[00:00] <fsphil> yay, it's the 25th! happy doctor who day!
[00:00] <Geoff-G8DHE> Happy Xmas and goodnight all!
[00:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Geoff-G8DHE samew to you, gn
[00:01] <OZ1SKY_Brian> same
[00:02] <Lunar_Lander> merry christmas OZ1SKY_Brian
[00:02] <OZ1SKY_Brian> merry xmas lunar
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[00:03] <Geoff-G8DHE> http://360.g8dhe.net/hab_flights/WeatherSondes/index.php?ind=4
[00:03] <gonzo__> ho ho ho
[00:04] <OZ1SKY_Brian> no swearing gonzo :-)
[00:04] <Lunar_Lander> XD!
[00:04] <Lunar_Lander> ah that is nice
[00:04] <Lunar_Lander> 16 GB RAM instead of 2, 6 CPU Cores instead of 2
[00:04] <Lunar_Lander> :)
[00:05] <fsphil> upgrade for christmas?
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[00:10] <bertrik> Geoff-G8DHE: is Herstmonceux a DFM06 or a Vaisala?
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[00:15] <Lunar_Lander> yeah new system that came without HDD
[00:16] <Lunar_Lander> so that you get a upgrade but can keep your drives and just transplant them
[00:16] <fsphil> that doesn't always work
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> yea
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> probably that was working well due to Ubuntu
[00:17] <fsphil> well not so bad on linux
[00:17] <Lunar_Lander> yeah
[00:17] <fsphil> windows would have a panic attack
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[00:20] <OZ1SKY_Brian> camper?
[00:21] <fsphil> lol
[00:21] <fsphil> we'll never know
[00:21] <OZ1SKY_Brian> dr who will clear that up tomorrow
[00:23] <Darkside> hmm
[00:23] <Darkside> i wonder if we'll see mr sweary tomorrow
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[00:25] <fsphil> who?
[00:29] <OZ1SKY_Brian> off to bed, night night
[00:29] OZ1SKY_Brian (~Brian@ left irc: Quit: Please pause the radiowaves !
[00:37] <Lunar_Lander> fsphil, indeed, "a world of new devices but I only got my old drivers on"
[00:37] <Lunar_Lander> XD
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[00:50] <fsphil> win7 hasn't improved in that regard
[00:51] <fsphil> it refused to boot when I simply changed the order of my drives
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[01:13] <Willdude123> fsphil you make it sound as if it was judt like "no I give up, I refuse to boot"
[01:13] <fsphil> basically yea
[01:13] <fsphil> "I can't boot, run the boot recovery"
[01:14] <fsphil> boot recovery: "you swap disk? wtf?"
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[01:14] <fsphil> why are you still awake?
[01:16] Action: SpeedEvil is still awake because of the loud sideways rain.
[01:16] <SpeedEvil> fsphil: Merry Xmas!
[01:16] <fsphil> you too!
[01:17] <fsphil> yea just watching some lighting on the north coast here
[01:17] <fsphil> seems to be fading
[01:26] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[01:28] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[01:28] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[01:30] <nats`> fsphil that's a chance to have see in the horizon :)
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[01:30] <nats`> I spent so many night at watching it
[01:34] <fsphil> yea I think I saw a few flashes. there are mountains between here and there so not ideal
[01:34] <fsphil> not very high mountains to be fair
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[01:39] Nick change: KyleYankan -> Santa
[01:39] Nick change: Santa -> SantaClaus
[01:39] Nick change: SantaClaus -> SantaKlaus
[01:39] Nick change: SantaKlaus -> KyleYankan
[02:20] <MLow> i got a rtl-sdr in the mail today, right before i left for work, plugged it in, opened the sdr software, worked :D, but i had to elave
[02:20] <MLow> leave*
[02:23] <wd8mnv> it'll be waiting when you get back
[02:27] <MLow> not if the cheap china engioneering catches it on fire and burns my house down :O
[02:27] <MLow> engiOneering
[02:28] <MLow> added emphasis to make typo seem on purpose
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[03:15] <ike> LeoBodnar are you sleeping?
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[06:34] <MLow> whoa
[06:34] <MLow> rtl-sdr has like hella shift?
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[07:19] <f5vnf> merry christmas bonne Fete
[07:20] <arko> merry christmas
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[07:31] <wd8mnv> hella shift being ~2.5 mhz window?
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[07:58] <heathkid> Merry Christmas everyone!
[07:59] <heathkid> may all your balloons fly high and land where you predict with data intact!
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[09:12] <VK4HIA> G'day All, Need help getting my GPS to talk to DL-FLDIGI. Can anyone help?
[09:13] <x-f_> that feature is broken for now, if you're using windows
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[09:14] <VK4HIA> OK thanks, So works with OSX
[09:14] <x-f_> should work, yes
[09:14] Nick change: x-f_ -> x-f
[09:14] <VK4HIA> No probs, I'll try it out. Thx again
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[09:25] <number10> I see stratodeans santa video is linked on the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25470809
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[09:43] <nats`> hi
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[10:25] <tweetBot> @thecraag: Wishing you all much joy and habbiness this Christmas-time! #ukhas
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[10:54] <Willdude123> Upu you're probably not around but I'm having an issue with the FCD. I have to hold it in the USB port for it to work
[10:54] <OZ1SKY_Brian> hi
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[11:21] <wd8mnv> it's loose in the socket?
[11:23] <Willdude123> Perhaps. I can hear myself on the web sdr
[11:23] <Willdude123> But not loudly
[11:23] <Willdude123> Not sure I will get GB3ET
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[11:24] <mfa298> if you can get to the websdr you ought to manage ET, seeing as their on the same pole and ET is probably higher up the pole and has a better receiver
[11:26] <Willdude123> I can hear myself very faintly
[11:26] <Willdude123> Not on ET, on simplex
[11:26] <Willdude123> But I can't hear anything on ET
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[11:26] <Willdude123> Not hearing the ident or anything]
[11:27] <Willdude123> Couldn]'t even pick myself up when trying ET
[11:29] <wd8mnv> if you have more than the one port, try changing it to another port
[11:32] <Willdude123> What do you mean?
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[11:33] <wd8mnv> like on a hub or whatever... sounds like a mechnical problem?
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[11:53] <mfa298> Willdude123: the things to check are have you got the right offset set and turned on for using the repeater, and do you have the right cctss tone set for tx.
[11:53] <mfa298> it's also worth checking that you can hear the repeater before transmitting.
[11:53] <Willdude123> I cant
[11:54] <Willdude123> I have ctcss set for rx and tx
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[11:54] <Willdude123> That ok?
[11:54] <mfa298> should be, although when testing I'd be tempted to only turn it on for tx
[11:55] <mfa298> some repeaters only send the cctss tone when transmitting voice, not when sending the ident.
[11:56] <mfa298> unfortunately it looks like the input for ET is off the end of the websdr coverage so you cant listen on the input frequency
[11:59] <Willdude123> Ah
[12:00] <Willdude123> What's the frequency input for GB3ET?
[12:00] <mfa298> http://www.ukrepeater.net/my_repeater.php?id=782
[12:00] <Willdude123> Should be 432.725
[12:00] <Willdude123> Ah
[12:00] <mfa298> 434.9250
[12:01] <Willdude123> It's a plus shift then is it?
[12:01] <mfa298> yep
[12:01] <Willdude123> http://iarl.org/relay/gb3et/
[12:01] <Willdude123> Said minux
[12:01] <mfa298> I think 70cms is always +ve shift but there are two different shifts (1.6MHz and 7.? MHz), 2m is always -600khz in uk
[12:02] <Willdude123> That still doesn't make sense though
[12:02] <Willdude123> That I can't hear the ident
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[12:02] <mfa298> it's possible it's been turned off
[12:04] <Willdude123> It's identing though
[12:04] <Willdude123> On the SDR
[12:04] <mfa298> I just saw it on the websdr.
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[12:04] <Willdude123> Saw what?
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[12:05] <mfa298> it ident
[12:05] Nick change: cuddykid_ -> cuddykid
[12:05] <mfa298> at least I assume that was ET ident
[12:06] <mfa298> you said you could hear it when you tried simplex
[12:07] <Willdude123> Faintly I could hear my own signal
[12:08] <Willdude123> I am indoors though
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[12:09] <mfa298> outside or upstairs window on the nearerst side of your house should give the best signal
[12:13] <mfa298> did you just try transmitting ?
[12:26] <sp5nvx> Hi, new flight 29 12 2013 - faaff226bae495ba4f27e70489c9279a
[12:27] <sp5nvx> Please add doc: {"type":"flight","approved":false,"name":"SP5NVX","start":"2013-12-28T00:00:00+00:00","end":"2013-12-30T23:59:59+00:00","launch":{"time":"2013-12-29T11:00:00+00:00","timezone":"Europe/London","location":{"latitude":52.2848,"longitude":21.0505,"altitude":60}},"metadata":{"location":"Warsaw","project":"473.675"},"payloads":["cd6352d69be84d547d4d2a72b5416193"]}
[12:27] <sp5nvx> 73, Tom: sp5nvx[at]wp.pl
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[12:30] <Willdude123> mfa298: success!
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[12:42] <chrisstubbs> Merry christmas all!
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[12:58] <mfa298> well done, what was wrong
[12:58] <Willdude123> Narrow FM
[12:58] <Willdude123> I needed to set it to narrow
[12:59] <Willdude123> Probably won't bother messing about with repeaters until I get the programming cable
[12:59] <mfa298> ah. yes most ar stuff us narrow thesr days.
[12:59] <Willdude123> Because they are a bit difficult to set up
[12:59] <Willdude123> Overall a nice piece of kit
[13:00] <Willdude123> Also got a computing in amateur radio book
[13:00] <mfa298> once youve got the settings right its just a case of changing freq and possinly tone/shift
[13:01] <Willdude123> Be nice to take it on trips
[13:01] <Willdude123> Like when/if I go to new york with school
[13:01] <Willdude123> Apparently their repeater culture is a lot different
[13:01] <Willdude123> I heard some people swearing on a US repeater
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[13:17] <fsphil> youtube is quite slow today. wonder how many thousands of new devices are accessing it
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[13:29] <Solarballoonman> Hi, just want to say Happy Christmas to all HABer's.
[13:29] <Solarballoonman> Also how do you get the predictor on Spacenear?
[13:35] SP9UOB-Tom (~verox@matrix.verox.pl) joined #highaltitude.
[13:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> afternoon all
[13:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: im planning to send a PICO to You :-)
[13:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: http://predict.habhub.org/#!/uuid=3122283098a403a95ddf5d7bcfb5a6f590d615f7
[13:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> hello
[13:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> anyone here :) ?
[13:39] <fsphil> Solarballoonman: it's automatic
[13:39] <DL7AD> good afternoon
[13:40] <SP9UOB-Tom> please approve: faaff226bae495ba4f27e7048997cf58
[13:40] <DL7AD> oh.... a xmas balloon :D
[13:40] <Solarballoonman> Ok, so you just type predict or what?
[13:41] <Solarballoonman> New to getting predictions. :P
[13:41] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: yeah !
[13:42] <DL7AD> SP9UOB-Tom: did you celebrate xmas yesterday or today?
[13:42] <fsphil> Solarballoonman: ah, thought you meant live predictions. http://predict.habhub.org/
[13:43] <fsphil> for future predictions
[13:43] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: today and tommorow
[13:43] <fsphil> up to a week ahead. getting more inaccurate the further into the future it is
[13:44] <DL7AD> when are you going to launch SP9UOB-Tom?
[13:44] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: in hour maybe - im waiting for flight doc approval
[13:48] <Solarballoonman> thanks.
[13:53] <SP9UOB-Tom> ping UPU
[13:57] <DL7AD> does anyone know if there is already a library for the ublox module communicate by i2c?
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[13:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> DL7AD: im doing it without any library :-)
[13:58] <SP9UOB-Tom> ok, im going to the launch site
[13:58] <fsphil> i2c comms is very much like using the uart iircd
[13:58] <fsphil> -d
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[14:02] <Solarballoonman> *SP9UOB-TOM * Got spacenear up. Will await the launch, then watch the flight for a while.
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[14:12] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[14:12] <tweetBot> @Project_HAB: Wishing all my HABing friends a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS! #HAB #hamr #ukhas
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[14:48] <Solarballoonman> *SP9UOB-Tom* launched yet?
[14:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> Yes :-)
[14:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://aprs.fi/#!call=a%2FSP9UOB-10&timerange=3600&tail=3600
[14:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> and spacenear
[14:49] <Upu> who doth interrupt my lunch ?
[14:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> upu Me - sorry :-)
[14:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu pls approve asap :-)
[14:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> faaff226bae495ba4f27e7048997cf58
[14:50] <Upu> no such doc
[14:50] <Upu> approved the one that was there
[14:50] <Upu> sorry afk
[14:50] <SP9UOB-Tom> oops not this one
[14:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> ohh, sorry for the mess, i have to make new one.
[14:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> there is actually 144.110 MHz
[14:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu, thanks, enjoy your lunch :-)
[14:54] <Solarballoonman> Must be windy, where you launched Tom. Track is going up and down.
[14:56] <SP9UOB-Tom> yes, i was hit tree :-)
[14:57] <Solarballoonman> lucky it didn't burst. Would have been a very short flight.
[15:09] <Solarballoonman> Well it's shifting. 92km/hr !!
[15:12] <Solarballoonman> Tom- planing to chase it? Or is it a 'fly and forget' i.e. you launch it, and just follow the track on a tracker. Not bothering about getting it back.
[15:15] <x-f> SP9UOB-Tom, oh hey, awesome, good luck, i hope it will make this far
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[15:20] <Solarballoonman> *<x-f>* Not sure if it's just gone out of tracking, had a problem or landed, but it's not had any new positions for a few mins. Last shown as a rate of -18.3 m/s. Probably in a downdraught.
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[15:22] <ike> I'm looking for regulars
[15:23] <ike> Upu, LeoBodnar and some other guy
[15:23] <ike> are you there?
[15:24] <number10> I think the other guy is eating dinner
[15:25] <ike> he was something like lunarlander
[15:25] <ike> or what whas it
[15:25] <ike> I found some add on the internet
[15:26] <ike> and I wonder if they are true
[15:26] <Willdude123> How odd
[15:27] <Willdude123> I can't for the life of me figure out how to fit this handstrap
[15:27] <chrisstubbs> Tried putting your hand through it? ;)
[15:27] <Solarballoonman> :P
[15:27] <chrisstubbs> Pleased with the new toy then Willdude123?
[15:28] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs: yes
[15:28] <Willdude123> But this handstrap
[15:28] <Willdude123> Urgh
[15:29] <x-f> Solarballoonman, apparently this pico has some GPS problems, but according to the pressure altitude, it is still going up - http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/faaff226bae495ba4f27e70489cea626#g/altitude,pressure_altitude (tick "live" checkbox)
[15:29] <chrisstubbs> Lol, why is it always the simple things
[15:29] <Willdude123> chrisstubbs: it took me a while to get this far
[15:29] <Willdude123> If you listen on the websdr you can actually hear me when I use GB3ET
[15:29] <chrisstubbs> I still cant get my 817 to work with our repeater :P
[15:29] <chrisstubbs> cool :)
[15:30] <Willdude123> But this handstrap argh
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[15:31] <ike> Willdude123 put smaller wire into the hole
[15:31] <ike> put bigger wire into the smaller wire
[15:31] <ike> and that's it
[15:33] <Willdude123> Which hole?
[15:33] <ike> back one
[15:33] <Solarballoonman> *x-f* looks like that's the only thing working on it. Not good if he was going to recover it. :(
[15:37] <x-f> i'm pretty sure it wasn't meant to be recovered, it's a pico-class balloon and payload :)
[15:39] <Solarballoonman> ok. Btw, what's the average weight of a pico payload?
[15:39] <x-f> 10-40 grams
[15:39] <Solarballoonman> looking at the posability of flying one on a solar balloon next year.
[15:40] <x-f> i have the same intention
[15:41] <ike> Solarballoonman solar balloon or Solar sail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail
[15:41] <Willdude123> Got it
[15:41] <Willdude123> It was meant to go on the belt clip
[15:42] <Solarballoonman> *x-f* I Will be able to make a balloon to lift that sort of weight.
[15:44] <x-f> cool, i figure it is best to launch it in winter - bigger temperature difference, more lift
[15:44] <fsphil> what did you get Willdude123?
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[15:48] <Solarballoonman> yes but not so much daytime.
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[15:50] <x-f> true, sun is very low and mostly behind the clouds
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[15:54] <SpeedEvil> Sun is a lie!
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> (actually, it was quite sunny today)
[15:54] <SpeedEvil> (Scotland)
[15:55] <SpeedEvil> On balance, I much prefer 7Cish and sunny, than -15C and fucking freezing with me having to move lots of snow of three (?) years ago.
[15:57] <Solarballoonman> Have accidently launched a 10X20ft solar tube. Couple of years ago. Testing for lift, didn't tie it to the ground anchor right. Whoops.
[15:58] <Solarballoonman> Made from 18 wheelie bin liners, and 2 10X10 clear plastic 'paint protection' sheets.
[15:58] <SpeedEvil> :)
[16:04] <Willdude123> Can anyone local tune into GB3SN to see if they can hear me?
[16:04] <Solarballoonman> Balloon is still going higher.
[16:08] <x-f> it has two listeners - SP9UOB and SQ6IYD
[16:10] <Solarballoonman> *x-f* Winter is good, for solarballoons was about 18C in the greenhouse early today.
[16:10] <Solarballoonman> not sure what it was outside, not much though.
[16:11] <x-f> i built one a couple years ago, it easily lifted my ~700g camera
[16:11] <x-f> it was around -15C that day though
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[16:13] <Solarballoonman> ok. Ever thought of 'boosting' one on a cold day. Filling it by putting a fan heater in the opening. I've done that with a small 5 bag one.
[16:15] <Solarballoonman> Climbed fast, then leveled out for a bit. Before climbing again. Must have lost the 'boost' but had enough heat to keep it flying, while it heated up again.
[16:22] <Solarballoonman> Pressure alt of the balloon has just passed 4872.
[16:22] <bertrik> Solarballoonman: where is it, can I receive it by radio?
[16:23] <Solarballoonman> Off course that's not it's real alt.
[16:23] <x-f> GPS works again
[16:24] <x-f> bertrik, SP9UOB in Poland
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[16:25] <x-f> APRS isn't updating however
[16:28] <x-f> it does now
[16:29] <x-f> "all systems nominal" (tm)
[16:29] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: cutting off gps supply isnt very good idea :-(
[16:32] <Solarballoonman> Tom: True
[16:34] <x-f> SP9UOB-Tom, have you considered using a backup battery for the GPS? two more grams, but wouldn't that make life a lot easier in such cases?
[16:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: backup power line is permamently powered from main power bus
[16:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: gps backup powe i mean
[16:36] <SP9UOB-Tom> power
[16:36] <x-f> hmm
[16:36] <Solarballoonman> Dodgy connection?
[16:40] <Solarballoonman> Time for tea. Back later, probably after Dr Who.
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[17:04] <Willdude123> I'm a bit bored of VHF and UHF already
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[17:09] <mfa298> FM vhf and UHF can be fairly limited in what you find.
[17:09] <mfa298> you could try aprs and see what the radio picks up.
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[17:29] <Willdude123> mfa298: where might I find APRS?
[17:34] <mfa298> on the radio it's at 144.800, you'll then need to find suitable software (mixw or agwpe for the soft tnc and ui-view or aprsis32 to decode and display the packets)
[17:34] <mfa298> there's also aprs from the ISS which you might hear during a good pass (145.800 or 145.825 I think)
[17:38] <Willdude123> Christmas day. Half my family are asleep and the rest of them are solivng jigsaw puzzles.
[17:38] <Willdude123> Nothing on TV
[17:39] <fsphil> .825 for the iss
[17:40] <fsphil> or someone talking on .800 if you're lucky
[17:40] <fsphil> they don't seem to do that much anymore
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[17:45] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[17:49] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: is it possible to make altitude and pressure_altitude to be on one y axis on the graph? (both in meters ofcoz ;-))
[17:50] <x-f> SP9UOB-Tom, uncheck "display on separate Y axes" checkbox
[17:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> wow thanks :-)
[17:51] <x-f> you're welcome :)
[17:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[17:51] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: have Your radio prepared :-)
[17:52] <Willdude123> Not heard any APRS yet
[17:54] <x-f> SP9UOB-Tom, yeah.. i'm kind of ready, but not expecting much on 2m, i am more prepared for 70cm, but i have posted a message on the local ham-related forum
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[18:10] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: 144.110 USB
[18:10] <x-f> yep, i mentioned RSID as well
[18:11] <sp5nvx> Hi, is my launch : 2013-12-29 11:00:00 ok?
[18:11] <x-f> (i'm keeping an eye on your forum)
[18:11] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: :-)
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[18:11] <sp5nvx> GE Tom
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[18:12] <SP9UOB-Tom> x-f: RSID is working flawessly, but i forgot to disable GPS frequency lock :-)
[18:12] <es5nhc> Ehh... SP9UOB - you already launched?? Or is this a test flight?
[18:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> es5nhc: software testing
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[18:13] <SP9UOB-Tom> sp5nvx: hello :-)
[18:14] <sp5nvx> Hello, can I ask you?
[18:14] <SP9UOB-Tom> sp5nvx: prv msg
[18:15] <x-f> es5nhc, prediction for this pico - http://i.imgur.com/uegFVVK.gif
[18:15] <sp5nvx> ok Tom via email
[18:16] <es5nhc> TNX... I'll keep ears open
[18:16] <es5nhc> What's the QRG's?
[18:16] <x-f> 144.110 USB
[18:30] <es5nhc> And it is RTTY or what?
[18:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> 50 mW APRS is performing very well :-)
[18:30] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> es5nhc: dominoex22
[18:30] <SP9UOB-Tom> http://aprs.fi/#!mt=roadmap&z=8&call=a%2FSP9UOB-10&timerange=21600&tail=21600
[18:31] <es5nhc> OK... and does it transmit packets that dl-fldigi will understand?
[18:31] <SP9UOB-Tom> es5nhc: yes
[18:32] <es5nhc> ok...
[18:33] <LeoBodnar> Hey Tom, latest count 987 packets decoded
[18:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: great :-)
[18:34] <LeoBodnar> I think I can look at your code now :)
[18:34] <LeoBodnar> Has the other guy did more on the ARM?
[18:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: no
[18:34] <LeoBodnar> cool
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[18:34] <SP9UOB-Tom> that was less than 970
[18:35] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: so Yo're decoded all packets :)
[18:35] <LeoBodnar> Howmany are there? I ave alook at the ones not decodedand there were some partials with ends cut off
[18:36] <LeoBodnar> silly keyboard here
[18:36] <jedas> i see it's going to kaunas, hopefully i'll get something
[18:37] <SP9UOB-Tom> LeoBodnar: i was emailed the autor of track - but he didnt reply
[18:38] <Laurenceb_> hi all, happy christmas
[18:40] <LeoBodnar> yo yo yo
[18:40] <LeoBodnar> reciprocal greetings
[18:40] Action: Laurenceb_ has been doing silly things in asm... http://pastie.org/8575657
[18:40] <Laurenceb_> how are you getting all that telemetry via APRS?
[18:41] <LeoBodnar> what's thjs off?! "takes raw IQIQIQIQ single bit data"
[18:41] <Laurenceb_> a frontend ic
[18:42] <LeoBodnar> GPS?
[18:42] <Laurenceb_> its ended up shorter and faster than i expected, thumb2 is powerful
[18:42] <Laurenceb_> yes
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: :)
[18:42] <Laurenceb_> stm32f40x SDR gps
[18:42] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: That's almost comedically short.
[18:43] <LeoBodnar> encoded in the comment field Laurenceb_
[18:43] <LeoBodnar> plus data definitions to define scaling and names
[18:44] <Laurenceb_> theres tons of data
[18:44] <Laurenceb_> ah - so its not sending all that as ASCII?
[18:44] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: it needs a 64kB lookup table living in sram
[18:44] <Laurenceb_> but thats easy on F4
[18:44] <LeoBodnar> no, if you look at raw pakets everything between "|"s is compressed telemetry
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> thats very cool
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> 91base encoded
[18:45] <Laurenceb_> how does APRS know the format?
[18:45] <LeoBodnar> I amusing this too
[18:45] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Is that per channel?
[18:46] <Laurenceb_> no, 2kB per channel
[18:46] <Laurenceb_> so for 32 possible sats its 64kB
[18:46] <SpeedEvil> Ah.
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> then there is 36kB of intermediate buffers, and 4kB of DMA from the front end
[18:47] <Willdude123> I've had a day of VHF/UHF and I'm already bored
[18:47] <SpeedEvil> I guess if you have even a shitty clock, you'll never hit 32 sats really.
[18:47] <Laurenceb_> front end -> dma -> buffer -> preprocessor -> intermediate buffers -> correlator channels
[18:47] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: sample is here http://www.aprs.net/vm/DOS/TELEMTRY.HTM
[18:48] <Laurenceb_> the preprocessor asm code precomputes various bit offsets and loads into dedicated intermedicate buffers
[18:48] Nick change: KipK_away -> KipK
[18:48] <SP9UOB-Tom> according to : http://x-f.lv/dev/habitat-graphs/payload/faaff226bae495ba4f27e70489cea626#g/pressure_altitude balloon is leaking
[18:48] Nick change: KipK -> KipK_away
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> then each channel does eor with prn lookup and countones, followed by I and Q integration into fixed point 16bit complex format
[18:49] <Laurenceb_> and doppler rotation using some of the dsp instructions for complex multiply
[18:51] <SpeedEvil> :)
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> libswiftnav looks useful
[18:51] <Laurenceb_> prob possible to reuse for all the "c land" code
[18:52] <SpeedEvil> Is that the trilateration and nav message decoding stuff?
[18:52] <SP9UOB-Tom> :-)
[18:53] <SpeedEvil> Also - do you happen to know if it's designed that all sats broadcast their nav messages in sync - for example starting at the top of the hour - or are they skewed over the seconds?
[18:55] <SpeedEvil> - I'm wondering about using easily predictable nav message times to get faster locks.
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> i dont know about that
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> libswiftnav is ephemeris decoding, tracking loops, position solve and stuff
[18:56] <Laurenceb_> looks like swift nav uses FPGA for aquisition
[18:57] <Laurenceb_> rather than FFT on the stm32, interesting
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> Laurenceb_: make a slim lean GPS and make us all happy
[18:57] <LeoBodnar> UBLOXes are braindead
[18:58] <Laurenceb_> http://store.swift-nav.com/
[18:59] <eroomde> you have zero chance without asic
[18:59] <eroomde> it's almost 100% a function of correlators
[18:59] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: what?
[19:00] <eroomde> to make something competitive with the ublox from a power POV
[19:00] <eroomde> making a gps receiver is easy
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> FFT for acquisition does seem to work.
[19:00] <eroomde> making a pico-friendly one is hard
[19:00] <SpeedEvil> You need lots of correlators only if you need 'flash' positions - and can't do anything clever.
[19:01] <eroomde> you need to do correlations regardless
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> i wasnt trying for power
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> just for fun :D
[19:01] <eroomde> sure
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> but on the other hand...
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> FFT for pico maybe sane
[19:01] <eroomde> putting it entirely on an F4 would be some nice hacking
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
[19:01] <eroomde> but it's not going to be in the same universe as a ublox from a power consumption PoV
[19:01] <Laurenceb_> thats the idea :P
[19:01] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: And the amount of FFT you need may be sharply reducable.
[19:02] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: I dunno.
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> imo the important thing is you only need a few ms of frontend time
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> front end and lna is quite power hungry
[19:02] <eroomde> SpeedEvil: I do know
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> then turn off and fft with simd instructions
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> this would get you ~300m position for pico
[19:02] <Laurenceb_> very quickly
[19:03] <eroomde> yeah, if you drop requirement son accuracy/update rate then things change
[19:03] <eroomde> with a decent clock you could just grab a few ms of data at a time and proces sit at your leisure
[19:04] <eroomde> once you have ephemeri
[19:04] <eroomde> s
[19:04] <SpeedEvil> yeah - I wasn't saying ou can perform as well as ublox. Just you may be able to beat it in wierd situations.
[19:04] <eroomde> maybe
[19:04] <eroomde> but equally if you just hot-retsart a ublox once a minute you'd probably beat that too
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> yes I meant task specific design not catch-all like UBLOX that is just trying to do too much and is buggy like hell
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> Performing well in deep multipath is a rather different situation from most HAB.
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Plus.
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> you get mad altitude and position jumps with no detectable accuracy degradation eroomde
[19:05] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Free bistatic radar altimeter.
[19:05] <LeoBodnar> proved by many
[19:06] <LeoBodnar> one is flying now
[19:06] <SP9UOB-Tom> eroomde: like this: http://spacenear.us/tracker/?filter=sp9uob
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> annoyingly i left my arm kit at work
[19:06] <Laurenceb_> grr
[19:07] <LeoBodnar> it also eats few minutes worth ofpowersaving energy when it "hot-starts"
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Plus, there is possible stupid stuff.
[19:08] <eroomde> that is quite noisy
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> it's horrible
[19:08] <eroomde> but i'm not sure you'd get much better
[19:08] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Grab 10ms of samples every 5 min, and don't bother computing the positions till sunlight.
[19:08] <eroomde> without an asic doing the correlation
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> it's junk
[19:08] <eroomde> better position/joule
[19:08] <LeoBodnar> cold-start will do better
[19:08] <eroomde> maybe just stay with ublox6 :)
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> are there still firmware updates for ublox?
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: You know where he's going with this, don't you.
[19:09] <Laurenceb_> i remember updating my ublox5
[19:09] <eroomde> no
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> eroomde: He's worried about not being able to source inexpensive lightweight unlimited GPS for his rockets.
[19:09] <eroomde> who?
[19:09] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_:
[19:09] <eroomde> he doesn't do rockets
[19:10] <eroomde> but if he did, yes this would be useful
[19:10] Action: SpeedEvil points to the above discussion about solar-thermal and other silliness.
[19:10] <eroomde> right am gonna rejoin celebrations
[19:10] <Laurenceb_> i dont actually build rockets :P
[19:11] <eroomde> was online to tell amazon that my brand new kindle paperlight is a paperweight
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> maybe someday...
[19:11] <eroomde> and that they should send me one that works
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> haha
[19:11] <eroomde> they eventually agree
[19:11] <Laurenceb_> its dead on arrival?
[19:11] <eroomde> it won't register
[19:11] <eroomde> or factory reset
[19:11] <eroomde> it basically crashes whatever you do
[19:12] <eroomde> gave it 30 mins, got annoyed, talked to them online, a new one is coming
[19:12] <LeoBodnar> ublox6 is just as bad
[19:12] <eroomde> and they've sent me a shipping label to return the current one FoC (which is nice)
[19:12] <fsphil> wish more places did that
[19:12] <eroomde> well, gps position estimation is hard
[19:12] <eroomde> especially if you use PLLs
[19:12] <Laurenceb_> LeoBodnar: do ublox still do firmware updates?
[19:12] <fsphil> I do hate amazons website but their support is pretty good
[19:13] <eroomde> yeah, wasn't too bad
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: did you get your gps system running?
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> afaik MAXes are not flahseable
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> ah yeah i remeber
[19:13] <eroomde> Laurenceb_: yes, though not used it in highly-dynamic anger yet
[19:13] <LeoBodnar> LEAs are
[19:13] <eroomde> hopefully a trip to black rock in 2014
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> eroomde: FPGA based?
[19:13] <Laurenceb_> spartan?
[19:13] <eroomde> core i7 on PC104 :)
[19:14] <eroomde> the black rock thing will jsut be a logger
[19:14] <eroomde> and some kinda reconstruction offline afterwards
[19:14] <eroomde> Kalman/MCMC/something
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> ah heh
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[19:14] <eroomde> the stuff i'm really interested in (inertial fusion) is very computation heavy to do well online
[19:14] <Laurenceb_> custom code or using libswiftnav or something?
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> or numpy?
[19:15] <eroomde> though the Zync parts from Xilinx looks quite sexy
[19:15] <eroomde> not using libswiftnav at all
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> ok
[19:15] <eroomde> PLLs are shit
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> i was pondering using it for stm32F4
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> whats the alternative?
[19:15] <Laurenceb_> to pll
[19:15] <eroomde> it's in numpy at the moment nominally
[19:16] <eroomde> but it's actually mostly just a python module written in C++
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> i see
[19:16] <eroomde> anything invented since mary gave birth to jesus is an alternative to PLLs
[19:16] <eroomde> it's just a tracking problem
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> heh
[19:16] <eroomde> there are a million-and-one much better things
[19:16] <eroomde> kalman filters, for example
[19:16] <Laurenceb_> but you need your correlators to be in the right place?
[19:17] <eroomde> yes
[19:17] <Laurenceb_> would that be stable? most people decouple the kalman
[19:17] <eroomde> i'm not most people
[19:17] <Laurenceb_> i thought that was due to stability issues
[19:17] <Laurenceb_> lol
[19:17] <eroomde> currently it's vector kalman
[19:17] <eroomde> so you estimate when you're expecting to see the signal from all the sats
[19:17] <eroomde> then measure it
[19:17] <eroomde> then update
[19:17] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> thats a different way to look at the problem
[19:18] <eroomde> it estimates where in phase/freq it expects to see all the visible birds based on where it's seen all the other ones
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> yeah
[19:18] <eroomde> you first need a rough position fix for this to work obv
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> sure
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> well... first job is still to produce a working correlator
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> so my asm madness is not in vain :D
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[19:18] <eroomde> a nice thing about this is it massively reduces the windows you're looking at, which improves immunity to nose/jamming a lot
[19:18] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:19] <eroomde> so that's how it works now
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> cool
[19:19] <eroomde> and the performance was 1-2 orders of mag better (RMS-wise) than PLLs
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> O_o
[19:19] <SpeedEvil> Interesting.
[19:19] <eroomde> like, 1000 fixes/sec with a potion rms noise of about 3m per fix
[19:19] <eroomde> rather than averaged over a second
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> were you using an IMU as well?
[19:19] <eroomde> nope
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> madness
[19:19] <Laurenceb_> very interesting stuff
[19:20] <eroomde> did I mention PLLs suck?
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> hehe
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> hmm
[19:20] <fsphil> how much do they suck?
[19:20] <Laurenceb_> wish i had more time to work on cool stuff
[19:20] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Do you happen to recall how far down the reflected GPS was in signal from the normal? For radar altimetry?
[19:20] <eroomde> ignore the wishes of your employer
[19:20] <eroomde> it's the future
[19:21] <eroomde> right i really need to get back to family stuff
[19:21] <eroomde> kalman filters
[19:21] <eroomde> they;re the future
[19:21] <eroomde> I've tasted them
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> i have to find time for final draft of thesis too :S
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> cya
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:21] <Laurenceb_> SpeedEvil: depends on the area and integration time
[19:21] <SpeedEvil> Is it utterly insane to consider for a HAB GPS?
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> i dont think so
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> people have done sea surface monitoring like that
[19:22] <Laurenceb_> for storm warnings
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking of a GPS band synthetic aperture radiometer
[19:24] <Laurenceb_> for scanning into buildings and seeing people minority report style
[19:25] <SpeedEvil> :)
[19:27] <Laurenceb_> im not sure how feasible it is
[19:27] <Laurenceb_> not exactly simple to achieve
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> I guess a useful starting point might be to take a whole days samples from a prompt and a dish pointed at a building - and then see how the correlations work as the sats move.
[19:27] <SpeedEvil> Very much a 'big data' problem.
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> i was thinking of radiometry
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> https://twitter.com/DEVOPS_BORAT/status/299176203691098112
[19:28] <Laurenceb_> so you using gps as its a clean band
[19:28] <SpeedEvil> Oh
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> you mean ignoring the GPS?
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> Just treating it as a thermal source?
[19:29] <SpeedEvil> I guess that's interesting too
[19:29] <Laurenceb_> yes
[19:29] <Laurenceb_> each person is a noise source at > background level
[19:29] <LeoBodnar> Boratuino
[19:30] <SpeedEvil> I suppose in principle similar bit averaging approaches as you'd use for GPS do work.
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[19:30] <Laurenceb_> resolution is limited by the bandwidth
[19:31] <Laurenceb_> but you can use radon transform techniques
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> I was assuming something like: Take a days data from the building with a dish pointed at it. This lets you map the building, and estimate the internal reflections. Use this data to work out where reflections are coming from.
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> Over shorter term from moving objects.
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> Signal levels may make this impractical.
[19:34] <SpeedEvil> Of course, nothing stopping you doing thermal from the same data at teh same time.
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[19:43] <jcoxon> Evening
[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Hmm - somethings wrong - I get 'zero' for radience from a 37C body
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[19:44] <SpeedEvil> Orders of magnitude under refelected GPS
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> sounds likely, its quite challenging to achieve
[19:46] <Laurenceb_> in other news, full gps aquisition on stm32f4 using CMSIS FFT libraries should take 5 seconds
[19:47] <Laurenceb_> searching for all satellites and doppler
[19:48] <Laurenceb_> simd is fast
[19:49] <SpeedEvil> Oh - I think I may have had a cm^2/m^2 error
[19:51] <SpeedEvil> https://www.sensiac.org/external/resources/calculators/infrared_radiance_calculator.jsf says from 180000um to 190000um, it's 5*10^-16W/cm^2, or 5*10^-12W/m^2
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> My BOTE says that's slap bang on the same magnitude as GPS per square meter.
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> per sat
[19:52] <SpeedEvil> Neat.
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: What's your estimation if you have say 'reasonable' levels of doppler - say 100m/s and unknown code position?
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> SpeedEvil: total energy or specific spectral range?
[19:53] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Energy in the range of 1800000 to 1900000um - which is about GPS
[19:53] <LeoBodnar> surveilance is boring
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[19:53] <SpeedEvil> Probably too many zeros - I diddn't take care typing.
[19:54] <Laurenceb_> maybe <1second then
[19:54] <LeoBodnar> are you using black body model?
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> And *f4 aren't very energy hungry either.
[19:54] <LeoBodnar> not very PC lol
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: yes.
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: see above website.
[19:54] <SpeedEvil> I'm not up to understanding proper use of plancks law to compute it myself.
[19:54] <Laurenceb_> about 50ma at 1.8v for the core
[19:55] <LeoBodnar> it's probably below an energy of a sinlge photon
[19:55] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: It's way, way over that.
[19:55] <Laurenceb_> if you use your own power supply for the core you can run at <1.6v
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Microwave thermal detection of stuff has been done for ages.
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> I remember a microwave thermometer on Tomorrows worlsd in the 1980s.
[19:56] <SpeedEvil> Also - cosmic microwave background.
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: Still - 120mJ or so to compute a position every 5 min, plus a few microjoules for the clock starts to look pretty good
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> Is it 1/x^4 in Plank's formula?
[19:57] <LeoBodnar> I can't think well - too much wine
[19:57] <SpeedEvil> LeoBodnar: Total emission from a black body is propertional to t^4.
[19:58] <Laurenceb_> not sure how quickly sat doppler changes, prob couple of Hz/second
[19:58] <LeoBodnar> iirc Plank just eyeballed the spectrum and cameup with a good fitting formula
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> Yeah - but a clock to give you several millisecond resolution at 5 min is really, really cheap.
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> i guess yeah
[19:59] <LeoBodnar> *Planck,sorry Max
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> you can do posiiton on the sat
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> and just load some old ephemeris before launch
[19:59] <SpeedEvil> yep.
[19:59] <Laurenceb_> its not going to change too much - itll be good enough to extropolate 5 minutes with
[20:00] <SpeedEvil> Quite.
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[20:00] <Laurenceb_> then its goes down to ~10ms of core runtime
[20:00] <Laurenceb_> 10 4096 point FFTs or so
[20:01] <Laurenceb_> using SIMD 16bit fixed point DSP
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> 30µW for one fix per 5minutes
[20:02] <Laurenceb_> thats nuts
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> and ~37meter rounding error on each fix
[20:03] <SpeedEvil> :)
[20:03] <Laurenceb_> thats like a 10microamp current draw :P
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> theres probably ways to speed it up even more - i was looking at 1bit samples expanded to 16bits
[20:05] <Laurenceb_> if there was a way to do parts of the fft with 2bit or nibbles
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[20:06] <SpeedEvil> I guess you'd want occasional 30s 'proper' 'is my fix total bollocks' fixes.
[20:07] <ike> are they here yet
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[20:17] <ike> LeoBodnar are you here?
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[20:19] <SpeedEvil> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5u-9d9Etxc - sort-of-ontopic-in-bits
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[20:37] <ike> Lunar_Lander maybe you can do me
[20:37] <ike> can you?
[20:38] <Lunar_Lander> what?
[20:38] <ike> yes you will
[20:38] <ike> http://www.hoperf.com/rf/fsk_module/RFM26W.htm
[20:38] <ike> http://www.hoperf.com/rf/fsk_module/RFM24W.htm
[20:38] <ike> are those for real
[20:38] <ike> I mean The RFM24W offers continuous frequency coverage across the entire sub-GHz band from 142–1050 MHz with extremely fine frequency resolution.
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> sorry, give me a few minutes
[20:39] <Lunar_Lander> please
[20:39] <ike> OK ;)
[20:40] <Willdude123> ping craag somethings going wrong with the websdr
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[21:14] <Upu> ping SP9UOB-Tom
[21:14] <Upu> everything ok now ?
[21:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> PONG
[21:15] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: ok, GPS is hanging after power on/off cycle
[21:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> i have to turn it off
[21:16] <Upu> ok
[21:16] <Upu> but payload doc ok ?
[21:16] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: yes (frequency in name is wrong)
[21:17] <Upu> ok
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[21:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> it has stopover in the tree, and propably envelope is leaking
[21:17] <SP9UOB-Tom> it is falling now
[21:18] <Upu> so you're turning GPS off entirely ?
[21:19] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: yes but battery backup is tied to main power buss
[21:19] <Upu> ok
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[21:19] <Upu> so what issues are you having
[21:19] <Upu> interested as I want to try it
[21:20] <Willdude123> Timeline of my day, Get radio - Make radio work - use radio on repeater - find nobody goes on repeaters anymore - get bored
[21:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> upu: altitude and laterar glitches
[21:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> Upu: even when >5 sat
[21:20] <Upu> hmm
[21:20] <SP9UOB-Tom> lateral
[21:20] <Upu> needs more sanity checking
[21:21] <SP9UOB-Tom> and i had 2 about one hour hangs
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[21:22] <Upu> I'll have to test this a lot
[21:24] <ike> Upu are those for real http://www.hoperf.com/rf/fsk_module/RFM26W.htm and http://www.hoperf.com/rf/fsk_module/RFM24W.htm
[21:24] <ike> can you cover 142–1050 with only 1 module?
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[21:26] <Upu> probably
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> ike, sorry, had a talk with my parents
[21:26] <Lunar_Lander> hi mclane , merry christmas
[21:26] <Upu> it will be the SI4464 or something
[21:27] <mclane> hello Lunar_Lander, the same to you and everybody in this channel
[21:28] <ike> Upu I wonder how they make antenna matching for so wide frequency
[21:28] <Upu> haha
[21:28] <Upu> they don't
[21:28] <ike> so this module don't work?
[21:28] <ike> and they lie?
[21:28] <Upu> course it works
[21:29] <Upu> but it wouldn't pass any sort of standards I suspect
[21:29] <ike> but how can you make class E amp if you don't know the frequency?
[21:29] <bertrik> from the RFM24W datasheet: "The frequency resolution in the 8501050 MHz band is 57.22 Hz with more resolutionin the other bands. "
[21:29] <ike> so if this is working
[21:30] <Upu> its basically the new version of the RFM22B
[21:30] <ike> you can make single transmiter for 144.800 APRS for 434 ISM and for 850 ISM
[21:30] <ike> is that right?
[21:30] <Upu> which was drifty and shut down below a certain temp
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[21:30] <ike> you can broadcast on 3 bands
[21:31] <Upu> in theory however most of us have decided to make our own versions with TCXO's
[21:31] <ike> at -40*C I bet that everything is drifting
[21:31] <Upu> nope
[21:31] <Upu> the SI chip at the heart of it is ok
[21:31] <Upu> the crap HopeRF stick round it is the issue
[21:31] <Upu> http://imgur.com/UN76Wms
[21:31] <Upu> note the RF Chip
[21:32] <Upu> the TCXO on that board costs more than that HopeRF module
[21:32] <Willdude123> Are repeaters dead or is there some festival on today?
[21:33] <Upu> if you key up do you get the ident morse Willdude123 ?
[21:33] <ike> Willdude123 maybe there is subtone code
[21:33] <ike> Upu I don't recodnise RF Chip
[21:33] <Upu> Si4060
[21:34] <Willdude123> Yeah
[21:34] <Willdude123> I mean is nobody using them anymore
[21:34] <ike> near gps shouldn't be mounting holes?
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[21:36] <ike> Upu so this chip Si4060 is 20mW
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> ah ike Upu there is a funny way to get wideband antennas
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> use fractals :)
[21:36] <Lunar_Lander> but I think that is mainly done in cell phones
[21:36] <ike> and on your board can it run from 142 to 1050 MHz?
[21:36] <ike> have you tested it?
[21:36] <Willdude123> I decided to be a total badass and get a programming cable that said 32 BIT ONLY !!!!
[21:37] <Upu> ni Ike the low pass filter is for 434Mhz only
[21:38] <OZ1SKY_Brian> 32 bit only cable, cool :-)
[21:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> dont forget the strobe line
[21:39] <SP9UOB-Tom> that'll be 36 wires
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[21:40] <ike> Upu so just for my curiosity. If you leave blue inductor and the white cap near Si4060 chip with no filter will it be decent TX power going ot antenna from 142 to 1050 MHz?
[21:41] <ike> and this board is TX only, right?
[21:41] <OZ1SKY_Brian> SP9UOB-Tom did you launch allread?
[21:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: software testing
[21:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> OZ1SKY_Brian: that was pico
[21:42] <SP9UOB-Tom> im launching latex at saturday
[21:42] <OZ1SKY_Brian> ah ok i see
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[21:47] <Willdude123> SP9UOB-Tom: I decided to live life on the edge
[21:47] <Willdude123> I don't know how I'll make it work
[21:48] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Willdude123 im monitoring 145.675 right now, waiting for your call :-)
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[21:49] <Willdude123> OZ1SKY_Brian: I take it you are in a different country
[21:49] <OZ1SKY_Brian> yeah
[21:50] <Willdude123> Have fun with that
[21:50] <Willdude123> Won't hear me
[21:50] <OZ1SKY_Brian> i know, just joking
[21:50] <Willdude123> Upu just used explosives on a non-explosives BF4 server
[21:51] <Willdude123> Aren't you all dissapointed with him?
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[22:18] <ike> Willdude123 what is non-explosives BF4 server? Some kind of gay server?
[22:22] <SP9UOB-Tom> night all
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[22:25] <OZ1SKY_Brian> Now thats a statement :-)
[22:33] <ike> I get it now. Si4063 are defective Si4463 that don't have working RX
[22:34] <Upu> defective ?
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[22:37] <ike> with defective RX
[22:37] <ike> like intel 486DX and 486SX
[22:37] <Upu> or maybe not there by design ?
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[22:39] <ike> maybe
[22:40] <ike> and btw you have 2 xtal on that small board
[22:40] Action: SpeedEvil passes ike some nitric acid to make sure.
[22:40] <ike> can't you get away with only 1?
[22:41] <ike> nitric acid is not funny
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> ike: To decap chips with.
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[22:41] Action: SpeedEvil has sulphuric and phosphric.
[22:41] <SpeedEvil> I guess I should get some nitric.
[22:41] <Upu> one is for the microcontroller Ike
[22:42] <ike> sometimes it's more cheaper to bild 2 times more of the same chips and cripple them, than to make 2 runs of 2 different chips
[22:43] <ike> some of GPIO pins of si6040 can be used ot clock output
[22:43] <ike> but it didn't work in shutdown
[22:43] <ike> I think
[22:43] <Upu> I've seen people do that with PIC's
[22:43] <Upu> But not with AVR's
[22:44] <ike> AVR have internal RC generator, but I don't know how it behave at -40*C/F
[22:45] <Upu> it will probably be ok
[22:45] <Upu> I tested it and it seemed to be ok
[22:45] <Upu> but I use an external oscillator
[22:45] <ike> -40*C=-40*F coincidence? No, aliens!
[22:45] <Laurenceb_> http://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/precisiondesignshub/archive/2013/09/23/why-should-i-give-a-flux.aspx?hootPostID=fb31987b100c27ac3fd9da0bea1955a9
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[22:47] <ike> Laurenceb_ some time flux can go under the chips and stay there
[22:47] <SpeedEvil> That's why you use no-clean flux
[22:47] <ike> just to eat your head after 1 or 2 years
[22:47] <ike> you have to clean that too
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> However, I'm not sure how much I trust that.
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> My house is often non-heated.
[22:48] <ike> with moisture and high temperature no-clean flux can make wonders
[22:48] <SpeedEvil> I frequently get stuff like meters and thermometers reading completely insanely until I bake them in the oven on a low heat
[22:52] <jcoxon> Don't use the avr internal osc in cold
[22:52] <jcoxon> You'll find the serial speed will drift
[22:52] <Upu> that
[22:52] <jcoxon> And so you won't get gps
[22:55] <ike> Upu I don't see that little board in your shop http://ava.upuaut.net/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=71_63
[22:55] <Upu> its not for sale Ike
[22:55] <Laurenceb_> http://www.insidegnss.com/node/2979
[22:55] <ike> when it will be avaible
[22:55] <Upu> it won't
[22:55] <Upu> Its my personal project
[22:55] <ike> and will it be variant with active antenna
[22:56] <ike> Upu but it look so good
[22:56] <Upu> will never be an active antenna
[22:56] <ike> and it have everything
[22:56] <Upu> is a pico payload
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> On a random point. I'm going to be making assorted random smallish - let's say 4*4cm boards - perhaps 5 different sorts - for PSU debugging purposes.
[22:56] <SpeedEvil> Perhaps I want 10 each of 5 boards.
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> Can anyone recommend an inexpensive vendor - 2 sided - ideally soldermasked, but nothing fancy, no fine geometry
[22:57] <SpeedEvil> Speed isn't an issue
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> seedstudio
[22:57] <Laurenceb_> *+e
[22:57] <Upu> Hackvana
[22:57] <ike> Upu there is a market for small gps units for children, elderly and pets
[22:58] <Upu> I know and its a market well looked after
[22:58] <SpeedEvil> Laurenceb_: thanks.
[22:58] <ike> what do you mean? Is there any similar products?
[22:59] <Upu> lots of pet and old people trackers
[22:59] <ike> SpeedEvil http://imall.iteadstudio.com/open-pcb/pcb-prototyping.html
[22:59] <ike> but are they this small and programmable?
[23:00] <Upu> no idea
[23:00] <Upu> not looked
[23:00] <Laurenceb_> http://www.seeedstudio.com/service/index.php?r=site/pcbService
[23:00] <ike> SpeedEvil: 2Layer Green PCB 10cm x 10cm Max is the cheapest options per board size
[23:00] <SpeedEvil> ike: Thanks everyone - I need to check those links out. On reflection I realise I should go to sleep.
[23:00] <Upu> Hackvana is in #hackvana
[23:00] <Upu> lol
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> ike: Are there any restrictions on DIY panelisation?
[23:01] <ike> IDK
[23:01] <ike> I'v never used
[23:01] <SpeedEvil> k
[23:01] <mattbrejza> seeed is fine with panelisation
[23:01] <ike> but maybe I should try it some day
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> I'm just doing brain-dead stuff like TL494 breakout boards.
[23:02] <SpeedEvil> Isolated driver boards, and such
[23:03] <Upu> Got these done at Hackvana with a stencil x 10 was about £60 delivered
[23:03] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/EQ34bdz.jpg
[23:03] <SpeedEvil> you mean assembled ?
[23:04] <Upu> no
[23:04] <ike> iteadstudio: You will have to cut the boards by yourself if you fabricate a panelized design.
[23:04] <Upu> not assembled
[23:04] <SpeedEvil> ah
[23:04] <Upu> I assembled them :)
[23:04] <Upu> or use mouse bites ike
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[23:05] <ike> I bet that on the otherside there is breakout for atmega328 and Si4060 module ;)
[23:05] <Upu> nope
[23:06] <ike> but, but ... there is so much room on the other side ;)
[23:06] <Upu> thought that was done panelized
[23:06] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/CPSOLLQ.jpg
[23:07] <ike> pAVA is solar maximum power tracking + Lipo charge controller?
[23:08] <Upu> no the tracker board on the right runs at 2Mhz 1.8V
[23:08] <Upu> you can put either a step up
[23:08] <Upu> or solar lipo charger on it
[23:08] <Upu> depending on the application
[23:08] <Upu> http://i.imgur.com/UDxkFe6.jpg
[23:09] <Upu> thats with a step up on it
[23:09] <Upu> right I need to afk dog needs a walk
[23:09] <ike> in the middle of the night?
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[23:09] <ike> Upu 10x for the info and all the pictures
[23:10] <mattbrejza> most of the day is actually night at this time of year anyway
[23:11] <mattbrejza> since its show and tell: http://imgur.com/a/Fgesk
[23:11] <Willdude123> Hello all ye people with reasonable internet
[23:11] <ike> mattbrejza: there is small board
[23:12] <ike> is this step up?
[23:12] <mattbrejza> the tiny board is stepup yea
[23:13] <ike> so if you use 14500 battery you can make it more smaller
[23:14] <mattbrejza> the point of that was that it can fit in the neck of a 100g balloon (14mm diameter)
[23:14] <mattbrejza> so that battery was fine
[23:15] <ike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes#Round_lithium-ion_rechargeable 14500 700-800 14 ? 50 Same size as AA cell.
[23:16] <mattbrejza> yea 1/2AA is nice for its height
[23:16] <mattbrejza> depends what shape you want the tracker
[23:16] <ike> that chip did you use? is it CC430?
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[23:16] <mattbrejza> yea
[23:17] <ike> and you send domino with that
[23:17] <ike> or you use another cc430 as RX
[23:18] <mattbrejza> na its xl pulled rtty
[23:18] <mattbrejza> put a txco then you can domex via crystal pulling
[23:18] <mattbrejza> the pll step is too high for pll domex
[23:19] <ike> soo... cc430 pull it's own xtall to send rtty?
[23:19] <ike> I've never thought of that
[23:20] <mattbrejza> yea its a bit weird but works fine
[23:20] <mattbrejza> after all youre pulling by such small amounts
[23:22] <ike> nice job on this small board
[23:22] <ike> I'm too afraid of smd matching
[23:23] <mattbrejza> you can get a single component match/balun/filter for the cc parts
[23:23] <ike> but CC430 don't go down to 145MHz
[23:24] <Upu> I found an AAAA Lithium
[23:24] <ike> I think it goes only to 240MHz
[23:24] <mattbrejza> ah right, out of luck then
[23:24] <Upu> that board of mine will do APRS and whatever on 70cms
[23:24] <ike> Upu there are rechargable CR2032
[23:24] <Upu> not enough capacity
[23:25] <ike> UpuI know that's why I envy you
[23:25] <mattbrejza> cc1101 is also 12dBm max
[23:25] <Upu> though taking some liberties with the output filtering
[23:26] <mattbrejza> isnt the output match frequency dependent? or are you just taking the performance hit?
[23:26] <Upu> its in the "not ideal but works" category
[23:26] <ike> Upu so basically you have this http://www.ebay.com/itm/KENWOOD-TM-D710GE-75-WATTS-Hi-Power-Version-Built-in-GPS-RECEIVER-APRS-TNC-/171202359395?pt=US_Ham_Radio_Transceivers&hash=item27dc74b063 in your pocket
[23:27] <Upu> err no that probably works reliably
[23:27] <Upu> and that has a little more power than I have
[23:27] <ike> 144.800 * 3 = 434400
[23:27] <Upu> yep
[23:28] <Upu> which is in the amateur bands
[23:28] <ike> like APRS
[23:28] <mattbrejza> seems legit
[23:28] <Upu> anyway
[23:28] <Upu> there are many ways to do this
[23:28] <mattbrejza> what is the power on 434 out of interest?
[23:28] <Upu> 10mW
[23:29] <Upu> with the 4060 anyway
[23:29] <mattbrejza> could be worse
[23:29] <Upu> you can drop something more powerful in
[23:29] <ike> like 4063
[23:29] <Upu> however for UK
[23:29] <Upu> not much point
[23:29] <ike> only 20dBm
[23:30] <ike> UK is small, and then you can have the whole europe
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[23:31] <ike> btw is there an easy way to raise and low balloon
[23:31] <ike> so it can go up and down
[23:32] <ike> looking for a nice winds
[23:32] <Upu> Anyway I'm off see if I can sleep off this too much food night all
[23:32] <ike> to gide it to some location
[23:32] <ike> like a middle of europe
[23:32] <ike> good night Upu
[23:32] <ike> I should goto bed too
[23:33] <x-f> SP9UOB just landed in Lithuania
[23:34] <mattbrejza> night#
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[23:48] <mattbrejza> meh
[23:48] <Lunar_Lander> x-f, cool!
[23:52] <DL7AD___> is it possible to run a atmega with a 32mhz oscillator and divide the clock down internally?
[23:52] Nick change: DL7AD___ -> DL7AD
[23:58] <Willdude123> I've always underestimated how good mosh really is
[23:59] <Willdude123> I can get into my server and use irc to moan about the fact my internet can't load web pages when my internet can't even load web pages
[00:00] --- Thu Dec 26 2013