highaltitude.log.20131231

[00:07] <Laurenceb_> perman00b question: how do i redirect stderr to a logfile ?
[00:09] <fsphil> bla 2> logfile
[00:10] <VK4HIA> G'day All, would someone kindly approve my flight doc. VK4HIA_Bunjil
[00:10] <Laurenceb_> ah of course
[00:10] <Laurenceb_> thanks :D
[00:10] <Darkside> VK4HIA: whats the signature of it
[00:10] <Darkside> or doc id
[00:10] <Darkside> VK4HIA: also most of the people that can do that are asleep, and i've forgotten my password >_>
[00:11] <VK4HIA> No probs, doc id??
[00:12] <Darkside> yes, doc id
[00:12] <Darkside> its on the flight doc page somwhere
[00:13] <Darkside> you need to give that to the guys in #habhub
[00:14] <VK4HIA> No probs mate, I'll jump on tonight when more are around.
[00:14] <Darkside> yeah, thats a better idea, until i hav th ability to do it
[00:15] <Darkside> right, time to fix my car VHF/UHF rig!
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[00:15] <VK4HIA> Enjoy!
[00:15] <Darkside> yup
[00:15] <Darkside> freaking qouxuns
[00:15] <Darkside> wouxuns*
[00:16] <VK4HIA> yep!...all good fum
[00:17] <beingaware> morning
[00:17] <beingaware> lol VK4HIA, you are on when I go to bed and still here when I wake up
[00:17] <VK4HIA> Gday
[00:17] <Darkside> morning my fellow aussies
[00:17] <beingaware> do you sleep? :P
[00:17] <VK4HIA> Too much going on here!
[00:17] <beingaware> @vk4hia join ##hamradio as well :P
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[01:34] <ike> Darkside you said someting about IQ and 90* phase shift, right?
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[03:51] <heathkid> IQ?
[03:52] <heathkid> finally got my Arrow 2m/70cm antenna (NICE!!!)
[03:52] <heathkid> now just have to build the Alt/Az tripod mount for it...
[03:53] <heathkid> for tracking
[03:55] <Darkside> :D
[03:55] <Darkside> the arrow antennas are great
[03:55] <Darkside> i take mine with me when i travel
[03:55] <Darkside> did you get the rollup bag with it?
[04:01] <heathkid> I don't think so but I haven't really looked it over yet
[04:01] <heathkid> let me check
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[04:10] <heathkid> nope
[04:10] <heathkid> no rollup bag
[04:10] <heathkid> I got jipped!
[04:16] <heathkid> btw, antennas on ebay are stupid expensive! seriously that much $$$ for a J-Pole? Really?
[04:16] <heathkid> the twin lead coax ones...
[04:16] <heathkid> can't anyone cut a length of wire anymore?
[04:18] <Darkside> hh
[04:18] <Darkside> hehe
[04:19] <Darkside> a single band jpole is pretty easy to make
[04:19] <Darkside> i've made some spot frequency 300 ohm coax ones
[04:21] <heathkid> my best 2m antenna is made out of 300 ohm twinlead
[04:21] <heathkid> fed by 50 ohm coax with a few loops at the base
[04:22] <heathkid> that stuff on eBay is a joke
[04:22] <Darkside> my best 2m antenna is a diamond X520 :P
[04:22] <heathkid> except the copper pipe ones...
[04:22] <heathkid> the stainless steel? really???
[04:22] <heathkid> lol
[04:22] <heathkid> omg
[04:22] <heathkid> okay, I don't have a diamond X520
[04:22] <heathkid> but still
[04:22] <Darkside> its biig
[04:23] <Darkside> that at a friends house atm
[04:23] <Darkside> i have a X-50 too, which is a bit more reasonable
[04:23] <Darkside> i use that mostly on field days
[04:23] <heathkid> seriously, if you NEED that much of an antenna you have some issues... LOL :P
[04:24] <Darkside> it was more so i could do simplx to my dad, who is about 200km away
[04:24] <heathkid> ah
[04:24] <heathkid> that makes sense
[04:24] <Darkside> of course i still rely on ducting
[04:24] <Darkside> but the extra gain makes it easier
[04:24] <heathkid> yep
[04:25] <heathkid> you think in terms of gain... I think in terms of what is less loss... ;)
[04:26] <Darkside> hah
[04:26] <Darkside> well if i ventually get this thing on my roof, i'll be running LMR-400 to it
[04:26] <heathkid> do any 2m CW?
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[04:27] <heathkid> kidding
[04:28] <heathkid> but I'm willing to give it a try
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[04:28] <heathkid> code from a HAB is probably the best backup I can think of for a beacon
[04:28] <heathkid> true?
[04:28] <heathkid> and if it only has one radio on it...
[04:28] <Darkside> i dont do CW
[04:29] <heathkid> why?
[04:29] <Darkside> well
[04:29] <Darkside> i havent bothered to learn it yet
[04:29] <heathkid> oh
[04:29] <Darkside> anyway, regards to radio backup, most of my payloads have been set up such that if the battery gets low, teh radio will still at least put out some kind of blip
[04:29] <Darkside> at least until the battery completely dies
[04:30] <heathkid> http://www.justlearnmorsecode.com/
[04:30] <Darkside> it has about an hour of 'blip blip' after the micro stops working
[04:31] <heathkid> here's another great program! http://www.g4fon.net/CW%20Trainer.htm
[04:31] <heathkid> how does that work with a Li-Ion that shuts down at 2.5V?
[04:31] <heathkid> I know... don't use them
[04:32] <heathkid> Energizer Ultimate Lithium AA's...
[04:32] <heathkid> proved... tested... works the BEST!!!
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[04:33] <Darkside> lol
[04:33] <Darkside> us
[04:33] <Darkside> yes
[04:34] <Darkside> sorry, we remain brand loyal here
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[04:44] <heathkid> in the US?
[04:45] <heathkid> brand loyal or they are just the *best*?
[04:45] <heathkid> you probably have no idea how many batteries I've tested... :)
[04:46] <heathkid> what do you use?
[04:48] <Darkside> we use energizer lithiums
[04:50] <heathkid> of course! :)
[04:50] <heathkid> because they *work*
[04:50] <heathkid> and keep working...
[04:51] <heathkid> until the last uA of capacity is drained out of the poor things...
[04:52] <heathkid> but I still use a 14500 Li-Ion for testing... :) rechargable is great for "on the ground"
[04:52] <heathkid> I can get just over 8 hours out of a single 14500
[04:52] <heathkid> great for testing firmware tweaks
[04:52] <Darkside> yep
[04:52] <Darkside> i use a lipo pack for testin gon the ground
[04:52] <Darkside> cheaper :-)
[04:52] <heathkid> :) yep
[04:53] <heathkid> but *when* I get some gas... the bunny is going to be flying
[04:53] <heathkid> because they just keep going and going and going...
[04:53] <heathkid> :P
[04:53] <Darkside> heh
[04:53] Action: heathkid needs gas
[04:54] <Darkside> i have half a G cylinder sitting in the living room
[04:54] <heathkid> dang!!!
[04:54] <Darkside> you can have it :P
[04:54] <Darkside> just pay shipping :P
[04:54] <heathkid> bring it here and we'll launch together!
[04:55] <heathkid> I'm sure by now you know my plans for a first launch... FAST ascent to burst and recover within 50 miles
[04:55] <Darkside> uh huh
[04:55] <heathkid> at >100k ft.
[04:55] <heathkid> 2nd launch will be a floater
[04:56] <heathkid> a VERY long floater with multiple balloons and cutdowns
[04:56] <heathkid> seems the 1600g doesn't do well at >15k ft.
[04:57] <heathkid> errr
[04:57] <heathkid> oops
[04:57] <heathkid> 115k ft.
[04:57] <heathkid> tends to "pop"
[04:57] <heathkid> so that won't do
[04:57] <heathkid> but a great ascent vehicle
[04:58] <heathkid> that or a pressure relief valve (been looking into them)
[04:58] <heathkid> I still don't understand superpressure balloons...
[05:06] <gearty> do you peeps know about high altitude physiology
[05:07] <SpeedEvil> I've studied it in depth.
[05:08] <SpeedEvil> For at least a couple of hours several years ago.
[05:08] <SpeedEvil> Do you have a specific question?
[05:08] <gearty> nice
[05:09] <gearty> so how do these extreme adventure types climb these giant mountains without supplemental oxygen - is there some kind of process they have to put their bodies through first, if you know
[05:09] <gearty> like involving tanks or chambers or what not
[05:09] <SpeedEvil> Well - that's not really very high altitude.
[05:09] <SpeedEvil> But.
[05:09] <SpeedEvil> Conditioning at moderate altitude (or low O2 levels) can increase the number of blood cells.
[05:10] <SpeedEvil> This can make people somewhat more resistant to the effects of low oxygen.
[05:10] <gearty> after about 18000 feet it becomes high risk doesn't it
[05:10] <SpeedEvil> This works up to pretty high mountains - but eventually you reach a point where the oxygen saturation in the blood gets lowered.
[05:11] <gearty> that is, unsurvivable after a certain amount of time
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[05:11] <SpeedEvil> At the top of everest, without supplemental oxygen - you have a very limited time.
[05:11] <gearty> yes
[05:11] <SpeedEvil> And no amount of adaption can fix this.
[05:11] <gearty> that guy reinhold messnier (?) climbed all of the 8000 footers alpine style
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[05:11] <gearty> i.e. no oxygen
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[05:12] <SpeedEvil> 8000 feet is basically sea level, from the perspective of someone who's acclimitised to it.
[05:13] <gearty> er 8000 meters
[05:13] <SpeedEvil> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Ceuq9P4hLJMC&pg=RA1-PT47&lpg=RA1-PT47&dq=oxyhaemoglobin+saturation+altitude&source=bl&ots=NKkyTWLmfK&sig=jfzSFMkZK0FzknGtRJJqKMhUwgw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HFLCUsv-Comu7AbH9oD4DA&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=oxyhaemoglobin%20saturation%20altitude&f=false is relevant.
[05:13] <gearty> sorry
[05:13] <gearty> the biggest mountains the in world
[05:13] <SpeedEvil> The graph of saturation vs external partial pressure
[05:14] <SpeedEvil> You can see there is a reall sharp dropoff as pressure goes down.
[05:17] <SpeedEvil> http://www.altitude.org/hemoglobin_saturation.php is an interesting calcualtor
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[05:17] <SpeedEvil> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_high_altitude_on_humans#Death_zone
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[05:18] <gearty> there was a disaster on everest this year or the last
[05:18] <gearty> the routes to the summit are littered with bodies
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[05:19] <SpeedEvil> It's not a very safe thing to do.
[05:27] <heathkid> :(
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[06:41] <Upu> morning
[06:44] <qyx_> morning
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[07:27] <anjula> hello
[07:27] <anjula> anybody here
[07:27] <anjula> what happened to the pi? :3
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[07:33] <qyx_> btw when you are messing with software gps, have you considered similar (bud reversed) solution for passive baloon tracking? simple m0/m3 transmitting pn sequence as a payload and then correlating receivers synchronized with gps?
[07:34] <qyx_> if i remember correctly you talked about this in the past
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[12:14] <VK4HIA_> Upu , you around?
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[12:44] <eroomde> James (who I work with) has made smith-chart tart
[12:44] <eroomde> http://www.flickr.com/photos/rocketengines/11651812236/
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[12:46] <Laurenceb_> genius
[12:46] <ike> Darkside are you here?
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[12:53] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: Awesome - and it just looks like an unusual pattern to anyone without a clue.
[12:53] <eroomde> yep
[12:53] <eroomde> exactly the right amount of exclusive joke
[12:54] <nats`> nice smith chart pie !
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[12:56] <eroomde> i think he's just going to call it a Smith tart
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[12:59] <Laurenceb_> http://electronicdesign.com/dev-tools/interview-bjarne-stroustrup-discusses-c
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[13:01] <SpeedEvil> 'It was all a joke, we never expected people to take it so seriously'
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[13:04] <Laurenceb_> the lambda stuff is weird
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> "In C++11, vector has a “move constructor,” so that rather than copying elements, the representation of res (merely three pointers) is “stolen” for use in the caller and an empty vector is left behind"
[13:07] <Laurenceb_> useful
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[13:16] <qyx_> Laurenceb_: ping, hilight earlier today
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> hi
[13:17] <Laurenceb_> whats the question?
[13:18] <qyx_> 08:33 < qyx_> btw when you are messing with software gps, have you considered similar (bud reversed) solution for passive baloon tracking? simple m0/m3 transmitting pn sequence as a payload and then correlating receivers synchronized with gps?
[13:18] <qyx_> 08:34 < qyx_> if i remember correctly you talked about this in the past
[13:18] <Laurenceb_> qyx_: sure, i've looked at that
[13:19] <Laurenceb_> but you need synchronised receivers
[13:19] <Laurenceb_> not so simple
[13:20] <qyx_> yep i know
[13:21] <Laurenceb_> we struggle to get enough receivers as it is
[13:21] <qyx_> i am curious if some proof of concept could be done
[13:21] <qyx_> even with not-so-standard receivers
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[13:22] <SpeedEvil> What would be interesting would be a simple test payload.
[13:22] <VK4HIA_> Upu are you around?
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> With a beacon, and GPS broadcast, on close (2khz spacing) frequencies.
[13:23] <SpeedEvil> Then simply several people doing audio recordings of it, nothign more complex.
[13:24] <SpeedEvil> - to show that it's possible to end up with a zero drift position solution - when comparing the relative phases of the gps transmitting payloadm, and the beacon
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[13:39] <Laurenceb_> or a cluster launch
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> with one GPS beacon equipped balloon
[13:39] <Laurenceb_> then the others having PRN beacons
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[13:42] <SpeedEvil> yeah
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> PRN is the gold-plated version of this - even CW works. (but getting CW beacons to stay on freq may be challenging)
[13:43] <SpeedEvil> (In principle, yes, you can disambiguate multiple balloons on the same frequency, but probably not.
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[14:04] <VK4HIA_> G'day paul
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[14:06] <VK4HIA_> Upu you around?
[14:08] <beingaware> I am now :P
[14:09] <beingaware> 2013-12-30 02:54:34
[14:12] <beingaware> 401.5 is the bom one
[14:12] <beingaware> 9:15am and 9:15pm from the airport
[14:13] <beingaware> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM2iNJyd4UA
[14:13] <VK4HIA_> OK
[14:16] <beingaware> http://www.coaa.co.uk/sondemonitor.htm
[14:16] <beingaware> http://www.blackcatsystems.com/software/radiosonde-decoder.html
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[14:19] <beingaware> http://www.blackcatsystems.com/usbciv/usb_icom_ci-v_interface.html
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[14:41] <Laurenceb_> seems i suck at arm asm
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/stellaris_arm/f/471/t/44034.aspx
[14:41] <Laurenceb_> that fft code pwns
[14:43] <Laurenceb_> as fast as my half finished cortex m4 code, on a cortex m3
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[14:46] <SpeedEvil> :)
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[14:46] <SpeedEvil> Never get better without practice.
[14:47] <SpeedEvil> FFT is a thing that gets oodles of optimisation.
[14:47] <Laurenceb_> heh
[14:48] <Laurenceb_> if i swap .macro MULCC ar,ai, xr,xi,cr,ci for my macro its faster than my existing half finished code
[14:48] <Laurenceb_> and runs :P
[14:48] <Laurenceb_> thats without any other cortex m4 DSP functions being used
[14:49] <SpeedEvil> So further m4 optimisation could go faster?
[14:49] <Laurenceb_> yes
[14:51] <Laurenceb_> bbl
[14:53] <x-f> daveake, i'm looking at your "UKHAS 2013 Pi" presentation and on the slide about SSDV there is a text "Switch off O/P conversions!" - what does it mean?
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[14:54] <x-f> the only one with an exclamation mark and i don't understand it, must be important
[14:54] <daveake> It's to stop (e.g.) LD being converted to CR LF
[14:55] <daveake> LF
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[14:55] <daveake> Otherwise the binary SSDV packets will be broken
[14:55] <x-f> if it works for me, then i have it off?
[14:55] <daveake> If you're doing SSDV, yes
[14:56] <x-f> cool, thanks
[14:56] <daveake> If you're only doing telemetry,, it'll work anyway
[14:56] <x-f> SSDV works
[14:56] <daveake> You can run stty to find out what conversions are enabled/disabled
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[14:59] <Willdude123> Hello
[15:12] <mfa298> afternoon Willdude123
[15:12] <mfa298> have you made progress with those repeaters.
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[15:53] <VK4HIA_> Upu are you around?
[15:53] <YO9ICT> VK4HIA_ Happy new year !
[15:53] <VK4HIA_> HNY
[15:53] <beingaware> happy new year all for 2 hours ago haha
[15:53] <VK4HIA_> haha. nightowl
[15:54] <beingaware> yep
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[16:03] <beingaware> night all
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[17:28] <Lunar_Lander> be,,k
[17:28] <Lunar_Lander> hello that should be
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[17:30] <Willdude123> Dammit, I'm having so much difficulty making a Munar Lander in KSP
[17:32] <Lunar_Lander> building or flying it?
[17:36] <zyp> pft, landers are for pussies
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[17:36] <Willdude123> Lunar_Lander: building
[17:36] <zyp> I lost my lander on the way during my first attempt, so I just went and landed the transport vehicle instead
[17:36] <zyp> http://bin.jvnv.net/f/FB7ic.png
[17:36] <Willdude123> Well. I can sort of get into orbit of kerbin
[17:36] <Willdude123> But I end up using too much fuel
[17:36] <x-f> zyp :))
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[17:52] <Lunar_Lander> ah
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[18:04] <YO9ICT> Willdude123 , Why you don't fly Orbiter simulator?
[18:11] <cm13g09> yay - new keyboards :)
[18:15] <Willdude123> YO9ICT: will try it
[18:15] <YO9ICT> Willdude123 , with some practice, you can simulate a full Apollo mission
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[18:24] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: I now have that hard disk - so cue a reinstall of the laptop :P
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[18:24] <cm13g09> this time as a dual-boot 250/250 ;)
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[18:35] <Willdude123> YO9ICT: I think KSP is a bit better
[18:37] <YO9ICT> Willdude123 , I do not know KSP, but for Orbiter you can get tons of new addons/missions/vehicles/textures and so on at orbithangar.com
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> YO9ICT, Orbiter rocks
[18:38] <Lunar_Lander> I am sad that currently my only Windows machine has the resources to run Orbiter at 2 fps
[18:38] <YO9ICT> Yes, The main disadvantage is that Orbiter requires many resources...maybe too many !
[18:41] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
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[18:44] <YO9ICT> Lunar_Lander, check message
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[19:07] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, best way to spend new years eve
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[19:08] <cm13g09> lol - I beg to differ
[19:09] <chrisstubbs> Yeah I have spent a new years eve installing XP before.. dont judge ;)
[19:09] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: see PM
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[19:17] <Lunar_Lander> chrisstubbs, which OS this time?
[19:18] <chrisstubbs> hahaha no im messing with EvvGC firmware then going to the pub
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[23:00] <BrainDamage> Happy New Year!
[23:00] <gonzo_> the joys of international IRC, being able to say HNY 24 times in a day
[23:02] <cm13g09> gonzo_: There's #newyears for that ;)
[23:02] <cm13g09> sorry - #freenode-newyears
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[23:04] <gonzo_> I saw an annoucement abouut that. Is saying HNY like smoking? You have to go somewhere designated and out of the way to do it??
[23:04] <fsphil> like google's new year logo
[23:05] <cm13g09> gonzo_: no - but I think it's more a case of that's where everyone's doing it ;)
[23:05] <cm13g09> unless you're dan408_ - then you should PM him
[23:05] <cm13g09> (since he wasn't getting enough PMs :P)
[23:05] <fsphil> I've been kicked off freenode twice today
[23:05] <fsphil> they seem a bit fragile
[23:05] <gonzo_> anyone going to send off a new year hab?
[23:06] <cm13g09> fsphil: loving the logo
[23:06] <cm13g09> wonder what happens at midnight?
[23:06] <gonzo_> I would, but too much scotch to be building up a tracker now!
[23:06] <cm13g09> does the 3 make an exit....
[23:06] <fsphil> I would but it would head north and get lost in scotland
[23:06] <gonzo_> northerly is ideal for me!
[23:07] <fsphil> I'd need a receiver station in aberdeen
[23:07] <mattbrejza> https://www.google.co.uk/logos/doodles/2014/new-years-day-2014-6382396563783680-hp.gif
[23:07] <gonzo_> I used to go up there regularly, well passed, top fraserburgh
[23:08] <fsphil> spoilers!
[23:08] <ike> there is balloon in the air https://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=chinese+balloon
[23:08] <ike> they launch them every hour
[23:08] <fsphil> oh no it's changed again
[23:08] <fsphil> http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=4c5e95362734a9ffc8ebb88fc815be45fefd3963
[23:08] <fsphil> actually the met office will be launching :)
[23:08] <gonzo_> there is a hill called something like mintlaw. It has two sodding big concrete dishes, part of the old traopscatter comms system
[23:09] <gonzo_> High Ace?
[23:10] <gonzo_> 800 meg area at about 20kW. All turned off when band 4/5 TV came about
[23:12] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> The Sondes have normally launched by now and will appear about 23:18 if in range - HNY HAB'ers
[23:15] <Geoff-G8DHE-M> You want a Concrete Dish ? Try these http://www.360cities.net/image/sound-mirror-denge-three-mirrors-england#41.60,-11.10,26.4
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[23:35] <gonzo_> the fireworks going here, andto top it, the biggest clap of thunder
[23:36] <gonzo_> apparently there was a section of the cliffs of dover that were roughly parabolic, they tried putting a mic at the ficus, pre radar days
[23:37] <gonzo_> the mintlaw ones are 20mtr I think
[23:41] <gonzo_> ah, it was Mormond Hill
[23:42] <gurgalof> the fireworks were meh
[23:43] <gurgalof> should have a balloon camera and film the fireworks...
[23:43] <tweetBot> @NORB_HAB: Wishing everyone a happy new year for 2014 from NORB. Lets hope we have a year of great balloon/rocket success #ukhas
[23:47] <gonzo_> first lightning, hail now. is this the end of the world?
[23:47] <gonzo_> best use up the last of my h2
[23:47] <gurgalof> yey, hydrogen
[23:48] <gurgalof> we have better uses for helium than sending it out in space
[23:49] <gonzo_> cooling superconductors, and squeaky voices
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[23:58] <cm13g09> oh dear... 23:55:48 they start playing "The Final Countdown" on the radio station I have one....
[23:58] <cm13g09> I have a hunch it's 4 minutes 12 long.....
[23:58] <arko> excellent
[23:58] <cm13g09> somebody has been planning that one....
[23:59] <gonzo_> but a bugger if you are listening on DAB
[23:59] <gonzo_> as it's a few sec out
[23:59] <mfa298> assuming that the station I'm guessing it is I'm not surprised
[00:00] --- Wed Jan 1 2014