highaltitude.log.20131226

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[07:39] <es5nhc> Morning
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[07:57] <Reb-SM3ULC> morrn
[08:11] <jarod> (OFF TOPIC): Left 4 Dead 2 is free on Steam ... if anyone cares
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[08:27] Action: Reb-SM3ULC thought of SAT1
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[08:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening
[08:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> all
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[09:14] Action: cm13g09 just saw the subject.... This is appropriate: http://bit.ly/1biqD50
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[09:24] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: nice landing in Lithuana :-)
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[09:52] <x-f> good aiming, Tom, right on the edge of SP4MPH coverage :)
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[10:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: ;-) Im wondering why LY4FPV
[10:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: ;-) Im wondering why LY4FPV didnt received
[10:07] <SP9UOB-Tom> any data
[10:08] SP3OSJ (563f462a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.63.70.42) joined #highaltitude.
[10:08] <SP3OSJ> #habhub
[10:10] <nats`> hi
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[10:13] <x-f> SP9UOB-Tom, LY4FPV is jedas here, he has no experience in HAB tracking yet, and he possibly wasn't really equipped for 2m, and your pico was really low on the horizon at that time
[10:13] <x-f> hi, nats`
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[10:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f i see
[10:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, time to small trip to my family:-)
[10:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> see you all
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[11:01] <SP3OSJ> Hi please enter: Doc ID:29aa3a2f2f0a27c1e0c8891794193017
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[11:33] <ike> btw are there #highaltitude forum?
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[11:34] <Darkside> no
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[11:43] <sp9uob> afternoon all
[11:44] <sp9uob> seba6 is at 21.115 USB with RSID (domex22) final tests before launch
[11:48] <bertrik> sp9uob: how do you generate the rsid signal?
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[11:48] <bertrik> with an NTX2B, like dominoex?
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[11:56] <sp9uob> betrik: im using ad9851 no ntx
[11:57] Nick change: DL7AD_ -> AF5LI
[12:03] <ike> sp9uob what antenna did you use?
[12:04] <ike> do you use some buffer for ad9851 or just raw sine output
[12:04] <sp9uob> 1/2 wave dipole
[12:04] <sp9uob> ike: im using its internal comparator to make square wave
[12:04] <ike> 7.5 metre antenna?
[12:05] <ike> isn't internal comparator good only to 1MHz
[12:05] <sp9uob> and then driving bs170 in E class
[12:05] <sp9uob> ike : no
[12:05] <ike> isn't square wave rich of harmonics?
[12:05] <sp9uob> ike: after class E matching no
[12:05] <sp9uob> yes 7.5 metre antenna
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[12:06] <Reb-SM3ULC> sp9uob: cool, works fine?
[12:06] <sp9uob> yes just buy new batteries and lainch
[12:06] <sp9uob> launch
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[12:07] <ike> sp9uob how do you calculate "class E matching" ? is there any site with more info?
[12:07] <Darkside> ike: google it
[12:07] <Darkside> theres a bunch of info for how to do it on HF
[12:08] <bertrik> and you generate the RSID just by varying the oscillation frequency directly? I thought RSID used rather small frequency steps
[12:08] <Darkside> bertrik: its a DDS
[12:08] <Darkside> you can set the carrier frquncy to somthing like 0.02Hz resolution
[12:09] <Darkside> so you just reprogram it at the baud rate of the signal you want to generate
[12:09] <Darkside> RSID is just MFSK
[12:09] <Darkside> which is exactly what DDSes are good at generating
[12:09] <ike> this is DS for bs170 http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/BS/BS170.pdf sp9uob how do you know that this transistor is good for 21MHz?
[12:10] <Darkside> ike: go read about electronics
[12:10] <Darkside> this is not the best place for electronics lessons
[12:10] <nats`> ike it's a mosfet for the details and yes should be enough but what do you want exactly ?
[12:10] <ike> I know that BJ transistors have Ft for frequency
[12:10] <mfa298> you could probably do RSID and similar with the NTX2B but it might depend on the resolution of your PWM or DAC.
[12:10] <Darkside> ike: flying HF is a *serious* proposition
[12:11] <Darkside> and not something you want to be doing on a first flight
[12:11] <Darkside> as it involves big antennas
[12:11] <ike> but what should I look in mosfet for hi-frequency?
[12:11] <Darkside> if you screw up and land across a power line you'll be in a load of shit
[12:11] <nats`> ike if you don't know that that's probably because you miss many stuff before
[12:11] <Darkside> best to get your launch procedure and recovery stuff down pat
[12:12] <Darkside> ike: 21MHz isnt particularly high frquency for a mosfet
[12:12] <nats`> you don't have 1 parameter to qualify a BJT in Frequency
[12:12] <Darkside> but for starters you look for a low gate capacitance
[12:12] <Darkside> particularly for Class D or Class E amps
[12:12] <Darkside> as the aim is to drive it into saturation as quickly as possible
[12:12] <Darkside> and the gate capacitance is the key limiting factor for that
[12:13] <Darkside> you also get capacitanc transfer effects once you hit the gate threshold voltage, but thats a bit harder to figure out
[12:13] <Darkside> but in general there are a bunch of 'known good' FETs that people use for HF Class D/E amps
[12:13] <Darkside> FETs lik the BD170, or the 2N7000
[12:14] <Darkside> some people use the IRF510 (or is it IRF530?) FETs, but they hav too much gate capacitance for my liking
[12:14] <Darkside> so they require way too much drive
[12:14] <Darkside> there's your lsson in Class D/E amplifier component selection
[12:14] <Darkside> i think i've had enough for the night
[12:16] <ike> 10x Darkside
[12:16] <ike> 10x to nats` and sp9uob too
[12:17] <nats`> 10x ?
[12:19] <ike> tanks
[12:20] <nats`> ohh oky
[12:20] <nats`> I don't know if I would go with a RF amp in first for mosfet experiment
[12:21] <nats`> a BF amp and reading some doc + spice simulation to understand a little of
[12:21] <nats`> LF I mean
[12:21] <nats`> like a little sound amplifier
[12:22] <sp9uob> at first You will fry a bunch of mosfets :-) They easilly saturate
[12:23] <cm13g09> morning all!
[12:23] <ike> sp9uob at what voltage is your class E amp?
[12:23] <ike> at 5v?
[12:23] <sp9uob> 12 to 4 V
[12:24] <sp9uob> not constant power ofcourse
[12:24] <sp9uob> it gives 500mW @50 ohm @9V
[12:24] <ike> so you use 9v battery?
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[12:30] <cm13g09> actually... I think I'm in an ISH timezone today....
[12:30] <cm13g09> 12:23 is *not* morning!
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[12:51] <cm13g09> How the heck are FTDI charging £21 for a USB->RS485 adaptor
[12:51] <cm13g09> when I can buy the parts and build it for about 3/4 of that price
[12:51] <cm13g09> including my time!?
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[12:56] <Reb-SM3ULC> cmg13g09: i bought one for about 40...
[12:57] <ike> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-to-RS485-USB-485-Converter-Adapter-Support-Win7-XP-Vista-Linux-Mac-OS-D1-/321257661758?pt=UK_Computing_Parallel_Serial_PS_2&hash=item4acc72e53e
[12:58] <cm13g09> Reb-SM3ULC: hmm
[12:58] <cm13g09> and ike I had found those - I'm not convinced
[12:59] <cm13g09> I like to know what chips are in it
[12:59] <cm13g09> since ftdi_sio is about the only serial kernel module I have loaded
[13:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> cmg13g09: thought i could connect it to the FTX-system in my house, but yet anothter serial(bullshit)-adapter was needed.. for 400 euro...
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[13:32] <solarballoonman> Hi, is steve G8KHW on?
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[13:41] <x-f> can anybody recognize this signal on 21.110 MHz? http://i.imgur.com/VqLigvw.png
[13:43] <x-f> solarballoonman, he visits this channel every now and then as RocketBoy
[13:43] <bertrik> x-f: odd
[13:43] <nats`> weird signal
[13:44] <nats`> isn't it a problem on the receiver ?
[13:44] <x-f> that signal gone now, started and ended suddenly
[13:44] <x-f> receiver ir FCD++
[13:44] <solarballoonman> x-f: thanks.
[13:46] <nats`> that's really weird
[13:49] <solarballoonman> x-f: not sure what it is. Might be interferance, have seen what that looks like on a 'scope'.
[13:50] <solarballoonman> was on 27 MHz though. Scanning at a R/C event several years ago.
[13:50] <solarballoonman> Looked something similar.
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[13:51] <x-f> ok, thanks
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[13:59] <solarballoonman> http://dxcluster.ham-radio.ch/top_50_21_MHz.html Not sure if that will link. But if it does there are several close to 21.110. All are 21.xxx .084, .076, .070, .071, .072.
[14:00] <solarballoonman> So could be causing interferance, if they are close enough, x-f.
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[15:51] <Willdude123> I was thinking since VHF/UHF is probably quite boring, it might be worth getting an HF radi
[15:51] <Willdude123> *radio
[15:51] <Willdude123> Instead of getting an HF/VHF/UHF
[15:55] <YO9ICT> Willdude123, I have an FT-857
[15:55] <YO9ICT> Very interesting on Sporadic-E on VHF late spring to early summer
[15:56] <YO9ICT> The rest of the time, pretty much HF
[15:57] <mfa298> willdude youll find theres a bit more with a radio with ssb. altjough that can still be quiet
[15:58] <YO9ICT> SSB is a must, doesn't matter the band
[16:02] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[16:17] <mikestir> Willdude123: I'm in the process of making this same decision, with one of the local clubs having finally run the exam. I'd be interested to hear what you go for in the end. I have a mk1 IC706 with blown PA that I might be able to fix, but the transistors are obsolete, so an FT-857 was on my radar.
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[16:35] <YO9ICT> mikestir , if you can afford, go for the 897 instead
[16:36] <YO9ICT> muuuuuch better cooling and much less noise from the fans
[16:37] <mikestir> YO9ICT: so more to it than just the internal batteries? I don't see myself doing much portable operation, at least for now, so I wasn't really considering that one.
[16:38] <YO9ICT> I do FSK441 digital mode for meteor scatter in VHF
[16:38] <YO9ICT> and that involves 30 sec RX and 30 sec TX
[16:39] <YO9ICT> sometimes, you need to do that for an hour, at full power on VHF (50W)
[16:39] <YO9ICT> after that, you have the fans working at full speed for another hour and you cannot touch the top of the radio, nevermind the back where the transistors are
[16:41] <mikestir> haven't decided on a budget yet, but I'll take a look
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[16:42] <mikestir> have you got any thoughts on a multi-band antenna? I'm looking at putting up an OCF dipole because I like the idea of avoiding an ATU and I can easily fit a 40m one in - maybe 80m a a push
[16:42] <mikestir> at*
[16:45] <YO9ICT> I have a 40meter (7 MHz band) dipole between two blocks here
[16:45] <YO9ICT> and I also use it on the third harmonic, 21 , with no issues
[16:45] <YO9ICT> very good for intercontinental contacts !
[16:47] <YO9ICT> I also have a VHF 7 el Yagi with azimuth control
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[16:48] <Willdude123> mikestir: I'm looking at a FT-450D atm
[16:50] <Willdude123> http://www.hamradio.co.uk/amateur-radio-main-equipment-base-station-radio-yaesu-base-station-radio/yaesu/yaesu-ftdx5000-pd-2334.php
[16:50] <Willdude123> That seems really quite reasonably priced :)
[16:50] <mikestir> I quite like the idea of having VHF/UHF so I can throw it in the car as well for repeater use, but I suppose I could just use the handy for that
[16:54] <mfa298> mikestir: for a home station I quite like the Kenwood TS-2000, most of the common features are on buttons rather than lots of menus, plus there's a 2nd sub-radio covering 2/70 fm as well as the main all modes HF/6/2/70 on the main radio.
[16:54] <mfa298> some of the icom's eg. IC-7000 seem quite popular as well
[16:54] <mikestir> mfa298: I was looking at that kenwood but it's still on the wrong side of a grand, and I need to consider what I can get past my mrs :)
[16:55] <mfa298> you can probably pick one up 2nd hand for around £800.
[16:55] <mfa298> I think that's what I paid on ebay around 2007 for mine.
[16:57] <mikestir> would be nice to get my 706 working. Needs a pair of MRF255s
[16:59] <mfa298> For car use I think a few people I know use the FT-8900 or similar (10/6/2/70) although I think FM only. - I generally use the FT817 for mobile use. The TS-2000 is a bit large - although it could be boot mounted with the optional remote head.
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[17:05] <mikestir> I bought myself one of those baofeng UV-B5s the other day - they are incredibly good value for money
[17:07] <mikestir> seems to work fine through any of the repeaters I'd expect to work from here
[17:07] <mfa298> it's scary when I think I spent around £150 on my first 2m only handheld radio (although I think that was '96)
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[17:21] <wd8mnv> who buys these? http://www.hamradio.co.uk/amateur-radio-main-equipment-base-station-radio-kenwood-base-station-radio/kenwood/kenwood-ts-990-free-sp-990-pd-4907.php
[17:22] <mfa298> people with more money than sense ?
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[17:22] <mfa298> or maybe just those heavily into contesting.
[17:23] <mikestir> maybe there's a footballer who's also a ham
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[17:24] <mfa298> I suspect if you looked at the specs and features on it there's some nice stuff (I remember looking at the FT-2000 when it was new) but that's a lot more than I'd want to spend on a radio.
[17:25] <mfa298> although no 2m/70cms so no use for habbing :(
[17:26] <wd8mnv> Baofeng needs to make a HF rig : )
[17:27] <mfa298> they also need to do a multimode 2/70 handheld :)
[17:30] <mikestir> I think I'm going to borrow something for a while first, to see if I can run any kind of power without upsetting the neighbours
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[17:37] <fsphil> depends on your neighbours I suppose
[17:38] <mfa298> Stick a big antenna up first without having it connected to anything and see what happens.
[17:38] <Reb-SM3ULC> wd8mnv: people with too much money.. better to buy one half the price twice as often...
[17:39] <wd8mnv> 1/10 the cost 10 time as often at that price
[17:42] <mfa298> wasn't what I was looking for but there's a great story at the bottom of http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=10&f=22&t=668559
[17:44] <mfa298> the one I was looking for went along the lines of someone putting an antenna up on a mast with no cable connected. Neighbour comes around: "You're antenna is interferring with my TV".
[17:45] <Reb-SM3ULC> wd8mnv: :)
[17:45] <mfa298> HAM gets the neighbour to look at his TV antenna: "What's connected to the end of your TV antenna", ... "So we agree a cable is needed for an antenna to work, Now what don't you see connected to my antenna?"
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[17:47] <Willdude123> mfa298: heh
[17:49] <Willdude123> mfa298: I like the bottom one
[17:50] <Willdude123> So this guy is legally causing interference and it's the cable company's fault?
[17:50] <mfa298> more that he was causing interference because they hadn't done their job correctly.
[17:52] <mfa298> the standard recomendation is that if your radio equipment is causing interference and the neighbour approaches you in a sensible way then help them out. you might just need to put a simple filter in or help them use some better coax - rather than the low loss TV stuff people get (it's only low loss compared to a wet piece of string)
[17:54] <mfa298> when I did the RAE the comment made was that one of the worst offending bits of tv stuff people had was a cheap FM/TV booster. which is a wide band preamp with a bit of AGC. When you key-up on 2m that's in its passband so it sees a nice strong signal and reduces the gain killing their weak tv signal.
[17:54] <mfa298> a simple coax filter would probably fix it for not much money.
[17:55] <mikestir> I think that low loss TV coax refers to your wallet rather than its RF carrying capabilities
[17:57] <mikestir> I think a major problem with TV boosters is that installers tend to just use the highest gain one regardless, and they have a poor dynamic range
[17:57] <mfa298> people also put the tv booster in the wrong place (near the TV) rather than next to the antenna (which couples with the low loss coax means it's boosting lots of noise).
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[17:59] <mfa298> when I changed from low loss coax in my flat to ur-70 I found that I could no longer receive a tv signal with no antenna connected (but when it was connected the signal was much better)
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[17:59] <mfa298> and that was only a relatively short length of coax
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[18:01] <Laurenceb_> hi LeoBodnar
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[18:02] <LeoBodnar> yo Laurenceb_
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> today i have been pondering GPS
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> http://www.insidegnss.com/node/2979
[18:02] <Laurenceb_> that was very interesting
[18:04] <Laurenceb_> now i am thinking about a fast aquisition based gps
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[18:04] <Laurenceb_> as it can be done in milliseconds on arm
[18:05] <SpeedEvil> So is it basically exploiting that you don't care about TOW if you know your position to much better than c/1ms
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> (and the satellites position)
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> yes
[18:06] <SpeedEvil> Makes sense.
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> its very interesting from a maths point of view
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> my first thought was why not just use a single time value
[18:06] <Laurenceb_> so you optimise a 4 vector
[18:07] <Laurenceb_> but thats hard to solve as you have lots of valleys each one 1ms wide
[18:07] <Laurenceb_> it makes sense to isolate "satellite time" and "offset time" and optimise a 5 vector
[18:07] <SpeedEvil> There seem to be a hell of a lot of unexplored bits from the 'usual' way GPS is calculated.
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[18:07] <Laurenceb_> but you can still solve with only 4 sats
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> If you don't care about the usual requirements.
[18:08] <Laurenceb_> so now im thinking of a "Real time clock" based gps
[18:08] <SpeedEvil> So basically just your average temperature compensated 32khz thingy.
[18:09] <SpeedEvil> I guess a major issue becomes how fast your nice fast sampling clock and RF stage can come up.
[18:09] <Laurenceb_> RTC -> rough old ephemeris -> work out what sats to look for and approx dopper -> fft aquisition using 1 to 4ms of data-> 5 vectors solver -> initialise the tracking loops directly using this
[18:09] <Laurenceb_> and also correct the RTC - stm32f4 has a pll type RTC compensator register
[18:10] <Laurenceb_> and RTC only needs to be good enough to calculate sat positions
[18:10] <Laurenceb_> so a millisecond or so accuracy
[18:11] <Laurenceb_> this is a very different process to "conventional" GPS
[18:11] <SpeedEvil> If you can predict when a TOW bit edge will occur, and sample then, that might be intersting too. Though possibly not required. It would be lovely if all the TOWs lined up in a manner that you could get a guaranteed bit edge by waking up for 20ms say every 5 mins.
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> I suppose the easiest way to find out would be to see if there is any source of decoded nav messages.
[18:12] <Laurenceb_> yeah but thats relatively demanding from a RTC point of view
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> 5ms/5 min isn't very demanding.
[18:12] <Laurenceb_> hmm i guess
[18:12] <SpeedEvil> ~150ppm
[18:13] <SpeedEvil> I guess it's not needed if you wake up often enough to not slip a millisecond
[18:13] <Laurenceb_> 16.7ppm
[18:13] <Laurenceb_> yeah, it that case its simple
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> - to avoid periodic requirements to do a 'proper' position
[18:14] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking of something that can wake up every 10minutes and lock in 10ms
[18:14] <SpeedEvil> Only having to wake up for more than 10ms every several days to redownload the ephemirides would be quite awesome.
[18:16] <Laurenceb_> yeah, its almost trivial to do, the arm CMSIS library is fast enough to do 16 acquisitions in 30ms if you know the doppler to a hundred hz or so
[18:16] <SpeedEvil> Unless you can cheat, and time your acquisitions over the period to trickle in the almanac :)
[18:17] <Laurenceb_> hand written asm to avoid the saturation instructions and use some signed byte SIMD in the right places would be twice as fast
[18:17] <Laurenceb_> and then you dont need to do all of the FFT butterflys for this
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[18:17] <Willdude123> Laurenceb_: are you a Dr. yet?
[18:17] <SpeedEvil> At some point, you need to say 'screw it' and just use existing code.
[18:17] <Laurenceb_> all in all i think you could get it down to <10ms
[18:18] <SpeedEvil> What's the comparative power of the RF stage and MCU?
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> i think libswiftnav + some asm routines for the heavy lifting might do it
[18:18] <Laurenceb_> ~30mA for RF, 50mA for cpu at 168Mhz
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[19:02] <rogerponts> Hi ! I have a problem installing the SDR software, it doesn't appear the Bulk-in, Interface (Interface 0). But if I unplug the dongle is dissapears one that is called RTL2838UHIDIR. Should I install the driver on this one ?
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[19:04] <YO9ICT> rogerponjts, it should appear as Bulk-in with WinUsb driver if I remember correctly
[19:05] <rogerponts> it doesn't appear
[19:05] <YO9ICT> @ rogerponts sorry
[19:06] <YO9ICT> I cannot help you further, as my SDR dongle is at my secondary home, and thats in another city :-)
[19:06] <rogerponts> when I connect the dongle, on the Zadig screen appears a device called RTL2838UHIDIR
[19:08] <YO9ICT> You need to install WinUsb driver
[19:08] <YO9ICT> Then, it will be recognized by SDR #
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> attn Randomskk
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/12/calxeda/
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> apparently your board is a calxeda breakout
[19:13] <rogerponts> And what does it mean ?
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[19:23] <Laurenceb_> http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/08/hp-cavium-arm/
[19:23] <Laurenceb_> heh its on all arm stories
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[19:28] <rogerponts> Someone could say me if I should install the driver on the RTL2838UHIDIR device, that's which seems to be the dongle ?
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[19:29] <jcoxon> evening all
[19:29] <daveake> evening
[19:30] <daveake> launching tomorrow?
[19:30] <jcoxon> ummm either sat or sun
[19:30] <jcoxon> weather dependent
[19:30] <daveake> ah yeah
[19:30] <daveake> I forgot what day it is :p
[19:31] <daveake> If we alllaunch Sat that'll be quite a lot for our European friends to track
[19:32] <daveake> Amusingly, the new fancy car park in Newbury was showing this on the exit barrier screen earlier http://i.imgur.com/gusDiWO.jpg?1
[19:36] <jcoxon> hehe
[19:36] <jcoxon> daveake, it should be a good day
[19:36] <Upu> going to give the trackers something to do anyway :)
[19:36] <daveake> indeed!
[19:37] <jcoxon> Upu, have you revealed the missions of all your payloads?
[19:38] <Upu> Going to mail the list in a bit
[19:38] <Upu> but this is the plan
[19:38] <Upu> 1600g H2 with an SSDV Pi on it floating
[19:38] <Upu> attached to the balloon is one of my PAVA9's
[19:38] <Upu> hanging below the Pi are 2 paper planes with trackers (hear me out)
[19:38] <daveake> pink paper planes
[19:38] <Upu> We aren't going to release them until we are out of UK airspace over the north sea
[19:39] <Upu> once it gets close to Poland the Pi will cut away
[19:39] <Upu> and the final R9 board will go wherever the balloon goes
[19:39] <jcoxon> okay that is awesome
[19:39] <cuddykid> prediction screen coming to the iOS app soon -> http://i.imgur.com/mv5YFPI.png
[19:40] <jcoxon> i assume its so that we can recover the pi
[19:40] <Upu> but should be SSDV, RTTY, THOR, DominoEX
[19:40] <daveake> So there's a chance it gets recovered, yes
[19:40] <jcoxon> nice
[19:40] <Upu> the paper planes may make it to Denmakr
[19:40] <Upu> err
[19:40] <Upu> Netherlands
[19:40] <arko> neat app
[19:40] <Upu> winds are very very quick
[19:40] <Upu> Leo is also launching under a H2
[19:40] <fsphil> getting stormy here already
[19:41] <Upu> if he gets a float and keeps it they are so quick he can do the full 52' parallel circumference in 80 hours or so
[19:41] <Upu> it will be over the States in 50
[19:41] <jcoxon> Upu we might benefit from a wiki page of all our flights/missions for the weekend
[19:41] <Upu> yup
[19:41] <Upu> soon(TM)
[19:41] <Upu> payload docs etc
[19:41] <daveake> RSN
[19:42] <daveake> Also batc from the launch
[19:42] <daveake> Probably one overall pic and one hab-o-cam
[19:43] <jcoxon> Upu, will do aprs over US?
[19:43] <Upu> yes and switch to said frequency
[19:43] <arko> i hope his payload makes it over here
[19:43] <Upu> probably Canada
[19:43] <Upu> and finally
[19:43] <Upu> he's doing a netted 100g
[19:43] <Upu> for giggles
[19:44] <daveake> We have permission for 3 flights
[19:44] <daveake> So we could do another one :p
[19:44] <jcoxon> so we've got permission for 2 flights
[19:44] <jcoxon> probably will be steve on one and number10 and i on another
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[19:47] <SP9UOB-Tom> evening all
[19:47] <x-f> good evening
[19:47] <Upu> hey Tom
[19:48] <Upu> we are sending you a Pi on Saturday
[19:48] <Upu> and a pile of other stuff
[19:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: aim to Poland :-)
[19:48] Action: SP9UOB-Tom is aiming Japan :-)
[19:48] <Upu> its coming to you and set to cut down over Poland
[19:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: really :) ?
[19:48] <Upu> going to bomb Germany with paper planes on the way too
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[19:48] <Upu> well Netherlands
[19:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> LoL :-)
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[19:49] <LeoBodnar> RSID hmmm
[19:49] <Upu> happy Christmas to our PE's and SP's
[19:49] <Upu> Leo is trying to circumnavigate the globe
[19:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, so i have to prepare rescue mission :-)
[19:50] <Upu> well free Pi
[19:50] <Upu> you just have to drive a few hundred miles to get it
[19:50] <Upu> :)
[19:50] <LeoBodnar> set Pis free
[19:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> well i have (allmost free fuel ;-)
[19:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: whats wrong with RSID :) ?
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> copycat lol
[19:54] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: i dont get it :) ? Explain ?
[19:54] <LeoBodnar> I am doing SSB APRS on 434.500 for a laugh
[19:55] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: lol, i have 300 baud @HF (which is working wery well), next try will be @30m band
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> over UK on ISM terms
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> B-32 used RSID too
[19:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> Leo: ah ok, i see :-)
[19:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: SSB APRS 1200 or 300 baud ?
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> 1200
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> FSK instead of AFSK
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> and AFSK on 2m at the sametim
[19:57] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: yes i see
[19:57] <bertrik> How do you generate the SSB signal?
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> and Contestia 8/1000
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> bertrik: It's not really a SSB signal.
[19:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: Contestia is better than domex? in terms of BER ?
[19:58] <SpeedEvil> bertrik: It's narrowband FM - which uses the SSB reciever almost as a SDR - just to sample 4khz of spectrum
[19:58] <jcoxon> ping eroomde
[19:58] <bertrik> ah ok, "just" wiggling a carrier around ... ?
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> yes
[19:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: any FEC ?
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> yes
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> its Olivia-lite
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> +'
[19:59] <SP9UOB-Tom> so i have to try someday.... now it'll be copycat :-)
[20:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> in fact im bored with RTTY now :-)
[20:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> i have WSPR ready, but i have to make lower power tx
[20:02] <bertrik> WSPR has a 2-minute period, right? So isn't it a bit slow for tracking HABs?
[20:03] <SP9UOB-Tom> bertrik: even 4
[20:04] <SP9UOB-Tom> bertrik: its ok to tracking HAB somewhere over Pacific ocean
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[20:11] <Guest11331> Hi all. New here and to HAB. I've purchased a uBLOX MAX7 and I'd like to hook it up to my Pi. So far i2cdetect sees it at 0xrw.
[20:11] <Guest11331> tbat should be 0x42
[20:12] <Guest11331> but I need some link to help on i2c interface
[20:12] <Guest11331> hoping to learn python, so that would be a preference
[20:12] <Guest11331> links to articles would be great
[20:13] <Guest11331> I've searched the wiki but have not found anything I can use....
[20:13] <Guest11331> anyone point me in the right direction?
[20:23] <LeoBodnar> datasheet
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[20:24] <LeoBodnar> or use UART instead
[20:25] <SP9UOB-Tom> lol reading the f... manual sometimes helps ;-)
[20:25] <Guest11331> OK, good place to start. I'm looking for python examples on how to get anything out of the gps. I can write bytes but where do I start?!
[20:26] <Guest11331> USER is backup plan. aim here is to learn i2c smbus and pyhton
[20:26] <Guest11331> *UART
[20:27] <mikestir> I think I'd be inclined to use the UART for learning and then maybe think about getting i2c working later
[20:29] <Guest11331> fair enough. it's a new module that I don't even know is working so maybe test with serial first
[20:29] <LeoBodnar> i2c is moderately buggy on UBLOX
[20:31] <Guest11331> UART seems easy enough in python. I am correct in thinking reads at 0xff is where the sentences live?
[20:31] <Guest11331> 0xFD for length
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[20:31] <mikestir> http://www.u-blox.com/images/downloads/Product_Docs/u-blox7-V14_ReceiverDescriptionProtocolSpec_Public_%28GPS.G7-SW-12001%29.pdf
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[20:32] <Guest11331> thanks for the link
[20:32] <daveake> You don't need to read the length
[20:32] <daveake> register
[20:32] <daveake> Just read the data register
[20:32] <daveake> If there's nothing there it returns 0xFF
[20:33] <Guest11331> that's useful thanks
[20:33] <daveake> And when you've done that you'll find that the Pi i2c implementation doesn't work with ublox anyway
[20:34] <bertrik> oh, it relies on repeated starts or something like that?
[20:34] <daveake> The ublox does clock stretching whenever it feels like it
[20:34] <daveake> And the Pi h/w can only handle clock stretching at certain points
[20:35] <daveake> So you then have 3 choices
[20:35] <daveake> 1 - accept the missing characters and hope your checksum checks spot them
[20:35] <daveake> 2 - use async serial instead
[20:35] <daveake> 3 - do i2c in software
[20:36] <Guest11331> awesome, that sounds like I may have set my sights a little high with i2c
[20:36] <daveake> I do (3) and it does work very well
[20:36] <Guest11331> bit banging
[20:36] <daveake> Yes
[20:36] <daveake> But it's in C and I suspect you'd struggle to do that in Python without a lot of CPU
[20:36] <bertrik> or perhaps 4 - do i2c really slow?
[20:36] <daveake> tried it
[20:36] <daveake> didn't work
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[20:37] <Guest11331> OK, useful
[20:37] <daveake> i'm not saying it can't be worked around - e.g. perhaps I didn't set i2c clock low enough
[20:37] <daveake> But I couldn't get it to work
[20:38] <Guest11331> I am C but wanted to look at python. maybe my way forward here is serial and python to get me moving
[20:38] <Guest11331> and C and i2c for the rainy days ahead
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[20:40] <fsphil> write a software i2c module in C for python
[20:40] <Laurenceb_> what are you trying to interface with?
[20:40] <Guest11331> thanks for your help diverse, I'm sure to be back with more questions.
[20:41] <Guest11331> Raspberry Pi
[20:41] <Guest11331> and ublox max7
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[20:58] <jcoxon> Upu, daveake, LeoBodnar = http://ukhas.org.uk/ukhas:superlaunchsat
[20:58] <jcoxon> please add
[20:58] <daveake> cheers will do
[20:59] <chrisstubbs> Another launch-a-thon coming up, should be good!
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> hello
[20:59] <jcoxon> going to need a lot of trackers
[20:59] <Lunar_Lander> yes, I moved to 64 bit :)
[21:00] <Lunar_Lander> jcoxon, yeah heard about balloons coming to germany, will try to help
[21:00] <jcoxon> thanks
[21:00] <jcoxon> bbiab
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[21:00] <SP9UOB-Tom> what "Pinhole floater" does mean ?
[21:03] <Lunar_Lander> I think it means a latex balloon which has been pinched with a needle so it doesn't burst
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[21:06] <Willdude123> Had quite a nice contact on GB3FN
[21:07] <Willdude123> Is it acceptable to stick it in my/his QRZ.com logbook?
[21:07] <fsphil> nice
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[21:07] <fsphil> never used qrz.com, assume so
[21:09] <Willdude123> I might even send a QSL card as it's my first major contact
[21:11] <Willdude123> http://www.qrz.com/db/G6DTW he has a really really dificult to read page though
[21:12] <fsphil> you will find this a common theme for amateur radio websites
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[21:13] <Willdude123> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYovou28FpU the you tubes
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[21:36] <OH7HJ-1> Rx QRV and hams informed about balloon.
[21:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> OH7HJ-1: which one :) ?
[21:38] <OH7HJ-1> Both. :)
[21:38] <SP9UOB-Tom> OH7HJ-1: 21 MHz also :) ?
[21:39] <OH7HJ-1> The one coming north, hoping it will get close..!
[21:40] <OH7HJ-1> Your of course! Set Rx listening overnight for its beacon.
[21:42] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SE4110L-R/863-1351-1-ND/2745470
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[21:54] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
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[22:00] <Reb-SM3ULC> SP9UOB-Tom: have you done any nooa-predicts?
[22:01] <LeoBodnar> sweet frontend Laurenceb_
[22:02] <LeoBodnar> do you need floating point for FFT?
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[22:08] <Laurenceb_> no
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> used fixed point
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> it depends on the FFT size
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> 16bit fixed should work for most stuff
[22:08] <Laurenceb_> i have a reel of 4020L, which is 4MHz I/Q complex output
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> slightly friendlier, but i might see if its possible to handle 4110 in software
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> as there are a few very similar frontends to the 4110
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> 4110 is the lowest power, 10ma :D
[22:09] <Laurenceb_> and cheap
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[22:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[22:47] <DL1SGP> hi all
[22:48] <Reb-SM3ULC> good evening
[22:50] <DL1SGP> good evening Reb-SM3ULC hope you had a very fine christmas
[22:50] <Reb-SM3ULC> DL1SGP: jsut fine, though the snow is missing
[22:51] <Reb-SM3ULC> DL1SGP: hope you had a nice one too :)
[22:51] <DL1SGP> true :)
[22:51] <DL1SGP> oh yes, on holidays in denmark, staying here with family
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[23:07] <Lunar_LanderA> hi DL1SGP and hej Reb-SM3ULC
[23:07] <DL1SGP> Guten Morgen Kevin
[23:08] <Willdude123> Man life has been tough since eroomde banned be from talking about my little pony
[23:08] Nick change: DanielRi1hman -> DanielRichman
[23:08] <chrisstubbs> Its for your own good
[23:09] <DL1SGP> well I need to sign out again, be safe everyone!
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[23:09] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs: what's the problem with it?
[23:10] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs: let's just hope he doesn't see this bit.ly/K7oYJY
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[23:13] <Lunar_LanderA> so everyone hopefully has nice holidays
[23:13] <chrisstubbs> Sure have, you too Lunar_LanderA
[23:13] <Lunar_LanderA> yeah :) thanks
[23:15] <Willdude123> Lunar_LanderA: you too
[23:16] <Lunar_LanderA> thanks :)
[23:16] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs: did I mention I made my first contact with someone I hadn't already pre-arranged?
[23:16] <daveake> LL Are you going to be tracking on Saturday?
[23:16] <daveake> We need you :p
[23:16] <Willdude123> It's a little annoying how people call me "the M6"
[23:16] <Willdude123> I'm just like
[23:16] <Willdude123> "I'm not a freaking motorway!!!"
[23:17] <Lunar_LanderA> daveake, yeah
[23:17] <daveake> cool
[23:17] Action: Upu picks himself up off the floor
[23:17] <daveake> :)
[23:18] <daveake> LL have you received SSDV before?
[23:18] <Lunar_LanderA> will get my antenna from uni tomorrow
[23:18] <Lunar_LanderA> not year
[23:18] <Lunar_LanderA> yet
[23:19] <chrisstubbs> too many whisky?
[23:19] <Lunar_LanderA> I think I was trying to receive a SSDV balloon but it was too far away
[23:19] <daveake> This is only 300 baud which is easier than 600
[23:21] <Lunar_LanderA> yeah
[23:22] <Lunar_LanderA> does dl-fldigi for ubuntu run on 64bit?
[23:22] <Lunar_LanderA> I hope so
[23:23] VK4HIA (3ce452ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.228.82.236) joined #highaltitude.
[23:24] <VK4HIA> Good Morning All, Can someone help get my flight approved?
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[23:34] <Upu> whats the flight doc VK4HIA ?
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[23:35] <Upu> faaff226bae495ba4f27e70489a98ddf ?
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[23:37] <Willdude123> So is it just me or do all M6s get called the M6?
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[23:37] <mfa298> Willdude123: there's a group of Full holders that tend to look down at anyone lower than themselves.
[23:38] <Willdude123> I think the intertubes are broken
[23:38] <Willdude123> mfa298 he was being perfectly friendly
[23:38] <mfa298> It used to be those that only did a ticky box RAE (rather than a written answers version) and/or hadn't done morse code, and now it's foundation holders
[23:39] <Willdude123> I think he probably just wanted to let me introduce myself to the other guy
[23:39] <mfa298> could be,
[23:40] <Willdude123> Gb3fn is quite popular I think and there was someone /m going onto the m25
[23:40] <mfa298> calls will often get shortened or variations used if there's a few people chatting
[23:40] <Willdude123> So pretty good coverage
[23:40] <mfa298> repeaters can get a fair bit of /m usage especially around rush hours
[23:41] <Willdude123> He did say to avoid the rush ohours
[23:42] <x-f> OH7HJ-1, i'm getting a very weak signal from SP3OSJ, not decoding yet, but at least it's still alive
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[23:42] <mfa298> it's a good time to listen out. A lot of 2m FM is local contacts and people use it out /M
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[23:43] <mfa298> either that, or you get late night nets happening.
[23:44] <Willdude123> I hate it when I want to google something and then realise that my internet wont be able to handle hypertext/the web and is struggling with mosh
[23:44] <mfa298> one of the Southampton repeaters used to be good for late night nets (hopefully it will be operational again at some point)
[23:45] <Willdude123> Might be able to work that with a beam
[23:46] <mfa298> you won't be able to work the southampton repeaters at all. They've been off for over a year.
[23:47] <Willdude123> Well if it's operational again
[23:47] <Willdude123> Why?
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[23:47] <mfa298> if you're setting up a beam/yagi for AR use it probably wont be much good for repeaters either. Beams tend to be Horizontal for SSB, FM is generally vertical.
[23:48] <Willdude123> Ah right
[23:48] <mfa298> The site they were on changed ownership so they're having to move.
[23:49] <Willdude123> Was reading up on d star
[23:49] <Willdude123> Interesting how nobody likes it
[23:50] <mfa298> I think that's becuase it's a closed system.
[23:50] <mfa298> Amateur radio is about experimenting.
[23:50] <adamgreig> also because it's modern and uses ideas younger than 1980
[23:51] <fsphil> it's impossible to build a dstar device from scratch
[23:51] <adamgreig> well not really impossible
[23:51] <fsphil> true
[23:51] <fsphil> you'd have to reverse engineer the codec
[23:51] <fsphil> entirely possible
[23:51] <fsphil> been done before
[23:51] <Willdude123> Someone should make an open source codec
[23:51] <fsphil> there are several
[23:52] <fsphil> opus and codec2 are options
[23:52] <Willdude123> Why is it none are popular?
[23:52] <fsphil> they're both fairly new
[23:52] <Willdude123> Well anaalog seems more popular
[23:52] <fsphil> digital voice in general is not too popular anyway
[23:53] <adamgreig> don't get why >_>
[23:53] <adamgreig> should be better
[23:53] <adamgreig> less bandwidth or more quality or both, no frequency uncertainty, etc etc
[23:53] <adamgreig> maybe it's the same reason i listen to vinyl, but like
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[23:53] <Willdude123> Is it a xenophobia of all things digital?
[23:53] <fsphil> not as simple
[23:53] <fsphil> at the moment
[23:53] <adamgreig> suspect it's back to my stereotype of hams being grumpy
[23:54] <Willdude123> Heh
[23:54] <Willdude123> A lot of them go on the you tubes (actual quote) to complain about the hobby
[23:54] <Willdude123> Would it work wrll on hf?
[23:55] <mfa298> on 2M FM voice is popular (at certain times of day) because you just grab a cheap handheld radio and go. If I'm out walking I don't want to take other bits so I can use a digital mode (I'd probably end up bumping into a tree, then find there's no one out there on the digital mode who could get help either)
[23:55] <fsphil> codec2 has been used on HF
[23:55] <mfa298> When you look on HF there's plenty of digital, PSK, Domino, DSSTV etc.
[23:55] <fsphil> that last one sucks (not biased at all)
[23:56] <adamgreig> :P
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[23:57] <fsphil> does though. takes ages for it to syncronise, and only a single glitch or fade to stop it decoding again
[23:57] <fsphil> DRM has the same flat
[23:57] <fsphil> flaw
[23:57] <fsphil> t and w keys are nowhere near eachother. can't blame the keyboard on that one
[23:58] <adamgreig> sounds like rtty
[23:58] <mfa298> I did a bit of easypal style DSSTV on 2m FM a few years ago and even gettign that to work was a pain. I'm not sure i'd like to try it on HF
[23:58] <fsphil> I should try ssdv on HF again. I'd probably find it doesn't work any better :)
[23:59] <Willdude123> There's a sectiom in the book I got for christmas on sstb
[23:59] <Willdude123> fsphil what was the issue?
[23:59] <Willdude123> What datamode did it use?
[00:00] --- Fri Dec 27 2013