> THis seems exceedingly interesting
[11:18] <Laurenceb> devkit
[11:18] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: there is a similar maxim-ic part
[11:18] <LeoBodnar> So frontend outputs 1 or 2 bit data at 1Mbps?
[11:18] <Laurenceb> http://ccar.colorado.edu/gnss/images/M1.jpg
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[11:18] <Laurenceb> 2 bit (i.e. I and Q) at 8Msps
[11:19] <Laurenceb> newer version of the same thing: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10981
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> WHoa $3 chip explodes into $450 devboard
[11:21] <Laurenceb> lol
[11:21] <LeoBodnar> I am looking at SE4110 block diagram it has MAG and SIGN logical outputs
[11:22] <Laurenceb> yeah, it has 2 bit adc
[11:22] <Laurenceb> the 4120 board only gives you the SIGN
[11:22] <Laurenceb> there is always http://swift-nav.com/piksi.html
[11:22] <Laurenceb> but not exactly pico friendly
[11:22] <LeoBodnar> sampled at 16.368
[11:22] <Laurenceb> http://store.swift-nav.com/s.nl/it.A/id.4734/.f
[11:24] <LeoBodnar> Low power consumption - 500mW typical oO
[11:25] <Laurenceb> low mass too
[11:25] <Laurenceb> /jk
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[11:28] <LeoBodnar> So 4110 does not have separate I/Q ?
[11:28] <Laurenceb> its just terminology
[11:29] <Laurenceb> 4110 is I,Q, -I,-Q,I,Q,-I etc
[11:29] <Laurenceb> so an XOR fixes it
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[11:30] <Laurenceb> as 4110 uses 4Mhz baseband
[11:30] <LeoBodnar> ah
[11:30] <Laurenceb> 4120 is basically same device with very subtly different DSP
[11:31] <Laurenceb> i suspect they dropped the 4120 as 4110 and 4150 are compatible with the other gps frontends
[11:31] <Laurenceb> annoyingly the infenion, atmel and st stuff is impossible to buy
[11:32] <Laurenceb> and the maxim thing piksi uses is different again
[11:33] <LeoBodnar> is 4150 better?
[11:33] <Laurenceb> as the FFT code is 16bit fixed point throughout, incorporating the MAG and SIGN should be easyish
[11:33] <LeoBodnar> it has lower noise figures
[11:33] <Laurenceb> 4150 has buit in RF switch
[11:34] <Laurenceb> so you can have external antenni port
[11:34] <Laurenceb> aiui it uses slightly more current
[11:34] <Laurenceb> the noise figures are good on 4110 and 4150, virtually nothing in it
[11:36] <SpeedEvil> Sticker shock - when you realise a column in a parametric selector is dollars, not milliwatts.
[11:38] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ti.com/product/adc12d1800rf - madness. 3.6GHz 12 bit.
[11:38] <Laurenceb> wow
[11:39] <Laurenceb> ultra wideband time
[11:39] <LeoBodnar> SpeedEvil reactivity in nuclear reaction also measured in dollars
[11:42] <SpeedEvil> I was idly wondering about direct GPS sampling. (with none of this downconverter rubbish) -
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[11:44] <LeoBodnar> ADC power consumption is 4W+ hehe
[11:45] <ike> so there are files like MTK14.EPO that give you EPO (Extended Prediction Orbit) for the next 14 days
[11:45] <ike> so if you have that file you can lock faster
[11:46] <Laurenceb> ike: yeah thats what i was thinking
[11:46] <ike> and I have current MTK14.EPO file valid for 14 days
[11:46] <Laurenceb> faster is an understatement
[11:47] <Laurenceb> "instantly"
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> You can ideally do 500us or so
[11:47] <ike> but they are just "predicted"
[11:47] <SpeedEvil> With just a reasonable idea of time, and lots of CPU.
[11:48] <ike> gps modules do that in background
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> GPS satellites don't manoever much
[11:48] <Laurenceb> yeah
[11:48] <ike> and they don't have a lots of CPU, just some asic
[11:48] <Laurenceb> you could probably get ~100m accuracy "forever"
[11:48] <SpeedEvil> ike: GPS modules also generally use quite a lot of power, for some definitions of 'lot'
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[12:21] <DL1SGP> Hi all!
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[15:01] <Lowerstoford> Join
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[15:01] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: around?
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[15:01] <Laurenceb> yes
[15:01] <adamgreig> looking to do heart rate detection. probably easiest tool to hand is phone with camera and flash LED on
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[15:01] <adamgreig> got a thing working by just taking the average image intensity for each frame, differentiating and FFT
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[15:02] <adamgreig> but it doesn't seem to quite get the right number and anyway feels a big kludgy
[15:02] <adamgreig> thought you might know something about this :P
[15:02] <adamgreig> https://randomskk.net/u/heartrate.html
[15:02] <Laurenceb> hmm maybe
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[15:02] <adamgreig> think my heart rate was more like 65 in that, but I get 75
[15:02] <Laurenceb> so non contact?
[15:02] <adamgreig> contact
[15:02] <adamgreig> finger pressed against camera lens
[15:02] <Laurenceb> ah
[15:02] <adamgreig> flash LED on, also shining into finger
[15:03] <adamgreig> definitely something in the signal that looks like heart rate
[15:03] <Laurenceb> nIjIyEiEhIUhKSsKuXbtw1113Qa/XY/369W60lLn33nvxyy+/aFrWy8sLZ8+edWk/zz77LEJDQ9G8eXOX1hds8+6772LIkCHuNkMQBA/m5MmTaNiwIUJCQjBnzhyXtmHdVn333XeoWrUq9Ho9Dh06dEf2cSfp3LkzFi9erGnZmJgYbNu2rZAtunMsXboUjzzyiLvN0A4JxYY2bdpQ+fLlKTMz092mFJjJkydT//793W1GvlSrVo22bt2qadk2bdrQ/PnzC9kiS3bs2EFVqlQp0n0KQkmkWrVqFBAQQHq9nsqVK0ctW7akzz77jHJzc20un5WVRQEBAXTkyBHjZ+3bt6ePPvqoqEy2YNCgQTRx4kSX19fpdHTmzBmn1/vll1+oSpUqlJ6ebvP7hQsX0gMPPOCyXUWFM+1zQc+1K/z777+k0+nIYDAU
[15:03] <Laurenceb> 6X4Fz0C1b8HBwRQcHEx6vZ4uXbrkbrOKnPnz59Pdd99Ner2eIiMjqXPnzpSSklJo+ysJz+3gwYNpzJgxdr9v06YN+fv7k16vp5CQEGrSpAm99957Dn2NGjVq0Pr16zXvozApqD8RExND27Zts/mdM78F7vJrXP1tLyokIqGYEBcXh7179yIiIqJQRsJycnLu+DYdodPpinR/rqLT6TTbWlKOSRBKIzqdDhs3bkRycjLOnz+P119/HdOnT8dzzz1nc/nLly8jIyMDderUMX52/vx51K1b16X9GwwGl9ZzN+fOnUNMTAz8/f3dbUqBcKYtdydE5G4ThBKIat9SUlKQkpKC5ORkVKxY0WKZou7nFTU7d+7EhAkTsHz5ciQnJ+P48eN46qmnimTfjp5bd7f9586dc/i7pdPp8MknnyA5ORmXL1/GzJkzs
[15:03] <Laurenceb> Xz5cnTu3Nnm8kSU57cwv304ojjfl/K7cQdwr44hKKZOnUrdunWjt99+m7p27UpERBkZGVS2bFk6evSocbmrV69SQEAAXbt2jYiINmzYQA0aNDCOwB0+fNi4bLVq1Wj69OlUr1498vf3p5ycHHr33XepZs2apNfrqW7duvTdd98ZlzcYDDRmzBgKDw+n6tWr08cff2yhxN68eZMGDx5MUVFRVLlyZZo4caJdldZaudPpdPTpp59SbGws6fV6mjRpEp0+fZqaN29OZcuWpT59+lBWVhYRESUlJVGXLl2oQoUKVL58eeratStdvHjRuK2zZ89S69atSa/XU4cOHWj48OEW+9q9eze1aNGCypUrRw0aNKCff/7Z7nk3VyoXLlxIrVq1oldeeYXKly9P1atXp82bNxMR0RtvvEHe3t7k7+9PwcHBNHLkSC
[15:03] <Laurenceb> IiOn78OHXo0IFCQ0Opdu3atHLlSuO2Bw0aRMOHD6cuXbqQXq+nZs2aWaiKo0aNooiICAoJCaF69erRsWPHjOtNnDiRbt++Tf7+/uTl5WUcgUhISKCAgAC6ceOGcTv79++nChUqUE5Ojt3jFARPx9aow969e8nLyyvPs3Xq1CkKDAwknU5HwcHB1L59e6pZsyZ5eXkZoxqysrIctnkLFy6kli1b0ujRoyksLIwmTZpEmZmZNHbsWIqOjqbIyEgaNmyYcaR/x44dVLlyZZo5cyZFRERQVFQULVy4kIiIPv/8c/
[15:03] <Laurenceb> sheeet
[15:03] <Laurenceb> sorry
[15:03] <Laurenceb> yes it looks like heartbeat to me
[15:04] <Laurenceb> the frequency spectrum looks noisy
[15:04] <adamgreig> seems like there might be a better way to get the frequency. and also not sure if perhaps I Should be doing a different transfrom
[15:04] <adamgreig> yea it looks real noisy, probably because of the differentiation I guess
[15:04] <Laurenceb> maybe try some better filtering
[15:04] <adamgreig> mm
[15:04] <adamgreig> wondering if I should use just one channel too instead of the intensity, or what
[15:04] <Laurenceb> id try a bandpass filter
[15:04] <Laurenceb> yeah and use green
[15:04] <adamgreig> would be lower computational intensity if nothing else
[15:04] <adamgreig> green huh?
[15:05] <Laurenceb> yeah
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[15:05] <adamgreig> how come?
[15:05] <Laurenceb> or if you want to be clever, using adaptive noise cancelling
[15:05] <Laurenceb> green has highest modulation depthg
[15:05] <adamgreig> interesting. ok
[15:05] <adamgreig> will swap to just green
[15:05] <adamgreig> could do adaptive noise cancelling
[15:05] <Laurenceb> so use green as signal, others as signal + noise
[15:05] <adamgreig> wanna write this up as an online thing in java for android eventually
[15:05] <Laurenceb> and put it into adaptive noise cancelling
[15:06] <Laurenceb> then use a bandpass FIR filter
[15:06] <Laurenceb> then use FFT with a windowing function
[15:06] <Laurenceb> and some smarter peak finder
[15:06] <Laurenceb> rather than just max
[15:06] <adamgreig> probably something checking harmonics
[15:06] <adamgreig> if I keep using differentiation
[15:06] <Laurenceb> that too
[15:06] <adamgreig> not sure I should really be differentiating
[15:06] <Laurenceb> its not a good plan
[15:06] <adamgreig> could do a harmonic product spectrum or something
[15:07] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:07] <adamgreig> reckon FFT definitely way to go? nice if it could be more online and less batched
[15:07] <Laurenceb> its goodish
[15:07] <adamgreig> STFT is an option I guess but edge effects of window functions get worse
[15:07] <adamgreig> count zero crossings :P
[15:08] <Laurenceb> maybe just a rolling window FFT
[15:08] <Laurenceb> lol
[15:08] <adamgreig> rolling fft probably good plan
[15:08] <adamgreig> over like 5s or so
[15:08] <adamgreig> at 30fps that should be big enough
[15:08] <Laurenceb> yeah
[15:08] <adamgreig> then do the harmonic analysis on the fft output to find the fundamental
[15:09] <adamgreig> cool
[15:09] <adamgreig> sounds suitably more-sophisticated if nothing else
[15:09] <adamgreig> thanks!
[15:09] <Laurenceb> np
[15:09] <adamgreig> gonna hook it to the RGB lightstrip in my living room >.>
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[15:23] <Babs_> adamgreig - there is an iphone app that does exactly what you are trying to achieve. I have no idea how hackable an app is, you guys are smarter than me on that kind of thing, but it also has a trace graph on it that you could use as a comparator for the signals you are picking up
[15:23] <Babs_> its called heart rate (cryptically enough)
[15:24] <adamgreig> yea there's an whole range of android apps that do this
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[15:25] <Babs_> i thought you probably knew that, but i didnt think there was any harm in highlighting it
[15:25] <Babs_> :-)
[15:25] <adamgreig> sure :)
[15:25] <adamgreig> I have indeed been using the android one to compare my work against :P
[15:28] <Babs_> when i first saw it i thought it was a really nice piece of lateral thinking to use the led
[15:28] <Babs_> but it (or at least the app i use) is not perfect in terms of detection
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[15:35] <eroomde> drove to london and back again, v miserable
[15:35] <eroomde> the weather, rather than me
[15:36] <adamgreig> SO bad
[15:36] <adamgreig> was woken by hail on my window
[15:36] <adamgreig> oh well
[15:36] <adamgreig> house still a bomb site after nye party. not quite brought myself to tidy yet
[15:36] <eroomde> i'm gonna buy a tv tomorrow
[15:36] <eroomde> and try some of your stuff
[15:37] <eroomde> however i might get the roku on which the now box is based, because it has ethernet, and, say reports, can be a bit happier streaming lower compression 1080p stuff
[15:37] <eroomde> not that I have a huge amount of that, but the price difference is pretty low now
[15:38] <eroomde> i'm getting it tomorrow so I can watch sherlock in oxford. sherlock is my coronation
[15:39] <adamgreig> yea the roku would be better
[15:39] <adamgreig> basically
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[15:39] <adamgreig> only got now tv as it was soo cheap
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[15:39] <adamgreig> and also figured it might be nice to get the sky stuff
[15:39] <eroomde> yeah, 2 pints inc p&p
[15:40] <adamgreig> on balance though i'd get a roku
[15:40] <adamgreig> seen the first new sherlock i take it?
[15:40] <eroomde> y
[15:40] <adamgreig> good good
[15:40] <adamgreig> i bought a tv license
[15:40] <adamgreig> at 8:56
[15:40] <adamgreig> just for it
[15:40] <eroomde> nice
[15:41] <eroomde> i must remember to do that bit
[15:41] <adamgreig> though also good for sunday and next week's episodes
[15:41] <adamgreig> and new dr who whenever that starts
[15:41] <adamgreig> probably that is all I will use it for
[15:41] <adamgreig> but oh well
[15:41] <adamgreig> normally I'd just wait for it to hit iplayer but had friends round and didn't want to wait til like 2230 for it to be online
[15:42] <adamgreig> have since downloaded the hd version from iplayer anyway :P
[15:42] <adamgreig> trying to remember how to do adaptive filtering with normalised least mean squares, vaguely recall doing this last year, hah
[15:44] <eroomde> it does sort of ring a bell as a sumeet thing
[15:44] <eroomde> don't remember if they were normalised
[15:44] <adamgreig> yea i'm sure i saw him draw a diagram with signal and signal+noise or whatever
[15:44] <adamgreig> and you can remove the noise
[15:44] <eroomde> but i think there was something about making it independant to the scale of the input
[15:44] <adamgreig> I think it's his "interference cancellation"
[15:44] <adamgreig> looking at my revision notes for it
[15:45] <adamgreig> they are very colourful
[15:45] <eroomde> similarly that was mackay's complaint about why PCA is shit
[15:45] <adamgreig> think i had too many coloured gel pens then
[15:45] <eroomde> that the answer depends on the scale of the inputs
[15:45] <adamgreig> maybe I should just do bayes on it
[15:45] <adamgreig> OH particle filters being described as "throwing the bayesian sledgehammer at the problem"
[15:45] <adamgreig> suspect my phone won't be happy running online particle filters
[15:46] <eroomde> depends :)
[15:46] <eroomde> like, you can do a useful class of problem with them now with few particles and few dimensions
[15:47] <eroomde> 'where am i in this room given all my rangefinder readings'
[15:47] <adamgreig> it seems like what I want is a noise-robust detection/estimation, rather than trying to filter and then detect
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[15:52] <gurgalof> here in Sweden we have to pay TV license for owning a computer with internet connection or a smartphone with data plan or a regular TV
[15:52] <eroomde> we don't
[15:52] <eroomde> just for watching live tv broadcasts
[15:53] <gurgalof> lucky you
[15:53] <eroomde> yep
[15:54] <jphoglund> in .fi it's included in taxes
[15:54] <jphoglund> so everyone pays :I
[15:55] <bertrik> I think we have to pay taxes for every storage device, including mobile phones and HDDs, in .nl
[15:56] <gurgalof> bertrik: we do it in .se too
[15:56] <bertrik> like E8,- on top of the price for a mobile phone
[15:56] <adamgreig> do the taxes go to the government or to media companies?
[15:56] <gurgalof> media companies
[15:56] <adamgreig> that seems outrageous
[15:56] <adamgreig> would be another matter if it went to the government
[15:57] <adamgreig> is piracy legal? :P
[15:57] <gurgalof> nope
[15:57] <bertrik> downloading music is legal in .nl, but not uploading
[15:57] <adamgreig> so you'll get prosecuted for pirating content, but also, you have to pay for storage devices on the assumption you will pirate content?
[15:57] <gurgalof> adamgreig: something like that
[15:58] <adamgreig> :(
[15:58] <eroomde> ok, bought the tv
[15:58] <eroomde> can pick it up from the currys 10 miles away in 1hr
[15:58] <eroomde> that was painless
[15:59] <Babs_> eroomde, do you have a home media server?
[15:59] <gonzo__> 'Home taping is killing the music industry', wasn't that their cry in the 80's?
[15:59] <adamgreig> what tv?
[15:59] <adamgreig> that is quite convenient
[15:59] <eroomde> Babs_: going to get one
[15:59] <adamgreig> just bought a new drive for my media server
[15:59] <eroomde> adamgreig: Samsung UE32F5000
[15:59] <adamgreig> nice 3TB one
[16:00] <gonzo__> didn't that slap a tax on cassettes?
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[16:01] <eroomde> Babs_: i'll probably get a Roku box, and install Plex on it
[16:01] <Babs_> well, i say "home media server", I mean one of those seagate homeflex thangs
[16:01] <eroomde> I further want to get an HP Microserver and stuff it with drives as a NAS
[16:01] <eroomde> and that can feed the plex box
[16:02] <Babs_> I got sonos for Christmas, spotify premium and hooked up the seagate thing that I had had lying around for 6 months and NOW I CAN TAKE OVER THE WORLD
[16:02] <Babs_> (in a media fashion)
[16:03] <Babs_> I quite fancied a Roku, not least because I am going to be banished to the basement soon and there isn't an aerial point down there
[16:03] <eroomde> why?
[16:03] <Babs_> and (I think) it can basically punt the feed from the skybox up in the lounge down there
[16:03] <Babs_> I got the wife pregnant
[16:03] <eroomde> careless, but congratulations!
[16:03] <Babs_> Poor the Babs. Hail the Babs.
[16:04] <eroomde> baby babbington
[16:04] <Babs_> Thanks! But I fear the days of the large TV in the lounge and lots of cables are over
[16:04] <Babs_> He or She will be an engineer.
[16:04] <Babs_> I actually got quite excited looking at the technical lego yesterday, its a fantastic excuse to buy something I haven't been able to buy since I was 8
[16:05] <Laurenceb> why not
[16:05] <Laurenceb> lego technic is epic
[16:05] <eroomde> yeah, it's fantastic
[16:05] <mattbrejza> Babs_: http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=42009-1
[16:05] <eroomde> did you see ibanexmatt's 3yo brother doing a rocket launch on NYE?
[16:06] <Laurenceb> my dad used to have a huge lego technic robot arm hooked up to a model b
[16:06] <Laurenceb> great fun
[16:06] <eroomde> yeah, lego was totally my awakening
[16:06] <UpuWork> +!
[16:06] <UpuWork> +1
[16:06] <gonzo__> you will learn the art of flying everything in the house out of reach
[16:06] <Babs_> This was my car chassis http://thelegocarblog.com/2011/11/20/lego-technic-8860-car-chassis-review/
[16:06] <daveake> I had beta builder, then meccano
[16:07] <eroomde> especially mindstorms, that got my into robotics
[16:07] <eroomde> from then, robotwars
[16:07] <Babs_> I can't believe even my lego model looks dated now
[16:07] <UpuWork> Still got that one Babs_
[16:07] <gonzo__> Is is this Babs++;
[16:07] <bertrik> perhaps I've spent too much time of my childhood indoors because of lego
[16:07] <daveake> But it was a Philips electronics set that really did it
[16:07] <Babs_> Talking 'bout my generation (Upuwork)
[16:07] <UpuWork> and this one : http://www.brickpicker.com/images/set_images/brickpicker_set_8880_5.jpg
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[16:07] <eroomde> i had that!
[16:07] <UpuWork> I spent most of NY Eve building Lego with the wife
[16:08] <UpuWork> https://twitter.com/AnthonyStirk/status/418032955852738561/photo/1
[16:08] <Babs_> (On a serious note though) I reckon plastic meccano, then metal meccano then technical lego is the best thing for working out how things work
[16:08] <Laurenceb> haha i have the 8860 car chassis... somewhere
[16:08] <bertrik> I disliked the custom one-purpose lego bricks
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[16:09] <Babs_> That chassis was the next one along I think UpuWork. You live well.
[16:09] <Babs_> bertrik that is so true.
[16:09] <eroomde> then you'll start to look longingly at http://www.sherline.com/cncmenu.htm
[16:09] <mattbrejza> anyone else have this one: http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=8480-1
[16:09] <UpuWork> My sister bought me the Back to the Future car for this Christmas
[16:09] <Babs_> if you can't make it with standard blocks it shouldn't be made
[16:09] <eroomde> which is an awesome addition to any lair
[16:09] <UpuWork> no but thats ace
[16:10] <PD0RKC> -----==== Anyone knows when next balloon launches are??? ==---------
[16:10] <UpuWork> haha PD0RKC called topic
[16:10] <mattbrejza> when the weather is less shit id guess PD0RKC :P
[16:10] <UpuWork> possibly tommorrow PD0RKC if it doesn't rain under a foil
[16:10] <UpuWork> at the moment its wet
[16:10] <UpuWork> windy
[16:10] <eroomde> PD0RKC: the UK is currently completely under attack from the sky and the sea
[16:10] <Babs_> mattbrejza / Bertrik. That shuttle needs to come with a custom scale replica of a block of insulating foam to fire at it the leading edge of the wing for testing.
[16:10] <UpuWork> and pretty shit
[16:11] <PD0RKC> Upuwork what name does the balloon has for tommorow sceduled launch?
[16:11] <Babs_> eroomde - that CNC mill. I'm struggling to get my aluminium bits done for the gimbal rig, would that do the job?
[16:11] <mattbrejza> i did like the gear box on that, and being able to select different functions and it engage the correct gears
[16:12] <eroomde> Babs_: yes
[16:12] <eroomde> v likely
[16:12] <Babs_> I have a room I can fit it in for 6 months before it gets replaced with a cot
[16:12] <eroomde> buying a cnc mill to make some ali parts is like buying a cow to make a burger
[16:12] <eroomde> it's not the quickest way
[16:12] <PD0RKC> eroomde hope weather will be better or we must wait a while I gues.
[16:12] <eroomde> but if you also want it because it's just awesome to have a tabletop cnc mill, and you don't mind learning, then it's great
[16:12] <Babs_> Agreed.
[16:12] <Laurenceb> cant you just use a drill press?
[16:12] <Laurenceb> surely its not too complex??
[16:12] <eroomde> Laurenceb: you make me sick in my mouth
[16:13] <Laurenceb> lol
[16:13] <Babs_> Can you look at stl files over there Laurenceb?
[16:13] <Laurenceb> drill press + file + hacksaw
[16:13] <Laurenceb> go for it
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[16:13] <daveake> Anyone else grow up on these? http://www.hansotten.com/uploads/bouwdozen/ee1000/IMG_8845.JPG
[16:13] <eroomde> you can make anything with a file and ahacksaw
[16:13] <Babs_> http://www.filedropper.com/attachments201413_3
[16:14] <eroomde> but making 8 of the same thing quickly and repeatedly is a different problem
[16:14] <daveake> I guess I need the oldies to be around for a "yes" to that :p
[16:14] <Babs_> eroomde, you should know by now that if I can't over engineer and over design something I am not doing it
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[16:14] <eroomde> well, a tabletop sherline would make you happy
[16:14] <eroomde> i'd def get one over a tabletop 3d printer
[16:14] <Babs_> Does anyone mind if I bring my baby along to the conference and set up a site selling balloon stuff btw?
[16:14] <eroomde> you can do some fairly serious engineering with the former
[16:14] <eroomde> just at a smaller level
[16:14] <eroomde> scale*
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[16:15] <eroomde> but you can make that intricate bit out of aerospace ali
[16:15] <eroomde> or whatever
[16:15] <Laurenceb> 3d printing?!
[16:15] <Laurenceb> if you say so
[16:15] <Babs_> Laurenceb - done that
[16:15] <eroomde> Babs_: i'll buy the sherline off you when you're done with it
[16:15] Action: Laurenceb thinks 3D printing is mostly overhyped
[16:16] <Laurenceb> i did find one use for it - with stratsys printing ABS you can make good vac form molds
[16:16] <eroomde> i don't, but i do think it's premature
[16:16] <eroomde> and i think extrusion stuff is not interesting
[16:16] <eroomde> but laser scintering is awesome
[16:16] <Laurenceb> oh
[16:16] <Laurenceb> yeah my 3d priting i meant extrusion
[16:16] <eroomde> yeah
[16:16] <Laurenceb> laser sintering is another matter
[16:16] <eroomde> the scientering stuff can do inconels now
[16:16] <Laurenceb> hmm freecad says "loading 51%"
[16:17] <eroomde> and fancy ali
[16:17] <Laurenceb> for the past 2 minutes
[16:17] <eroomde> 6al-4Vi Titanium (the good titanium)
[16:17] <eroomde> it's good stuff
[16:17] <Babs_> I had loads of fun 3D printing BABSHAB but in the end it is quite brittle
[16:17] <eroomde> just $$$$$
[16:17] <Babs_> Plus I want to attach the brushless motors to it and they may get hot and in any case will expose the thing to a lot of stress
[16:18] <eroomde> yes, i'd go machining for this, for sure
[16:18] <Lowerstoford> Springs and wires. Plug it together, connect it to radiator, listen to muffled cracking radio :-)
[16:18] <eroomde> the finish and tolerance is important
[16:18] <Babs_> I got a couple of pieces made by this guy http://lomach.com/
[16:18] <UpuWork> http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/NASA-Mars-Science-Laboratory-Curiosity-Rover-21104
[16:19] <Laurenceb> yeah freecad gives me "operation not supported"
[16:19] <WillTablet> Just got back from ML&S and managed not to buy anything.
[16:19] <Laurenceb> i dunno lol
[16:19] <WillTablet> Pretty impressive
[16:19] <Babs_> which were really good but then he's got way too busy
[16:19] <eroomde> WillTablet: congrats!
[16:19] <WillTablet> Wel
[16:19] <WillTablet> Nothing they told me to buy
[16:19] <WillTablet> I bought the yearbook
[16:19] <Babs_> http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/NASA-Mars-Science-Laboratory-Curiosity-Rover-21104 UpuWork - we just need a lego eroomde to put alongside it and bingo
[16:20] <UpuWork> I don't think minifigs come with with shorts
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[16:20] <Babs_> i just had to spit my tea back into my mug
[16:21] <eroomde> on which note, Imma go pick up my tv
[16:22] <eroomde> so long, kindle
[16:22] <WillTablet> So I walk in on grown men talking about Lego minifigures
[16:22] <eroomde> it was fun while it lastes
[16:22] <WillTablet> eroomde: you are getting a TV?????!!!!!!!!!
[16:22] <WillTablet> Woah
[16:22] <eroomde> yes
[16:22] Action: WillTablet applauds
[16:22] <eroomde> it's mostly for internet media...
[16:22] <x-f> WillTablet, grown men usually is an oxymoron
[16:22] <Babs_> eroomde, you don't have a TV?
[16:22] <WillTablet> What coaxed you into doing it
[16:22] <eroomde> Babs_: nope
[16:22] <eroomde> i will do in a minute
[16:23] <eroomde> haven't been bothered by TV since I went to uni
[16:23] <Babs_> Within 2 weeks you won't know how you ever existed before a daily dose of Judge Judy
[16:23] <eroomde> i'm hoping not
[16:23] <Babs_> i do it all through the internet now, much more efficient
[16:23] <eroomde> it's more that i often want to watch decent long talks on the net on a proper screen
[16:23] <SpeedEvil> Babs_: Teletubbies - I thank you very much.
[16:23] <eroomde> not from a laptop on my lap of coffee table
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> I have some standards.
[16:24] <mattbrejza> storage hunters?
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[16:24] <Babs_> storage hunters is mega.
[16:24] <eroomde> i saw that on the morning after NYE
[16:24] <eroomde> i was amazed
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't exist in the UK.
[16:24] <eroomde> the auctioneer conveys information at the normal rate
[16:24] <SpeedEvil> As they simply take the stuff.
[16:24] <eroomde> 10 dollars, 20 dollars, 30 dollars...
[16:24] <WillTablet> eroomde: you should watch My Little Pony
[16:24] <eroomde> but he adds in 1000000 redundant syllables
[16:25] <Babs_> You can watch your old mucker Francis Bouille on the TV eroomde. Something to look forward to.
[16:25] Action: WillTablet waits to be kicked
[16:25] <eroomde> 10 hubbadubbadabberla 20 hubbadubbadabberla
[16:25] <eroomde> Babs_: no there are limits
[16:25] <Babs_> eroomde - is that auctioneer from the flintstones?
[16:25] <eroomde> i couldn't transcribe it particularly well
[16:25] <SpeedEvil> It is actually words
[16:25] <eroomde> right, going to get this damn tv
[16:25] <eroomde> bbl
[16:26] <SpeedEvil> Allegedly
[16:26] <Babs_> laters
[16:26] Action: SpeedEvil waves.
[16:26] Action: SpeedEvil particles.
[16:26] <Babs_> *Babs fourier transforms and waves to many people at once
[16:26] <WillTablet> eroomde: are you reluctant to get a rv?
[16:26] <WillTablet> *tv
[16:27] Action: bertrik solitons back
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[16:30] Action: SpeedEvil hasn't had a working TV for some time.
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[16:40] <Babs_> laurenceb - did the zip file download?
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[16:48] <Laurenceb> Babs_: can't open the files in freecad
[16:48] <Laurenceb> "operation not supported"
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[16:50] <Babs_> does freecad open sketchup files?
[16:50] <Laurenceb> no
[16:51] <Laurenceb> openSCAD?
[16:52] <Babs_> hmmm, let me go away and see whether i can do some conversion
[16:52] <Laurenceb> http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/free-cad/index.php?title=Feature_list
[16:52] <Laurenceb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeCAD#Supported_File_Formats
[16:59] <diegoesep> hello guys
[16:59] <diegoesep> have you seen this:
[16:59] <diegoesep> http://www.icrobotics.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Turning_the_Raspberry_Pi_Into_an_FM_Transmitter
[17:00] <diegoesep> it may be used for the 2M band for transmitting data in HAB?
[17:00] <diegoesep> It will work from about 1Mhz up to 250Mhz,
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[17:01] <gurgalof> need to put a lowpass filter before the antenna
[17:01] <adamgreig> Laurenceb: I tried something else quickly too
[17:01] <adamgreig> http://randomskk.net/u/heartrate.html
[17:01] <adamgreig> just do a convolution with a delta train at each likely BPM and phase
[17:01] <adamgreig> of the differential of the intensities
[17:01] <adamgreig> no filtering
[17:01] <adamgreig> for a 5s clip of data
[17:01] <adamgreig> so 150 frames
[17:02] <Laurenceb> oh nice
[17:02] <Laurenceb> thats impressive
[17:03] <adamgreig> oh it works even better if I abs(diff(intensities)) instead of just diff
[17:03] <adamgreig> hmm though that's a bit weird maybe
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[17:05] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: Do you know that you can do that with ambient light, and pointed at a person?
[17:05] <adamgreig> interesting
[17:05] <adamgreig> would have expected there to be more noise
[17:06] <adamgreig> or require a useful amount of exposed skin?
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> face works fine
[17:06] <Laurenceb> average over an area
[17:06] <Laurenceb> like the face
[17:06] <adamgreig> so if I take a video of my face and do the same analysis it should still get heartrate you reckon?
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> For example, closeups on politicians during speeches made in parliament should be amusing.
[17:06] <Laurenceb> probably
[17:06] <SpeedEvil> yes
[17:06] <adamgreig> easy to find out
[17:06] Action: adamgreig takes a quick video selfie
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> yeah.
[17:07] <SpeedEvil> https://github.com/thearn/webcam-pulse-detector
[17:08] <adamgreig> cute
[17:09] <gurgalof> thats cool
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[17:11] <adamgreig> hmmmm
[17:11] <adamgreig> I get a 60bpm result out of jsut a video of my whole face
[17:12] <adamgreig> should try doing some quick exercise or meditation to alter it and get some more samples
[17:12] <gurgalof> mind blown!
[17:12] Action: SpeedEvil decides to not give the obvious suggestion.
[17:12] <SpeedEvil> Jog on the spot
[17:12] <adamgreig> get the right result from just forehead too, though it's less strong than the face
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[17:15] Action: Willdude123 thinks he should take his homework more seriously than this I couldn;
[17:15] <Willdude123> http://imgur.com/AKt97OB
[17:15] <SpeedEvil> hah
[17:16] <Willdude123> My Geography teacher thinks everything I do is copied off wikipedia
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[17:16] <Willdude123> I tried to put facts into it but she wouldn't let me and said it needed to be "personal"
[17:17] <SpeedEvil> Is it?
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[17:18] <Willdude123> SpeedEvil, I've never been high :)
[17:18] <SpeedEvil> I meant is it copied off wikipedia.
[17:19] <Willdude123> No
[17:19] <Willdude123> Never
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[17:19] <Willdude123> I have never copied anything off of Wikipedia
[17:21] <adamgreig> hmmm
[17:21] <adamgreig> i _keep_ getting strong signals at 60fps
[17:22] <adamgreig> uh
[17:22] <adamgreig> 60bpm
[17:22] <Laurenceb> aim at a wall
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> THE WALLS ARE ALIVE!!!
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: It's probably picking up beat signals from the lighting somehow
[17:23] <gurgalof> did you try excercise
[17:23] <adamgreig> at 1Hz?
[17:23] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: I don't know what frequency the cam is running at
[17:24] <adamgreig> 30fps
[17:24] <SpeedEvil> the harmonics of some sorts of lighting can go well beyond 100hz
[17:24] <adamgreig> I hope :P
[17:24] <adamgreig> I get 66bpm from thew all, which is nicely different from the 60.0bpm I was getting the rest of the time, but...
[17:25] <adamgreig> small numbers on all the correlation sums too though
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> Mains frequency is 49.995 ATM
[17:27] <SpeedEvil> 49.96, rather
[17:27] <Laurenceb> adamgreig: try autocorrelation
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[17:33] <mfa298> daveake: I had something pretty similar but it was slater science rather than phillips (but the same idea of putting springs into a board and putting stuff together like that (rather than just connecting wires as most kits seem to be)
[17:34] <daveake> ah cool. Yes much better to place the components
[17:34] <daveake> Best thing though was the manual that came with it
[17:35] <daveake> really good at explaining how things worked
[17:36] <mfa298> was also good that you could go to tandy and buy things and use on the same board.
[17:37] <daveake> indeed
[17:37] <daveake> but Tandy .... pre-packaged resistors :/
[17:38] <daveake> I used to get the underground from home in Essex to Edgware Rd to buy components
[17:40] <Babs_> Tandy - where did that one go?
[17:40] <daveake> hell probably
[17:40] <daveake> radio shacks are still common in the usa
[17:40] <mfa298> not enough people buying CBs in the late 90's early 2000's probably
[17:40] <SpeedEvil> Babs_: It went to selling phones and stuff, then I think carphone warehouse took over the rest of the stores
[17:41] <Babs_> i saw a good sketch on the morals of the carphone warehouse once
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[17:46] <eroomde> i now haves the tv
[17:46] <eroomde> it's good
[17:47] <Babs_> which one did you get?
[17:47] <eroomde> though i don't have an HD shiz to try it with atm
[17:47] <eroomde> samsun UE32F5000
[17:47] <eroomde> i think
[17:47] <arko> nice
[17:47] <Babs_> arko in the house
[17:47] <eroomde> so i'm all set for the Sherlock gathering at my house on sunday
[17:47] <arko> woop woop
[17:48] <arko> eroomde: :D
[17:48] <arko> christine and i are doing wine and cheese and sherlock night on saturday
[17:48] <arko> wine and cheese yo
[17:48] <eroomde> my party is with one other person too
[17:48] <Babs_> arko - good tree action on flickr
[17:48] <eroomde> but i'm pulling all the stops out
[17:48] <eroomde> cheese on toast
[17:48] <Babs_> treat her to some branston eroomde.
[17:49] <arko> Babs_: haha yeah that was an experiment flyapple was trying, went to watch
[17:49] <eroomde> it's actually welsh rarebit which is seriously pulling all the stops out
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[17:49] <Babs_> don't go too ambitious too early eroomde, it sets a dangerous precedent for future sherlock catering nights
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[17:49] <arko> ^
[17:49] <eroomde> i'm not doing it for the sherlock
[17:49] <Babs_> did you make your yagi arko?
[17:50] <arko> yes, super ghetto but works super well
[17:50] <arko> ed lol
[17:50] <arko> did you get a chromecast or something similar?
[17:51] <eroomde> i will buy all that online soon
[17:51] <Babs_> all of the homies in Watts have home made yagis arko?
[17:51] <arko> nice
[17:51] <eroomde> will get a roku 3
[17:51] <eroomde> it has a wifi remote with a headphone jack
[17:51] <arko> lol Watts, that's quiet the scary place to be :P
[17:51] <eroomde> so you can get the audio for headphone locally
[17:51] <adamgreig> oh that's very nice
[17:51] <arko> oh nice!
[17:51] <eroomde> this is actual a seriously good date recipe, and i'm not joking. it tastes amazing
[17:51] <eroomde> http://www.countrylife.co.uk/countryside/article/529119/Greatest-Recipes-Ever-Fergus-Henderson-s-Welsh-rarebit.html
[17:52] <arko> 200ml Guinness
[17:52] <arko> sold
[17:52] <Babs_> is this a first date recipe eroomde or a repeater?
[17:52] <eroomde> that and a glass of prosecco
[17:52] <eroomde> some tomato wedges if you're feeling a bit wanky
[17:52] <eroomde> Babs_: nah repeat
[17:52] <arko> "But I was lucky enough to do a couple of days' work experience at St John Restaurant a few years ago"
[17:52] <arko> heh
[17:53] Action: SpeedEvil is enjoying natural yougurt with drizzled honey, and peanuts.
[17:53] <eroomde> http://www.roku.com/products/roku-3
[17:53] <arko> this sounds amazing
[17:53] <SpeedEvil> Really, really cheap, and quite nice indeed. I think it needs some crystalised ginger
[17:53] <arko> damn im soo gonna try to make this now
[17:54] <Babs_> you've never had cheese on toast arko?
[17:54] Action: SpeedEvil is DIYing yogurt from Tesco Value Skimmed Milk Powder. At 2* the concentration, it's really quite nice.
[17:54] <SpeedEvil> Plus, cheap
[17:54] <arko> i have
[17:55] <arko> but this sounds more tasty than some grilled cheese
[17:55] <eroomde> it is, and you can make a big supply of it in advance
[17:55] <Babs_> Ed's French culinary influences shining through there
[17:55] <eroomde> it's from St John
[17:55] <eroomde> the englishest place in london
[17:55] <eroomde> arko: should babs visit St John?
[17:55] <arko> YES
[17:55] Action: eroomde stands back
[17:55] <arko> FOR GODS SAKE
[17:56] <arko> WHAT ARE YOU DOING
[17:56] <arko> GO NOW
[17:56] Action: arko drops the mic
[17:56] <Babs_> this is eroomde's favourite restaurant he was talking about
[17:56] <Babs_> ?
[17:56] <eroomde> one of*
[17:56] <eroomde> yeah probably favourite
[17:57] <arko> eroomde: we going again this year?
[17:57] <eroomde> i don't need much persuading
[17:57] <eroomde> if you're keen
[17:57] <arko> yes
[17:57] <arko> ok good, we are going
[17:58] <arko> probably gonna buy my tickets to the uk/germany/austria in may
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[17:58] <arko> i will budget for a trip to st johns again
[17:58] <eroomde> ok cool
[17:58] <eroomde> well, oxford would be glad to have you again iuw
[17:59] <arko> :)
[17:59] <eroomde> +1's welcome too
[17:59] <eroomde> should be just my house then
[17:59] <arko> :D
[17:59] <eroomde> with an actual proper bed in the spare room
[17:59] <arko> awesomo9000
[17:59] <arko> hahaha, that inflatable one wasn't bad at all actually
[17:59] <eroomde> yeah it's decent
[17:59] <arko> good times
[17:59] <eroomde> but i read a david sedaris essay about having a proper spare room, without qualification
[17:59] <eroomde> no sofabeds, no inflatable matrasses, a bed
[17:59] <eroomde> and i was convinced
[18:00] <arko> lol, only you
[18:00] <arko> "essay about having a proper spare room"
[18:00] <arko> amazing that someone sat down and wrote this
[18:00] <eroomde> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/06/03/130603fa_fact_sedaris
[18:01] <arko> oh!!
[18:01] <arko> him!
[18:01] <eroomde> yes him
[18:01] <arko> funny dude
[18:01] <eroomde> i like him
[18:01] <eroomde> i went to his local last night in the hope of bumping into him
[18:01] <eroomde> failed
[18:01] <arko> he lives near your parents no?
[18:03] <eroomde> yes
[18:03] <eroomde> i'm still there
[18:03] <eroomde> in west sussex
[18:03] <eroomde> till tomorrow
[18:04] <arko> ah
[18:04] <arko> coolio
[18:06] <arko> this essay is hilarious btw
[18:06] <eroomde> yes, i really like him
[18:06] <eroomde> i also like his voice
[18:06] <eroomde> he reminds me of a cross between woody allen and eeyore
[18:06] <arko> yeah, very nice writing style
[18:07] <arko> "People spend a fortune on their plane tickets from the U.S. By the time they arrive, theyre broke and tired and would probably sleep in our car if we offered it. " <--- truth
[18:07] <eroomde> yes you basically sounded like you wanted to turn around and go back to LA
[18:07] <eroomde> on your first night
[18:08] <eroomde> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoH7X1ZOslc
[18:08] <arko> haha, thankfully the next morning was great, sleep debt does weird things to the mind
[18:09] <arko> hah wow, you're right about the voice
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[18:10] <eroomde> he's on radio4 at the moment
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[18:10] <eroomde> just 30 mins of him telling a story
[18:10] <eroomde> so you can add that to your reasons to like radio 4]
[18:11] <arko> :)
[18:11] <arko> found a chrome/firefox plug in that proxies co.uk to the uk
[18:11] <arko> so i can watch bbc and radio stuff
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[18:11] <arko> great discovery
[18:12] <eroomde> you can watch iplayer through chromecast
[18:12] <eroomde> and be a happy person
[18:12] <arko> you can
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[18:13] <arko> you obviously need a device to stream it though
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[18:13] <arko> which is why i like the phone/tablet, its like a giant remote
[18:14] <eroomde> yeah
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-4LD2i4oDg
[18:15] <eroomde> i am looking forward to this future of media connectedness
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> (silly RC jet antics)
[18:15] <adamgreig> the other thing that's really good
[18:15] <adamgreig> is youtube tv
[18:15] <adamgreig> http://youtube.com/tv
[18:15] <adamgreig> you want that on your tv somehow or other
[18:15] <adamgreig> and then your phone can bind to it
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: It's retarded
[18:15] <adamgreig> and your phone's youtube app then becomes a high tech remote control for it
[18:15] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: I have a large screen on my PC
[18:15] <adamgreig> and you can bind many phones
[18:16] <adamgreig> so all your friends or whatever can add videos to a shared queue
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: Why the hell can't I remote control it if I have the youtube page up
[18:16] <eroomde> ok, i think plex supports chromecast now
[18:16] <adamgreig> SpeedEvil: you can? just use youtube.com/tv instead of normal youtube.com?
[18:16] <eroomde> which i presume could allow a similar thing
[18:16] <adamgreig> being able to have everyone in the room add youtube videos to a shared queue is quite fun
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[18:17] <adamgreig> for a bit
[18:17] <adamgreig> then you realise how few good youtube videos you can find
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> Turns out there are only 348 decent videos on youtube
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> adamgreig: thanks - I hadn't found that /tv/ thing - it's depressing they don't actually make this stuff discoverable
[18:18] <Babs_> opencad
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[18:21] <eroomde> goldeneye is on this eve
[18:21] <eroomde> that's a goodie
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[18:27] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
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[18:42] <eroomde> there are 37 5-minute segments of 'coast' ever filmed
[18:42] <eroomde> each program is generated by an algorithm that picks 6 of them at random from this set, and concatenates them together
[18:42] <eroomde> then broadcasts them on bbc2
[18:45] <arko> http://i.imgur.com/Cm5RnQu.jpg
[18:45] <arko> POOOWEEERRRRR
[18:45] <eroomde> nice
[18:45] <eroomde> that's hefty
[18:45] <adamgreig> 750G, niice
[18:45] <adamgreig> my desktop is like 128GB and my laptop 64GB :P
[18:46] <adamgreig> does get annoying at times
[18:46] <adamgreig> looking forward to my 3TB NAS drive
[18:46] <adamgreig> 10GB remains on my current 1TB RAID setup
[18:46] <arko> :D
[18:46] <adamgreig> btrfs starting to get very unhappy
[18:49] <mfa298> most filesystems will get unhappy with that small amount of free space.
[18:49] <arko> yeah, giving 120gb to linux and the rest to windows
[18:49] <arko> want to get efi on there
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[18:50] <arko> http://moviecode.tumblr.com/
[18:50] <Babs_> ping laurenceb
[18:51] <adamgreig> mfa298: with "only 10GB" free? :P
[18:52] <arko> eroomde: this video is hilarious btw
[18:53] <eroomde> it's by jgc
[18:53] <eroomde> i note
[18:53] <mfa298> general rule of thumb is a happy FS has at least 10-20% space free
[18:53] <eroomde> who was at the con
[18:53] <eroomde> conf*
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[18:53] <mfa298> although that get's somewhat iritating when you realise you can't use 500GB of that 6TB raid array (useable space)
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[19:11] <cuddykid> arko: loving the movie code
[19:11] <arko> :P
[19:12] <arko> moviecode.tumblr.com
[19:12] <arko> for others
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[19:16] <Babs_> Programming in the movies vs. programming in real life https://vine.co/v/hPXTA6l9AqQ
[19:17] <adamgreig> Babs_: haha, looks about right
[19:18] <adamgreig> http://hackertyper.net/
[19:18] <arko> hahaha
[19:19] <arko> i like how each keystroke is like 4-5 chars
[19:19] <arko> Babs_: thats hilarious
[19:21] <Babs_> I think it's just a video of someone operating on hackertyper ^ but props to the real life segment that i think is some real code
[19:22] <Babs_> its great with the alternative colour schemes and sitting in the dark etc. inspired
[19:22] <arko> hehe
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[19:27] <mikestir> they forgot the bit where after several minutes of sitting thinking the real world dev opens up a browser and starts reading el reg for 20 minutes
[19:29] <mfa298> or goes on IRC and talks about stuff that might vaguely be related to balloons/rockets in some obscure way.
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[19:30] <SpeedEvil> Or more likely, if it's been more than an hour since breakfast, food.
[19:31] <eroomde> all the above
[19:31] <eroomde> with pride
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[20:08] <chrisstubbs> Top tip for glue guns: Glue the next glue stick onto the old one to stop it falling out
[20:08] <chrisstubbs> how have i only just figured this out?
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> Other top tip - throw away the gluegun, and use a lighter - if you just want a blob of glue
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> If you need a lot of glue, use a blowtorch
[20:10] <SpeedEvil> - move the flame over the surface so as to keep it just below the smoke point - melts really rapidly
[20:12] <ibanezmatt13> warning: for professionals only. Do not try this at home...
[20:15] <SpeedEvil> Quite - there is increased use of setting yourself on fire
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> yeah, but saying that, I still managed to burn myself with the hot glue gun. Your idea is probably safer :)
[20:18] <ibanezmatt13> bbl
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[20:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDCNJdeM9PE
[20:20] <SpeedEvil> Things that look dangerous can be safer
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[21:16] <Laurenceb_> im guessing everyones favourite TV show is on?
[21:17] <Lunar_Lander> which is it?
[21:19] <eroomde> strictly cumberbatch
[21:19] <eroomde> it's a program presented by benedict cumberbatch about how sherlock holmes liked dancing
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[21:21] <arko> some parts are a bit silly but its fun
[21:23] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[21:50] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[21:57] <SpeedEvil> http://www.fmylife.com/miscellaneous/21014763 Genius parenting idea.
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[22:15] <c43211> Hi
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[22:42] <WillTablet> Is there any reason why I couldn't take someone else's callsign with a different prefix just to annoy them?
[22:42] <WillTablet> Like M1UPU
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> There is no reason you can't.
[22:46] <SpeedEvil> If that one is free, and you are allowed to pick it
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[22:50] <mfa298> although are you allowed to pick M1 callsigns at the moment ?
[22:51] <mfa298> everything I've seen seems to suggest you can only use the M6/2E0/M0 ranges
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> But the suffix is not protected in any way - at least for nomral nes.
[22:51] <SpeedEvil> Are there any prohibited ones - ZZZ or something?
[22:53] <mfa298> I've not seen anything saying any are prohibited
[22:54] <WillTablet> Not sure
[22:54] <WillTablet> KKK probably is
[22:56] <mfa298> would be interesting to know how much of the M1 space has been used. Initially I suspect it's usage was much higher than the M0 space.
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[00:00] --- Sat Jan 4 2014