highaltitude.log.20131227

[00:00] <fsphil> ssdv at the moment uses rtty
[00:00] <fsphil> which is probably its biggest flaw
[00:00] <mfa298> I've had reasonable results receiving plain old sstv on HF
[00:00] <fsphil> yea sstv can work well
[00:01] <fsphil> it's a nice mode
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[00:03] <Willdude123> fsphil ssdv is a data format, not type, right?
[00:04] <fsphil> yea
[00:04] <fsphil> it could be made to work over any digital mode
[00:05] <Willdude123> Could someone transmit it with a different datamode?
[00:05] <Willdude123> Sorry
[00:05] <Willdude123> That message came through after I sent that
[00:06] <mfa298> we just need to find a supported digital mode with 8bit ascii char set and a good bitrate.
[00:06] <Willdude123> D STAR DD?
[00:07] <mfa298> supported as in supported by fldigi - or that we can add an ssdv encoder/decoder to
[00:07] <Willdude123> You would need to reverse engineer it
[00:08] <fsphil> easier to make a new one
[00:08] <Willdude123> True
[00:09] <Willdude123> Urgh I think ima start using lynx and mosh because this is annyoing me now
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[00:10] <Willdude123> Actually doesnt work as no arrow keys on android
[00:15] <Willdude123> What about the drm mode for digital sstv?
[00:15] <Willdude123> Could we not have implemented that instead of inventing ssdv?
[00:16] <mfa298> I'm not sure it would work that well on an ISM type link
[00:23] <gonzo_> nice, the google graphic is kepler's b'day
[00:25] <Willdude123> Do you say 73, 7 3 or 7 and 3?
[00:27] <mfa298> usually seventy three's
[00:27] <SpeedEvil> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/kepler.jpg
[00:33] <Willdude123> Codec2 looks rather interestimg
[00:34] <Willdude123> What's fixed point mathas?
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[00:36] <SpeedEvil> Floating point numbers have a datatype with two parts - a mantissa and an exponent.
[00:37] <SpeedEvil> In decimal terms - this would be one number from 0-10, and one exponent - which specifies what you multiply it with.
[00:38] <SpeedEvil> So, if you have four decimal digits, you can instead of storing 0-9999 - store 0-99^99
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> Fixed point is basically just carefully picking the range of an integer so that it is appropriate - rather than using floating point.
[00:39] <SpeedEvil> This can be both more accurate for a given data length, and faster.
[00:42] <Willdude123> Okay
[00:42] <ike> Willdude123 you didn't get it
[00:42] <ike> ;)
[00:42] <ike> Floating point numbers are the regular Floating point numbers
[00:43] <ike> but Fixed point is like doing math in cents instead of dollars
[00:43] <ike> if you have $2 and $3 you just add 200+300 = 500 cents
[00:44] <Willdude123> No I got it
[00:44] <Suns> Hello All
[00:45] <ike> Willdude123 how will you represent 7345 cents using Floating point numbers?
[00:45] <mfa298> Hello Suns
[00:45] <Suns> Do someone have tested transmissions in the 160m band from ballons?
[00:46] <mfa298> I don't think anyone has done a payload using 160m as the antenna would likely need to be too big to be sensible
[00:47] <ike> mfa298 but what if he is using ionosphere as an antenna
[00:47] <mfa298> I have heard of people using balloons for a 160m vertical for a ground station but you might need to check local regs to see if it's allowed
[00:47] <Suns> 1/4 antenna will be 40m but i did think in using less than 1;4
[00:48] <mfa298> some people have tried short antennas for higher frequencies with low power and not had much sucess.
[00:48] <Suns> like a small tunned loop
[00:49] <mfa298> depending on where you are in the world if you can run a bit more power you might manage a slighly more in-efficient antenna.
[00:49] <Willdude123> ike 7.345^1000
[00:49] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: 160m wire is really light
[00:50] <mfa298> the other issue with having longer bits of wire on the payload is you want to be very certain of not landing on powerlines.
[00:50] <Willdude123> Suppose you do have a lot of height to dangle it
[00:50] <ike> Willdude123 OK, now in Fixed point
[00:50] <mfa298> you might not be very popular if you're the cause of a major blackout
[00:51] <Willdude123> ike 73.45 dollars
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: use the right wire.
[00:52] <SpeedEvil> Palladium coated aluminium
[00:52] <ike> Willdude123 good, now you can mine bitcoins in your head and calculate GPS coordinates
[00:52] <Willdude123> hey god's the cause of most blackouts and he's still pretty popular
[00:52] <Suns> ok. I get a economic way of generating in the 160m band with CW or feldhell.
[00:52] <Suns> with the microcontroler only.
[00:53] <gonzo_> more worrying is the risk of leaving a bit of wire dangling ftom a pylon and killingsomeone
[00:54] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: hence palladium/Al
[00:54] <gonzo_> though wet nylon is prob as bad
[00:54] <ike> Suns there was some guy here with CC430 only microcontroler
[00:54] <gonzo_> what would thatdo SpeedEvil?
[00:54] <ike> CC430 pulling it's own xtal
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: It has a very large heat of alloying - large enough to completely melt the metal
[00:55] <SpeedEvil> gonzo_: this means that if you melt one end of the wire, it rains down in a shower of tiny tiny metal spheres.
[00:56] <mfa298> so death by molten metal rather than electrocution.
[00:56] <gonzo_> magnesium. Would give an interestig display too
[00:56] <gonzo_> someone tried to get a similar effect in the early 40's
[00:56] Action: mfa298 can see this being daily fail front page material
[00:57] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR-qbK3fhzU
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[00:58] <ike> so ... what will hapend if someone use 40m thin transformer wire as an antenna?
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[00:58] <ike> it will not cause any damage
[00:58] <Willdude123> Ah the daily mail
[00:58] <Willdude123> My granddad reads the daily mail
[00:58] <SpeedEvil> In practice, it's not going to get hung up
[00:59] <Willdude123> As you could probably tell from his homophobic, racist and xenophobic comments
[00:59] <Suns> how do you get paladium? uhauhauh
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[01:00] <mfa298> suns where are you based ?
[01:00] <Suns> são paulo brazil.
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[01:02] <mfa298> you may be better off starting on a higher band.
[01:04] <mfa298> assuming you're thinking of doing it under an amateur radio license you may also want to check it's allowed airborne. Some backwards countries (like the uk) dont allow amateur radio airborne
[01:04] <Suns> yeah, currently i´m using 433mhz transmitters
[01:04] <SpeedEvil> Suns: ebay.
[01:05] <Suns> yeah i did find about the uk. it airborn radio is ok here. the launch permission is a bad dream.
[01:05] <SpeedEvil> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Palladium-Wire-99-99-008-2mm-x-1-30cm-Cut-to-Length-/370776997232?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item565407fd70
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[01:18] <Suns> powerlines is a problem with 40m wire... have a lot here everywher
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[01:25] <Suns> netsplit?
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[01:43] <ike> do more floaters http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/a9dzbpj_460s_v1.jpg
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[07:38] <VK4HIA> Who do I talk to to get my paload config approved?
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[09:16] <tweetBot> @daveake: Blog post about tomorrow's rather interesting #raspberrypi flight http://t.co/CVCDe0AX0A #UKHAS
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[09:49] <OH7HJ> Searching around 437.700, nothing yet here in loc KP42.
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[09:53] <x-f> maybe brought down by rain or snow by now, its altitude was quite low
[09:53] <OH7HJ> x-f, thank you for your listening report on http://www.oh7ab.fi/foorumi/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=239&sid=2e1ce688f0e12f491930e5832bf6b5a4&p=1205#p1207
[09:53] <x-f> no problem :)
[09:54] <OH7HJ> Yes, it may be down, but let's hope it isn't...
[09:54] <x-f> OH7HJ, SP9UOB is launching a 15m beacon tomorrow, are you aware of it?
[09:55] <x-f> approximate prediction - http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=e3598526f0babb9d74fe1b15a4806f660af94201
[09:57] <x-f> SEBA-6/ORIENT EXPRESS: SEBA6-HF - 21.115 MHz USB, DominoEX 22 with RSID & SEBA6-UHF - 437.600 MHz USB, RTTY 50 baud, 470 Hz, 7N1
[09:57] <x-f> tomorrow 9 UTC
[10:03] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[10:15] <OH7HJ> Thank you for the 15 m balloon info! Will be listening to it!
[10:18] <x-f> if it follows that prediction, 70cm might be audible for you too
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[10:36] <fsphil> oh is that launch today?
[10:36] <fsphil> my HF antenna appears to still be there
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[10:48] <x-f> tomorrow, fsphil
[10:56] <fsphil> ah
[10:56] <fsphil> ta
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[11:16] <mikestir> fsphil: what antenna do you use on hf?
[11:19] <Reb-SM3ULC> No sign of SP3OSJ?
[11:20] <fsphil> mikestir: basic vertical with a few radials. about 5m tall
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[11:22] <mikestir> ok. trying to find someone with experience of OCF dipoles - seems there are various designs each with relative merits
[11:23] <fsphil> my first antenna was similar to that, worked fairly well but difficult to setup in a small garden
[11:24] <mikestir> it would be quite good in my garden. feed point on a mast at the back of the house, long leg down the garden, short leg back over the roof (which is hipped, so plenty of free space)
[11:26] <mikestir> seems there are designs for a 1/3 feed point, and another about 1/5, which seems to do more bands less well
[11:28] <fsphil> I would imagine the closer to a proper dipole the better
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[11:32] <mfa298> for a dipole the way I understand it the length affects the resonant frecuencies, where the feedpoint is will impact the impedance.
[11:32] <mfa298> with an offset feedpoint (like the carolina windom) you get a better impedance match over more bands.
[11:33] <cm13g09> morning mfa298
[11:33] <mfa298> morning cm13g09
[11:36] <mikestir> mfa298: The way the various OCF designs seem to be derived are by drawing the current distribution on the bands of interest and picking a feedpoint where the impedance will be roughly the same on each, then matching accordingly
[11:38] <mikestir> the bit I'm particularly wondering about is the feedpoint impedance in practice, since I've seen designs using anything between a 4:1 and 9:1 balun
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[11:39] <mfa298> the other approaches I've seen for having something well matched on several bands are trap dipole or fan dipoles.
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[11:40] <mfa298> I think half the time people chuck in a balun because it's a balanced antenna with unbalanced feeder (assuming coax) so you *need* a balun, without really knowing what it's doing.
[11:42] <mikestir> possibly. certainly there are a lot of 4:1 designs, so maybe those using higher ratios are just plain wrong!
[11:43] <mfa298> for a basic centre fed dipole I think the feedpoint is around 27R so 4:1 would seem better than 9:1
[11:44] <mfa298> I think that increases as you move away from the centre.
[11:44] <mfa298> probably needs some modelling in eznec
[11:45] <tweetBot> @tyrower: "@daveake: Blog post about tomorrow's rather interesting #raspberrypi flight http://t.co/srbzPBwZN8 #UKHAS" @makerlandconf look up friends!
[11:46] <mfa298> then again as I've only ever done temporary antennas I generally stick up some wire with ladder line into a balanced ATU which has worked pretty well at time.
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[12:41] <Andrew-M6GTG> FYI Russian EVA-37 underway on ISS, downlink was audible on 143.625MHz on last pass.. couple of nice UK/Europe passes to follow
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[13:44] <malgar> Andrew-M6GTG: I have an SDR usb.. What kind of antenna should I need to be capable of receiving something from ISS?
[13:45] <Andrew-M6GTG> it will be strong signal so a simple antenna should surfice
[13:46] <happysat> got a pass in 11 minutes tuning in ;)
[13:47] <fsphil> 143.625 FM? or AM?
[13:49] <Willdude123> Reading up on codec2
[13:49] <Willdude123> Sounds quite interesting.
[13:52] <Andrew-M6GTG> fm
[13:53] <fsphil> thanks
[13:53] <fsphil> tuned in
[13:53] <fsphil> 2 minutes until the pass begins here
[13:53] <happysat> 79,8 eval?
[13:53] <Andrew-M6GTG> might be a lot of grunting and breathing and not much else ;-)
[13:53] <happysat> lol
[13:54] <Willdude123> This looks rather interesting
[13:54] <Willdude123> http://www.vpa-systems.pl/crossband-yagi-144430-mhz-47-el-100cm-p-158.html
[13:54] <fsphil> is this the downlink or the actual suit comms?
[13:55] <fsphil> should be above my horizon now
[13:55] <fsphil> not hearing anything
[13:59] <happysat> i hear them !
[13:59] <fsphil> ah here we go
[13:59] <happysat> female voice
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[14:01] <happysat> russian
[14:02] <mikestir> wow big signal
[14:02] <x-f> i don't actually hear them but i see the signal on the waterfall, strongish
[14:02] <fsphil> lovely signal here
[14:04] <fsphil> and gone
[14:06] <happysat> yea
[14:07] <x-f> http://i.imgur.com/Ba8FG1p.png
[14:07] <happysat> that was nice https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/124465398/ISS_Voice.png
[14:07] <mikestir> next pass half 3
[14:08] <Andrew-M6GTG> three nices passes today, might be able to see the one around 17:00 ;-)
[14:09] <happysat> for nl it should be
[14:09] <happysat> 2013-12-27 16:34:05 ISS 281.8 2.0 2.4 2179 232.1 -0.6
[14:09] <happysat> 2013-12-27 16:39:06 ISS 197.1 83.7 -1.4 427 233.0 -1.2
[14:09] <happysat> 2013-12-27 16:44:08 ISS 106.1 2.0 2.0 2182 234.0 -1.9
[14:12] Action: Reb-SM3ULC in env
[14:12] <Reb-SM3ULC> y
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[14:14] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: whats your max-el for the passes?
[14:16] <x-f> 32 degrees
[14:18] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: ah ,i think i have a max aoubt 20
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[14:20] <x-f> Reb-SM3ULC, there is a really small but nevertheless a hope that it will get boosted to a higher orbit :)
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[14:26] <solarballoonman> Anthony Stirk on here?
[14:26] <UpuWork> I am
[14:27] <solarballoonman> ok, just wanted to say something about tomorrows flight.
[14:27] <UpuWork> shoot
[14:27] <solarballoonman> re the droping of no chute stuff. This also aplies to kites. Yet at a festival a few years ago I droped..
[14:28] <solarballoonman> aprox 100 paper helicopters, with the police watching!
[14:28] <solarballoonman> And it was from about 1000 ft too.
[14:28] <UpuWork> did they say anything ?
[14:28] <solarballoonman> No.
[14:29] <UpuWork> We know NOTAMS have been refused for people asking to do this
[14:29] <solarballoonman> Ahh, might have been ok due to the festival NOTAMS
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[14:30] <solarballoonman> there were a number of parachuting teddy bear drops.
[14:30] <UpuWork> parachute
[14:30] <UpuWork> being the word you're looking for :)
[14:30] <solarballoonman> :P
[14:31] <UpuWork> although technically I doubt they would permit that either
[14:31] <UpuWork> anyway
[14:31] <UpuWork> north sea or bust
[14:31] <UpuWork> afk a few
[14:32] <solarballoonman> unless the direction has changed, looks like your going to be going up country, then towards scandinavia.
[14:33] <solarballoonman> according to the arrows on the map this morning.
[14:33] <solarballoonman> *wind
[14:34] <daveake> No, it should turn east e.g. http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=7bd9f323adb10bf571d9317b0ac12de83fec9961
[14:37] <nats`> some of you already played with the TI sitara serie ?
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[14:40] <solarballoonman> daveake/UpuWork:- ok. looks to be N-E direction on the weather map. http://metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/uk_forecast_wind.html
[14:40] <UpuWork> thats ground level
[14:40] <UpuWork> Contrast : http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/1000hPa/orthographic=0.01,55.08,1768 (Ground)
[14:40] <UpuWork> http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/10hPa/orthographic=0.01,55.08,1768 (26Km)
[14:42] <solarballoonman> I see what you mean.
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[14:44] <solarballoonman> UpuWork:- all the flight stuff, planes,parachute payload etc going to be on Spacenear?
[14:44] <ike> nats` you can ask at #43oh but I doubt it
[14:44] <UpuWork> yes solarballoonman
[14:46] <solarballoonman> should look good when the planes drop. Expect them to dive straight down for a bit, then start to glide.
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[14:47] <solarballoonman> look somewhat like a 'lifting body' in shape.
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[14:51] <Reb-SM3ULC> solarballoonman: i hope it will go scandinavia :)
[14:51] <Reb-SM3ULC> solarballoonman: have not seen a balloon around for almoste three months
[14:53] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: higher inclination would be nice... about 60 would be ok with me... :)
[14:54] <x-f> i meant just the altitude :)
[14:54] <x-f> be real, man!
[14:55] <Reb-SM3ULC> haha
[14:56] <solarballoonman> Reb-SM3ULC:- Only seen two so far in my 53 years.
[14:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> x-f: i was just kigging... i might add... :)
[14:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> s/gg/dd
[14:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> urc in car no good
[14:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> irc
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[15:04] <gb73d> Hi I am getting my uhf gp rx ready for tomoz 0900 utc polish balloon abd 1100 utc brightwalton
[15:04] <gb73d> M1ELK nr Reading
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[15:08] <gb73d> good luck
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[15:17] <gb73d> bbl
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[15:19] <solarballoonman> BOOM!! :)
[15:23] <nats`> it's so fluffy !!! I'm gonna die !
[15:25] <solarballoonman> ????
[15:25] <solarballoonman> Furry attack?? :)
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[15:28] <solarballoonman> @ nats' well???
[15:29] <nats`> Does it count as annoying ? :D
[15:29] <solarballoonman> what the fluffy thing?
[15:29] <nats`> I need to have that sound as ringtone
[15:30] <nats`> you know the animated movie Me Depicable
[15:30] <nats`> ?
[15:30] <nats`> it's plush unicorn
[15:30] <nats`> :D
[15:31] <solarballoonman> oh. Being smotherd by a large plush, then nats' ?
[15:31] <SpeedEvil> http://imgur.com/gallery/06o2Ivk
[15:32] <nats`> more by a sitara devboard she is so lovely
[15:33] <solarballoonman> oh.
[15:34] <nats`> solarballoonman : http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvbeq9MWxQ1qznis6o1_500.jpg
[15:36] <solarballoonman> Right. You like that unicorn, then. Or have made/got one
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[15:37] <nats`> http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/AM335x_Starter_Kit <= no I love this one :)
[15:37] <nats`> smooth devboard
[15:38] <nats`> I'm wondering if I'll not replace the oven controller I have by this one
[15:38] <solarballoonman> ok, so whats fluffy then?
[15:38] <nats`> ps temperature correction :D
[15:38] <nats`> nevermind it's a stupid internet meme :)
[15:39] <solarballoonman> ok, don't get it. Probably to old. :)
[15:40] <nats`> you say it when something is really tooooo cool :)
[15:40] <ike> nats` I think that if you preffer TI you should go with BeagleBone Black not sitara
[15:40] <nats`> someone gave me the devboard (new one) :D
[15:40] <nats`> I usually don't use such big devboard
[15:40] <nats`> raw nerd board are better no display no button no interface :D
[15:41] <nats`> ike anyway why not the sitara ?
[15:42] <ike> IDK
[15:42] <ike> i like beaglebone
[15:42] <ike> it's cheap and powerfull
[15:42] <mikestir> the processor on the beaglebone is a sitara isn't it?
[15:42] <ike> and there are many hackers using it
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[15:43] <nats`> if yes it can't be more powerfull than this one
[15:43] <nats`> it's the bigger sitara available on it
[15:43] <ike> http://www.ti.com/product/am3358
[15:43] <ike> http://beagleboard.org/products/beaglebone%20black
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[15:44] <solarballoonman> going till later. Bye. /quit fluffy = cool.???
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[15:45] <nats`> ike pretty cool but too big for me the devboard he gave me will just be used for the screen
[15:45] <nats`> to be honnest I don't have any idea of what I could do with that
[15:45] <nats`> I'll not use it to blink led :D
[15:46] <nats`> ohh seeing the board that could be possible to run fl-digi on it
[15:46] <nats`> there are sound entries
[15:46] <nats`> and usb
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[15:46] <nats`> maybe the solution for my "outdoor" station
[15:50] <mfa298> I suspect it's going to be a close thing getting the BeagleBone Black to run dl-fldigi. a few people have tried it on the pi and that't not got enough cpu
[15:51] <mfa298> although Ive seen reports of plain fldigi working on the pi
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[15:51] <nats`> I don't even want to hear about RPI anymore
[15:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
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[15:52] <nats`> hi SP9UOB-Tom
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[15:52] <nats`> mfa298 they did big crappy design choice in my opinion
[15:53] <SpeedEvil> mfa298: I've run fldigi (not dl) on my n900 (600MHz arm)
[15:55] <mfa298> well for pi, one of the first aims was to get it down to a certain price point and for it to be useable for people to learn things like python with some basic io rather. Other platforms may not have worried about price as much initially.
[15:56] <nats`> that's possible but I had really bad experience with the usb/eth stuff + two of them died in a weird way
[15:56] <nats`> I'm condering if the RAM stacking over the cpu bga is good enough
[15:56] <nats`> wondering
[15:57] <mfa298> I think the only issues i've had so far with them is power which is partly design on the early model B's and partly bad psu modules
[15:57] <wd8mnv> seeedstudio has beaglebone for like $30 right now (not the black)
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[16:00] <mikestir> mfa298: I had a play with xnec - it's surprisingly easy to get to something that will work on 40, 20, 15 and 10m, and 200 ohms is a nice compromise on impedance across the bands. I'm just going to order a balun and give it a try.
[16:01] <SpeedEvil> Doesn't Willdude123 have a beaglebone. If so - does fldigi work on it?
[16:01] <mfa298> shouldn't be too hard to make a balun, although making sure it's got a suitable power rating might be harder
[16:02] <nats`> IIRC Beaglebone black has a more powerfull cpu
[16:03] <mfa298> from what I rememer BBB CPU > Pi CPU but the pi has the addition of a GPU (but details are subject to NDA meaning it may not be as much use currently)
[16:04] <mfa298> although I think there's some work to reverse engineer the gpu
[16:04] <mikestir> bbb has a GPU as well
[16:04] <nats`> if it's sitara it has a powervr
[16:04] <nats`> not sure how it's open but it has it
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[16:12] <nats`> Too fluffy day time to go home :)
[16:12] <nats`> see ya nerds ! :)
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[16:55] <cm13g09> so.... am I going to pick anything up tomorrow?
[16:55] <cm13g09> (the big question)
[16:57] <daveake> dunno. where are you?
[16:58] <cm13g09> Chelmsford, Essex
[16:58] <daveake> easy peasy
[16:58] <cm13g09> lol
[16:58] <cm13g09> you say that.....
[16:58] <daveake> I do
[16:58] <cm13g09> that's what people have said the last N times I tried to track anything
[16:59] <LeoBodnar> a paper clip and cat's whiskers detector are enought
[16:59] <daveake> If you can't get these ones, something's broken
[17:00] <cm13g09> daveake: erm.... I wouldn't say that :P
[17:00] <daveake> I would
[17:00] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs I think understands what I'm talking about :P
[17:00] <cm13g09> The clue lies in the fact that I've got a dipole *inside*
[17:00] <cm13g09> because I can't put one up outside!
[17:01] <daveake> Even a 1/4 wave on top of a car will do it
[17:01] <cm13g09> lol
[17:01] <cm13g09> we'll have a go then
[17:01] <daveake> Inside is unlikely to work well
[17:01] <cm13g09> yeah
[17:02] <cm13g09> whether I have a 1/4 wave.....
[17:02] <chrisstubbs> try and get it on the right side of the house at least cm13g09
[17:02] <cm13g09> I have what we think are 1/4 waves ;)
[17:02] <Andrew-M6GTG> I have a couple of old coathangers in my loft that do a good job.. a case of try it and see ;-)
[17:02] <daveake> If you have a window facing the flight, an aerial fixed to the window will do it
[17:02] <cm13g09> daveake: OK
[17:02] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: are you around tomorrow?
[17:02] <daveake> 1/4 wave is just a 164mm piece of stiff wire
[17:02] <chrisstubbs> I am indeedy
[17:02] <chrisstubbs> need to set my SDR and radio up ready
[17:03] <cm13g09> lol
[17:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> Clamp a a bit of 2x2 to the window ledge and mount an x-50 on the end of it ?
[17:03] <daveake> I used to do pretty well with a small yagi taped to the window frame
[17:03] <daveake> The key is to be on the right side of the house!
[17:03] <cm13g09> daveake: heh
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[17:04] <cm13g09> this sounds like an emergency trip for some more RG58
[17:04] <Geoff-G8DHE> How far are you below the roof line ?
[17:04] <number10> north side if you are chelmsford
[17:04] <cm13g09> Geoff-G8DHE: I'm about 3-4m
[17:05] <cm13g09> (yes, damn tall house)
[17:05] <daveake> RG58 ?
[17:05] <daveake> If you need "more" you actually need something else
[17:05] <daveake> Horrid stuff at UHF
[17:05] <cm13g09> lol
[17:05] <cm13g09> fair enough
[17:05] <Geoff-G8DHE> Not that bad, your never going to be in an ideal spot, but get the aerial as far from the window as possible
[17:06] <daveake> http://www.w4rp.com/ref/coax.html
[17:06] <Geoff-G8DHE> That was the location not the co-ax!
[17:07] <daveake> I've never quite understood how come 10 metres of RG58 attenuates the signal so much more than just moving 10 metres further away from the transmitter :)
[17:07] <cm13g09> daveake: yes, it'd be nice to have some decent coax....
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[17:07] <chrisstubbs> cm13g09, I can lend you a yagi or magmount for 70cms
[17:07] <chrisstubbs> unless my x-50 has come down
[17:08] <cm13g09> ok
[17:09] <mfa298> cm13g09: go buy a drum of RG213 or Westflex 103.
[17:09] <cm13g09> heh
[17:09] <mfa298> the way prices are going it's a good investment.
[17:09] <cm13g09> fair enough
[17:09] Action: mfa298 goes to look at the current cost of the 103
[17:10] <mfa298> £140 for 100m now, I'm sure it was just over £100 when I got mine.
[17:10] <cm13g09> oh yikes
[17:11] <mfa298> that's probably a better investment that putting the money in a bank account
[17:11] <mfa298> RG213 is cheaper and easier to work with especially if it's not fixed
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[17:12] <daveake> I think RG213 is a good compromise cost vs !loss
[17:13] <cm13g09> fair enough
[17:14] <mfa298> rg213tm currently £80for 100m at nevvada (compared to £116 for rg213U)
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[17:23] <Willdude123> Are copper prices rocketing?
[17:23] <mikestir> so what's the difference between rg213tm and rg213u? the latter actually meets the spec?
[17:23] <Willdude123> Can we find a decent alternative to copper?
[17:23] <mikestir> like "real leather tm"?
[17:24] <fsphil> copperique
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[17:24] <mikestir> well I notice virgin are using copper plated steel in their coax now
[17:24] <eroomde> s'all skin effect that those freqs
[17:24] <mikestir> indeed
[17:24] <daveake> yup
[17:25] <mfa298> looks like the U had slighly better braid coverage
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[17:25] <mikestir> I was looking at those on nevada before and was just going to go for the real deal. I bet the cheap stuff goes brittle in the sun as well
[17:26] <mfa298> I can't remember if the drum I've got at home is U or TM. I suspect it's TM and seems to do well enough.
[17:26] <eroomde> i went down a rabbit-hole trying to find microwave, thin, low-loss stuff to embed in a rocket fin
[17:26] <eroomde> turns out there's no upper limit to what you vcan spend
[17:27] <mfa298> I've never had anything permanent enough to have to worry about sun
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[17:28] <mfa298> I think with coax you just decide when to stop doubling the price for the extra 0.1dB you'll gain.
[17:29] <fsphil> or put the radio on the roof
[17:29] <mfa298> so far I've decided the RG213/Westflex 103 is at that point.
[17:29] <mikestir> i'm just going to use RG8X for HF
[17:30] <mfa298> even rg58 is ok for HF unless you're an italian with a many kw linear
[17:31] <cm13g09> hmm
[17:31] <cm13g09> well
[17:31] <ikenightmare> just use FTP cable to put your radio on the roof like fsphil said
[17:32] Nick change: ikenightmare -> ike
[17:32] <cm13g09> seems like problem #1 is my laptop running Linux ;()
[17:32] <cm13g09> *;)
[17:32] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[17:37] <cm13g09> problem #2 is being inside
[17:37] <cm13g09> and problem #3 is that I have a naff ant
[17:38] <cm13g09> if I can fix all 3 of those....
[17:39] <mfa298> quick trip to B&Q and/or maplin will fix #3
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[17:39] <cm13g09> well, I say naff, the M0NSA helped me build it ;)
[17:39] <cm13g09> it works nicely for 2m
[17:39] <cm13g09> and in theory was designed to double for 70cm
[17:40] <mfa298> if it's the 2m B&Q dipole mine does a decent job on 70cms
[17:40] <cm13g09> yes, it's "the" B&Q Dipole ;)
[17:41] <mfa298> I think the basic 70cm GP I made is slighlty better although sometimes it's down which gives the better snr
[17:41] <cm13g09> it sounds like.... what I need to do
[17:41] <cm13g09> is go outside, with a laptop running 7
[17:43] <mfa298> I'd say thats a good starting point
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[17:54] <nats`> yay finally I got my power transistor for the FT857 final stage
[17:54] <nats`> I can repair it :)
[17:56] <fsphil> ooh nice
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[18:04] <Willdude123> Well that was fun
[18:04] <Willdude123> I got some 64 bit drivers for this radio
[18:05] <Willdude123> And it didn't work
[18:05] <Willdude123> It timed out while waiting for data blocks.
[18:05] <daveake> Back in my day, it was "I got some valves for this radio" :p
[18:05] <Willdude123> Also, to make it more fun, there's no support for people using 64 bit systems
[18:07] <mfa298> I've never been convinced it's any faster to use a cable to program memories on a radio then it is to do it by pressing buttons
[18:07] <Willdude123> It probably is a bit
[18:07] <Willdude123> Well
[18:07] <Willdude123> Not
[18:07] <Willdude123> Not if it takes about 3 hours to figure out how to work this useless USB-serial cable
[18:08] <Willdude123> And it really is useless
[18:09] Action: SP9UOB-Tom has finished payloads for tommorow :-)
[18:09] Nick change: number10 -> number10_
[18:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> what a nice prediction :-) http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=de0e06224a7e5afe3c1f0be2dd91aaecad2a2610
[18:11] <mikestir> Willdude123: this is your chinese handy I take it? Are you using CHIRP or the manufacturer's software?
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[18:12] <Willdude123> mikestir: yup
[18:12] <Willdude123> Manufacturer's
[18:13] <mikestir> if you've got a linux box handy then try CHIRP if your radio's supported - most usb-serial cables just work on linux
[18:14] <Willdude123> It'sn ot
[18:14] <Willdude123> *it's not
[18:14] <Willdude123> UV-5R is pretty similar though
[18:14] <Willdude123> Probably won't work though
[18:15] <mikestir> support for mine (UV-B5) was only in the nightly builds, but it worked fine
[18:22] <ike> Willdude123 so do you have some terminal like putty
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[18:24] <Willdude123> Yeah
[18:25] <ike> then try loopback first
[18:25] <ike> shorting Rx and Tx pin of your USB - serial cable
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[19:18] <gb73d> test
[19:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Lime Charlie
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[19:18] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ups LimA
[19:19] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:19] <fsphil> evenin'
[19:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Evening jcoxon
[19:22] <jcoxon> such a different in wind speed between today and tomorrow
[19:23] <OZ1SKY_Brian> seen the problems you have in the south with flooding etc
[19:23] <SP9UOB-Tom> Hi Brian
[19:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi Tom
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[19:38] <gb73d> H2O ev where
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[19:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> qsy
[19:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> oops
[19:50] <gb73d> SP im going to try for ur balloon tomoz HF
[19:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> gb73d: nicee to hear :-)
[19:51] <gb73d> yeah dusted off the radio shack today :)
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[20:03] <Laurenceb_> http://www.atlantikelektronik.de/html/img/pool/M10163.pdf
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[20:05] <Laurenceb_> http://pure.ltu.se/portal/files/496389/Junered-ION-GNSS-2006-published.pdf
[20:05] <Lunar_LanderB> daveake, encountered serious system problem, require total reinstall
[20:05] <Lunar_LanderB> hope to be ready to listen in tomorrow
[20:06] <daveake> ok good luck
[20:06] <Lunar_LanderB> thanks
[20:09] <gb73d> i got my homebrew 446mhz ground plane out of the loft an rubbed it shiny with emery cloth
[20:10] <gb73d> then tested it on 1296mhz beacon S5
[20:10] <gb73d> all working well
[20:11] <gb73d> it improves the skin effect the elements are brass rod welded to an N connector
[20:12] <x-f> Leo will be launching three seperate balloons tomorrow or his three B's will be under a single balloon?
[20:14] <daveake> Not sure exactly but at least 2 balloons
[20:15] <x-f> interesting
[20:16] <x-f> that superlaunch list is huge :)
[20:17] <gb73d> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96783368/2005_01010020mod.jpg
[20:18] <gb73d> thats my ground plane
[20:19] <gb73d> see the Jim75 preamp inline on RG213 just below
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[20:32] <cm13g09> oh my....
[20:32] <cm13g09> tomorrow's going to be busy
[20:32] <cm13g09> do we get any prizes for most number of concurrent trackers from a single location?
[20:33] <eroomde> no
[20:34] <eroomde> you get prizes for doing innovative things
[20:34] <Laurenceb_> so no prizes for me
[20:34] <eroomde> eg with your one radio, oversample to increase the dynamic range so you can get further and nearer habs all with one dongle
[20:34] <eroomde> i'll give you a prize if you do that
[20:35] <gb73d> i got proper radios Yaesu Vr5000
[20:35] <gb73d> AOR8200MkIII
[20:35] <gb73d> i can rx anythiung
[20:35] <cm13g09> eroomde: lol fair enough
[20:36] <cm13g09> chrisstubbs: eroomde has set the challenge
[20:36] <cm13g09> we have to come up with an innovative way to track HABs tomorrow :P
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[20:36] <eroomde> if you have not come across this technique before, it's very interesting
[20:36] <eroomde> it's sort of like the concept of dithering, but in reverse
[20:36] <jcoxon> hellschreiber ticker tape
[20:38] <eroomde> an actual hell tickertape machine will also definitely definitely get a bottle of champgane as a reward
[20:38] <eroomde> has to be real-time, no decoding then printing on your laserjet
[20:38] <es5nhc> Should I make some noise in Estonian ham community? If so, do you have some links for me to point them to?
[20:38] <adamgreig> haha, that would be wonderful
[20:38] <es5nhc> Because judging by wind patterns and that Russian high some stuff could get close to us eventually
[20:38] <adamgreig> why are these big launches always on days I'm travelling :(
[20:38] <es5nhc> high = high pressure area
[20:38] <adamgreig> going back to camb tomorrow morning, where my icom and recently-reacquired colinear are
[20:39] <adamgreig> (jcoxon: I finally recovered my colinear :P no sign of the 50m of W103 though)
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[20:40] <adamgreig> I wonder if those thermal printers from sparkfun could move paper fast enough for hell
[20:40] <jcoxon> adamgreig, hooray
[20:41] <eroomde> i want a stampy printer
[20:41] <jcoxon> nothing should stay in the hackspace for too long
[20:41] <adamgreig> 50 to 80 mm/s
[20:41] <adamgreig> I feel like that should be fast enough?
[20:41] <adamgreig> just a scaling problem really
[20:41] <adamgreig> jcoxon: only 18 months or so in this case ;)
[20:41] <adamgreig> it still had my name on it!
[20:41] <x-f> es5nhc, http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:superlaunchsat http://www.daveakerman.com/?p=1457
[20:41] <adamgreig> shame I couldn't find the W103 but I don't think that ever went back to the hackspace
[20:42] <gb73d> i have w103 on it i think cant rem its on the discone i think
[20:42] <gb73d> def lower losss
[20:42] <es5nhc> tnx
[20:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Hi what freq is hablab on?
[20:42] <gb73d> than 213
[20:42] <x-f> es5nhc, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ukhas/aFhHsqnE3NY
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[20:44] <number10> frequencies here OZ1SKY_Brian http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:superlaunchsat
[20:45] <jcoxon> hablab is a test is think
[20:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> number10 yes but just didnt see hablab on that list?
[20:45] <OZ1SKY_Brian> jcoxon ah ok i see
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[20:46] <cm13g09> uh oh.... here comes trouble :P#
[20:47] <cm13g09> there was consideration that chrisstubbs may join the madness!
[20:48] <cm13g09> Unfortunately, somebody appears to have stolen *all* the spectrum ;)
[20:48] <es5nhc> http://ukhas.org.uk/projects:dl-fldigi - is this a good link to point to dl-fldigi??
[20:49] <x-f> yes, include a link to the tracking guide, too, on how to set up dl-fldigi
[20:50] <Geoff-G8DHE> HABLAB what freq
[20:51] <eroomde> es5nhc: probably tis instead
[20:51] <eroomde> http://ukhas.org.uk/guides:tracking_guide
[20:52] <eroomde> if you want to add an estonian translation to the mix, that would definitely earn you a gold star
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[20:52] <es5nhc> I am including both - both tracking guide and fldigi software..
[20:54] <eroomde> cool
[20:54] <Geoff-G8DHE> Nothing visible on the band at all so may be its a virtual balloon ?
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[20:59] <jcoxon> its a test
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[21:08] <eroomde> nicholas cage's accent in ConAir (bbc3 just started) is terrible
[21:08] <eroomde> never noticed this before
[21:08] <es5nhc> http://foorum.erau.ee/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4053 (in Estonian)
[21:09] <x-f> i posted a message about superlaunch on Polish forum, got a reply: "It will be impossible to choose what to do! Too much at one time. Tuning knobs will be hot on this day."
[21:09] <es5nhc> hahaha... sdrs ftw
[21:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: there is one already: http://sp7pki.iq24.pl/default.asp?grupa=230409&temat=355524
[21:10] <x-f> sorry Tom, mine was 10 minutes earlier..
[21:11] <x-f> ah that was yesterday
[21:11] <x-f> eek
[21:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
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[21:14] <Geoff-G8DHE> Looks like two B-?? flights then for tomorrow ?
[21:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> looks like 3
[21:15] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 34,35 and 36
[21:15] <Geoff-G8DHE> 34 & 35 on snus 36 ?
[21:16] <daveake> I'm sure Leo will let us all know
[21:16] <daveake> About an hour after launch :p
[21:16] <Geoff-G8DHE> Quite, I'll then have to rush back up stairs rather than watch with me feet up in front of the tele ;-)
[21:17] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i have cancled everything for tomorrow, so im ready, if some of them head this way
[21:17] <Geoff-G8DHE> Big problem is will they all be launched so we only need one set of beams to follow them ;-)
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[21:19] <PE2G> Hello, what's the dial for HABLAB pls?
[21:19] <eroomde> nicholas cage's birth surname is Copolla, he's the director's nephew
[21:19] <eroomde> trivia fun
[21:19] <gb73d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Kqjqx9AZYY&list=PL573E418F297BFD05
[21:19] <Geoff-G8DHE> A virtual dial, its someone playing it back it seems!
[21:19] <gb73d> sugarland i luve em
[21:19] <daveake> It'll be Steve testing his valve control
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[21:20] <PE2G> OK, thanks
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[21:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[21:31] <PE2G> That was a nice excercise ;) I've put the yagi outside and back in again, all within 8 mins, phew.
[21:32] <K9JKM> Aha ... becoming the expert on RYD ... Rapid Yagi Deployment
[21:33] <PE2G> :)
[21:34] <Lunar_LanderB> xD!
[21:35] <PE2G> Rainy and a bit windy here, don't want to leave it outside
[21:41] Nick change: wrea_ -> wrea
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[22:19] <Laurenceb_> http://michelebavaro.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/the-gps-tracker-to-beat-smallest.html
[22:20] <Upu> orly
[22:22] <jcoxon> mwahaha slow-hell
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[22:26] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: that's a decent blog
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> yeah, i should meet the guy
[22:27] <Laurenceb_> seeing as he works in nottingham
[22:28] <eroomde> yeah
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> i might do a new board - se4110 + stm32f429
[22:30] <Laurenceb_> in the new year
[22:31] <eroomde> gluck
[22:31] <gb73d> lol
[22:31] <eroomde> i want to do a dual freq receiver board
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> hardcore
[22:32] <eroomde> but the gps stuff is in hobby territory atm and there's a lot of work in the next 18 months with rockets. might have to take a backseat
[22:32] <Laurenceb_> yeah i have way too many commitments
[22:32] Action: Laurenceb_ is playing with wacky interleaving
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> i think i have an interleaving technique that allows single sample timing offsets using byte memory offsets
[22:33] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: i think he's back in italy now
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> but this stuff is confusing me
[22:33] <Laurenceb_> heh you read more than me
[22:33] <eroomde> yeah,i've had a lot of fun in the last few days revising all the FEC/Comms stuff
[22:33] <eroomde> but it's nothing to do with anything for work
[22:34] <eroomde> dunno if anything'll come of it
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> by "spiralling" the data within the buffer
[22:34] <eroomde> i sort of see what you mean
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> so sample 1, sample 2048+1, sample 2, sample 2048+2 etc would be a trivial case
[22:34] <Laurenceb_> when you take this to the 8bit limit interesting things happen
[22:35] <eroomde> the stms have some fun addressing modes that look promising, though haven't played properly with them yet
[22:35] <gb73d> cya tomos
[22:35] <gb73d> baloonin
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> carrier phase becomes a sram address
[22:35] <Laurenceb_> maybe...
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[22:35] Action: Laurenceb_ brain explode
[22:35] <eroomde> i'm hoping this year will be the year of the stm for me, as there are loads of excuses to use them for work
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> i now have 3 CE approved stm32 work projects :D
[22:36] <eroomde> you can self-certify under lots of circumstances, as i understand it
[22:36] <eroomde> eg i can make my own license-free modules
[22:36] <eroomde> if i self certify
[22:36] <Laurenceb_> and my "make CE documentation" scripts are almost ready..
[22:37] <eroomde> you just have to be able to justify it if asked
[22:37] <Laurenceb_> medical stuff is a pita
[22:38] <Laurenceb_> http://us.moor.co.uk/product/moorldi2-laser-doppler-imager/8
[22:38] <eroomde> oh gosh, i don't want to think about it
[22:38] <eroomde> would never go there
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[23:30] <tweetBot> @AMSAT_UK: UK 434 MHz balloon aims for Poland http://t.co/MIpL29ROHH #amsat #hamr #amateurradio #hab #ukhas
[23:31] <ike> I want that R pi
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[23:33] <mfa298> ike you'll have to travel to Poland if you want it!
[23:33] <ike> I may pass Poland
[23:33] <mfa298> or make your own Pi based payload (it's not hard)
[23:33] <ike> $$seba6 - 21.115 MHz USB DOMEX22 with RSID - 500 mW output
[23:33] <ike> what does RSID mean?
[23:34] <jcoxon> haha
[23:34] <jcoxon> thats not it
[23:34] <mfa298> or not that
[23:34] <arko> yeah im pressure sure thats wrong
[23:34] <jcoxon> ike, its a short preamble
[23:35] <jcoxon> which fldigi uses to understand what settings to use
[23:35] <ike> ok, cool
[23:35] <mfa298> oddly, when I tested this is the first link I got http://www.w1hkj.com/RSID_description.html
[23:35] <mfa298> which is a bit more useful.
[23:36] <mfa298> so the !google feature either fails to work or get's the wrong url ...
[23:37] <arko> are you logged into google?
[23:37] <arko> search results vary based on ip/login/etc
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[23:38] <mfa298> I'm logged in but not from the usual location (only got IPv4 here :( )
[23:39] <mfa298> but the biased results are probably cookie based rather than IP (mmmm, cookie)
[23:40] <ike> Each RS sequence is composed of 15 symbols of 4 bits, among which 3 (n – 2 x t) contain data. In other words, 12 bits (3 x 4) are available to define the mode number. Consequently, the number of possibilities would be equal to 4096 (2^12).
[23:41] <ike> why not 2^64 and everyone will be happy
[23:41] <adamgreig> it's only like 200 anyway
[23:41] <adamgreig> read on
[23:41] <ike> there will be 2 000 000 000 modes per person on earth with 2^64
[23:42] <adamgreig> possibly overkill considering the additional time or bandwidth you'd have to use
[23:44] <jcoxon> one day i won't spend the evening before the launch constructing the antenna
[23:44] <ike> adamgreig overkill is good for you
[23:45] <mfa298> hopefully thats not the day you spend the evening before launch constructing the pcb and the morning of the launch making the antenna !
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[23:46] <mfa298> ike I think it would be considered overkill when the packet telling you what format to use is longer than the actual information being sent.
[23:48] <ike> 64 bit is nothing!
[23:48] <mfa298> when you're sending it at a low baud rate it could become significant and there's no need for it.
[23:49] <ike> $$SP9UOB = 64 bits and carry no info
[23:50] <mfa298> remember that RSID is at a low baud rate (1.4 seconds for the 12 bits). I can send a complete sentence using RTTY (which isn't that efficent) in the same time at 600bd.
[23:50] <mikestir> come back and say that tomorrow when there's 10 payloads in the air :)
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[23:51] <mfa298> so for a 64bit RSID I could send several sentences of data using an inefficient protocol!
[23:51] <ike> mikestir you need 1 byte for payload in the air
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[23:52] <mfa298> that should probablly have started "so for the time taken to send..."
[23:53] <ike> mfa298 so for this 1.4 seconds you can send 64 bits of data + 32 bits of ECC if you use 100bps
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[23:54] <mfa298> ike, the point of RSID is that it's there to tell the software what mode to use so needs to be slow enough to work on any channel.
[23:55] <mfa298> on a known channel (e.g. RTTY on 434MHz) we know that it can easily manage 600bd.
[23:55] <ike> but it use domino EX 16 right? not RTTY
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[23:56] <ike> so there are 4 bits per boud
[23:56] <mfa298> RSID uses a form of MFSK,
[23:56] <ike> like domino ex 16
[23:57] <mfa298> but it's just a signalling method to tell the software what mode to use. of itself it doesn't carry any useful information.
[23:57] <ike> well if you DCMA it with payload data, then you can have ID, RSID and DATA for that 1.4 seconds
[23:58] <ike> cool right?
[23:58] <mfa298> it's like pressing the number 1 on your TV remote control, it tells the TV how to configure itself, It doesn't tell you what's on or what the weather is. The data you receive having put the right settings in (by pressing that button) does that.
[23:59] <ike> with CDMA you can multiplex usefull data with RSID
[00:00] --- Sat Dec 28 2013